Zoning Commission - Special Meeting

Now we have the recorder. All right. Good evening. This is a special meeting of the online zoning commission on Wednesday, October 1st, 2025. We have at the table or in the room this evening. We have Jay Marsh, our secretary, permanent member Mary Joe, alternate Michael Michael uh Michael. Yes, Michael Phobiano. I was going to say Barnes. Michael Fogliano. um Mary Gardner Copela alternate uh Paul Orzel myself as chairman also we have Amy Huat our ascribe and we our document excuse me and um Eric Nath our zoning enforcement officer. All right, the first and only order of business today is the continuation of the zoning regulations rewrite workshop discussion. I hear Michael Barnes

and he's talking to somebody. So, Mr. Barnes, um I do have again the email I sent out earlier this week as well as what I had sent to Francisco Gomes and what I sent to you folks as far as issues that have been tabled. So, if anybody needs copies of any of that, I have that here. Can I ask a question about what you got back from? truth calls. I'm I think David Denise is sitting in the other room too. Oh, no. Who? Denise. Oh, cuz it said American Legion room.

Well, you did. But if you look downstairs, they they changed it on me because apparently in the American Legion room, they couldn't get the TV to work here. So, they moved the American Legion room. So, they taped it there and they moved me here. So, I'm sorry. We got moved at the last minute. Not your fault. Not my plan. How's everybody doing? Good. Yeah. I'm just sitting in the other row next time. Last last time I I there was people talking in here and I thought you came in here and cracked a meeting. So I'm like you sat there for 10 minutes at least. He didn't. I did. To be fair, the agenda really did say it was the other room. And you sent out an email but said

absolutely. And then when I came in at six o'clock, they changed it on me because they couldn't get the TV in here to work. actually moved the other the hand sanitizer. You would have seen it's posted nicely on the back of the hand. Okay. So, for the official record um the people in the room this evening, Michael Peter Barnes alternate um is in in attendance as is permanent member Denise Savage. If there is any voting necessary then further voting is it Mr. Barnes's turn.

It'll be Michael Peter Barnes substituting for Michael Miller. If there's any vote, I don't think well or you an adjournment. Oh, then I just won't participate. He loves that. Okay. You had You were about to give me a question regarding the information you got back from Mr. Gold. Did you when we left our last specialty meeting, we you parked some items or we had some questions on some definitions and then did he respond to those per se?

Um I think the definition stuff on the last part here was in response to what I had given to him cuz this is what I sent to him and this is what he sent back. And so you have an extra copy or is that Johnny?

Um I know I have extra copies. So this is this is what I raised with him and um here. This is what he wrote back. So, and we did send him questions about the principal use table there and various definitions. I'm not entirely sure that he responded everything word for word, but again, this is what he did send back regarding um the definitions we sent to him. So, [Applause] And if I need further clarifications, I'm happy to go back and talk to you about that.

Well, just for example, when we left off, we talked on commercial propagation or flowers or something and we're saying, "Oh, does it mention vegetables?" So, is his recommendation based on what you sent him that we just call these commercial nurseries? Yeah, he basically what he's looking for or what he's suggesting at least in the use table rather than try and spell it out in the use table is just to have a simplified term there and if you need to define that term elsewhere you can do that but he he he's not he's trying to move away from having large descriptions in the use table. Okay.

Okay. Um so because I did get back to him particularly regarding like we have full service restaurant 10,000 square feet full 5,000 square feet. Um I did say some of those distinctions are meaningful and he said he would sort of reinccorporate some of those distinctions in but again his general theme was make the use table look simpler and then define it elsewhere as a more extended definition. [Applause] So, how do we propose to organize ourselves for getting through things this evening?

So, we still we left off at a certain point. Was it what section I think because we were we were parking lot items and and moving stuff, but then we stopped at why does section nine something sticks stick in my head? Probably totally wrong. There's no section. You were in the definition section. Let's see if we can figure out exactly where we stopped in the definitions section. Um, [Applause] did we finish up at the water section five?

Okay. So, yeah, I remember yach club. Yeah. Yeah. We then got past Let's see. I I have you stopping at the farm stand. Okay. And then you cuz that's the last one you parked was farm stand. So if you went on beyond that to the end, you know, those are definitions I don't have a discussion on in my previous notes. What page is that please?

Okay, that is on 198. [Applause] Yeah, I had stock I had 197. I I put stock 819. Yeah. Well, again, farm stand is at the bottom of 197. So, basically that's Yeah. So, that's what I put. Okay. back on the uh from just a spot check. I see a couple of things that we suggested like team room. Oh yeah.

Uh pulling restoring the link to the state definition of a cannabis establishment. Okay. Go back in my notes and pull those out. But just to spot check, I see some some gaps from Okay. Well, if there are gaps, I'll try and fill in the gaps with you. [Music] I have a list of what I sent to him. So, I we'll try and get that lined up.

Okay. [Music] illegal definition just as establishment and the current reg. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean what I sent to him has section 26. It says here current regulations defined c can establishment would refer to public act 21-1. The definition issue should be included here and the reference needs to be updated to whatever 21-1 was codified to. So he did say he was working on that. I'm not sure it made it into what he sent back to me.

Okay. It's not in the I didn't see it in the response. No, if it's not, we'll have to keep an eye out for him, but I did talk to him after I sent this to him and he did indicate he was working on that. Okay. We also had Is there going to be a special note on that that it's not allowed in the carnival line? Yes, but it be a definition of it somewhere. And what what Michael was referring to was our definition refers to a public act and that is a four-year-old public act. It's been codified into the statute somewhere. So, so we just need to have a again the actual statutory reference where we presently just have public act. Okay.

Okay. Um, I know you had talked about cemeteries and we're going to have to try and update the cemetery definition based on your family history of cemeteries. Okay. Um, and bottling works. Um, and we talked about how recreational vehicle or trail parking, which a typo. Uh, and T-room. Yes. That's the last here is T-room. Um, for the reasons commission do not come up with, we regulate these, but don't define what one is. commission thought we should probably have a definition of what we thought we were regulating. So that was the last comment I got to him was that. Okay. Okay. Is on the list of things he's supposed to be working on. Thank you. Okay.

Yep. So that brings us back to the bottom of 197 or the top of 198 how you want to look at it and we can sort of go from there and I will keep notes on what we're doing or tableing or or sending back to Francisco. Not to sound inconvenient, but is there any chance you have a I left my notebook in my other vehicle. Is there a chance you have one of these kicking around? No, I do not. This is the only one I got. Come over here and share. Yeah, I'm going to share it. I apologize. I didn't Oh, that's not your fault. I literally Sorry. Which is better. So,

I thought it was No, don't say sorry. I just stole it from you. Mine are in black and white. So there'll be times where you're probably better off looking at hers than mine. So I know. Okay. So with that, are we back to the bottom of 197 here?

Okay. What we did last time is I would just recite the term and see if anybody had any issues that they wanted to raise with it or table it or whatever. So let's start with that. Fence or wall, financial institution. Fullervice restaurant. I'm not sure we want to go restaurant full service or full service restaurant. Either way. Um garage. We have other restaurants in there. Yeah, we have a bunch of different kinds of restaurants. So maybe they should be grouped by restaurant. Well, that's what I what you were just saying. That's exactly what I was just saying. I know. I'm agreeing with you. script.

Although for ease of use for the reader, if it's called full service restaurant in the text of the raind organizational stand, I'm right with you. No, you're right. Okay. And we do have later on takeout restaurant. So, what about cafe? Well, let's go back and look and see what we have for cafe. Uh we have club but we don't have cafe because supposedly cookos with their license liquor license from the state is classified as a cafe. Well we don't try and match liquor license. I mean

cuz again I know chestnut wanted to be sell beer. Okay. We don't really have a category for beer sales as opposed to some some other category. So I wouldn't try and match liquor control line for line on that. Okay. Garage, gas station, generator, golf course, government service, group child care home. Pause. Pause. Pause.

Okay. I just need a little review of that one. And then there's one where um there's more more children allowed. So I just want to make sure that's matched with recent legislation. Pardon me. I think this one's matched to recent legislation. It is. Yeah. So the group child care home is basically a facility that's licensed where the home child care is in somebody's home predominantly. Correct.

We got this one is just for 7 to 12 apparently, right? Because it less than less than seven is one category. More than well, it's a different category. So this is for the very specific 7 to 12. Mhm. And this one is regulated by CGS10-188. That's what it says here. Remember the the legislation correctly is you can't you can't uh you have to treat those in a resial. Okay. Yeah. You you have to treat it as if it were a single family unit. Okay. Okay. Okay. And if you go back to family child care halfome okay which is not more than six. Okay. So that's that one. And then let's see what the the last one community residence I guess it is.

I think I think that I was just one you review the family child care home. Besides the number you can also have one aid or not have an aid where that doesn't apply in this because it just refers us to the regs for the group child care. Yeah, that's it's kind of it gets kind of confusing. It just says administered by a public and private uh school system which is in compliance with 1018. Yeah. Um Okay. As long as we can refer to the statute, that's fine. Yeah. And some of these are not banned, they're or so. Yeah. Or

or which meets the definition of a family childare home. So, can we continue or are we please? Okay. Guest house. Handicap access to residential structures. Pause. Pause. Helis stop. I think we had it in our old regs and I didn't find it. I missed that one here. Did anyone else find stop? Do you want helop back in stop? Oh, there was a guy that wanted a helicopter landing pad. Two of them I think we had to regulate.

I think we had it in our current reg. But I just I just need a little note. It's in it's Japan exist this seetop in list of prohibited uses under 24. a landing and takeoff pad for pick up and discharge of passengers by helicopter. Okay. So, it's defined elsewhere basically that it doesn't need to be defined. Right. Thank you. Okay. Now, that makes good catch. That might not with what you were just saying that he wants the definitions out of the way. If they fly the helicopter themselves, does that exact

Okay. Home occupation. I think it means as a a passenger helicopter versus a cargo lift helicopter. No, no, I understand what I'm saying. Like like so it's a type of helicopter, not Yeah. specifically passengers. I don't think

we fine. He's a little older. Okay. Home occupation. Uh indoor recreational facility in in up to no more room than 40 rooms. Um, do we have anything that's up to 40 rooms? It's it's a lot of lot of rooms, but I guess what we have. Okay. Institutional use. Um, keeping of pets. Oh, no.

Seemed like a bit of a redundant definition there, by the way, but I'll just leave it at that. Customary pet animals. What's the difference between a pet and an animal? I again, I'll leave it. Go. Uh, laundromat. Laboratory or laundry facilities accessory to a marine facility. Michael, any thoughts on that one? I haven't discussed on how it would be used later on if it's used somewhere else. Okay. Letting of rooms, manufacturer, marine facility. One second.

