Open Space Commission - Regular Meeting

the order of 501 motion to accept the minutes from the meeting. I'll make a motion. Okay. Second. Second. Any discussion? Any corrections needed? It was one typo. All right. What's up? There's a T in Z. [Applause] Can I give it to you? The missing suit. All right. Not the word. Yes. I'll find it. Okay. So, um shall we vote? Yes. Okay. All in favor? All right. I post because I was in that meeting. That's right. You weren't here. Y and public comment. Is there anybody online that we know? Hello. Hi. Okay, let's move into our our business part. I'm hopeful we can we can wrap up before 7 o'clock today. We'll see how it goes. To do I know that I'm kind of you're just back and getting back in between and I'm first on the agenda. I have an issue for you. Yeah. I'll just uh briefly say uh first um thank you so much to Joan who has started a repository for information about when folks are going to be away. Um you know Greg and I thought it would be useful. Hi, there you are. Not Ken. Um, yeah. So, Greg and I thought it

would be useful to working on a a project that you know, one of the commission members is kind of a point person and if you're going to be out of town or if you're an expert in that area and we're really thinking we'd like to be able to touch base with you before making some time sensitive decisions. just be helpful to know if you're going to be gone for an extended period of time, not, you know, like a long weekend or anything, but if you're gonna be gone for a week or something, it'd be great if you give us a heads up and, you know, you don't have to broadcast it. You can just send a quick note to me or Greg or Joan and that'll be helpful. Great. So, we have a couple of people who've responded to that already, but a handful. So, if if anybody else knows their summer plans going forward, that would be great. Sure. I can give them to you. I didn't think I sent them to you though. I didn't have to. But that was from your most recent one. And knowing you, you have more coming up. Summer fest, right? And then I have a week for you, too. Okay. I have a week off. All right. Yeah. Just that would be great. We already will use this for planning because I understand that both Suzanne and Joan will not be available for the June meeting. So, we'll have to figure out taking the notes. I'll talk to Katie about we get a temp in here. If not, what's the date of the of the June meeting? 11. Okay. So, um, Andrew, do you want to talk a little bit about what's been happening with the Stewarts? Yes. Um, both Peter and Isaac attended a horse and park chain saw training

program over two days at the end of April. uh both said how great it was, common knowledge, very insightful, great um training and uh camaraderie. The first day it was pouring rain, but they did inside work and other things. And then the second day they were out on the doing the tree stuff. I haven't heard much detail just Yeah, I'm kind of encouraged that Isaac dropped the traitor now. Um I don't know. He sent his report late to me with apologies after I reminded him. There was no mention of it in his account. Um and he um so I don't know. I think he's a little busy and potentially been moving with shortly. Um, I had borrowed equipment for the training for him from John Lathro. Um, I did purchase a saw and Evan was like the man of the hour like whatever was just right there, right there. It was like he was in the store with me. Um, but just in getting the equipment for Isaac, it was edifying. So I can imagine what the training was, but it will require purchasing equipment for him um to be used by any other steward, including Peter, who happened to have been gifted by his family for this. But there are um chaps, a helmet, an ear thing, and a um visor. Visor getting this echo. We got an echo coming on again, but sorry. It's not that bad. Just he can hear. You hear Neca when I'm speaking?

Situation. Sorry to interrupt. Um, so um I don't know if I need approval to buy it, but it's a bit of a it it should be How do you hear it? Yeah. Smells like African drums. Horror movie. All right. Okay, we're better now. We might be better. Okay. Okay. So, um I could get some of that local. I could order some of it online. But I think another consideration as to whoever is wearing the chaps and the helmet that we one point we had talked about the stewards sawing together and um that if they come across it in their trails they should okay note it and then make a time to come back with somebody else whether it's the other one or someone from the committee. Um but that doesn't seem to happen. they seem to do it on their own. It's certainly Peter. I don't know how much um Isaac frankly does on his own. Um but I think after the training and Evan knows from it and hear other stories and that um Isaac may have failed or not his first tree. Um there's still consequences if you're not doing doing what you know what you're doing. and he doesn't strike me as the No. Yeah. I I I don't think he's he's had a lot of experiences in chainsaws and and I absolutely agree. I think it would be really despite him having attended the course, I think it would really be helpful for him to have Peter with him just for safety sake and just to give him a little tip if he sees

something wrong when Isaac's cutting down the trays. And did did Peter take the course, too? Yes, I know that CFCA policy is that you have to have I'm not I haven't on my trail. So I need to trace that down. I can get one someone it is but they have to have two people there whether one is might not have to be but just for safety seems like a wise policy to people. Yeah. So I will write them to say that if there's a tree that needs to be cut that either the two of them go out or Peter goes out with someone from and ask any of us especially you two three um uh yeah because one of the things that the that the um instructor of the course emphasized over and over and over again was that Um logging um which essentially is tree cutting uh is the most uh probably the most dangerous work in America. Um I don't know of anything else that's quite as Are they felling trees or kind of trees? Well, they're felling felling trees, moving trees. Um Okay. whatever just getting getting wood out of the lumber out of the out of the forest. And he loved to tell stories about some of the horrors that happened. But uh um if if you ever saw an old movie called Sometimes a Great Notion

um if you haven't watched it um and you want to see what logging is about that's that's a good one to watch. But um I think it's in it's extremely important to have two people there. So having said that and I could certainly write them in saying if you see a tree mark it, note it, coordinate with each other or with one of you three. Give them my number. And um in which case do we still want the same extra chaps and helmet and ear for for the second person for the second person? I would say yes. Just the operating interject here. But you would say yes and they're saying no. I I would think certainly a helmet for the for the standby guy. Okay. Wouldn't you I don't think you need chaps for somebody standing most of these trees are already down. So nothing's going to fall down. Well, the most dangerous ones unfortunately are the leaners. Yeah. Um and so um I think it's important that I mean the second person could just stand back. Yeah, something they might fall. So, well, I'm just wondering if they might not take turns like one of them cuts it down and then the other one is dragging some pieces away and says, "Here, you cut up the rest of it." I mean, it would just be kind of awkward if they didn't all have what they needed to be able to do stuff, right? It it would be my my suggestion that they both have full equipment and and and I can see where if they're cutting a tree together, they they're both of them they're both not going to be operating this at the same time. But on the other hand, in terms of fairness and equity, you don't want one to think, well, I'm I'm just kind of the assistant and this

is the guy I have to turn to. And there may be occasions um where something's just laying underground and it's too big to move. uh and one of them wants to cut in half and put half on each side of the trail that they have that and they have the ability to do that and it's kind of an opportune time to take a look at the sheets that I passed around to all you guys and that's our budget sheet. So there's there's two two sections to that. One is our carryover and the other is is the the appropriate budget. Uh if you the appropriate one is is on the landscape page, you can see uh that we we've spent just a bit over half of our money. So we have plenty of money, Andrea, for for you to buy all their equipment that they need. Uh and and I'm happy with you if you're willing to do it doing the shopping. Uh you can do it locally or I I've been buying things from this company called AM Leonard, which is kind of they own Gardener's Edge, too. AM Leonard. Uh, and they have a lot of safety equipment that are geared towards industry. Uh, that you could I'm sure you can find the chaps and everything you need. The other thing I was wondering too, I don't I can't recall the last time I saw Isaac and Peter side by side, but I don't know if what would fit one would fit the other anyway. Um, so the helmets are adjustable, so right. And the chaps are um Velcro and like a belt. And um I think John and John Lupram is a smaller man and shorter than Isaac, but Isaac was able to wear his. I was wondering if this may be kind of an offthe-wall idea, but if we get him a helmet or something like that, get a little decal saying old space steward. Something that might be kind of fun.

