Planning & Community Design Commission - Regular Meeting

And you are set, sir. All right. Good. Good. Okay. We'll start tonight's city of Al Levette's uh planning community design commission for February 5th, 2026. Uh to order. Um our secretary Petri. Oh, you're acting. Oh, thank you. Very um chairman Robert Juel present. Um, member Jenna, present. Member Tim Spiegelass, absent. Uh, Secretary Petri Paul, absent. Uh, member Felicia Ford, present. Member Laura Ragsdale, present. And vice chair Sam Mik,

present. Let it also be known that our city council liaison uh Brian Lewis is not in attendance, but we're honored to have uh Kate Pitchan Helman uh Pichon Pishan

Pishon Pesan Helman uh in attendance. So appreciate that. Uh as well as staff leaison Carlos Tjo, city of Alvette's planning and community development uh uh direct department director, Don Dodie, senior planner, and Jack Carzwell, planning and zoning administrator. All right, thanks everybody in attendance. We appreciate the big audience we have today. U I know you know how things go, but Carlos, do we have anybody online? Uh, no sir, not as of yet. I'll keep an eye out.

So, we'll make it brief. We go follow the agenda item one by one as you have seen before, you know, before. There'll be a staff presentation. We'll go over that with staff and then we'll bring on the petitioner uh to answer any questions and if there's any public comments, we'll take those. Uh we do hold public comments at the beginning uh you know for items not on the agenda. Um being that there's nobody in attendance, we probably won't need to do that, but we do ask any public comments be limited to uh three minutes to be respectful of everybody's time and to make sure everybody's opinion gets heard. So, all right. Carlos, I don't see any reason to give online instructions.

Move on. Carlos, do you have any announcements? No, sir. I'll save those towards the end. Okay, good. So, we'll move on to uh public comments. Anybody in the audience have a public comment? Seeing none, Carlos, nobody online still? No, sir. All right, then we'll move on to old business. Item three, number A, uh, 800, uh, Braxton Court. Jack,

good evening, commission. So, this item was before you on January 19th. It was deferred due to uh us sending the plans over to the storm water consultant to get their review comments. Um the comments that we received back, the consultant has reviewed the plans and has forwarded the analysis for the staff review. Um from the comments from the start, what was happening on the site, there was not any storm water detention. And the we from staff's opinion and from the consultants what's being put for to propose for the roof area is addressing the concerns for the storm water and collecting double what was not on the site originally. So it's actually going to enhance the site and collect more water. Um they did just have a comment about mitigating storm water generated from ground improvements. Um so they talked about installing a grate or you know an opening to the edge of the rear of the driveway. However, I just want to make it aware to the commission that though that collection of the groundwater from that driveway doesn't really follow the principles of our 422 storm water code as in it's supposed to collect the roof area and the ground area is supposed to happen and flow naturally. Um, however, that we just want to make it aware to the commission if that's a concern or um improvement that you guys would like to see. The consultant was talking about the incorporation of that grate for the um rear of the driveway. How strong do they feel about it,

Carlos? How would you It It's only picking up the turnaround component, just this part here because this is flowing towards the street. Yeah. Uh so you're picking up some in reality it won't make a major impact, but it is visually it is a you know that something was done. Yeah.

You know, and that that's up to the commission. It's somewhat like a Mr. Carwell had indicated contrary to the principles of chapter 422 where we want to use the ground and not necessarily infrastructure we do that for the house but again from a visual appearance it would look like something was put in place. Gotcha. And that that would be putting maybe, you know, two yard inlets here and then connecting to the outflow pipe or directly into the MSD system. Oh, okay. We don't want it to go into the to the detention system. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Because we don't know what that

but it would be allowed to go directly into the Correct. And that's what they're doing with their detention system. They're connecting directly uh into the MSD main. So that would be an improvement. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And that's what and and again we we would because it's kind of contrary to what I just told you and the reason is what MSD would like to see is you know when we get a big rain event it happens so fast and things get overcharged.

Yeah. What these detention systems are intended to do is that when it rains so fast, the runoff from the roof goes into this detention pit kind of holds off for a while because it's got to release it eventually. Holds off for a while and hopefully the big storm has passed and then it can release and it's not backed up or overcharged right in in that process. So that's how that's set up. Uh the direct inlets on the driveway will go directly into the system as soon as it start fraing and just adding uh to that. I don't anticipate that it'd be a big amount, but again, it it would look like a visual improvement, but I don't think it would. What portion of the driveway would flow that way?

There's a cut off line probably right around here. You can see how this 504 goes this way somewhere around it starts going back this way. So, this is flat right here. 594 to 594. So, in theory, you're going to pick up this area here, but it would be an um it would help basically kind of uh alleviate any concern that this new house increased any issues associated with

Yes. stay, you know, absolutely. But understand too, we just took over 1,500 square ft of existing land area that is no longer going to be contributing to the storm water. Right. So, what's your recommendation? I would like to kind of compare it. H

Didn't expect that question, did you? No, it it's one where again it's not, you know, for for me it's not an issue, but the cost proportion to the the value brought in. And I know that's not supposed to be our concern. I don't know what the permit cost is to tap into that MSD mate. They're going to do it already. So they can maybe tap in into their own pipe uh in there as long as MSD just doesn't pro provide another obstacle or make it more bureau bureaucratic than it needs to be. Yeah, that's my concern because I don't I don't know what MSD would do and we're doing one tap. Well,

if you tap that one, it could backflow back into the There is that concern and that's more on on on a design aspect of it. And again just to uh restate here even without this potential addition um the consultant's conclusion this is an improvement over defin yes absolutely okay because there is no detention right now everything that hits the roof of the existing house just flows flows out okay

um and sorry real quickly just also a note was um the consultant said that everything you know from the site was being collected within that detention pit and that the other, you know, the the others neighboring sites do pose, you know, complications to the concerns of the water, but it seems like it comes from the neighboring properties. Whatever's happening on 80 um 800 Braxton is being contained. And what I'll note too, I know we we have a couple of members that weren't that the and the the the concern here is let's see, let me get the best view. There is roughly See,

I'm looking for a cross-section and they got the the necessary cross-section, but it it it's not as as visual. Right at this point, it drops about four to five feet. It's just the the natural slope of the grade. And so when you look at it, it's like, "Oh my gosh, all that's coming this way." And it is. Uh but that's the way it's still going to happen that way. Uh the way it is now, correct? And the way it's been, what did he say if there was any way to to help with that without like a No. No. I mean, if we would have asked about regrading the side, putting retaining walls and essentially recontouring the grades on here.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. which then I'm kind of contrary to the other principles, but I mean it is something we can, you know, that to take a look at. Ultimately, that's still going to get captured in a retaining wall and it has to release somewhere. Now, it could go back into that same pipe. Uh just want to make sure MSD would would, you know, I'm concerned that MSD would say no to two connections. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. especially without any and it's something we can inquire and check to see how far you know I I was I was surprised that they would allow one connection but I'm sure that's because it's a detention system.

