Parks & Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, I think it's six o'clock, so I'm going to call the meeting to order. Uh the April 2 regular park meeting and uh we have Ryan here, Miss Mary Ellen, myself, Don, Tim is on the telephone, correct? Tim, you still here? Yeah. Okay.

And Sarah just called in. She's in a meeting. She can't uh call in or be here. And I don't know about Brendan. We'll find out. Okay, that's the attendance. Uh now previous meeting which I had missed uh uh and apparently with a very good name. Brendan Brendan's here. Uh uh especially we have our guest speaker uh who's an expert on Canadian Canada goose population.

Yeah. Well, too bad the Well, we'll get to it later, but the ging but she be she's a wonderful resource to have. Uh okay. Uh so uh let's please approve the previous meeting minutes. Uh I was not here for that but you guys were here most of you and um I saw the meeting minutes and I hope fine. Anybody have questions or suggestions or comments on this make a motion to approve. Okay. Uh all those in favor I

anyone opposed? fellow stain. Maybe I abstain, but I wasn't that official way to do it. Okay. Uh I I sorry, but boy oh boy, I've also missed the second big snowtorm to get down Florida Keys. Yeah. But uh Okay. Uh all right. So the vents have been approved. Uh uh X1 director's report of programs and facilities please.

All right. Um programs current and ongoing programs include men's basketball, women's basketball, adult co-ed volleyball, co-ed bad mitten, and zoom and fitness. uh spring and summer programs including day camp, afterare, uh basketball camps, volleyball camp, and the pickle ball sessions are all in the planning station stages. Uh adult softball is scheduled to run on Sundays, April 19th through May 31st, 4 to 6:30 p.m. at Towns Park. And as previously reported, our CAS soccer camp is scheduled to run August 3rd through 7th at Townwoods Park. and registration opened up uh yesterday for uh the currently available summer programs facilities. All building facilities remain closed and will be open when weather permits. The the water is now scheduled to be turned on early next week. Tried to get it by this week, but it did make that uh at Hannes Park, Towns Park, and Cross Lane Park. Satisfactory state of Connecticut water test results are required prior to opening Payne's Park and Towns Park. So, that'll be a little bit later after the water gets turned on and I'll provide you updates when we get them. Uh, the tennis and pickle ball nets have been reinstalled and the courts are in use down lane. Uh, some miscellaneous items. The process of determining the 26 summer staff is still in process. All 2025 summer staff have been contacted and have indicated whether they'll be returning or not. This obviously determines how many new hires will be required and we are discussing and reorganizing the staff at our day camp to better suit our needs. Um, the new revised employment applications are

now available on on the daycap for prospective day camp staff, lifeguards, and parking lot attendance to complete and send in. Our camp setup, organization, and training days are scheduled for June 22nd through 26th. On June 24th, our counselors will take part in a training provided by Kerma. Uh this training education program will cover various areas of camp council responsibilities to help ensure a safe secure environment at camp. Uh region 18 rowing has started their spring season in Hannes Park. There are currently five race events scheduled to be held at Rogers Lake. These are on April 8th, 11th, 18, 22, and 29. Uh the Connecticut River lacrosse club has started their spring season at Town Park. Uh, Lime Lime Little League has started their spring season at Cross Lane and Town was Park. Uh, the Lime Lime soccer providing details of what their spring schedule needs are. Homestead Landscaping LLC. The owner is Duncan Cummings, was selected and signed to a three-year Towns Park grounds maintenance contract on March 12th. Uh, Mr. Cummings worked for the previous contractor for the last 11 years as well versed in the daily requirements for the parks maintenance and we had uh four bids received for that contract. That's a good thing there I think.

Excellent to get the guy that's been working there already for what 11 years you said? Yeah, that's the White Sand Beach. Good job, Don. Uh doing that process.

The White Sand Beach Pavilion project has not yet started. is slightly behind schedule already. The town is waiting for the bond requirements to be completed and the signed contract to be presented. It was hoped to be presented by today. As of this afternoon, I had not arrived yet. After this process is completed, public works will demolish and remove the current gazebo and the dunes constructed prior to the winter season will then be pushed back down. Beach area will reestablish. project is still expected to be completed by early May. Um, today I had a meeting with Peter Hunt and Bob Concasia, representatives of Cowwoods Park Blue Share Garden, uh, to discuss the needs for the upcoming season. It is expected that the project will once again produce a significant amount of vegetables. Last season, over three tons of vegetables were produced and distributed, and we'll give updates as they go. I also had a meeting today time was parked with Tim Griald and Cheryl Pierard, representatives of America 250 committee and Karen Gesler who represent the Lions Club to discuss the upcoming Townwood townwide picnic schedule for Sunday July 5th at Townwoods Park will be provided. That's my report for the that part. But yeah, that's how it goes before a big picnic party down park. And I believe uh because I'm with the Lions Club that the Lions also are going to be there buying hamburgers and hot dogs.

Yeah. Yeah. Just so be a good thing to go hope you're around. I have one question. Uh Don, you said the uh the black guys are out the lacrosse guys are out there practicing. Did you get any feedback to find out whether or not valley people have got somebody to agree to have some practice some games? The feedback was yes that's that's happening. I don't have the exact numbers to to give you as far where where they are but I was assured that that was taking place. Beautiful. Finally. Well, I have some of the nicest people. They're all tart fields. Yeah. Amazing. They're so visible. They're beautiful.

Yeah. You see them? Oh, yeah. My friends. Oh, okay. All right. So, that's wonderful. They're stepping by.

Yeah, that's the only question I have for Don. Uh, anybody have question for him? But like I said, excellent job getting a guy has experience 11 years out there at Towns Park. Uh someone we don't really know and I'm sure he'll do a great job too. Okay. Uh next thing is uh uh some mobile business. Uh the PLC Hayes Park I know cleared up about a week and a half ago with our lights down there and everything. So, did anybody have any news or this this is what I got. Yeah.

Um, obviously the playground materials were delivered to public works in January. Um, materials are stored there until the installation this spring. Uh, Dave Catalano and I expected materials on Wednesday, April 1st. And right now the commission needs to decide and initiate the project plan going forward for installation. But up plan, but isn't there a plan already with with the timing and who's going to do what exactly? And

okay, who would like to uh be the point person for that? Anybody volunteer? This is to try to plan a schedule or is it also like placement? That's placements has been decided. That was decided. So they just want us to Well, I just think that we need to figure out when it's going to happen. But who but but somebody else is providing labor together. But there was a plan timing. We don't know when when's it going to go in. Oh, just All I've ever heard was springtime. Oh, okay.

Do we have anything against it going in as soon as possible? Well, I have no problem. So, what are the steps to take to get it to be? The only thing Dave said was probably cuz I told him what I was going to say tonight and goes, "Let's try to get something started by the end of April." There you go. We got Oh, it's got to be got to be dry weather. And uh actually next week looks good. Not going to rain. So, well, I know that, but I'm just saying probably is when they project how long to take to do it.

Does it have to be dry weather? It does. It doesn't have to be, but And and who's getting the the wood fiber chips? This is this is the type of stuff that somebody needs to make sure we're all on the same page because it's going to be railroad ties or if it's if it's going to be left up to me or dropped in my my pocket, I kind of have a problem with that because I'm pretty busy on other stuff.

I I get that. Okay. Anybody volunteer to work uh with Dave Catalano and and maybe Don could I can be involved with it, but I'm not taking the lead on it. I'd rather not take the lead entails literally just micromanaging when people are getting it done. Yes. Who Who's doing the wood chips? Are we getting those or is that From what I remember, Don? Correct me if I'm wrong. The the the town crew is going to do the wood chip. That was suggested by Martha, I believe, if my memory is right.

I'd be happy to set up a meeting with Don from here, Martha, Dave to all sit down and talk about the process. That'd be great because I think all you have to do is get Martha to tell the public works, which is a difficult assignment. uh that Martha will tell whatever decide doing uh probably I don't know the timing on that would that go in after the all the other stuff is put in right D I think that that's what can be discussed at the meeting

yeah well they would probably be expert on that so Martha Dave and Don and I C A T A L A N O. Okay. Uh and maybe if you could set that meeting up next week sometime to talk about that would be great to see. I think it's just a matter of just coordinating because I don't think any of us have to be there to come here. Uh, and so maybe we should have the facilities uh, director here also with that. Don, what do you think? I talked I talked to him about it.

Yeah. What his involvement might be and he said he's willing to help out with whatever. He's not going to take the project, but he was there when we had earlier meetings on the location.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. He because eventually once that's put in, then we have to buy we may have to pay somebody to put in a a path from the parking lot. uh ADA pan and the best one that I recall that we talked about was putting in the reinforced grass mesh stuff underneath and uh if public works that would be a good one to bring up too at the meeting this see uh if public works could do that if we could supply the material they could do that because then Martha could give them the job I don't know they're they can do that but if not we'll have to hire somebody to do that. But we have funds uh the Hayes Park fund to use uh money in order to do that because once it's installed, we have to get an ADA path from the parking lot because the parking lot is considered uh ADA. And someone was commenting about I don't think we have to have a parking spot there because parking lot is also ADA compliant.

