Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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Okay. All right. We're going to call our planning commission meeting to order at 5:33 p.m. on October 15, 2025 in the ORM city council chambers. And we will begin with an invocation by Jerry Our father in heaven, we're grateful this day for the opportunity to meet together and consider the issues that face our city here. We pray for guidance and inspiration that we might do that which is in the best interest of the citizens of this city. We pray and are grateful for this city in which we live, the opportunities that it affords us. and we are grateful for all that thou has given us and we say this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you Jerry. Okay, we will begin with our consent agenda which is item 3.1 Centennial Acres Plat C Plat amendment located generally at 1670 North 680 West and 3.2 2 approval of minutes from October 1st, 2025 planning commission meeting. Is there anyone anything we want to remove or are we going to move to motion?

Okay, then can I have a motion on the move that ORM city planning commission approve items 3.1 and 3.2 the consent agenda? Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Rod moved in and ha seconded that we approve our consent agenda. Mike, I I I I Okay, the consent agenda is approved. We will move on to You're welcome. You're welcome. Move on to item 4.1, which is Rocket Gem D, Final Plat Condominium Conversion, located generally at 341 West, 310 North. And we'll begin with Okay. staff report.

All right. Um, thank you. So, this is just on this just for this first page for public interest. This is the uh current structure at the subject property address 241 West 310 North and the conversion. This project is a town home conversion of this existing duplex. So, I'll go through relatively quickly and you guys stop me if you have any questions about what I'm talking about, please. Okay. I just want to make sure you understand how we're doing it and why it works. I'm going to stop you. There is some fan on. Can we get the mics a little bit higher? We can barely hear. Yeah. At least I can barely hear. I don't know. Maybe I'm getting old. closer to speaking louder. Yeah, sorry. You're good. We can get the fans turned off here. Just one second. We've got

We're We're cooling the super collider back there, Meline. And I don't I can't be responsible for what happens for what happens. There's no We have a high-tech PVC pipe of room handler. So, Oh. Oh, maybe we just need to turn the mic. Everybody talk loud for a minute while we while we hi-tech figure this out. Maybe maybe just get closer to the mic. Yeah. Eat it. Is that better? Can you hear better now? Yeah. Yes. All right.

Well, I'm thrown off my game, so I'll have to just call it a night. Uh, so this is a this is again a town home conversion under a couple of sections of our code, so we'll go through those relatively quickly. Again, the area, this is 241 West and 310 North. Uh, this is again a duplex. There are a series of duplexes on this street, uh, remnants from a time when those were allowed there. This is now zoned R 75. Uh, there's some commercial zoning to the east here. But this area is largely R7.5. Uh, these duplexes are all legal but non-conforming in that stand. They have that status. the uh there are two parts to this to this request, a site plan and a plat. And that is because the the deries, the applicants that own this um and are applying for Rocket Gem's uh new plat here, would like to convert the existing structure and that is a it's a subdivision, but it's under a special part of our code. So, it it's a subdivision that requires a site plan as well. So this is the plaque that they've prepared uh that you would give preliminary approval to tonight if you agree with this uh project and then uh we would record that down at county. It is a town homes unlike other condominium projects can be recorded fee title. So they would create a split lot here and the existing duplex that straddles that would straddle that new property line run through the middle wall. So in that way it's a town home two attached units. Part of that project is also uh to convert that and add a second floor to the duplex. They're using the existing outline of the of the building. They're adding a second floor. Um non-conforming residential uses that are in a residential zone can be expanded. So, it's it's all right for them to do that. That has it doesn't require the subdivision. They could add on to the top of the duplex because it's a non-conforming residential structure in a residential zone. And they've actually applied for the permit for that. And it's Haley, have we issued that? Yeah.

