Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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There we go. We're live. Welcome. Welcome to the Tuesday, December 9th Planning Commission meeting. I'd like to begin the meeting with Pledge of Allegiance. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Connolly?

Here.

Commissioner Roden? Here. Commissioner Marlowe? Here. Commissioner Christensen? Here. Commissioner Kogler? Here. Commissioner Neal? Here. Commissioner Koperubias?

Present.

All right. The record will show that Commissioner Christensen's absent.

Thank you, sir. Staff introductions? Let's see if we can get that one.

Marcy Reynoso and Jessica Ferguson, permit technicians.

Warren Frase, community development director.

And Sarah Laughlin from Best Best and Krieger at the city attorney's office.

Good. All right. Moving on to other items. Item E, general public comments regarding matters not on the agenda. Do we have anything, Marcy? Seeing none in the audience.

No callers.

No callers? Okay. Are there any agenda items proposed to be tabled or rescheduled? There are none. All right, then let's move on to the public hearing portion. Discussion item, item number one, request to change development review committee meeting minutes, or I'm sorry, the timeframe.

Yes, so this is an item that was a request from Commissioner Marlowe to agendize for discussion purposes. So Commissioner Marlowe has submitted a letter requesting that the DRC meeting times change from starting at 4.30 on Mondays to 4 o'clock on Mondays. Commission has discretion. The DRC is a subcommittee of the Commission. So you do have the discretion to adjust the meeting times as you see fit. So we thought it would be appropriate just to put it on the agenda for discussion purposes. So maybe I'll, you know, yield to Commissioner Marlowe and kind of explain, you know, the purpose of his request.

Yeah. So just I work down in San Luis Obispo where I'm usually kind of out of the area and... that going from 3.30 to 3 would just give me that little bit of extra time. And, you know, I think it would be easier for me at least to be able to make the meetings and not have to, you know, scoot out of work a little bit earlier. So, you know, our job sites are usually open from 7 to 3.30, so leaving around 3.25, 3.30 is a little bit more appropriate for me. And I thought 30 minutes wouldn't be too big of a negative impact to anybody else, but I'm, you know, I'm here to, I volunteered for this role and I'm, I want to do whatever is best for the commission and for everybody. And just would appreciate, you know, if you guys could make, make the adjustment for me and it is my third year of the first term. So hopefully I'll get the adjustment will be meaningful for if I get reappointed. So I appreciate it.

Okay. Okay. Commissioner Marlowe has stated some comments. Are there any other, comments from any other commissioners. Thoughts? Opinions? Commissioner Roden?

Eric, of course, has discussed this previously with some of us. And I look at it as we're trying to attract those in the community who are a little younger than myself, people who are still working in the community. And this is one of those meetings that's an unusual situation because our planning commission and city council, or at least after hours for most working. So I know that I'd like to hear from staff as to the pros and cons of moving that to four or maybe even 430. and how the other commissioners maybe feel about even moving it to 430. But if that creates an issue for staff, I'd like to get some feedback from them as well.

Yeah, I think there are some concerns with staff. DRC is staffed by a lot of our hourly staff members, not our salaried employees. So it does, once we go past 5 o'clock, it's typically an overtime situation. They may also have certain obligations. So it's kind of tricky because DRC tends to just kind of run, I think, you know, we wouldn't recommend 430. I think if we are at, you know, if we do change to four, we'll probably have to make sure we cut by 530, you know, as a hard stop time is my guess. But, you know, that all said, you know, it really is about, you know, accommodating the development projects and the needs of the DRC members. So, you know, we'll make it work whatever, you know, the DRC sees fit.

So the other thing to consider too is

The past few years, we haven't had a lot of things on the agenda for DRC. They've generally been pretty light. Coming the first of the year, we have quite a bit of projects building up, even though there's not a whole lot on the agenda today. We've got a lot coming in, so I could see where DRC agendas are gonna get some projects. I recall back when it was busier for DRC starting at 3.30, we needed more time than starting at 3.30. So my thought would be is if we started at four, that could work for a while. And like Warren said, we can make that work. But once we start getting more on the agenda, it makes it tough to get those items done. And it's tough when you have people This is back when we had people coming to the meeting as well, where we had people waiting in the lobby. We were trying to get one item done while people were waiting. It gets kind of hectic. Shortening the time, I think, is a concern. Like I say, we can make it work, but I do think that agendas are going to get busier come the new year.

I have a thought based on what Darren is saying, Warren. Not to make this even more difficult, but is it Would it be feasible that when we know we have a large DRC agenda to adjust the time accordingly? So, for example, let's say we agreed that we would move it to 4 o'clock because the agendas are light, but on those occasions where we have multiple items to discuss for that specific meeting, could it be moved up to 3.30 as usual, or is there a requirement, a time notification

Well, we post the start time on the agenda, so I do believe we have the flexibility. I think that's a really good suggestion. So if you want to kick that back for us to kind of work that out, we could probably figure out how to make that workable.

