Affordable Housing Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. All right, everybody, it is 5 p.m., and I would like to officially call our June Affordable Housing Commission meeting to order. We do have quite a few items, and I would like to, I think I need a motion for this, but I would like to move the project update to the top of the list. We have Michael Carey here, and he is only able to stay until 5.30. I don't think it's going to take us that long, but I would Um, appreciate a motion to do that.

If it's okay to motion to move the, uh, uh, to the front of the agenda. Perfect. Is there a second?

So do we have to know until we don't have a forum?

We do have.

Oh, we do.

Yes. Of regular members. And you're going to be, you're going to be Heather.

Very nice to meet you.

My apologies. That's all right. So is there a second?

Ross, second.

I did. Oh, you did second. All right. Great. All those in favor? Are there any discussion? All those in favor? Any opposed? Great. Thank you. So we are moving right into the product update. But before we do that, I just want to give everyone in the room a chance to know who is speaking in the room. And I'm going to ask that we all go around and just say who we are and why we're here. And we're going to start with Kent at the table. And I will call out to you all on Zoom as well when we get through the people in the room, okay?

Hi, I'm Kent Berry. I'm here because I believe in affordable housing, but done gently and purposefully. So that's my goal anyway.

I think we made our first selection with Ex Officio.

Heather Gagnon, 25 years in real estate, eight of those in luxury, and I absolutely believe in affordable housing, and I believe that everyone deserves a home.

Sarah Loeffler, Executive Director of Habitat for Humanity, Eastern Connecticut.

Norm Eccleston, Construction Superintendent for Habitat for Humanity.

Welcome. Cool. Thank you. I'm Sheila Ripple, the chair of the Affordable Housing Committee, and I believe in all of it as well.

Ross Sands, nine years in O-Line, and not only do I believe in it, I believe the time is now, if not now.

Fred Patton, Affordable Housing member, and I agree with everything everyone else has to say.

All right, and then we'll go with Mr. Carey.

Hello, do you want me to introduce myself?

Sure.

I am a. I'm an old lawyer. I've been with Suspend Shapiro since July 2000. And have been fortunate enough to be able to work with the town of Lyme for, I think, but about the last eight years, I think, Martha.

Yeah.

been very interesting and pleasant experience, mostly.

Great. Welcome. Thank you for being here. You're welcome. She's gone. She's gone? I thought I just went to focus on him. Okay. It was a guest. I don't know who she is, but we just have to check to see if she's trying to sign back in. Okay.

Oh, Mike Riggio is on. Hold on. Oh, hello.

All right. Hi, Mike.

And Val should be coming back in.

I think Mike's microphone is off.

I don't know why.

There you are. You got a mic?

Is Mike still muted or no? No. All right, Mike, you want to introduce yourself real quick for us?

Sure. My name is Mike Riccio. I live in Old Lyme. I'm a member of the Planning Commission. So I wanted to get a sense of what's going on with affordable housing since you've got a lot going on.

Great. Thank you and welcome. And we have another member who is here. Just introducing ourselves.

Good evening.

There's a new member of the community.

I'm the old one.

At least more than one of you two. Okay, so the moment that most of us are here right now, we would like to discuss McCulloch and where we are with things. As you know, a major milestone was achieved about two months ago now with the Planning Commission and House Happy Humanity is ready to roll with everything. We've got an architect and we've had questions about, you know, at what point do we close on this? Do we hand the property and the deed Over to Habitat for Humanity. So first of all, Ms. Shoemaker's here. I'm here.

I'm here. I'm sorry. I was just making a note on my desk. Yes. Sorry. Can you just walk us through, now that we have subdivision done, all that, could you tell us... Who is going to handle the deed correction over to Habitat? Who's responsible for that? Is it you or is it John Metcalfe?

No, we would do the closing, our office. It probably wouldn't be me because I don't really do that much real estate, if any, really. So I'd probably ask Rich Cody, who had the good fortune of doing the entire conveyance with Mr. McCulloch back in a day.

Okay, great.

So it'd either be Rich or Eric Callahan. They're our main transactional guys at this point. Okay. Much more so than me. I think I mentioned earlier, Martha, that I need to talk to Tom Metcalf, who's been the engineer working with us on this and really carrying the ball with it on the approvals. I just need to know whether the subdivision approval has been perfected in the sense that the plan has been finalized, subject to whatever terms and conditions the planning commission put on it. and given to the chairman of the planning commission to sign so they can be recorded. I think then we would have done everything we need to do with regard to the subdivision approval, and I can speak with Sarah or Sarah's lawyer can speak with me or with my lawyers about how to actually do the transaction, which shouldn't be in terms of very difficult to be a quick claim, I think. Of those two of those lots with some condition terms and conditions. I do think I need to speak with Sarah though about. About. Habitat use of the ARPA money. I think we've had some some Martha mentioned some ideas about how to do that. Just just not that not that they won't be able to use it. Just how that will happen. um and i guess whether that'll happen before or after the conveyance um but you know unless i think we got all the necessary approvals like town meeting um planning commission 8-24 approval um back when we started off on this project so i don't think we need to do those again but obviously we'll double check these lots were bought in order to sell them to someone like Habitat for, or not sell, but convey them to someone like Habitat for Humanity to do a project like this. So I think we've gotten the necessary approvals back, you know, some time ago.

Yeah. My question is, when you say you want to make sure that everything has been signed up or recorded with the town, is that there was, I had to sign off on the official maps or the mylar map so that they could be recorded. And that has been done.

It has been done. Okay. And that's great. As far as I hear.

Okay. So once that's done, then, then the next step would be set up to work with a close to get a closing. Correct? Correct. Yes.

Correct. And and to I think we're going to need to talk before that. Sarah, correct me if I'm wrong, to just have a clear understanding about how the upfront expenses are going to be, how Habitat's going to be reimbursed for the upfront expenses like the architect and things like that.

Well, Michael, there are other agreements that need to be done. The driveway agreement, for one, and the restrictions that will need to be in the deed to preserve the affordable housing nature of these lots.

We can do that all. We can do that all by. We can do that. We can do that at the closing. Seems to me.

No, I understand. And there also needs to be some agreement allowing habitat to improve the driveway over the easement in order to reach these two lots. Yep.

Okay. I think that was down through planning, wasn't it? You don't have an agreement. You have approval from planning to improve it. So if you're deeding the property then to them, they get that approval with the deed.

This commission entered into an MOU, or the town did, but the commission did, really. January 9, 2025, that lays out, I think, all of these business items pretty clearly and indicates whose responsibility they're going to be. But that's something Sarah and I can talk out if there are any issues. It looks like under Habitat for Humanity's tasks, One of them is to improve and extend the access right away to provide access to the new homes. So, you know, obviously they'll be given whatever rights they need in the property to do that. But I don't think that's anything to be terribly concerned about.

So if I understand correctly, then what you're saying is if we've done what we needed you to record with the town and that is and we can verify that. based on the agreements or the MOU that has been drawn up for the driveway and any anything else in the partnership, there's nothing. Sounds like if that all is true, then we can move forward with the closing. You just want to talk with Sarah first.

