Planning and Zoning Commission - workshop

HOW DO I DO IT? THE SPEAKER, YES.

DO YOU WANT ME TO GO YELL AT HIM? I AM GOING TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. I MEAN, THIS IS A LITTLE TAPPY. IT'S JUST ONE SENTENCE. HE'S DOWN AT PUBLIC WORKS. YEAH, I GOT YOU.

WELL, REALLY? I THOUGHT SO. YEAH.

I think that's how I set mine.

I don't know if the pollen is outside right now, but I am just filled up.

OK, very good. I'd like to call the meeting to order, announce we do have a quorum. Thank you everybody for being here tonight. The purpose, the Planning and Zoning Commission will conduct a work session to receive information, discuss, and provide feedback to staff. regarding various requests and initiatives previously presented to the Town Council. So this is a work session. It is not open for public hearing. This will be closed to the Planning and Zoning Commission. It is being broadcast and recorded, so I'd ask all of the commissioners, please make sure that you're close to the microphones when you have comment or speak. And number two, the fact that a work session is limited to no more than one hour in duration. So we will adhere to that. And with that, I will turn it over to staff to kick the session off. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, and the Planning and Zoning Department. I'm really excited to talk to you all tonight about the items for this evening's work session. It brings me to step two of the Town Council's work session agenda item in relation to dedicating a park site and naming it within the town. So I want to For a little bit of history for our listeners as well as everyone in the audience, on June 23rd, Town Council held a work session where we discussed what are the steps in terms of designating, rather naming a town park name. or a town facility in order for it to be labeled as recreation. That would formalize a site as a community asset and it would require for the future enhancement of funding access specifically for the Arizona State Parks but in other opportunities as well. So many programs when it comes to grants and funding prioritize dedicated public parks And so what was presented to council was request for direction in regards to processes and timelines on how to go about that process. And it was more specifically looking at town property for where the gym is currently located. And that's right next to the museum, as well as the PD department off of Jackson Lane. So the process that was presented was anywhere from nine to 12 weeks. And it was pretty straightforward. The first step was to review and prep materials. Second was to identify dedicated use for the town gym as a public park via the planning and zoning process. So that brings us here to tonight to review and begin that dedicated process. So in order to dedicate a town property in order to qualify it for grants, We need to be able to align it with the land use within a general plan. And these are underneath the Arizona revised state statutes, Title IX. And underneath the general plan, when it comes to land use, trying to identify where these properties fall in to be able to dedicate them. So staffed on August 6th. was advised at a broader review of all town properties to look at the development and the land use of inventory in order to evaluate current uses, operating costs, and potential future uses. And what we looked at that night was all of our town properties collectively as a whole. So if you look in your planning and zoning packet, you'll see a map of all the town properties. This is presented to staff. It's also in the back of the room. And we took an inventory of what we have here in town. started to really started to really look at what we've got going on and realize that we actually have two properties within town that are already recreation use park use and that would be Woodland Lake Park as well as Mountain Meadow Recreation Park So staff began to look at what are some of the other items that we have in terms of inventory and operating costs and came to the realization that the town also owns a 40 by 60 steel building that has the ability to adapt and permeate and add additions to it later on for future use. So in looking at all these items collectively, council advised staff to consider looking at the properties if we were to have completed the Mountain Meadow Recreation Complex and include pickleball courts there versus if we were to include pickleball courts over at the town gym so that way we could dedicate one or the other as park use. So looking at the general plan, for tonight, that's why we have the summary of it, so that way we can understand that this all falls under what is a general plan, what is the requirement under a general plan, which is the land use, and comparing that with the dedicated use. So tonight, staff is asking for direction in terms of looking at different criteria and elements in order to compare apples to apples, Mountain Meadow Recreation Park, and finishing up the use there, as well as the town gym, location, and finishing up the use at those areas. So any questions so far? I know that was kind of a lot of history over the past 90 days.

So where is this building that can be added onto?

Yeah, it's currently in storage, if I'm correct.

Oh, so it's not assembled.

It's not erected. It's not assembled, right. Yeah, but we own it.

So could this be an indoor cover for a pickleball court?

Yes. So it could. It would be tight for two courts. And we would look at how much it would cost, and that would be a town council item that we would bring to them, and how those adaptations would relate so that way we can get multiple uses out of it. But we currently own the steel building today.

