Planning & Community Design Commission - Regular Meeting

We'll start tonight Valvette planning community design uh or design commission uh for what is today's date? Uh February 19th, 2026 to order. Acting secretary, would you mind please calling the role? Sure. Petri Pal absent. Jennat present. Tim Spiel present. Felicia Ford present. Sam Wall absent. Ragsdale present. And Chairman Jarrell

present. Let it also be known that our city council leaison, council member Brian Lewis is online. Thanks Brian for being being there. Uh as well as our staff leaison, Carlos Tjo, Alvette's uh planning community development department's director, Don Dodie, senior planner, and Jack Carswwell, planning and zoning administrator. So, thanks everybody for being in attendance. Um, we don't have anybody in the public right now. So, um, and there's nobody online. However, we might have some public comments near the end. So, I think we'll just defer that till the end. And absolutely.

So, we'll move on to old business item three. Uh, this is the text amendment for the light industrial district.

Yes, chairman. I was uh requesting if the commission would reconsider the motion that was taken at our last meeting on December, excuse me, February 5th regarding the recommendation to the council to uh amend our zoning regulations regarding data centers. Uh this is primarily due to uh some feedback we received from the city attorney uh earlier this week and uh we had discussed like this in the process of zoning you can't really exclude something but you could establish regulations to to control uh time place and and things of that that nature. uh she recommended and this was I think brought up uh at one of our prior meetings that there are different sizes of data centers,

right?

And if the city would define the diff variety of data data centers, uh you could exclude the large ones that would be uh incompat incompatible with our with our overall vision or community character and such, especially like the the the large the larger type uh in there. And that's what this um reconsideration would do. We would identify of course the data centers. We would identify four primary types ones those that are accessory to a principal use. So if enterprise had had a data center, you know, kept some of their data in there, you know, things like that. That's not what they operate, but they have have that uh as a function of their services. Uh a minor in which um the building area is 20,000 square feet or less. uh a medium uh data center which is between 20,000 to 999,000 square ft and then a major anything over 100,000 square ft uh in there and there are other types of classifications. This would just kind of identify the three primary types that Alvette would consider minor, medium and major uh in there. By doing that, the the uh oops uh the city could then establish some uh some reg uh regulations regarding uh each individual type like to have a minor which is you need a lot size of 80,000 square ft to have a medium a lot size of 120,000 ft which is 3 acres 3 acres or and that we would prohibit the major ones. you just don't have that type of land area uh for buildings of that size uh in there. So, in essence, we're not prohibiting data centers, but we're prohibiting the size and classification that just doesn't fit within the community uh in there and still permitting minor and medium and then the accessory. Uh the square

footages, where do they come from? Uh in terms of lot areas in our zoning code, we use 80,000 and 120,000 square feet a lot, especially when we classify things in the CO district, in the mixeduse district, and in the um special permits uh in there. So, that's where those numbers come in into play. In terms of building sizes, we did do a lot of research and you'll note uh if you took a a look on your agenda, bear with me one second. Um we have provided uh in there uh a lot of things that the community can access regarding from East West Gateway Council of Governments which has its own uh resources regarding data centers uh to information has collected regarding the data centers including the draft that had been considered by the by the commission. So there's a lot of things uh in there that uh residents can access uh through that process uh for that information. Um the other thing that we would include here or the the actual language which was part of an amendment uh at our last meeting was that uh 50% uh of the power would come from renewable resources and we put within five years. Uh

I don't remember us specifying a percentage. That was at the very end. I think believe it was the council leaison that recommended it and commission. Okay. I do went ahead and and concurred. And again, we have Miss Dod's put together the maps regarding the the 120,000 square feet or more

uh in there. And again, you have that information and a proposed motion if the commission uh is to consider a reconsideration. Couple other things. uh you know we did have the information out and uh uh I did speak with Miss Petri today and I told her that I would relay uh some information. uh she had recommended based on some research she had done uh to expand the the buffer from three the 300 ft that's under the current tax uh to a,000 ft and uh in there while I do understand that the way you know given the characteristics of our community in land area that would pretty much exclude exclude them so I I can't support you know going up that high we can look at 500 but 300 was a typical that was being used. Now, the distance in there, that thousand ft that that she was alluding to, a couple of things that I don't know whether that was for these mega or major type of data centers and the sounds that they produce, I can understand. uh but I don't know if if like a minor what we what we call a minor um or u or middle size would need that and plus we are requiring you know a consultant study and then uh the sound mitigation as part of the permitting process or the building performance process. So I I think it I believe it's balanced but I I told her I would bring that information to the commission's attention. Can we look at that map, you know, of the different sizes? Yeah. I'm just trying to think of what, you know, lots would potentially uh uh be close to residents.

The primary ones, of course, in the northwest portion of the city along Indian Meadows and the the what I'll call Warson Green View area. Uh in there you have this linear industrial park. Most of those lots are small don probably about an acre acre and a half the most. Yeah.

So that gets you about 60. You may have one that's 80,000 square ft uh in there, but their proximity to the residential boundaries pretty much limits it to this back area right here. However, here you right behind us in the uh Dilman industrial and north North Price industrial parks. Uh these are the areas along here you have these residents here at the north what we call the northeast quadrant. Uh in there in the bigger parcels that are up against the northeast quadrant would be excluded because of the buffer. Yeah.