And so and the other sheet is the carryover that we had from the previous year. There's two line item items on number 254 is the Sherry Road refuge and that money is basically is it on here some? No, it's the next next page another page. It's on the other side. Yeah. Um 254 is the wildlife refuge. That money is basically uh committed to have um the pond and lake do a last one last spring this fall in the next fiscal year. Okay. And then the other other line item, open pace property stewardship. I would think most of that I would say probably over 4,000 of that is going to go to our mapping project. Um I I think the mapping project related expenses close to $4,000. Um we spent $130 on on these around for you to look at a new map to go into our who's who brochure which has been quite popular and out of print now. So we'll have made copies of that for our uh midsummer festival. Um I think the two two changes only two changes are in there is horse creek landing and we added noise uh noise as open space. Yes. Then the other thing that that we have to do and and and we can get into this mapping is is science as well. And one last thing that also kind of related to another topic is is Nancy Merritt did u flew a drone over Bartholomew. Um and she picked up some very good footage all in little bits and pieces and it needed to be stitched

together and it needs you need to use ArcGIS Pro for that. And I talked to Steve Perry a bit about that and he can do that. I don't know what he's going to charge us for that, but um I hope we can do that and that'll give us a better sense of what's going on with that property. So, we do have the money and and as I mentioned, we have sufficient monies in in the stewardship account. So, I have no problem. Peter takes an extra hour to walk out somewhere with eyes to cut a tree or whatever. I It's good training and it's I'm fine with the extra hours if that needs be. And also um I think I need to coordinate with Russ and have you also speak with them um about using the Avenza for the mapping. We'll come to that. Yeah, we'll let's get into that later. Okay. I'm just thinking. Okay. Perfect. Did you um I'm not sure where on the agenda to put this, but the hiker happy hour. Sure. Let's talk about that. Um so we had 20ish people 21 um at [Applause] the Thank you. McCullik's um open space and uh Evan did a really nice job of speaking although it was suggested that whoever is speaking we have a megaphone because it's you're far you're spaced out and I mean short of a microphone I mean people love hearing what you and Mike and anyone else has to say. Um, so, um, most of the places aren't as noisy as you're right next to Yeah. But even if you roll I mean it's it's a I don't think that's a big

expense if we're going to have it. I don't know if we want to or roll up a piece of paper or bring a cardboard from a from a but it's on all of them. It's a running comment every, you know, and that's what everyone seems to comment about or the fact that if you start speaking and there's people still trailing in um that they, you know, don't don't hear. Is there any type of electric car or something? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, but even even if it's a tube from a you know, I'm serious, you know, from a toilet paper, you know, it's enough of a projection. um but more um a a point for me us as kind of coordinators. I did not want to pay haven't been build and I h I have a meeting tomorrow I think with Lesie but I was not happy about the appetizers at all. I could have paid for that by $30 when I looked at what they served. The the presentation was late and I was late um in getting there. I think we were late in getting there like 20 minutes. There was nothing out on the tables. There was a few bowls, two bowls of mixed nuts and less comes in with this tray of massive sandwiches, like eight sandwiches, maybe 12. They were so big and they serve tea. Let me remind you, tea sandwiches and you do uh hard boiled, you do um devild eggs, uh cucumber, dill, salmon on, you take a a piece of bread and you make a nice sandwich, cut it into four corners that

are triangular so you could bite into them. It's not a meal, it's an appetizer. The sandwiches were were huge. and the grapes. You go pick up a grape and you pick up the whole bunch. I mean, that's catering 101. This is a restaurant. I mean, I was shocked. And um so we're meeting with Lesie. I'm trying to tone it down, but I do. Are you bringing someone from the trust? Yes, Mary Devon is coming and I discussed it with her already. Um, and I wrote a nice email just saying, "Thank you for the kickoff and the welcome. We would like to review and preview the upcoming ones." Um, but we are paying that I feel we have a voice and for $100 that was horrible and and we could either do it ourselves or not pay and they could provide something and we won't say a word and we just do the happy hour. But if we are paying then I think and I know that it's delicate more delicate for the land trust because the kitchenings are are very generous sponsors and and great the supporters and I don't want to diss them and I know the idea came from uh of relationship with Chris and um Amanda and we had spoken about expanding to other restaurants and giving other restaurants and local places a dance and shot and just make it more communal and Chris took objection with that um as if it's the hers and p anyway I don't want to ruffle feathers but I think we're a business too and we're the town so did you actually were you presented with a bill or not not yet okay I'm not asking for it getting a bill right you guys haven't

been getting a bill right we last year we we've needed to a firmly ask for one and it's been given to us after that request has been made. They they do not present it to us automatically for whatever reason. Yeah. The other thing I you might want to mention I don't know if anybody else experiences this or what their thoughts are but I can never figure out their drink prices. I I I buy a beer and it's a draft beer. It's one of their featured happy hour beers. And and Right. Well, it's not five. Yeah. It's I mean, they they add tax and they add tip to it and it it doesn't seem like a bargain. I'll I'll say that. It's a happy hour. That's the whole point. She at least this time I know I don't know if I noticed it before but the sign actually said search charge and taxed or added but it didn't say what the actual cost and walk out. The other thing too is that again you know I I I want to criticize their business model and what their expenses then are but they had one gal who was a bartender and she was struggling with the cash register and everything. It would took quite some time to get get your order. So, it's been consistent. There's at least 10 entries in my opinion. Wow. Well, if it was just five bucks, you wouldn't have to. So, you just say a round number, five bucks, pay back, you put down a $5 bill and then you just go or you have this the signature drink in a pitcher already made and you pour it into a glass with four ice cubes. So it's, you know, you have it, you know, measured where it's fair for both where they're getting some profit and you're not getting all ice for $8.

Yeah. So she's all Yeah. Well, the I'll try to be one thing I would mention too is just from from our perspective, you mentioned that the kitchens are supporters of land trust for us. We we we have been um sharing one of our properties with them for somewhat of the benefit of the guests as well. And the flip side of that is is theoretically they're supposed to be maintaining the yellow trail which runs from their parking lot to about where the junction is with the main trail of the far. I wasn't that uh Yeah, I thought you had with them. I I thought um because they did put they did rebuild the bridge across a little ditch there, a drainage ditch that um I think was built back when the when there was a barn there and um and they had cattle and but um so that was that was rebuilt. uh whoever was to doing the lawns and you know and um so they said they said they'd have their guys keep that trail move but um the last time I was there they were doing the invasives um it was that was April seemed like it was mowed but it was early I don't know whether I haven't been back since I don't Yeah. So, okay. Do do you know where where you you're planning for for June, Karen? Hill. Yes. Yeah. It's off of two.

Yes. Also, yes. Okay. So, that kind of leads us into uh it's a nice segue Andrew having brought up the hikers happy hour to um the next agenda item that's the bar following open space which should have been the location for this past happy hour but there's some flooding and some some u bridge issues there. So, I went over there today, but I I short on time. We didn't have to I didn't type in to see where that bridge missing bridge is. What where are we at with that? That what can you tell us explain a little bit about what was planned and why that didn't work. Andrew, in terms of the bridge repair when I was away, um so Peter went to check out the property before the hike and um found the second bridge after what Logan built was damned up um as a beaver dam somewhat. Not so much of a dam there, but above that there was a um a dam. Yeah, I think. Yeah, you know which one we're talking about. Yeah, I took some pictures. I don't know if they're still on my phone. They're um the second bridge is pretty much gone. The beavers are starting to use it to make a secondary dam. They had one about 15 ft um upream that uh that's if that ever went the whole thing would go again. But it looked I think it measured it was about probably about 17 18 feet across. So it's a little bit more than one beam across to make a bridge. Um just look like a big project. It was

interesting though. I think the that trail isn't how it's kind of boring. I never I've never hiked it and I walk by it almost every night. Um it would be interesting to bring a trail along the water so that If you went in early evening, you might see the beaver moving around. Right. Five or six pictures, you'll see the bridge as it was in April. And that Evan, Fred and I, um, Fenton and Peter went out and we were looking to, um, uh, open it up a little bit and measure and see what kind of crossing we could make. And it would require a similar but simpler structure of a I think 18 ft. Is that what you said? 18 to 20 foot. um logs hopefully from the area there going across with some um like cross bars, cross wood. Would a bridge like uh Logan did work in this spot like too? Yes, but that would take a little bit more than than I think we're able to do between now and September when the next hike is. Uh we're coming into summer, people aren't going to be as available and um it's going to and there's not that evident number of trees on the property when the I was hoping for something. Yeah. When the state was uh hitting those trees along 156, I was uh like Fred was a gone. He had a trunk. Greg was gone. He had a truck. And I was like, "Ah." Um, but it may require bringing in wood. And

