Affordable Housing Commission - Regular Meeting

all right so Jen do you want to take it away yeah so let's get started let's call to order at 5:5 p.m. so with us we have uh myself Jen Miller uh Fred Fenton Michael fogliano anthy phys um uh an as regulars and antie viigo and Lori Walker as alternates and we have a guest in the audience um Sean masterani um so absent right now we have uh Amy and I'm missing somebody Jim and Jim CTO y so we'll proceed right now and I don't think um correct me if I'm wrong Michael we don't need to seat anybody because we have three out of five yeah if there's if there's any votes you can bring it up bring the number up Jen but there's no there's no requirement to okay yeah yeah we don't yeah we we shouldn't have any that so let's uh call to at 5: 6 and um I'm going to call for a motion to review the agenda from February or any comments on the agenda and put those into uh the minutes somebody make a motion to accept the minutes from February I make online I did not see them posted uh Yep they're posted and and in fact there's there's a duplicate which I'll get to in my next comment but um so the minutes from February are posted uh have if nobody has uh read had a chance to read them I can um just briefly go through there's um just one typo which I'm looking at the website right now on February 20th

right not the special meeting which she has on their the regular meeting just go back up one go up one we are yeah yep got it yeah yeah so let me give you a minute to uh to check those out there is one typo in there which was an an versus an on so um but it's immaterial in my opinion I did read the minutes so I can vote on them okay all right thanks let me know when you got to look at it and I'll take a motion I'm good Jan and I will make a motion to approve the minutes of February 5th 2025 thank you Michael do you have a second I second it Fred thanks B I'll just say that there's a that that one one typo is an and versus an on and um is there a motion to approve all in favor to approve all yes I I I okay motion moves uh those are approved uh one note on the website there for the old line page is that um we had on there you'll see a subsequent meeting at which is categorized on the website as a special meeting that meeting was never held because uh we didn't get it in time for the uh Foya uh timelines and that meeting was never held so I've sent a message to the uh minutes uh people at Old lime uh to take that down because that meeting was never

held um but it is posted on the website so we'll take that down in the past J when we've had that happen um I sent a uh cancellation notice in Le of minutes to to Vicki and she's posted those oh good okay but did they have the 10 this is Anthony did they have the 10:00 meeting oh it wasn't a meeting did they have a 10:00 Gathering no they had nothing yeah oh so they didn't meet with the city attorney and the engineer that never happened okay no my memory of the agenda wasn't posted in time so just me and correct yeah um two things uh L Lori and anthony two things uh you're Lori yes correct the meeting uh U the minutes should not have been posted because it was uh not for a compliance um but then alternatively Anthony um Fred was able to meet with the engineer himself but that was off that was um not meeting it was just him meeting with them in regular course of business so there's some interaction I I was confused so thank you for the clarification yeah yeah okay so we'll straighten that up okay good so um um let's just check in with our public and see who we have um in public from um for attendance I know we have Sean masani on the line is there anybody else from the public that is online okay having heard none uh any public comment Sean would you like to make a public comment um so I'm interested in joining the commission so I'm here to attend a meeting and hopefully I filled out all the paperwork for the town hall

correctly and that can be put on the agenda if you'll have me um next um lman meeting we'll see we'll see thanks for yeah thanks for approaching participating um great okay so um we're going to start now with old business um so any has anybody on the commission had any updates or uh or I'm sorry rather correspondence from the public okay hearing none we'll go on um so let's go on to updates um so Fred we'll probably start with you as the um project update person let's um see how we're doing with the mullock properties so uh last week I think a week ago maybe more uh myself Michael dick Gates the surveyor Tom medcafe the uh engineer and uh Mike Cary Town attorney met here in town hall call to discuss the Mulla projects and Tom MF and Dick Gates were the original surveyor and engineer uh uh on this project and so they're very familiar with the property and what we're doing and they agreed to re-engage with the produ uh project and complete the work in order to get us to a uh before the uh zoning board of appeals so we can get uh a variance for Access uh and help us right on through with Planning and Development so we can make two uh separate deeds and

ultimately convey to Habitat um and so they have since sent us some Visions to the original Maps they're minor um and they have been uh uh talking with Michael Cary to do whatever it needs to do that we need to do to get in front of the zoning board of appeals and just so you know that the uh application has to be given to the zoning board appeals the first Thursday of the month which is tomorrow so it's probably not going to happen this month uh at to be reviewed at the I think third Thursday of the month so I spoke with Michael Cary uh this morning and he said uh you know sorry I had this other project but uh I'm picking up right now right now I said well unless some miracle happens I don't think we're going to be on the uh calendar for this month but I made it clear that we should shoot for the fir by you know before the first Thursday of next month so right this is so that would be April uh uh that we could get in front of the zoning board of appeals uh and the I mean the two major issues if you will that they're addressing one is what do we need for what do we need for Access do we need an easement are the existing documents okay uh that and the second issue is who gets Who are the abutters so one view is it's just it's just the town because these two lots are totally

surrounded by other Town property or is it every uh property owner that abuts Mulla proc property which would be many I can't answer that the attorney will have to answer that in conjunction with Eric knap the town zoning officer uh and you know I encouraged and have been encouraging Mike Cary and Tom metf to reach out to Eric Nat whenever and however they want to so I mean this is this is I don't have the expertise to do you know to answer these questions myself they are engaged by us to do this so it it shouldn't be an issue there there's been no stated objection to this project project so Mike said he'd get on it this morning I expect to hear from him soon and hopefully he will say ah no problem we got everything we need and I will fight as soon as I can so we'll get before the zoning board of appeals in April at which point he should have pretty much everything he needs for uh Planning and Zoning but we'll see that it that is uh Mike Cary should have everything he needs he yeah when we met okay in town hall they felt that they had everything Tom mea especially who's very familiar with the process said he thought yeah I think we have everything we need you know we the the zoning board of appeals will not want a lot of bells and whistles to Grant the variant because there's a clear hardship and you know it's it's not like we're making money on this and it's been within the purview of the town it's been approved by the board of Finance