So, Jennifer, I'm more familiar with Woodland Lake Park and Mountain Meadow Park than I am with the area that we're talking about around the town gym. So help me to understand... We have a town gym, and that's enclosed, and that's being utilized today. How much is it adjacent land to the gym are we talking about? How much acreage is there that we're considering? That's my first question, so answer that, and then I've got a follow-on question.

It's 1.5 acres? Okay.

1.5. And it's clear land at this point in time?

Currently, there is one structure on it, and that is the town gym. It was formerly the Blue Ridge Junior High Gym, and it's had multiple different uses ever since it's been retired from the Blue Ridge Unified School District.

Okay.

So a lot of different programs have gone through it. We recently had the Easter egg hunt back in the spring over at that facility. So it's had a lot of different hats that it's worn.

All right. Now... Can I ask my follow-on question is, okay, from that being the central location, take me out to the perimeter and tell me what is adjoining and adjacent to this little over one acre OF PROPERTIES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BY THE TOWN, JIM.

YEAH. SO DO YOU ALL KNOW WHERE THE LAKE SIDE POST OFFICE IS?

YES.

OKAY. SO THAT'S JACKSON LANE. SO IF YOU WERE TO GO DOWN THAT STREET, YOU'LL SEE ON ONE SIDE IS THE ORIGINAL TOWN MARKET, THE LAKE SIDE MARKET, WHICH IS THE CORNER. AND THEN THERE'S APARTMENTS RIGHT BEHIND IT. I THINK IT'S THE APPLE APARTMENTS. APPLE TREE APARTMENTS. APPLE TREE APARTMENTS.

OKAY.

AND THEN ACROSS FROM THE APPLE TREE APARTMENTS, WE'RE JUST KIND OF ZIGZAGGING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE ROAD, IS THE DEPOT COFFEE house shop. I was there this morning. They have great banana cream pie coffee. And then if you continue down, there's actually a church just across the street from the town gym. And if you're coming down that road, in front of the town gym is an open lot area. And that's part of the parcel itself. And that sits right behind the post office. And then behind the gym would be the PD office.

And aren't there some further apartments under consideration for development in some of that area down there, Frank? Was that...

There was talk at one point down to the north of Lakeside Market, the whole Lakeside Market. The rest of that area is residential.

Residential. Okay. Thank you.

Wasn't there originally, Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought there was a club or somebody that wanted to build pickleball courts there already.

That had been discussed. Yeah.

And where does that discussion?

Right now, that has... It's tonight. It's still stagnant. It hasn't proceeded yet.

Okay. And we're talking about there's two pickleball courts in that building? There's three inside. Okay, but are we looking at a gym or are we looking at more pickleball? I'm a little confused as to what... You call it a gym, but it's not really. It's known as the town gym. It is a town gym.

It is a 19th-century gym. It's got basketball courts.

It's being used as that, but that's not really a... Are we talking about putting a real gym in or just expanding the picker or leaving that gym as a gym?

And then there's potential discussions of expanding pickleball to outside, eight additional courts. But that's kind of where, when it comes down to designating a town use, being able to qualify for grants and different things like that would be the funding that would support that initiative.

So in this gym, is the, and I don't know if it's a club or an organization, it doesn't really matter, but the pickleball group, are they the only ones that are utilizing that gym?

For the most part, there are town activities that do occur in there.

Okay.

Occasionally. Okay. Is the gym viable for a meeting place? One of the things we're short on in our town is places such as the community center that's utilized by certain groups.

At some point it is. The problem is there are no restrooms. Correct. There are port-a-johns outside. Okay. All right, so.

We need to do something to the ground around the pickleball courts. I mean, it looks like a field that's been kind of left to its own for a couple of years. So something should happen. I would definitely agree with that.

Some of the issues with that property is there's a large drainage just to the east of the police department that drains that whole lot. So that takes... 50, 75 feet of a straight run.

With the condition of that building, you know, there's rumors that go around. But is it... Is it, for the foreseeable future, a good, is it reliable? Is it going to be there in 30 years?

It's been around for probably almost 100.

I know that.

As somebody who's been in building most of my life, it's about to run out of life.

Okay.

I mean, it's not dangerous. It's old. It's something that you don't want to sink a bunch of money into. Yeah.

