Planning & Community Design Commission - Regular Meeting

Petrae Powell, I'm here. Felicia Ford. Present. Laura Ragsdale.

Present.

Thank you very much. We also have Carlos Trejo, Director, Don Doty, Senior Planner, and our council member, Liaison Kate Pishon-Hellman. Welcome. Welcome, everybody. I'm just gonna go over sort of operating procedures real quick, and then we'll get into the agenda items. We follow the agenda. There should be copies in the back. We don't necessarily go in order, but we usually do. We'll start off with public comments next. These are for comments related to items not otherwise on the agenda. After that, we'll go through each of the new business items. And typically the way that it works is that Carlos and his team will give us a report, we'll ask some questions, and then we may bring the petitioner up to talk a little bit and then open it up to public comments after that. If the petitioner or public comments are being made, we ask that comments be kept to three minutes or less, just to be respectful of everybody's time. Looks like we do have some people on Zoom. So for the Zoom folks, when it comes time, if you want to speak, if you would raise your hand using the zoom button to raise your hand, then Carlos will bring you over as a panelist and you'll be able to talk. We ask that you have your camera on so we can see you. And whether you're on zoom or in person, we also ask that if you're going to speak, you say your name and your address. I miss anything, Carlos? Okay, great. Before we get to public comments, any announcements? no sir all right great uh then we'll go straight to public comments anybody have any comments on anything not on the agenda anybody online no okay great then we will move on to 3a which is 9091 olive crossing suite 100 the brass tap carlos

Chairman, you have a petition for design review as part of the MU Gateway District. This is for the Olive Crossing development project. In there, this is for Lot 3, which is the 11,000-square-foot retail building located at the northeastern corner right by the I-170 ramps. The building space, which has the brass tap as a tenant, has an outdoor... seating area. That seating area is on city right of way that we acquired through MoDOT and then provided to the developer to incorporate into the development in there. And the original conceptual plan showed that they would have some outdoor seating and a canopy in place of theirs. So the way the process works in the district, you have a master plan that master plan showed the location and the placement of the canopy. So that's already been authorized. But before they can apply for permits, they have to go before the commission for design review. It's only reviewed by the commission and the design review. The commission has up to 45 days to set a recommendation and. The petitioner then has a short window, I think it's six months, to apply for the building permits and commence construction in that process. So this allows for the phasing in of improvements in developments like the Gateway in that process. As you can see, Lot 3 is complete. Petitioner has submitted a canopy enclosure that you see there on the left side of your slides. They had also submitted some revisions to illustrate the canopy without the window enclosure. So this would be more for a different climate set and then an open area for a different type of climate set. And you see the two different type of elevations. I have both the operators of the brass tap here, along with the developer for the gateway to answer any specific questions there. So again, the key thing is, again, this is already authorized through the master plan that there would be some element of a canopy on the grounds. What you're doing is the design review or the architectural aesthetic review for that. carlos what material um are the posts and the the roof made out of i'll let the petitioner answer that they got the you have the specifications in the packet but i think the to get the the right terms and names okay that's okay anybody else have questions for carlos the the canopy it just it is the it did the

Did the master plan give a dimension for the canopy? And did it mention for outdoor seating or enclosed seating? Is enclosed seating okay? Because it feels like it's just making a bigger door, you know. So I'm just wondering if the canopy, if there's any restrictions in the actual master plan about the canopy.

No, the master plan did not go into the detail of whether that was going to be closed or open. I know during the review process of the brass tap, they talked about trying to have a seasonal enclosure as part of the development. But at that time, they weren't submitting for that aspect.

Okay. Tim, anything? I think we should let the petitioner answer those.

Okay, great. Would anybody from the petitioner like to come up and talk a little bit? When you come up, move the microphone up to your face and make sure you hit the button so the red light comes on. Don't forget to say your name and address. And then just tell us a little bit about the candidate.

My name is Kush, Kush Patel.

This is Prathi Patel.

And our landlord, Greg Yowitz. And you said the address of our site? Yeah. 9091 Olive Crossing, Suite 100, Olivet, Missouri.

Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about the canopy? I'm interested in materials and some of the other commission members might have some questions too.

Yeah, sure. So we were thinking an all season canopy, something we can use year round. So during the winter, about two, three months of the year, there's walls that go up and that will keep the heat inside of it. There's heaters that are going to be installed in the ceiling. So it's temperature controlled. And then for the remaining nine, 10 months of the year, those walls come out, they go into storage. So it's fully open as you can see there. It's made of as full metal framing. So I got this picture here on if you guys can see that from here. So it's very sturdy. It's made of a weatherproof, very high quality black fabric. It's designed to last 1015 years. Do you want to add anything?

Is the roof metal then?

It's a metal frame. It is fully metal, but it's covered in black vinyl fabric. So it looks good.

The black vinyl fabric on top that comes off during the summer months and it's just metal or that's always on? That's always on. Okay.

So this is a big projection awning that comes out from the roof, basically. With the metal, of course, that frame and it's all engineered and everything to stay. Okay. In my opinion, that's going to get dirty eventually. It's still a big awning. And bird poop, whatever is on there, is going to. And then you put the walls on. It's a tent. It's a nice, nice, nice tent. And you don't see that very many places anymore. There's ways to dress it up. There's ways with Lawrence that you can do things. You can build a wall around it and then put, you know, put a metal roof, and then put panels on there. There's other things you could do. I personally do not think this is nice enough for all that for the corner of all that. Then to have those panels up for two to three months a year, that's the first thing they see when they come into all that. There's our sign, hopefully, and then that. And it's a gorgeous restaurant, gorgeous everything. I've been in it. It's great. I just don't think that's the first thing people should see.

Anybody want to add to that?

I was less bothered by it when it wasn't in the pictures of it where it's not enclosed. I guess it's seemingly disappears a little bit more, but the size of it seems to cover so much of the building. And here we, you know, went through, you know, a fairly arduous process to get the building to be nice looking. And now we're just covering up with a tarp essentially from, you know, the roadway and what people will see. Um, I assume the sign is, would be above that on the wood paneling. Um, Yeah, I'm not crazy about the enclosed, the enclosure. And so I'm, I'm struggling about this because I, restaurants do it here. I, you know, I've seen it, you know, not here, but in St. Louis, you see those and they're not particularly attractive. I, yeah, I, I'm less opposed to just the awning itself without the enclosure. and other ways to dress it up. So the building isn't lost in the blackness of it all.

So I just want to point out a couple thoughts. Number one is while the canopy, we'll talk about the top first in the nice months of the year when it's open, right? So yes, the canopy is fabric. It could get dirty and they clean it. However, the patio itself sits almost five feet above the road bed and then the roof of the canopy another 12 feet at least above that so we're talking about the the likelihood of being able to see the top of it i mean you can see the top of the canopy in these shots right oops sorry but if you look for example in the bottom left corner of what carlos has on the screen you're actually, this perspective is not at road grade. This perspective is at least four and a half to five feet above road grade. So while the top can get dirty, right, I don't know who's going, there may be a few cars that might be able to see it for a brief second coming over the highway. Second thing I want to point out is canopy structures like this, in some cases left up with the walls all year round, exist at Penno Soul Food in Clayton. Um, one somewhat similar to this exists at, um, uh, Brick Tops in, in Frontenac. And again, what the Patels are talking about doing is leaving it up like it is on the screen upwards of nine months a year and closing it when the weather's bad. You'll see, as you can see, and it's hard to, is it Carlos, is there a way to blow up that top left image to make it fill the screen? Mm-hmm. So what you see when you drive by is the activity of the people, the seating, the TVs, and the fans. And yes, in the winter, so that we can have people eat out, they can have people eat outside, they enclose it. And then when the weather turns nice, they take it back down. Is it a metal structure? It's a metal skeleton with a fabric top, right? But I would argue that, you know, even Fallon's pergola, which is all wood, They've had to keep retreating that over the last 12 years that it's been there. Everything weathers. And to your concern about the building, one thing about this area that they're putting the canopy structure next to, it's an ephos wall. So the nice part, if you will, which is the wood... Nichiha above that is fully visible, has a sign actually applied to it. But the part that's being hidden, so to speak, is Windows and Ephus or whatever the brand is that we use there. So, you know, again, there's just obviously developer perspective. But I just want to take into context the elevations of the roads. And, you know, most people are not hovering at 20 feet in the air above the canopy.

