Planning & Community Design Commission - Regular Meeting

Chairman, you are set. Okay. Okay. Well, tonight's we'll start tonight's city of Valvette Plann and Community Design Commission for April 2nd, 2026 to order. Madam Secretary, will you please call the role? Certainly. Robert Jurgiel, present. JennaNat, present. Tim Spiegelass, absent. Absent. Sam Wallock, present. Felicia Ford, absent. and Laura Ragdale present

and myself Petri Pal present. Let it also be known that our staff lies our sta city council liaison uh Brian Lewis is in attendance as well as our staff liaison Scarlet Tjo's uh director of planning community development department Dawn Dodie senior planner and Jack Carswwell planning and zoning administrator so appreciate everybody in attendance which we have none and we do not have anybody on on line too. Is that correct? That's correct, sir.

Okay. So, we're going to kind of skip the intro and then we're going to skip the public comments and we'll move on to new business item A, which is seven Lisa Drive. Jack, good evening, commission. So, before you tonight is 7 Lisa Drive. 7 Lisa Drive is before you for a site plan variation. This house was before you guys in June of 2025. It was approved on the night that it was before the commission. It then came back for an addendum on November 6th for a material change and that they are now um we spoke with the petitioner. The petitioner's buyer would like to have a pool upon occupancy. So they would like that to be part of the project and have the pool handled as part of the permit during the time that they're going about the home. So we wanted to bring the pool before you guys to make you aware that this pool is now coming in. However, the pool square footage and patio square footage is all numbers that would have been approved administratively. So, if they had waited, you know, for the building permit and the house to be closed, came in with a pool, that pool would have just gone through that building permit process and not come before you guys. Um, just to give you guys some little numbers, 523 ft for the pool, 633 ft for the patio. They don't hit the 5 foot or sorry, the 5% flatwork number. They don't hit the 10% accessory structure coverage number. Um they don't hit exceed their lock coverage as well as the only thing is the pool crosses over the rear yard setback. However, our accessory code allows pools to be um as far away from the property line as much as 10 ft. The max you know you can't go closer to the property line than 10 feet. So they are about 30 or 27 feet away from the property line there.

Okay. Can you just go back? It's within the I misunderstood what you said. It's not within the setback. It is not within the rear yard setback, but with our accessory structure code, pools are allowed to extend up to 10 ft away from the rear yard setback. What's the rear yard setback? The rear yard setback's like 31 ft. Oh, okay. I didn't realize it was that high. Um, that's a 20,000 foot lot. Um, and pools in our code would allow up to on this size of a lot would allow administrative pools up to 1,000 square ft. So they are about at um 523. So they're at half of that which they don't even tick the first check mark for the 10,000 foot lots for pools with this size pool.

So am I understanding right are they selling the house renovating the house? So Mckelby owns the house currently. Um, and they had they when they appeared before the commission, they didn't have a buyer yet. And then during the pro building process, the buyer came in said they wanted a pool and they wanted it built upon prior before occupancy rather than going through the permitting process afterwards. Is there existing pool? There was an existing pool. It was demoed. Okay. Mhm. And the house is not being demoed. The house is No, the house is already demoed. I think I don't know. I don't think it's completed through the building permit process in terms of issu like No, it's still under construction. It's still under construction. Yes. So, we only have to review because of the timing.

They added the pool and we wanted to bring it before the commission for um input as the pool, but also making sure that we got the mailings out to the community and that everyone was aware that that site plan has now changed and has added a pool. And as a result of those mailings, I don't know if Carlos has, but I have not received any concerns from any of the neighbors regarding the pool. very good with the pool already the pool in the previous home was more centralized and kind of in the same shape um but now they've just you know moved the orientation a little bit. Okay, great. Thanks, Jack. Anybody else have any questions or comments for Jack or Staff? Thank you.

Thank you. Um any other further discussion on this item? That being said, do I hear a motion? Yeah, we would request if a motion is considered that the motion be to add the pool and flatwork to the approved uh community design review for this uh seven Lisa Drive. Great. Do you have a example motion? How about a so moved? There you go. There we go. Nice job. That's keeping things moving. That's my please call the vote. Second. Need a second. Second. and seconded by Laura Ragdale. Okay.

On the motion to add the approval to the approved uh new home uh community design review plans. Commissioner Ragdell approved. Commissioner Nat approved. Commissioner Powell approved. Commissioner Wallock approved. Commissioner Jurgel approved. So the motion passes unanimously 5 to zero. So we'll note this to the applicant. Good, good, good. Okay. So no other new business. We'll move on to item four which is discussion regarding petition review process.

So last commission meeting I was here before you guys discussing the uh review process to provide you know a little bit more information regarding that. Um I'm still currently in the brainstorm process of working on this PCDC review guide of kind of getting like all of this information kind of in one place so that you can use it for you know petitioners, community members and staff resources. Um the pages that are kind of pasted on this slide are just examples. I have, you know, a documentation guide that serves as a checkbox for the um, you know, petitioners to go through. I have a I was taking some notes from Clayton's um, ARB board and how they went about it and they have a very good section about like frequently asked questions and trying to go about that. So, I'm kind of putting together a frequently asked questions sheet. Um, as well as some of the information Carlos and I were discussing was when we see these site plans, we see the project data tables and the property information tables and those are pretty helpful, but those are not really required in terms of a submission standard. So, it would be nice to see those more uniform just so that information is flat and straightforward in front of you guys as well where you can see, hey, this is the sideyard setback or this is, you know, our front building line so that we have that information. So, we're kind of working through um looking at those submission standards and editing those. The guide will also include, you know, the review timeline flowchart that's still, you know, I want to build it out just so that I can take into account the full guide and then make that review that flowchart a little bit more um in more in depth with the information that's on here. And then it's going to have, you know, the the uh frequently asked questions, a documentation list, the submission standards, an application copy on there with um, you know, some sheets to additional resources as well as, um, I put together a directory as well. It doesn't have any of your guys' contact information, but it just says your name and your, you know, the status that you are on the commission. And then it has all of our staff information to get in contact with us as well. Um, in terms of the submission standards, last week or sorry, last meeting when we were here, we were talking about um the

