Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

What about us, Susan? I will call the planning commission work session to order at 4:33 p.m. on April 15th, 2026 in the ORM city council conference room. And do we want to start with the agenda review then? Sure. You want to start there? Yeah.

So, so the only item on the agenda tonight is the uh is the 355 West University Parkway um quest to reszone that you continued to this to tonight. Um in the meantime, since the um since the last meeting, the conversation was about development agreement kind of limiting the uses that folks were worried about. They've turned that in. It was attached to the agenda for review. Uh put some I put a little blurb. The staff looked a lot the same, but there were a few changes just to reflect that. So, she's limited um I keep saying she because the gal from West um they've they've gone ahead and proposed limiting several of those uses. I put them in a slide tonight so we can talk about those. They're all the ones that the neighborhood meeting plus a few additionals that she's like we have no interest in those either. So, if further limiting it will help. That's great. But that's all that the development agreement does. It just limits the uses. Doesn't propose a site plan. It doesn't limit anything else. Does that make sense? And just to confirm that isn't difficult to administer for the city going forward or it is

right now it's not it's it's not the greatest way to do things honestly just because in 15 years we hope through the systems that we have we use a system called DevTrack right now remember we'll upload it to that so hopefully when somebody let's say in 10 years from now we're all gone we're all somewhere else now my problem

everything goes then they would see that development agreement. It'll be up in the files and they can see it and go, "Oh, when have this use coming in that is not on the list of approved uses, but business licensing, we do business license reviews, we don't necessarily always check dev track. I'm going to look at a business license, the C2 zone, we we might map it with some kind of asterisk or something that let us know some overhead to what they were saying." Yeah.

Yeah. people change, the staff changes and that institutional knowledge gets lost and nobody goes to check for it. And so what what we've talked about, Matt and I were talking about this a little bit could do something in the mapping that would be like a where any where we where we have a zone where we've made a change that's associated development group, but that we would put an asterisk or something next to that labeling so when it comes up in the system and they check the zoning on it because that's one thing we do check for business licensing and zoning. they go, "Oh, I need to check for development agreement. See, that's probably the best way we could do it." So, that's what we would. So, if the city missed, like if

years from now, somebody misses it, you you a building permit for a gas station that they don't want, then potential litigation against city, right? That that's a liability. come out and say, "Hey, if if a neighbor remembered that that wasn't something they were allowed to do, honestly, in 15 years, who knows if C2 will even still be a zoning that we have on the books. All the same uses will still be everything can change." So, it's not it's an imperfect way of doing things, but it's it's not a whole lot less perfect than zoning in general. And the property owner could petition to change the development agreement on their name, right?

Yeah. They they ask for a change to it and it has to be reviewed again. So sometimes that keeps it alive in that institutional memory, the newer the newer memory. So yeah, that's that's the case. So that's what's on for tonight. Uh any questions about it? Other than that, everything's the same. What would happen if this weren't on the agenda tonight? We do we still meet? Do we show up and just sit there and wait for everybody to come and if we had no agenda tonight, we would either have cancelled it or we would still want to do we might still want to do a session, but we would do the open meeting

necessarily do the open meeting or we might um yeah, we might just have an extra long work meeting coming or sometimes you just get a bonus Wednesday night off and you don't have to come to a meeting. Rarely if ever should you get a bonus Wednesday night off. And I'm being serious. The planning commission has far too much work to do than to not use the meetings that are available.

And as a matter of fact, like we only have this agenda item on tonight. We're going to go through some training and we're going to talk about some things. Uh and Quinn Mikum the council rep wanted to some point take a few minutes and and talk about some things with uh planning commission and we would too what we want to do is uh get our money's worth up you know since since we're paying such a high salary you all 10 bucks a week

this this This is the most expensive meal you're going to have all week. I guarantee you. No, but there are things like the general plan. We are far behind on the general plan review of where we should be. Uh there are some other things coming up that are legislative items and and things and ordinances that need to be written that we need to look at and discuss. And so tonight, since this is the the first meeting, I mean, there's only one item on the action agenda that starts at 5:30.

Frequently, what hopefully in the future, what you'll see is if there is no meeting, we'll just have the work meeting go a couple hours, two two and a half hours. And we've also done the thing where we adjourn the work session, have our formal meeting because it's only like one item like tonight and then come back and continue talking about things. Yeah.

And so we we may do a variety of those things and there is you know at some point we do need to have a conversation of I can tell you there is too much to be done. We don't have you do not have enough time to do everything and staff has to do a lot but even as staff we don't have enough time, money, people to do everything also. And so we've got to figure out how we're going to do things and uh go about doing those things. And we can talk about that I think here in a minute. uh unless there's something on the agenda uh tonight um that you want to talk a little bit more about, we can go through the training we have which part of the training tonight is kind of uh so somebody wants to do something, what do they do? What is the process? How do you go about this? How does somebody go get through the city system until it comes in front of you and the different things to do? And so we can talk about that and things that we do and do not do. Um uh because as insiders, you know, we've been dealing with this for a long time as employees. What may be obvious to us because we've done it a hundred times, you know, in the last two months. uh we want to make sure you understand our process and how things work and the workflow and can ask questions about where we go from there and then at the end if we can have some time to maybe talk about some things that we might need to do here in the near future.

So are there any other questions about the agenda item at this point or that's good. You said that there was an attachment that had the list in the when you Oh, go ahead. You can in the So when you go email this week, there was an email. There was come from cuz I It might have come from Grace. Grace. Yeah. And then it usually links to the ORM meeting site. If you're ever in doubt, always just search Ora meetings and you can find it on there. And then it's also a packet or you can look at individual attachments. And if you don't see an email for whatever reason, call it from Yeah, that's why

Raz or Rebecca often. Yeah, sometimes it'll come from them instead of me. I usually try to do it just to feel like I'm involved. Gary referred to me as an insider made me feel really good. That's the warmness I felt all week considering myself an insider. Um just trying to stay relevant usually. So yeah, there's an that development agreement that they proposed the draft of it is is attached there as well. So you see the the item and then there's the staff report and the and I talked about it in the staff but it's also just the whole agreement is attached because it's not very big. So yeah,

we can and we can go through that for sure as well and I'll go through it in the slides. Any other questions? Does that make sense? Okay.