Okay. Well, that's good. So, Missy, uh if you can maybe uh Jeff, uh when you have a meeting, just give us some synopsis of what happened at the meeting. All the people on parking recognition. So if there's any problem, give me a call out. Okay. Well, that'd be nice. That's wonderful. Uh and the resource guy is um will probably be there because he he helped us plan out the uh facilities resource facilities facil facilities director. Who was that? Eric.

Eric. Eric by Mother Eric. Eric. Okay. Missy, thank you. Step the plate on that. As we talk about stepping to the plate, there's more softball infield update. Anything about how we can make that infield a little bigger.

I spoke to them a week or so ago. Um they plan on completing the work shortly. Um, they also questioned whether the infield on the baseball field out there could be skinned out to allow that field to be used by additional teams. So, I said I would talk to you guys about that. I personally don't have a problem with that. Less grass mass of that skirt like a softball. So, they're basically making they don't want the grass in the infield. They just they they

asked they asked if they could skin out the infield which means removing the grass to make it like a softball field out infield to be used by um more kids of a different variety of kids and it's less us mowing and is that across little is that allowed by the little league for that whatever the 12 year olds or whatever is that allowed play just quite a few games that worn out. Yeah, but I think it can be

the one which are back field. Yeah. So they're So I was curious about this. So I guess they are still doing it because we don't we don't have an old line team. We actually paired up with East Line for this season for the age group that was going to use that bigger field. Gosh. What age group is that? It's like seniors. What What is that? 13 to 15 basically. That used to be Bab League,

but they don't call it that anymore. No, this the team that Bulldime is paired with East Lime on which um through Little League through Little League because like all these travel teams have basically wiped out Bab. Oh, and they don't play at like field or but it's like basically the old line kids. We thought we could get enough kids to form a team but we just couldn't. So there was an East Lion team that needed kids. So he kind of like got absorbed into their Okay. So would that mean that they were just practicing playing over there? Yeah. All right. I'll ask I'll contact them tomorrow. Matt just texted me back and said they're still planning on doing it.

But will they be able to have official games on that? That's my because at every baseball field you see grass in the middle with the That would be my question about that back field, but it sounds like I mean I guess I'm I'm not 100% sure, but I'm like a 13 to 15. It sounds like what they're asking to do on the back field is remove all the grass from the infield of the little league size field, right? But I don't know if they're planning to make the dirt bigger. No, just remove basically just turn it into a softball and take the mound out. Yeah. Well, as long as I use a portable mount for Yeah, dirt and fields according to Little League. What's that?

You can play on a dirt and field. Okay. Don, did they say um I mean, do they have the uh the machinery to do that? Yeah, I think so. And do you have the clay? Does the town have the clay? I have I like I told them I said I'm not paying for something that some idea they have. They said they have money. I said I have money in there to supplement infield material somebody comes up and hands me a $20,000 bill for whatever I'm not paying it. No, of course not. One last thing for me, Don. Like is is there a real need for this, do you think? According to them, yes. I personally don't know.

But if you have one of these fields out at Calwoods Park, why do you need a second field like that with a big with a big dirt in field? I don't I don't get the need to remove the grass from the back field. I don't I don't either. I thought the whole point was to do that to the softball field so that the older kids could play there. I don't Yeah, I guess I I haven't been out there this spring to walk that field, but I guess the condition of the infield grass is not all that hot and they thought it would be easier just to remove it and and eliminate that. I have a question. Yeah.

Can So baseball can play on a dirt infield, but can softball play on aggressive field? No. So So they wouldn't change the field at at cross lane, but they would This is the one way back there that has grass. Okay. I mean, Ryan, do people play on that field? Baseball? Yeah.

Yeah. There's games all the time right now because there's Okay. Major now basically three line 11 teams and it has been the past two years of beast. So that's too many games to only have my cross line. So I mean is baseball complaining about the status of the grass? I don't know when we play there I guess wrong. Um you know base if it's a baseball field and baseball is not complaining about the grass in other words we got to do something here. I don't know and it's being used for baseball. Why would we want to equip one field like that down there? Why would we have to have two fields? You're in the game, so I don't know.

Yeah, there is no argument that by skinning this front field, making it bigger that there's going to be some massive demand for that field size because there's we literally don't even have a team. Yeah, we thought we would and then we would need a place to practice. Can I make a suggestion? Yes, go ahead. I don't see but go ahead. Well, what what I would suggest is instead of them going and I'm not criticizing, but instead of them going to Don, maybe they need to come to the next meeting to answer some of these questions for us and then we get a better sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to be doing. What do you think? You're the one involved. I don't think it makes sense to turn that back field into a softball field. Okay.

I do I do understand even though we don't have a team right now still making the front field possible to play on. Yeah. Bigger kids. We have no field alive to the playoffs. Well, and we were like at a disadvantage because we didn't if we had a field, we could have had other kids come to us and been the home team, but because we didn't have that field, we had to go somewhere else. Oh, yeah. So, they were called water or something like that because first we went to Salem, but then we that got split up. Now we're in deep climb. But we could have had a situation where another town had

Yeah. you know, poor kid, we couldn't take an airport on our team. Okay. I think this is Brendan's ideas is what we should go with and and and let's investigate that further because I don't see no reason to do it on both wheels. Uh does it have to is there a is there a world and that they don't have to wait until our next meeting that they this could be discussed over like email or do they have to I'm going to contact Matt tomorrow to pass on this information. That's all I'm getting from him. Yeah. And a little bit from the other day from Chris Canal.

I think so. Missy, you're involved in these older kids too now with your kids. I mean, Ryan, you're involved and Okay. And and Ryan gave his opinion. It doesn't seem really why the second feel how Tom Woods should really have to do this. What do you think? Yeah, I mean I don't it unless they're admittedly turning it into a softball field for the girls program. I feel like I don't understand why I think to say it's less mowing doesn't seem just because of less mowing was to make the field multi-use I guess

or or Yeah, I heard the other complaint they said the grass wasn't that great. Our new grass our new uh maintenance person could enrich the grass a little bit there. If we take a step back right now, there's there's two little league softball field, two little league baseball fields and two softball fields that we use for little league. The front one is bigger than I think a normal field. Why would you take away a baseball field? I don't know. I would want to do it. Yeah. Why? Especially and then require a portable mount to be dragged out there or whatever for we we had that before. the portable fence that they wanted out there for a while and that was a disaster.

Yeah. Okay. I I don't really see this as well. He's really only talked to Don, you know. I think it's it's nice to hear from why they feel this or Ryan if you can maybe with that tool because you've seen that pretty I didn't talk I I just saw Matt an hour ago but I didn't talk to him. I just like I can tell them like you should come to the Are you really gung-ho on this? No, you I just throw them over. Oh, okay. Well, they're not gum. I don't see I think if they were gumbo, they would come to a meeting. Well, and like one thing at a time. Let's deal with the other field first. Yeah. Why are you know they got to do that to the other field and then the work has been done, but let's jump to the next.

Yeah, let's see what happens once we do that at the other field and then see if it's really loud or serious. Could you make I thought he was pretty serious and just the way he talked to me. Again, I I don't know that was on any league meetings or anything, but I thought it was kind of the way that LY wanted to go. Okay. I I think they just I think what we come up with to move on is that we if they really want to go with this, they should come to our next meeting. We're not going to have a meeting just for them, but we should wait to see how it goes once they do it to that first deal. Is there really a need? Well, maybe they're thinking while the machinery is there and everything. They could be.

Yeah. I mean, how do you get on the agenda? They have to reach out to you to do that to ask to get on the agenda. Either me or they should do that. Yeah. I might That's That's my thought. I think they should especially since we have two people here involved in a little league that quite can't comprehend why we really need that on both fields. I think that's what what we should do. Okay. Do you got it? No, I will I will say that um they're doing a golf fundraiser thing and that they're poisoning it as to raise money for lights on the baseball. So, so I was just going to say I give Lily credit because they're very ambitious.

But weren't we here like three years ago talking about the lights? Never happened with that. They did they did horrible lights last year. I remember no one complained. Yeah. The one neighbor didn't complain. Yeah. Um I think they had come to ask us about lights. They did. I don't think we ever said we're not we're opposed to it already. No, I think they did. They were looking into Right. They were going to get it. I didn't know what ever happened with that. I think they're starting to try to raise money for it. All right. Cross. Yeah. Yeah. Cross because I I know there's tremendous resistance when that was brought up many years ago. Yeah. Around Talin's Park. And I think there's been a lot of resistance at schools doing that.

