Planning & Community Design Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, chairman, you're are set. All right, we're going to call to order the Alabet Planning and Community Design Commission meeting for May 7th. Madam Secretary, will you please call the role? Sam Wallock, present. Jenna Nat. Oh, Petri, please turn on your microphone. Sorry. Sam Wall, present. Jenna Nat, Tim Spiegelass, present. Um, Felicia Ford is absent. Laura Ragdell present. And myself, Petri Paul.

Thank you, Petri. We also have Carlos Tjo, director, and Don Dodie, senior planner. And no, Jack tonight. He's out today. Jack's off today. Okay. Um, welcome everybody. um just kind of go over how we're going to proceed for those of you that haven't been here before. Oh, also Rob Trigal, excuse me. Who's uh

sorry, it's my first day as chairman, so forgive me if I'm not hitting all my marks exactly. Rob Dragel, chairman emeritus to uh to this commission is here as well and is filling in as our liaison for the uh city council. Thank you, S.

We're glad to have you here, of course. Um okay. Uh we're going to follow the agenda. There's a copy of the agenda in the back. Um we will have time for public comments right after these announcements. those public comments are related to items not on the agenda. Um, for the rest of the agenda items, the way it'll work is that staff will give a report and the commission members may ask some questions. Then we'll bring up the petitioner if necessary. They're able to talk a little bit, answer some questions from the commission, and then there may or may not be a uh motion and vote uh made on that particular agenda item. Um, Carlos, do we have anybody on Zoom?

No, just just Okay. Um, for the general public that's coming up to speak, if you do have to speak, please come up to the microphone. Make sure you turn it on. The red light will come on when it's on. Make sure you say your name and your address for the record. And we request that everybody keep their comments to 3 minutes or less to be respectful of everybody's time. Um, okay. Anything I missed, Carlos? No, sir. All right. Any other announcements that that you have? No, sir. Not at this time.

Okay, great. Then we will move on to public comments not related to other agenda items. Anything? Okay, great. Then we will move on to old business item 3A. That's 9339 Olive Boulevard, Taco Bell. Carlos

chairman, we discussed this at at our last meeting, April 16th, and there was some uh information that the commission requested that we we we look into. Uh Taco Bell right now, per their uh adopting ordinance, which was uh originally a rack's uh restaurant, uh and then you have copies of those, too. Um had had hours that restricted them till 11 p.m. They'd like to change this. uh they had asked uh uh to go up to 2:30 a.m. uh in there and we had a discussion with them. Uh we talked about, you know, how our liquor license kind of controls most of the restaurants to 1:30. Uh but the commission uh asked to look at the corridor, what are the hours of operations of the various restaurants um in Olivet and then also along Olive Boulevard and then to look at other Taco Bells uh in that you do have in your uh packet a um listing of eating establishments along with their current hours of operation. And I highlighted in yellows those that went uh beyond 11 uh PM. And I apologize for this this Oh, no. Yeah, this one here. That should have been PM uh in there. Now, in in the search, there was several of these restaurants that are not restricted to close at the at their closing times. Uh a couple of them that do have liquor licenses that allow them to go till 1:30. Um then I looked in um University City and the closest with the most extended hours east of Olive was the Emos uh which is just uh on the other side of Mcnite and they are open till midnight. But then further down there was a White Castles in a Jack in a Box uh one with 24 hours one uh to midnight west of on Olive uh Pizza Hut and Emos down by uh West Oak Shopping Center. That's where the Deerbergs is on on the west side. um has operating hours to 1:00 a.m. till midnight. Uh but their

McDonald's, which is on the other side of Craig, uh has uh 24 hours and then the Taco Bell that is way out almost towards 1:41 is uh 3:00 a.m. And then comparing other Taco Bells, the one on Paige is 4:00 a.m. The one on Dorset close to the Maryland Heights City Hall is 4:00 a.m. Uh St. Charles Rock Road uh right by Staint Anne St. John is 24 hours. And then the youth city on North Skinker is 4 a.m. Uh I did talk to the petitioner. Oh, and the other thing that was requested uh was the email from the uh Chief Andresi uh and her comments regarding uh the the hours of operation uh in there and you have a copy of that email. That's the third page on your packet. Uh and there I did talk to the petitioner uh today uh noting that there was concerns about the the hours and whether 1:30 would be a reasonable uh time. They they they said that that you know they would be appreciative if that could be extended to 1:30. Uh and uh that was about it. So okay be glad to answer any questions.

So they're okay with 130. They would be fine with 130. Okay. Any thoughts? I mean, I I I thought about it this weekend and I mean, I think I don't think it has an effect on us and they should be open whatever they want to be open with.

I I mean, after seeing, you know, that almost all the Taco Bells, I think all of them are open even later than 2:30. Um, obviously there's a demand at that hour of the evening. Um, I mean 1:30 be fine, but in seeing this I feel like if they want 230, I don't know that that really makes a difference. So, um, I'd be I'd be affirmative in either, but I, you know, I think if they wanted 230, that we should give them 230. So,

I I kind of agree with Petri that 230, I mean, is fine. I I look at it as having a college age son that is calling and texting me at 1:00 a.m. and it's always out like doing stuff then like I'm like okay. So I don't see the huge deal especially looking at some of these other ones. So

yeah I my only concerns I guess were one was a safety issue but the police have indicated that they're not concerned about that. And I guess noise. Um I think we talked about and the plane is it to be drivein only or drive-thru only, right? So I I I don't think I've really got a problem with with 2:30 either. I agree with you, Sam. It needs to be just drive-thru though after 11:00. I I agree. Just drive-through only. And there's not I mean right there there's not houses right there either. So Okay. All right. Um, is the petitioner here? Okay.