I think Evan, you said that planks would be too unstable even if it's on um rolling law, you know, flat lost or something. Um, you mean the the cross pieces? No, the Oh, the main the main Yeah, I big ones. He thought it would be too unstable and sloppy in the middle because Yeah. Um Yeah. So, a structure like that, but maybe more using rather than the telephone poles um logs, long trees, but to find two that are somewhat symmetrical may be challenging even though there's some out there. So, so it seems like there's like I guess I I can see two alternatives and it they may not be real alternatives because I'm not familiar with exactly what's going on, but one is to build some type of bridge and the other would be reroute the trail as as as Bill kind of suggested. And if it's rerouted, you could go around. You wouldn't then go over Logan's bridge. It's a bridge to nowhere, sadly. And you would end up going around the where it bends to go to the bridge. You could bend it to the right and you could go along the back side of the um where the beaver deceiver is. Oh, didn't we go up there, too? Or is that what? Actually, there's a little trail there, too. Walk in there. Nice. It's interesting at least. Oh, all right. Well, one alternative is in I I know could be we could do that. Before between when we had the Girl Scout contemplate building a bridge for us and we actually had Logan on board, Amanda was talking to Al Bond about having him build a bridge. So that would be a kind of a third

alternative is to go to some vendor that could I'm not sure how you would get in there any better than we or Logan would be, but have somebody actually provide the materials anyway and get them as close to on-site as possible to use those materials. I I know the name, but I don't know Al. He has the He's kind of a farmer world. Um he has a excavating business um and does road work and um he's um he's been very helpful to us Emily and me when we had animals because every once in a while we have animals don't live that long and they somebody dies and have to bury a horse or a donkey or something and so Al would come over with his backhoe and dig us a hole. Um, but could we think about rerouting? Yeah. Um, does it touch does the show does it go to Logan's Bridge or Well, you can always leave that and a lot of times sometimes they're more interesting come back a different way. Yeah. Yeah. They moved it around on the wide beaver to see her. And if you went in there early evening and the are active, it would be really fun to see them. Um, It's rare to see a beaver there because they usually I think it would really be cool. I I I think the trail is so short there anyway. If you could just make it kind of a beaver viewing spot that would really be great. Maybe could um I'm traveling next week for about Oh. Um I thought um why you can I put you in here? Um to work that out. Sure. And maybe if you

show it to him, then he could um and do you know what trail he's what area he's talking about? Do you want to be a part of that in your association with Bartholomew Evan? Um, sure. Yeah. So, while while we're talking, let me interrupt for just a second. I'm going to pass around my iPad with four photos I took today. I emailed them all to you, but you can take a look at the first two are uh well, the first one is the Beaver Deceiver, as it was this morning. The next one is the dam that's just upstream from that. And and I took a third picture. It doesn't really do it justice. Upstream from that dam, there is a very large pond that kind of above the the grain to the railroad tracks. Yeah. And then there's two other pictures about that show the culver and work road and the water backing up there. And I'll talk about that in a minute. They from you. Are they from you? Oh my goodness. Have somewhat of a plan for the viewers now. I think so. Okay. And this um so should we call in not Mike son or the is his partner though his partner yes I will get to that when we were ready to move on button [Music] so the third picture is this is this whipper wheel button Okay, so I'm passing around some images

on on my iPad. They're the first two show the beaver deceiver on Bartholomew, which seems to be working great. Uh, and it shows the beaver dam a little bit upstream from that, which there's a pretty substantial pond behind that thing. I've gotten several emails from House Fog over the last month or so um saying that he's quite happy that the wet area behind his house that's part of Arc Ames um south of that walkway where the the old bridge was is filling with water. And he was he thought it might be beavers doing it. He was saying if there's feavers, you know, can we just leave them alone because it's so wonderful that there's water there and I get the mosquitoes and and the other coffins there. So I I went and and took there's four four photos there for everybody going around. So I went and and told Evan, I battled the the wild roses to get down to that. There's no beaver activity. It looks what happened. What looks like happened is a log drifted across horizontal across the opening and it's backing up the water a little bit. The water's flowing through that cover pretty freely. It's a big cover. It's much bigger than the cover button. Oh, here's a log. I was like not sure what I was looking at. And so I I don't really see a need for beaver deceiver in there for now. I'm I'm I'm a little bit apprehensive that if that log is moved from there, all that water is going to go rushing through there and Russell's not going to be too happy. But so I would just say let's leave it as it is for now. I think it's I think it's encouraging when a neighbor who actually appreciates the beavers. Um because we've haven't we

found beavers on on road that have been shot. Yeah. Yeah. So, somebody's been after them and uh you know taken taken the matter in their own hands and decided to uh dispatch the beavers. So, I Amanda mentioned having John Ethan come down and take a look at our beaver deceiver. I will give him a call and try to schedule something. There is the beavers did build mud around the the fence that protects the clover which he expected them to do. There's a couple sticks inside that fence. I don't know if they dropped in there. The beaver somehow dropped it in there. Um but it's running well. The water was really running strongly uh this morning. I can be cam and I can have while he's in town. One of the advantages of a of a maintenance contract which um that water is very low on that on that Ames property when I actually initially asked. Yeah. And it was it possible to maybe build bridge. It might be relatively cheaper to do the water now just in the event beavers come back in there because you can almost walk to get your feet. you Oh, you're talking about that lane way to connect from where Fifer is to as that way you get a almost across town trail. Yeah, that's that that's an issue. Uh uh is it Rob McCarthy presented that to us and uh we have a member of the inland wetlands committee who maybe can can give us some advice about if we wanted to explore claims. Um how much specificity do we have to come before your commission Michael determine

whether that's a project that might be a it's variable. I mean, if you're a scout, it's next to [Music] nothing. So, I if you wanted to look into that, Bill and And were you interested in that too, Fred? Yes. Uh, I can send the two of you the info I have. Fred may already have this, but um, Rob McCarthy had a prototype for a bridge that could possibly work. And Rob's not planning, is he? I think he did. Okay. I don't know if they'd have a role and and Russ also sent me a design for a bridge um that I think was used in Scandinavia and they both seem really interesting interesting concepts. Um that would be great to run a bridge through there. There there is state money available for that. I I uh know the woman that used to run the recreational trails grant program quite well. She's she's the chair of the Deep River Land Trust. Um she's she's retired, but and I know Kim Bradley who now runs that grant program, there will be definitely state monies for this. And this is exactly the type of uh initiative that deep wants to fund something to build connect trails and and and have longer trails that cross a town or whatever. So that would be a wonderful thing to work and do. Be wonderful. I don't hike too much down here. You like long long walks? Yeah, I did like eight this morning in East East East Rock of all places, but the um it uh that will be a key connection. Yeah, it's been coveted by many. the idea. A lot of bikers especially you can almost go from four for I think four mile river there's a little piece that comes over and then it's a public road the one that goes to that back property on by Flat