My understanding in town woods is that the the grant or whatever is written into it that it can never have lights. I thought you told us that. I thought there's some stipulation about how Tom Woods Park was built that it can never have lights. No. No, that's not true. No, that's not true. How much that didn't we? That was just when we we circulated that idea that there was a lot of resistance from people that I think the resistance was more not for the lights. It was for lots of people playing late into the evening down here besides the light pollution because down when you're just down across lane it's just for one spot one

I do think like light pollution is not really a thing anywhere. I know better. They didn't want them in their window. I It was But again, the people that live right next to the field one on the left there, they put all their trees down. He was not the previous owner of that house was the biggest proponent of it. Okay. But he's that guy moved out when we built the park. He sold his house. Well, the people that live there now, they want to be in the park. Yeah. It's so weird, right? It's so over either. No, no. Okay. Whatever. Okay.

Mr. Wilson was on the board today. He passed. Okay. Okay. We uh we we move on. So, they can come. You're gonna talk to Matt a little bit. Yes. And maybe mention that Missy, do we want them to invite him? Tell them you don't want No, don't. I'm not against it. I just don't understand it. Well, let me just tell them that mission of the questions come to them. They want to talk to contact either Donna or myself to be put on the agenda for the Well, I agree with Missy's thinking too. Well, I think we should too. Part of that should be wait and see how it goes with the first.

I think that's the most logical way to do it. And if if it really works out that they really need it, they can always do it for next season. But I don't think they're going to need it for this season for one year. Well, not that they're waiting till the May May meeting to talk to us about it's not happening for this season ends in beginning of June. You know, it's not Yeah, I don't see I don't see the the necessity or reason for it personally. So, how are we leaving it? Are we Who's to them to see if they want to come here or I can reach out to Nancy Marble. Yeah. And that we don't really see the deed for it. Why? Why shouldn't we wait to see how it works out the first field if there's really a need?

I thought I wouldn't do that. I would just reach out to him and say we have questions and we want to talk about it, not say Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Okay. All right. Uh, next one. Uh, goose mitigation. Okay. Maybe uh you guys can make comment. I know that Denise was here and I heard positive things about it. So, we got the the memo on March 24th. Uh I think Don circulated to everybody about how she said she she doesn't feel that we should be training anyone to do it with the Indian flu this year. Everybody got that? Yeah.

It wasn't just her. It was a D. Right. Right. Right. Right. So I I guess that's that's put off by these next year. But she's from what I hear a tremendous resource. You made one film. You get very good. You learned a lot. I saw some of the slides. So look great. I I thought I thought she was great. I I learned so much about it a lot. But I will say this. I I didn't leave there thinking that there's no way that it's ever going to work because that what they said. Well, no. I I left there thinking because she educated so much. She was very educational about the goose itself.

It's a resilient animal and it's not going to work. That's I'm being fatalistic, but that's part of my takeaway from it. Now, h having said that, she was awesome and it's worth a try if people are willing to volunteer to do it. I Yeah, I don't think I don't think it's going to work either. Oh, because uh they multiply. U is just go on private property and it's over. And my assumption is is that because they're survivors, they will. Yeah. And and I think unless unless we get all the nests in town, you're not going to see.

It's it's Yeah. Because over at the horse place they had nest and there probably cross lane by neighbor's house right by the pulse road like but I said they were successful. Yes. Welled and she did. She said that it worked in hopeful to me and that I agree. I I have the same and and I and I say last year compared to the previous couple of years they weren't as bad but we did a few other things. We we had the coyotes, we had the the scram, which she says the coyotes she said the coyotes don't work.

She said none of it works except that one. Oh, what happened with the with the crazy robot they have across the street? Did they ever get that stuff? You don't know. Nothing works. Huh? You have to add all the eggs and decrease the population over the course of several years. Yeah, several years have to create an unfavorable environment for them to raise their young and then they eventually maybe will move maybe. But if we do nothing, it's just going to keep getting worse. Like we have had baseball practices on the cross field. It is absolutely disgusting. It's disgusting. We're hitting ground balls. Baseballs are rolling through crap. The kids are picking them up. It's disgusting. It's very unhealthy. No, I I will say this everywhere

and I'm not I'm not advocating it, but it if my recollection is correct, the only reason why we didn't go down the path of eradication was because of blowback. Right now, that doesn't mean you cannot eradicate is my understanding. So, I don't if all Look, I'm an animal person, but I don't know why I should that still be on the table. Uh I think uh it won't be with with the government guys we had because they're not allowed to do any of that stuff now under the current presidential administration. So until Yeah, because remember because of the migratory bird act or something.

Uh no because that was just they sever just like doge severely cut a lot of people. That was one of the programs that was cut off to do that. We'll just we'll assume that that you know federal government aside. But am I wrong though in in that assumption that you can't just eradicate or that you can still I think she strongly suggested going with the program so humane society endorsed yes but was it because of the blowback though? Yes.

Fair enough. And and I agree and I don't want to face that heat either. But I'm just throwing out there that to Ryan's point, something has to be done. The plan that was proposed is going to take several years to have maybe to have some type of impact. And so, is it just spinning our wheels? It's worth asking that question, I think. And if the answer is eradication, I don't know. I'm not for it. But the kids are rumaging around in feal matter. It's that's a reality, too. Hey, what are those fields?

It's It's not just a problem. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. They were going the grass around playing on it. We went to Rocky the other day for a while. I've never seen before. We was so much. We just had a baseball practice on Veterans Field yesterday and I'm looking around there wasn't a single goose poop on this field and I said to the coach like how is this possible like our field you could barely see grass through the poop

and he said that the ground beepers or something had been down there for hours with leaf blowers blowing it off the field. Dan Jones has done that part what it takes like it takes a lot. It seems like it would department that's got you know like public works and it's parks. Gotcha. Okay. So they have that must be who does it because he said they line the fields anywhere.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't know what Denise said, but uh from what I observed as I go back and pass there two or three, four times a day that when we put the uh scrap on, they were out there eating it. But then all it stayed dry for a while before it rained, there weren't many. Yeah, it it definitely works. Now whether or not they want to we want to get a budget to be able to put scram out by two two two or three times a a month I I don't know I don't think I think the most important thing is to keep decrease the population

I regret not asking her is if you because um you know in some animal species if one of them is killed It's like a calling card to get out because there's a prof there's a predator and they leave. It's great white sharks are perfect example. If one of them is killed by an orca, the whole population scraps. No pun intended. I I do wonder though if that's the case with the goose. I mean, is that an option? I don't know. There's so many. I'm just I'm spitballing here. It's not here and it's everywhere.

But I'm just saying and I've thought about this a lot and because the um presentation was so effective and and I really enjoyed it. But I got to tell you, I don't think I what I got from that was that the Canada goose is resilient and that's a problem. We have so much water. Well, that's the other thing we have and they like to nest in like little and we have so many ponds and lake everything around this area that it's just ideal. They like places where coyotes can't get to and foxes can't. I think I think that on one island

I mean every year you could run those just a point about the fake coyotes. She made the point here talking about in the wild coyotes have a tendency not to go after the geese because it's too much of a pain in the neck for them. So, you know, it's Well, I don't know. Was she talking about the coyotes that don't blow in the air? No. A real coyote. A coyote. When when they're out in the wild, the the goose is not a big item for them because they're fight back. Yes. So, I mean, I thought that was telling, too.

If nature's, the coyote isn't doing anything either. I would like something to work. I also agree with you. I think it's going to be a tough battle and it would take many years of addling eggs to see a significant reduction but I don't think we can eradicate without trying the like I feel like the out there the land trust would possibly get involved like there could be people out there that are just they don't really have anything to like she spent years more doing this got people that would do that I was okay with it saying oh I could do that because then I know she's very I spoke to you.

My father lives in a Massachusetts lake. It's a huge problem there. I mean, it's a huge problem everywhere. And I think that if we can add them next year, we should give it a shot, right? Especially we have like Denise around and it's not going to solve the problem. But just like drugs, they don't cure a lot of diseases. They treat the symptoms. And so if you treat these eggs for a while, maybe we'll see a reduction. Uh but anyway, I just from what we saw last year, there was a there was a reduction. Not a huge reduction, but we didn't see them crossing the street all the time.

We didn't see cross the street all the time, like 15 or 20 at a time. every once in a while, but but and and I I know some guys that take care of private property, Don, and they swear by if they those uh D coyotes if you boom them every week. And I'd be glad if we put them up, they'll boom them that I noticed when they were up, they look scary and the geese would hang away from them to our pod. That's what I would figure it out. You know, I'm not the type of person that wants to give up.

