Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call tonight's meeting to order. Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. As we begin our meeting this evening, I'll take a moment to acknowledge that we do have a quorum of planning commissioners present with eight of nine in attendance. Commissioner Breen was unable to attend this evening. I want to thank everyone in the chamber and everyone online for attending this evening's meetings. Planning commission meetings are an important part of the process for interpreting and applying the city's comprehensive plan and unified development ordinance. It's important that our meetings are conducted with dignity and respect. that applies to every person in attendance. We strive to provide an atmosphere where the ideas and opinions of all participants are held in the highest regard. Finally, the actions on the issues we discuss are ultimately under the responsibility of the city council. As a planning commission, we're here to help the council as our elected representatives to be fully informed to make the best choices for our city. By statute, the Planning Commission strives not to engage with any party on the issues on our agenda prior to this meeting. Should that interaction take place as a result of a business relationship or other extended interaction, which we refer to as ex parte communication, commissioners will report that interaction when we reach that item in the agenda. For those of you who are new to attending a planning commission, I cover that every meeting. But we have a lot going on tonight and I'll talk through the process as we go so everybody has a full understanding when we get to that item in the agenda. I do want to make a couple of notes on some misinformation that I came across just to make aware. Your commission members here are not elected individuals. We were all appointed by either Mayor Bacon or Mayor Copeland. They serve here on a voluntary basis, and we are here to help the city council to make our final decisions. To reemphasize what I said, it will be the city council that makes the final decision. Whether we pass or deny the application here, it still goes to the city council, and they have the final say. And they can do the opposite of what we do if they want. There's no scenario where this issue comes to a close tonight. It will move on to the City Council regardless of the outcome of this evening's activities. We are purely just the venue for the public hearing, for everybody to come and state their position. And I stated in a respectful manner. And when we get to that item in the agenda, I'll expand on that just a little bit more. Before that, now we'll move on to the consent agenda. This evening we have five items on our consent agenda. The consent items are listed, considered routine by the Planning Commission and may be approved in one motion. There is no public hearing held for consent items. And there will be no discussion unless there's something that a commissioner requested to be pulled from the consent agenda and considered separately. Commissioners, do we have anything that falls under that category that you'd like to have additional information from staff? If not, I'll call for a motion on the remaining items.

Mr. Chair, I move to approve the consent agenda.

Thank you, Commissioner Sealing. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you, Commissioner Chapman. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. That motion passes 8-0. Now we'll move on to the regular business, and tonight we do have one scheduled public hearing. Before we begin, I would like to make a few statements about the special use permit application process. The case will be presented by staff, and after the staff's presentation and recommendation, we'll begin calling individuals up that have signed up to speak. I want to thank everyone who is attending this evening. This case has obviously garnered a lot of interest, and we appreciate participation of everyone. We understand that the comments and feedback that the public has submitted to the city and people on this dais have spent time reading all of them and are aware of the issues and concerns that were expressed. When we get to the point of the public hearing, tonight we're interested in hearing new information. If you are submitted a letter or email, it's not necessary to get up and speak and tell us the same things that were in your email. Those things are already part of the record, and they'll be fully shared with the city council as well. I'll go into more details on that, but before we move to that, we can move on with our staff presentation.

All right, Commissioner Kim Hollingsworth, Planning and Development Manager. And as was introduced, this is a special use permit request before you this evening for the Starfish Project Foundation. The three-acre property is located southwest of 135th Street and Brougham Drive, as depicted on this aerial. The property was zoned to the CP1 district in 1979 as part of a 360-acre area south of 135th Street that contained multiple zoning districts. In 1997, the property directly to the west was zoned to the CP2 district. Additionally, there's C2 to the north, an R1 single-family district zoning to the south. The Elevato Latha Comprehensive Plan does designate this property as community commercial, and that is for commercial developments located along major roadways, such as 135th Street. These areas are meant to serve the local population as well as those traveling throughout the city. So the site includes an existing building, about 15,000 square feet, that was constructed in 1995 as part of the Aldi grocery store development. Most recently, it was occupied for a quilting retail store. And the use before you this evening is the community food and personal support services land use that includes the collection and distribution of food, clothing, and personal care items. The applicant did provide a statement of purpose that is attached in your meeting packet called Attachment A that provides more details about the operations of the organization, any activities that would be occurring on the property. And one main thing to note are the hours of operation. So the hours of operation have a couple things, but the main thing is the times that the building is open to the public is Monday through Friday, 9 to 5, the second Saturday of the month from 10 to 2. There's also donation hours that would be lesser and within those hours that are open to the public. So on the property, just a couple things. So the building is located towards the east portion of the property, and there are 114 parking spaces in this parking lot, which is significantly more than the minimum required of 19 for this land use. There are a couple things about circulation on the property. So two items to note, donations can be accepted at the main doors, the main entrances within that portion of the building, or right about here on the property, there is a door that could be drive up, then volunteers would take items and bring it into the building. So there's meant to be two areas where donations can be received by the public that are coming to this building. Also want to note that there will be additional landscaping added to the property, so enhancing some areas where there could be missing trees and things that have happened over time, but specifically honing in on this area adjacent to the residential. So this area is meant to have very heavy landscaping, a lot of year-round evergreen-type species, so those will be added back in to the property and actually exceed our typical UDO requirements. So next, I'm going to move to traffic, and I'm going to have Charlie Love, our chief development engineer, come up here and talk about access and traffic on the property.

