City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Please repeat after me. I, state your name. I, Richard Warren. Do solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Do solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. And the Constitution and laws of the state of Alaska. And the Constitution and laws of the state of Alaska. To faithfully and impartially perform the duties of your rank To faithfully and impartially perform the duties of assistant chief. For Palmer Fire and Rescue. For Palmer Fire and Rescue. Upholding its mission and its core values of. Upholding its mission and core values of excellence, professionalism, and service. Perfect. That was a test. So help me God.

So help me God.

Congratulations, Mrs. Chief. They will be presented with their badges from their family and their bins. May you guys wear them with honor and humility as you serve Palmer Fire and Rescue and our community. Come on.

So we know one of these people. Who are the others?

So you have Mrs. Brickle and Don. And then one of our actual full-time firefighters, Lieutenant Colton Brickle. And then, of course, Councilmember Amanda and Liam. Nobody can forget Liam. And then you got Sir Washer, along with his wife, hiding a little bit further back, Barbara. And then mom, because I can't remember her name. Kathy, that's right.

So we

How did you do that so fast? Ridiculous. He is a fireman. So you got to stick it through the top.

On the struggle bus, my bad.

No pressure.

It's whatever.

We're here on that anyway.

Yeah, we have a spot. Congratulations. Aw. Trying not to wrinkle in your suit. Oh, don't worry about that.

They wanted a picture. Who? The boss people.

Come here. Picture with you.

Please join me in our closing prayer and blessing over our chief staff. Our gracious Heavenly Father, May Chief Lindstrom, Deputy Chief Rickle, Assistant Chief Washer, and Assistant Chief Brown step into their sacred calling, soberly and with humility, knowing that they can call on you to strength, wisdom, and direction. Lord, we ask you to go before them protecting and guiding them as they lead our department and serve our community. We also ask for protection upon their families. We are grateful for their service to our department and community as well. We at Palmer Fire Rescue welcome our new chiefs into the new roles and are proud to serve under their leadership. Please unify us through your spirit for service and bless the leadership of Trey Lindstrom and our chief staff. I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

I'd like to take a short break so people can actually renew.

And all my firefighters and officers, you guys are good to go so we can lower the temperature. That is incredible.

And thanks for responding.

I'll figure it out. Thank you. You guys enjoy this for the rest of the night. all right that way Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll just take it now.

And so we actually got a letter back and a certificate back from AARP. It says, this is certified that the city of Palmer is committed to becoming more age-friendly under the criteria established by AARP and has been accepted as a member of the ARP network of age-friendly cities and communities. And we are the 1,060th community to enroll in this organization, which is pretty high up compared to how many cities we actually have in the US. So other things that went on. Last week, we had a group of 10 adults from Soroma that were here at the city hall. And they were doing the tours around, did a walking tour. Some of them went fishing. Some of them went to the fair. Now it's good to see some of the folks. Previous mayor, Mayor Horry, who was a mayor back in 2001, was here. He's 88 years old this year, and he wanted to come back to Palmer just to sit down with us one last time. So we had a joint Palmer-Wasilla Chamber luncheon. This last week, I gave a city update on that. Both of our chiefs were there, the HR director, Councilman Carrington, former Mayor Steve Carrington, city manager, and our clerk were there as well. I had a meeting with the livable communities just yesterday. And they're just discussing the organization, what groups need to get involved, you know, how city can help if we decide to do, for example, roads. How do we make it more walkable, more accessible to all ages, you know, from 3 to 80 or whatever age it is. And that will, their next meeting is October 6th, and I will attend that one as well. They will have public hearings or public get-togethers in March to discuss all the things that they would like to do in and around the city. AML District 4, which is Houston, Wasilla, and Palmer, seat is available this year. We typically alternate between the city of Wasilla and the city of Palmer. Currently, Councilman Cottle from Wasilla is on their board, and if there's anyone who's interested in running for that seat, please let me know, and I'll let them know. If there is no one, then she'll ask to run again from the next year. The annual meeting for AML will be in Anchorage. It's in February. We have a lot of time to figure that part out. That's kind of all I have. Are there any questions, concerns, comments? Madam Clerk.

Not to disagree with the mayor, but the annual conference for AML is December. I hear the other one. So the winter conference is February. Yes, it's February and Juneau. So I just want to remind council that, yes, the annual conference is coming up in December. So I will start hassling you about travel arrangements. So hotel, you'll have the two choices between the Marriott and the Cook Hotel. So that's coming up around the bend. It's the same week as our council meeting, but I think we'll be okay because the conference starts right after the council meeting. I also want to remind everybody about the October 6th election for the city of Palmer. The early voting will start here in City Hall on September 21st and run through October I just also wanted to remind everybody the write-in candidates have to register with the clerk's office in order to be a viable candidate to be written on the ballot. If anybody is interested, please feel free to reach out to my office. You have until October 1st to register to be a write-in candidate.

So the order is what, is that 8 to?

8 to 5, our normal business hours, right in this room right here. Right.

And that's all I got. Okay. Madam Attorney.

Thank you very much. This is Anna Prairie. Just a couple of updates. We've continued to work with both the clerk and the city manager's office on reviewing, evaluating, and assessing record requests compliance with the Alaska Public Records Act and city code requirements. We've also advised on the content of responses to those requests. We're continuing to review and, when necessary, recommend revisions to city contracts and leases. As people will hear more about this evening during Committee of the Whole, we joined the city manager and the airport superintendent at a meeting with the FAA to discuss questions concerning the release of obligation process. We have continued to assess and advise the city on preferable methods of developing sales tax collection, specifically filing complaints versus implementing liens. We're continuing to work with the clerk to review and recommend revisions to a variety of ordinances and resolutions. And then, finally, a disagreeable update on the Open Meetings Act lawsuit that was filed against the city by Michael Bordford. As I believe my colleague Leslie Mean updated the council two weeks ago, there is an upcoming trial scheduling conference the morning of October 1st. Unlike the Anchorage Superior Court, a scheduling order, a routine pretrial order, as we call it, is not issued by the Palmer Court. for, I believe as far as I'm concerned, civil matters. So there actually has to be a hearing at which trial dates are discussed between the parties in the lawsuit and scheduled by the court. So that's happening the morning of October 1. I'm not sure if I will attend or if my colleague or the dean will attend. But assuming we have a trial schedule in place, we'll be providing updates to the council on what that schedule is. And that concludes my report, Mr. Mayor.

Any questions or attorneys? Council meeting rules protect the right to testify and be heard even if others in the room disagree with you. Council meeting rules also ensure those attending can express their views if they do not interfere with the rights of others to see and hear the proceedings. At all times, order decorum will be maintained in keeping with the civility and dignity of the legislative process. Please be respectful during audience participation. No disruptions of city business or arbitrary comments about staff or threats of any kind will be allowed. Individuals who do not follow these guidelines will be removed. Any threats against others could result in criminal prosecution. Please sign and state your name and three minutes per person.

Mr. Collier, I have you on the list first, but do you mind if we defer to Mr. O'Neill? No, no. Okay, thank you. Go ahead.

How do you like my new office? I didn't know it was going to be up here, but anyways, thank you again. My name is Tom Robertson. I live off Marsh Road, and I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I'm heavily concerned about the new fire station.

Would you turn the mic on, sir? Thank you, Amanda. I don't start your time, I'm sure. Are we good yet?

Yep, there you go. Okay, I'm sorry. My name is Tom Robertson. I live off Marsh Road, which is right by the corner where they're building the new fire station, 31 off next to Glen Highway. And I keep trying to get the DOT to allow a emergency driveway to be put in. It's an alternative driveway there. Currently, DOT has got everybody turning into Marsh Road And then from Marsh Road, you turn into the fire station. That really complicates things. Part of the problem is the intersection of Marsh Road and the Atlanta Highway is a blind intersection on a blind hill. It's not a big problem if you're driving a car. You can kind of get around, no big deal. But when you're driving a big truck, or even when I drove a school bus there too, in order to come out of Marsh Road, if you're going to turn right and go to Palmer, You've got to pull way out to square out to turn. You've got to cross the double yellow line before you can start to turn right and get in your lane. And you don't know if anybody's going to be popping up going to the hill. So surprise, that sometimes happens. It's even kind of worse if I pull out and I'm going to turn left. Again, I'm waiting to see, is there anybody coming over the hill? Well, it's a blind intersection. I don't know if they're going to come or not. And so I have to ease out, and I hope there's nobody that's coming. But if they are, once I'm out there, I'm committed. I've got to go. And so it's kind of a bad situation. The problem is when you're dealing with emergency vehicles, and I did this too, I'm ashamed to say, sometimes when I was responding to emergency, sometimes you end up taking a chance that you shouldn't have. You end up going a little faster than you should be, especially when it's icy, and so you get yourself in these weird predicaments that you don't want to be. And the old saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's safer to have a driveway that's farther away from the hill. At least you can see if traffic's coming in either direction. Before you jump on traffic like I do And I want to prevent an accident I don't mean to take your time and sound like a broken record keep hammering on this Over and over and over. It's only DOT that's holding it up and DOT says well, we'll fix it when they widen the road Well, they've had 30 years to widen the road. It was their screw up to begin with Well, anyway.

Sorry, that's my computer.

Anyway, so does anybody have any questions for me on what I'm referring to and why I keep coming back trying to get a driveway? It's only a driveway that I'm asking for. I'm not asking for it. And the city and the state, or the borough and the state are paying for it. The city doesn't have to pay any dime for it.

That's kind of nice.

Okay. Thank you for my new office here. I like that. Okay.

Don't expect to get paid too much.

Okay. See if I can get up now. Thank you.

Well, if something happens, I'm a plaintiff's attorney. Give me a call. Good evening. My name is Derek Kohler. I'm here to talk about the golf course. I realize it's a little further down on the agenda, but I guess I was the first one to sign up. I'm a seasoned pass holder, as I'm sure many people in the audience are. And I use that as best I can, probably two to three times a week on average. And I've been doing that since the course opened. So I've had a pretty good view of the development, how things have been going since the course opened all the way through, well, this weekend. And I think it's... Open obvious how difficult love this at the start the season was I mean we had uncooperative weather Certainly a problem out here all the time. We had irrigation issues other mechanical issues. We had staffing issues and all that Right up front with a new transition from where we were before Certainly hurt the golf course was a really bad shape a lot of it probably be under control here, but that That is to say, and really kind of put into perspective how far it's come since then. I think since at least the middle of June, the course has been resurrected might be a good word to use. You can tell how hard the staff has been working at this, ungodly hours, I'm sure. And a lot of that, I think, is due to Mr. John Chirac, who was here. There he is. He's down the hall, the tall fellow. He's done an incredible job. I didn't know John before the season started. I'm not sure how many people did. But he's just been excellent putting together a team that's really brought this course back from the brink, which is where it was. I don't know if we do a key to the city or anything like that. But if we do, we should probably give it to Jared Polenski, who's on that crew. That guy works. He's there. I'm there a lot. Don't tell my wife that. But I'm there a lot. He's there more than I am. He's working 12, 14, maybe 16 hour days. And he has, I mean, you can see his blood, sweat and tears going into that golf course. The fairways are in some of the best condition I've ever seen. They're consistent. They're the deepest shade of green I recall. The greens, which were completely lost, probably dead, they've managed to bring that back as well. That in itself is a miracle. I think that the project to expand the greens to their original condition and shape has been awesome. They're just as good as they've ever been, in my opinion. It's the best I've seen as far as the Alaskan course goes. I mean, to jump from what was arguably the last place at the beginning of the year to where it is now is incredible. I know we lost, I know the golf course lost tournaments early on that usually generate a lot of revenue and things of that nature because of the conditions and the uncertainty around the golf course. I would expect nothing more than those to come back uh next season i'm not nuts he's doing a great job let's keep him doing it because it's working hello my name is dennis hammond um

BEEN IN THE VALLEY, WELL, 64 YEARS, THIRD GENERATION. MY GRANDPARENTS WERE PART OF THE COLONY CROWD THAT CAME TO TOWN. THEREFORE, THEIR NAMES ARE ON THAT PLAQUE OVER THERE IN THE QUAD. AND THAT'S MY ISSUE. SO THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO ORDINANCE 2605 ON THE REZONING FOR to land around the library and the quad and the parking lot and all that. So there's currently three lots planted there. My concern, I agree with changing the zoning to public use. But I think that those three lots need to get replanted. Currently, if you look at the map, the library is on its own little piece of property. The parking lot is tied into the same property as the quad, where the flags and the monuments and all of that are. That needs to change. With the new library, I can already see the parking lot creep coming, and that quad is very valuable to the city and the people in it, and I would hate to see that parking lot start taking over. So I would like to see you guys do whatever it takes to replant those. Parking lot should go to the library, one piece of property. That quad should be its own piece of property. And actually that third little piece, which is part of the quad actually, should all be tied together to two pieces of property. That's what makes sense to me when you look at the map and realize what's being done on those sites. So that's my two cents worth. Questions? Nope? Okay.