Correct. It's a new thing that they they've been allowing and as long as we get it connected to a detention they're okay you know you know as long as you go from point A to point B and then B to C being the main they're fine but not from an A to C. Yeah. So yeah. Did the neighbor have any additional comments? I know he appeared at the last meeting to talk a little bit about it. No, I did talk to Mr. Sutton. He he's the neighbor immediately behind uh and he he he was fine. He was concerned with some some of the the trees on his site and uh and that was about it. Okay.

Okay. And I just want to state to the commission, we also just have it, you know, that the petitioner will comply with the applicable storm water requirements and consultant comments as determined by staff and revise the plans accordingly, but for staff and approval prior to applying for the building permit. So, we will just have that as a condition of approval that he will address prior to his applying for the building permit. Yes. Okay. Good. Good. Thanks, Jack. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Jack. Um um so we're ready for the petitioner now if you would like to come up. You don't need to. Okay. Do you have any preference on the uh uh on that? Okay. No. Um any further discussion on that? I mean how do you guys feel about that system? I I I'm not sure. if if the consultant didn't strongly recommend it, I'm almost kind of of the same impression of Carlos that um it'd be too too many contingencies. And I I honestly just don't think uh uh they're going to allow it. So, I I'm opposed to trying to keep it simple and just stick with our own statutes or, you know, our own plan rather than trying to recreate something at this point in time that could be detrimental. But I'm open if anybody wants to further discuss it. I mean, I'm I'm good. Carlos, how do you feel about that? No, I I like our ordinances compared to the MSD requirement would have looked at the existing let's say a 1500 foot house

and then would require a detention for the differential to the of what is the new house. So let's say it was 2500. So MSD would require you to address 1,000 square ft of storm water detention. Our ordinance says no, we're going to just do the entire new roof. So in in theory, we're now offering 3,500 square feet of detention area uh to the site. So it's hard to say it's hard to envision that any more in the ground area is going to make a substantial difference. Agreed. And what you do address within the site, remember, this is just a site in the middle of a slope. Yeah.

So it's it's not what happens here, it's what's happening above. this is not the high point above below of the street, you know. Yeah.

So, you know, that it doesn't necessarily mean that there are concerns. They're at the very bottom. I mean, and that that's that's really the the the bad part. The the new house has been mounted uh in there, so they're okay. Mr. Sutton house is is one of the old traditional ranch houses, and he he is pretty low, but right now he's got those two inlets for the side to side. For the people that weren't here before, there's a house. It's to the south of this. I think it's south. I'm not sure, but it's to the bottom of this picture to the right. Um, that house was previously mounded up. So, their backyard kind of slopes into the next yard that was conducted before we had, you know, restrictions on, you know, kind of height elevations and, you know, things like that. Um, so here's a view of the neighbor behind them and then you can see the slope of the, you know, how it drops right there.

So, and again, they're not outring this slope or moving it outward. In that case, I would, you know, then there would be an opening. No, everything is still up up on this top area. Yeah. Okay. Good. Go. Okay. Any other further discussion? I look at this like it's the condition is a grandfathered in is a term we use in my world and beyond that the addition that's being proposed is coming with an improvement. So to me it's being taken care of. I I agree. So do I hear a motion? Bear with me one second. I'll get that up commission members. It's on the back of the page if anybody

Yes. So there you go. It's now on your monitors. I'll make a motion. Go ahead, Sam. Uh motion to authorize approval of the petition for site plan community design and concept storm water management review for a new single family home at 800 Braxton Florida presented in the memorandum from the Department of Community Development dated February 5th, 2026 subject to any staff conditions noted therein. Motion's been made by Sam Wallock. Do I hear a second? Second. And seconded by Laura Ragdale. Yeah. I couldn't tell. Carlos, you please call the vote. Commissioner Ford approved. Commissioner Net approved. Commissioner Ragsdale approved. Commissioner Wallock

approved. Commissioner Jurgel approved. And the motion passes unanimously. 5 to zero. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Chairman, one quick note if you don't mind. Um, you know, taking the comments from the commission. Uh, and there. So, Mr. Cardinal is now adding uh to the staff reports and this is also because we got council leaison um you know previous previous homes that have been submitted by the petitioners so you have some reference a frame of reference what they've provided in the past.

Oh great fantastic appreciate it Jack going up and beyond. All right. So, we'll then move on to item B, text amendment for the LI light industrial district regarding data centers. Okay. Chairman, we've uh Pavl, they just chairman, there's somebody online and it's Mr. Ivanchuk uh who is the architect for uh Mr. Oleg. Yeah. You want to talk to him and explain that it passed?

Pavl, they they approved 800 Braxton Court and Jackson. Yes, I saw that. Sorry. Um I joined for some reason it didn't immediately didn't show up so I had technical issues but I saw the approval. Thank you. All right, sir. Good night.

Okay, chairman. This item of course has been before the commission uh late last year. We've gotten a couple of rounds uh in there and basically what we're trying to do is be a little bit proactive uh to address data centers in our community before we receive any petitions. Uh right now a data center and you've heard a lot of them and they were all over the the news this week uh is permitted by Wright uh in our light industrial districts. So if somebody saw a building that was available uh they could make application and all they have to do is apply for their building permits and occupancies and and go in uh because that that's the process of being allowed by right. What we would like to do is to change that and to require them to obtain a special permit. What a special permit is is they have to go before the commission first uh receive a recommendation and then the council has to authorize them and approve them and the council is not beholden to to the to uh the conditions of the code you know you know because it it is the unelected body or legislative body as opposed to the commission who's administrative uh and therefore has to you know comply with what the the code conditions are. Uh so what we've been proposing and discussing is establishing a definition for data centers. Uh we use the census um bureau to establish our definitions and they have one for for what are data centers are called data processing hosting and related services. Uh in there we would ask you know that we amend the light industrial district to change it from a permitted use to a special permit use. And then we would identify specific um conditions uh kind of expectations that they they need to be aware to address with the community. Uh one is that it would only be allowed in a lot area of over 120,000 square ft. The property has to be at least 300 ft from the nearest residential uh zone

