Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

on mics. Okay, perfect. So, we're ready to go. We're going to call this meeting to order at whatever time. It's 4:32 per my watch. So, let's get going to do it without doing stuff. Half a second. Gary, start talking. Don't forget to send Britain the uh the link when you have a moment. Britain's had all this training they do. No, actually it wasn't air for slick. This is a new one. This one's a new training. The TV required before they can. Yes, I know. That's what we're really worried about.

There it is. Well, Yeah, you're getting there. Well, we just plug that HDMI and it goes right. HDMI is usually what I am cast with because I know how to that one.

Probably it's just a display of accelerating. So, do you have a USBC port on that? got another adapter if you want to try another HM. And Grace just walked in. She's also one of the one of the associate. What's your actual title? Associate planner at Well, we're just we're duplicating.

There it is.

Okay. I am so sorry about this. We'll we'll have the meetings ready to go when they're supposed to go. Okay. So, planning commission, uh, welcome. And, uh, now the big question is now what? So, what we're going to talk about, there's some legal requirements for planning commission, some state law things that need to be done before you can act as a planning commission member. So, we're going to go through all of those things to make sure um you're ready and and function tonight as a planning commission member. Uh those who are existing on the uh planning commission, they've already done it. So, one of the big questions is uh what is the planning commission? So, planning commission is required by state law. Uh it's an appointed body. You are a recommener of legislation. You recommend to the municipal council what legislation should be. You are a final decision maker on administrative items and we'll get into that more where when the decision you make is the final decision. It can be appealed that you make the decision and uh it is intended to be made up of citizen planners, people from uh the community to look at these things and deal with them. uh all the items that come to you. Uh typically planning commission members come from a wide variety of groups and organizations and it might be helpful well the one of

the most important things is you're a collective body. You work as a collaborative body to make recommendations and make uh decisions. Now, one of the things that comes up and before I get into this more, if you have any questions, feel free to just jump in and ask them, this is designed to be interactive. Uh, it's also helpful to talk about what planning commission is not because there's often a lot of misconception people have about what a planning commission is. So, you're not an elected body. Though you were approved by the council, you you are not elected and you are not a policy maker for the city. The policymaking body for the city is the municipal council. Uh you don't represent a constituency. So you weren't elected. You don't have a constituency. you don't need to worry about reelection and so um your role is not to represent a specific point of view. Now, we all have points of view and it's important that you bring those points of view with you as you come and discuss because somebody will have different information or different ideas than you do. And so those are important, but you're not here as a representative, an elected official of a constituency to implement your constituency's uh policy. Um, and commissioners don't have individual

authority. The authority that you have is limited to one vote on the planning commission. And we don't talk specifically about uh [clears throat] voting in here, but for us to have a meeting, we have to have a quorum. And legally, a quorum is four members. So there's seven of you. As long as four are here, we have a quorum and we can move forward and do things. It takes a minimum of four votes by planning commissioners to do something. If there's a motion to have the motion pass, it will take a a minimum of four votes to approve that motion. So, uh, as an individual, you don't have unique authority. It's similar to the municipal council. Municipal council members don't necessarily have authority in and of themselves. They work as a council collectively together. And it's a majority vote of the council determines the direction or policy. Now, the mayor is a little different. the mayor has some statutory authority and regulations that apply to that position that they can do certain things. Um, but they're somewhat limited.

I noticed in the last minutes that there was an absent somebody abstained. Yes. And that went under the quorum and so they couldn't they had to table that till the next time. But so I'm assuming that's the case. If you don't have Yeah. Even though there may be four people in the room, may not be four votes, right?

Yeah. If there are four people in the room and four do not vote for something, the planning commission, it's as if you did not take any action and it just fails. Just like somebody can make a motion and it fails because there's not a second to the motion. So in a situation like that, it's literally there's no action taken by the planning commission. Okay. Any other No, that was just that just conservation.

Okay. So, local land use uh planning authority and we're going to talk about it in the judicial legislative executive uh context similar uh I should have you teach this because political science here uh and feel free to correct me at any time [laughter] but the authority under which we operate here uh is there are certain roles similar to uh like our federal government or state government where we have a strong executive and we have legislature and we have a judiciary. Here we have a form of government where we don't have a strong mayor form. Here the mayor is a part of the council and and is in some respects you can think of it as the chair of the council and so the council will have some executive functions and some legislative functions but for us in the land use planning context. Uh we also as planning commission will have some executive and administrative uh uh or legislative functions and we'll get into those and judiciary not really. Sometimes we call it quasi judiciary where you might have some things come up but that's fairly rare. But just kind of keep that, you know, this is like civics 101, you know, do you remember I'm a bill, I'm a bill, you know, all that uh that type of thing. So it's this separation of powers and with each uh area of power comes things that can happen. And the two main things we're going to worry about are legislative

issues and the executive or administrative issues. Okay. And then the judicial uh we don't really need to worry about that. We have an appeals process. Any decision that government on this level makes whether it's planning commission staff or the council, there's an avenue to appeal that decision. Um so any decision you make on an administrative item can be appealed. uh your legislative recommendations. We'll talk more about that. Uh in a sense, they're not appeal. They just go to the council and the council will make the decision and appeal and then an appeal can go from there. Okay. So local land use uh number one in our system of government is the federal constitution that trumps everything. Okay. Then we have federal statutes. Federal statutes can trump state law and local law and they often do. Uh we have federal court decisions. We have a federal administrative rules. We have the state constitution. We have state statutes. We have state court decisions, state administrative rules, and we have local land use. So, there's a lot of other law that impacts what you can and cannot do. Okay. So, the planning authority, your authority comes from the land use development management act and that's

found in the state law at uh if you ever wanted to get on, you can find it here. It's found in uh title 10 chapter 20 of the state code and it lays out uh the land use authority that has been delegated to cities because in Utah cities are political subdivisions of the state and so the state can come in and preempt the city in what they're doing and pass laws that tell us no you can't do this action. We'll talk here in a minute about some of those things. So, as uh political subdivisions, we've been received this uh grant of authority or or this uh enabling statute that gives us the ability to regulate land use here in the city. And so, you are a part of that land use regula regulatory scheme. And then you'll probably hear me use the word scheme. I don't mean it in a bad sense at all. And it's kind of a system. I always forget and kind of start talking uh as an attorney. I kind of talk in jargon sometimes and people go, "What kind of scheme schemes are you guys doing here?" And it's, you know, not don't worry, not that that kind. Uh so state law will prevail in areas that uh over our local control and here are some examples. So moderate income housing state law tells us what we have to do to a not completely but a large extent on moderate income housing accessory dwelling units. state law has presumpted

some of our for some [clears throat] things and we have to follow that uh state law we've had one of the the things that will come before you before too long are design regulations uh in a sense dealing with single family homes how big can they be how close you know uh things like that the zoning code describes in essence the box in which you can build your home. Uh we had somebody recently build the box and maximize everything literally. [laughter]

And and but state law has circumscribed some of the regulations we can put on design standards. So we can uh enact laws but we just got to be careful how we do it not to violate a state regulation, state statute on it. Okay. Uh let's see. Uh so the planning commission is a creature that's been created by state authority and and this is the site where you can find in state law and we have materials for you. Um this recently changed used to be 10 9a they reumbered everything and moved stuff around and I haven't checked the stuff yet to see if we've updated it. I know all the existing planning commission members have the old code references and and I don't know if we did it for these new ones because it it happened fairly recently. Uh and so it'll set out uh the creation and your uh your powers and duties and we have to create a planning commission as a city. This is a requirement and uh we can set out the number of people we have. We have seven on our uh planning commission. Not only do we have seven, but our seven if we only have a quorum is four. If we have only four, all four have to vote affirmatively for something for it to pass or no actions taken. Other communities have different rules. Uh some communities have nine members. Some communities say, "Oh, it's a majority of the quorum. If all you have is four, then a majority of four wins." So it