And so, and I agree with the dirtiness of it. If it was a three-foot awning where you're used to seeing it, this is a much, I don't know, how deep is this awning? 16 feet. 16 feet. This is a much bigger scope of canvas that you're going to see out there that's all black. It will weather. Black will weather. Okay. Okay.

Anybody have anything else the petitioners. Okay, we'll hear public comments once you guys have anything else you want to want to say about it. I think so. Okay.

Oh, I actually take to your question about was it contemplated for people. To sit in, you know, if it's enclosed. It was contemplated the entire thing would be covered with seating. I think the only differential is in the winter, if there was no structure, no one would sit outside. So a small amount of people in the winter will now be able to sit outside inside this thing if it's approved. The entire patio is planned for patio furniture and seating. It's just this area would then have a cover in the good months and have an enclosure in the bad months.

Yes. What was the other restaurant you mentioned? I know you mentioned Brick Tops. What was the other one?

Penno Soul Food. It's on Wydown. Or it's right off Wydown and Clayton. They have a double hip. I'm not a roofing tech guy, but it's like a double hip. It's like two columns.

Yeah, I don't know that one. I know Brick Tops one. And that has like a little stone around it, some other stuff. And it's kind of in the side of it a little bit more than as present in this. And I think... You know, we want somebody, we want this patio. I want to be clear about it. We want this patio. We want you guys to have this patio. There is no question about that. That's what we want people to look at when they're going by. What I'm worried about is the drapes and stuff like that going down that's not as nice. But yes, we want this picture right here is a great picture. If that was a metal roof, looked like it went to the building, I would say this is a no-brainer. Right.

But also, no, structurally, this is a freestanding structure, not physically attached. So the gutter overlaps because there's an issue of attaching it to the way our structure was built. So this is actually engineered to be a freestanding. It doesn't actually physically connect to the building. It butts up against it.

Okay. Well, I mean, I think my personal perspective is I'd probably like to see some alternatives to this. What's everybody else's thought on that? I agree.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay. We can talk a little bit more about it too, but we'll do public comments and then discuss a little bit.

Yeah, because... if you're going to say alternatives, it would be helpful for them to understand what kind of alternative, right? Something different is one thing, but in what sort of vein?

I would say no canvas. I would say that's definitely not on the roof, but dressing up on the sides or going to Lawrence and asking them what else they have besides this would be my guess.

You guys want to do public comment and discuss it? You want us to sit down?

You can sit down. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Any public comments? None in the audience. Anybody online? Okay. I don't think anybody online. Yeah, that's my perspective. Anybody have anything else they want to add on this turn? Otherwise, I think we'll

So I looked up the two because I didn't know the one in Clayton and it is very similar according to like looking at the photos. But if you look at like the Brick Tops one, it looks significantly nicer.

Yeah. So which can we pull those up on Google Maps so everybody knows?

Like just I mean, and I remember I've been there, but I don't know the one in Clayton. So. It just like the way it's designed, it looks.

Also, I think, you know, maybe the problem that I'm having with the laps that come down is it does look very temporary and, you know, maybe, you know, having outdoor seating with the enclosure, like the old Balaban's had in the front where it's actually windows and, you know, they would do screens in the summer and, you know, and then it would be enclosed. I mean, if hopefully your business is booming so much that you need this extra dining space, I think I'd rather see something that looked more permanent. and less temporary. So, I don't know if you, if you remember Balaban's, oh, and yeah, I think Katie's has one of those too. I don't know.

Yeah.

So, it's just my perspective.

Yeah.

Yeah, that has columns and different things on what we're talking about here.

Okay.

Shades and, you know, up on this top, the material.

Can you tell what it looks like a steal?

It looks like I would think. Okay, then, um, what somebody has anything else? Well, we can move to item. But just for some general guidance, if I understood the commission correct, was the material, especially the roof material in there, is there concern about the perimeter, to have a defined perimeter?

Our liquor license doesn't dictate that they have to have an enclosure in there, do they, for the patio? It is a... No, because...

Balance doesn't end there. But they do have an ornamental fence that runs around the perimeter. And I believe there's a lock towards the front.

I think it would be nice to have it open like that and just kind of free flowing.

I think that's a good thing. They do have a fence out there. I mean, it's around the entire patio area. Because it's elevated?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, there. Carlos, are you talking about a perimeter around this particular structure or the entire?

No, this structure, I wasn't sure in terms of, there was some discussions in there and how it applies to.

I'm here, not, if you step back and it is further away. I don't know if it makes sense to me aesthetically to have an enclosure there and then a fence so close, but I don't know. Anybody else?

I think it looks nice where it's free flowing. I think it'd be great if there's a lot of tables out there. I think it's a good thing.

And then the last question I would ask, Chairman, to give you some guidance is, I mean, in the winter season,

component part of this without two to three months is the commission comfortable with an enclosure to it or it depends uh i'm comfortable with an enclosure um i think i'm more fixated on the roof than i am on the um on the sides personally, but I'm open to the concept of it being enclosed for sure. I don't think it needs to be open all year round, if that's what you're asking.

So temporary enclosure on the side, not permanent?

Yeah, I'm open to that. I mean, you know, it's got to look good.

How many tables actually fit underneath this size? I'm just curious, how much extra seating are you getting by having it enclosed? About 60 people. 60 people? Wow, it doesn't look anywhere near that big. No, it does not. Just in the enclosure, 60 seats? I don't think that's, that can't be right. There's, I mean, from the pictures alone, I only see like three tables.

We won't be able to hear you on the recording if you don't come up to the microphone, though. Thank you, Kush.

So we already have the tables laid out to where it would be anyways with the structure. Without it, I can get you a picture of it if you would want, because it does look different in the 3D rendering. Okay. I think that would be helpful just to make sure we've got an idea of the scale here.

Sure.

It only goes out about 14 and a half feet in that process.

Matter of fact, I have a 2D bird's eye floor plan just like that with the tables laid out if you want to see that as well. I can email that to Carlos right now.

What is the current seating inside the restaurant?

86? 89?

Okay. Yeah, for next time, if you don't mind sending along something like that so we can see the seating, that would be helpful. Sure.

Thank you.

Okay. Carlos, anything else?

No. All right. Chairman, there is One hand. Nope.

I just want to make sure they have clear direction so they can talk to the people. So the direction, tell me, correct me if I'm wrong, what I'm hearing is you'd like them to look at hard surface alternatives to the roof versus the canvas, whatever the fabric we'll call it, right? Number one. Number two, yes, you're okay with temporary panels in the winter or no? Like that's what I can't, I wasn't sure where you're leaning because I'm

Sure, yeah. Well, we got differing opinions up here about that, so I can't speak for everybody. Here's what I'd say. Definitely a hardtop roof. I would like to see different options for the enclosure part as well. I personally am open to potentially having fabric on the sides. I can't speak for everyone, though, so I would recommend having at least both in case we want to go one way or the other.

Yeah. As you all know, I'm the real estate developer. They're the restaurant operator. So I'm translating like, here's what you need to tell. This is what to tell the vendors, right? So I'm just trying to help move the process along and want to understand what direction was coming so I can help with that.