Okay. Yeah, at least my feeling is I have a feeling that most of the committee is probably not totally opposed to the 4 o'clock. We just don't want to create a burden for the staff, especially the hourly staff, after 5 o'clock. So anyways, that's my thought. Commissioner Marlowe?

Yeah, and I just want to echo, you know, if it would do me a solid, it would be a favor, but at the same time, I don't want to negatively impact other commissioners of the city. Like, I will make it work, so I just, if it's not a big deal and it's not going to negatively impact people, I'd really appreciate it. It makes it a little easier for me and my schedule and maybe into, you know, to Commissioner Roden's point, if there's different people in the future that are working, you know, a little bit later. I just want to make, you know, it's really just kind of doing a solid for me, and I think that your idea of being able to be flexible with it, because obviously if it's a more in-depth one, and I happen to be on DRC, you know, I just don't want to change too much stuff if it's going to be really hard on everyone, just for me. You know, I think that's, if it's unnecessary, but if it was an easier thing where we can be a little bit more flexible on busier days, then, you know, I'd just be appreciative of it. So I appreciate it.

So Warren, if we decide to go ahead and move the DRC regularly scheduled meeting time to 4 o'clock on most occasions with the change by staff when required. Do you need a formal vote for us to do that, or is this just a discussion thing?

Yeah, it would probably be good for you guys to make a motion just so we have clarity on, you know, that you want, you know, staff to, you know, change to 4 p.m. for light agendas and leave it at 3.30 for heavier agendas. Okay. And then as maybe a six-month test, and then we can kind of reevaluate, you know, come summer and see how it's going.

Okay, I like that. All right, any other comments, or I'll take a motion.

I'll make a motion.

Oh, we got a comment. Yeah, well, again, that's okay. If you'd like to make a comment, go ahead.

Yeah, I'm not really opposed to it, but there is a time crunch for me. On the third Monday of every month, I help the Echo Center feed the homeless, and I have to be there at 445. So traveling there maybe takes a few minutes. So to me, the 330 is more convenient. And I apologize for interrupting a motion. I thought we were going to... No, you're good. Yeah, you're good. So anyway, for me, it's not a big deal. If it's 4 o'clock, I can probably make it work. But it just makes a crunch for me when I have to help Echo Center and be there at 445. So that's just a personal thing.

Sure. Thank you. Any other comments before we go ahead and entertain a motion? All right, I'll entertain a motion.

I'd like to make a motion.

Thank you, Commissioner Neal.

What Warren said.

What Warren said? Would anybody like to second what Warren said? I'll second that. Commissioner Roden will second what Warren said. So we've got a first and a second. Roll call, Warren.

Yeah, so just to clarify the motion for the record, We will, for six months, experiment with starting the meetings at 4 p.m. for light agendas, but on heavier agendas, we will stick with a 3.30 p.m. start time. Sounds good. And that was seconded by Roden, right?

Yes.

Correct. Okay. Commissioner Neal?

Aye.

Commissioner Roden? Aye. Commissioner Connolly? Aye. Commissioner Marlowe? Yes. Commissioner Kogler? Aye. Chairperson Kovarubias? Aye. Motion passes 6-0. Okay.

Thank you, Warren, for that feedback. On to discussion item number two, Norma's Alley Revitalization. Oh, I'm glad I said that right. Review and discussion.

