Heritage Commission - Regular Meeting

I just, I really want them to attend. I'm sure we're going to get several people from there.

I just, I don't know.

I'll take care of it.

That sounds great. I guess, Bill, do you want to pick us up? It looks like we've got enough for a quorum.

Wonderful. Let me pull the agenda back open on my end. And forgive me as I still am not great at rules or Robert's rules of order, but I will officially call the meeting to order 531. Should we do roll call?

And do. All right. Commissioner Cotter.

Present.

Commissioner Bowman. Present. Commissioner Stedman. Present. Commissioner Patrick. Commissioner Becker? Commissioner Shepard is excused. He emailed me earlier. Commissioner Kimball? Present. Commissioner Nace? And Commissioner Foster? I am here.

All right. Wonderful.

Okay, so approval of the agenda. I think we usually give folks a couple minutes to look over the agenda right before we do the approval.

And I do have a note. So on the agenda, it's mentioning two student presentations that you'll need to make a motion to amend the agenda. We're having one student who is here, hi Erica, and then another student presentation for next month.

Great. I'll give people a second to look things over and then I will move, so move. Cool. Everybody have a chance to check it out? Awesome. So then I will move to amend the agenda. for the number of student presentations. I'm assuming I need a second for that. Second. Amazing. And I think that's it, right? Or no, all in favor. Don't we need to do an all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? So moved.

OK.

um the approval of the agenda with the amendment has been noted awesome next is approval of the minutes from the april meeting which should be in our packet if folks want to take just an additional second to check those over and welcome commissioner patrick Awesome. I move to approve the minutes from the previous meeting. All in favor? Any opposed? Awesome. Minutes approved. Next, we've got time for public comment. Not sure if we have any folks from the public on the call, though.

We have two folks attending with, or on Zoom, and then we've got someone in the room here with us. I believe if folks have a comment that they'd like to make that are attending, you should be able to raise your hand, and then I can allow you to speak for your comment. So I'll give you folks a moment online And in the room, if anyone needs to make a public comment.

Can I make a comment?

Oh, sure thing, okay. So if you'd like to state your name and then make a public comment.

Yes, my name is Greg Griffith and I am representing the Olympian Historic Society at the Boston Museum this evening. So I just wanted to make a few brief announcements about upcoming events I should think of be of interest to commission members and guests. One is coming up just real shortly on, as a matter of fact, this vault is coming Friday evening at six o'clock at Roosevelt Elementary School. Here is a flyer that I can pass around. There's lots of copies for you to take. certainly invited. This is something that we've been working on with the Roosevelt Elementary School PTA that has undertaken this effort to preserve and protect school records that were about to be destroyed a few years ago, right before COVID happened. A parent, Jerica Pender, took action and recognized the historic significance of these documents, including scrapbooks, photographs, ledgers, records, newsletters, memorabilia of Roosevelt Elementary School, dating back to 1906. And those could have been tossed out in the dumpster. And Jerrica took in steps to intervene and set them aside and put them in a closet until January of this year. when she approached the Historical Society saying that she had this collection and wanted to work with us in making sure that those records had a happy permanent home. So this is a celebration of that occurrence and that transfer of the documents to the Historical Society for our collections that are going to be housed at Everton State College in the near future. And so we're going to be having a program PowerPoint presentation and program and then an open house and tours of the school and getting a sense of what the records are that were preserved. So we're really happy to be a part of that program. The other is a little bit further in the future. We're having on June 25th, a Thursday, what we're calling a History Career Exploration Day. So we're working with a number of people and agencies and organizations in the community, including the Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation, to show prospective students, in high school primarily, about what kinds of careers might be out there that might be of interest for them to pursue. So if you are of age, if you're in high school, or if you know of those who might be in high school and might be interested in history and might be thinking about, oh, how can I make use of my interest in history to further my career? This will be the day to do that. So we'll be visiting a number of organizations that I was talking about beginning around that morning and going to the afternoon. We'll be going to DAP again and other organizations that just sort of show what people can make a livelihood in the history realm. So that's June 23rd.

Is information for that posted on your website?

June 25th? Yeah. Not yet.

Okay, when it is posted, let me know and I can share it out with the group.

That would be great. Thank you very much, Wendy, of course, as always. But thank you, Michelle. Thank you so much.

Awesome. Do we have any additional public comment?

I do not see any hands raised for the online attendees, so we can move to the next item.

Okay, announcements. We have any announcements?

No new announcements at this time. I think everything else is covered in the business items and the report is later, so we can move on to the next step.

All right, well, let's move on to the business items then. So the first one on the agenda for this month is our certified local government training. I see we have Michelle Thompson on the call.

um thank you as always for coming and uh being willing to to help us uh with this training so i turn it over turn it over to you great hi everybody thanks for having me hi greg um all right i'm gonna share my screen here so you can see my can everybody see that see my screen yes okay Just a second here. All right, so hi, everybody. My name is Michelle Thompson, and I'm going to give you a training tonight about the Certified Local Government Commission, so just kind of your Olympia Heritage Commission 101. I know there's a lot of new people on the commission, and you guys have a lot of kind of changes and updates that you all are doing with the ordinance, so I'm just going to kind of give you an overview, and I'm going to be there in a few weeks. I'm going to be there for a Your camp training from the NAPC. And if you haven't had much time to kind of look at that, the NAPC, it's the National Alliance for Preservation Commissions. So it's the national organization of basically the local historic preservation commissions. And so, as you probably know, we've got people coming in from like around the country. We've got experts coming in from around the country. So this is going to be really great. I'm so glad that this is happening, that it worked out. So I'm going to come over for that. And I will see you in person in a few weeks. So who is this? This is me, Michelle Thompson. So I live in eastern Washington outside of Spokane. I live in a little town called Cheney, but I have been living in Olympia off and on since 1980. So my kindergarten class toured the brewery is how long my roots go back. to Olympia so very long time so there's me I'm your certified local government coordinator I'm also the main street design specialist and I work for DAP Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation I'll talk a little bit more about all of this and there's a picture of me in graduate school so I actually have a full degree in historic preservation right it's a thing so speaking of when Greg was just talking about careers in history it's an option You will probably recognize this building. It's across from Capitol campus. So this is the Department of archeology and historic preservation building. And we also go by DAP, D-A-H-P, the DAP. There's lots of things you can call us. We're also the state historic preservation office. Every state has a state historic preservation office. So we're a small state agency and we're down in the basement of this building. And so there are archaeologists, the state anthropologists, and then there's the unit that I work for, which is the built environment. So we're all the above ground kind of preservation unit. So certified local government, I kind of wish that it wasn't called that because it doesn't really indicate what it is and it just kind of makes people confused, I think, a lot. So certified local government, it just means that you have a local historic preservation program that's certified by the National Park Service. That's where certified local government comes in. It's basically like an accreditation. So you've got the National Park Service at the federal level overseeing historic preservation. You'll see National Park Service on all kinds of stuff having to do with historic preservation. And then at the state level, you've got the State Historic Preservation Offices, DAP. So that's us at the state level, and then your certified local government. So that's the historic preservation commissions that are part of that program. And whoops, there are 60 certified local governments or CLG communities in the state of Washington. That's quite a bit. Every state has a certified local government program. We have them all around the state, not quite in every county at this point, but all around the state. And each community actually had to elect to be part of the CLG program. So it was something that they went through a process. It isn't something that, you know, the state comes in and tells you that you're going to do. It's something that Olympia actually applied for. Your ordinance was passed. A preservation commission was formed a long time ago. A lot of things happened to be part of this program. And basically, the certified local... government program. It's best practices for local historic preservation commissions. So you can have a historic preservation commission, a local commission without being part of this program, but you're not going to have that same kind of one-on-one direct, you know, training and help and all of the, you know, all of the stuff that we do for the CLGs. So your mission, this is just a nutshell, and I please know that, like, I'm hoping that this relationship is an ongoing thing. I come in the Zoom forum. I come in actual person forum. However you need me, you can call me. You can email me. But just know I'm going to talk about several things tonight. There's always a lot more to the CLG program, to historic preservation. I'm just going to kind of give you an overview. Don't feel like you have to memorize anything. I'm here for questions, but this is just basically what a certified local government does. So you identify historic things, you register them, you protect them, and then you educate the public. So that's kind of your basic mission.

So identify.