I don't think we want vinyl up there all year round. I heard that clearly. Yes. Okay.

Yeah, so I'm going to explore a hard pan roof of some kind of material and look to see what options are available in the wall panels, knowing that the plan for the wall panels is a few months a year. And they'll find out and get back to you at the next meeting with what those options look like.

Perfect. Cool. Great. Thanks. Thank you. All right, great. Let's move on to item B, which is 9612 Olive Boulevard, Olivet Center, Ricks Ace Hardware. Carlos.

Chairman, the next three agenda items are going to be special permit use requests. So I want to kind of go over the process of special permits. We got at least two, if not all three requests. petitioners here and what a special permit it's a unique type of use that's authorized within an underlying district it's not permitted by right in any means but sometimes these uses have unique characteristics that warrant some additional reviews additional conditions and additional authorizations for those like you know Other agencies are involved in the process, like a restaurant. I think anywhere in the metropolitan area, you'll find that they require special permits. A lot of times that is because the county health is involved. There's mechanical items that are involved. The parking is always the hours of operation and things of that nature always come into play. So the special permit use process provides the basis for the city to determine the suitability of certain specified uses under prescribed conditions. And they're within our code. We have a section for special permit uses. And there are some general items that the city notes that need to be met. And then there are some specific items to certain kind of uses that have to also be met. Like a drive-thru restaurant usually has to have a threshold of 120,000 square feet. You can't just find a one-acre lot and assume you can put a drive-thru in. And the city has a lot of discretion in that process of denying and approving these type of uses, even if it was right adjacent to another use. Again, the characteristics, the lot, the density, the topography, the proximity of residential properties, all these things can make one location reasonable and another location unreasonable. And it's well within the city's right to do so. How you assess that is through the site plan review process. The site plan review process, we've talked about that to the commission, gives you a lot of authority because you look at how the improvements impact internally within the site, but also how they impact externally beyond the boundaries of the site. So again, noise travels, traffic travels, things of that nature. So you have quite a bit of things that you have to be cognizant of. One of the first conditions that we look at when assessing a special permit is, well, how does it help us implement our comprehensive plan? In this case, our 2024 comprehensive plan update, which our vision is to be a vibrant and unique city, strengthened by its diverse population, invigorated by its opportunities for community connection and distinguished by its dynamic sense of place. Our guiding principles for this vision is to attract businesses that respond to the needs of our resident, provide a reliable funding source for our schools and city services, and retain and grow our existing economic base. And they're pretty broad and pretty general. But each time that we assess a special permit, we go back to the comprehensive plan. We look at those principles, and then there's specific goals that are outlined, especially in the economic component of our vision. our comprehensive plan, and that is to encourage businesses to adopt environmentally sustainable business practices, to invest in Olivet's industrial parks, to utilize and apply crime prevention through environmental design principles in landscaping and development design, to increase native plantings throughout the city, and to promote strategic redevelopment and growth that is sustainable, diversified, and meets the needs of future generations and operations. So when we prepare our report and do our analysis, we look at these Specific things we take a look at that that use how that use will help fulfill these goals or what conditions can be implemented to To further these goals within that development in itself in there That Process is going to apply to the next three petition items and there be glad to answer any questions regarding special permits and And as soon as you're ready, Chairman, then we can go into the first agenda item.

Have there been any other similar grants or special permits for similar uses to this in the past? I seem to recall Olivet Lanes, didn't they used to have something similar to this at one time? Correct.

Isn't Plant Haven have the same kind of thing? Yes, we have.

So even for all these threes, we've had medical uses such as Mercy had a special permit. We had, I can't think of the previous auto detailer that was there and went on to, that was there by a special permit. And then of course we had Plant Haven when they had their seasonal guardian center and then to the most current one. Okay.

Other questions, anybody? Okay. Let's proceed, Carlos.

All right. Our first petition is going to be for 9612 Olive Boulevard. That is part of the Olivet Center. If you're familiar with the Olivet Center, it extends from what is now going to be Rick's Ace Hardware, which was the old party city, but Rick's Ace Hardware all the way west to the Dance Academy, which is another special permit use in there. The hardware store itself is a permitted use by right. It's a retail... If there is a facility or space that they want to utilize, all they need to do is apply for tenant finishes and occupancy inspections and such, which they've had. But they've also requested to have some outdoor display and storage. That triggers now the request for the storage and the display a special permit. So, again, we assess that in terms of, okay, we now have to take a look at, Does it fit within the character of the development? What conditions should be imposed? And how does it further our goals and objectives with the comprehensive plan in there? This is the existing site. We have a central liquor here that takes the western part of the building. Ace will be taking the eastern part of the building here. And in their development, they have their parking area here. They want to create an outdoor display and storage area. It will be seasonal, too, to have equipment and materials outside. It's the second row here at Middle Parking Bay and along here on the side. And then they would propose an enclosure and canopy in that area with some shelving on there. Who owns that lot? The lot is owned by LLC, primarily operated by Bianco Properties. They manage the property, but it's owned, it's like OL3BC LLC is the underlying owner. It's part of the shopping center. The shopping center property extends from Dobbs. They're also under the same ownership all the way to the Dance Academy.

Is that the question you were asking? Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Yes. Okay.

And there are actually three individual lots that exist along that space in there. And I think in your... Here you'll see the three lots, one, two, and three. But in your staff report, you'll see a... A property map that gives you that a little bit better. So it's two separate areas that are both going to have this type of canopy? The canopy would, yes, along here in this parking aisle and then along here by the wall. Okay.

So the area by the wall, is that just going to be outdoor equipment? I mean, you see that a lot with the hardware stores. So it doesn't have a top? No. So only the middle section will have a canopy.

Correct. This section here.

Okay.

And overall, their parking, I assume, because they put them all together, their parking's fine with all that?

Yes. That site was developed. At one point, the city would require 10 spots per 1,000, which is extremely high. We're now down to 3.3 per 1,000. Going back to the 020-04 Comprehensive Plan, the goal was, you know, We didn't want over parking in there. So we reduced those. This development has taken advantage by opening at least two other restaurants that wouldn't have been permitted if we wouldn't have changed the parking requirement, putting the Dance Academy in there. And then, of course, the use for that outdoor storage. So it's been a big benefit for them to open up that site and get more attention to it.

Are cars still going to be able to drive on either side of the canopied area? Yes, they would be within the footprint.

Yes.

Carlos, looking at this map or this image that's on the screen, it shows the outdoor space there on the side of the building, but the one in our packet, Exhibit C, that's in front of the building.

There is a canopy underneath here. And they do have some storage items underneath that canopy.

Okay. So they're really going to have three outdoor spaces.

Yes. But that's the existing. Right.

Okay. I just wanted to make sure that the. Okay.

Here, let me get.

I just want to make sure.

Good pickup there.

Do they have any other examples of places that they've built with the same kind of canopy on it?

I'll let them provide it. And then when we should be able to access those. Easily. So.

the petitioner is online and has their hand up okay we'll bring the petitioner on in just a moment make sure does anybody have any other questions for staff before we bring on the petitioner I'm just curious I'd like to hear from the petitioner why they're selecting that location as opposed to having the two outdoor spaces be congruent like right next to each other why they chose to separate them out that way to me it I have a concern about safety with people walking between the two locations and crossing where cars are driving and parking.

Agreed. Also like to hear from the petitioner what is going to be stored under the canopy. Okay. Let's bring on the petitioner. Reminder to the petitioner to make sure your camera is on and then also say your name and address once you can speak.

Okay, Vicki, we can see you. Okay, you can see me now? And we can hear you. Can you hear us? Okay.