Good evening, Commissioners. Charlie Love, Chief Development Engineer. And I'm going to speak to a few items in regards to traffic. The first thing I want to go over is just really just peak hour traffic and kind of what this site experiences. Currently, the morning peak hours is approximately, it's experienced about approximately from 7.30 a.m. to 8.30 a.m. In the evening, that peak hour is actually between 5 and 6 p.m. I make mention of that because the hours of operation that is being proposed for this business is Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. And I just make note of that because that morning peak hour of when it opens is actually just after what's really going to be experienced there in regards to morning peak hour traffic. And I feel like that's important to make note of. The applicants provided an estimate. That estimate, I believe, is 40 trips per hour. That estimate's based on past counts of the number of people that has visited previous locations occupied by the organization. One item I do want to clarify, because I think there's been some statements in regards to how many people this property serves and some of those numbers. While they have 40 visitors at an hour, I think they have said that they serve up to 1,000 people per day. And sometimes that math doesn't quite math, but when they say that they serve a thousand people per day, that number is actually based on if somebody comes there, visits that site, they may pick up something and then deliver it out offsite. of which may serve 25, 50, even more people. So those don't necessarily correlate. And so what we did was we had discussions with the applicant on how many actual people are coming in on those peak hours. And that's really what we were focused on. in regards to that peak hour volumes and how that compared what I'll say is to previous uses that have been on this site. And the one that I want to call your attention to is the biggest one is previously this had been an Aldi's. And really that grocery store type operation, you know, we're estimating a lot larger PM peak hour. That type of use is significantly higher than what is proposed for this development and so really when we look at those uh based on what the proposed use of the estimated traffic demand is it's well within or below the range of traffic that could actually be generated by this property if a different already approved use goes into this site such as a retail grocery store or possibly a sit-down restaurant and there's even other uses within the zoning although it probably wouldn't go into that building say that it was to go to a different type of building that's allowed by that use for instance fast food that would even generate even more traffic so this particular use that's going to be on site is actually a lower use of traffic than what's already been used on that site before in regards to when aldi's was located there Really, the final item I have is I just want to touch base on the city is executing a CIP project this year. It's a little bit of an overlay project. They're on 135th Street. But one of those items that we're addressing is those signal poles that will reach their maximum lifespan. They're about 30 years old. And so those poles are being removed and replaced. And as part of that, what we're doing is we're bringing that intersection up to really what we want for our standards. And what it'll be doing is it'll be adding that right turn. So you're traveling westbound on 135th Street to turn right and go north on Brougham. That right turn lane is going to be added as well as if you're traveling north on Brougham. there'll be a right turn so that you can then travel eastbound on 135th Street. Those are two things that are happening. Both of those are going to, essentially, that project's going to replace that aging signal infrastructure, and it's going to increase the overall capacity and efficiency of that intersection as well. And that's what I have on traffic, so I'll turn it back over to Kim. Thanks, John.