Weren't there some issues with the building a number of years ago before Frank and Jennifer and Lisa? But, Christy, weren't there some repairs that had to be done to that building?

Yeah, well, I read a bunch on it today, and there was a storage room that had lockers in the bathrooms that had to be removed because of water damage and mold. And then they mitigated that by not taking care of As far as, we don't know how many years the life has in it. I know that there's been some work done on the roof, and I think that's okay right now.

It did have a basement in it, which is partially filled with dirt. The floor is supported by timbers, which are now buried in dirt. So you can kind of figure where that's going to go.

But the bathrooms right now are a couple of banana johns sitting outside the building.

I just look at it as an asset that maybe doesn't need to be an asset anymore. And if we throw money at it, are we really throwing good money at a bad thing? I mean, I'm sure that the history of it is pretty cool and so on and so forth. My first uncle went there to school and played basketball there. But... If we can do it, should we do it? Or if we should do it, can we do it? So I don't know.

I don't think that's a viable situation long-term-wise. And I'll expand on that. The reason I was asking about to understand what's in proximity, and it sounds like it can classify pretty much as residential that's in proximity there. I can't imagine that that would be a viable location for us to take a look at for building a recreation center where, in fact, there's going to be, and appropriately so, noise and clapping and all sorts of things that happen with sports activities and events, not to mention the fact of pickleball, which in itself You know, pickleball courts, the sound is, I classify it as obnoxious. But, and I've got some history with this. I ran a HOA organization in Chandler, and we had, it was a big unit. Oh, geez, there were probably 500 houses. But it was seven different communities. Each one had a basketball court in the center of the community. And we converted that to pickleball. We had them painted and everything else. And the people came in, played pickleball, had a great time. It's a great sport. But the noise was a factor. After 90 days, we had to shut them down. The community just could not tolerate the noise. And I can't see it as being viable in a location that's surrounded by... RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES.

SO LOOKING AT ITEM NUMBER TWO UNDER SITE SUITABILITY, SO WE JUST DISCUSSED THE 40 BY 60 STRUCTURE AND THEN ALSO THE CURRENT STRUCTURE THAT'S AT THE GYM. SO LOOKING AT APPLES TO APPLES, PARKS FOR PARKS. for a direction when we come back and we actually look at these two a little bit further, we'll, as staff, we'll look at the viability and do an inspection on the town gym so we can better understand what is the lifespan of it, and then looking at the cost of erection for that 40 by 60 steel building. So that way we're looking at both properties when it comes to utilization of an indoor facility. Is that what I'm understanding?

I just, I think the Mountain Meadow facility facility gives much more in the way of long-term viability, you know, back to...

Benefit to the entirety. Yeah. Because of the basketball courts, the softball fields, the soccer fields, the playground, it makes more sense to put a pickleball court there. Yeah. Because it's already very family-oriented.

Well, I was out there last week, and they were playing pickleball. As you come in on the right, there's, I don't know if there are tennis courts or both sides. They were playing pickleball, and I think they were probably meant to be tennis courts, but there was two teams. So that might be a... Yeah.

The one in Woodland Park is a dual-use court.

I have to agree with Jeff on the noise level. Yeah. A lot of screaming, a lot of yelling. We have them up at Pinetop Lakes, and you can hear them. You can hear the folks. I'm having a good time. I mean, no doubt about that. But there is a lot of screaming and yelling.

Frank, is that zone commercial right there, that lot? And have you done an inspection?

Where the gym is? The gym, that area is residential.

And have you done an inspection on the property?

I've looked at the gym somewhat. I'd like to have a structural engineer look at it.

Is it possible to take the structure that we have in storage and erect that over at Mountain Meadows to that front left side to be able to create indoor courts there?