I'll get out of here if people want to sit down.

John Sharp.

Hello again, everybody. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for creating the Golf Course Advisory Board. Oh, John Sherrock, sorry. Thanks either way for creating the advisory board and choosing me to be a part of it. I will take this opportunity seriously and I hope to help guide the future with council decision making or whatever for the golf course. The golf course, It is zoned public property. The 144 acres that comprise the golf course is already owned by the city. It's not owned by the airport and it's not owned by the FAA. The land simply has restrictions placed upon its future use by the FAA. When you talk about the release of obligation, those facts and goals need to be accounted for. The release of obligation is not to be able to sell the land. The release is intended to remove the golf course land from future aeronautical development and preserve it as a public recreational area. That's all. The process is readily allowed and accepted by the FAA. A release of obligation for the purposes of small-scale private commercial development is something entirely different. and seemingly what the new airport appraisal is aimed at. Both the new appraisal and prior master plan state that most of the land in question is not developable for one reason or another and that the best use of the land is a golf course. That conclusion was made despite environmental and legal restrictions not being accounted for in the appraisal. The appraisal asks for existing environmental and regulatory information to be provided for accuracy. And I think that with all that applicable information, the golf course would overwhelmingly be the best use for both of the parcels. A hypothetical appraisal, a hypothetical rezone, an opinion letter from a former Alaska FAA compliance officer is not good enough to change the future landscape of Palma. And I don't think it's good enough to drastically change the golf course lease rate. For perspective purposes, the gross annual revenue of the entire airport complex, including all revenue sources, is less than $600,000 annually. A $844,000 lease rate for documented, unusable land just doesn't make sense to me. What has changed at the airport since the 2016 master plan when $7,000 was approved as an acceptable lease rate for the golf course tracks? The airport is not at capacity. Tie down spaces are available. There's at least 15 acres that are undeveloped and there are probably close to 40 acres of non aeronautical leases. Any decision or conversation by this council should be based on the reality and facts, not on hypotheticals, not on assumptions. And I ask that you please make sure you have accurate and complete information before making any decision. And remember that HDL Engineering is currently in the process of determining for protection for the golf course property, which was approved this July. Thank you.

Michelle, Brian?

Hello, my name's Michelle Grimes, and I'm a business owner in Palmer. So I just want to say a couple things. One is, it was not long ago that the golf course situation was simple. Hasn't been simple for a while now, but there was a time that it was. The golf course was run by a private operator, the golf course was profitable, and the FAA granted a reduced lease rate below fair market value because the land was used for public recreation. I am not talking about some golf course somewhere else on some other airport. I'm not talking about a hypothetical scenario. I'm talking about Palmer Golf Course located on Palmer Airport property and, well, Eagle Golf Course had the contract. It is documented in the airport master plan. This is verifiable information. It's on the city's own website. So I have heard repeatedly that currently there's no simple solutions for the golf course in the airport. But based on the city's own documentation, I don't believe that that is true. and so I think if you were independently if you're willing to independently review the information that's available I think you will see that things can be simple and sustainable and successful and regardless of what you choose if you pursue a city-run golf course if you go back to a RFP for an operations contract the goal and what the citizens expect and what they deserve is simple sustainable and successful okay I do want to say I want to thank the Council for forming the Golf Course Advisory Committee. I think that's a very positive step in the right direction. I want to thank the individuals who stepped up to serve on that committee. So I think this is a good step forward for everybody, right, to a better future. Also, on a more serious note, I do want to address what happened during public comment at the last meeting. I was not at the meeting, but I watched. And I was deeply disappointed by how a citizen was treated during the public comment period when he was speaking and sharing important concerns, and Mayor Cooper interrupted him and that I have been observing these council meetings, I can say that is the most un-American thing that I have seen happen in these council chambers, okay? So when a citizen comes before their officials to raise concerns, they should not have to wonder whether speaking candidly will bring any type of consequences. And an exchange like that has a chilling effect on public trust. So while I was disappointed in Mayor Cooper, I was also disappointed in everyone else on the council for staying silent during that exchange. No one expects you to be perfect. that would be very unfair and if anybody else were in your shoes sitting up there on the council they would not be perfect right everyone is going to make mistakes sometimes but that is why there is a group of you who sit up there on the council seat when someone falters it is up to the rest of you to step in and support each other thank you

Dean Bowie, Jensen Road Palmer, here to speak about the golf course. I'll keep it pretty simple. You know, when you're in favor of something, I don't care if you're arguing with your spouse or your two attorneys arguing case law in court, you're going to look for the things that will prove your point or your goals. That's just human nature. Recently, I'd sent all of you, not the city attorney and not the city manager or the city clerk, but the rest of you, sent you an email and I asked a very simple question. Are you in favor of the golf course or not? To me, if you're in favor of it, you're going to look for reasons to support it And if you're not in favor of it, you're going to be looking for reasons not to. One of you answered the question and said yes. They were in favor of the golf course. So my goal here today is to just ask that simple question. Mr. Allen, are you in favor of it? Not mic, not okay. So you guys can't respond individually and make a public announcement on if you're in favor or not. Okay, that would be great. Try to just answer it with a simple yes or no and not a whole lot of political yuppity-yup.

Thank you.

Thanks to the council for finally appearing to do in public what has only happened behind closed doors when it comes to golf course decisions. What will we see tonight? A repeal of the RFP motion passed months ago, a formal repeal of the release of obligation passed unanimously by this council, only to have the airport director tell us at a meeting a couple of months ago that it wouldn't even be filed until the end of 2027? What administration office was that decided in? And how many of the council's unanimous directions passed in public and reversed in the back room will it take to realize your motions passed in public and reversed elsewhere leave us frustrated and shaking our heads? Why is the city administration working behind the scene involving the golf course to bring it to failure? Thanks to whoever is behind the Facebook page Save the Palmer Golf Course for uncovering the city's multiple attempts to cause state and federal agencies to investigate our own golf course. It's still happening. I remember Councilman McCamper went to Kenai and talked to them about having softball fields at the end of their airport, and their response to him was, why are you even bringing it up? Just let it go. Our situation with VFAA is working fine. We have softball fields, no conflict. Well, it's still happening. Save the Ballmer Golf Course is an excellent read. It only asks questions that this council should be asking. Please take a look at that Facebook page if you don't look at anything else on social media. I expect that this evening there will be a public display of making a decision that has already been made. And please don't think the golf course community is slowing down or not showing its support because it's golf season, hunting season, and we're all out doing Alaska stuff. But we want to keep our course alive. Councilman Allen, when you swore in that night, you said you were an advocate of the golf course. Please show us. And Councilman Moser, when you added up all the comments you got and all the emails you got, you told us it was a very small percentage of Palmer. Perhaps a citizen's initiative on a ballot asking, do you want to expand the city airport at the expense of the city golf course would give us a good idea of what the whole city is feeling, or everyone that votes anyway. I would love to see that happen. Maybe too late for this year, but maybe next year. And, Councilman Collins, your statement at the end in Council comments one day was, you know, enjoy it while we can. It's much more sobering now that our admin continues to work behind the scenes with federal and state organizations to try to sabotage the Palmery Municipal Golf Course. Why has the council has voted so many times unanimously to support and continue the course, not directed the city to leave the golf course off of the master plan. And now I want to address some rumors because that's all we have access to. We don't get the behind the scenes stuff. I heard that the profit and loss statements that the city has put out about where we are financially with the golf course don't include wages for employees. If someone could address that, that would be nice. Thanks.

All those in favor? All those against? Board is ordered 26-005, amending the zoning map to revise zoning designation of tax parcels, 18-November-02-F-033-Charm-030, 17-November-02-F-4-001, 18-November-02-F-033-Charm-030,

Second.

I want to say that I support rezoning, but I do like the suggestion that I do pot against the wall.

I think it kind of logically makes sense Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

but I'd like to join the community development director to look into replanning that. Well, yeah, so there's two different issues, but

If we bought it, is that going to, is that going to change what we're doing now? If we're planting it so that the library and the parking lot aren't the same?

No, what it does is it creates both of them, probably, but it doesn't include us from then going back and changing all the land that we did.

Then we re-bought that and we put the library and parking lot on, and the remaining lots that are parking lots. Okay. Two seconds.

Okay.

Yes, sir? Yeah, . I was curious after the years

on finding zoning.

So I see that they addressed this issue back in April, but we're now addressing it in September. So I'm curious why it's highlighted. The previous chair?

Thank you. Much of it depends upon when it was actually down in London, you have to enter the city council or the city court to put it in there. The concur, it really put it out in the open. So that was my understanding as chair.

And I don't know why I handled it so well. And that was my question. We asked for help. book and sent out to the property owners in the area.

I'm not trying to slow anything down. As a matter of fact, I guess part of my discussion process is how to streamline things in the future and how to expedite things. But I didn't know if there was set code where it has to sit around for 90, 120, 180 days or some kind of math that

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

And just, you know, even our process, so this was actually introduced two meetings ago, and then I put it on the next meeting, and normally we would introduce it, and then that's probably during the next meeting. You have to give us 20 days to send us a response, which, of course, if you put it on the next meeting, that's only two weeks. So that's also whether it's that way. It's going to be two out of 20 days required.

I agree with the idea of wanting to save part of that property for green space area.

I think that's important.

I don't know if replatting it accomplishes that, but I can still have half of the flat units look like a lot and half not. So I wonder if before we direct anyone to look into replatting, if we should get more information about It would have been at the expense and effort of the human retirement that it accomplishes what we may want to accomplish as a city council. So that would just be my clarification. That was my clarification.

When is the best way to protect the quad from encroaching, you know, what order can you protect the quad from encroaching right now?

It's more like redrawing the property lines. We have three property lines, three properties there, and then we combine the three into two. So it's not like it's like a new plan, but you're right. So that would be the information.

If you agree with it, eventually if you agree with it, we'll probably kind of give it back. I'm going to have the community development director go back in and then work it out. How do we...

I'm clear.

Deputy Mayor Ocantara. Yes. Council Member Carrington. Yes. Council Member Moser. Yes. Council Member Collins.

Yes.

Council Member Allen.

Yes.

Council Member Graham.

yes and mayor cooper yes it is unanimous and approved thank you we'll have a public hearing on ordinance 26006 amending the zoning map to revise the zoning designation of lots 18 and 17 block 3 aarc number one subdivision from low density residential r2 to commercial limited anybody who wishes to come forward please speak about that piece of property rezone

Hi, I'm Dana Rumpelt with Handymat LLC and also Lavender Survey and Mapping. We are requesting this rezone to add a buffer between the commercial space at Brightmire gas station between the existing residential Lavender Survey and Mapping. It's been working out of the house for eight years. We kind of are like a house. zone is going to affect all of the businesses in the future but we are asking for commercial limited and it does meet the goals of the city I think chapter 3 and chapter 4 the community vision bringing professional businesses into the community so that's what we're trying to do We already have the, we meet the requirements for commercial limited and parking and the landscaping, et cetera.

Thank you. Any questions? Thank you, ma'am. Anybody else want to speak to this reason? Hearing none, we'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. Which is the council?

Move to approve.

Discussion? Yes ma'am.

Looking at this replotting, I understand that across the street that just in the last year or so, we did take the old profiles property, which was a child care center, and change it to commercial limited. However, with that being said, this is in a residential area. I do concur with the idea of the buffering with the Fred Meyers. That's understandable. But what I'm concerned about is what about five years from now when you're going to sell the house? We've already got low housing within the city of Homer. Many of you ran last year. on the fact that we did not have a sufficient low-density housing here in Palma. And so I'm just afraid that there's going to be some commercial free, and in future years, I don't think that... I'm not in favor of this, to be quite honest, and I'm worried about, in five years, the property sold, will there be...

really doesn't belong in that area so that that's my concerns anybody else yes ma'am a couple thoughts um so i thought a lot about this issue um through the park there the budgie park which gets a lot of use of my understanding we um kids covered that serves meals to kids in the summer that's their where they serve the most meals also with the bright lights literacy project they mentioned that that park is where they get the biggest turnout so i think the area is really important for the part of the population that is using those services and would like to see that not upset by all commercial moving into that area. On the other hand, so I guess I understand some of those concerns. On the other hand, when I was talking, it is part of the Central Business District. Sorry. It's within that area. I was driving through those neighborhoods, running errands, and just noticed the number of those old homes that have been turned into businesses. I often am not paying attention to that. But there's been a lot of them that have been rezoned in that neighborhood. So to see the property still being used, I mean, I think it's kept the aesthetic of the neighborhood. They were kept as these old properties are keeping the homes up nicely, given ones that I think could be kind of expensive to maintain given their age for like tenancy purposes. So I am in favor of the rezone, but do think we should keep an eye i guess or maybe need to make some decisions about how much of that area we want and melt with business opportunities because we do want business in palmer and we want access to businesses in palmer um but also maintaining uh residences in an area where they can walk to these amenities that we have there so i am in favor but am um concerned or are interested in moving forward.