property. Uh there would be specific performance standards that they'd have to address including electric, water, sound, and noise. Uh there would be some building and site standards addressing cooling, storm water and lighting and then we would restrict their generators and uh battery uh energy storage systems. Um and there and then you know it would be up to the commission again to forward recommendation to the council and the council to consider their their how they address these items and which items were complied with too of course uh numerically uh in there and make a determination whether it it is compatible with the surroundings. Now, one more thing. Uh, Miss Dodie did put uh some maps together here. This is right now all the parcels over 120,000 square feet shown in this uh uh blue. And then this purple will show the parcels that are 120,000 ft and 300 ft from the nearest residential property. So, that kind of restricts it to auto beauty, which has been a longtime tenant of the city of Alvent has quite a bit of investment. Um, oh, not Auto Beauty, I'm sorry. Murphy Company and Murphy Company is a manufacturing facility. Um, this is a warehouse uh where Shnooks does all their floral. And then this is a uh per Pervvis and I forgot what Pervvis does. It's they used to do foils. I know that. But

it's a it's a metal manu fabricator. So, uh, we held up the commission had asked just to make sure that the, uh, city attorney is aware. I did send, uh, the draft to her. Uh, she's kind of on a call for a federal you call.

She's sequestered for a federal trial. Um, so if and two of you who know what's going on with that, um, and me because my husband's a lawyer. Uh, so, uh, she has to be on, uh, call 24/7, you know, at any point whenever they need her for this federal grand jury.

So, last thing I'll note, you know, we we we looked at uh, the East West Gateway Council of Governments has a great uh, database of information. I provided the link on the agenda in there. We also looked at a couple of communities. Uh this was like about two weeks past. So we looked at communities, you know, for the past couple of months, two weeks ago, uh in there. It's kind of hard to to express or state. And um and there was a couple of good ordinances in there. Uh we wanted to do something that was that we can kind of expedite. Right now we don't have any standing petitions but we you know this is an ongoing thing um in there and you'd be surprised on where these locations are going. Uh two um what Cravecore did is they just changed it from a permitted use by right to a special permit use and that's it. They didn't add any of those additional uh conditions in there. um Warrington did and that's just is where we got the majority along with some uh information uh from East East West Gateway. Um you had seen at least the the city of St. Louis has came came out with a uh kind of like a uh an outline of what their intentions are to do. This kind of mimics that uh in there and then this morning St. Charles came out with an outright prohibition uh completely as a moratorum is coming to a close and again my professional opinion as a city's planner is like you cannot ban a use I mean or else nobody would allow adult entertainment uh whether that's you know freedom of speech or or such you just can't ban it uh in there and those are the things that are going to get all communities in trouble if the state has to come in step in and say just like or the feds just like they did with cell towers like you're going to allow. I think these are reasonable

conditions. These address the four core principles of the state supreme court about what you can can regulate time, place, location. I forget the uh the the other two aspects and I think that put this puts us in a in a pretty good setting. Uh it allows us for consistent reviews and in and in in our case too, you know, we we we like to approach or when we developers approach us that we have a system in place and and things are pretty well outlined so they can make their decision in advance. So um would urge the commission uh to consider it. Uh we do have an opportunity uh if I get any comments from the city attorney before our next meeting, but in an effort to get this in the books by March, I'd ask if the commission would entertain taking action in this

and be glad to answer any questions.

So, one of the things that um and for the record, I'm a I'm a fan of data centers. Um, but one of the things that's been a hot topic is uh the aesthetics. Um, I think they're getting a bad rep. I think most of the time when they're built, they don't. Most people don't even know they're there. But if I reference back to some of our goals as a community that we've been working to put in place, I just would maybe challenge that we connect some of those dots to the actual ling ling language lingo of the building and site design requirements and make sure that we're staying in line with our intention for setting a tone for the all of that community. and whether or not that's a certain amount of landscaping or signage or uplighting that it aligns cuz that's the only thing I think that could go sideways where if even if it's a special special permit and they come for approval if we don't set some sort of boundaries to at least um require them to put something on the outside that it adds additional aesthetic to the community or state in line with our signage that I think will be held to pass them without and then therefore ball potentially into an industrial park look instead of enhancing the visualization of our community.

Carlos, would a petition still be subject to like community design review? Yes, any any petition for a site plan for a special permit would be submitting community design review and uh a a site improvement plan which then addresses a landscaping light. at it. So then there that's when we would match it to our goals. Okay.

Now what I would know just just to in case there there's an opportunity for more questions uh at least what I envision would that someone would try to retrofit an existing building so that the mass the existing whether you know we have some corrugated metal buildings out there we have some old masonry buildings out there. We have some CMU buildings out there that they would be going into a facility like that and trying to retrofit that and they may do alterations for the front or so, but not a mass exterior cladding improvement to the exterior. Now, it's well within the commission's perview to to push and and and and request that too as part of the, you know, the architectural design review, but it's always hard to put a nexus between, you know, somebody that's just expanding the door and then but making them put windows in the back of the the building in there. If somebody was tearing down a site to rec to to rebuild, then it's it's full compliance with the city's standards. So u and there I still think that you you know through the special permit process and the building inside standards uh you have authority to and we did this similarly uh with u property addresses 9321 Olive Boulevard where Mercy is going to operate a uh

facility inciliary pharmacy and the commission requested that they they do some uh facade improvements on the Olive Boulevard side and come back with those. So that that would be an example of yes. Yes, you can. Mhm. Uh in there. Now again, that was an approval for that specific property at that time. Uh any other further discussion? Any other questions?