So, they have the permit for that. This is a request to building on that um expansion that they're they're undertaking right now to turn it into not just a nicer duplex, but instead a twin home that could be owned or two town homes in this instance that could be owned separately uh individually. So, uh, just to go through some of the things here real quickly, one of the requirements is that for the expansion of non-conforming use like this is that it has to meet current standards, um, for building um, permits and things like that for for construction and it has to keep meeting the setbacks and things like that that that are required. Um, and it does meet those. You can you can go through that table if you like, but it meets all of those. The one exception to that is lot size. Uh, and that's a specific function of the other section of code we're looking at here, which is 22169A. That's part of the conversion, the town home and condominium conversion portion of our ordinances that allows um for minimum lot sizes of underlying zones not to apply. That's so that they can do them as true town homes, fee, title. You can own the land and the unit as well. Um, that's their intention. That makes it more likely that they get owner occupied. So, the code seems to support that. Uh, any questions about this thus far? Couple other things have to do with parking. Right now, the duplexes have one parking space that is to the rear of the building like we require them. They're required to have two under the condominium conversion code. So, they've extended the driveways. There's not room to cover them because it would violate setbacks in that case. So, uh, we've we've they're not required to have covered parking. So, they'll have two tandem parking spaces, but, uh, nothing covered. Um, and then again, we talked about lot sizes. Building height, just to make sure you understand that, too. Uh, they're allowed 35 ft in height. Even with the second story, they're going to be well under that. It does add um living space and bedrooms. Makes the duplexes or the town homes, if they're

successful in this bid, uh, more desirable, um, more usable. Any questions? Okay. So, Oh, go ahead. I have a question. So, the, uh, the 2269A Uhhuh. allows you to reduce your minimum size for a town home conversion. You could you could do it's only for town homes. Um yeah, but so my my question is does that now that it's basically an R4 basically? Well, we don't have an R4 depending on what you mean though. Do you see what I'm saying? So like if one side wanted to knock down I mean what are the rules on some of that stuff and how does

Right. How does that change things? Because, you know, it's a it's an individual unit despite sharing a wall. Uhhuh. It's an individual unit that shares a wall. The the main rule of the condominium conversion and town conversion ordinance is 2916 or 29. It starts at 299, I think, or 229 rather. I might be getting that wrong, but the main point of that section of the code is that you cannot increase the number of units that are on the property as it is. So, if you had a a forplex and you wanted to condominiumize it, you might be able to do that, but you can't turn that forplex into a sixplex. Regardless of the area that you have. So, let's say you had enough land to do another unit. You still couldn't

because it has to be it's it's applicable only to existing structures that want to be converted, not to the construction of totally new things. If the Derys had bought this property and torn the duplex down, they couldn't do this. They couldn't rebuild this two town homes. So they'd be stuck with a 7.5. Exactly. And if they tore down after this, they would still be stuck with 7.5 because that's the what it's zoned as in the area. Yeah. They if this if this So yes and no. Because if it's subdivided as these two twin homes, they could rebuild that under the again under the non-conforming. Uh but if something that you have is is destroyed in part or in whole, you can rebuild it within a certain period of time. Right. So,

but they have to rebuild what what they had is I guess what I'm getting at. They could rebuild this because we're going to subdivide it. They're converting this lot into two town homes instead of one duplex. But they're splitting they're splitting the the lot into two different titles, right? I'm just trying to make sure that downstream, you know, it has a lot of juggling things and it would have a lot of implications downream. Yeah. And I like I like what they're doing. I just want just want to make sure the ramifications I like what they're doing. I just don't like splitting the line into two. Yeah. Well, and I'm okay with that as long as we're we're basically staying the same way we are today.

You're not increasing unit numbers. The value to it is the value proposition of this code of this section of code is that you don't increase unit counts, but you do increase the opportunities for home ownership as opposed to rental. I think we're increasing quality of life without increasing density and a lot of stuff

to to Mike's point. Um if about non-conformity right now it's a non-conforming duplex on our in a single family R75 zone. So if it were destroyed by a tornado tomorrow bad example in Utah but tomorrow tomorrow's tornado takes it down they they can rebuild it as a duplex uh because it's a legal but non-conforming use and structure. So, in that way, when we split this, you're really not changing anything. You're They could because they could always just rebuild a duplex if they lost that duplex if they didn't do anything with it. But they couldn't build two detached homes. No, not on these two. It's It's They have to basically stick with two town homes, right? Because it was built under the town home conversion act.

Okay. And the just for clarification again, the real difference between leaving this is is either two rentals or two houses that can be sold independently. Yeah. can can they can can I will they I that's up to the owner. Um I still love the idea, but it's a good idea. Yeah, we've done this. It's I want to think about the long-term impact that's on this. It's fantastic. The splitting like this we've done before. We had one that came before us. It was a long-term duplex. They we had to adjust the lot line because of where the wall went wonky. I remember that one.