No, I understand. I But I guess that what I'm saying is I agree with everybody that it needs to be tried and that honest effort needs to be made. Yeah. But and then when that doesn't work, Yeah. I I I don't then you go, okay. Yeah. But I think I think us I mean I don't know. I I think that the coyotes and fake swans and all that the fake swans I love yeah that's right guys I wish Bob you'd been there but her main advice was Adling right now was the only thing would be really the only thing that they found to help yes

so one one thought that I had when we left too was that she came too late in other words at that meeting I think that she said we got to get going with the next a few weeks. Yeah. Next couple of weeks. So there wasn't that much time to kind of rally the troops. Yeah. I think that if she comes back or we try to make decision on we need to start in January or December. You have to put these skates on to go out. No, but just know so that there's enough lead time for us to build a plan. Try to get a lot of people from town to come to listen to her and be inspired. Yeah. Yeah. It should be she'd be a good one because it's private and homeowners are upset. They live on lakes and everyone doesn't like it. Okay.

That's a good time to do it is potentially in the fall when soccer season's going on and parents are looking at all the crap on the field. No. Fair. Well, didn't she say too that you had to get permission to add like Yes. Not if it's your own property. Right. Right. But then for the rest we do have there are steps that we need to follow. Yeah. But see, I think that's what Roger Lake guys, they contacted the people that own those those islands and got permission to do it. So that's okay. But did they do it? Did the Rogers guys end up doing it? Yeah, they did it last year. They did it. Did they do it this year though?

I don't know. This is because now there's a clue. But remember, she said it's for a period of like three weeks. You add eggs for like three weeks and then once they hatch, the geese are not going anywhere. It doesn't matter how many times you scare them away with scram, they're going to come back and raise their young. So they might go in someone's yard while the scram is there, they're going to come back. They might get well. No, once the once the eggs start hatching, it's you're just having more years, you know, takes years of the eggs not to hatch for them to start saying this isn't a good. That's exactly what she said. I don't know why, but this isn't a good place to be. That's the only quote hope I think.

Well, I didn't know the part about putting the eggs first in water. They think it's one thing. I'm like, that's to do with the humane way, right? You want the crazy I can't remember which it was. No. Uh, so we appreciate that Denise came over. We're uh we were disappointed that BY shouldn't be doing it because the AV flu so can't be done this year but I think there was excellent ideas to get more of the town involved big meeting somebody like that prior

to the next season and and secondly I think in the meantime we have money to do scram two more treatments before July So, when it seems to get bad out there, it looks like it's going to be dry for a while. I'll I'll contact uh uh those guys to do it. And then we're getting four treatments for next year. So, maybe even we could treat it two times and at least four times this year at Hayes Park. Let's see how that goes. That's the plan. We got money for that, right? So you have you have money for two more treatments up until June 30th and then start out with four

and then we get four more treatments in a budget and then we get four treatments starting in July. Now it'll be up to us to decide how to use those treatments and we think it's really going to help. Maybe we do four treatments this year that just I get judged by the two that come up but you know yeah but but definitely when it start to rain hard then it's all gone washes away. Okay. So, uh, and and Don, I'd be I'd be willing be putting those D coyotes out there and moving them if we have some of those.

Uh, because I I know couple guys that take care of private properties and they claim it. It really helps, keeps them away and the customers are happy, but they have to be moved every week. And since I go past sale all the time, I don't know, I'll move. So, we'll try that at least this year. Okay. The next one is uh uh the Hayes Park Docs. Uh I think that uh everyone received this back on February 19th. I said this around everybody. uh uh something that I wrote out Paul about having a meeting or uh talking about having docks no more than 20 to 30 ft apart. Uh we actually uh were able to get we couldn't get the uh the current president of the uh rowers ba gi wide eye or

we uh she was not available because she's a teacher and she couldn't make it one by herself. So we did have a meeting on uh oh yeah Wednesday March 18 and I met with Paul and Paul Fuks invited or or invite herself. Martha was also there and we had a we had a good meeting and they agreed is you done all and

yes four of us because their president couldn't make a meeting and that was on after I got back that was on Wednesday March 18th and it was a good meeting and we talked about uh let's stay safe distance that this and that and and uh all agreed to keep them only 30 feet apart. Now I pointed out that some had some suggestions from people that have eight man skull things are anywhere from 15 to 20 ft was enough. 15 to 25 ft was enough. So going with 20 to 30 feet seemed to be extremely reasonable. What we learned is that I looked at satellite shots of Haynes Park and back in the day uh that the high school program was being brought before these new docks came that the docks were only 25 ft apart. Uh, and these were the old wooden docks that were there. And then over a series of I don't want to bore everybody with it, but here if you want to see this is what the old docks look like. There's a couple couple ext. This is what this is what the docks look like when the high school program was being run prior to the new docks in 2012.

That's right. And those docks where the top where they have to get through there is only 25 ft. How do you know that? The scale there's a scale from the alo. Yeah.

Yeah. And that the base was 37 and a2 ft. This is what they they used to look like. Okay. Uh, and because we've worried about encroachment on the beach in the swimming area. Well, what I pointed these out to Martha and and Paul that and here's another one that's helpful that in 2015 when they we had boat house meetings and uh that uh these are the new docks that were purchased that two 10 by 60 ft docks and that was approximately 37 ft. apart, which they didn't have to be apart that much. Paul Brooks talks about the terrain down here not being suitable, speed muddy, this and that. So, we talked about is there a way in which we can just put those concrete things down and bring these in at 25 to 30 ft. Uh that that would be a good deal, a good thing to do. And just just by like here is this last year. Uh

weren't there for me last year? Well, that was the kayak dock and they're not doing that. And those are back for the folks, the rescue boats.

Oh, and these docks are about 32 feet apart. So really 15 to 20 to 30 feet is more than adequate. Some some programs are only doing 15 ft because here's what I I think you recall we got this for poops. So, but for for now I do believe they put them about 30 ft. Haven't measured them because they just went in uh a week ago, Sunday, I think. Uh but uh go out there and measure them. They're going to have a third dock over there. got the docks, the new docks that we call less than 4 ft, which is not recommended, but they're willing to do it that over there. So, uh I think that we can maybe continue to approve on that as Don said, why not just get a couple pieces of concrete and put them out there? put them out there no more than 30 feet apart and make because the other thing is they should be parallel but Paul claims they can't be parallel because of the bad conditions on the land right

basically but if we improve the conditions on the land maybe for next year we could just do that and there'll be no argument about these things continuing to come over at one point they were 50 ft apart that condition on the land that's bad for the left one uh to to the one to the one closest to the beach. The one on the one on the left is poke through a concrete uh block.

Yeah, there's a concrete block that they used. That concrete block basically on the end of music. I saw when they went down there because the concrete block used to be pretty long and now they're just using a part way over here to anchor it in. But Martha had a good suggestion before Paul that she asked him what it was a very good meeting by the way and uh she asked him uh when you install the dots when you build them as well they install simultaneously and she said well why don't you put the one out where the concrete is first to make sure that this one's not more than 30 ft which I told her I thought that was a great idea. So it looks pretty good. It looks better this year.

Oh it looks definitely better. Yeah, it looks definitely better. Uh and uh and and the uh the kayak launch people don't want to do it anymore and they of course they they refused to be on the dock because they didn't seem to want to interact with the rolling people. So it was a good meeting we had uh and uh we we're almost there. Maybe for next year if we can get some concrete blocks to put in there and then improve the area the tall way is too muddy or whatever it is that we can maybe get 25 ft which used to be what they did

and they ran a successful bunch of dirt. I heard it dump a bunch of dirt there. Well, you put if you put the concrete things in and just fill it in, I guess. Yeah, you locate where you want the concrete block area, you set them, and then any thing you need to build from there to the ground, you just fill in. Yeah. Because they also have large.

Yeah. So, even though these dots are only supposed to be 60 feet long and and Paul actually brought up that that wasn't his idea and I had pull out a a boat house meeting that actually he is the one that brought that up when it was agreed upon they did 10 by 60 foot docks which I don't want to get into too much but

so what are the what is the length now? Right now the lane is nine sections. It's 60 67 and a half. But those docks keep on breaking. So until the docks break and then we personally I would not even buy these docks anymore because they were constantly fixing them. As Don said maybe the wood worked even better. Um both the docks are nine sections then. Yes nine section. So 67.5 ft. You know, the discussion came up at that at that meeting to replace the one that's Yes. It's not fixable. Yeah.

And you are of the opinion that they don't need to replace it because they haven't got down to the 60 ft, correct, that they originally required. Correct. Arthur said to me the other day, "Well, they're just replacing what was there." And I said, "Pass that on to the parks commission." No, but I'll I'll if if anybody wants to see it. I have what the request is and what the agreement was. We we know that, Bob. Everybody believes what you said. But yeah, I'm just passing on what she said.

Well, I I say right now they have more. In fact, when I did all the research on how far the dock should be apart, some of the research said you didn't even need 60 foot docks. All you need was 45. So I see no reason why we should be throwing money after things have haven't been working well. Well then something ought to be decided. Yeahan it's just going to be a continuing argument here. Yeah the dots are paid I mean the dots belong to the town right then that's an expense to the town.