Um same thing would happen here on the western end. So you kind of have this pocket here. I think this is what Don is showing. These these sites here that would have a capacity of 120,000 square feet or more. Gotcha. That would be over 300 feet from a residential property. Yeah. And I'll get a little closer. Oops. to that

and to give some uh like perspective on the size of the parcels. Those the up on the higher map um with the blue uh are these two that are right above the two pink um are are too small. So that is if if those are too small, then you can see how others would also be too small and that's why they're excluded. What about if they went to the small, you know, to the 80,000 square feet? Yeah. You'd probably pick up a couple like this one here, but it would be within the buffer. Mhm.

So again, that kind of knocks everything out on this area. Uh so what it would probably expand would be uh right around here where we already have charter and uh in in this pocket here. Now you do have residence here at Apple Seed. Uh so a 300 ft oops would probably exclude these parcels here. So again, it's probably going to be you know a little island somewhere in here in the center of the industrial park. Yes,

I personally think these amendments sound great. Um, does anybody have any questions about them or um want to discuss whether we want to increase the buffer from 300 to anything higher? Carlos, can you put the sheet above this that kind of summarized what was in the If you went to 500, would it knock out any of those in the pink? I'm just curious. I'm going to Give me one second. I'll go back to that map. I'm good. Thank you. No,

no, you're I think it would knock out the two on the right. It would likely it would affect I mean like just the ones I um I mean I don't know where the boundary you know falls exactly but yeah if you increase the the distance from residential you're going to lose something.

We could put it up on Google Maps and just kind of get a distance from Norse Price Road to you know the like I'm just going to run a straight line from about right here. Mhm. So that's about 500 ft.

Okay. So if we even went 500, he'll still keep That is correct. Those ones there. But you're saying the ones over in uh in the back up to Indian Meadows, those fall outside or inside of the three? They're they're within the 300 feet. So So that wouldn't be allowed up there.

So the the further lots here are are typically you may have a couple that well I don't know if any of them would be this one would be 80,000 square ft but it's within 300 ft so it doesn't qualify even though it has a lot area. Um back here uh you may have an an 80,000 foot one. So measure that to the Yeah. Stop it. All right. So about 500 square feet will get you pretty much re remove all this block along here. So anything that would be further inward the other side of the community center uh parking lot. So I think we easily can go set at 500, you know, and still meet that.

The question is, do we go further? 500 is pretty good distance. Um there's a couple of things when you when you do look at, you know, you're balancing, you know, having the noise mitigation and and the distance and again, if you're going to do the the let's say we were going to do a thousand foot distance and then is it really necessary to do the noise mitigation, right? So, it's it's distance is your friend with noise, you know, that that always helps.

Wouldn't the consultant put that into their equation to say, "Hey, they're a,000 ft away instead of, you know, 300 feet away." Wouldn't that be part of that noise equation? But do you I would envision the consultant would do more of a assessment of the the the quality of the building material to absorb sound and what's out there and what decibel levels those do and then what needs to be mitigated, you know, to keep inside. Yeah. You know, that that can be built

before they start looking at distance. And that's why we just said, "Hey, as long as it's 300 feet and you do your your study in there, if we go to 500, I mean, 500 looks uh isn't bad." I think at 1,000, I I think we really risk doing something that uh again that calls attention that we're just saying no to him. Yeah. Yeah. Potentially setting yourself up for a lawsuit. Um, I got to think that the chillers are going to be really noisy. And I'm not sure, but you know, they should be inside, but they may not be.

But you're you're saying, "Hey, no matter where it is, you have to have this noise consultants, which I agree because you don't want the building next to you to be, you know, even if you had an office next to it, I don't want to be exactly deal with that." Mhm. Or parks or you know what whatever is by it. They shouldn't have to deal with the noise. Yeah. Should we change that from uh 500? Let's say we go 500. Should we say 500 ft from residential and parks? I think again now you start to extend it a little bit further than I'm trying to make sure that within our limits it would still be

still keep the the sites in the industrial you know park but you know we I think uh in essence it would it would wipe all this area out which is we I'm not saying a thousand I'm saying 500. Oh yeah, the I I'm comfortable with the 500, but I'm wondering Oh, you're saying from the parks boundary now. Now I'm changing it to residential and parks. Yeah. Which I think is is is reasonable. Park it in affect is here. Yeah. Person park, which is the community center. Not sure. There's I mean there's no park over in the northeast quadrant.

Well, there there is. Well, not in the northeast. Correct. Uh but we do have this designated as PA area. So let me just check on this again. Uh just to make sure that there is an area. Yeah, I I understand.

I can possibly do an evaluation in Arc Map. Um if you give me just a few minutes. We'll see who's faster. Yeah. This mouse buttons. I don't know if I lost it, but why don't you just try making a map? No, it's the way they have the the who had this mouse last switch buttons on. Oh, okay. And then do you know that you just lost it?

I don't know. when I saw her face, she just realized that what happened with I lost my diamond scene. Oh my gosh. And tell me you got that like looped at some point recently. Yeah. Here we go. Sorry about that, guys. I'll probably on the way out of here. Just So again, you start. It's my center cut. What's the shape? A pair. Does that even matter? I'm hoping it's not um

I'm not I don't think it um single family and um public activity in this residential. You have residential and parks or just residential?