And we did that. And so we've done it before. So it's not out of precedent for lack of a better term. But yeah, but yeah, whether or not they do, I don't know. Okay. But it gives that potential. Good questions. Thank you guys. And it's it's Does it have enough room to add any detach ADUs? We don't do those for um for It's a good question. Attached housing is not eligible for ADUs in in yet. So not yet. Um attached or detached? Detached. detached isn't and neither is when you have so the because this is multif family housing technically even though they're just single family homes stuck together they share a common wall so neither of them is eligible for an ADU interior either and I'm talking about detached right and detach

depends on what the state decides or we decide as a city because we have no space wise we're going forward towards that we are going I know but I do that's what that the long-term implication is a factor especially with but that will depend on how that statute's written right whether or not it applies size just like the AD the interior ADU ones just put a pen into it to not apply to the size lot the size split well then it likely it likely wouldn't I mean just my probably don't have enough yard space in in most place most cities that are running and allowing detached accessory dwelling units right now are are pegging them to certain lot sizes and up and it's usually 10,000 and up so it's not likely but it's not impossible it's a good point

uh any other questions before we move to the next section okay um this are just elevations that the deries have provided. Uh this is what's underway in the conversion that second floor. So you can see the similarities here just redressing the building. And that's our presentation. So if you have any questions, we're happy to take them. Um it's not a public hearing, but Haley is here if if you wanted to speak with her. Um any questions from the commission for staff? The the split is tied to the redevelopment as well, right? Uh yeah, it's the the redevelopment. They they wanted to do the let's see, make sure I characterize it correctly. They were going to do the remodel regardless, right?

But when they found they could split it and and have a chance to sell one of the sides, um they were interested in doing that. So, they made sure that their remodel uh kept making that possible, adding the parking that they would need, etc. So, okay. I was just curious. Yeah. Would the applicant like would you like to come forward to say anything? Are you good? Just here. Is there any questions for the applicant from the commission? Okay, then moving on. This is an administrative matter, so we are the final authority on this one. Just keep that in mind. So, do I have a motion? I mean, is there any further disc? I don't think we have any further discussion. Rod, do you do

I move that the Orum City Planning Commission approve the requested preliminary subdivision approval for Rocket TM Plat Dome conversion. That's a mouthful. Located generally at 241 West 310 North in the RN R5 zone. Approximately.195 acres. Okay. Second it. Uh, wait. No, in the R. It shouldn't have said that. Oh, no. It does R 7.5. So five. Yeah, R 7.5. Do I have a second? Jerry did.

Oh, I did. Thank you, Jerry. So Ron moved and Jerry seconded that we approve this item. Hase I I Jerry I I I

Okay, item 4.1 passes. We'll move on to item 4.2 and I apologize if I say this wrong. Aanian Motors site plan located generally at 662 East 1700 South. Thank you. So, you said it the way we say it. Whether that's right or not, I can't say, but you said it how we say it. So, uh this is again 662 East, 1700 South. You can see the lot there. Uh they currently do car sales at this lot. They wanted to make an improvement to the lot um to wanted to improve the surface uh surfacing of the lot and make make better use of the space. They are not updating the building. They're not making changes to the building itself. It'll stay in that location. Um but the it's just a so this is just a site plan application. Okay. Um it is in the C2 zone. Great. We talked earlier about car sales in the C2 zone. Uh the areas around it are R75 but adjacent to it are all uh C2 zones as well. Uh this lot is used in in business currently. Um so this is the property. Again you can see it's kind of turned on its side. This is the uh street there. Um, so this is north oddly, so bear with me. Uh, this is the site and landscaping combined plan. Um, just a few things to note. As I said, they're not changing the building at all. It's going to be used the same way. The site plan improvements they're proposing that they would like to see approved. Um, do make some significant improvements to the to the building's position on the site. For example, it gives us um ADA access that we haven't had to the building before. That makes the building department happy. Um, we do get ADA ADA compliant stalls as well. This area right here is hatched to be the van accessible ADA portion for these two ADA stalls. Uh, it adds um more defined parking to the project so that you get less opportunity or or um less of a likelihood that they