complications that we sometimes run into reviews with holding, you know, a 500 foot patio or, you know, 600 foot patio to the same standards as a new home. So, I was just asking for the commission just if you guys had any input of we're kind of bouncing through some ideas and we were looking at some um different like tiering of standards if that makes sense in terms of like low impact improvements versus moderate impact improvements and then your major developments which will be your new homes and those new homes will be subject to all of those submission standards. Um, so I was trying to come to you guys before to ask if you guys had any input or insight on how to kind of break up the moderate versus the um low impact because we do run into those challenges with uh you know the a lot of different triggers in terms of or thresholds in terms of our code where you Oh, sorry. Yes, Miss Ps. No, I was I think that's a that's a great idea because it seems over like overly burdensome for really minor project what I would consider minor projects. Maybe somewhere between the moderate and the larger would be an addition versus a tear down

and a new a completely new build. Um and then flat work being the simplest, you know, of all the the thing of all the projects that you would look at. But I definitely think that there should be some gradation of how much review we're talking about and like this pool that we just saw that you know even an administrative you know that this was this complied all we needed really was Carlos to sign off. We didn't really need to see that today. Well, we had to sign off on to document that we saw the change because the site plan review,

but I mean that just extended again to a homeowner and therefore the cost of development and therefore the affordability of development. Um, and so I think that there are things within the low threshold that could be done more administratively than we didn't need to see that. I mean, I I just don't think that we really add anything. And I think that's the answer is what are we adding if you want something to come before us? And something that staff, sorry, something the staff did talk about was trying to like uh increase those numbers in terms of like, you know, flatwork is at 5% or 500 square feet. What if we up the square footage of the flatwork before it has to come to you? But if it does exceed 5% of the lot, then we do take it before you or something. But staff are in the conversations of brainstorming through that. and it's going to be, you know, I want to get this review guide kind of more codified and then bring it before you guys to show you, you know, more of a finalized product just to get your input on it. And

I do think though if when you do bring it to us, I would do that in three separate, you know, let's just talk about the low threshold, okay, things first so that we can cover everything and and not be feel rushed then when we get to the important, you know, the big things. I guess I don't, you know, I just think if we split it up, we'll we'll do a better job than just saying, "Oh, here's the here's the whole ordinance." Yeah. You know, we're never going to go through an entire ordinance in one session and have it be meaningful. So, that's just my thought. Well, sweet.

One other thought Okay. Sorry. Sure. One other thought I have and you know this is maybe easier said than actually done is um not just size being a factor in determining whether or not it's admin but like whether or not there's some aesthetic review that's part of it you know flat work is flat work. Yeah whether it's 5% or 10%. No, I suppose there's a certain percentage where it dominates the property and then that does become sort of like an aesthetic issue. So, I don't know that's more conceptual than it is definite. So, I'll leave you to think about how to

ponder that. But to Petri's point, like there needs to be some like aesthetic judgment that's going into it. Otherwise, we're not I don't feel like bringing a whole lot to rendering a decision. Yeah. Yeah, if I can add and there's two components. There's that two-dimensional view and then a three-dimensional view. And I think that's what we're trying to separate what exactly what design input is a commission providing in a two-dimensional product that's flat. Now, there there are and the larger ones where we do want some input on on storm water and inspect, but really on those larger ones. The second thing too is like this was we put this together because it was easier for the commission to kind of see what was going on, but this is part of what they're submitting for the application. I mean, we we are getting the full detail that you would have seen, but it really gets lost, you know, in in that process and it's really more for us and and and when they're out there doing the construction. So, it it's trying to, you know, to simplify in there. And the other thing too in in this, you know, Jack's still kind of holding that they have to provide a streetscape. Well, you're not, you know, there is the streetscape right here because the pool's completely behind. Uh, yeah.

Right. Right. So, the the end goal, I think, is what Jack Mr. Carwell is trying to do is just kind of, you know, put a little bit more common sense into that process and streamline it. I think in there. And again, I think staff you know, is still going to require the the the details that we you'd traditionally see um in there for the permitting, too. So,

is there a way just to add some exceptions to certain things, you know, rather than redoing the whole thing? So the complications like I that I've run into when trying to like tar all of these accessory structures out and different improvements is you know like commissioner wall was saying with the size is not the only thing to be you know part of the review and part of that tiering but then you know there are these different complications that come up with it may not be it may be size you know permitted but then all of a sudden it's over a certain setback and then now it has to come before you guys. So it's certain you know there are different parameters that we look at in terms of the setbacks but then also now it's not only based off size and then you know what happens when it triggers the arborist report or what happens when now it triggers you know engineering where it comes to these different all these different thresholds and I'm trying to you know do these different examples and figure out how these could fall under these tiers but you know it's kind of more of a case by case basis too so we'll have to see how it works as it you know is active.

Yeah. on your point about oh now it goes into the setback to me unless it's an item for um the zoning oh my god I can't think of the name of the zoning board um pardon me

zoning zoning board of administration yeah um to me if something is in the setback it's a problem and it shouldn't it shouldn't even come to us they should just be told you're not you're inside the setback back and you can't do that. So, redraw it and get it in the setback. There's a reason for the setback. We all agreed to the setbacks. Whatever us and in council has done, I don't see any reason why. And they could always appeal it. Yeah. They can go to the board of adjustment. Sorry. And they would go there first, too.

And so, like to me, I you just mentioned that and I thought, wait a minute, have we we approve have we ever approved anything that for whatever reason we allowed them in the setback? Well, so for instance, you're there will be a new item coming up down the line that's a pool and the pool extend the flatwork rule is you know there's a certain rule that allows certain flat work to go over a sideyard setback driveway. Yeah. But and also certain size of you know patios and such. So it's also tricky because this lot is a corner lot so they do have two front edges and everything. So it's going to be a particular case by case basis but like you guys will see that this flat work extends but it doesn't extend more than 10 ft you know past the pro you know to the property line. So there's certain things, but then it's trying to work in those thresholds to make it more

I guess that what I'm getting to is kind of the point that I was making last time, which is I think there's a lot of things that should be done administratively that to to to not wedge the circle in the square hole, but to make sure that it does comply and that we're not, you know, continually allowing all these exceptions. um that should all be resolved before it ever we ever see it is is sort of my thought process on this is some things I just don't think really we're some things don't fit you know quarter lot that has two front yards

there should be rules about that though there should be rules about setbacks on a corner lot and and if they have a problem with the setback then they need to go to the board of adjustment and and and try to make their case that somehow that that yard is unusual enough to require a deviation from the standard. Isn't the board of adjustment another board within all of that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you appeal to the circuit court if you don't win your you're adjusting the zoning ordinance. So, we have a zoning ordinance.

It lays out the rules. If for some reason you have a weird shaped property that has some unusual feature like a mountain in the middle of it and you can't do flat work within the setbacks, you can go to the board of adjustment and say, "My property is weird. I need I I need a variance." But you don't just get a variance just because you want one. You have to show there's something about your property. We We don't have the discretion to operate outside of the I would think so. Like we have not done that as far as I know. As long as we're clear that we're not we're not doing that.