That's correct. And right now these docks seem to be like $3,500 something is they said to fix it. I mean to replace it think so replace one section. Yeah.

Yeah. But I see no reason because the the agreement which I sent to Martha, the agreement between the town and the school uh and and the school and and the uh uh growing association is that to run the program they wanted 10 by 60 docks and I have the documentation that says that's what they did. So there's no re and plus the gang ways the the ramps I don't know if you can see it in those pictures but the ramps from the lane or another 8 ft. So basically the docks themselves were going out into the water more than 60 ft. And as I showed you before that looked when they first got the new dock it wasn't bad just they still were 37 feet apart which didn't happen. uh that uh I'm I'm of I strongly believe that the the commission and the town should not be throwing any more money towards these docks. And if these docks start to continue to fail and we only have enough docks for one to be 60 ft, then we're going to have to buy uh some other type of docks to be 60 ft because that's the agreement. uh the agreement was not what they did which at first they didn't even inform us at all is when they had come a couple that they broke and they fixed then because the warranty was in place for seven years maybe uh that they were able to get a new dock because they were breaking. So we said oh we found out what they're doing. Oh okay. And then they just put those stocks on there, but there's no reason for it to be any longer than 60 ft. And especially don't want to buy those stocks at war

in one dock. They said I need to be hold you know fish out in the lake. You know what? These docks are not the greatest stocks. And so at one point the town will have to buy new docks if they continue to fail. But I'm I'm going to tell you that we shouldn't be throwing good money after failing. And they have right now they have more than they need. So until they need 60oot docks, I don't think we should be buying anymore because it's you got to ride a dock and then you have to pay $600 delivery. Well, with the two docks and it's they keep failing. Could they have enough to make one dock and then we would replace one dock? Just not that.

Well, right now they only they don't match, but they they they they only need docks. The sections they have are 7 and 12 feet long and 10 ft wide, which I think it's good. The wider the dock, the less chance that people are going to have a miss. But anyway, to have 60 foot docks, you need eight sections. So, we have plenty of sections right now for 60 foot docks. So, it is my opinion. I said don't don't be purchasing any docs until we have a park directory that we don't need any more docks at this time. Who makes the decision to purchase docks? We do,

right? So, yeah. Okay. And it was a good meeting. I don't know. And in fact, one part of the reason the enclosure was so bad is that some of the docks were 75 ft long. Mhm. And uh there's no no reason for it. And as I said, you could have docks rolling 45 ft long. Some Roman associations only used for the eight man's skulls. So 60 ft is more than enough. And plus you got the rafts that are eight feet long, but it's even they were 60 feet. They're still almost 68 feet long into the lake.

But what's the deal? Like there's nine sections out there for a dock right now, right? And that's 67.5. Some of them are broken. They repaired them and so they claimed that a few more broke and they wanted to get another dock, but there's no reason to have a 75t dunk. Absolutely none. But how many do sections total? They had it before and they repaired a few this year prior to putting back in. One was unrepaired and they're out of um warranty. So what do we do? So they want to buy another one to replace the one that they took for the land.

Oh, and and the second one was destroyed that that we didn't even know where the second dock went. Apparently they didn't contact on or us and they let the uh kayak people put it on the Connecticut River, which not a good idea. That didn't work at all. It's it's too, you know, even these things are break even when they're not moving water going. So they so the bottom line is they want to purchase a section of dot if I remember correctly it's $3600. So that's the hold up is the is the cost

they want they want to replace it and Bob pointed out in the meeting that you only wanted 60 ft in the beginning. So why do we need to replace it? Why do we need to buy one? And that's the standstill right now. Martha told me the other day is this. He said they're just replacing what was there. I said that's not what you're saying. I think the parks commission who as far as I can tell is responsible for the docks. That's correct. Has to make a decision tonight as to what your stand is on. Not just Bob's opinion at a meeting. I think the commission has to make a stand. Okay, that's my question.

Question is, do we approve of the purchase of one section of D? I have like one thing that and I feel like this is going to be very unpopular opinion and you're going to be annoyed at me, but I feel like when something h, you know, something breaks or, you know, we have soccer nets or basketball hoops or whatever, we just replace them and don't think about it. But we have such a hold up with everything with the rowing associate. Like is it that big of a deal to just replace it? Like why do we care so much if it's 75 ft as opposed to 60? Like I feel like what's going to eventually happen is that people are going to start to be like I don't know. Do they need those 10 soccer goals that are stacked up together at Tom Woods? Like why do they have all of those? They don't use all of those all the time. They don't need them. We if we nitpick every little thing all the time, I think people are going to start to like do it in the opposite.

Well, just to answer your answer the thing you talking about the soccer goals, we use all soccer goals except one set of the big the largest ones because we used to have them on fields two and three. So, we used them I'm just explaining. So we don't use we just put them on field two now based on the soccer club's needs. So we have an extra set. Yeah. How many extra set?

Okay. I I think that everyone should have voted exactly at the bone house meeting and what was what was requested and I I just say right now that there's more than what was agreed upon at the bone house meeting and also at the agreement between the town and and uh the school can for a second.

Yeah. Point taken and I'm sure that I have no doubt that this is different than what was agile. My question would be is that $3,800 if it's not allocated for this, what could that money be used for? I think we're going to have Well, we don't there's nothing allocated specifically to replace ducks. That was the first question. Martha came to me and said, "Do you have money in your budget?" I said, "Not for docks. There's no line item in my budget for docs." I said you could put it under the repair and maintenance section and we're going to go over that line item by considerable amount of money which isn't the end of the world. This happened for other things at the rate

or you could take the money out of the Hayes Park fund for improvements to the park as your options as far as and uh uh everybody take a quick look at it. That's what the options for paying estimating in the Hes fund to do it. Yes. Okay, sir. But we're going to spend some of that money on on the uh

at the playground and also the access the ADA access. So, we're going to be spending that money and we may actually get to the point where we're going to have to buy docks because these things continually seem to be breaking. And I don't see any reason that these docks should be more than 60 ft because all the legal documentation says that. and four folks said he didn't say that and I had to focus out send him and Marco a uh an email saying no this is what was requested to support the defendant because he was in charge of the he was co-chairman of bow house committee that's here look at this one and Bob um just so I'm clear is Martha's position that we should just approve I think so, but it's not my opinion. And she was in fact Martha at one point was wondering who who owns the docks. And she was getting information that the town I guess didn't own the docks. And it's I had to give her all the input as to what was uh

it would never. So, who doesn't own the docks? The Okay. account, but for some reason she was questioning whether the town even owned the dock and I had sent her all the documentation I didn't send. Okay. Why people get annoyed when I get that? No, it's just that uh I I would rather leave that money there for other things that we don't I mean we don't need a 75 doc out there. We have 267.5 docks and at some point we may have to use money to buy another dock. We'll probably be able to get at least one doc out these docks that are breaking.

Yeah, I understand your point. Why throw a good more money into something that that these docks are cracked. Okay. They they constantly are breaking uh and they're constantly repairing them. They say, well, is is that a compromise? meaning that instead of doing putting, you know, a bandaid on this, we use that money towards replacement. Is that something that they would compromise on? Well, my my opinion is we shouldn't buy any more from this manufacturer and we should find out a better manufacturer for these dogs, okay? And we shouldn't be spending any. Well, that's what I was saying. If you if you give them one new dog and not that company, they'll have all those extra pieces

to replace backup pieces. So the docks aren't gonna match. Well, who cares? I mean, they make they can make one dock that's 60 feet and one that's 20, you know. So bring them all together right away to the other right over to that island so we can both I mean that if it was my personal property, I would probably say let's replace one and spend the money which we don't really have any

and use those other pieces to not add them together. I I I I first of all I don't like the fact that Martha was was being informed that we possibly didn't have the town which we are responsible the parks these were not town docks there that was a question are they town docks secondly they are town docs based on only legal agreements secondly these docks are not good docs they seem to always be being repaired so to speak. I would if we're going to buy docks in the future, I'd rather get somebody else docks that are more reliable. And they don't even leave them in there during the with

So, I don't know. You know, they uh you guys can vote any way you want, but I'm I'm vote not to do it at this time. And if we have to do it in the future, we going to have to think about whether or not we should be getting another manufacturer for these stocks. and they they don't get it from their program. Can I ask one more question, Bob? Is the is the necessity Well, are the rowers claiming that they need the longer dock as a necessity to run their program? Maybe they will now. I don't know. But but the original agreement was no.