wind up parked out on the street waiting for things. It improves access into the site for unloading, etc. Uh, and we improve the landscaping quite a bit. that helps with the storm drainage as well. So, uh we wind up with eight trees, some good storm drainage on the property. Uh these little islands have trees in them currently and those will remain. Um some other uh things to note, uh it does not change the access at all. That stays exactly the same and exactly where it is. Um, any questions about the uh been through the development review process with the technical committee, spent some time with them getting the storm drainage right and making sure that they were serious about these um these committed improvements. So,

thank you. Any questions for staff? Okay, is we good? I didn't see you. Okay. Is there any questions? No. Okay, we're good. Thank you. Um then if we have no further any discussion. Nope. Okay. Then we'll move to motion. I move that the ORM city planning commission approve the requested site plan for the Ben the A motors located generally 662E700 South in the C2 community zone. Okay. Approximately 46 acres. Okay. Do I have a second? Second.

Okay. Rod moved and Mike seconded that we approve item this item. Item 4.2. What? Oh, 4.1. No, this is 4.2. Okay. It's labeled wrong. It's wrong on there. So, okay, then we'll go. So, we have a motion to approve that. Mike, I I I Okay, item 4.2 is approved. So, if there's not any further business from staff, then we will motion to I motion we adjourn. Journ. Okay, I have a motion to adjourn. Do I have a second? Second. Okay.

Well, yeah. And just remember, we're going to reconvene for the rest of our uh work session after this. So, uh we have Yeah. Mike moved. Hast seconded our motion to adjourn. So, Hum. I I I I I Okay, our meeting's adjourned at 5:52 p.m. And should we just stay here and re just finish our It's probably however you'd like to do it. Probably easier if we just stay here. Let's just stay here. Want to reconvene here? Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Fine with that.

Yeah, we'll reconvene in just give it a half second as we finish up here. Yeah, we're having time. Oh, wait. Way to go, Becca. We're back. I turned them off cuz you adjourned and took a break. So, yeah. Yeah. So, I was just trying to say we're going to have a short recess until we we convene our meeting. Okay. So, no more desire for short recess living right on. Okay. Well, you could have a recess should be long. It should be your mom.

Were you never a kid? Yes. No. Actually, I probably was.

They were never long enough. Right. So, we we ended on item two. Uh be a sophisticated This is the second overarching goal. Be a sophisticated regional retail hub. um long having considered itself the retail hub of Salt Lake County, ORM wants to become more um more sophisticated in that. So, let's talk about the sub goals on this. Enhance and grow ORM's historic reputation as a major retail hub by growing and attracting higherend and unique retail opportunities. We touched on some of that earlier um in the uh in the in the previous portion of the work session. Um how do we do that exactly? That's there's many different ways but this the goal is to do that uh become more sophisticated in our status as a hub. Second to improve the visual and physical appearance of state street and enhance interconnectedness between businesses to develop a stronger retail ecosystem. That's a great uh a great statement. We touched on that a little bit too, how those those even just facade renovations and good standards for development that aren't you want good standards for development, landscaping that don't harm existing businesses or sty interested businesses, but they're usually interested in in good-looking uh development as well. So, there's a balance to strength there. Third, to develop and strengthen key economic nodes along State Street. That builds on that previous uh statement about nodes as well. Um, any questions about those? Pretty, they're pretty straightforward.

I mean, this the question also goes along. Anything else you'd like to add? Yeah, that's Are there things we're missing in that conversation about being a sophisticated retail hub? And here we're talking more like overall value statement feelings about it. Not feelings, but like Yeah. What do what does Orin want to project about our retail future? Yeah, I think that covers the high points. So, too. Okay. What is higherend? I'm curious what that's supposed to mean. I think it covers a lot. I mean, we're already starting to get some of the higherend retail. There is retail that we do not have down here in Utah County that they have in Salt Lake County that could be attracted down here that would bring people into the city.

Well, yeah. I guess my question is what does that mean? Is it, you know, Porsche dealerships, jewelry stores, or is it, you know, electronic stores or Radio Shack? Cuz that that brings in a lot of money if you people buy in. But I think it's different things for different. Is it monetary or is it uh superficial higher end super? Well, that's that's a value judgment you're going to have to make for yourself. Well, that's I'm just asking about it. The statement is

the statement is what do we mean by higherend retail? I guess in my mind cuz I'm the one who wrote it. I was thinking the we've we we're getting the Lego store and we're getting the um we've gotten the Cheesecake Factory, but there are other things like I mean like we don't even have an REI down here. We don't have some other clothing stores. There are other Apple. We don't even Yeah, I had to go all the way up to fashion place to deal with something. Not buy an Apple. I didn't buy Apple. I needed my Apple account for another reason. That's a whole different story. But I'm just saying but that's that's a mental disorder.