Sure. Public comments? None. Okay. Um, would anybody like to make a motion and maybe add something clarifying that um, it's got to be drive-thru only post 11 p.m. They close 11 now, right? Correct. What time did they close? Don't they close indoor before 11?

It is possible. I didn't check on on that or talk with them about like if the dining area closes at 9:00 or or not. And I know on their website there's not enough there's not information of what those I close dining room at 9 now. So but is that just but I think that just it can't go past later than 11 o'clock the dining room is what we're looking for. Right. I have a suggestion. I mean, you could just change this motion to say changing operating hours of the drive-thru at this time, you know, to 2:30, you know, something like that. That works, too. Would that work? Yes, sir.

I'm not going to be the chairman and make the motion. Okay. I'll have to make I'll make the motion. U motion to authorize the approval of petition for site plan review for a change in the operating hours of the drive-thru at 9339 Olive Boulevard as presented in the memorandum from the department of planning and community development dated May 7th 2026 subject to any staff conditions noted therein. Thank you. I will note that the staff condition is is uh and I think it's in your report on uh on the back of page one is to 1:30 a.m. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Are we going to do that then?

Can we just say amended? Amended. Yeah. Yeah. Amended to 230 instead of 1:30. Thank you, Petri. Do I hear a second? Second. Carlos, we call the role. Commissioner Spiegelass approved. Commissioner Ragsdale approved. Commissioner Powell approved. Commissioner Wallock approved. And the motion passes four to zero. So we'll get this written up and forwarded to the city council. The council has to be informed of of the change.

Perfect. Okay. Thank you. Um All right. Moving on to new business 4A, which is 9504 Old Bottom Road. Chairman, we received a petition for what we call a variation, unlike a variance uh for the placement of a ornamental fence within the front yard setback at the property address is 9504 Old Bonum Road. 9504 Old Bonum is where they're building the the is one of where two new houses have been built. Uh it is a corner lot. Uh you can see Old Bonum uh right here and then Bowwood Court that runs this way. These houses on uh there are several houses on Bowwood Court that face the street uh on the west side, but on the east side it's just the rear of a of of a bunch of properties or or two or three properties uh in there. Um, so they do have a corner lot and what they would like to do is put a rear yard fence enclosure that is 4 feet ornamental. So it's over 50% open uh to extend beyond the garage uh up to 5 ft from the rideway and then from the rightway there's at least another 7 to 8 ft before you get to the actual curb uh in there. Our ordinance restricts the height uh to three feet but authorizes the commission through the variation process which is a site plan review uh that uh that you have the ability to to grant a waiver um in that but the petitioner needs to indicate uh what they're doing in that process. They will also propose to put landscaping in front of that fence to kind of block the view and we do have a representative uh for the property owner that is here uh they'd be glad to answer any questions. So, how uh how much taller is this than the 3T?

The three feet uh would have been done administratively. They were looking for four feet. Okay.

Does this have to do with the retaining wall that we approved last time?

No. No, because the retaining wall would be enclosed. Uh they they do have a uh the new owner has a uh a dog that they're trying to keep uh within the the fence area. And I'll give you the street view is not very good because the houses don't exist yet or we're not in place. But it'll give you a little better idea of what's down in that road. So I'm going to go towards the end of Bowwood and then head north towards Olive. So you could see the houses here along Bowwood on the western side. And then this is the eastern side. It's the the back of end of several properties. Uh this is the closest neighbor which the grades fall and that's where the retaining wall is being placed. And then this is the the property but I don't have the the new house isn't there yet.

Can you tell us the the fence? It's an ornamental fence, so it's not a a monolithic um wood fence that is privacy fence. Okay. Yes. I mean, for me, I I would not want to go above the 3 foot if it was uh a solid wood fence. But if it's ornamental, I'm okay with it. But I'd want that in the motion. And I think in your this is the spec that's before you today, and I'm sorry I can't rotate it. Uh, but it is a 4ft tall uh black uh aluminum ornamental fence. Can you go back to the uh Google Maps? Absolutely. View.

So, I'm going to kind of move it all the way to Old Bonum and then turn around and start looking southward. So, here's Old Bonum. The fence is roughly going to kind of be aligned where this green tree protection area is. That's what I was going to ask about and right about is it about there and isn't that about that orange and green fencing? It's going to start back here. It the new house kind of sits here's a driveway. So it it won't start to about right here but it's kind of aligned with this green. So it'll be a little shorter than that orange fencing I think. Yeah. or just about the same height. About the same height. Mhm.

Anybody else have any questions for Carlos Rob?

Okay. Uh yeah, petitioner, remember to turn it on. State your name and address, please. uh John Travillian and I represent the new homeowners at um 9504 Old Bonham. And so the um couple of the issues is they do have a dog uh a lab and they're concerned that a three-foot may just not be tall enough to contain the the dog. Um, the other, um, issue is is that I almost feel like a three-foot fence is something that somebody could jump. A 4ft fence is something that maybe they'd have to climb. So, that would be um, an issue. Um, the other thing is is that um, as you're looking at the house from the street from Old Bonham, the fence would still be on the back side of the house. So it it would not exceed past the front building line. Um which I think is a positive. We've set this back off of the street sufficiently and then we've got layers of planting in front of it. So the fence will really be very softened. Um, and I think the other thing is is that it, even though we're going to be planting the retaining walls, um, this does add added security, um, for people that, you know, they cut through or want to get from one yard or one street to the other street, just another house away, there's another side street. So, it could theoretically be a cut through if if people wanted to make it. um the house directly behind it that's kind of at the bottom of the picture there theoretically could put a 6-foot privacy fence right up against Bowwood Court there because that is

their backyard. So in essence we could be running a 4ft fence right into a 6ft fence that's even closer to the street. So, um I think this is a a fairly reasonable request and uh is not going to be very invasive at all. So, any questions for the petitioner? Okay.