so uh should be pretty straightforward but but you need to get the proper paperwork so and they have Jen they have the full file at susman Shapiro because they did the original transaction that led to the creation of the open space and and the transaction with the with the molik family so they have a very thick file on this it was one of Mike my car's colleagues um and Fred just I think um to the question of abutters um my sense is that the minimum number of abutters other than the town itself will be will be 951 Flat Rock which is the northern of the two hope owned properties that AB buts the Eastern of the um two building Parcels yeah yeah that's what I would think this is Anthony I didn't think think there was many because I live in proximity to the property um I just think it's a good practice to be transparent you just notify them and if they have something to say they might be very supportive but I mean just do the notification and be clearly transparent mean we got nothing to hide this is well publicized for years that's my suggestion just notify the butters there's only a few couple letters and you're done yeah and and uh what hope Inc are they the current owners of the adjacent the yes yes so they they're happy with this and we'll s submit a letter and so I I'll keep you guys posted hopefully I'll hear something soon Fred I had one other thought as we went through this since we met with um the engineers and surveyor uh we're going to want to request a uh a fee

waiver for this because it is affordable housing and it is in town well I thought that was in the original uh no I know now you're right yeah I know that we requested a few yeah a waiver before but now I understand that we have to do it again I actually think there's a there's a provision in the arpa grant that says you you have to do a feed um yeah in the U small City Grant application it's mandatory that you have fee waivers so that's uh yeah so that um that is something that we will need to explicitly detail for sure in the um zoning board of appeals I think application is is um Fred the uh that there there can be no fees associated with us because um because it's affordable housing all right well I will I will mention that again to Michael Cary when it whenever I speak with them uh because I think the you know they say in the application you must submit your fee with the application yeah and obviously we won't be doing that yeah the township provide a waiver status for it all right well that's a good point Michael thank you oh yeah and just just for all all grants um that we made want to apply for that that will always apply permit and fee waivers are a standard practice for any state or go or Federal grant um that it shows that the town supports it um so that's you know one indication that um you know you have some support behind what you're going to do for the town

okay all right thanks Fred good good updates anything on um the Kimi and Grand View properties anything to do with that or should we just move on uh we should move on I my thought is that we would should not mention them until the Mulla is done and and whenever whenever dick Gates and Tom MF have done uh with Mulla then we should tend them to proceed to you know Grand View and kimick which they they uh Express their willingness to do yeah I'm only in favor of a phase one phase two kind of making it let's let's get some things done here first under our belt and then move on so I'm I'm good with the sequence on that let me just add one thing to keep in mind which is some of the funding that we're going to use to um do the pre-development work on kimik and Grand View uh is coming from our budget uh the affordable housing commission budget and uh at least some of that money was rolled over and we're approaching another budget year so it was rolled over from fiscal 23 to 24 or 24 to 2 so it was rolled over once and we don't want to have to roll it over again so it would behoove us to spend the money that was rolled over before June 1st of this year yeah okay all right well when it warms up I don't expect a favorable request to to roll with a second I don't expect a favorable response if we ask to roll totally totally understand yeah I agree I agree with you Michael yeah yeah I I did not forget about that it was just um when I said move on it it's more like you know like today's March let's just

go with it and but phing definitely yeah my uh discussion with metf and Gates is that it wasn't going to be it was not going to be a lot of money uh to finish up what they need to do on Mulla I I think certainly well under well under 10,000 probably a few grand each you know maybe I don't know under 10 maybe eight who knows uh but the balance of that money once we get a firm idea of how much that will be could be spent on chemik and Grand View is my thinking y all right y that sounds good okay good well that kind of takes us to um from the updates from uh Fred on those properties to any other development opportunities that anybody else may have um come into play with over the last month or so I I have not heard of any personally um the tax office has not really um enlighten me on to any any uh additional to what we've been looking at uh anybody else have any development opportunities that they've see Jen I don't have any new ones but we had those two Parcels up in uh by Rogers Lake those little tenth acre ones 102 yeah for yeah I I have I personally have not followed up on um either of those two properties Fred have you any more information on those not can you can you give me the addresses on them

and I'm trying to find it in my notes but I'm recalling Avon Court or something like that uh I think one of them 102 yeah I'll have I'll have to send it to you guys I'll send it out yeah 102 I think is the address of the Mile Creek property that's the Mile Creek one it could be a CO yeah no it was Trail it was Trail something so um yeah let me look back and I'll I'll check it out yeah let's let's follow up on that I know we want to put a um I thought I thought we did put a closure to that um two months ago on uh that one lot which which I think I think Michael was brought to your attention by Martha as far as um you know this is a town property what are we doing with it and it looked to be a suitable lot there was on Mile Creek uh off 102 there is about a mile excuse me an acre lot but we looked at that oh not that one no no this is the one on Rogers Lake the one on Rogers Lake that Martha turned um Michael on too that was uh yeah anyhow Let's uh let me let me back up on that Michael good call because I'll I'll look it look it back up I think we let that slide a little bit it was right off as you as you go in Roger Lake I think it was like on the left hand side yep yeah I know what you're talking about I just can't remember the address of it okay so um so as far Let's uh if if there's no other business around development opportunities uh let's move on to funding so uh funding so the small cities business develop uh small cities

