City Council - Regular Meeting

They hadn't presumably they hadn't embroidered it by the time. So they called and well the guy the oldest guy Thank you.

Oh yeah. Fish the clock. Ready. Ready. Ready. I am ready. Lindsay. I'm ready. We go. Moisturized and ready to go. All right. Standing in the holl standing. There's somebody right there. Just let there's one person involved. There is that person walk in the door. Community foundation. Okay.

Good evening. Welcome to City of Passi City Council to the meeting for January 19th, 2026. I ask that you rise with me for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. City clerk back. Would you please call roll presentat? Present.

Ntrab here. Walker present. Murphy

present. I'd like to read a proclamation. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s day uh proclamation. Whereas the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. was a pivotal leader in the U US civil rights movement who through nonviolent resistance and stirring orary prof uh profoundly impacted the course of American history and whereas Dr. King dedicated his life to advance equality, justice and civil rights for all, teaching us the value of courage, truth, compassion, and the inherent dignity and respect due to all people. And whereas in the his history historic I have a dream speech, Dr. King st shared his vision of a future where all individuals are judged by the content of their character. A dream no less inspirational and important today than when he first expressed it. Whereas Martin Luther King Jr. day is the only federal holiday designated as a national day of service, a day on, not a day off, inspiring Americans to transform communities through volunteerism and civil engagement. And whereas the city of Paskki engage encourages all residents to reflect on Dr. King's principles and the ongoing needs to build a beloved community where we all can thrive free of discrimination and fear. Now therefore, I, John Murphy, Mayor Pataskki, on behalf of the entire city council, do

hereby proclaim Monday, January 19th, 2026 as Martin Luther King Day Jr. in our community. and I urge all citizens to join in honoring the life and contributions of this remarkable leader. We encourage all community members to participate in service projects and educational opportunities and to rededicate our themselves to advancing the principles of justice, equality, and community service. They're signed January 19th, 2026. Next is the consent agenda. It's for the January 5th, 2026 regular session city council meeting minutes as well as the knowledge of receipt of certain trans administrative transactions that have occurred since January 5th, 2026. Also, please acknowledge the receipt of the December 2025 revenue and expenditures report. I ask if there's any questions, council, or comments you want to make.

I move acceptance of the consent agenda. Support. I have a motion from Mr. Wilmont and a second from Miss Deore. I go to Miss Beck for roll. Wilmont. Yes. De Moore. I Knocktrab I Walker I Murphy yes I consent agenda passes 5.

Prior to public comment I want to read a statement. I contacted the city manager earlier this week, last week I guess it was, and said that I felt that we should do design and put out to the public immigration and customs enforcement information that we felt were val I felt was valuable to the citizens, city manager, myself with the review of uh public safety director Carr as well as our city attorney. We drafted this letter and uh I'm going to share with you now because I feel this is uh the stance on the city of Paskki with this subject. The city of Paskki understand that members of the public may have questions about immigration and custom enforcement called ICE activity within the city and the role of the city public safety department. The city of Paskki public safety department's mission is to provide professional communityoriented police, fire, and emergency medical services to the community and to enforce state laws and local ordinances. The public safety department does not, I repeat, does not have a memorandum of understanding with ICE and does not participate in the federal government's 287G program, which is used to give local law enforcement officers the authority to perform certain civic immigration enforcement functions under ICE's direction. I say do not. This kind of partnership with ICE would require the authorization of the city council and has not been proposed. It is not currently under any consideration at

all. The public safety department does not assist with immigration enforcement. Does the federal activity within the city um during this federal activity within the city? The department's role is limited to observation and traffic control. Officers do not intervene unless there are acts of violence or a direct threat to public safety. Residents are encouraged to remain alert and to report concerns. If you see or hear suspicious or threatening behavior, call 911. public surf public safety department supports the rights of individuals to peacefully protest and to express their views. It is also important to note that the US Customs and Border Patrol and ICE are two different federal agencies. Border Patrol agents have long maintained a visibility presence in Bataski as a part of their routine patrol responsibilities. Questions regarding the border patrol activities should be drested to the US Customs and Border Protection in Sous St. Marie at 903 632 3383. Paskki Public Safety and its 20 sworn officers are proud to provide essential police, fire, EMS services to our community. Please call 3472500 for routine questions or 911 for both emergency and non-emergency needs. Next on the agenda is number six and

that's public comments. Individuals have a right to come to this mic when called. Please give us your full name or you get up, sir. Sir, let's let's follow this through. You'll come up and you'll give us your full name. Make sure the thing is on green. Number one. And number two, your directive to talking or speaking is to these people right up here, city council. Your if the audience is not your audience, you are to speak to city council. if you have the chance or opportunity to speak. Does anyone wish to speak to council at this point? Please raise your hand. Sir,

good evening, Mayor and Council. Derek Shields, W 2. Um, thank you for the time and thank you for the statement that was put out and that you just read, mayor, um, about immigration enforcement activity that shows leadership and courage. Thank you also to Director Carr and our public safety officers who hold themselves to the highest standards as they seek to keep us all safe. While I can and do trust that statement and our public safety officers, I've had the opportunity to work with all of you and I look and speak like all of you. Given the moral crisis we are facing where the federal government is manipulating their structural power for oppressive violence upon people that don't look like us and have accents different from ours. Question I have is should we do more than say trust us? I have drafted a resolution that stipulates many of the items in that statement as as one option for us to consider of something to do more. And I will email that this resolution to all of you for your consideration after tonight's meeting. What's the difference between a statement and a resolution? It's a fair question. A resolution affirms a policy position as an official act of a governing governing body. It is enacting. It is enacting structural power to meet a structural problem. We are safest when all residents can trust that they are safe. And I ask that you consider if a resolution is needed for that to be the case and move us closer in that direction. I acknowledge that a resolution surely does nothing to mend the great wound in

our nation. the in the inability to create a government that lives up to the ideal that all people are created equal. But let's do all that we can here in Paskki to pursue that reality that all people have value in dignity. I'll end by saying that I believe in the rule of law. I don't believe that law enforcement should abandon balance, dignity, or moral judgment. laws exist to serve human well-being, not to terrorize communities or strip people of their humanity. So, thank you for being courageous in keeping the abuse of federal enforcement at bay however you can. Thank you.

Anyone else wants to speak to council at this time? Are we allowed to speak from Zoom? you will be when I call on you. Um Oh, okay. I will give you the opportunity uh following someone that's up there now. Thank you. Thank you.

Um good evening. Um I'm Sue Vaner and I'm from live in Ward 2 in Paskki. Um I also was relieved to read Mr. Horn's recent statement that our public safety has no intention of entering into a 28 287g agreement with ICE and instead will be focused on its mission to protect the lives and property of our residents. But given the heartbreaking events in Minneapolis and elsewhere in the country, I feel it's not a lot to ask for a resolution that clearly states that our public safety will not go above and beyond its responsibilities in regards to engaging with ICE or Border Patrol. Such a me measure could provide some muchneeded reassurance and peace of mind to residents who may be feeling particularly anxious and vulnerable right now. Thank you. Thank you. Any else wish to speak to council at this time? Please, I will call on you after this next one, whoever's on the line. Liz.

Yes. Hi. Thank you. My name is Liz Cohen. I am actually not a Paskki resident. I'm in Levering. Um, however, I do have a son who attends the Paskki public schools and we frequent the businesses in Paskki on a practically daily basis. Um, I really also appreciate your proactive approach in putting out the letter that you did uh earlier um last week um and and stating that you would not be, you know, cooperating directly with ICE or um Border Patrol. However, I also um echo some of the sentiments already mentioned and I'm I'm looking to um encourage you to take you know kind of the next proactive approach and and proactively stating um you know through a resolution that you know the city of Paski um not only doesn't cooperate but um you know is actively working to protect um every every member of the community. Um, as we know, um, there is, um, across the country, you know, um, escalating violence as well as racial profiling. Um, and I think we should, you know, make it very clear that violence and racial profiling are not welcome in our community. Um, and I definitely appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you. My name is Grace Ketchum. I'm a member of the um parks and recck commission and um I just wanted to um ask the council to uh support the adoption of the proposed resolutions in regards to the um the uh winter sports park and the um uh and the riverbend skate park. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to council? Ma'am. My name is Anne Srigley, Ward One. I want to thank Mr. Horn for publishing the statement regarding the city's position on immigration and customs enforcement. And I also have a comment about the winter sports park. Is this an appropriate time? Okay. With respect to the win sports park, I would like to voice my opposition to the city's funding in resolutions one and two. It's a large amount of money out of the city's fund balance for one project which not everyone in the city uses. The amount has also grown substantially since this project was initially proposed. I'm much more inclined to reserve those funds for emergencies like the ice storm last winter. Thank you. Uh what I'm going to ask is from ask is if you have something you wish to discuss on the winter sports park project. It would really behoove us and behoove you if you waited until we come to that. You will have a chance to speak after each of those activities from the exemption policy to the to the winter sports project. Is there anyone else that wishes to speak to council at this time in general? Yes.

Hi, my name is Maline Park. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. Go ahead. I don't know who that was. To get the people here first and let them be. I think so, too. So, I don't know who that was. Keep looking.

You sure? Hi, my name is Colleen Patello. I'm in Ward One, right? Lindsay four. I'm so embarrassed. I just know it's Lindsay. I um I am the minister at the Chapel of Guardian Angels. And I I wanted to say thank you for all your support for the Lofts at Lumber Square. It does my heart so much good when I walk by and see these homes and that people have homes downtown. I'm just so happy about it. And I did nothing to make that happen. So, I just want to say thank you and about the um thank you so much for the bravery for posting that letter. Um I'm sometimes afraid to speak out and I'm really sad that it's that way. But um when I try to talk to some of my family, they tell me it's all made up. It's not real the fear. And um I'm really sad. My daughter lives in Pasadena, California, and is dating an American citizen of 100% Hispanic descent. and he is afraid to travel on vacation with us or to come here. He does not want to go to an airport. Carries his passport but is afraid. And so I just want to say the fear is real and I deeply appreciate it. And I understand your dilemma because sometimes if you do a resolution it might bring out all kinds of people to fight. So you're probably trying to do the right thing and um I find myself doing that too. Trying to stand up and do the right thing but also not become a target or make incredible waves. And um I'll just close. My daughter who was very sad about this said, "Mom, it reminds me of the books I read about Nazi Germany when they had to carry their papers cuz her boyfriend will not go out without his papers now and doesn't want to travel." So I just wanted to share that as a real life experience. It is real. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to council at this time? We'll now go online. I'm just gonna go in no particular order. So, my best go um this person in. So, Erin, where'd she go?