Thank I do want to clarify that that one statement is correct and just but it's good for the commission to know when you have a property where your front yard uh is along of course is is along a street but your backyard is along another street and you have no access to that street. You can put a 6-ft tall privacy fence running all the way across. And I think that there there is one now here. This is all a wooden privacy fence that runs across. It's not shown in the picture, but there is an existing fence along that side street. No question. Okay. Thank you all for your consideration. Thank you.

And chairman, if the notes can reflect that both Commissioner N and Commissioner Ford uh came in at 720. Thank you, Carlos. Okay. Um any other questions or any other discussion? If not, somebody like to make a motion. Public comments. Public comments. You got to do that. Any public comments? Seeing none, would anybody like to make a motion? I'll make a motion.

Go ahead. A motion to authorize a petition for a site plan variation for the property address as 9504 Obanum Road for a 4ft black aluminum ornamental fence as presented in the memorandum from the Department of Planning and Community Development dated May 7th, 2026 subject to any staff conditions noted therein. Second hearing a second. Carlos, would you like to call? Okay. And chairman, I'm going to call the full commission. Miss Nat and Miss Ford can decide they want to abstain or or they had enough information. Uh, Commissioner Spiegelass approved. Commissioner Ragdell,

approved. Commissioner Nat approved. Commissioner Ford approved. Commissioner Powell, approved. Commissioner Wallock, approved. And the motion passes unanimously. 7 to zero. Thank you. Six to zero. I'm sorry. All right. Uh, moving right along to item number five. That's the 2024 comprehensive plan update. Chairman, I'm going to ask if we can uh get to if if it is okay if we can discuss the other business. 1160 Walters Way. There there is a group here that would like to present and we can give them an opportunity. Uh they have a prepared slide presentation. Yeah, absolutely.

There. So bear with me one second and let me get a uh just so you have a an idea on the location. So we're right here. Here's our city centers right here at this location. And right behind us is the uh Dealman Industrial and North Price Industrial Parks. This is the US Bank facility that was uh before us a couple of months ago. Uh and then of course the um Emerson now operates uh in this facility that used to be owned by Enterprise. And you can see this grassy area here. There is actually a vacant lot right there. Um lots been vac I think it was subdivided in the early 2000s. Uh and it has been uh undeveloped since it was subdivided. Uh we've had uh two previous petitions that I can recall since I've been here. One was there the original subdivider was going to build a microchip facility. uh on those grounds and that was back around 2004 2006 and then it didn't happen. And then uh right around the pandemic area uh we had a a petitioner that was looking to do a uh a private dog park. I don't know who who was here at that time

and uh unfortunately that also uh didn't come to to fruition. Uh Mr. McLaren and along with his team are looking at that property and they they been in discussions with us about a uh uh creating a commercial uh private user garage facility uh for the storage of upst but these facilities would be condo. So you you would purchase like a garage and then you can you know set up your garage as you wish and then store items in there. And he's going to go through that concept in there. Just wanted to get you to get a a background on on there. How big is that lot, Carlos? Uh do you recall? It's a little over an acre.

Yeah. And it met that that standard. And then that depth though is u that that's been to me that's been one of the hard parts of trying to get this developed is it's a shallow depth. Probably about 12 200. Yeah. So So all right. Uh, Mr. McLaren, I do have the uh that will be set up for you and I'll get your presentation up in just a second. Thank you for allowing here. I'm sorry. Please turn on your microphone.

There we go. Can you hear me now? Yes, that works. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Thank you very much. My name is Mark McLaren. My business partner, Linda Sweeney, behind me. We have another business partner also not here today. Do appreciate the opportunity to introduce you to probably a new concept, but I think it's an interesting development opportunity for the city of Alabet. So, I don't know how many of you have heard of a car condo. Has anybody heard of a Got one. I got one taker. Okay. Uh um they are a developing type of storage for a very specific set of people. But before I go there, one of the things I was doing is I look past I looked through your old 2006 plan, the catalyst plan. I was looking at the year 24 plan

and one of the things I noted in the the 2006 is there's a line in there that I think is appropriate for this and that is often windows of opportunity present themselves but they're fleeting and that's what car kind of development is. There are going to be a limited number of car condo developed in any given city because there's only a specific target market and it's not that big. So we only have one here in St. Louis right now. I'll cover that in a minute, but they're popping up all over the country. If you just kind of Whoops. I first of all, let me let me come back a minute. We have one person who knows what a car kind of is. So, let me give you a little look and feel. If you see your screens, I think you all of you have it in front of you. Okay, perfect. The look and feel of these, just think of a very wellappointed garage, right? A well-appointed self- storage facility, right? Interior, they can they start off fairly basic. They can be then upgraded to anything you really wanted to do. These are all individually owned. So all is tailored to the individual. And so take now your self- storage facility you drive up and you throw your boxes into and just glamorize it quite a bit. That's really what we're talking about. And make it larger. Quite frankly, these these are obviously a lot larger than an individual storage facility. They are popping popping up everywhere in every city across the country and not a lot of them as I said. So every city gets two or three. Chicago obviously has a bunch. Dallas has a bunch. There's a big concentration down in Florida uh where a lot of wealth is starting is not starting to accumulate has been accumulating for a long period of time. Um, but every city is starting to put these in in some level and we have got a few here in St. in Missouri and in St. Louis. Over in Kansas City, there's four or five of them actually. Lake of the Ozarks, there's three of them right now. And one of the biggest ones I've ever seen is right on the lake by the old toll bridge. If any of you