Business Development Grant um so is uh still underway for this year um there hasn't been much movement so far which I would expect by by the end of this month is so um from the last year experience which was the first year experience for us so from the first year experience of us this month will be the month where the state starts to post the opportunities for the small cities block grant and that would be something that we would be eligible for as being a small City and under the qualification for the State under 50,000 residents and so we would be able to apply for that um again my hope be that we do apply for that and it goes better than last year um and that the state has their stuff together uh better than last year also um so that we could um we could make some sense out of what the application involves um uh Ive not had any further information from the board of Selectmen as far as a grant writer opportunity for um the town actually hiring a grant a professional grant writer so what I want to do right now just in Li of that um absence of that information what I think we should do is just because it's such a tight time frame this is literally March till May 31st this is the only time that we can apply for this so what I think we should do is just proceed on as if we will have no grant writer we should do it ourselves and just go Um and jump into it and um we need to have the um

definitely the support of the Town Hall um staff because we're going going to need information for this application as far as previous projects that have been completed with the money from the state so what they want to see is that the town of old lime has executed projects that um the state has given them money for and they've executed them and it's been successful so if we can show like we built a bridge you know over like that Mile Creek Bridge or you know there's there's a few examples that we could use um but we need to have the numbers we need to have the information we need to have all of that stuff so um it's a very detailed application um as you could imagine um so it's like 150 pages of information that you have to fill out unfortunately um just to prove that old lime can actually execute a project when they say they're going to execute a project so uh so anyhow um like I said last month um you know if uh there's anybody that wants on the commission that wants to help out um we can kind of parse out the um the information that we need to gather however um when it comes to the town of old Li um I'll be the point person that goes to the town of old liim um to kind of gather the information we want to make it seamless and very easy for the uh staff at the old lime town hall to not be you know coming at it from a million different people or or four or three or two different people you know to get information from them from the budget office the finance town clerk zoning tax

Etc so and all of those people will need to be involved uh to some slight slight extent you know just look up information give it to me I'll put it in the application and that's all so um but what oh go ahead uh no just what it came down to last yeah last year was just that we didn't have a complete application because we didn't have the information correctly so that was what um was the hangup last year so we just need to have a complete application so we can't just copy a lot of last year's as no okay yeah last year we did not have uh enough enough detailed in the the detail that they want is almost ridiculous it's it's it's it's basically it's a it's called a small cities application but it's actually geared toward like New Haven or Bridgeport it's not geared toward a town like old lime you know or or even eastline like even they're bigger than us but it's it's not geared toward a small town even though it's called a small City's Grant the the information they want is like these numerical codes from things that our town hall has no idea what these numerical codes mean there's there's information there's it's 150 pages of information that like there's no way that a small City could do this yeah yeah so it so and the towns that get these grants if you look back on the grant um people that have succeeded in getting these this grant money they do it they've been doing it for 20 years it's the same people they get the same money they get you know $2 million you know every year same thing um but they

are they're professionals they're they're good at it um but we are not we've never submitted it except for last year and so but we I'm going to be determined that we're going to do this um because there's going to be some way that we can overcome this bureaucracy and do this so so it's gonna happen this could be our year we'll see Jen I have a few questions and comments uh uh one when are you when are you coming back to Connecticut uh I'll be I'll be back in Connecticut uh for the April meeting okay and uh any chance that this will be cancelled like every every other federally funded program United States uh no this is a state- run program so okay yeah and it's uh been in existence for a long time so I don't think this will it's a very small amount of the budget and it's never really gone up so relative to other things it's one of those things that you pass over and just say yeah it's good and uh do you agree as uh do you think as I do that this would be the perfect project for a uh new board member to uh get involved with are you throwing Sean under the bus oh no I would never that I oh I didn't even think of I didn't even think of that I'm sorry Sean I didn't no uh you know I'd be willing to help but I would like to sit down with you and see what it involves and yeah any any board M and in fact as I as I what what we could do um let's just throw I'll throw this out there what we might want to do is like maybe we could have a special meeting um once I get all the information in hand and I I talk to the

people at State like U um uh uh all in the HUD office at State and we could um have a complete set of information of what they want from us to submit a complete application on time and um then we could have a brainstorm session and just knock it out in a couple of hours you know as far as who does what and kind of things so um I would I would be very much open to doing that and having a few people from our commission uh get together and do that brainstorm it and just um you know get tell the town of old lime exactly what information we want so we're not running all over from the town clerk to the zoning to the tax office to Martha to you know to all these people bothering them with all this stuff we submit one request it's free and clear they know what we want we know what we want and then the submission will will be Flawless um and that is usually due Memorial Day weekend so May 31st is usually when that is due so it's we have April and May basically to do this all right Jen two suggestions for resources um so one is um for the grant writing aspect of it is best cilia's team out at Chio because I think they have they're building that capability um and the second oh interesting okay this is a this is a uh Department of Housing this is under the office of Department of Housing State Department of Housing right so there's a they have a um person on staff up there his name is Ben Lovejoy and his job is to help the towns

um not necessarily with any particular Grant but just to be the liaz on for the towns to interact with with Department of Housing and he's he's the guy that when things were confused last year with getting the right forms and and documents he's the one that kind of sherp it for us and connected the dots inside of the department hous he was my contact and 's very good okay well I don't know if Sant yeah I don't know if H Santoro is still involved I'm sure he is but uh but Santoro had given as another person and uh and he was that was an intern and and he did not know anything about what was going on so um so yeah connected to do for us yeah okay all right yeah yeah I'll talk to I'll talk to Santoro and um see if um Ben can help us out for sure actually I have Ben's contact information I'll send it to you and you can reach out to him directly okay thanks thanks appreciate it Jennifer Jen this is Anthony uh centuro just spoke about that last week uh on a open call across the state for housers so he is still very instrumental and they they've staffed up since last year so you might find uh a more knowledgeable person to work with you on this and just just to make your evening go well um the city of milford's cdbg application is seven pages long who so uh I will tell you you see the effic how officious the state is and in some ways and what you said is absolutely correct I've always thought it was highly discriminatory in the way that monies that are still all federal monies the cdbg monies are like the old Revenue sharing program um are treated differently by the state vers cities now