Yeah, we need. Yeah, I need to be sure that that that habitat in the town have a clear understanding of all the terms in the MOU and you know if there have been any conditions, circumstances that have changed that would require maybe some modifications in the MOU. would be reflected in the ongoing and the upcoming agreements we aren't going to go back and redo the mou i don't think um but you know it looks like the town's obligations were to get get the subdivision approval um relocate a public hiking trail i thought that was done before we went to planning commission actually um use 150 000 from the arpa funds to offset costs of pre-development work, planning, and site work. So I think we're going to need to set up a mechanism with Habitat as to how that actually will occur. But that's the town's obligation that it's undertaken. There's something about a tax abatement that I think. And then let's see. Yeah, the next thing is tax abatement, wave town fees. That's already done. Appoint a steering committee. So I don't know whether that's been done or not. Coordinate resources, that's the list of the town's obligations. Town will administer the ARPA grant and disperse the funds. And I may... I don't think anyone would mind. I might try to contact Mike Foliano because he was really the, from my perspective, Mike was the one who banged out this MOU and was driving this and would remember, I think, you know. small details that I probably wouldn't remember. I didn't know. So unless there's some great objection, I think I'm going to try to get Mike to just give me 20 minutes of his time to go through this and see what he thinks. But I don't see any reason why we couldn't. Pardon?

I'm just wondering the necessity. I don't have a problem with it. I'm just wondering the necessity of it because I mean, it was basically

The points, can I just read off of this mic real quick? The steering committee, what they want them to do. But first of all, I do believe that in March of 25, when we signed this originally, we thought this was going to move much faster than it has and probably in a different order. So we may not need all of these things, the five bullet points. So serve as a primary point of contact for Habitat. Coordinate resources with town government and the community to assist with the project. support communications, fundraising, seeking in-kind donations, recruitment of volunteers, consult with Habitat on project plans, specifications, design aspects related to the conservation restriction and the location of a conservation area and residential neighborhood. I'm sure your architects are all aware of that, so they're not going to do anything wrong. And then administer the ARPA grants and this response. So basically, we could create a subcommittee from the affordable just basically i think most of it is going to be that you're just checking boxes and another set of eyes on things going through and you're going to okay any payments to um from the actual funds that's pretty much what you're going to be doing so it's the steering committee is strictly made up of people from affordable housing it It could have been anybody at that point, and I know. But I think it now, because of the fact that we want to move faster, we're not going to start a new committee. You just sign a subcommittee, and then you can read that subcommittee and report back to the overall reportable of what they've done and what they've approved. Or if they need to bring something to you for full approval, they can. But I don't think that that's going to be initiated.

Ross, go ahead. Does it matter... if we disperse the funds before or after the closing. It seems to me it doesn't really matter. It might be tidier one way or the other, but it seems like it doesn't really matter. We're writing a check to Habitat for Humanity no matter what.

Well, when this was done, it wasn't supposed to be that way. It was supposed to be that we find somebody to do the site work or whatever, and we pay them.

Right.

It didn't happen that way. It's gone. So right now, because we're on a crushing, we get the fund out of our system by December 31st of 26, one of the workarounds, like Mike, you can tell me if this will work or not, but I do think it will. But if my dad said, this is what it's going to cost your site, this is what it's going to cost your septic, this is what it's going to cost, they start telling us and send us a bill, and then we send them a check. And So it may not be done, but you need the funds to get going.

Well, and that was going to be my question, because Mike was saying reimburse habitat, whereas when Sarah and I have talked, we've talked more so in terms of once you get an invoice, can we just get that invoice and pay it on behalf of them? I mean, is there... Okay.

You've got words. But if we get closer to December, we're going to have to start, like I say, by November 1st, you've got to start if whatever's left, we've got to figure out a way to get it to as quickly as possible.

I think, though, we, and I don't know if this was contemplated by the commission at any point, but having seen the proposal by the architect, and I haven't looked at it in any depth at all, and I have no legal or other critical comments of any kind about it, but some of the numbers were a little It made it more evident to me the scope of the project in terms of what it's going to cost. And I would think that the commission would want to have some say-so over expenditures before they get incurred. But I don't know if, again, Mike worked all this out with Habitat for Humanity. I was never really part of those discussions. So I don't know how Habitat ordinarily would handle this. And we certainly don't want to make them do anything different than what they ordinarily do, seems to me.

I think part of why I have to answer today is explain to us, you know, how they see the project, how much it will cost, how big is the, you know, how much fundraising, all that jazz. So we will be discussing that.

So actually, while you still have some time, Mike, in case you do have questions, I would like for Sarah to just kind of share with us what the next steps would be on your part and what you need from us to move forward at this point.

So to respond to the amount of the architects quote, it's not going to be, it's going to be a few thousand less. There are things on there that we do inherently. We don't need them to help us search for a developer. We don't need them, you know, basically after I think it's section five, we kind of do everything ourselves. What we were really trying to get into motion was the engineering. I did call, so Mike, thank you for letting me know that. I thought it was you. I called our attorney and asked her to reach out to you. She asked me for an address. I don't have that. So you have to have a parcel feed.

Is she someone, is she local?

Yeah, Muller Green, Victoria Muller. Is it New London?

Waller Green?

Mm-hmm. M-U-P-L-L-E-R. All right. Victoria.

Yep. It's a popular name today at this meeting. Okay. I'm sure I'll be able to find her. Sarah, is it all right for me to try to contact her?

Please do. Yes.

All right.

So... Once the closing happens, you know, we kind of get going right away. But I think that will deal with getting the engineer out of the site. We have no idea what you find, right? Listen, the quote in 700 for two houses is typically higher than what we would spend. We just don't have any idea. what we're going to hit, 350 a house. It's a good average. It's a good average. Right.

Sarah, I think Tom Metcalf did some soils testing and maybe some borings and things as part of the subdivision. I don't know if you need more than that or whether that would help at all, but I think Tom has some of that information.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and this is why You have to have a place to dig a well. It has to be enough.

Again, I'm just speaking out of my hat here. I think Tom checked all that because he needed to for subdivision as to whether the lots were suitable to have wells. Whether he made more detailed findings in that, I don't remember. I don't know.

I feel like we changed the configuration though because those holes are

Yeah, those tests are all three years old. So, but but either way, still, you know, that price 350 is a great average. So my understanding, excuse me, we have to go drill the well first, before we can do any kind of foundation. So, you know, the architect and the engineer, they can kind of team up. And once we generate house plans, and a site plan for approvals, then we'll go for zoning and building permit, which I'm not sure if everyone's familiar with the process, but it takes time, sometimes.

We will do our best to expedite this process for you.

Yeah, that'd be great.

Do you need a building permit to drill a well or just a zoning permit?

So... You need a well permit. I don't believe you need a building permit, but every town's different.

Go through the building, I think, and go through the building department and go through the website.

Yep.

So we're going to have to realistically take a plan to zoning by the end of the summer.

Yeah, for sure. We really realistically need approvals by first. When? By September 1st will be a Great goal to have.