Rock and then you have a little roadwalk on Flat Rock to get to um McCullik and then probably up in Mccullik and then back to Ames and across and that of course goes to the I'm many times and then from there you can go to big break. I feel like this kind of got put on the back burner because this came up about a year ago and we haven't I mean we've been busy but so so like what would be the next step? I I think that the next step would be to to maybe you guys could touch base with Rob McCarthy who was really interested in getting involved in this and just come up with I don't know how determinative if it's feasible to actually run something through. They're giving the designs they suggested an idea of what it might cost and then we could find if we have a plan we could see what type of per needed whether it'd be okay to run something through there. I mean it would certainly be affecting what you'd have to put something. Yeah. What comes first? Do we decide if it's permissible first before we get a plan? Get a plan. I I that's evolving actually because they don't read the regulations. the other members. And there's a whole provision for uses that are permitted uses as of right, which not it's not one of those, but they're also conservation related uses that are permitted under that same section 4. And that's what I've been arguing with these trail improvements. really they're provided they really don't have any significant environmental impact they should be just approved and we're on a roll I mean the commission has approved a number of them relatively easily with minimal information the more structural

stuff then you get into liability might have to be designed by a an engineer because you don't want it to collapse or or injure somebody because it is on municipal property. So, it's a little different than just a a couple of poles that scout small, you know, not if I remember Rob's idea was using these machines, right, that have these like putting pillars down. Um, so it was pretty significant. Yeah, that could, you know, the more you disturb the weapon, the You had a problem with a bridge that was it Bartholomew that didn't get approved or was it somewhere else? Bartholomew. Yeah. So I don't know if that was personality is more I've been not designed. Well the design I think the design there were two designs and one of them was approved and the other one it was the suspension bridge that was not approved. Um, and that was the suspension bridge was to because it was so difficult to, as Fred and I found out, trying to put a post in to support the bridge, roots and rocks, and Yeah. It was um really did need a pile driver. That's what you needed. Yeah. Yeah. So the more disturbance you have building a structure, but also if the if the water if the structure starts before the the wetlands that might, you know, I'm just not that familiar with Yeah. It's interesting though. I' I've done some hiking in in Maine and and some there's some pretty interesting elevated walkways. I wouldn't call them I mean I guess

they're ridges, but they're more like elevated areas and then you have places in Florida, but I'm not going to hang my hat on anything in [Music] Florida, right? But there, you know, the Ottabon Society in Florida has a two mile elevated walkways. So, you know, somebody's been in the wetlands um probably up to their chest and there's alligators and they're They pray for all we have to deal with their beavers. Yes. God's snakes. But um the ones the ones I've hiked in Maine are also on Ottabon Main Ottabon Society trails. Does it do you know anybody at Ottabon? They might pass along their Well, I was thinking who's the woman we we asked to come on the commission and she said she was too busy. She's the trails person for [Music] clerk whether she would give us she has insight. Alex actually does most of this. He's there. She's there. She does like checking to see who owns that land and doing the Alex before. He's the one that actually does the trail, builds the bridges and stuff like that. If we could just get a consultation I know. I know. Do you think a design or so is what we actually need for a a walkway? How deep do they have to go? How the footings? Yeah. Gravel because it it to me it's hard doing it without I just go in with a post hole digger. Bring a 4x6 drop some quick drawings of that and you'd be done. That's a plan. I mean

it's easy. That would be Yeah. So another good thing about getting a recommendation from concentrated or audience presentation say this is a technique that's been approved you know and used by blah blah blah blah and I think that substantiates our well Connecticut Connecticut Ottawan does have I don't know how many how many preserves around the state and I'm sure they've probably got someplace that build a bridge. Well, and I wonder if um over at Stuart McKini if they don't have any kind of Yeah, I mean they're they're common. So yeah, doing it and doing it with sensitivity for the wet one. So look, how about how about this? I'll send um you and Fred the the plans for the two bridges. I'll contact Claire and let her put us in touch with Alex or whoever thinks it's appropriate that we can look there and say, "Hey, if this was on your property, what would you guys do? Could you build a bridge here?" And and since we we have a little bit of money, we we might even see if you need an engineer to look at that job. Was the town who was the town's engineer that you and Amanda worked with on who? Tom Metaf. Is he still associated with the town? I don't I don't know. But I um um I could probably have uh Don Gerber in mind take a look at he's an engineer and and he's actually building very large bridges. I mean um automobile bridges for the town line. Okay. So that would be great. Yeah. And

that that'll be a start so we can just get a sense of you know this is doable and and uh I think it's with the low water it was opportunistic to not have to wade into a few years ago. There's no way. Yeah. It would be right. So, I mean that does bring up the issue to me that although the water comes back up, do you need to build need to make your construction account for that possibility or we need to do something to regulate the water flow? Maybe put a deceiver in that spot or to keep the water moving through or you know. Yeah, I if it overflowed it probably be very rare though. Um but yeah, is that beaver just super patented? Didn't look like that complicated design. Yeah, I don't think it's all that complicated know what they're doing and they have the equipment and skill to put it together. So anyway, so let's I don't want to hang up on that too long. I wanted to mention though, interestingly enough, as we're bringing some nice segways into the topics, um, at Joan's request, I reached out to the conservation and said, they're doing a series of talks at the library. Um, and I love to to coordinate with you and do something about beavers in town. So this is a quote from their the minutes of their mini meeting. Collaboration with open space on co-sponsoring a beaver seminar conservation commission would like it like it to include both the pros and cons of installing beaver deceivers along with their limitations and woodland impact. B Campbell will reach out to me. So it's interesting that they apparently have at least some members that are

dubious about beaver deers or beavers in general. Well, I mean the beaver deed allows the beavers to, you know, live in that area. So it's basically a decision. Do you want beavers or not? I wonder what the comments were. Well, that back when he was on the commission, George James was was a he did not like beavers and his tack was that they destroy a lot of forest. If you if you go along Whooperwood and look at the Ames, there's a lot of dead trees in there. Uh and and he thought that was damaging. On the other hand, if you look at some of the stuff Evan has written in our in our beaver science, that's a that's quite a vibrant ecological community there of of reptiles and birds and whatever, you know, and over time, as Evans said, it evolves into a meadow and, you know, it's just part of the natural process. So when you look at when you look around the this country and around the world, the number of places that people who have who realize the benefits of having beavers on their streams and wetlands, the the people who are are if you want if you want to rewater the west, the west of the United States and stop forest fires and and water water crisis get the beavers back and England is doing the same thing and they and Scandinavia is doing the same thing and I who knows maybe the Russians are doing the same thing because they but um all over the world beavers the benefits of having beavers in your community are is um manifold so it's a uh uh on the other hand, you have a lot

of people who are, you know, farmers, for instance, who have over the last two or three hundred years have have cleared flood planes where beavers used it used to be beaver meadows. They um they object to having beavers back because obviously it flooded floods their very fertile fields and she just grew rice. Civilization against nature. Yeah. Well, moving on. Uh, um, when Russell, we seem to be a a traveling group. And when Russell was, I believe, might have been in Italy. In any event, he was out of the country. So, Ann and I talked to Steve Perry, our ctographer, and kind of accepted one of his proposals. And after going back and forth about having him walk with his sophisticated backpack backpack electronic device, which is going to cost us over 5,000 to do something, we we got him down to a proposal a bit over 3,000. Um that we would provide him with electronic data for the trails. Uh, and initially he was suggesting that we use a garden unit and he looked into possibly borrowing borrowing one or buying one. They roughly go for about $600 for the unit that he was recommending. Uh, but we kind of surprised Ann and I think saying, "Hey, you guys can do it with Avenza," uh, which is a free app. uh and he he I took him at his word and and he seems to be moving ahead with trying to capture data uh from all over. We actually met in addition to talking to Steve. We talked to Emily Olson from Yukon CLA which is kind of their Yukon GIS