[clears throat] there's a lot of things that we can do. How we fill a vacancy um your kind of rules and order uh and how you deal with public meetings and things like that. we can we can set our own rules on on those types of things. Um now under the uh state rules it is a requirement for planning commission to make a recommendation for a the general plan or amendments to the general plan. So, we currently have a general plan, but we're going through the process of amending it before that can go to the uh city council to change the general plan. We need a recommendation from the planning commission. Also, just land use regulations. So, we have not just our general plan, which is a policy direction statement, but we have actual ordinances. The general plan is kind of a highlevel policy document that we think we want to grow in this way. This is the type of things we're looking at in our community, but currently they do not have the force of law in our city. But our land use code and our land use regulations do. So when we amend a land use regulation like uh we have a regulation that says a residential home can only be 35 feet tall in a zone. If we wanted to change that to 34 ft that regulation before it became law and impacted people the council would have to approve that and you would need to make a recommendation to the council on whether to do that. Okay. Um,

state law also require requires that we have uh a land use authority to hear and act on all land use applications and it doesn't have to be the same body. So on a lot of things you are the land use authority to act on some things staff is in staff acts and then there's an appeal authority. You are not the appeal authority for yourselves. The currently the board of adjustment is. And so your appeals would go there. Um [clears throat]

uh again just some uh that the [clears throat] you have to make a recommendation for your application process. So when somebody comes in, what information is required of them? What you know things along those lines uh uh need to be in that application process that we put into code. You make recommendations on those things. Okay. And uh let's see uh let's go on to this. Okay. Uh now under the state law before you make a recommendation to the council, the legislative body on a legislative item, it requires you to hold a public hearing. So your all your meetings are public meetings, but not everything you do. In other words, the public can see it, know about it, watch it on YouTube if they want. It's being streamed right now. But not every action you take requires a public hearing. And a public hearing is where you open it up and anybody who's here at the meeting uh or if we work it out electronically has the right to make a comment about the item before you. And so you have to allow public comment in that public hearing before you make a recommendation. There are some decisions you make that do not require a public hearing and we put those on our agendas. So if you get an agenda from us and you

look at it, anything that's on the consent agenda does not require a public hearing. A really good example of that is state law and our code doesn't require us to hold a public hearing on whether to approve the minutes from the last meeting. That's up to you guys. You know, you look at that, read the minutes. Do they accurately reflect uh what we uh talked about, things like that. Okay. Uh now, the state law says that the legislative body or the city council can consider planning commission's failure to make a timely recommendation as a negative recommendation. And the reason for that is is that if we can't get quorums or something needs to go to uh planning commission or heaven forbid there's a circumstance in which people like oh we don't like this uh we're not going to show up so we don't have a quorum or something that it doesn't stall everything. At some point the council can say, "Okay, we just, you know, we we can't for whatever reason, we're not we don't have enough people for a quorum or uh we don't have we're not going to have a meeting and we had that in January. We didn't hold any planning commission meetings in January because we didn't have enough for a quorum. So, um we couldn't hold a meeting. If there had been a legislative recommendation that they really needed, they could have considered that as a negative recommendation. Okay. So, that's some of the state law requirements, but the city can do things also. And and the the authority that the city gives you is the authority under state statute

uh plus those things delegated to you by the city council. and um so that the council can have you go ahead and get in dig into an item and look at it even if it's not going to result in a public hearing to the city council. Okay. So, we're going to talk this. So, while we're going through this, we have dinner for you. They're going to open up this door. Feel free to get your dinner and we'll just keep going through this while you eat because uh at 5:30 this meeting will end and we'll uh we'll uh go into the next meeting. And I'm on slide 14 of 54 [laughter] cuz we're throwing in a whole bunch of training that needs to happen before you get going. I'm I typically don't like to do this but this is one of those circumstances. Okay. So, all these hats come up. You know, in life, we all wear different hats and do different things. And so, we're going to talk about the two main roles and function that you have as a planning commission. And we're going to talk about this road. And one side is the legislative recommendations and the other side is your administrative duties. So, when we're talking about legislative, we're going to put a construction hat, a hard hat up here. Because when you're acting at a legislative capacity, what you are doing is making a recommendation to the city council about what the law should be. What [clears throat] uh you're creating the law with that. Now, on the administrative side, we have a traffic

cop because your role there is really yes or no. Does this comply with our code and ordinances? The law is already set. We're not determining what the law should be. The law is set and in place. We're merely uh applying the law to the facts in front of us and making a determination. Yes or no? This application complies with law. Okay. So, administrative, here's some some things. You're the final decision maker on subdivision plans, project plans, conditional use permits, some of those things that will come to you. And we don't have time to tonight to dive into what all of these things are. as we go along uh we'll we'll give you more training uh on these types of things but you are the final decision maker. So when it comes to you if you approve it unless somebody who's opposed to it appeals it to the authority the decision stands and it is the decision of the city. If you deny it it's the decision of the city unless somebody were to appeal it. So you're the final decision maker in that. Under c certain circumstances, staff is the final decision maker. And some of these final decisions do not require a public hearing. Now, state law requires some public hearings. The city code requires more public hearings than state law requires. And [clears throat] just kind of an FYI, sometimes state law require or city code requires a public hearing on an administrative item. And that can be difficult because

when we uh have a public hearing on an administrative item, often time the public who come in and comment on that administrative item may not like it. But whether you like it or not is a different matter. We'll get into that a little more. So, uh, like I noticed on some of these they've had neighborhood meetings. Do those count or are those just informational?

Informationational. Those that's a requirement before the a applicant u makes an application for say a reszone. They our code requires them to go out and hold a neighborhood meeting. So, the city actually has a property. We're going we're proposing a reszone on it. This will be coming to you in the near future. We held a neighborhood meeting. We sent out the notices just like everybody else and held a meeting. Okay. So, now on legislative items, here are things. Uh you're not the defi final decision maker. You act in this advisory capacity and you give your advice and a recommendation. to the council on like zoning map amendments, text amendments to uh the the code, the general plan and and some other items and we'll help you know what those are and when they are. So now back to the administrative side, what discretion do you have to make a determination on administrative? What kind of leeway do you have in analy in in in saying yes or no? Well, it's very narrow. You don't have much discretion at all. You can't uh these are kind of legal terms of art here. Uh you can't be arbitrary, capriccious, or illegal. Uh no public clamor or in other words, public clamor doesn't play a role in that. We're going to talk about public clamor here in a minute. Uh and so it's this your decision has to be whether you say yay or nay has to be supported by substantial evidence in the record before you and it's evidence more than just a sentintella. A lot of this language comes from case law