I also have concerns. I know that that area has a lot of pedestrian traffic as it is. My council member from Mosier had stated if it is changed to commercial limited, are there protections in what we're resuming it to in order to keep the charm of that area so that it does not turn into, frankly, another bank in downtown. Because, yes, the current tenant would be operating a house or however it is right now. If that house gets sold, it turns into another business. I have reservations about that specifically because it is directly across from the park and the future use of that land I don't see it clearly set in stone where it is going to making the charm of Palmer. I think one of the things I really like about the downtown area is, yes, we do have a lot of businesses that are operating out of some of those old homes and old buildings, is that they're operating under the old homes and buildings. So it's really good to see those get knocked down and have more modern facades put up in their place, and especially directly across from the

Thank you. I have a concern, and I'm sure you've all looked at Title 17. Currently, the business that's being proposed is probably a great business to fit into that space. but if you look at other things that potentially could be built there if the building was sold, convenience store, bicycle sales, office supplies, butcher, farmer's market, shoe store, book stationery store, pet shop, antique store, home accessory store, online store, itinerant vendors, a restaurant, ice cream store, urgent care medical complex, health practitioner, a drug pharmacy, a daycare, a personal care beauty nail spa tattoo shop, a laundromat, exercise facilities, printing post office facility, screen printing, taxidermy shop, bowling, billiards, arcade, machine shop, food bank, and the list kind of goes on and on. So that's a concern I have. My thought would be that this might be better to have a conditional use permit, essentially. that we can go in and be very specific with the business that is requiring to be or asking to be on this place. And I don't think we can have that many restrictions on a CL. So my suggestion would be conditional use permit. You could probably get that done, and then that's specific, and it's timely for just one business. So the next business that comes in will have to answer the same thing. Those are my comments. Yes, ma'am.

I like that idea. That addresses some of the concerns I had. I guess I also like the bigger picture, because when folks come in and ask for variances or rezoning on the properties in the same area are we using the same standards for each person that uh comes i mean legally we are right we're applying the same statutes and et cetera but i guess i i'm a little bit of fairness as far as um property owners being treated similarly if they're in similar neighborhoods Um, but so like I said, that's a bigger picture and I guess bigger than what we're being asked to decide here. So specifically on this, I think the conditional use permit, um, would allow this business to come in. I think it is a decent fit. It sounds like it would be interesting traffic for a change to the nature of the property there. Um, and give future city council members the opportunity to review that. Thank you.

Any other comments? No. Correct.

Council member Allen?

Yes.

Council member Collins?

I'm sorry, I need to clarify. So we are asking, this is on whether to be the result?

A yes vote changes it from R2 to CL.

And if the commission needs to commit that, we need to go through the process again?

That has to go to .

No.

Council Member Moser? No. Deputy Mayor Alcantara?

Yes.

Council Member Carrington?

No.

Council Member Graham? No. Mayor Cooper?

No.

It is not approved. Thank you.

Public hearing ordinance number 26007, amending a portion of Palmer Municipal Code by eliminating building setbacks in Palmer Municipal Code chapters 17.44.060A-C, Airport Commercial District, 17.48.060A-C. I, Airport Industrial District, and 17.49060A-M, Airport Mixed-Use District, and amending lot coverage in Chapter 17.44050, Airport Commercial District, 17.48050, Airport Industrial District, and 17.49.050, Airport Mixed-Use District. Anybody would like to come forward and speak to that? Raise your hand. Seeing no one, back to the council. Anybody like to have maybe a staff report or anything on that?

I would like to .

Please have the airport . Hello.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council. This is a result request out of the airport. There's a couple of intentions behind this. One of them is to obviously create a more dense development environment out of the airport so we can get more roof space over the current lots that we have. As you've seen, the destruction that the wind creates out of the airport, more roof space is a needed thing out there. The other thing that it also does is links the city code to airport development language, bringing in an obstacle-free area. We're also bringing it in line with current city zoning, I guess, standard, where the current city zoning standard is a 25-foot setback from potentially a 10-foot setback. The idea is to create a more advanced development environment that creates more flexibility for a developer in the airport and in turn it allows the developer more flexibility for where they're placing the building and in turn at the very end

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Council member Allen. Yes. Council member Collins.

Yes. Council member Moser.

Yes.

Deputy Mayor Alcantara.

Yes. Council Member Carrington? Yes. Council Member Graham? Yes. Mayor Cooper?

Yes.

It is unanimous and approved. Thank you.

Moving on, Item I, Action. Member Endo. Action Memorandum 26083 authorizing City Manager to enter into a continued service agreement with Motorola Solutions related to Palmer Police Department's radio communication infrastructure support and maintenance between the dates of July 1, 2026 and June 20, 2027 with a semi-annual payment cycle for a total of $66,691.02, which is the Council's Questions? Asking for a staff report on this. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Councilman.

So just want to overview what this is. This is a support of a, we had a five-year lease purchase agreement through Motorola for our radio consoles, which allows us for the dispatching. It also has the variant logger, which logs both the radio traffic and the telephone traffic. It's the recording device for that. This service just provides ongoing maintenance to the system itself, the infrastructure, and all the things that support that system.

Yes, please.

Is any portion of this covered by the Emanual Funding or grants?

That's a good question for Whitney. I don't believe so because that has specific language within it where under the statute there have to be certain parameters. I don't think this does. I'll find out with the faculty.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thanks, Chief. I'm just curious if this is a

Correct. So the way it's billed, we just received a bill in June. It's billed mid-year, and so it will be for July 1st, carry-in.

this is to approve action number item 26083 council member allen yes council member mosher yes council member carrington yes deputy meryl cantra yes council member graham Yes. Council Member Collins. Yes. And Mayor Cooper.

Yes.

It is unanimous and approved.

Thank you. Action Member 26085. Confirm the employment of the new golf course advisor committee members Deborah Meyer, Ken Irby, Stephen Lawyer, Antonio Weiss, and John Chirock. Which is the council?

Move to approve. Second.

Any questions, accolades? Yes, sir.

Yeah, accolades for sure. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you to these citizens and just outside the boundary citizens that are stepping forward to help us with this. I mean, obviously, it's been a tumultuous year with the World Health Corps situation. I think I know at least three of these five people. Personally, I think their hearts are in the right place to make sure we have a 36-year

I want to thank everybody. What I'm going to do, I will direct the community development director to contact everybody and so that we can get a meeting set up either this week or maybe next week. And then we'll get started on this. I'm looking forward to being at that meeting. Congratulations to the two of you that are here. Thank you.

Wait for me to have a vote.

Oh, yeah, sure.

I guess we ought to vote for these guys. Council Member Allen.

Yes.

Council Member Carrington. Yes. Council Member Collins. Yes. Council Member Graham. Yes. Council Member Moser. Yes. Deputy Mayor Alcantara.

Yes.

Mayor Cooper. Yes.

It is unanimous and approved.

Thank you. Moving on, new business, resolution 26021, a resolution of the Palmer City Council authorizing the city manager to apply to the state of Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation for a loan from the Alaska Drinking Water Fund in the amount not to exceed $1,500,000 for the upgrade of wells four and five. This is the council. Any questions? Yes, sir.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. On page 115, I'm going to guess that the dates of that will be changed to April, September 2006. So on the month resolution itself.

Oh, yeah. When I finalize it for our signatures, I always disclose dates. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

any other questions madam clerk i'm sorry i'm sorry mr allen just could you um remind us which exactly which was before i don't remember um i don't think they're up not they're not up on the hill that's like one wait not mr what's in here oh or matt Thank you guys. All right. Did we vote on that? Sure.

Council Member Moser? Yes. Council Member Graham?

Yes.

Council Member Collins?

Yes.

Council Member Carrington?

Yes.

Council Member Allen?

Yes.

Deputy Mayor O'Campra?

Yes. Mayor Cooper? Yes.

It is unanimous and approved.

Thank you. Resolution 26022, a resolution city of Palmer approving the council's priority transportation projects for inclusion in the MVP 2027-2030 Transportation Improvement Program Committee to provide the required non-federal share for projects selected for federal funding, which is the council.

Move to approve. Second.

Any questions? Remember, we literally have eight projects on it, four projects that will be done this next year. What this does, it's a requirement that we have a resolution approved by the council saying that we actually will have the matching funds for this. If that does not happen, we don't get the projects. Yes, sir.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you for all your work on this. I think it's time to get $7.5 million in road upgrades for 690,000, something like that, a pretty good deal. And I appreciate you going back to the city and . Thank you. Thank you.

Anything else? Yes.

Yes, sir. Sorry. I want to thank Mr. Mayor as well. I've seen the number of meetings that you must have had to attend and folks you talked to. And in my head, I was thinking, how many hours and it's bringing a lot of value to the city, like Mr. Alcantara said, for not much on the part of the city of Palmer. So I do really appreciate your work on this.

Thank you. Mr. Allen.

Yeah, just that this is something, getting these roads paved is something that should have happened a long, long time ago. There's a lot of citizens that are going to be very happy about this. And for us to get this kind of opportunity to bring in this kind of money to get this kind of stuff done, that's such a...

councilmember Collins yes councilmember Graham yes councilmember Allen yes councilmember Carrington yes councilmember Moser yes deputy mayor Alcantara Yes. And Mayor Cooper.

Yes.

It is unanimous and approved.

Thank you. Resolution 26023, appointing election officials for the City of Palma regular election on Tuesday, October 6th, 2026. Which is the council? Move to approve.

Second.

Thank you. Madam Clerk, would you like to talk? This is yours.

This is a pretty boilerplate resolution. We do it every year. It's required by code. These ladies and gentlemen that have served for many years, we do have one newbie, which I'm looking forward to, Ms. Hunt. And so they're an integral part to having a fair election. And so I would just like to please ask counsel to approve.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just for the record, I mean, not on the ballot this year, but I know, like, half the people that are on as election officials, this money, does this go also to pay somebody to be here from the September 21st date through the October 6th date? Are some of these eight folks here?

Yes, two of the people that are on here will be serving as our early election people, early election officials. That's the word I was looking for.

And one last question. Sure. Early voting never exists on the weekend. Is that correct? That is correct. Even the final weekend before the October 6th election.

We've never had it open. We've never had it in the past. I'm not going to say we'll never have it in the future because I've thought about it.

Eight to five Monday through Friday.

Yeah, eight to five Monday.

And the last day is Monday, October 5th.

Correct.

For early. For early. For everybody. Anything else for the clerk?

Council Member Allen?

Yes.

Council Member Carrington? Yes. Council Member Moser? Yes. Council Member Collins? Yes. Deputy Mayor Alcantara?

Yes.

Council Member Graham? Yes. Yes. And Bear Cooper.

Yes.

It is unanimous and approved.

Thank you. If the council doesn't object, I'd like to take a five-minute break.

I don't have time.

Just the responses to the ordinances that I gave you. Thank you. Just the responses to the ordinances that I gave you. And the letter from Mr. Robeson. Tom, give us the letter.

Moving on. Audience participation again. Again, council meeting rules protect your right to testify and be heard even if others in the room disagree with you. Council meeting rules also ensure that those attending can express their views if they do not interfere with the rights of others to see and hear the proceedings. At all times, the orderly quorum will be maintained in keeping with the civility and dignity of the legislative process. Please be respectful during my participation. No disruption to city business or arbitrary comments or threats of any kind will be allowed. Individuals who do not follow these guidelines will be removed. Any threats against others could result in criminal prosecution. Please come in. Please come and sign in. We have the sign-up sheet here, so anybody who wishes to come forward and speak in live conversation, please do so.