So identifying stuff. There's all kinds of ways you all can identify stuff. I mean, some of you might live in a house or work somewhere where you're thinking, you know, it's a good, that building is a good candidate for historic preservation. I'm currently working on getting my own house listed on our local register in the town that I live in. So lots of ways. Sometimes I'm sure you have people come to you in the community and are interested in maybe getting their house on a register or historic preservation. But then a really common way that we identify historic buildings is through a survey. And I'm going to talk about CLG grants. uh kind of towards the end of my talk but there's something that happens every year that you all can apply for um and one of the main things um kind of the bread and butter of the CLG grants that communities apply for are these surveys and so basically they hire a qualified historic preservation consultant somebody qualified in architectural history to come in take photos make um individual forms for buildings, write a report, evaluate the buildings for the National Register of Historic Places, the local register. They'll give you an opinion on whether they think you have a historic district, all kinds of stuff. But these surveys are kind of your first step, kind of bread and butter of things you want to be doing to identify. It's one of the ways that you can identify your historic resources. So one of the things this is going to be a big topic and this was, you know, a conversation that Brittany and I have been having for a few years and then kind of the person that was in Brittany's position previously, Holly. That the national register and the local register are 2 completely separate programs. That's 1 of the things if you all are probably aware that we're diving into your local ordinance. We're trying to clear some things up, make things more easier to for the public to understand, but also easier for the city. And then. you all as preservation commission members to understand but one of the things i just really if you if one of the key things i really want you to take with you tonight is that the national register of historic places and your local register are two completely separate programs and there's a unique process for both there are different benefits and different rules um for both of those So the National Register, it's honorary. It's symbolic. A lot of people get tripped up on that. A lot of people think, oh, the National Register, it's, you know, this. And it really is. It's an honor to be on the National Register. It's the hardest register to get a building listed on. But at the end of the day, like I said, it's considered honorary. It's symbolic. It does not protect against crime. Um, changes through, um, it doesn't protect against demolition, right? That's just that's a really 1 of the most common misconceptions about the national register. Um, though, getting things listed on the national register or a national register district can open up certain financial incentives. And then you've got the local register. That's your, you know, Olympia. I think it's called the Olympia Heritage Register. Easier to get on than the national register. So you can be a little bit more kind of inclusive with the things that you add to the local register. The big difference here is that when you add something to the local register or have a local district register, then that means that you can do the design review process. You can actually review for changes to things listed on the local register or in a local register district. You could have, and this happens periodically, you'll have a national register district and a local register district. That's fine, but just know those are two totally separate processes. We don't just slap a local register district on a national register district. You want to go through these totally different separate processes. And then you can do design review for proposed changes to those resources, but the authority to do the design review comes with it being listed on the local register And there are also financial incentives for being on the local register. So, this is something just from our state attorney general's office. We've been working really closely with them. And I'm going to send you the link to this. This is so I don't need to necessarily read verbatim from the screen, but you get the point, right? The national register is honorary. So, you can kind of read some of her language here. This is what the National Register of Historic Places, the nomination form looks like. That's the actual nomination form for the South Capitol Neighborhood Historic District. And then there's a picture of what your local register form looks like. And then since I'm going to send this as a link, hopefully you all have this already, but the link to your local register nomination forms is in this slide.

So you can click on it when I send it to you.

you want to build your local register you want to you want to build your national register and you want to build your you want to build the local register um the local register right you want to recognize what's olympia important in olympia we've talked about this that um nomination form for the local register it's gonna um document the character defining features of a building so you know the things that make it i'm just kind of like you know in the photo you've got this kind of um turned and posts on a on an older building you know anything that is kind of the historic character of the building that's the character defining features and all of this when you add something to the local register is setting the stage so that um you can do design review to changes on those buildings and also offer incentives to um to those property owners the criteria for being listed on, no, we're just going to talk about the local register. I kind of try to make sure that I'm highlighting which register we're talking about on the screen. You want to read your local ordinance. It's got the criteria in it. I'm not going to go over verbatim what the criteria is to be added to the local Olympia register, but rule of thumb, 50 years, we have to have a date. 50 years is just, you know, it's, it's, It's in general what something needs to be considered historic. Condition isn't really a factor. That's the thing that surprises people a lot too. You know, they'll see a building that is in pretty poor condition, but if it has a lot of its kind of historic elements still there, that's oftentimes what's more important. When you do a design review to things listed on the local register, you're going to have your design review criteria. I didn't see it. I think there might be some. I'm not sure if the ordinance has been opened up. I wasn't quite sure where to find it exactly in your ordinance. But what I believe it is, and Brittany can check me on this too, is the... The Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation. These are like common gold standards for historic preservation. There are 10 of them. Most of the CLGs, like you all, when they become a CLG and adopt their ordinance, they adopt these as their design review criteria. like you all were talking about at the beginning like following robert's rules right it's the same kind of thing it's this is kind of what keeps you the commission both in check but also gives you your powers when you're doing a design review so it's never i don't like that or that doesn't look old-fashioned enough or an opinion right you want to make sure that you're sticking to the design review criteria at the heart of design review for historic preservation is always going to be trying to keep the historic character right as much as we can. We want to try to keep as much of like the physical historic character of a building as we can. And we call that historic integrity. You'll see that word in your ordinance. It talks about something having integrity. A lot of times people just kind of gloss over that word integrity, but it has a specific meaning in historic preservation. It's basically the idea that a historic place still feels and reads as a place that originally was. And it doesn't mean you have to freeze anything in time at all. all buildings have changed at some point you know all buildings that's huge have changed at some point but we're really trying to keep as much of that historic character um that helps tell the story as we can through design review so as i mentioned a moment ago condition isn't as important right you can see stuff it can be brought back you see that all the time right because all of the the historic parts are still there it's this building has integrity loss of integrity um You know, sometimes people will look at stuff and say, oh, you know, well, you know, the top of this building, you know, it's well cared for. You know, they put something on the top. They've got this T-111 or something up in the top. It's, you know, it's in decent condition. But this building has a pretty major blow to its historic integrity. You can see what's gone. And sometimes, you know, one of the great things when you add something to the local register, asking for on that nomination form, asking the building owner to include photos and stuff as much as you can, because, you know, if somebody didn't have a photo of this older building, right? We might not have known what it what it used to look like, right? Like, that it didn't always have kind of that shape of the roof or whatever. So that's why it's really important that those nomination forms are pretty thorough and that you have as much information as you can about the state of the building at the time of the nomination. But anything historically too. Here's just some more examples of loss of integrity. I mean, the building is still there, but it's just kind of little by little by little. It's losing its historic elements. Here's another one. You know, it's a needle building. I mean, it reads as an old building, but you see those kind of those beautiful kind of Victorian woodwork, the turn posts and the shutters and all of that stuff. It's gone. So it's a lot of times we'll talk about death by a thousand cuts and historic preservation and little by little by little the integrity starts to disappear. Here's a picture of a building that's kind of mid-integrity loss. There's still some stuff to try to be salvaged. And this is the stuff, too. I mean, if you add things to the local register, you can be pretty... You can be pretty... You can add several things to the local register. It doesn't need to have pristine integrity to be added to the local register. But for things that have already lost some of the integrity, we want to make sure that we're really paying attention to not losing any more if we can. National Register districts, you have a couple in Olympia. They need the majority of property owners to consent. It's one vote per owner. They offer incentives. I'll talk about that in a moment, the incentives. These are always good ideas for our annual grants that you all can apply for if you've got a district that you want to create. Local districts, also a great idea for a future CLG grant. They're really good for proactive planning to try to protect the character of an area through design review. I know I'm hammering this to death, but National Register offers no protection. Local districts offer incentives. So if you've got a local district, you can do design review on a bunch of buildings at once. and um or like it opens up design review to a bunch of buildings at once in a neighborhood and also opens up those property owners to a bunch of financial incentives all at once um in your ordinance what it says about creating a local district it says signatures must be obtained from the owners of a majority of the properties within the proposed district so this is all kind of an owner consent um situation but you're never going to get a hundred percent um of the owners Establishing a district there's I'll just send this to you. I don't need to read this kind of verbatim. It's a lot about education and outreach and I'm working to make sure that you've got community support. 1 of the things that. Communities do like Spokane near where I live when they create a local district, they actually have in their ordinance that they also need to create design guidelines. I'm not saying that you will have to do this, but when. When a local district is created or a National Register district is created, it's created – there's a relationship there, right? Like downtown or the South Capitol, right? It's not the South Capitol plus a little piece of something on the west side or whatever, right? There tends to kind of – there tends to be consistency there. in terms of, you know, styles and kind of some build dates and the significance, kind of the story that it tells. And so, you know, all the neighborhoods, I'm thinking just in Olympia, you know, the west side and the east side are pretty different. South Capitol is pretty different. So one of the great things about design guidelines is As they apply to local historic districts is it gives more kind of in depth guidance to property owners for your design review. So you have those secretary of the interior standards I talked about, which are really kind of like, keep as much of the historic character. in place they're pretty general but design um guidelines for a local district can be great because think about you know something like the south capital or most of the stuff up there was built within a certain time period right so you're starting to get into like um more things with kind of windows and doors and just kind of more specific but they're tailored to the individual um historic character of the neighbor of that particular neighborhood CLG grants are open right now. They close July 30th. There is a link to the grants and there is a link to all the past grant products if you want to check out and see what people have done. Okay, I keep talking about the national register has financial incentives. The local register has financial incentives. I do not expect you all to memorize this. I just want a little light bulb to go off in your head when you think, oh, something on the national register. There could be financial incentives for this as a way to kind of help sweeten the pot a little bit for people. Adding their buildings to the national register, the local register for the national register. The main financial incentive is something called federal historic tax credits has to be listed on the national register or in a national register district. So, like, downtown South capital, and it needs to be income producing. there's a whole formula for how kind of this works and what you have to put into it and, um, money wise and stuff that basically it's a, it's a federal tax credit. Um, For the local register, we have something called special tax valuation. This is a state incentive. So anything listed on the local register or in a local registered district can get this special tax valuation. It's basically the primary benefit is that during there's a 10 year special valuation period, property taxes don't reflect the substantial improvements made to the properties. So basically people aren't getting punished for putting money into their historic building by having their property taxes um skyrocket because they've then upped the the uh the value of their building so it doesn't prevent property taxes from going up but it can actually help to offer to take a chunk off of that for up to 10 years so anyway please just general in general understand special tax valuation is um is something that's available for their local register. A lot of times people stack these. If something's on the national register and the local register, they'll do those federal historic tax credits and special tax valuation, totally fine to do that. Special tax valuation can actually be used for people's homes. So like all, you know, if you had a local historic district or anybody that's listed on the local register with their actual home, they could take advantage of the special tax valuation i can't tell you how rare it is that there is a historic preservation financial incentive for private home ownership that's really rare Lots of grants. They come up all the time. There's some that are kind of more common. My agency, DAP, has the Historic Cemetery Grant, Historic Theater Grant, Barnes. There's all kinds of stuff. A lot of times being listed on a register is a prerequisite for being registered. Being able to take advantage of these on all the time, but it's I, I've got the link here just maybe bookmark it and keep it. Just keep it in your keep it in your bookmarks folder. Check back in every once in a while. Preservation partners, there are people all around you that are helping with preservation. So you all are part of that maritime Washington national heritage area. You are part of the main street program, you know, any of this stuff you guys want to talk about more in depth. I'm not going to go that deep into it. Washington trust for historic preservation. They're up in Seattle. We work really closely with them. You've got lots of lots of partners. The 1, I would really suggest if you all haven't kind of thought about this yet is your local main street, your local main street program. That's something we can talk about more in the future. A couple of resources that's a great thing to have your hands on, even if it's just the commission has a copy. A Field Guide to American Houses by Virginia Savage McAllister. This will be your favorite new book if you don't have it. This is kind of like... every preservationist owns this book um it's really wonderful for helping you understand what should be what an appropriate um uh feature of a historic building um would be and the politics of historic districts there's a lot that goes into that so um that's not a bad one especially if you all are thinking about um going for some local historic districts in olympia Again, I'm going to send you this. You'll have the links. There's something called the preservation briefs. These are from the National Park Service. These play off of those Secretary of Interior standards, those 10 standards you use for design review. If you get really stuck on like, I don't know, let me see, like a cleaning treatment or brick or something. These really kind of dive more deep into the weeds with all kinds of preservation topics. So the Secretary of the Interior Standards are really general, and these complement them to help you kind of understand those topics better. There's like over 50 of them, so there's pretty much one for every occasion. We do lots of trainings at DAP, you know, besides these kind of, you know, one-on-one things. We've been doing something called DAP Academy. I've got the links to all of this. They're like usually like half an hour lunchtime stuff on all kinds of different things. I'm going to do one on special tax valuation coming up in July. We have a YouTube page that has a bunch of just stuff that we've done at DAP and then other things we've added to, so maybe explore there. Follow our Facebook page that has all kinds of upcoming events, interesting information, things that are helpful. We have a big conference. It's our yearly conference called Places.org. And it's the State Historic Preservation Conference. And you all can use the CLG grant that closes June 30th. You all can use that to apply to send commission members to Ellensburg this year to go to that conference. And it covers lodging and all of that stuff too, not just the cost of the admission. But this is super fun.