All right. So, yeah, I figured it'd be easier to explain. So I did send Carlos another map, but it was probably really hard to see. So on the space in the middle of the parking lot where the garden center is going to be is just flowers, and it's actually only taking up like two-thirds of that space. So there'll still be parking – towards the road. And I just counted maybe like seven or eight of those spots are still going to be parking. So the rest of that is that green structure you see, which is just plants. The other red line he has next to the building, that's where the mulch, the bag goods go. So that's not going to be a canopy or anything. It's just going to be the bag goods. And I can get Carlos like a picture of our other stores where we show what the same structure looks like. And it's only up four months of the year. We take it down, we put it up, and we store it. So it's not going to be up year-round.

What's the rationale for having it be the middle parking strip there as opposed to the one closer to the building?

I think just because of parking, having... because there's the two handicap spots, and then I think just for customer convenience to have the parking closer to the front door. We've always kind of had them in the middle of the parking lot at our other stores. We've never had any issues.

Yeah, go ahead and say it.

And then in the front canopy, we were just going to have like in the fall, our mums and stuff there because we wouldn't have the plant structure up in the middle of the year. We would take it down in the end of June.

Okay. If the canopy is only going to take up two-thirds of one of those parking rows, would it fit into the closer parking strip and not block the handicapped spots?

You mean would it fit in the... If you push it... Yeah, the only handicapped spots, I think, are those two by the front door next to the building.

Right. Yeah. So if where Carlos is marking there, would it fit right there potentially?

Potentially, yes.

Okay. I think just to the... We got a little concerned about people walking back and forth when those are open driving lanes in the... Right. I understand.

What did Plant Haven do for their canopy? What did they do?

Did they have anything? For the new one, they built the greenhouse, the big enclosed greenhouse.

And then what did they do before that?

Before, it was a post-tent structure with no side. They would just put a perimeter, a bench perimeter around.

Because it was only up for three months a year.

Okay.

Yeah, we're typically four months, March, April, May, June.

I would definitely prefer to be in the back of the parking lot as far back as we possibly can would be my preference for any of that. Yeah. Agreed.

I agree. And I also think closer to the building so that people aren't walking between the lanes for sure.

Okay. So on the first, on the first row.

Yes.

Okay.

Because I think this parking lot, it kind of looks big here, but in actuality, when you're there and when it gets to Party City, it could be very hazardous. So definitely the further back away from the cars would be much better. And besides the fact you've got the ATM there that some people pull through just to go to that. Yeah.

There is a lot of action in that parking lot. You have jobs going crazy of the ATM. You just have party city with kids running across the thing. There was a lot going on in that parking lot. Okay.

I think in addition to the safety concerns, there's also just when you have cars in a parking lot that close to a structure, the danger that you have cars running into the structure, backing up into the structure, um, An idea that I would be interested to see if the petitioner had considered or might consider is potentially doing almost like an extension from where you have the red marked off where you said the mulch bags would be alongside the building, just extending that out or almost doing an L shape off the, what would that be, the southern side. Just, you know, as much as the spaces can kind of be all together and minimizing any potential driving through, driving by, driving into hazards.

I think the only problem I would perceive with that is if I'm wanting to pull up to the mulch to get it to my car and now you've just taken that driving lane out.

Right.

That's, I mean, that'd be the only thing that would make me hesitant to do that, but otherwise I get the point.

Okay. Other than position, anybody have any comments on the actual structure itself?

I definitely think we need to put in this that we only want three months a year that it's limited to or something like that. Okay. There are four months. I'm not, I'm not sure, but yeah.

An additional question that I have just out of curiosity is because that all of that stuff would be on the side of the building where there, there is, there are no windows, no visibility, just curious if there was thought given to security or, you know, camera monitoring or anything like that, since it won't be visible from inside the store.

We do have camera systems we put up outside and inside, so that would be on camera.

Is there a reason this couldn't be back towards the fence, like the boundary fence? Those three cars back there? Well, not there. If you scooted over west a little bit, smart guy. You know, and

Part of the reason is because when we get our semis in, they have to back up right there. I don't think they would fit. I was just down there yesterday and was kind of looking for them to back in. It'd be really hard. Got it.

Chairman, I'll note the This is what we would call legal non-conforming property. It was built before under the current regulations. We did have a conversation as they were looking to try to place that along that perimeter edge on the south end, but because of our buffer requirements, we wouldn't allow them to do that. We know that the asphalt is there, but it's two-dimensional, but we wouldn't allow them to put a three-dimensional structure that close to a residential property. Got it. A couple of other things. As they looked at the site layout, we also involved the fire marshal because while they have a full 360 access around this building, that southern part is very narrow, that alleyway, and things can get in there. They typically won't get that close to a building in the event of a fire, but they need to be within close proximity to that eastern wall. It couldn't be too far. And they could work with, you know, like if vehicles or in this case, the mulch was up against the wall, but they needed to have that access point going through. And there, so it kind of kind of limited at least what, you know, trying to do that L shape or so, because we did take a look at that component, but I need to get them to be able to go parallel as close to the building, but at least the distance of 20 feet from there. Okay. The other thing, there was a mention about other existing sites, and we can take a look on a Google aerial for that placement if I can get an address.

Anybody have other ones they want to look at? I mean, they just built one on Dorset Road. I don't know if they have one on there.

Right one.

Vicki, do you have an address of one of the other Ricks?

Well, our garden center is down now at the one in Ellisville, but there's a Westlake that they keep theirs up all year round. And that is, I think it's off Big Bend. It's the Westlake off Big Bend. It would be in... I'm trying to think of the address. Let me look. Is that Twin Oaks, I think?

Yes, Twin Oaks. Oh, it is? Is that it in the middle of the parking lot? All right.

Yeah, I see it in the middle of the parking lot, right by the entrance. And they leave that up all year.

Is that the same size as the one you're proposing?

Yeah. Yeah, it's close. No, that's a different one. That's our Ellisville one. Ours is going to be a little bigger than that.

That's two and a half spots. Yeah, that's pretty tiny.

Because in the season, we'll have a lot more plants, but

Okay, that one looked like it took up about two or three spots, two and a half or three spots. How many spots do you think?

This one will take up like where I had it on the map. It's kind of got like this kind of dirt spot there, so it takes up about one or two. It takes up about eight spots, but they're kind of going like sideways. Right. If you look up the hill, 5437 Southwest, maybe it still shows it if it's still an older picture.

Okay. Anybody else have any other questions for the petitioner? And I guess, Carlos, did we talk about all the staff concerns? Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Vicki. We appreciate it.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it. We're looking forward to being in the city. Yeah. We're looking forward to having you. All right. Thank you.

Okay. Um, any public comments? Nope. Okay. Um, all right I mean I I think I'm good with it I'd like to see it in the the closer the parking strip there towards the back but otherwise I think I'm fine with it as far as location agree on four months um for time duration for it being up I think Carlos had mentioned uh business hours I mean I've My assumption is it would just be the same business hours as ACE. I can't imagine ACE is open that late, but anybody have thoughts on business hours being different than just their standard hours? No? Okay.

There's one more would be about lighting. And just to confirm, I didn't see in the others, but there is no electrical access to the canopies, correct?

Am I still, can you hear me still?

Yes.

No, there's no lighting under the garden center, but typically, so we close at 8 Monday through Friday. Typically, people aren't really shopping out there in the dark or anything, but the parking lot lights are usually sufficient.

Okay. Okay. And then that would be one of the other things that we would add is that currently on that eastern wall, there are no wall pack lights in there. And if they do decide to put wall pack lights, that they'd be compliant with Chapter 428, meaning that they had to be cut off the fixtures facing downward. And the shopping center has probably some of the tallest light fixtures that we have, but they've been there for a long time. Not looking to get those replaced or so there might be something more in the long term. But there are, I think, two pole lights in that area, but no lights off of that wall. And I'm not opposed that they do put some lighting, but they can't be splattering just the light outward.

