Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

her. Um, I'm going to seat when Deb comes in. I'll seat her for Michael and I'll seat Chris for Rob. Okay. Um, welcome to the regular schedule meeting of the signing commission for June 12th, 2025. On our agenda, we have the pledge of pledge of allegiance and then new business is the referral from zoning commission petition to amend the zoning regulations, special permit uses permitted in the C30 and the C30S zones section 5.10.3 and update from our zoning enforcement officer regarding Buttonball Road storm water detention bases. And of course, our highlight of the evening is the reading and approval of minutes for a regular schedule meeting April 10th, 2025. With that, let's begin with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States to the stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay, the referral is for the zoning commission and basically we are asked to take a look and see if this review is consistent with the plan of conservation and development and I've gone through the POC as well as Allan and so one of the things I was looking at is on there's some copies of the PCD if you want to look at it but on Uh thank you. Thank you. Um first go to page 24 of the O line economic development commission and they talked about um leveraging ex its existing ass assets for economic development and they talked

about Oline national amenities support outdoor recreation build arts and cultural traditions. Encourage local businesses as well as small homebased businesses. create experience centered dining, clarify regulation process, facilitate growth of the type and character desired for the town, and facilitate growth of supply chain and demographic supports. It says nothing about gas stations. Um on page 25, it also talks about um neighborhood and seasonal commercial uses and services should be allowed in commercial locations along Route One and Laysville area and along Shore Road in 156. Again, uh neighborhood and seasonal commercial uses. And so that really doesn't again relate to, you know, gas stations. And then we go to page 26, policies. Future development should be consistent with smalltown atmosphere of OIM, including both physical settings and sense of community. And then number item number three on the bottom of page 26, we're talking about commercial development should be compatible in scale and appearance with town character and design to serve the retail and service needs of the residents. Commercial uses and their expansion should be limited to three commercial areas. Paul's Road, Lazville Center, and Shore Road from Mile Creek eastward to Son View area. Um, as we have discussed, um, basically we have four gas stations in town. We have two in the Lazville area. Uh, they're less than a quarter of a mile apart. We have one on Halls Road that has been newly renovated. And we have one in the Sound View area that's also fairly new within I think the last five years. Um I'm not sure that we really, you know, we're not really addressing

the need for, you know, additional gas stations anywhere in the town of B line. Um, and as a reminder, when we make a decision on this, we need to reference the POCD so that we're demonstrating consistency with or against it. That being said, any thoughts, Howard? Um, well, just I mean going forward too, I'm not sure how many gas stations if you look into the future really going to need. Um, so I don't really see a need for it. I know my concern would be that the properties that are for sale, say on B Road, are being marketed more toward the highway than to the needs of old lime and that could result in gas stations or other things that we necessarily would not find desirable. So I don't think there's a need for everyone now or in the future. Welcome Deb. Item being seated for Michael. We just we're discussing the first item on the agenda, the referral from zoning commission petition to amend the zoning regulations that talks about deleting the text of retailers dealer stations for sale and motor vehicle floats as specified in 5.9.3 to address your point. the the particulars of impetus that drove the zoning commission to act suddenly now um was a rumor, true or not, that the condo spaces at 100 Falls Road were going to be bought and turned into a Cumberland Farms gas station. Um and zoning didn't

seem to think that was what they wanted at that location. So, they put forward this amendment to remove that possibility from that. So that's that that's what why why you're getting this now. I see. Um and again up to you folks whether you think that that's consistent with the PCD or not. But again the the thought was whether it was a truck stop or CL farms or whatever else that Paul's road is is not really suited for that sort of activity and being between two exits there's there was a fear that that was likely to come in at some point in the near future. question. Uh, in order for a gas station or a motor vehicle fuel depot or whatever you call them, to be approved today, does not that require a special It would require a special permit. Yes, it would. Yes. So, the zoning commission at that time could deny that application. they could deny it, but again they recognized that the um Chestnut Market thing they had denied that one three times went to court. Eventually the court overruled the zoning commission and approved it and it got built. So there was a fear that even if they denied it that they would go to court and eventually a judge would approve it anyway. That makes sense. All right. Thank you very much. So does this include said motor vehicle fuels. Does this include charging stations? Charging stations are dealt well separately. Well, as a motor vehicle fuel, well, we don't considered a fuel under our rigs because we have a separate rig designed to deal with charging stations. Um, so yeah, argue I mean we can you can argue the point, I guess, but as of right now, um, fuels do not seem to include, at least as our regulations interpret it, um, electricity. Um and again maybe going forward we're going to need to adjust that but um again we have a separate regulation dealing with charging stations and how they get put