My name is Joel Stefanski, and first of all, I'd like to welcome special guest Senator Johnson here in the room tonight. Thank you for being here. It means a lot. That was that guy that was offended with my First Amendment rights two weeks ago. He tried to be shushed. And all I was doing was pointing out the things that have happened in this governing board here in the last year. And I'm going to say them again. There's been a lot of irregularities that have happened. There's been a lot of lies and misinformation. There's been misinformation from our manager and the airport manager. and i i told you guys the history last june the 25th when the airport manager told me the airport is going to take over the golf course it all started with me guys and from that time there's been so many lies and i still haven't had any apologies for many of the council members recognizing the lives You guys have tried to run the golf course contractor out of business. You initiated a false investigation on the liquor license, a false investigation on the Department of Labor. You tried to scare the new council members. These managers did on the airport was out of compliance. I mean, the golf course is out of compliance. And now you have some fake numbers on the value of the golf course. And you really did a horrible thing to Eagle Golf Management Company. And you told, those two people have told, had misinformation, misinformation, meeting after meeting. And then you had Open Meeting Act violations in an executive session. You guys made decisions that should have never been made. And now we have a lawsuit. The last thing I want to do is sue the taxpayers. You know, we shouldn't have to have lawsuits, folks, if people are just honest for once and truthful and transparent. Where is the transparency from this governing body? You know, I grew up in New England. I know all about U.S. history, American history, and how this country was formed. That was taught from grade school. You guys have just demolished the very foundation of a governing body. by not exposing the lies and telling the truth. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Maybe else we can come forward.

Why not? I'm John Sherrock, and I just wanted to say, when you guys talk about the golf course and moving forward, regardless of which direction, is chosen if you guys want to have a city round course great you know i'm sure we'll all support you and if you want to go an rfp route i'm sure that'd be fine we'd all support you that direction too but you know be transparent about it and you know up front you know no hidden meanings no you know specialness out of the other just a nice public conversation seems to work great for many other topics

Anybody else?

My name is Julie Real and I just wanted to say I'm pro golf course. I think that it is an added benefit to our community and I really encourage you to see it as such and to really embrace it as something that we can give to our future. The airport is a great thing but we have lots of airports and I don't think it adds value to our entire community. I drive by both all the time and I see a lot more people spending time at the golf course than at the airport. There are certainly people who are enjoying the airport, but there's a lot more, this year there's a lot more families at the golf course than I've ever seen. So I just really want to encourage you to think about our whole community and make decisions based on that, not just on some bottom line financial. Thanks.

Drew Froehling. First, I'd like to invite everyone up to the high school football game at Palmer next Friday, where JD is 4-0 right now. We've got three goose eggs on the board. And our varsity is 4-0 as well. And the games are at 4 and 7 PM. But mainly, what I want to talk about is what, to me, just seems far too dystopian to really be something that can be happening. It started off with the lies, which have come mainly from two people. One of them was not sitting here, and another was sitting in the back. They have perpetrated these lies, and so much so that some of these lies, our very own members of council have then re-perpetrated two members in email exchanges. You, Penny Moser, were one of them. You lied about the liquor license, and we caught all of you on this. And again, nobody will acknowledge any of this. And now, because if I had to put a book titled this, it would be a series of unfortunate events. And that's truly what this is. And now, our city manager, who is managing a town of roughly 5,500 people, who was already being paid more than the mayor of Anchorage and the city manager of Anchorage, we just gave her a pay raise to lie to us, to lie to all of us. And we said it was OK. There was some justification behind there. And some of you thought it was a logical idea I want to know what your justification behind this was to pay someone who lies to us constantly more. It just doesn't make sense to me. And quite frankly, it pisses me off. So, I think it's a disgrace. I think you guys owe us so much more of a service. And I do not have much faith in any of your decisions at all. I will just come out and flat out say it.

Anybody else? Being known, we'll close. I anticipate to bring back to the council for a committee to hold the status and discussion of the next steps regarding the Palmer Municipal Golf Course.

is to approve the motion to go into committee of the whole council member allen yes council member carrington yes council member collins yes council member graham yes council member moser yes deputy mayor alcantara yes mayor cooper yes you're in committee of the whole thank you

I believe that we have a, the city manager had a report that she was going to read, an introduction of what's going on.

Oh, there. There's going to be feedback that we know will work very well.

So we're going to have to step back out with her. Just a little brief history. Between 1976 and 1985, the city of Palmer accepted federal funding from the FAA to acquire land from the Palmer Municipal Airport. As a condition of accepting those funds, the property became subject to federal grant assurances governing its use. The regulatory framework governing the non-aeronautical use of federally allocated land is established through federal statutes, airport grant assurances, FAA orders, FAA advisory circulars, and FAA policy guidance. In approximately 1989, the FAA subsequently permitted the city a temporary use of a portion of the airport property for the Palmer Municipal Golf Course on a non-aeronautical basis, provided the use did not interfere with airport operations. the golf course has operated under this approval without interfering with airport operations and still does. In 2008, the city contracted with Follett and Associates to determine the fair market value for non-aeronautical uses of airport property. The report issued by Follett and Associates indicates it was appropriate for use for 10 to 15 years, and that was in 2010. The city relied on that analysis to establish lease rates for the golf course at a reduced agricultural rate. In July, 2025, The city issued an RFP and contracted with BBG Real Estate Services to conduct an updated fair market value analysis. This valuation established an approximate fair market value rent of $844,000 annually for the golf course property in its entirety. In 2026, the city assumed direct operation of the golf course. Also in 2026, the Palm Beach Municipal Airport began The plan will evaluate the city's current and future needs, development opportunities, and long-term financial sustainability. Recently, August 27, John Diamanti, Nathaniel Lutz, both Anna and Leslie from Lanny Bennett, our city attorneys, and I met with FAA representatives Molly Fierro and Dave Sanchez to discuss the airport master plan, a potential future release of obligation for the property occupied by the golf course, and operational considerations associated with the golf course use. During this meeting, the FAA expressed its preference that the golf course property remain under airport ownership, retain its aeronautical designation, and not be released from its aeronautical obligations. FAA representatives reiterated their current stance that the aeronautical interest in the property should not be extinguished. The FAA explained that its preference is based in part on the significant federal financial investment it made in developing and improving the Palmer Municipal Airport, and that the FAA is required to protect that investment and preserve the property for future airport needs as applicable. They also recognize the importance of the golf course to the Palmer community and the value of maintaining community support and goodwill for the airport, which is important. by Palmer Airport, including employment, small businesses, aviation-related activities, and the airport's potential for future economic development. Along with that, the FAA recommended that the city continue the airport master plan process, which is expected to take approximately two to three years from initiation to completion. That plan was entered into the planning stages in early 2025 and will provide a comprehensive evaluation of the airport's current and future needs, and it will be important in determining the long-term need for the property in which the golf course sits. Moving the plan forward is important for several reasons, including providing the city and the FAA with a documented planning basis for evaluating potential release of obligation. The plan will help determine whether the golf course property is needed now or in the future aviation needs, rather than evaluating a release based primarily on the community or economic value. The city's most current master plans are online from 2016 to 2009 on our website. The city further advised us that evaluating potential release of obligation for the golf course property as a part of the master plan process would be appropriate and that any potential release during study during this process should take place. The city could pursue a formal release of obligation following the completion of the plan as well. A release of obligation occurs when the FAA determines that federally obligated property is no longer needed for airport purposes and releases that property from the requirement that it remain available for airport or aeronautical use. If a release is approved, the city could retain or dispose of the property subject to applicable FAA requirements regarding fair market value and the disposition of those proceeds. As part of a formal request, the city would need to demonstrate that the property is not needed now or in the foreseeable future, and justification must be aviation-related and cannot be based solely on community or economic benefit. And if the property is ultimately approved for release and disposal, any of the sales would be subjected to all ethical requirements regarding fair market value. What that means is you have to get a current fair market value of that land, and it's either returned to the FAA or deposited into the airport operating budget. We also discussed an interim non-aeronautical use possibility, what they refer to as a waiver. And under this approach, the property would remain under airport ownership and retain its aeronautical obligations so that the FAA could approve the property for non-aeronautical use for a defined period, much like a lease arrangement. The FAA advised that if the property remains under airport ownership and is leased, the airport would be expected to receive fair market value unless a reduced rate can be adequately justified under applicable FAA requirements. This could provide an interim option for continuing wealth course operations while preserving the property for future airport purposes. It would not, however, resolve the long-term question of whether the property should remain aeronautically obligated or not. Separate from the long-term question of whether the property should eventually be released, the City must determine how it wishes to operate the wealth course moving forward. Based on the City's discussion with the FAA, The council has two initial operational options, and neither are simple to plug and play. We can't go anything based on what we did previously. The city could issue an RFP seeking a contractor to manage and operate the golf course. If council chooses this option, city staff and legal counsel will need to develop an RFP and management agreement that could comply with all applicable FAA requirements and state and local laws, including requirements associated with procurement, This management arrangement would differ from the city's previous structure and align more closely with municipal best practices and the law. We can also do continued operations throughout the city for the golf course. And regardless of what path the council chooses, we're ready to make that happen. The use of the federal obligated airport property must comply with FA requirements regardless of the under either operating model is whether the golf course can qualify for the reduced lease rate based on community benefit. The FAA provided clarification regarding the circumstances it would consider when evaluating a request for less than fair market value. These considerations include whether revenue is actually being generated from the golf course and whether the airport receives a percentage of gross revenues generated through the operations, like a percentage of the concession the golf course generates revenue under either option one or option two, that airports should not charge a reduced lease rate. The FAA further advised that previous financial history will be taken into consideration when evaluating these issues. If a city or a contractor seeks to reduce the lease rate based on community benefit, the FAA indicated that the operation would need to function more like a not-for-profit. model, and this would be a change in the business model for the golf course, obviously. And such a change would need to be explained and supported as part of the city or contractor's justification for reduced rental rate based on community benefit. The FAA also advised that any proposal charging less than fair market value would require quantitative justification for the reduced rate. In other words, the reduced rate should not be based simply on a general assertion that the golf course provides a community benefit, we would need to provide the financial and other quantitative information sufficient to support and justify that reduction. Based on the correspondence by the FAA and the discussion during the meeting, the FAA reiterated that its preference is for the financial outcome for the airport to receive fair market value compensation for the property unless we can adequately justify a reduced rate that is consistent with their requirements. The airport master plan will help inform the city's long-term decisions regarding the property, while the council may provide direction on the golf course operating model as that planning process moves forward.

Any questions to the city manager? Yes, ma'am.

Based on our conversations with the representatives of the FAA, whether we went with RFP or continued it as the goal course is to be managed, would that factor in at all to a request for release of obligation as far as weighing like one being a better position to approach the FAA for that request or not?

No, it would be relatively the same. It wouldn't have any factor on that, since it would be FAA compliant. And going through the airport master planning is really where we need to identify how it would be released, or if it could be released.

A couple other questions. I forget. I was told to speak directly into the microphone, so I'm not looking at you. That's why. You said that FAA stated a preference for maintaining the property for airport, or future aeronautical use, potentially. When you say preference, was that like, we're not going to entertain anything else, or this is what we prefer, but if you can present us with something extraordinary that we're not seeing right now. I'm not sure that the word preference, like how strongly they were communicating that, I guess, as far as...

They have communicated to me multiple times in email and in regular conversation that the FAA's preference, and they use that word that remain ergonomically designated to protect its financial interest and investment in the airport. They also caveat that we can certainly try for a formal release of obligation, but the current stance is that it remains under airport ownership. And then last question.

On the lease rate, Talk about, you know, if there's revenue generated, that a percentage of that would go to airport funds. So, I may just didn't follow it all, but, so if the, say for example, if the golf course is breaking even over a period of time, would nothing then need to go to the airport funds necessarily? But if we're showing a history of generating revenue beyond costs, but then a percentage of that would need to go, like, is it flexible from year to year, or would it have to be like, okay, we're going to, based on what's happened over the last 10 years, we can afford to pay $20,000 a year as a lease rate. I mean, like, how are they going to calculate that exactly?

I don't know how far back they'll go. All I was informed was that they will take gross revenue in the determination of whether or not to reduce the lease rate or not. It's important that they emphasize gross revenue.