And Commissioner Pow's correct, but it just depends on how the ordinance is written. So, somebody could not create a three-dimensional structure and encroach into the yard setback areas. What about retaining walls? Pardon? What about retaining walls?

Retaining walls are exempt in the code yet. Those are specifically called out. Uh so is flat work. you know, that can go up to a certain distance. In in some of these though, the way the code is written is in an effort to because we have a one, you know, one zoning type of district applied to a variety of different properties. Uh there are sections in the code that allow for what we call variations and that the commission has the authority to consider uh some leniency in the setback for specific type of structures. uh but that requires the commission approval and the reason the city does that is the commission is looking at it from a planning and an aesthetic standard. The board of zoning adjustment has rigid rules of what can be considered uh in there and it has to most of it deals with a hardship or u making the property uniable or usable for for the user and that's pretty it's got a very high threshold. So therefore, the way our code is written, adopted by the council, is to provide some leniency on some items. A pool is one, and you know, like Jack had noted, the property uh that was before you has a a uh I believe like a 30-foot setback, but the city allows a pool to go into that setback area, but can be no closer than 10 ft from the rear.

Makes sense.

Same with the sideyards. We had that one gentleman, I think, that was on uh Dolores. He wanted to put a door on a garage and have a sidewalk off in there, but he was already too clo he was 5 feet from the property line and therefore that isn't you know 5t is the bare minimum. So uh he he had to redesign or remove the door the door in that process. So there are some things and we do it for specific purpose. Fences is another one. Commission has seen several fences uh in there that the council specifically removed it from the board of adjustment because they have a higher threshold and put it in in the laps of the commission to use your better judgment, you know, in terms of something makes sense on the specific property.

You go back to the next slide. Sorry. And then the last thing is uh while you know staff are just working through this process of getting these tiers smoothed out um if you go to the next slide Carlos what you what I'm going to do in the future for the staff reports is I'm going to give you guys the submission list just of those standards and say a pool does come in and they you know I'm going to do my review. I'm going to go through that submission list and I'm going to say hey these are critical to staff's analysis and these need to be part of your revisions. And then for instance, if it was a pool and they didn't mark the HVAC system on the plans, I'm going to just mark it red and text for you and it's just going to be a page in your staff report that shows that these are the submissions that you know the petitioner chose to not put on their plans. And if you guys feel that it's necessary, then we can go down the route and say like, "Hey, we think that HVAC does need to be on the plans. Let's go with that." Or you guys can then seek the information that they, you know, chose to not or did not think that was applicable to the project. So, we'll just have that as an extra component of the staff report. And the stuff on the right is I'm going to do uh my review notes a little bit differently, too, is I would always send them just a list of all of the submission standards that they are not um or that they're deficient in. Those plans will come back. We'll see some of them addressed and some of them, you know, are just left out. And that way, I'm going to, you know, make it so that these are the ones that they know that are critical for the review. And then I will let them, you know, decide if they don't want to, then they can vouch before the commission and the commission can decide if they are necessary or not for that portion. But, you know, I'm going to call out all of the necessary information and make sure that we get all of the stuff that staff finds uh critical for the review before the commission.

Okay, good. Carlos, next slide, please, whenever you're ready.

So, then I just wanted to quickly touch on the trees. Um, we had talked about the text changes. I'm still working with the staff discussion and we're still discussing the portion related to the off-site trees and how that would work towards the calculation in our ordinance. But then just the one other portion I wanted to discuss is it was funny because today internally we had a little technical difficulty with the printer. So that's why you guys will see that you have significantly less paper in front of you today. So I was just curious about like the direction we want to go. If we're still, you know, all good with paper copies, we can. But if there was some way of like, you know, limiting the amount of paper. I was trying to get these numbers to you so I could show you how many packets I print out and how many pages each time of the that we see, but I'm still struggling to find that number. So, I think I'm going to have to actually go in and calculate, you know, count the, you know, this is how much material we provided you at this meeting and I can find that. But

it is still a lot. A lot. I appreciate that it is a lot. And maybe the whole tier system can also dictate the paper, the amount of paper. You know, the more complicated something is, the more paper I'm going to want to see. Um, the hard part is you don't know how

you don't know how complicated something is. And maybe we just leave that up to you all. I mean, I think the staff report is good. I mean, this is the first city I've been in that where we have a whole screen in front of our own screen and can really look at stuff and you you all do a great job of highlighting the areas that we're talking about so that we're not hopelessly lost. But like I don't know that we really even needed this piece of paper tonight, the pool. Yeah. And I printed I printed that out last minute when the printer started working just so that we had something for you guys to show. Uhhuh. like with like the elevations sometimes those are really helpful when we're looking at certain things. Okay. Sweet. Sweet. Okay.

And I think that's something that you know we tal discussed internally too. No matter what, you'll always get the staff report in the plans. You know, the certain necessary components of the plans just, you know, if there's other additional resources or something, sometimes I end up printing, you know, some text amendments that maybe we can just throw on the screen versus the whole packet or if there's neighbor or comments that neighbors or people have. I think you should print that out because sometimes we don't see those. And then you get the whole chain too if it's in an email chain all printed out on that sheet because even like sometimes when I review the agenda I'm not seeing the the comments that are coming in last minute and stuff like that. Sweet.

Okay. Yeah, that could work too. Just just brainstorming ideas just to see because or we could just chew up all the trees that were knocking down.

So, just be on the lookout. We'll be staff will be back before you again with the more information regarding that PCDC review guide, the the tiered submissions, and then we'll get this tree ordinance a little bit more, you know, codified before you guys was those text changes. And we're never gonna get it perfect, but I think if we you print it out something less, we can always ask Carlos to pull that up and bring it up. He's always really good about, you know, if we want to see a Google Street View or whatever, I think, you know, we could always do that as well. Sounds good. Awesome. Thank you guys. Thanks, Tre.