Okay. So this is an item that the commission gave direction on to agendize for discussion. So this is This isn't a decision tonight. This is really just kind of an informational item, but we did agendize it that the commission may be making a recommendation to the council as part of this. So... The request from the commission was basically to get an update on what's going on in terms of the city's efforts to potentially enhance or revitalize Norma's Alley. So we put together a presentation here just kind of going back over the last 10 years of kind of the different efforts and ideas that have been generated, and we are very interested in the commission's feedback and ideas on this area. Okay, so Norma's Alley, located right there in the middle of the downtown between 13th and 12th Street, Park and Pine Street. You can look back here on the screen, that colored map, that's what they call a Sanborg map. So those were used for fire insurance early last century. But you can see the layout of the buildings around Norma's Alley, and that's a 1943 map. And that's basically the exact same urban pattern that we have today. So Norma's Alley and what's there is basically what's been in Paso for probably 100 years in that area. So it's a key block in the downtown. the city's considered a range of different options to deal with and enhance that alley over the last 10 years to date no kind of formal program or effort has actually occurred there yet so like i said this was a request from the planning commission to agendize this for review So back in 2016, when Tom Frucci started as city manager, he really was interested in moving some sort of downtown enhancement project forward. So he created... what was known, I think, as the Downtown Enhancement Team. It was a joint effort between the city and Main Street. So there was 31 different members plus staff that was involved in this. There was a series of meetings that occurred in early 2016, basically brainstorming ideas of projects that could be undertaken to enhance the downtown area. So there was about seven or eight different projects that were identified by the groups that then were divided up into action teams. And each action team focused on an area. They developed a concept plan and cost estimates. One of those was Norma's Alley. The main problem identified at the time was the trash storage and the grease storage for the restaurants, which still to this day continues to be a problem. So the council had allocated about $220,000 for downtown revitalization. Of that, 84,000 was programmed for basically the trash collection cleanup for Norma's Alley. So the idea was to consolidate all the different dumpsters that were basically belong to each of the individual businesses, into shared trash compactors, which is kind of that image that's shown on the bottom there. So we had worked with Paso Waste to develop this program. Unfortunately, this never got beyond just the concept stage, but that was the idea back in 2016. So that was kind of the first idea or effort of a project within the Norma's Alley area. In 2019, the community development department, we had a planning intern, Mitchell Spector, and he was really interested in Norma's Alley, and he decided he was gonna do a senior project on that, and he worked with city staff and kind of looked at the action team's ideas, and he consolidated that into his alley revitalization plan. It's a really well done plan, 68 pages, It includes case studies and design recommendations. He looked at a number of other alley restoration or renovation projects across the country. There's a lot of really good information in there. You can see he's done site plans. He's got different kind of photo renderings of different concepts. He's looked at a lot of interesting things. So it's done at a level where it's actually a pretty good starting point potentially for a concept plan. So we do have his plan or his senior project around, and we can definitely use that if there's interest in moving something forward In 2022, we built a number of restaurants and wine-tasting venues along the alley. So I think we're all familiar with the Jeffries Barbecue Project in the middle of the alley. So there's actually a number of businesses on the alley now. But one of the issues is that they don't have any identification or signage, so people that don't really know that they're there. So they made a request in 2022 for the city to do something with our wayfinding program to enhance their identity and basically wayfinding to what's on the alley. So we did a couple different concepts that would fit with the city's either just generically identifying restaurants and wine tasting on the alley, or potentially even identifying businesses. So this was a concept that we could have moved forward to date, but no signs have actually been installed to date. But I think the need for identifying businesses that are located down on the alley continues to be an issue. Also in 2022, our local artist, Dale Evers, had an idea that he wanted to put an arch on the alley, basically to celebrate Norma Morey's contributions to the downtown. So he worked with a couple of the neighboring property owners on the alley to fund the effort to build and install that Norma's Alley arch that's there today. So that was 100%. private effort. You can see the dedication photo down there from April 2022. It was quite the celebration and really that's, you know, due to really the importance of Norma Moy's contributions to the city of Paso and especially the downtown and the revitalization that we see today there. Also in 2022, Kathy Bonelli, she was one of the members of the original downtown kind of action teams. She has always had a big interest in the downtown. So she just submitted basically kind of a letter of ideas to the city of things she really thought should be prioritized in the downtown. A lot of this is very similar to what was in the action plans originally. It also included the Pine Street Alley as well. thinking that that should all be combined together. So this was actually a pretty good effort in just kind of summarizing kind of some of the key issues within the alley. At the time, we were working on the Economic Development Strategic Plan, and a lot of these ideas actually are incorporated into the Economic Development Strategic Plan. which we'll talk about now. So the economic development strategic plan was prepared by Will Dan, economic consultant working for the city. The council adopted this plan in 2024. It has a number of recommendations about how to enhance both tourism and economic development within the city of Paso Robles. One of the programs deals with placemaking, basically enhancing the attractiveness of Paso Robles to tourism. And on that list, activating alleys is one of the key recommendations for placemaking. And you'll see this, this drawing here, this plan, is out of the economic development plan. So they specifically identified Norma's Alley as an area for alleyway beautification, and pretty much their first recommendation for placemaking is to activate Key Alley. These outside consultants, they drove around town, they looked at lots of things, and they keyed in instantly on really Norma's Alley could be a really important draw and enhancement to the downtown. They also were recommending additional lighting in and around the downtown. That's a separate program. They also like the idea of the Railroad Street enhancement project that the Commission had put together a couple years ago. So they're also recommending moving forward with that. Also, the expansion of public art and murals in the downtown. That's something the Community Services Department's working on right now. They will be bringing that to the City Council fairly early next year. So there is a number of programs moving forward, but it is interesting just to see that these consultants that did the economic development strategic plan really focused in on Norma's Alley as well. And then finally, last year, the Planning Commission officially named Norma's Alley Norma's Alley. Before that, it was officially an unnamed alley. So it was December of last year, almost exactly a year ago today. By unanimous vote, the commission voted to rename the alley, and it is now officially known as Norma's Alley. all right so that gets us to the end of the presentation so yeah we're this is set up basically just be kind of an open discussion item um i'm not sure if we have any members of the public or main street that would want to comment but definitely open up for public comment as well so we'll be happy to answer any questions okay thank you warren appreciate that so before we open up to the public do any commissioners have any comments right at the moment yes sir