Our big database called the Wizard.

I would recommend just getting it and playing around with it. You're not going to break it. Just get in and play around with it. And you can kind of type in Olympia into the map function and kind of start playing around with stuff and see what you can see. We've got all kinds of information on various buildings in our wizard database. And thank you. And there's my number. And there's my email. So please get in touch with me. Seriously, I mean, if you just want to, you know, talk and say, like, I don't understand this or, like, how does this work or whatever, that's what I'm here for. So that's what I have for you. Do you all have any questions?

I have one really quickly. Also, thank you so much for taking time to share the training with us. But I think one of the things that I heard you mention in terms of establishing local historic districts, I think that you said that the majority of property owners have to affirm in writing, like with their signature, that they want to be a part of that. Is that what you said?

what I believe it says in your ordinance. There's more guidance in your ordinance, but that's the language. Yeah, the language that I had in there, I pulled from the ordinance. Yes.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because I think that was like an open question that we had at one point was whether or not that was the case they needed to affirm in writing or if it was like a essentially like an opt out, like they needed to confirm if they were opting out or if they did not want to be a part of things. But I should go back through and reread the ordinance again.

I know there's a lot in the ordinance. If you don't have it in your, does she have it? If you don't have it in your ordinance, make sure if there's any questions that you're like, how would we do this? Because sometimes it's like, well, what if somebody doesn't respond, right? Is that a yes? Is that a no? Like what's that? So if it's not in your ordinance or it's not, I think the whole process is in your ordinance. And you have questions like that, make sure that you advocate to get that put in there. But that's really common. You know, it'll be like a simple majority, 50% plus one. It'll say stuff like that. And one of the things that's really important I want you all to know right now is the constant kind of battle with historic preservation. And we just had a House bill pass into law into the state, and it's about owner consent. And this kind of Seattle had triggered this off and making sure that preservation commissions cannot add anybody to the local register to undergo design review without consent. Anybody that was already on the local register, that's basically been grandfathered in, but you can't, no new doing that for anybody who may, any community that may be doing that. But one of the exceptions is a local historic district. So you can still do that, you know, your simple majority, the majority of property owners or whatever. That's the only time now that a property owner could find themselves on a register without having explicitly said yes to it because the law does still allow for that vote. But you still just... I think it needs to be... I think it needs to be through a... a CLG is is able to to do that but it's that's why it's really important now that we are and part of the reason I've been pushing this with the state attorney general's office is there are a lot of communities who think they have a local register and they or or a local district or something's on the local register and they don't really because they don't have any evidence or they didn't actually follow what's in their ordinance to create that and that makes everybody vulnerable especially now when we have laws that specifically say right like they're talking about the local register that you for a local district right that's specific language so yeah that makes sense thank you so much thank you any other questions i have a question yes for the clg grant application

And you apply for multiple projects in one application.

Probably wouldn't, Brittany. I mean, other than, like, a survey and sending people to places or something like that. But, like, not necessarily, like, a survey and another survey or a survey and a, you know, a big project. Mainly because we have a limited amount that is supposed to be divided kind of, you know, fairly amongst all the CLGs. I mean... I'm not saying you can't do that. I mean, the likelihood of getting funded for both would be pretty low. Unless, I don't know that, you know what, sometimes we've had years where we don't have enough because we, by federal, the federal preservation law, our DAP has to give out 10% of all the money we get from the National Park Service to the CLGs for these grants. And a few times in the past, we haven't given out that 10%. So we're scrambling to do that. And then other years, we've got, you know, communities, there's $100,000 ask over what we have to give. I mean, so. You can, I mean, you can put your hat in the ring if you want to. I mean, there's nothing saying you can't.

If we were to combine 2 things in 1 application, like doing a survey and also places, would that be weighted holistically? Or would the 2 parts be evaluated separately and independent of each other?

Especially if it's just if it's places, it would be it. It's just one thing. Yeah, it's just a... And what you do when you turn in an application for a CLG grant, because I'm the person that gets to oversee these, and I know that it can be a nightmare, like, applying for grants. And it's just so much hoop jumping and stuff. Like, what we really want is, you know, what do you want? How much do you... What do you want to do? Like, how much do you need? You know, we're not trying to trip you up. Like, we really are trying to get everybody funded. If we can, anybody that has the best kind of, like, that's done some background is going to have a better shot at getting it, right? Like, showing that, you know, if you want to do a survey that you've done some, like, background research about, like, where you might want to survey or, like, what do you want to do with the survey? Like, you know, saying, we want to survey so that... next year or in a future grant round, we may apply for a grant to do a local historic district or a national register district. That's kind of so it doesn't just sit on a shelf.

That's almost exactly, I think, our use case. Is there, so when we're talking about like a survey and how much that would cost, you know, for one of the neighborhoods that we're discussing, that was last done in 91, are there resources provided by DAP, you know, like surveyors that you recommend using?