But but even but but even that having to go up to Salt Lake again we talk about leakage and gaps, right? Like if we're going up to Salt Lake to go to certain places. Yeah. Probably need them down here. I'd say container store, but like a lot of stores have major high-end. I love the container. I love the Container Store. Everybody does. I think that's what you And then to the unique portion, it's it's boutique stores that require a you know certain places they want to be in places that look really nice. They want very certain requirements. So

well or also stuff that we usually we don't have or like specialy stores. I mean there are those out there. Well, and part of that too, um, that helps to bring if those are the kinds of places that you're getting that you're able to attract, then that that boosts your ability to have sectors that that don't sectors that pay for more than themselves help help sectors build that aren't paying for themselves for a while. Do you see what I mean? So, your arts and culture might not be um net positive for a while, but if if the area around it is doing really well, it'll do better sooner and you don't have to carry it for as long if you really want it for your culture and for your community because there's more than economics, right?

Well, often those are are never net positive. They may never be they may. It's very common for the arts districts to be, you know, not net positives, but culturally positive. Yes. But and I'm like I'm just using this. So that's an analysis you always have to make is do we feel as a community that this h has an intrinsic value that not a monetary value. Yeah. But that's and we'll talk about arts in a minute here but like under entertainment but if they're coming to go see a show and then we have a Longhorn steakhouse or insert some of Crazy Chris insert anything else here then that money. Yeah.

I mean it helps. in indirect ways, right? They're a draw and and that's maybe lacking currently. So that's what we're the heart of downtown plan is to is to try to bring people downtown. It's for drawing them in, not for necessarily making more money at some blackbox theater. It's to bring people there for other reasons. Make money selling hamburgers and jewelry and overpriced leather goods and whatever else. So, um, okay. Uh, next steps, recapture lost lost sales tax leakage. We've talked about that tonight. Conduct a target industry analysis to determine the gaps. That's again repeated, but it's another step that goes with this as well. And this one's specifically for retail growth,

right? Develop Oh, yeah. Thank you. Uh develop a comprehensive city policy to attract and incentivize high-quality retail investments. Initiate partnerships with major retail corporations and industry leaders to encourage flagship stores and unique retail experiences. upgrade infrastructure and public amenities in key retail districts to enhance accessibility and customer experience. Um, some of that goes with the the item above. Um, retail is modern retail is becoming more experiential. People care more and more in the research and the the white papers on it about their experience when they were spending their money, not just what they got for the money cuz it's that that was formerly intangible. Um but it it matters more to to newer consumers uh what their experience was

and City Creek and Salt Lake is an example of that.

Yeah, the experience matters. Um so let's see, I lost my place talking about experiential retail upgrade infrastructure. Okay. Promote mixeduse development projects that integrate retail with entertainment, dining, and residential spaces. Those are lifestyle centers. And that's a lot of the new uh the new thinking in in in development. Um lots of developers want to do that. Um and they're want to be involved in that. It doesn't have to mean that we need to create it doesn't necessarily have to lead to the creation of mixed juice zones, but targeted projects in certain areas where they make sense that would be mixed juice. Maybe that works. Um it depends. That's something we need to keep talking. So, I was the one that put that or recommended that that be included. And my logic behind that was as Maline and I talked, if we're looking with partnering with industry, funding, at least in my humble little opinion, is more likely to come if they have other opportunities associated with that one project. Yeah, that I that does make sense to Gary's point about his story about In-N-Out, for example. It's just a different version of that. There are um some boutique retailers and there they take up smaller spaces, but they have they have their requirement is they won't go into anywhere that doesn't have associated on the on the same site or within a certain distance high-end residential multifamily. There's not as many of those as there are In-N-Out Burgers, but there are some. And you you don't get um you don't get those without that. They they just they only go in lifestyle centers and that is the retail world's version of a lifestyle center. So they just don't it's a box that's got to be checked for them and they're not interested in negotiation. They just

some of those folks in putting this I'm not suggesting we build a bunch of highrises. No. Sure. Nor that it's just like retail on the floor ground floor and apartments above. It's just that they're within and we actually have a lot of those. If you really think about it, we do have some of those places around here.