Okay. Okay.

anybody have anything else or would anybody like to make a motion yeah go ahead so just thinking and i don't know if it would work with the fire department but what if it was like to get it closer to the back if it would be like the first of the four spots in each of those two rows and turn it the other way and then cars would just have to make like a double loop around the two rows and instead

Well, you got sort of a dead end there, don't you? Like if you wanted to park in the parking spots in the middle.

That way you would park like in the middle. Like, I don't know. I mean, I was just trying to think of that way it's pushing it further to the back.

Yeah.

But it is, it's all about placement. And I guess like thinking about that lot and people walking across it, I just want to make sure to, yeah. Yeah.

So. Okay. Anybody like to make a motion? Nobody else has any other comments?

I'll make the motion. Should the commission consider a motion? The motion shall be in the affirmative as follows. Motion to forward a recommendation to City Council to consider authorizing a special permit use for OL3BP Associates LLC, owners of the property grounds addressed at 9600 and 9606 Olive Boulevard, to permit Ricks Ace Hardware to operate an outdoor display storage area on the east parking lot portion associated with the tenant space addressed at 9612 Olive Boulevard. And consistent with the commentary of the Commission tonight and approve the petition for the site plan Community design and concept stormwater review as illustrated in the permit plans presented to the Commission on July 2 2026. As noted in the memorandum from the Department of planning and Community development dated July 2 2026 subject to any staff conditions noted. They're in, these are attached in the report.

Okay. And just to confirm in that motion, you referenced the discussion regarding limited to four months. Yes.

Would the conditions for approval also include relocating where it is? Yes. Can this be approved? It says as illustrated in the permit plans presented.

We're amending the motion to note that it needs to be relocated to the back of that first. Yeah. parking strip there that's they just yeah her our discussion okay uh motion made and noted do i hear a second second second made carlos

Commissioner Ragsdale?

Approved.

Commissioner Spiegelglass?

Approved.

Commissioner Ford?

Approved.

Commissioner Powell? Approved. And Chairman Wallach? Approved. And the motion passes unanimously five to zero. The next step is in the process is that this will now go to the city council. The council will coordinate and host a public hearing that will probably be early August. And then they require two readings in that process. Okay, very good. Thank you, Carlos. Vicki, you have any questions? And then Vicki, could you kind of give us a timeframe of where you're at? Because I'm assuming we're going to open real soon.

Well, we're just hoping to get some more permits done by the middle end of next week. We're still hoping to do a soft opening the end of July. We're going to do our grand opening in September, Labor Day weekend. You'll all be cordially invited. The only flowers, like I said, will be mums in the fall. So nothing as far as the garden center until next year. But that's kind of where we're at right now. But we're really excited.

Likewise. All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

All right. Let's move on to item C, 10401 Bauer Boulevard, Suite B. Carlos.

Okay. Mr. Chairman, we received a petition for placing what they call an – and I had the name, but I forgot the acronym, ADSC – advanced driver assistance systems. And what they do is all these sensors on the cars, whether it's for backing up or on the rear view mirrors, they calibrate those. Uh, in there, uh, while it's considered, uh, compatible with the industrial use, because you deal with autos, there's always special regulations and concerns regarding that. So, therefore, this type of use does require a special permit, even if it's in the industrial park, the petitioners had, uh, similar auto types of uses in various buildings. And, uh, in this location also, uh. But the applications come in per tenant space. This tenant space B, which is the red circled area, is the one that they're proposing. They will have to go through the building permit process and the fire reviews to ensure that the vehicle and compatibility is all there. They're fully sprinkled in there. So then again, we go back and we take a look at the special permit process and look at what possible impacts that it could have to the surrounding. I think the recommendations we have, again, that we're listing here, is to have some type of control on the hours of operation. We're recommending 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. That's typical construction hours in there. There was no listing if there were uh, from the tenant of if they had specific hours that they were looking at. So I'm throwing the seven, seven. Uh, there are several, uh, wall pack lights out there that are, are, uh, are not cut off. Um, we'd like to get those, uh, replaced to full cutoff fixtures because they do face the, uh, residential, uh, park of Indian metals. And then their properties are further down, uh, in there, uh, not allow outdoor storage, uh, but to have designated areas for the vehicles that are awaiting repair that are not going to go in that space. Then in addition to that, again, as we look at how we can further the investments in our industrial parks, Bauer Boulevard is a private street. You're part of that. that access component, the streets are in bad shape. And we have not been able to get a coalition of property owners to get together to get things moving in there. And what we were asking is for the property owner's assistance in helping to create that coalition, get some property owners together to get improvements into that street. And we'll talk to you about some considerations that the council is gonna be having regarding assisting subdivisions in possible financing mechanisms to consider to get street improvements. And this is one of the best case scenarios to try to utilize that. Okay, great. Be glad to answer any specific questions on there. We have the owner here. There may be some representatives online.

I've got some questions for the petitioner just sort of generally, but anybody have anything for Carlos? No? Okay. In that case, coming up, name and address, please. Make sure the mic's on. No. Press the button right there.

My name is Corbin Holtzman. I live at 1 Pillsbury. I am the owner and property manager at 10401 Bauer.

Great. Can you just explain the business a little bit here about what you guys are actually doing?

Tim Yates is also on the line. I was owner and property manager. I'm going to bring him in also in the, I'm sorry, I didn't. No, you're fine.

Tim, I'm going to promote you to panelists and then if you can, we'll need your video on and then. All right, Tim, you transferred over. You just have, you're muted and your video is off. There's a video, but you're still muted.

There we go. You guys hear me okay?

Yes.

Okay. Hi, Tim.

Hi. Will you just tell us just a little bit about the business so we know what we're doing here?

So as you stated at the beginning, ADAS, calibrations, advanced driver assistance systems, what we do, it's after the cars have been repaired elsewhere. So say one of your vehicles was in an accident, it goes to a body shop, it gets repaired. We go pick that car up from the body shop, take it back to our place, make sure all the cameras, the radar models, and all the software computers are functioning as intended for the safety system on the vehicle. Does that make sense to everybody?

Yeah, it makes sense.

So we don't actually do any repairs to the vehicles. It's more technology electronics that we're calibrating after repairs have been done. Same with like a windshield replacement, that kind of stuff.

If there is some sort of deficiency, do you send it back to the repair shop to actually do the repair?

That's correct.

How many cars do you expect on the lot at one time?

We don't store cars on the lot. We go and pick the car up from whatever location that did the repairs. We bring it back. We pull it in. We do our thing. We take it back out. We don't store cars overnight. They're in and out you know, with anywhere from an hour, I'd say an hour to an hour and a half on average.

How many cars a day are you doing?

Um, that really depends on the work, you know, on the, on the shops that are doing the repairs. But, um, I would say typically at our location down South and South St. Louis County, um, we're doing, I think we're averaging about 12 cars a day.

Okay. Got it.

Okay. How about the hours of operation?

Our posted hours are 8 to 5. You know, we might be, like, this evening we were there until 6.15, but that's, you know, the extent of it. We pretty much stay in line with what the shop's hours are, the repair locations that are doing the repairs, and none of them are open usually past 5 o'clock.

Okay. So if we were to limit it to seven to seven, just give you a little latitude on both ways, that would be more than sufficient? Okay. Yes. Any concerns about fixing the exterior lighting like Carlos talked about?

Yeah, I'd bring that mine away. Yeah, go ahead. Unless you want to do it, Tim. Yeah, it sounds like we need to further our shield or angle our floodlights as they're at the parking lot, the trees, the creek. And then it is nice hearing people walk across the greenway. So we'll be sure not to shine them at night. Okay.

All right. Doesn't seem like outdoor storage is an issue. No, no. Okay. All right. Anybody have anything else for the petitioner? Anything else you guys want to tell us?