this on. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the person who asked that this be agendized, first of all, I want to thank you for the overview. It was really helpful. I knew some of those things that happened, but not necessarily all of them. Norma's Alley seems to be a space that, despite those efforts, and I'm not diminishing those efforts, is still asking for help. By my quick review the other day, there's 21 garbage containers of various sizes from 90 gallons to large dumpsters. There's five major grease containers. There's five really ugly, bad-looking fly traps. And within the Main Street office at any given day, I'm told there are more flies than there are humans by a wide margin. And this, you know, this is a great public corridor. It has some great uses, but the conditions that we expect local residents and visitors to walk through to get to the doors of these places are pretty much atrocious, especially on a warm summer day. And so I would say that this needs help. I don't know if the approach is an ad hoc kind of approach maybe to start with like we did with railroad, like we did with Paso Robles streets. The ad hoc and railroad, I think, certainly helped. Paso Robles is still in process, but this one needs some attention, and I wanted to discuss this before this body to see if we could get that ball rolling. That's my initial comment.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Kogler. Any other? Yes, sir. Thank you, Chair.

I'm not really sure. This is a question to staff, but as development occurs, is there a master plan to say, hey, as this owner improves their property, we're gonna do X, Y, Z for Norman's Alley. If we have a master plan, where as development occurs, then we could take baby steps towards this. I guess that's my question, is there some type of, are we trying to, in this forum, trying to develop some type of master plan, so. That would be, in my opinion, one way to do this is to have kind of a master plan where as new owners or as they expand to provide for those improvements that would improve Norma's Alley.

So to answer that real quick, there is no master plan for Norma's Alley. Okay, Commissioner Connolly, thank you.

Commissioner Roden.

Thank you. I appreciate the presentation, but I would have liked to have seen this so that we could look at it a little bit more closely on the agenda, that the materials would have been sent to us ahead of time. A little difficult to see exactly where some of the plans and projects are. We're going to be, if I remember correctly, too, didn't that extend over into the alley across Park Street as well, behind Marv Pizza, that we wanted to light that area as well and improve that in the same capacity?

Yeah, that's shown on the economic development plan.

And I concur with Commissioner Kogler about the state of affairs. They're in the alley right now. Regardless if the city is involved in doing that, there needs to be some major cleanup in that area. That's not presentable to the public in any way, shape, or form. So yeah, if you could send me the presentation, I'd appreciate it.

You can provide that after the meeting. Okay, thank you for that. Commissioner Roden, thank you. Commissioner Connolly, or I'm sorry, Marlowe.

I think that, I guess more I'm curious about the process. I agree with what Commissioner Kogler said and my other commissioners. It needs to tune up. My question would be, from a process standpoint, let's say we get together, ad hoc it, we come up with all these good ideas, it goes to city council. I guess I'd be curious what the process is for, you know, if it got approved by city council, like, what the steps would be to actually see this like get some money pulled or I guess I'm just curious and maybe it's an offline conversation how that process is you know kind of completed right just I think an ad hoc and we come up with some ideas and maybe you know we get to approve it and then from there how you know we don't obviously have the power to go oh yep spend the money get it done and I think to fellow commissioner's point maybe some sort of master plan with some frontage improvements would be not a bad idea as well so i was just curious about that process so revitalizing norma's alley is going to be expensive only the council can allocate funds for this kind of a project

I think the efforts that the Planning Commission made on Railroad and Paso Robles Street, I think yielded very nice results. Unfortunately, there's been not much investment that's moved any of those ideas forward. And I do believe, kind of looking back, it's because the Planning Commission kind of went off ahead of the Council. So I do think that it would probably be better for the for the commission to work through the council this time um basically rather than starting the ad hoc process maybe forward some sort of recommendation so that this becomes more a council initiative than a commission initiative

yeah because i think the work needs to be done to to come up with a plan but i'd like to you know figure out a way that when we do it that it sets it up for success to be able to actually get executed because i i haven't seen the process come to fruition and i'm just i'm still learning and i i just want to you know my comment would be let's figure out a way to work with council and be able to come up with some maybe creative phased solutions to to get it you know in a little bit

prettier shape and then down the road and you know maybe a it's a joint joint effort for a bunch of different solutions so thanks thank you commissioner marlo commissioner neil just a question is that 85 84 000 still available or was it moved to other priority projects yeah once we get out of a budget cycle any unspent money just goes back and is then reallocated so that money is no longer allocated for this project thank you

Thank you, Commissioner Neal. I like the idea that Commissioner Kogler had about an ad hoc committee. We had two successful ad hoc committees for Paso Robles Street and railroad. I thought they were successful outside of the fact that nothing really has come to fruition yet. know that was a lot of time and effort spent on those committees um by staff by by the committee members um and it's it's a shame that nothing's transpired yet not to say that it can't but yet so that would be my big concern by starting an ad hoc committee go through all the work and again it's it's dormant the other challenge i think that hasn't been discussed is along that alleyway, there's a number of business owners, similar to what we faced with some of the other projects, ad hoc projects we've talked about, past Rubble Street, most recently too. When you're dealing with a lot of different building owners, to get their buy-in, I would assume is a major portion, a contributor to our ability to enhance that alleyway. And so my concern would be, what would be the process of getting their engagement? Because if you look at some of those buildings, they're not in the best of shape whatsoever. On the exterior side, I can't imagine. I haven't been inside the Main Street building in a long time. I'm not sure I need to be, but I hear it's not in the best of shapes. And I'm not even aware, who owns that building, Warren? Do you know? It's not the city, correct?