are familiar with the br that toll bridge, which is no longer a toll bridge, I believe. I'm not a lake of the Ozarks person, but believe it's no longer toll bridge. huge huge development right there overlooking the lake. They're actually going to have a huge clubhouse, pool, pickle ball courts, the whole whole shebang. We're not proposing that on a 1.4 acre site. Um, this is a much more scaled down version of what we're talking about. To give you an idea of the ones here, this is the one at Lake of the Ozarks right by the by the dam. Very nicely done. They are in the early stages of its development. They probably have one I'd say one quarter of their garage is already built. They still have three quarters left to go. Over in Kansas City, they've got a beautiful one called the Lux. Obviously, as you can see, these are targeted to a wealthy group of people. And we see these as wealth attractors, bringing wealth and people with wealth into the community to spend more money in different areas. If we look here in St. Louis, there is one. It's down by the Chesterfield Airport and it was built I think 2018 give or take. Uh, another one will be built at some point in time, but there won't be too many more here in in the St. Louis area just because there's just not that market for it. What we want to do is we want to propose to put one here in Alvette, the center of St. where people can come and we can attract from all around to be able to have their opportunity to be here in Olivet at this particular development. What we'd be looking at, this is the one down in Chesterfield. What we'd be looking at from our standpoint is a similar design as we just talked or as Carlos just showed you where it would be is right back there in that industrial park. This is obviously from one of your uh strategic plans in in the three different areas. We're in that industrial area within there. And it

zooming in, going in further, as Carlos already showed you, we're right there by the Emerson parking lot in that 1.4 acres. So, what would it look like? As I said, it's uh this would be a luxury type of development. So we would have a very high level of finish, a very appropriately done and tastefully done landscaped area which would attract people probably coming in straight in from Leoo, straight in from Clayton, some people from here in Alvette. Um maybe further away, maybe go to Front Neck, maybe go further out. My gut is you collect, you attract people from less than five miles away. We're pulling in from Clayton Leoo front neck just in to come into here have their facilities. What do they do with it? It's not just a come a place to come park your garage or your car in your garage is to come. It's a place to come socialize. It's a place where they come they appoint the interior as however they might appointed. I've got a couple different versions here I want to show you. uh they might appoint it any way they particularly feel any level of luxury or lack of luxury they particularly want but they are going to be coming to socialize with their friends. Likewise, there will be a lounge on on property, not a bar or anything like just a private lounge where they can go in and sit down and bring in their own food or drinks and sit down and talk with their friends. Um outdoor patio area as well. They'd be able to engage, probably have little block parties. Um we've seen that many many times in these developments where they get together, three or four or five of the residents of the facility get together and they have their little party um look at their cars and and enjoy their space uh together and with their friends. So that is effectively what we're talking about. I think what it creates is the opportunity for Alvette to have something that will

be talked about in the community. It will be talked about in St. Louis and it will be that it will attract a group of people that will bring funding, money, wealth and spending into the city of Alvette. So question we have is can we do it within the confines of what we're talking about with in the city of Alvette right now but zone light industrial I don't think it's black and white within the zoning rules that this works storage works warehouse works um so the question then would this be allowed to work one of the things that Carlos identified is to the function of these is for individual ownership ship. So we would basically subdivide and declare a condo association with each person owning their own garage car condo. So we've currently built it out as we've designed it for 18 individual condos plus a lounge, a community lounge and and patio area. So you'd have 18 individual condos and then a condo associationowned community area, amenity area. That is commonly how all communities across the country are doing it. And if we look at the other communities within St. Louis, that's just an above shot, if you will, how it would lay out on that property. If we look at how the other properties in in uh Missouri have done it, the two at that I pulled up at Lake of the Ozarks I was able to get their documents for did exactly what we're talking about. They did a subdivision of the property and and declared condo association. If you go over to uh the Chesterfield uh the place exactly the same scenario declare set up a subdivision declared condo association and the one over in Kansas City exactly the same. I could honestly go on every

location I could dig up would be a very very similar pattern. So we would look to the city to have some type of authorization approval whether it's through a special permit uh to allow the owners to subdivide well to allow us to subdivide and allow the ownership to be divided into condos. With that I don't have anything more so I'm happy to take on questions. Would you mind going Would you mind going back to the floor plan that Yeah, this one? Yeah. Understand?

So, this is approximately what they would be. As you can see in the upper left, you've got 25 foot by 60 foot. Honestly, one individual could say, "Hey, I want two of those together." And we would combine them into one. If somebody wants to come in and say, "We want five of them together." We bind them into five. I don't think that makes the most sense, but um certainly somebody could do that. Uh, we can do these in any number of different sizes. You can see the two on the far right are 25 x 75 foot. That's a pretty common size out there. 25 x 60 foot's a pretty common size. The ones on the front are a little bit smaller, 25 by 50. That's just recognizing market differentiation. Um, none of those are set definitively as a size at this moment. Um, until we know we can definitely go forward. you know, we're not going too much further with exactly specifying what sizes are going to be there, but um they'll all be very very close to this size because that that footprint of that lot will only allow for so much variation in our ability to design it because it's a tight lot.