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, we appreciate it. Oh, what about the street maintenance thing you opened up working with Carlos on that?

Yeah, I think Bauer's nice, except maybe that pothole right at the beginning. Is that the one? Yeah. I, uh, no, I, I just, I actually just saw it really the other day, but yeah, get the team together and at least put a patch over there sooner than later and then find a long-term solution. Okay, good. All right.

Then I think that's it for the petitioners. Awesome.

Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

All right. I don't know if there's anybody else or the attendees. Anybody? I guess we technically do. Any public comments? Okay. All right. Seeing none, unless there's any other discussion, anybody want to make a motion?

I'll make a motion. Go ahead. Recommend for the City Council to consider authorizing a special permit used for PPM Bower LLC owners of the property grounds addressed as 10401 Bower Boulevard to permit advanced driver assistance systems to operate an indoor automotive repair facility within the tenant space addressed as 10401 Bower Boulevard Suite B and approve the petition for site plan, community design, and concept stormwater review as illustrated in the permit plans presented to the Commission on July 2nd, 2026, as noted in the memorandum from the Department of Planning and Community Development, dated July 2nd, 2026, subject to any staff conditions noted therein.

Thank you. Motion made. Do I hear a second?

Second.

Second made. Carlos.

Commissioner Ragsdale?

Approve.

Commissioner Spiegel-Glas? Approve. Commissioner Ford?

Approve.

Commissioner Powell?

Approve.

And Chairman Wallop? Approved. The motion passes unanimously, five to zero. So the next step is, this does have to go to council to meet the public hearing deadline. It'll probably be their first meeting in August, and then they do two readings in there. All right, very good.

Just a note before the petitioners leave or go offline to just invite you on July 8th to a conversation we are having with the community around neighborhood improvement districts, which is what Carlos was alluding to briefly when he was doing his introduction. So that's July 8th, 5 p.m. at Five Oaks. If you'd like to come and learn more about that for potential financing help-ish for road improvements.

July 8th, July 8th.

Yes, or maybe, Carlos, you can send an email with the information.

All right, fantastic. Okay, let's move on to item D, which is 9375 Dealman Industrial Drive, SSM Health, Cardinal Glennon Pediatric Therapy Outpatient Clinic.

Okay. Chairman, we have a special permit petition that was submitted to place what we would call medical offices in a building that's located in our light industrial district because it is a medical office and it is an industrial district. They don't necessarily are. you know, truly very compatible. So therefore, to authorize those, they go through a special permit process. So the city's kind of saying, in certain situations, medical offices may be compatible and within the district, but it just depends on the location, the character of that. This is an industrial district. The purpose of the light industrial district is for employment centers dealing with either administrative functions, light industrial warehousing, and things of that nature. So when this petition came in, it was somewhat of a concern. Not only is it a medical office kind of located within the industrial district, it's also a pediatric facility. So we kind of took a look at it, had some concerns about, you know, The idea of having a pediatric type of facility within, and I'm going to stress the industrial district in there. We have other districts that promote these type of uses and functions. So, as we continue discussions with the petitioner, it is a defined office space. They're not proposing any exterior improvements. They have adequate parking on the site, and it's not that far off a dealman. The worst case scenario is you don't want to have this type of activity that's going to be integrating with the shipping and moving of trucks and things of that nature. Again, that's what the special permit process is for. We can really close down and see if there would be any adverse impacts to the site itself. The building itself is a multi-tenant type of building. But they do have things that are a little bit more compatible with industrial users, but more on the retail side. So there's the artery, which assembles frames and puts the picture artwork together. ImageNet, which is a copy supplier, copy machine supplier, scanner, an IT type of service provider. And there's the USGS, which has... probably more operate as a warehouse spaces in the building. I've never seen any much activity.

Yeah, they have some surveyors that report there.

And then Festive Floral, which does floral arrangements and catering off-site on there. So we took a look at it. And again, there was still some concern about the compatibility of having not just a medical office, but a pediatric type of medical office in the site. But I think within the controls of the special permit process, we can... In exchange, do some improvements to the site, because if the site's going to start looking more commercial as opposed to industrial, let's start making it look more commercial. Let's enhance some of the landscaping. Look at the lighting components of this and do that in exchange in there. We've had quite a bit of investment in that corner. Carrollton Bank now has administrative functioning offices. Uh, in there, they've converted a lot of their lighting and they've added some landscaping. Uh, but we still have some big wholesalers that are that are there. Um, got the gun company charter, uh, and all that area. Um, we think they can make the space compatible. Uh, we put our. our conditions that we think are reasonable conditions to help balance that aspect of this type of use in this type of district, and then how it helps implement our goals and our comprehensive plan. So you'll see those, we're looking to establish the hours of operation, convert the exterior lighting to meet those of the Chapter 428, and to put at least some landscaping along the frontage here in this area. We have a sidewalk on this end. There are some utilities that do run in there, but there's an opportunity to put a couple of street trees and some brushes as part of that process. I'd be glad to answer any specific questions. I believe we have a representative that's still online. If they can show their hand, then we'll bring them over if there's any questions from the commission.

I have a question for you. Why does that sidewalk stop right there?

The city did the sidewalk when we took over the streets. So right here, there's a crossing. It's not striped. You can see the sidewalk comes in on one side. There's a crossing here, extends all the way to the end of the cul-de-sac, and then you just have one user there. I believe it does go underneath the tree and then stops here. Is that the question?

Yeah, I mean, I would rather I personally would rather see a sidewalk there than landscaping going down there.

Let's take a look at the streetscape real quick and. I just want to make sure I have the same. When we installed the sidewalks. We didn't place any, you know, it was on one side. So you have here on the western side, not on the east. And then there's a crossing. It looks like that there was back here where it flipped to go down this cul-de-sac. And then you see that there's nothing on here and that it. So as you get closer here, this is the site in there. So there's that sidewalk. That connects and goes around. You're saying you'd prefer to see a sidewalk that runs parallel with the road this way? What do you guys think?

I mean, I don't think there's a heavy pedestrian aspect to this area. I'd rather see landscaping, honestly. And it doesn't look like it would impair your ability to do that and have both. You know, that U-shaped area could have landscaping in it. I mean, this is a pediatric therapy facility. This is not just an average office, you know, where you're going to have kids waiting around like a regular pediatric office.

I don't know. In some ways, I'd rather not have a sidewalk there if there's going to be kids around there. I'd rather have landscaping that keeps them from jetting out into walking out into the dealment industrial court there. Although, to your point, I guess you could have landscaping on one side and then the sidewalk on the other side.

There's not a lot of people who walk that area at all. There's living in, like if you wrap around, it wraps over around That area does not get used a lot. I was one of the few people who would walk the whole area with my dog. So it never really bothered me that the sidewalk, I would just change sides or, you know, so I think like some landscaping there might, you know, but.

I'm definitely okay with it. The only reason why I say it is in my industrial area that I'm in, people walk on the side of the road all the time because they're too lazy to cross the side of the road and you know, big trucks are coming through. It's, it gets crazy. I don't know. That's, that's why I was saying that. Yeah. Yeah. You're not seeing the moms walking around with dogs or anything like that. You're seeing business people walking to go get lunch or whatever they do during the days. Yeah.

It doesn't?

No. There's nowhere to walk to go get lunch except for to walk out to Taco Bell.

I mean, there used to be a lot of people coming from this area into our neighborhood in Indian Meadows and they would walk down to the park and then walk the trails. Because you'll see a lot of people in khakis and walking back there. That's why I'm surprised to hear you say there's not a lot of people.

Well, there's nowhere to, I mean, like, walk to go get lunch other than, like, Taco Bell. I mean, they'd have to cross Olive. So then to cross Olive, they'd have to go down to the corner. And so they're not going to leave from this area.