And if I could jump in here, too. So you're asking really good questions, and these are very, very, like, regulation and policy-specific questions to the FAA. extensive documents published in the federal register and in like bulletins, announcements, anything like that. As I sit here today, I don't know like legally what the specific answer is to those questions. I think, because I'm sharing this information because I was in that meeting. I think that the general position of the FAA is, listen, if this golf course is profitable, this operation is profitable, then the airport should receive a portion of those profits. I imagine that that's consistent with the FAA-specific revenue policy, but I was not in a position at this point to advise what the actual specifications are of that policy. But that was like the general gist of the communication of the FAA to the representatives of the city who were in that meeting. So I think that... maybe like good direction to, questions to ask and direction to provide would be to run basically what does that look like based on different revenue models that you've seen generated through the golf course. But I mean, it's also, it's a question to consider like, it's for the council to consider moving forward and also for your golf course advisory committee to assess the extent that they are able to, they know those operations quite well. So I guess it's a long way of saying it's a very complicated question at this point. We don't know the exact specific line item compliance requirements. Those exist in policy and in regulation. We've got to pull them out and figure out what that actually looks like in real time. So I'm not making it easy for you? When does the federal government ever make anything easy?

on the lease rate, when would they expect us to have that framework figured out and some kind of proposal made? Like, can we continue on the current lease rate for the coming year, for example? Or is something needing to be done more quickly?

The FAA has the newest Fair Market Value Analysis Appraisal Report, so they know what it is. They didn't give me a timeline. They extended the agricultural rate through 2026, so we're good through December 31st. I'm sure if we worked with them and said, hey, we need a little bit more time, they would grant us that time, but I don't know how much more.

So I think that some of the concern that has come up regarding the release of obligation and the airport master plan, correct me if I'm not understanding the process, right, because I think I am. Essentially, in order for us to even look at a release of obligation, you have to either be in the process with the airport master plan and get to the point where we see that we could justify to the FAA that a release of obligation is We have to get the end of that master plan. But regardless, the golf course has to remain on that airport master plan while it is under FAA obligation. Is that correct? That's correct. Follow-up question. I think Councilmember Collins hit 90% of the stuff that I had rattling around in my brain. Another thing that I had heard brought up multiple times as far as justification for release of obligation was under the recreational use for IV-B. Last time I looked at that, I believe they changed, the FAA had made a change to what they would allow as a release of obligation under that section. Is that correct?

That's correct. So, I don't know the exact word of what you're referencing, but the FAA made a full change in February of 2026 around the parameters of the release of obligation, and those are posted online, which is why I had to retool the release of obligation process that I had submitted to the lawyers earlier this year. We have to go back and actually change it all around.

Okay. Next question, kind of pivoting from the release of obligation. Do we know what, so right now, the documents that I'm looking at as far as the current budget for revenues and the current expenditure, everything's fairly on point. The revenue is about 10% off of how much of the year has been completed. We're at 58.33% of the year completed, and the total revenue discounting matches about 48.25% of the current budget. So we're a little under for revenue there. And then as far as the expenditures go, at 58.33% of the year completed for expenditures, we're at 59.27%, which is any minutes. not a whole lot when you're looking at the grand sum of everything that's on here. We've got stuff that we've only used 24% of the total budget and the others that we've used 99. So obviously there's some retooling there if the city continues to do the management. But with that being said, what was the total golf course expenditures and revenues? Actually, not revenues, I'm sorry. Just the total golf course expenditures. under the management contract. I don't, I'd have to pull that for you. Do you have, just do you have to? Bearing in mind, obviously, the city operating health force is going to be vastly different than it being handled by a management. And it sounds like with the city managing it and having full, I guess, full view of everything that comes into and out of the budget for the golf course specifically, it sounds like seeing that revenue and seeing if we did come over, like this other revenue at 1.3 million with our tenders at 1.1-ish, that that kind of difference in quote-unquote profit, which I hate to use the term in government, but the profit on that, essentially, the FAA would expect to go back into the trade war, correct?

That's correct. A percentage of the concessions would have to go back into the year four where they would in budgets.

Ms. Gina? Yes, I have some numbers here that I can give counsel. it was able to pull something back to 2021 so 21 to 25 actuals you'll have revenue and then you'll also have the expenses and you can see you can hear essentially 2026. um beyond that i

I wholeheartedly support that we continue with the master plan. And then through that master plan, while that process is working forward, my hope is that the Gulf Coast Advisory Committee is able to work closely with the airport committee as well in order to identify if a moment comes up while we're in the planning process to actually pursue at least a publication before that master plan is set into general research . Do you have another one? Yes, but also no. So I just want to be clear on this. For the total expenditures in 2025, total expenditures for the golf course was $683,681. Correct. And same line, same number, $700,095. $795,461 in 2024, is that correct? Correct. Okay, thank you. Mr. Allen. Yeah, just this, I don't want to overly simplify this, but

Is there ever been a discussion, really, where we just say, here's a bottom line number to get the FAA to completely advocate part of what you guys talked about, that they didn't become like, all right, give us $7 million, whatever, and we're out. Is there anything like that?

That is determined through the release of obligation and a fair market evaluation of the property. If we got the release tomorrow... we would need to get fair market valuation. I'm sure that we could use the one that we just did. That's the number that the FAA could accept. They also may ask us to get a second appraisal to compare. And then they can take whichever number. But that is, it's no set in stone based on fair market value. And John, you want to come up with that?

You know, the FAA was not willing to entertain or put forward, like, well, that's not acceptable to us, like, during the meeting. Okay. You know, they want to see a proposal, and then the proposal is where the rubber meets the road. That's my understanding of that process.

But given that you were in the meeting, I mean, did you get the sense that

I have the sense that the FAA follows its regulations and its directives with respect to a release of obligation process and that as far as the FAA's ability to work with the city to advance what I think is a mutual understanding of the benefit of the golf course, they are willing to sit in that room and have that discussion and have that negotiation i didn't get the sense that it was like a you know futile process if you will i did get the sense that it is a complicated process and that it is going to take you know the city is in the initial phases of developing that updated airport master plan um it is in the process with those the contractors who are doing that airport master plan talking to stakeholders and evaluating all of the economic property, et cetera, et cetera, implications that arise in the context of the airport. Those two proposals were approved by the city at the July 14th meeting. And the process is laid out really extensively in the packet if you want to see it later. Um, but you're right that like dialing it back out, you know, from a thousand foot view, there are, it's just like, you know, there are simple sort of thematic topics to touch on. And it's when you get down to like the actual nitty gritty, um, minutia of those topics that some of these questions arise. And I definitely think that Mr. Dumas could speak to some of those in the process. Certainly. Yeah.

We've been here.

Yeah. Thank you.

I'm happy to see you. For the five-year look back, I've said many times, and if George Collin was here, he'd agree with me, that 2025 was a phenomenal golf course year. So it's kind of not an apples-to-apples comparison, 25 versus 26. You've got to go kind of back to 24 and 23 in comparison. We had a record year last year. Sorry. because, not to use a Caddyshack reference, but we're not the first gopher through the hole. And, you know, they're doing this in Huntsville, Alabama, in Cincinnati, Ohio, and other places, and I'm sure that John, whether he's been on the corn with them or if he can actually make a city-sanctioned trip out to figure out how it's been done in other places, I think there would probably be some value to that. I don't think we absolutely have to go back to private management, but I think somebody, historically, not me, could go back and say, hey, when the city ran the golf course from 90 to 98, 99, 2000, here's what happened and here's how much... after year. I think I heard somebody point out that the airport revenue is around $600,000 a year, on which you debate that or say that's not a true statement. And the golf course revenue looks like we're trying to say it's around $1.3, $1.3, $1.7 million. So there something to be pointed out that the golf course's staying power and revenue generation has been something that to look forward to and I think along with Council Member Allen's comments of a us where we have a golf course for the next 50 years instead of worrying about all these other pieces and potential of taking out hole 3 and taking out hole 11 and etc etc may be the better or a potential way to look at it what I hope we can do about city managers is have parallel tracks and talk about for the next few months without saying hey city management is bad private management is I'll track scenarios of, hey, if you do that, here's one way forward, here's another way forward. Whatever the deadline is, as was pointed out, we'll have to make a decision on whether we want to do 2027 under city management or try to be out there and try to make this thing move forward this way. So I guess I wasn't really having a question for John specifically. and what we're trying to do here at Palmer and what they've done in Huntsville and Cincinnati and other places, if you know.

There's right now, I've seen, Mr. Alcantara, sorry, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, members of council, Mr. Mayor. To answer your question, Mr. Alcantara, there are, I can say number, it's around five or six, there might be a few more golf courses that are on airport property. The phrase that comes up in every one of the leases that I've seen, and again, like the city manager's already said, these are two issues. We have a short-term issue of lease rates, and we have a long-term issue of where the property, what the ultimate disposition of the property is. Speaking to the short-term lease rates and the lease agreements, the phrase that comes up, it actually just came back from one from Florida, 1983, 1980s, in the mid-1980s, the phrase fair market value comes up. And it's been reiterated by the FAA over the years. And fair market value, understanding that the fair market value in this appraisal is a is basically a, it's a capitalization percentage of the value of the land. And the FAA understands that. It's not, you know, it's obviously, we're not using every square inch of the land for, you know, just the same on the west side of the airport. Not every square inch is used for revenue. So there's gonna be some understanding when we submit a proposal to the FAA for consideration. But fair market value is, is going to need a piece of it. It's gonna need a fair, not to quote any of that, but a piece, whatever piece that is. And we're going to need to do, like the city manager said, a quantitative analysis of what has happened in the past and move on from there and submit it, throw socks at the wall and see what sticks. If I could, what I wanted to touch on was a release of obligation. Kind of switching from the short term to the long term, if that's okay. A release of obligation is not your airport manager breaking out his cradle and drawing, there's 12 steps to it, I'm not gonna draw 12 steps on a piece of paper and submit it to the FAA. This is something that could very well be precedent setting. If we're told no on time, we may never have another chance at getting this. submit this, it needs to be done right. I would advocate to you that this is probably a consultant that does this, probably a legal consultant that submits this. If you take a look at the airport, and I'm just going to bring up a couple of issues that I know about, and again, a consultant would know more issues that would come up. First off, the biggest one that comes to mind is the financial We have what's called a non-standard obstacle-free area on the north-south runway. It's larger on the west side than it is on the east side because there's a fence that separates the golf course from the airport. In our layout plan, we've told the FAA that that fence will move and we will have a standard FAA when the golf course returns to aeronautical service. We've said that for at least 10 years. That's not to say that we can't change our mind. We can do that. But somebody needs to come in and say, does that fence stay? Do we put frangible fittings on the fence? Or does the fence actually need to move and the property value need to move 175 feet onto the golf course? You're going to lose two or three holes if that happens. There needs to be a review of the of the aeronautically, of the navigation easements, of the easements, of the deeds themselves. And language needs to be added, removed, or edited on those deeds to meet the FAA requirements. So that's two issues. Another issue is you have at the end of the crosswind runway, out to the east, you have a, it's called an RPZ, a runway protection zone. The FAA is a very staunch advocate of the airport owning those RPZs. That land will likely not be for sale. So as far as selling the golf course as a whole, I don't know that that's even in the cards. But I think you, that's just your airport manager saying this from what I've read. I think you need to be advised by a consultant and have somebody who's done this before tell you the steps ahead. You need to know how long this is going to take, what the process is of actually doing it, how much it's going to cost you, and what's the likelihood of it actually succeeding. And I don't know that I'm in a position

cost and a timeframe when you're talking consultants that have the legal and aeronautical background to do the kind of things that you're talking about and how long of a, I mean, are we talking a hundred grand in six months? Are we talking a quarter of a million in 12 months?

Well, it's the information that they're going to need to submit through this process is going, a lot of it is going to be gained through the master planning process. So it's a You can have the consultant gather that information for you in parallel with your master planning process to speed it up. That's your prerogative. I would say you probably wouldn't want to do that. That's not my decision to make.

So a couple of clarifications. So you said that they were saying that addressing the release of obligation in the master plan was one of the ways to approach it. Did I understand that correctly? That's correct. And so if that is what we wanted to do, then within the master plan, why would it not be good to have a consultant at that time to help you speak into what needs to be to represent what we're wanting to do.

There will be a process that does address this. That counts to some degree, but the actual release is going to be something that is fairly complicated, and these issues will need to be addressed. They can be addressed peripherally at the master plan, but there's not, I don't know that there's going to be a big diamond in there.

Okay. So the bottom line is, say, for next year, Whatever, whether we do RFP, the city runs it. So at what point do we tell FAA, we want to turn off this next year, what is it going to cost us? What is that fair market value, how is that going to affect us operating next year?

We have a consultant on board, which is what you'd call a heavy hitter in the airline engineering industry. And they have performed releases of obligation. And I'm hoping that they can take a look at this and at least give us a general overview of what we're looking at.

Yeah, I'm looking at the short view here. For us to do golf next year, while we're looking at the master plan and we're looking at release of obligation to run it next year, Is the fair market value price, is that going to be prohibitive? Or how is that, at what point do we find out if that is going to be prohibitive from either way?