I don't know if milford's an outlier or main line but I know what that application is it's ridiculous Pages wow unbelievable I feel so bad for you to put up with that that's that's incredible no one thing uh go go ahead there this Saturday there is a meeting uh I forget what they call it spring into spring or something at town hall for the heads of all the commissions yes March 8th yeah commit and so I'm going to be there and I will ask anyone who's who will listen to about you know grant writing and grant writer and assistance and you know what we can do about getting some help yeah it's and and I think Fred that that this particular application is not so much there's not a lot of verbiage that's like not pleading for help it's not like a like let me write an essay about how bad we are and we need to improve and that kind of thing it's not a lot of pleading it's just more inform AAL as far as uh transaction information so it it lists you know your your population your density some State kind of codes that only certain people would know what these codes are and and all the stuff and then it goes into the details around your budget and how the town splits their budget and then um you know various things attributes around housing and attributes around uh things that you know one would never know uh like so um what name three projects that you did in the last five years that you success successfully completed with State money you know okay well where are we going to get that information from so

you know you go to the town you figure out what they need and um you know we built a bridge uh we did you know something on sidewalks you know so it's it it's just weird information that you wouldn't think that it would be on an application such as this so it's it's just a conglomeration of abstract things that doesn't seem to me and this is just my naive on this but it just doesn't seem to me that this would be something that you're judging a small City when you're calling it a small City development block grant that you would say all right prove to me that you're small city is going to like you know push this through so they want you to be successful and and all of this is scored on points and so they give you points for like is your application complete you get X number of points is did you fill out this information points did you have three projects or two projects yeah points so it's a totally Point scored thing it's it's a very um I don't I don't know who invented this thing but it's very weird um but anyhow that's what we have to deal with but I I I know that we can overcome it and we can do it um just last year was just not the best uh the best trial and the state last year um to uh to our credit the state um was very ill prepared to actually deal with this last year anyways they delayed the application till June uh the the training was uh ridiculously hopeless hopeless so um so anyhow uh this year I'm hoping it will be better and I'm hoping it will come pretty soon there's no information on it yet but um and it's coming up on to March now so uh

we'll see and everything's mandatory if you don't attend uh you are out immediately so if you can't make the uh the meetings that they uh they say that you have to make then you're automatically excluded from the group so so that's another thing so that's why I need a little backup because uh I I sometime I may not be able to make some of the meetings CU my my son is being deployed so uh in at the end of March on March 30th so so we'll see all right so that's that under um under that was way too long I'm sorry to take up take up all that time on funding opportunities but um let's go on to new business because I know there's a a bunch of uh things going on at the start of the year as it always is um bunch of new businesses going on and so um I'd sent out on very short notice and I don't expect everybody has gone through the materials to uh to read all this but there's a a few things going on coming out of legislator and in committee at the uh uh Connecticut state um legislature um so Michael know if you want to just maybe touch on um the most important of those so far yeah and actually I can Jenna and and I'll bundle them um so there's good news and bad news right I'll start with the good news um and this covers uh 6992 and uh later 1308 so uh those are the good news initiatives and that uh

what they amount to is that uh there's a homes for Connecticut program being proposed that would provide funding to developers to create additional housing in recognition of the the housing short shortage in in Connecticut um the way I interpret it and this is strictly an amateur interpretation is that it's so you have chfa mortgages that go to home buyers this is this looks to me like almost a chfa type of program which is a a subsidized and guaranteed loan that would go to home developers if they if they develop um housing that's that's uh needed which is the smaller and affordable so that's one of them the one uh has not a lot of teeth but it actually establishes a starter home working group uh within the legislature to at least um systematically I hope address that need and opportunity and as you know for that is one of the one of the key elements of our affordable housing strategy that we set out in the afford in the 2022 affordable housing plan so um the good news there is that the state is is um not just putting out mandates on it they're looking at some funding and and actually zeroing in on on starter homes as a specific opportunity that that matches with an opportunity and a need that that we had identified for o line so that's the good news Okay um the other news is um 6944 and actually I'm going to rewind from 6944 back to 2023 uh the fair share legislation that essentially has a

um a working group in the state look at the assess the Gap in housing for the state and allocate that PE uh divide up that that Gap and allocate quotas to the towns that was called the fair share legislation um it passed in a relatively benign form in 2023 which established a committee to just come up with a methodology and run some initial numbers on what it would look like this this originated with the open communities Alliance um a not for-profit group um so that was passed into the law in 2023 and that group has been active it's a little behind schedule they're due to I think publish some draft numbers later in the spring um but now we see 6944 come in and what that does is that and it modifies 830 J significantly to uh to mandate that the towns come up with a specific plan to meet those quotas and uh it actually raises the bar again for towns that have uh whose Ami is 80% or greater of the state Ami so that the the top quintile of of Amis in the state are singled out for an additional planning step um to specifically address through zoning uh how to meet the quotas that are are sent down from the state