They wanted to see what the parks would do. And then tear things apart when I get home. Is this making it

what to do with it? I got to You said that. I'm like, well, what do you do? I guess P with it. What can be like? Why do you do it? Yeah, definitely check your pockets because it'll get caught on um reds. Um I used to work in jewelry.

We'll scour. Am I still in the running for for winning here? Cuz I think so. It all depends on what you're trying to show. I don't know what what is the the goal again? I'm sorry. Uh 500 ft. 500 ft. park or parks or residents resident. Okay. As long as it's 500. Yes, that that works. Yeah. Good. Okay. What is it? Um I buffered all the properties that are park and Yeah, we're good. I can project it. Um although it's not running.

What I It wasn't doing anything.

Just do this.

It did take the dogs for a while. So, um, it leaves well, it touches one of the larger ones. So, it touches like the corner of one of the larger lots. That's um that makes it into the uh over uh

120 120. Yeah. By how much? Uh, I mean like so you can see the little edge there. Um, but so that would really be the only two that would be allowed. Um, if we I guess we we can't really flip back to yours. So um, we're going to try to share the screen. Well, so this is my screen. Is it not shared? Yeah.

Didn't go anywhere. I wonder I'm looking at it and I'm Okay, there we go. Now you can see what I mean.

These two um larger ones here. Um there's a little corner that meets the 500 ft from the parks. It does rule out like all of everything in Bower. Um I'm not sure how the 8,000 I could also do a real quick um query on the zoning here real quick. And get us the those tiers for the square footage of the lots. So is it the 500 ft that's coming from the residential or the parks that's affecting that?

Because they are combined. So I would assume um that residential because those are apartments, right? The PA right there trail. Um so those are also public activity which when included with the other parks it you know really brings that closer to the industrial as well. So it's the new trail. So see I wouldn't consider the trail of the park but it yeah but it's still but it's under that zone public activity. I understand but when I think of

can we define it some some like I think of park like Stacy Park. I think Warren Park like or Z Park. I don't think of the greenway or like a walking trail as like I get that it's still a public activity place, but it's not what I would consider like a park where you're playing like a baseball game or softball game and listening to the hum of this for 30 minutes straight, right? Can we call out the parks individually? I think that gets a little complicated especially if we add or remove parks and there really isn't the definition. We struggle with a definition of a park uh not just in our zoning code but the parks department did.

Yeah. Uh when we did a redevelopment there at Dilman and uh with the veterans fountain Yeah. was was a term we yeah we start to create another definition. Well I don't want to create a definition. I just want to call the parks out by name. Yeah. Warson Park, Stacy Park. Is it But is that is adding that park is that going to change the distance if we say 500 ft or or is that just going to the lots? But did it because the walking trail, the new greenway that they're going to connect, that's what then, right? But we're trying to say, "Hey, we don't want that." Correct. is what we're getting at.

So, so I'm I'm asking is any of the other parks affect it or are we just talking about Orson Park or the community center? Where the community center is, get you something different. Um, I'll drop 400. I mean, let's play with the number. Where's the greenway going to go? It goes.

You didn't see it on that green slot right there. Right. No, the future greenway is not rail which is some indication. It's not completely like that doesn't it's not the whole you know the trail and that will not you'll still be able to see where that rail line is but most of it

yeah it looks like it's the resial It's that it's you see how the 500t buffer just ends right where it goes. Yeah. That neighborhood that's at the top near is the reason it's hitting that corner because it's in the residential you and up top. That very top portion of that road right off of to your left that that was at 300 ft and that's now at 500 because isn't that top hitting the top corner of parcel that was on that also? Um um I can get it back to that. I'm just going to do a 500 foot buffer from uh the single family

you know pops out that's residential house been increased from 500 that's why also here too. that would take that corner off that parcel. Oh, she doesn't even have our facility isn't shown there. Yeah, it is. Okay. It's also PA, right?

Now, it's currently I mean like I took off the PAS for this mask there. It's redrawing buffers with only the SR All right. Just not

Oh, there we go.

All right, chairman. Um, so what what is the the goal here now? It's to buffer it from the parks. Is is that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's something we'll we'll we'll take back and right now the council does have a recommendation on the table for their consideration uh which wouldn't include any of these uh changes but we can try to bring it back at our March uh 9th meeting and there and get the maps put together would be wise I think yeah yeah I think we don't have enough bandwidth like um but we want to approve these these changes

that was the goal but I think right how you know you know I need to look at and assess this change in buffer that was something I was not aware of right so right um I'm just wondering if we could pass it with the 300 and the residential and then say that you know kind of make a recommendation that that the uh it gets further looked at before it gets to council to see if we should have that opportunity and we can get it for the next

and that that way could because I think we got to get this on the uh the on record. You know what I mean? So, if you guys feel comfortable with that, I would just like to point out a couple things because the I live over there. It's already loud because we have the trains that come through. Yeah. And then that the AZZ that we're fighting with that is really loud all day and you think it doesn't matter when you're in a walkway or in the park, but it's it's when you're just walking your dog, it's annoying and you hear it constantly. So, I'm sorry, Felicia. What' you say? The a

it's on the other side of of deal. That's really loud and it emits a lot of dust and smoke which apparently is toxic. So, we're already dealing with a lot over there. So if we minimize the distance that we got a lot of noise already and it one more the potential for one more thing would be really frustrating to the residents over there. Yeah. Cuz I know my house already falls outside of the you know the 300 even 500 look like but I still hear a lot of it. So uh I would like that to be a serious consideration because it's already loud.