[clears throat]

uh that we have out there and uh and that a reasonable mind would accept is adequate to support your con Okay. And so, uh, it's based on, um, uh, what does the code say? Does this comply with the code? All right. Uh, and your answer usually is yes or no. Or sometimes you continue it because you want more information. Maybe you don't feel you have enough information to be able to say yes or no. But if you continue administrative item, it should be continued for a specific purpose. Okay, we're continuing it. Why is that? What specific piece of information or thing do we need for you to be able to determine yes or no? J. So, administrative public clamor uh people come in and they're really mad. Uh you know, and sometimes, you know, jokingly we say we ought to make t-shirts. Uh you know, people come in, they're really mad at about administrative item. And public clamor though under state law is you know citizen opposition is a consideration which must be weighed but cannot be the sole basis for the decision to deny an application. To deny the application you have to have a reason found within the code and the statute applying to it. Now legislative, let's talk about your uh discretion in legislative. It's very wide. It's fairly debatable. It's public sentiments extremely

important. uh kind of a uh there's from this Smith investment uh case if an ordinance could promote the general welfare even if it's reasonably debatable that it is in the interest of the general welfare we will uphold it. There's even case law where judges have said, you know, I don't know that I'd vote this way in essence, but yeah, I could see a reasonable person saying, "Yeah, we should do this." And so now in sometimes people coming in the same thing and we're coming in talking about what should the ordinance be. This they're not uh public clamor. our friends and neighbors giving us legislative input. But if it's administrative that they disagree with the code, were you waving a crystal? I'm sorry. I just knew she was here because she had

um so so public input, public sentiment is extremely important in legislative items and administrative items, it is important, but what they're saying should be if they're talking in opposition to something, it should be linked to a legal evidence-based reason why under our code we can say no. Okay. So legislative you know it's you make this recommendation it goes to the council and planning commission. You'll hold a hearing and you have all these people trying to scale the mountain giving you their perspective from where they are and you take that and you weigh it and then planning commission will make a recommendation to the council. And when the council takes it, now the council, the planning commission is just [clears throat] another one of those perspectives and not not just another one, but an extremely important one that we would hope they would take into consideration just like it's not the only one, but it's an extremely important one that we think he would take into consideration. Not that you need to follow our recommendation on just like the council wouldn't need to follow your recommendation on something. Now administrative, we're coming over here and talking about kind of the applicant's legal expectations. Kind of we talked about the discretion you have to act. Now we're going to talk about the legal parameters they have with it. So the legal expectation is they have a vested right. If they've made an application and the application complies with our law, they're they're and think of it in this

sense that they make an application. When they make that application, our rules and laws kind of freeze in place and they judge that application against the rules and laws that existed when they made that application. And their legal expectation is they have a vested right. In other words, it is there applicant have to grant it if it com complies with those. There's a couple of exceptions that are extremely rare. One is if we have pending legislation going on. Another one would there's a counterveailing public interest. That's an extremely high burden under the western equities line of cases. Uh so a land use authority when you're looking at it one of their expectations in the legal framework is you apply the plain language to of the ordinance to their application. And there's case law that says if you can interpret your code to approve the application and you could uh interpret the code reasonably to disapprove the application. Tie goes to the applicant because zoning is the deriggation of your common law right to do what you will with your property. It's kind of one of the foundational. So if if it can reasonably be interpreted that under the plain normal reading that we that they can do it but a tortured convoluted reasoning we could turn them down. We're not going to survive a legal challenge over that. Okay. So now legislative what's their legal expectation? It's kind of a trick question. They have no legal

expectation. They have no vested right. they what they have is the right to the laws that exist today to develop their property. So an applicant that wants to come in and reszone their property, they have no right to have that reszone contrary to what they will try and tell you when they stand before you all.

Yes. Yeah. And and and I would tell you that as planning commission in the council when somebody comes in and it's the legislative context and they want to change the general plan, they want to change the reason, they would change a text amendment, our code exists and they can do with their property what they will under the uh existing code as it exists today. if they want to change that code, that's a legislative thing. And I would tell you that the applicant bears the burden to convince you that that's in the best interest of the city. You know, and what that means that, you know, uh, best interest could be in the best interest of the neighborhood, could be in the best economic interest of the community, could be in the best interest of the fiscal uh status of the city, but they have no legal right or expectation with it. So, now let's jump back to administrative. The policy question really is uh kind of a trick question here. It's there is really no policy in administrative. It what are the ordinance requirements and does this application comply? You may hate the app application but if it has you know the right setbacks and people are saying we hate the setbacks but the law allows those setbacks. The question is does it comply or does it not? So, uh, municipal zoning authorities are bound by the terms and standards of the applicable zoning or and are not at liberty to make land use decisions and derrigation thereof. So, if we don't

like our code, if there if you see something in your our code you do not like, the remedy is let's take it to the council, make a recommendation to change it, and let's change the law. I can't tell you. I was joking with some people today that I try never to read our code because every time I do, I find something I don't like and want to change,

you know, and so if we see something we don't like, that's what we need to do because the courts will hold us to our law. Okay. So the policy question in a legislative context is really broad broad discretion. What should the property be resold? Where's this reszoning coming in? Do we want to give up this industrial land and make it agriculture? What you know what about this? You know how will this impact the community? What kind of impact does it have on our sewer system, our utilities? What will this mean for police and fire? What about parks? What about traffic? You know, those are important questions to be asked and thought about and debated and then recommended to the council. What should the law be? How do we want to look? How do we want it to grow? Those those types of things. So, now back to administrative appeals or adjustment district court. Uh legislative. Uh it's a recommendation goes to the council. So it's not really an appeal. You make a recommendation. People can sue municipal council for uh not granting a legislative item. Uh the the last time I actually looked into this issue a few years ago, uh there had been no case in Utah where uh the legislative discretion of the municipal council been overturned on a legislative. As long as you have a reasonably debatable discussion, people can disagree. You know, even if a lot of people disagree, is it still reasonably

debatable? [clears throat] You know, and councils have to weigh in uh difficult priorities that are if you ask people, each one of them's a number one, but you've got to weigh those some somehow. And planning commission does the same thing. And so in your recommendations to the council, I would suggest, you know, be careful. Don't think that you have to be unanimous unless you are because sometimes having uh a complicated issue and and it being nuanced is very helpful because things often are not that simple. Okay, any questions so far? We only have 45 more to go. So,

so I would be eating if I were you because when we leave here, uh, if you don't eat now, you will, uh, miss your opportunity. It's your opportunity. We'll keep your food and I'll give it away to staff. How long should we expect for the next meeting? It can vary. This meeting is always going shows up, public comment, and bunch of other things. How many things are on the agenda? on a very controversial reason. What's the most controversial reason we've had recently? Life part.

Yeah. You know, you could have, you know, 40 50 people and every single one of them want to talk and, you know, two and and we can regulate uh how much time we will give to an item. It doesn't have to be anybody can talk. [clears throat] Everybody can talk for as long as they want and we're here till two in the morning and I think our B don't our byl say you can't do anything after 11

and we can't do anything after 11. I we haven't had a meeting go that late in a long time but I there was a time I can remember more than one meeting. Uh I think Jared got me you were there till 1, right? There till 1. I've been there till after midnight at a meeting that started at 5. Well, plus not very often most I mean on the whole most of our meetings are about a half hour to an hour usually safely within that but depending upon what's on there and how controversial. Thank you. One other question uh who sets our agenda?

That's a good question. Um we do in cooperation with the chair. Uh we meaning staff staff.

What we what we do like the administrative items, we'll go ahead and schedule them because often they're on deadlines and we have to get things processed within [clears throat] a certain amount of time or it could be uh a difficult issue for us. So the administrative items will do that. When an applicant makes like a reszone request, that's kind of a normal routine. you know, we'll work with the chair and vice chair and let them know some things are going on. Uh we need to get uh you new members added if you're interested into the neighborhood meeting list so that anytime though somebody has not made an application, they get a not you get uh then they hold a neighborhood meeting, you'll get an a mailed notification that'll go to you and you're like, "Oh, okay. This is coming up." So, these all are these all administrative items today. These are all administrative.