Would you have any employees? No. No employees. No employees. Manning the lounge and patios. There's food, beverages, be condo association. They would not. It would be a condo association and common area. So, it'd be no different than a condo having a lobby and if they wanted to have a little party down there in the lobby, they bring their own food and drink and have a party in the lobby. So, is this all like laid out in bylaws for the condominium association? So, there's no on-site security unless the condo association chooses to have security.

If the condo association said, "We're going to have a security," they could have security. There will be a perimeter fence. If you see on the the left side, if you're looking at that, there's a green line between the two garages. That's basically a wall. Um, same thing on the right, same thing on the lower bottom. And then that would be a gate. So, it would be closed off uh secure facility for them, but if they wanted to have security, they could have security. Carlos, do we typically require a peak at um any kind of bylaws or condo association governing documents to ensure that there are rules about the partying that might be occurring or you know limitations on use um time that kind of thing.

Yes. Okay. They'd be sub submitting that to the city for review before recording. Okay. That's all I wanted. So would you drive any revenue other than through selling the property taxes, property revenues, transfers of that? Outside of that, there would be no uh sales taxes going on. There's nothing being sold there. At the same time, there's no use of city services, no school use, no other use. You pro you'll have water and they'll they'll pay for that, right? Um, but water and sewage, which And do you have bathrooms in each one of these facilities? They can. We'll plum them for it. Okay. The individual buyer will determine whether they have a bathroom put in or not.

And when you guys build these, do you build them all at one time or you build them as you sell them? We'll build all of it at one time. We probably won't start building until we've pre-sold half of them. Okay. But we'll build all of them at that time. Um, we'll probably do the back far back part first and then the front part, but we'll build it all at once. We're not going to just build, stop, build, stop, build, stop. And is your plan to do the same cobblestone driveway and all the stuff that we saw on that right now? Yeah. Okay.

Budget's going to change that of course, but we're right now. Yes. The the design that you saw if I go back that uh actually let me because that one doesn't have a back wall. Let me come to that one that's got a back wall. That's as close as close to current plan as we've got. I have a silly question. There is no silly question when we're talking car. How do the cars get in and out? You got you got a landscaping in front of it.

Uh so if I come back right so that you got an entry right there and that that landscaping doesn't sorry that's just an an image. Let's go to let's assume you drive in right there and then you go you're just driving that cobblestone goes all the way up to the the door. that image right there. The landscaping shouldn't be around the Okay. In that in the other picture they showed the Yeah, that's got the landscaping in there. Yeah, that's that's render art artist rendering. Not exactly what I was looking for, but close. Do Do you have people that spend the night here? No.

So, I they're not built for for spending the night overnight. They're not built for residents. Um, and quite frankly, I think you'd probably put that in the condo association bylaws. Uh, the your uh lobby area or you know, kind of what are the typical hours of operation there? Well, because these are condo owned, I wouldn't we wouldn't set any rules on the lobby. If the city wanted to set rules, I think we discussed that, but we wouldn't typically set ours.

Okay. Honestly, once this is sold out, we're gone and the condo owners do whatever they do within their condo bylaws. So So every every condo owner would have a key then to that lobby space. Absolutely. Can you tell us how much these go for? I can depend on your market. Oh, it was on there. I didn't catch it. Sorry. Which one had it on here? There.

There you go. So, that's in those are in uh Kansas City. Kansas City also has in that same development one that is currently for sale for $800,000. I have stood in one down in Naples, Florida that the guy was selling for $1.2 million. Um you're we're not going to have a $1.2 $2 million car condo here in Alvette, but you know, demand, supply and demand, there won't there will there's never a lot of these. So, and they are targeted towards a specific group of people that want to feel like they have something special. So, why the industrial park of all of that?

That's a great question. Multiple reasons. Number one reason is the central aspect of oliveette is really an important component to us because we can pull from potential all around the area. Your demand area is pretty meaningful for us because we reach it to all the way to the city. We reach out west to maybe even Chesterfield.

I don't think we'll need to go that far. I think we'll get a closer group. you are in a wealth concentrated area, right? If you drive down Dealman, all of a sudden those house values start just popping up very very rapidly. So, it's very uh central in proximity to the wealth that would need to sell these and to buy these would be the biggest aspect. Easy access right off of 170 here. Easy access from olive from the west. easy access from the city if you're coming in. So, it's it's a very good location, centrally located and located near the people that would would actually buy these.

So, Carlos, this is probably premature, but it seems like there's some question about whether or not this type of use is permitted in in space or

the the key comes into more than the condo aspect of it. So right now as the light industrial district you can have storage um you know auto beauty has storage facilities uh and they're questionable whether it requires a special permit uh in that process. So they can store vehicles if if they were building a building to store vehicles that's permitted in the LI district. Uh the second thing through a special permit process the LI district also permits mini storage. We we approved that uh we made an zoning change probably around 2012 or or so plus or minus uh in that time to allow uh somebody had interest of doing a uh uh mini storage facility like you see up at Paige and uh and Dealman, you know, one of the the U-Haul types where you had the individual uh places and then also for some outdoor boat and RV type of storage. So the code was amended um but placed as a special permit so it gave the commission a little bit more latitude and the council the final say um in there. So again this kind of falls under both umbrellas. So if Mr. McLaren was building this facility for the purposes of this facility would have multiple stoages and they were rented out. It's probably a special permit process. However, because they're being condoed, then the u the land area becomes the the the the conflict within the code that needs to get resolved because all of a sudden you have uh these you know the standard room was about 20 by