But like do things I don't know didn't change since 2015. It's been 11 years. Do things are the boats different? Are they you know? Well, the boat's a lot different. They had guys going on right now. I haven't heard any. Yeah. Right. All right. I hear you on this. These old dots were a wooden dot. And look, they ran a program. They're not necessary for writing for running the program. They even as he is chair of that committee, co-chair, he made the motion. I I understand like and I'm I'm not trying to argue but I do think people want to understand

I I understand that they ran a program but things do change you know like I I'm just trying to understand it. I'm not I'm not before I form an opinion of how I feel. I want Hey, are you still on the phone? Do you have an opinion? We're hearing opinions here. Yeah, I'm still on the phone. The bottom line, it's hard to get a word in edgewise when you're not there. Um because there's a lot of discussion going on. But I guess my question would be, would the extra dock impede anything having to do with the swim area? No, I don't think so.

Doesn't look like it on the map, right? I don't Well, is anyone No. Well, and leeches and leeches. We Does it does it angle more towards the beach and swim area? Is that what you're saying, Tim? No. Does it impede where people cannot no longer go into the swim area? That is No.

No. No. The answer to that is no. Uh the answer to that is no. But last year, for some reason, even though Don and I had asked the presidents and the presidents of the assoc rowers association agreed for two or three years in a row, not to make the dock 75 ft that's closest to where their boats are now, the the motorboats over there. And for some reason he insisted that that one be longer than the one by the beach, which to me it cuts off the access cuts off the access to the launch boats that they I hear you. I you you make sense. I I understand what you're saying. I guess that I understand what Missy is saying to to the extent that I'll just use my own terminology here. What's the big deal? I There's a thought in me that's saying that in my head. There's another thought that says that I find it hypocritical when the town comes to dawn and wants us to raise the fees on the day camp because we're short of money and we're just being asked to half-hazardly throw out four grand like it's nothing. I I I that's bothering me too with approving this.

True. Very much. Um, so I don't look I also go to the fact is it worth the fight? I I don't I don't know. I I I don't see it as a fight. I I I see legal documents. I don't see it as a fight. Okay. I see I see documents that he was the chair of. Okay. This is what they wanted. They don't even need that. If you want to talk about some associations only have 45 good docks. The point is is that these docs are not good docs. At some point we do have some money in that fund for mains park just like we even have money from townwoods park that we raised 15 20 years ago.

Yeah. We and it's always good to have that we haven't used

because it's always good to have the money there in case we have to use it. Say for instance, this year we're going to have to use some of that money for the the uh picnic tables we had. We use that money. We're going to have to use some of that money for uh the playground. We're going to have to use some of that money for a uh a ADA payout to the playground. And and what else we may be using and and the way these docks are going, uh two or three years from now, we may not have enough of good docks for one 60 foot. and we're going to have to buy another one. So why would we be spending this money when it's not really necessary? And they're running their program right now on 67 and a half foot.

And can you what do they say the reason like why are they they because they want it. That's because he wants it. Well, if anybody else wants money for park and wreck, they usually should give you notice and you apply. You know what I mean? Like if we wanted to do something that cost that kind of money, we need a plan. There's usually I mean you just don't expect it. Well, that's why I was very curious that he brought Martha to this meeting. We didn't have a representative. I think that we kind of of the rowing association. We tried to get the president. Now, the president of the RO association is the fifth president within a year and a half. Wait, this was a good meeting.

It was a good meeting. Like in what way was it? Well, he got them to agree that it'll only be 30 feet even though they were there. You mean the width? The width. Yeah. Are these dogs deemed dangerous or they deemed something could be something we have and there are ducks. We got to figure it out. We don't have to do this group of anything. Right. I thought it was good because we agreed not to make them more than 30 ft apart and it was agreed to try and make them parallel and they looked better this year. You know better compared to the way they look because gradually they were coming all over the place. This which one was he? This is this is Yeah, this is the most recent one. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

I'm just saying generally the way things work I mean if if Ryan wanted $10,000 to put towards some team something that the baseball team he just doesn't say I want it. He's you got to plan a little bit ahead and let us know. Yeah. And the other thing is, am I wrong? If this is along those lines, they didn't know that they had replaced this piece until they went to put them back in. I mean, they were when they took them apart. How did they notice that? Like when boards like go back. Okay. When baseball wanted work done to the Cross Lane, they came and said, "We want work done to Cross Lane." Did we pay any like did they did it?

No money. We didn't spend any money. I was paying money that we had for the infield play

and and and guy I would feel much better if district 18 came to us with this argument not who we had had problems with who I I start the meeting off saying now now I'm glad everybody's here for the meeting because I want better relations and better communication between the rowers and parking rack, especially between the two pointmen, Paul and Don, which has been a little better lately, but for years non-existent. So, I don't see any way that this is a a need right now without district 18 coming back and debating this with us. Not because just one individual is got Martha's ear and Martha

Yeah. But think about it. Originally regional district 18 came through with the vote. Yeah. They came through with the boat. They were involved with that. Yeah. And then I mean you just really the need was there and I mean most times well well and they it was for the Rogers Lake vote which was all that's very logical and but district 18 came through big time and first it was at first it was only going to be old line paying the other difference until I brought it up in a meeting. How come lines stop paying and they did and then they went to Rochester went to line and got down to pay. Yeah. Which you should. Yeah. But anyway, this we have I have one more question. Yeah, we have to make a motion on this.

Well, can I Well, do we because here's my question. What is the proper procedure for somebody asking the commission to spend monies on their behalf? Is it okay to have a meeting with you and Martha and then just say, "Hey, Bob, bring it up to the commission. You got to vote on it." Or should they come here and explain why it is that they're asking us to take here? I want to get Ian the superintendent because Ian as a Greek because of oh I don't know a polite way to say but the problems that he has had dealing with certain individuals why don't we invite them all to the next meeting and have them have him say tell us what he wants and

because I I would say this in fairness to the rowers maybe there is some type of reason that is legitimate that I would like to hear I Because if it makes sense safety wise or otherwise, I don't know. But but I would I would say if you want the money then you should come here and ask for it is is my position. Now maybe I'm that's why I'm asking about procedure. I I don't know the answer. Well, everybody else has to do

well but but as I'm saying partners for the running of the rowing program and the town go to the town the only thing the school has bought is the shelves themselves and putting out recently for this half of the dock for the case. The school did not buy the shelves. The rowers, the rowers, the rowers purchased the equipment and give it to and they gave it to the schools and they do that through their dues and any kind of fundraising, whatever they did. Thank So I I think I think I think if no one wants to make a decision on that, then they should come to the next meeting for everyone to talk it out. But

well, I would say from on my behalf, if we're going to make a decision, I'm going to abstain. And I'll tell you why. Because I don't have the full story. No, I think we need table this stuff. Well, this this is might help restore it. The original docks were 60 feet. Say that's what they wanted. That's what they got. Then a few of the units do started to fail, but they could repair. And while they were f they're failing initial, they were still under warranty. So the company was giving them new pieces, right? So if they threw away the old ones, they wouldn't even have this discussion, right? They repaired them. So what do we do with the extra pieces? Do we just stack them up there in case you need them to or we add them to the dock?

All they did is they added them to the docks and Okay, I have problem. Okay, finish. No, I'm done. No, come on. I'm sorry, but

it happens all the time. I I am so so tired of dealing with if I want to deal with the robers, I would like the school to be involved because they are responsible for the rovers. Well, not in this instance though. If they're coming to the park and rec commission for town docks, I don't know how the school would have a plan on that one way or another, unless they were going to say, "Look, we'll pay for them," which I doubt is going to happen. So I think I I I agree with Martha or with Roers that this is under our jurisdiction. I I agree with that. I don't think that the school has any say in it unless they're going to show up with money. What I'm saying is is that you want some money, maybe you need to ask and explain why now. But maybe that's already been done and I'm out of I'm out of turn here. I I don't know.

I didn't come here to ask about getting grass off the field like this. There's a lot of Do you mind? What is your What is your take on that? What is your feelings? I mean, yeah. I I guess do you want to add that? Like, do you think that we should just pay or we shouldn't? I'd be cur I'm curious. I don't think there's a need. I think is the one if they didn't repair the other pieces, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I I follow. So, is it a problem that the docks are only nine sections now instead of 10? I don't see it. I haven't heard any complaints when they put them in the water and they started using them this year that it's a problem. Okay.

So it in my opinion it comes to a want the discussions about how good are these is this product in total that's up for debate because they seem to break a lot. They seem to break a lot. So, okay, going forward, I mean, obviously there was influence from the rowers to go right to Martha, which there's nothing in the budget in my budget to repair docs. Maybe there should be going forward or in the facilities budgets going forward in case something happens. Yep.