There's a lot of walk for enjoyment and lunchtime activities. I see them go along Bruce's trail there off Dealman and because it's a really nice deep trail. And I mean, you can see when I looked at the sidewalks for the comprehensive plan, you can really see how other than crossing the street, it's a somewhat unending path of sidewalks to get from the industrial area and get them out to Dealman. you know, and so that they can get to Indian Meadow. That part, they're still resolving. Yeah, getting across there. But, you know, it's to bridge and connect people. I think we've come a long way.

Okay. Any other questions for staff?

I have another question. With this being a pediatric clinic, how much do you foresee this increasing the traffic on Dealman? Because traffic on Dealman gets a little heavy. Especially now, I mean, during the school year, it gets heavy, school buses and everything. But now going into that, to the corridor, going on to Target and Dearburgs and everything, everything's getting a lot busier. What do you, do you foresee that being a bigger issue?

Not necessarily. I mean, there would be added volume, but no different than if a regular tenant took it place in there. I don't think that the intensity of that use would be different from an intensity of like what was previously there. They had a drafting firm that was located in there, and I think they had a... Do you recall that firm out of Iowa? They had like about 10 plus or minus people that were

I don't recall the name of it.

Like ADS or something like that. Yeah. I understand, you know, the view. We keep track on, you know, since it is a county roadway, we look at the numbers. The volumes, I think, are like 13,000 per day. And, you know, a lot of it is in those peak hours that, you know, seven, eight, nine, and then of course, four, five and six. And there are two, be cognizant of that and then everything that was going on east of I-170. I mean, we did an analysis to take into consideration, you know, the traffic volumes that, you know, as how that was developing in Lookout 40 years and to look at what improvements the city should pursue to try to, you know, we're not looking to solve their problem, but to make sure our users have equal access into that. So one of them is that they extended the turning lane here at Dillman and Olive. They are working on the timing of the lights, but it was nicer now that you have at least three cars that could queue more than it was before. But again, until they get that light, signal, you know, their goal is to get that east-west on all of moving. And then we are doing two improvements, one on Dillman Industrial, and then at North Price Road, we're adding the additional right turn lanes. That should relieve some of the traffic that then would go to Dillman to get to Creve Coeur. Because that was the big pickup that if somebody was turning left to go to U City on whether it was Dillman or Price, deal with industrial, that is, if they were turning left, everybody that was going to turn right to create core was getting backed up. And then it just depends on what time of the day and how much volume of traffic is in there. Then we were cognizant that, you know, FedEx has picked up the amount of number of trucks that goes through there. And I think that, you know, If you look at McKnight and Olive, I mean, you can see how that storm sewer thing is just busted up, that they just can't do their turns there. And we brought that up to the Missouri Department of Transportation that the curb radius there is just bad. That's probably why they come back to our area. But a good question and things that we try to keep an eye on and see, and again, Uh, this construction, you know, when, when they were doing concrete and things, I mean, you would get pretty long backups and then there, there was a lot of activity going on on page, uh, for the sidewalk placements and all that. And then a couple of accidents that beard, a lot of traffic down on Gilman. Uh, and there, so we do recognize how much is going down there, but I don't think this would make make or break, you know, what was proposed. Okay. Do we want to bring the petitioner on? If the petitioner is here, they can show their hand just to make sure. I'm not sure. I have an iPhone listed, but I haven't seen any activity. Again, I'll note that right now we have somebody listed as iPhone 148. If you'd like to speak to the commission, if you can show your hand, it's usually located on the left corner of your monitor or screen or phone.

All right. uh if that is the petitioner if you wouldn't mind raising your hand at some point um i was going to ask a little bit more about the use a little bit here just to find out what was actually going to be happening inside um going through just some of the other recommendation recommended condition i think for hours of operation I'm personally fine with during standard business hours, noting in particular that, you know, kids have school and if they need to go to therapy after school, there should probably be a little leeway there for that to happen. Exterior lighting, obviously fine. Landscaping plan being submitted. Definitely would like to see that. Anybody have any other conditions?

Not so much the conditions. One of the questions that I had about this and your concern about us doing kind of a not really light industrial use here and more of a commercial use is because of the human nature of the business itself and whether that would open us up to... becoming this area in any of the facilities big enough to becoming an ice facility for the housing of men and women, children. And does this, does this open us up to, you know, inconsistency in our thought process about that? That's the only concern I have about the use itself is whether, because it's a human resource, you know, medical facility for children, whether that makes it seem like we're okay with those types of uses. And so that's my only concern. I realize it's out of left field, so, but. It was raised by Carlos.

I mean, for me, I think the sort of sharp distinctions there is that nobody's staying there, right? They're going for therapy and they're leaving. Right.

That's the hope. But I mean, just us going into a commercial use showing that we're open to other uses than just light industrial. I think that's just the gist. That's all. I mean, I realize that we're not facing that right now, but that doesn't mean we won't face it since we do have these big buildings back there.

In some ways, to me, the surrounding businesses seem to be more retail focused than a medical office, which I think is, I would characterize as closer to industrial than just a florist, which seems very traditional retail to me.

Vagablorists need temperature-controlled environments. They need heavy refrigeration and all different water control, all different kinds of stuff to keep that afloat.

Sure. A medical office has specialized equipment, too.

True. I'm just saying that for an industrial, uh, you know, it's, it's definitely, uh, it's definitely needed for, uh, you know, to have that, uh, an industrial building as opposed to a, I mean, in just in facilities that I have. Yeah.

Okay. Understood.

Um, so anyway. All right, Chairman, I don't have anybody there. I think it is something that the Commission should kind of think about in that transition. And we've seen this in our industrial park. I mean, we used to have somebody that used to make army equipment and trailers, furniture makers, tile producers. They used to print USA Today in that area, Southern Comfort. We've seen this transition in there. We'll have some more special permit requests at our next meeting in there. It may lead to a focus of the discussion is, is the LID or the Light Industrial District an appropriate name given The environment only seen our a lot of our neighbors and Brent woods maple woods, the Richmond heights where their their traditional industrial areas have slowly kind of gone to more service retail type of orientation. So when I saw this, the first thing as a planner is like, this is a conflict. This is not industrial. Is this something we want to promote? Or do we want to stay true to the industrial aspect in there? And it's not a question that's going to be answered just with this use, but something we should be cognizant, something we should probably get more information specifically about the services offered in there. And then Again, I look at it, you know, if there's a means to get reinvestment and aesthetic improvements, you know, as part of this process, it's always worth that consideration. Do you know how long this space has been empty? We had a licensee last year for the space, correct? This year, we don't yet.

I don't believe so. Sorry, I can check.

No, it's okay. It could probably have been over two years, anywhere between 18 months to 24 months.

Is there anything specific to this location that makes it particularly difficult to rent, or is that just the way it is?

I think we're going to see more and more of this because if you look at the model of it, industrial is going to be cheaper to rent instead of a medical office. If you go to a medical office... They're looking for, you know, things that are costing more, just like everything in life. And they're looking for a way to make this business more functional and they're going to these things. And we're going to see this more and more because it's cheaper to go in a warehouse than to go a retail place out Brentwood or whatever it is. It's just true. So we need to figure out what we want to do with it, but it's going to happen.

Okay, great. Well, I guess we're probably not going to vote on this one tonight. So we'll move on unless anybody has anything else.

Why are we not voting on?

Because I'd like to talk to the petitioner a little bit about it.

Align Products Systems was the most recent business I have for this space. And... I noticed now that that doesn't really describe what they do.

It wasn't so much the use. I was just wondering if we needed to give more latitude because there was something very difficult about the property. No, I think the property just sold.

I think it's in there.

Yeah, because the assessor's update was pending in our record and I had to update it.