All right. These are probably just administrative reviews, I would think, at this point, now that we have the subdivision approved. In other words, someone in Eric Knapp's department would have to sign off, I think.

Eric will do administrative reviews and tell you if you're missing anything ahead of time so that you know before you come to Zomi that something needs to be cleared up.

Got me. The two wells, the two septic clearing, expanding the driveway. Be careful, we've spent some of it.

We only have 141.8 left.

Are those R80?

Those are R80. Look, we have the document. Okay.

yeah either way i mean you're looking at 50 to 60 grand for site work for each house with foundation um and then for at least 10 to 15 grand for clearing the loan so right there that's the arpa that's the arpa money we save our money folks is a hundred thousand dollars a house on volunteers yeah um so and and some material material discounts help right um but the the whole

pre-construction parts, super expensive. Yeah.

Yeah, well, and septic is going to be your biggest deal.

Yeah, the average well right now is about $9,000.

Septic, $50,000.

Septic, I'd say about $20,000 a Tuesday, so yeah.

So, Andy, I wanted to add something, and then I just want to make sure we're clear on next steps and who's doing what before.

Yeah, I can say two quick things. On the, circle back to on the obligation disbursement of these funds. Are those ARPA funds that you're referring to? I know ARPA was a very complicated federal program, and the order in which things are done have to be done precisely in order to comply with federal regs. And so, for instance, obligation disbursement was common, may not apply because the city's different than, let's say, the funds I handled. Just make sure that that order in which it's done is compliant with ARCA and legal counsel will probably guide you on that.

You don't have to worry because our finance director is on it left and right. She has reports every year. She's got it down.

Yeah, I just didn't want to know that's confirmed.

The money is already here. It's been sitting in my account and it's been waiting to be used.

We've been using ARCA once for five years. We're very comfortable. spending and sending?

No, I'm not. I'm just trying to make some purpose. Make sure that I'm not asking the team.

I need to make sure that everything is kosher. She will not. And if we need to like get that the invoice back up to your invoice, she will make sure it's done.

And then this is a nuanced question for a legal counsel. When you talk about affordability conveyance, they'll go into the land records for the city of O-Line, correct?

I'm sorry, I missed the first part of the question.

The affordability provisions that you referred to will go into the land records for O-Line.

There'll be an express requirement in the deed to Habitat.

Okay. But you will record it in the land records. Yes, correct.

OK, let me assure that it'll run with the land and then there'll be an obligation. There'll be an obligation that that that those those restrictions, those covenants go into every deed by subsequent owners. If in fact the property, the units are going to be owned by the occupants, I'm still not clear whether they can be owned or rented. But yeah, the provision will be made to make sure that they run with the land and that they can't. They can't be terminated. by not recording them or mentioning them in a subsequent deed so that they'll be on the land for at least 40 years.

40 years? 40. 40. Okay, 40. And my second question is, they will comply with the state of Connecticut affordable appeals list definitions. Yeah. The city gets credit for that affordability housing if it meets the test, so.

Unfortunately, I think there's a little more to that test than that. But yeah, that would be the intent is to make them eligible for that. Yeah.

My God, after all this.

Yeah, I mean, that's how state assesses and qualifies affordable housing. It needs their definition. That's fine. Just want to bring that out so that we get credit as a community for this good deed. And it's a I think a great record for the city because I know there's that scoring that comes into the appeals list and most communities are down a single digit. They're not even near 10% to qualify for a waiver to get out of money. So we deserve the credit because we've done a lot of hard work and that's all.

We'll do everything that has to be done to be sure that happens. Thank you.

There's a double layer of protection here. The Habitat land lease is for 99 years, renewable at 99. So the town's deed will actually run out before the land lease does.

Everyone, I've got to run. I've got to be in a town up the road here in 15 minutes.

Real quick, your next step is to reach out to Habitat's attorney. Is that correct?

Yeah, I'll probably tell you. I think I'll talk to Sarah first, and then I will also talk to their attorney, and I'll follow up with Tom at CAF to be sure we've done everything we had to do to button up the... Just send us a message.

No, he's gone. He's gone.

Never mind.

Sorry.

You know what?

Okay.

They're expecting.

Are you signed in? Because Mike signed in. Mike, don't get off. Because if you leave, we won't be recording anymore.

I'm not signed in on my laptop, should I be?

If Mike leaves, you'll have to sign in. You only have five minutes, though.

Is it Zoom?

I'm doing that. No, I'm doing that.

Steve's got it on him.

No problem.

There's no way we can co-host. We're signing up. Okay. Oh, okay.

I can't get Val in. I don't know why. Let me see if I can.

I just said admit, so. It says that it's unverified.

That's what it's saying to me, too. Hold on, let me turn my own mic off. My goodness gracious.

I have a number.

Yeah, my phone was muted.

Yeah. Okay, great. So what do you do for access?

They're construction superintendent. So you're the guy that coordinates the crews to go out there. Wow, that's going to be great. Where do you find volunteers?

So we have a volunteer engagement director who basically that's what she does. She brings most of our volunteers in. Our volunteer groups, we have a lot of regulars. Some have been coming for 30 plus years now.

Wow. I got 15 for you.

That's great. Her name is Mary Lou.

You have some people that they've been doing it that long. You have some proper construction guys.

Yeah, there's a handful of six, seven, eight individuals who have been coming who are skilled that come, you know, three, four days a week. So, yeah. I think you brought us back. It was really fun. I enjoyed that a lot. I hope to get a little dirty with you.

Absolutely. You got 15 people?

Yeah, and we train weekly on construction. Oh. So we're not the average real estate team. We train every single week. We have a whole team of systems, foundations. I'm using your firm. You don't mess around. Yeah, you can walk in to see what's going on. I love watching new construction. I call it the birth of a house. The birth of a house. Like watching a house before, and I love it. This would be great for our team. Actually get their hands in. They will be very excited. Simultaneously, it's actually faster.

It works out better for us. It's faster, which we will try to do. Prevents downtime. You'll get it. One question that I have, I just don't know the answer to this. Since we have established that we need to develop the steering committee off of this committee, is that something that I can request to have added to the agenda tonight? Or do I have to post that? You can make a motion to amend the agenda.

We're going to do it, just in case.

Because there's no reason not to do it at this point. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. having a steering committee was written four weeks and years ago.

That's my understanding.

I do think that it would be helpful to have at least two people who are able to check in with the process. You want me to make a motion? Yes, you want to make a motion.

I'll make a motion, second me, two-thirds vote on it. But I make a motion to add 6B.

as an alternate, can you make it a motion?

Oh, yeah, I know you've seen it. No, I've never, I've never an alternate perpetuity. No, sorry. Yes, we have a fifth person missing.

Okay, so then you have to appoint it first to fit.

And do you want us to do that as the chair?

No, if nobody.

So we have to make a motion to appoint Anthony to. Okay, so can I have that?

That's okay.

Can I have a motion?

That Anthony can be promoted.

Yeah. I do appreciate that. Is there a second for that?

Jimmy Corden.