um which essentially uh operationalizes the original fair share concept that was met with a lot of resistance and what didn't come out in much of the testimony but buried within that legislation is what I see is something really significant which is it gives standing to any quote unquote interested party that's defined as anyone uh with tax exempt status or a developer um so a developer of of housing or a an organization with tax exempt status whose mission is uh promoting affordable housing to take the Department of Housing uh to court if they don't like the progress that's being made and and seek remedy there to uh to uh compel REM remedies so it's it's it's uh it it's been opposed by both River Cog strongly opposed by river Cog and I included the testimony from from Sam gold in the packet and it's also been opposed by the Connecticut Council of small towns of which old lime is a member so uh so essentially Michael um in in layman's terms um these groups these organizations be it either a 501c3 or a uh quote unquote developer um they could actually sue the the town of old lime to um to progress affordable housing under their terms yeah and I'll put a finer point on I don't think I didn't read it as it gives them standing to sue the town it gives them standing to bring Department

of Housing to court and cause them the town okay but in any case it's it's it's more than operationalized it it's it's kind of weaponized it yeah right and given standing to not for-profit groups that that don't directly create housing that and that are quote unquote interested parties so that's one of the basis for the opposition that's coming from cost and from uh from River Cog so yeah and and Co and cost um cost um you're talking about cho cho what you're saying contic Council Connecticut Council of small towns oh okay and old is a member of that yeah and I think there's a story to tell here and and I would suggest to to um for discussion that we might want to uh get together with the Planning and Zoning commissions and anyone else who's Ed from town and the board of Selectmen and potentially weigh in on this to um our our elected officials that would be Devin Carney for the for the house and Martha Mars for the Senate and Martha is actually co-chair of the housing uh committee so she's got a a direct seat at the table and a leadership role so um I think at a minimum we might want to send something to our elected officials just to weigh in on the good news and bad news you know support the the allocation of funds this is my opinion I'm not trying to speak for the group we could discuss this no but at least weigh in on this potentially you know in a more balanced way than just Oppo than just opposing one of the bills but but but uh potentially supporting some of the other legislation that's proposed

but so that's it and I'll stop talking and turn over to discuss no as always good information Mike from the legislature so um so um let's let's maybe open it up just for a few minutes and just um see what other others think so um on this particular last issue so we've got the um good news from the initiatives for um housing for Connecticut and the funding for developer developers and all that and chfa um creating a little bit more funding there but on the um uh interesting news I would say on the fair share quotas that's something that we've talked about for gosh over a year now uh or we've mentioned in passing for over a year over maybe two years now actually um how this is um just not tenable or We Believe It's Not tenable for old lime to adopt this fair share Act um but now that it's progressing out of committee which I I did not think it ever would but now that it's progressing that way oh it's still in committee okay all right the fa share committee was passed into law in 23 but everything I described just now is still in committee still in committee okay all right so thank goodness for that so uh in my opinion um so um uh are there like what are what are your discussion points anybody have any opinions on this as far as um not not that we should uh progress to writing a letter but um what are thoughts uh from the commission on on the fair share act and do uh does anybody have any questions on what the fair share act actually is because um we may have

missed a couple people along the way Jen this is Anthony um I I agree with the concern that Michael articulated in fact um uh we just had a Statewide meeting and uh this came up Michael centuro addressed some of the issues like the fair housing fair share issue uh there was a report that kind of said that Hartford and Fairfield County would be targeted for resources for housing because that's where the housing was needed now Michaels Coral wasn't supportive of it and he thinks that U sounded as if it didn't have a lot of weight Statewide that particular report that came out uh but the other bill that um gets into really uh a state control of housing is the more dangerous one so in fact I just sent out to uh my housing and legislative Committee for Public ERS uh and to our lobbyist or paid Communicator uh asking for an analysis and some legal Insight so I have not gotten that report back but I'll be more than willing to share it because it's public information so I did do that because public housing has a a lot of concerns about these same bills and they line up a lot with what maybe even exceed a little bit um Michael's uh concerns because um the state's trying to usurp authorities and not just communities but public housers to be able to do their job and they want to do a top down controlling from the state and uh that goes right at the heart of home rules and that's the B that's a

political battle that's going on it's a philosophical battle and uh the number two person rohos state representative rohos out of East Hartford has a he's really intent more controlling of where housing goes um and what impediments there are and of course I believe for a long time that zoning issues are red hering and they're starting to find out that the issues are much deeper than just zoning it was a nice talking point it's going been going on for three or four years I said this is a red herring this is ridiculous um and again U no one wants to give up those authorities that have invested in communities across 169 towns in Connecticut um so there's a big philosophical battle going on that's pushing some of these uh because of raised bills it doesn't mean they've come out of committee and uh they might just die in committee or they can be referred to other committees so what'll happen is that there's the chances are that this is going to be shopped around and uh you know if it doesn't get out of all the Committees it doesn't move forward it kind of die on the vine or just sit on a calendar even if it gets voted out but uh I I'll share whatever information I get with the commission here because we're concerned in public housing as much as you're concerned here in O okay that's great thanks Anthony that's that's great good so uh so any other thoughts on this um I I I would propose that it's um would behoove us to at least describe a letter in support of of um the river