Oh, how do you raise your hand? I don't know. So, Erin Dodge is live and Karen Dodge, are you on? Hear me? Karen Dodge. Can you hear me? Yes, you have the floor.

Okay, thank you. Hello, mayor and council members. Um, I am Karen Dodge and I live in Bear Creek Township. Um, I'm going to read my statement here just to keep myself on track. Um, you may have heard that the township and the county approved a PUD for an apartment complex on Innertown Road in the township. I'm here regarding the proposed development of the Anderson Well, which is owned by the city, which development is in the first stages with conversations between the developer and the city. This development could affect residents outside the city limits, particularly those in Bear Creek Township. The neighborhoods surrounding this project understand that water infrastructure is complex and that additional evaluations, engineering work, and permitting are still mandatory. However, because this project directly affects neighboring residents and shared groundwater resources, transparency is essential. Specifically, my neighborhood is asking that all technical evaluations, studies, cost estimates, timelines, and funding sources be made publicly available as they're completed. Please, not after decisions are finalized. This would be important not only for the residents in the area of the Anderson Well, but also residents of Paskki, particularly as it pertains to costs and responsible parties. Um, the neighborhood is asking for clarity on what work needs to be completed, any risks identified, and how potential impacts to private wells and groundwater levels will be monitored and addressed. We are asking for openness, accountability, and meaningful access to in information before irreversible steps are taken. We believe you would have the same concern for the property owners and taxpaying citizens both in the city and the township. But because this project

extends beyond city boundaries because the the well is owned by the city, we respectfully request ongoing communication with Bear Creek Township residents and opportunities for public input as this project moves forward. And um back in March there was information presented. Jason Fate has been um helpful with answering some of our questions. But we're just wanting to make sure that comm communication keeps keeps going with this uh project es like I said especially if it affects our private wells but then also because of the huge cost involved and um who is responsible for for that.

Thank you. Thank you for your time. Oh, Hillary Lake's going to be next. John, who is it? Hillary Lake. Okay, when you're ready. Hillary Lake. Yes, thank you. Can you hear me?

Yes, please take the mic. Um, I want to speak in reference to the letter that uh, Shane uh, Horn put out and gratitude for the effort that he has to share um, the city's perspective and the care that that is being taken to um, consider those who are very concerned at this time with the potential uh, risks of ICE and the confusion that people might have around the relation relationship that ICE may have to border control and and local law enforcement. And I want to speak in support of the resolution that Derek Shields has brought forward. Um I am currently a member of the interfaith common ground and have been asked previously to be the chair of this group and our our group of faith leaders in the community as well as people who are concerned of faith have made great efforts in um refocusing our work towards advocacy to support those who are non-dominant um and are not systemically um often uh supported in our communities and in communities of course all around our country and considering the the risks that many of these people may be feeling and many people may be feeling around racial profiling like Liz brought forward as well. Um, I want to speak to encouraging this resolution and um, supporting those who may be most vulnerable in our community and to help them feel that uh, the city is thinking about them as well. So, thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you,

Nikki Davidson. Nikki, you're on.

Thank you, Mayor Murphy, and thank you, council. I just wanted to take a minute to recognize the fact that with you in the audience today and online, you have several members of the Leadership Little Traverse class of 2026. For those who don't know, this is a nine-month professional leadership program uh that the chamber hosts that is there to inspire and prepare our future civic leaders for the li little Traverse Bay region to hopefully take action and understand the community on a better, stronger level. Uh I'm thrilled that they are there today and those that are online as well. Uh they will be of course in city hall uh coming up later this year for their full government day. But part of their requirement for their nine-month program is for them to spend time at a public meeting of any sort. Uh to get a better understanding of how public meetings and comments and how it all works in a municipality and how their input truly matters. And clearly today we've already heard statements from many community members and I think this is a great example. I think good governance is one of the most important things that we can teach our future leaders and so I appreciate you all and appreciate them taking the time this evening to be on hand uh for this wonderful meeting. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to city council at this point? Ron Marshall. Okay. Right. Mr. Marshall, you have the floor. You just muted him. Sarah. No, I I said asked to unmute. Mr. Marshall, you have the floor. He was unmuted.

Can um Hello, I'm Caroline Mansinger, his wife. Um, I'm asking the city to consider the safety of the many, many people who exercise their free speech to protest the various um atrocities going on in our um country. And I know that we um are at a vulnerable spot out there at the open space at the city people's park. I I also know that um the police or the public safety help out at like I don't know football games and basketball games and that might include overtime and I'd just urge the council to consider the safety of us uh people who are protesting. I'm we get coal rolled uh toxic um smoke blown at us and I really appreciate many of those um perpetrators have been followed up with by the public safety. But if the if some share a concern that a car could pop the curb and plow into us, I would just again urge you to look at overtime and consider that the the protests aren't every day. They're not even every week, but I think we're going to have more of them than less and maybe allocate having an officer right there that could deter someone from um mayhem. Thank you so much for listening to me.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to council at this time? Can you hear me? Yes. Uh G please give us your name and you have the floor.

Okay. I'm calling in so I can't see um anything. My name is Maline Parks and I'm calling to thank you as well for the statement that you put out. Um and I just want to echo some of the things every a lot of other people have said um for public safety um especially for people that might not look like a lot of us. Um, and so I think it's very important to put a policy in place um to be able to kind of back up um some of the statements. So um I'm looking forward to um a moment in time where there the resolution that Derek had suggested will be put out and um then that can come into fruition. So, thank you again and um please follow up with that.

Thank you, Sarah. Anybody else? I don't I don't see any hands and I don't see any unmutes. Okay. So, I don't think so.

Audience, you're fine. Okay. Thank you for your comment. City council as you know takes notes and takes stuff under advisement. I appreciate your input. We welcome it at any time. Every meeting this opportunity is there along with after every every motion that has any act action on the agenda. You'll have a opportunity to speak as well. Now I'm going to turn over to city manager Horn for his city manager's report update for December 19th. Thank you, mayor, city council members. Uh just a few updates from me uh this evening. Just a reminder to residents, um Christmas tree drop off is available at our public works facility on Sheridan Street. We'll keep that opportunity available through the end of January uh when we will um uh have a contractor come in and grind and chip uh the material to recycle. So that opportunity still exists. Please do not place your trees in the right of way. Uh instead make plans to have them delivered to the Sheridan Street facility. Few updates this week on public meetings. Excuse me. Uh our downtown management board uh meets tomorrow night um at six o'clock in the community room uh for their regular meeting and then they also have a strategic planning session for um the calendar year of 26 to look at their uh strategic plan and update that if possible. Planning commission meets uh for their regular meeting on Wednesday uh January 21st at 6:00. That's also in the community room. Um, and then later in the month on the 29th, they're having a special meeting. Uh, this would be a Thursday night, Thursday, January 29th at 6 to continue

working through their zoning ordinance update. So, obviously, these meetings are all open to the public. These are public meetings, and we encourage folks to participate just as you are this evening. Um, I I did reach out to uh Jane at uh uh Northern Homes just to try to get an update on the lofts project and where their their leasing uh was currently. Uh she did respond very quickly, which I certainly appreciate. Uh today, um she mentioned as of February 1st, they expect to have 20 uh apartments occupied. They're actively processing 25 additional applications. Uh 40 households have requested applications and just as a reminder leasing is first come first serve with fully completed applications and supporting documentation prioritized. So far more than 500 households have inquired about about the apartments to date and again they're still accepting applications. You can go to their website and apply from there. I I asked the same questions to uh the block at Paskki, the former maple block site. Unfortunately, I could not connect with the developer today, but I will respond back to you all once I hear um that update from them. Wanted to send out some congratulations to a few folks in public safety. uh our lieutenant Mike Mike Parker retired at the end of December after 27 years with the uh city of Paskki public safety. Uh so congrats to Mike. Um and our detective Will Bowen was promoted to his seat as Lieutenant. Um so we congratulate Will for that opportunity to get uh um that position as well. So again, congrats to both. Uh Mike's been a great uh resource, a great partner with public safety for many, many years,

and I know he's left his imprint on many of the younger officers that are with us today. Then just as a reminder, coming up in uh um later in February, just marking your calendars, February 13 through the 15th is our next big weekend in the city of Paskki, our winter wonderland weekend. Again, that's February 13 through 15th. We have a lot of different activities lined up that weekend downtown. So, we encourage folks to uh check out the downtown Paskky's website and Facebook page and stay informed on all the activities that will be associated with that um weekend. Any questions from me,

council? Mr. Moore. Uh thank you. It's not a question, just an adjunct to the comment about the winter wonderland weekend. Since there was an introduction of the leadership little Trevor's folks in the audience, I also wanted to indicate that this evening in the audience, we have Amelia Schuman and uh Eloise Jones, both members of the Paskki Youth Advisory Council. and the group will be volunteering on the 14th at the Winter Wonderland Festival at the Winter Sports Park to provide some craft activities for folks attending. So, thank you for being here. Anyone else? Mr. N.

Uh, yes. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Uh Shane, do you have any target dates on when the zoning ordinances is going to come here before council that we can start reading what they're suggesting? I don't. It'll probably be later in the spring is what I'm I what I would project. Mayor Walker.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, Shane, I did have a question in regards to public comment that was made earlier um, in regards to this Bear Creek um, uh, planned unit development on Anderson Road at Intertown Road. Can you remind me is that the same development that the Salvation Army and um, our friends at the Anima House were proposing for low-income housing and the shelter.

I don't believe so. Nehemiah House still has property um kind of across from the Meyer gas station. That's still their property. So, this is on Innertown Road. Um I don't recall how many units are proposed there, but I I think these are separate things, different developments. Yes. Thank you so much. Anyone else?

Thank you, city city manager Horn, for your updates. Now, we're going to old business. It's the adoption of the proposed resolution approving the 2026 poverty exemption policy and guidelines. And I'm going to turn that over to city manager Horn for a little update on this. We've talked about this, I believe, at the last meeting.