20 by 60. Yes. 25 by60. Sorry. So you have a 12,200 square foot lot or you know it it in there. So we would have to come up with a mechanism to allow uh a condoing of property within the light industrial district. We have those mechanisms already in residential districts. So we do have condos and we do have you know where you have a land area but within that land area you can have smaller lots and put in place. Uh we don't have that for the light industrial district. So that would be the key change uh in there. So again the use would be consistent. It's just trying to make the condo aspect work. What about the office park? The which

um Olivet office park right off of uh Yeah, I I don't think those are condo. Not that I'm aware. I don't know if any of them were. No, no, they're individual parcels. Uh we do have one where the building is kind of split, but it's a a parcel line and then the parcels that were created have like a let's say an acre and an acre. Okay. and all of a sudden the minimum lot size in the LI district is 1 acre. This lot meets that requirement. But to create a a sublot, I'll call it of 1,200 square ft. I would need a mechanism. We need something in our ordinance to make sure that that would be covered to allow it to be sellable. Okay.

So it is doable. Other places have them uh in there. But then that brings on the planner side aspect of it is like okay once you authorize or permit condoing within the industrial part you know there there are other properties then that could take advantage of of doing that and there's nothing wrong with doing condos um in there but it does open a new realm uh like you said in the office park where somebody could then uh you know do condos uh in there and you kind of deal with condos just the way the same way you would do with the subdivision you you you have a an entity, an association that you deal with that's responsible for, you know, everything within that area and then individuals that are responsible within within the space. And that's always just, you know, how well the uh the indentures are written, you know, to the city's favor to make sure that, you know, these things are up to date. M maintenance is is being done. you know if they there were requirements for security or there were requirements on on on hours of operation and and those type of things. So question if this moves over to a condominium versus industrial and we look at this from a residential standpoint then does the installation and the buildout need to meet the same requirements which the R rating

the the use will always be industrial so it it would it wouldn't be as you know it would always be done I'm going to use it the I the international the IBC not the IRC which is a different residential the residential building code. So they will meet they will be designing to meet a commercial or industrial building standard. Even if they conduit it, they're conduiting the the the warehouse space for each one of those is that does that is I'm wondering if there's a concern of noise. Well, because if there's somewhat of a habit habitation going on, then there do we need to be concerned or

it's commercial property all the way around. But I think I think that's where your bylaws and your condominium association rules would would dictate and that's why I asked whether we saw those so that we could say your hours of operation can't be over a certain thing and and you know the amount of it residentializing an industrial space has to be very limited or or whatever. But I think all of that would be addressed in the association bylaws.

Correct. And I think too, you know, as a speech, if it is considered as a special permit, I mean, the location is ideal there. There is no residents around here. Now, if you go here to we have these small uh incubator spaces, you know, that may not be the the best or ideal space because it's so close to some of the residential uh in there. And again, through a special permit process, the commission and the council have have quite a bit of leeway of of restricting where where they can and can't be, you know.

And if I may real quick, the clientele we're talking about, the ones that can spend half a million, $800 on the garage with for their 50,000, $100,000, $250,000 car, we've never seen to be the party type, right? Their kids might be might be. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Yeah. I mean, you know, teenagers are like, "Let's go over to dad's condo in Alvette and have a big party." You know, that I that was the first thing that occurred to me was not the adults, it's the children of the adults that I would be more concerned about. Sure.

And and I I mentioned you asked me a question on why there I said two parts and I didn't come to second part. I'd like to cover that is the the name of this is the lair, right? Part of that is it's this little tucked away, hidden away oasis for the owners of this. The property we're talking about is a perfect definition of that. So, we spent a lot of time trying to find a location that fit all of our matrix and this is this really does it. Do you have like CO sensors in there? Exhaust fans to people start the cars and Yeah. So, there's fire suppression uh

sensors for the exhaust. Absolutely. Yeah. Any other questions? I have what might be a strange question just because Okay. If you're bringing your car and parking it and leaving it, is there parking for people that are gonna, you know, if they're come visit their car? Yeah. They're going to drive their car to visit their car.

Great question. Very, very great question. There's parking in front I all these spots are 25 uh each door is 25 foot wide or each bay. So they park right in typically what occurs that people park right in front of their uh space and then there are there is space in the design for three or four side parking spots on the property but most of the people pull up to their spot open their door go in and do their thing. I can't imagine that Arch design parking lot is ever that full either but

unless the teenager's having a party. Do you ever have people that try to sell high performance cars out of these garages? Make it like a showroom?

Not that we've seen. No, I've not seen that at all. Honestly, one of the designs we've got that actually has a showroom and not this this footprint isn't big enough. But a previous footprint that Carlos and and we sat down on some time ago, which is a bigger property not too far away, we actually had a showroom on it for the car dealerships, the high-end car dealerships to rotate through having to show their fancy cars to their potential customers right there on the spot. This property doesn't fit that bill because it's not large enough. Uh but I think you could see that. I've not we've not seen it. That was actually a unique thing that we felt we were bringing to the market, but that property didn't work out for a couple different reasons. Um, I'd love to see that on a development, but this property wouldn't do that.

All right. Well, I mean, I'll I'll just say for myself like um I would love if this was a business that employed a thousand people uh in Olivet, but to Carlos's point, this property has been sitting vacant for it's been since it was created in around 2002. Okay. You know, looked at 20 years. Um and so a unique use like this is is definitely interesting. So, sounds like a couple of things maybe to figure out, but um doable. It's very intriguing. Yeah.