Cog and um our Affiliates there um so CC um connectic towns of council whatever so so that would be um almost a no-brainer but Michael would you say that we would um how would that I'm unfamiliar with this territory so would it go through basically the board of Selectmen to do that or would we just submit it to River Cog and uh CCT or how would that work I'll just say history on that one Jen which is back in 23 when the original fair share uh was proposed ra you um plan the first Elman and um I don't think we got to the point where there was a a single letter from the town but there was was coordinated communication done from from planning zoning and the uh and the board of Selectmen and the affordable housing commission so uh if if you and Fred would uh would be interested in in doing that that's an Avenue um there's nothing to stop an individual or a commission from writing from from communicating with with our elected representatives either Michael does River Cog and uh the other connectic small cities organizations do they communicate to uh uh the selectman's office not selectman uh Well they um Let Me cast that Martha is on the board of of the regional of of river Cog

by definition the 17 towns that are part of that Council of government okay um all the chief Executives for the 17 municipalities that are part of the the lower Connecticut River Valley Council of governments that's River Cog are are the board for that Cog so yeah they're they're in the loop on this um and okay and riverock communicates directly with the leg ISL through testimony as as did as did Betsy gar from from from cost and those two uh their testimony I included in the in the packet and how about the what the Connecticut small cities organization that you mentioned that's C Rel small towns do do they have a connection with our selectman's office yeah they're on the at least a mailing list I don't know if there's as formal a relationship as there there is with uh um okay with the c I don't know if there's a board so yeah they're not they're not so much a governance body right Michael that no they're a they're a u advisory yeah yeah working group yeah yeah I think the the the big player here is the is River COG because they represent uh a a u almost like a lobbying body if you will um to the state and um they represent so many towns so I think the the the the possibility here is that if we treat this like we did in 23 is to try to coordinate with within the town to just come up with a with a coordinated unified response from the

town to our elected reps yeah s Carney and Martha Mars yeah and it could be as simple as just concurrence with riverock yep yep other thoughts uh Lori we haven't heard from you I'm not sure if you dropped off or not are you there do you have any thoughts on this no just listening carefully okay I don't have anything um to add at this moment okay all right awesome Sean as an outside Observer any questions no I I think that I'm good um I do know that representative Nolan who's just over in New London I believe he proposed a bill with actual fines if you don't um meet um a certain quota of affordable housing so I don't know what number his proposed bill is but I do believe he had that on his social media a week or so ago okay that's probably um more in promoting the fair share fair share act so that's in the bill 6944 right so okay so um I I think what I'm hearing is that uh Fred maybe you and I should get together and create a um a statement of position basically to put forward to the board of Selectmen um to um to make a statement basically about our position on this in support of river cogs position which is to

oppose the fair share state uh the fair share act as proposed uh Bill 6944 yes that sounds good um I'm not sure if this should be so my uh Na on on these foer meetings is should this be a motion should this be something that the board decides or is this just something that Friday and I can just do Michael do you have any advice for us here I think that um I'll give a lawyer's answer it depends [Laughter] um so uh you have certain prerogatives individuals do um but if you want to speak for the for the commission I think you know then it probably you probably want to put it before the commission to approve it I got you um so I I I let's all um discuss this so um so I would be in favor of putting this forward as an affordable housing commission of old Li Connecticut um you know proposal to support uh to support the river Cog in their effort to defeat uh 6944 I second your motion it was kind of it was kind of just a proposal but I didn't make a move so we uh so um yeah legally I'm not sure if that's correct or not but do do do you want someone else to

make a more formal motion yes another another option Jen would be for uh you Andor Fred just to uh connect with Martha and perhaps the the Planning and Zoning commissions and see if they they had interest in and figure out you know what what voice will be used for whatever communication goes out whether it's the town individual commissions or individuals yeah I think that's where yeah I think that's where we're confused yeah yeah and because there's so many different boards and uh 501c3 entities involved um you know I think that's why it's difficult for um for us as a small Commission in a small town to kind of make kind of a stand um so it makes sense to have um the entire town get on board and it would be more beneficial for the entire Board of Selectmen to make a a I don't know we call it a decree or a stand or a proposition um to the larger Regional uh Council of governments to then say this is what old lime supports rather than us just making a statement so I think that makes a lot of sense so ju um you know we're kind of winging it here as you as you can tell but Jen this this is Anthony I I like first of all I think it's strategic and it's political Board of Selectmen I like let them uh bring in the parties that they would like to and do a um some kind of a resolution if it's uh their desire to do that uh the board of selectman that

represents the whole community and they can invite whatever stakeholders they want to but I do think it's so important but it is a strategic move and it's political and of course those are two of the reasons why we have Board of Selectmen or elected representatives they handle those kinds of questions so I like your idea of getting together with them letting them Corral it uh we can do advise them Michael could or you could or Fred could you know encourage them to look at this a little bit more closely and um uh begin taking some action or thinking about what they could do and I know there's maybe a time frame that it has to be done because uh the legislature is moving fast on this stuff so you can't sit around and ponder it for like 6 months but um I think I I think you might do something like that you and Fred might just stir their interest and see if they want to pursue anything because I would I think I think we should do that as a community not just as a commission but as a community I mean it's it's a big change in the relationship between the state and in in municipalities that's river river Cog is the group in the lobbyist and Martha's on the board of river car right and I'm uh I mean I'm wondering we have to do anything I mean certainly this is not going to fly under of the radar yeah well the the difference is is that we're a legal subdivision of the state of Connecticut River Cog is not I mean we're a municipality that has a lot different standing legal standing in the state government governance in my opinion um they're a planning agency that assists legal entities and we are you know so what leg that standing so what would we as a town the board of Select what would they do so I think what would be a good

recommendation this is Sean and if I can't talk you just let me know I think making a motion well first of all I think like Martha I consider her like the CEO of the town and I think it should the communication should go through her um to the legislature or whoever and so I think the motion should probably be that this commission gives um Fred and Jen the permission to meet with Martha yes to convey our thoughts and feelings about the proposals requesting her to write a letter you know passing that along I think it would go further coming from her and as the CEO of the town I'm sure she has good relationships with the State Rep and the senator that her communication would go to our local reps how she could also could be submitted as testimony if there's going to be any more hearings as well and and and I think it our one of our founding principles allow for that advisory activity to go forward right and nice I don't you the full board or you go to the first select person I I think that's you got to do something and just sit down in an advisory capacity because the founding principles do say that's what the commission is supposed to do and start a conversation with the I think CEO is a good way to do it this is running a business here running a town running a business I like that yeah I think I agree with that all right so I I like that uh uh can Anthony can you make a motion to that effect allowing me in Jen to speak with um I'll move a motion that the affordable commission Anthony's not seated so uh uh Fred Michael or myself