Right. Right. Um, well, what we could do is put in the 500 for parks and residents. Maybe have you guys evaluate that, talk to uh our uh staff attorney, you know, or not staff attorney, but our outside council, see if that is ex, you know, is going to be something that's acceptable. If not, then we're gonna have to look at, you know, other way. How do you like that?

Oh, that the commission I I I I think that the city's establishing performance standards in in that way. I'm fine. I I just stressing it professionally from as the city's planner of the recommendation that we're putting in those placement standards because of the urban character of the community, but the commission has you know the authority to if you want to expand it. I just want to be on the record. It's not that's not what what you know the the ideal fuition from a planning perspective. Yeah. Again, you guys are residents and you guys are representing the community as a whole and that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So, well, what do you guys think? Any discussion? Where do you want to go? Or do you want to have Carlos research it more and come back? Carlos, can you go back to the map with the blue and the pink? I'm sorry. Can you zoom in on the one with pink again? The door one here. Yes. One second. So the new the new walkway, the new greenway, doesn't it go down? It supposed to go right next to or right near the railroad line?

That is correct. That whole hund that whole rightway, this whole strip here. So if you're putting that's a public access thing. So then that would not 500 ft of that would knock all of that out. Even 300 even the 318 if you're putting a park designation on it. Not so much. It's not so much the neighborhoods. Well, this back corner neighborhood might

for them that will knock the 300 neighborhood but not but not but when you talk about parks that being a park line then it's going to knock everything out. Well, it it depends. I think at a and it current level because it's not there you know it would not when it comes in

when it comes in the city is going to have to reconsider and maybe that is the opportunity where you establish a a parks district a park zoning district to identify or distinguish between these different segments because we do have a segment on uh you know south of Olive that runs along the the water line. We zone that PA public activity like we have this building here zone public activity. Um we have a couple of uh common areas in the Chvy Chase subdivision that are zone public activity. And again those wouldn't impact but we we've been using that PA district for like you know anything publicly accessible. Yeah.

And maybe that a reconsideration is done that would distinguish those trail systems in there. Indian Metals Park is always going to be in Indians Metals Park regardless of where the trail is and Warson Park will always be Warren Park. It's somewhat unique because it's multiple lots that make up Warson Park and how it was in there. But, you know, the city can be we could be creative in terms of distinguishing this from from that or intentionally getting it as PA to take it out at that time. right now. It wouldn't impact that if the council wanted to or over time if the you know communities became more emboldened or or the state supported you know the community aspects zone at PA and then yeah then it would pretty much be gone. I wouldn't say completely. There may be something like right at that short line in there. And I think still up at Bower and Ashby where the county has the the the um the kennel, you know, would probably still qualify. that kind of is like the only lot that would qualify for an adult u establishment, adult only type of establishment because we try, you know, we couldn't zone it out, but we could like stretch it as far as we can and we, you know, not to say anything because we're on the record, but you know, it's county, it's public property. Odds are that I mean, they the odds of them selling that property to an adult establishment is pretty limited,

right? So if we did 500 with park or residential and park, it could be amended later though. Yes. Yeah. And these are always Yeah. So then I kind of like the 500 just to get it further away from neighborhoods. So the two changes 500 going from 300 to the current 300 recommendation to 500. And in that recommendation, you know, extending it not just from residentially zoned properties, but public activity properties. Yes. Yes. I understood. All right. That's my I agree with them.

I agree. So I'll So all of that being said, do we have any identified amount of land that would qualify? Yes, we do. And we'll bring those to you at the next meeting. So we're it's we're not limiting to not having the data centers. We're just it it would be very selective. Be very selective. Okay. Yeah. Is that all right? I mean and I'm more comfortable with that aspect of it. Okay. Good. All right. Any other further discussion? Do I hear a motion? Sam's gone. So remember who feels brave. I can make a motion.

All right. Go ahead. um recommended um to where is I've lost it. Okay. To amend the text amendment to the wide industrial district regarding data center centers um of chapter 400 zoning regulation as follows. Under article two definitions, establish definition for data centers and prohibit data centers containing a building area of 100,000 square foot or more. Under article 9, LI light industrial district amend section 400.830 830 permitted uses paragraph A permit permitted uses item 13 to only allow wired telecom communication carriers under article 9 LI light industrial district amend section 400.840 840 special permit uses to add data centers as defined under the 2007 NACIS 518 amend article 12 special permit uses to include under section 400.1223G additional consitions by special permit use data processing hosting and related services as defined under NACIS 2007 SI IC code 518.

Now, at this point, if it's okay to interrupt, I'm sorry. Absolutely. To add that we were going to change the the the buffer to include the PA district and that buffer distance to be 500 500 ft in instead of 300. as as noted in the okay menderandum from the department of planning and community development dated February 19th 2026 motion's been made by Laura Ragdale there are here second second and seconded by Tim Spiggle glass Carlos you please call the vote okay commissioner Ragsdale approved commissioner Spiegel approved commissioner Ford approved commissioner net approved commissioner Jurgel

approved and the motion passes this unanimously 5 to zero. So, this will then be uh taken to the city council. I believe we're looking at March 10th. Uh however, at our first meeting in in March, and I forgot the exact date uh in there, we'll come up to it in in the second. I think it's the 5th. Uh we'll bring you the map data and and more information on that. Gotcha. Okay. Uh uh comprehensive plan update.