That's I was going to bring that up that they're all administrative. Some of these probably would have ended up on the consent agenda item, but because we're so many new people, we wanted to talk through a couple of these other ones. Thank you. Um, but a lot of the administrative stuff has moved to the consent agenda because whole going through all the steps for everyone wasn't necessarily necessary to just say, "Okay, you're we're happy you're moving your pl your boundary 3 ft to the left into your neighbor's yard." So

okay thank you very that's a great question. So as you can see in this when it comes to administrative items discretion is very narrow. Personally, I would rather have planning commission spend the majority, the vast majority of its time on legislative issues where you're making those recommendations about how forum should change, what should happen, uh what the law should be, what the general plan should say. Because I [clears throat] gave this training years ago in another city I worked in and they uh had a neighborhood chair program and the neighborhood chair would come in and I gave this discussion and she literally started to cry in the meeting. I said, "What's wrong?" She goes, "I've been a neighborhood chair for 15 years, and I just realized through this training, I was wasting my time calling you guys up and her ringing you about administrative items I didn't like. I should have taken all that energy and put it into the legislative recommendations to the council that get things changed." And I said, "Yeah, because we have very narrow discretion when it's an administrative item, but when it's a legislative, that's where you can really make, you know, a a big change. So, [clears throat] that's pretty brief, but we got more stuff going on. We're going to be ending here soon." That that's kind of your your powers and duties and the big legislative, administrative. We've covered the bare minimum that we need to do here. I can go on. We've got

That clock's a little fast. You could take up to seven more minutes. Okay. Well, what would you What's next? Well, uh boy, we got a lot of stuff. We've got uh conflict of interest stuff that we do. Okay, we can do that another time. Uh kind of Robert's rules of order. Probably want to talk about how we do motion and we do motions and stuff like that. ignore all this. Don't take anything over $50 and when in doubt

declare some just I'll say this, some conflicts are legally prohibited. Just can't do it. The vast majority of conflicts are not. You just need to disclose the conflict. So when in doubt, just bring it up. Okay. Uh, export communication. We'll zip through that. The other thing, don't congregate. More of us. No more than three people at a time can talk about something that's before us. That's probably a good point that we need to watch our numbers and talking about things that are directly involving the planning commission.

Open meetings. Uh, it applies to planning commission. Um, well, yeah. be be careful if you all meet at wedding reception. That's not a meeting. Don't worry about it. But don't start talking about items. And we'll go over more training for open meetings. Uh we'll have to do that. So, can we text each other about things, but we can one-on-one. We can have discussions like small groups can and we probably should. If you have questions, if you have doubts, I'm we can change exchange numbers. I'm happy. Everyone's probably happy.

Just talk about Gary. But yes, but it it it's the being together so that we don't violate public meeting rules and open meetings. When you have four people, you're a quorum. So, yes.

Okay. So, uh we talked about meetings. So, we're going to come in um let's see. Okay. Let's talk about the meetings, the actual meetings that we have. So, we don't start till we have a quorum. And then sometimes, even if we have a quorum, we don't start because we have to have it uh uh recorded and going and stuff like that. And we weren't ready to go on time, so we had to wait. Um, and if we're in there, it'll be the same thing. The chair, uh, Meline's the chair. Everybody knows Meline. Miss Did you call her Miss Meline? It's like what are you a dance teacher? [laughter] Gymnastics agenda. She said, "Hi, M. I'm sorry." Okay. [clears throat] We loo Robert's rules of order and we can adopt reasonable rules. We have rules that we have adopted. We have a procedure when we go into the meeting. The the chair will call the meeting over. We'll give the time and date. look where we're at. The members present will read the item into the record, clarifies any actions. Um, it's an opportunity for you on that item to declare a conflict. If you do declare a conflict that you think is a conflict, like it's, you know, this is my next door neighbor and I I just can't be on this one. I I want to abstain from this. If you're going to abstain, you really should let us know you think you have a conflict, whatever it is, and then leave the dis and frankly leave leave the room for that item.

Um, you know, like if I'm a planning commissioner member and I'm it's uh I'm doing a reszone in front of you and I could do that because I live in the community and I have property and I happen to be on the planning commission. I can develop my property too, but it would be a conflict for me to do it. It's not good if I were to get off the stand and then sit on the front row, stare down and do a staredown with everybody. So, if there is a conflict and if you have any questions on a conflict, feel free to give me a call and we'll talk through it. Very rarely, I did have a planning commission member once something uh a project came up. He was an engineer. uh his project was going through his engineer frankly wasn't doing a good job for him. I can't remember now either they got turned down or continued. This planning commission member after that item in the meeting got up ran out of the hall after the guy handed in this guard and said, "You really need some help on this. Give me a call and and I can help you." president. So he had a uh discussion about conflicts of interest and and uh he he decided to resign from the planning commission. Uh so you take those conflicts that we come in how it really happens well staff will give a presentation uh and then then often the applicant will uh talk then it'll be public comment not always required because sometimes a public hearing is not required on the item and then uh you close presentations typically I need to adjust this If uh the applicant goes first, then in public comment, it's a good form to allow the applicant to come up and and uh be able to make comments or answer the questions that

were

respond to the issues that were done. Then it's closed. Then it's planning commission discussion. And as planning commission, the sta uh the chair will lead the discussion and feel free to ask clarifying questions of staff or the applicant or something that came up from the public and then at some point the chair will ask for a motion. So when we're asking for a motion, it is you'll have a main motion. I move that we recommend to the municipal council that uh Gary gets a raise. That's my favorite motion I've ever ever heard made. Um, but if nobody seconds it, it dies. And then at some point, Matteline go that motion fails for lack of a second. Do I have another motion? And the So if there's a second, the chair would say, okay, it's been moved and seconded that we recommend to the municipal council that Gary gets a raise. I'm going to be on this one all night. [laughter] Uh, and then the chair can open it up to debate. So, debate the to debate the specific items and then you can eventually call the question. You have secondary motions like in the middle of it to help dispose of the matter like, oh, I have a substitute motion or let's limit debate or let's have a continuence. We need more. We can interrupt with that.

These happen. They do occasionally happen. It's fairly rare. If we hit one of those moments, we'll walk through it. Don't need to memorize it right the second. Exactly how to deal with those.

Last slide. I'll I'll jump through stuff. Keep this in mind. This is a legal standard. This is something I just show to everybody as we're going through a meeting. Think about this. If somebody from off the street came in and were sitting there watching our meeting and they're disinterested, they don't have a dog in the fight and they're not impacted. They're just watching it and observing the process and what was going on. Would they believe that they were treated fairly and according to law? We try to keep that idea of fairness uh going was planning commission following the law were people being treated fairly and we'll try and keep you on track for the bare minimum of the law. That's kind of our responsibility to do. But keep in mind this other idea of you know sometimes could you cut off debate? Yeah, you can cut off debate or no more talking on it. We're we're going to move forward. Just ask yourself, if we do that, are people going to feel like they were treated fairly?

Okay, that's it. No time for questions, unless it relates to my race. Yeah. And I want to add one more thing. We haven't talked about the quorum. Um, it goes along with fairness. how we it's a little less formal in here, but when we're up on the dis how we behave up there, if we're all sitting on our phones, if we're all looking bored, those things can also impact how people view and what we're doing. And so I just ask keep in mind, let's maintain professionalism. Let's stay off our phones. Let's focus on what we're doing and maintainability. I I think that's one of the big things is that we're here to work with the public. That one starts.

So I will adjourn this meeting and then we will reconvene in there in a couple minutes. It's about time. Next meeting.

They can do this with

this. It doesn't doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. So, and that's all it is. Push the button right in front.