Yes, I have a list. As a state agency, we cannot say use it, but I've got a list of the Washington Trust and Historic Seattle both hold lists of the main players and the consultants that do that kind of work. And then if it's somebody that I don't know, I just need a copy of their kind of resume and stuff to make sure that they meet the federal standards for architectural history. so you're not just you know some anybody's coming and saying that they know how to do the work we want you to have quality work you give me ten thousand dollars awesome thank you Sure, thanks. And if you're thinking about applying for a grant, I'm really happy to read drafts or anything like that. I'm really happy to help you figure out where you might just kind of as a general kind of stab at where you might want to survey or that kind of thing. I used to consult in Idaho. I used to do that work in Idaho, so I also have that experience. background and just, you know, from what I do, I can help guide you pretty far with that. And then, you know, there's a point where you probably want to reach out to a couple consultants and just get some ballpark figures. Great questions. Yeah.

Anybody else? I think the No questions in the room. OK. OK.

Thank you, Michelle. Thanks, everybody. I'll see you in a few weeks. All right.

Thank you so much.

Bye. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Bye. Bye.

Cool. OK. So on to the next item on the agenda, presentations from University of Washington students. I think, Erica, is that you?

Yeah, that's me.

Wonderful. Thanks so much for coming to the meeting.

Oh, thank you for having me.

We're excited to hear from you. So the floor is yours.

Okay. Should I just share my screen?

Yep.

Are you guys able to see it?

Yes, we are.

Hi, my name is Erica and I'm a master's of architecture student at the University of Washington. So I'm in my second year of my three year program. So I have one more year left. And this presentation was actually something that I did for a class that I took last quarter with Holly Taylor. I'm not sure if you guys know her, but The class was called Implementation and Preservation Planning. And basically the project that I ended up doing was inspired from Greg. And it basically just examines how former automotive buildings along the historic transportation corridors in Olympia have been repurposed over time and how these roadside structures can still contribute to local identity, memory, and preservation efforts. So yeah, I'll just start now. So just some background and historic context. In the early 20th century, the rise of automobile culture shaped Olympia's commercial landscape. Gas stations and garages developed along major corridors like 4th Avenue East and State Avenue Northeast, which were connected to the historic Pacific Highway. However, the construction of Interstate 5 redirected traffic away from downtown, which caused many automotive buildings to lose their original function. Rather than these buildings being demolished, several were adaptively reused for small businesses, restaurants, and retail spaces. This survey that I did basically documented six surviving examples and evaluated their historic significance. Just going into what the topology is and just talking a little bit more about adaptive reuse. This slide basically outlines common gas station architectural types and the ways they have been adapted over time. Early stations often resembled small houses or simple box-like commercial buildings. while later stations adopted modernist forms with flat roofs and canopies. Some key defining features included service bays, roof lines, and circulation patterns designed around automobiles. In Olympia, many of these buildings have been reused as coffee stands, specialty shops, and small commercial spaces. Even with alterations such as enclosed bays or new signage, Many of them still retain their roadside character and continue functioning as neighborhood landmarks in Olympia. Going into the methodology that I used, it was a combination of fieldwork, archival research, and preservation evaluation. So it's interesting because she talked a lot about what I did for my methodology before in her presentation. But I conducted windshield surveys along Olympia's historic automotive motive corridors and documented existing conditions through site visits and photography. I then used archival sources such as wizard records, assessor data, historic surveys, and imagery to identify the construction dates and the historic uses before what it is now. And I also evaluated each property using criteria from the Olympia Municipal Code, the National Register of Historic Places, and the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, which focused on integrity, historic associations, and contribution to the streetscape of Olympia. So just going into the first one that I looked at is Filling Station Espresso. Between the break and the last quarter and now, I heard that they repainted Filling Station Espresso. So I got a new picture of it from Greg, thankfully. So I was able to update my presentation. But you can see what it is now in Olympia and what it was, I guess, a couple months ago before they repainted. But this stand was originally built in 1920 as Harp's super service station, and today it functions as a coffee stand while still retaining much of its original roadside orientation and the compact footprint. The building clearly expresses its history as a fueling stop, with most changes limited to exterior modifications, as you can see from the pictures. And because of its high integrity and recognizable historic form, it is a strong candidate for local recognition. And its continued use also demonstrates how adaptive reuse can preserve community familiarity while supporting contemporary commercial activity. When I visited, I know that a lot of people were like, oh, we can go get coffee at the filling station espresso. So I know it's like a pretty popular spot in Olympia. Going on to the second one, it's the R.L. Ray Violin Shop. This was also a former gas station built in 1921 as the whole service station, and now it's transformed into the violin shop. And although the interior was significantly modified to accommodate the lesson rooms, workshops, and the storage of the violin shop, the building still retains the orientation and circulation pattern of a gas station. And one interesting detail is that the station was originally attached to a residence where the owner once lived, and they ended up blocking it off now, but it used to be connected. And this also demonstrates how adaptive reuse can support highly specialized businesses while maintaining key aspects of the historic automotive structure. Third, going into Bernie's Garage, it was constructed in 1947 for automotive repair and it still retains many features. Based on the wizard documentation that I found, the property may be able to qualify for a National Register of Historic Places due to the integrity and continuity of function. But the building, when I visited, appeared to be mostly inactive and used for storage. And its surviving structural configuration and garage elements make it an important example of mid-century automotive architecture in Olympia, even though it's not being used right now, from what I know. And then going on to the Chevrolet dealership. This was the former Chevrolet dealership, which was designed in 1925. and it originally functioned as a showroom and service facility. So the building retains significant architectural features, including the Gothic terracotta parapet, the storefront rhythm, and his horizontal massing. But over time and over different owners, the structure shifted from auto dealership to retail and then restaurant. At least the last I checked, it was being leased out or sold. So now it's not a restaurant anymore, but it used to be. And the building also maintains high integrity. So it still remains a strong candidate for historic recognition. And it reflects how larger automotive buildings can be adapted as well. Going into the Schaefer building, it represents a slightly different type of automotive related commercial architecture. So it was built in 1927. You can see the picture on the left, what it used to be. And it was during Olympia's downtown expansion. So it supported retail and automotive services. connected to the growing commercial core, but today it continues to function as a mixed-use commercial building, so it's not auto-related anymore, but its integrity is still considered to be moderate, and it's not currently eligible for individual national register listing, but it still does contribute to the historic streetscape of Olympia. And the last one that I looked at was Fun, Junk, and Licorice Boutique and the old garage store that's next to it. This occupies a former service station dating roughly to around the 1930s and this building has been adapted into a vintage and specialty retail shop and the garage space as you can see is converted into just display and storage area. The interior has changed and it's a little definitely a lot degraded compared to the other ones, but it still retains the roadside siding and the small scale service station form of the previous gas station. And this highlights how it can still support local creative businesses while still preserving that history of the gas station. So kind of going on to my conclusion, basically it was that these former gas stations demonstrate how small-scale roadside buildings can still hold significant historical and cultural value, even though the uses have changed. Together, they reflect the development of automobile infrastructure, the transformation of the Pacific Highway corridor, and the evolution of roadside commercial architecture in Olympia. Adaptive reuse has allowed many of these structures to remain active parts of the community while preserving the defining historic features of Olympia. And by documenting and evaluating these sites, this project helps identify opportunities for future preservation before redevelopment pressures threaten Olympia. threaten their survival or their demolition. Yeah, so that was kind of basically what I researched and what the conclusion was last quarter in the class that I took. Thank you so much for having me and listening to my presentation.

That's super cool. I have a question, if that's okay.

Yeah.

You said the filling station espresso was featured in a video game. Do you know which game?

So I'm guessing it's like Grand Theft Auto. That's kind of my guess because Greg and I ended up talking to the worker there and she was like, oh, this filling station, this area actually is featured in a video game. And I'm kind of guessing that's what it is because the game is kind of like you just drive around and... so that was kind of my guess i couldn't look i couldn't find it online but i think that is where it would be if i had to guess that's super cool yeah it's a rad building yeah it's really cool so i was like really surprised when i heard that it was repainted again because yeah sorry

No, no, you're good. I had one additional question that I'm just wondering if you have any perspective on. I think it's so cool to see the way that all of these different kind of automotive structures have been reused in, you know, different and kind of unique ways. And I'm curious if you have a sense, like, outside of the Olympia context, is this type of adaptive reuse specifically for like old gas stations? Is that something that you see a lot either across the country or like up and down the old Pacific Highway? Like, how common is that adaptive reuse specifically for those types of like auto structures?

So the reason why I was attracted to this topic specifically was because of the industrial part of adaptive reuse. So it kind of looking into not just gas stations, but the overall industrial structure. So it could be like factories or manufacturing warehouses. But yeah i'm not entirely sure but i know olympia had a lot and that's why it was something that i ended up researching um because the city itself just had a lot of it um but i don't really see a lot actually of gas stations being um reused like that so it's really interesting how kind of the small businesses in olympia do it pretty well and it's still standing and it's yeah so yeah i guess that's just my answer i think i've seen a lot of industrial reuse but not specifically gas station reuse yeah oh thank you yeah it's super interesting it's really cool work thank you um i'd love to ask a question on sort of the um educational side of your work and can you imagine um

presenting this, or what are the ways in which you could imagine presenting your work publicly? Because I think that there are, there's lots of interest, I think, in industrial reuse or reuse in general in Olympia. And this is a pretty cool story, I think.

