Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'll call the meeting to order at 6 o'clock. We have a quorum, four members present for the board. If you would please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You'd never know what you'll be today, would you?

Okay. A business meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission. The town hereby welcomes and encourages public participation. Individuals addressing the Commission shall direct all remarks to the Commission as a whole and shall refrain from addressing individual Commission members, town staff, or members of the audience. Pursuant to the Arizona Open Meeting Law, the Commission is limited in its ability to discuss or take action on matters raised during the call to the public. The Commission may, however, direct staff to review the matter and place it in future agenda for consideration. Items that are scheduled on the current agenda will not be heard or discussed during the call to the public. Speakers are limited to three minutes. Do we have any speakers?

We do not have any speakers for call to the public.

Okay, very good. First item of business, item C1, consider approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission regular minutes held April 23rd, 2026. We have a motion.

I make a motion to accept them.

Okay, thank you, Robert. Is there a second? I second that motion. Good. Any discussion? No discussion noted. All in favor of accepting the minutes as represented, please raise your right hand. Okay, motion passes unanimously. Item C2, consider approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission work session minutes held on May 14th, 2026. We have a motion.

I can't make a motion because I wasn't there, correct?

You could still make a motion. You're just approving that you did read the minutes and you agree with that action, please.

Go ahead. Go ahead. I make a motion to approve the minutes for the meeting, the work session meeting on the 26th. May 14th. May 14th.

I second.

Thank you, Robert. We have a second. Any discussion on the motion? No discussion noted. All in favor of accepting the work session minutes, please raise your right hand. Motion passes unanimously. Okay, item D, new business. Public comment will be taken at the beginning of each agenda item after the subject has been announced by the chairman and explained by staff. Any citizen who wishes may speak once for five minutes on each agenda item before or after the commission discussion. Questions from commission members, however, may be directed to staff or a member of the public through the chairman at any time. Okay, discussion and possible recommendations regarding an amendment to Town Code 17, Chapter 17.108.050, parentheses A, signs not requiring permit, dash political signs. I'd at this time ask the staff to present this item.

Good evening, Commissioner and Board. I would like to introduce you to Jennifer Butterbrook, who is our new community development manager. She would like to present this item to you, and she will explain a little bit about it.

Very good.

Thank you.

Good evening, Chairman Jeff Stearns and Planning and Zoning. board. This item was presented to the Planning and Zoning Commission for a workshop discussion on May 14, 2026, with the purpose of holding a public hearing tonight on June 11, 2026, to consider and propose amendments and make a formal recommendation to the town council. We do have on the line our town attorney, William Sims, who will go over that item.

Are you ready now? Thank you. Can you hear us? Yes, Bill's here. Are you ready for me now? Can you hear me? Are you ready for me now? Yes, one, two, can you hear me? Can anybody hear me? Hello?

Can you hear us?

I'm here. Can you hear me? Hello? Can you guys hear me?

Can you hear me? Hello?

Can you hear me?

I'm here. Can anybody hear me?

Bill, we can't hear you.

We can hear him back there. We just can't hear him on the speaker system here.

One second, Bill.

Bill, I'm going to call you back from a different number.

OK, I'll hang up.

We'll hear that sound a lot.

No worries.

Jeff, maybe we can talk about the World Cup.

the next session. Yeah. We'd have to make a motion to move it to the next meeting.

Yeah, we're good.

Should we try to call myself on the speaker?

Hi, Bill. We're having technical difficulties, so I called you back from my cell phone. And I'm going to put you next to a microphone.

We're still checking. Hello, it's a test.

Can you hear me? Oh, you know, it's probably coming at the headset part.

Test, one, two, I can yell.

We can hear you.

I'll yell. Tell me when you want me to start.

Not me.

But is it going to be on the video? No, I mean, is it going to be on the video on YouTube?

Microphone's not working.

It doesn't pick up very well from the cell phone.

I can do a Zoom with you if you have the ability.

I can zoom. Yes. Give me like three minutes and then he'll be on the screen and louder. Is that better?

Yeah, that would be great. Thank you.

It worked earlier. Pretty much stone cold deaf. Hearing aids are beyond me. He's going to be talking about internet with you.

Signing in all that. That's what he's going to be talking about.

Yes, he's going to Yes. Yeah, I don't think it's on period. Yeah, yeah, it's light is red. Yeah, indicating that. Is that?

Hello, hello, hello.

Test test test versus working.

They got him out.

You guys are live just so you can hear.

We're just, we couldn't hear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff, you might just mention for public watching that we're

Okay. For those of you out in the public, we're experiencing technical difficulties at this time and we're attempting to get William Sims onto the speaker system so that everybody here is able to hear him clearly. Stay tuned.

CHRISTIE, COULD WE SKIP TO ITEM D2, OR... PROBABLY NOT.