Okay, good discussion. Any other further comments? All right. So, we'll move on to item five. Analysis of current application of ordinance 2821. Oh, did I you jumped ahead? No. Hey, that's that's good. All right, we'll move on item six, 2024 comprehensive plan update. Carlos,

we'll move uh quickly through the beginning part, but everybody's familiar with the comprehensive plan vision. We've talked about it. our community goals, uh the 10 that are, uh outlined in in the plan, the comprehensive plan and priorities from the council. And then we've gone through our survey process and we've identified some uh areas that we're going to be focusing on. I'm going to talk real quickly about the new residential districts and housing affordability. Uh just some data for the commission as we go through and start looking at that. At our last meeting, we kind of talked about using the northeast quadrant, which is the hilltop arrowhead area as a as a good uh uh area because it's pretty well controlled and getting some information regard uh in there. And there's about three or the four different type different housing types uh in there that all fall under one residential zoning district uh in there. So, I wanted to kind of talk about just a little bit about that just to get you guys thinking in there. Uh, as we talk about affordability, uh, back in 2023, Stacker, which provides, uh, news feeds for for papers, uh, Olivet, Missouri was in the top 50 of the, um, highest percentage change in housing values uh, in there. And you see in in the the change of the cost of h the median cost of housing

in Missouri and

in Missouri. Yes. We were uh number 24 out of 50 communities in uh in Missouri. Uh this year we're no longer there. Uh you can see back in 2024 the one-year price change was about 5.2%. Here this year we were at 2%. uh communities that stayed there were that and were also in the top 50 back in 2023 were Crave Core, Leoo, Warren View, uh all those their their housing values were increasing much faster than than ours uh in there. So that doesn't say anything, but it, you know, it it does reflect what we're kind of seeing in our permitting in terms like we're not having that much new construction as we were in in in the past. and the market's kind of slow for various other reasons. Then we look here in terms of the three primary communities in the Leoo school district. Uh Creve Corp, Frontac Leoo and Olivet. And again uh we are the most affordable of the of those four. Uh I mean Huntley is also part of the district and I forgot I think uh Crystal Lake and there may be one more.

It's not showing up on this screen is it? who yeah I didn't see see the need but the goal is there like we talk about there there's the affordability and attainable homes you know in looking at can you can you define that because never in my universe was $5717,000 affordable considered affordable so what what is our what is our standard for affordable and attainable and

and that I think that's the discussion we want to have in Because if I throw in uni, I had University City uh prior and I was going to throw in Overland, but they're like well below they were at 250 to 125. So it it's just in what what do we want that environment or that to be in as we take a look at that? And are these numbers just within the entire city of Alvette or our our subject area that we're thinking about looking at? This is the entire city of the entire city. Okay.

So, we'll we'll we're going to now try to narrow it down and we'll talk about the the northeast quadrant to show you what the median household value is in there. That takes a little bit more calculation pulling things from county piece by piece in there. But I wanted to give you a framework uh in there. The other thing that the the graphs are very similar you know in terms of rise and fall and stuff like that. So it which is pretty interesting and you can see the front neck in Leoo has a much steeper increase compared to all of that in CF core. So

but what you're not seeing here and what this does not have the nuance of is I doubt very seriously there is a new house in Alvette that costs $517,000. Oh great correct. you know that's that is an average and so I think we need to know okay of that 517 you know how many are you know 517 and below what are the actual numbers and you know what is the upper limit because there's not in our universe a five a brand new $517,000 house anywhere near here in my in my thinking that's just

I think we do have to get nuanced here and that's something I We can look within a 5 mile radius to what the new house constructions. Odds are Overland's not going to have something comparable. We may find something in Maryland Heights. Well, are they when you say houses, are these standalone homes or single family homes, new construction for we're not putting in like an avenue or something. Kind of an apple per apple. Honestly, I think you have to stay in the Leoo school district, you know, because the big driver. It is. There's one way to reduce property values and that's

but if you look at university city I mean they have a wide you know from unfortunately south to north you know variation in housing prices like we do. I mean, I I I think that there's probably there's less building going on there, but in terms of having modest housing, there's a lot of modest housing in University City as equally as there is very high to normalize it based on the price per square foot of the lot. But yeah, isn't City though what the size of U city much larger than 33,000 people?

It's 33,000. So, we're already like five times. They're four times that. But that my point is they're going to have so many more houses which gives you more diversity options and some of the houses are older I think and but it's I it's an interesting challenge because I think having Leoo school district drives us up immediately and we seem to be the most affordable and I'm saying it's affordable but most affordable of those in Leoo school district right right now. Um, and I'm I could I share your concern or challenge in the sense of like I want to keep people's housing growing, but I also want to make this a an entry point for families, you know, and uh it's a it's a constant challenge.

Yeah. One of the things too we can take a look at based on what Commissioner Pow's uh talking about. One is there there is we there may be the ability that we can uh in the cost of a of a new home, you know, remove the cost of the land and we can look at comparables of just land between different communities and and school districts as that plays a factor. Uh but then we can go into the cost per square foot because that should be pretty well consistent. uh uh in there the the materials are going to cost me the same in U City, Crecore, Leoo and and all of that. Uh where the difference may be is is the size of the home. And again, once you multiply that cost per square foot, the larger house is going to have, you know, and maybe look at it from that perspective. Uh and so we can we can pull some of those numbers.

Any other questions? No, this is great though. This information is fantastic.

Uh the next thing is just kind of what what is going on in all of that right now. This is coming from our permit tracking system that started in 2021 and kind of identifies how many houses were demoed um you know I apologize for that January up on top but for the past five years and then how many new homes were built in in the same past five years. Uh and you can see uh you know COVID or pre-COVID it it was pretty slow. Now, we have this 19, but a majority of that is the Irvington rhyme homes that were removed for the uh the cross the uh the uh

a map would I think a map of the locations of these would be really helpful to see. I mean, it's only 21 homes, so I mean to me I it seems like it would be helpful to know, well, we're really demoing homes south of Olive for the street. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I understand. Maybe it's more, you know, in the permit issue, but I think mapping is always really helpful to see where your things are happening. I don't quite understand it though. I see the 19 star, but then it that's including 21 homes. Why doesn't that match up? That was on my end. Sorry. That that was my mistake here. Well, is it 19 or 21? I think it it should have been 21.

Okay. Oh, okay. So I apologize because again I 19 plus and 21 is more than 19 and I kept it here. I didn't change this right here uh either. That's my mistake. So again the the the number jumps up because we were removing a whole subdivision in there. But you can see at the end of the calendar year for December of 2025, uh we had nine single family homes that were demoed. Mhm.

In terms of new single family homes and permits issued. And again, I apologize for the star here. Uh 2021 we had four at the end of the calendar year. 2025 we had 10. And you can see uh the amount per year. The reason I put the star on 11 is the Long Acres. Long Acres or Birdie Lane had two houses that were demoed but eight houses that were constructed. Oh yeah. So it there's you know Yeah. You know consider that and we also did several lot splits in which you had one house raised and two houses built. Yeah.