headquarters. Emily was saying she could capture a lot of the trail dad. Steve said I can do that too. So apparently he's working out and I'll let Russell take it from there. So I didn't speak with him. I have email exchanges. So um you've heard me say before Avenza is not the easiest man or easiest mapping tool to use. A lot of frustration after coming back from Italy and spent five days figuring out Avenza. So I didn't I did McCullik uh two days ago. So I all the new trails and I sent it to Steve and said is this acceptable just perfect? So that's that's just the free Avenza app. It's not the pro. Um I made a few mistakes in doing it. I tempt everybody, but it's hard to actually you got to buy other drivers to be able to open open the uh the files, but you can open it in in Google Earth or you can open it in Google Maps if I save it correctly, which I figured out to do. So yeah. Yes. And I I I did in Cull and had to go back and forth. Went all the way from Whipperwill to Flat Rock entrances all the way up to um Tree in the Gap Trail and that entrance on Whipperwill and and crossed some of the some of the old Line Land Trust in Le Allen Preserve and included those in the map. So he will have a you know a map that's got the new red trail and he asked if if he should keep the old red trail that's going to close on the map and said no because we're going to close it. Uh in that email back and forth though he also thinks he'll have maps for the five areas that we wanted to do. We barely want to figure out what we're going to do with Bartholome. Um and he will probably only need pin drop information. I can do that easily. So I sent him a note. I haven't heard back. Are there any

other areas that you need to need to be fully mapped by by Avenza? If he gives me that information and he gives us the GPS maps he's doing, then we'll know what we have left to do. Um everything that will come out of him, his work, and now that I figured out how we can put the Avenza into the Google maps, and we can actually get all of that on Connecticut Trail Finder with minimal effort once we have all the data. So I and I I'll be able to work with those folks and and do the intro, you know, the the data set that you have to write up for that and then I think by the end of the June, July, we should be done and have I don't know if everything went on to get trails by then, but that's kind of the hope. We'll see. Great. That's very exciting. Great job. Well done to connect you with Peter. Wait till wait till I find out from Steve. I'm gone again, but I'm here all next week. I'm gone the 27th to the 9th. May to June. In May to June. Very good. Europe again. This time to Portugal. Um but I think if he can give me the information of what he needs, I can have that all done before I leave. I think not. I'll get Peter and his assistant. Yes. I was going to say if you need help, please feel free to work with Andrew to call on that. Peter um should have a vented. He took an adventure course. Yeah, he he actually used Avengers to do some of the the trail mapping. Yeah. Not mapping, marking, you know, where he had to do work. So, I know he he's at least reasonably competent in it. Um it's it's translating it and exporting it and sending it is what I had to was having trouble with. Did Did you see um Steve's email yesterday afternoon about Venza Pro? Yeah. Okay. And then my his response to my question was you don't even need Avenger Pro now. So we we'll see if that's true or not by

the time we if there's that much more data we have to connect. So that's an update. I I'm hoping it's not a lot from what he said because he's using LAR. He's using events of map and spread it out enough. Our trails are on it. They're little dotted lines and this from the LAR data. So, but they're not marked. You know, there's where there's intersections, you have no idea where you are. Like Lelay Allen versus McCullik. And by the way, our map is incorrect. McCullik shows going into Lelay Allen. It's got the wrong colors of the Lelay Allen trails. So, if you try to follow the colors, you get quite confused. Oh, no. And then there's also a loop when you come in off the whipper wall on the yellow trail. caught. I didn't even know it was there. So my wife was yelling because we just went in a circle. Says, "Yeah, we did." So I've got that mark. You can you can do a drop point. Go this direction if you want to hit three of the if your ultimate goal is three in the gap trail. So we we there is there's still an issue that's never been resolved of exactly what the parameters of the noise open space and what's themes is. I have an old survey that was done a long time ago. Remember he mentioned that before and that might be the one need more mapping. Yeah. I it may mean it may need be that we may need to to have Dick Gates or somebody come up and look at that map and just give us a sense because um the one thing I note about that if you look at the town GIS map it shows that sheep's ledge is a little noise and I have a number of documents that show that um the land trust and subsequently open space bought the sheep's sledge parcel from Steve.

So, it's definitely his flant and not his flank. I think that's why he wanted the camera to from the town. So, yeah, that's you want to mention it. Yeah. So, he he had some concerns with the exact boundary lines of some of the open space areas and he he arranged with the town through Greg getting back and forth. is I'm not quite sure what camel data is, but it leads into the GIS mapping that the town uses. So, he'll verify the boundary edge of our line on the map. So, I I just to amplify on that, um I put uh Steve in contact with one of the chronic fellows, Thomas, and she also personally with a vendor which puts together a GIS map on the town website. uh and she's been very helpful uh in cooperative working with Steve and I hope that we can work with her in the past. I know that in the past there's been some um open spaces viewed the mapping stuff that we've developed as being proprietary and it was not an inclination to share it with Melinda. I I don't I'm not of that mind at all. Uh, and I'm I'm happy with having she can actually put up our trails on her GIS maps on on the town site, too, so we can have them available as many different locations as possible. She's great. If you've ever had a conversation with her or needed to work with her in any capacity, she's smart, she's polite, she's effective, she's she's great. She's great. I I like Melissa a lot. She has a project with us that she's been really helpful. She was super helpful to me. Yeah, she not she's very smart. She not only does lime old lime, she does blind and she does a lot of training for other assessors around the state which I

think is a big Yeah, for sure. Old line was lucky to have her. What is her name? Melinda Kronfel. She's like in the assessor's office, but she's like she's really knowledgeable. She's just great. So I may may come back to the commission and we get into the Connecticut trails if there's some additional work there. Maybe some additional volunteers and help from see what we'll see how that pans out. So I I one thing I I want to do is to get Steve's work done uh this fiscal year and I think that will be done. But moving to Connecticut trails is I think going to be mostly volunteer work. I don't know if that would just absolutely do. It won't be particularly expensive. I think we can use what he provides. I think we can use what he provides. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did you did I did you see what I sent you from Emily Wilson? Yeah. So, apparently there's two two aspects to the info on Connecticut Trail Finders. One is actually the maps and the other narrative which probably talks about what the properties are, right? and the the trail, the makeup of the trail. Is it dirt? Is it rocky? Is it steep? Is it ADA compliant? You know, I don't know if we I'm not quite sure what we who would identify that to say it's either right or wrong because I don't think we should I don't think we know enough to say if it's ADA compliant. I'm pretty sure nothing is. I would very doubt I would doubt very much that any of our trails are. I that that was something I looked into about uh seeing if we could have an ADA compliant trail to the to the overlook for the barbers and and so you could probably make in the gap compliant to the pond. Yeah, that's that would be one or or the other thing would be to to

maybe make them creek compliant to where we are viewing SP. But I think the having having what what you might term informally an accessible trail. Going from that to an ADA trail is quite a bit more detailed in terms of the base you need for the trail and everything else. I remember it would be being pretty extensive. So this path around their property is 80 a um certified and so they have certain specs because we had looked into that when we were looking at Bartholomew making a cross path Bartholomew you remember and it was very extensive that they had to do other than tree in the gap though I don't think there's probably anything that's wide enough that you could actually rece so the the last thing I'd mention and I' like to do this this fiscal year again is and Steve has got that as part of his project as he will he will give us the materials for a sign. Uh so I think it might this might be an appropriate time to look at our kiosk and find out what exactly is on the kiosk. Do we need to hand have any paper on there to be handed out anymore? Uh do we want to get a big aluminum sign with this map for each property? uh do a nice sign. We have money for this year. Yes, exactly. Yep. Yeah. So, would you have time to to I think that's in his proposal. The remember you said the size of the PDF files. I'll have to look at that again. I'll have to ask you about that. Well, I also see I was looking at the signal today and I was thinking to myself, it would have been nice if you brought a little tape measure so I could measure how big those signs are. I I