Did you send him or else you scripture? Yeah. Yes. Stan Danny. Good night. Right. Oh, thanks. Down.

self introduction. All right, we will go ahead and call the ORM city planning commission meeting to order at 5:38 p.m. on March 4th, 2026 in the ORM city council chambers. Uh before we get started, I just want to um acknowledge the change over in commissioners and um extend I don't know why I'm getting a little like emotional, but uh thank you to Ha Sakar, Jerry Chrisman, and Rod Ericson for their services on the planning commission. They've been invaluable in their contribution of time and and knowledge to what we do here. And then and on the same note, I'd like to welcome Susan Matson, Darren Hawkins, and Carol I almost said it, Carl Radmol to the planning commission. And we look forward to working with them and having them here. And we'll begin with an invocation by Mike. Our Father in heaven, we come before you this day with a grateful heart. We thank you for this wonderful nation that we live in, this beautiful city. Uh we recognize the many blessings we've been given in this land. We ask that you be with us, be with our troops, be with our nation, and guide us that we might live humbly and righteously under thee. We ask you to guide our hand in our decisions this day. And we say these things humbly in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ. Amen. We'll begin with uh our consent agenda

items. Item 3.1, which is approval of minutes from the January 21st, 2026 planning commission meeting, and item 3.2, which is a plat amendment for Home Depot located generally at 655 East Park Avenue. Uh do we have any motion? I move that the ORM city planning commission approve the consent agenda. Second. Okay. Uh, so Mike moved and Britain second that we approve the consent agenda and then we'll begin. Britain I Susan. I Mike. I Carl. Nope. Darren, I'll get it right. It's okay. [gasps]

Um, hi. Yay. Or nay. Sorry. You don't have to. Yeah. Um, uh, I I wasn't here so I guess the minutes are fine. and I haven't seen them, but uh I will assume they are. So, yay. Okay. Yay. Yay. Okay. The motion passes and our consent agenda items are approved. And then we will begin with item 4.1, which is a site plan for a com Comcast generator upgrade located generally at 1834 South Columbia Lane. Jared,

thank you. [clears throat] This is a site plan as you said for generator upgrade. This facility is already in existence. It's about 0.57 acres. It is in the C, sorry, it says R8 zone there. That's not correct. It's in the C2 zone. Um uh and it's been there for a while. The generators are outdated and they want to upgrade those and this site plan amendment moves those generators u and makes them uh newer newer versions of those same generators. Um the site plan you see here includes you can see the generators. They're actually going to move into this area and it includes this drainage um that needs to be put in for there's additional concrete being put in and we need to handle that storm drainage. So, there's a little change there uh for the site. But everything else about the site, the building itself, the entrance, the the access to the street, that's all remaining the same. Just some changes in the rear area of the lot. Um you can see this is a depiction of the generators there on the property. That's where they'll move to from their location here. And they are about 12 feet overall in height. So kind of like an accessory structure typically. And they do sit on top of some diesel tanks. And one of the storm water department's requests for us as a commission was that we include a condition of any approval granted that if we're granting approval, those generator units uh need to be the tanks underneath the generator units need to be doublewalled to contain if there's any kind of leak so it doesn't get into the storm water or some other kind of a containment system. That's really uh all there is to this particular site plan. If you have any questions for staff,

any questions for staff? Uh just one question. These are This isn't the main source of power. These are just backup generators, right? Yep. Mike, did I see they were adding a generator? That's a good question. I believe there you got there are two on site and it looked like in the diagram you had three. That's true. So, they are adding an additional one additional. Are they running off of diesel now or is that going to be new? I don't know the answer to that. I'm sorry. They are diesel. I talked to them at the uh neighborhood meeting. So, there's already a pre-existing tank underneath. Now, I don't know if the tanks are located under them. I'm I'm sorry. I just don't know that. That's

uh I don't think they're underneath that. I think the motor is on the the back end. The tank is in front from what I looked at. I didn't obviously didn't get in and look at it, but I think that's the way it was designed. So, the diesel fuel is already kind of an issue on the site, but we don't um when they make changes to sites, we bring things up into compliance with modern standards. And a lot has changed with storm water in the last 1015 years. So that's probably the reason for the double tanking. Jared, can you put the mic closer to your face? Yep. No problem. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Um, any other questions? Say, is the applicant here? Okay.

No believe so. Nope. I don't believe so. Okay. Then any other questions or comments from the planning commission? Okay. Then we'll move to motion. Can I have a motion on this item?

I move that the Oram city planning commission approve the site plan for the Comcast Comcast generator upgrade at 1834 South Columbia Lane in the C2 zone subject to the condition that the diesel tanks underneath the generator be doublewalled or that another staff approved secondary containment system is used. Thank you. Do I have a second? I second it. Okay. Susan moved and Carl seconded that we approve item 4.1. Um Britain I. Susan. I I I

Okay. Item 4.1 passes. We'll move on to item 4.2, which is a site plan for Apollo Burger located generally at 452 North State Street. Jared, I believe Grace wanted to go through her. This is Grace's project. She wanted to go through the slide. Grace, come up and do it.

I don't know if wanted was the best word, but you know, it's good to do. It's good for us to get familiar with each other. And uh so here we are. So, this is Apollo Burger that's located at 452 North State Street and it's been there for a while. The building needed a lot of repairs and actually they went in for a permit for some interior remodeling and then they realized as they were working on it that it needed a lot more help than they originally anticipated and they they realized that why don't we just actually tear this down and build something that really works for us. So that's what um they've been proposing here. This is a little over half an acre and um it's kind of sandwiched in between two streets and so you really have two frontages here and and unfortunately when it originally was made they really didn't pay attention to the frontage on the east side and so um this new proposal really kind of takes care of a lot of issues that we have on site. We just do we just do this? Okay. So, as you can see here, this shows how it's sandwiched in between um these two different streets here and it kind of borders the residential area here. And so, they of course had to have a a neighborhood meeting and basically the response was, "Well, it's going to be a lot better than it is now." [laughter] And that's basically what became of that. Here's a look at what they're planning on doing. They're still going to have a drive-thru on the north side like they already do right now. Um but again, we've got um a a big huge update when it comes to storm water issues, when it comes to how they're parking, the islands for the parking, the trees that will be on the islands and so forth. And a a really big update on the east side here with the landscaping and so forth. So that those neighbors that are facing towards Apollo are going to have a very different experience than they have right now.

Uh here again is showing kind of the idea of the landscaping and you'll notice that again we do have trees and so forth um on those islands with a parking and so Just Okay, that's good.

is happening to a property, then we ask them to make that adjustment so that we continue that upgrade along State Street. And so they're happy to do that um along with the tearing down and and the rebuild of the of the building. isn't.

So, the architectural rendering uh photo, I guess, shows that there is landscaping along the drive-thru on the north uh on that north facade picture. Am I understanding that correct? That there's landscaping with plants and rock there. This is this is just an elevation, an example. In other words, this is actually on a different location. They're just saying this is what it will look like just so you can see the type of materials and so forth that are required because the state street again we do have requirements when it comes to the amount of glass and so forth and the type of materials that are used and this meets that requirement but really when they go in and get their permit is when they're going to give the exact you know uh you know

okay I just wonder other business adjacent business and with that gravel there I wanted to make sure we weren't impeding anything with an adjacent business that makes sense yeah it is actually contained in their site what they're doing. So yeah, thank you. Good question. Anything else? Yeah, can I ask about the landscaping regulations? So

just curious, uh residents, they have to have a certain percentage minimum of green uh something like 35% I believe or 40%. Do those kinds of regulations apply to a business as well? because this looks I mean that looks very sparse green there and I realize it's just a a rendering but I'm curious what the regulations are and I like green.