They'll have to make a motion to vote on it. And then for D2. We'll just explain what we were looking at and then decide if we want to make more. We want to modify it a little bit before we discuss it.

Did you hear anything about that accident on Brooks Springs and White Mountain?

Were there any injuries? There had to be. The front ends of those cars were It's really messed up.

I saw pictures of it. But then 30 minutes later, I saw the fire truck back in my neighborhood.

Just so you guys know, your mics are live.

WE JUST GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT THEY KNOW THE DIETEMPS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO. THEY'VE GOT IT. THEY MAY WANT TO GO OVER SOME OF IT TO ME.

MM-HMM.

OH, OKAY.

We're going to continue the discussion.

yeah we'll come back at the end of the month

Yeah. At least this wouldn't come back. We have . This is working though. No, it's not on that one. Is it on the other table?

I don't know how heavy that is.

Is it titanium? I can't get mine off. There's no inscription. It'll go with me. I've never had to worry about my hair falling out.

I would like to get it cleaned for me. It's been 15, 10 years.

Angela takes care of some of her hair. Yeah? Yeah. I can't do that. I'd have to clean it here.

It's just stuck on my hair.

It's pretty long, right?

Wow.

Here we go.

We made it. Hi, Bill. Welcome. Hi, guys. Welcome. Glad to meet you all. Are you ready?

I think we're all set, Bill. Yeah.

Okay. I can't see you, but you can see me.

Yes.

Yes. Arizona has really made . Reed Gilbert came out of Gilbert and it impacted the entire nation. Your new manager looked at your code and discovered that, and I don't want to admit absolute violations because this is a public meeting, discovered there was some language in your code that was challenging. Language that allowed you, the government, to in effect police up First Amendment rights on private property. This came simultaneously with legislation from the legislature to regulate the frequency and amount and size of signs in right-of-way. That's the statute that you're looking at, the code provision you're looking at tonight. The state legislature adopted a statute that allows you, requires you, to allow political signs to be in the right-of-way. And they have to meet certain stringent requirements and can't be unsafe. So you're Your new manager and Frank asked me to help you draft something, and that's what this does. It implements the state statute concerning the 71-day period, and it had to be done because we're now into the election season, that allows signs to be in the right-of-way. Now, I've got to tell you, I looked at the notes from your last work session. You guys are pretty discerning. What you said was, well, wait a minute. If Reed Gilbert says we can't read the sign to police it up, that's exactly what we're doing when we allow political signs in the right-of-way. And you said, you asked, and I understand why, why shouldn't we amend the code to also authorize other signs? And the reason is those other signs are authorized via the Constitution. The signs that are the subject of your code provision tonight is the subject of a state statute. Now, when the legislature adopted that state statute, they created an issue for you. The minute you allow a political sign in the right of way, you have to allow other signs. But you don't need to put that in the code because it already travels with the Constitution. Here are some examples. Your building department issues certificates of occupancy for people to move into their homes. When someone moves into their homes, They expect, under the Fourth Amendment of our Constitution, to be free from illegal search and seizure. We don't sign an agreement with them. You don't sign an agreement with them when you issue the certificate of occupancy that you won't invade their house without an adequate warrant, because that comes with the Constitution. That's exactly what applies to private signs in the right-of-way. They have the right to be there, and you don't have the right to say no during that 71-day period. And that is why I understand why you asked the question, but because it's not in the code, because our code doesn't document every constitutional right. And when the legislature drafted this, I represent 77 cities and towns on land use, we pointed out that they're creating an open door here. The minute you, a local government, allow as you are required now, via that statute to allow political signs 71 days before the election you now have to allow others now the problem is there could be too many and i think if that occurs then i think you're going to have to and i think you'd have to be equal equally you'd have to begin paring back the number of signs and you and so you wouldn't just take down the the non-political signs you have to allow some and not others as long because because the state statute says it can't be hazardous So that's what came before you the last work session, and I was impressed that you guys read the case and asked a really good question. I said, what in the heck is the town attorney doing? Because he's telling us we have to read the sign to allow a political sign in the right-of-way, because that's what the legislature said. But as I instructed your staff, and we're telling you now, but by doing that, you have to allow other signs But if there are so many that it's hazardous, then you have to start filtering out some of the signs. So I recommend approving this. I do point out your new manager has come on fast and has found issues. For example, what we're also doing in this code amendment, we're addressing the problem that arose out of the implication that you could tell people in their front yard what kind of sign they can put up. You can't do that. As long as it meets the sign code, as long as it beats the size. And I think some sign code says you can't be on walls, you can't have banners. I don't know what your kind of sign code says. But if I have a home and I want to put a real estate sign or I want to put a political sign, as long as the size is permitted by your sign code, I can put that sign up and it's not limited by the 71-day rule. It can go up whenever. So what we're doing tonight is, one, implementing the state statute. that allows you to respond to the requirement imposed by the state legislature to allow political signs of your right-of-way and with all those strict restrictions. And by doing that, your constituents need to know they have the right to come to you and say, I want to put up a sign too during that 71-day period. That's the first thing it does. The second thing this does is it corrects the overreaching aspects of your prior code which tended to imply that you could tell someone what sign they can put in their front yard and you can't. So your new manager saw that, struck it, and that's what this code provision does. Having said that, and I've worked on sign codes for a number of other jurisdictions, and I see it's on your agenda, and I see you have a new, I don't know what you call your zoning, the woman who spoke before me, I think it's time to roll up your sleeves and fix your sign code. And I'd be happy to send them the codes we've done in other provisions. Bottom line is, I compliment you for asking a tough question at the last work session. I hope I've been able to answer it. I hope I've been able to explain to some in your community why political signs can be up in front yards before the 71 days. Because the 71 days only applies in the right of way. And I hope I've been able to explain why you were right at the last work session. And by adopting this, you have to allow other signs as well. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer.