I guess I'd just say um this issue has come up with a group of elected officials uh that's working on sustainab sustainability issues throughout St. Louis. It's called Cool Cities. It's a new group, but um elected officials from St. Louis city and St. Louis County have been getting together regularly to discuss different issues and with data centers, you know, the biggest issue that comes up from a sustainability lens is the energy use and the water use. Um, and one of the proposed solutions, um, now I don't know that anyone has actually put this in place, but just kind of putting this out there is to have potential requirements, uh, specifically related to energy that um, buildings would offset a certain percentage of their energy use with solar or some type of renewable energy so that it's not having such a strong demand on the grid. Um my sense with the special permit is that that's that's not something we necessarily need to put in right now. Um I think you know the idea of moving moving this forward so that we have the special permit in place um is a very good and important first step and if doing something like that is is of interest to council and or and the commission um that can be a discussion for a later time. Carlos, don't we have some language in there that

we have and it was uh a request for they for the petitioner to provide us some performance standards that can lead to those to those questions or request to uh to address anything from those reports. So that that is there but of course it's it's not required. Uh if we were to take a look at that and I've seen some of those you know we we could put a standard that you know a certain percentage we provided by you know alternative energy sources. Did they state any percentages or anything? That's what I'd be kind of curious if it would be 2550. You know, we had I think we have to be careful in terms of right

either or we can kind of we're asking here as one of the building and side standards is that they address the cooling and we're pretty vague in ter in terms of there but we're telling them in advance that there's an expectation that we want to understand how they're cooling their systems. So we can add something similar like a cooling energy use. You know that what the goal here is that we're telling them in advance what our expectations are and that's Again, what I've seen is like don't tell them what to do, but tell them what you're going to be looking at, or else you're going to paint yourself to a point. Yeah. So,

can we at least say something like that in a minute that and and add some language regarding addressing either energy usage or like grid offsets or something? Yeah. Or contributions. Yeah. from alternative energy should be incorporated but don't necessarily specify the amounts correct but just say it needs to be incorporated I think it's a good point I think it's it's an easy I do too and I think it's good

do we foresee this being something that comes to our attention often I mean I'm only surprised because we don't really have a lot of water we're not sitting next to a river or we just kind of preemptively preparing Uh it's pretty primarily preemptive in there two because we are the highest point in St. Louis County. Both the city of St. Louis and the Missouri American Water have their central water units right here. So there there is a lot of water you know it's not just on the river. Got it. Okay.

Um in there. So just to be aware of that. But the the other aspects is there was one building I was really concerned about that looks Mercy has taken that uh in there and that was a like 100,000 square feet. I don't have many 100,000 square feet buildings in all of it in there. We we have we're the industrial park gives us a great balance and I hope it would maintain to be an industrial park for the foreseeable future. Um and there but like Redwood there's an inquiry in Brent to be put in there's there's like six of them in downtown St. notice it and there of course there was a discussion of the armory and then you see those big massive ones that that are new builds

but it it's been interesting to find like how they could retrofit uh in there um Miss knows our building stock really well and I mean what her expertise is like what businesses are looking for we've been fortunate where like our scene I certainly vote in there and that you know that's been a blessing for the most part.

Uh, but we still have one building out there that I'm concerned about after Mercy got theirs uh in there because it's more of a warehouse. So, it's not the highest and best use uh in there, but the buffer will take care of that in there because it's right adjacent to some residential properties. Outside of that, no. uh our industrial parks are well occupied and you know somebody would have to pay a big amount for a small property and either retrofit or build new that's additional cost. I just don't see us being on top of the list but you have okay do we need to approve it? I would recommend the commission can this just to get the process we can always come back and make other further amendments down the road.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If there's no other further discussion, do I hear a motion? Go ahead, Sam.

Motion to recommend to the city council a text amendment to amend chapter 400 zoning regulations as follows. Under article 2 definitions, establish a definition for data centers. Under article 9, LID like industrial district, amend section 400.830 permitted uses. Paragraph A permitted uses item 13 to only allow wired telecommunication carriers under article 9 LI light industrial district amend section 400.840 840 special permitted uses to add data centers as defined under the 2007 NACIS 518 amend article 12 special permit uses to include under section 4001223 subsection G additional conditions by special permit use data processing hosting and related services as defined under NACIS 2007 SIC Code 518 as presented in the Department of Planning Community Development staff memo dated February 5th, 2026. Do we need to add the item that we just talked about?

Yes.

Okay. amend motion to require um use of some form of um renewable energy as a energy source for such a project. Motion's been made by Sam Wallock. Do I hear a second? Second. And seconded by Jenna N. Carlos, you please call the vote. Commissioner Ford, approve. Commissioner Nat approved. Commissioner Ragdell, approved. Commissioner Wallock, approved. Commissioner Dragel, approved. The motion passes unanimously, 5 to zero. This will go to the city council uh for a public hearing and first reading on March 10th.

Good. Good. All right. And if there are any comments received from the uh city attorney, we'll bring those to our February 19th meeting. Perfect. But this allows me to uh to initiate the posting and and notice. No, I think that's great. Thank you. Okay, we'll move on to new business, but I item A has been deferred. Correct. That is correct. Okay, so we're moving on to item five, the 2024 comprehensive plan update. Okay,

uh just a quick overview and then kind of show you where we're at and there there's a couple of um members. Everybody's participated in the surveys surveys uh in there and we've accumulated those and then we're now moving into our next steps and I'll go over that in just a second. But just a quick overview, we have a vision statement. Uh we have kind of a listed uh values and uh uh objectives type of statement that are part of the plan. We're creating community diversity, sustainability, balanced economy, affordability, and connected built environment and sense of place. Um, we have our community goals, highquality housing, trans equitable transportation network, sustainable infrastructure, uh, quality city services and facilities, to lead economic development, to be welcoming, to be safe, to be healthy, uh, to strengthen our environmental sustainability, and to promote strategic redevelopment and growth. the council uh at a work session had identified uh their priorities uh regarding the implementation of the comprehensive plan. We've gone over those uh under go J which is uh redevelopment and growth was about chapter 428 and uh expanding uh uh those requirements uh and then also the streetscape they kind of go hand in hand under goal I strengthen environmental sustainability uh to commission urge the commission to remove barriers to solar panel installations which last month the commission adopted new regulations for residential solar panels uh in which they no longer need to come to the commission for review if they meet certain criteria and those will be going to the commission also to the council in March. Uh to establish outdoor lighting regulations and to continue to improve the storm water oversight regulations, excuse me. Then go a diverse housing was to look at