don't know where they came from, but they're kind of paper plastic. Try to go for aluminum sign much sharper. I think the other thing I brought to me is the little signin book. It's been there who knows how long. Yeah. So hopefully he'll send that information this field together. And then so and then the last thing I wanted to mention for this is is this is an opportunity for us to to pinpoint u points of interest along our trail where we have those the two beaver observation areas or the games caves or or whatever. So So for example, I used I did a few like the erratics you mentioned the large glacial erratic some of the stream crossings made a comment on tree in the gr tree in the gap when you go uphill muddy when rainy. Those kind of comments I put in. Okay, great. So, do you need any help in terms of like any advice to we want it to all kind of send you hey on that property we shouldn't pay like that. Would that be helpful Russell? I think so. If you if you know that somebody say, "Hey, by the way," and between then stewards, you and I can figure that out. Um, this is an interesting feature that I think we should put as a marker on on the maps. And I don't know how he's going to present the maps, whether those will be there or if you'd have to have the electronic forms and be able to I'm not exactly sure what he's going to sends us the stuff in a little bit of a quandry in terms of where we find exactly. The good thing is though, Aenza free, it works. And actually, if we ultimately need to do additional mapping for Connecticut Trail Finder, as long as

you do the Avenza map, no matter how to export it, that's actually sufficient for them to make the maps for Well, I you know, feel free to to reach out to them, Russell, and said, you know, I'm I'm curious about what the final product is going to look like. You have something you did you've done for camp or whatever that's going to be like this. Can you show me that? He said he was on the last map, whichever that meant. Okay. It's interesting because I was under the impression that he said he was really busy this month. Uh and he would give us that month to data collect and then he was going to get into it in general. Maybe he's jumped ahead. I think he he was more pleased with the data he could find than I thought he was or thought he anticipated. So I think that that's part of the problem. Did he do the Canton Land Trust? Did he what? Did he do the Canton Land Trust properties the president? Yeah. I I'll send you his proposal, Bill. He he I think references land trust work for Okay. Other connections. Michael, I know when you were interested in rural pools. Is that something? Are there any examples or any I have at uh the vernal pools in Champlain North. Okay. I I have to relearn and and make them point of interest, but um I did I kind of redid the survey this year. I was working with the conservation commission, but Gary Gregory and I had a falling out. So, I've got to reconnect and get some teams together. But on Champlne North, I found there's a a wetland training pool be on the red trail beyond

um Barbazon what's left of the Barbazan oak. And that has wood frogs and spotted salamanders and um marble salamanders. And I got marble salamanders again this year when I did it. Then there's another pool still on the red that would be walking away from or towards um Hillwood West the parking area there. That's more is that what's the condition of that? It it's the hydro cycle not as good as the one the training pool near the Barbazano. That means it just dries out faster. So we have to have a wet year to be successful. That's better for No, they access it in that from that location. Is there maybe we're not talking about the same thing. They access the if you come in from um the Barbaz Trail is fine. If you come in from um Hillwood West Yeah. And if we have a lot of rain, two inches or three inches of rain we had this week, the entry trail was a little well doesn't need a bridge, but I think just a little elevated. Yeah. Kind of past to get past the u the kiosk. Okay. From the road to the kiosk. I'm also wondering, do we even own the land the trails on off the road? I haven't done I don't know that question came up in my mind. Um whether or not that entry trail right off the road is actually on town property or the town property in a bit near the stone wall. It looks like it's

the two adjacent property owners that we kind of walk up one of them. But that's another issue. I wouldn't worry about that. It could use a little wood almost like we did on um the high school project, right? Kind of this little low, you know, you need couple inches off the ground kind of for the whipper only when it's wet. Is is there what you would call like the classic or perfect example of a rural pool Michael that you could indicate maybe rural pool like to think about that I have a question about how close like if we point vernal pools out to people are we endangering these pools are they going to like trample around them and like is there a way to kind of like maybe that's anybody's standing in the antill but I don't know I would be nervous about it. I wouldn't want to I mean it's public information theoretically if we posted it. I would be concerned if people might be looking for marble collectors could be looking for marble salamanders because they aren't that common. spotted salamanders. I mean, you theoretically you need a permit from Zeke to collect them. Even as a kid, you can't collect tadpoles legally anymore, even the only thing funnel foot traffic to these sites. Is that potentially endangering the conditions? Let's count on the points of interest. We were just down at East Rock

today and a lot of we stopped there signs. It must I It's on a bird migratory thing. It's have different bird little plaque with colored different birds and so forth. It didn't seem to be I don't think you're disturbing anything by doing that but it wasn't veral pool but you know stay away from the mud but well yeah they're not being impacted now and it's something we would think about I mean obviously I you know we've taken about 50 people to the I call it the training pool and they all saw the spot in the Marvel Salamander Are there fairy fairy shrimp? Fairy shrimp are in the the pool near West. Okay. Which was the first time I've seen fairy shrimp when in your training pool that there must be obligate species that that are keeping the frogs and salamanders coming back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there there's a lot of green frogs in the training pool, so I think they're consuming a lot of the wood frog tadpoles. So, one last time on the points of interest, what you can do is take any current map and mark the location on it and just send it to me that way. we can be sure to position it correctly as as time goes on. But so there are things that you would suggest that do as points of interest or items of interest. Okay. That's one way to do it. Easy easy and quick. Just as a do did we include Horseland Creek? Are we doing No, that's that's not proposal. I didn't I didn't ask him that.

We should probably have just a little possibly lost in that final description what you see on there because we we have that observation site we put up then you probably do that somehow. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I can we can talk to him and we can be a little extra just one small page for that. Okay. Uh which kind of leads into on this to to the Rockfall Foundation. I I had written to Harvard management about the sign. I would say let's go ahead with the sign as is that everybody look at it was great catch for you to bring that to our attention Joan and the iterations of the science. So, I think it's perfect to go ahead with that. We still have a little bit of money. That sign is roughly $100 is more or less. Well, it depends if you want one or two. I I would say let's go with one. Uh we can't really use that money for a location out of that property. No, one would say put two up at Horses Creek. Is that what you meant? Where would the second go? Um I don't know. I hadn't thought about it. I was just looking at the bottom line. Um I think it's like I I can't remember off hand, but it was really two for the price of one. Yeah. I I would I would not that I'm just wondering if you know and I haven't been down there in a long time, but you know, there's there's an end of the path that's closer to where the proposed dock is eventually going to be. I mean, I would think that something near the proposed dock would be good because eventually, you know, if this gets

built, there's going to be a lot of foot traffic there that, you know, may never wander down the trail. I think there's a lot of variables with that that I'm a little bit apprehensive for. I I know that one of the things that has been expressed to me repeatedly is that um as part of this it's interesting that deep seems to have dual priorities and one of the things that's expressed to me repeatedly is that that they want to make fishing available wherever possible in a location that was the case with the Pent River Bridge and it's I think certainly also the case at Horseneck Creek And on the other hand, I I deal on Gateway with deep people saying stay off the marsh. So I mean there's there's certain conflict there. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that you know I I don't remember the sequence of events but the um what was that? The road down there by um Watchrock. Yep. where the state was actually I mean we we wanted the state to caucus right we wanted the state to sort of we do have we do have a sign up there which we do but you know if they're going to sort of assert authority and enforce that aspect of their regulations it would be deeply vexing to me that they would allow people to trample the marsh next to that dock just so they could go fishing. Especially I I I think that the case that I think of as a I I think that's the the one area that is um has been

cited as a potential rare and endangered species habitat. And um and therefore it it has a higher it's elevated to a higher protection status. And um um yeah, you I don't know. Do you feel like we might be ruffling some to use a bad metaphor? [Music] 90 and there's two. Maybe what we could do is get two but only put the one up and then once the dock is up, maybe we'll see a need to put one at the end of the dock or depending on how easy. One is $90, two are 6. Okay. Economically, and it's an 8 by10, so that's just a little more narrow than this. Yeah. Like Joan says, and we'll have in her back pocket if we need if a doc goes in. I just two cents. I just I hate to think of as signs as as litter, but um you know, too many signs on a piece of property that I mean just uh begins to look like, you know, square 8 by10 is I think pretty pretty innocuous, you know, and if you've got one at one end and one at the other. Yeah, it's just too well taken. I I I I want to just do a little quick um background discussion u because Christine had asked and I think it would be helpful for for all of us just to have a sense of what was been going on at Horset Creek. So roughly 20 years ago that property was given to the town by what was in environmental protection. It was just death back then.