Um do you want me to start? Yeah. Okay. So, tonight um we just wanted to talk like Gary said about kind of how the process works and what we're going to be talking about mostly is not Gary mentioned we we try to take time to do some of the other things the planning commission does the different ordinances we need to work on the the general plan the the active transportation plan things like that those are long range items they don't we'll do most a lot of that work in work sessions before it becomes a public hearing for you. So, what we're going to talk about mainly tonight are um things that come from the current side of planning, the applications they give you. How does a person that wants to build whatever make that happen? And we're going to walk you through it soup to nuts. Okay? And so, if you have any questions as we go, just jump in. I just assume it's not a I'm not a presenter. I'm a discusser. So, here we go. Okay. Um the development application process. So, when a person is asking, we get this question from from people a lot. Um, I don't like people to confuse permits with applications for development or entitlement. The term we use is usually entitlement. So, a piece of property um has certain rights that go with it. And to use those rights, you need an entitlement. And that's what you guys are mainly processing. Um, zone changes, text amendments, general plan amendments, subdivisions of property, um, amendments of subdivisions. I failed to put a couple up there. Site plan reviews, a lot of things that people want to do. Um, and site plan's a good example. Somebody wants to build a gas station. They come in and ask us, "I've got this piece of property I'm looking at. I want to build a gas station on it. What do I need to do?" Well, they may need one or literally all of these kinds of of entitlements, and they have to all be applied for if they need them. So, we'll we'll walk through what that can look like. Um, but for a couple of them, I think the first thing to to to to note and be sure of or make sure we understand is that none of them are

applications for building permits. All that comes after. So, people often say that in a public, you hear it in public hearings. So, you're going to just let them build this gas station there. No, that's what we're talking about when we have these public meetings. And like Gary said, there's a lot that goes into it before it even gets there. When you are all reviewing something for a zone change, for example, or even a site plan, you're talking about how, whether and or how they get to do something like a gas station, when they're all done, they still have to come back through and ask for building permits and other things, bond for that development, all of it. Um, but people tend to think it's going to happen right away. Sometimes nothing even comes from these. Often times, people go through this process, entitle something on a piece of property, and then never actually build. the dreaded gas station or whatever it might be. Um,

quick question. So once all the entitlements are in place, the building permit process is more a staff function than it is a legislation. Yeah, the building permit process will be completely within staff and it'll all be our part of it becomes really easy as planning because we've gone through the part we're going to review with you all usually in public and so we're we're just checking to make sure it all matches what you approved. So we give them the zoning, we give them the entitlements and everything and then they just have to apply for the building permit and have it processed.

Yeah. They still have to meet all those codes. So it doesn't u people sometimes ask really really detailed questions about well how are they going to do this if this is going to be how is this how is this going to work? How are they going to get the power for this? How do we have enough water for this? All those questions get answered in some degree in the review process for entitlements. But just to make sure we have water, just to make sure we have I don't know what size of meter they're going to need. I don't want to try to answer that during the entitlement process. Not usually anyway. Right. So, but yeah, they they still have a long ways to go when they're done. I have to ask those builders. Um and licenses too. Business licenses and building permits all come after. When we entitle something, we are not licensing them or giving them a permit to start building. All those codes separate. That make sense? Okay. Let's talk about um just kind of the general stuff before we the general ideas before we get into the specifics of how it moves from stage to stage. Um concept plans. So even before any of that happens, there are concept plans that sometimes get reviewed. We don't have a formal process. We don't have a requirement that you submit an idea to us as a group to let us give you some some direction on it or tell you what. When I say group, I mean the staff. But we do um spend half our lives or maybe more on the phone uh talking to people about stuff they want to do.

Bonus points for anyone who knows who that is in that photograph. Improve your life. Start watching black books on TV. English comedy.

Really good English. Um we we do though we'll tell some people will ask a lot of questions and we wind up saying you know what this might be it might be useful for you in your case to come in and just have a quick meeting with us or an online meeting with us about what it is you want to do so we can tell you all the different things you're going to need to look at at at answering all the kinds of plans you're going to need to put together to even make an application. So, we don't have a pre-application form or a concept application form, but sometimes we will set up as a courtesy meetings for people with us as staff to go over what they want to do so we can tell them, well, you're going to need to do X and Y and Z. That's often how they they wind up knowing what applications to make. Um, a good good example of this, yesterday a developer called me and says, "I have a piece of property. uh what would you like to see there? And it's like, okay, I know generally where the property is. I don't know off the top of my head the zoning. I say, well, what does the zoning code say? We'd like to see whatever the zoning code allows. Oh, well, it's zoned X, and that's not what I want to do. Okay. So, what do you mean? What do I want to see? Well, you know, really, what do you want to see? I want to see what the zoning code allows and if it's not in the zoning code, what does the general plan are like? Well, the general plan says something different than what I want to do. But tell me what does what does the city really want to

I'm telling you and I'm and I and our answer will be what the zoning code says or what the general plan says. That's what we want. That's the general plan is our forwardlooking plan and the zoning code has taken that plan and put it into actionable items today on the ground that you can do. If you want to do something contrary to that, you need to make an application and go, well, yeah, but I don't want to waste my time. I, you know, how do I find out what really people want to do? I think I've had this conversation. Yeah,

the the interpret the interpretation of what does the city want to see here is I don't want to do what it says. So, how do I how do I get around? That's what they're really saying. And it makes sense. So, we we can we can talk about that. I I think the last thing I wanted to say about this is it's important to know that we're not we don't have the time or the inclination actually to be on the on the hunt looking for people to fill certain pieces of property. There's there's no lack of people looking at vacant property. We're not soliciting,

right? As people ask for stuff, it it becomes apparent that it'll go better on the whole if we take a minute to meet with them sometimes in a pre application setting and and guide them through that making that process happen. Uh it saves us time in the long run. You have somebody with a spinning arrow on the side of the street say come build on this piece of property. Right. Exactly. time spinning.