have to do that so oh I'm not I'm not officially seated at this meeting yeah yeah because we already have a quorum so no it's not a quorum I mean even if you have a quorum that's not the glinting thing is that they have a full commission alternates are supposed to sit to fill the commission out not just at the Quorum but that's that's okay I won't get into that no my bad if if that's true that's my bad it's okay I I'll let someone else make the motion exclusionary I was thinking like Anthony as well that you usually SE the alternates if um other members aren't there correct great the marer a motion motion to you'll need a motion we don't need a motion no you don't all right so help us out somebody Jen and Fred you can see uh who do we have we have three Regulators here yep okay so there's you can seat both Anthony and Laura Lori beautiful all right Anthony can you make a motion please I'll try to help you out okay uh I make a motion at the affordable housing commission of the uh town of Old Line uh direct its uh co-chairs to meet with the first select person in an advisory capacity to uh express our interests in working with the Town on State proposals that would affect housing in the city or the town maybe request that she

communicate some sort of communication I I the reason I I wouldn't do that is because it's not my prerogative the commission tell CEO to do hold on let's I know there's side discussion but let's clarify the Motions uh just to be sure that we've got it on the record so Anthony uh Anthony's making a motion to have the co-chairs of the affordable housing commission be able to meet with the first select woman of old lime um for this specific task of understanding and proposing um The commission's Proposal on Bill 6944 or or interest in Bill 6944 in the impact on the on the town and impact on the town okay probably put advisory capacity in that that's what I originally did so they have the chairs the co-chairs meet in an advisory capacity all right well we have to have a clear motion so okay so that was the motion and then do we have a second on that motion and then we can discuss the motion I second the motion frad seconds the motion now for open for discussion should we clarify the motion are there any other comments around the motion one one Jen and and thanks Anthony that was that was well put I I might suggest that we expand the scope of that Beyond 6944 and just open it up to uh raised bills affecting housing including six I'll accept that I'll accept that as a friendly Amendment it's a little casual but I'll accept that I think it's a good suggestion I I like that and and the rationale

behind that Anthony is during the communication um it leaves latitude to express support for the funding or the um or the study group on on starter homes no I I I agree Michael I I don't think I had a specific Bill originally so I'm glad you you spoke up in favor I was just using that language because it was suggested I agree 100% with you that should be a little bit more open I think it's excellent point Thank you and accept it but so uh so to clarify U Michael that would be to allow the um the chairpersons of the affordable housing commission to meet with uh the select wh woman so that would be Martha or could it be the board of Selectmen to um discuss 6944 and any other bills uh put forth with regard to affordable housing in the state of Connecticut sounds good to me okay Michael this is Anthony just a quick thing I I like it I don't like the reference to the particular Bill and others because sometimes when you mention it they just focus in on it as opposed to a broader issue as you first articulated it I like the way you artic at without a bill number so they don't get fascinated about a particular Bill and it opens up a more uh form with more uh flexibility to talk about various things although that bill be brought up a couple of others I I don't like a specific bill in the motion it should be more General like I think you originally said Michael I agree with that yeah my only my only thing with that Ane is that now we're going around like because I can talk to Martha at any

time that I want to call her I could call text and email her at any time that I want so I could discuss anything with her at any time um so so my only point would be is as far as this commission goes the affordable housing commission is that um if we're making a motion to dis discuss a specific topic that we want to resolution on um should it not be that um we are are directing her to our attention to focus on this particular Bill and as Michael said perhaps any other bill in this kind of uh trajectory or this uh you know this this Vibe of you know these things 6069 292 6944 whatever but it it just seems like um you know I can I could talk to Martha Jude or or Jim lampos at any time and and do anything but but to have the um to have it go forth as an affordable housing commission uh joint effort um and us as a team proposing this it would be in our interest to say that uh the uh affordable housing commission as a team is going forward and to talk to you about this you know that's my only thing I wanted to make it a little bit more specific than maybe what Anthony you're giving a little leeway to is like you know we can talk to them about anything at any time so well you see the thing I'm try does gives you the weight of the commission again like you could talk to them any time but that would be your personal opinion right and this is a

motion for you to speak on behalf of the commission right right right right yeah well I just wanted to make that clear that this is this is our commission's proposal not just you know somebody having conversation on the side hallway and I would say you have that conversation just with Martha because if you involve the other two it's the same then they have to post it as a meeting because the Selectmen have Quorum right okay take the form of you go into uh getting on the agenda of the board of Selectmen right so let's so let's read so let's rethink then the proposal so we're still in discussion on this motion so let's um so let's kind of firm this up now so uh the original motion was to have the affordable housing commission uh representative meet with a select woman which would be Martha um and to delve into the uh Bill 6944 and quote any other bills related to that so um so let's let's drill this down and just get a a very clarifying position on this J I have to step away for 30 60 seconds but I'll be back for the vote you can word Smith away go ahead M all right so what so what do we want to um so if we're like faced let's just say we're we're here um Board of selectman is there um what do we want to say to them as far as um this bill is concerned well we're talking about the