Nick Thompson.

Nick owns it? Hopkins owns it. Okay. So again, being able to get the buy-in from property owners I think is another part of the challenge. It would be awesome if we could get them involved in the initial onset of this so that we could really gauge their interest in helping the city revitalize that alleyway. Okay, so those are my comments. So I'll go ahead and close this portion of it. I'll open it up. Is there anybody in the audience that'd like to make a comment? Please state your name.

Dale Gustin. Some of you know I'm on the Main Street Board of Directors. And one thing that distinguishes Norma's Alley is there's several businesses there that are actually addressed on Norma's Alley. post office address on Norman's Alley. And of course, if you've been at the entrance off of Pine Street, you've seen that beautiful sign that says Norman's Alley, created by Dale Ayers. And we are even trying to get enough emphasis and monies to maybe duplicate it on the other end of the alley at Park Street. So it gets a lot of foot traffic as well as all the deliveries. Now the deliveries are pretty good. Most of those deliveries are done before noon. And even earlier in the day. So it's not going to be a hazard to pedestrians later in the day when they most often use it. If we improve that alley and down by the Pine Street Saloon, that gets a fair amount of... walking traffic and driving traffic. The previous owner of the Pine Street was a friend of mine, sad when he passed away, but he has a special permit to park his limousines there for a good reason. he does not want anybody to get involved in a dui so if he sees somebody that's the least bit questionable he puts him in his limousine and takes him home he doesn't let him go out and drive so there's a lot of good citizens on that alley thank you thank you any other comments from the audience

Good evening. Go ahead and state your name, please.

My name is Jeffrey Wiesinger, owner of Jeffrey's Wine Country Barbecue in the alley there, and I'm also the president of the board of directors of the Main Street Association. I appreciate greatly the staff presentation. This is near and dear to my heart, of course, so as the... I am not a property owner. I'm a business owner. To the best of my knowledge, there are four property owners in and around that area. Our landlord is Robert Gelson. Nick Comkins is the owner of the Main Street office. Debbie Lorenz is another property owner that we're working with. And Laura, I forget Laura's last name, but she owns the property. that is perpendicular to our alley. So Norma's Alley is heavily trafficked and it is a total mess. We just spent, my wife and I just spent $1,500 to, we do this biannually to have our courtyard steam cleaned and then they come out into the alley and they steam clean the alley in front of us. We are doing our best to keep this area as clean as we possibly can. We are a struggling restaurant business. We've been around for seven years, and this year has been, hands down, the toughest year that we've had. I can speak for myself, but also the restaurant industry, we're struggling with just the fact of inflation. So when it comes to trying to allocate our own personal funds to take care of this area, it's extremely important to us. We are just struggling to do it. So for instance, the fly traps, I appreciate your comment after, and we will, those are fly traps that we put out to try to control the flies during the, their summer season, the trash situation is hands down one of the most difficult. Now when my landlord put in our space into an empty parking lot, I'm not super privy into how that all panned out, but it was extremely important, the trash situation. So all those dumpsters that you see are shared amongst three or four businesses. There is at least three businesses that have the alley as our front-facing business, and then there's another half dozen that have the alley as their back-facing business. So we're in a very unique situation in that we need delivery truck access, but as mentioned earlier, I work with all of my delivery drivers from food and beverage and whatnot to make sure that these are getting done early in the day so we can then get to a situation where we can petition you guys or the council themselves to figure out what we could do to close parts of the alley off to pedestrian traffic only, to have it repaved. We mentioned murals, definitely lighting. Again, we've been there for just seven years and I'm very proud that in the seven years, Jeffrey's Wine Country Barbecue has become a bit of an institution in our community. Because of COVID, we are now also a drive-by pickup. So we're not a drive-through, it's curbside. So one of my big concerns is how can we create an area that is accessible to pedestrians, but a major part of my business is curbside pickup from DoorDash and these third-party delivery drivers. So the idea of closing it off to traffic completely is something that I'm strongly against, but there is an opportunity for us to have an entrance off of Pine Street and then the turn that gets you to, I believe, 13th Street. But between our location and Park Street, is a major area where there's another winery, and we're hoping that we could get you guys' help in how can we revitalize this area, clean up the dumpsters, and I am happy to discuss any of it as a private business owner and also representing Main Street. If you could reach out to me or let me know how I can get in touch with you, I would send an email or what have you.

Thank you, appreciate it. Any other public comments? Go ahead and state your name, please.