Now, having said that, occasionally there will be a project that comes in that the city is, "Yeah, we're in favor of it." And and you'll see one very soon. Not only are we in favor of it, we're the applicant of it, and it's our property, and we're trying to get our property reszone so that a residential development can go reszoned into an RA subdivision. and we've had a neighborhood meeting and we've gone through that process. We've made an an a formal application. It's going through our formal review process. Is that the PFP? Is it what's the name type of propert public facilities currently zoned?

Yeah. Uh it's over by Crispy Cream kind of near this project that you're I saw the the meeting though. You know that that is a city project and in in essence we are the developer of it you know but again your response to it should be so how is this in the best interests of ORM just because the city wants to do it your recommendation should still follow the same analysis as if we were private developers.

True. Okay. Um, but if not, we'll get kicked off. You'll start paying for dinner.

There you go. I wanted to talk about neighborhood meetings a little bit, too. Just one of the things that happens after this, for example, at this point, let's say we had a concept meeting with somebody that wants to build that gas station we talked about. Um, and we say to them, well, if you want to build this, you're going to need a change of zoning. Um, that person then the next step they take is to organize a neighborhood meeting. Our code requires that zone changes, um, I think it was a number, zone changes, commercial site plans that are adjacent to residential zoning and any project that involves multif family development, those all have to go through a neighborhood meeting before they can apply with us. So, from having talked with them endlessly on the phone and maybe having had a concept meeting with them,

we'll know that they need to do a neighborhood meeting or not. And we we our part of that as staff is to give them the names or addresses of properties that need to be noticed for that neighborhood meeting. But other than that, when you see those neighborhood meeting minutes in your in the packets that go on on the internet for it, that's all run by them. We don't we don't attend those meetings. We're not part of those meetings. Um we just send them out to to do it. And the city facility for those meetings are just mouse that they figure out where they want to do it. Okay. It was their meeting completely under our code right now.

You'll see some like they rent a room at the rec center, but that's not a city meeting. That's just them using a public. We don't usually we don't trying to make sure that it's clear that that's their neighborhood meeting, not us. Yeah. And when they go through the neighborhood meeting, they do not have an active application with us yet. They're trying to get ready to do one. So that's kind of it's important to know when it actually becomes an application. So we might have been in contact with them and spoken with them. They know we know kind of what they're going to do, but we do not run that meeting and we don't have an actual application at that point. Required to give x amount of days notice meeting

at least at least right now it's at least a week. We advise them to do two. Um and they and it depends on they either 500 foot notices or 1,000 foot notices depending on the kind of thing that it is. So most of the time they end up being usually thousand feet of just the thousand foot radius of of where you're planning on doing the thing. Yeah. So we and they usually it depend it can wind up being you know a few dozen notices or it can wind up being several hundred.

So we renotic the the funny thing too is that most times those same folks wind up getting noticed for the planning commission meeting as well. can get a little confusing. They get a neighborhood meeting notice, months later they get a notice about a public hearing for the planning commission and then months later they get a not a notice about a public hearing at the city council depending on the kind of application it is. Um but yeah, it it can get a little confusing and they're responsible to deliver the notice. Yeah, they have to mail it, but our code says it has to be received in the mail. So they could they can do hand billills if they want to, but they also have to mail it.

Got it. So you have to assume x amount of time to get it there in the mail, right? On top of your week. So you're two weeks or two week plus. Yeah. Be a reasonable assumption.

Right now in that list that we send out. So I come in, I say my property's right here. We take the perimeter of the property, go out 1,000 ft, scrape all the addresses. the addresses are for the tax notice that the the adjoining property owners have at the county. We can also add things in. I put my home address in Provo is always included on those lists. So, I'll get uh a notice of a neighbor every neighborhood meeting that goes on in this city. I should get a notice for it because I take them at at home. might look at them just try to make sure you know it's like hey I didn't hear about this one what have is there a problem or something like that we can add you if you're interested

been added I've been added you've been added have all of them been added frankly you should think so okay so if you're not getting those neighborhood meeting notices and that's where you saw the cities yeah that's where I saw that facility

so if you haven't been getting those notices let us know and we'll get your address added to the list. One of the things you can tell the difference usually city stuff accepting is that it will come in some other envelope like I've gotten some really like why am I getting something from Washington and they open to be like oh it's a notice of a neighborhood meeting cuz the owner of whatever the cell towers some headquarters somewhere else and if it's coming if it's a notice for our meetings like the one for the PF reszone that's coming up those ones are now coming in ORM city folders so you can kind of tell the difference You give them the list.

We generate the list in conjunction with the county. You're pretty responsible to mail this. We give them the list that they can put into Word Perfect and do a mail merge with their letter and stuff the envelopes and mail them out. But other than you getting the envelope, there's really no controls to know if they really did that. I mean, yeah, we we don't trusting or whether they really did it unless we get a report back and people tell us, "Yeah, there was a neighborhood meeting and I was there."