Yeah, I would be open to it for sure. If the opportunity presents, I think definitely I would be interested. I'm doing a certificate in historic preservation, and that's how I ended up taking this class as well. And I'll actually be going to Scandinavia this summer to study maritime industrial reuse sites, which is very exciting. And I'm hoping that it might lead to a possible thesis topic for next year. So yeah, I would definitely be interested in doing that.

maybe even a thesis topic of old automobile shops along the Pacific Highway.

Maybe. I'm not entirely sure specifically what I will be doing, but I do want it to be kind of related to those.

In the map that you show, it's really interesting that they're kind of located close together, right? Which I can imagine being part of like a walking tour. And even though that's kind of ironic to have a walking tour with gas stations, but mobility, the theme could be mobility. But yeah, you know, in Seattle and other places, there's these sort of known industrial or automobile roads that this seems to fit, could fit with it.

Yeah, we've all built within seven years of each other, which is really cool. Two the same year. 1921, 1925.

So thank you for sharing this. It's really interesting.

Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay. Cool. So next item on the agenda is a briefing on the Sandman tugboat. Aaron, I would love to turn it over to you. And I think we're all really excited to hear what you're going to share with us.

Thank you guys so much. And thanks for having me. And I'll have Brittany. She said she may be able to share her screen as to our presentation here. I did want to comment really quickly to Erica if she's still in the meeting. Oh, that's too bad. I had it. There's a site that's too bad.

We can send her your message if you want to say it. I'll relay it.

Sure. Well, it was really just a point of sort of interest in some of the stuff she was talking about. There's some great places down in Richmond, California, with the Henry Ford plant down there that are I think it would be very interesting studies for her because they're pretty breathtaking. And it's this beautiful example of historic reuse where they've preserved the entirety of the building, but also allowed businesses to go in there and have offices and things like that. It's pretty magnificent, but I digress. So today we're here to discuss or I'm here to discuss the Future of the Sandman. A little bit of introduction on me. My name is Aaron LaPointe. I'm the executive director of the Historic Maritime Foundation. Our organization, really brief on our organization. We Our whole mission is to preserve historic workboats in the Puget Sound and use them as an educational platform for at-risk youth and young adults. So we have a fleet of four vessels, increasing to five at the end of next week, that are all operational historic tugboats Pretty much local to the Puget Sound, aside from one. So a while ago, a long time ago, probably not that long, but about a year and a half ago, the port approached me and asked if I would be interested in saving Sandman. You know, after some inspection of the vessel, we decided that that was definitely not something that was feasible for us to do. And we let the port know that, you know, Approximate cost to save this boat is about, you know, half a million dollars or now greater as it has sat another year and deteriorate even further. So then the conversation shifted from, okay, it's not going to be saved. They held an auction. Nobody bit on the boat, of course. And so unfortunately, Sandman won't meet its demise. So we were tasked with, we presented a proposal to the port as to just basically outline some ideas as to what can be done. And that sort of just morphed into this contract that we now hold with the port where Historic Maritime and myself I'm the project manager of Sandman and it's preserving its historical significance, even though the vessel will exist no more. Brittany, we can scroll down if you would please to the next page. So the overview is pretty simple. You know, it's no doubt about it. The port has decided that this has sat on their property for a long time and accrued, I believe now almost $40,000 in unpaid payments. yard fees. So they've had a massive loss in revenue. And so the boat is going to meet its demise. And the port has decided to do, in my opinion, what is a really noble thing, which a lot of ports in Puget Sound do not do this. I want to make that abundantly clear. This is not something that port towns and does this is not something that ever does this is not something that anybody ever talks about. Is when we crush up a vessel that is very historically significant, how do we preserve the history of that, so I give props to the port and for willing to engage in that conversation. So. That was really the topic of how do we do this and what needs to be done and what needs to be saved. So as we go through this first page here, I kind of want to spare one of the details of the nitty gritty of it. However, the mission truly now is all about what can we do to save pieces of the boat? And we start to look at them as artifacts. And even beyond that, is there some sort of thing that we can do to archaeologically preserve the boat in a digital format? And we came to the conclusion that we can do all these things. It's all feasible. It just takes time and effort and not much money. We can do it for very little. So... This proposal you're seeing is sort of the preemptive, you know, here's what we can do. And now, as I said before, we've already begun on some of these. So, for example, when we talk about preserving the vessel archaeologically and creating digital 3D renderings of it and basically reverse engineering the drawings of the vessel, which are really crucial for us to keep forever. That has actually already been completed. Well, I say that, but it's about 90% complete. The archeological team and I have already gone to the vessel and they have already spent two days, day and a half to two days taking their measurements and doing everything that they need to do. This archeological team is ran by a gentleman named Nat Howe. He is the director of the Puget Sound Maritime Historical Society in Washington, or in Seattle rather. Um, this is totally in his wheelhouse. Um, it's something that he did with the Wawona in Seattle and he's done with the Arthur Foss and the equator up in Everett. They do this very frequently and they're very good at it. Um, the theory is, is that as they are able to create these drawings and these renderings that we will digitally be able to share them with the public forever. whether that be in a digital display that's someplace that the public can see it or online. It will be published and available on our website. I think there will be a link from the port's website as well. Beyond that, as far as the artifacts go, I've already, at the same time, while they were working on that, myself and a technical advisor went through and made a list of everything on the boat that can be Removed and archived and distributed. When we say distributed, it's crucial to me that none of Sandman's artifacts, down to even the smallest nut and bolt, I don't really care, Do not fall into the hands of any private citizen These artifacts are going to go through a cataloging process post removal, of course They will be stored on poor property and then in applications will be submitted the application which we've already drafted and Is going public very soon? for people to entities rather, whether they're businesses or nonprofit organizations or museums or the city parks department or city hall or somebody, um, to submit an application for a piece of Sandman, uh, to be able to display, to be displayed publicly. And that is really the most important aspect of this is that whatever, wherever the artifact goes, it has to be displayed publicly. Um, and, um, This is why we want to limit or eliminate the factor of, thank you, Brittany, the risk of any of these artifacts falling into private hands and ending up in someone's garage or something for all of eternity, or being lost or thrown away. Further than that, we have proposed that the wheelhouse of Sandman Just the wheelhouse specifically, not the entire deck house because I think that would be too costly and too invasive. But just the wheelhouse of Sandman Bee removed and made as a interactive historical display for children and families to enjoy. There's some discussion as to whether or not that should be mobile or not. Our proposal is that we do make it mobile and we put it on a trailer. that can be towed around to any of the historic maritime festivals that we go to throughout the Puget Sound during the spring and summer for all of Washingtonians to learn about and enjoy the history of Sandman and its role in Olympia's history. But that primarily that exhibit will be used at, first of all, Wooden Boat Fair, which is hosted in May in Olympia. And then, of course, at Harbor Days in the late summer. I also forgot to mention that I sit on the board of the South Sound Maritime Heritage Association, and I am the dockmaster and in charge of all things vessels for Harbor Days. So we can guarantee that if this exhibit does come to fruition, that it would be at Harbor Days every year. And we've decided that we'll reach out to the Poulsbo Maritime Museum Because they have already done this with the wheelhouse of the Hayek, as you can see in the photos here. This wheelhouse of itself is not open to the public to go through, but you can kind of look through the windows and see its place at the front of their museum. My vision for ours is to make it an interactive display and so we've you know i've we've we're wanting to get some input from the hands on children's museum on what they recommend. I don't know if they're going to play a totally active role. I think their hands are full with their new expansion and they've got a bunch of other things that they're working on. But we have received a soft yes from them that they would be happy to give their advice. And we've also received a commitment from Forma Construction to help us get the wheelhouse off of the boat. We also believe that on tugboats, there's a set of winches that are placed on the bow of the boat and on the back of the boat. Primarily, the one on the back of the boat is the one that does all the work. We believe that one of these winches, if not two, should be placed somewhere in Olympia, whether it be on park property, city property, somewhere near the waterfront or near Percival Landing to pay homage to the Sandman. And it may be possible to make that somehow in conjunction with the Parthea project. I'm not sure exactly. We're open to any ideas of it. As far as the timeline for this project, the port has an extreme interest in getting this done as soon as possible. I also have an extreme interest in getting this done as soon as possible as a director of our foundation and managing five vessels, active vessels and crews and maintenance and all these things. The Sandman wasn't exactly something that I needed to have on my plate, but I volunteered for it because It's a project that it needs to be saved. It doesn't deserve to just be crushed. So in the spirit of expediency, the port wants this thing completely put to bed by the end of the summer. And around that same time is when Harbor Days happens. So at Harbor Days, we intend to have a booth sort of with a Sandman send off, so to speak, where the public can come and on small pieces of paper, write down their favorite Sandman story. Because even though I'm not from Olympia and Historic Maritime is based in Seattle, not Olympia, I am in Olympia all the time. And it seems to be that every time I interact with anybody from Olympia, they have a story about Sandman. And I believe that it's really, really crucial that somehow we let people know that their stories are important and they deserve to be shared and they deserve to be heard. Moving forward, we can scroll down here, Brittany. We've kind of gone through the archival.