Yep. Thank you, Mayor. Um, just based on your feedback, um, we kind of went back and I'm going to really give credit to Sarah here. she did a a kind of a deep dive with other communities on um what other communities provide as far as poverty exemption goes and the guidelines that they use. As you know, historically we've used um the federal poverty guidelines and it's a all kind of all or nothing. If you meet the criteria, you you you qualify. If you don't, you you don't you get essentially zero um exemption. Um, so one thing that we talked about at the at our last meeting, I proposed um potentially a sliding scale of uh a 75% bracket, a 50% bracket, and a 25% bracket. Essentially using a 5% increase over the federal poverty level guidelines, a 10% increase, and then a 15% respectively at in those u categories. And then the feedback I received at the last meeting was well what about a kind of a straight across the board above and beyond increase to the federal uh poverty level guidelines. Um just for simplicity sake for our board of review uh members so they can they can have all the information in front of them uh that's required to produce from a verification standpoint. And then it's a kind of another simple uh process that they can that they can go through. In our review, there are many communities that um u that that just simply have a above a certain percentage um above the federal guideline percentage. Um some communities do the the the partials

broken down into 75, 50, and 25%. Um, so I think my take-home from from this research was that this is um something that many communities provide their residents and certainly this is a policy decision of city council. When I say percentages, I I don't want anyone to mean that this is coming from staff. This is just to start a conversation. Certainly, this is a policy decision of city council. So when I say option three being 20% increase over the federal poverty guidelines that is just a you know that's this is for you to decide. You could say you know less you could say more. You could say you know again this is your policy decision. So I don't certainly don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to set any sort of policy in my role here as city manager. This is just kind of to start the the conversation. So, we did do our kind of our homework as was requested by city council and that's um in your packet. Um certainly we're open to questions, comments, feedback. As I mentioned before, not to not to put you in the spot tonight, but we do have to have this uh uh done tonight. uh we have to have this ready for February 1st as our deadline unless you all want to come back for a special meeting between now and uh then. So, thank you for your consideration. We'll take your input.

Input anybody? Mr. Knobro? Um thanks. Um I think at the last meeting I probably talked more in a different way than the rest of the my colleagues did. I I wanted to appreciate what uh the the homework that uh Sarah and Shane did. It was really helpful to me. I didn't um Mr. Chat did not give me that same kind of detail when I was doing the research. Um so you you can rely on your your Sarah better than chat GBT. Not all. Um I'm human.

I I sent this uh poverty exemption to my my vast mailing list of my u three to uh to get some feedback. Um and I also got uh some unsolicited feedback uh after the last meeting. So I had a total of six. One was a very informed person and the other ones were just reading it and and said and so they they all and I explained it. They all basically were in agreement with what I was saying, what I'm thinking. And maybe that's was kind of to be expected because I was putting my own bias on it. I don't know. Um but having been on the board for the tax review board for a number of years, I think this is not a this is we're trying to solve a problem that one doesn't exist. Um two, it is such a minor minor group of people that um it it it's it doesn't I'd rather I'd rather have put money aside to u to make housing more affordable or to have home ownership as it said the last time. It's so much better. Uh there's no cap on the houses for the poverty exemption. You could have a million-doll home. You could have a $200,000 home. You could have a debtree no mortgage. You can have there's all there's different ways to to to get it that just doesn't make sense to me. Having said all that, I also think that Paskki is in a unique area. Our property values are a little are high. there is some problems relative to income to property values and and particularly after the the the studies that that you guys gave I would personally rather just increase it to the 20% or thereabouts and make it a flat 100% and not get into the the burden of of four different incomes of four different scales. the optics of that are bad and we're only talking a few thousand dollars. Either to give a

100% to everybody at that top level, then burden the tax review board with all these these these applications that I don't think we're going to get because it doesn't there's not that many people that actually own homes that are in a dire strait of income and that just doesn't exist. I would like to propose that we we we we do the 20% 100% for the 20% over poverty is what I'd like to to I'm going to ask the city manager a question then for you since you brought that up. How many pe roughly how many people do we have last year that uh utilized the service? Four.

Was there four? Did you get that? And that's at the 100% number. Hang on one second. Wait, is this sticking out? I don't think there was any last year. Your your question is for last year. There was one in December, but there there was only one in December. There was not one in July, but I'm not a uh the assessor would know how many was. Four of seven applications were approved.

Four of seven. And that is at the 100%. So now we're talking of another group of people just below that. And looking at it, would it behoove us to assist those people when you're talking of $18,000 a year income, which has to be a real struggle? So, I'm sorry, mayor. So, from 23 to 25, we had three applications and they all denied and all were denied. They didn't meet the requirements. So, from 20 that 2016 to today, our total was nine. Okay.

So, we're not talking a large volume. We're not talking a large volume, but that's the people that would qualify for 100% duplicate. Wonderful. And we're talking of positive. We looked at the analysis was that on those three from the last three years that were denied, if we ran the calculations that we're proposing today, they would they would have qualified. Um, and the let's see, right? Okay. Because it was 20%. We just gave the assessment. Yeah. So, we did the 20%. Um, so that they would have qualified. Um the resulting uh tax impact was just over $3,000.

Okay. So the the total loss taxes dollars by the city is roughly $3,000. Okay. I think Mr. Moore had her hand up first and then I'll go to Mr. Wilmont.

So I'll begin with where I agree with my colleague Mr. knock and I agree that option three with 100% increasing that by 20% we should absolutely do. I agree. However, where I respectfully disagree is that it is simply speculative to say that this impacts a minor group of people because we've never utilized the 75% 50% and 25%. And indeed, this may be a minor group of people to whom a 25% exemption could make a major difference. When you look at these income levels as you stretch them out from the 20% um 100% the the income levels are remarkably low. It's hard to understand how people sustain themselves. So, the ability for them to apply for a 25% exemption might be a possibility for them to buy food, to repair something, to pay their utility bills. And as I said at the last meeting, in the context of the city extending um 12-year tax freezes to develop develop developers in our community, I think it's absolutely imperative that we look to the interests of those economically least among us and extend these guidelines to those 75% 50% and 25% categories. Mr. Wilmont.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just have some questions about the mechanics of this, and members of the audience may understand it better than I do, but they might benefit from the clarification, too. So, if someone cannot afford to pay their taxes and they don't pay their taxes, uh, their house will be foreclosed. True.

And if their uh if their house is their only asset, that's a huge penalty. So, for instance, and this is where I need help with the mechanics, let's just take for example, their property, their annual property tax uh for their home here in Fitask is $5,000 and they can't afford to pay it because they've got nothing and they're tending they're potentially going to lose their home and their equity in their home. The 100% allowance gives the board of review the opportunity to wave that $5,000 property tax completely. 100%. That's what 100% means. Where I'm a little bit confused, and I I I think I understand the math, but let's say it's 50% reduction. Regardless of what the income level is, it's a 50% reduction. What that means is they have to come up with $2,500 or they're going to lose their home. So if they didn't have any money to start with, that doesn't help them. So the real point of this in terms of your practical experience uh sitting eight years on the board of review is to help people from losing everything most importantly the equity in their home from foreclosure. My question is does a percentage of that help?

Thank you Mr. Moore. The problem with that hypothetical is that it presumes everybody who comes before the board is going to lose their home. It may just be that financially they're challenged to pay the full amount. That would be another possibility of presentation. Mr. Now, child,

I I appre, you know, as I said at the last time, this is not about my lack of desire to try to help people at all. It it it isn't. There are so many people in need of of a of a hand and some help. There's not that that isn't the the issue here is that because of what you said, Charlie, the the penalty of non-payment of taxes is so severe, it's a lot different than not paying your doctor bill or or even your utility bill. um you lose you lose everything you have and and that part I I agree with. From my observations though is if you own a home, you're going to figure out how to pay for your taxes. You're you you just do it because it it hap it you you you don't want to lose your home. The the intent of the act is for those dire situations that you find yourself that you you you might have inherited your home from somebody and you have no money to pay for it. You're trying to figure out how to sell it. You're trying to figure out do whatever. You got sick. You got laid off. Those really dire things where it's literally no money to do it. as opposed to, hey, if I've got a a bank account of of $20,000 or 25 $20,000, I might be able to pay my it probably isn't $5,000 in tax. It's a lot less than that on the homes that it's related. I mean, a lot less than that. Um, and and you know, there's different ways to get money to pay your taxes. It just is when you literally don't have it is I want to help those people and and I think it ought to be and and the burden of this of four different categories I just think is is something that we don't need to do to just help people. I want to save their house. I don't want to just give them an extra $200 and and off on their taxes.

More. So given the economic challenges that a lot of folks are experiencing right now, it's unclear to me um what the downside is of offering these percentages that are less than 100%. Thus far, all I've heard is, you know, there could be some difficulty in calculating it. I have full confidence in our ability to calculate. And if somebody wants to explain to me what the downside of having this opportunity out there for folks who might qualify, I just guess I haven't heard that yet.

Anyone else wish to speak? Miss Walker.

Thanks, Mayor. So, um I believe that in the creation of a policy, it kind of creates a level playing field. Um I'm not passing a policy to help people. I'm passing a policy that's equitable and gives people opportunity to apply for um not having to pay their taxes and increments. If you qualify as 120% of the um poverty exemption or 100 and then the further subcategories, I think it's just going to open up a possibilities for people to consider applying if they qualify income-wise, if they don't have assets. Um and it's it's quite a laborious application in all honesty. any kind of subsidy from the government is is uh humbling and um requires you to divulge all your very personal information. And so people living below the poverty line um it's not something that you easily do and it's in times of crisis. So if there's an opportunity to help people at these different range levels, I am absolutely in favor of creating a level playing field where people are allowed to apply for these different um exemptions. Um, and I part of the packet that we were given, um, if for all of you that received the packet or looked online, there was also supplemental emails that were sent around Charloys and Bear Creek's policies for the poverty exemption rate. So, I'm hopeful that maybe we could consider um, combining number three and number two um, if that's part of the proposal on the table. I never considered 120% of the poverty level, but I like that idea. That also opens up the possibility for others to apply um in addition to the 75, 50, and 25%.

Any other discussion? Prior to allowing the public to weigh in, I'm going to ask if there's somebody wishes to make a motion of some sort. in regards to this matter. You ready for a motion? Mayor, if you raise your hand, say I want to. Yes, I'll make a motion. Please do.

I would suggest that we make this motion based on option three with the addition of the categories of 75% 50% and 25% calculated at the rates utilized by the city manager previously. And you can correct me if you if I get this wrong. Um, Mr. Horn, uh, 75% was at plus 5% off of 100%. 50% was at plus 10% off of 100%. And, um, the third category of 25% was an increase of 15% off of 100%. But since we're going off option number three, that 100% would be at the plus 20% listed there.