And to kind of emphasize something Gary brought up, it goes to the taxpayer, which does mean occasionally we get people that come later and are like upset because they didn't know there was a neighborhood meeting because they're renting or they're not the owner of the property. So, that does occasionally come up and happen. Yeah, if you have a large apartment complex, the individual apartments are probably not getting notices. It's going to whoever the accountant somewhere who is paying the property taxes on that. Got it. Okay. And development committee. So, we're going to get to a flowchart at the end. Don't worry. I know you're all worried about there not being a flowchart.

So, they they hold the neighborhood meeting. Now, they can formally make an application.

Now, they can apply to us and we'll and we'll check that out. Um, making an application is um tricky. Sometimes folks are not always that great at it. Um, the things that they turn in like to check that to make sure that it's actually a application. Um, sometimes they don't turn in a lot of information. Information is just kind of real bad and we'll kick that back and ask them for more stuff before we start reviewing. But generally speaking, let's assume that our gas station, our hypothetical gas station zone change request is a good one. They fill out all the forms, right? They pay the fee. We put it into development review committee. So, this is this part's a little bit um this part's a little bit weird. Um nothing comes to you as a planning commission that has not been through the development review committee, the DRC. The DRC meets um I was I was typing this in saying that can't be right, but it's right. We meet three different times every week. The DRC almost every week. Uh we have a review that we do on Thursdays. We have one tomorrow morning. Um when Becca and Grace get new applications in, they enter them into the system into a program called Blue Beam and we create a a session for Blue Beam for all the new applications that have made and we review those together on Thursday. Hopefully we review them a little bit before Thursday as individuals and then on Thursday we're all together on an online meeting checking our our notes against each other. When I say we, that is planning engineering staff, the building department staff, the fire department staff folks that review the fire marshals, the ones that review it. Uh folks from public works, storm water, water, sewer, and even the legal department has a representative in those meetings in that group in DRC. Um so we do meet three different times that Thursday one we review everything in real time together. Uh on Monday mornings we have another meeting where we coordinate all those and make sure everyone is still in the right head

space or still thinks the same thing, nothing changed over the weekend or after that Thursday. And we coordinate making sure everything that's ready to go on is really ready so we don't send something on without somebody's um final answers given. And then we also have the the formal DRC meeting which is a public meeting that we broadcast um on and everything. And that one we do on Mondays at 11:00. And what that one does is set up what's going to come to the planning commission and what's um some things actually and the flowchart you'll see. Some things can be entitled by staff. Not a lot, but a few things are staff only deals. You'll notice that as sad as it's going to be for you, you're not going to see any applications for snow cone shacks. You don't have to approve those that we have determined that we are qualified. That's pretty much it.

Thank heavens. It was determined that that should be the limit of dice is on your shave ice comes to you. Yeah, that's that's a step up. That's right. We do that and then some some additions to buildings that are very very small that are less than 10% of the building. Those can be administrative site plan approvals, but other than that, everything comes to you and that goes through that public meeting that we have and the DRC sends representatives. Often times they're different ones than have been in the Thursday meetings, but sometimes they're not. And they'll get together, we have a formal meeting, and we say, "These ones are ready to move on to the planning commission, and we them we're we approve them, but what we're approving them for is to be reviewed by the planning commission." Does that make sense?

And and Jared, maybe you're covering this a second. This DRC reviews both legislative amendment requests like a reszone, text amendment. Are you gonna Oh, no. Just you're fine. Go. A

and administrative things like a snow cone shack. Okay. And so you got to remember what DRC sends something to planning commission. If it's an administrative item, what we are saying on the administrative item is we believe as staff this complies with all city codes and that it needs to be approved. I mean, that's literally what we're saying is it complies with our current law and it's an administrative project. On legislative projects, we can't say it apply it complies with current city law because a legislative item by its very nature is a request to change a zone, to change a text amendment, to change the general plan. What we're doing is merely looking at it to make sure it's got all of the issues we think that would likely come up and need to be addressed that they have been addressed. not that we are approving it or recommending that it be approved because sometimes a developer, this happens all the time. Oh, they get in front of you and they say, I want to thank staff. They've been so helpful. We've we've done everything staff has directed us to do. And what they're trying to do is give you the impression staff's in favor of this. You need to approve on an administrative item. If we've sent it to you, yeah, we think it needs to be approved. on a legislative item. We are not saying it needs to be approved. We're saying it's just appropriate now for this application to to come in front of

Perfect. Any questions? Makes sense. Okay, let's talk a little bit more about the development committee. Sorry, I just wanted to show you that this is what it looked like when I started planning. Can I just say one thing for you, please?

That was two months ago, right? So, and correct me if you have a different opinion on this, Gary, but if they send you an administrative item, that means that they've reviewed it and believes that it meets city code. That does not mean that you shouldn't be asking questions about it. In other words, right, the reason it comes to you is you want to validate that. You want to understand that. So, uh you don't need to just say, "Okay, pull out your rubber stamp on that." It's that let's understand why this was forwarded. Let's understand why this complies with city code. Let's see if if there's anything that doesn't make sense to us. Uh because that still is is your role on administrative things, right?

Yeah.

That that's your role. And and that role though is limited to discerning whether the code has been complied with. Um, oftent times I've been in planning commission meetings and administrative item that they'll get into, well, so are you going to do the building or are you going to flip this to somebody else? And and you know who owns your company? Are they out of California? Honestly, all of that, while it might be interesting to know, would be irrelevant and an impermissible reason to turn down a project. So if you ever continue an administrative item or turn it down, it has to be linked to a statutory or codebased reason.

Thanks. Perfect.