the possibility of subdividing larger lots into smaller lots to uh try to address some of the the housing cost and also uh new regulations to manage the size and impact of new homes and major developments. Then we asked the council to put theirs together. Uh Miss Dody sent out uh surveys once one survey every week. So you could go through through the goal, its objectives, and then what they called the potential community actions and then to rank those community actions in terms of how each individual uh would like to see them address first. And then so this slide which we provided at our last meeting kind of identifies the first three uh from a from the collective group uh in there and those that are shown in red were uh kind of overlap with what the council priorities uh or recommended priorities were uh in there and how they fell within the the commission as a whole. Okay. So that's where we're at today. So tonight is bringing forward to you and you have a a paper copy in front of you. But now we've taken the commission's survey results along with those the council and we've started to put them in a worksheet and identify you'll see in this worksheet at the very top are the the the primary goals housing diversity, transportation equity, efficient infrastructure, economic development, environmental sustainability and strategic redevelopment. uh vertically on the left side, you'll see those potential community actions. Uh I've also kind of broke them down into, you know, uh categories uh in there. And then the ones that are highlighted in yellow reflect those that were also priorities recommended by the council. And then you can see how each of those potential community actions uh addresses

the individual objectives or goals. uh a suggested timeline on how long it would take for us to codify or come forward with uh amendments for the commission to consider to implement the potential community actions. Uh who's involved, whether it's its plan commission, whether council needs to be involved and at what point and when it's kind of a funding requirement, something that we are going to have to go for some outside assistance. uh and how it would be initiated whether it's a staff or it's a consultant or it's another commissioner group that would provide that input uh in there kind of hard to read but I I I you know we do have it online for you uh you have a paper copy in here that goes for me is and and my staff is to get an idea is are we going in the in a good direction? Is this something so we can help the commission uh prioritize implementation in the comprehensive plan and provide timelines in this and how it's done uh in there?

Well, I open for any comments and all that. I know this first time you guys have gotten to see this uh in there, but the goal here would be is this the framework or the expectation and then we'll continue to go through this at our next meeting and and refine. I think this is great. Good. And if if I reme I don't remember with the previous strategic plan us actually setting goals and stuff like this. So, I I think this is fantastic and I think we'll figure out what's going to be easy, what's going to be difficult, you know, um you know, some of those timelines may change, you know,

and other things will come in uh that again, we tried to add them in here like we were working on short-term rentals, not a high priority in the comprehensive plan, but it is something that we we've been trying to address and get a handle of, and I think we we still need to do so. and then other things that have popped up uh in there. The other thing for council liaison which would have been for Mr. Lewis without uh council person pashan helman is that there there are some that will require funding or would be recommended by our staff that we would like outside consultant help in there uh given the you know we have an election in April uh and a new council coming in and a new budget being set. So, a lot of these like some of these it's like it would make sense like if if there was a funding request for some outside help to come in after the next year. Uh and there only because we still don't know the council, you know, at this work session coming in. Uh the council's going to be talking about their priorities and goals. Uh and then that helps us uh in every department on how to put prepare our budgets in there. There are some things that I'll be asking for on behalf of the commission and and planning uh for funding, but I think some of these larger items, you know, I'd be more confident if if they get in line with the council's recommend goal in there, and we'll find out what those are in there before making those type of requests uh in there. But I think we haven't done a a full uh overhaul of our land use code. So that means zoning, subdivision, street, you know, lighting, uh, um, storm water, you know, somebody just to come in and just make sure it's in compliant with the comprehensive plan and any other further, uh, priorities that the council wants to see or the commission. Uh, but that I think, you know, that could be $120,000 type of request plus uh, in there. So it'll be seeing how we do this this coming fiscal

year and then being prepared for the next one. Um and then again we'll go down I think at the very end you'll see goal a housing and diversity those were the remainder of the uh potential community actions. We'll do those for A B C E I and J also and we'll start start adding on that list uh in there and then re again relook at those dates. This is a 20-year plan. It's not supposed the intent is not to implement it you know overnight. uh it could be pretty aggressive and you know but that's what we would look for some input from the commission as a whole uh not to over saturate staff uh in there but to make sure that it's it's it's poss you know it's possible to put together and are we focusing the time at the you know in the right areas. So

yeah, I think it's great. Then I'll let Jack and Don if there's anything you guys want to provide. They kind of went over it today, too. So

just I have a quick question. Okay. And it's and I don't know the answer to this, but you know, we're going to start looking at green construction. We're going to look at the new residential districts. Um we're also talking about doing the housing inventory and trying to keep things affordable. some of the green housing might be more expensive and how that affects all of our goals, you know, because I feel like with some of the I know it it reduces energy uh and stuff, but you do have an added upfront cost

that's going to make the housing more expensive. So, how do we balance that? I don't have an answer, but I know it's going to come up. I think yeah I think it's worth the discussion. uh we're not the only community facing that same question and I know from uh from planning organizations and and all that that they're they're they're discussing that but at some point I mean you um you can do just incremental patchwork or really make a a difference and it be becomes a question like how long are we going to wait before we you we we implement it and right

what to what extent is you know the benefit and the last, you know, in there and, you know, looking at something from, you know, like a return 5 10 20 years and given what what's going on. And we're kind of having a discussion internally regarding like uh right now under the the current building envelopes, uh you know, the old the old uh ranch houses were built by there was 2x4s, you know, and you had insulation in in there. uh in 2009 or after 2009 when they started implementing uh a lot of the energy conservation into the building code, it became that you started using 2 by sixes on your exterior walls and it's you know wider you know wood members and

more insulation.

Correct. And that that does add cost and you're filling in in there but it does increase the energy efficiency under the 2021 code. Now the new wall is a 2x8 And we're getting some push back, not push back, some inquiries about, you know, what what what is the cost benefit of of that by now going by 2 by8. There's a couple of things that eventually happened. The code is somewhat new, even though it's a 2021. Um, but if you recall, I think it was two 2012 when the the the international code council uh changed their codes to, you know, reflect energy conservation. I mean, it was expensive to buy an LED light bulb. Now, it's more expensive to buy an incandescent light bulb than it is an LED light bulb. So, some of that is that transition and and in there. So, where you have to start it and whether all of that will be the one that solves that, I you know, I I don't know. You know, I it's a everybody's kind of struggling with that. It's a valid question, but then it's a valid thing that we got to start somewhere.

Right. Right. It it was advised at the conference that we attended recently of the one STL um and it it was really interesting. They saw it as a way to uh stay in place for people to uh make their existing structures more affordable for them going forward. And I do think, you know, there's an expectation of that savings catching up or the expense to continue climbing that in that it makes the uh repairs uh you know, it incentivizes the repairs essentially

in the cost benefit, but as as Carlos was saying. So,

okay. Okay. I think I'd just like to say that if the commission is interested in learning more about green buildings, we have an excellent Missouri Gateway Green Building Council. Um, and I think leaning on the expertise and the resources of uh people who do this every day and who are often, you know, uh, faced with the question of, oh, but it's going to raise costs, upfront costs. Um, I think just having someone from there, Emily Andrews is their director. She's wonderful and gives presentations to groups of all different kinds all the time. Um, I think would be a real benefit for the commission.