Hi, I'm Raymond Smith, a business owner in the alley also and a member of the Main Street Association. Jeffrey just about covered just about everything I wanted to say. I think we need to think back about how this alley was created and what its purpose was 15 years ago compared to what it is now. I went through the alley today and looked around and there's probably about 50 blemishes and probably 30 potholes that could probably have us in a serious insurance situation if somebody was to get hurt there walking around at night. One. Two. Where most of the hotels historically have been formatted or located, and where the restaurants are now in Paso Robles, a lot of times if you look in the GPS apps on your phone, when you walk through downtown, it's going to take you through that alley, which is a definite change from what it was like when I moved here in 1989. So this has become a thoroughfare for people to walk through all the time, women and children, in the middle of the day and at nighttime. And we need to, I think, consider the safety of the alley with people walking around there and not from a perspective of any crime, but safety as far as what the conditions of the roads are and those garbage cans. And not only that, from a cultural perspective, we could do so much more. I go to so many other cities and see what people do with alleys like that, and we could do so much more to help out the other businesses that don't accept pets in their business. They would be able to have like a little area where we could have tables outside at a certain time of the day, probably on Friday afternoon at 4 o'clock, cut off traffic in just Jeffrey's area. to Park Street and allow a couple of tables out there. You could have music and kids out there doing farmer's market Saturday morning. There's so much that we could do with that downtown area. I think from the perspective of Norma and what she's contributed to this, it makes more sense to be able to put as much effort as she did in the city to make it, one, a good looking area for the businesses that are front businesses out there and Paso Robles in a whole. I think it's just changed considerably once they started having businesses like mine and like Jeffrey's that are front-owned businesses in the alley and what it consists of now compared to what the alley was like, you know, even eight or ten years ago, it wasn't that much traffic. But now there's a ton of traffic all the time. People are walking through there all the time. And the apps are leading them through there to get to the restaurants and get to our businesses. I think we ought to consider that.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Go ahead. Hello. Chris Beal, City of Passeroles. I actually appreciate this coming to the agenda. It piqued my interest. I'm a liaison, a city council member and a city liaison to the Main Street Association. And there have been things that the organization has been talking about, so I appreciate the background. This idea of activating alleys is very interesting to me. Mr. Sloan shared a couple of articles, and I think those are very helpful. I think actually looking at the senior project would be very helpful. But just as a little information, I haven't been through a budget cycle yet on the council, but we're moving into a budget cycle. in the springtime, so I think Mr. Fraze's advice in terms of, you know, kind of the order of operations is wise, but also know that the council is working into a two-year budget cycle and budget planning process. you know, in the beginning of next year. So I think this is very interesting. I think we should commend the businesses have been doing so much great work in the alley. It really is lovely and I think has so much opportunity and I appreciate you bringing this up. So thanks.

Thank you. Anybody else in the audience? Seeing none, Marcy, do we have any callers?

No callers.

Okay. We'll go ahead and close the public portion, bring it back to the commission for some final thoughts. Mr. Gogler.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. None of us will sit here tonight and formulate the way we walk out the door and start doing something tomorrow. I fully realize that, but we need to start doing something. I don't know, Warren, you talked, and I concur with you, I think vesting the council from the beginning in this exercise would probably have value because we do need to start thinking about implementation from day one, and funding obviously is a big piece of that, not the only piece of that. I don't know what this core group is that might lead this. I think we could... think about that a bit, but I guess I'd advocate it needs to be small enough to be workable and big enough to be representational. I think that group starts with defining a scope of work for how this time around this is gonna be attacked. It's gonna certainly look at the resources that are out there, the studies that have been done before. It's gonna have to involve outreach to the business community, to the community at large. to all of the Main Street and the other organizations there, so it's a complex puzzle, but it's a puzzle that I think we can put together and that we can make strides, and so I would like to see whatever initiative you think may be appropriate to begin to talk about who is leading this, lead, I don't mean that term, but helping coordinate this, how does this begin to take shape, and when can that occur?

Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Marlow?

Yeah, just a couple things to add to that, because based on what I'm hearing from public comment, it sounds like that there's some maybe initial safety items and just... low-hanging fruit, for lack of better words. Like, I think that when we start this process, obviously a first phase that, you know, we get in there or someone gets in there and does an initial what we call lipstick repairs, just getting it a little more tuned up. I'd like to see that be, like, you know... the main focus to start, and then from there, obviously, turn it into something else. I think a public forum, you know, to maybe having an open discussion with council members and planning commissioners and city staff and representatives from businesses, maybe that would be a good place to start, is just having an open discussion with everybody about what they'd like to see there and who'd be willing, you know, to volunteer to spend some time working on it and you know I just a question in Grass Valley where I grew up the main downtown over COVID they had shut it down and you know shut down the street and they started doing stuff they ended up actually just placing concrete in the entire street shutting it down for through traffic and made it this cool kind of outdoor mall type thing and that's just just a kooky idea I'm not sure if it's applicable here but it might be kind of a cool little thing so Those are just some of my additional comments, but I'd like to see an initial quicker lipstick safety repair type deal and then get something a little bit more formal down the road.