Okay, let's um I know we got a couple more things to talk about when we're done with this, so I'm going to keep going through this and we'll get finished. When the DRC is looking at things, in the old days, we did everything by hand. Now we I mentioned we use Blue Beam, right? So everybody can see everybody else's comments and we can coate those all together. Um, we're doing a few different things. We're looking for what's needed for a complete review. The DRC review is when we sometimes wind up saying, you know, we are going to need a traffic study on this. We'll ask them for we are going to need uh geotech reviews or whatever. We get all kinds of plans and sometimes you won't see those, but they come out in that DRC review. So, I just wanted to um sometimes it gets asked, well, do we have this? I recently um it came up about a traffic study. Do you have a traffic stud? We do. I hadn't included it because I I tend not to stuff. It can be a huge, you know, a whole bunch of stuff and be overwhelming. So, I try not to everything we get. I mean,

if we gave you everything, it would be a stack of papers this thick on even simple projects. And so, part of it is the art of us trying to discern what's really important to give you. But if you have a question like that, it's always like Quinn was at saying, it's always appropriate to ask us about those things.

We have storm drain calculations and everything, too. And we're not going to put those those numbers in your in your staff reports, but what we put in there um in the in the reports that you see will be a blur about the DRC saying, well, you know, for from the get-go, it's been through the DRC if it's on your agenda. Now, the level at which the DRC reviews things will change. Like Gary mentioned, we the DRC reviews even uh legislative items like a zone change for this gas station, for example. Let's keep with our gas station. So, for the zone change for the gas station, the DRC is going to review that zone change. And most of the guys are going to say, um, you know, I say guys, and I shouldn't because Chelsea is like the most formidable member of the DRC. So, but the folks on the DRC review those things and and they'll review it to a certain degree and say, "I have a big concern with this." For example, we um Chelsea, for example, on a zone change might say this whole facility down here that you're looking at changing is all regional storm drainage. You may not see that, but that's going to be an issue zone change. If we change this and they want to pave that over, it's going to be a problem. So, it's good for the applicants to know that in the get-go, and it's good for us to know that as a city. That's the kind of thing we'll put in your reports about zone changes. But the level of detail will be less than if you're looking at a site plan, which is less than if you're looking at a building permit. Okay? So, it just ramps up as it goes. Um, but so, for example, on zone changes, we we may not have storm drain calculations. But for zone changes that require that are going to be significant changes, uh we'll we'll ask them to do preliminary calculations for things. We'll ask them for some preliminary grading. We'll ask them for for preliminary utility planning and things just to make sure that we'll function. But that's the level. And then when it comes back in for the serious plans, if it comes back in for a big site plan, we want those all those civils all beefed up, those civil plans to the point that we can really review them and know whether it works. So we're reviewing for compliance at that point. Codes and regulations, fire codes get reviewed, engineering standards, storm water regs, provision of utilities, and then

the dance begins.

Can I jump in on those legislative ones? A good example of that is not too long ago the city reszone portion of the old work perfect campus. And it has become residential. And we came through, you know, storm water, sewer. Everybody looks at this and it's like, yes, we have sewer capacity. Yes, we have storm drain capacity that we can sewer this site. We can uh storm drain uh handle that. What we don't do is go in and do detailed calculations and things like that. So now it gets approved. Now they have that entitlement. They come in for building permits and the site plan. And through that process to actually hook into our sewers and storm drains, we we find out, yeah, you're going to have to bring in 5 ft of fill and raise the site to be able to get the sewers to flow and things like that. And now people are concerned. But when we do a DRC review, we're not saying uh we're saying we have sewer capacity. We're not saying exactly how the sewer will work. So if something like that on a legislative item could be a big concern, then we would need to know that so that we could go back and have the applicant do more work on an idol. and and we hope we catch those things. Sometimes it we try to do as much review as we can and and know what we're dealing with. But if you have concerns when you're looking at legislative items and you raise a concern, then those are the kind of concerns that need to be brought up so we can say, "Well, we need to look at that more then and go back." That's when it's wholly appropriate to say, "This may not be ready yet. Let's take another

look." Yeah. And with that like uh uh westerly westerly way westerly way you know that the issue of the traffic study came up. A traffic study will never tell you you should or should not approve something. It just gives you the conditions as they exist and are projected conditions in the future. It won't tell you yeah do this. It's just a fact point for you to look at and take into consideration. Okay, any questions?

What kind of factors go into um projecting traffic changes?

Uh lots and lots. uh and we probably could have a training and a work session to go into that more detail, but we look at existing conditions now and we look at uh if there are entitlements already in places or the general plan. We think, oh, this area next to that where we are could develop and could develop in a certain way. We look at all of those those things like on uh Whit Stone or uh the Wilkerson farm area. Some people like, why does this stub street end there to the north? Well, in our long-term projections and plans, that area to the north is likely to be residential. So, we would take that into consideration in a traffic study and report. And that's why you see a stub street there. a lot a lot of things go in

and a lot of these studies are experientially uh dictated too because obviously they've got tons of experience with elements that have been you know so they can say you know this worked out exactly right this one didn't you know and so that will help dictate when they come out with that ABC kind of graphic flow that's because they have a wealth of experience and background that say this will work

yeah and that that whitest stone and the existing development with the holiday oil and the homes right next to it and let's say westerly way were approved. I can tell you now a local road under a traffic study that we would have would come back and say yeah can handle it all on one street. From a planning perspective it's probably not the best idea. Public safety not the best idea. you'd want multiple ingress, egress areas and stuff like that. So, you could have a traffic report that comes back and say the infrastructure is fine and can handle it. It doesn't necessarily mean you want to put 10,000 vehicle trips a day down a local road, which operationally you could.

So, nobody would like that. So in that decision we talked about this you know we read the motion pass to add that go back to Geneva but this idea of livability and I've just been pondering how do we define livability because I don't want to litigate this I'm just curious to to learn from this experience we made that decision but was it on on what basis was it because we had neighbors who want to protect their kids. How do you define that?