Did you want to skip this page?

We can skip that page and probably go to the last page. Yeah. So this sort of talks about a point of contact. This is, like I say, this document was used as a proposal to support. The point of contact has now become me in managing the project. And basically... Here's everything that you can see that is going to be happening with the project basically my role as to what needs to get accomplished. The reason that we're talking about this before your guys's Commission today is because Sandman sits on the registry. And as I've talked at length with Brittany about, before we can remove any artifacts or even move forward with the demolition of the vessel, we really should have this thing removed at some point soon because we want to make sure that we're covering all of our bases and we're not stepping on anyone's toes. But before we presented that case of just, hey, can you remove it, it was very important to me that you guys know what's going on with the vessel and what our intentions are. And at this point, I'd love to answer any questions, I'm sure there may be some, about the project itself.

I guess one thing, I mean, it's really great to hear that the port has been such a, well, it sounds like a very good partner in trying to ensure that this work is done well. I completely believe you that there may be an outlier and an exception in their willingness to try to make sure that this is done in a way that is respectful to the historic nature of the boat. I think I guess one question that I have, which I think you kind of answered, but I just want to make sure I understand. So, you know, if there's a hope to maybe display a portion of it, whether it's the winches or something else on city property. My assumption is that that is a lengthy process to get approvals and determine where that needs to be placed. It sounds like the port is offering kind of interim storage for some of the pieces that are being retained, but is there a plan in place just to ensure that anything that would need to kind of wait for however long that process would take to play out, just to ensure that it has a place to exist and to be that safe until then?

Yeah, so thank you. Thanks, Bill. I'll kind of go over the archival or the artifact process rather. Um, I did touch on it briefly, but, um, the ports agreement really is, is that as the items are taken off of the boat, they'll have a place to be before we disperse them. And basically there will be a short bursting of disbursement. Um, sometime in August, um, is hopefully by the time we can, and there will be a small, um, committee that is forming. I'm working on forming it now. Um, to approve these applications and artifacts. And we're trying to pull on people from all different areas, whether it's historical societies, the South Sound Maritime Heritage Association, if there's museums in the area that want to partake in that. To answer your question about prolonged storage, that is a conversation, it's a question that's come up that I don't have an answer to yet, because I do believe the parks are interested in having one of the winches, it sounds like, potentially on display. I don't want to quote them on that. But I do think that they do have an interest in displaying something. But we don't have a plan currently for interim storage. I don't foresee it being a massive challenge. It's either something that historic maritime can store. For the time being, we don't have an abundance of room of storage for things. But we can make it work. Um, or it can stay on Porter city property or parks property if they have a place to put it. Um, but you're right. Um, it is probably most likely a lengthy process to get anything like that approved. Um, but we are actively working to try and find an exact answer for that question, because I expect that as other entities, whether it be the bud bay cafe or the oyster house or whatever, um, or, or maybe the Olympia aha museum. As they submit application for things they will be able to come pick up items up right away. As storage may not be as big of an issue. Well, I don't know if it's a storage issue versus, you know, a red tape issue, but Yeah, so, but we're working on finding an answer to that question.

And really quick. The idea has been floated with the parks team, but they were open to collaboration. And I think that as we know more, I'll definitely be sharing out, but I don't think that there's like a specific spot that exists that we could suggest to them that they could like, we'll need to kind of continue to brainstorm, but don't want to get everyone's hopes up that it's definitely happening for sure. It's, I think we all want it to work, but I don't want to, write a check for someone else to cash.

Yeah, I think my current proposal was if the Parthea project sees an end at any time soon, to have that, to potentially use that as a site because it's already been approved the work has already been done there. So to crudely say, to just drop an extra piece of metal artifact there with an interpretive sign would probably be the path of least resistance. But I do think that it may be beneficial for the parks department as they, it sounds like they're gonna revamp Percival Landing at some point soon or within the next few years. I think it may be great to have it there. But again, as Brittany said, all we really have at this point is an interest of collaboration.

Great. Thanks. One other question. This might be a question more for Brittany, but it sounds like the Sandman is locally listed. Do we need to go through a process that like, is there a decommissioning process or like, is there a removal process that we need to follow?

Great question. I think that Erin and I have been talking about that so much, it just sort of floated past as an assumption that everyone already knew. So, the Sandman is locally listed and as part of the process, because the Sandman will at some point no longer exist, we're going to be having the Commission host a public hearing to decide if the Sandman should come off the register. I think as part of that public hearing, Aaron would be able to demonstrate the points of damage and the disrepair to say that this absolutely is an action that must happen. And so sort of justifying the case that the vessel will be no longer, and then there'll be a vote and then that vote ultimately will conclude the action here and then it gets recommended or forwarded to city council so that they're receiving the recommendation that it's being removed from the heritage register.

Oh, thank you for explaining that process.

I have to go ahead. Oh, please.

No, no, I insist.

Okay, I was gonna say I have another education question. And we've been sort of hearing about this, this process with the Sandman for the past year or so. And so it's really exciting to see where you are now. And I really appreciate the attention that you have to trying to collect stories. And I wondered if there was any interest or thought about trying to capture oral histories of the Sandman in addition to the written kind of stories.

Yes. So, Brittany, perhaps you can remind me. You guys, I'm sorry. I meet with a lot of different groups. We had a subcommittee meeting several weeks ago. Can you share with me what subcommittee that was, Brittany?

Heritage Review Committee.

Okay. So during this presentation to the Heritage Review Committee, it was asked in that meeting that we do a video, sort of a nice, well-rounded history of Sandman in a video presentation that can be available on YouTube or on websites and things like that. And so I made the commitment right then and there that Historic Maritime would happily foot the bill for that production. And that so far includes getting some oral piece and interviewed piece from not only some people that have been involved with Sandman directly, but also trying to just gather a couple of public comments from people in the community.

I think that if there's interest from commissioners to offer some assistance toward the effort, I'm sure that we can work together to see if there's a way that we can help you at the Harbor Days booth or to be some boots on the ground to spend time engaging with folks.

I would definitely welcome that. Um, Harbor days is a very, very big event for us. Um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm sort of wrangling 20 plus volunteers and a fleet of like three or four boats there and our booth. Um, so having a Sandman booth orchestrating it prior beforehand is something I'm happy to do, but to actually be present at the booth is, is going to be very difficult for me. Um, and difficult for us to spare the people to do it. Um, One thing I think is really crucial, it's been a topic from the beginning, is having a banner at the booth that sort of is, for lack of a better term, a transplant list of a graphic of Sandman and lines and points to where specific items have gone. The port has made it very clear that they want to give preference for artifacts to go, for instance, a good example is the masts on Sandman. Historic Maritime is gonna submit an application to use those masts on one of our working active boats. And the port has made it very clear that their number one priority, they wanna give preference to active working or active vessels who may be able to keep the spirit of Sandman, if you will, on the water and running.

And maybe I missed this, but did you mention that application process? Is it through the port for the distribution of?

It's twofold. I wrote the application myself. The port will publicize it where people can fill it out. And then it'll come to me directly first. And then the goal is that it will come to me and then it will be taken to... the committee, you know, the Sandman Artifact Committee to be reviewed and approved as they come in. There is not a massive abundance of artifacts available. I went through and identified, I think it was maybe 25 artifacts. That's a rough guess. I can't remember off the top of my head. So there isn't a lot to go out. But, you know, nonetheless, it should We're going to give preference in order, this order is, to active working vessels that are on the water, nonprofits, I should say before that, would be any municipality or government entity, so parks department, you know, city of Olympia, things like that. Active nonprofits, museums, and then from there, business entities or things that have shared in local history. Bud Bay Cafe does a really great job of displaying some of their working waterfront history. It's really incredible. And I think that Oyster House, that is the restaurant that's right there, I believe, right near Percival Landing, where Salmon has been for so, so many years. I think they will have an interest in displaying some pieces as well.

Great. Any other additional questions for Erin?

I think actually I have a question for this group. So the next time you see Erin is likely going to be at a public hearing to have Erin do the presentation to say these are the reasons why the Sandman needs to be demolished and should therefore be removed from the register. Are there any questions that you'd like to have answered at that time so we can make sure that it's a full picture being presented With the tight timeline, I would hate to have a really big question mark get brought up at the public hearing that then we, you know, do a second one. So just so we can kind of present the full questions. Gosh, I'm getting all tongue-tied. I'd like to make sure if you've got questions that we can know to have Aaron address them ahead of time.