Absolutely. I like the idea of, I don't think the noise is an issue myself. I like to see kids doing stuff. But I do see the point of not having it there by the post office and across from the LDS church. There was some talk a couple of years ago about having a town center or a place for gathering, like a little kind of like a Jack Barker Park, but like more. more accessible. Where can you park when you go to Jack Barker Park? It's hard, right? You park across the street, walk across the street. Whereas if you're over there by the post office, I'm sure that they could put a parking lot there, have a walkabout park. So apples to apples, let's throw, I would say, throw the Parton Pickleball over to Mount Meadows or somewhere over there and have that as like a gathering place or a place where you could have live music on Friday or Saturday night. And thinking about all the people that live around that area, I can't see any one of those guys. complain about pickleball i honestly i just i can't i i know i know most of them but i just don't see them i i know it's a real thing and i've and i've seen stories about it but i don't see them and be annoyed with pickleball at that location but the other the other place is a better location but if bands on friday and saturday night down there that would be great so that's my opinion i i don't want to over talk anybody so

Is it feasible if that was turned into some type of a community center to put in restrooms that would accommodate events like that? Because you'd need more than one and one. I don't know.

More than one male and female bathroom?

You'd have to have multiple bathrooms. So I don't know if that's a feasible.

Now, Mountain Mendel already has restrooms.

No, I meant at the gym.

They were talking about if it was... At the gym, it can be done. As everything is, it would cost to do it.

I'm sure the same cost as a pickleball court.

To me, in summarization, if you take a look at the gym location, it seems like you're trying to fit something in versus Mountain Meadow where you have a plethora of space and you have the ability to do... strategic thought and planning and consideration and maybe even Multi-use for some of the facilities to maximize the space and it's a wide open space with plenty of parking Yes, because he said there was no restroom so if it was used as a community thing then About the gym it would just all depend on after an instructor a structural engineer looked at it to see if it's a viable use for that I

where the existing building, from a budgetary standpoint, makes more sense. You can use the property that's already there versus having to start anew in Mountain Meadow Park.

But that's not necessarily true, though, because if you have to undergo the restrooms, you're going to incur the cost of adding your restroom complex where it already exists in Mountain Meadows. So I don't know that cost-wise it would be a whole, whole lot different from one to the other, its location.

And at some point, hopefully we can develop or have a plan for all of our town properties, all 20 some odd of them. So there is always the potential that regardless, no matter what, both locations are going to have to consider restrooms into its future. So that one kind of, in my personal opinion, almost starts to become a little bit of a wash.

And one of the things that I like and what I hear is that if you did a sports complex with Mountain Meadow, it's designated a sports complex. It has an identity. Already, yes. Yeah. No, I think we still need to build upon it because the vacancy rate down there is just tremendous. I live near it, and I see it's not utilized. And if we were able to develop that and make that an epicenter, and then the talk of trying to find something... It's like a town center over near where the gym is and giving that its identity as a town center and then all of your activities and your events and whatever you wanted to do oriented toward that. It gives definition to both locations and there's Less confusion, I think, than there is today.

And some of the feedback that I've just heard through the community, nothing like on on. We could look back at the survey back in 2023, but the revitalization ideas that I've just heard through in passing about lakeside area. And the opportunity, a lot of people ask questions about that area. They like the wider streets. And there's already some, you know, residential apartments and condominiums that are already there. So the precedence is already in place. And we can certainly look at that.

Someone had mentioned the entertainment center. And, you know, you throw a KT Classics or somebody in that building until 11 o'clock at night or whatever. That noise is going to be a way whole lot more than a pickleball court ever dreamed of. I'd have a heart attack if someone did it close to my house. I'll go someplace to see them, but I don't want to sit in my front room and listen to it.

It's penetrating noise. I live in the county in Pinetop Lakes, and I probably live at least a half a mile from the tennis courts that are turned into pickleball mostly now. And I can sit on my front patio drinking coffee in the morning, and I know they're playing. And we're talking a heavily wooded area and a lot of buildings in between me. So the noise does have to be a consideration, I think. But, you know, I think you can categorize areas in an old, established neighborhood. So, you know, what are you doing to the resale? You know, how are you getting all that stuff out there? This is the thought.

Good.

On that survey, was there requests from the community for other types of community type places?

When did we do that, 2023, the community survey?

Yeah.

Definitely. They always want more outdoor recreation. And an event center was a big one.

It was really big. Did they add any other requests in so far as an event center besides Pickleball? I can deep dive that and bring it back.

A skate park, a bike park, more mountain biking, more baseball fields. There's a lot. Yeah, anything outside for kids to do.

I would wish for having more sports at the Mountain Lake, Woodland Lake thing.

Anything in particular that you want us to look into?

Any what?

Any sports in particular worth looking into outside of baseball or Little League baseball?