In there. So did did want to bring that to your attention and I think like uh M commissioner Pow had indicated mapping these would probably give us a a lot of insight too in there. So we'll look at that. And again I'm sorry about this part here. That should have been I should have changed that. What year were those uh houses across the street demoed? it would when they demoed the houses it was quite a while that you know before they started clearing the lots fully and well before they started building. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's probably it could have been 200.

That's that's just my memory of it,

you know. Do we have rules around the model the amount of differentiators between each model? So, um, where I'm getting at is if I'm a McKelby or a Douglas properties or something like that and I'm working on one street and I just I just buy house by house by house, you know, year after year after year, every two years. Do we have rules around that those homes that are being built by the same developers have to be of a certain differentiator from the others? Or can these developers potentially come in and just build the same three two models over and over and create a planned community within all of it?

They're able to they can just create it's a good it it is up to this commission. These are all brought through the commission. Um, you know, that was brought up at one of the previous meetings. We now show you the last three homes in our reports and hopefully that that assists the commission. And there's been discussions pointly with with the petitioners regarding isn't this a similar home to the one we we previously saw. Their response is well, you approved that previously, so I went the safe route and brought a similar home. not advocating for them but it's been a discussion in there but yeah eventually a lot of them still get approved

uh in there we do bring the information to the commission's attention uh there are guidelines that are in place in terms to to consider like the the neighborhood but you could still you know that one house you know if it's one story and in theory it can fit in any neighborhood even though they all look the same

it's up to the commission if they're I don't know how to term it if there is a concern or or so you know once one gets denied they get the you know they start thinking about it the more diversity of different homes too leads into higher you know construction costs if these builders build what they're used to that you know that oh I know it's a cheaper way to go if it's already been done before but is that I guess I'm wondering is that our concern is keeping their construction cost down or is our concern keeping the aesthetic of the community?

What we need to talk about, we haven't decided, you know, uh we brought it up a few times where we kind of had um concerns that a lot of the new houses, you know, are all looking the same, you know. So, that's been brought up, which is why they started adding. Okay, here's the last couple ones that they've done. And we also look at kind of the streetscape of how that matches up, you know, on that street because I guess if construction costs in your minds are going up, then the cost of homes are always also going up, right? So,

so it's trying to get that balance, you know, but if you look, I did some searches on Zillow for kind of like new homes and I looked for, you know, what are the cheapest ones that are out there and most of them are out in St. Charles or, you know, that area, but they had some University City. So I went and looked at start at those University City ones and they had like two or three but they were all the exact same and they you know I don't know if it would have passed our you know review

and that's a little bit of a drawback is how do we get smaller houses cheaper houses but are unique enough you know for for for our area and I it's it's a judgement that we're going to have to decide Wonder if part of that is setting some boundaries around the demo of what helms get demoed. I mean, you know, someone deciding what's um salvageable versus tear down. We started Petri brought that up.

Petri, do you have anything you want to add on that particular topic? I I think one of the several thoughts came to mind as you were talking and one is is that I am less bothered by oh that same house is here and on this street and this street and it's you know diverse. I'm more interested in having houses all be within the same sort of weight and massing in on a street than that that it not be cookie cutter. I mean let's face it suburban homes they were all cookie cutter for a reason. and it was to drive the cost down for the most part. Um, you know, so you doing doing the same, we're framing all these houses on the same day. So, yes, they look very similar. There's a reason for that. It was it was cost. Um, so my issue with the demolition of any house as a matter of right is that there is a disincentive in my view for you to maintain your house. I live in a small house. you've been in my in my front yard, you know, it's a small house. Um, if I was looking at and saying in terms of, "Look, I know my house is going to be bulldozed. Why would I go in and put in a 50,000 or $75,000 kitchen? That would be stupid." Did I do that? Yes, I did. Was that a good financial move on my part? No. So, I'm just going to let my house deteriorate because I'm going to it's it's a dozer. it's going to be bulldozed by the next owner. And and here we have a a general plan that says we want to encourage people to maintain their houses and get the old people to do nice things to their houses. Well, our policies are not matching up with what we're saying. And when it comes to that dynamic, um there's a house here off of Dealman that I noticed the survey things are,

you know, up and the house is in looks to be in considerable disrepair. And I just know what's happening. It's been sold. It's going to be a dozer. And that was a nice house at one time and somebody did the mathematics and said, you know, it's just not worth putting any more money into this house when the next owner is going to be Mckelby. Well, the s the sad part is because I've been down this road many times that it's cheaper to demo. Yeah, absolutely. Than it is to

And if and and the thing that I always loved about Alvette, which I don't think anybody's mentioned, I don't think ever here, which I I'm sad about, is that, you know, we aren't university. Our housing stock is is very tailored to, in my view, mid-century modern, which is now historic. Um, and so we are demoing midcentury baby boomer oriented housing. And if we want families to live here that aren't millionaires, we have to go back to maybe what we used to be, which is mid-century modern simple one-story houses that, you know, don't have a lot of fancy this and that, but but are good family homes. What would I'm curious and well I'm not disagreeing with you because I you and I want similar things but I'm actually

will challenge then how would you do that because the market's going to bear what the market's going to bear people well and also I would say some people let their houses go because they can't afford to keep it up and they want to still live there as long as they can but they really can't afford and to your point they get to the end and if the cost is this and the cost is why this council is and even the city council is not going to change the capitalist nature of the economy and things like that. So, I'm honestly open to ideas of what could we do without doing crazy enforcement things like you can't build two stories or you can't you must build

Well, I I I guess I disagree. I I think you can have actual massing requirements that require you to if you are in a line of singlestory mid-century modern homes, you are not allowed to put a big ass farmhouse makebelieve house from Joe and Chip Gaines. I mean, like, you know, it makes no sense to me. And you think that somebody is not going to want to buy that house because it's not a farmhouse? I doubt it. We're in Leoo school district. We can we can do rules that keep the character of our community. And if we're willing, if we want to say we want to be Leoo Light or we want to be Creve Core or we want to be front neck, fine. Let's just say it out loud. That's the hard part. But if we wanted to keep the character and the size limitations that we now have, we have to be firm in what we approve and we can develop rules around that.

I there's no question we can develop. Well, but I also think there's potential litigation that comes with that because there's always we say this house already if this street already has it's only mid-century monitored and we say, "Well, if you live on a house like that, we're not going to allow you to demo. We're not going to allow you to build anything." But this street over here that's already got demolitions, we're going to let you do it. Somebody comes and says, "You're not letting me do what I want to do with my house at that point." Yeah, that's a good point.