I'll second the motion. Clear or as clear as mud? Clear? I have a second from I have a motion from Miss Deore, a second from Miss Walker. Discussion council. Do you want us when I say us, I'm looking at Audrey. Do you want Audrey to go back down and recalculate this so you have that before you vote? I'd like to see that. You know what I'm asking? Yeah, that' be that'd be clarifying because once you add the 120%

trial run, if you trust my numbers, I would say it's a draft. The top was with um the numbers that the the top is with the numbers I just proposed. The second chart is um of what Charlotte Boy used Charlott boy used um in their proposal uh plus 2.5% plus 5% and plus 7.5% that's from the material that

um I'm sorry that's from the material that Sarah provided us and thank you Sarah very much for that and so the top one would be using the numbers that um city manager Horn used last time except they were calculated off the 120%. It says 100 but it's up 20. I'm sorry. Nope. Bottom one is I gave mine to I just wanted to be able to show you the contrast between the percentages that were used. So your motion was for the was for the bottom one. Top one. The top one.

Yes. Motion is for the top one. We have a motion from Mr. De Moore, second from Miss Walker. Any other discussion? Mr. Knobrop, I know I'm going to lose on this, obviously. Um, well, we don't know that yet, but Well, oh, yeah, I do. Very weird dynamic here. That's so weird. Um,

I appreciate how you're all trying to help everybody. But you're targeting the wrong area. There's so many more areas to do this in this town than people like this. But I hear what you're saying and you want to just get right. So that's fine.

Let me say I guess I haven't made any comments yet. Mr. Knob, I believe there's two areas that we can help people in other than just one area. and one being helping the people that in are in a home that own a home that need assistance. And especially when we're looking at these borderline numbers, I I don't know how in the heck a person can survive with the low income that we're talking about here to begin with. Number one, but number two, as you know, I'm all in on helping the homeless and working. I' I've spent time working and volunteering and stuff and as well as you. And I think we can do both. Helping those on the bottom edge as well as those that are actually in the the bottom of it all and are homeless. Okay. I commit to both of those.

Mr. Knob, I I hear you, Mayor. Um there just isn't that many people that actually are fall into this that I don't get it. It is people don't have homes. There's just not that many here and and I'm not understanding why you're wanting to do this. But but it's it's such a small small character and we're all feeling like we're feeling good about it. But it's but to that one person that makes a difference. They're not going to lose their home

to that. Well, you're saying that. But I know if you don't have any credit and you and you need to pay your taxes and you have no money, the bank is not going to loan you money to bail you out if you haven't any funds. This is a way of helping those on the very margin that could fall into the to the homeless to keep them in their homes and to supply them with what little support we can for such a little amount of money from the from the taxpayers. And I got to believe that and I support the motion and I feel if we help I don't care if we help one person knew it it will change somebody's life and that's to me that's that's all worth all going on. Miss Walker.

Thank you. Mayor and Joe I agree with you but these things are not mutually exclusive. Just because we're we're doing this and we're setting a template for a scaled poverty exemption for paying taxes does not mean that we cannot continue to do work to address other incomes. This will help people stay in their homes. Creating opportunities for young people and people in our community to to transfer from rental to home ownership is a whole another conversation and I don't believe they are mutually exclusive. so that we could do one and the same. And and talking about the cost of of home ownership in Bataski, it's becoming more and more challenging to be able to buy a home um and attract young young families here to consider the joys of home ownership. I know that there's a home on EMTT Street right now for sale, less square footage than my home and about 685 square ft listed for $239,000. I couldn't afford to live there. I don't know what brand of income could afford to live in 625 street feet, you know, 625 ft of square feet on EMTT Street at $239,000. I and I believe that home ownership is becoming more and more restricted in our community. and I'm invested in trying to figure out a way to get people from rentals into homes. So, and I don't think they're mutilated.

So, Walmart. So, if I apply for an exemption from my property tax because I'm in dire circumstances and you tell me that we're not going to exempt you entirely, but we'll give you a $250 discount. I'm just not clear on what the benefit of that is. Um I, you know, I would like to propose an alternative and we're we're dealing with your motion. I understand that. But looking at these numbers, you know, I know that most of the uh municipalities around us seem to go with a 20% above the federal poverty limit. Just keep it clean and simple. But I look at these numbers and and I would go ahead and raise it up to the 25% and just keep it simple. That would allow other people to apply if they feel that they are marginal in their circumstances, but keep it simple. Th this number for you know these numbers for uh 25%. I I don't understand how people live on these numbers either. So, so I, you know, I would like to keep it simple. I don't see the benefit of the gradations, but uh that's just a thought.

Mr. more.

Well, to the extent um any of us still consider our legislature to be good thinkers, this is a part of the Michigan statute that this is an option to use just 100% or the four categories of the material that Sarah provided us. There were 10 Northern Michigan jurisdictions surveyed. all but one of those Northern Michigan jurisdictions offered partial exemptions or were proposing to do so. Again, I I'm one that says we shouldn't do what we do based on other communities, but that's what's there. Uh six of 10 of those offer the 100% exemption at over the federal limit. I just don't see the downside. I have full confidence in our border review folks who are very talented and committed volunteers here to be able to calculate these four categories. I don't think that's a drawback and I can't project who might be able to benefit in each one of these categories but once again don't see the downside of offering them.

One option one option is is to try this for one year. it'll come back to us in a year and we can take a look at it and go we're off base completely with this or we extend it. I think it would behoove us to do one year of trying this scale. See where it goes. See if those people that were rejected from receiving the exemption that were this close get something in in in in assistance. So um Anybody else? Mr. Nabrop, do you have something to say? Do we know what the average income is for a Paskki resident?

I don't. I was thinking it was in the $50,000 range. It's over 50,000. It is for for It is a skewed. I think it's 57 as I recall. There's such a scale you'd have to have a median. Understand? The average median income for EMTT County is closer to $75,000. 76 75. Yes. Yes. So, any other discussion? Public wish to weigh in on this? You have come up, give us your full name, and you'll have time to speak to council regarding this matter before we vote on it. Does anybody wish to speak to councel online? Does anybody wish to speak to council?

No. I go to Miss Beck, our city clerk, for role on this. Deore I Walker I Wilmont I have a quick question. Sorry about that. But the one-year trial period does this come back annually anyway? It does. Yes. I n Travis Murphy I motion passes 4 to one. Can I just say for the record, mayor, that I certainly defer to our financial person's calculations of the plus five, plus 10 and plus 15% to the extent I have made any errors. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, four more um items on the agenda before we go to close session. Just to remind people before as you're sitting there after we do these four issues, there will be a close session. City council will I will take a motion in a second. We will be going into close session uh to consult with our con our attorney on privilege matters revol involving the city of Paskki. Next is the adoption of proposed resolution authorizing contracting with Gordon Construction Services Portland, Michigan for Winter Sports Park Pavilion project. I'm going to turn it over to city manager Horn.

Thank you, Mayor. So, this has been obviously on our plate for a number of years. Uh even predates predates me um this project. So, we've talked about it uh at many different points um in our public meetings. We have gone through the process. Back in um back in October, we we put bids out for this project. This is a this is a pavilion project, a structure that would be built over a uh um a rink, an all-purpose rink, if you will, that would be used in the wintertime for hockey purposes. And in the off uh the summer, fall months, we would be doing recreation programming. There could be community events. Uh any number of things could happen underneath this uh pavilion, if you will. But the the main focus is what we're talking about this evening is the pavilion andor any sort of uh chiller component that might be associated with this project. So, we did go through the bid process. We feel like we've gotten some pretty attractive I mean they're they're large numbers obviously and we knew they would be but we feel like they're u in the ballpark of our engineers estimate. We feel like we've got some contractors here that we've done business with in the past that are very responsive and responsible. Um really what it boils down to tonight for for city council is some some fundamental questions I guess is do we want to proceed with this project? Where is city council at from a pavilion standpoint from a a chilled surface standpoint? Uh from um from the standpoint of everything that you've gleaned over the last few years. um the

concepts that have been shared over time. Um where where is city council at? There's I ran through some scenarios just just for I guess fun if you will. Um there's many different ways you could maneuver this. Um I just came up with five options just sitting in my office today where you could do one piece of it but not the other. You could mix and match components. Um, so Kendall, our parks and rec recreation director is here. Uh, Tim Kudson from Beckin and Raider is here. Um, I believe our contractor, our low bid contractor is here from Gordon Construction Services.

So, we're here to be a resource to you to help you make some uh decisions on how you would like uh to proceed with this project um in any form or fashion. Um, so I guess we'll have Kendall if you want to come up to the podium and be available. We'll turn it over to city council for questions. I'll start with somebody questions. If we did not do the chiller,

what impact would that have on on the current number of days that it can be used versus having the, you know, it is is having the chiller going to have or the Yeah, having the chiller going to make a substantial increase in number of days that we can um skate I believe it will. Um, you know, we're the last several years, with the exception of, you know, this year and and and last year, we had a number of years where the rink was hardly open. Um, with a chiller system, you aren't nearly as dependent on the weather. um with a pavilion over the top of it, you're you are you have the ability to block out some of the elements, the sun, the rain, the the snow.

So, um this is also the the I guess best practice in terms of having an outdoor chiller system is is based on the conversations we've had with um re uh contractors. you know, the best practice is to do is to have a chiller system with a rink over the top of it. So, I feel that the um you know, this project as a whole would certainly extend our season, provide us with a a lot more winter season, that is provide us with a lot more um reliability in terms of of keeping the keeping the winter sports park open. Um, we we were open this year over uh Christmas break, which is always our goal. Um, you know, this would certainly allow us to at least have an element of the of the park open uh prior to that. Um, and and also in the kind of the shoulder season, the February, March. Um,

just one other quick question. I if if you if you had to if you did the chiller, it's it from way I'm understanding it, you basically got to do the whole darn thing. You got to have the top, you got to have the cover, right? You got the sun, the snow, and all that stuff coming down. It it kind of again a little bit.

I I that's best practice. Okay. When I was the director in Portage, we had an outdoor we had an out chilled outdoor system. Um, we had about the same amount of maintenance on that as we do right now with without a chiller system and trying to make the the facility usable. Um, in addition to that, without a without a cover on top, the compressor is going to constantly run when you get those warmer weather. So, you're going to have a higher utility cost. So, does that answer your question?

It sounds like if you're going to do the chiller, you better do the the pavilion, too. You're not That would be my recommendation. Then it isn't necessarily as critical to do the whole project.