I actually think they're having hosting an event next Tuesday if anyone's interested. It's a free attend at Tarlton. Yeah. State of the council I think is their like annual review. Fantastic. So, Carlos, what do you see as like our next steps here? Are we going to whittle this down a little bit, pick a couple, and then we'll set aside time in each meeting to try and address them?

First, I I would like to go back and then, you know, and actually before down expand this to make sure we have all the items on the comprehens the the the potential community actions listed. It gives us a a better way to make sure we understand each of them. There's a lot of duplicates that kind of run back and forth that might widow down, you know, components of that list and then come back to the commission. We've heard your priorities, we've heard the council's priorities and recommend those that we can can do, you know, start looking at this from the those that we want to do at the six months, 12 months and see if the commission's concur concurs with that or they'd like to see other things moved up. So, I think you're going to see at their next meeting an expanded list and then we'll start coming back down to uh to the focusing and bringing that to to something a little bit more manageable.

Okay. Carlos, can I ask a question? um as part of the online packet um and this is because I haven't been in the other meetings but there's these pages here that go through goals and have are the rankings on the side like are these ranked in order from how the commission um prioritized. So the commission was assigned a one, two and three point system one, two and three to each one of those. one being uh not a high priority, three being a high priority, and then two just being in the middle. And then we we added all those numbers to each one of those and then c, you know, ranked them in terms of what received the most votes.

Okay, great. Thank you. That's very helpful. You guys have been doing a lot of work. Thank you for doing all this work. Carlos has been making us. That's good. Thank you, Carlos. It's been the late nights and we're like, do we really have to do this, Carlos? I re really appreciate the amount of time and effort you guys have been putting into this. All right. Well, good. Um, let's I guess we'll move on to other business unless there's any further discussion. So, we'll move on to meeting minutes. And I see one for December 4th, 2025. Nicely done. So, acknowledged. and we will move on to reports. Okay,

Carlos, real quickly, you have a list of uh of events that are that are scheduled for the the community in the this month. The one I'd like to highlight here is that the St. Louis County Department of Health uh is going to have a town town hall meeting here regarding airsource regulations and compliance determinations. That's open to the public. It'll be held here at the uh at our council chambers and then um what's 6 o'clock p.m. Oh, I thought it was going to be in here.

So, uh the they will entertain questions submitted in advance uh in there. At first, I thought this was cuz they they held one last year that was more for inspectors. We had attended uh regarding air quality for demolitions and and uh and things of that nature. I think this is just an open town hall meeting uh in there to talk about the air source regulations. you know, a little bit.

Yeah, I think my sense is that it is a little bit more tailored towards an issue that has been coming up for folks in the Indian Meadows subdivision as well as in Grand View subdivision. Um, where there are concerns related to AZZ galvanizing facility. Um, so it's it's my understanding is that it's more tailored towards the concerns happening there.

What are the concerns? Um neighbors are concerned with um potential air pollution um noise concerns. Um it's there have been some ongoing complaints uh through St. Louis County because the facility is is in unincorporated St. Louis County there. you know it's our residence residence but the property is not invet so there's just on the north side of the uh dep right yeah right okay good

our next meeting is February 19th and then I just want to bring everybody in the loop just so we're aware and any heads up on these would be beneficial for March we have a meeting on the 5th and the 19th note The Leoo School District spring break is the 13th to the 20th. So if if there are members that are going to have a conflict, let me know. That way we can inform our uh applicants in advance and then also talk if we need to reschedule on a different date. Unless I will be out on the 19th. So you can probably mark me out on the 5th for the uh which which one?

March March 5th. Due date's the 6th, but not necessarily this having a spring break issue. Yours is a completely different. We're not going anywhere. That's what I mean. Maybe I have to check the spring break because it depends on where I'm at, you know, but I'll check. All right. Uh then for April, our meetings are the 2nd and the 16th. Passover starts on the 1st. And I wasn't sure if that affects that. I don't believe I know if I don't have any Catholics uh for Motty Thursday. We used to have a member that had to be off that day. So um

it does that's yeah that's traded on but it starts at so uh and then in May I was more concerned about the 21st uh if anybody had conflicts with graduation or or so. Uh and then we should be clear for September because uh both observances fall on on different dates and also for December uh we should be okay. I should mention May 21st I believe is the Thursday before Memorial Day weekend. Is that right? So I'm here but I'm just making everyone aware there's long weekends there.

Okay. Great. Then on the updates just a couple of things. Um, we received one of our applicants and actually it was a petitioner that was here after I posted the agenda which includes his application and generally I just scan that and add it to the packets uh in there. The following day he received an invoice from the city of Alvette with its logo uh for an amount for a couple of thousand uh that had to be electronically deposited with to a specific account number with my signature. And two weeks prior uh commissioner uh Jurgel had told me that he had received the same thing through his firm from another community in that and then um this month APA did a spotlight about these fraud invoices and I sent that uh out there. So, what we've done at least now is that we we went back to the application uh for this customer uh along with the other one that was on tonight's agenda and redacted the phone number and the email.

Good. Yeah, the phone. Yeah, good. Good idea. Email that. Okay. Yeah. And so and then

all those applications are on our website now. I mean and we go back to whenever we got but maybe 2008. So we are you know kind of working on going back and redacting or removing the application completely uh from from online and it it's one of those things we do it because we get requests or calls and it's easier to direct people for public information to the website uh out of transparency you know like we have nothing to hide. we're putting all in there and then you have these these events or things that happen. In addition to that, uh we're putting in in our emails noting that in no case does the city ever collect payment uh unless it directly calls the the customer or the customer comes in and makes the payment. We don't do it any other way. We don't do

we don't have online payment systems, right? So, we're noting that to to them. So, good good. It was pretty surprising in there. Uh, Olive Crossing, uh, the signage at the Paris Baguette is is up facing the parking lot. Uh, but the brass tap has it on all three sides. And speaking of the brass tap, their scheduled grand opening will be March 26th. So, wow. Uh, lot six, which is the hotel, uh, they were moving dirt earlier this week. Uh we're we'll be checking up on the progress, but uh as of yet, we're still waiting for the application for building permits and all that to get going.