And that and that, my friend, is is the way development works in a lot of communities. You know, if you go over into University City and any of their historic neighborhoods and you see, you're not going to see a mid-century modern amongst 25 colonials. You're just not going to see it because they're not going to approve it. The locals are not going to approve it. The planning commission is not going to approve it. Council is not going to approve it. They want it to all be consistent. I've come from several communities where we dictated the rules about the aesthetic matching what's already there. And litigation or no litigation, it's possible to do. It really is. It's just a matter of whether you have the hood but to do it.

I'm gonna and if it's important, if you think it's important, I mean, it's up to council. If if council if this the the electorate doesn't like it, they vote you out.

I'm gonna throw out a couple things. Not necessarily contrary to what you're saying, but some of the other things you got to be careful with the older houses is you when I was out walking around and you know, but I saw a lot of places that have lead based paint that are in deteriorating conditions, asbestous materials that are in deteriorating conditions, you know. Um It's it's something that um people probably aren't aware of and if you know that could be affect that increases the cost of renovating those those types of houses and sometimes is a reason why they don't you know do anything with it because they know it's a hazard and they just kind of let it go. So, it it's it's I think some awareness is going to be helpful, you know, you know, for these. Um, but the other flip side is I I had a house in Chvy Chase, small house, was great, loved it. Only had one full bathroom and I had four kids, you know, and two girls going into high school. I I couldn't even take a shower, you know. I had to join the Jay just to take a shower. But you didn't tear it down.

We didn't tear it down, but there's another story to that, too. But, you know, so there and but we wanted to stay in all of that. We wanted our kids to still be going to Old Bonum because it's such a great school. So, having that ability to, you know, find get a bigger house, you know, was huge for us.

Um, one interesting thing about the the the family that we sold the Chvy Chase house to, they didn't do any maintenance. They it it went it was pretty rough and they sold it to a contractor, but the contractor didn't tear it down. He he cleaned it up, renovated it, and and resold it. So, I think, you know, I think there's a difference between like some of the homes that are there that it's it's worth renovating. There are some houses that are very tired, you know, that are almost condemned that probably need to be torn down. How we balance that with trying to get people to keep their or maintain their houses is a tricky thing. You know, do we enforce, you know, maintenance requirements? I don't think anybody's going to like that, you know, but

we have we have requirements. We have the city has Yeah. So I come I come from a very different and unique perspective on this because I grew up in the northeast quadrant. I lived through the whole being bought out by for Walmart and not happening and people not maintaining their homes after that. Yeah.

To then I lived my mom's house was on Ram Court. My house was on Irvington. When my mom passed away, I ended up selling her house um and still had mine on Irvington and then was bought out for Irvington Place. There is some homes that are in desperate need of repair over in the northeast quadrant. You walk that area, there's some that desperately need repair. It was we wanted to keep our son in Leoo school district. He was going to be a freshman. I can't tell you how many houses we looked at throughout Prieet like at well out of my price range. Like if it was for sale, I went and looked at it. if it was anywhere close to the point that my son at 14 was almost six foot. We'd go into some like I remember going into a house over off a villa, his head was like scraping the ceiling to go down into the basement

and I'm going, "Yeah, this isn't going to work." Like like he's still growing. Like this isn't going to happen. But I also we ended up buying up of Warson over in Queensbrook and like I love my my house and it's would be like one of those mid-century modern um houses. I love it. It was flipped. It was it's really nice. However, I have gone back over to the Northeast Quadrant many times. I know people over there sell like and like what some of those new houses are going for over there. There's no way.

And people are buying them. But like I think there is no way I would spend that kind of money to then drive, not even drive, walk six houses and see a house that the windows are falling out of. And you're paying $700,000 for a house in four doors from you. like the windows are falling out like no like there's so I like I see both sides of it but like I also know that when the whole Walmart deal didn't go through that this city came in and told people they had to do certain maintenance and like they were told like there's people that had to pour new driveways to the cost of 30 and $40,000 and if they didn't they were like they had to come to So I mean the city does do those things. So I mean

but that was tough for those people. It it was and but it was either do that or pay a fine. So yeah. So I mean like those things did happen. So I don't know. Yeah. Like I mean I I don't know that I I don't know the answer. I think it's I see the value in keeping some of the smaller homes because I feel very fortunate. Like I'll be the first to tell you I think I overpaid but I had really no choice but I'm happy with my house. So then again it's the way it is. So So how do we decide like what houses to keep? What houses

like we are in Queens Brook and Kingsbrook there can be no two stories as part of our HOA. They're not allowed. So, that's something that the neighborhood has decided. Do you have any tear downs or new houses in there? That's interesting. Yep. The house right next to me applied to get to do a like an addition for a twotory before we moved in. Yeah. And they wanted to do a twotory and they had to get so many people in the subdivision to sign like an agreement and then they ended up it's not the people that live there. They ended up selling because they're like, I'm we're not dealing with us, right?

So, so it didn't happen. How long have they had that rule in place? I don't know. I don't know. I guess I Yeah, it's part of like Yeah. Well, I think Stony Side that the rule is you can't have a twotory. You can't go above a story and a half. So then a developer designed a story and a half and then just put it on repeat down the whole street, you know? So, it's hard. We make rules for one reason, but then there's always an unintended Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's also clear our rules and it I think you clarified this for us, Carlos, is that demolition's a matter of right here. So, we're not going to get a say unless we change that rule because they can do it and then come to us and say, "We want to build this." Well, why don't you keep the house you have? Oh, we built we tore it down last week. Yeah. I I'm wondering on the demolition thing, speaking of like un unintended consequences, if I'm gaming out how that would work. Someone comes to us and they say, "We want to demolish this, you know, McKelie or whatever has bought it. We want to demolish it and build a new house." We say, "No, this looks like a perfectly good nice midcentury modern home that we want to keep." And they say, "Okay."

Then they don't take care of the property for two years. And then they come back and they say, "Look how terrible this property is now." and we're put in a position of saying, "Well, I guess you're right. You know, it is terrible now and now we have to knock it down and build." Well, I think that's where the the code enforcement becomes really important and maintenance important and and I think that is, you know, demolition by and neglect is is a huge problem in the historic preservation realm. And you know, we're seeing it now, but I think the only way to combat that is with a rigorous code enforcement maintenance.

But code enforcement doesn't work either. Oh, I beg to differ. It doesn't. I' I've been dealing with the same issue for over two and a half years. You know, your individual where, you know, things h happen and certainly it does, but I mean, if you look at University City, I can tell you that the housing values would not be anywhere near what they are. um if it wasn't for their rigorous code enforcement. I mean, they're like on you. That's tough when you start going into that code enforcement. It is it's not for the week. No, no, it is. It is not for the week.