There are more more often than not, they're they're they're mixed juice integrated projects as opposed to mixed juice buildings. Um they're not vertical mixed juice as much as they are horizontal mixed juice projects. And those are usually more more um they're less dense and they're more palatable to surrounding neighborhoods. And those are lifestyle centers. People like them, still work. So implement the u next one. This is a this is an interesting one. I like it. Implement uh marketing campaigns to position ORM as a premier shopping destination in the region. Um maybe we're not doing enough brand promotion. We should look at that and see what our kind of uh our visibility is as a as a as a city visav the development community. How do they view us? What's our and if we need to adjust that how do we do that? Um, we got a really talented uh, communications and PR department in the city. Um, promoting the city within the city. How do we promote the city outside the city? Are we doing a good job of that? We need to look at that. Um, foster collaboration between local businesses and national brands to support innovation and diverse retail offerings. There are a lot of opportunities with people that know important people in ORM. um lots of things that could be um that could be fostered there. Uh and we we can do a good job of of of finding ways to do exactly that to leverage the the things that we have, the people that live here that love Oram that are part of the community. uh and beyond that just that that want to locate here as they start locating how do we as one big business comes in or one notable brand comes into the city how do we build on that and bring others as well

and how do we foster that and I just want to reemphasize again on this one kind of where I'm where I was coming from with the high-end stuff and even a lot of what we're talking about here it's about I mean ORM was the mall for a long time for Utah County it was seen as that economic and as the county evolves and change and those centers move, we have to do something like we've been talking about to attract people back into ORM. And if we can get these things first, then they don't go into Lehi or they don't go down further south in the county.

Yeah, good point. Yeah, I mean that really those it's either going to be American Fork Lehi or it's going to be Spanish Fork Pacin that's really going to start pulling and yeah, they're going to need their retail to a certain extent because their centers are getting that large. So, how do we differentiate ourselves and keep ourselves relevant and bring those tax dollars and spend here? That's a that's great. Absolutely. Okay, a fun one.

Anything else or questions? If now let's talk about entertainment and being the entertainment hub of Utah County. So the first statement is as family city USA or should be a vibrant entertainment hub with activities and experiences that appeal to a wide range of ages and interests to become the premier destination for entertainment in Utah County. Um that's a that's a great statement. Uh anything we need to talk about with that? Anybody have do we does anybody not want to be the entertainment hub? That seems like it's up for the taking right now. I say we take it. be the entertainment hub. Okay,

I'm all on board. Me and Maline have been talking about it for a while and I I just got excited when we mapped it out and started discussing and whiteboarding the idea. It does seem that there's a real opportunity there, right? So, and and I think we're just uniquely placed within the county to be that. I agree. I agree. Okay. Um enhance. So, 3.2 to enhance tourism opportunities in ORM um from focus on outdoor recreation and tourism. That's right out of the is that out of the master plan? That's out of the master plan. That's out of our current parks and wreck master plan or is it that academics? Yeah.

So, yeah, focusing on outdoor recreation and tourism. Uh this statement right now just says enhance tourism opportunities in Our but the recreation as well. Is that Yeah. And then the and then the broader question which when Ron and I was were discussing was also do we want to make it specific he had brought up sports tourism um entertain you know we've talked about entertainment we talked about arts too in general in our discussions. So the question is do we just wanted a broad statement or do we wanted a more focused statement? Yeah.

As to what specifically we want to attract. Well, and some of the maybe some of the more focused some of the more specific ones could be in the next steps or or they could just be included in that item. It's really all um it's really all tourism and recreation. I guess it depends. Anybody have any strong feelings about it, including recreation or not? Change it to enhanced tourism and recreation opportunities or have it as a broader statement. I I like that myself. That's up to you guys. Do you like that? Okay. Yeah. So, enhanced tourism and recreation opportunities for I'm going to make that change in real time.

Yeah.