Okay.

So that's...

Great. Then we'll move on to item number four, 2024 Conference of Plan Update.

Carlos. Chairman, we had that discussion at our last meeting. I don't have, and I apologize, anything additional to add as we were trying, we're somewhat pressed trying to get all these items onto the agenda. There was discussion that was for Ms. Powell. I don't know if you had an opportunity to take a look at the video, but if that's something we can hold to our next meeting or in August, or I can go over the information we kind of went over.

I haven't looked at the video. If I could do that, that'd be great.

Okay, we will do that. Moving on to item number five other business a meeting minutes. I see we have meeting minutes somewhere. Yeah. Would anybody like to acknowledge them.

Is it emotion. Just say, I acknowledge- I acknowledge receipt of the minutes of May 21st, 2026.

Perfect. Thank you. And if anybody has any corrections or additions or revisions, let Dawn know.

All right. Moving on to reports, Carlos. Okay. Just a reminder, there's a list of news and events Dawn has posted on there. Our next meeting is going to be July 16th. I do know I have one- Tim will be out.

I will be here. Is that a problem?

Let's see. Then these meet goes down to four, so I just need to confirm with Ms. Nett.

Worst case, I could be late.

But we'll do our best.

I mean, we'll post.

I have something pressing to do.

I'll be out of town, but if you need me, I can join by Zoom. And then definitely.

Now, the other option is is the the following Thursday, which would be the 23rd. If anybody has that works for me, that would probably work for me. It gets hard because of the school and summer vacation. But then that puts us closer to, I believe, our first meeting in August is the 6th and 20th. So we understand. I mean, this is always a tough time with vacations and. and the schools. So and I'm sure a member of the council is working to get that and that probably will start in August. So it makes it a little bit more complex than it would usually would in there. So I would recommend to so I can give advance notice to the petitioners. Would July 23 be be okay if I threw that data? Yes.

Yes. Will you send out an email to confirm that, Carlos? Yes.

So I'm definitely not here that day.

So I'll send out a poll, and that way I can include Commissioner Knapp. And then you can see. And then, of course, you have the long range in there. It looks like at least the September observances shouldn't interfere with our traditional dates, even in December. Outside of that, if there's any questions, I'll let the council liaison talk about the upcoming coffee with the mayor. And I noted about what they're going to be discussing. The council just approved the new fiscal budget. One of the things we'll talk about at our next meeting or within the next couple of meetings is the enterprise goals that the council has put together. Enterprise meaning that it's not just the council's. but it filters down to the departments and to the commissions and boards. Um, and that, uh, and then, uh, also about the, uh, they have like a, uh, three to five year goal, or I don't know, that's the best description, uh, of the things that the council would like to see implemented. Um, and there, we'll talk about those, uh, in there, unless you want to go through those, um, and there, but there's a good graphic in the, uh, in the budget, uh, to, to utilize, um, that and then we do have uh two other special permit uses that we're reviewing two text amendments and there are two houses floating around i'm waiting for revisions to come in um great all right kate yes so um extend the earlier invitation to all of you if you're interested july uh chat with the mayor since it's happening in the

early evening at 5 p.m. So that's Wednesday at Five Oaks. And it will be covering a proposed neighborhood improvement district, which would be a process rather than thinking, don't think of it as like there is a district that we are focusing on improving. It is a process for providing funding mechanisms for neighborhoods who want to make substantial improvements to their streets and currently have private streets, so streets that are not owned by the city. This particular NID, if you were here in the 80s, I think it was, when there was a NID that went around and neighborhoods could opt in to becoming public streets, that is not what this is. It's completely different. So it is more about helping neighborhoods who can't put a lump sum forward for large street projects that use leveraging some of the city's funding options to enable neighborhoods to pay for those improvements. And so I'd encourage you or representatives from your neighborhoods, if this would apply to you, if you are on a private street to come ask questions, it is still in the proposal state. So we want to get feedback before we move anything forward.

Is there a way to become a public, from private to public now? I have no idea.

It's typically done when you have, like Chevy Chase, which I'm in, we met with the city about doing it because we needed to repave our streets and it was going to be a pretty hefty price tag. And so the problem was, is that when we went out to look for financing, we didn't have the requisite collateral to get a commercial loan. And this process is how other neighborhoods have done it. And what's interesting is that the Neighborhood Improvement District is whomever decides to band together to be a, quote, neighborhood. In Chevy Chase's case, the only people that we're going to be in, the only properties that we're going to be in the NID were the ones within the internal streets. And those of us who live on Old Bonham, we're going to be excluded. So it's separate from an HOA. It can be for any purpose. It just has to be a public person. It doesn't have to just be for streets, but that's the most likely thing you would do. So it's, it's a really great way of getting streets financed, um, repairs done. Um, and, and, and then the city uses its economic leverage to borrow money on the behalf of the neighborhood. So it's, and the whole process of financing and the process of, um, you know, getting people to pay and those who are delinquent, how that all works. It's, it's a, it's a well worth it vehicle if you have a big enough project, but it is an expensive project for the city and for the neighborhood. So, but anybody can apply. Like if we want to just city hall to be in a NID, we can make a NID, you know, it's just whoever's in the boundaries that you establish. So. Anyway, it's a really good economic vehicle for homeowners. Good.

Um, and then as Carlos said at our June 23rd meeting, we did approve the budget. Um, If any of you are nerds and enjoy looking at fine print and long documents, the budget is a good one. Um, I think it's re I find it really interesting, which I guess, you know, that's, what does that say about me? Um, but it's, I really appreciate how the departments and, um, are now previous, um, finance director. worked with the departments to really orient as much as possible. What are the departmental goals, objectives, accomplishments, and how does the budget further those goals and objectives and accomplishments? And I think it really gives you a sense of how our departments operate and the priorities that exist within the departments. So it gives you a good kind of view into the behind the curtain of city government functioning. Related to the current commission absence here on PCDC and on some of our other commissions, we are doing commission interviews at our next work session, which is July 7th. So hopefully we will have someone for you after that meeting. They'll be appointed to the position at the following council meeting So I'd have to look at the calendar to see how it all pans out or when the timing for that person to actually begin on the commission. But that is upcoming. And then just a little more details on what Carlos was saying. The council, as many of you know, four out of the five of us on council are new within the last year and a few months. Yeah. And we are a council that is coming in with a lot of ideas and vision. And so many of the goals that we have set out for ourselves as a council and for the larger city are lofty and they are not one year goals. And so there's That is all in the budget document as well. And I'm not going to try and remember what they all are off the top of my head, but that's another thing that if you are interested, I'd be happy to point you in the right direction to where you can find that information.

All right. Thank you very much. Unless anybody has anything else, doesn't look like it.

Wait, I do.

Yes, go ahead.

Sorry, it really is short.

Take your time.

So, Carlos, as Petrie had mentioned, and as we've said here tonight, we want to make sure that the light industrial... is cohesive and that we don't open up cracks to allow other things in it can you let us know what's there like what is it now and do we have is or should we be concerned about um having new things come through that might change the landscape down the road of what we can do and what we've allowed in absolutely we can get some data together

And it's not as industrial as it used to be. And for our purposes, and again, we need to adapt to the environment, the economy in that. So a user like this, which there's positives and negatives, but a special permit process puts a whole level of delay to do that. And if this is the type of use that maybe we do want to encourage, You know, we should reassess, you know, whether we want some of those type of uses in there. Mercy was a good example, a comparable example, but they were different because that is a distribution facility primarily where this is not, this is a visiting facility. So we'll get some of that data again.

Thank you. Okay, that's it.

Yeah, it's a good question. Okay. That being said, we'll call the meeting to a close at 8.45 p.m.

Thank you, everyone. Have a very good holiday weekend.