And you're you're just there's going to be anger, you know, that's that's created. So, I that's just something to be thinking about. No, it is. It's a decision. Yeah, it is. That's why we need to discuss it and throw it out as options, you know, and say we just have to decide. I would love to see, you know, kind of the cost of the, you know, how much does it cost to build a certain style home, you know, in these different areas and what that looks like. You know, what other options are there? You know,

we've been seeing um houses being built north of all like in the same realm as what we're seeing south big expensive million dollar houses I didn't know not to the same extent but they're they're going up yeah you're you're seeing that kind of the northwest um we're probably seeing more of the more affordable single family homes going up kind of in the northeast and what that what affordability means yeah That's like 600. You're in the mid to high 600. Yeah.

You couldn't afford to buy a new new new place. But there's a difference. Yeah. you know, with that I you know, um so but the existing homes I I think are there still I'd love to see the range of the existing

and kind of a little bit what do they look like, you know, from the outside. One of the things I wanted to notice in terms of the discussion they talked about policy uh in there and right now you know it is as we talked about Queensbrook uh Kingsbrook in there you know the way the current process is is established is they're responsible for the enforcement of that height and if a property owner from the subdivision came in and applied for a permit to put a second level because of the way the code is set and there's nothing wrong I mean the way the code is set is we're obligated to issue them that permit

you know if if we we measure height and there it goes back to this we have this one single family zoning district to fit all uh but we have a lot of unique subdivisions throughout the community and it may be looking at you know what are some of those characteristics um Stony and Heatherwood they're they're great I mean people know that when they go in there, their their height restrictions 25 ft or the city allows 35 ft.

And when somebody comes in, and we've had it before, it's like, you need to go talk to the subdivision uh in there. I mean, I I'm obligated to bring it before the commission, but it's like, you're going to have problems, you know, with the subdivision. You need to go talk to them and then they'll come back with a revised plan uh reducing the height. Now, I will note what that has has done. When you have a two-story home and you have that that height, you're like this. But when you got to address that height, you go like this. And now I got a lot of storm water problems because I got bigger footprints. Yeah. You know, and that that was one of the reason. Yeah. Mhm.

So, you know, so again, going back to to that looking at, you know, what what are you know, what's unique about some of these subdivisions and maybe there are it's not just about lot size, but it may be about heights, you know, building heights. Then that assists the subdivision to kind of maintain that because they can't come to the commission with an excess height. That's a zoning board of adjustment and that would be a difficult thing to prove if everywhere else around you has a one-story height or specific height

uh in there that you can't have viable use of your property there. Uh one of the other things I wanted to know so we give the council uh monthly updates on on our permit in there and you can see uh here this is by fiscal year which starts it goes from uh July to June uh in there. So 22 to 26 and this is kind of the data I had just shared with you about you know six new homes being built in all of that almost to date uh in there but we failed to kind of take a look at we've had 50 existing homes that have been improved whether through additions or renovations and we have a lot of homes where they get flipped where they're not necessarily pulling a permit but they they go in there they clean they paint

they enhance and then turn it around and so we'll we'll gather some of that data There's a lot of housing stock that it's more housing stock that's getting improved than it's getting torn down u in there. And then just so you're aware, so we also give the the the council information on on the cost. So you can see the cost of a new home in all of that in the past three years. Uh it dropped in uh 2025, but it went up to 873 um in 2026. But you could see the cost of a the average cost for a house addition in ET 324,000. Uh the average average cost for an interior improvement, this is a new kitchen, new bath or basement is almost 61,000 is over $61,000. So we're we're we're looking at that. But the the key thing is to look at back in 2024, you know, to do your bathroom. The average bathroom, kitchen, basement remodel was a little over was almost $37,000. It's almost doubled in price.

Wow. The construction cost. And none of these houses got bigger. This is all within the the footprint of the home. Wow. And what's interesting is like the new new homes price isn't that dramatically different. I it's going higher, you know, but it's not double. Well, and the accessory structures dropped by like 60%. And it could be, but it went up from 17,000. So some of that could be somebody, I hate to say, put in a massive accessory structure. And yes, they put in a million dollar accessory structure. They had a race track. Here's the results. It's a big category. And 31 isn't a huge number to play with, but maybe if we look at the media,

I I am a little surprised and I'm kind of encouraged to for the conversation. Total number of new homes, six, you know. So, it's not as many tear down knockdowns as I fear. And we're not a huge community anyway, but I'm glad it's not like 100, you know, but the number of permits has doubled almost. on number of permits for new home for all permits 200 permits have doubled oh number of permits total because I think people well roofs roof plays a huge part of that when there's a hail storm everyone yeah that shot up this yeah one storm does that and everyone

till after till afterwards and we looked looked at that. So, we also gave it the commission the the council information on, you know, the the past three years. What's the average costs of the that we're that the information is being provided? What's the average cost of those improvements?

Wonder why it went down for additions. It could be. There was some pretty significant ones and sizable ones that came in. So, going back to uh to the information. So, again, ultimately we're we're looking at the northeast quadrant. I'm going to get this take this out of the way if that's all right.

Here's I70 and Olive is down here. Uh this is the area. Uh there's 304 housing units in there. We just added 208. uh but also took out 20 the the 19 or 21 uh from Irvington Rhyme. So you know we now have 500 units. These are both multif family, single family and and attached. Uh 200 of those are owner occupied and the total population in here based on the 2027 uh 2020 census was 716. So that's almost 10% of all of that. How many how many uh units are being added with the new

208 and those will be correct. There'll be apartments and this funnels into old bottom right from now Reed. Yeah.

Interesting. It's weird. Yeah, it's weird. So, right in price. Oh, so it's weird because it goes to Reed where I'm at on Warson goes to Spy. Yeah. Yeah. That's Yeah. I mean, like I'm literally like right at Olive and Warson, but we go to Spy. That is very I think the school district decided to split up north of Olive so that there's more diversity between the uh that bottom. Uhhuh. I mean, it's so crazy though. Well, there was a Wasn't there another elementary school up there? Yes. There used to be 10 elementary schools. There was more.

No, in the wood district. There used to be 10 elementary schools. We had more. We had one off Dealman. It was Dealman School. I think we had two Grand View. Grand View. Hilltop, but there was Hilltop school as well. There's Central School where Logos is now. No, that was a middle school. That central school was an elementary school. Oh, dad went there for a while. Then they changed to like an elementary or middle school though eventually. It might have some. Yeah. It was like East Junior High or something. No, East Junior High is the current middle school. West Junior High is where the fifth grade center is. That was Yeah, that's right. The fifth grade center was um

it was originally West Junior High and then it became Westminster and then and then Leoo bought it back. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Where Logos was it? Okay. I think it was.