That would be my recommendation. again, uh, city manager Horn has come up with different scenarios, um, you know, that that that could include, um, you know, anything from doing nothing to to doing everything. I think the trade-off there, uh, council member, is like days like today without a cover over that, it it would be hard for us to keep snow off of it. So, we'll be brooming it constantly uh, to make it usable. Um certainly I think you can you can still have a chilled surface without a cover places. Portage did did that. Uh other communities do that. I think I guess the trade-off that you you would need to accept is there your utility cost would be much higher. Um but you know the cost of a chiller is is pretty expensive. Uh and the cost of a cover is fairly expensive. So I guess you just weigh that out. Miss Walker.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, so the the item at hand right now is in regards to the pavilion. So, in terms of the order of things, we're talking about approval of the pavilion. We've identified where that money would be coming from. So, the $849,000 that's been raised by um through grants and donations, the $840,000 I would assume some of this has to do with the Rotary fund, the fundraising mechanism. And also noted is that the 840,000 that's been that's been fundraised was originally because I remember when that thermometer was down at the Winter Sports Park, which has since been taken down. Um the thermometer had like a goal of like 1.4 million or 1.2 2 million and obviously organizations do the best they can to do their fundraising and fundraising and so the amount that they were a that we collectively were able to fund raise was $840,000. Now the remaining balance of $880,000 is to be funded through the city's $4.7 million unrestricted fund balance which is usually held in reserves for any kind of emergency. Um so that being said the remaining balance in that would be somewhere around like 300 and $388 million remaining in the fund balance, assuming also that we're going to get some reimbursements back from the federal government or state government for our storm, our ice storm. Um, but not to mix the water. So, it's pretty clear like how the money is going to be allotted or paid for here with the chiller system. I with the documents that we were presented, it doesn't really tell me where the money's coming from. So then of course I go to the capital improvement plan um and we do have allotted for 2026 um capital improvement plan winter sports park of $2.9 million. So can I

assume that that would be that would pay for the chiller system or where exactly is would the money be coming from for the chiller system? Yeah, that that would be a planned use of fund balance if as well as well. Yes, correct. Thank you. So, so for the fun originally this project started I was around here it was going to be believe it or not

I've been here a long time it started out it was going to be 1.4 4 million with no chiller and we were just going to have the pavilion and uh a lot of us got into this thing of well we should get a chiller as well and that would that would be great and it sounds great but when I look at the cost now getting up to uh 1.7 over 1.7 million for the for the constru for this construction that leaves us 888 $8880,000. Then if you take the chiller at 1.6 million, now we're looking at 2.4 million coming out of out of fund our fund balance. And that means that it's going to cut more than half of what we have for for our our backup. I'm in support of the pavilion for this reason. It's a four season piece. It allows us to have activities going on throughout the year in that facility that otherwise couldn't happen because of weather. Uh we're talking of weddings. We're talking of broom ball. We're talking of uh summer day camp. We're talking of many uses that that place can be utilized for. Small concerts. Uh the farmers market. And I and I'm sure if we all took a piece of paper, there's we could come up with a hundred things that that place could and might possibly use for for other than just skating. Because I looked at this as a four season piece and that that was why I really supported the pavilion was it was going to be a four seasonal thing, not just a skating thing. I think

with this construction of uh the we put in 800 to put in a million dollars basically to get the thing covered utilizing the grants as well as us putting in a million dollars of our fund equity. I'm more comfortable doing that than to take out an initial another 1.6 million for the chiller. Chiller sounds great. I just think that um with the situation of having to go sooner or later for a parks millage with people and asking them to come up and belly up to the table with a little more to improve our other park pieces. I believe we should have a rope toe at the winter sports park if not one for skiing but I think possibly a second portable one that we talked about for the sledding hill. I think we can do those things and look at those things and possibly take maybe a little fund balance that we have to support that activity as well and making some improvements, small improvements in our local parks, our neighborhood parks, not a whole overhaul, a playground area piece, uh a walking trail through uh through Curtis Park, some small objects, and I really feel I will support us putting a pavilion in because I think that would enlengthen the ski the skating piece of it, but it would also provide us with many opportunities more than just what we have now for general group activities. Um, so that's my stand on this one right now. Mr. Wont, I've given this some thought and organized my thoughts here in writing so it's probably easier. Pardon me. I like to be extemporaneous most of the time, but allow me if you would to read this quickly. For the record, I support both resolutions. One for the construction of the all-season pavilion, and two, for the addition of a refrigeration system.

Winter Sports Park has provided fond memories to generations of Pascians for over 125 years. It's one of our city's uniquely glorious outdoor parks and a major contributor to the city's enviable brand, culture, and economy. Yet, this wonderful asset badly needs new love and investment. Yes, we've recently fixed the roof and windows on the warming house, but much more needs to be done. One of the park's most prized features, the lower skating rink, aka the hockey rink, is also uh particularly rough condition after three decades of wear and tear. Uh repairs and improvements to the lower rink have been discussed, debated, and argued for the better part of 10 years. Through the generosity of royalty uh uh uh Rotary, the Shaw family, and other citizens and organizations contributing to the Friends of Winter Sports Park, over $800,000 was raised specifically to upgrade the rink and add a pavilion cover to better protect it from the main enemies of natural ice, the sun, the snow, and warmer temperatures. To me, the fundraising success of the Friends of Winter Sports Park is a huge indication of the community support for this project. In addition, while this fall's winter sports park master plan survey did not include the pavilion project in particular, nearly 400 city residents completed the survey and improvement of the skating facilities and addition of refrigeration were among the strongest and most frequently mentioned priorities. There's little doubt in my mind that the public support for completing this project is very strong. Uh uh I want to point out that while the $800,000 raised might have been nearly enough to cover the entire proposed project at the time, inflation and the passage of nearly a decade since has resulted in the new cost estimates being about twice the original amount. On the flip side, during that same period, city revenues from property taxes have

increased 20% or more. Thanks largely to the leadership of our mayor and city council over the last decade and the high quality of our city's management team uh and including challenges like the pandemic, rising lakewaters, and a crippling ice storm. Paskki is today in a very strong and enviable financial position with over 4.5 million uncommitted in the general fund. 2.5 million to pay for the gap in funding for this project will take a big chunk out of our savings, but we can afford it and without with further delay, the gap will only increase. I also believe that the best value for taxpayers is to do the pavilion and refrigeration system at the same time. Based on my personal experience with the Paskki Curling Club, of which I'm a proud member, I can say that with confidence that natural ice, even covered to protect it from sun, snow, and wind, can be expected to provide only a short 4 to six week skating season, maybe 6 to 8 weeks if you don't mind skating in puddles. However, a refrigeration system will virtually guarantee a full 20we season or more uh throughout the winter. The staple is interfering. Sorry. Refrigeration provides a massive improvement in utilization of the facility and corresponding enjoyment of the community. I do not support shortcut alternatives like just updating the current rink or phasing construction by doing refrigeration at a later date. For those who feel that uh that there are other more important priorities for repair and improvement at Winter Sports Park, I don't disagree. But A, we're not addressing those projects tonight. And B, we have 800,000 plus committed specifically to this project, much of which will expire and disappear this

year if we fail to take action. In summary, it's a long past time to get this done. I favor both resolutions. failing support for both. I would support removing the lower rink permanently. I look forward to further discussion of other priority projects in Winter Sports Park and throughout our park system in the weeks and months ahead. In addition, in the event of approval of both resolutions, I support the city creating a comprehensive plan for user fees, for special events and non-residents, and an operating plan for how the new facility will be shared by all interested parties, clubs, and organizations in the community both in winter and summer. Thank you.

Anyone else? Mr. Miss M Miss Walker, I do have a question. Mayor um Kendall, is it possible to like lay the conduit for a refrigeration system while the pavilion so passes? Is it possible to lay the conduit for like a future refrigeration system retrofit? Yes, that is an option. How much would that cost out of the out of the 1.6 million? How much would you have to pay outlay for the for the piping? Uh I believe the piping the piping with the floor would be 545,000. So the machine the basic machine operation is is a million.

So the piping is 545. The chiller components are 7 7 whatever that difference is between what is that 755 um to make up to 1.3. So that's how that 1.3 breaks down. So, if you just wanted to do the the floor with the piping, the glycol system ready to accept a chiller in another phase, it would be 545,000 versus 1.3 upfront. Thank you.

So, if you outlay both of those, we'd have to vote on spending 1.4 million um Uh 1.42 million. Uh um 880,545,000 is uh 1425. No, you give me you give me the numbers. So the pavilion is 880,000 short plus the 880 plus the plus the 840. So

we have Yeah. So if you the total cost for the for the pavilion right now coming on a general fund is 1.7 you have 849,000 collected that difference is 880,000. Yes. Mhm. And then you add to do the piping 1.3

is another just the piping alone is 550,000 round 550. So 880,000 is is 1.45 million. So, that's putting the piping in the ground and waiting and trying to decide where you're going to come up with the next the other million dollars for the for the uh the power plant basically for it. So, where do we get that? So, we go and we put that in. We spend 1.4 million of our we put we spent 1.4 of our 4.6 million to to do this. How long does that sit before we end up having somebody come up with a million dollars to to put the the power system in for the thing? Because the total cost really is 1.6 million for the for the for the rink installation for chilling. So, one option that we learned recently was if if we wanted to do the pavilion, we wanted to do the floor with piping only. There they they do lease or rent chillers for the season um to essentially buy us some time before we're ready to bite that next chunk off. So, we could do we could consider that while we're in that mode of um uh getting resources to complete the the chiller project, we could lease or rent a chiller component for a season or two to

How much is that? I don't know what the cost was. I don't think it get that far. I don't think we made it that far in that discussion that what is the maintenance cost? What is the cost of energy to run this compressor if we did have this? What would be the monthly cost in the winter time? and the odds on the on the ends as well.

Well, it's that's a lot of variables in that question. You know, it could be a couple thousand dollars a month. Um, you know, the more the the warmer it is, the the more it runs, it does it does um how the compressors work is there's a basically a temperature gauge that measures the the temperature of the ice surface. Uh, so you know, the warmer it is, the more that com the the compressor is going to run. Obviously, when it's colder, it won't run nearly as much, but I I think it would, you know, it it could be a couple thousand dollars a month.

At least, I would think, you know, uh, Mr. more.