Okay. Jimmy Corden, staff seat.

I second that motion.

Okay. Is there any discussion on that? Great. All those in favor? Aye. Excellent. You have... All right. So now, Anthony, would you like to...

I have a motion to amend the agenda and add item 6B in order for a vote to be taken on the selection and seating of the steering committee, what's it called?

Yeah, we'll call the steering committee. The MOU called it. And you said 6B, just one correction. We are still under 5A.

No, you can make the amendment anywhere in the agenda. You don't have to go in order. That's why I made the amendment. And then you can just... Great, we'll put it under 6B. It just needs a second and a two-thirds vote.

Yep, so we have a motion. to amend the agenda. Is there a second? Thank you, Ross. Any discussion about that? None. All those in favor? Aye. Thank you. Any nays? Motion passes. All right. So we've added that to 6B under new business. And before we move on from where we are with McCulloch, I just want to clarify steps that need to be taken, one of which is going to be appointing the steering committee of at least two people tonight. And a next step that is not in our hands, however, we want to make sure it happens, is Mike and you having a conversation, Sarah, and you would say that you'll reach out to him to make that happen. Please let me know if I can help in any way, or any of us, if we can help in any way. And then from there, they have to have, the attorneys have to have a conversation about what an agreement would look like between us and Habitat for invoicing and payment out of the ARPA funds. That's what Mike was saying, but so we don't need that agreement.

Well, not between the attorneys, not between the land attorneys. We can make that agreement between us.

Okay, so they don't have to draw anything up. Lovely.

I thought they had to do it.

No, they just have to schedule a post.

They just have to figure out.

They schedule a post. Okay. And then afterwards, you can handle it all through your steering committee. That's what it says in your steering committee rules. That's what you're going to do. You're going to approve the bills. Okay. So that's the only administer the argument and disperse funds. That's what the steering committee does. So if they point you an invoice for it, You're going to do it and get it paid.

And so I can be the steering committee or I need one other person.

I don't have the MOU in front of me. It says you're going to appoint a steering committee. Okay. It does not say how many people. Okay, great. I would strongly suggest if you're dealing with finances, you have a check and balance system.

Absolutely. Yes. um and since i have the the affordable housing email i am happy to serve on the steering committee um because i'll be the one to receive these bills first so ross is willing to do that yes there you go um is there anyone else who's interested in serving on this subcommittee. It's okay if you're not?

We have at least two people. You should have three, at least.

Thanks, Anthony.

That was lovely. That gives you the number three. Awesome. Thank you. Am I allowed to volunteer as an alternate? That's a great question, because Anthony's regular right now. Right.

I thought it was just sitting here.

Okay. Why don't we all just be the steering committee? There's going to be the steering committee. I'll get the next one. No bills.

You let me know it's okay.

We'll get the bills paid. How's that?

You just can't.

Anthony and Ron.

Yeah. You can get the bill and email it to one of their personal. They can open up a self-committee meeting and then they're just going to do it as a group. Okay. And then they'll work with Anita. They'll just take the bill to Anita.

And that's where we're checking balance with you.

I love that even more.

So, do we have to make this a... We have to vote on this?

We just did.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, so we put it on your business. So we did kind of jump back because I just want to make sure we have the steps. Like we want to get rolling. So closing needs to happen. The attorneys need to talk. The closing will get scheduled. What is next and who needs to do it?

Sarah. Can I just ask a question? Sarah, are you comfortable moving ahead with certain things while this flows and gets settled? I mean, I think it'll go pretty quickly, but legally?

I mean, I guess the architect and engineer, they could be working.

Remember, when you were going to, we were going to have thought that we would be doing some of it.

Yeah, so eventually we wanted to go out and, yeah, so maybe we could start with that. Maybe some development. You first need a site plan.

I was just going to say, you have to have a site plan. Right. So currently, the property is insured by the town, correct?

Yeah, it's part of open space. Yeah. You're comfortable with it? You're trying to do a site plan? I mean, I'll check with Mike tomorrow. I don't see if we're wanting to do a site plan.

The subdivision's already approved, and the site plan should be recorded in the subdivision. Excellent. Right? Yes. Yeah.

It should be. But you're saying you need a new site plan. No.

No, it would be the existing site plan. Okay. But where the house proposals sit on it. Right. Probably. That will. Might move depending on where we're testing.

Yeah. And you should fill like your septic design, whether it's engineered, non-engineered. Okay.

So you have all of those proposals. the previous documents in your possession. Is that correct? So, okay. So you don't need anything from us right now.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Is that right?

Yeah. Once we have an actual house design, when they're able to create elevation, the septic.

What kind of house are you talking about? I was going to say, that's your least expensive. to build that are actually like in the cost of that. Prevent to that. And with just the most flexible floor plan.

Yeah. Yeah. Lake and Miles, yes.

Yeah, I'm sure that's that.

Can I ask a simple question? If you meant to build so many houses, why do you need an architect? Don't they just have a standard plan and just plunk it down?

Because if we're going to... Sorry? If we're going to apply for funding, we are, but you need an architect standpoint.

Correct. You can't just use the same plan every time to save money? It would save a lot of money.

Sometimes you can, but not always. Okay.

For division approval, they have to have MILRs. They have to have an architectural design stamp and a date and all of that. That's how you submit for your approval. Very expensive. Sorry. No?

I want to make sure we all know what we're going for.

So, just for clarification then, House Attorney is going to speak with Sarah from Habitat. Then the two attorneys are going to schedule a closing. That's going to take place in the meantime. Habitat can move forward with additional soil testing and anything you need to do in terms of setting up for actually starting on the pre-construction piece of things. All right. And then we'll make sure we have that steering committee in place at the end of our meeting. Do we need to do anything formal? It sounds like not the attorneys, but between the town and Habitat for an agreement as to how we're going to get those bills paid. And what would that look like? Your steering committee. That's it. That's all we need to do. Okay, great. Just double checking. Just want to move it forward.

If you get to November 1st and there's still $140,000. There won't be. They're going to tell Sarah, you got to spend this money fast.

Yeah, there won't be. There won't be. She's ready. She's ready. We're good. Yeah, she's ready. All right. Is there anything else on the McCulloch property that we need to discuss at this point? Thank you, everybody, for powering through that discussion because we are all at different places of the understanding of where things have been and where they're going, and it's important to get it rolling. So thank you for that. So can I ask a question? You can.

How can we at the town help you as far as volunteers and workers? How can we get involved as townspeople? Because I know you have your group of people that volunteer on a lot of your projects and things. And follow you. Do you want new people?

Always. They're not the only home we've been building. And I think that the value of our program is neighbors building for neighbors. So as many online folks as we can get involved.

Promotional interior ones, you've got to design it. You can have rendering of what it would look like. They'll be trying to do a thing like, can you help us build these homes? And I would love it if some of our local businesses would maybe give you a rate, a cut rate for favoriting or whatever. Absolutely. Hardware stores throwing in materials. I mean, Sarah, you know, they're working on a letter that could go out together with GLS. We'll be loving that. Saying, hey, you know, this is happening. Can you help us? What can you do to help us?