I think it would be a great addition to Ela. Honestly, we don't have anything like it. No other city has it around us. This is what we're looking for. A unique thing that's nice and luxury like that's a good thing to invest in our community like that. I agree. And I don't know how many of you frequent down Warson often, but right before the new before our community center on the other side, there's all the really nice fancy cars, cars, RP exotics,

whatever it's called. All I know is they have all these really awesome cars sitting outside all the time right there. Yes. um that when my son before he could start driving, we always had to like go really slow past there. You're driving too fast, mom. And I like I couldn't go slow enough. I'm like there like so, you know. Um but yeah, so there's I I can see a need. Mhm. Okay. There's definitely a need in St. Louis. There's a lot of nice nice car dealerships that nobody knows about in St. that you are correct. Very, very nice.

Well, I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I'm happy to take any other questions you have. I'm sure I'll be back here at some point in time, too, to take questions, but thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. I can think of a certain ex counsel member that might Yes. be interested in that. Yes. All right, Carlos, do we want to go back to the comprehensive plan or you want to skip that for tonight? How do you go ahead and skip that for tonight? Short. So, it's been Don and I put some maps together. You want to go ahead and show real quickly or Nobody can hear you though on the recording. Um, I can Okay. Okay.

Yeah. They have He's just laying right now.

Don Don's going to join us via Zoom on in the other room. We're just going to show the maps real quick uh in that process. Oh, she's moving. I can go. You do have a set of meeting minutes. Uh Mr. Carwell had put together. So, you have the the November 6, 2025, and that should complete all of 2025. Okay. Uh so, acknowledged. If anybody has any comments on the meeting uh minutes, please let us know. On other items, I can give you some of the reports real quickly uh while she's getting set. Um Party in the Park is scheduled for tomorrow. Please note that it's been relocated to Five Oaks as opposed to Stacy. Uh that's to anticipation if there is rain uh then they can move indoors. So uh again if you planning to attend party in the park tomorrow uh it will now be at Warsome Park at Five Oaks uh in there. Then there is a pet adoption uh event here at the police department with fire department council is May 12th and then our next meeting is May 21st. Uh and there I know we're getting close to the end of school and graduation. So just if you could just shoot me Jack or Don an email if you have a conflict let us know. Um and there and then then we'll co coordinate from there. Offices are closed of course for Memorial Day, city council on the 26th, blood drive on the 28th, and then our meeting schedule for June is the 4th and 18th and then in July are the 2nd and 6th. I also know it's getting to summertime, so give us a heads up if you have family events or uh or you know, activities that are going on uh in there. I already gotten some information uh in there and it's just so we can give a heads up to applicants if if I do have a quorum issue um in there the council um sorry just

I won't be here the 21st for a graduation May 21st May 21st yes and I may not be available either is uh July 2nd sixth. Correct. Did I miss one? 16th Friday. I think I think it's the third because the fourth is a July 2nd and July 16th. 16th. Okay.

I won't be here July 2nd. Neither will I. and Don will be with you in just a second. All right. And I will be out in the month of June.

All right. Uh then going back just to kind of wrap up some some of those items before starting with Miss Dodie. Um, let me get back here. Uh, so that's the schedule. Again, giving me a heads up if so. Uh, council validated the uh the the votes in April and of course Mr. Driel is now a a council member. Um, our new liaison will be uh council member Kate Pashan Helman uh in there, but she had a conflict today. So Rob is is sitting uh on her behalf uh in there. And then they have posted for the the vacancy uh that was created with Mr. Duel's uh election and I believe that will be in a June July decision. So that person would start in August um in there. So

and if anybody has any ideas of people, you know, let Carlos know um or let me know, you know, that'd be great. Um this is one that we need an engineer. Correct. Well, the the requirements for the coverage are complete. Okay, good. Uh however what value added would be the to have somebody uh engineer we will have Mr. Spiegel glass uh with his construction background but you've always been kind of like our engineer uh aspect and then of course we have Mnat was architecture. Yeah. Two attorneys planner and then u Mr. Hag been our kind of our resident.

Yeah. Um and there now four of the seven members have to fall under those under that criteria which we do have right uh however it's just someone bringing that could help us in some of that expertise I did talk to miss uh our city manager uh um and noted that it'd be good to get somebody with an engineering background. Yeah I think so. So if anybody knows it when you say engineering can you specify are you talking

more like civil civil and site would be helpful to to assist us like both with you know storm water or infrastructure type types of review or plans I mean and our staff is capable and we do have our public works director uh in but it's always good to have that outside eye or somebody that has that background expertise could also say mechanical I mean I know they won't have this you know the grading and things like that. But, you know, especially if we're looking at sustainable, you know, ideas, you know, things like that. Okay, great. I am ready. I finally got the audio going so I could hear you.

Okay, one second. Anything else? No, I was just going to say quickly, you know, I had my first meeting, which is exciting, but I'll tell you, it's kind of like drinking from a firehouse. It's a lot So, it's exciting. It's fun, but uh it's it's busy. But we are currently trying to finalize next next fiscal year's budget. We're also finalizing the council goals, kind of what we want to try to kind of have implemented um and and how we're going to do that. I also took advantage of uh touring u the MSD sewer plant down in Maryland.