So like my colleague beside me on matters of import, I prepare a written statement so I don't miss anything. So I will read that to you now. The journey to where we find ourselves tonight began on February 15, 2021 when this city council before my tenure approved submitting a grant request for $300,000, which was half of the stated $600,000 project cost for the Winter Sports Park pavilion at that time. The required $300 $300,000 match for the grant was pledged from Rotary and other community fundraising. So at that time at inception, the city committed zero taxpayer dollars to the $600,000 project. That was the originating ask for the pavilion project. Fast forward to the matters before us today. City Council is being asked to allocate approximately $880,000 for the construction of what is now a $1.72 million pavilion along with a $1.59 million for a chiller system for a total of about $2.5 million as an extra budgetary expense using taxpayer dollars held in the city's fund balance. This represents 53% of the $4.7 million fund balance. And as just was mentioned, a remaining significant unknown is the downstream costs of operation to city taxpayers. One commonality in all the input I've

received on the winter sports park is that is uniquely valuable community gem. I agree. But projects and community needs and desires evolve over time, requiring a fresh look. Consideration of a $600,000 project with zero commitment of city funds is completely different than a $2.5 million project funded by taxpayer dollars before us today. While I genuinely respect, and I say this looking right at Mr. Clingel Smith and others in the audience, the efforts of all involved in this project to date, for the following reasons, respectfully, I will not vote to move these two proposals forward. For the following reasons. First, as a fiduciary of taxpayer funds, I believe that fund balance should be used conservatively and reserved for essential and emergency needs of the city, not wants. As an example of a need, the city expended more than a million dollars as a result of last year's unexpected ice storm, some of which, as my colleague indicated, we hope will be reimbursed by the federal government. Secondly, I believe that this large of an expenditure for a want should be decided by residents at the ballot box. Residents were surveyed regarding their wants for the winter sports park, but the pavilion was not included in that outreach. People may have independently offered comments, but we were not asked to comment on the pavilion. As a result, we have no context for how this project

and associated expenditures would be prioritized by the community among other winter sports park and other communitywide possibilities. Given that the pavilion project should not be singularly prioritized and advanced for funding by this council from taxpayer dollars held in fund balance or what my folks used to call a rainy day fund. Thank you for your consideration of my input. I appreciate it. Mr. Knob, um that was very good, Tina, by the way.

Thank you. Um, I I tend to have a lot of agreement with with what you also said, Charlie. I I you know, I don't have all the history that you guys have in in the winter this whole thing. I I really don't. You know, I've also been a proponent that we have a strong fund balance and I do think we need to spend that down a little bit and use it. I'm having a hard time prioritizing this two and a half million with all the other things that we we we spent through in the the capital improvements plan that there was a whole bunch of things there that I really think would be great for this city and if I remember right the bogey down at the end was like like 30 million of unfunded I don't remember the exact amount

yeah the unfunded project

the unfunded project 30 or 40 27 million and that is that also is if if I had to choose, I'd have a hard time saying two and a half for this without revisiting all these other things that I think is really good. Um, and I think I agree with Tina a lot that we ought to bring this to the vote. We ought to go ahead and do a consider a a millillage and and let the people talk and and decide themselves. So, I tend to lean toward Tina's position at this point. I tend to lean towards not doing the chiller. The 1.6 million I think is too much. I am in favor of taking 880,000 out of our fund equity. We have 4.6. We should be getting some back this year uh from uh anyway I I I support $880,000 which is under a million of our 4.6 to utilize that to get this pavilion done. I feel it's a three fourseason piece. I think it's a benefit to the city. I think it will extend skating. It'll keep the rain off. It'll keep the which is always crit cri crippling. It'll also keep the snow off. I believe that at this point that would be what I would I I I feel supportive and moving towards that that motion. I believe like you say we do have some good fund balance. We could have another ice storm that could take us out for $2.5 million. I'd hate to see us spend two and a half and then have something come along and now we're at zero in the bank account. But I do feel Mr. Knob I think $880,000

is a doable number to get this thing over the finish line since we do have $849,000. I think that's good money and there's no reason to lose it and to spend $888,000 would be a benefit to the city. Mr. Knock financially I agree with you u John a a lot because we do have that fund where I'm I don't have all that history and we have people that have donated to this it seemed like we have some responsibility to do it so I'm okay with that proposal too you are okay with that one okay Mr. more.

Yeah, I I would just say as a counterpoint to your comments, mayor, that the director just a bit ago is recommending that it's best practice to do both. So, that's problematical to me here. I mean, I've already stated how I'm moving forward. Yeah. But when your director is saying that's best practice, and frankly, I've heard that from other folks in the community as well, that best practice would be to do both. So give me a little second.

Um, best practice is great if you can afford Best Practice is great if you can afford it. Yeah, if you can afford it, I think I think go for it all. I just think that we I'm fiscally conservative in a lot of matters when it comes to city funding over the last 10 years. I think that this is a area where we expend some to make it happen, but we don't spend our whole wad of money on on on the ice piece of it at this point. So, Miss Walker,

uh, Mayor, I I guess I I don't believe that it has to be all or nothing either. And I'm wondering if we decide to make a motion to approve the pavilion piece this evening, which is what's on the table first. Um, if we can choose to table the second portion or uh table the second portion. I like that idea. That would allow some hard numbers to see if it if that's

that would allow us to come back and to revisit at the next meeting or two the facts of the chiller piece of it. Maybe somebody calls up and says, "I'm going to give you a million dollar 1.5 million tomorrow." tomorrow, you know, yes, we'll take it. But I think I think it would behoove us to and I think that's a great idea. I I support that of saying yes to the first piece, funding the 880,000 out of our fund equity, tableabling the next piece, which we'll be talking about the chiller for the rink. Mr. Wilmont.

Um, with all due respect, if accommodations are not made for the chiller, you're not going to get the skating season that you would like to have or that you certainly could have with a chiller. Yeah.

Um it's a difference honestly between a month and a half uh of skating uh and a full 20we season which for members of our community that are serious about skating or uh ice dancing or whatever the case might be. That full 20we season is absolutely key and crucial. My fear is that if we vote in favor of the pavilion by itself, tableabling the further discussion for the chiller system is that the chiller system will not be approved and it is not something that you can put in later.

Thank these are two separate motions that would be taken under under right now technically where you're talking about the winter sports park agreement with Gordon Construction. The other emotion would be discussing the chiller. So, they can be voted on separately and actually they would be voted on separately. I understand they'll be voted on separately. But if if if no accommodation I I if if we approve the pavilion and table the chiller,

then the likelihood is that we will not approve any kind of uh motion that will take us in the direction of chill dice and and and a full season. I think that would remain on the table for discussion and seeing what evidence and stuff comes forward on funds as well as the availability of what's what's out there. Mr. Knobro, I just have a practical question. Do we have any um bitter deadlines on both proposals that we got to decide? I'll ask the city manager on that one.

Um I will say and I give give credit to Gordon Construction. They they've really tried to hold pricing. They we've extended beyond their comfort level to hold pricing. So they have um added a slight increase in in metal cost that they passed on to us. This was just happened Friday afternoon. So there was a about a $60,000 uh additional cost because we've extended beyond um the 60-day time period. So, it's 178 1.7 million.

It's just shy of 1.8, right? Okay. So, it's 60,000 increase right now. Yeah. So, the the updated bid amount is $1,784,465. And how long do they have will that hold? Did they say I mean they must have given you a whole year. We can ask them. Three months, three years. It's it depends on the steel supplier, but I mean you look you can see from 2020 it went from 300 or 600,000. I mean construction just going nuts. So it's Are you doesn't go down. It only

Are you in a two week hold? Are we in a twoe hold with this with you? Um I'm sure we can do two weeks. Yes. The deadline was December the 1st. So you you're willing to do a two week hold on on city giving you the heads up on this. Okay.

I personally am supportive of moving forward with the construction and discussing tableabling if you wish uh the chill piece. So the other piece of this and I don't want to keep adding more things to this but as as part of the the serve ice proposal which is our chiller manufacturer they they had and correct me Tim if I got have this incorrect the cost for the the boards and glass are are we got used back in 1990 92

92. So, there is a cost that was involved in the um serve ice proposal um to to replace to add new boards and uh and glass at $240,000. So, so, so that's on top of So, that's not in that's not in one of these bid obviously that was in the other one, but I just wanted to throw out there that we could we could put back what's there. Um, I don't recommend that. Um, but I'm just throwing ideas out.

I looked at what's there and that needs to be replaced. Period. It it needs to be replaced. So what you're saying is if what we have from Gordon at 1.78 added to what would complete the rink so that the rinks that have the boards and are complete ready to go. Yeah. So you'd have the 1.78465. You'd have the 139,450 for the rank floor and then 240,000 for the boards and glass. I thought wasn't

him. Didn't we already didn't we already on it says attached uh let's see add alternative 1A including uh both the cement unit retaining walls concrete uh page 51 know what that is Tim you want to come up that that was for that was for seating which is which was not included in that bit

the bleachers right So what is the total cost if we don't put the chiller in? What is the total cost of this project for the construction with Gordon and bleachers and the what else? And you No, he's he mentioned the the boards. The the boards and glass. Yeah. The boards and glass. Boards, glass, and Gordon Construction. What is the total of that, please? I wish I thought we were going to I thought that was part of this whole package. It

is. But but if I see you, it's in the chiller. You put you put in it's in the next um put that in the chiller part rather than the construction of the Okay. So move that over to the construction of the pavilion. And how much money is it now?

Where's my number at? Tim, did you have something you needed to correct? Did you have something you needed to correct? You had your hand raised. This This is the question. We have Gordon's number here. Okay. And that does not include for somebody to get on and skate. It's the pavilions's built. Everything is built. What else has to be added? You say boards and glass.

Yeah, the this the rink boards and the glass, right? Yeah. 140,000 there. There are the pavilion and the associated site improvements. Excuse me. Which isn't just the pavilion. Um it's on. So, we broke this into three components. The pavilion and site improvements were 1.72 million. The chiller floor was 1.3 million and the new boards were 240,000. So the boards and glass are basically 240,000. Correct. Yes, sir.

So if you don't do the chiller and you want to put in new boards, etc., you're basically looking at 1.2 02 million 2.02 million for the total construction and the boards and the glass, the floor and the pavilion at 2.2 million two 2.02. So $2 million basically on on the nose to do that. I don't know.

Why not? So the total would be for the the updated pavilion cost the rink floor with no piping or chiller, right? And the rink boards and glass would be 2,163,915. 2, what? 2,163915. Then less minus 840 um would be 1,323915 1 1.3 million but that does not include um risers correct? No.

Yeah. None of that. The risers weren't included in any of that. Right. So, we're no longer talking about $880,000. I Mr. Mr.

You know, this is not in our budget. We we we carved it out. We're in our in our existing budget. We are spending down some some of the fund ball. This is beginning to feel uncomfortable to me. It's I'm not sure we have complete unified community support on this. I'm just not I don't from what I'm I've had some feedback that doesn't provide all the support. So I I am I'm really struggling with the background on this stuff, but I I'm now getting uncomfortable that this is starting to rise and rise that it's it's should we how could we do a millillage? Why can't we just go that way with this? Or are we going to risk Are we going to lose the 840? Lose the

You're going to lose your grant funds. Uh grant fund is a 300 and some. Yes. Yeah. And then the Rotary is what are they going to do with their money? I don't know. And they redeploy it into Who knows? Who knows? Okay. They're not here to speak. So So we're now talking 1.3 million of of tax of of our fund balance.