Okay. We we talked a little bit about the comprehensive plan. I'll go through this quickly uh in there and just kind of give you some some thoughts. So, we talked about our goals uh and there the there are 10 goals that are uh identified within the plan. Um we talked about the council priorities regarding uh you know the our streetscape and the olive boulevard corridor the way it looks. Uh the goals of the council regarding environmental sustainability. You know, we already uh addressed the solar panel installations. They'd like to get some uh regulations regarding outdoor lighting and then uh continue to implement and improve storm water oversight and regulations and we will be having those coming in in a couple of months. And there and then about the diverse housing talking about you know uh adjusting how we we subdivide properties and then kind of manage the size of of uh the developments on those properties uh in there. Then we went through this uh exercise um you know starting I think in October, November till January where we asked the commission to pri prioritize what they called the um potential community actions that were identified in the comprehensive plan update and then each of these reflect the top three. Then we kind of codified that together to come back and when we talked at at our last meeting and I'm sorry I didn't print out anything but we put this all in in a uh in a spreadsheet to identify you know actual actions that the commission can start taking what goals they impact and an estimated and this is all draft right now. How long we think it it would take to to get that addressed and then who's involved you know the commission the council and staff and all that. So, we're starting to try to create a um a template for the commission that kind of puts a uh some uh

put something in record that we're work working in and putting towards uh forward the the it makes us accountable. Yeah.

That we're implementing the the plan as a whole. Uh so, we started looking at these things. These items um here kind of reflect some of the council priorities and things that the commission has talked about and then we wanted to go down with each of these goals to put those um other items out and then kind of start looking at those so they don't get lost in the process. But these are the main items I think that we we want to start addressing and and going with the commission and then again we're probably going to reshuffle this but how long we think it would take and and all that. So we talked about that at the last meeting and we got there uh commission seemed pretty comfortable going through this route. We need to refine that. So at that point you know planning staff wise we started you know talking about within these individual ones like in the the new residential district. So um senior planner Dodie is going to put together some mapping information regarding the northeast quadrant and looking at the various lot sizes that are there. We're picking that because it is a defined area. It's a pretty well uh defined and established area and it it has housing that was built back into the 1920s to you know post-war housing in the 1960s and '7s. So it's a really nice dynamic of different housing types. There's at least four different housing types in there. There's the Collingwood Brightling which is goes back to 1920. There's the Hilltop which is about 1940 and then there's Arrowhead uh which is the ' 60s7s. And then of course you got the Hilltop Manor uh which is uh late 90s early 2000s uh in there and to to take a look at the different you know different lot sizes. Right now it's all zoned the same but yet there's a variety of different lots and different characters and then what we would take a look at is start looking at the different lot sizes the dimensions and seeing if the commission wants to consider creating new zoning districts in there. We also know within these lots, you know, thing the the some of

the um hurdles that they've they've they've met trying to do improvements on their property. Uh we were kind of taking a a look at one of the um Arrowhead streets where the the garage was built the garage side's built five, you know, 5t from the property line, you know, and if and they usually have a carport or onecar garage or nothing at all. And if we want to help facilitate that, do we want to consider a zero lot line on the garage side? You know, that's or we talked about, Mr. Carlos will talk about uh like creating little templates of different options that a property owner can consider to add a garage in there that maybe tear down your carport and put a detached garage or go in through your backyard or or you know to give people you know the ability to look at different options you know uh you know um and there he's got an architect friend that could put all these things no but he but you know that you kind of give people like a pattern book of different options that they can take a look at how to improve or add to their property given, you know, the the configurations of the shapes

uh in there. So, uh great idea.

So, we'll start taking a look at that and and and and in the discussion to the commission. Then we talked about the height, bulk, and green space standards and there we've seen one of the things we kind of been struggling with haven't brought to the commission are these driveways. I mean, there are driveways here that you could land a plane uh in there and they're getting wider and we're getting more and more cars. I mean, it it's just a product of uh of the times, but we're starting to lose driveways don't count towards sight coverage and in in all our accessory structures and all that. uh we're starting to get people when they do driveways to provide some type of BMPs for storm water controls uh in there, but we don't get the full data that we get when someone's doing a new house or or so. So, it's it's difficult. What some other communities have done is, you know, if the goal is to prioritize the preservation of green space is instead of saying you can have this much square footage is just to say 50% of your front yard has to be green and then you just have to figure what size of a driveway you can put in there. And we can do different tiers that administratively we can only do up to 50%. you want more than that, you got to go to the commission and you do a site plan review uh and all that because there may be reasonable means of why somebody needs to do that or you know we can use the commission assistance to require you know some type of mitigation and BMPs or or other um options to make up for the loss of the green the loss of being for losing that green space. So it could be you know pavers uh it could be you know per permeable pavement or it could be the the the little egg crate thing you know to look at different things that we normally or you don't want us to be selecting uh in there because you would rather have a a more community input