the open and it was given to the open space commission. Open space commission was was written on that document. Um open space apparently worked with whoever was um with harbor management at the time and it was considered not to be a viable boat access location by by the then harbor management. Yeah. and then it kind of got lost and and uh to be honest with you when when that property was raised as hey why aren't we using this property I really had no idea it was open space property um and we then we then there was an issue between uh who would who would basically uh have management of that property harbor management wanted to to have a a boat access uh Amanda Blair who was chair of open space at the time uh felt that uh that needed to be studied to make sure that there wasn't negative environmental impacts uh and it got to be a little bit of a back and forth and um what what happened was that the committee was was formed and do you want to talk a little bit about your committee's deliberations just very generally Fred? So the committee was composed of harbor management, open space and uh inland wetlands and there were six two interrupted Fred was the chair of that committee and and he he was uh he could be a secretary of state for United States. There was some spirited discussion. So good. Um, but yeah, we kept, you know, we met for about nine months and uh trying to hammer out the pros and cons of all these ideas. I mean, bottom line is it ended up in a

a kind of commitment to uh to share the uh the property. So, open space taking care of the upland area and giving our manage management the blessing to go ahead and pursue this uh this dock which is for launching kayaks, not so much fishing. And uh so that's where where it stands. But I think Harbor Management really had this vision of having a park there and uh more of a park lake setting. And so anyway, is there any parking there? There's a little bit of parking about two or three. Well, I would say three spaces, maybe four if you have a small car. Yeah. If you had a kayak, we may have to do the uh redo the parking signs that were there. I don't know. Yeah. So, so the the the plan or or the the thought was that when the town submits a its application to deem and it gets there's approval to actually construct a dock. uh and money is found for that project that there would be a little minimal impact roadway leaning so you could go drop your kayak off and come around and park. Uh we Michael and I want to a little lame because if you're a kayaker certainly portage it 100 ft. Well, that's that's the initial plan. You know, I I did I'm not sure where where the status of this. Michael and I went to a harbor management meeting and said, you know, we we would like to go walk that property with you and see where you envision this little roadway to drop off your types would go. Uh and so once we know that and and know uh what some of the disturbance of that property would be that we could we could

then have some gravel put down and build a more proper parking lot. and and we never had the opportunity to do that. We were we were to meet with them. Uh it was cancelled and we didn't reschedu. The other things I can add to that is um we had to go to the zoning commission to put in the fence. We were done forever to put in the fence and the fence has been in what almost a year and the docket is still yet to be the application to be submitted. Trails are in. we, you know, spent money on the nature trail assessments and stuff. So, our activities are done. So, I'm going to make sure that um anybody when they do, if they ever get the approval, they're going to have to go to zoning with a detailed plan, the circle, and where it's going to be and where the parking is. And I'm sure the our our neighbor Amanda will be watching and commenting on that. So I mean we had to go for the fence and they signed the zoning signed off on it. The reason you have to go to zoning is any activity within 100 ft of the coast is in the coastal area management area. So any activity on the upland um is is under the control of zoning. And so grading and the parking and the turning circle is much more significant than putting in a fence. Is it um I don't remember the regulation but I thought the cam the cam zone was 120 ft. It actually extends a thousand but they look at a 100. Okay. You know that 100 ft is and it's all I mean it's not a large lot. It's only 3 acres. Most half of it's marsh.

So you don't get lost on this trail. You probably can always see the car. At least near winter. Right. Is the hold up with the is they're trying to do it themselves, but I don't know what the hold up, but but I I I I've been told that, you know, that that like like us, uh, Harvard management is a word of volunteers and and some of them are working have jobs and they're trying to fit in as best they can. I I'm not going to comment on their time. That's their issue. I don't think that um from my one encounter with um when Mike Barnes um had the person the deep person that he was working with on his own property over on ThreeMile River um that that guy seemed to think that there was no problem at all, you know. So um and um I said well there is a an an issue with rare and endangered species and he said oh ospreys aren't the kind ospreys aren't endangered and I said yeah but what about salt mar sparrows and um some of the other um I it's funny I remember when that when that uh legislation was was put in that that there would be um deep would have a whole uh rare endangered area people working on keeping an eye and they map the whole state with you know Yeah. blobs. Yeah.

It's a blob. It's in the blob. Just to comment, um, DE does not deny docks. They don't deny docks. So, it'll be approved and it'll be approved with conditions. Well, it might have to be bigger and more expensive. And it depends on how um h how vigilant the neighbor is because once the application is submitted and a legal notice is posted, someone can get 25 signatures to force a public hearing and that slows the whole I mean if you do that can slow the whole process down. they will still issue the permit for the dock, but it could take two years depending on how much if there's any opposition. So, it'll be interesting to see if that happens. The other thing is is that if we do have money in it, if we are concerned about having rare and endangered certainly plants, I mean, we have access and we have access to a botist. So, now would be the time to look for the plants. Let me get to that in a second. So, I want just Can I just um triple back to the signs before we go on to something? Sure. The We're not leaving the property yet. Huh? We're not leaving the property yet. We're not leaving. We're still Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Well, then you could go on. I just wanted Okay. Yeah. Do we have I have I have a four about a 8 foot 4x4 in my garage. But I'm wondering is that going to be overkill for a sign that's this sign and not rather than in um uh

metal you freedom to buy that beard or wherever we have the money. I have some metal posts at fence post green metal fence post that you with holes in the back so you can put our a bolt through and and put a sign on it. I think that would be the least intrusive and eas offered to uh harvest some of our cedar for posts. So that that offer still stands and that that would make a very natural Yeah. could be better than like this. It could be a smaller. We use feeder posts around the bar. Remember for the information that would be better and the ant. So I'll take you up on the cedar if it small, you know, to accommodate this. And that way Chris, it's a small, it's a thin aluminum, but he may need to put a a hole through it. Yeah, we can drill a hole through it. So, maybe like a 3 inch diameter be about the right. So, you can tell me what size you think is appropriate. Yeah, we'll find find what's appropriate. Okay, thank you. So, g getting back to the property, one the last thing I wanted to mention is obviously uh there was some news relatively recently about the ordinance that was suggested by her. Oh, now I need a chocolate. I I I happened to run into Jim Lampost at a Lime Art Association fundraiser Friday night and he asked me, "What did you think of this or not?" sex and he wrote to me Monday and said propos what your thoughts and I wrote him a letter that apparent released to right who's moved from the blue