I think like, I think basically everything in my mind, the things that you shared today answered a lot of the questions that I would have. I mean, I think like, probably just a good understanding of like, what is the actual state of, of Sandman and why can't, why can't it be put back on the water, which I understand it, which probably costs like a million dollars in order to make that happen. And that's not feasible. And I think something, you know, just understanding that. And I think also understanding for lack of a better way of putting it, like the, the ethos behind the, putting the artifacts out there, um, to different organizations and, and what that'll actually look like in practice. I think in my opinion goes a long way to highlighting the fact that beyond doing due diligence, I think that everyone's to me seems to be going above and beyond to do this in the most respectful way possible. But I'm curious if anyone else has anything. Great.

Yeah. I think there's always room. There's, I mean, I deal with it all the time. Um, as I just read through articles and comments of, you know, boats that inevitably get crushed up in, in other yards, um, where there's, there's always a million and one ideas that the public presents and they're always upset about things that have happened. Um, but you know, it's usually never followed up with concrete solutions and dollars. Um, and so this to say, yeah, I mean, if, if, um, The port wouldn't be having this discussion if someone came up and said, yeah, we've got a million dollars and we're ready to roll on this thing. It just hasn't happened. And it's not for lack of availability or offering. I mean, the boat has been I can't remember that. I'll have to take a photo of it. But I had two things on the whole of the dates, the first dates in which it was began to be confiscated by the port. And it's well over a year ago. And so it's definitely had time. But in the public hearing, I'll make sure I actually have, um, I'm planning another trip down to Olympia. It's a pretty good distance for me. Um, um, about three hours, but, um, I will be down in Olympia in the next couple of weeks and I'll go through again and take actual photographs, um, of the damage and just put that on display much better. Um, I think it's, you know, picture says a thousand words. So we'll make it very clear as to why this thing is, is, is beyond repair because it's one thing for me to say that, but I hate to say, I try to not tell people that I'm an expert in this field of wooden boat preservation, but you know I do it every day. And but it still needs to be seen. It still needs to be seen. So I'm happy to do that. And I'll, I will create an actual presentation if you guys see it fit. I think I do for a different presentation to be presented at the public hearing to showcase the current state and what our plans are.

I guess one question that I have, which I don't know if it's an ill-formed question or not, but I'll ask it anyways. My understanding is that Sandman is incredibly important to the cultural history and maritime history of Olympia. A lot of people seem to have very strong attachments to it. I think my question is essentially, do you need anything from the Heritage Commission in terms of helping to navigate the transition from this being a boat that people see as a full boat to it being, you know, the artifacts that will be left behind. Like, is there something that the commission can do to kind of, I don't want to say like smooth things over is not the way that I mean it, but, but I know that people will probably be upset. And I think my question is like, how can we, How can we help you make it clear that all the effort that could be done to put this thing back in the water was done, and it just isn't possible?

Yeah, I actually really appreciate that question a lot because a lot of times the biggest thing that we deal with is obviously the media. And while the media so far has written great articles and factual articles, of course, but sometimes it's always the headlines that are really grabby and people love to I think a lot of times that's the part that gets glazed over is actually getting into the article and looking at the details. But as this expands and moves forward, I think it's just really important that, um, if we can come together as, um, as organizations, whether it's a commission, um, the subcommittee is already, you know, sort of agreed to this and they understand this project. Um, that's really the best case scenario that can happen. Um, and, and, and at the public hearing, obviously, you know, I'm going to ask for an approval on this, um, that it be removed from the registry because that is the next step for us that it can, we can finally begin removing things. Um, and the port can see some progress happening. Um, but I think to be honest, I, I, I think that the public is, is, is, um, As unfortunate as it is, it's just a piece of medicine that has to be taken. And again, it's just because there hasn't been somebody yet or there isn't going to be anybody that has just come up and said, yeah, we're going to we're going to give you the million bucks. And not only that, but, you know, we've worked with. I think it's just also a presence of mind. So to have the commission know that this is happening and know that we've had these conversations is really important too. It's the same reason that we've worked with, you know, the Maritime Heritage Area, South Sound Maritime is a part of this conversation. So it's really just letting people know and I don't need, you know, I don't need Bill out there with a wrench to help come take things off the boat, but just to have the commission say, yes, we're aware of this plan and we think it's a good plan. And so obviously the public hearing will occur at some point. And like I said before, it's obvious that I'm going to ask that you guys see this project, help it move forward. But that's really pretty much it. I think it's just, trying to avoid as many roadblocks and barriers as we can. For one, because like we've said before, the boat is currently sitting in a large vessel spot in the port yard where that rent that they could be receiving, it's really opportunity funds that they're missing out on. but they've also been owed $40,000 or 30, $30,000 or something like that. I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head. Um, but every month it's there, it's, it goes up, um, where they can, they could have Sandman gone and, and make room for maybe a different historic vessel or another, another vessel that is in need of repair, um, beyond the opportunity costs. But it's, it's, trust me, take it from me. It's hard enough getting a large, um, boat hauled out anywhere in the Puget Sound. And, you know, the Port of Olympia has that capability. So we'd like to give that spot back to them. Thanks.

We actually have a question in the room.

Yeah, thank you, Erin, for this presentation. My name is Greg Griffith with the Olympian Historical Society.

Hi, Greg.

I don't know where I'm going with this question, I always like to think that if you, you lose one battle to try to be proactive, to, um, to set the stage for a victory preservation. So I guess my question is, uh, you, it sounds like you are, um, are very much aware about what's, um, about the maritime heritage throughout Puget Sound. Are there any, are there any, um, other vessels say in the region that, um, are say at a critical juncture in terms of their either demise or preservation that say the maritime community could seize upon as a way to achieve a victory in maritime preservation? I know you mentioned the equator, but are there any others that maybe other vessels that could be where we could win a battle instead of

be talking about the the carcass yeah i actually um tell me it's greg right um greg i really appreciate that question because the biggest thing that um many of the directors of non-profit maritime organizations we get together and we A lot of them are friends of mine, and it's always the same thing. The public is upset about something, but like I said before, it usually doesn't manifest into open checkbooks or volunteer hours as much as we would like it to. Because the math works. If everyone in Olympia gave five bucks or something to the Sandman Project, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that there are several vessels in the Puget Sound that are headed towards potentially similar futures. And the other simple fact of it is that they will not be afforded the same honor that Sandman is going to be afforded because their ports are not as proactive as the port of Olympia. As much as I may get raked over the coals for saying that, it's just a simple truth. We have ports, I won't name any specifics, but we have ports in the Puget Sound that crush up historic vessels without any, uh, question at all. Vessels that are over a hundred years old consistently, um, that are of large stature and, and, you know, historical significance. So one that comes to mind, the biggest one is, is the tugboat Elmore that's up in, um, the Puget Sound, or I'm sorry, the port of Port Townsend. Um, that boat's been up there for about, uh, I think four or five years. I have a very deep personal connection to that boat. My grandfather was the chief engineer of Elmore for over 25 years. But even beyond that, it's I think the second oldest tugboat in the world. It was built in 1889. Or maybe it was 1890. It was 1890 it was built. And it was a part of the Klondike Gold Rush. It was a part of Washington State's Mosquito Fleet because it had all these different lives as a passenger ferry to a fish packer to then a tugboat. And then it didn't retire until the 60s. I think it was 60s or 70s. And it had burned to the waterline and then been rebuilt a couple of times. It is a true testament to just the resilience of a vessel. And the truth is, is that that boat needs very little. Well, when I say little, it needs a fraction of what Sandman would need to get back in the water and active. And there have been negotiations several times. We've looked at that boat very seriously, extremely seriously to take it on an organization, but we don't have the $300,000 or $400,000 that it would take. However, we have offered up our assistance to anyone who wants to come and do it. We will show up with volunteers, we'll show up with whatever it takes. And that offer doesn't just stand for Sandman. That offer stands for any vessel that we see needing saving or historical preservation that would provide a public benefit to the people of Washington and the communities around the Puget Sound. Um, so there's Elmore up in Port of Port Townsend. I think the, um, you know, Northwest Seaport is in need of some help with the Arthur Foss, which is the oldest tugboat in the world. Um, another Klondike Gold Rush vessel. Um, but, uh, you know, the Arthur Foss is in the water and the Northwest Seaport is a decently sized organization with name recognition and great avenues of money. Um, But there are a handful of vessels around the state that are desperate and in need, imminent need. Because one of the things that we recognize as Historic Maritime Foundation is that we have to preserve what we can because we are losing these historic vessels at an alarming rate. Just before this meeting started, I was going through the FOSS book by Michael Skelly. Nearly every single boat that's in that book is gone. I mean, it is truly astronomical about how many boats that could be around that are gone. Even Fostugs. There's a Fostug right now sitting in Sinclair Inlet in Port Orchard that is, I think, slotted to get crushed by the DNR because it just held into, sometimes it falls into the wrong hands and sometimes it just, people run out of money or they run out of effort or they run out of time. to save these vessels. And that's pretty much what the main, you know, overarching theory is, is same thing happened to Sandman. The Sandman organization ceased to exist, I think, mainly because a lot of their active members sort of aged out. They struggled to get volunteers and beyond that, they struggled to get money. And when you're an operation of one or two people who are you know, increasing in age, it's difficult to do public engagement and capital fundraising. Um, so that's the death sentence. There are several boats, Greg, that, that could really use help. But, um, anyway, uh, as far as salmon is concerned, we've reached a point where it can't be saved without massive, massive influence. And, um, And so we're doing what we can. But I would definitely enjoy to not do any more of these projects. As big of an honor as it is for me to do this for Sandman and to do this for the people of Olympia, it would make me much happier to, you know, not view them as artifacts and things that have to be archived, but rather to view them as peers that I can enjoy on the water with my fleet of vessels.