review on that. Uh so um so we started talking about different things and we'll we'll start coming in to the commission because ultimately we would want to get to this update the land use code but we don't want to update the land use code until we get some of these in place and then we would want some outside consultant to kind of take a look at that coales it and then make sure that the that the code there's not contradictions in the code and two that the code is streamlined to implement some of the goals of the comp comprehensive plan which are you you know, are there things here that we're not considering from a sustainability perspective? We want somebody to come in from the outside and assess that. It's like, hey, you're you know, maybe your your FS are just too big if you really want to preserve green space, you know, to give us a an outside view. So, that's why we put that that would be at a later date. So, there is some method to the madness in there. Same thing with chapter 428. We already have a uh Olive Boulevard concept master plan uh that identified native landscaping that they'd like to see on Olive and we can start bringing those to the commission. We already know the streetscape concerns that have been expressed especially now people are looking at the hue that blue color is is a bad color uh in there and Creek just adopted an ordinance saying hey you can't have anything over 3,000 Kelvin and that kind of takes you down to the below the the blue line. uh our lighting standards I think are pretty good, but we we've had concerns from residents about uh imposing lighting standards, you know, new lighting standards on existing properties, and that's going to require some discussion uh in there. So if you're lighting, if you have a wallpack light on your industrial building, you know, this the goal here would be to adopt ordinances or regulations that they would have to replace that and maybe they get, you know, within in a year or threeear period, you know, or so uh in there and then for somebody again to come in and

do a full overhaul of that chapter 428 after we add all these little little bits in there. So that's how um the goal that we're we're kind of looking at it. And then public works has a uh they're working on storm water master plan along with recommendations to help uh mitigate storm water uh both during construction uh post construction um and such. We'll hopefully have those coming to the commission by May or June. So, we're moving right along and again, we'll continue to kind of reference this and keep the commission updated. Uh, Heather, that's great. Is that all right everybody? Yeah. Fantastic. This looks great. This is cool. This is a good cool.

All right.

And chairman, that really is all I have, but there is a uh on the public comment side. I wanted to bring the commission up to speed on to uh an issue we've been kind of having some discussions with developers uh in there. I promise not to make take more than 10 minutes. Uh I had invited them here uh to to to speak about about this in the their open meeting but uh they they didn't show and I understand why it it's scary uh in the process but I I want and given some of the background of some of our commission members uh in there would like to get some input. So in the building codes, this applies to residential and commercial. The building code creates specific zones and you can see these different colors in there and then there's this yellow color and we fall in in that yellow color and that is c that is what they call zone 4 and I'm just kind of letting you know. So it it's and it's kind of like that they they represent the type of climate that we experience and we kind you know pretty much you know they believe that Kansas City you know St. Louis to Louisville to Cincinnati given that we're kind of river cities that we kind of experience the same type of humidity heat winters and all that. Then the code goes on and creates what the standards would be for uh energy efficiency within these zones. And we've adopted the 2021 uh international codes. Uh and one of the things some some of our residential developers are struggling with is the insulation requirements. I'm going to go through that as best as I can. This is not my expertise uh in there. And under the 2015 codes, I'm just going to throw out numbers, so forgive me if I get these wrong. Uh, the installation requirement was like a R20. And an R20 means that you you build your house with

a by like 2 by six's. You go back to 2005 or maybe even little later in there. You used to be able to build a house with 2 by twos, you know, uh, in there and then put your insulation in the, excuse me, 2x4s, and then you put your insulation in there, what they call sheathing on the outside, and then you put your brick or your siding and all that. And that was sufficient insulation to meet the code requirements. In 2015, we increased that and you, most houses, your exterior is built now by 2x sixes as opposed to 2x4s. Then they put the sheathing, the insulation, then you can put your siding or your brick on on that and it meets what they call, I guess, you know, an R value of 20. Under the 20 21 codes, they've increased that to R30. And if you were to do that traditionally as a stick built, now you're doing the house by 2x8s with the insulation inside. Now, the code does allow for some variations and different options. So you could go back down to a 2x6 and then but now the sheathing and things that you apply are going to be completely different and more thicker. So you know all of a sudden these walls are getting wider uh in there. And I'll give you an example uh in here. So bear with me. And this is kind of hard to to see. So this this is a 2x4 and what you would traditionally do, you know, the the type of insulation you would have to apply before you got to your sighting. And I'm going to go here. This is a 2x6. The type of insulation you would apply and then your siding. And then this is a 2x8. And then you can put, you know, your your your ceasing and then your siding uh on top. Their their concern is like these walls are getting thicker, thicker and thicker. Uh and that

contributes to cost. Now, when you're doing a 1.2 to $ 1.5 million home, it's not that significant, but it does add up uh in there. the the key thing would be is just what really is the big the big inter you know the efficiency savings in in that process and that's what I wanted to kind of bring to the commission's discussion. Is it only a um an insulation issue or my understanding was this had to do with u burn rates is what I thought there were were some increased um statistics around like like slowing down the burning of the house protect the adjacent homes. Yeah, to protect the adjacent homes.

It is possible. That's a very good point. And I only know this because in 2018 I had to do a renovation and it was one of the first, you know, to to move to that R30 and I remember discussing this quite a bit. Um, and that's that was the feedback at the time I remember hearing. Tim, do you know?