So, I just said she asked me who owns the docks and I explained what I do about that. And then she said, "How can we pay for this doc?" And I explained your options. You can take it out if you decide to take it out of the parks budget under the repairs and maintenance line item. You're going to go over on that line item, which has been done before, or you could take the money out of the Haynes Park improvement fund for improving the dock. Now, would you need this thing or want it? That's why I said that the parks and rec commission could mark the won't be tomorrow because the town hall is closed. But Monday or Tuesday she's going to my office and say what happened and I have no answer right now is they didn't make a decision. So that's why I said earlier the parks and commission should make a decision tonight on what to do going forward. So at least I can tell her that.

Okay. Another question. What if we what would happen if it's okay park and wreck kind of maintains or agrees that we have 60 feet of dockage but if you want to the rowers want to buy another section to make it and pay for it would we allow that to happen? I I would say just off the top of my head that yes because the doc were longer right previous

so maybe we could do that like this is this is what we agreed upon this is what is has been here blah blah blah if you're so adamant and for whatever your rowing safety reasons are that you want it to be 72 feet or 75 ft you can pay for that but then what if they say well we'd like to be 85t they'll give us more make them 80t no it's I have you say that we everything else item you put money aside every year until this is a want not a need. Okay. This is if you look back they ran a perfectly good program without these stocks much. No I think we understand that but what we need to give him an answer for.

So I I I have one more question then I'm I'll vote. Okay. Um the question would be if it say if the vote is no then it are they foreclosed from coming back and asking for the money again probably not right. Oh yeah. So well then can I make a motion to vote? I have I have one thing to add before the motion just as the general reference everybody who went into the board of finance or had their budget reviews this year was told to cut corners as much as possible. Thank Right. Everybody told and in fact for our big project

for uh dredging you heard I think from Don that that was shot down but they did put in the budget $50,000 for us to get that's that's something that bothers me. We need that budget so bad and we're taking I I just don't think this is just a want and not a need. I don't think we should as long as there's no clear like need that they have stated that we just don't agree like that we're unaware of but you said that there's not he's just well I guess to my point missing on that is if there is such a strong then you should be here for it can I make a motion to to vote oh how do I do uh

what do you want to do when do we want to

do you know the the issue better like the actual question oh I'll say the original agreement was for 60oot docks and They're currently 67 1/2 ft and that I see no need for these stocks. So, I don't know how else to say it. You're you're a lawyer. Well, I guess to narrow it, it would be uh the question would be does the does the commission approve the expenditure of funds for the addition of a dock? And if I'll be more specific, that is not currently in the budget. I would I would say not the I would say replacing of the dock.

Is it a section of dock? Do we work with that? Replacing a previous 65 75 foot. Does does the commission approve the purchase funds to purchase the section of dock to be replaced from the Hes Park whatever they call. So we could say you're saying we could I don't think that's I don't think that's my math right here. So originally it was 60 ft 60 foot ducks. Yes. That's that's two two times eight dock pieces. Right. Right. It's 16 7 and 12 foot length sections 10 foot wide.

To Don's point, these things failed. They repaired something. They got replaced in the warranty. Now they have 18 pieces out there. And they have had as much as 20. Yes. So they want to replace what should have been in the land. They want money to replace what they've already been. They already have more than what they originally. I just want to make sure I have the math right. There's been a lot of doc pieces talked about. They got two more to go through before they get back. Right. But how are we going to word this? So what the I I know you've said this a hundred times. The actual length right now is what? 67 and A2. Well, they're both 67 and A2. They're both nine sessions.

Sessions. And then they Okay. And as I showed you, the request was for eight sections so they still we still have two extra sections in my mind. Maybe you could say the original request was well section for each dock. There are presently two left. Here's the other part. We didn't even know what they were doing when they repaired them and and what new ones. They didn't tell Don. They didn't tell us. They just did this and then wanted to put them make it longer. Maybe they're not even safe. Huh? Maybe they're not even safe. Maybe their repairs were not safe. I don't I don't know. But the way I'm looking at those

All right. More money than a bad product. We just vote like Don said just the the park and rec commission. Um, we're not the motion your the motion to approve. The motion is approve the funds to purchase and replace the section of DACA that was requested to purchase and purchase. Let's see your question. The person making You make the motion to approve.

You make the motion to approve the purchase of one more dot for I don't have to put the cost. I don't but you're the person make like whoever's making that motion doesn't have to agree with it. That that would make a 67 and a half with doc 75 and the other one's 67 and a half. 62.

That's a good point. They want to make one of them longer. Okay. I'm as frustrated as Don has dealing with this for so long. Just make any motion you want this vote on it. I I'll make a motion. Okay. Does Does the commission approve the funds to add on to the dock? You have to make a mo like you have to move that the commission will not approve. The commission does I mean I don't know fther to approve or not approve. It's a missing point. motion to approve it. I know. I don't Do you have to approve your person who makes a motion to approve does not have to vote? Okay. Roberts.

So, you want to make a motion to approve. I'll make the motion to approve funds to purchase one more doc section. Yeah. To uh approve the allocation of funds from the H park improvement fund. That's where the money from there. So I wouldn't have to come from there from there. Oh the allocation of funds to purchase one more dock section for H park.

I guess if you really want to break it down, it's it's a two-part thing. You're making a motion to approve purchasing something. Secondary thing is where you're getting the money from. Yeah, because that's I think that that's important. But what are we calling the one more dock section for the docks at park? Sure.

For the town owned, they want to replace the one that's unrepable. Off the record, if if you're replacing something something else broke, like a pump at the well, fless part, you're not you're replacing it because you need it for sure. You're not replacing it because you want it to this going home fixing it and saying now I got

or or that that a commission does not feel this is a need this versus a walk and unless it's a need without approving. Yeah. And these minutes are very colorful. So if somebody really wants to figure out why, they can just listen or take a look. It's all about park because they do not You're voting to approve them. I mean, you're moving to approve them. Um or or should we say to not approve because it's a it's a it's a want, not a need. I I think we figured we have to say

to add that as be part of the discussion before. Yes. Well, somebody has requested that we purchased a replacement dock, right? So, I don't think the motion should say we're not going to approve it. I think the motion should say does the parks and rec commission approve purchase of this dock that's unrequested but that being justified at park commission meeting. How about that? I don't think we need to do that. I think we need to say Brandon moved to approve one for the purchase of one more dock section for the town own docks at Hayes Park. Good.

Okay. Now you can probably can't even get a second then, right? No. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm not going to say well if the motion I think can get that book over there explains everything. But I think if if a motion doesn't get a second then it just dies on the table right there. Right. You see that with people who are reappointed or not reappointed on commission or boards. Somebody will say I nominate Ryan to be on the parks commission. I I I make the motion you know and somebody else doesn't second it then it's off the table.

Correct. So we just do that way. There was no second you cannot move in a negative motion. So you cannot you cannot say I move that we do not because it's been requested verbally but it's been requested. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then we're going to leave it at Brendan. Uh move to approve funds to purchase one more dog section for the town own dogs at Hannes Park. Just there was no second. There's no second. The motion is dead. I think or you somebody can second that you vote on I mean what should we just do that?

I don't know. All right. I I know when people are not voted for Yeah. I I don't like the way that motion set because it's it's not showing that the request of of the the school and the rowing association was for 60oot docks. This request is to to change to add on to a 67 and 1/2t dock to make 75 ft. Get that all be in the discussion though. Does it have to be in the motion? can be and it probably I mean we have since the original agreement was docks 60 foot for for

10 by 60 foot docks even though this would be seen is that appropriate to be in a motion now no I'm saying it's just I don't think you I hear you like I understand I get it I just for the purposes of what it is that we're exactly voting on I think we're voting on they're not down with a funds to buy the to purchase a piece of the document the reasons why we're either going to say yes or no are involved then in this discussion. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Make the motion. You made it. You did. Reader wants more, please. Is anybody going to second? We don't. There's no second. And then the motion's dead. Yeah.

Basically means nobody wants it. If you put there's a second that person. Brendan McKver moved to approve funds to purchase one more dock section for the town owned docks at Hannes Park. There was no second motion dead. There was no second fell off the dock. No second. Okay. Now in the in the in the um in the discussion beforehand

which was now we've already kind of discuss and that's where we put it. It's all in there. I mean I think we got it all in there. Yeah. Okay. About if you have any question about the legal business mayor or anyone I can send you all the legal documents. Yeah. Yeah, I might ask you to try to just um if a motion is not seconded in a public meeting, it generally does not be considered further at that time. The chair asked for a second. If none is provided, they will say the motion is not before you and proceed to the next item of business. Right. Let's let's hear that. Let's move on.

So, there was no second. Oh, no. It doesn't require a second. According to Robert's rules, 12 or fewer people on a small board, according to Robert's rules, motions in small boards, roughly 12 or fewer people do not require a second. So maybe we should not have a second, but also vote. Okay, let's just So we have it all. We cover our basis. Let's vote. So don't put there was no second. You can put that there was no second, but then we'll take a vote and that way we're covering. What were we voting for? Not having it second because Yeah. No, we're voting to approve it. All All in favor say I. Nobody says I. Okay, whatever. Let's just do it. It's going to take about minutes. Let's just do it.