We came down in... just before, just after Christmas, I can't remember which one, and spoke at First Congregational Church. And they just put it out. Said, hey, after service, come on back. We had like 35 people just to hear about the project. So I think there is interest. I think they will... I'll be coordinating that at FCCOF. There was a lot of people in that. So I think that with your help, we can certainly provide materials and We can come down and speak. If there's a room you think we should be in, put us in it, and we'll take care of it.

Okay. I think it's, if you do an informational presentation and look for volunteers, it's transparent to the community, shows that we're open. Maybe the eye care oversees it, or a modeling commission you could share. council members, you can invite people to come and they can do a presentation and do a call with the community for information and to volunteer because you can get some information before you volunteer and other people might just show to understand a little bit more about what's going on because it's a good project. It's good populations for the community.

Yeah. Right. And it's not just the building piece. It's providing lunch for the people that are building and, you know, clean up and all of that.

There's a lot. There's a whole traditional portion to this program that's 50 years this year, 40 years for us next year. So there's a whole, but I'd be happy to put a letter together.

Let's work it out when you're ready. I mean, I know we've got some preliminary stuff to figure out.

Can you just briefly put forth your financing model and these two homes may go cost $350 each, maybe a little less. So how much, for example, do you anticipate being $500?

Well, $700.

That's a really good question.

So $700 minus $150, you know, that's, we will sell these homes at a significant loss. So to cover the cost to build, which is what we price the homes at, then that would be our goal. So real quick math, quick and dirty, half a million, 550.

What do you use for the scale to sell them? So if it costs you 350, what would you sell them for?

It's based on their income.

Right, but based on income, with the median income in Old Vine right now is like what, 180? 122.

We use county. You use county. We do. So you have to qualify. You have to be an 80% AMI or lower. We use the high scale. Okay. So it's not based on town.

It's based on county.

Correct. And then just because our purpose area covers three counties. But remember, the sale price is irrelevant. What they qualify for a mortgage is no more than 30% of their income per month. That includes taxes, which is why it's We had that rebate, the abatement, and their homeowner's insurance.

Right, but they're also allowed to get the grant, right? They can still do the CHAPA?

They would not want to do that.

They can't do the CHAPA of $25,000?

Habitat mortgages are zero down, zero interest.

Okay.

Some of that. I think they can do better. I guess they could, but they should. We won't charge you down.

What's the anticipated square global space that you envision with the managers? I'm not sure if you did, but Square foot, how many square foot will create a standard? I would say 14, 1500. And what do you anticipate that per square construction cost would be outside of development, pre-development, expenses, just the development? 100, 250, what do you do to bring it in?

So our soft costs or our hard costs are around 225. 225? No, total.

No, total.

Oh. 225,000. What that works out to square foot-wise?

Yeah, we judge it differently than price per square foot. I'm just kidding. When will the family be selected?

Because they get involved too. So which point does a family become notified that they've been chosen to get this house or something?

So we have a partnership with Liberty Bank and United Way of Southeastern Connecticut that helps raise closing funds. So the family, if they start an IBA account and they save $1,000 in a year, United Way and Liberty will each kick in another $1,000 towards their closing costs and cover the rest. And that has to be a year-long program. So as soon as we own the property, I would put it out as another one of our offerings.

And then do people apply to you? Because you say you would love to come in there.

Do you use a library to select?

No, great question. So a lot of folks will fill it. We have 300 and some odd people in the pipeline.

Oh, you do a waiting list, so to speak.

They're all at different levels. You have to complete certain levels. It's like a video game, you know? And we date and timestamp the folks who have completed. And then the board has to accept them. And then they start their sweat equity. So we have to make sure, we have to get their finances straight first. And that's the first eight months. We require 100 hours of, what I think, for a single family household and 150 for two. So to not go to the construction hours isn't as daunting as we want you to be ready to have a mortgage.

So you counsel people. I was really never going to hold. The whole program was good. You don't see that. That's the first time I've heard that presented.

I mean, it's hit literally soon. It's our mortgage.

So in the interest of, we do have other things we need to discuss. Most of them can be quick. I would like to, maybe we can connect afterwards. I'll reach out to you before the end of the week. Maybe we can even talk about you having a standing visitor, you know, be online or whatever for the next few months. So we can have just check on updates or maybe it's you and I that do that and we share it, but I'll reach out to you. after this and we can come up with a plan for that.

So the thing that I would ask of the community, of the town, of anyone that you talk to is volunteers and support are great, but the third side of that is we need applicants that are local to the area. And I say again, we need applicants. So fair lending, right? We can't just choose certain folks, but the more people that get involved, the more people that get into the queue, it becomes... more likely that, you know, the log averages that someone from the online world, I know that that was a thing.

Do you have just a simple brochure of what the qualifications are?

I can email that to you. Okay.

That would be great.

And I'll share it out. Everyone starts with a free screen.

Okay. I want the G question. then I would be more than willing to put it in my newsletter so that if you're interested in getting into this program, and you could advertise it now on your aspect of the website. I just don't want to mention it in my newsletter until you get something.

On the affordable housing section of the website?

You can put it in a lot of times. You can put it in Spotlight. You can do a press release. You can line line. You can get a jam in there within a day. Okay. You should get going on that. Okay. That can get going. All right. Then I'll mention it again once we get going.

Is there anyone in the group who is particularly, like, savvy with getting these press releases out? I'm sure you have some pre-written stuff.

Sarah can give you a draft. We'll run it through.

You can help me pay. Okay. Perfect. You've got a whole bunch of people that do things. And I do have the funds to spend on that, so let's make that happen. Yeah, today.

It's all free. It's free.

Oh, none of that cost? Okay. Yeah. Great. Love it. I mean, even advertising and the other. Okay, great.

And Canva has a template for press releases as well.

All right. Lovely. Oh, great. I would like to move us back to the beginning of our meeting.

Can I have a question? You don't need me for anything?

Yep. We need you for one more thing.

Okay. All right.

So I'm just going to do the other two things very quickly. You are good. Thank you for spending so much time with us.

Great. You just tapped me on the PC. You got it. Thanks for having me.

Very nice to meet you. Thank you for your support and help. We'll get you guys everybody. Thank you very much.

Thank you. All right. I'm going to take us right back up to number three on the agenda, which is the approval of our minutes for May 6th. Those were linked in the email that I sent out.

One funky thing, I think there are more people than Fred.

Yep, there were. Yep, right. So we will make sure that that is corrected. I might have actually... Has anybody seen the one on the website? Because it might have already been corrected. I'll double check. So with that exception, when are you going to make a motion?

I'll make a motion from the minutes of the May 6th meeting. And you want to add... Correcting the folks who are in attendance. Got it.

Great. Is there a second? Thank you, Anthony. Any discussion? All those okay? Any nays or opposed or abstentions? Abstain. Thank you. All right. Welcome passes. Moving on to number two. Sorry, number four. Welcome, Heather. Okay. Number five. Heather's just jumped in, so. I'm glad to have you. Any talk now, we'll talk later. That's right. No worries. So, Martha, 5B in our agenda is the first level of the Ad Hoc Committee. And since you're here in the flesh, we usually, we would ask Jimmy and George for an update. Neither one is here. So if you can share with us where that stands and what you need from us, if anything.