Irvington Place Apartments uh they're looking to start occupancies in the beginning of April. No, is it April? Okay. Wow. So, uh facility looks great. I think it fits well. I mean, it it is a larger building, but I think because of the breaks of the building. It it you know, it's not a single family home, but it doesn't look it doesn't like overshadow it. It's it's there. You can tell, but it's I think they did a a nice job breaking the mass uh in there. They got a great website. A lot of good information about all of that in there. Oh, the they're uh they're looking at April to start occupancies.

Late March or early The city has received the final okay and I guess I believe it will go to council at their next meeting to start improvements at the intersections of North Price and Olive and Dilman Industrial and Olive. And what we will be doing is adding an additional right turn lane which will help uh backups that that you know people coming out of there. We we used to have over 3,500 people that worked in the industrial park. Uh that should improve a lot of the the traffic movement for people going west uh in there because if somebody was going towards 170, you were just completely backed up from that point on. Um in there that is consistent with our Olive Boulevard master plan. It is consistent with the Northwest Quadrants traffic study. In addition to that, some things to note, and I was going to try to get the numbers, but these are important things to know, and I'm sorry to take up the time, but I believe, you know, all of contributions to those two interchange improvements is maybe 25% of the total cost because we are doing this with ARPA money and then uh surface transportation funds. In addition to our 25% or so, you know, through this commission and through the approval of the council, um, Irvington Place Apartments contributed $170,000 to those those total costs. So, again, we're we're, you know, the plans, we're utilizing our plans, we're leveraging our resources, and we're trying to, you know, make sure that our taxpayers get uh the best return for their investments here. Uh, Mercy had their special permit at the council meeting uh last week. all all went well. Uh they'll have their final reading uh next week and we'll see if the council is ready to take action on that. Uh planning staff including Jack, Don, myself, and then our council leazison uh attended the 2026 climate action summit. It was put together by one STTO. It was

a very impressive summit about sustainability, green energy. They talked about data centers, uh trees, uh storm water, uh all sorts of things. I think that everybody came came back with a lot of input, a lot of insight uh in there and a lot of

so it was a great uh session that was put together uh by the group and I think that was their second one uh since uh in there. Um that being said, I am now part of the Municipal and County Resilience Alliance, which is MAC A, uh which is a professional, uh planning group that will provide, you know, opinions regarding resilience and sustainability actions uh in there. So along with the city of St. Louis and then I'll find out what other peers will be on there. we received it uh updated FEMA maps uh our flood plane maps uh and this has been since 2018 when we've had uh a couple of open houses here at our community center. Um FEMA is updating our flood maps. Uh they significantly impact several parts of the city uh that were not in the flood plane. And the reason they were not in the flood plane is that when those maps were put together, they stopped at I70 and then just said, you know, it's possible this way. Well, now they're they've mapped out this way and and and in that that being said, uh properties that were never illustrated in there are now in there. uh and that they've been notified. They've been given opportunities to to provide comment uh both here through uh hostings that we had and also directly with the state emergency management agency uh in there. But a lot of our new council probably whether they were involved or were aware uh that'll be that'll be something coming you ultimately those maps have to come here to the commission and then get approved by council.

Have you seen them yet? Pardon? Yes. and they've been up up for a good time and I can bring it up in a second if you'd like to see them. Yeah.

Uh the other is the city council will be holding a retreat. I think that's going to be in a couple of weeks uh in there. That retreat, you know, uh will give uh will they'll discuss their priorities which will then impact how we respond back with our budgets and also how commissions and and boards uh you know prioritize what they implement. Uh and of course that affects what we're working on on on our fiscal year budget for year 2027. Um and then I think there's been discussion there. There are some outside we used to do this in the past but it was rare that we had any interest where we would fund commission members to go to seminars or trainings uh in there. And I think that there's been some discussion about that and that there may be some opportunities. But again um it it I know it's difficult. you already do two meetings a month and then these are kind of all set. But if anybody does have interest, let me know so I can make sure uh to advocate on on that that behalf. There's some good things out there, but it does take time uh in there. But it's a good investment uh in there. Uh I have been appointed or elected as a member of the American Planning Association Metro Section Board and also now the chairman for its diversity and inclusion committee. So uh wanted to bring that to your attention.

Yeah. And lastly, the business and restaurant of the year nominations is up and I believe the website is now up and operating. Miss Dod, is there anything you want to add? Uh, that is correct. Please nominate your uh favorite restaurants and businesses. Uh, you can use the form as many times as you want and you can um put in up to six businesses total. So, three businesses and three restaurants.

So, at where do we find that? It is on our website. Um on the uh doing business page, there's actually a QR code out front too. Um but uh if you go on to our doing business and Alvette uh part of our web page, then um select the uh business awards uh which is on the tab on the left hand side at the very bottom. So, uh, and that will take you right to it, the explanation and the survey. So, you might recognize my general survey style. It's hard to believe that it's already been a year since we did it before.

It's it's three years running now on the uh, business awards and we, you know, we really uh, picked up a lot of steam la after the first year. It was it was pretty impressive. Yeah. Correct. All right, Carlos, you're pulling up the map. Yes. So, that's all the updates I have and I'll let the uh council leazison. Yes. All right, Kate.

Yeah. So, a few updates from council. Um, our council re retreat was rescheduled. It was uh supposed to happen when we got all that snow. Um, and it's now rescheduled. I think it's for the February 22nd. Um it's a Sunday. Uh we also um had our audit go through in previous council meeting back in January. So I'm not sure if Brian gave you an update on that, but the audit went through. It's clean. Good. Correct. Um it's always important to let people know that that the audit comes when it comes back clean, which it

does for us. Correct. Mr. Man does an incredible job um keeping us on the straight and narrow. Um, if you haven't heard yet, we had a new uh wonderful reciprocal agreement that is is going to I don't know that it's in effect yet, but it was approved by council between Creve Core and Alvette so that Crecore residents will take be able to use Five Oaks at the Alvette resident rate and residents will be able to use the Crecore ice rink and golf course at the Creep current resident rate. So, that's a wonderful reciprocal agreement that was um