Exactly. So thank you very much, Aaron, for that.

Thank you, Greg. And I invite you to reach out to me if you have any interest in doing so.

I think, I think just generating that awareness is really important. So I was thinking maybe like our, one of our mission from the surface side is education and outreach. So I think it would be great if maybe you could do a program, maybe a program here down, maybe in conjunction with your hearing, maybe like a program outside of this hearing, but maybe in the timeframe that would inform the public about, you know, unfortunately we're gonna lose the Sandman, a local register, but gosh, you know, other communities are facing the same dilemma. How can we help them? And just sort of maybe generate that kind of awareness about don't wait till the 11th hour when it's too late to start raising money or generate awareness, but just sort of get the ball rolling now in terms of setting the stage for a victory instead of a loss.

Yes. And that's, that's what we do a lot of with historic maritime is trying to raise money just to keep them on the water and keep them going. You know, our operational budget is in the grand scheme of things, not very big, you know, it's, it's around a hundred thousand dollars, but Hey, that's, you know, that's a good chunk of change for someone to come up with on their own. But yes, I appreciate that input. And I think that that's something that Maybe we can pivot at potentially at the harbor days booth for Sandman. Maybe we can use that as a pivot point to say, yes, this is where we come with Sandman. But I like what you said about, you know, other communities facing this problem and helping them maybe avoid.

You should bring something, something from the elbow, bring the elbow down.

Yeah.

Great. Well, thank you, Aaron, so much for taking time to come and give this briefing to us. And obviously we will be part of the public hearing when that happens as well.

Yeah. My only question for you, and maybe it's a question for Brittany, is, is there a timeline? I don't know. I'm not familiar with how this works as far as timeline is concerned for the public hearing. And there must be some sort of, you know, guidelines for that.

Yeah, I can email you this offline, but it's really just making sure that we've got enough time for the public notice to. Be out and published, but it. I guess what kind of specific questions do you have? It would be a regular commission meeting normally. The 4th, Wednesday in June is our next upcoming meeting. So you and I would need to coordinate work together. this week and next week to make sure that I've got enough materials for the staff report for presentations and posting the public notice.

Great. Okay. Thank you. I don't have any specific question, but I trust that you'll reach out and we'll get it done. I would love to see it on the next meeting.

Sounds good.

Thank you guys so much for enduring this presentation, but being open-minded to this project and hopefully showing the support in the next meeting. Hopefully we'll have a public hearing. But I appreciate it. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Yeah, thanks so much for coming. We appreciate it as well. Awesome. So that, I think, includes all the business items we had for this month's meeting. So I think we're now on to reports, of which I don't know if we have any.

We do have a couple of reports, actually. So I guess we haven't had any touch points. So I'll just announce the topic. And if folks want to elaborate, feel free. The More Committee update. I think that would be the Heritage Month activities in post. The proclamation that we were able to receive from City Council earlier this month to proclaim May as Heritage Month. Do you want to pass it around out? Yes. There's a fun picture. My computer may die at any moment, but let's see if I can share this before that happens. Don't know if it'll happen actually.

Can you email us the picture? Is that the one that we took with State Council?

And it's actually in the jolt.

Oh, snap.

So there's an article that was published. Let's see.

There it is.

Wow.

Yay. So that's the news article version. But there is probably a post on social media. I think the city posts pictures from proclamations on like their Facebook or Instagram. I just don't have, I'm not logged in, I don't have a work Facebook that I, you know. But you can look it up on your personal if you'd like to see yourself in the picture. Thanks for those who showed up. And on that same note, thank you. On that same note, make sure to tune in for the last Heritage Month post happening at the beginning of the next, oh no, this was the last week. Now the month is over. So you can scroll back upwards and see the really fun posts that Melissa and Michael have put together to highlight our historic homes and programs that we offer. Are we going to get some data about how many people engaged in the post? I can get some if you have specific questions. Engagement free to post? Yeah.

Okay.

I'll ask. I mean, just for . Cool. Wow, I'm surprised my laptop didn't . The POG committee also has an update. I think that would be related to the CLG grant application and South Capitol neighborhood meet and greet and sort of sharing out how that kind of went. Bill, would you give me a little recap?

Sure. Yeah. So, um, a group of us met with the, I think it's the board for the South capital neighborhood association. Um, and Brittany presented to them about, um, kind of what would be involved in the process of registering them as a local historic district, in addition to their current status as a national historic district. Um, they had a lot of good questions. I think, um, you know, they really wanted to, to understand the process and kind of what it meant, what the implications were. And then we also talked with them a bit about the idea of pursuing a CLG grant in order to fund an updated survey for the South Capitol neighborhood because it hasn't been surveyed since I think 1991 So there are a whole slew of properties that are probably now potentially eligible to be contributing properties that weren't in the past. Um, so I think like the conversation with them is still ongoing and obviously as a community, you know, they, they have a lot to do in order to get themselves to a point of, um, making a decision about whether or not they want to be a locally listed historic district. But in terms of the CLG grant application, um, that is something that, um, I think they were broadly, I would say broadly supportive of the idea of, and it's also something that as a commission, we can kind of do, um, we can take that on the writing of the grant for that and then we can partner with them in order to make that happen. So I think that's the direction that we're moving and hoping to move in the direction of actually writing the grant application so that we can meet that June deadline.

I think in addition to the upcoming camp meeting that is June 8th, there will be topics covered that relate to how to do community engagement for specifically these types of things. So I think we have some good questions for the folks who are presenting the materials, because I'm sure that they'll be able to help guide how we can interact with the neighborhood and what the neighborhood should be doing versus what we could be doing, how to share information appropriately, et cetera. So yeah. Camp training. Yay!

Can I just ask about timeline? So camp training, only eight. But is there, Kyla, you mentioned earlier about reaching out to survey consultants to get it up or that was part of the conversation. Will that happen before camp training or afterwards?

CLG grant is due the end of June. I would assume that we would want to Do the CLG training and start some research, but not dive too deep because when Michelle is here, um, it might be a good opportunity to just get her opinion on what a strong application would be. I don't know how strong the application is to resurvey an already surveyed area. Um, so if that's, if it's hiring a specific type of person to do a specific type of work, the price might be different.

Um, yeah, it's not gonna take long to like write a grant, like for the pod, what there's like three of us. Like, that would take me an evening. I've looked at the application form. It's not particularly complex. And if we have all of the information provided by Michelle, then we're all set.

So the idea of just do the survey, use the grant to just do the survey. And also places.

I think sending folks that are interested to places would be kind of neat.

Yeah, that sounds fun. Let's go. Sorry, Bill.

Oh, no, no. I agree I think the one like maybe practical consideration and somebody please push back if you disagree but I do think that like we should get a draft of the grant application together with enough time to share it with the south capital neighborhood association board just so like we're really really you know we are partnering with them and we're seeking any feedback that they might have and just make sure that they're involved in the process

So that camp training is on June 8th. That's due on the 30th. If I were to finish like a draft on the 13th, which is a Saturday, we could share that with them. We could share that amongst our group that day and then send it to them on the 14th or the 15th, and that would give them more than sufficient time, I think, for comments because the 19th is a holiday. And so, if we got it back that weekend, then we can finish it off the next week, the week of the 22nd through 26.

I'm good to me.

Cool.

I appreciate that you had the arbitrary dates aren't like, you plan that out.

Yeah, I like having accountable deadlines for myself.

yeah me too cool um any other reports okay then are there any other topics no in that case would anyone want to make a motion to adjourn adjourn the meeting i move to adjourn i will second that if i need to

Thank you. Great.

In that case, I believe we are adjourned at 728 p.m. Awesome. Yay.

And Bill, do you want to speak for a second?

Yeah, sure.

Are we in trouble? No. Since Greg is here, I think this would be a really neat opportunity to just set up a little connection. Bill as the chair and Michael as the vice chair. Let me turn off the meetings so that this is not Greg.

How are you doing, Melissa? Thank you.