in and we have a separate regulation dealing with you motor vehicle fuels at the moment at least um those are those are treated as separate categories. So hypothetically, you know, you we're doing this to block a Cland Farms, but say Tesla could put a charging station in their convenience store and that would be allowed. Theoretically allowed. I mean, right now the regs read such that if you are adding any commercial use of more than 30 spaces, you have to put in electrical vehicle chargers, right? Um and we offer the opportunity with using just essentially a zoning permit to put in two or fewer at any location in town. More or less three or more require special permit. So at the moment, you know, we have provisions that allow commercial sites to put in two or fewer, you know, basically, you know, one or two electrical charging stations almost anywhere. Um I don't see that changing at the moment. Um and again we're going through the revisions of the regs and maybe going forward we're going to change it further but at the moment the the reg is relatively permissive towards electrical vehicle electric charging stations and again the goal was not to have future gasoline stations your thoughts. I think uh there there will never be another in my view another mom and pop like we're supposed to do familyowned stuff and Greybel's got the only one and I that's a he's got a pretty good niche market going there and Laysville but that's kind of an accessory mix also but to have somebody I mean you are that list of gas stations that I went through,

they were all run by a family selling gas. And the markup on on gas to mark the profit margin on gas is pretty small. They make a lot more money when you go in and buy $4 cup of coffee than they do on the fill up for the tank of gas. So, the only gas station that I can see ever coming to Old Lime would be another convenience store gas station combination. And I'm not It's just a statement that you're not going to I don't think you're going to put any mom and pop outfit out of business by enacting this rule because there's not enough money in to make it work, right? And just the cost of tanks, insurance, that's a whole another ball. I mean, the reason that they really went bonkers on outlaw gas stations was because in the old days they were steel tanks, single wall. They didn't have much monitoring. There's no rule about when you replace them. And nowadays to own a gas station, the only people that are going to own them really are going to be the big boys because they are they are a bugger to keep up with the rules. Yeah. So, I don't see that this is really going to hurt our opportunity to get gas. I don't see that it's going to hinder somebody who wants to be in the gas station business except for big boys. Yeah. So that's Yeah, that's just my opinion. Appreciate it. Thank you, Dad. Um 100% with Miss Magnick on that. Um I know when I was on Hall's Road, there was talk back then about uh or rumor I should say about Cumberland Farms wanting to buy that space. Um,

and I feel like doing this is somewhat of a protection because we are an off-ramp of a state highway and everybody knows the traffic on that road. Um, when the sun is shining is intense and it would just give more truck traffic to Halls Road. Anything else? Do I have a motion? Okay. So, just to be clear here, what you're doing is reporting back to the zoning commission on whether this is consistent or inconsistent with the plan of conservation development. So, the motion needs to be framed in the sense of it's consistent or inconsistent and some very basic reasons why it would be consistent or consistent. Again, Harold before you came in recited a bunch of issues from the PCD while he believed it was consistent with the PC. So then for the plan of PO POC states that we should especially support you know family small operations this does not hinder that. So if somebody's going to make a motion that so we're not cross a POCD there. And as far as where I don't think it hurts anything. I could just make a motion right that the zoning commission's recommendation is consistent with the PC district. Therefore, make a motion that we vote in favor of in favor of the deletion of the text. All right. Do I have a second? I'll second. I would like to add an addendum to that to say that um

any commercial development in these areas is to be consistent limited commercial areas of Halls Road, Laysville Center and Shaw Road from Mile Creek to Sandu area and also that we are um recommending that so that any commercial development is consistent with keeping with the town's revision as stated within this current. If it's fine with me, I have a second on that. Second it. All right. Any further discussion? Will we be getting things like this from time to time as the revision keeps going? Well, no, this was done separately and sort of a in some ways as an emergency issue there because there was a fear as you said of Cumble arms coming in and they wanted to just get this into the books. Okay. This will be translated into the new rags as you have them. We're not ready to give you the new rags yet. You'll get them probably in another month or two. Okay. Um but no, you're not going to get peacemeal sections of it. You're going to get the whole new block of rags. I mean, time to digest them. But no, again, there was a again sort of this momentary fear that Cumberland Farms was coming. We had to do something and that's what this is in reaction to. Thank you. We have a motion and an addendum to the motion. That's been They'll both been seconded. Um, do we have any further discussion? Howard, Chris? All right. Not hearing any further discussion. Let's go for a vote. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Hearing none. Let the record show that