Fund balance. 1.3 million is what we would be discussing to put this back in place. The rink would be up to snuff. The boards, the glass, the cement on the flooring, everything would be there. Sewer runs for the water runoff. Uh, all that would be there along with the pavilion for the tax dollars to put in $1.3 million out of our fund balance. Council, do you wish to discuss the 1.3 million? I know Miss Deore, you've spoken. I know Mr. Wilmont, you've spoken. Do any of you wish to speak speak more? Miss Walker, please.

I'm in favor of portioning them out and voting for one at a time and then having a discussion on the next um topic. Mr. Chop. I'm just getting uncomfortable with how this is escalating. Well, I think we've I think we've scratched to the to the bone what the numbers are at this point at 1.3 coming out of out of out of fund budget out of fund balance.

Miss Walker. So, mayor, if somebody was to make a motion and take action, it would be the action and the motion, the resolution on the back has very specific numbers tied to it. But what we just discussed is something very different. So, I don't know how you make a motion to pass a resolution that doesn't have firm numbers that are in print. Well, I think just amending the resolution. What you would do is the 1.7 would be changed to 1.78. What is the number for page 48? Could you give me the exact numbers 48? 1,784,465

78 and the right here 1,784,465 and the number uh of fund balance the 840 is the same. Yeah. So the remaining balance would be roughly what did we say 1.3 mil yes 1.323 1.323 1.323 9:15 9:15 So that's what Yeah. Yeah.

So do you want those numbers just for the sake of having them on your paper? Yes. Okay. I can pass mine over to you if you wish to see the exact numbers that are totals. I want to see them from Audrey. No problem. This is just an interesting observation. You know, we have five members of of council. Three very different feelings. One, all for it, let's go. One, let's don't do it. Put it into a millage and do it. One kind of a compromise. and I'm and I'm just not feeling like we're all in sync on this and I'm it's just weird. It feels a little uncomfortable.

I don't have a that's welcome welcome to council. Welcome to Paskki City Council. Let me tell you there are more often there are many times where there are 32 votes, 41 votes, 50 votes, 05 votes. There's been everything across the board that I have witnessed and been a part of here. So, you know, um,

Miss Walker, I know you're not going to be here. You told me next two weeks from now you're gone. Will not be here on the February the 2nd meeting. That's correct.

Mean city council will not be a full council. I anytime we discuss this stuff that is this important with the city. I at all times possible feel it's important to have five people sitting up here making the decision. Not three, not two. I I just totally support the whole council being here. I think we've done this before. There's been times I've been gone with medical or something. There's been time other people have gone uh with with work. Tina, uh everybody's missed some time and we've I've always tried to schedule it so that five people are here because I think you represent oneif of the city of of one quarter you guys do and it's important that way. Um, can I ask um Mr. Gordon represent? Not Mr. Gordon, are you?

No. Mr. Rasmmanson. Mr. Rasmmanson, would you be willing to work with us and give us four weeks from today? And Terry, the owner of Gord Construction Services on the meeting. I was just looking at the email from the steel supplier and they were struggling. to to hold it for much longer. I think he would be able to speak better. He said he was muted. He couldn't couldn't get in. I don't know if Terry, if you're still on, if you want to in I think the bottom one. Tour. There's Oh, not the other Terry. Terry or Tourd? Tour, I think.

Oh, you said Terry. Good evening. Can you guys hear me? Yes. I take that you've listened to this discussion. Yeah. Yeah. I've been listening and following along. Absolutely.

City council has I'm not sure if this is going to be needed by this city council or not. Are you flexible or stringent enough to keep our price where it is for for four weeks? So Tyler kind of alluded to it. So the what we're up against is it's the steel numbers and some of the electricians numbers as well as far as supply for any of the aluminum components that they had or copper components. So from our side, there's no issue per se with direct costs that are ours, but we don't have control necessarily over the steel. The steel is the big one. That was 50 of this 60k approximately that that it went up. So that that's what we're up against. It, you know, they've been trying to hold it, trying to hold it. It could they hold it potentially for a month? Maybe, but I can't say that with any certainty because they're not it's not us. It's not in house. I can certainly follow up with them tomorrow and ask, but I can't stay here tonight and tell you definitively that they that they can or they can't.

Okay. Unfortunately. Yes, understandable. But I thought I should get all the information that we can to make decisions. I thank you for your input. Yeah. Sorry, I couldn't give you more, but thank you for for having us. Thank you, Mr. Moore. So, just for clarity, I'm not understanding the need for delay. We're all five here tonight. I don't know if someone wants to make a motion. If so, we can have a vote on that motion. And if there's no motion, um, so I'm just looking for clarity why we would be thinking about a delay. Mr. Knockrop, sorry, Mr. Wilma.

Uh, I just wanted to point out that Services, they sent us two proposals. The first proposal was for the 1.3 for the entire uh, chiller system. I I assume also the boards and the glass and so forth. That proposal expired on January 15th. The second proposal that they've sent us uh for the partial or the uh uh piping in in the flooring is good until February 15th. So you're dealing with not only escalations on the Gordon, you're going to be dealing with escalations on the Servis as well. Thank you. Well, I guess after all of this discussion, I guess I asked if there's a motion. If not, we'll move on, but I'm asking if there's a motion. Miss Walker. Okay, let me try this. Uh, I propose I make a motion to adopt the proposed resolution to award the contract to Gordon Construction Services for the construction of the Winter Sports Park Pavilion and authorize the city manager as designate to serve as the city's representative for this project. The resolution, as stated in the back of this agenda, would be contracting with Gordon Services out of Portland, Michigan in the amount of 1 million784,650 to complete winter sports park pavilion project with approximately $840,000 from grants and donations with the remaining balance of approximately

1.323 million coming from the general fund unrestricted fund balance. I have a second Yes, there isn't a second. We'll move on the next agenda. Huh? Pardon?

Motion dies. Motion dies. We move on to second uh discussion. That's the winter sports park outdoor chiller rink installation. Anyone wish to discuss this or make a motion on this one? Well, I'll follow through by making a motion to uh adopt the resolution as stated in the uh in the agenda for acceptance of the bid on the chiller system. Um but rather than restate it entirely for the record,

do I have a second for that motion? We do not have a second for that motion.

Move on to the next the adoption of proposed resolution and authorize the contract with Spawn Ranch Incorporated California for design and building and construct services of the Riverbend skate park. I turn it over to to city prompt. and rep director Klingman this morning.

All right. Well, let's try this one here. This one is uh is identified in our capital improvement plan. Uh recently I put out an RFQ. Uh this is a design build project for the riverbend replacement of the existing Riverbend uh skate park equipment. We put out an RFQ um uh towards the end of the year. We interviewed uh several design build um consultants and uh went through a a a series of of um scoring criteria uh that included members of the skateboard community. So, we have identified the the Spoon Ranch as the as the design build uh contractor to um assist us with the process of of engaging with our uh wheeled community, wheeled enthusiasts as they like to be called to come up with a replacement plan for the um Riverbend uh skate park. Did we have a grant for that? Did you receive a grant?

We did not receive the grant. Oh, I thought we had a $300,000 grant. No, no, we did not receive that one, unfortunately. Oh, Miss Walker. Um, I would be happy to make a motion if there's no more discussion. Well, you make a motion, then we discuss. Okay. I'd be happy to make a motion um that city council adopt the proposed resolution authorizing to contract with Spoon Ranch Incorporated out of California for the design and build of services for Riverbend skate park support. Any other discussion? Council, Miss Walk, Miss Deore.

Um just confirming with the city manager that our um city attorney has had an opportunity to review the legal agreement. Yes, our city attorney has reviewed. She provided feedback, comments that were that are part of this current agreement in front of you. Thank you. Public wish to weigh in on this. There being none, I go to Miss Beck for roll. Walker, I Wilmont. I Murphy.

Yes. I passes 5 Z. Next is the uh adoption of proposed resolution authorizing contracting with Blackberry Window and Door Systems of Kazoo for historic window assessment and rehabilitation of Carnegie B. I turn it over to city manager Horn for discussions.

Thank you, mayor. So, as you know, we received a $100,000 Eagle community energy management grant for the Carnegie building that includes a level two assessment looking at the energy performance of the building. A a window repair strategy, which looks at um assessing, maintaining, and rehabbing the historic windows within the Carnegie building itself. And then also community engagement and communications piece of this grant as well. So, we did send out um released a request for proposals. Um we received proposals on December 2nd of this year. Unfortunately, we only received one proposal. Um I have um talked with the contractor. I have talked with the um references that were provided um and all had very um glowing things to say about the the firm, the company um how we would consider this going. We have a a a finite amount of money um in this project. So, he has passed on and I have confirmed with him that the unit costs that he's provided on page um I'm going to say 88 in your packet when he talks about $2,697.50. We're going to use those unit costs to do as many windows as we can. Essentially, what he'll do is deconstruct the windows, take them back to his shop, um rehab all of the the sashes and and everything associated with the window, and then bring them back and and reinstall them. So, this is a very the reason likely we only got why we only had one submitt is there's a very small list of people that are that have this qualification to do historic window rehab work. Um, so we had a list to work off of. if I send the RFP to

everyone on the list. Um, unfortunately, we just had the one response, but I've been very gratified to hear from folks um his services. So, uh, my recommendation is to proceed with this and let's move this forward and get as many windows done as we can. Great idea. I think, you know, just I'm sorry, mayor. just um one of the things that Val Meerson, our library director, she I have not seen this personally, but she said probably today's like today. It actually snows inside the Carnegie building like through the windows. So, it's it's a need that we have.

It's time. And I I can't think of a better building. Uh we we are responsible for that Carnegie building of the city. And I think the upkeep and the maintenance is number one with anything that we own. keep it operating the right firm. Mr. N.

I'd like to add I know that um Blackberry was the only bidder, but I have direct experience with them. I just got off of a a pretty significant uh redevelopment project with them using them, and they were fantastic. Their crew, their installation, they were clean. It was I I couldn't highly couldn't recommend them anymore, and I'd be glad to make the motion to um to uh engage them. Okay. Do I have a second support? I have a motion from Mr. Robb, a second from Mr. De Moore. Any other discussion? Council, Miss W, Miss De Moore.

So, I wanted to thank city manager for the clarification because when I read this, I was confused between the 40 $40,000 and what was included in the packet, which seemed like a lot more money. But my secondary question is um I know there's different amounts in this um grant allocated for different aspects and I'm just wondering um given the need because there's more windows and right now we're allocating $40,000. I'm wondering if there's any ability to sus out more dollars from other aspects of this this that haven't yet been used to try to do more windows. So that's my question.