London and I also sent an email to June explaining you know this is what I what I gave to the two peers on the board of selectman and it was um said I'm happy that all three selectman support our involvement in that property including you who's important because her husband is on harbor management harbor management Michael and he was I haven't been to a meeting but harbor management and then uh zoning well he no I think resigned from zoning well now yes he's out zoning but he's Arbor man. Yeah. So that's and as far as the property goes and one of the reasons I I think it's kind of special is that as part of this project we had Juliana who is a PhD from Yukon and she she is their coastal forest salt mar specialist for Yukon and she walked through that property with me and Michael outlining things that we could include on our Gaia trail walk and she said you know this is really an amazing property. She said there are no invasives on this property. Wow. and and so and and the interesting thing about that about fair landing jump interesting thing about that you know there's briars and stuff like that that most people would say this is jump but you know the it's actually plays a role and I remember was it neing when we were talking about that she Michael Barnes might have said let's cut down all these virus she said didn't he didn't use the word briars he said we need to get rid of the prickers and say what do you mean and well there are pricker bushes all over and then we need to get rid of them so

he was going to go in with a tractor and m all the all the stuff and actually did and had and I don't know I think Amanda called the police and so they have an interesting relationship Um but anyway, that was the that was the level of of understanding about what coastal forest I think in one public meeting I So anyway, it's it's a really special area. Um so we do have a little money left in that grant. So the two things I have one thing that Michael alluded to is is that when Juliana visited us, she went through the forest pretty carefully, but she didn't want more to walk on the marsh. Uh and we could have somebody look at the marsh and and determine what plants are growing on there. It's a title marsh, not a salt marsh. What plants are growing on there? My thought would be um you know sensitive I maybe not like everybody. If if a dock is is practicable, I would I would use it. I'd love to have access to the boat. Uh so if we find something I don't want to basically be seen as as putting up a blow impediment to to the dock. Uh but on the other hand you want to protect something that's in there then might be endangered or valuable. So that would be one option is to have somebody come in and take a look at that biologist Chris Mangles or whatever. The other option that that someone suggested to me and I'm not quite sure what the parameters of the property are uh and how much land would be basically um I'm trying to think the direction the southeast where the dock might go. But I noticed that um Amanda Blair has a osprey nest on her property that we see from our house and my wife loves to watch that. And the

last two springs, there's been battles among osprey about who is going to occupy that nest. We're getting to the point where there's more osprey than nests and and putting up an osprey in that property might be an interesting option to look into. I'd just like to know h how close to to the dock, how far away from the dock would it have to be disturbed, but that might be something to look into. Osprey build nest on you have to worry about that on the top of the railroad bridge. Yeah. Moving railroad bridge. There's an osprey nest up right off Linda Marsh's property that has not been occupied for like four or five years. Um eagles took over and they won't they will not nest there. That's But if they're using the other one down near you, they probably But I I don't I don't know the gentleman that the the the person that has a house, Melinda Marsh. I saw him out there when I was kaying one time with a giant John Deere lawn right underneath the eagle nest. And then this p past year, I did not see their nest there. It's way in the woods now. Okay. It's It's still a location. Yes. still there. That's absolutely why. There's no ospreys in that nest. Yeah. No ospreys will will nest. Um I've seen an osprey nest on Fishers Island with a you know a pretty busy road right underneath it. It's a they built a built a nest on on one of the utility poles going along the road. So um country mice and city mice. Those are the eagles. The eagles are obviously an issue. And the other issue not to get into in any details is my wife has become friends with some other osprey watchers and and this one guy had been

watching a nest for like six years and last year um is a great white owl. Great owl killed the mother with that other nest up there. found a weed in front of our house and I found a uh was it a father? What? No, the little ones I can see, but that too much they're they're pretty against the competition. They don't want to be competing, I think, with Well, great horn dolls are are sort of the ultimate predators um in in this area. I mean, they'll they'll eat anything. I mean, including, you know, weasels and things that could bite your back. Um, anyway. Okay. Well, let's move along. But let's see if I can find some info about your masterpie. You want to talk a little bit about your tree cutting? Sure. Super quick. Um, first of all, just uh follow people probably know, but we did in fact get a wedding permit. um have it right in that binder. So we we have a permit to move forward with you know any of the activity that we have been proposed at Perry Landing. Um I don't know how long these things do they expire? Five years. Okay. Yeah. Five years. They're good. I think it's five. Yeah. And it can be extended. Yeah. Great. So um we've got all our ducks in a row there. And um after many misfires of communication and and struggling to uh feel like the

um arborist that we selected was going to be responsive and um just sort of feeling you know not very comfortable about moving forward with um we just decided to move forward with Wilcox who was the second bidder down. Um, so I think that the original guide was a thousand and will cox was uh, 1300 or something. So it's not a giant leap in expense and um, you know, I feel pretty comfortable that they're going to come when they say they're going to come. Jason Jason used to do a lot more work with open space before we had Peter out in the woods with a chainsaw. Yeah. Well, that's another though is that there are there is tree work to be done there that Peter and Isaac uh are perfectly capable of handling. So, you know, with chainsaws or No, with probably with a chainsaw be easier. I mean, Isaac took care of one thing with a hatchet, you know, obvious that that's how we went about it and it fine dealt with the situation, but I think there's probably like six to eight small trees like, you know, 4 inch diameter, 3 inch diameter, um that should come down that are either dead or are threatening some of our planting. Yeah. To them, I will copy you. Yeah, I'll I'll I can come down there. And are they when they're cutting when they're cutting trees, do they are they painting the stump with with um herbicide? Well, I don't know that they've had to cut for this purpose down there before, but yes, they should. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's another thing

we'll have to get some herbicide for them to use and uh make sure that's how they do it. Because you're talking about the Atlantis trees. Yeah. Yeah. The other ones I don't think are Atlantis. When you cut them, they respre. We used to have them came on property. You can't kill them. They re special gloves in special gloves. It's a No, I mean, you know, they're going to have gloves on to do the chainsawing, right? Right. So, that should be fine. They need a mask. Just Roundup basically. It's not. But they they need a mask when they're Sorry. They need a mask. A mask. Okay. What kind of mask? Like a co mask. An N95. Okay. Oh, it's a co. The co. What's the herbicide use? Um the N95. Some of them come with a um a little box. But just Okay. N95. Um but if you either squirt it on or paint it paint it on um tractor supplies as a gizmo that you can fill up and then it has a sponge little drill in. So, I need to get some application applicator herbicide applicator. Or you can just take a jar and a little a little paint brush and and uh paint it on and try to do it on a day when it's not too windy, but you don't want to use I don't think we want to use a spray spray bottle or something. Good to know. Uh so um we're scheduled with Will Cox for June 11th. Great.

So moving on, um Joel reminded me and I'm glad she did to to include the summer festival on there. We are all set for I presume pretty much similar location where we were before. Are you guys doing something again? I'm sure. Yeah, I will I will ask the land trust to borrow tent again. Okay. And I believe they provided us with tables and chairs. So, um I will take care of the printed material that I know uh we want if what we have I think we probably have some of the whistles and things we had last time. Yeah, we have one, two, three, five whistles. But we have we have lots of bees, lots of What is the date again of the um usually late July? Crayons, coloring books, um lots of I mean not coloring books, but coloring um paint paper. Yeah. Um, his traveling show. Yeah. Huh? Entre is traveling show. So I could give you the whole box. One one of the things I was wondering about you can yellow find a supplier that can give them to relatively inexpensive. get like a little tiny seedlings, you know, maybe 50 seedlings to hand out to to young. Does anybody have any idea who might sell them? There are lots of nurseries where you can buy those. You guys think that would be I mean, if we can't get humans, we can do like a little pack like those little

packets. Little flower packets that have just Oh, yeah. Um Yeah. flower, you know, seed packet. Yeah, seed packet. Like, I just didn't see it, but that's perfect. I mean, I think that's perfect. It's actually a sheet and you plant the sheet. Oh, like there's no Oh, they all go away or whatever. You just put the thing in the ground. Those are the shake feet. You're invented in Don't worry about pots or whatever pot. I misunderstood. Don't worry. Letting eel grass gluing the eelrass seeds to clams. Bury themselves. I guess so. Oh, that's awesome. Isn't that cool? Let the clam do the work. I got a one of those wildflower things. It came up all week. You got to be kidding. We have a rough committee. I I was I missed the last meeting we discussed our summer. Yeah. [Music] Okay. Oh, so I I very participatory. So leave it up to you guys to decide what you if you want to go to the seeds or trees or whatever. Yeah. Okay. And the only other thing I was going to mention was the website. I mentioned that. I apologize I haven't got to it because I'm involved with other stuff. We will get to that. That's basically all I have for the meeting. Does anybody else want to bring anything up or any other topics?

All set. So I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second it and cut you off. 649. [Music] That