I need a direction from the council first. If the ghost city operated, then would we take into account the city's route than the FAA on the reduced lease rate at that point, it's really I just need to know which path I'm going on for to submit a plan to the FAA about the reduced lease rate. And if we actually want to do like a not-for-profit model, if that's the route that we choose as well for a reduced lease rate.

So earlier I thought, and I may have misheard you, I thought you said that whether we do an RFP or do it ourselves, it's not going to change what they want on the fair market value. Did I mishear?

Under either option, the FAA expects a fair market value dependent upon the revenues of who is operating. Okay, so that's going to be a determinant factor. Okay.

Last question, I think this is my second time. looking at the two options between the city managing it for at least another year or an RFP coming up, what is city staff's or your drop-dead date for us making that decision where we say we want you to go out to RFP knowing how long the RFP process is along with the staff time it's going to require in the middle of budget season. Do you know Do you have a comfortable date where you would want an absolute, like, yes, we're going out to RFP, or we are not? Or is that, like, tonight is our drop-out date for that kind of thing?

Last council meeting would have been great. But this is not something we want to throw together at the last minute. So the city attorney and I would have to work together for an RFP, make sure it's FAA compliant, work with our FAA representatives, get it published, have an appropriate time frame that it's open, then there's a protest period, and then we continue. The city staff is prepared to move forward. But I would like to know sooner rather than later, so that we can actually plan during the winter months for the spring season, or, you know, as soon as possible, please, tonight.

Mr. Holmes.

First, a comment on the request for release of obligation. It is my understanding that, and it sounds like you kind of said the same thing, is that we have, like, one shot at that. And so, and I definitely lean towards making sure, yeah, we have all our I's done and T's crossed. I know there's a lot of pressure of like, make this happen quickly, but I think it's so important that if it takes a little more time to get all those components in place that we need to have in place, I think it's worth doing that. A question was regarding, our city manager mentioned the waiver. where you get approval for non-error canonical use for a specified period of time, is that something that we could pursue either in the interim while we're getting things ready for the request for release of obligations, or even like parallel tracks, like in case they don't approve the request for release of obligations, we can do the waiver. And if so, if so, I mean, if the waiver, I'm going to say like for the next 50 years, a specified period of time, is there any kind of idea of how far out the FAA might consider issuing a waiver like that? I don't know who that best would address that to, but.

So it would resemble like a lease that could be anywhere from three to 10 years. She said 10 years was the top rate, but there is no FAA guidance on the duration of a lease. It's not written anywhere. It's just kind of standard practice. Sometimes you'll see up to 10 years for a lease. But if that's more of a short-term solution, that would take about 90 days for us from start to finish to obtain that waiver if we wanted to go that route.

And it would be, you know, we say a 10-year lease. There's also, there's going to be escalation clauses in there in the afternoon. We get our ducks in a row, we show that we're compliant, and then once we can demonstrate that we're compliant, then we're free to pursue the release of obligation. If we pursue a release and we're not compliant on the rise, I can't see anything but an automatic no.

So compliance is what exactly? Is it the fences? It's the rate we pay?

What compliance is, is submitting, is showing basically the lease, showing all of our cards to the FAA, showing our lease structure, and submitting it to them for approval and having them approve it.

So question from the city manager. So if we're pursuing that and we want to show, we have a better chance of, so to show how the revenue and the expenses, keeping it under the municipality, then we know we've got all, everything that we need to show them. I know when it's under an RFP, you don't necessarily get all the numbers of all the revenue that is being made. Is that making sense?

We may need to show that.

That may need to be...

I would expect for the golf course to fall under an FAA's sanctioned audit from here on out. Just because...

If we want to release an obligation, that's going to be... We have to be able to show that, right?

Well, it's... Any revenue that the city generates on airport land is considered to be airport revenue. But that's in the compliance manual.

And my understanding is they don't look at the expenses. They just look at the gross number you put them on.

The gross revenue is what they make any type of produce.

Any other questions? Anybody would like to listen here from the golf course superintendent on how the golf course is done? Please. Good evening, council members.

Law representative, mayor, city manager, city clerk. Let's see. I think it was really close to almost five months ago when I sat here and introduced myself as the new golf manager for Palmer. So a lot has happened in that timeframe. It doesn't feel like five months, but sometimes it feels like five years. I've got lots of points. I'm going to try to condense it because I've got a superintendent that I hired by the name of Mark Troutman, and it's way past his bedtime right now. Um, he told me that, uh, when I, uh, when I asked him to come on board, he's like, dude, I'm like almost 80 years old. And I'm like, that's okay. You're like a really young 80. So, um, first of all, I want to start out and thanking the city, the city employees, Um, you know, Alish and Brian and Penny did a remarkable job of, of restoring the, the, uh, remodeling the clubhouse and put a lot of effort into that. And I, I appreciated it. Um, thanks to Greg. He left. I'm going to like, he owes me, you know, um, from city works. He came over multiple times to help us with irrigation systems that were, um, they were repaired and, um, it was, it was a total city, um, buy-in for the golf course. And I greatly appreciate it. The finance department, Gina, Sharon, Shannon, Kim. and I'm probably not been the best to work with at times. So let's thank them. Thank Nate and Erica, Colby, appreciate all the support that I've gotten from them in this process. I hired, I started in April, had zero employees. I ended up hiring 41 employees for the city. I'll say four or five had golf course experience knowledge. And so that was a different feat. And I feel like we did a great job. I had great compliments from the customer base speaking in regards to the friendliness and the employee base that they enjoyed. Coming out there, being around them, et cetera. The hiring of the superintendent. So I talked about hiring Mark Trotman. When we started this process, we thought we hit a home run. We thought we had a golf manager and a superintendent. The superintendent part of it didn't work out. And in hindsight, it was probably the best thing that could have happened to the golf course. Because in that process, I was able to hire Mark Trotman, Mark D'Alessi, Jerry Polanski, Dirk, who had worked extensively on the irrigation system throughout the years, and Those four people had spent majority of the time being a superintendent of the golf course at one time or another. And so I ended up with very knowledgeable people of the golf someplace in Georgia. And so it was a blessing that worked out. We're going to kind of keep, like I said, I'll keep it short. I do have a couple of employees here. I have Mark Troutman here as the superintendent. I have Steve Thomas as a mechanic here that I kind of wanted them to be able to give you guys some information and where we were, what we did, moving forward, pictures. And so I'll ask Steve to come up and give his information, and then I'll have Mark step in.

Good evening, everybody. Thank you for having me here. It's nice to actually be back in one of these meetings. I haven't been in one in a little while. So as John said, I am a mechanic over at the golf course there. I'm working on about 27 years of mechanical experience, working on everything from boats, cars, trucks to airplanes and heavy equipment. So pretty much been around the block a little bit. Now, I'm not here to insult anybody. I'm not here to accuse anybody of anything or insinuate anything. Just showing where it was when we came into things and what we've been working with this summer and why we've been spending money on parts. So, got some pictures for y'all tonight. I'll leave them out for everybody to see. This is one of the pictures of the yard we came into. We spent a significant amount of man hours cleaning this yard. We all have our ideas of what a clean work area is. That's fine. That's for everybody to decide. It's not a clean work area for me. So we're working on that. And I know the city has a significant amount of money invested in golf carts. They're not cheap. Even when you get them in bulk at an auction, they're not cheap. Needless to say, they're not supposed to look like that. We all know how bad the silt is here in Palmer. It gets into everything. It's not good for engines. It's not good for electronics. This was after scraping a foot of mud out of them. They sat against the fence where the Vanderbilt potato farm was. high winds we have. This is where a large portion of the golf carts were stored. I couldn't get them out of the snow berm until, shoot, had to be the middle of June before they were unfrozen enough to be able to pull them out without ripping the undercarriage apart because it was encased in ice. That was a huge feat in itself, just getting the yard so you could move around in there. That brings us to the I found our Toro 4500 Groundsmaster. This is a rotary mower. I know we've bought a lot of the stuff used, but the original sticker price on this would have been about $65,000 to $70,000. It's $100,000 to replace this machine with a new one. So it sat in a puddle of its own fluids all winter on the concrete slab in the hardware. This is one of the fairway mowers. This is how I found it after it had been put away for the winter. It was not cleaned. It was not very well taken care of. Now, the equipment that's purchased for the golf course is purchased with taxpayer money. It's everybody, including every one of us that's paid taxes here in Ballmer, has paid for that equipment. So for it to not be cared for in any way is kind of disrespectful to the people that paid for it. It's an investment by the city. And speaking of investments, this is the new greens mower that was purchased before the city took over. This machine was still in fairly good shape. I've done a lot to it. But this is where I sat all winter, filled with mud, grass, the leavings of last summer. And then multiple bearings on multiple machines have been run well past their service life to the point where they were damaged beyond repair. Hence the reason I've had to buy a lot of expensive parts for these machines, essentially renovating it's not up to me to judge how things were done before they won't be done in certain ways in the future i despise government wasteful spending so when i go to napa or i go to o'reilly's i find the cheapest thing i can for this because i know i'm spending city taxpayer money so i can assure the city council that any new equipment that will be purchased I'm taking care of it. But that's what we walked into in the fall or in the spring. And I've been neck deep in that equipment, just keeping it kicked along all summer just so that we can mow the fairways and the greens. Meanwhile, basically work an hour on this, work an hour on golf carts, work an hour on this, back to golf carts to try and keep both ends of the course happy by myself. So it's quite a circus. I even bought $3,000 of my own tools so that I could do it right. As a mechanic, tradesman, the city doesn't need to buy me tools, but I believe in doing things right. So that's where we're at with that. Going forward, we just got a new greens mower. It was delivered last week. 99% shape. We're getting her sorted out, but it cuts really beautifully. Those heads on that thing are brand new. But, yeah. That's where we're at with that, and if anybody ever wants to come down and have a look at the facility, I'm there from 6 to 2, Monday through Friday, and I'd be happy to give you a show around. You all have a lovely evening. I'm going to put these over here in case anybody would like to have a look. They're open to the public. I'm not hiding nothing.

until I went down there and basically saw the condition of the horse. And I wasn't going to work for free, and I'd been putting in lots of hours. We've been training a young man to be the superintendent next year, I hope. He's already a senior boy, a good man. We've taught him irrigation, and he can run every piece of equipment we've got. I'll give you some of my background. I came to Palmer in 1982. I was a state trooper. I retired in 86. I came from Glen Allen to Palmer, and Palmer was still a sleepy little town. By 91, I really wanted to get into the golf course business, so I called the city manager at the time. He put me in touch with Mark Gillespie, and I ended And then I got into irrigation, and then the city asked me to put fairway irrigation in. I put all fairway irrigation in on a budget of $75,000, which half of that went to the engineer and doing new well and putting in a pump. So in 95, I was made the superintendent. trying to kill and keep alive at the same time because you mowed things so close on the greens. It's a trick to the trade, but it can't be done. It just takes water and fertilizer and good equipment. So all I hear here is money, money, money. How much money does a softball field, a baseball field, a soccer field, ice rink, tennis courts, how much does that make? It does make a lot of money. It's a recreational opportunity. And that's what the golf course is. It's a recreational opportunity that does make money. Having worked for a contractor and working for the city, I can tell you that a contractor is going to cut costs every place he can because he's in business to make money. That was acceptable, but 45 is not. It's five years old. It has a bent axle. The way we got it, we just mowed it for the first time today with unbarred. And then the right axle has got a bend in it, and it doesn't go across the green smoothly. So we paid $47,000 for this for $60,000 or less. If every 10 years you bought a new greens mower, a new fairway mower, rough mower, it pays off to have a warranty on things. And I remember when I first came on here, we had brand new John Deere fairway unit that John Deere actually recalled the front drive unit on it. They sent a mechanic in the parts up in the lower 48 to repair that. You can't get that when you buy new equipment. You buy new equipment, it's got a guarantee on it, a warranty, the dealer should come and fix it. If you do go back to an RFP or if you go with an RFP, I think, I personally think you're making a mistake. The city has a real investment in that golf course. I mean, in building the golf course, putting irrigation in, buildings, I mean, we could use a shop. I mean, the shop we have, we can't even get our big equipment in. He's working outside fixing stuff. And if you do go with an RFP, I really suggest that you hire a city employee to oversee the golf course, the maintenance facilities, the grounds. Make sure everything is copacetic, because quite frankly, original shape, where they had been cut down That's the latest golf course in life. You go to Ireland or Scotland or someplace like that. That's just the way it is. You hit a bad shot and you pay the penalty. So I'd take any questions. And I appreciate your steel there, Matt, attorney. My wife's an attorney. And I hear that talk all the time.