Yeah, that's a great question. We have we have completed number one the the Ashray level two assessment that was $22,000. So we have we have that that is something that we can use as we put capital budgets um together going forward. Um I think there's likely room in number three the community engagement and communications piece where we can maybe redirect some funds to the window repair strategy. You know, another option you would have as city council, you could you could direct additional funds into this project if you if you would so choose. Um um this is this is a um we have to work with the state historic preservation office to um submit um for this uh rehab project because we have to make sure we adhere to state historic preservation guidelines. So certainly we can do as many windows now and then put in the budget in subsequent years and you know continue that process. That's not an issue. Um but certainly I will go back to see if we can squeeze out any additional dollars.

Yeah, I'd appreciate that. Thank you. If not, we'll add it to next year's budget as far as a your mark of keep it going. Keep it going because uh I think the number one thing is maintenance of what we have. We need to m make sure we keep what we have in good running order and and you know decay in windows just is going to a lot of way the sills etc that just keeps on going. Miss Walker,

thank you mayor. Um I did not have the opportunity for to seek clarity. So that was my question was the amount allotted for this um proposal was utilizing the $2,697 per window and the budget for this grant funded project is 40,000 and so that would get us how many windows of there's 34 alto together correct? Yeah, a little less than half. Um but like the mayor said, it's certainly something we can add to next year's uh capital budget to continue that effort. Oh, does that make sense?

Yes. Um, except that like you'd want to do an economy of scale, right? So, you would save money by doing all of them up front at or we're already doing a if we're doing half of them, that's a pretty good chunk. Okay. Because otherwise the it's 34 unit 34 alto together and that would be $91,000. So, that's what I was assuming like, okay, but the only amount that's allotted for the window project out of the three projects that the $100,000 Eagle um grant came from um was Okay. So, it's just 40 for that. So, that would be how many windows? 12. You said half of them. Okay. 14.

Yeah. Got it. So, again, this grant was no match required. So, it's $100,000. So, we didn't have any outlay of funds for this grant opportunity. Miss Gilmore, would it p be possible um city manager to come back with us? Um just kind of let us know what you determine about able to sus out other dollars. That'd be great. Thank you. Y I I'm I'm sure I'll ask uh you'll give us an update as we go along uh when they've started or where we're at. Yeah, for sure. Just just email us and say, "Hey, windows have started."

Yeah. you'll you'll be able to see that because likely what'll happen which is not attractive but we'll probably have plywood over the windows for a period of time till he till he rehabs and then brings them back but we'll try to keep that as short of a time span as possible and they're also like ranking them by like the worst possible scenario like the assessment that's done first so he prioritizes which windows be done first which is good y okay so I have a motion from Mr. Mr. Knob and a second from Miss Deore. Any other discussion? Public wish to weigh in on this? I go to Please come up.

Oh, babe. And I'll start the clock. Well, this um isn't about this issue. It's about the winter sports park. That's what I was asking. Republic sailed. Well, there was no opportunity I was told there'd be opportunity according to my piece of study is if there's not a motion then you wouldn't go to the public for comment. However, are you good with her making com? Absolutely.

Thank you. Again, I'm Sue Vanavvener and I live in W 2. Um, I personally want to express my opposition to the two resolutions regarding the pavilion and chiller for the winter sports park hockey rink. It's disappointing that the costs for those improvements have dramatically increased since our initial proposal, but allocating such a significant amount from the general fund for the specific purpose seems impractical. Additionally, these changes won't restore the winter sports park to the days when children could easily use the tow rope for sledding and skiing or take skating lessons on the rink. As a grandmother in my 70s, I've had my share of helping my grandchildren navigate deep snow to reach the top of the hill. Therefore, I would advocate for a magic carpet system that would not only enhance accessibility for all children, including those with disabilities, but also a snow making machine to ensure the hills are wellmaintained even when natural snow cover is insufficient. I'm not opposed to adding a pavilion at some point, but I am beyond frustrated that the pavilion has become the focus, the main focus for the winter sports park to the exclusion of restoring the features we've lost over the years. There are thousands and thousands of kids who learned to ski and skate and went sledding at that winter sports park. My kids have wonderful memories from that and I I I just feel like restoring those kinds of features should take precedence. Thank you.

Anybody else? Please. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on the same issue where park. I've been quite attached to this issue as many of you know. I followed the ins and outs and I appreciated the comments that everybody made tonight um including Tina going back to 2021. It's important to look at the whole history and understand I don't know you but um is it

Joe? Um I well I just I you're new to me and I appreciated your observing that there was just all over the map opinions and I know that can happen with votes. Um I actually made a table as you were speaking. My table had names on the one side, A's and B's over there, pluses and minuses, and I couldn't even keep track of it after a while because I think it's the the crux of it is to me, I agree with Su Vanventure. I'm Nancy Dwan if I didn't say I'm in Wakazu Avenue and Paskki. I think that the order of operations from the beginning were wrong. And that's why we're in this position when so many people have nuanced and different and opposing views is because it's not simple. The other resolutions on the table tonight were easily resolved because they're kind of simple and logical in terms of how they came about. This issue in my mind should have been brought to the public way before it did. The the pavilion was put forth in my mind in a way such that most people didn't even know it was happening. And the pavilion itself, I agree with um Charlie, is not worthy of our money if the chiller is not part of it. I personally oppose both of the resolutions because of that wrong order of operations. And my main point is all along been like Sue Vanventure said, bring the winter sports park back to its former glory or at least partially to its former glory by re building either a ropetoe or a magic carpet to have a snow maker back in operation like it was for decades and decades and decades to maintain the full size of the main rink so that uh speed skating competitions regional can continue to happen there. I brought my speed skates with me. I just want to show you dudes and thousands of people have learned to skate and ski. And these skates were the skates that I used 52 years ago. Still

use them every single winter. Uh made in Canada, duct taped together, and I love that place. I'm just saying how much I love the winter sports park, all that it's done for me and the community. And I just passionately hope that um not only you know we can think about funds going towards those things I mentioned the rope toe the snow maker full-size rink but also promoting the winter sports park like it was promoted in days gone by. It's it was a it it was it is a treasure but it's just so unrealized and if we could promote the the park have more winter events recognize its legacy and the history I think we could bring it back. And so that is my my opinion on that issue. Thank you for taking the time to listen.

See, thank you. Anyone else wish to speak the council at this time? There's someone online, but are you going to go for it?

Yes, Miss Lake.

Hi there. Yeah, actually this is August Serjack spouse to Miss Lake or we're Bear Creek uh township residents but enthusiasts of the winter sports park and the Carnegie building regular participants. I had a kind of combined comment that initially wanted to speak to the restoration um project at the Carnegie building and just speaking as a a carpenter um about like the economy of scale of of investing in the whole arc of restoring all the windows at once. Um, it that I don't I don't know the the restoration specialists, but I would guess they'd probably have a lower bid to do all of them rather than to do half one season and then retool, you know, and have to do it again when it's the next available time. And so I just wanted to throw that out there. And um grateful for the perspective about the winter sports park. And it seems like with the the the no-go motions on that, maybe there there's, you know, new funds available in the imagination to address the um the real smaller scale um aspirations of restoring the the park. Um, and also, you know, I guess in in the spirit of MLK day and a word of support, I did want to toss in, I know I'm probably at the edge of my time here, um, a support for the the resolution around um, kind of reigning in uh, ICE agents. Maybe we could deputize them to deal with ice,

you know, actual ice problems instead of scaring our neighbors. Um, and, you know, give them a shovel. Maybe they can clean the the rink or something. Um, but I guess I wanted to close with a lines from MLK, his letter from the Birmingham jail. um that he was saying or that he wrote um that he's reached the regrettable conclusion that the person of color or negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the white citizens counselor or the Kux Clanner, but a white moderate who's more devoted devoted to order than to justice, who preverts a negative peace, which is the absence of tension, to a positive peace, which is the presence of justice. And so I wanted to just invite us to lean into the positive piece that may have some tension about it and uh think how we may be able to yeah find find more creative and justiceoriented solutions. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else want to speak to council? I see there's one more hand. Mr. Todd.

Yes. Hello. Um, my name is Ken Todd. I'm I'm here speaking on behalf of my entire family, including my mother, who was unable to attend the meeting this evening. Um we've lived on the top of the hill um behind of the winter sports park at the top of the sledding hill um for 56 years and um can attest to and support the comments both of Sue Van Deventor and um Nancy Dwan. We have watched that park um decline um without the rope toe and the snow making and and all of that. And we are a as as the park's direct neighbors, we are so supportive of that park. We love that park. My father grew up in Paskki, bump jumped in that park. You know, it's it's it as everyone says, it's a community treasure. And um we support um fixing the fundamentals of of the park and bringing it back to where it was before we start spending millions of dollars on additional features. So, um would love to see if those funds that were um that were um donated um can still be utilized for um some of the other improvements to bring the park back and revitalize it to to where it was. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to council at this time? I see none. Um we have a motion. We have a motion. Uh, Mr. Beck. Oh, but before you have the role, I'd like lay some clarity on the motion, please. The amount of money that uh we're allocating for the windows. Yes, please. Could you give us a summary of the numbers? Summary of the numbers that we're talking about. 40,000 is our budget and currently and that's with the grant. That's in the grant. There's no zero dollars out of city funds. Thank you. I thought so. I just want to make sure. Miss Beck, would you please do roll on this? Zack Trab I Deore I Wilmont I

Walker Hi Murphy I now it's we move on to what's called close session is adoption of proposed resolution that would authorize to adjourn to a closed session to consult with its attorney regarding trial or settlement strategy in connection with the following the Powell case the low versus city case and the city versus Gster cases is uh I ask for a motion. So moved as set forth on page 91 of the packet. Support. I have a motion from Mr. Moore. I have a second from Mr.

Wilmont. Uh there will be no further business coming after this after this close session. So you will not Okay. Now I ask for roll please. I'm sorry. I wasn't sure if Laura wanted to say anything. You got to go out when we have a room. Uh, just wanted to make sure it was done on a roll call vote. Okay. Yep. Wait. Okay. So, Deore I Walker Ira I Murphy

I we will adjourn to we will go there and come back to. Thank you all the people Starting.

recording. Okay, we're back in session. Next is city council comments. I start with Miss Walker. No comments, mayor. I go to Mr. Knobro. No comments. Mr. Wilmont. No comment, Mr. Moore. No comment. I can't believe it. I had one, but I restrained myself. I did, too. My comment is, city council, you did a great job tonight representing what you thought was right. And this is what makes democracy work.