We do have similar regulations actually. Yeah. 50% coverage of beds. Anything that's required it's a landscaping bed doesn't have to be turf but it has to be 50% vegetative coverage. So these depictions or these photographs or renderings from whatever other site I think um they don't reflect what what we're requiring the landscaping plan at all. Okay. Just to show you the building landscaping plan back up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it shows trees and stuff. Squeeze and bushes and

so you I don't I don't know I don't know how to read landscaping plans. So, uh circles are trees. Okay. Because we also had a uh Thank you. We also had a discussion in the Oram city council the other day about how our tree coverage has diminished in ORM over the last few years. And it would be nice to rebuild our tree canopy. So I would favor some trees here. Yes. How do we

Am I doing that right? Okay. Yes. So we we definitely understand that, you know, uh as planners, we definitely understand where you're coming from. Uh we definitely want trees to be in the right location so they're not causing issues in the in of course in the future, but this definitely is a vast improvement on what is there currently. Is it those larger octagon looking items that are the trees? Yeah, several of them we have here. So, you'll see some of them. There's a couple different shapes. And unfortunately, I I did not insert all of the the key to to for you to be able to see, but we have quite a few bushes, quite a few trees uh on this location. So, um yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is code specific. So this falls into that maybe we need to look briefly at our code and have a discussion maybe going forward about options of updating our code to provide for those things as we were discussing in the premeating kind of a thing. Yeah. So, State Street, we definitely do look at landscaping landscaping quite heavily and a lot of these older um lots and so forth, the storm water has to be updated and so we do push a lot for landscaping in order to be able to make sure that any kind of water is actually going into the landscaping. So, you know, it does usually require quite a bit of adjustment to their lot in order to meet current code when it comes to wastewater.

Thank you. Any additional questions? Okay. Thank you, Grace. Is the applicant here? Would you like to say anything or Okay, please come forward. Uh, thank you. Um, Tracy Stalking, I'm the architect. I I don't have anything to add, but I just I did want to clarify that we've been through three rounds of review with the planning staff and they've reviewed and approved all these plans. So, we think we're compliant with everything. And I want to say they've been great to work with, by the way, Grace and Becca and the team. So, happy to answer any other questions if I can.

Thank you. Any questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Um there's we can move to motion if there's not any discussion. So can I get a motion? I move the ORM city planning commission um approve the site plan for Apollers at 452 North State Street. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Mike moved and Susan seconded the site plan for Apollo Bers and then we'll go to vote. Carl. Yay. Yay. I Yes. I I

I Okay. Item 4.2 is approved. We'll move to item 4.3, which is a site plan for Home Depot located generally at 665 East Park Avenue.

Thank you. Um, as you said, this is the uh site plan request for Home Depot. The consent agenda item contained a a plat amendment for this same uh project and it combines several properties that are lying underneath here um for the purpose of of producing a a building on this site. We don't allow buildings to cross property lines. So um that's the reason for that. Uh this is the area. This is the 9.27 acres. Um this is Park Lane here coming in. Uh and university places here. Uh, so this is all part of just to kind of help you see where it is. This is Costco, the south side of Costco right here. So, the Home Depot is planned for this area here. This road um will not go into the project. It's cut off from the from the site. Um, this is a a different zone. It's called the PD34 zone. It's a planned development zone that was written for University Place. Uh, it's a mixeduse zone. It allows a lot of different things. Uh, one of them is home improvement stores and hence the Home Depot application. Um, just to talk about a little a little bit about what's happening here. As I said, it is 9.27 acres. The Home Depot building in the garden center will total just over 34,000, just under 135,000 ft. Um, 397 parking stalls are being uh redeveloped as part of this uh site. That's just a little over what what would be required under our PD34 ordinance. Again, it's a little different than just the C2 zone. It's specifically written for this area. There are a couple of things to note in looking at the site uh for Home Depot. You got the garden center here and the Home Depot here. This is the residentially zoned um neighborhood on the back side of the west side of the whole kind of the whole area. Um and that area here, you can see um there are some changes were made recently that allowed for a taller wall. A masonry wall is required in that area as part of the landscaping

and buffering in the PD34. Um that wall is going to be 12 feet high or it's adjacent to these homes here as a part of that uh reszone that was done recently to accommodate this project as well. So, there'll be a 12t wall in these areas. And then again, um this this area here that's a depth of landscaping has been shortened a little bit in order to allow the property owners that are developing to deed property over to the neighbors uh and give them more space between their homes and that 12T wall. A 12ft wall is a significant um significant thing. And it was fairly close because it's their sideyards in these cases. they didn't have much sideyard. Uh that helps kind of uh the the wall is to mitigate the impact of noise from the back of house functions of Home Depot and to mitigate those kinds of issues. And then giving them a little extra space makes it a little more tolerable to have that tall of a wall. Uh keeping those impacts in check. Um just real quickly, I want to move to the next slide and show you we were talking about landscaping briefly. These are the two areas along here that you can see from the landscaping plan. Uh the landscaping plan's been reviewed for the PD34 standards. It does meet all of those in this area. They've beefed up the landscaping a lot, included additional trees from what's required in the in the code to make sure that there's as much mitigation of noise and issues as we possibly can. So um with that in mind uh the elevations of the building are shown here. The front elevation faces the parking lot area. So it faces away from that residential neighborhood. This is the rear elevation. There's a little difference in height there. You can see the PD34 zone. Um actually in this area right here right along the back side for the first 20 ft or so is a limited area and heights in that area for the buildings for any building are limited

to 35 ft. Uh the building height in that area is 22 feet high. The front side of the building is outside that area and is a little higher just over 35 ft. Uh but the back side more than complies with that uh that height requirement. Those are the elevations as I said and um happy to take any questions if I can answer those for you as well. It is part of the larger integrated site. Those parking lots from Costco and Home Depot and some of the other uses in that area flow together now and they will with this project and they will with future projects as well. So there are shared parking and access agreements in addition to that uh parking that's a little bit more than they're required to have. So Jared, tell me about traffic flow analysis on this particular one because obviously it's going to add stress to those arteries already.

Sure. And most of the um most of the traffic coming to the site is going to come from the interior and through the Costco side probably. Uh Parklane does have some those have all been those traffic studies were done as a part of this. We have a traffic engineer or transportation engineer uh on staff and he's looked at those and approved those those plans. So, we're not I don't have the details on the numbers, trip generation or anything like that, but that's been considered very carefully. So, yeah, we hope it will increase trips to this area or to this site uh without impacting the sides. As I said, the most important thing in that PD34 zone is that no access is allowed from that residential site. So, it does not come through their dead ends in the in the in the wall.

I don't know if that answers your question or not. you know, I I I've just gone through that parking lot sometimes and it's a bit of a even without this structure, it's a bit of a headache in some of those areas. So, it can it can be um to the extent that we're able to keep traffic flowing, that's the goal. So, the main the main way through if you're not coming into the into the parking lot here is straight down this shot and then out if you want. Uh but again, it it is connected all all the way through the other the other parts of the site as well. The impact will probably go on 900 south people going behind the bar the uh mall. Gary,

just for your information, there are plans with Costco to move the gas stations to relocate them away from that front end. So, a lot of traffic that comes in off of 8 South will come in that way. And then over on 8th east in that traffic light that's between the apartments and the theater. Uh it's on our plan already to have that intersection upgraded and provide uh turning lanes and it'll make for easier access into that area. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Okay.