No, I think they've got it pretty well covered out there. A track just for running would be good. And actually, you could put in a real gym. Excuse me, but I'm not a pickleball player. So, you know, with some weights, maybe some weight machines. It's an older crowd. It tends to be moving up here more. And they tend to use machines rather than free weights.

And that would have to be enclosed. You couldn't do that outside.

Make that a whole sports complex. I kind of throw everything in there together. Yeah. Use the gym down here as an event center for meetings or you could rent it out for weddings. I mean, there's a severe lack of buildings up here, or at least there was. I have to go back a couple years to my statement. But there's not a lot of places you can go for an event

get out of the weather that i know about anyway so question for staff if you talk to um the high school would their you know i know they've got their own sports complexes and facilities but would they have any interest in utilization and any aspect associated with mountain meadow we

We do partner with them in the use of the baseball fields, training, football, that kind of stuff.

There is a good partnership with them. Oh, there has?

Okay. I will say my son's on travel ball, and he's also on the White Mountain Little League club. And a lot of that is from some of the teams that we played with. A lot of it is like a lot of SHOLO kids. that come up here. And so that's kind of nice because afterwards everyone goes and gets pizza or eats over at Red Devil and different things like that. So there's not just the schools in general. We also have a lot of other traveling leagues and things like that. And bringing up more traveling leagues would be a huge asset to the town. Frank knows a lot about that. So he and I have been working together to compile a lot of this information. So we're exploring that.

Wickenburg. they take advantage of that all winter long. Travel baseball. You know what? When a team of 12 kids, when 20 teams of 12 kids, they bring their families and stay in hotels and eat at restaurants. I've always been, I've always pushed on, hey, let's, it would be nice to have more baseball fields and have, have a, TOURNAMENTS IN THE SUMMER, BUT THEN AGAIN, YOU GOT TO HAVE IT STAFFED. YOU GOT TO PAY FOR THAT. AND SO, I DON'T KNOW. THAT WOULD BE GOOD, TOO.

WE'VE ALREADY HAD THREE BIG TOURNAMENTS HERE.

WELL, SOFTBALL TOURNAMENTS. THERE'S BEEN RARELY ANY BASEBALL TOURNAMENTS. THE BASEBALL TOURNAMENTS GO DOWN TO THE CHULK. OR THEY PLAY AT BLUE RIDGE HIGH SCHOOL. And we couldn't do, as the Little League president, when I was Little League president, I was told by the Little League, state Little League, that we couldn't do tournaments here at Mount Meadows because we didn't have a scoreboard. Granted, this was eight years ago, and I wanted to push to make fun... I don't know if... I don't know if I'm breaking the law by talking about this, but tell me if I need to stop. But... I was going to push to find fundraisers to pay for those signs so that it wouldn't be at the cost of the town. I mean, they were like $10,000. You get four people to pay $5,000 each, and they'd pay for it. But I don't know.

On the other side of it, look at the number of people withdrawing to town. Yeah.

When I was looking at some of the biblical ball court videos for down in Show Low, what I noticed is that a lot of businesses hang their banners on the inside of those, which I was like, that's genius. It helps promote the local community in advertising. I don't know what that would look like, and we'd have to bring that back to Christy and the town attorney. Whether or not we can do that, I don't know. people can hang banners and stuff it's also genius to add food and beverage on the inside yeah local people so so i think we covered the sports um concepts pretty well over at mountain meadow and the different types of sports um i heard music from phil um looking kind of reverting back to the town gym property any other creative ideas that we can explore and bring back at a later date to the commission

A rose garden, I don't know. A rose garden.

Isn't it used as a car show today too? Doesn't the car clubs have a car show there once a year? Or is that up at Plain Top? Yeah, that's up at Plain Top.

They use that for like the Christmas cabin uses it for their Christmas stuff during the holidays and the Santa meet and greet. That's all that's come into my mind right now, but I know that's those types of events.

We would like to get, especially the younger folks, utilizing that facility a little bit more as well.

Because if you go down to Sholo right now, if you go down to Sholo, the pickleball court, you'll see 10 kids from up here playing pickleball right now. Sorry.

Yeah. I think an amphitheater would be good. A little thing like that. Not big, but... I know earlier this week we met with MPC, and so the...