I do I do not know the answer, but I definitely know people to find out. Um my my initial thoughts is it's probably to do with the product that they're using um that they're going with the cheap, you know, you see the pink insulation and stuff instead of doing right instead of doing like a board or something like that is my guess on what's going on here. Um because I don't build houses, but I find it hard to believe most people are building by 2x8s right now. And I just don't see that being done and happening. So, let me let me do some research next week or week from now. I'll come back and I'll tell you exactly

what what we think is going on here. But I agree that they shouldn't be building with the two byes. I mean, that that's cost. That's bad for the environment. That's bad for a lot of things that are going on there. Changes how they frame things.

Changes everything. It makes that house bigger, too. And your square foot's going down by two inches all the way around that house. Now, one of the things I'll note, and I've been learning a lot on this, so don't want to speak out of terms in there. So, within the code, like you could still build a a house out of 2x4s, but you're right, you're going to apply a sheathing or insul, you know, insul, you know, insulation on the outside of that wall that's going to be thicker than you would if you did a 2x6 or if you did a 2x8. When you do a 2x6, you you'll do your traditional R20. So you you can you can fill in that gap and then the sheathing you would apply would be a lot thinner than you would than would be for a 2x4 because you have that thickness and all that. So all those little pieces pop up. If you just wanted to tackle it with insulation alone then that' be the 2x8 option and and of course

but you could do spray insulation in the middle of the stud. Correct.

I mean I know that's cost but you know you could do it. I mean that's what I think is you know they're looking at that one option of hey and seeing instead of saying you know so my house for instance was built with both the inside the studs and exterior insulation too as well. So I did it way past whatever was but there's options there to not make that wall. There's no question that the way we say it is every time you go around the house with whatever material is it cost you a lot of money. So every time you wrap, whether it's plywood, whether it's insulation, whether it's, you know, whatever it is, it's brick, it's costing you money. You want to limit that times around the house with whatever material is and get that wall like this. So there's a cost too to it. You know, if you put a board in there, it's a lot cheaper and you're getting your house for, you know, you're getting more square footage and your price per square foot goes Yeah.

where you want it. So there's a lot of things. Let me do a little bit of research. I'll come back to you with some options. The other thing that was noted to me is like in in these the code also permits you well one is like again the code permits you to consider other options than just the the size of that the the the 2x in there. You do you do 2x6 but then you do this you do the 2x8 then you just do this this component. So you can add them all up independently. The code also allows you to assess a house holistically in there where you take into account the mechanical the and other components not just in the wall and see if you meet a a specific factor or or so. Um and I think um the I'm not sure if the measurement to do that is when is when you like you do the blow test and that makes that determination uh in there. Right now, county oversees that, but county is still under the 2015 uh uh in there. The other thing we we looked at is I always look at it in terms of

we're on 2021. We're on 2021, countyy's 2015. But you're the county does all their inspections or the mechanical and the mechanical is where the the blow test is falls under. But your your insulation, you guys are approving the insulation. That's

correct. We will do the insulation inspect. I did take a look at you know what, you know, what does it do for our residents because that's more important to to in there. So there are some studies that when they went from 2015 to the 2018 the energy savings was a little bit less than 2%. And that's like you know really all that for but when they went from 2018 to the 2021 uh the energy savings is 9.4%. So now you're you're over 11% in savings from going from 2015 to 2021 in there. But then also take a look at the savings. The savings is $657 an average per year. So that's about 55 bucks a month that you're saving. Now to pay that off in the cost, they're saying it takes about eight years uh based on the 2009 average. I couldn't find one that I could, you know, really really set off. Again, this is, you know, you know, the home buyer for if they are paying any that additional cost to get to that energy savings, it's going to take them eight years before they, you know,

recoup. Recoup if they stay that eight years. Exactly. Exactly. In their But somebody's going to do it whether the cost of the house, it doesn't matter if the guy leaves or comes, somebody's recouping. It's like buying a car, you know, if you get that doesn't look back. And so I say let's see what Tim can find out more info. See

I I told him I you know I would bring bring it to to the you know we would listen uh in there but you know right now again you know if the energy savings is over 10% I think one of the council priorities really is about sustainability. You know 10% is is a lot more significant than 2%. And it'd be a really hard cell, I think, to try to convince the council to to backtrack and maybe that's not don't I'm not saying that is a bad word, but to go back on on, you know, a lot of the sustainability goals of the comprehensive plan um in there. So, uh so I I'll leave and then we also looked at what are some of the other cities doing because here's where it gets in there. So, Crecore adopted the 2021 codes, but they kept the energy efficiency code at 2015. So, they they you know, there it's not an issue there.

Bronneck doesn't do the insulation inspection. So, their their response is like it's it's it's a code, but we're not looking at it. Clayton amended their table to go back down to the R20 uh in there. So, what about Maryland Heights? I'll take a look at that one. I haven't set checked on theirs. I know they're on 2021, but whether they did amendments, I I'd have to take a look. Very easy. That's good. You said R20 is it? But in this that says R23. Uh the the R20 is a 2015 base. Okay. I believe. Okay.