Um it was, you know, they offered it to, you know, anybody in municipal governments and stuff. Um, and uh, I was the only one that showed up. Personal tour. I got the personal tour. There's like five people all taking me around. So, instead of five minutes, they give you a three-hour tour. Well,

I'll tell you, it was fascinating. It was very fascinating. And, you know, I was expecting the odors to be overwhelming, but it really wasn't that bad. they in they implemented some new bioreactor and they pull the uh the the air right from where you know the the sewage comes into the uh into the plant and I it's amazing how effective that that was so it's very interesting it's neat techni new technology that might be helpful in other aspects of things very Maybe we'll have to do a field trip. They'd be happy to to see

I want to visit the car place down in Naples, please, instead. Well, we'll see if we can get the city to bo for that. Um, it's not in the budget. I'll tell you that. Strike that. Sorry. All right, Don.

All right. Um so here is uh a a display of the various parcels in the northwest quadrant by and this set in front of you uh or this color scheme is uh the parcel frontage. So your uh and the way the colors go is that the smaller uh the smaller the parcel frontage if we have that data at all um is in the pink and the large frontage is in the green. So uh it it had or it's divided up in that way uh so that you can tell which you know where your concentrations uh are of the low uh frontage as far as number of feet. Uh so obviously a lot of the you know the end lots uh irregular uh frontages don't h either they don't have the numbers or it is you know uh bel it's definitely you know below that 40. Um and that's kind of where the thresholds are. uh if whenever you are 100 you start or when you have a a parcel front edge of 100 ft then you're getting into the yellow and over that is green.

The purposes of the map is to kind of illustrate we have one residential zoning district that's applied throughout the city uh in there and under that district the minimum lot width is 100 feet and the min minimum lot size is 15,000 square feet. Now, every lot that's that's legal can be redeveloped or or added on to as long as it's a legal lot of record. Um, however, when we apply this one district fits approach, they have to meet the same setback standards regardless of their width. So, if you had the typical 100 foot lot, you can have uh, you know, your your sideyard setbacks are 12% of your lot width or 12 feet. If you have a 75- ft wide lot, which the majority of these fall or pro that's probably the average, you still have to meet the 12% width. Uh so that you know you as we're trying to apply this uniform setback standard um on all lots regardless of their width or so. I think what we want to go or have the commission kind of take a look at is, you know, are there unique enough unique lots that a different subdivision, excuse me, a different residential district can be created. And I think this kind of illustrates that need. Uh if they were ideal lots, you would see them more in that palish color, but there's not that many. And you can see all of these lots in in this general area are below 100 ft. uh but yet we're applying the same setback uh in there. The reason we we want to take a look at this is that they have a difficulty. Most of these lots uh have a onecar carport or a onecar garage enclosed garage and they could be within 5 ft from the property line. And I think that, you know, we to assist them to to to invest in their properties, not necessarily to encourage the tear down, but to invest in those properties is to make those garages or other aspects of

the house more usable. And that would be by giving them more uh you know uh greater ability to utilize their full lot with uh as opposed being trying to impose the same standard that we're doing on a 100 foot lot uh in there. Uh in addition to that um there there are other setbacks and and and approaches that we we can uh take a look at. So uh you know so these these lots are not kind of tied into uh being unable to do add-on or enclosure uh because of the current setback situations. It's not a a fix all but within this area you know we have at least uh four different type of housing types. These lots here are between 50 and 60 feet in width. These lots here are, you know, average probably about 75. Then you have the the the attached homes here on Hilltop Manor. And then you have a a cluster of some larger lots right here in this square. Uh so

I also have uh the area or uh you know by area. So um I mean as you can imagine it's not you know completely identical but you know there are larger lots and there are smaller lots. So this really highlights the amount of smaller lots uh in this area and they you know are going to be uh you know obviously you know as you apply the setbacks as a percentage of the width it's it just takes that uh total parcel acreage down. Would you consider applying this to other uh

correct? This is a pretty nice controlled area to take a look at how many different zone residential, you know, land area types there are. Uh but this area is somewhat reflective of of uh of um Chvy Chase, uh Magnet Lane, and some other properties. the cherry tree and harvest harvest lane uh off of old bottom or in infield uh in there where do you want me to go to that area? No, it's okay with the parcel frontage.

No, because I'm going to go back. These lots are more reflective of of what you might see in Indian Metals, though. Some of those are are larger. So, it has a you know, whatever did in 1985. Prior to 1985, all of it had multiple residential zoning districts. In 1985, they took an approach that is reflective of what UC city has where they just did one residential zoning district and that's how it's applied creep. Do we do we know why they did that? Is there anybody we can ask or if some of the older Yeah. Not that I know.

Okay. Okay. where in Creek Corps there are four single family residential districts you know there's along Mal Park to some of the larger ones you see down at F in the western side and I think that you know so it gives a little bit more flexibility about that usability this one district fits all approach some it might have been the goal was that the city wanted now our comprehensive plan saying we should start smaller lots in his effort to try to control those. Carlos, what are some of the common concerns about making a change like this?

Storm water, storm water, storm water, you know, because that's going to filter, you know, but there are mechanisms and ways to control that process of trying. The other thing is is what is the reasonable setback have some subdivision that will allow five people. The other thing or the smaller lots or tighter lots should I be a bigger concern because

is your microphone off? Oh, it is now. Sorry, doc. I think this is a great start. And again, I think it's it's a it's a good area just to kind of look at the different uh in there because we'll see a lot of this same pattern is going to exist uh west of Dealman and south of Olive. Okay, good. Don, anything else you want to add? No, I'm good. Okay, great. Thank you, Don.

Um All right. Well, any other reports, Carlos? All all good. All good. All right. Uh, anybody else got anything? Okay. That being the case, we'll call the meeting to a close at 8:13. Thank you, everyone. Good job. Wow. Four.