Okay. Commissioner Marlowe, thank you. Commissioner Connolly.

Yeah, I agree with Commissioner Marlowe and clear that we need to do something. And I think the first step would be to tackle the safety concerns. There's a lot of potholes. Those are things public works could maybe look at. Maybe beyond that, as Commissioner Morrow said maybe we could have like a workshop where the public's invited and and advertise it to say hey These are some some of the history. This is some of the things were that were considered in the past Now let's get the input from business from the public from the City Council Members, maybe I don't I you I guess you would have to avoid a quorum but you know have a have a workshop, a public workshop, open house type of thing that would bring in some ideas and then generate a plan from there. I really think a master plan is needed to ultimately to bring these ideas into reality at some point. So that's my comments.

Thank you, sir. Okay, so Warren, just some thought here real quick, and everybody's said a lot of things. I think what we're trying to figure out is where do we go from here, correct?

Yes.

Right. So I think I like the idea of making sure that the council as a whole is on board with some type of process, because I agree with you. I think we've been through this process twice on two other main corridors in our city, and the movement now that the ad hoc portion was completed has been a little slow for whatever reason. Not blame on anything or any specific thing, just for whatever. But I think something like this could have a little bit better response time if we can engage with the council immediately on how do they want to proceed? Because is it possible that an ad hoc committee is created by a council member or two and a planning commissioner or two? That type of scenario where it's a joint ad hoc committee, so it's not just planning commission or just council? Is that something that's been done in the past? Do you know?

They've been formed in both formats. So we have done joint committees between commission and council, so that definitely is a possibility.

Because I think it sounds like there's some immediate needs, lighting, the roads. You know, those to me are two things that probably could get done. Even just starting there would probably enhance the alleyway immediately, right? The trash. So I think there's some things that can be done relatively quick, and I'm not going to say inexpensive, because I don't know what it would cost to pave that alleyway or to install some lighting. You've got building structures, back and front end structures there. I would imagine that some lighting against those walls could enhance that quite a bit and that should be an easy quick solution to create some lighting back there instead of individual poles or things like that. So, anyways, that would be my recommendation would be to go to the council, make sure they have some buy-in from their part, see if they'd be interested in forming some kind of joint committee with the planning commission so that we could start tackling. And the most important piece, I think, is you've got to get the buy-in from the ownership. The good news is that you've got some owners there that are noteworthy. They've been a long-time member. owners of multiple facilities in our North County area. They're good folks. I know them. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be willing to be part of this process if it's going to help enhance their buildings as well. So I don't know if that's enough of a directive. I don't know if we've given you enough there. What do you think?

I think that's a really good outline. So I think... what would be useful is for the commission to forward a recommendation to the council. It seems like having the council take the lead on creating some sort of task force to look at this quickly, include the business owners in some sort of process that ultimately could be incorporated into the next budget, is probably you know enough that we could get that in front of the council and then see you know and it would give staff a little bit time to you know flesh out you know some details um but i think that would be a good next step on this process commissioner um warren i i agree what you said and i am prepared to make a motion like we did last time that what he said kind of thing um

I guess just for your edification, I did this for a living when I was working, and it can start in many ways, and one of those ways it can start is by at least some kind of a draft scope of services as to what your work program, let me call it that since we're not hiring people like I used to be hired. So the purpose of that being to define what are the components, who are the audiences, who are the stakeholders, what kind of process. We can't just say we're gonna have an open house. Okay, that's really nice, but what's that open house gonna do and what's its purpose? I would foresee there would be multiple open houses, if you want to label those as that, during the course of this project, focusing on different things. And so I think if we had some idea, and maybe even something to inform the council, that this is just one idea of how this thing might operate, that might be helpful, because it seems like that's going to be a vacuum in the decision, even as to who the participants are that help kind of shepherd this thing along. So just two cents worth. But having said that, I would move what he said.

We've got a motion to move on what Warren mentioned. I'll second. And we got a second by Commissioner Neal. No other comments? Okay.

Okay, so I think what the recommendation to the council would be is that you want the council to move forward with some sort of task force to look at Norma's Alley, include some sort of outreach to owners and businesses, and then to incorporate that process into the next budget cycle. Close enough? Sounds good.

We can make that work. Yeah, we'll make that work. Roll call.

Who was a first?

We've got a first, Commissioner Kogler, seconded by Commissioner Neal. Commissioner Kogler.

Aye.

Commissioner Neal.

Aye.

Commissioner Connolly?

Aye.

Commissioner Roden?

Aye.

Commissioner Marlowe?

Yes.

Chairperson Kovarubias? Aye. All right. That passes 6-0. We'll send out this presentation to the Commission after the meeting tonight, so you'll have that as information. So thank you. That's useful input.