Livability is in a legislative context without an ordinance defining what that would be. Like Provo did. Provo defines what livability is. So, you build a road that can handle 10,000 vehicle trips a day. Once a traffic study shows you're at 1,500 vehicle trips a day, you don't approve anything more until you have different access points to keep it down to 1500. We don't have that.

We don't have that. So what livability is whatever a rational person could believe it is. That's the legal standard is a rational. So could provo standard be considered a rational level and in that case I'm curious were we above or below that in this case? I don't think we're below it.

Yeah. Um and so on on these types of zoning laws and regulations as a deraggation of your common law right to do what you want with your property. The only legal requirement we really have for it is that it has to be a rational uh restriction or a rational regulation and and and that is extremely broad difference. So it basically on that would come up to be whatever the planning commission andor ultimately the council thinks. I I I'd actually like to bring that into our discussion we'll have right before we go in. Awesome.

Maybe we can let Jerry finish. Stop by meeting. I'm running it and I will second off. Yeah, I was like just finishing this little bit of the we need to get through this and then Quinn has something he would like to discuss. So

I'm going to show you my last slide. Planning commission. You're familiar with this because you are the planning commission. So we're going to go to the last slide instead. Okay. After it gets through the DRC and we recommend it to you, the planning commission does it has its role. Some things going to the city council, some things don't. Let's get to the chart. So, pre-application, this is everything we just talked about. Pre-application happens. If if it goes through the neighborhood meeting, they finish making their application with us. Great. Goes to us, we get it into the DRC. We often do red lines, send them back to them, they respond to our red lines, we're still not happy, things are still missing, we send it, and it goes round and round and around. Once it goes to the DRC's public meeting that we talked about on Monday, then it can go on to the planning commission. We get it ready for planning commission notices that get posted. We have notices to mail out. We have staff reports. Organize the meeting um and the agendas and such and we have the employment commission. Let's say that goes well at your public hearing and you you either make a decision and I'm missing a line here cuz it can either go from the DRC to entitlement or the planning commission to entitlement if it's a site plan or something or it can go on to city council. If it gets through city council and the city council entitles it, great. Our zone change for our gas station. Now what do they do? They're entitled for a change of zoning. They got a C2 zone. Now they can build a gas station and they go right back and start again at pre-application or not pre-application, sorry, an application for the site plan and they go through the site plan to the planning commission and then they're entitled. Great. Now what do they do now? They can apply for a business license and a building permit. There's there's always more to do until that moment. Okay. So I'll share these with you so you can

and Jared will put that additional arrow in and then share it with everybody. It's right there on the side. I did it wrong somehow. Yeah, it's there. It's hard to see. Comes right back to application. But I'll share this with you all so you can take a look. But it's there's a million different Oh, yeah. I know the area you're talking about. I'm sorry. But that's it in the fast version of the worst flowchart. Not a chart maker. This is something we can talk about more and yeah, clearly there's stuff we need to get into. I think traffic reports would be a great thing to have an explanation of going through and how to read them. That would be fun. Yeah, we'll do that what they mean. Maybe have John come and I'd love to. Okay. Thank you. You bet. And as we were previewing, Quinn has something he wanted to bring up and talk about with us briefly.

Thanks.

Uh I I just had a couple of thoughts as as um you guys are getting settled in. Um open for discussion. Love to have Meline's thoughts on this as well as uh all of our planning staff as well. um a lot of what's going to come to you, right, you're going to have to react to because it's initiated by other people. And that's mainly what you've seen so far. Those of you that that are new here, uh as as Gary indicated earlier in the meeting, we have a lot of stuff that is not going to be proactively brought to you by a resident or a developer, but that in my opinion, we hired you to do. Okay? And I I I can really only speak for myself. I can't speak for the full city council, but in my role as the liaison, I'm just speaking for myself here. that particularly when we end up with an agenda like we have tonight, which is a little bit thin in terms of stuff we have to react to, that I would love for you all in consultation with staff um to have a list of things that we think just generally need to be reviewed and be done uh over the course of the year. So one thing could be as Jeff brought up um maybe it makes sense for planning commission to think about what livability means in the context of traffic because having thought through that in advance the next time this kind of situation comes up might give you uh some alignment and some guidance on that. We know uh that a lot of our zones um are not particularly specific or refined. Think about our commercial zones for example and having C1, C2, C3 um in the categories we currently have uh whenever applications come before

planning commission they are insufficiently discriminate so that we end up with a lot of u u caveats like we're going to see tonight right uh planning uh um fillment agreements And I would love for you as part of of your job to think through if do we have the right zoning categories? Um are those zoning categories sufficient for our needs? Um earlier in the meeting we brought up the general plan and that we're feeling like we're behind on the general plan. It needs a thorough review and Maline's very involved uh in this and has been reviewing it a lot. Uh we want all of your eyes on that. Um, so I guess I'm just coming to you asking uh on behalf of my role in city council to say we have a bunch of things that we want you to be proactive about. Um, and it comes down to things like making sure we have the right zones. Uh, making sure that the zones we do have match appropriately the infrastructure we have on those properties or if they don't that there are reasons for that. It comes down to thinking about how are we going to evaluate traffic? Comes down to u a really big list. And so in the time we have left, I thought maybe Meline, you could share a few things that are on your list. And then Jared and Gary, anything that's on your list? I just wanted to encourage you to say we're we think you're great. um you have run the gauntlet to get here and uh what that means is that we want the best out of you and your ideas and opinions u so that you can advise us as a city council. I I can't tell you that the city council will always take your advice um but we want it. Um, and so it's

possible that you will come to different conclusions than we will, but I do not want to be in the position where as city council we are making decisions in the absence of your council. Yeah. How do we develop so from my project manager background how do we develop the backlog of things to discuss so that we can just start picking them off and