Yes, ma'am.

I don't have a question, but I do have kind of a statement. So prior to this meeting, I had talked about Looking at RFP, I supported going out to an RFP again because, like you said, the money, when you look at the raw money, it is significant. However, after everything that I've heard tonight from the staff at the golf course, from the public who has talked about the improvement over the last few weeks to months at the golf course, getting it back up to, I guess, standard. I just want to state that I no longer support going after an RFP this year, and I would really like to see what a full cycle, see how the budget comes out, see what the revenues really look like for the city as far as a full cycle, and I'm speaking on half a century, of city management on the top floor. Thank you.

anything about I'm not into the money thing.

I guess I'm kind of along the same lines. I would like to see what we could do. I've been out, I've popped in a few times once during the week and the parking lot was full and me and my husband went and had a sandwich and sat on the deck and it was just a real nice atmosphere. The people that were working there were really nice and I got a couple other times just to just to kind of see, it's a beautiful, beautiful place. And, um, but, uh, I mean, I, I do support the golf course. The gentleman who asked, I have, I do, and I want us to, to succeed. And I, and I think that succeeding for this next year, I think we've done a good job, uh, getting things where it is right now. And, uh, And I would be supportive of the city running it.

Can I add one more thing? Yes, please. Any of you that have not been on the golf course, I really invite you to come down. We will give you a golf cart. You can drive the whole course and look at this.

I don't know if you're the best person to answer this question or not, but I don't know a lot about how tournaments, they decide where they're going to hold those and et cetera. And I know you say you're not even the money part of it, but I think the difference between a golf course and a baseball field is there's quite a bit more cost involved in making a golf course. tournaments might be necessary to do that. I didn't know if there was any kind of feel for if some of the tournaments that found other locations this year, if they've reached out, if there's talks yet about them returning to the Palmer Golf Course, or if you felt like that might be in the cards, or any information on that you might.

So yeah, I've got a few more times to come along. Maybe not this year. And who knows? I might drop dead tonight. God said he won't let me die. I've been a data farmer for the last 25 years.

Let's move ahead. So I won the same course as Councilman Graham and Carrington. I have really changed my mind tonight, just listening to the love and the care that you've taken in our golf course. I've been out a few times. I've had lunch sitting right there. Great lunch, by the way. Perfect opportunity to advertise, get some folks in there. have a good lunch and watch and play golf. The day that my husband and I were out, we were watching them play on the and then go into the golf itself. And people were happy. Yeah.

You really should drive around it. You really should just take the car and drive the car past and see the total golf course.

So you've changed my mind, all of you. And I am in support of the city. running it again next year and working with the financials to see where we're at. But I also would like that opportunity for the airport to continue with maybe the consultant and work together. I think that there's room for both. I agree.

The airport's an opportunity. It's one of those things. Absolutely.

It was fun watching the airplanes fly over as well.

We used to have supercubs, and that was about it. Now we've got corporate jets taking off out there.

I think Zeppelin was in there a couple weeks ago. But the reason I say that I believe that there's room for growth is because of the pilots that they put out there through the flight schools. I just benefited the doubt here. I am not going to cast anything, but I am really for the city running the Gulf Coast this year.

Mr. Allen.

I just want to say that, you know, when we started this process, or at least when I came here or here, the management before was doing a find out because I wasn't privy to any of the behind the scenes stuff about how the equipment was being maintained or the water lines or anything like that. I just mean just one guy's golf experience. I felt like the course was great and so I was one of the people that was like, hey, isn't there some way that we can And that unfortunately wasn't able to happen, but those negotiations broke down for whatever reason. But when they did, I was also very much like, okay, we'll kind of run it as a city, put a bandaid on it, and then we'll put out another RFP. And I just feel like, I think I'm repeating what I was wrong about that. I didn't think that you guys would be able to get that course to the level that it's at right now. And for a guy like Derrick Kohler to come here and say the things that he said today when he has been one of the biggest critics of the way folks um he's a guy he's a serious golfer i've known him for a long time but a lot of golf with him um and you know he is really really impressed um he's texted me a couple times he he feels very confident that um you're gonna get all the turns back um and then some um and so i just uh i'm really impressed i think you guys deserve a lot of credit and i am also in favor of and what you're doing for that. Thank you.

Deputy Mayor.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

And thank you, Mr. Troutman, for being here and for your years and decades of public service. I've known John Chirac for decades. I've actually known Mark Troutman for decades and his kids, Mike, Chris, and Aaron. So it's been... long time and don't take your I'm going to play the flip side of the coin I'm saying that you know absolutely support city running it no matter what I think we need to take a look and take a look you know we have to be stewards of the dollar I know I heard you talk about the dollars and how that was maintenance wasn't done right and things may not have been done properly but you know you got to wrestle with over $300,000 being returned to the city versus you When I look at, this is more for Mr. Tyrock, our city manager, but when I look at the numbers, they're not as simple as saying only 10% behind on this or only 15% behind on that. You've got to have the numbers of what the golf season looks like. And you know better than I do, sir, that the golf season peaks in July and then starts fading away due to daylight, due to weather, due to other things, and none of us know, sitting of November, 1st of October we don't know what's going to happen with snow and other things so I think before I think we can definitely all say great job and I was just out there a few days ago and really enjoyed putting a ball on the river on number 10 slashing one into the airport on number 11 and other things and so it is in good shape you guys have done phenomenal work I do like what you said about if is looked at having a golf course manager golf course superintendent person to oversee that maybe a worthwhile investment in itself just having a person that's separated out and make sure there isn't 45 problems with irrigation and make sure that equipment is being maintained and other things so I don't want to rush to judgment here tonight and say no hey we absolutely shouldn't stay with the city I know I'll probably be on the uh the losing end of a vote like that so the reality is I won't be mad if that happens I mean the reality is uh you know that'll be what this council decides and So no vote makes no difference in whether we move forward next year and hopefully have, as someone mentioned, a full year under the bells and people hired. And I hope you'll consider at least coming back to mentor for one more year. So thanks, and I don't know if Mr. Chirac is going to take the hot seat or if we're done, but I appreciate everything you've done to you and Mr. Gillespie and Steve, who I've never met, but all the people that have put blood, sweat, and tears and kind of, as somebody said, have been there resurrecting Palmer Gulf Bridge from where it was in May, in late May, which was not a good place. So thank you, Mark. Okay.

Yes, ma'am.

I just wanted to add one more. I know it's been mentioned that when the city tried to run the golf course before, it didn't go well. But since then, I mean, we've had, we built the ice rink and we've run that and everything that goes on in that building. I think as a city, I think we have the potential to do a great job with the golf course. And I think we have the potential to move it forward. And so...

There was no fairway irrigation. We only had cheese and greens that were irrigated, so ... And times have changed because we used to have some pretty hot, dry summers, so everything turned brown. And with irrigation and the fairways, you can keep everything green, and it really started attracting people to the vault, of course. You guys done with me?

Thank you, sir. So just a couple of follow-ups that I'd like to do. One of the follow-ups is to the equipment. That was a two-way street. Equipment was the cities. and making sure that they were repaired correctly okay so i wasn't all on the management group or whatever you know it was just as much on the city because they didn't do their part of I appreciate the support that I'm hearing from the council here. When I took this job, I didn't anticipate it being a one-year deal. There was going to be some time involved. It was a learning process for myself and for all of us. Not only that, but the dollar part of it, the revenue part of it, because of the I could not personally say, hey, I'm going to go pay $50 to play that. And that's kind of the way I operate. It's like if I'm a golfer, I'm a golfer, I'm going to a golf course, I'm not paying $50 for what was there. So I had to reduce those screen fees, which reduced the revenue aspect of it. I will tell you this, that since the middle of July and on, we have been very busy. I hear continuously, all right, kudos to my crew, to the people that work there, the turnaround that happened. And countless times, I'm even told that it is the best golf I'm not saying that. That's what people are saying to me. And so I would ask that we get a chance to actually have a true season to operate a golf course and not come in in the bottom of the ninth with two outs. I met with them in April, okay? And I spoke to them and said, listen, did you really have to take all of them? They're having a tournament next week in Anchorage that was supposed to be at our place. We could easily have hosted it this season, okay? They chose not to do that. And so I've not had dialogue with them. I've not seen them there. Okay, and so with that being said, Um, but hopefully yes, moving forward, we will get more tournaments. Um, my staffing, you know, that is my plan to be able to get staffing that is knowledgeable in that area so that we can generate more tournaments and those kinds of things. Um, to that point, I did want to interject that, you know, we, we did host, uh, the course championship and we had 75 players in that tournament. Who won? Who won? Eric Thompson was

I did not know that. I wasn't looking for it to say that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, John, for your heartfelt words. I hear what you're saying. And I've said it from... incredibly difficult in May and later, and I heard Steve loud and clear about not being able to get carts out until mid-June or later. So I hear what you're saying, and I've said it all along, you cannot compare 26 to 25. You have to compare 26 to some other year, and from listening to the tea leaves here, I think we'll be able to potentially compare 27 to 25 and see what happens. What did you have to lower the green fees to through, was that through mid-June or through mid-July? It was like mid-June. Mid-June. And what were they?

So there was like 41. So our, you know, our rack rate is 50. Okay. Yeah. And so it was 41. So, you know, that's $9 a green fee, you know.

Mr. Mayor, speaking of your rack rate, so to go out and golf and get a cart is $74 a person, am I correct? Is it $50 and then $24 per person in the cart? It is correct. Okay.

And so those, and so that everybody understands too, is that those rates, those rates are what was started from the previous, that I just carried on. Correct. Thank you for pointing that out.

Thank you.

So the green fees going up $4 and the golf cart fee going up $2 happened here collectively before you got a piece of it. So everybody knows what we're talking about. But, no, I'd say I know it probably wasn't possible here on September 8th to give us made it through but we i'll be wanting to take a good look and see and of course you know i'll be sort of summon spain and pray for rain i'll be doing the uh praying for sunshine until you know november so we can uh hopefully get as many rounds as you know the time clocks allow and sunlight allows and hopefully good weather allows for the rest of this year and then we'll take another good look at it, you know, once the golf course closes down and whatever that is laid out. So thank you for coming in and bringing your experience in Suffolk's Bay and coming in and kind of, you know, wanting to take this task on because I know, like you said, five months feels like five years. I feel the same way up here. So thank you very much. You're welcome.

Thank you. Anything else?

Yes, ma'am. So just to... So I know when we did a meeting a while back, and we all had our things that we were priorities, and I know one of the priorities that Amanda had brought up was a timeline for the process, the release of obligation. And not a timeline that's like, okay, we want this to happen here, here, here. A timeline is like, What do we need to do? And I don't want to lose sight. I want to see next year be great, but I don't want to lose sight. It is a long process, and it seems like there's a lot of moving parts. And we don't want to lose momentum on that. We want to stay on track. A timeline that shows us... what are the things that need to happen, and whether it's getting the consultantist first, or whatever it is, that information would be great at some point, not too far in the future. What does that look like? Doing that, what does that look like?

No, that's okay. Ms. Carrington, I guess your question is, is you're looking for a timeline for release of obligation.

Yeah. Not as far as time, but what has to happen. Time frame. Yeah, time frame or just the process. Maybe just an outline of the process of what needs to happen.

I don't think I can answer that question for you. I can get back to you. I think that's best asked of a consultant. Like Meaden Hunt, for example, who has gone through this before to outline the steps for what needs to happen. I will find out and get back to you.

Yeah, that would be, I think that would help all of us as we say that we've won it. Okay, well, then we're in trouble.

to square b and how many squares are between a and b and d and and the release absolutely okay i think that's something that's going to be that we would better outline as part of the master planning process with people who who are experienced in that perfect yes ma'am so i think what we're asking for is just a project management timeline

You know, what are these key things that need to be done by certain dates? I think that would help me and probably everyone else to just have something visual to look at so that we can understand where we're at.

Absolutely. I think what you're basically asking for is a story.

We are under contract with them. I have a scheduled meeting for the beginning of October Yeah, they're still we're pulling subcontractor sub consultants Under the way and starting to put together a timeline.