Yeah. I just had a question on the letting of rooms. Was that did the the is the red changed? Cuz the usually when it's red, the whole thing is red. So I just have a Yeah, I guess they added in additional language in there that it wasn't in there before. I think it's it's the must be that the wedding room has changed rather than anything else cuz Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do we know what it changed from? Well, let's let's pull out if you have anything. Okay. Well, let's pull out section three and see here in a sec. [Applause] [Music] And it might not be under

it's not defined in the definition this portion. So, let's see if we've got it elsewhere. It's it's on um page 22 on accessory use. Okay. May question is is it a new definition that is not in our present regific and I don't see a definition for it. Okay. But there are regulations addressing it. Well, that's why he's adding a new definition. Yeah. But the the point being that the entire then the entire thing should be in one color.

And what I'm asking it you can't look up letting of rooms. That's what's here. You'd have to look at what they replaced. Yeah. And we don't know what they replace. The rights addressing boarding house letting of rooms in the current house. Okay. Yeah. A building where law it's never a standalone. It's boarding house letting of rooms but there's no definition for letting rooms. Okay. So maybe they did they take out boarding house. Yes. Boarding house. That has to be it. So that's what I'm saying. But that that's where that's what he boarding horses but no boarding house. Okay. Okay. So, he took out the board. He got adjusted to letting I just want to know what the change was cuz I'm like, okay, good. And the same thing with the next the you know the next red one sales

when we get there. Okay. Sales is next up. So, what was it? What was it previously? I'm not sure we had a definition previously. So, yeah. Are they introducing it somewhere else when they do that again? I'm sorry. Well, this one actually is in balloon. So maybe that is research facilities. The red is a change, right? Yeah. And the blue is new. The blue is new cuz I don't remember. So I have I have sales. Yeah. Marine facility. But I don't have anything that says marine marine related sales or Okay. That's new.

The current rigs have permitted their permitted uses for water WF20. that marine facility capitalizes the definition. Okay. Boat livery and then just the text sail off or ship channel including the sale of marine equipment, engines, bait and tackle. Oh, so what did they call it? It's on it's not doesn't have a folded. Yeah. And then comma marine research facility and we don't have a definition of that presently either I don't think. Okay. So, so it looks like he broke it and they Yeah, looks like he broke it. So, he took essentially a self-defining and pulled out a definition. Yeah. So, marine related sales he's calling it and then marine research facility.

Okay. Okay. So, on the research facility, I was thinking about the um facility Roger Tori. So, it doesn't indicate summer school classes or presentations to the public. Well, but it talks about educational institution. So I I think that's probably folded in. You know, they they can Okay. Okay. So they can um classes and during the summer trip.

Yeah. You you guys previously approved that under your special per I'm comfortable saying that it it folds into here. I think that this is expanding it to be that because it's saying if you have an educational facility, it could also be a marine research facility. Okay. Cuz research is gets into different things than just educational, right? Right. So I think it's the I think it's, you know, I don't think you'd expect them to say the education piece here. It's kind of like two different definitions. Okay. As long as everyone about that memorial garden mixed use. So can we park mixed use please? Yeah.

Okay. We will park mixed use which is just it's sort of whatever permutations and combinations and depends on what the right refers to. Well, you allow it only one place in town right now. So, and that's Sound View. And Sound View has sort of has its own terms and definitions and everything else. So, that maybe But it's blue. So, it's a new definition. So, I think that's is that why you want to park it, Jane? Because I'd like to know where he got the language from. Okay. Cuz it's loaded. Is that what you're thinking is, Jane? Yeah. And I want um because it's what is required for each one of these uses. It's not that you can just throw them all together. Hallelujah. Any permutation accommodation. Yeah.

Okay. Well, again, it's a special permit use. So, you have some ability to play with it when they come with a special permit. But that said, I will arc it. We'll go back and get more information. Regulations around. Okay. Yeah. Um, mortuary or funeral home? Display of the deceased. My goodness. Is that new motor vehicle service multiple dwelling development? You probably change that from multiple dwelling units is my guess, right?

You can park that development in red. Yeah, I'm not sure. It was it was developed. It was defined at all. Look, let me let me pull out old brakes. Look see what? Yeah. This is basically saying cuz you're allowing more than two or more multiple dwellings on a lot. So then he's calling that a development. Okay. We have multiple dwelling and we have multiple dwelling project. So I think what he's done is he's taken multiple dwelling project and said it's multiple dwelling development instead. Yeah, that's probably better. No problem. Okay, Michael, are you still parking now? No, it's okay.

Okay. Um, nursing home. And again, I think this is largely defined by again that chapter of the general statutes, but off- streetet parking, outdoor recreational facility, outdoor vending machine, package store. No, you skipped over outdoor storage of goods. Outdoor storage of goods. I'm sorry. You're right.

Yeah, that one you can park on me, please. Um because you don't want it as a principal. It talks about only a success rate to a principal use. That's that's your issue there. Or is it just you you want to think about it more? Yeah, I want to just Yeah, both that too. That's one of the issues. Okay. Um you're right. Okay. Let's go to package store park planned residential conservation development. Hold on.

So that's not being defined in the current. Is it a PC? We have well no PC is entirely you that that's the one that basically you you use two different terms for the same thing. And so he's consolidating that term together there. So I can go pull where we are on the regs with that. But again, that was one where I think if I recall correctly, you guys had two different terms that you used for more or less the same. Yeah. Plan residential conservation development in section 12.

Yeah, I forget the RC PRC was cluster. No, not constellation. [Music]

Okay. uh land reservation conservation development but then you again it's referred to as as something else further on so I think he's trying to consolidate that that definition in but I don't think you have a definition let's see okay that definition is in section 12 I'll read what it says in section 12 here and you can compare plan residential conservation development means the development maintenance and use in compliance with the provisions of This section pursuant to a special permit granted by the planning commission of an area of land in the town as a single entity for dwelling units according to a plan which does not conform in one or more respects to the standard governing to the standards rather governing the size and dimensions of lots and the type of improvements that may be constructed thereon as provided for other sections of these regulations. It's the same.

Okay. Do you like the new one better? You want the old one back? What What are your thoughts here? Train station.

I think so. Right. Easier to understand. Okay. Well, then we'll leave it as is. Okay. under a definition. It's just kind of content rather than put the whole regulation. There you go. I agree. So there's no more plan. There's no no more clustering. No more PRCD with CC for cluster. Well, I think that's what he was saying. You you you used those terms interchangeably and they were they meant the same thing. So he just uses PRCD where you you had those terms sort of interchangeably and it's used in the conservation development because of the bad connotation of the word cluster

which a lot of planning commission switch and zoning commission switched over to using conservation zoning instead of cluster zoning. Okay. Playground. primary or secondary school. PI he had said oh no sorry go ahead. So this this is one of the ones that he modified right based on looking at his list sorry to cross reference multiple things.

So the old line zoning items for discussion number three. So he said include all of the customary accessory uses. So that's what he's added to the It's interesting. It says meet state of Connecticut licensing requirements, but it doesn't say it has a license. True. Would you want to make that change? Or I'm sort of curious as to why we wouldn't say that.

Maybe they need the space in order to apply for the license. Um I don't know. If you want me to ask about it. Yeah, please. Okay. Okay. Um anything else while we're still on that definition? Okay. Private boat house or dock? Michael? So that's a new definition cuz it's blue. Yes. Yeah. You can park that down for me just while I analyze it. Okay. Private dog kennel, private school. And again same issue about

which meets the requirements. Do it doesn't. Okay. um propane tank or above ground oil tank public utility facility. I have some questions about that. Okay. If we want to talk about it or just park it like Well, are we easy questions to discuss now? um public utility facility maintenance of a public utility to your communications or something. I'm just trying to think of a scenario where this exists. Well, so anything that's water utility.

Yeah. Like the new dioxide station would be covered by this. Okay. Yep. Um if you have a power substation, but so like those are private entities, not public. They call what they call But they're called public utilities, which is different. Yeah. They're public utilities, but they they could be privately owned. It's not the same as public private that you normally think of. Yeah. No, I understand. So, but I guess my question is is it like if can a private vendor just say they supply the public and create a facility in an area that's not they regulated by pure? Okay.

It's it's it's not just the public. It's a public utility. So they have to facilitate. I don't really like that word but yeah that facilitate the operation. So does public utility need a reference to some public utility is a definition in the state statute. So that and that term can't be separated out. It's not public. It's Yeah, that's what I meant. So we need a reference to Yeah. Just to pin it down on what like a solar farm. I'm going to build a solar farm that's going to throw energy back to the grid that becomes a public utility. Yes. And you have to apply to PR to do that. I'm just making sure we're not losing any slack and having this new definition.

Sorry. Do you want me to inquire if we want to refer to the CGS for public utility definition? Yes. Okay. Okay. I will mark that as something to go back to Francisco regarding. Okay. Uh recreational entertainment facility. [Applause] recreational vehicle or trailer parking. Right. That's Yeah, that one I'd like to park it. Um yeah.

Okay. Rental or leasing of automobiles research lab. Sorry. What the rental? Okay. Okay. And as I said my earlier email, Michael, at some point we're going to need to sort of unpack these. I'm ready to embark on Zoom. We just we are still going through the list. That's fine. Research research laboratory, retail establishment, roadside shelters for school children. Wait, can we go retail the

retail establishment? Why is it primarily for personal or household? Yeah, I agree. I think that's too too Why couldn't it be for commercial? I'll ask. I was going to ask. And usually those are more wholesale as opposed to retail, but I'm not sure we make the distinction in our rights about that. Only if you are incorporating it for you're going to then sell it as part of a product. Yeah. But for example, a business buys stationary that's not for resale. So um I'll go back and ask about why personal or household consumption.

Anything else before we move on? Okay. Um roadside shelters for school children. Sale of fuels or lubricants for boats. Michael any no self storage facility septic septage storage and transfer facility shared septic system. Um so is there going to be like besides CGS for this? I I feel like um just with everything going on with sewers in this town right now

that might be health code. It's health code. Yeah. Health code. Well, that but just in terms of what the I just want to make sure we get these definitions right because there's a lot of discussion on that with what the shared septic facility. I don't know. I just want to make sure. I don't have any experience with um I mean that's aation that's a a state health code issue. I know just from dealing with it on a regular basis. I mean, if two buildings use one septic, it's a state health code review. And I, you know, that I'll see I'm just wondering, is there a state health code definition that we should be referencing that instead of coming up with our own? Okay, let me let me see where that came from. It's

designed to serve multiple properties or buildings. So, you can have multiple buildings on a single property. So, that's allocating that by saying or buildings. Yeah. I mean, what happens in a lot of these beach communities is that you've got basically a garage and the garage is either on a separate parcel or the same parcel, but it shares the septic with the main house. And so this is sort of taking into account that no matter if whether the garage is across the road or whether it's on the same piece, Yeah. if it goes to the same septic system, it's shared. Gota even looked at a shared system for the whole town initially going back to 2011. So well yeah that's a separate issue there but

but this definition is very general I can this is for septic not just wastewater waste water is more of a facility. Mhm. Um but uh no, again, frequently when I hear the discussions over at the ledge lights thing, they're like, if you can put a breezeway, just connect the building together and that way it considered one building for our purposes and you can do it. Otherwise, it's a state health code issue and you have to go to Hartford for it. So anyway, let's leave we'll leave that aside for now. I'll ask where that came from and make sure we're tied into the state definition.

Uh sign. Okay, this is a really long definition. They they went out of their way. That was good. But but why did they not touch that? Because this is the is black, so it's current. It is entirely the current definition. They didn't see any need to streamline that. Well, they made sure the cover is on every other angle. Yeah. I mean, I I think they were trying to cast as broad a net as possible. If you want me to ask if they can streamline it, I can certainly go back and ask. I'm just asking the group. Do you guys think we need it? Yes. Yes, you need it.

No, I'm sorry. Obviously, we need it. Do we need it to be 10 lines is or maybe we do? This particular one, I wouldn't mind it being 10 lines. Okay. What we get? Signs are Signs are a big deal. They are a big deal. Signs are controversial. That's why it's that's why it's so long. Yeah, especially for old line. But sometimes longer isn't necessarily less controversial. It's not the controversy, but it is the zoning enforcement officer trying to figure out what he just saw. Is it a sign or not? So, it's also a blueprint to slip between those definitions

and we have to have Yes. Because all the internally lit signs that got approved by our previous CEO, he he didn't read internally lit compared to some of the other things on this are No, I agree. It's a very long definition, but I think it's a very long definition on purpose. And I suspect that last time they were going through this that Mark Brance added a lot of words in here because he was trying to cover all the different possibilities there. This may in fact be his standard definition, his standard regulations. So, okay. Okay. Single family dwelling. I I got some questions about that one. Um, for occupancy for occupancy by one family. Yeah, we are. That's the definition of family.

Single family. That's what Yeah. I would consider taking family out of there for this household. Do we have a definition of family? We do, don't we? Well, let's take a look.

We do not. We used to. No, we do. We do. It's in the previous section. Family. Any individual, any number of individuals related by blood, marriage or adoption and living together as a single household or as a group of not more than six people who need not to be so related living together as a single household unit. A rumor or authorized under these regulations and the bonafide domestic servants and temporary guests of the family shall not be considered a member of the family for purposes of this definition. Right. We parked this one. Yeah. Yep. So we should then part single family. Oh, single family is fun.

Well, single family is going to be tied back to whatever we define family as, right? Because you're saying that you only get one of whatever is in that family category. We can park it if you want, but that's I guess maybe maybe just make a note to ensure that that actually we actually do that. Maybe Okay, that's fair. I will I will say tied to family. Okay, this is where That's a that's a broken record. You capitalize your terms that was capital family. It would tell you that it's specific and not a generic.

Okay, I understand. And I've raised that point with him. It was in the list of things that went through last time. Okay. Structure or rooftop mounted antenna? [Applause] Okay. I'm assuming that includes dishes. Um I think it does. Yeah. Dishes and antenna. Veterinary hospital. No, we got to go through that. Nope. I'm sorry. Did I skip over? I'm sorry. I skipped over a page. Not trying to get through quickly. I'm sorry.

Uh tag sale. Wonder. Are we good? Not good. Okay. Takeout restaurant. I just They add the they added the with only incidental on prime system. I'm trying to guess

what's considered incidental. Well, that's like a recipe. I mean, if you if they put a picnic table out front, someone takes a picnic table and eats the fries. Yeah. I just want to make sure we're not like the like the Mexican restaurant, right? Like is that a takeout that has two seats or is it like a place that was approved? That's a takeout. A significant portion. Okay. Okay. Telecommunications teller. Telecommunications antenna telecommunications equipment building. So just a question isn't telecommunications antenna out of our purview. It is.

It is. Yeah. Yeah. It's state says it's it's entirely governed by federal the federal not the state. No, it's it's it's Well, no, I mean the sighting council that governs it statewide. Okay. The sighting council preempts us. Yeah. I mean, I get nice thick packets from sighting council. I can't really do much with them other than give them to the building official, but no, we're exempted, right? Terrace, theater, tourist home. I'm interested to see where they going to utilize that. Is that already

It's already there, I think. But what's I always confused. So blue is a new definition. I think the term is used bed and breakfast. No, bed and breakfast is different. So does that Okay. So, but does that suggest then that we need to go back and look at why we're talking about closed homes in our regs? Yes, absolutely it does. But that's I think more of a phase two thing than a phase one thing. But it is not operated as a commercial hotel or mot. That's a confusing definition. Is that like a guest house? Could be like the Airbnb for everybody. Well, that's Yeah, Airbnb. And and

my understanding and my recollection is tour zones are only allowed in Sound View. Well, so that's that could be considered a problem, right? If if other homes are Let's see. whatever the use of St. District SD. Okay. Well, it's amazing because all up and down the whole shore of of Gold Line, that's what's happening. Well, sure, but in Gold Line itself and all the other beaches, that's what they were. It's only allowed in sound view. It's kind of a haha. Um, trailer construction storage office.

You good, Michael? Uh, the next honestly the next five. The next five. Yeah. All the way down to what? Two family dwelling. Yep. Okay. You're parking every Yeah. I'm going to analyze those this. Okay. I'm going to get a list from you from all the ones that I parked so I can Yeah, I I will send that email out, but not until tomorrow. I'm expecting it after this meeting tonight. Never. It's call me. You're lucky I'm here. Okay. Jewish holiday tonight. I don't even I was just joking.

Veterinary hospital. Okay. Veterinary clinic. Um, I just want to make sure we're not including either of the two vets. I wonder why it's only small animals. I am guessing bigger animals have to go to the the hospital there, but I'm not sure you the smaller clinics are designed for horses. Yeah, but you're not going to bring your horse to the hospital. [Music] It's great. I think is that what it is? The vets's going to come to you.

Set up a clinic. It's like when we set up a clinic for, you know, giving everybody shots all at once. They'll set up a clinic so that they'll have, you know, a rabies clinic or something. But also, the hospital also specifically has in overnight warning. I mean, that's really the difference overnight. Yeah. But not only because it looks like the definition is is to set it off from from clinic, which is strictly out, right? I guess that's the big thing. inpatient or outpatient and that's that's the and I guess the question would be do they look are they looking at setting it up on a temporary

you know cuz they'll do that they'll set up a temporary clinic for rabies shots or something like that so I guess that would be my question is does this cover you know the temporary type things I I'm guessing that that's probably more going to be in the use table but we can take a look okay um warehouse I just got some questions about that one. Um, for instance, like Kellogg, they are able, they sell their products out of their place, right? So, I don't want to preclude their def I don't want to affect their ability to do business with this definition.

No, it just says primarily used for. So, you can have an accessory use there that's for sale as long as the primary use is for storage. It doesn't say primary here in that sentence. It says a building or structure used primarily for the storage, distribution or handling of goods. Yeah. But then it says warehouses may include but do not include. So it's not may include associated activities such as inventory management or processing of goods but not include retail sales and processing of goods. Okay. What would be considered processing of goods? Is that like is that an electrician? Starting to do stuff with it not just storing.

Well do we have a different how is that different from order fulfillment and packaging? which is a lot of that that's not making anything like when the car comes off Yeah. the boat wherever it's come I just don't like that do not do retail sales. So what I think is if you get an approval for I might have to have a separate retail sales I I think that's that's fine. That's all one definition. Okay. It's basically a building or structure used primarily for the storage, distribution or handling of goods, merchandise or materials that also okay distributes them.

Yeah. But so that's like an Amazon warehouse. They bring stuff in. His point is that they retail sales out of Kellogg Marine. And I think the answer was that that's a separate special permit category permit for. So I think that you need to then ask for both special permits for both warehousing and for retailing at that location then. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yacht club. Um wasn't there a thing that said it didn't Well, it wasn't permitted in the waterfront zone. That was what it was. Yeah. Just for you. Wait, do you have a yacht club in a waterfront zone? No, not in the waterfront though. That's not a definition issue. On a trailer. What about on your trailer?

In a warehouse. Let's get back to the definitions here. That's the last one. Be good. Okay. So, that's that. Then you guys wanted to look at other things in the ranks tonight. Yeah. And we're at 7:21. So we finished the definitions. The other things that I that I just had noted when we were meeting with the consultant was to look at everything that's in red and blue. Now a lot of that is definitions but not only. Okay,

we've obviously looked at everything in what was it section five or whatever the reg whatever the use regulations were so we don't have to do that but um the idea was that we need to look at everything that was red or blue in because that's where the changes are. So outside of what we've already looked at, the definitions, the the regul the regulations and the sensory stuff, we should be looking at everything that's in red and blue. Start back in article one. Mine are in black and white. So I'm going to rely on people with color to be able to tell me what's what we're looking at here. But I would just start in article one and start start flipping forward. See what we get.

Article one. I think um I mentioned this before. I think we need to take a look at the way character is used in this because of PA 2129. can't make zoning decisions based on a subjective reference to character. It's got to be measurable specific.

What's interesting is this number five here and that's right. That's the first under the purpose. Um so maybe a way to do that would be to to establish the a reference for character in each of the each of the districts. Is there nail therefore on page one?

Yeah, that's I just read something somewhere and that was my concern was the subjectiveness of the character definition. But is that change? I guess that is changing the substance and that's going to be in our next phase. No, getting in compliance with with state regist. I don't think it's that you cannot use that word. You can't have that be the only reason you turned down something. So, it's not that you can't use the word. The word is still okay word. You just can't say that the reason I'm denying your um application is because it doesn't suit the character of the town. You have to be more specific. And I think

in our preamble, we could use that word. Yeah. I think think the point here is this almost is pulling in the POC language here. So I think as a goal of the PC to preserve the rural character of online is probably a valid goal. The question is how you translate the goal into the actual rig. So I I'm okay with it being here as is. The question is how do we use it later where it becomes important. And I saw there's one instance in there where it is laid out where character is referenced and there are objective measurable attributes that are in it. I can check those real quick but if you want to move on

this is an important discussion. I agree with you. [Music] I think the biggest discussion and if we won't answer we'll have to research it. Does it mean we you know we just have the question leaving that in there. Does it still meet state any changes in state statute? I think that's the important but I I will go back and ask you. So in the updated regs I put a note that is it looks like uh section 4.2.3A5 has a an objective character. So you said 342 2.3

page five. Let's go find it. Four 2.3. Okay. So page 12 43. You sure it's not B5? Yeah, it's B5. Yeah, it's B5. No, 43, not 42. 43. There we go. 43. 432. It's also in 423. It's in 423. The character of the neighborhood, including the scale of other buildings or structures in the area, the streetscape,

impact on marine or coastal vistas as viewed from public streets or other public viewing areas. Yeah, that's one as an example. Yeah, I mean rural character can be a whole lot more than that. But if the point is that we want to be we would want to be more explicit about what that was because character is a perfectly good word. But it's that's not the word. It's how we're using it. Yeah. And so if you have the word and you say like rural character, then you have to say, well, what is rural character?

Is it not having to wait 20 minutes at every street light as you drive through town? [Music] Okay. So, I I I've noted that we want to go back and and see how we use character here, but I'm going to skip over trying to change it for now for this phase is just to make sure it's compliant with the updated state. That's the key language. Yeah. State just make sure that we're not inv Okay. Um, anything else on the first page there? Wait. So, we're we're back on page one. Yeah. Again, we're just looking at the the color and I

Yeah, unfortunately. The first red that I'm seeing is on page two 1.5. I might have a different I've got I'm on the same one on that one. Great. That's the first I have. Okay. Yeah. So, um so it's 1.5. Um, and I'm looking. Um, obviously the first A is fine, but B, um, so I'm just I I know I have a question mark on there. So, it just was looking at that one. So, what is what is your question? Just discuss it.

It's basically saying the new regulations don't override the previous that's called zoning. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I was looking at that if we change it and they No. So if they have a vi So right now they have a violation. Mhm. Yeah. But we changed the regulation so they're no longer It's one thing and if we change regulations and they still have a violation.

Yeah. But if all of us but if all of a sudden they don't have a violation anymore because we said like oh well that was a stupid regulation and we made them non-compliant or we made them have a violation but we change them with this vi you know we changed the regs and we know that this do we still want to be pursuing the violation that was my what I was looking at maybe that can be rewarded by Francisco Eric okay I understand that now basically is is if if the if it's still prohib prohibited the violation continues. But if it's now permitted, then violation goes away. Yeah. I mean,

how can you find somebody for what now is okay? That wasn't yesterday. Yeah. I mean, we usually think of going that zoning gets more restrictive, but if we actually change the zoning, loosen it so that it was less restrictive, the vi that was that was my question. just the way it was worded it was like okay I I'll go back and talk about that with him I have a feeling though that that you really that's not really what happens just because you adopt a new regulation it isn't really what happens that it's all forgiven and and it just goes away um because these and I think it's partly the way we have to do zoning is that because the opposite is true

that if something is um legally existing at the time and make it not legal. I don't think you can just say the violation goes away. Is there a process for like appeals? I would have to say even if you were in jail for a crime and they decided the crime was not not such a bad crime after all. You're in the jail for for smoking marijuana or something and then they make marijuana legal. They don't let you out immediately. They don't let you out unless something happens, right? And that's and so that's I think then so is there's language in here that describes yeah I guess that's what I'm looking at. Let's see if Francisco what's the remediation to your point I agree it should not be an automatic and I think it's something that

and other towns must have dealt with this as well we would have to come back and say are you willing to let us do this now um because I don't think you can have anything be automatic I agree I agree with you and they still may need a dog permit so we want but it just may be that we need to amend them well we need to see really what they are Yeah, because maybe what we're doing still in some way, it's not legal. Okay, that's that's different. If it's still not legal, I'm talking about if I think that's why this is here so nobody gets somehow claims immediate forgiveness and that they can but but it's noted right. It's got to be Well, let me go back and talk to you about Yeah, there needs to be some type of remediation.

I was just I think Eric brought up a good point. I'm sure other towns we we know other towns have just gone through this. So that' be useful. Got to have best practices. Yeah. Let me ask what other towns are doing on that. Okay. Well, makes sense. If for no other reason than we're going to have to set ourselves another very um aggressive meeting schedule for immediately after effects, people coming in and potentially appealing decisions. Well, those will all go to ZBA. Not for you. It'll be ZBA. Let's do it. Some hate, pain, and discontent.

Oh, let you know. Okay. So, the ne the next red is under 1.5D and it starts with the third third sentence where it says except as applicable to a vacant lot shown on a subdivision or reubdition plan. So, basically that And that's that's the law. That's just the law. Yes, that's good. We just need to go through.

Okay. Where's our next stop here? Yep. Okay. Skipping ahead. So that's just the first sentence and sayure building make me understand why they're adding this in. Is that okay? Um it's it's a modification of existing language.

Yeah. I mean I think it's sort of the merging of a few different things here. you know, ultimately, um, it gives you time to rebuild something that was destroyed by a calamity of some sort. And that's already in the regs, I think, elsewhere, and they're sort of putting it two rags into one, which is, I guess, why you're seeing 903 and 904 here. We we already allow that in our rigs. Now, is there a reason they limit it to one year? Like is there ability to extend that longer or that's Yeah, that's that's something that if we wanted to do that this is I mean we're making all kinds of modifications. It says not to exceed two years if you have to.

Yeah. What I'm saying is that would be substantial that we would do it in the next phase and and also says as Paul just said or within additional periods not to exceed two years as a zoning commission may grant. You have three total you got three total years. Okay. So, it's just that one sentence we're looking at to see if I think they just redid it. It looks like it's okay to me. This this makes me a little uncomfortable how the the commission gets so much leeway on the extension. Like, what what why would we prohibit somebody from rebuilding a non-performing use that came down by casualty? Um

because some people let fire prior to their nonconformist. Well, and there's also a sense of that's why you know next have there's also the issue that as a general rule once you lose a nonconformity it it's gone. So the whole idea is they don't want this nonconformity hanging around as a burntout building forever. Either you're going to tear it down, you lose non-conformity, or you're going to rebuild it. But everybody's not in a financial position all the time. Let's just assume that they do want to rebuild it, but they might not have the entire insurance. They don't have the money. So, I don't think they should be h

How long would be a whole town that looks like a barrel place? You can't do that. If Cherry Stones had burned down Yeah. and it got to sit there for however long it's been sitting there. Yeah. But, so it has to sit there burned out. Like if you took the building down then it'd be gone. Yeah. No, I understand that. But it's gone by casualty anyway. So what's you don't rebuild it within 3 years. It's putting it back. I don't have I understand the three years. All I'm concerned about is the subjectivity of the of the commission having the authority. You think you're not thinking clearly?

Every everything all the time is in the process of deteriorating. You you'd have an entire town that was all non-conforming uses. You just completely gut your zoning regulations. You have to have it be put back otherwise you can't regulate anything. I guess the question that you had, Michael, is why don't we just make it 3 years flat out and leave it at 3 years without more. No, no, that I was totally free. It was just my concern was is that the groups of people change within the commission and we cannot might not be here in the future. for reasonable people. Sometimes you're going to have unreasonable people on these commissions who might go out of their way to stop somebody's ability of making a living. How is this additional periods approved or not approved?

That's that's what I'm getting at. Like that's my concern is that it's so subjective that you're allowed to if we feel like it, but if we don't feel like it, you're out of luck. Yeah. But that's when you go to zoning board of they have this they can still go to zoning board of appeals on that if they thought if they thought after the 3 years we were arbitrary and made no three years after the one year even well one year with one with two years extension one year's automatic and two years discretionary yeah the discretionary part and that's the thing we if we didn't grant it let's say we we decided that no but they they can bring it to zoning board of appeal and say and plead hardship is my guess correct if we may decision.

After one year, you've got to Yeah, that's what you got to come back. Keep the pressure on. After one year, you have to come back. Well, that's what he doesn't like the pressure being on. No, it's not the pressure not being on. It's not that everybody's in a position to be able to to do that. Like I I own several commercial properties. If one of my properties burns, I might not be able to build it back in here. Okay. But you can clean it up. Absolutely. This doesn't say anything about cleaning it up. This is specific to Let's just pretend for a second the building's gone. It burned. They knocked it down. it's gone. If it's nonconforming, you still have to remember that what burned was already nonconforming. It wasn't conforming, right?

So, it's nonconforming and you wanting to maintain not the ability to build back anything, but to build back what didn't conform to the regulations. So, it it has to be that non-conforming. If you build something that conforms, you're fine. Here's an example. Kathy Clark's hospital burns down. Yep. And she doesn't build it for one year and we decide she doesn't get an extension, she can't put her veterary hospital back, right? If he doesn't sell the land now because it's it wasn't I think in most cases a reasonable person would carry insurance. So insurance can be well and again

I think the thing is is this getting into substantive change or we're not that's for yeah that's a change for that would be for right here is the red we're considering the red the carve out that was done with the red but this here is what we have under regulations And if you want to change that, that comes at the substantive time. Otherwise, so you could just make a note that you revisit. No, I'm not saying it's a great discussion. I think we're just pointing out that what we're discussing now is direct. So that's just keep moving forward.

Let's keep moving. Okay, we'll come come back phase two on that. Okay, so we did all section five, right? And you did all section five. All section six. I did all section six.

Yes. I don't know if this is appropriate for this phase, but this language is basically cloned out of the state rags. Yeah. So, we have this extensive se section here on adult entertainment and you'd ask me to check on whether almost a straight lift. So, can we not enter

radically abbreviate this point of the state right? Yeah, I that's what I would reference. He did a definition. He just referred it to referred to the state. Yeah. Okay. I will ask. But is it a prohibited to use in a lot? Right. Well, you have to allow it somewhere. I think Yeah, I think that's why it's there, right? Yep. It's like a freedom of expression or something. I mean, honestly, there's a first amendment lawyer this is that you're going to end up in trouble. Just, you know. No, I mean, try not to define it at this point. obvious use. Okay.

So, so uh so there's two pieces that we're discussing then just if we're going to build on kind of the discussion we just had the red. So are we saying we don't even need to consider the red because the entire section should just say C state statute ABC that could be too. Well that's what they did in the back definition. So we don't need to go through this just say all the citations about it in 715 both below it and all those. So I see why it's in here which is to be very specific about what you're prohibiting what it is. Yeah. But my question is should do we need to clone it well

andate it from the state record. Let me go back and ask that issue and if we need to come back and revisit this later we can. We don't minding what it is. But it it's saying application requirements. If you don't allow it, why is there an application requirement section? Well, I think again the answer is theoretically you have to allow this use somewhere in town. You do? Yeah, that's I thought that we had prohibited that. I Well, let's see if you're unless somebody sees the talent and they have had that. No, I think under first amendment. No, you would. I will not I mean I kind of agree that's something with that I forget.

Okay, let me because I vaguely remember a discussion we had few years ago that why was all this in here when it's prohibited. But no, it was never prohibited because it was allowed. That's been Paul's road C30 allows for adult entertainment. That's what Dave Kelsey would always bring up a big deal. How come I can't do this? But I if I want to put an adult entertainment facility in, I can. It's not in your prohibited uses section. Put it that way. Wow. So, I thought you said you just found it. It's absolutely in the old regulations. It's allowed in C10, C30, and C30.

Yeah. If you look at our rigs right now, it's the very first thing in the identifiable. Maybe we need to change that then. We may have changed this on. Okay. say sound, right? It's just not in the industrial zone cuz then they get the 95 track. Maybe that was No, really. Yeah. No, you're right. You I made a comment about that last time and that wasn't good. But no, that's it. You don't need that again. No, I'm not going to. I picked them. I'm not stupid. But um but it was innocent but it just um you can't you can't just well that's different discussion. We can't limit it just to

have it somewhere. We should have it only in one zone not and not in C3 C10 or C light industrial. No cuz then it's right off the highway and someone can actually get it right. You're going to have we some of these properties have road frontage on the interstate rational for putting it in see in the hall's road was it because it's so ridiculous it would never get approved. No, cuz it's not it's a permitted use. It's not even a special exception. It's a site plan. It's not permitted. It's site plan. Okay. Site plan. So the site plan would never get So the discussion that we're So the discussion that we're having is is a bigger discussion

as long as why don't we if we section because we apparently permitted something. So why don't we you know so I think the language in red is fine for now and if we need to change it when we change the whole thing but I was our sleeve that I would just add one thing that in compliance with CGS whatever and that cleans it up the whole thing still be abbreviated yes the whole section or just this whole section refer to the state definition there's still a process described here

yeah because it's what I'm what I'm saying is just so we can get through this. We'll leave the red in here for now. It's okay. And then we'll have to have that because I think that I think that this changing this whole thing I think is just too sub, you know, I don't think that's just a cleanup. I agree. Cuz we'd have to look at the state regs and make sure they're exactly what we want. And I I think it's I think it's a bigger deal, right? Some things you just refer to state statute, but I think that's a big I think it's a bigger deal. So, just depending on state,

I will say, by the way, 230 or C10 or C whatever notwithstanding it's at in your 7 714 it says no adult entertainment shall be established within um let's see 1,000 or 300 ft of a residential use or district or a th000 ft of any public private parochial school daycare center library museum park playground or other recreation facility um or other areas where miners regularly travel congregate in any zone. Yeah. Um, so I think good chunks of that prohibited that that pretty much wipes out almost anywhere in Interesting that it doesn't say houses of worship.

No, I think it it does property line any church. Oh, church. I'm sorry. I missed that first word. Similar say worship, too. Yeah. Or both. Or cemetery. Well, I mean, they would hurt people. I mean, my grandmother would be rolling over in her dream. I'm just saying. Okay. Okay. So, we're going to park that for the next round of discussion. I just think it's a big I even though it even though it is kind of a if you just say refer to state statute like we did in definition, but I think that this is so big because it's multiple section. I was saying it as a as a more of a house cleaning because it's because it's just a lift from just refer back. But if maybe there's parts of it like the definition section I think we I think we need to look at it make sure

it's definitely a candidate for se for the second phase. But so actually though, why is there a holding of definitions? Why wouldn't that just go in the definition section? I thought the whole I thought that was one of the cleanup things was taking definitions out of the I I seem to recall that everyone freaked out when they saw all of these definitions in the general definition section as to what you know why why do we have this in the general definition section that we don't you know we hate this and we don't want to we don't want to have to see it. So I think the thought was put it here. We're not no one's going to see it and people aren't going to freak out as as frequently because again unless you know discomfort aside it's just a maintenance issue yeah I I think freak out

instead of duplicate diverge just refer back to the authoritative let me go back to Francisco and ask about that generally and let's I'll come back with a report about what he has to say about battles. Will you ask him why you're there just for our next phase. Okay. Under the definition 7.1 7.1.5.A. If we can in the future um address that second phrase

because it's an adult entertainment business any establishment which is customarily not open to the public generally but only to one or more classes of the public thereby excluding any minor members of each I don't know why we have to say but only to one or more classes of the public meaning adults it sounds classes it sounds yeah wrong put an page. Okay. Well, you know, it says what have I excluded any minor reason? Yeah. So, right now, you know what? Yeah. So, I don't need all that class. That may be again part of the state definition someplace and that's something I want to get to go back and check. So, ask him.

I mean, I wouldn't be opposed if he came back and said, "Well, here's a better way to rewrite this section and it's just referring to the state." Okay. That's what he came back to us. code. P E N A F. Yes. Okay, let's go. Let's keep going. Let's keep going.

I think that's too Yeah. Everything that'll be up that'll be up on the website tomorrow. Community Did you hear what Mary says? All right. Community residences is something that he referred to specifically as well, wasn't it? Yeah, it's I think another state where that page 27 77. How did we get here? We're at one something. They're at page 27.

Maybe we're skipping. Oh, I see. Our 27 went to 192. Everything's right here. I know. I I I No, you can't because it'll be up. Well, I guess you can't because it'll be upside down. But I think that's 56. If you're going to keep turning the page to the right. There we go. Every every once in a while I do that. I do this and I go like okay so 77 community residence so you so we said that that was just because of state statute

well I think the definition was a state statute definition okay I think the use is tucked in here um and I can certainly pro see if that's consistent with the state requirements And there's a definition up in section 26 that lays it out and has extensive references to CGS on it. So, do you guys want to leave this? Is there anything you want me to do with this? Let's leave it for now. Okay. Cuz anything we changing it would be Okay. What's the next stop then?

Gas stations on page 28. So, is this updated to what we are what we just did? That I think that was my question. It's not um because I literally I mean it turns out that your gas stations were also permitted in C10. So, it's still a zone they're permitted in and they're going to be outlawed in this updated version, but we haven't gotten there yet. Okay. Um so, if you So, we so we still allow them as of as of today's date. you still allow them. If you want to outlaw them everywhere, then we don't need the section, right? And that I guess that was my question.

So, let's just delete because we're we don't we're not planning on allowing them anywhere. So, we can delete 712, I think. Um, no, cuz there's a lot of motor vehicle service stations in town. Well, but this is this is for establishment of new ones, right? We prohibited that. We prohibited gas stations. We prohibited motor vehicle service stations. Okay. Well, that's maybe we need to take out the gas station portion of that. Yeah. And leave the motor motor vehicle service piece of it. And then

so that's something that would be a a you know substantive change. Well, but you've already I mean we've already acted that's what you said. We still have some. Well, you still un when you deleted it from C30, I didn't also notice it was in C C10. So, as of today's date, it's still allow it is still a special permit use in the C10 zone because you you were intending to get rid of it. I don't think it's a substantive change to delete it as part of your phase one, but it will be because if somebody came in wanted to do it in the

if it between now and when we adopt this, it's still allowed. But I think when you adopt this, your intention always was to delete it as a use. So I think that it's allowed now, but when we adopt this new version at that point, you should just get rid of it in the C10 and just asking to maintain it. Francisco will have to use do go through it individually because this is still talking about the combination and which is you'll have to actually massage the whole thing. Let me go back to him and talk to him about how to adjust.

I guess the idea is if we're going to eliminate it com when we're doing just the update of the you know the technical stuff all of a sudden getting rid of it in another zone means that you know like when we're when we got to have a public hearing on just the updates and saying it's all technical. Well, that's not technical. We're now prohibiting something. So I think we should save it. I guess I'm just saying we should save it till the till phase two. that that's going to be two more years and your intention was to get rid of it entirely in town. It was really I only want to get rid of it on Hall's Road because that's what they were saying was going to be the big thing, right? It was C3. Well, I guess yeah, I'll defer to the people who, you know, if you wanted I'm just saying,

can we talk about that at our regular meeting because we still have some time. Let's let's bring this up at our regular meeting as an agenda item. Okay. Cuz I just don't want people to say like, "Oh, you said it was just technical and you got rid of something." Okay. I because we had a special because we had a special when we changed the reg you know reg before we had a special meeting just on that right and I you know I okay I I think I think it would be cleaner and more transparent yeah that's what I'm trying to I just don't want someone saying you said there was not any changes it was just technical and I think the likelihood you're going to see a new gas station in the C10 zone is remote yeah I mean there's only a couple commercial properties

I'm more the I'm more I'm more worried about Okay. I I understand your I understand your your your Well, C10 goes from what? Uh it's annoying. It's only like five streets. Yeah. There's not that much of it. So, okay. So, the so then the next red is So, this is technical in um in 5.2 of the updated regs. It still has a a special permit for gas station under C30 and C3S.

Yeah, we told him because when we started this process that that has to come out because we I I already notified him that you deleted that. Okay. So 7 12.2 2A A is in red. A, B, C, and D are all in red. That's all to do with the gas station. It's all gas station stuff, but that's okay. So the next would be adding Ledge Light Health District in 7.15.1.

Yeah. And I put, should we call them out as Ledge Light Health District or should we say um more generically the the local, you know, make it a generic, you know, when they change their name again? I agree. Yeah. So that it should say the local the local or regional health district, whatever it is, or you know, we have our own health district, which some towns do. We used to it was not that long ago. Mhm. So it was about 10 years ago. It was So that was just my Okay. I I don't think that was a change to the positive. I'm sure it was.

I can't believe I actually made that. Which is pretty scary. We didn't need to be our health. I got to be honest. We didn't need Ron Rose to be our health. Okay. So, what's our next stop here? 40. Page 40. Page 40. 21. [Music] This probably wasn't the blue. What are you seeing on 40? I don't see that. Not either. On page 40. Nothing.

Under under item three on there promotes the open space programs of the town plan. That's not page four. That's page 40 on mine, but I don't have it red right there. It's not red. 41. Which 925? I've got I've got Jim. That's why. Yeah. So what? So what? July. I've I do. I have the older one. I got the Okay. So it is what's page independent. It's 7.21.8 design standards of general application.

Okay. Okay. Paragraph B. Okay. Uh three. Okay. So why don't you read vision for open space promotes the open space programs of the town plan and this is in red of conservation and development. The Connecticut River Gateway Commission. the addition 2020 open space plan. Okay. As amended and plans of private organizations which are Okay. So this Yeah. So they just updated it. That's fine. Thank you. Do we want to say current open space? Yes.

Okay. I think. Okay. So, the next one I have updated see the right section when you finish. The next one I have is on page 51. I got 44. Yeah, I see 44. Ledge light health district 7.21.14 sewage disposal. Oh, I do have that. I missed it. Oh, yeah. Another reference to light say a blanket. Yeah. Why don't we just go back and tell him blanket take ledge light specifically out to global change. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I did have that in my head. Okay. So, he's got what do you got red there? Whatever your page you're on, we don't have 51. 51. Yes, we're on the same page. We're on the same page. 8.2.3 2.3 electric vehicle charging stations and B5. Yeah. What? Your 51. Okay. B5. I have on 52. That's on 52. Yeah.

So, the heading is is also in red. So, I put that's on 51 and 52. 55. Location. Electric vehicle charging station shall be incorporated into the overall site development as to not interfere with pedestrian or vehicular circulation. Yeah, we have that. So, um, so it's red, which means it's a modification. So, I think you just added it. Yeah, I think that was No, that would be new. Yeah. Okay. Under that's fine.

Under farm stand. I know it's not a change, but such produce that's pretty specific. Is it other What are other type of vegetables? Yeah, I guess that's produce, right? That's produce. Is there any products that farm stands sell that aren't produce? Eggs. They're produce. Yeah. Any processed honey? Produce. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to show excluding anybody though. We had an issue last time. We did. Yeah. Oh, yes. with the um your vegetables. The hydrangeanger galore one the definition of excluded vegetables. Yeah. Huh. Okay.

Accessory alcohol sales. [Music] 650. Yeah. Okay. H that's interesting. So, is this a way to stop the gas stations from selling alcohol? Because Dairy Mart, I think they still hold that license over there on the corner. Uh, scoop shop, right? That would be considered a grocery. It says limited department of consumer protection grocery store permit or restaurant permit types. Yeah. What they do, it's technically a grocery store permit that they have the bill beer sales. So that it qualifies as grocery store permit.

So what how would the gas station fall under grocery store permit? That's what that's what they get. I think that's an extra s if we're being picky. Permit type, not types or a restaurant permit type. No, I think that's type also refers to the grocery store. Restaurant. I think it's grocery store permit or restaurant permit types. full service. I think it's catching both grocery store permit and restaurant permit. So I think then afterwards type there should be a semicolon, not a comma. Okay. Semicolon. I I'll make sure we go semicolon.

Thank you. As long as we're being about next we're at 8:00. So number three E3. Oh, this was the issue that came up the other week. Bored 25%. Is that So it's the new No, that's that's current. That is No, it's red. So we're deleting that. What's the new? No, it it the current rig has that requirement already. So I'm not sure what move to here. Correct. Yeah. by earlier versions. It probably was somewhere else in the definition. Could be at this point in here.

Yeah. Our requirements right now are for this. So they may have rephrased it or repackaged it, but this is what we are. Okay. So ours already say 800 25%. Yes, absolutely they do. Yeah. And then the next page we have lead light lead light refer to again and we go to page 58. Uh 8.3.5 A and B. Oh yeah, we definitely want to tackle this one or I did. I don't know if you want to tackle it here. I think I parked Oh, that's right.

Okay. You want It's I think you parked it previously, but would you want to talk about it tonight? I mean, I think it's a good time to talk about I don't know if if now's the time or not, but I don't want to see this adapted because I think it's an unrealistic expectation. Um, because you can have a car, a sales car, you work for a business, the the car is registered to the business, so therefore it's considered a commercial vehicle cuz it has commercial plates. And then most pickup trucks easily You can have one of them. Yeah. But I couldn't park my truck and my car at my house at the same time because my truck's over 7,500 lb. He's just referring to the commercial vehicle. Commercial vehicle parking. Yeah. All lots. The street parking.

It says he's got two commercial vehicle. Yeah. So, like I have a car that is a commercially registered but it's a car. Whereas the Well, but then it wouldn't qualify as a commercial vehicle. Yes, it would because it's registered as a commercial. Commercial place, right? Yeah. It's considered a commercial vehicle. And then the other problem is is that does not exceed 7500 lb. Like just a new standard pickup truck almost weight and that's the empty weight um is almost 7,500 lb. My truck is 8,800 lb as it sits um without anything in it. Well, now this is saying off streetet parking.

Yep. Yeah. So I couldn't park my pickup and my car at my house at the same time. That's my concern. And this is new language as of right. Is there another do you know um Eric whether you can get a permit to do it by any other means or your own this come from somewhere did we have this or no I don't I we might actually have a provision for commercial vehicles but I think it just is a unnecessary let's look at 77c cuz that's what it says it comes from 77c chapter 7 accessory uses.

I'll read you what it says right now.

An accessory off streetet parking space, outdoors, or in a garage may be provided in any lot for only one commercial vehicle. And such vehicle shall not exceed 7,500 lb gross vehicle weight uh weight empty plus rated load capacity. Provided however that off- streetet parking spaces for more than one commercial vehicle and for greater ro vehicle rates rates rather may be provided on any lot containing one or more of the following. Uh permitted agricultural farming forestry uh truck or nursery gardening use permitting earth excavation removal deposit activity authorized under section 43. Um we don't use section 43 anymore since it's outdated but okay fine. Um, use of a facility operated by the town of Old Line, Regional School District number 18, state of Connecticut or federal government. Maintenance facility in support of multiple dwelling uh projects on a lot or in support of a special permit if authorized under such special permit. So that's that is what it says. Now

I just think this is really restrictive, but it's not different than what we're doing now. Okay. But it's red. So that just accept Yeah. What was What's the accept again? Okay, I'll read you the not not the stuff. Yeah, just the beginning. Let's go back and and read. Okay. Um, this would apply to

Yeah, that's not good. Provided, however, that offse parking space for more than one such commercial vehicle and for greater gross vehicle weights may be provided in any lack of hitting one or more of the following. A permitted agricultural, farming, forestry, truck, or nursery, gardening use. Yeah, but that's not accepted here. He's he's whittleled it down to he's got he's got rid of all the exceptions. I think we need to I think we need to take a good look at this. this I think the changes of the weight and all that have to come in the next phase but right now there's some there's some exceptions that I think but there there's an exception the second paragraph B

I'm reading this wrong is the exception if you're in a W20 C30 yeah but those are all commercial and industrial zones not residential zones but you can have residential uses in those zones happens in residential zones you want to have two or Three commercial vehicles parked in driveways in commercial zones in residential zones. I think that's why we had businesses that were parking their business trucks four and five and six. But the farm is the business and it is the residence. It's not a separate place. It's not a farm business because it says all lots. It's not it's not discriminary. It's saying

they're not. But I think I I mean I think to the point in residential it's like I understand like you don't want people bringing home the big trucks from wherever they work and that kind of stuff but people who have who have commercial plates on their personal pickup truck or or combination plates I think that those are something we need to think about cuz people do have those and a lot of people have I'm going to say categorically we do not approve of a okay we want to go back and put the exceptions in that previously all the exceptions. Yeah. Okay. So like um

well then maybe the cleanest way to do it if the point of of the first phase is just to to do a technical cleanup and the second phase to do the substantive then maybe the easiest way to do it is just revert to the original language full stop for right for phase one and say and mark this as another one that we 100% I think that's yeah cuz like a pick up. They tow a trailer. The trailer could be a commercial trailer. It's going to require a lot more work or we leave it the way it was for basic. Either way, we we'll deal with that later. For for tonight's purposes, we're just saying revert it back the way it was and we'll deal with it later.

Yeah. Just because there was all those exemptions, it's like you can't get rid of, you know, that would be a change to get rid of the exemptions. A lot of them are probably going to be covered under B, but to Jane's point, not at all. Yeah. And so it's too confusing to pull apart. Well, and we've we've also whittleled down our commercial space in town for these people to have places to go with their pickup truck. So, we'll revert. We know what we're doing with that one. Okay. So, next next will be at least on my version um page 61 there's something about section X and X, but that's just I'm trying to figure out where it's going to go. Oh, yeah. So, that's in red. That's not

fine. 61. Yeah, there's just two two that he made something red which I think is really just hiding in the the July version is already filled in at this point. Yeah. 64 page 64 9.7.3. Okay. Right of way. And that's in the right of way. 7.3. That's 9.7.3. Okay. That's That's my page 64 under the July res. Yeah. And it says right of way. It just added in right of way, which is I guess okay.

It's expensive. [Music] Okay. [Applause] 68. It's not on 62. So, please get what is it? Mike 3.1. What is it? 3.1 building a structure high school for school district. What page Julian? 68. Mine is on 68. This is 113. 1131. Okay.

Uh what's been the item? Fires, cubulous, towers, flag poles, outdoor lighting structures, and fixture tanks, chimneys, pen houses for mechanical equipment, ventilators, and other similar structure features occupying no more than 10% of the building area and are not intended for human occupancy. may be constructed, reconstructed, enlarged, extended, moved, or structurally altered to allow a reasonable and necessary height. This is in red. Now, exceeding the maximum height specified in section 11 uh.1 I will say you already do this generally, okay, everywhere. if you look, you know, where it comes from, but there's inserting it directly into your school district zone for reasons I'm not entirely sure. Um,

so it looks like the language he's he's changed two things at the very end as instead of having it as determined by the commission, he's put in more specific between necessary height and as determined by the commission, the added language is exceeding the maximum height specified section 11. Right. So, yep, that's good. And there was right before that too though there was another he changed um alter to a reasonable to it I allow to allow. Yeah. Yeah. That's not right. I'm looking at Oh, did he say allow? I know you that's not in red. That's interesting cuz it cuz allow isn't in my

No, it's a it's an addition. It's a new word. Yeah. But okay. I think it's fine. Yeah. Me, too. Thank you. Okay.

What's the next one you have, Mike? [Applause] Page 75. Cross it out. 12.13 exceptions, but there's no changes on that page. Let me see where the exception is. We asked him to cross out E. Cross out E. E. B is an A or B. So all I see in red is the the header for 12.1 12.13 exemptions. Yeah. Does it just go ABCD now? ABCDE E I have ABCDE E FG. Yeah.

I don't have Yeah. So he took out E. He took out the E from 6225. Okay. So we've lost one. So, we're down to G now. Okay. So, he did delete whatever was you asked me to delete. Yes. Oh, we Yeah, we asked him to. That might be on the deletion table. Mhm. Okay, then. [Applause] 1.39 standing. Yeah. A lot of this is going to be unchanged because a lot of these are very specific state requirements.

XYC is on 91. H sewage pumping station. Mhm. Y. And all it does is add the words pumping station. Pumping station. Yeah. Just it just gives it a title. Okay. Very important. Oh, because it was moved from 13.17. That's what the motion. Okay, I got 90 page 96, which is 13.2.5. [Music] Those are just cross references to

Yeah, these are all cross references. So, I think they're all fine. Okay. [Applause] 995 last one on the page. Yeah. Oh, it's another finding. So is required repairing a vegetation buffer that's already in the the 1328 that's in already. Well, let me take a look. Um, it says it's coming from 41012. So, let me go back to see what 4102 says. Now, these are gateway requirements, right? Yes, they have that. That's that's in there. That's already in there. Anything in the gateway is just

Yeah, that's that's in the gateway. He hasn't changed anything in gateway requirements. And um at the bottom of 99, he's just adding another finding that the commission is supposed to make and that's probably listed in the state statutes.

Okay. And this cross reference. [Music] So, so just just one thing I was looking at here and I don't know if we refer to conservation zone, but we we talk about the gateway zone and then we start just calling it the conservation zone. And I I was just looking for clarity if we should just keep calling it the gateway zone rather. Well, there are two different things. We talked about that. We talked about that before. Yeah. Because we decided that gateway was confusing because we have a gateway down the gateway to shore.

Y the gateway zone is specific to the regulations because there's other areas that are in the conservation zone that are not in the gateway zone. No, we he is defined conservation zone as being the gateway zone. It is it is the same. He Yeah, he is defined that as one endless. He is not distinguishing. Yeah. And I'm I'm Well, I'm asking because I I think just going back and forth. I think shake it should just be one name and I think it would be easier for people to say no it's the gateway regulation so so where so the the con there's no other conservation zone besides the gateway zone that's true Connecticut river gateway that's where we're because we've got a gateway committee we wouldn't have given

poss yes I understand that I'm specifically talking about the restricted rags we decided to tell when joined gateway and we set the gateway there was a minimum and then you could set it bigger. So the town of old line set the area that is affected by the gateway zone to be the conservation zone. Okay. So that was a a decision the town made. What area will be governed by a gateway? Got it. That's what I'm trying to figure out. It's defined here in 1321. I mean it said specifically those portions

yeah defined in 25102C in which the Connecticut River gateway commission is charged to protecting the natural and traditional riverway scene. So that that is your your definition of conservation zone is right here. It's the only definition you've got. And I guess I was just saying that for all those purposes when you say conservation zone, you think you could have other things. And I was just saying, you know, as a technical cleanup, should we just instead of calling it conservation zone, should we just call it the gateway zone? I'm just putting that out there just for you and we don't have to make a decision on it tonight, but I think I think it is confusing using that terminology,

you know, like say it's the gateway, you know, the gateway zoning. That's what I was wondering. Yeah. Why don't you just call it the gateway conservation zoning? That's what Yes. So that's my point because it almost sounds like it's an applying elsewhere in town. The shoreline gateway is under discretion now that So I think Yeah. And if we don't and if we wanted to put a conservation zone someplace else about this before and he was kind of grumpy about that, but I I think just adding gateway I think is it it I think it just cleans it up and makes it very

we have um on the bottom of page 104 a reference to chapter 34 of the town ordinances because they regulate how driveways attach to the town road. Yeah. Yep. And that's why that's there reference caught under the blanket. Yep. All right. And we are moving along. Yep. I think I'll be into definition. So we already did all of those. So Mike, what what's the next one in your I'm also 115. Haven't seen any. Okay. I got 118 15.314.

All right. We don't have that one. Okay. So, so it's extension of permits issued under repealed article 3 section F6. Yeah, there's some change in there that we don't have. We've got the paragraph, but we don't have any. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a paragraph. Can we read it to you? I think we have the unwritten request of the permit team. Yeah. Okay. But something about your paragraph is different than our paragraph. Well, I'll just read through it and you can tell me where we get the differences.

Okay. Upon written request by the permite, the zoning commission may after due notice and a public hearing extend or further extend for up to two years any permit that was in effect at the time of the request and that expanded the scope of a permit issued before March 7th, 1988 under former section F16. Any extension must comply with the same terms and conditions as the original permit except for its expiration date and except as the commission may choose to modify or add conditions to meet the requirements of this section. In deciding whether to grant an extension, the commission shall consider the standards in sections 1535A through 1535 C. So there's no change to the substance. It's just grammatical.

Yep. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Page 123. Yep. 163. Actually, there's another little one up in 1621 B. Yeah. 8 and 12. Yeah. Was the previous one the wrong number? Wait, why does it say 8.5 and then it has the line feet and then it says feet again? That just needs a there's a minor typo in there that there's a redundant tick for feet and the word feet. Okay, I'll point that out.

And 1622 accessibility requirements. That looks like it's coming right in the state. Yeah, that looks like you have the state requirement added in [Applause] 27

for a special permit just right under the header for a special permit application. Yep. Okay, that's works fine. There's and 129 169.

Yeah, that looks the same. Yeah, my look different than Mir's.

Is it supposed to say one one handicapped parking space? Yeah, it's just a duplicate. One one little under B. The first line. Yep. And that typo, dude. I will take that up. Um on the electric vehicle, this is the state statue or is this this is all local? This is all local.

You guys just adopted this. Not well complying with the standards of section 8. That's our section. That's your section. This is all your all your language. [Applause] So why is it red? Is it moved? It's moved. I think it's moved. I think it was now it's under All Street Park. Yeah.

All right. So it's 8:24. I would propose that we put a stop point at the end of section 18. Anybody have a problem or I'm ready to go. I mean, we want to stay, you know, focused. So, so that basically means we'll finish on page 44. Okay. [Applause] 132 17.4.3. 4.3 um height of freestanding signal height.

So that's the mod that's the modified language. Well, let me re go back to 1943 and I'll tell you give me a second. That's helpful, Eric. I appreciate it. No, that's that's why we're here. Hang on. Okay. Here is how the language reads today. Neither the top of any freestanding sign nor the top of any structure supporting any sign shall be higher than 10 feet above the grade measured vertically. Grades shall be measured from existing natural grade prior to such grading. Same thing we we kind of like the new language kind of fancy up.

That's why we're doing it. Okay. Um the portable signs that's a new portable only be permitted in the commercial districts. Is that all inclusive to include the WF20 district or is are we because the WF zone is defined differently. Um the existing REGG says portable sign shall be prohibited in all districts except as specifically permitted by this section 19 in commercial districts. So it is changing it. No, that's exactly what it says now. No, it doesn't. It says It doesn't say all districts. It just says shall only be permitted in commercial.

Shall only be What was the all district thing that you said? It's prohibited everywhere except the prohibited part. So you know you weren't Yeah, I know. I'm at it for sure. Um, so what's the change then? He's just pulling he just changed the line. He made it instead of talking about prohibitive, he just said what was where was it allowed? Where it was allowed. It's the positive rather heated up. Oh, should it be included in other commercial district though? No. No. Substances bad billing. 136 136 1751C. Oh, that's just a reference. Yep.

Okay. 142. [Applause] Yeah, those are all change again on 143.

Here's a there's another one at the bottom. 18.77 by the zoning enforcement officer. No. 18.7 18.7 18.7. We don't even have seven. Okay. All right. I stopped at 18.4. Yeah, same. Oh, I see a five, six, and seven. Oh, and only the there's only one little blur of red. That's so weird. A

What do you have in the original, Eric? Do you see what we're saying? In the 6225 version, there's It stops at 185, 186, and 187. Okay. What is your 1874? There isn't one. It stops at 184. Yeah. 18.4. That's it. Oh, well, we're working out. He's working out of the July one. We're working on June. Yeah. But in our June one, those were left out. Okay. Well, um, is there any red in any of them? I have black and white. So we're going to have to ask is there any red in any of those in which the anything after 185 six and seven

there's only one little bit of red in what is in mind 18 77 okay I built site plans okay so which is let me pull the original language and we'll compare and I guess Michael you can take a look along here well I guess nothing changed well he's saying this is this This language is different somehow. So when they pull the original language, they put addu site planned in. No, no, but what they were saying is this is different somehow. Something could add

something something got changed or added or whatever. So cuz it came from somewhere um 18 66. Okay. Um Okay. So, as built site plans in my current rags, um requirements by the zoning enforcement officer as a condition of the issuance of a certificate of zoning compliance for use, building or other structure or site development that has not been subject to commission approval of a special permit or site development plan under section 13. The zoning enforcement officer may require the owner to submit a zoning to submit to the zoning enforcement officer a copy of the site plan element prepared by a land surveyor licensed to practice in the state of Connecticut showing the location of improvements as built in accordance with a survey of class A2 accuracy as specified in section 2341. and if so required, the owner shall file a copy of such as built plan in the office of the zoning enforcement officer. If such as built plan depicts substantial departures from the plan approved accordance with section 13, the zoning enforcement officer may in addition to other remedies require that an asbuilt plan be filed with the town clerk. And you have nothing of that any anywhere.

No down there. It's actually that you don't do that. It's by the zoning commission plan. There's a separate zoning commission requirement which is B. But he he truncated your authority to say that you didn't you it says um prepared by a landscape rare license to practice uh in the state of Connecticut showing the location of improvement at built. That's that's that paragraph ends. Okay. So, so the issue regarding departures from the approved plan um is not discussed in here. He's taking it out. Do you want me to have them add it back in or does it matter? Does it matter to anybody?

If no one cares, I'm just going to leave it. Let's Let's leave it. Okay. The time limits that we That's all that's the only change was what he just read, right? Yes. Okay, Eric, is this time limit section?

Let me go back and take a look at what's Okay, time limits. Any zoning permit issued under these regulations shall expire 12 months from the date of issuance unless a valid building permit uh is in effect for the use construction and site development authorized by the zoning permit is in effect. Further, any certificate of zoning compliance may be issued for a specified time period. We are authorized by these regulations where we're appropriate to the nature of a particular use. Yep, that's exactly what's written here now. Okay. Um but so in layman's terms, any approval is on a I thought it was a 24-month, but it's a 12 month.

It says 12 months. So you approved project today. If it doesn't start in 12 months, it's now has to reapply. Well, only if I've issued a zoning permit for it. So, yeah, if someone comes in for a building permit and they don't start for 12 months and I signed off on it, they have to reapply. Okay. But not for like a site development plan. No, this Okay, I'm just making sure I'm understand. Okay. Again, this is specific to things that you can approve, administrative. Bottom line is when someone comes in for a building permit now I check off the zoning box saying okay y if they don't start the building permit within 12 months they have to come back and restart I got you I I was under the impression that this could possibly apply to site

no that that's five years they have five years to start two years wellakes by state all my army corpore D permits are always five years so five years okay and with a fiveyear extension so if you haven't started in 10 Then yeah, you're lucky unless you got a co approval. Well, that's fine. But we're talking about going forward. We're going to leave it at that. Okay, that brings us to 144, I think, right? Yeah. Where we were going to stop. Where we were going to stop.

Question here for folks. I don't know how much more there is to do on this. Um, do we we had previously talked about the October 20th date? At the moment, I have not set a meeting for that date because we were going to re-evaluate at the end of tonight to see whether we needed that date. Um, I can set that time. Uh, however, I'm going to need to probably get space across the street because the rooms in here are going to be locked because of early voting. So, if you want me to get a room at the middle school or something, I can do that. Um, just that's that's what we're going to be looking at for October 20th. We need to do this special meeting. Then is there enough material so that we could do this at the end of the regular meeting?

We still have all that part stuff. Well, well, why don't we finish this up at the end of our meeting this month and then probably establish a special meeting early in November to start working on parking lot. not things that we've previously parked and set aside and I don't know if you can but if it was the distinction between and maybe Mike I know a lot you parked a lot I parked some stuff too but the distinction between we were saying some stuff was going to be parked because you're going to do it in phase two but some stuff

we need to make well let me see what I can pull out on that it may be that I'm just going to give you the list of parked items and we're going We need to figure that out cuz I I'm not sure I I broke it out that finally. You know, I started I started doing it like that, but there's two reason there's two reasons we we did it. Some things we needed to reook at cuz we you know, the owners of the park stuff. Hopefully, you can identify who parked it. Oh, I mean, it's pretty much just Can you identify who parked something? I think we all had a few things. My parking lot's full. very commercial. And just in case people, this is previously listed as I have that there. Oh, there's my parking list. Okay.

Jeez. Be here for a week. [Music] Um, sorry. So, our next meeting is next is Monday the 13th. It's actually the 14th because it's Columbus Day, whatever you want to call that day. Now, Tuesday. Um, it's the Tuesday, right? Okay. Um, and so I mean, do we want to I I hear what you're saying. At this point, we're not expecting the agenda to be What is on the agenda? Okay. The the the item that is likely to be potentially controversial. It's the only item that's really on the agenda for any discussion is the cemetery. Coming back to to basically add in blasting when you previously prohibited it. Oh, that's the golf course.

That's the golf. Yeah. Yes. The golf course. Country club. where they said they weren't going to blast to say, "Yeah, well, we got to blast." Well, that's that's again you your special permit had specifically prohibited blasting. They are now saying that they need to go back and undo that condition. They were going to have me try and do it. I said, "Look, you guys put it in a specific condition. I'm not going to be able to to modify that." Um, they are planning to have a lasting expert, whatever that is, come in and talk to you for 15 minutes about that.

That's going to be longer than 15 minutes. Well, that's I I I don't know what the neighbors or anybody else has to say about that. Um, but that is your only public hearing. Um, and that's pretty much where we are as far as, you know, big agenda items to my knowledge. You may get an informal uh person coming in asking you informally about something. I don't expect that to take too too long. And that's pretty much all we have for for business. Do you want to lead us on to what the informal thing possibly could? I would except I totally space it right now. So I can't give you an answer. I'm sorry. That's fair. Um three hours ago I could have told you unfortunately it just not came to mind. Can we put it on the agenda that we might work on this stuff?

Well, you can put it in. Yeah, we get in if we don't have time or it's too late. We'll just And then do we want to just I guess my point is just to keep the momentum going so it doesn't stretch out have such long periods in between these meetings. Do we want to just keep the 20th on our schedules and we can revisit on the 14th whether or not we need it? I'm okay. I think it would be easier to cancel the 20th and we schedule a special meeting if we were could I get this draft put it up by Martha's office for the 20th because people are up here voting so I get that. So, we can't be up here. But

I can ask if we can use Martha's office. I I don't know how thrilled she'll be. Well, I'm just throwing that out. Well, she's got that nice desk. I mean, this there's a lot of people for that test, though. Well, I think there's What about the at the center? What about the Oh, the new What about the center school? That's where like the board of ed meets a lot of times in the center. In the center school that Michelle Hayes, correctly below us here, is the person who schedules meetings. I will ask Michelle Hayes what's available and and she Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You said the middle school and just the center school like that front office room is just more conducive right across the street. Okay. Yeah, that's a really good idea. Yeah. And if the OC is open, that's going to be extra space, too.

Okay. I will talk to her tomorrow about what is available. We can get center school. We will do center school. Again, I don't know what's available, what isn't available, but I will always talk to her about what our choices are. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you for all your help here. Yeah, that's good. That's what we're here for. Good. So, wait. How much do we have left? In my parking lot. Did you download that? Oh, you go through your parking lot. I was doing identify what probably is phase two. Yes. Right now that'll well from an email. Yeah. I should that'll help.

Yeah. When I emailed that list out, I specifically said we need to get resolution on this stuff. Well, a lot of it was introduction and new definitions. Yeah, it was introduction and definitions that had anything to do with marine. No, not just marine commercial too and yach club trailers vehicles. We don't one one at a time. One at a time, folks. Tape can't possibly help cuz we're doing all at once. So, 40.

So Eric, you we had talked also about potentially creating on the website a special subsection of the zoning rag rewrite as we've seen other towns. It's already there. It is already there. Okay. Go look on the on the page there. It's already there. Awesome. Thank you for setting that up. So what's in that since I clearly missed it? No. Well, we can go pull it up now and take a look. Um is there like other committees? Yes. you want to do you have access to our web page by the way which is the land use web page I could punch it up

I think that social media should be considered for um our meetings letting people know like on the town calendar like I mean they're what's her um what's the secretary's name downstairs um Katie Katie she's always like well they have to go to the town website they have to go to the town website but like realistically there's a lot of the population who just doesn't go to a town website So I don't know if us having our a Facebook page or having a town of old line Facebook page actively put meeting schedules up so the community knows that there's meetings. What's the state requirement? State doesn't talk about I mean the state requirement is it has to be here. Okay. Anything beyond that you can do whatever

postings there's no requirement on postings where it has to be posted well the postings are you have to put it on your town website on the town website but if you want to put it anywhere else you can always put it someplace else too out front yeah people that are coming here these are changes I agree with with Michael that we should be a little more proactive in just pushing out information about thing it's a public meeting and just saying the town website. That means you have to know to go be checking the town website to be looking for something as opposed to that's a passive information source as opposed to pushing things out.

The definition that's what I think we're just kind of bringing it up. I don't know. Well, you can the Facebook page that the town of Lion has right now already posts other things for other committees. We just don't volunteer our information on there. But this is stuff that affects a lot of business owners and a lot of people with new definitions being introduced. They're they're we're missing these people need to know that there's going to be changes. Oh, right. And so, and that's kind of what that But let's make sure that new definitions before you get everybody going. I'm not saying to get everybody going,

but I'm just saying that he's saying but he's saying other other commissions are having this information put out. So, we just need What is the process that there has to be? Who knows the Facebook page? But it is we tell Katie and then the chair tells Katie and then she posts it. That's that's the process. Okay. So then what maybe we need to make almost as a standing aspect of these meetings is okay what is the next thing that needs to go out? What what do we need to communicate out whether it be agenda October 20th meeting? I know but like we actively tell Paul say or it goes into our notes. Okay. This information needs to be communicated to Katie so she can put it out on the social town social media.

I mean I I agree with it for Yeah. I mean that you should just put there's no comment section on there or anything. It's not like people can comment and do the Facebook drama. Yeah. No, it's just No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying we but we don't want to say that there's a lot of things that are being changed when they're not necessarily a You might disagree with them and we may change them in phase two. So, Eric, that was the whole point also of the memo that we all signed off on was to start pushing that out to the town. So, how what was that was put on the website? Yeah. Yeah. And on the website and the the town website on the first page of the town website says go look here,

right? the it lives sort of on the on the land use page. Yeah. upper left corner there is now a thing that says you know go look and it has both your timeline it has the memo it has the FHI proposal and it has this version of the regulation right that's awesome so so then we sent it we pushed it to the other commission members and so there had been some discussion that we then also used that to push that in the public Martha was going to mention it in her newsletter yes but she hasn't No, I'm just I read it and I haven't seen it. I'll be determined to make sure she does.

And so again, the New London Day is going to have an article about it in the next few day and a little expert in the back page on Tuesday. So So this you know maybe not maybe not that whole thing but again the whole point of that was to start having the language to be pushing this out. So I don't want the website is an awesome start to put things and to force us to even develop it but now we need to take the next step of like okay but how do we push it out here is just posted coffee. No I think that makes sense too. So maybe we can at the public meeting for the next meeting on Tuesday that should be an agenda item. Mhm.

Can I also ask, is there any reason we can't have a zoning map of a map of the zones in in our regulations? There is. It is part of the regulations. We you still have one in these ones. You mean in this in this text? Technically, the zoning map is part of the zoning regulations by definition. That's the only place it lives in the zoning regulations. Actual map. Is he going to put it in there though? Yeah. But it's a full size map. I mean, it's on the wall over there. I know it's in the wall over there. If you try to squeeze it down to a letter size, it's useless. You can't Well, I mean, that's why I'm asking. I don't know how many times I've looked and it goes, "Where is that zone? Can we shrink it up? Can we have a map?" You can't shrink it up.

You can't shrink it. You can put it on the website. You should be able to do it. And the GIS map is where that lives on a regular basis. So, you go to the GIS and toggle the uh the zoning map. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So could you so could we put a QR code in the you know is part of an appendix so that you could have a QR code to go to the zone map so you have to go to a place where it would take you to the comes in a certain format so you can zoom into a map. It can't it's got to be a certain kind of um code that you have. So

you just can't think you put a map on because all you'll get is pixels as you're trying to blow it up. Oh, but yeah, but if but if we have it, but if he but if he has it online, we can as an amendment put a QR code. Here's a here's your link to your zoning map. That would be the right an interactive map. Yeah. Just like any other Google or what have you. G that's the that's the only interactive map we have at the beginning. I'm not going to create a whole separate Oh, no. Yeah. So,

I totally agree. I don't want to talk over. Um, while you're in the restroom, we were talking about Katie um posting at least our agendas or some information about our um monthly meetings on the Facebook page. Um, so I don't know if you comment on it cuz you were out of Yeah. But it has to come from you. They want you to do it all. Oh, that's fine. Well, that you didn't say that. Disgusting. So, you want me to talk? Well, no. Yeah. So like the chair has to be this and I only know this because we ran into the harbor management when we tried to start our own page. Okay. She's like you can't have your own page. You have to use the town's page. Um and which we understand. But so you just say so does she just put a link to the agenda that's on the website?

I mean I would say like a picture of it, you know, not a link but like so actually physically she puts a she puts a picture. No, we actually started a harbor man harbor master page which is separate. So we were able to get our information out but it's through a a state harbor master not. She makes a JPEG. You have to do a JPEG of it then. Well, whatever she does for the other commissions. Let's just be He said she didn't. He said she No. No. No. No. You There's other like the parks and wreck and other Yeah. posts on the Town of Old Facebook page are promoted. Yeah. Only if the chair asks them to. I know. And and what I'm saying is with the agendas, they put the agenda. No, that they should be. No, they absolutely.

I hear what you're saying, Denise. Yes. Uh usually what happens is you say, "Hey, there's a there's a meeting of planning and zoning and then and then in the Facebook page and then you have a link and I click on the link and go to the website." That's option two. Yes. But that's not even done at all. I mean that's not even that extra. So what is another change it to a JPEG because you can't put a you can't put a PDF on Facebook. It's more about just getting information. Is it like a reminder to check and just link the apps and they're saying that people don't go to the town website? Okay. They go to the Facebook page.

Yeah. Like America 250 committee is seeking volunteers. That's an example, right? So, you know, the town of Old is reoing the zoning regulations. Pay attention. You know, like something like Yeah, you could do that with the length of the letter. um the the pollen pollinate old mine is proud to support building resilient landscapes like so there's other people that are asking for this information to be disseminated to the community. I'm just saying to just give it to her in a format that's ready for her to just do it. That's what it sounds like. Correct. Like old line fire department um old line emergency management. She's sharing.

How about this? How about we all take the next few days to kind of think about what this could look like and and then like as you said, we're going to have this as an agenda item and just come up with a plan and decide. Yeah. And then here's a examples reminder WCPA beach. We get we get that's what I'm saying. So let's I'm not No, it's super exciting. But I'm just saying because they're getting tired. I'm getting tired.

I'm ready to go. I say just from a just from a consistency management thing, there should be one authoritative source and all the satellites should point back to it so we don't get so document and we'll come up with how it is we're going to do it. And if you guys know the chairs of the other commissions and ask them how they do it, that's helpful to know. I like the blue. Yeah, but the town seal is nice. That's the one that you really want. Looks efficient. Yeah. No, it has to come from the town seal. But I'm just saying that that kind of a photo like all zoning commission with that you know correct one sentence regulations click here. Yeah. And once we create a template

it'll be super Yeah. super easy for you Paul to just update it and push it back out to her. You don't even have to do that. You just tell her. Well, we'll work through Craig or work through whoever on Even better. You don't want me playing with the be surprised what kind of links may show up on that reading. Are we interviewing for not looking at director which ends up having three miles. So that's what that's a lot to ask for everybody.

Okay. Can I make a motion that we uh motion? Is there a motion to adjourn? There is by Jane Marsh and seconded by Michael by Mary Joe. All in favor? Good night. Thank you everyone. So it's the 14th. Regular meeting is the 14th at 6:30. Thanks. Okay. It's still there.