the deal was brokered through our parks and recreation department and really great um collaborative effort there. Yeah. Um the council at our most recent work session um approved the process of moving forward with the EDC to put out a business survey, a survey of our businesses to start getting some feedback. So that will be going back to EDC to just get approval and we'll hopefully be going out to businesses soon. Um, and I'm I'm hoping that there'll be some good information from those surveys, both for the Economic Development Commission, but also for planning as well. I think there's a lot of, you know, a lot of overlap in what both commissions do. And then um also at our work session this past um Tuesday, we discussed two Missouri legislative house bills um that are important for us to be aware of. One is House Bill 2384. I don't expect that you will remember these numbers. Um but it is a House bill that has passed through the committee and is on its way to the House um that would restrict municipalities from enacting an energy code beyond 2009. Um Olivette has the 2021 just recently adopted the 2021 building code. So, if this were to pass the legislature, um we would have to go back in time um and adjust back to 2009. Um so, uh this is not supported. It is opposed by the Municipal League of Missouri and the St. Louis um Municipal League as well. Um we'll see where that goes. Lots of times things come up and they don't go

anywhere, but it's something we're keeping an eye on. The other is House Bill 2761, which would um eliminate the solid waste management districts and shift that focus to uh the DNR. What that means for us on a practical level is that we use grants from the St. Louis Jefferson County solid waste management districts to fund our e-waste um recycling effort that takes place annually. Um that would be gone. Those grant opportunities would no longer exist. Um they they might the DNR might recreate them in some way. It's hard to know, but the entity that creates those grants would no longer exist. And the parks department also recently applied and received grant funding from the same solid waste management districts to um put in some new recycling containers. So this is another one that um the Missouri Municipal League has not weighed in on yet, but the St. Louis Area Municipal League um has come out in opposition. So, and that one has not yet passed committee. So, we'll see. But I think it's important, you know, to just kind of be aware what's happening at a broader level and how that might impact us locally and to also remind everyone that you are all constituents of your state legislative representatives and can contact them uh if you are so inclined.

Great update. Thank you very much. It's a lot of those things we don't really I I may not pick up on, you know, and then you're so h having that update's great. So, thank you. All right, that being said, any other uh updates, comments, look over you, you have the FEMA maps the Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Uh right in front of you on the DAS up on on the screen. And again, the old maps didn't go past 170. They just said there's a potential for flooding in here. Now, they're identifying the specific flooding areas. The blue represents floodway where you are restricted to build and the orange areas represent the 500year flood plane where you can build in there but you kind of uh you be careful with your grading and all that. I'm going to go in here a little bit closer in there and you can see there are several structures in the blue. This represents the channel that goes right by Nick Nikakari. Um and there this represents the area that is a channel overfilled which could happen in in a 1% uh chance every hundred years uh to be flood plane. So all these houses now are in the flood plane. They'll be required to get flood insurance um uh in there and then of course they have limitations to uh to what can be done to the structure. Now, this goes back in to some extent the commission has seen this, but it's been a long while. Back in 2018, uh we we we brought it to to the attention uh to the residents uh to the council, to the commission um in here and, you know, wanted to get, you know, our response together uh to challenge the the mapping and all that and which we did uh in there. And so did the residents. they had opportunities to to forward comments online and to mail in comments to the organization putting this together on behalf of the state. Uh and which they did and what happened uh if you require I forgot which hurricane it was. It wasn't Katrina but where Brentwood got really flooded uh in there from the after effects. And right

along here is the new uh multi-athway bike trail that goes from to Delmare there. There's a pretty big covert underneath 170, but that pathway is under it used to be an old train bed and that path that the the covert underneath is really small. And when we had that big rain, at least it's in my belief, we had a tree limb that got stuck here along with a couch and some whatever who else knows what. And this area did flood. And it was the first time, you know, at least since I had been here since 2002, that we had ever experienced any flooding in this area. And we thought it was because of the backlog uh that that happened there. But no, they they calculated and the you know this covert is just too small and the cost you know it would be very expensive to expand that uh in there but that that was the re the rationale of why they are showing that in a big rain event there's just too much water volume and it's going to back up into these areas. Yeah, there there are some properties that are going to benefit that are going to get a reduction. And then as you go here to Dealman and here's the bike trail. Same situation. There's a covert crossing here. And again, just the volume of water just gets is too much that it backs up and it has the potential to impact this house here uh in there and therefore they're also part of the 100 day.

Didn't they redo that cover? Uh, no. We were and and this is on a different council. They decided that it the not to take it was going to be too expensive and uh that we would just resurface the top. There's a new house being built right on that edge, isn't there? Just going to say not too long ago, we approved some new houses right in this area cuz they they back where Oh, no. bike trail that that

on bottom woods go back again. Sorry guys. Okay, so yes, we approved I think we've gotten up to maybe two or three, but we knew about the map. So again, these have been out there since two 2018. So we required them to to increase their elevation. We usually try to keep elevations low, but in this case, we made sure that their basement elevation was one foot above the the designated flood elevation so they could do a finish. Now, what they would do, again, FEMA wasn't going to go back out there and redo this whole map because the new house is there. What that house owner will do is submit a kind of a letter to SEMA or FEMA directly and get a letter map amendment and then their house will be out of the flood plane, but the map's still going to look like this, but they'll have a sheet of paper that says that they're officially out given their elevations. So when those two houses were built, we made sure that they were aware because I couldn't enforce this. Uh but I knew the information and could make sure that they built the house high enough to be out.

Yeah. The I remember us talking about that on the bottom woods. Um uh new new builds there. Yeah. Because the back end and then Jack was right here. This is where that two lot split occurred on the white rose. Yeah. And then we also, you know, made sure that he was built up, the house was built up. Okay. And again, that's not to build up the the grade and mound the house, but to make sure that the elevations were brought up so you have a little bit more foundation exposure, but we usually require it to get covered in there. So, you'll have a porch that may be like four feet above the grade for the kid. Can you scroll down just a little bit? Um,

what area? Long Acres Drive. Is that true? Is that representative of current status? How far that goes? Yeah, it doesn't show the houses, but this is where the that new subdivision is at. Okay. You may be able to see the newer houses if you turn on the aerial in the layers. Uh it's in the option, but it's kind of, you know,

that's fine. I was curious if it reached that the brain or not. And then we have in the upper areas a lot of reduction because this this is now more channelized in there. We were extremely surprised about this one because this is a channel a concrete channel uh in there. But I understand what they're saying, but you that was that one occurrence and I thought it was more because of you know the items that got clogged up in there that public works went out there and pulled. Does this impact the hotel side at all? No. Okay. No, there's uh further down. It's it's a the way these lots are, it it starts like somewhere around here.

Okay. I know what you're saying. Good point. Okay. Any other further discussion? Being none, thanks everybody. We'll adjourn at 8:25. Thank you, Trevor. 8:30. Thank you. I'll make that sound. That's weird.