All right. We'll go back to again you can when just kind of in a visual we'll get more information as as we go through this process. I mean, you can look at the, you know, the the the tan shade here reflects uh 50 to 60 foot wide lots. A majority of these houses were built uh was started in the 1920s through the 1950s. Uh there are some some 1950s vintage as you jump over here. Uh then there's Arrowhead Park. Uh most of those are late 50s, early 60s. Uh they range from 60 to maybe there's a couple that are up to 100 uh feet in in terms of frontage and then you have Hilltop Manor that was built into the 2000s. Those are attached, you know. So there there's a a probability to look at this in in different uh sets and to apply different standards uh uh in those districts that are more reflective of the community. The whole note, I mean, we we approved a two-story home. I think it's at Chickasaw and Hilltop.

My god, that one stands out. Yes. Like sore thumb. Yes. Yes. Like a sore thumb. Mhm. So, but anyway, uh so we're going to be taking a look at that. We'll look at those housing values and try to gather information to see where where that has gone and uh and then kind of look at that as uh probably one of the case studies to kind of go over. I think that's all I had. Be glad to answer if there's any questions. Carlos, this is great. Fantastic. This is exactly what we need to be talking about and looking at and it's great timing with with since we don't have as many uh you know petitions coming in. This is really good stuff.

Right. So, thank you for putting this on. No problem. This is educational. On the blue map, the are these um the different shades of blue. Are these just different census tracks? Yes. getting down to the census block information. It's hard to extract and you the the the level of data gets less and less. Uh I thought I was able to get uh the age of housing stock, but I was not successful in that. But um can we begin to look into that? Can we also find out how many of these are rentals compared to Yes, we can. the the information is not that accurate, but we we can

Yeah. Uh and it's about a little over a third. Now, one of the things working with one of the the subdivisions that was trying to do an amendment or kind of dissolve the the HOA, uh they had to go through a a vote uh in there and they were willing to share what the information they had because there was a lot of rentals that were rental properties because they weren't voting and they needed it part of that that vote. I don't think the HOA uh dissolved yet in there, but that was kind of interesting to see how much uh in there back in prior to 2008, I mean, we had a whole bunch of different banks that had holdings

uh in there with the recession. Uh but since it was all of that, I mean, those turned over quickly. Yeah. Uh in there, but we still have a lot of investment properties. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. So, we'll move on. Any other discussion? If not, we'll move on to other business meeting minutes. I was that due to the printer was it is uploaded as a draft on the site, but I will just I was trying to make a joke. I'm glad you did it and that's great. Uh, so we'll go on to reports.

All right. you have the schedule of events in there. But a couple of things just to inform the commission uh in there at the and since we had missed our last meeting, um the city council did hold three public hearings and consider uh second readings uh for uh well actually it's two public hearings. The the residential solar panels and the data centers. Uh the data centers were adopted. They are now the regulations for the data centers are now in place and that requires them to obtain a special permit. sets up the the separate tiers uh and then uh specifically bans data centers based on the buffer and size uh in there. Uh the rooftop solar panels uh was tabled. It will be considered by the com uh by the council at their next meeting. Uh there was a couple of questions and issues regarding in in in the process and I'll let our liazison talk about the communications component uh in there. But there was also some questions uh regarding um some of the the five I think there were like five conditions that were in place. Uh there was some questions to the council why why regulate color um in there if most of them are pretty consistent. And I think there was it was a a valid concern, but I think it's also a valid coverage point because you never know uh in there and you can find some colorful solar panels uh in place uh in there. Uh number two was in terms of some of the use we used that it should be uh a color comparable to the existing roof where there was some the comment was that maybe the word choice should be compatible. So it was just about the difference between those two words. I did explain to the council that the reason we went with comparable is because it's used 15 times in our municipal code and eight seven of those times are within our zoning and land use

regulations and that was just to stay consistent with that term uh in there. It would be fine if it went either way in there, but the council was going to kind of I I think that aspect that you know was was set. Uh but then there was some questions about some comments uh the the access of comments uh from from the public and then uh I think that's it. A couple of things you brass tap has its ribbon cutting uh April 10th. Uh the um Paris Baguette is working on theirs. I think it's going to be late April. Um in there and unless Jack or Don have anything else to All right. Um I'll call out a date to add on here is election day um April 7th. So get out and vote. Reminder for city council, you can vote for two people um on the ballot and uh for school district, I think you can vote for three. So um so make sure to get out and vote either here, five oaks, or wherever you need to be. Uh to echo kind of what uh Mr. Tjo was saying about the um solar panels. So it it received a lot of feedback. I think you know some of to that point, you know, the comparable colors because we did look online. you can buy red solar panels, you know, if you you want to kind of just give staff the ability to bring that forward to the council, but also the goal of that was to make things move forward similar what we talked about tonight.

So, let me ask you a question. Do you want red the ability for them to have? No, we wanted the ability to the the choice. The thought was we didn't want to just limit specific ones, but if people brought forward a color that didn't seem comparable or compat compat comparable, was that the word? Um comparable with the roof color. It didn't jive. Then staff had the ability to bring it to council to to the commission here to review it. Makes sense. Yeah. So, exactly. That was the whole goal of it is like

Yeah. Bring it if if someone brings something that doesn't make sense. there was a commission, there was a communication error. One of the things we ran into is um some uh various residents had actually submitted emails to uh at the all of that you know general email site um and it had not been received and sent to the city council. So we tabled the discussion for that day to make sure and it was a technical error. It went to spam was not flagged or the other ones were missed and so the staff is actually working to correct that so in the future they won't. Um, apologies were sent to the residents because it was a miss and it shouldn't be and so it was a good catch and I'm glad we TD and we said we'll discuss it the next time. Yeah.

So, um, but yeah, definitely a lot of discussion on that. So, and then just um main thing is a reminder um to vote on the 7th and uh visit our new businesses in town. So excited I got to go to Brass Tap first time the other day. So, check it out. Heard good things about it. Yeah, it seemed to be lively. A lot of people there at lunch and it was exciting. I stopped by there on Saturday and yeah, it was it was quite lively. Looking forward to when the patio opens. Absolutely. You don't know that that will be neat. So, good addition. All right. All right. Any other further discussion? Anybody else have any uh announcements? Seeing none, we'll adjourn at 8:29. Thanks.