I don't have a

and to prepare them because they're going to be here presenting to you as part of the master plan that could be something a question i can ask them and have them prepared to answer that question i don't want to speak for either council members but i think that when they come to give that presentation to us one of the big questions is going to be how is a release of obligation going to be listed out or when Um, along with that scope, I, like I said, I don't wanna speak for either council members, but, um, I, I believe that is definitely gonna be something that I wanna see. Um, I've been pushing for the release of obligation for forever at this point. Um, recognizing that the master plan is kind of the, the keystone for that overarching goal with the city, um, to get a full picture of whether release of obligation is A feasible option to keep the golf course open and operating and to support the city. That's what we want. But again, keeping the golf course open and operating its current footprint, I guess is the best way to put it, is going to be the goal. So hearing from them when they come to that meeting, I would like to see that.

Absolutely. I'll pass that along for sure.

Any other questions or concerns about the issues surrounding our Committee of the Whole? OK. Hearing none, I'd like to have a motion to come out.

Move to exit Committee of the Whole.

Second.

This is the vote to approve coming out of Committee of the Whole. Council Member Allen?

Yes.

Council Member Carrington? Yes. Council Member Collins? Yes. Council Member Graham? Yes. Council Member Moser? Yes. Deputy Mayor Alcantara? Yes. Mayor Cooper? Yes. We're unanimous, approved, and we're out of Committee of the Whole at 9.15.

Thank you. Pursuant to the discussion in Committee of the Whole, is there any recommendations or actions to be seen in that regard?

Mr. Mayor? Yes, please. I would like to move to give direction to our city manager to continue with current operations with the city management workforce.

Seconded. Any questions, comments, concerns? Madam Clerk.

I apologize. Deputy Mayor Alcantara?

We have a little more meat on the bone here. Why are we voting on continuing city operations indefinitely? Are we going to ask for some more information to come back to us? I guess I'm a little confused. After a one-hour discussion, are we going to vote now to have city operations through 2027?

Yeah, I think if this was finished next year, so we can gather more information, you know, and then we can present it mid-term next year and then make a decision whether we want to at that point go to an RFP or continue on with city management.

Mr. Mayor, I just think we need more information before making this motion.

I just thought it would be a no-go. Maybe that's the comment that Ms. Moser had, is maybe just to have the direct city manager provide us more information and at the same time continue going forth with the golf course at this point. But part of that is with more information. Okay.

So we'll get more information for the advisory committee and other issues before we make a decision that we're going to keep the city run golf course into the end of 27.

I would like to make a motion to amend the previous motion. I would like to move that we amend it to state that we direct the city manager to continue golf course operations under city management until mid-turn of calendar year 2027 so that we can have a full picture of a full season under city management.

This is the vote to approve the amendment you have to do that first so everybody know Deputy mayor Alcantara no council member Allen Yes, council member Carrington. Yes council member Collins. Yes council member Graham Yes, council member Moser Yes. Mayor Cooper?

Yes.

It is approved. Not unanimous, but it is approved. Now this will be a vote on the main motion as amended. Deputy Mayor Alcantara?

No.

Council Member Allen?

Yes.

Council Member Carrington? Yes. Council Member Collins? Yes. Council Member Graham? Yes. Council Member Moser? Yes. Mayor Cooper?

Yes.

Thank you.

Moving out of the community hall, we are now in council comments. Ms. Graham, would you like to go first, please?

I'll speak in my mic this time so that Mr. Maleski is available. I just want to state that the reason that I put that amendment forth is because we heard from our city manager that we need to make a decision about whether we go forward into the next golfing season either with RFP or under city management ASAP. I don't know that pushing that off any further to get more information for determining if an RFP is gonna come out is gonna give them enough time to put something out, but I don't wanna be in the same position we were in at the end of last year where we're trying to figure out if an RFP is gonna work out, so I just wanna state that's why. I don't have much else to say other than to Go back to the thing that I talked about at the beginning. I would like to request council support to direct the community development director to explore replatting the library, parking lot, and quad in order to protect the quad from any parking lot encroachment and I guess continue to solidify the delineation between the library and the library parking lot and specifically to explore what the options are for that, not to actually go forward and recline it just to approve.

Mr. Mayor, I just support Councilman Frank. Thank you.

We will direct the community development director to look into that, how we've got to do it, and when.

I see. Other than that, I just want to say thank you to everybody who came out. I know it was a long, hot meeting. and I think that this was very enlightening. I hope that, like the most thing that I hope that this was educational for everybody involved, not just the public, the council. The goal ultimately is to continue having the golf course, having something that the community can appreciate and enjoy forever. I don't disagree that the airport is I don't see any reason why the airport would expand into the golf course's land at any time in the future. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My hope is that we can continue running, continue the improvements. I'm really glad to hear such positive things from the community about the current golf course. state that it's in. I've said before, I'm not an out-worker, I don't do outside things, but I do a lot of research, I do look at stuff, I do go around, so I may not be a golfer, but I do see what the community has said. And it's... It's completely obvious that the community is wildly passionate about this, both within the city limits, residents within city limits, and the greater Palmer area. And I'm so thankful that we were able to get the golf course committee running. I hope to hear fantastic things about the meeting so that we can start getting some of these questions directly addressed by golfers, for golfers, at the golf course. And I just want to wish everybody a nice night. I hope everybody had a good day today. Thank you.

I just would like to do one thing, because I like code. On Councilmember Graham and Councilmember Moser's direction to explore repotting the library parking lot and quad to protect the quad, are there any objections from any other Councilmembers? OK, thank you.

Ms. Carrington.

I appreciate you guys and your passion for the golf course. And hopefully there was some good things said tonight. I do support the golf course. I do wanna see it long term. The lease of obligation is a process and I'm hoping you guys will, the community will allow that process to work out. We're not going to let it go. I know that because you're not going to let us let it go. But we're going to keep looking at it. We're going to keep figuring out what those steps are. And we intend to take those steps to see. But like he said, we want to do it right. We want to do it well because we want them to say yes. And so thanks for coming out. Congratulations to all the firemen. And good job. And that's it.

This motion.

I, too, want to thank everyone for coming out and keeping the health in mind this evening while we've talked through this. I do believe, in my heart of hearts, that there is room for both the airport and the golf course. I also want to say thank you to the manager for the proclamation on 9-11. It's a very important date for our country. And I also want to, I see Chairman over there, so Thanks for a great fair this year. I've heard nothing but good things from everybody, and Twiggy was a hit. But anyway, I just want to thank you guys for coming out and listening and being fair and giving benefit of the doubt for all of this. Thank you.

Ms. Holmes.

Thank you. I echo many of the sentiments already expressed through the course of this meeting, so I won't go back to all that. But I did want to thank the golf course team that's here, because I have heard a lot of great things. It sounds like you guys have put in a tremendous amount of work and really care about the golf course. And for me, as well as it sounds like some other council members, that made a difference as far as how we voted today, seeing your passion and dedication to the golf course. So I'd just like to thank you for that work because I know it was a heck of a way to jump into things this year with the way things happened, but appreciate your work there. One event this week, I just wanted to mention, there is the Princeton Palmer Public Library, Conventional Library, putting on a, I think they're calling it Celebrate USA, but on September 11th at the Depot. They're doing a commemoration of September 11th, and they're doing some fundraising for the library there as well. So if anyone's interested in attending that, it would be the Massu Concerts. And Colored Garden is one of the things there. So if you're looking to honor those and remember that time in our history, that would be a great event to attend. Thank you.

Mayor, I'm going to come to you.

public testimony dealing with the heat of the council chambers i do want to say especially to john steve and mark troutman that my no vote has nothing to do with how well you guys are running the golf course it seemed to be that we just appointed an advisory committee um seemed awfully rushed for us to be making big decisions before the advising committee even had a chance to meet but this is it was done in front of you, not in the public eye. And so when six council members out of seven decide, or even four out of seven, decide this is what's going to happen, that's what's going to happen. So there's not a lot that can be said about that other than, you know, my opinion was give it a little bit of time to let this newly appointed committee and other people, and to get more information. We have budget information through July 31st. Nothing against Council Member Graham's motion. I think she put a lot of thought and effort into it. So I just wanted to let these guys especially know that I think it's going to be great under your stewardship. But we also are stewards of the public dollar, and we have to balance that. We have to look at dollars and cents. We can't just, hey, we're going to do this no matter what it costs, unless for people. The people up here certainly do, and that's a great thing. And it ties into Friday and the 9-11 25th anniversary. I hope everybody takes a moment to thank a trooper or a firefighter or a police officer and other public servants for everything that they do. Because 25 years ago, a tremendous number lost their lives in just a matter of a couple of hours. So take that with all, um, somerness and, um, hopefully not at, uh, not at four, uh, 30 in the morning, but at some point during the day, uh, reflect on all those lives that were lost. I'd want to say congrats to Palmer High. I thought that was pointed out. Palmer High football has been really impressive, uh, this year. And, and as a guy who knows the people they lost last year to, to division two football and to NAIA football, Palmer had a good year last year. having an even better year this year i mean palmer's week colony already much bigger school palmer's week chuby apple palmer's 4-0 palmer jb's 4-0 i don't even see teams or not i mean it's just they it's a uh another resurgence of uh and they're really getting back to the days of uh palmer moose uh trampling the competition pun intended so uh i look for and they gotta they gotta rub You'll put up your best fight against your team in Fairbanks. I don't want to let cats out of the bag here, but I do want to say, because it's my last chance to say it, that the guy to my right here, Council Member Allen, has an opportunity to do something during the next council meeting. So this is his last one. And I really appreciate having him here for a short amount of time. I was unpleasantly shocked when I saw that he wasn't running. this voice of reason and just his demeanor will be sorely missed. And so, Rick, I wish you the best of luck and enjoy your trip. And I'm sure we've had this in the last year overall. So thanks for everything you do. And just my last comment is... Michelle about nobody speaking up when that happened and the chilling effect that has on public testimony. I do think that we need to look as a council at maybe doing what the legislature does and actually being able to ask And we only dedicate one hour of time to audience participation now. But the reality is so many times we've had people come here, Mr. Roberson, every time. Anybody have any questions on me? We just sit here like statues because that's not how the system operates right now. We need to change how our system operates if we want to interact with the public. And so many times, by the whole thing, my chief, because we can't. interact with the public we can't ask any questions about march road and public safety and and we can't ask we can't ask questions of the testifiers they do it in juneau with 11 member committees seven member committees nine member committees it seems likely we could do it here so i apologize to this gentleman over here and others that it's just not the way we operate we never get to ask questions of the testifiers maybe we need to look at changing that that's a topic for another day and appreciate all the time thank you

being a good communicator and returning emails and phone calls and all that stuff. So I'm very sorry that I missed your email.

Well, we're on apologies. First of all, thank you guys all for saying you support the talk. And the rude comments earlier, I didn't bring that guy with me.

Anyway, there's no question that I am a huge fan I can't remember a time, of course I was, again, I was just a golfer, I wasn't tuned into the behind the scenes stuff, but I can never remember this tension between the airport and the golf course, and this never being a problem until recently. It's very unfortunate, but if we're in a position where we've got two sides, I'm definitely a team golf course, and I would say the vast majority of the people in this community are. I want to, again, as I did earlier, acknowledge the city employees and the miss you at my dispute but i'm glad to have you uh doing what you're doing for the city and appreciate your willingness to step up so thanks thank you thank you you didn't follow up on this is your last one oh sorry about that yeah yeah so this is this is my last meeting and i i did want to say i'm sorry that uh it has actually it is absolutely a real pleasure it's been It has been a real pleasure to work with all of you folks. I've learned a lot from you and it hasn't always been easy, the stuff we've been working through. This is essentially a volunteer gig and you guys are spending tons of time on this and it's because you love this community like I do and you want to see what's best for it. Um, this experience has given me a whole new level of appreciation for, um, for the folks that are serving in this capacity. So thank you so much.

I want to follow up on deputy mayor's comment that, that, you know, you, you will be missed. It is, uh. I think we were all shocked that you didn't sign up again, but as he said, you're here in the community, we know where you live, and you will be around. So I appreciate all that you've done for us in this year. I want to also congratulate the new fire department. chief and new deputies they're going to do a great job for us i'm looking forward to the golf course to me getting together and meeting uh hopefully as soon as we can get them going um i think that that's obviously going to be a big thing Potato Bowl, October 2nd, against Wasilla. And looking forward to them hoisting the trophy again this year. So that'll be a good game. Again, AML, I know I'll be bringing this up again, that District 4 seat is available for anybody who decides that they want to sit on the board of AML. September 11th, again, I hope that everybody prays for all those who are directly or indirectly affected by that attack. It is a time of reflection. Hopefully everybody does remember. I remember getting a call from my sister-in-law to turn on the television and watching the plane enter the Twin Towers. Sobering moment. Please don't forget. Forget all that.