Okay. Um 3.3 and this is where we we we've had some good conversations about this strengthen the hospitality industry throughout ORM. That's going to be necessary if 3.2 is going to be realizable, right? Um, hospitality has to be there to support tourism and and recreation and sports tourism or what whatever it might be. Um, but what does that look like? Uh, what does that look like specifically? Well, the strategic plan would probably tell us what we're most well positioned to seek out first. But this goal is important. We we need the first step is recognizing that we need to strengthen that. And then I like um 3.4 U. You guys tell us if we have if you have strong feelings about it. Create an ORM arts and convention center or at least research the creation of one, what it takes to do it, where it ought to be located. Um, and then or where it would do the best and if it's feasible. How do we how do we say that? Is there a way to say that better or are we okay to just to say it? How does everybody feel about it? So for me at 3.3 I think it should be more targeted like a focused um you know like the corridors and the we talked about you know like a medical corridor place where

where the hospitality goes in. I don't we don't want to turn State Street into a hotel corridor type thing. So target where it belong where it belongs. Yeah. But there are you know great spots down university along the freeway are great targeted spaces. Um, mouth of the canyon is a great place especially for sports tourism and uh recreational stuff. People who are coming here are probably going to go up the canyon largely. So, you know, I I think we want to be fairly targeted in in uh in that

where we grow the hospitality industry. So part of the reason the way I wrote it this way, and I I'm not, you know, going to fall on my sword for wording, but part of the reason I worded it this way is at least for a current season, BYU is getting a lot of publicity for their football and basketball programs, and UVU is not doing so bad with basketball. There seems to me that there's a lot of sports tourism that we we don't have very many accommodations or um companies or whatever the word is that go after those, right?

And uh that seems to me like it could be a really good opportunity especially given the bus that runs down to the stadium etc. that we could do some things and targets the sports aspect of it with maybe not doing a whole lot of development. Maybe that's more of a marketing thing. I don't know. But anyway, yeah. Okay.

Well, and I think it's tied into some of the other things you've talked about, too. I mean, and we've all talked about, which is targeting specific industries coming in and saying, "Hey, we really need XBrand Hotel here. What do we do? What do we want? Because what levels do we want?" Because as we've talked about several times, we probably have a lot of twostar hotels, but we're lacking in higherend hotels, which again would help with other goals. So, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And some people with a little bit deeper pockets are looking for nicer places to stay when they come to the area. Yes. And if we had a nicer I mean, like Yeah. Other cities. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm not one of those people. I'd just be asking to sleep on one of your couches if I was coming back in for one of those rides. So,

I'm with you, Jared. Keep that in mind when I'm coming back. I'm with you, Jared. Me and you, Bo. Two star is perfectly good for me. I feel a little out of place in a two star. I'm not quite that eyebrow. So, I've got an approved currently unoccupied grandmother apartment. So, I Yeah,

you never know when I'm going to need it. Depending on how long this meeting goes, I might need it sooner than later if I um Okay. So I I made a note on that and I think we can we can massage that language a little bit as we move this forward and add some some statements about where it ought to be. There's ways we can do that kind of mirrored uh in the earlier subsections too. Uh if that's amendable to everybody I'll we'll we'll work on that. U what about the 3.4 creating new arts convention center that the same kind of thing. Do we need to do we need to add language about studying or anything like that or are we just going to go straight to create it? Create it. Okay. I don't know. That's my opinion, but I think we should. But if you want to, you let it go forward to the council from you as a suggestion that we just ought to do it.

Yeah. And if they want to step it back, that's I mean, it's it's the general plan. This is no commitment. They certainly get ahead at anything we put in. They do. They absolutely do. I mean, yeah, there's no down payment required to send it forward saying we need to create one. You can always change your

We're setting the bar create and if they want to choose something less as opposed to pulling back and saying maybe we should investigate this. And it goes it goes without saying that you're not going to you're not going to invest those public dollars without doing all the things we just talked about. So it's fine to say it if you're fine with it this way this broad then we'll leave it for it. Okay. Not hearing any big concerns with that statement. Let me go to next steps. Increase cultural and arts activities in the city. That's a good goal and a good step. Um determine opportunities to attract new entertainment venues and facilities to Oral. These are all to support becoming the entertainment hub of the county. The heart of downtown plan, we have that in the works with the council right now. Uh research creating a city of forum tourism commission or advisory council. It's a great step. Research creating a recreation district at the mouth of Provo Canyon on 800 North to encourage and facilitate recreationbased development. Um,

I want to reemphasize those last two actually currently are in our economic. Yeah, they're already part, right? They already are. We're just pulling them here to make it emphasized.