Darren, did you have a question? Uh, I I guess I'm curious when when they do this traffic analysis, are there codes about that or regulations? I mean, what's what's kind of the goal there? There are standards to follow to and what they're basically looking at is this going to cause any intersections to fail. Um, they're looking at numbers and making sure that the sizing of the accesses and the sizing of the roads are appropriate to handle it. That's all been vetted. So, yeah, but those are the standards. Thank you. Um, and just I don't know. Also, I'm I'm just curious uh how are the neighbors thinking about this?

We had some some long zone change hearings about this item. We had uh a couple. Uh so the just a that's a great question. I'm going to go back up one here cuz this shows it pretty well. This lot right here was a this is a resident. You can kind of see underneath that green that there's a house there. uh the the Woodberries have purchased that they reszoned it into the PD34. So this project has the the site plan has been out there for a while especially in this west line as a part of that discussion about that zone change for that lot. So it's been through a couple of uh planning commission and city council iterations uh and been viewed a lot of a a lot of concern about the effect of the Home Depot sighting here on these residences. Hence the the 12T wall. We had to change code to do that. The PD34 had to be modified to allow the 12T height cuz normally we don't allow 12T masonry walls. That's a significant structure. And but the the neighbors felt like if if anything was going to uh help them not be as impacted by this structure being built here, it would be something like that to handle the noise. uh lighting this and just to your question too um I should mention lighting plans are vetted as a part of this too because that PD34 zone is uh requires that lights not glare uh directly into yards or windows and things like that. So there's supposed to be certain kinds of lights those have all been looked at should function well that's one of those things as well. So light pollution um hopefully that all mitigates.

Okay Susan can I ask a question about the wall? Um got two sections of 12T but there's no access is the remaining part of that 8ft wall. We didn't this this right here. Yeah. Um and that and the corner right the corner this these corners are 12 ft. Yes. Okay. And this section here was drawn as 8 ft but they've the Home Depot folks have said that can be 12 ft as well. It wasn't it wasn't clear in our because I was going to say visually that doesn't make any sense to have 12. It's going to be 12 ft from end to end. Yes. Yeah. And the wall. Yeah. The wall will be 12 ft all the way along in this in this in this area. Just this little section

further south. I should be clear. Further south it's not 12 ft where the Home Depot is. So all along. Sorry. So it's just those areas that are shown right down here. further. It's not 12 ft high because the the back of house function of that deliveries of the deliveries of the trucks to the dock and things like that were what the the main concern about the noise was and hence the wall. So further south it's they're not required. They get back to the 8ft wall south of this immediate area. Mike, it's also a backyard when you get further south instead of true not as impacting on the residents.

Okay. Any other questions from the commission at this time? Uh, applicant, would you like to say anything or come forward? I guess Home Depot. Yeah, I'm I'm Barry Simmons from Home Depot. Um, yeah, I just I just want to thank you for the consideration and we look forward to joining the community. Um, I think we've worked with Woodbury quite a bit on trying to um figure out what the best uh arrangement would be for the neighbors. We've made some concessions and I think hopefully that's agreeable to all parties involved, but thank you for the consideration.

Okay, thank you. Any questions for the applicant? Okay, thank you. Great. This is not a p this is a public hearing, but we aren't taking public comment. Let me just clarify one point. I couldn't hear. Okay. What is your one point? Okay.

Specifically where the 12 foot wall will go from one end to the other because the the drawings that we've seen have not been satisfactory because it looks like the wall is going to go across where that orange line is but not across the street. So, if you can designate specifically that the ball will go from point A across the street making the corner and back up to the north point. Okay. It's not drawn orange. The orange the orange isn't the indication of the wall. Oh, sorry.

I want to restate what the question was because we didn't have them come forward toward the back. The question was just clarification on where exactly the 12oot wall is going to be delineated. Yeah. So the the orange is actually the land that's going to be transferred to the homeowners. The 12ft wall, if you start at the very top, um there's a little jog there. Well, you're not Yeah. East, west. Yeah. Um that's 12 ft. You come down along the orange, that's 12 ft. Come across the road and down the road, 12 feet all the way down past the orange, 12 feet. Go left 12 feet. And then the 8 foot existing 8ft masonry wall starts from there and goes south. And it is old masonry. It's It will all be Mason. Okay. We just wanted to clarify that. Okay. Thank you.

It was confusing the way it was drawn. I appreciate that. Thanks. Thank you. I know you're not taking We're not taking public comments. Is it a clarification question? Yes. I think

Okay, then pause for a minute because I need to ask the the planning commission. We need to keep order and we need things to be on the record correctly. And so that's why it seems like we're being a little formal, but that's why we need it to be this way. Gary, what's your feelings on taking public comment on an because this is an administrative item, this isn't legislative, so being an administrative item, um it's not a public hearing, but there's no harm in allowing the public to make a comment. and any comment that they make um uh you can certainly consider, but again it needs to uh impact a code violation or something of that nature for us or let me step back. What we're trying to do do in this administrative item is determine whether it complies with our code. And so public comment should uh be something that helps us figure that out.

Okay. Um so I'm going to ask the planning commission, do we want to open for public comment? Well, can you say that into your mic? I am always fine with letting the public be heard. Thank you. I agree with that. Okay, I think we should Well, the agenda does say under for it is public hearing and action item. Well, this the public hearing versus public comment thing. Everything's a public hearing. Public comments different. Although we must call public hearings and public comments and it gets all formal from there. We'll make sure that agenda is confusing because everything is a public meeting but not everything is a public hearing.

And section four of that agenda is public hearings and action items. That's where so it's where we put the site plans and things and subdivisions and it's also where we put the zone change items. Okay. Not my best format for an agenda and and we'll figure out a way to better designate that. I can make that choice. I can make that choice. I was just asking for input. Yeah, I'm No, I think it's fine. I will just I will go ahead and open for public comment. Please keep your comments to about three minutes and understand that we are limited in what our decisions can be here, but if we can help clarify something, we we're happy to do that. So, if you'd like to come forward, you may.

Yeah. To the mic, please, because it needs to be on the record. And please state your name. My name is Kim Miller. [clears throat] Um, on the end of the street there is currently a fire hydrant that will be on the commercial side and won't be over on the residential side and I just want to make sure that's addressed and looked into and I hadn't heard anything on that. Okay.

And the same thing there's a light uh street lamp there. the it goes back over uh all the electrical goes back over again on the other side on the commercial side if that's correct terminology. I just want to make sure that that is addressed and make sure that still works. Can I clarify your question? Do you want the lamp to move to the other side or what? Leave leave the lamp there. Just just double checking on that. Move move the fire hydrant. Okay. Yeah, that No, that's a very valid thing to bring up. We appreciate that. Thank you. Fire hydrant wouldn't do us any good on that the other side.

That is a that is a very valid question. The street lamp apparently there is Oh, I need to You guys don't want to No one else wants to come forward. Okay, then I will close the public comment. So that's a very valid question. What happens?

I don't know the exact answer to that question. I only know that the fire department, the the fire marshall has looked at this and the fire department looked at it in in detail because we at one point were going to require a culde-sac back there to turn around. Um, so I'm assuming that they've got the fire hydrant located where they want it or plan to move it. But that again would we we can also address those kinds of issues during the building permit phase. Um, it's good to know it for the site plan and talk about the street lamp. We can make sure that stays it's appropriate for something like fire hydrant here. fire that side. Oh, lamp. Not not no lamp. Okay. This is on fire. I think that's a good thing to address during the site plan review.