There's a lot of up and coming things within our surrounding White Mountain communities. So even doing something as simple as chair yoga or introducing different types of classes and stuff. I know we talked a little bit earlier about indoor conferences, Larry. Is that something that is worth looking into? What would that incorporation in that area be worthwhile?

The other thing I can think of, a lot of the communities now do, where the restaurants get together and they do a taste of Pinetop Lakeside. And they all set up events and do little tastings of their various restaurants, promoting their restaurants. There may be some interest in local restaurants to do something in that on a weekend. Farmer's Market, moving that over into that area and holding that. arts and crafts events to hold in that little area. Utilization of things like that I would think would be a consideration for viability.

Have you guys been down to, during the Fourth of July when they do the big Fourth of July festival down at the high school in Cholla, how they have that set up? just got hit with the water hydrant thing by the fire department but that was about the extent of it well i could suffer through so during fourth of july they set this up and they have these events but what if you turned that truly just into an event center where you had an indoor option but you created a nice lawn where they could set up, have your vendors, a gaming center for adults that need to get out and interact and find other adults, where they could have their game groups or card groups or whatever like that. But you've also got the outdoor lawn where you could set up and have a concert if you wanted to, as they do in the Show Low Park for 4th of July. But it's... Nice grass. It's not a permanent fixture there all the time, right? Yeah. It needs a little life to the area, for sure, the desert. And an outdoor event, well, indoor-outdoor event center.

Kind of behind, like in Shoal, how they have that behind the fire, pickleball's in front of the fire station, and that grass park is behind it with the playground. It's just flat grass for probably about 100 yards of grass. You just play around on it. And then...

The gym could still be used for any athletics, I guess, right? What could use for any indoor event?

Yeah, I would think that it should be the situation. It's owned by the town, correct?

Correct.

You know, for motion to get more clubs and organizations in for utilization, I'm sure that there's rent that's got to be paid for that, for use of that facility, and there should be. And it should be done on a consistent basis so that we're not favoring one club over another, either on a per-hour basis or whatever it may be. But, you know, small revenue generation for the town.

use it till we can't until it falls apart yeah the wheels fall off so to speak there's no public comment larry i know you're with the white mountain nature center i always feel like there's a lot of value that comes out of there any ideas no not yet i know you guys do a lot of different activities that would be another where another place to hold those types of activities though

I know that you did a pretty little outdoor gazebo. You could even open it up for prom at the high school if you were to soup it up nicely or, you know, outdoor events like that for the younger kids. I like the soup it up part. Okay, well, maybe that's not the technique. I'm going to write that down. Fluff it up, proof it up, whatever. Light it up because that's pretty much what they like. Yeah.

I think I've got a lot to work with.

Okay. Any further comments from commissioners? Ideas? Questions?

The only thing I was going to say is the sports complex is in the future. Months? Years? Are we in? Should we be thinking about the now? What do we got to do to the gym to make it viable for the next few years? Get ready for it. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we do have a lot of grants. priorities that we have to examine making sure that we're holding firm on finishing those out and the obligations um in order to pave the path for for either location so making sure that we're holding true on our obligations and we're not putting the town at any future risk so i'll include that back to the council to evaluate the biggest drawback excuse me the biggest drawback i would see from the gym is parking

I mean, the bigger thing you put in there, the more people are going to come, and then they're going to start. Back on top, we're out on woodland. You've got lots of room to park. I'd like to see that gym thing be more of a... exhibit hall conferences, that sort of thing. Maybe rent it out for whatever wild thing people come up with and keep the physical activity of large crowds out woodland because you've got room to handle it. The bottleneck that you could cause there by the post office would be astounding. Those roads aren't You go around the police department, and it's almost like a little wagon trail that comes up.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Would a traffic survey be beneficial to either group?

Yes, ma'am. Yeah, that's a good point.

The other thing that probably should be considered, speaking of that, is truly figure out where you could put the largest amount of parking that you could accommodate if you were to make an event center or something. That's a real problem. Yeah, you'd have to plan that into it. So maybe where can we park from our runoff and how much space does that leave us to work with? Okay.

What's our maximization? Yeah. Okay. That's a lot. I'll be busy.

Very busy.

Job security.

There we go, Phil. Further questions, comments from commissioners? Staff, any questions to commissioners? Thank you. All right. But given that there's no further business, I'll adjourn this meeting.