All right. Yes. Anyone in favor of the motion? We still have to do the vote. Got to go through. All in favor of Brenton's motion say I. All oppose. I I had 10. Okay. And anybody else? No. Okay. We should really have a discussion about this. No. Okay. We're moving on. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Uh current review of PNR program structured fees.

I thought we you hear me after this one, but where' you send me? The current and I made some decisions about our current prices for day camp and afterare and the current prices are day camp will be $350 per child up from 300. Each additional family child will be 250 up from 150 and the afterare is at 250 up from 240. So we raised the prices on a day camp. After care is 250. It's all written right here. Oh, you're going to send it to me?

It's all right here for you. Okay, that's great. I think we've having this discussion and I think yes, something was justified. Uh, and I'm sure that everyone will be happy about this. I don't think it was proper to raise it much more than that. And we had signups open yesterday and we already have at least two that I'm aware of scholarship request. So those people are still out there. So when they ask for a scholarship because just for my do you reduce the fee for them or remove the fee? We've done both.

Okay. In this case, we reduce the fee for them. Okay, that sounds good to me. Uh, anybody else have a comment? Sound Barry still the cheapest deal around. We have to vote on this. No. No. They've already been Well, then I want to vote no to it. Oh, you brought this up with the board of finance or did they and I decided Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, because we've been talking about it for a few meetings. Yeah. Okay. How's going? What?

How registrations go? As of before this meeting, um there are 203 people signed up for day camp with an income of $63,350 and after care is 40 people signed up with a income of $10,000. We're trying to keep the camp at 250 this year and they have to care to 50. Amazing. Amazing. Okay, that sounds good. Uh, and it's still invested all around. Yeah, it's still it's like one of what it would cost. $2.33 an hour to put your kid in daycare. I guess people can't

for the first kid. It's $166 an hour for your additional kids and it's $46 an hour for you. Now the after that you service. No, no, that's that's we do one. We have that too on top of this. We do it. Two two four. And what are you char for the summer? Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. I I just I guess I just thought this is after after care or or some people we do like we can only have a certain amount of people. So we found that there was a need for both of us to do after. Oh, okay. Okay. That's a real hard. So but but they are the same. Like I go over and get the kids.

Okay. Well, that's that's very reasonable. That's like hugely re Okay, that's very good, John. Thank you so much. Uh, we're moving on. Uh, oh, I have one new business thing to bring up. I do, too.

Uh, okay. Okay. My new business one is is Martha mentioned uh that we should be looking into looking for grants for dredging. Uh, she says there may be out there. Uh, okay. I know nothing about it. uh with uh that I I won't give it a stamp. I want somebody else to to help to look for grants. I mean, I'll I'll I'll do a little work on this, but I I have no clue where to look what to do. And back commission all the time.

I have no idea. But I get I over there. They have a lot for direction. Anyone know how to find grant money? Guess he knows people. I know somebody that can feed people. These are the ship grants, right? With this sh I don't know anything about I've never done that. I know nothing about that. You guys may know people that do it. I would first go out and ask somebody that thought maybe they do rounds of grants the state I think. Yeah. Uh, you somebody know somebody that they could approach and maybe have that person come in and we can talk to them about

No, no, that's not what I was saying. I was just Okay. All right. I'll I'll try. I mean, the grant the big the big dredging that they did was all paid for by that ship grants though like you have to apply by February 20th. It's only open from Jan end of January to the end of February. last one. But don't be long. It's an application, but I I mean Okay. Well, but maybe you can just send that to me. What this application is maybe we can find out from you. I I can see um you know might be really helpful. Terry Lewis is so mad at every Terry Lewis knows how to do this.

She's pretty curious. Is anyone else too commission? What was I know George Finley's still on this too, but he probably wouldn't know. He doesn't do it. If you have somebody from Barber Commission that maybe I could speak to or I'll be willing to do that, but All right. If you can send somebody to my way, then we can maybe I can get help or something. But I had no clue how to do this. I mean, just a quick little Google search gives you key judging grant programs in Connecticut. Here's five person for the job. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And what did they say? Well, the ship grants, the Connecticut DEP boating grants offer tier one and tier two up to $200,000 funding for infrastructure, including projects that improve access. Clean water fund grants um for water quality improvements include restoration and dredging associated with non-point source pollution control. D climate resilience fund and then it tells you the applicants include m municipalities, state agencies, private sometimes private entities. Um what the process is I'll send this to you. Thank you. I've done my my due diligence and now I'll send

I know they got one interview for agriculture queen at the brook or something. I will also ask Martha because she seems to know about the grants. I'll I'll get whatever you got and uh missing and I'll go and ask Martha. She seems to be know the most about grants around here. I know I know people there's grant writers. Yeah. That but as far as who write to and who you may have a chance for and you had business to. So one. Yeah. Okay. So, so Bissy, you're gonna send me some

I did. I sent it to you. Thank you. Oh, I need Okay, go ahead. Um Martha spoke to me about the discussions on the subject of uh the towns of lime and all the shared cost of parks programs.

Yes. and Christy Zella from Lime had a few questions that I answered and Martha came there's a due consideration. Nobody's going to make a decision tonight. We're not going to have a big discussion about it. I'm just going to tell you what they said. And the consideration is to have the addition of blind residents to be included on this parks and rec commission as members. So I am just saying that listen to what I just said and get your thoughts together about it to be discussed in the future. Yeah. Because they don't have a commission.

They have a commission. Line has a commission. Yes. But they don't have a director. They have a director. They do. They just hired somebody. But they have a commission. Bob, I'm not going to get in discussion with this because it's going to it's it is not going to be just a parts commission that's going to make this decision. It's going to be the boards of selectment from both towns. That happens. Uh I I remember this back in Town Woods Park, we had two members from line put on it and it all worked out. Committee. That was a committee, not a commission. Yes.

So if they do this, they have to change all ordinances and everything else. So that's a that's a big thing to do. But so there was no line didn't make any offers to pay. some of the funds that we showed were being provided for free to them. I wasn't I wasn't included on any of those discussions. Thank you. That's important to find out. We can always just treat get the line just increase their payment. Maybe we do any other time. Well,

that was discussed apparently and that was one of questions was would be let would if it didn't pay in hand guess would we intend to let blind kids in the programs or would they be charged a non-resident fee? And I know the commission previously when we were talking about this said we're not going to charge slime kids as a non-resident. I have no problem with doing that if they are non-residents. Yeah. If if if the line selectman don't have a problem with that, it would be very easy for us to say, "Okay, you belong."

There's no argument because they aren't really resident. Yeah. We were trying to do it for we're not disregarding them. We're welcome. Yeah. We we we approached it as kids growing up and they go to school together as a community thing to to include them make allow them to take.

But remember on parks programs the kids that are online are still paying for the program just like the line kids on line kids. We're getting something. This cost sharing stuff I think is townwide for other reasons than just parks and recck program is you know to be part of our lake and beaches. Well, yeah. No, they tried that once we perfect example with the the the dock with the rescue boats and the Rogers Lake phoning up

and they're and they're going to be starting to ask asking for access to Hannes Park. Yeah, I know. Well, because of that, you know, like just We'll just give you Haynes Park. Well, probably 20 well more than 20 years ago before I built Thomas Park, I suggested that we sell Hanks Park to the road because I think they Okay, that's an interesting development. Put it in your heads because it's coming. These discussions are coming. So, okay. All right.

Okay, we can move on. So, um, correspondence. Okay. Correspondence. Uh, in reference to the meeting we had on that Wednesday between Mr. Books, Martha, myself, and Don, uh, I was hoping that this thing this was somewhere in our in our correspondence. Uh, Mariela, this I don't think this ever appeared in and this was the basis for that meeting. Okay,

this this everyone got it on February 19th and we include this in correspondence. This was the basis for the discussion that we had with Mr. Fuks, Mrs. Shoemaker, Don, and myself. What's the date of that? It's February 19th. And if not, this was the basis for our discussion. Do you want me to reinclude it including that? Yes. I'll look for it. Yes. If you can't find it, it was Oh, you know what? I think that's the one that went to my old address. I'll send it again. Where do I send it to?

And I remember I couldn't find that one. It's um it's Emmy Garpinogmail. Write it down. You find anything? so that you get you get the agendas want to send it to you, right? Depends what address you're using. I guess it's still mccmail.com. But how do you get the the agenda? That I said those come to my right address. Okay. I don't know. Send down what your new address is and I'll send it to you and I'll change your address.

Okay. Thank you. And any public comment, Tim? You're the only one on telephone there. Any huh? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. Okay. There is no public. We did have somebody pop on for a minute. Nobody. Okay. All right. A motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Yeah. No. There you go. 44. What time is it, by the way? 7:54. Oh.