So at our last meeting, Jimmy and Gertrude both thought they had some challenges. But they stayed for about half the meeting. And basically, they were just talking about, and I don't want to get this wrong because I'm not the expert on this, but working with River Cog, because River Cog has a plan moving forward Will they go with that right now and modify it for old lines just because we want to get something in? And I know there's a lot of push to get things done by July 1st because otherwise, this is where we're off the record. There's some laws that might even know this, but if a developer gets something in on July 1st and the town doesn't have their plan in place, They can pretty much do what they want. There are a lot of towns scrambling to meet that July 1st to July 15th window. Because it's fiscal. Because it's not that much fiscal, but they want to plan it because after they approve it, they only have 15 days it becomes official, but it has to wait 15 days. So it's just like an ordinance. When we're passing an ordinance, it doesn't become an ordinance for 15 days after the vote. So I know they're scrambling to do that. And I don't know, like I said, I had to go to another meeting, so I kind of scooted out, but if you want information, Denise, Mr. Savageau, Mike Pobliano, Howard Marzullis, and... Is this typing to...

I'm just trying to think of something

Oh, Todd Magnate wasn't there. It was just the three of them. So Todd, George, and Jim were not there.

So what does that decision mean for the affordable housing?

That didn't mean any, well, they're going back and they're submitting the report back to you. Right. So I don't know. Zoning has to make some decisions.

I know. So what is it exactly that has to be submitted on that day? That's what's unclear to me. That's a little unclear to me too.

I think it comes under zoning now. Okay. Because of the mixed use possibilities where they can mix use of your commercial building, leave commercial on the bottom, the top. And I think that's where the panic is, is that developers could be more about that than I do.

So it does relate to the larger bill that passed at the end of 2025. Yeah.

But is it, so are you saying if it passes and they can do mixed use residential, that we could potentially use that residential space as affordable housing? Separate approval.

Well, that's the problem. There's nothing in there to stop it. That's why there are some developers telling us that they talked about what kind of a You really need to know what kind of municipality. I think it was one of the towns over across the river. They're scrambling because they know they have somebody already ready with a plan. That's the other thing. You have to have somebody who's ready. Like they've got it. They've already done it. So they've got a plan. They're going to put it in July 1st. And that, the CEO was like, I got it. Get this.

Unless the town puts it on some other...

I'm about to check it for you, but my phone has decided to go back. I don't think I'm zoning allowed.

I think completely change our zoning. Like everything has to go to a vote. Yeah. And if you don't... That's what I'm saying.

The new law. Oh. If we don't have something. If you don't have something in place. That's really... You can't deny somebody at that point in time. So that's why you have to get it into place. Right. By a certain time.

But if there's something that we think we're talking about is a plan, like whether we're going to use our own plan for development.

Zoning has to get something planned. As far as your plan, I think they're planning to use, go with River Crop for that moment. And then do it. And who's going to go into the River Crop because there's an affordable housing?

Yeah, so Michael and I were appointed by you. Fred was there. Fred is attending. So he was there at the last one. I was not. Fred's going to give us an update from that, which is really typical information.

He's probably got more updated information from her. I tried to land use with zoning planning in Los Angeles and DBA. I kind of let Eric in charge. So if you really want the most updated of what each one of those is doing. Eric Knapp is your best contact because he kind of handles those.

Does this somehow alter the state statute under 8-30G, which allows the developer to come in and flip it?

8-30G is no longer with this. It's gone.

It's gone. So that goes into July 1st.

So that's why they're nervous because they have a little window there.

Okay.

Okay. All right. So we are going to need some clarification on that. That's okay. But I can reach out to Eric and try to get clarification. All right. So. Yep, you're good.

Thank you. Thank you for. Thank you all.

Thank you.

And I'm sorry about the cold. Did you notice how it turned on?

No. I'm sweating. All right. Yeah, I'm sure.

That could be the wine.

No, I'm kidding. I'm on record. I shouldn't say that. I have not had wine yet. All right. River Cog Bay meeting update. Fred, do you have anything of note here?

All the towns in River Cogs cashed in one by one and did an update on their prior decisions. statistical analysis. They wrote down how the town's different population groups were rising or falling. Yeah, that was the previous meeting. Yeah, so they just, they updated that, which I wasn't up to prior to. There was no the population is growing a little bit, the elderly population is growing a little bit. This town has more younger people coming in, but there were no conclusions. There were no glaring differences between any of the towns.

Basically, at the previous meeting, the discussion was around something very similar. It was around the aging population that we have in our towns.

Right.

and the lack of inventory for places that aging populations go in the region.

And that's- Portable housing for the aging population. Exactly, yes, right. Because the housing for the aging population Portable housing for the aging population that is livable is different.

almost non-existent it is non-existent that's used in in middlesex and new london counties yeah it's across state yeah affordable housing this is a you know it's the top of that line it is the most misused term i've ever seen created by a certain because it is middle class housing, very simple. And I've worked for 30 years inviting people who are at or below 30% of area median income, AMI, and people who are sick and disabled. So they're not building what we really need to take care of the elderly because at 80% at today's costs, very few elderly people that are on fixed or limited incomes can afford a decent place to live. So, and I'm stocked up. I mean, I run 500 apartments that we do all. We take care of another couple hundred families on section eight. So the bottom line is we're full and we, we keep, we can't open places up or wait list for three to five years. So that's where the states miss the boat. They want middle-class housing. They don't like the, uh, public housing, they don't pay taxes, and they have to subsidize us in a sense. But middle class housing, upper middle class housing at 80%, it's a pretty big number. You put two people in there, and you're clipping along at $150,000, $170,000. And they call that affordable housing with that kind of household income.

And it's housing like a hot dog. Yeah. The waiting lists are like three to five years. So you don't have to wait, right? I am not. I am not. So my mother lives with us and has lived with me for 19 years now. Both my parents have lived with us. It's a very long story. But I've chosen to keep my mom with us, and she's on a fixed income, Social Security only. And she would have loved to move into a place, and we've raised them, and she can't do it. If she didn't live with us, she couldn't survive. And it is horrible.

The shelter in London that I'm also affiliated with has, because they saw the population of the homeless getting high, the age of the homeless getting older and older, so they are now, we are now building a unit, I forget the name of it, I'm sure you know the category, but it's no medical care, it's just 38, the consistent living without those. Residential care homes. Some people who are there to check on them. Right, they don't need. But they are benefiting from this. It's communal living. That's what we need more. Communal living. We also just built a couple of what they call in London, zone for boarding houses. You know, people sharing. Good. A kitchen, a living area.

It's almost like going back to dorm life. Exactly.

They're not luxurious by any stretch of the imagination, but they're a group and they're really, really inexpensive.