so it can be done in various ways and be in the past and I this was a couple of years ago we actually went through as a planning commission had a premeating that was all dedicated to saying what are the things we're seeing what are our concerns what do we think we need this is the ancient list of what it was Um, so we probably do need there's going to be more things that come up that as you experience more things, you'll see more things. Um, anything that you're personally concerned, you're a citizen, you live here in ORM, those are things that can be brought up. We've talked about having finite time. That's one of the big issues. We have some things that are probably going to fall more into the reactive category that we have to do this year. The state passed external ADUs. We have to have a law in place by October 1st. There are a few other law changes this year that probably will also have to come through us, but that's going to be a big one that's going to take a lot of time. So, like the general plan, um, some of the ones that I was thinking of and that I flagged because we literally, one of them is the flag lots. Sorry, it did mean the pun, but um, repetitively we keep talking about the deep lot flag problem and do we need to make adjustments to it? That would be one of the things that I think needs sometimes. We've had some issues with double frontage as well recently. That's another code that could be looked at. Um commercial, if I were going to pick one zoning area to really break down and look at it's really commercial. We have three zones for the entire city that cover miles literally. And is that really the best use our land, best use of commercial designation? Is there better ways to parse it? Is there better ways to create buffers between? There's so much in the law. Our law hasn't really changed in 50 years. And maybe it's time to modernize that. Commercial would be one of the big

things I would look at. Um, we've talked about talked about the general plan and we've talked in the past here food trucks. Food trucks fall into this weird place because they are part business licensing and that is not where the code is currently is under business licensing but there's potentially land land use related issues with it as we can all see from places in ORM where people literally put out their their truck their truck and it stays there and what's the difference between that becoming a permanent building or a permanent fixture I mean if a snow contract has to apply for an application or your choir works have to apply for their 3-w week a year. Yeah.

You know, so there's so there's a lot that could be done like with food trucks. Um those were kind of the big ones, but like really we're going to have to spend time on detached ADUs this year and then maybe fixing some of these other but as far as identifying having further discussions I think it would be maybe in another month or two a really good discussion to be like okay what are some concerns that we're seeing some things that because clearly you didn't come on to this kind of goes to your conversation before how do we define livability we live here what do you want to do how would you feel if you lived in that neighborhood. Let's define it so it's not quite as subjective and kind of on the spur of the moment. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And but but again, all of those depend on where the piece of land, every piece of land is unique. It's one of the first things you learn about property. Like every piece is unique. Every neighborhood's going to be unique. It's going to have its challenges. So those are I can give you a more detailed list of but go ahead. Really? We have just like one. So quick question. Is there a way that we instead of can we have a repository where you put the things out that you think are important and then we can at least

start so it's not all within the 60 minutes of this work meeting we can look at them and react to them and respond to them obviously we want to have in face you know face to face discussions but at least know how big the general plan is what it covers do we build a skeleton then start putting the meat on you know how how does how's the best way to go about that so anyway just a just a Google sheet or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have the we have a Google we have a public space in Google Drive that we could do that in. We can do that in there to like dates like an order priority. There's kind of backlog and then there's like the what's has to happen by October 1st or whatever.

Well, I was also thinking as we start doing it more things are going to come into it. So, it's going to it's going to spider web into a whole bunch of good stuff. But, I I think we at least need to start the discussion again. And I'm assuming that we'll have input as well from staff because you live it and you know where the weaknesses are. How many times do I ask you? Okay, tell me what are you saying? I mean that seems like that should be open to not just end one process suggestion and then we need to adjourn but yeah

process suggestion is that maybe we start by brainstorming the list and that in a work session we dedicate the work session to prioritizing that list and prioritizing it based on how easy it's going to be to do and how much impact it's going to have on the community so that we're not just going down the list random randomly, but but we're doing it very thoughtfully in terms of what your highest priorities are and we can contribute as a city council and as staff to what we think our priorities with the ROI. Yeah. And it's going to it is going to be very amorphous because it's going to be and a lot about what's coming for us too.

So, okay, we will adjourn. We have like a minute before our regular lesson. I made her last. I like our meeting. Everybody.

Yes, I was here last week. Nice to meet you. Oh, great. Nice to meet you. Uh, he is 22. Hit in the picture. Yeah, that's my that's my son. That's true story on a like observe your dad at work day and like what do you think? I'd rather cut with fish every day than do this. So now I know I don't want to be planner.

Yes. Okay, we'll call the ORM city planning commission meeting to order at 5:33 p.m. on April 15, 2026 in the ORM city council chambers. We'd like to welcome the mayor and thank her for attending our meeting tonight. And we will begin with an invocation by Britain.

Our father in heaven before you this evening to thank you for the opportunity we have to gather here to uh collect our minds and our thoughts and actions into the development of Warm City and uh as well as its preservation and the beauty that it is. We thank you for the residents who support us and to um voice their opinions and and make their their minds known. Will you please bless us with a spirit of camaraderity and community to be able to do what's best for the city and its people? These things we ask and do so in the name of thy son Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you. We will start with our consent items which is item 3.1 which is approval of the meeting minutes from March 18th, 2026 and April 1st, 2026 planning commission meeting. But we have not seen them yet.

Oh jeez. So, we are going to have to continue them again to the next meeting. Forward them to the next. So, if we could have a motion to continue item 3.1, that would be appreciated. Motion that we continue item 3.1. Okay. Do I have a second? I second. Carl did. Okay. So, Britain moved and Carl seconded that we continue item 3.1 to the next meeting. Okay. Carl, I I my I I I I I Okay.