We definitely would. And uh I know that um fire the fire department already vetted it and has signed off as a part of the development review committee. Um so they're they should be aware of that. I'll double check with the marshall and make sure, but as as part of the building permit process, we would look at that as well. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

You bet. Okay. Thank you. any um additional comments or discussion from the planning commission. Okay, then we will move to motion on this item. Do I have a motion? I move that the ORM City Planning Commission approve the site plan for Home Depot located at 655 East Park Lane in the PD34 zone. Okay. Do I have a second? I second. Okay, Darren moved and Carl seconded that we approve the site plan for Home Depot. Britain I I

I I Okay. Item 4.3 is approved and then we will move on to item 4.4 which is a preliminary plat rolling sand located generally at 1765 South Sandill. Jared,

thank you. Um, I know you're familiar with it, but I'm going to go through it because we have new commissioners that haven't seen it. So, I I'll run through the application uh and show you what we're talking about. This is a fun one because it's it involves deep lots. Worm calls them deep lots. A lot of people know them as flag lots. Um, it does include these properties here. The properties are located in the R8 zone on Sand Hill Road. What they would like to do is turn that top lot here into a flag lot. So it becomes these two lots become a third lot as well. Uh this deep this is the deep lot. It's served from an access that runs past lot one. So it's an easement across lot one to get to lot two. So deep lots are a little different. So if any if any point you have any questions, let me know and I'll I'll stop and talk about it more. Normally in a subdivision, in any regular subdivision, as you can see, these lots here all have frontage on this circle. Lot three and lot one have frontage out on the public road on Sandill. Um, one of the only, um, exceptions to having certain distance, a certain length of frontage on a public rideway are deep lots or flag lots. One day I'm going to change the code to say flag lot so I can stop confusing myself as I talk about these things. uh that that exception allows for an area to be created as a lot or turned into a lot that is located to the rear or in some other inaccessible fashion and have less frontage than normally required out on the public rideway. So, it does come with a couple of standards though that are additional to normal subdivisions. The first being that this back lot, the flag lot needs to be at least 125% of the minimum lot size required in the zone. This is an R8, so 8,000 ft. It's the only math that I do besides acreage stuff. So 10,000 square feet you need. We're over that for lot two. So it meets that standard. Accesses for flag lots cannot be done from a culde-sac. So this is a good example of that. This lot can provide access to a flag lot. But we couldn't do a flag lot

here because this lot is from a culde-sac. We don't do accesses for flag lots from culde-sacs. Uh the deep lot um is allowed to have public access has to have public access to a public street or access to a public street at least 20 to 26 ft of access. Um in this case that's designated as an easement. It can be an easement or it could be physical property. The lot could be shaped like a flag and that's why they're they're often called flag lots. Um curbing is required for that. Uh just so you know when they this will become a this is a driveway and when the driveway is serving this lot too it'll be curbed. So, it won't just be a regular driveway ending in grass. It'll have a curb to handle water. Drainage is a big issue. Uh, especially with lots like this, deep lots, we want to make sure that all works right. No part of that deep lot can be closer than 80 ft to that intersection of the access to the street. So, what that means is no part of lot 2 that's created here can be within 80 ft of this public rideway. Um, you can think of it, if you want to simplify it, you think of it as it's an allin or nothing. It's all or nothing. You either do the flag lot, but you don't do a kind of a, well, we're going 30 feet past the main lot and then we're branching out into the deep lot in the back. No, you go at least 80 ft back. That's most of the length of a typical lot. Um, private drives and accesses have to be concreted or asphalt. We can't do these on gravel. Can't be dirt. Uh, it's got to be paved like a at least like a driveway. It can be done with asphalt, though. And it can't service more than four lots. In this case, it's only serving one. So, that's that's all right. They can though serve they can serve significant numbers more three more lots. Uh any questions about that? It does meet those deep lot standards um as we've seen them. I have even more. I forgot there were more cuz it's been a while since I went through these slides. Sorry. Uh they're only allowed to be one story above grade unless that lot is at least 15,000 ft. So lot two here, the house that we put on it as planning staff reviews any home plans for it, we'll make have to make sure that it's only one story above grade. Uh that's to keep there from being issues when you're

building in the backs of areas you might be in uh more close proximity because we allow these different kinds of setbacks. 15 foot setbacks might put you closer to somebody than normal. Um so they're only allowed to be one story above grade unless they're very large lots. Uh we only allow single family residences on deep lots. You can't do a duplex back here or anything like that. Uh the preliminary plat as it does here has to show the buildable area. Um two of those setbacks have to be 25 ft. The others have to be at least 12. Um, exterior lot boundaries have to be a 15t setback. So, this could be 12 except that it's the edge of this subdivision. So, it's got to be 15, if that makes sense. Uh, primary structures have to be set back at least 5 ft from any private drive access on the Dplot. So, for example, as this drive access comes in, the structure also has to be 5 ft back from the edge of that access that comes in to make sure that they can get out of the access. If there were if there were additional lots being served by this access way and back of those and back of lot two here, you want to make sure that people can get out of the way and they're not blocking that uh that access. A lot of a lot of angry people result from blocked driveway accesses like that. Um, garage doors and carport entries facing deep plot accesses have to be set back 18 ft. So if your your house is there, it's got to be at least 5 ft back because people are prone to kind of pull alongside their house, right? But if your driveway or if your garage is facing that access, you got to be at least 18 ft from that driveway with the house set back regardless of what our setback rules are of 12 or 15 ft or whatever it is. And that's those are the standards you want to look for in deep lots. So we would review all of those with any house plan that came in and make sure that meets all those standards. That's our that's our job as the planners. And uh other than that, this the subdivision meets the standards for deep lots as they're contained in our code. Uh any questions?

Do the state accessory mandates apply? Do they have access to accessories here? Accessory dwelling units. Yeah. So, you can do an accessory dwelling unit on a flag. Yeah, it would be legitimate for that. Okay. As long as there's adequate this Yeah. The same standards would apply though. They'd have to provide extra parking for that unit. And sometimes that gets tricky with flag lots. If they're not really big, if they're barely meeting those minimums, it can get tricky to provide the normal parking for the regular unit and then additional parking. We have standards for that that are required for our ADUs, but technically, yeah, they're eligible for ADUs. Okay, good question. Uh, any others? Any other questions for staff? Okay.

Okay. Is the applicant here? I don't. I think so. I don't think so. Okay. Hey, any other Do you have a question or ready for abortion? Okay. Okay. Then we'll if there's no further discussion on this or questions, we will move to motion. I move that the Orm City Blind Commission approve the rolling sand preliminary preliminary subdivision for the property located generally at 1765 South Sandill Road in the R8 zone subject to the conditions outlined in the staff report. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Carl moved and Darren seconded that we approve the preliminary plat for rolling sand. Okay. We'll go a vote. I

I I I

Okay. The uh we have enough eyes. So, we will that motion passes. Yeah. And then before we journ uh Gary, anything else? Thank you for serving. It's uh glad to work with you and on behalf of the mayor and council and staff, we are grateful for your desire to help us. Uh it's an important role that you play and uh we'll be doing some continuing training that we need to do in the future. And so if any questions come up uh give me a call, let me know. email me and we can talk about it. I always doing something new takes me three or four meetings or times before I get into the rhythm and and then just when I feel I know what I'm doing, I I get released. So, [laughter] [snorts]

okay. Thank you. And and again, congratulations for making through your first planning commission meeting. I know it seems like a lot. Please, kind of to go off of Gary, if you don't understand something we're talking about, please ask. We're happy to pause and explain things. It it does take this this this particular commission takes a little bit of time to get used to and and you will get there. So with that, do we have a motion to adjurnn? A motion we adjourn. Okay. Second. Okay. Mike moved and written seconded that we journ. I I I Okay, we are adjourned at 6:23 p.m. Thank you very much.