Yeah. You're seeing the R23. Is that just a an air? No, I think that I think they come in that and a lot of people just put the 23 cent. I mean, the guys that are building houses and the architects that are doing it aren't the guys that are doing this kind of calculations. They just want to know what to make that wall. Exactly. And be done with it. Exactly. Are you talking about this right here? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, let me what this cross-section shows is it would be compliant with the 2021 code. You can do your R20 of installation, but then this is what Tim is talking about. This is the additional like sheathing she is the special sheathing that you would apply uh in there along with the bat or excuse me uh with with with the strips and then you'd put your sighting on there. So, it's this piece here that is a unique or special material that you can then add to your R20 to meet or comply with that,

which is what you're seeing around town. You see that green sheet and you see that black strip going in? That's what this new material is and that's what people are doing with it. And you can put tile on it. It's a pretty good product that people are using for a lot of different ways to get discode and and a stickable product for different things in there, too. Know that fiberglass board? Yeah, it looks like a fiberglass board. You see it on almost every house now. Exactly. Yeah. Every commercial products using it. If it fails, everybody's in deep doodoo. But yeah. Have these zones changed at all because of increased temperatures? No, I checked in that. No, the zones pretty much just have stayed consistent as best as I can tell. Yeah, I was just curious. So, um,

good question. Actually, uh, was looking at a house or involved with a project where it was a guy from Canada and he wasn't using fiberglass insulation. He was using some special insulation that comes from Canada and it was really cool materials. It felt like a like a quilt almost. It was some sort of wool. wasn't rockwool, but it was some sort of wool material, but it was pretty darn expensive. Yeah. Wool as an insulation, as a fire resistant capability as well. Um and like Yeah, they do that in um New Zealand because they have such a big sheep population.

Yeah. Yeah. It was great. The guys loved working with it because it wasn't that fiberglass for kids. Jack said that Maryland Heights did adopt the 2021 codes but kept the IEC at the 2015. So are we the only one that adopted the 21 without any amendment? Yes. Okay. Interesting. So, all right. And it was difficult to find. It's difficult to find those amendments. And that's the same thing like we we got amendments in our code

uh in there, but they're they're you know, when you go to the these uh city websites and all that, they they are you really got to go get into the detail to find references that uh in there. So, when we adopted the 21 codes, we looked at all these other communities. Everybody seemed to have pretty clean adoptions uh in there, but it's not until you get into the the the details or they they uh transferred it to the county, you know, so they that that it's in there. So, all right. Good. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. I think that's good. Um

uh I don't see anybody in the public otherwise we'd have public comments. Is there anybody else on the line? Carlos? Uh outside of Mr. Lewis. No sir. No. Okay. So we'll move on to other business meeting minutes. I see several. I see November 20th 25, January 15, 2026, and February 5th, 2026. Somebody has been busy. Yeah. So acknowledge the receipt of these. If anybody has any uh revisions, please contact Jack and uh that that'll be great. Okay, we'll move on to reports. Carl,

just a couple of things on on the dis you'll see the uh the the calendar of uh events on our next coming meetings. Our next meeting is March 5th uh in there tentatively. Right now, we don't have anything for the commission. Uh there are two petitions that are kind of floating out there. We're just not sure if they'll be submitted uh you know be by the end of next week. Uh and there uh we've talked about the March 19th meeting. Uh I am now going to be out of town. So I'm asking, you know, we don't have anything pressing. Uh anything that comes in can be accommodated on March 5th uh or April 2nd. And if the commission's okay, if we can go ahead and cancel that.

Yeah, that's good. A spring break for us. There we

uh the city council will beo uh hold holding a retreat this weekend uh on Sunday and in that we'll you know we're we're all kind of waiting to see what the new council goals will be uh going forward and then that'll help us in terms of how we prioritize stuff for the for the comprehensive plan update and then of course find you know the our budget really is where it has the biggest impact. Uh outside of that, the brass tap they they were doing training this on my way here uh at about 6:30. So they they've had a temp they got a temporary occupancy already. Um and there we're still waiting for the Paris baguette, but they're kind of moving along. Uh so is Verizon and Tropical Smoothie. There's still a thousand square foot unleash space in there, and he's thrown out different ideas, but nothing's really uh uh tight in there. No updates on the hotel. Uh I I know from the administrative side on the city manager that she's been pushing uh the developer that they need to get this going uh in there and we're hoping that we get it in before the end of the fiscal year. Um so we we'll see. Um

they were moving dirt though, right? Yes. Mhm.

So uh in there uh then across the street, Irvington Place uh in there. It's coming around really nicely. Sidewalks are in place. Landscaping's in place. Uh, and they're they're looking probably at April. There was a hiccup. Um, a a water line on the first level busted and uh and impacted several of the units in there a component of the floor. So, um, so there if you go drive by there, you'll see a lot of big fans that that are uh the sidewalk looks great. It's coming along. Uh, in there they were putting the irrigation lines and it's really neat. They did a nice curvatured sidewalk with couple of little elements that are going to be on on that place. So, it came out really sharp. Um, and outside of that, I don't have anything else unless there's any questions or areas of interest that I missed uh on there. I don't know if Jack or Don have any any items. Don't forget about uh voting for businesses of the year, restaurant, and and such.

Yep. Please. Um, as as Carlos was saying, please vote for your favorite businesses and restaurants of the year. You can nominate up to six per go. So, okay. All right. Thanks, Carlos. Brian, no significant updates. Uh, to Carlos's point, we have a council uh retreat this Sunday where we'll mostly be focused on council goals. um taking into some of the considerations, but we're going to try to get very uh tangible about kind of what our specific goals are, making sure they're kind of focused on our areas. Um and uh yeah, those are kind of the big things going on right now.

Great. Thanks for the update. Appreciate it. All right, so anything else? If there's nothing else, we will adjourn at 8:16. Thanks everybody. Diamond.