the vote is unanimous and it pass. All right. used to air. You're a uh button ball. Okay. Um per the agreement that you guys entered into, it was supposed to have been completed as of the 31st of May. Um starting very early in May, I started letting Reagan know, I need a schedule. I need to know when this is happening. You got to get take care of this. And then basically nothing. And then finally some some snide comments back about it. you essentially start, stop harassing me, I'll get it done. Um, and then it did happen into beginning of June. Um, per the plan, it was supposed to have a silk fence which was not installed until I threatened to stop all permits until it was installed. Um, and so finally it's there. Um whether it matches the plan that was proposed by Sheamus Moran, I don't know yet because according to their attorney, they have 45 days to give me an AS bill. Um and we're into that period now. Um the the challenge at the moment seems to be this. the neighbors particularly at 31 and 33 um button ball really wanted the silt fences to make sure that no one particularly their kids fell into the holes while the holes were just basically mud holes. Um they are now seated. They are they have put hay down but the salt fences seem to block some of the water coming off of the road into the holes. So, the most recent um storm we had over this past weekend, there was still flooding on Hall's Road because water that would have otherwise gone into these basins didn't because the sil fencing was there. Um I seemed, you know, in talking with Ed Dante, our public works director, he seems to

believe that in the absence of those s fences that these detention basins will work as designed. And before the sil fences were up when it rained, they did seem to catch the water. So hopefully the silt fences are a temporary measure until the grass grows in and situation stabilizes. Once they come out again, hopefully the situation there will be as designed. Um I will await the asbuilt from Sheamus Moran confirming that it did get built as designed. Um it has sort of left me distrustful or even more distrustful of Mr. Reagan since I had to sort of wrestle him to get it done. Um, but here we are. How about putting down mats instead of a silk fence? Um, a straw w the grass will grow in a week. Hopefully the silk fences won't be there long. And again, the only reason I was able to get the silk fences at all is because I showed him on his own plan. You show silk fences, they're not there. Make it happen. Madding is not on the on the plan. So, my ability to get that when it's not on the plan, I I don't know. I can certainly ask. Um, but again, hopefully given the weather, given whatever, the grass will come in quickly and then this old fences will come down and we'll be will be set. Um, it has been a process. Um, and we still need to again make sure that the common driveway that goes up to the house in the back there together with a detention basin in front of that common driveway are built to the plan because that's probably where we're going to get most of the new water if in fact these detention basins work as they're supposed to work. Um, right now that detention basin is full of mud. Um my second question are these retention bases being filled up by all the Well, the ones on the road are going to be maintained by our public works department once they are established. So

theoretically, Ed will be in charge of keeping those in good shape. The one that I am particularly worried about is on the other side of the stone wall on one of the properties with a common driveway. Um theoretically that is to be maintained by the property owner. um it's not going to be uh cheap to maintain and I've already put the other property owners that have rain gardens on notice that they'll be responsible for maintaining their rain gardens. Um so the the enforcement obligation on my part is to make sure the property owners do what they're supposed to do. The other piece of this is that the driveway, the common driveway going up to the two properties in the rear has to be pitched so that the water flows into that ring the the the tension basin there. Um I don't think at the moment it is properly pitched. So before we issue any cos for those buildings, I need to confirm that the driveway is built as designed in their own plans because again the only way all this is going to work is if every piece of the puzzle is working as designed because otherwise it's ledge and as we've seen over the last year it is prone to flooding unless you have the adequate drainage basins in there. So, it's going to be continued pressure on my part to make sure that we're keeping it in good working order. Um, aside from that, any projections and how long this is going to continue? Well, again, hopefully hopefully the patient basins will be as designed and will progress and we'll be okay. Um he's finishing up on his last three houses at the moment. And so I'm expecting he's going to be coming in for cos on the two in the back in the next um few weeks, maybe a month or two because I see them

on Zillow as being marketed. He's he's trying to sell them. Um so yeah, my my big lever is going to be the CEO when he goes to try and sell them and say, is it are they is the driveway bolts designed and and prove it. Um but beyond that um it should be at least the initial stage of it completed within the next couple of months. The trick is going to be on my part making sure that all of these detention facilities are maintained going forward because again that detention basin on the private lot if it's not maintained we're going to get water on the road again because that's where it's all pooling right now. Okay. Thank you. Any questions from anyone? Okay. Thank you. All right. Next item on the agenda is the reading and approval of minutes for the meeting April 10th, 2025. I would like to make a motion that we accept the minutes as posted on the old line town website. Second. All right. Any further discussion? All in favor signify by saying I. I. Thank you. Unanimous. I'd like to make a motion that we adjourn. Do I have a second? Yep. All favor. I Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Appreciate your time.