And the that first one, the creation of an ORM tourism commission, that goes a long way to what we were talking about with branding and advertising. That's exactly what that is. It's just specific to tourism, right? Who are we to other to other people outside of the city, the county, the state? Um, great. Other questions about those um, next steps because that brings me to my next point. There is no goal four. I I kind of like this as the three. Um, as we've looked at it in different drafts, we've talked about, well, do we split that out and make it a separate goal? I I think things fit really well. To me, it reads real well as it is. and the the fewer uh the fewer bulleted numbers there are, the more sort of understandable it remains. Um, and they are kind of all related. I I like it at three. If if you feel like things need to be broken out, I would ask you to uh read it, read through it. It's on that uh link. You can follow there and read it. And if something doesn't make sense to you, it's easy to make a comment. Um, you can you just click that. I'm going to show you on Can you all see my screen? Mhm.

So, if I'm if I'm you and I'm looking at this later tomorrow, next weekend, and I want to make a comment about one of these things, I pick I'm going to pick this one. I highlight it like this. I right click it. No, I don't. I don't. I go up here to this little thing that looks like a word box, almost like a cartoon is saying something to you. And you click it. That's saying show all the comments. So, that's how I do it. I go to this one, little blue one,

the one that's got the blue plus sign in it. This one will show all of the comments all along. Go over here to the side once you've highlighted it and click that little box that says add a comment. And it'll pull up it'll highlight that in a different color and it'll pull up a place for you over on the side to say um I don't know what I want to say. I had it in my head a second ago. Um I'm just going to say leakage cuz I can't remember what it is. But I did wait comment and then when you're done typing it, you click comment and it will put it in and then everyone can see it as they come through. Yeah. And as we said before, you can call call Jared, call me, text me, email me, and if you there's anything you want to add.

If you're not Yeah. If you're not comfortable doing it this way, do it any any way you want to. This is just one way of doing it. It's one tool. Avail yourself of just phones and emails. We're find whatever you want. Sticky notes on the fridge. Sticky notes on the fridge. Say, "Come over to my house. take the sticky notes. Put them all over my front door. You're good and I'll get them. It's fine. Anyway you want to comment on it. Please feel free anytime. So yeah, we'll probably be moving on from economics. Let's move on from e I'm going to just make it definitive. We're going to move on from economics next. Yeah, I think we have a good base if people think of things or as we kind of tweak other areas. Yeah, we can always come back and add more. This isn't final. This

is set in stone, right? We're still drafting, but this if we move on from working on this draft portion to working on Oh, we're going to go on parks and wreck and public utilities. Parks and recck and public utilities next. But that doesn't mean you don't get to think about economic development anymore. You have ideas we and it'll go into those too. I mean that the arts and entertainment and all that. Yeah. Next time next time. Well, I I think more than just a plan, cuz I agree we have a good foundation here, but I think several of us are very interested in translating this to some recommended next concrete steps to actions. Right. And that that's more than clear. I I will carry that message forward to the best of my ability.

Absolutely. Happy to help support that message. You bet. I will I will make it known to everyone I work with that you guys are interested in seeing real action taken on this. Well, that's great. David here heard several of his comments. Sure. And uh Okay, so our the next time we're together will be November 5th. We probably will have a I think we have four or five things that'll be on the regular agenda. So, we probably won't get to come back into one. So, we'll we'll get what we can on the parks and yeah, just be thinking about parks and recreation. There's a great guide for it. I mean another there's that's another one that has just like economics has a master plan. Yeah. Really interesting to go through and see what people's priorities were again in 2022.

Y after pandemic in preparation for that coming up if you'd like we can send you all email you all a copy of the parks and recck plan. You can browse through it as you because then you're going to start seeing drafts of the parks and recck plan in here. So as a to build on that and kind of build your vocabulary for that discussion, take a look through it. It's really quite interesting as a as a master plan. So yeah. So okay, anything else for staff, guys? Any other comments? Okay, then we appreciate your time. Yeah, we'll just adjourn our work session at 6:18 p.m. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Commissioner. Thanks. See you.

So, I assume Rebecca would like us to get out of here sooner than later. Is that correct? The the baby's already here.