We have beautiful properties. It's so sad that they stopped building those. But we're tax-free because you can't just talk about elderly or disabled or people who are below 30% AMI, you got to put the checkbook up. So, and that's where everyone wants to do multi-family or affordable housing because it's taxable. And that's the big difference that that stakeholder that used to be prominent and allowing us to build public housing. And mine is my beach, I got gorgeous stuff. We pour millions into it to update it, you know, just, bathroom project for cities back in it to do a million dollar update right now i mean sort of gorgeous i mean my wife would like to have stuff porcelain piles and swan stones surrounded so but that doesn't exist because everyone wants to build middle class housing and you know the number for whatever reason but you know certain towns are better for you know the lower income housing though

with the density and the availability of walkable and public transport connection. Here, we're residential. We're almost country. So some things are not appropriate here.

Yeah, and if you actually look at the numbers that I have, there's only been 265,000 people, the difference in the population of the state of Connecticut from 2000 to July 1st of 2024. So the question is, it's not a population explosion, and it's not like we stopped building houses 24 years ago, I mean, so why is there a catastrophe? And I don't think it's a head-top issue. I think it is an income issue. People are not coming out of the school system or they're moving here. They don't have the skills in a sophisticated state. It requires advanced skills to be paid enough money to compete in the housing market. So it's not just banging the roof up. It's a much more complex issue But the narrative is more like it's, you know, a crisis. And even our homeless, because I follow this probably very closely, the population got below 2,500 in the state of 3.7 million. When you go to a cocktail party, you think it's like Los Angeles with 43,000 people homeless just in L.A. My point is, out of 3.7 million, it got about 2,500, and then it didn't move up to about 4,200, because they do what's called, you know, a point-in-time count, a PFT count. So, again, out of the state, 3.7 million, even if you're 200, and that just went up, it's not as much crisis as people make it out, and we should be able to deal with that pretty quickly and connect it to a leader. I mean, we need to start, we have many great big housing people. Really great. Anyway, I think we need more.

Well, and I, again, I mean, I think these conversations, no, you don't need to be sorry. No, no, no. These conversations are important and we learn from each other in these conversations. Wouldn't the chair folks want to be here? It's going to be next month. Nope, they were. But then once this agenda came to light, it was like, can we push that? So here's a question for all of you. Actually, Let's finish the agenda, then I'll ask you this at the end. But a couple of things can be moved with everyone's approval. But real quick, under new business, Fred and I met. Fred reached out to me. He heard my pleas and cries for, can somebody take some of this on in some way with me? And Fred, who's been doing this, who's been a chair of the committee in the past, has offered to take on certain tasks. And Fred, it's funny, you had said, you told some other people like, Sheila has deputized me to blah, blah, blah. So I don't know if we want to look at reopening the vice chair possibility so that you don't have to have some of those other responsibilities, but then as the vice chair, or if you want to be co-chair, like it We just wanted to open that up for discussion to see if anybody else had thought about wanting to step forward for something like that. And do we need to vote? We would need to vote, obviously. But what are your thoughts?

So I think a vice chair sounds a good model. Okay. But if anyone else wants to be a co-chair.

I'll make a motion to elect. Fred as vice chair of the Affordable Housing Committee. So now I'm official.

So we have a motion to elect Fred as the vice chair of the Affordable Housing Committee, seconded by Ross. Is there any discussion about that? Is there anyone who wants to arm wrestle Fred for it? No? All right. So all those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Wonderful. Congratulations. Congratulations. And thank you.

How did you do it? Right. Thank you. Yes. All right. So steering committee. Forgive my lack of clarity.

Can I just appoint people who volunteer to a steering committee, or do we have to go through the vote and the, like? I can make a motion. I don't want to do that if we don't. Thank you. So I can just say, Anthony, Ross, thank you, and Kent have all agreed to serve as the steering committee to work with Habitat in terms of income and outcome.

Are we just trying to figure out literally the logistics of them getting paid.

I'll have to go back and look at the MOU, which I'm going to.

Yeah, all right.

It's going to be detailed, though.

Once they start invoicing, they're going to be paying contractors. They're going to have electricians and plumbers.

Martha said it's just approving bills, but for the resources, for communications, fundraising, in-kind donation.

Yeah, see, that's better than what was said, but that As I said, this was probably written five years ago.

There will be, Habitat will look for help in fundraising. Right. They will look for us, you know, like for like, but I didn't know that was part of the steering committee role. There's a lot to it more. That's what it says.

So it sounds, let me just look, it sounds kind of out of my head.

That's a lot of funding. You don't, you don't. Habitat takes that on. They think. They look for our support in some way, shape, or form, but they take it on. No, you scared me.

I do have to do. How do you generally do?

Yes, exactly.

Well, it feels like we, I don't know that we've ever gotten that information from Habitat. And so it's, well, it doesn't sound like we've asked for it. So I think to ask for it and say, can you give us like, at one of our future meetings.

They're the fundraiser. It seems to me they would come to us and say, can you help us? We don't say, let us help you.

Okay, so then that's my concern with just jumping into a steering committee. They're saying that we need to do that to move forward. But who knows?

I think having that In other words, steering committee is more like Habitat's point of contact with the town. And it seems to me once the closing happens, the closing happens at the end of the financial arrangement, the relationship will change significantly.

There'll be a link to their website that you can put out. where anybody in the town can make a donation to the Habitat Humanity website on behalf of this project.

In other words, we have no more obligation. It would be more like, that's my, that's how I read it. It would be what, if we decide, for example, if we decide the town will help find volunteers, or if we decide, yeah, that's about it.

The big progress, the benign progress, that it's just happened because Things, as you even said, should have happened four years ago. But there's still a need to work cooperatively with habitat. Then the progress gets more into the oversight, the scope of the work. How is it progressing?

We have nothing more to say about the house.

No, no, but you pay the bills. Anytime you have the power of the checkbook, you have a big stake. You're the big stake.

Once all the artworks have been expended, We have no... No, no, no.

The town has a big interest in having this be a successful program. That's what we can do to help them.

That's what I'm saying. We will respond to their needs. We're not going to tell them. We don't know if it's on others.

Can you have contact with the churches? Sure, I know who they are. Can you publish the newsletter in a tariff publication, we can facilitate it.

So my point is, if it implements, we're more on the respondent thing in the end, not the assertion.

No. I want to make sure that if you are agreeing to do this, you know what you're agreeing to, and you're okay with it.

And that it follows the structure of that. As I said, it sounds like being responsive the needs of habitat in so much as yes we can but we have no more legal i just want to make that we have no more legal obligation no we wanted to we want this to be maker successful you don't want to take on a legal obligation or a blue shared relationship yeah that's absolutely because we don't have any control over it once we don't have a person so yeah

Not that we see that we have, but I don't see it as we have control over it. We want to get that money spent for the right things. It's not a lot of money. It's kind of all quick.

There's a lot of development stuff.

So I'm just going to go with that, that I'm appointing Ross, Kent, and Anthony as a subcommittee to... Make sure it'll say what it needs to say in the notes. But to the town steering committee. That's what it officially. Okay, you're the steering committee as indicated in the MOU.