Any questions for Bill?

I think it's cutting dry.

Robert? I'm good. I think we're good, Bill.

Sorry it took so long to get me plugged in.

No, that was our end. And thank you for your patience and really appreciate the detailed explanation. That was very well done.

Thank you. Oh, I work with 77 cities and towns. I admire what you're doing up in Pinetop Lakeside. You're a good group. Thank you, sir.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Bill.

Thanks, Bill.

Okay, at this time we'll open the public hearing and invite public comment. Madam Clerk, do we have any comments?

Yes, we have Pat DeRosier.

Good evening. I'm Pat DeRosier. I am a voter in the town of Pinetop Lakeside as well as owning commercial and residential properties within town limits. I'm asking for your agreement with the sign ordinance as it has been presented by the staff. As it is rewritten, it provides better clarity and aligns with the state regulations, as you heard tonight. My properties have had political signs on my private property. Yet due to confusion and ignorance, a current candidate has been harassing business owners and tenants regarding their signs. Your immediate agreement to changing the town code will be very helpful. It'll help in eliminating confusion, hatred, anger, and harassment regarding these political signs. Thank you.

Thank you. Any further comments? Okay, there are no further comments at this point. I will close the public hearing and open the board for discussion and consideration of the recommendations. Any recommendations?

I think it's cut and dry. I'm ready to make a motion, but I'd like to hear some input if there is any.

I have no questions myself. I think that this has been well researched by staff. I think that the recommendation speaks for itself. So I have no comments.

No?

Go ahead.

All right, then I move to recommend that the Town Code, the Town Council amend Town Code Title 17, Chapter 17.108.050A, signs not requiring permit, political signs as follows. Political signs of not more than 16 square feet if the sign is located in an area zone residential and 32 square feet on signs not located in residential areas are permitted during an election campaign. All political signs shall comply with ARS 16-1019. Political signs may be freestanding or wall mounted to a building or fence mounted. Roof mounted signs are not permitted. Political signs may not be affixed to utility poles or traffic signs and shall not in any way present a traffic hazard or vision obstruction.

Thank you. Is there a second?

I second.

Thank you, Robert. Any discussion on the motion? No discussion noted. All those in favor of the motion, please raise your right hand. Okay. All those opposed? I'm just abstaining. Anybody abstaining?

One abstaining.

Okay. The motion passes. Thank you. Okay, item D2, work session, review and discussion regarding the process for initiating a comprehensive review and potential amendments to town code, title 17, chapter 17.108, sign regulations. And I will ask at this time the staff to present the item.

All right, yeah, let me get... So this is a work session to review the rest of our assigned code. There are some things that we would like to add to this or make suggestions to. You do have this section here that defines what we want to look at. if you guys will review through that. Now, we can sit and discuss this if you'd like to for a little bit, or would you prefer that we make the suggestions we want and bring it back to you?

Yeah, I think it'd be prudent to make suggestions that you are seeking. Give everybody on the commission an opportunity to review. and come back for a comprehensive discussion at a work session at a date to be determined.

OK. But you'll need to make a motion to do that.

OK. I will make a motion that we at this point consider the items that staff has identified associated with the work session to review and discuss regarding the process for initiating a comprehensive review of political amendments to Town Code 17, Chapter 17.108, Signed Regulations. giving the Commission the opportunity to review these recommendations and proceed at a later date, perhaps the 25th of June, 2026, in a comprehensive work session for discussion.

I second the motion.

Okay. Thank you, Robert. Any discussion? No discussion noted. All those in favor of the motion, please raise your right hand. The motion passes unanimously. Very good. Thank you, staff, for the recommendations. Are there any further comments at this point in time? No further comments. And at this point, I will adjourn the meeting. Thank you for your time and consideration.