Thank you, Warren. All right. Moving on to our consent calendar, we've got minutes for Planning Commission and for DRC. Can I get a motion to approve the consent calendar, please?

I have a comment. Oh, comment. On page 16, just the misspelling of my name on that DRC minutes.

On which minutes?

Yeah, on page 16.

On which date?

DRC December 1st minutes. Just for the record.

Okay. Any other comments? If no other comments, I'll entertain a motion. So moved. Got a motion by Commissioner Marlowe. Second. We got a second by Commissioner Connolly. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Marlowe. Yes. Commissioner Connolly. Yes. Commissioner Roden.

Yes.

Commissioner Koehler. Aye. Commissioner Neal. Aye. Chairperson Kovarubias. Aye. Motion passes 6-0.

Okay. Other reports? Pass Robles Street, Streetscape, and Ad Hoc Committee? No report. Housing Constraints and Opportunities Committee?

Yes, so the Housing Constraints Committee met a couple weeks ago. The council has appointed three new members to the Housing Constraints Committee, so they were added to the committee. The committee basically kind of looked at some of their past accomplishments, had a discussion about future goals, looked at the multifamily accelerator program, and they are hopeful to get onto a more regular meeting schedule. We expect that in 2026, we'll probably get onto a quarterly meeting schedule for the Housing Constraints Committee. They are charged with finding ways to reduce constraints to housing production in the city of Paso Robles, and obviously that is a key need in the community. So we will likely be seeing more meetings and additional recommendations from them that will probably go to both Planning Commission and City Council in the near future.

Okay, thank you for that. DRC Committee Rotation Schedule. Any concerns, requests? Seeing none, okay. Seems like we're good there. Planning Commissioners Academy. Is that Marcy?

Yes, I just wanted to mention I had sent out an email letting you guys all know that the Planning Commissioners Academy is going to be March 11th through the 13th. It's held in Anaheim this year, so if anyone is interested, I can get the registration booked in the hotel. We do have three commissioners who their terms will be up, so they are open to reapply. So we do have some spaces available to...

um get some commissioners out to the um academy this year okay all right thank you for that marcy okay any final commissioner comments looking to my right saying none i just want to thank my fellow commissioners for uh making that adjustment and giving it a trial run for the drc uh i i you know i just appreciate you know considering it so thanks you're welcome

Mr. Conley, did you have something? I just wanted to mention, I think it's very impressive what the city has done in the park. It's becoming kind of a go-to place now in San Luis Obispo County, the city of Paso Robles, particularly during Christmastime, and I think the staff and whoever did all the decorations did. It's just, I know it's more than last year, and it looks great out there, and I wanted to compliment everyone on that.

Okay. Yeah, that's basically spearheaded by the Public Works Department, so the Public Works Director, Freda Berman, is the lead. This is her vision for the downtown, and yeah, it's fabulous. And Freda actually will be retiring early next year, so this will be kind of her last big event, and she also is in charge of the New Year's Eve bonfire and that event as well.

Okay, thank you for that. All right, seeing no other Commissioner comments, Warren, staff comments?

Yeah, so I think as Marcy said, we're going to be doing annual recruitments for the Planning Commission. We have three seats that will be open and available for reappointment. So we'll be advertising to the general public as well as the Commission that the applications are available in early January. The council is scheduled to do interviews and appointments in mid-February, and then the new term would start March, as we typically do. I think this last year, the commission agendas have been on the light side historically, and I think that's kind of an anomaly. As Darren was pointing out, We're looking at 2026, and it looks like it's going to be rather busy for the Planning Commission. So we don't have a meeting, another meeting in December, December 23rd, because of Christmas. There's no meeting. So your next meetings will be starting in January. So looking at the calendar for January, I know the boys' school project, the landing project, we've been talking about that for a long time now. We are getting down to the final details on that project in terms of the conditions of approval, the development agreement. That will end up on your agenda sometime probably in early 2026. So that one is definitely moving forward. we have another big expansion to the allegretto hotel over on buena vista and dallens uh staff's working really hard on getting that ready for a commission agenda so we expect that in the you know january february range that's another fairly large project um The Sensario project, the Field of Lights, they have a second phase that was always approved for a large kind of resort hotel. So we're working right now on getting that project pulled together as well. So I would expect that's a project that you'll be seeing in 2026. The Hunter Ranch Golf Course also has a proposal for a large lodging resort type development there. That's another one that's getting fairly close to moving forward as well. So I think that kind of gives you a sense of some of the really large projects that have been in the works for the last couple years. We haven't been able to get them onto an agenda, but... it looks like the stars are going to align where the first six months of next year could be very busy so just wanted to make sure you were aware and not surprised and thinking that you know this year was kind of light and you know what's going on planning commission i think it was kind of an anomaly we'll definitely make up for it next year so i just want to thank the commission for all their hard work for the last couple years and wish you a happy holiday awesome thank you thank you for that okay

If there are no other comments, then I will take a motion to adjourn. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned.