Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

We're going to use the mics, okay.

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the regularly scheduled July meeting of the Online Zoning Commission, today being July 13th. Let me see, we have a full complement at the table here. We have Mary Jo Nozel. Oh, we have, right. So Mary Gardner, I think, is the one who's up, I think. Michael was on the last.

Michael was on the last one. So either Jim Cordo or Murray Gardner.

Do we have any idea?

I'm guessing it's probably Jim. Okay.

Jim, you will serve as a member tonight? Have voting rights? Okay. Well, actually, no, we have our new member here. Member. Have you been sworn in by now? I was just sworn in. You were just sworn in. Okay. Welcome.

Oh, finally.

All right, so let me begin again. We now have five full-time members here in attendance this evening. We have our newest member, Bonnie Rehm-Schneider, Mary Jo Nozel. We have alternate Jim Porto. We have Denise Savigneault, full-time member. Our scribe, Amy Huat. Secretary Jane Marsh, Alternate Mary Gardner, and Michael Barnes, our Land Use Coordinator, Eric Knapp, and myself, Paul Orzel. So at this time, Bonnie, welcome to the O-Lime Zoning Commission, and great way to get your feet wet. Welcome.

Thank you. Okay.

All right. Before we begin this, is there anyone in the audience that has any public comment on any of the items on the agenda tonight? Okay, then we'll move into the item three, phase two zoning regulations rewrite and I'm going to have I'll turn this over to Vice Chair Denise for

All right, thanks. So first item is update from the consultant staff on the rewrite drafts. Do we have anything that we need to talk about per se?

Obviously, Francisco's not here this evening. We did take everything that came in from the meeting of the various boards and commissions and transmit that to him. He is working on that. Our next meeting is on the 29th, our next public session, that is. And he did, as you saw, give us publication materials to get out there and get... into the public's hands we've been trying to do that but i have no new regulations or anything to distribute this year okay thanks and survey just a quick update on the survey i knew we were just over 600 but at this point we're just sort of getting trickles it was a 564 a week or so ago so we're getting probably five comments a day which is not great but it's still something so we're at this point scheduled to leave it open for the end of july okay thanks so till the end of july

On the website and other communications, you know, we have the website up. We have the notice of the community workshop that's going to be July 29th. That's on the website now, and it's on the front page of the town website. And when you click on anything zoning, the survey comes up and the zoning rewrite stump comes up, so you get sent to that. So that's good. Thank you. And unless anybody has any questions about either the survey or website, any of the commission members. All right. And then I just, it looks like it's long because it's a list, but I just wanted to make sure everybody understood the community outreach workshops we were having. We had the first one June 4th on the environment. We've had a recap on that. And, you know, getting that information. And as Eric mentioned, the consultants now taking that information and working on that. The next meeting will be July 29th. That is for, as a community workshop, that's for the general public. And that one will focus on housing. And that's going to be 630 to 830 here. So if you're interested in, you know, the big housing issue, and there's a lot to talk about with housing, come to that. And then September 26th on commercial zones. We haven't set a date for that yet, Eric. Do we want to look at some dates or do we want to wait until the 29th? What do you want to handle in terms of that? I think we need to be, I think it's good we had set the meeting for the other one ahead of time and I wasn't sure.

I'm comfortable setting that date. Obviously more urgently is the housing focus group date for August that we're going to get to a little bit later. But if you want to try and pick a date in September, that's probably a good thing to do. I think we were talking about late September. Is that correct? I think you were looking at like mid to late September. So let's see what we're looking at here. Let's see. Looks like the week of the 21st is relatively open for meetings because My meetings are all basically the week before that, the 14th through the 18th. So I'm not sure if anybody else has any issues regarding 21st to 25th.

I actually am going to be at a conference on the 3rd through the 24th.

Okay, well.

And the 21st is Yom Kippur. That's not a great time for me. And then you have a wetlands meeting on the 22nd, right?

That's the 4th Tuesday. Okay. Going to go to the following week there? Yeah.

So the 28th, 29th, 30th, anyone have any confines? Those are the fifth.

So sometimes the fifth week might be better, but I'm not going to be around.

Oh, you're not going to be around? I'm gone on the 16th and not back to the first.

Ah, so you guys are alternates.

We're trying to get as many people as possible, so that's why we're trying to get this as far in advance as possible. 14th, 15th, 14th, sorry, 15th. 14th is the regular meeting.

But when are you done?

I'm done going 16th through the 1st.

Could we do the 15th?

Yeah, I can type a rollout.

16th? You said you're going the 16th. That's right.

Either that or we'd have to go to October 15th. 15th? I mean, I can do the 15th. It'll just be a zoning kind of way. It'll be better. Is it 15th? He says 15th is okay with him. Is everybody okay with 15th?

I am.

I mean, it's September 15th. September 15th. I will be there. Okay, then let's do it. So we'll set that. So as long as we have to check with our consultant as well, we're tentatively setting that for September 15th. And that will be a community workshop to get public input on, and that will be on commercial zones and things like parking and signage and anything in that kind of realm.

We make sure... Gomez is available. Let me make sure we have a room. So we'll put it for that date. If we can't do it that date, I will let everybody know.

Okay. Intentively set. And so then just quickly, the focus groups, we had a good meeting on the focus groups, June 26th, which was on the environment. And the focus groups are meeting with the other town boards and possibly other agencies, such as, let's say, if we're talking about land trusts, I mean, open space environment, we could be asking the land trust to come in. And one of the things we wanted to stress with the focus group meetings is that they're not one and done. Once we get feedback from our consultants and whatever, we want to keep having a dialogue with them. And indeed, at our September, whatever the meeting date is for our regular September 14th, for our regular September meeting, we're going to be having the Flood and Erosion Control Board come in to talk to us because they had some very specific things and actually provided us with language that we want to have a give and take with them on. So we had that and we're looking at setting a date for the housing focus group and that's kind of following again, the housing meeting. So we think we wanted to do that probably maybe like two weeks or so after that. So sometime in August, which I know was really terrible for everybody, but from a housing perspective,

It is what it is.

Maybe the week of, well, we don't have a regular meeting scheduled, but are people around on the 10th? That's our regular, that would be our meeting if we had a meeting.

Yeah, I'm here.

Do we want to do that? Okay, so guess what? Your September 10th is now filled up. August 10th. I mean, August 10th, sorry, oh God, August 10th. Yes. Keep me on track, people. And then I just put on it. So that's what we need to do. And then the other was just next steps. And that is there anything else that we needed to do, Eric, in terms of are we on track with the consultant? You said everything.

Yeah. At the moment, he has what we've already given him. We're going to be generating the material to work with him on. And again, he is supposed to be here. on the 29th with his crew like he was last time. I will confirm now River Cog was obviously not able to make it to our first focus group meeting, but they said they were willing to help out for our next focus group meeting. So I will see if River Cog is available August 10th, because obviously it would be good to have them as facilitating if that's possible. So I will reach out to River Cog and see what their availability is. And particularly since it's on housing, I think that would be really helpful if they could be there. Because obviously that ties into their whole issue with the housing department. project that they're working on.

That's all I've got.

Okay. Okay. 25-1.

Yeah, Public Act 25-10. And that's the housing update. And there's two things on that. Obviously, the town appoints folks to the committees at River Cog. And Mike Fogliano was the appointment to Cog, along with Sheila Riffle, who's on the affordable housing. She is ultimate. So there will need to be another appointment there. So I just wanted to give that update. And also attached to your agenda was the minutes of the old line housing strategic planning committee. but it also includes updates on River Clog that Mike Pogliano provided at that time. So take a look at that. The important thing to know that he reported to us was that River Clog is in the process of getting data. So they're collecting data and that includes looking at mapping and those types of things. They will be using that data to then work on the housing growth plan that is required under Public Act 25-1. What they will do is they're going to get the data, then they're going to provide it to us to look at so that before they start doing modeling and where they should go with it, they want to make sure the data that is there is correct. So we'll have a chance. So they're in the process. They're supposed to be sending us the data, and so we just need to make sure then that folks are looking at it, you know, and I don't know, does that come to you, Eric?

I suspect it will come to me. It may also come to Martha. I know some towns have already been receiving this. Old Saybrook's already got theirs. They're doing it, obviously, town by town, so...

We haven't, you know, I don't think we had received it yet.

My knowledge, we have not received it. Okay, so. The places it would usually show up, either me or Martha, have not received it. So if it shows up anywhere else, I'll see if I can track it.

And that's where, as you know, Martha appointed. So these two things kind of go together. The old line housing strategy, planning, can't even talk. Old line housing strategic planning steering committee. There's a name for you. includes two zoning members, two planning members, and two affordable housing members. Mike was obviously appointed to that, and again, we'll have to touch base with Martha, and I think she works with Paul in terms of who's going to be on that. I'm also appointed to that, and that steering committee will be looking at the data, but I really think it should be looked at by the whole commission in terms of you know, the mapping and whatever. So I, you know, and one of the jobs that is that the strategic planning steering committee is charged with this information is coming in. It will come to us. Our role is to bring it back to our full commission. So I will make sure I'll work with Eric and make sure that happens.

I know the planning commission is also anxiously waiting for that data because they want to see how that also influences the POCD and whether there's anything in the POCD that that would need to be amended based on whatever that data is going to show.

So I really encourage folks to look at the minutes of the housing because, like I said, it includes Mike's report from that, from River Cog, It kind of talks about our charge a little bit. And, you know, the things that we're looking at, obviously, I'm reporting back to them what we're doing on the zoning rewrite. So you can also, you know, it's also a running record of what we're doing on the zoning rewrite for everyone. So please make sure you take a look at those. It's not just another committee meeting. It really is this, you know, parallel track of our zoning rewrite and Public Act 25-1 and the housing. We've adopted some regulations. We may be updating those or whatever as we go forward. But the other big thing that River Cog is working on is a housing growth plan. And the final outcome of that will be, do we adopt what River Cog has prepared with our input? It's not without the town's input. But do we adopt that or do we do adopt our own housing plan. And that's where it will be easier if they do it for us, as long as the data is right and the information is right and they're taking the input from us and it's really our plan. And I think that really goes to how engaged we are with them. So, for example, they do the natural hazard mitigation plans for all the towns. They did that with our emergency operations team. as well as other, like Eric and everybody else who works on those types of things. And so that's what we just need to make sure that they're not just writing a plan that's generic and fits everybody, but it's actually a plan that we agree with. So that's kind of where we're going. At a minimum, they're gonna be providing us all the data so that we can use that to help write the plan. Once the housing growth plan, then if we adopt something different and decide to do it on our own, they will still have to review it for compliance with Public Act 25-1 as well as probably OPM. I'm not sure. I think it's OPM at the state that's going to be looking at these as well. So that's kind of the update on those two things. So I tried to make sure people understood there's a zoning rewrite, and that's why it looks like it's really long on our agenda. but also there's Public Act 25-1 running on parallel tracks. And it's confusing to everybody, but we're trying to stay on top of it.

So is it the Planning Commission that does the housing growth plan or the Zoning Commission that does it?

So it's going to be, it doesn't say which one. I thought it said zoning for some reason. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know if the Public Act said, because they've, It might say planning, actually. I'll have to look at it.

I'll go back. I don't want to give you the answer off the top of my head because I really don't know off the top of my head.

For some reason, I think I was looking at it to try to figure it out, and I thought it ended up saying zoning.

Okay.

That's one of the – and just to let you know, the old Lime Housing Strategic Planning Steering Committee is to foster communications between the three committees and first. So it's not to make decisions. The decisions rest with the individual commissions. This committee is to foster communications. Hey, we're thinking about this. Are you guys thinking about this? We bring it back. Hey, planning's thinking of this. Does this make sense from a zoning perspective? So it's to foster the dialogue and not to, you know, like, it doesn't mean one way or the other. It's also to make sure any communications go into the town. We all, like, if somebody gets something from COG and it didn't get to, all three commissions will get everything. That's the whole idea. So hopefully that will work. That's the intent. And I'm finished, I think, unless anybody has any more questions.

So the replacement for Mike on the River Cog.

Because that can be any of the commissions. So they have two committees on River Cog. They have a planning committee, and they have the housing. So planning was appointed, and that was, it's Howard, and I'm trying to think of the other guy's name.

I just saw it this morning.

Anyway, There's two people from planning and Martha appoints those. So it will be, or I'm not sure if it's Martha or the Board of Selectmen, but they appoint those. So we need to make sure that they appoint a new person to River Cog. That said, I know that all of the River Cog meetings are open and they're on Zoom. And so you can attend those. And I can send that link out to everybody if you're interested, or I'll send it to Eric and make sure that everybody gets that. I think Eric probably has it. But make sure everybody has that link so that you can... Well, you know, with the housing committee at River Cog, anybody can do that and look at that.

Are they during the day?

They are during the day, yeah. I know. And I know Sheila is attending, and since I'm on this housing steering committee, I'm going to be looking at that, but it all depends, you know, I don't know, we don't know who Martha may appoint, and it may be a point, you know, Sheila may move up, and then they'll have somebody else, you know, on the house, so just to be cognizant of that, I'm sure she'll be contacting Paul for recommendations, and probably the other, because as I said, there's affordable housing, there's zoning, and there's planning, although planning, I think she feels is represented on the planning, so that's where we are.

Thanks, James.

Thanks, Denise.

Okay. Moving on.

We have two public hearings this evening. The 6th Lieutenant River Lane, the special Prince of Canton application. I would like to take a motion that we move that to our first item and Our second item, the sewer laid down area would be second because I don't think it's gonna take us very long to go through that. And I would not wanna hang on to those folks here while we do that. So I'll take a motion that we... Okay, good, okay. So, second.

Okay. This is a continuous of the public hearing from last time? No, we never started it. Okay.

The meeting last time, you said. Okay, we just said it. Okay. You just said it, and you also kind of informally committed to her that she wouldn't have to sit behind the sewers.

We're trying to honor that commitment. So, I'm assuming that there's no opposition to making item B, item A, and item A, item B. Okay, good. So then 6th Lieutenant River, special permit application. Folks can please come forward. And Madam Secretary is...

I'm going to read the legal notice for both of them.

For both? Both public hearings. Okay.

Zoning Commission of the Town of Old Lyme will hold a public hearing at a regular meeting on Monday, July 13th, 2026 at 6.30 p.m. at Memorial Town Hall in the Meeting Hall, 52 Lyme Street, Old Lyme, Connecticut. to consider and hear comments on the following. Sixth Lieutenant River Lane special permit with CAM application, two, four renovations in addition to an existing single family residence, including expansion of the second floor primary bedroom, kitchen and interior renovations, reconstruction of the mudroom laundry area with a footprint expansion and associated roof modifications within the gateway zone Jillian and Daniel Adams Jr. applicants. The second one is 224 Shore Road and 250 Shore Road application for an amendment to the existing special permit to allow a temporary offsite lay down and staging area for construction materials, equipment, and piping associated with the Beach Association Sewer Project. Old Colony Beach Association, Old Lime Shores Beach Association, Miami Beach Association applicants. At this hearing, members of the public shall have the opportunity to appear and be heard. Copies of the full applications are available for public inspection at the Old Lyme Town Clerk's Office during regular business hours. So that is the meeting.

Okay.

Thank you. Okay, so the applicants, 6th Lieutenant River Lane. Oh, oh.

So we have some exhibits. Exhibit A is the special permit application. Exhibit B is CAM application. Exhibit C is the statement of use. Exhibit D, house renovation and additions. Exhibit E is five photos. Exhibit F is improvement location survey. Exhibit G are additional photos. Exhibit H is the certification of mailings. And Exhibit I is Letter from Connecticut River Gateway, dated 7-7-26.

And I think I've got a lot of notes here. Hand those down. These down.

Do you need one? Yeah, I'm good.

more down there? No, let's get one more. One more. Okay. When you spread them out, it takes up a lot of room. Thank you. Okay. Now they can go.

Okay. I'm Brooke Gertie and I'm here with Dan and Jillian Adams. And thank you for letting us go. It's the change of order. Have you reviewed the drawings? Like, do you get them on email and you. No, we haven't. No. Okay. Dan and Jillian are the owners of Sixth Lieutenant River Lane. It's an old house built in 1925, and it's really quite lovely. And as a well-designed house of any period is, it's still got so many nice things about it, but it did have a need for a larger third bedroom. And there was a small bedroom above the kitchen that they wanted to turn into the primary suite. And so what we ended up doing, trying to be sensitive to a gateway and the view from the Lieutenant River was put a new bedroom above an existing dining room. And that way we were able to not make the building any wider, any taller, any deeper. And there was a flat area over that area. So we were able to kind of make a roof that's not quite as high as the highest and have a nice hierarchy of forms. So we went to Gateway and they approved it. And the house, the reason that we're here, I think it's just because of the size of the house was just slightly over what's allowed in the Gateway zone. So we had to go to them and come here. A few things about the property is that the waterfront is actually owned by the Old Lyme Land Trust. And they have an easement to get to an existing dock. But because we were able to put most of the additions on the second floor, we're able to keep the driveway, keep the Grading the same. There's beautiful mature trees and shrubs. We can keep all of those. We're not cutting down any trees. So I think that made Gateway very happy. So I can take you through the drawings. I don't know. Would that be helpful?

Yes, hurry.

So starting with the site plan on this side is the Lieutenant River over on my right. And you can see there's quite a steep bank going down to it. It's in that area is heavily vegetated. So any runoff coming down here is slowed down and absorbed By that, before it gets to the old lime land trust property, here's the existing house. The shading is on the non-water side. We are proposing here, making the laundry room slightly larger to fit more modern day lifestyle. And other than that, the site remains the same. So are the floor plans helpful or is just the exterior more helpful?

Exterior grounds. This is the best one right here.

Yeah. So I had a before and after for Gateway, which I think really helped them just drawing over the existing photo.

This top drawing is the existing

Street side away from the lieutenant river, and that is the you know original house with this lovely curve and front door, this is the proposed new laundry mud room that has the same. The side of the House. This is the north side so here's the existing Ridge our new Ridge. an existing ridge of a porch that we're proposing to make pantry, a porch, and then here's the roof of the new bedroom laundry.

And on the water side, here, this highest point is existing.

Here's our new bedroom right here.

So the roof ridge is pretty much the top of this point.

It's a little bit lower. It's like a foot lower.

How low is that?

I think with the perspective, it would look like that. And then this roof line is pretty much the same in this one. So then it steps down. It kind of goes up, comes over, and steps down. Does that make sense? It makes sense.

And there's the before and after, which from here is gonna look, you know, minuscule.

But I think Gateway liked it. It wasn't that big of a change. And in order to update the house, I don't know if you can see from over there. Yeah, you got it. I also don't know if you, we submitted after a write-up that had the gateway, each one of their criteria, and then how we think that we need it. Is that in the package?

We have that.

Okay, you have that. So if you look at the zoning table on every single category, we're just... pretty far under what's allowed. Like the maximum floor area can be 20%, we're at 7.7. The building coverage can be 20, we're at 6.1. The ground coverage can be 30, we're at 7.7. Number of stories, two and a half or two, no change. The maximum building height can be 35, it's no change. I think that the new proposed is 26 feet So we're quite under all of the, you know, it's definitely not a maxing out of this property.

That particular thing you're reading from, I don't see that actually in the official set.

Yes, you can take that.

We'll make that Exhibit J.

And then we also gave Gateway this. So this is, I took the computer drawing And the existing is the shaded. And then what sticks out past on the elevation is this white part. So I think that was helpful to them in seeing how much bigger. So if you're a numbers person, the existing house is 1,275 square feet of stuff. And the new is 208. So it's 16% larger. from the river. So you can have that too, I think. Thank you. Is there a landscaping plan anywhere? Well, we're not changing anything.

Well, so what we're actually concerned about at this commission is whether there's anything to soften, any height inclusions. It's really not about your building as much as it is the vegetation and other things. And I know you said that it was heavily vegetated but we can't really tell what you have. So maybe if you could give a description because- Yes.

We also gave you an aerial photo in those photos, this one right here. Yes. So you can see the things there right near your thumb, all of this vegetation here.

That looks pretty low relative to the house.

I measured it. It's 11 feet high from the bottom to the top, that variation.

Yeah, you can also see it in here. It's the light-colored vegetation there.

This photograph is down so low, it's a little hard to know if you're up at ground level what we would see because it was from the house or from the river. If you were over here on the river or there or any other place, other than right by the dock.

Jane, did you see this?

Yeah, but that's a picture from right by the dock.

Right by the dock, right. Right, right.

Bring the panorama one.

Sure. Let's see. This one is pretty much from water level.

Okay. Is that in the package that we have? I believe it is.

I think it is. It's a video. Additional photos beyond what they first came in with.

Okay, so that one's going to be fun. It's a landscape.

I'm not, okay. Okay, we got a new picture.

New picture is Exhibit K. Let me see.

Not this one, Jane, right? No.

Oh, no, okay. They're standing up on the mark.

We don't have that.

That's going to become Exhibit K. Yeah.

This one was really pretty representative of, I don't know, I'm not sure what it is. You know, being down on the water, there's a floating dock that I was standing on. So you'd be even lower in a kayak or I don't think you're going to be much above this in the type of boat that can get up the Lieutenant River. If I'm on a floating dock and standing here, you know, the sidewall of a boat that's there is about here. So you're not a lot. This really is representative.

Okay. Okay.

So Jane, do we have in the past that the report from that's a way of digging for them. I just want to make sure you add it because we did see it's in the materials that are online. So I just want to make sure we have it here. The

talking about Gateway's approval letter or the book? Okay, the approval letter was listed as an exhibit in here, so hopefully it's actually in the file.

Okay.

That's it? Okay, here we go.

So this is it. Would you like me to read it? All right. Dear Mr. Orzel, Old Line Zoning Commission has submitted the reference application to the Connecticut River Gateway Commission for approval Pursuant to section 25-102, the proposed special permit application proposes constructing second floor space above the existing first floor footprint for a primary bedroom suite, renovating an existing covered porch into a pantry and renovating the laundry mudroom findings. CRGC reviewed the application at its June 25th, 2026 meeting. CRGC finds the proposed development conforms to gateway standards in old line zoning regulation section 4, 10, 12, and CRCG is not opposed to the application. CRCG or GC appreciated the applicant submission of a document that outlines the gateway standards for special exception applications and how the project meets each standard. And they supposedly attached it, but it didn't get in here. And that's why we made it exhibit J. Yeah, that's what it is. Let's see. CRGC requests the Zoning Commission to make removal of the floodlight and replacement of the seven other exterior lights with dark sky compliant lighting a condition of approval. Property owners within the Gateway Conservation Zone enjoy the beauty and traditional riverway scene because of preservation efforts. CRGC works to ensure that beauty and tradition endures. property owners are expected to respect the preservation practices put in place by the Gateway Standards to prevent the deterioration of the riverway scene, including no new or expanded permanent structures within the 50-foot riparian buffer or 100-foot structural setback, preserving trees and replacing trees that are removed or dead with similar native species, using non-reflective glass in windows and doors, minimizing impervious surfaces, and planting and encouraging the growth of native riparian vegetation along waterways to improve the ecological health of the Connecticut River. Thank you for the Zoning Commission's continued assistance and partnership in the protection and preservation of the natural and traditional riverway scene within the lower Connecticut River Valley.

Before you guys keep going here, I get to also see this in the file at 4 o'clock today. We're going to call approval here. It's not listed as an exhibit, so I'm just going to have Jane add that as an exhibit as well.

River Cog.

No, River Cog. Ledge Light Health District. I'm sorry. I got it wrong. Ledge Light Health District. I'm looking at the letters. I'm seeing one thing and saying something else entirely. I apologize. I was looking at this, seeing LLHD, and I'm like, that's not River Cog. Yeah.

So that that's the reason it's the

preserving trees and replacing trees, we have to know which ones they are. But I guess there aren't any is what you're telling us. We're not taking, we're not changing the... Yeah, but we wouldn't know whether there was a tree or wasn't a tree.

Oh, there's also some on the site plan. I could point out to you if you want, but I think you can tell from the photos that there's just really big, beautiful trees on that property. I'm not sure they're on the water side, but there's a lot of beautiful old, old shrubs.

There are probably things that are not on the water side. It's not allowed for us to comment on. It's on the water side.

And then the other thing I should probably point out is that it's a very level lot. So I think a lot of what would run off the roof is taken down by gutters and tight-lined away and anything else additional is going to run very slowly on that level lawn. And then the bank is owned at different places by either the old land trust.

Is the line that we can see on that of where the growth starts getting tall, is that where the property owner's property ends and where the land trust ends? I believe it's tall on their property and

Mode mode on the property. The property line is kind of funny. Is that a diagonal through the bank? Let me get this site plan.

It's um.

I wish I had a marker, but it starts at one corner and the old line land trust owns the bank. And then it goes across this way. So again, part of the bank, a lot of the bank is owned by the old line land trust. This is owned by Old Lyme Land Trust. This is owned by Old Lyme Land Trust. And then part of the bank here.

And can you point out the tree that we were talking about?

Oh, there's a 65-inch beech right here. And then over here is a 36-inch pine, a 23-inch pine. And then you have a ghost tree line as well, right?

Yes.

Where's the tree line? Over here okay.

On the plan says limit of clearing what does that mean this is existing condition now.

I'm not going to put the location so they were those when it will clear. The limit of clearing down here. It's a winner way of clearing.

landscape area, limited clearing.

Is that left from something else? I don't know what that line is, but I think this is going through like huge, like three or four different huge rhododendron bushes that are like 20 feet tall.

So I'm not sure what that line is, but it's in the middle of those.

I think maybe this means the edge of the grass. We're not doing any work in that area, so I'm not sure. I'm sorry. We agree that that little note would be removed.

Yes. That's what I'm thinking. I just asked, you know, because I was looking at the tree line and saying, well, I put the tree line there. I'm not worried about the trees going anywhere. yeah but i wasn't sure what the limited clearing meant so because what we you know really want to make sure is that we have an existing conditions map yeah because then we can say you know you can't do i mean obviously if you have to replace a tree sometimes they come down that type of stuff but the idea is to maintain the integrity of the landscape and particularly and particularly following the conditions that Gateway suggested we follow. Exactly. That's where having a really good existing conditions map is really important for the work that we do here.

Right. So then there's also a 60-inch dogwood, hollybush. I think the major things are on here, and then the shrubs are in the squiggle. So I think limit of clearing must mean like the grass is the clearing, and then there's bushes all over there. It's not a way you normally see that stated.

Yeah, that's why it's kind of, that's why if we refer, I'm looking at which map I should refer to as existing conditions map, and this is the only one that kind of gets to that. Yes, that's the kind of says improvement location survey versus existing conditions, because that's where we always start with is, you know, existing conditions. So, I mean, I think I'm comfortable with, because we have this, getting an existing conditions map. And we have on the town website a 2023 aerial photo, and I'm assuming stuff hasn't really changed much from that. That would be something, Eric, you would want to take a look at is the existing conditions. But to Jane's point, I think if we have that in the file, because then we can refer to that, the existing conditions map. So if there's one that says improvement location survey, I'm kind of like, hmm, and it's got some jargon on it that we probably don't want on there. That just gets confusing, like limit of clearing when nobody... And I'm looking at the map where it doesn't look like they cleared in that area, although it's hard to tell because... there's some trees, so I can't tell you what the canopy is.

Yeah, it's too bad this is not showing it, but that area is very densely planted with very old shrubs.

So I think this is, so I live right near you guys, and so this, I think that piece of the property, because this is the road, and prior to the house being sold, it was like totally overgrown vines ripping down the trees and like just all different new growth trees. It was a total mess. And I think before they put it on the market, they cleared it out because you used to not be able to see your house from Lieutenant River. Now you can. I mean, not clearly. So I don't know if that's a holdover from what it was before, but that area was cleared out by the previous owners. So I don't know if that's...

I think this is an old note.

Yeah, that's what I think it is.

An error that can be removed.

That's what I'm saying. And just give us an existing conditions map just in case any other vegetation has changed. Since that's old, it's like, let's make sure the vegetation lines are correct. Yeah. So as long as we have that existing conditions map, I'm comfortable with and, you know, we can have staff make sure that we have that. Oh, that's something new? Yeah. And just quickly, in terms of the drive, The drive, does it go all the way, is it a circular drive that goes all the way out to Lieutenant?

It connects to Lieutenant River and Academy.

And Academy, so it does, okay. So that we know that, and that's what I'm, you know, that might, look at all the existing conditions, Matt Boyd, show them like that.

I think the driveway's on here.

Yeah, okay, it is.

I just wanted to make sure, now I'm seeing it. It's existing?

Yeah. Yeah. Where does it go? So the only change is the area of construction, and that's pretty much lawn.

These corner shrubs, are they going to be disturbed?

Because if you look at the photo from the river, they do tend to soften that corner.

That corner there. I don't think these would be affected.

No, I'm talking about the ones towards the river. Yes.

No, I think those could stay. Those will be there? No. The footprint change is, see this little gable roof? That's going to be rebuilt. The little gable roof.

No footprint change there.

Here. You can see it gets a little wider on the survey. Okay.

where the dark spots are, but that's not in the area of those bushes.

Yeah, so if there's, so I think, you know, making sure, so is that on the plans in terms of a survey? Like this is, what's the name of this map? What map number is it that you're looking at there? This one, the survey? Are you saying that's the improvement location survey? Yes.

I think that's the only one we gave you because it was such minor changes that he incorporated them both.

So the proposed additions are here in gray. Yes. And it expands the foot for just a little bit. Yeah.

So these bushes are out in front of the gray.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think whatever, because this is on what is called, they've got this limit of clearing. So just make sure we have your proposed map, but also we need a map that says existing conditions, nothing proposed, and then what's proposed. So we can see like, okay, this is what we're allowing. It's always good to have that existing conditions map, but that's where we started from. That makes sense. I'm sure they have that on. I'm sure it's somewhere, but we don't have it in this set. Because usually they do do a, you know, a survey just to say, this is, you know, I mean, That's how they start with it. So that shouldn't be hard to get.

Are you okay with the Gateway's comment about changing everything to dark sky lighting?

Yes. So that last document I gave you details each light and it met their criteria. There is one floodlight facing the river and that we proposed removing before we we got there. And then the other ones would be changed to dark sky fixtures.

The Gateway letter says the floodlight plus seven exterior lights, but it's seven in total. So it's seven in total exterior lights on the whole property.

So it's the floodlight plus six.

Can we tell where the floodlight is on this?

Or can you tell us where it is? Yeah, there's a picture of each elevation, so you should be able to see it. It's going to be hard from your distance, but it's right next to that white bluebird. So it's from the house. Yeah.

And that is going to go, right? That is going to go. Completely remove that, yes.

And other than that, I think they have lights to code. Like you need one outside of each door. And I think that's basically what the house has. It's still like a nice old house that's not over.

Right. And those will put dark light like a dark side shielding on it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Other comments? Questions? By the Commission? No?

Okay. The documents are also maintained by you? Yes, that's right. Yeah. And we get deeded right to it goes over the land trust land.

Okay, if we're, if we're good.

Then I will open the application up to public comment and ask if there's anyone in the audience that would like to make any public comment on this application at this time. And if you would, you come forward, please state your name and address.

Okay. Not seeing any hands.

I will ask the commission then if we are ready to motion to close the public hearing on 7 Lieutenant River? 6? Motion by Jane Morris. Second by Denise Savageau. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Abstain? Okay, the public hearing is closed. 5-0-0. Thank you. Do we want to move right ahead into the vote on that?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I will take a motion then.

Take a motion. I'll make a motion that we approve the permit in our review that we will ask them to do the following conditions to remove the limit of clearing note on the survey location plan to provide us with an existing conditions map that it shows at minimum all the landscaping and if necessary, the lighting so that we know what to do. And the requirement that they eliminate the floodlight that's located on the eve of the house and they change the remaining lighting that is facing the water to dark sky compliant lighting. If anybody can think of anything else, I forgot. What about the non-reflective glass?

Is there any? Yeah, well, the no there isn't. If they they're going to add, they're adding windows with the addition, right? Yeah. Okay.

That's a non reflected glass in the addition.

You just want to say incorporating all? Yeah. Thank you. Why don't we just say incorporating all requirements set by gateway in their letter of letter dated July 7, 2026.

So I'll make those lists, but then I'll add that as a thing, including all. Okay. Okay.

Is there a second to the motion?

I'll second. Second by Denise. Any additional discussion?

Yeah, I have just one silly question. Do we, it's a CAM permit. Do we have anything from? We have nothing, I'm sorry. Had to ask.

You had to ask.

But I honestly believe if you had it, I had it, you would have it. I'm just asking just in case it came on and lost. I didn't see it, but just wanted to make sure.

Okay. Additional discussion? Okay. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Abstain? Okay.

The application is approved 5-0-0. Thank you.

Okay. All right.

Now we will go to the second public hearing, case number 2617, I think. Madam Secretary, you've read all the legals, I believe, for... Exhibits. Exhibits. So we're second for the exhibits? Yeah.

Anybody's got extra maps down there?

Anything of extra maps that? Yes.

Yes. Sorry.

Okay. Thank you.

That's it.

Yes.

Okay, the exhibits on this one are Exhibit A, which is an application. Exhibit B are plan sheets dated April 24, 2026. Exhibit C is a letter from J. Brendan Sharkley dated June 24, 2026. Exhibit D is the fire marshal mail response 6-17-26. An exhibit is certification of mailings. That's what our exhibits are.

Oh, Mr. Sharkey, is he representing?

That's Mr. Sharkey right there. Oh, okay. Mr. Sharkey can speak for himself. I'll do it with your permission. Can I ask a question before we start?

on the mailing of the neighbors. One of the questions I know we talked about last time was the Amtrak. And do they go by a different name on that list? Because I didn't see one here.

Is it attached to here? I'm trying to find it. with your permission. Go ahead, yeah.

There were two addresses that I was able to ascertain for Amtrak, and they were both sent notices. One was to Philadelphia, to their real estate and property control division, and the other was to the Connecticut registered agent for service for Amtrak, which is in Hartford. So both of them received copies of the notes. I just didn't see it. Yeah.

If you have, yes.

Okay, I was okay.

Since you're Amtrak, registered for service, 225 Asylum Street, 204 Hartford, Connecticut. Amtrak, real estate, property control, 30th Street Station, Box 14, Philadelphia, PA, 19104. Thank you.

The reason for the confusion is because when you download the abutters from the town's GIS mapping, it does not include Amtrak. Thank you. It was brought to our attention. Thank you.

Give us a sec. This is some of the stuff. Whether it's all the extra stuff.

So it's a couple of things.

It's only one of those for everybody. Okay. This part of it is here. Here's another. Yeah, I think so. Sorry, that's just one. Okay, I think we're ready to go. Okay.

Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, the members of the commission. My name is Brendan Sharkey. I am the attorney representing Old Connolly Beach Club Association, Miami Beach Association, and Old Lyme Shores Beach Association for this amendment to an existing special permit permits, I should say, that have been issued to all three of those associations for the purposes of building out their sewer infrastructure project. You're familiar with, I'm sure. Just to reiterate for the record a couple of things. One is that these sewer installations are both internal to each of the beach associations, but also have a common infrastructure That is taking the sewage away from Long Island Sound and the underground aquifer and water resources pursuant to a consent order from the state of Connecticut. These beach associations are complying with the state of Connecticut's mandate and order to remediate the pollution that is leaching into Long Island Sound as well as to the groundwater. And they have each taken on this project over the last several years with some earnestness and a purpose as well as a financial commitment that each of them have made by floating their own bonds to cover these costs for the installation and compliance with the state of Connecticut. What you have today is, in fact, it's somewhat unique in that I actually changed your application form to add the word amendment instead of it being the actual application for the special permit. It's an amendment to the existing special permits that have been issued specifically for the purpose of approving offsite lay down areas for the construction associated with the sewers. these lay down areas are governed in your regulations by section 14.9, which lays out the elements that an applicant needs to present to the zoning commission for approval of any lay down areas or storage areas for a construction project that is not physically on site to where the construction is actually occurring. The Commission in previous meetings had determined that this process that we're going through tonight, the public hearing, was required an amendment to the existing special permit. For the record, I have expressed to the land use enforcement officer, the land use official, that I disagree with that interpretation. I'm not sure that we needed to do the process that we're following tonight, but in the interest of of working with the town and in comedy, we're actually submitting this information and providing this amendment to the existing special permits in an effort to help move the project forward in cooperation with the town. And having said that, I think the beach associations appreciate a lot of the input from the town, town officials, staff and staff with regard to the scale and scope of this project. As you know, this is probably one of the largest civil construction projects that is being undertaken in Old Lyme. And we've appreciated a lot of the suggestions and comments that we've received thus far. Just to recap, two months ago, I'm joined by Doug Whalen, who's the president of the Old Colony Beach Association, and there are other members here, as well as the contractors. Sorry, Doug, that I didn't introduce you right away. Doug was here before you two months ago to present to you the information about these plans, not realizing that it might require an amendment. Following that, we determined that we should get an application into you, and that was done on June 24th. During that time with the staff, I think there were a number of positive suggestions about things that the beach associations might want to consider with regard to the special permits generally, that there are other elements that perhaps might need to be reconsidered from the original approvals. And it was suggested, I think, by Eric, that we at least attempt to make this hearing tonight an opportunity to put all of those potential changes or adjustments or amendments on the table at one time. And when the team consulted, the team, including Deep, the engineers, Fuss and O'Neill, the contractors, as well as representatives from the beach associations and their WPCAs, it was pretty clear that we were not going to be able to get our arms around every possible issue that might pop up in the course of the construction at this time. There are still too many variables out there that are maybe a year or more down the road. And what we opted to do instead was to bring to you, again, just the amendment for the lay down areas and only that for tonight. with the understanding that if there are other changes or other adjustments we may need to the existing special permits, we'll need to come back to you for approval for those changes as they become evident. But as of right now, even if we were to suggest one or two of those changes, we'll probably be back to you anyway with something that was unforeseen, perhaps sometime down the road. So with that said, the governing regulation, as I described in Section 14.9, which requires the applicants provide you with a statement of use, as well as plans and other evidence of mitigation measures for the lay down areas, including visual screening, tracking and dust prevention on site, and any other relevant sets of plans that may be necessary. So the two properties that are in question are 224 Shore Road, which is you have in your maps here. 224 Offshore Road is actually a rear of the parcel that abuts Amtrak, the rail line, and behind an existing residential home. So this is the area that's in question for 224. And then 250 is directly on Shore Road, and this is the map that demonstrates where the lay down area is with the highlights described. We have the contractors who produced both of these sets of plans here tonight to answer other questions you may have. Please note that each of these not only include the map, but it also includes the screening and other mitigation measures that are contemplated as required by the regulation. I mentioned that the town staff had made some other suggestions about how we might want to approach this, these two lay down areas. One was the notion that there might be another property elsewhere in town in the industrial zone. That option was Uh, there was a property owner there who expressed some interest in perhaps hosting, uh, those lay down areas, but frankly, the price that, uh, that property owner was looking for, for a lease of those properties was usurious to the point that it would actually have completely upset the financial, the financials of the project itself, which as you probably know, is, um, is very carefully, um, put together in cooperation with the state of Connecticut, Bond Council, and others who are involved in the financing of these projects. But nevertheless, it is necessary that we have an off-site location for these lay-down areas because there's not sufficient space within the beach communities themselves to put projects down the equipment and the materials that will be necessary for the project. The other reason why the industrial zone property was not really preferable was that if we were to use that, notwithstanding the price, obviously that was also going to add to a lot of traffic within town. At least these locations are directly adjacent to the beach communities as a whole. So all of the truck traffic that may be going in and out would at least be kept localized to the area and not necessarily be affecting the rest of the line. So that's the presentation. That is the application. Doug, I don't know if you had anything to add to that.

Okay. What were you proposing as your hours of operation and the durations?

The hours, correct me, because the contractors are here with us, and they are currently under contract, so they know what their hours of operation are. They would be, as I recall, 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock.

What time would the equipment start being warmed up?

Maybe they can approach and put their names on the record. Why don't you go forward and give your name on the record? Mike Lawson, Jet VC Construction.

Dennis Balthazar, Balthazar Contractors.

So the question was, are you going to start digging at 7, which would probably indicate that you're going to start your equipment at 5.30 or 6? No. Or equipment starts warming up at 7?

So in the staging area, it wouldn't be before 7, right? Our equipment on site may warm up a few minutes before, but it certainly wouldn't be 5.30 or 6, maybe quarter to 7 on site. But within the staging areas, it wouldn't be before 7.

Same for us.

How about the duration of the whole thing?

Yeah, the contract that the three beach associations have with the contractors doing the work is, yes, how many days total?

I think the longest duration contract is 16 months, I believe.

Yes, September of 2027, this one ends and September of 2027 this month.

If we say September 2027, that's good.

Got it.

Before we get too far along, July 7th, Chris Calvinese filed a building permit for 250 Shore Road to construct the self-storage units. Here's a copy of the permit that's filed in our system. I don't know if you folks are aware that he has done this. I don't know how the fact that he has filed for this permit to construct the self-storage units on this site plays along with what you're doing here. But I am curious what we think is coming first or how these are going to play well together. So, again, I don't know. Mr. Calvin isn't even here this evening, but this was filed less than a week ago and again indicates an intention to start essentially right away.

As far as the Old County Beach, Old Lyme Shores, and Miami Beach goes, these contractors would use this area as a lay-down area. During their time of using it as a lay-down area, once they are completed, they're going to restore it back to its original condition as to what it exists today or level it out. So there will be no additional, they don't expect to do anything to the site other than restoring it back to its original condition.

Okay, so it's your representation then that even though he just filed the building permit, that he will not be starting on the building permit until your project is complete?

Yeah, that's right, because Mr. Calvinese is also under a lease agreement that has already been executed. So that would take priority.

And also the other location at 224 they're under a lease also with the other vendor genovese has a lease with that owner to use that as a storage area only and restore it back to its original condition at the end of their Contract.

I'm good with that. I was somewhat disturbed, confused. I'm not quite sure of the right adjective. I believe we submitted those contracts. We have the contract. Because I have essentially conflicting data here, I'm trying to get on the record where we are with this because, again, I wasn't expecting to see the building permit for one use when you're coming in today for a different use. Correct. Okay? Yes. So as long as we make clear that Calvinese comes after... You wouldn't, it's all storage.

And the owner's right here. So, I mean, the vendor's right here. So, Dennis from Baltazar, do you plan on using it for just your use? And then you're going to restore it back to its original?

Yeah, which is typical in our practice.

That's fine. Again, I'm just... Because this was sort of new information and because this sort of contradicted what you guys are presenting tonight, I wanted to make sure that we all understood the sequence of events going forward. Yes.

So what happens to that building, Jim, at these files?

Well, I'm going to make sure that from my zoning perspective, when it comes to me, I'm going to say cannot start construction until after the SOAR project is completed.

Right, because if they have an overrun, We can't put a hard date on this.

My zoning stop on it is they cannot start this project until this project is completed. So I just wanted to make sure that it hasn't reached me yet. It's still in front of the ledge light, but it will probably reach me tomorrow. So before I sign off on the zoning piece of it, I want to make clear that I will write on the zoning piece for the self-storage cannot commence until completion and restoration by the sewer project.

If there were any overruns, we would come back to you to let you know about the overruns.

While we're on the subject, on the other property, do they have a building permit?

No. The other project, and I believe he's here, the other project is also for self-storage, but he's never come in to actually construct the self-storage. And at this point, obviously, were he to come in to construct the self-storage, I would put the same conditions on approval on, which is cannot do that until this project is completed.

Does this delay affect their permit?

Well, it clearly would in the sense that special permits are valid for five years. It may be that they will have to come in for some sort of extension of that special permit if they start running out of time due to this other thing. And again, there's a maximum of five years plus five years, 10 years. So if we reach the end of the 10 years and for whatever reason they haven't started construction, then the special permit goes away. And as you know, you've removed that as a use for that location. So it cannot be further extended.

Is it possible that this...

The entity that submitted this building permit application is unaware of the use on this?

Oh, no.

Chris Galvanese is very well aware of what's going on.

They have a signed lease agreement with these contractors. That's why it's extremely odd.

That's why I wanted to get it on the record tonight in front of the commission so that we're all on the same page as to what's going on here because I didn't want this to sort of come up as he's starting to build one thing and they're trying to do something else and there's conflict here.

Very contradictory, yeah. My understanding is we're not using the entire site.

I understand. The self-storage units cover more or less the entire site. So he can't build his three 10,000 square foot buildings on the site that you were using at the same time that you're actually using it as a laid out yard. And if he wants to, then he's going to have to demonstrate what portions he's building on that you're not using and what sort of that we come to. But he's come in for the entire $1.5 million construction project covering the entire site. So that doesn't seem to align with what you're proposing to see. And I just had to get it on the record that you come first, he comes second. Thank you. Thank you very much.

And that's that we're going to use this as the diagram of the area.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's, yeah, there's nothing we have one for 250 as well. Yeah, that would be this one.

Yeah. Okay.

So I have a question about the anticipated night hours on the Balthazar site. You're saying that anticipated hours for that work are specific to 10 p.m. to 6 a.m., and could you just tell us what's going on there?

So there is mandatory night work for an Amtrak crossing that we have to do. So per Connecticut DOT and Amtrak, we're only allowed to work, I think, between 1 and 5 a.m., They de-energize the tracks and allow a four-hour window at night. So that's the only reason why that work has to be done at night. It's a small amount of work. There'll be very limited action with the staging area because it's what it listens from the staging area.

So here's my question. Can Amtrak provide you with a staging area for that work so that you could bring your equipment over there you know, what you're going to be using at night and then, you know, still stay within the seven of, you know, is there a way to do that working with Amtrak?

Yeah, there's not a lot of material required for that.

Yeah, because I'm not, I have to say that's one thing that I'm not inclined to. I think that's a challenge in a resident, you know, we've got a residential neighborhood. So I was just looking if you had a worker, you know, could you perceive a workaround if we didn't allow that? Yes. And then we got a note from the fire chief. Where did that note go? About no access to water. And how are you going to handle water?

If I may, in my letter on June 24th to Eric, that we indicated that there will be no hydrant use associated with the project. So that's that the fire marshal's concerns were addressed.

Okay, so there's not going to be any hydrant use. Do you need water on site for anything else?

Yeah, we'll source our own water. We have options.

You have options to source water.

That'll be trucked. Either trucked or there's going to be quite a bit of dewatering on the job. So, you know, our intention is to, you know, we're going to, there's going to be a lot of wells set up, so. We can pump out and save it or buy it and bring it in. I believe we've spoken to the town over. They would allow us to fill up there, too. So, yeah, it would be through tankers.

And what would you use the water for on site? I'm sorry? On site, what do you need the water for?

There's going to be some drilling. Some of the equipment requires water for cleanup and sweeping.

Yeah, so that's where you're working, but why would you need it in the yard? In the lay-down yard. In the lay-down yard.

We wouldn't. And that's, again...

So that's what I'm saying. You don't need water. There's not going to be any activity in the lay-down yard that you would need the water for. It's for the off-site activity.

Correct. For the project itself.

And I'm looking at that because we're bringing water and we're washing vehicles or we're doing whatever we're doing. Then I need to say, how are we containing that? And that kind of gets me. I see that you are using... temporary, you know, berms for spills and whatever. And do you anticipate leaving equipment, you know, when do you anticipate using those when you're leaving equipment on the site? And what are you, you know, how are you anticipating using those containment areas?

I'm sorry?

In the lay down areas you're asking? Yeah, in the lay down areas. Are you anticipating, I mean, because they're, you know, on the plans that you submitted to us.

Spill protection. Yeah.

And that's what I'm saying. So are you planning on parking trucks in those overnight so there's no spill? Or is there an activity in the lay down yard that you need to do to protect? I'm trying to figure out when there would be a spill and when you're looking to use these.

Even in the maintenance of the equipment?

The lubrication?

The lubrication? The Warm up, the things of that nature, you don't do any?

Warm up.

I'm sorry.

You're talking warm up the equipment?

Yes. And then the lubrication?

Yeah. But we wouldn't be power washing equipment there. We wouldn't be cleaning equipment there. None of those aspects.

So you're not going to do any of that?

Stuff goes in an oil-water separator.

And then just in terms of the site plans that we've gotten, it's pretty level. So do you anticipate you're going to strip the tops a little? And put it back. Yeah, and put it back. Are you anticipating, obviously we got the anti-tracking pads, but are you anticipating having to bring any other fill in in terms of, you know, gravel or anything else? Are you anticipating that, you know?

For the surface? Yes. Maybe a little crushed stone. That would be it, you know, just where the tracking pad goes.

Yeah, I mean, whatever material we bring in is to be used on site. So when we're done, the site will be cleared. There will be no material left, you know, What we're going to do is strip the topsoil. When we're done, we're going to put it back. We're going to grade it, put it back, and see that. So it's going to look just like it did when we built it.

So when you strip the topsoil, you're going to put down a crushed stone to have areas that the equipment can go on and lift?

Yeah, I believe we show some anti-tracking.

And that crushed stone will be pulled out and the topsoil will be returned? Yeah, exactly.

Well, you're showing the anti-tracking pad at the end. So, you know, and that's basically just going in and out. You're not tracking out. You're not, you know. But I was looking at, you know, so that you don't just have a big mud hole where you're going to be, you know, in your yard.

224 is primarily already milling some gravel.

Yeah, but whatever necessary stone we need. If we have mud issues, we definitely would.

But 250 is not, though.

Okay. Yeah, so we would make sure we put whatever stone we need to prevent any runoff. And then when we're done, we remove it and put the topsoil back.

One entrance and exit. Is that correct?

I believe we're showing two. Yeah, two in each case.

Two for $250. Right, two for $250.

And you have one and two. No, we've set one.

Is one an entrance and one an exit?

No, just two different ways to get in and out.

Is that part of our regulation? Are we allowed to do that?

It's governed by the state. The state has to issue permits to get on and off of the state highway there. So if the state issues it, then we're going to stop with whatever the state issues.

Well, the one on Shore Road is the state permit. That's the curb cut.

Yeah.

The one on the west side is through an existing driveway.

So there's already a driveway there. And then the new curb cut is the one on Shore Road. But that's private property.

Is that part of your lease? Yes.

Okay. This recent one, Mary Jo, was just put in.

Okay.

Okay. And that's the state?

Per the state.

Per the state.

And that depiction that you see there, that'll all be privacy fencing all the way around, right? Yeah.

Temporary fencing with privacy screening.

Yeah.

How tall?

It's still kind of four foot.

So at 250, what is there now? What are these items?

These items? Yes. The things that are... No, yeah, I think that's a prior photo from GPS. I don't know.

Jane, that area that if you're referring to here, okay, that's what Connecticut Water used. to have as a staging area when they were doing the water lines.

There's nothing there now? These things, whatever they are?

There's some trailers there, right? There are some things.

Not everything in that photo is there now.

There is some remaining equipment. Those trailers belong to you folks?

No.

Do we know what those trailers are?

They're going to have to be removed as part of whatever's going on.

You're going to get rid of those, right? They're not mine.

The property owner will be responsible for making sure the site is in the condition you need it for before you move in.

It also says they will clear everything out.

Ultimately, they can't move what isn't theirs, but the property owner is responsible for giving them a clean site. So it will be up to the property owner to, as property owners on this permit as well, so make it a conditional approval that they clear the site, that we can make that a requirement, and obviously These guys have every interest in getting a clear site when they get there.

So we need to ensure that Connecticut Water is not going to use this as a dual site as this is going on.

Well, whether they are or they aren't, they never came in for a dam zoning permit. Right. So they have a cease and desist order saying they can't use it for that purpose. So I want to clear it off.

Exactly. Okay. And we have a lease to use the permit. We need the property. Right.

Will you be working year round or is there a seasonal aspect to this project?

Yeah, we're working year round. Yes.

So the 700 odd days is?

Yeah, the way the contracts were written.

Okay. Okay.

There was some mention of different amounts of days. The amount of days is 753, is that correct? Yeah. There's, I think, four or five different contracts. But the total length of this lease shall be or intended to be that long.

Correct. The two contractors that are here, is there a work schedule?

So one of the things we have is two sets of plans by two separate engineers. Somebody's working with Fussett O'Neill and somebody's got a different contract than somebody else. Is that correct?

I put my plans together.

Contractors themselves produce the plans that you have for the lay-down areas. Both of them did so in consultation with FUS and O'Neill just to determine if there were any wetlands in the vicinity and what other physical conditions existed in the area.

They're a little bit different, so I'm just trying to make sure I reconcile in terms of that everybody... It's like we've got, you know, I don't see a topsoil stockpile area on your plan. I think you have it on your plan. Are you going to have a stockpile area as well? Could you make sure we see that on the plan then? I don't see it. I could be missing it, but let's just make sure we have that so it's, you know, in an area that's not noxious and doing what it needs to do.

I was just trying to compare to make sure we knew. And are you both using the same height fence, six feet? For the perimeter fence?

For the perimeter fence. I heard four. One said four, one said six. Yeah, so I heard. Yeah, so.

We had six, that's what we saw. And yours is four, right?

That's why I'm just like, make sure we know.

What's the difference in the staging areas between both properties?

As far as the sensor?

Not, what's different? What's being held in one versus the other?

Their vaults are on Port Genovese. Okay.

Same type of project that they're working on? So it's equipment? One project has Old County Beach. The other vendor has Miami Beach and Old Lyme Shores. Okay. And the shared infrastructure. Okay.

Okay.

One of the things you mentioned in one of your presentations, I think it was, Doug, you had said that the idea behind this is because you don't want machinery going throughout town. Is that realistic for us to accept that that's going to be the case, that you'll be going down south to the beach communities, but you won't be driving down the accessory roads?

We'll be on the state road.

just on the state road.

For the most part, yeah. Otherwise, we'd be forced to go into different areas of town further away that would require additional triaxles and dump trucks to be going over the road. So we're trying to limit that. And these areas are as close as you can get to the area of impact.

Definitely, we'll minimize it.

Will you be, I mean, no, this is not probably directly related to our discussion here, but I was just wondering, during your busy hours, will you have... some police for traffic control, et cetera. Was that in your plan?

Yeah, police or flaggers, flaggers, depending on where we are. State road. That's all built into the contract.

Okay.

Yeah, for the contract documents. Yeah, we'll have state police on the state road and then flaggers with any associations.

I've been attending remotely or in person the pre-construction meetings that they've been having here, so I'm making sure all this gets covered with pre-construction meetings as well. And that's not really covered the lay down in our piece of it, but I am sort of making sure that as part of all of this, you know, I am listening in and making sure that things get taken care of, which is why I did get to attorney Sharkey and say, look, there seems to be a mismatch between what they say they're doing and what the contract says, what's happening with that. And he's indicated, we're not doing that tonight. Well, we will be back for you at some point. So we will be seeing this again at some point with further conditions. So I'm guessing. Okay.

I mean, one of my concerns is the neighbor's, will they be able to get in and out as they're going to work or returning from work without tearing their hair out?

Yeah, I mean, the impact for the staging areas is just confined to that area. So we won't be taking up any space or limiting people from accessing their driveways.

And as far as the individual communities go, when they're on a street, they're going to have a section of that street That's only allowed for local traffic. So people will still be able to get to the driveways, but there'll be either security officers or police will be in that area and will monitor, you know, one side, you know, so, and for example, Oak County Beach will have, when they're on Oak County Road, the gate for Oak County Road will be closed and they'll have to use the other roads. So we have a traffic plan that we're going to work with the vendors and we're going to do it by sections. And I'm sure the same thing will happen with Old Lime Shores, the same thing will happen with Miami Beach. And all three individual contracts have built in traffic control prices that the state has already approved.

Is the whole project starting at the same time or do you have one beach associations going first?

I believe it's going to start right after Labor Day. For Old Colony. For Old Colony. Yeah, us as well.

I have just a couple of questions, and that has to do with lighting. One is lighting. I have a note on your plan that says lighting is not needed, with the exception of the network Amtrak. But if we say no, you have to find something else to do there, you aren't anticipating any lighting.

Other than the Amtrak work?

Yeah. So if we basically said you've got to find an alternative for that night work, you wouldn't need any lighting then?

I mean, it'd be nice to have, but if we can't, that's fine.

We can make it work. Yes. I guess I wouldn't be opposed to if you need, you know, obviously it gets dark at 4.30. and you guys are going to work until five. So I wouldn't be opposed to having lighting on site, but I would say it has to be off when you're not there. We can't put security lighting up. So if you have temporary lighting, that's not, we're talking about, we don't want lighting on at night. There's just no way. That's just not going to happen.

But you're buttoned up at five.

So lights should be off by 5.30. We don't want to be there past 5. Right.

And then just the last thing, we've got the erosion sediment controls in. Usually we're looking at, you know, drainage stormwater management and fire marshal looks at this. How is the site going to drain? And I guess it kind of gets back to what I was looking at in terms of, are you guys going to be bringing in anything in terms of fill? One, I'm assuming, and that's why we always get ourselves in trouble, I'm assuming you've got really sandy conditions out there. You don't want to take off the topsoil. But that said, we also don't want to have a problem where we've got heavy equipment, putting down materials, and now we've got compaction of soil, and then we have drainage issues. So are you, in knowing the site, are you anticipating any of that? And kind of like we have the spill stuff, are you anticipating having to do anything in terms of that? Because it's not, you know, and like I said to the fire marshal's report, how are you anticipating drainage off of those sites so that you don't, you know, I understand right to drain, you need to drain, needs to be clean. but it also, you know, we also can't flood wherever we're going. So if you anticipate any challenges with that. Yeah.

We'll still continue to go where it's going and then we'll have the erosion control. Okay.

And so we're not anticipating any compaction so that we're not, you know, the water should still go down.

Yeah, it's pretty, it's free draining material. So I don't expect that.

I just want to put You know, I'm trying to figure out, I mean, that's my guess, but I just want to make sure that we're prepared for that, that if we have drainage issues, you guys are going to have to address these. And like I said, I just, you know, Fire Marshal mentioned it, just making sure that sometimes when you have flat grades, you think like, oh, it's flat. It's never got, but that just being like, okay, now it's tilted a little bit. So now it's draining onto this neighbor's property or it's going this way at that way. So I just want to, you know, obviously water needs to go and there's that, but I just want to make sure that we're on top of that. Sure.

And they do have a silk fence completely around the property.

Well, I'm just, you know, to your point, um, at least 10 to 50, um, maybe this was two years ago, we had some days of heavy, heavy rain. There was a huge pile of dirt there at one point, and there was basically a lake on the site. So I kind of understand where you're coming from, Denise. If we add that to compacted soil, and that wasn't the existing condition there, I felt it was a safety risk. I mean, if kids were out in there, I thought it would is unsafe. And I know you said you're going to have a dewatering plan and stuff, but that property does hold water. It does not necessarily drain.

Which one is that? 250. Well, that's the thing. I haven't looked at the soils maps, and there's so much manipulation down there, they may not help me anyway. But you anticipate well-drained, but not necessarily because if it's a filled tidal marsh, now you've got compacted not, you know, not sand. You know, you've got a peat and muck that's compacted, which is going to just, it's a clay material, very fine, and it's just going to hold water. So that's where we just, you know, we need to kind of anticipate like what we need to do. It's flat, so it might just drain, but I'm also like, you know, with heavy equipment on it, things can change very quickly. So I was trying to figure out, and like I said, the fire marshal mentioned this, you know, They should have proper silt and drainage control. So I was looking at the drainage controls. Obviously, the silt fence were okay, but I'm looking at more of the drain, you know, just make sure that we have that graded appropriately and we don't have stuff draining inappropriately. Any rills, gullies, et cetera, need to be taken care of immediately. It's just such a tight area.

Any other comments?

I guess from what I don't have a clear understanding of is this is different than what the property is permitted for. And how does that affect our discussions?

Well, again, you've heard that these permits will come first. They have essentially two separate special permits and per contract, one will have to come before the other. If the other permits run out of time, and again, the use is no longer permitted on that site, so the property owners are basically taking a risk here. They're saying, we think we can do this. We'll still get to our stuff later. But this is a temporary special permit. It will expire. And when it does, it's gone, and at that point, they'll just pick up with whatever they had before the underlying special permit at that point. So, I think it's possible. Your decision here as zoning commission is whether you think it's something that you want to approve. I mean, that's true with any special permit here. Obviously, they're not giving up the current special permit. You're not hearing that they're giving those up. But you are hearing that they are at least deferred until such time as this project is completed. It's about the best I can offer you on that.

And I think your regulations also specify that if there's a temporary use of a property such as this, that it doesn't affect the underlying use that's allowed in the zone. So nothing about these leases is going to necessarily affect or impact the underlying available use for the property. And that's what Section 14 anticipates, that for a lay-down area, this is going to be

definition temporary not a 90-day temporary but they're you know it's not a permanent use of the property can any of you shed light on there's this shaded area approximate area not included in agreement which is not at the streets behind you know it's it's in the rear um any idea yeah 250. yeah is that That's not part of... Can you shed any light on why or what the intended use is for that? If you can't, you can't. No, I just know we don't need it.

So you're going to fence that?

Your fence will be around... That area will remain unfenced. Yes. We're just going to fence the area we're going to use that's shaded in red.

Other questions?

And you're going to fence the entire perimeter, right?

Yeah, the entire. Yeah, we are. I'm not sure what. You're going to fence the entire area.

You put silt fence. So fence around the entire, yeah.

Not fence.

The fence.

Oh, because you back up on the.

Like 250, that was perimeter fence.

Yes.

Okay.

And 240, it's not chain link around the whole thing, just partially. Yeah, they're two separate.

I know.

I have to keep flipping back and forth. Oh, okay. Okay.

but you'll have silk and saran. Additional comments or concerns or questions for the applicants before we open it up to public comment? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, so if there's anyone in the audience this evening that would like to make a public comment on this application, you can kind of signify you'd like to come up, state your name and address, and make your comment.

My name is Don Broder, and I... represent 220 Shore Road, which is the property that borders the west side of the property that you're looking at as a special lay down area. And I would just like to voice on behalf, it's owned by a LLC, Osprey Landing, which I am a member of. And I would just like to offer the support of all the members of Osprey Landing for this special permit. Many of us are owners and affiliated with Old Colony Beach and for transparency purposes, I've been on the WPCA for Old Colony Beach for the last 16 years, and we are all looking forward to having this project go forward. I grew up in this town and over my lifetime, as many of you that have been on the board for a while. I owned and ran a water company that serviced Old Colony, Old Lime Shores, and Soundview, and I can tell you that the groundwater is significantly contaminated. If there was a PERC test done on Portland Avenue, I can tell that all of you would get sick just from the smell of the effluent, especially during when there's a high tide. So I can't emphasize enough how excited we are to go forward with this project, all three beaches, and we support this, and I support this personally as a homeowner and lifelong fan of Oak Colony and Olin. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes, please.

Hi.

Hi.

My name is Tracy Sunderland. My house is 256 Shore Road. It's adjacent to the property, to 250. So I'm just here to hear how this impacts my property. I'm glad there's going to be fencing. I'm glad to hear there's that there. I just watched the last year on 250, all the dirt that was there that was just, you know, everywhere, flying everywhere. So I just want to make sure that my property is protected in a way and that I'm considered in this. I'm not opposed to it. I just want to make sure that I'm considering this property because I'm directly adjacent with it. I don't know how close any of this will be to my house or to my property line.

So exactly where are you? Across the street from 250?

This is directly adjacent.

Next to? This is the property. Part of this property right here?

I don't know what you have there.

That's the other way. Oh, the other way, right here. Okay. Okay.

So I don't know if there's, I know they mentioned mitigation, which would be great. I know with the dirt, it was just filthy. I have to wash my windows, can't open the windows. It was really dirty. But I want to be a good neighbor and I was quiet about it. And I thought when it was over, it was over. And now we're looking at something again. But this sounds really like it's planned well. I don't know what happened the last time. I just want to make sure that I have support and that my property will also be protected. From dirt, from excess noise. Thank you for talking about the noise. I appreciate it. I see the entrance already was built there, so that was good. I thought it was going to be right along my property, but it's over further, so that's good.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?

Hi, I'm Steve Hunes. I am a resident of 37 Old Colony Road. I've been on the Old County Beach Board of Governors and a member of the Old County Beach WPCA for 11 years. I'm currently the vice chair of the Old County Beach WPCA. As you've heard, and I know that you know from many months of hearing from us and hearing from others about this project, a ton of work has been done and a ton of plans for many years has been ongoing. It's taken the resources of the federal government, the state of Connecticut and the beaches themselves to pull together bonds, financings, grant funds. Each of the beaches are signing loan obligations to the state of Connecticut to pay for these sewers. We've done years and years of meetings with the residents explaining the the project impact and cost and benefits. Ultimately, we all agree that the beach is a national treasure, a natural treasure, and a local treasure. It's a reason why we want to be in the beach area and we all enjoy the value of clean water and access to a clean beach. Fortunately, our beaches were not closed recently, despite other beaches in the area having been closed. We all know that during storm events that triggers coliform bacteria incidences and releases. And we feel that we need to do our part. Certainly the state of Connecticut gave us a consent order issuing directives that we do what we can to mitigate the pollution condition coming from septic systems that are inadequate. We've done a ton of work and we ask you, we urge you to please approve this. I think a lot of reasonable effort has gone into making you know, plans and specifications that respond to the fair points of the town. And, you know, we want to work with you as attorney Sharkey indicated, you know, we're here to cooperate with you and we hope that you'll help us to get this going. Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Good evening. My name is Megan Debaldo. My home is at 9 Hartong Place. I just wanted to provide an example. My husband is an electrical contractor. We own our own business as the contractors are family businesses as well. We take pride in everything that we do and to run a project that is cost effective, that it is handled properly as these gentlemen have outlaid. Think of it a different example. You are baking. And every time you need an ingredient, you have eggs, but now you need milk. You have to go to the store to get milk rather than to your pantry. The farther you have to go, the more it costs, the more wear and tear, everything. Having the lay down area close makes it a more productive project. Maybe cutting off some of those 753 days. If they're there, they're working, they're productive, makes it a quicker, cleaner project.

Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Okay.

If there are no additional comments from anyone in the room, then I will ask for a motion to Close the public hearing.

Motion.

Okay, motion by Jane Marsh. Is there a second? Second. Second by Bonnie Reefschneider. Any additional discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Abstain? Okay, motion to close the public hearing is approved 5-0-0. Okay, so let's...

move now to the deliberation.

I have probably a partial list that maybe Denise and a few others might have to help me, but I'll make a motion that we approve their applications for special permits for 250 and 224 Shore Road as lay down areas in accordance with Section 14.9 of our regulations, our new regulations, that the operation is, except for the small area involving the Amtrak site, the site will be worked on from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. daily. The project or the temporary permit is going to be in effect until September 30th, 2027. So that's the duration. The property owners will not be allowed to move forward with any other permits that they have for use of the property until this temporary permit is complete. The property has been restored, meaning the topsoil has been put back and seated and the area is cleaned up of certain trailers and other items that were on the property. The Amtrak site is the only place where night work is going to be allowed to take place. And I guess that's on 250, right?

Well, the Amtrak work itself is off-site, but they're asking permission to stage overnight for the Amtrak work.

Yeah, I was just going to say, you have the hours, 7 to 5, I was going to say no night work. They indicated that they could find another staging place for the night work.

They did, but it's up to you folks whether you want to allow night work or not allow night work. They indicated they would be, if they could not work the stage here, they would find another place to stage it.

All right, well, I'm not going to say that they're going to do it then.

Yeah, no, no, we're just not allowing the night. No night work. No night work. Or night lighting. And no lighting.

No lighting being added to these properties. No hydrant use in connection with the project. No water supply they'll have to bring their own. And we need the topsoil storage area added to the plan for 224 Shore Road. So those are the conditions that I have. So if anybody needs to add any from their own notes, please let me know.

Did we specify if it was Monday through Friday?

I didn't.

I didn't. We didn't specify. We can certainly ask. We can't ask them. I don't think it's particularly limited. I think they're planning to just go straight through.

I put it daily. I didn't put any.

Okay. I don't think the contract contemplates stopping. So I think they're planning to just go as quickly through as they can go through.

I didn't hear any other conditions. Is there anybody at the table that has other conditions they would like me to consider? Bonnie.

I think to the point of the neighbor and concerns that this doesn't impact her house, can there be communication afterwards with immediate neighbors to confirm that there was no damage to their house or their property? I mean, I think it's a valid point when you've got big trucks and a lot of equipment, a lot of material, that there was no overflow. And it's just really asking for communication to confirm that.

Should we put the condition in that the contractors shall be obligated to contact immediate neighbors upon completion of the project for any concerns?

This is so close that I think it's a fair request.

Okay, so contractors at the completion of the project. At the completion of the project.

What if something is occurring while the project is underway? Will that be incumbent upon the neighbor to come to us?

At that point, someone's going to need to contact me, and I'll make sure things get done.

Okay. Okay.

But again, Mike, I think Bonnie has it right, at the end of the project, once they're backing up and going away, at that point, our leverage is going to be diminished. So we need to put the affirmative burden on them to consult with the neighbors prior to backing up and moving away.

Okay. So the one thing I would say, you know, they've got the erosion sediment controls on the plan, which are adequate from a water drainage perspective, but that they should also include managing for dust. that they should add dust control. They may not need it. If we have a drought all summer, they may need it. If we don't have, sometimes you need it, sometimes you don't, but they should plan for dust control and it should be on the plan as needed. So what would that be structurally? A lot of times it's not structure. A lot of times they'll spray down the yard What do we have to put on the plant? Yeah, well, that's what they'll say. Dust control will include, and they should just add. So add dust control features to the police plant. Yeah, because they've got a narrative on the erosion sediment control plan, and they should just add dust control features to that.

Dust control features, okay, dust control features to plan. I didn't finish.

They can touch base with Fossett O'Neill if they need to figure it out.

I didn't complete the Bonnie Reams Snyder suggestion. I wrote contractor completion of project to make sure neighboring property, what?

Property owners are consulted for any outstanding.

To ensure that there's no damage has been sustained or.

Outstanding negative impacts. Okay. Regarding negative.

Regarding outstanding.

I like that.

That's good. Regarding outstanding negative impacts.

I want to say to property.

Yeah.

Right. Right.

To property. Okay.

The contract, a completion of project to make sure neighboring property owners are consulted regarding outstanding impacts to their property. Okay.

Yep. All right.

Anything else?

There was one note the fire marshal suggested that they consult with the town of Old Lyne and find that. Recommend that you reach out to Old Lyne Public Works Director for guidance and recommendation as they may pertain to roadside excavation, dewatering, and traffic control management.

Is that something that needs to, I guess my question on that one, is that something that needed to be added? Is that already on the permit in terms of the...

It definitely is. And remember, most of these roads are either private roads or state. So there's very little in the way of town roads involved in what we're doing here. So there's a limit to what our roadmap works.

We're not permitting that. activity. I mean, unless we're amending the permit. We're only permitting the lay-down yards, and that's... So his comment is outside of what we're permitting. The dewatering is taking place on these sites. The dewatering is taking place with the putting sewers in.

As Mindy said, the only thing we're looking at tonight is 224-250, and the only sort of coming out there is going to be essentially a on this state highway. So I'm not sure there's much really more we can do with this.

So I mean, I think he should be coordinating all the activity with the town. But that's not this condition we'll get to.