fair share quota J J we had a motion in a second you have a motion this is not it's not a ad hoc committee we're not in the committee the whole talking about I know it's nice to do that but we have to focus in you can vote it up you can vote it down you can propose changes to the original uh motion no we have a Anthony we have a motion in in a second and then there's discussion and the discussion will change whatever the motion was so we're in the discussion phase right now but okay well okay discussion phase means you speak in favor of it or against the motion that's the way it's done on the Parliamentary procedure to keep the proceedings clear and then you can use various techniques to you know uh amend it the call secondary amendments I'm trying to do it more casual by accepting what Michael said so speak for or against if you don't like it call for a vote and vote it down and someone else can make another motion I mean that's you dispose of it quickly and then someone else can make a different motion that's it I me there's nothing here Bea it to death no we're not beating it to get death Anthony what I'm trying to get to is what exactly is if you were faced with the board of Select women um today what would you say that we are proposing to her that I don't get what the actual proposal is why are we actually having a conversation with her we need to make it crystal clear why we are taking up her time so give me the number one thing why we're meeting with her other than to say that we are opposed to

6944 I I made a motion and I thought it was clear but that's again subject no you made a motion to meet with the select woman so no I mean it was more to the motion than that and there was one speaker uh to open it up and not be specific to a bill number which was accepted as a friendly Amendment although that you know but I don't know who wrote down the motion but that's okay I mean like I said it's a motion it's on the floor if you want to call for a vote and vote it up and down you can write another motion I mean spent a long time it's pretty it's pretty straightforward you just want to basically say in advisory capacity that uh the affordable housing commission is asking requesting or directing uh the the two co-chairs to meet with the first select person to discuss um the question was whether or not we do a specific bill or whether or not we um talk about uh I'm sorry to interrupt oh ABC meeting has completed so we're leaving the building and I'm going to lock the two doors near the meeting Hall you're locking the middle door here yes you want me to lock all the doors and then do it uh in the room Jen you can't just no one can come in do you want me to leave the middle door unlocked the way you had planned this is Administrative matter about the city hall being closed down down yes yeah but I'm going to lock the meeting holder so we're gone thank you sorry any problem yeah no problem all right um let's this um I I know um you're probably going to get uh cut off of your telecon per KY at 6:30 which is 6 minutes from now so what I understand is that um and let's just see uh totally appreciate all

that so um um a meeting with the select woman would be beneficial for Fred and I to do that to ex uh to make sure she understands all of the background information on the fair share act uh what we're referring to as 6944 and that um we have some concerns about that and the motion that is still pending is that emotion to have us meet with the uh Fred and I to meet with the select woman to um to make sure that she understands the ramifications of 6944 and other related bills so uh if this well let's just go with this that this requires a motion we have a second and any other further further discussion on this motion that was put forth by Anthony and seconded by Laura Lori sorry okay hearing no discussion all in favor say I I I I any opposed please say no okay the motion carries um Jen can I before we conclude the meeting can I just say uh bring up one new matter of course okay I think you have brought this up you know the Halls Road Redevelopment committee has this overlay district and we don't know if it's going to be passed or failed or anything uh but I I think you suggested

that to the extent any new housing is being uh produced uh that we write we we request that uh similar to the open space a certain percentage to be uh devoted to affordable housing is that a fair recitation of what you were thinking oh yeah th those were my personal concerns yes so is this uh so I'm going to open up to discussion any thoughts I have some are you asking about uh an inclusionary affordable housing provision in the uh yes in the hrd yeah it's in there it's already in there what does it say there's a it's it's still in it's still under discussion that the hearing is open um and since I'm on the zoning commission I'm not going to offer an opinion on this but um in the current h Road overlay um proposal there is there is it includes 10% it includes a 10% uh inclusionary provision so that um any housing that's built excellent uh under the under the overlay regulations um have to include 10% beautiful thank you just I have a comment on this but you're right I agree 100% with you Mika but just a word of caution because I read a lot of stuff and I hear things but this is not my opinion I believe this is a law and I'm going to give you an example so in the city of mil a diner a diner goes out business

not a big one regular Diner little parking area Okay developer buys it does an 8-30g doesn't care what the zone is doesn't care about overlays and says he's going to build 86 apartments on a plot of land that a diner would sit on with them parking my point is this idea that you can restrict housing to senior hous or this kind of housing it depends on the money you touch and it depends on a developer coming in and they can do whatever they want by dropping an 8- 39g now the formable Housing Commission could say well that's great that's a 30% set aside probably for about 60% or or 60 to 80 you know which is middle class housing but it could be lower than that and some of those numbers get into Section 8 my point is is that this community and none of our official bodies here have any control whatsoever on what a developer may or may not do once you open that door and I don't hear people being cautious about the kind of housing it's portrayed as being locked in by some kind of regulations or zoning and we know that's not the case under state law my and I don't think that's an opinion I think it's state law and it happens all the time so you got to be careful I'm not for or against I'm not talking that the overlay but I'm just saying that as affordable housing commission um 8-30g is a tool that the states relied on very heavily since 1991 I think so good comment agree uh we may get cut off in some way at 6:30 okay uh I'm not sure what that's about but uh uh yeah K Katie

uh Katie set the meeting up uh on T from 5: to 6:30 so um just warning may not happen let's just see so uh do we I think we should Mak an a motion to adjourn yeah I I think um this is great conversation and we have um certainly definitely a great topic to carry on to our next meeting and P and perhaps we may um have a special meeting in between um our next meeting um because I think there's some topics here that we can really get into um be before our April meeting so um uhu Fred and I will put our heads together and let's see what happens but um in the meantime um our next meeting is scheduled for April 2nd and uh hopefully everybody can attend and if anybody has any further agenda items that they wish to submit just let me know um but otherwise I will make a motion to adjourn for tonight I'll second it all in favor hi okay meeting adjourned