Okay, that item is continued to the next meeting. Thank you. Um we have no item four, so we'll move on to item five, which is a continuation of a public hearing from April 1st, which is the um reszone of 355 West University. It's a request to amend article 22-5-3A in the zoning map of the city of ORM by changing the zone to the property located generally at 355 West University Parkway from R8 single family residential to C2 commercial approximately 5.93 acres. Jared,

thank you. Um, as you'll recall from the previous um from the public hearing on April 1st, uh, this was continued and the applicants I'm going to I'm going to run through the slides just for the record. So, if anyone tuning in or or here wasn't around before, I'll I'll go through these fairly quickly and you can ask any questions and we'll note the development agreement was part of the discussion last time. Uh Co West put together a proposed uh draft development agreement. We included that and we can go over the uh uses real quickly in a slide here in just a moment. It is 5.93 acres. Uh this is the old water conservancy district property. It's currently in use for non-residential purposes. It is zoned R8. The request is to C2. Um it is um in the regional commercial land use category and our general plan. Again, the zoning is R8. Um and the request for C2 is to develop a site plan that will allow some different commercial tenants to use the to use the site. Their intention is to orient those toward University Parkway where the heaviest traffic is and the rest would become parking for those uses and then also for the office building which would remain uh in their current plans. Um so there's a bunch of additional parking about 12,200 ft of additional um building shown here, but again uh a site plan would not be part of the the application because it is for a C2 zone, standard C2 zone. The development agreement that was proposed, these are the elevations that they've showed um that could be workable. The development agreement that they proposed would would further limit the uses that are allowed in the C2 zone by not allowing any of these others, trailers, taxi cabs, water pressure, sewage control. Uh most importantly and most of concern at the at the neighborhood meeting, it appears from the minutes was motor vehicle sales and gas stations. anything to do with with cars, they would uh be willing to forego those auto and truck rentals, wash uh automobile washes. Um and then

some of these others that are um that generate more uses late at night and generate more traffic and noise. Uh they they willing to pull those out as well. Ropes, courses, uh different amusements, recreations, things. Any questions about the the list there in the development agreement? That is all the development agreement does. It does not tie them to a site plan. so they could still go forward um looking for tenants. That was kind of their intent was to be able to continue doing that. And that is our presentation for the night. Happy to answer any questions. Okay.

Thank you. Any questions for staff? Would the applicant like to come forward and add to this pretty much a continuation from last time just with the specific information we were looking for? Um okay. So we can as a reminder it is a continuation of the public hearing. So you should open open and close it. Okay. I thought we had the public hearing last time and you did, but continuing the public hearing usually means that you also continue that. Usually open it up again if if you needed to.

Okay, we can open for public comment. So, I guess we'll do that. We'll go ahead and open for public comment. And since nobody's here, we will close the public comment. Thank you, Emma. Um Carl Mike is appropriate for the applicant to have another chance to talk about I asked her she Okay, great. Awesome. Unless I misinterpret your No, we're good. They're good. Questions. Yeah. So, okay. So either we can further discuss the development agreement or if we feel the development agreement is sufficient we can just

Mike the the only thing that I was thinking of is specifically what are you looking to put in? I mean what what specific businesses are you looking to fill the space? Yeah, the businesses we've been talking to right now we um are pretty far along with a 24-hour emergency vet. um they would be looking at the uh eastern building 5,000 square feet um just fully occupied by themselves and then we've had a couple um restaurants that are interested in the couple other buildings but primarily service and food users. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Yes. Any other questions? Uh

are we open to adding um uh tattoo facilities to that list? Yeah, that's fine. Sorry, I thought that was in there. But yeah, we're fine to add tattoos on that.

Jared, I thought it was too. I might have I might have missed it in the retyping, but I'll I'll check. But if if you make that note now and she's fine with it, it too, we'll make sure that it's included if it moves on to the council. It it seemed like it was in the notes, the agenda. Yeah, I might have I might have not typed it somehow. Yeah, I I I have the development agreement right here. It looks like it's not on here, but that's fine to add that in. Okay, so in the motion, we probably need to state that addition.

Okay, thank you.

Any other comments? Okay, then either discussion if anyone has something to talk about or we can move to motion. Okay, motion going. Uh, I'll motion that the Warren Planning Commission forward recommendation of approval to the city council at the request to amend article 22.2253A 2253A and the zoning map of the city of War by changing the zone of the property located generally at 355 West University Parkway from R8 single family residential to C2 commercial approximately 5.93 acres in conjunction with the proposed development agreement with the amendment of adding the exclusion of tattoo facilities to the development agreement.

Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Sus move and Britain seconded that we forward a recommendation of approval to the city council and with the addition of tattoo parlors being added to the list of exclusions. Okay. Carl I I I I I Okay. Item 5.1 passes. Do we have anything?

Yes. I as uh you've come in, you've probably noticed the parking lot's a little more open out there now and uh we uh got rid of some of the weeds and there's grass now and things are moving along. I just wanted to make you aware of put on your calendar uh on May 23rd will be the dedication for the Gold Star Memorial uh monument and plaza. It's actually uh out there now. It's under wraps and uh being protected until the ribbon cutting. That would be uh May 23rd at 7. And also to remind you, it would be a uh a great opportunity to be a part of this uh to donate. Just so that you know, city staff collectively, not just in uh community development, but throughout the city, have contributed over $50,000 to the Gold Star uh memorial that's out there. So, it'll be a really uh great addition to uh to city hall and the grounds when it's done. So be aware of that and would love to have you come to that dedication if you can.

Okay. And to contribute if you can. Uh 7 7 p.m. 7 p.m. Yes. On May 23rd. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. If there isn't any further business, can we have a motion to adjurnn? Motion that we adjourn. Okay. Can I have a second? I'll second it. I think Jeff or Carl, who should I give it to Carl? Okay, I'll give it to Carl. Britain moved and Carl seconded that we adjourn. Britain, I I I I Okay, we are adjourned at 5:44 p.m. Thank you. Thanks everybody. No, thank you Jared.