Be clear, when an invoice comes through, it's going to be sent to the three of us. We chat about it and text about it and say, yeah, it looks good.

And then we have a question. Otherwise, we can take it to the.

And I'll work out with Martha whether or not you have to send it back through me or you can just go straight to Martha.

The finance director will probably call a shot. But it's really the finance director, as Dr. Staple said, they have their hands around the opera money and they're trained and know what to do with it. So we'll just find out what the cycle is. I have no problem coming in 15 minutes early for a monthly meeting and going over what paperwork there is and then handing it

somebody has to sign the invoice here's what i'd like to suggest because we do want to make sure that moving the whole point of having mccullough first on the list today was getting through that discussion because there have been so many questions

about who is supposed to do what next to make sure this moves. And not that anybody was purposely doing it, not me, but that's what it was feeling like. Like, well, did you talk to so-and-so? So-and-so didn't respond. Well, then so-and-so didn't respond. Did you talk? So we want to keep that moving. I would like to suggest that we schedule a special meeting in two weeks. And I will get clarification on the MOU piece. We'll still leave you in place. but I will get clarification. We can move some of these items to that, the agenda that I don't really want to wait another month for, but also I think we've, we're running out of steam. No, no, I should not speak for you. I'm running out of steam in terms of just brain power, because I do think it's important that we I mean, town-owned properties have been a question from several of you, and I need Fred for that piece of it, and he's gone through what we have. Budget status, I have it. We can wait for two weeks on that. And then website, I want to get our website changed, so I'd really like input on that. What I might even just do at that meeting is ask for one or two people to work with me on cleaning that up, updating the information, and let's

you know, we're going to need to get it out. So you're kind of in pencil on the 17th, which is two weeks from today. It's Wednesday.

I would love that. And I will request a special meeting.

Yeah. So it's just confirmed with an email because I won't do this because I'm not here the next week. I'm actually at a regional holiday.

Are you sure it's your birthday? What's today? Today's the

third or second third sorry definitely 17th two weeks anybody available next week it usually special meeting on the 10th cannot okay yeah you can zoom in on the 17th i can't do the 10th either all right 17th everybody else good about 17th yeah if you can zoom in that would be great how long do you think it'll be What do you want to do at 5 o'clock? I'm suggesting 5 o'clock and no longer than one hour.

You can send a cryptic email.

On the 17th, I have a hard out at 6. Then you do what you've got to do. I can zoom in. You can zoom in. You can leave at 6.

You can come in. You can leave at 6. I can start on the 17th. I got to check my three.

I can start earlier.

Some people are flexible. I would be one. Can you do four? Can you do four?

I can do four, absolutely. On Wednesday? I mean, I don't want to go longer than that. On Wednesday the 17th? Yes. Yes.

You can do four on the 17th. I normally can't do that with you. I can do four on the 17th. Me too.

Fred?

17th is okay. On the water park?

I might be on the beach, but...

Turn your camera off.

Don't even do that. Right.

Right. Four o'clock is good for you? Oh, for sure. Great. Two weeks.

I was just saying. Yeah.

And we will still plan on moving along. I think that some of these other discussions are so important and maybe we should plan a night where we all continue our conversations. outside here after we close the meeting and we can learn more from each other. So with that, I am going to then...

It's a great idea. Catch us up. Yeah, it's a great idea.

So I would like to propose that someone make a motion to move, I think this is okay to do, but to move items 6C, D, E and F to a special meeting that we are scheduling for June 17th at 4 p.m. Yeah, so move.

So Heather, and I'll second with Ross. Any discussion or questions?

You want me to tell you? Yeah, please. What you should do is you should table those items. Yeah. and then take them up at a special meeting scheduled for the 17th at 4 p.m. So what you do is you table, and then it comes off the table because you've specified a specific date. Got it.

Okay, so we table first and then... No, no, you can make it Wednesday.

You just, you know, we like to table items, six CDEF, and tell a special meeting on Wednesday, Thursday, June 17th. June 17th at 4 p.m. at City Hall.

So, Heather, are you okay to change, if I change your motion to state that we table those items and then revisit them on a special meeting?

Which will be taken off the table at a special meeting.

One more time, items, which?

Six, C, D, E, and F. C, D, E, and F, okay.

And be tabled.

What is an F on here? And taken off the table at a special meeting.

I don't have an F. I don't have an F. What? Oh, you know why? Because we added steering committee. There you go.

In real time you did.

Yeah, right. And it changed on my thing, so. So we have a motion. Second. We have a second.

Any other discussion? I just want to ask one question. I think I missed one zoning workshop. Did that happen already?

that's why i want to talk about that because i think there's two phases okay but we can talk about that now but we need clarification yeah it's it's the way that i'm interpreting what was sent to us is two phases the first phase is tomorrow it's the third isn't it i thought it was on the board it's not today it's tomorrow it's tomorrow i knew i was going to miss it so that's right never mind i would like to go to that because And my understanding is it's open for anyone to attend. Yes. Cool. Yes.

What kind is it?

I forwarded it to you in an email. You said business? I did, right? Well, there you go.

That's all right.

Then the next one will be... Yep. Yeah, so this may lead to updates that affect different neighborhoods. Totally fine. All right, so... focus groups so it looks like there's two phases so so in the email in the email this is okay the zoning commission will be holding a series of public engagement workshops and meetings um including three community workshops that focus on one the environment two housing and three so three My interpretation of that is the first one's gonna focus on environment, the second one's gonna focus on housing, and the third's gonna focus on commercial.

So the environment's tomorrow.

Yeah, that's how I understand this. The first workshop on the environment is scheduled for June 4th. Town will utilize, it doesn't say what time.

And so it sounds like other groups have not been scheduled or not public yet.

Correct, because then focus groups, town ABCs and key, so the... something boards and commissions and key stakeholders engagement, initial meetings will be held with each focus group after the topic-based community workshops. So I'm guessing that we're going to be invited to attend a focus group discussion after meeting two, which is focusing on housing. Yes. Okay. Not according to this. However, it does say something about an attached flyer and there's no flyer attached. If I find a flyer, I will send that to you. But tomorrow, I'll see if I can find out what time. And I'll share it. So, with that, is there any further discussion about tabling those items and taking them off the table to put them on the agenda for the special meeting on June 17th at 4 p.m.? Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Are you in favor of that? Yes. Any votes? I vote favor of it. Right. This was quite a popcorn meeting. And that's okay. It's not a criticism. There's a lot that we're trying to hash out. And we have new members.

Is what? Every meeting.

No, we sleep most of the time. It would not be likely. I have to tell you, like, I'm usually, I don't watch the clock too much. Like, I'm like, if discussion needs to happen, discussion's going to happen. And it's become clear to me, like, to try to keep it to an hour is great for everybody. So that's the goal. This was a different kind of meeting. Having said that, do I have a motion to adjourn?

I move to adjourn.

Thank you, Anthony. Is there a second? Second. Okay, all those in favor?

Aye. Any opposed?

Thank you. The meeting ends at 6.32 p.m.