Thanks, Charlie. I'm going to continue on with the waiver request. So as part of this application, the applicant is requesting one waiver from the UDL. The CP1 district has a somewhat unique standard that is only within this district in our code, and it's a performance standard. So this is that there's only permitted to be two passenger delivery vehicles associated with this property. And the request of the applicant is to have one small box truck. And the main purpose of this truck is to pick up items from other properties, so things that people are donating and bringing it to the property. These would be items on pallets that require that kind of loading capability. This should be just two to three donations per week. The truck would be stored on the property when it's not in use. And really the intention is to use that loading dock that is already on the south side of the property. So items can pass directly through into the building instead of being unloaded in the parking lot and then brought into the front door. So staff is supportive of this waiver request for a couple of reasons. Because it's the most minimal use of a truck and the smallest size truck that could feasibly be used for this essential part of the operation. Additionally, it's making use of that existing loading dock that was already on the property. And also, there's going to be additional landscaping, items added to enhance the property that go beyond UDL requirements. So I'm gonna move on to the public correspondence. So a neighborhood meeting was held on July 6th of this year, about 80 attendees at that meeting. The meeting minutes of that meeting are provided in your packet. After the neighborhood meeting, the applicant did meet with several neighbors, provided that information to us, meeting with several neighbors in proximity to the property, including directly adjacent, and also met with the Olathe Police Department to complete a preemptive analysis of the property. And what that does is it looks at the property to reduce any safety challenges that are related to the built environment and tries to minimize any of those items. So it's a preemptive analysis that the applicant did on their own to work on that ahead of time. Moving on to public notice, public notice requirements were met through the 200-foot certified letters that were sent out to surrounding property owners, as well as a notice signed on the property. After all of these items occurred, we've received about 103 letters, actually 105 because I just gave you two that we received after the email I sent you earlier today. So all of those have been passed to the Planning Commission, and then ultimately we pass all of these letters on to our City Council. Some primary feedback topics that we are hearing addressed in those letters are related to access and traffic, safety and crime perceptions of the use on this property, general property maintenance concerns, and then also support for the organization, the community benefit of the services and personal experiences volunteering or being part of the organization. So all of those items are provided to you for your review. I'm going to talk a little bit about process. So special use permit approval criteria. And so the first step is looking at what you know as the UDO golden criteria. Those are the standards that all rezoning and special use permit applications are evaluated against. And this application does align with that criteria. Then we look at that the governing body, which is our city council, can impose restrictions on the duration of the permit, so the period of time it can be in place, and any other requirements that are deemed necessary in line with our UDO requirements. The last thing is that a final site development plan can be required, and that's something that staff is recommending that would be executed right after approval, the special use permit, and I'll go through those stipulations that relate to that. the special use permit process just to go a little higher level here about the process steps that have occurred and will occur so application is submitted we look at it against the udo any adopted plans such as our comprehensive plan our strategic plan for the city then that first true input from the community comes out of that neighborhood meeting and get the minutes. We talk through anything with the applicant that could be adjusted based on that feedback. Then we come to the Planning Commission, hold the public hearing, and the Planning Commission is a recommending body to the City Council. When we get to the City Council step, they evaluate all of the recommendations of the Planning Commission, any feedback from the public, and then take action. Ultimately, that tends to be a decision that night of the meeting, but the city council is the decision-making body on a special use permit. So I'm going to go briefly through the recommendations on this. So staff does recommend approval of SU-26-6 for the Starfish Project Foundation with a few stipulations. The first being that the special use permit would be valid for a period of two years. Typically, we start at five years. We did talk to the applicant about this, of easing in, starting with just two years, and the applicant is amenable with all of these stipulations we have listed. Next would be that the use is as described on the statement of purpose. So activities would align with that statement of purpose you have in your meeting packet. Also no donations, merchandise, equipment, anything would be displayed outside the building. And then that waiver that we talked about for the box truck. Finally, the stipulations that would occur through the final site development plan. These are typical things that you would see following through on landscaping, screening requirements, restriping the parking lot, things like that. So this application is scheduled for the August 18th City Council meeting. So that's when we could expect that it would be heard by the City Council. And so I'm happy to answer any questions at this time. And the applicant this evening is here to respond to questions. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, Ms. Allingsworth. Commissioner, do you have any questions for staff? Commissioner Kemp.

Okay. Thank you, Chair. Kim, thank you for the excellent presentation and for the detail you provide to us. That's very helpful. Could you go back to your approval criteria slide? Thank you. In the addendum there to the right, some land use buildings or structures are not appropriate under all circumstances in a given zoning district, but may be appropriate if adequate precautions are taken to assure compatibility with surrounding uses. And I'm just curious, I want to ask a question relating to that as well as the proposed use should be in harmony with other zonings that might be impacted. I'm just curious to know, what do we do When we make a recommendation and we have satisfied ourselves that this zoning district is appropriate and the precautions have been taken to assure compatibility with the surrounding areas, and I'm speaking specifically to R1. R1, the Briarwood District, is going to be impacted by this, at least they believe they will be. What have we done to say we're satisfied that precautions are going to be taken by the applicant that satisfies us and that this will be in harmony with what we expect to see given the type of use that is going to be planned for that location?

Yeah. So what you referred to that is on text here is verbatim right out of our new deal. And so I wanted to provide that this is the purpose statement for special use permits. So this is the reason why we have special use permits. We start with this and then our code builds off of that purpose. Right. And so really what this is saying that not every land use is always appropriate in every zoning district. So we have a handful of special use permit options that exist in this district. Then you go through and you start doing that golden analysis. It's about 13 questions. You referenced one of them. And so that's where we look at, okay, compatibility with adjacent uses, surrounding zoning districts. And one thing related to the residential district to the south is you look at where the building is placed on the property. Sometimes we're looking at distance, you're looking at buffers, landscaping, any mitigating factors that are physically on the property, right? Then we look at operational type items. And so we landed on stipulations here, right? So not that it's just allowed on the property with no conditions. We're saying allow it on the property under the following conditions. One key one is that two-year time period. We can always check in on a special use permit. That's something we do. We go inspect after those improvements are made on the property. We can always take phone calls, right? Get feedback. But that two-year period is critical because it would restart the entire process. we go through another public hearing, another public notice. And so we were confident that give it that two years and we could check in throughout that time and definitely at that two-year mark.

Okay, thank you. So you feel that the stipulations in place will bring this use in harmony with what we have in an R1 district?

Yeah. And the main thing is we are adjacent to 135th Street, right? And so, you know, it's best, easiest to compare against the commercial that's surrounding it. And then you look at any other factors that you can mitigate for adjacent to a residential neighborhood.

So one of the other things that I noticed in the report as well as in the response from the applicant is that they do have a print shop that they operate. And I noticed that in our report here that this is not classified as a retail location. Does the print shop change that perception at all? I don't know how big this print shop is. And it is a for-profit print shop was indicated. That is true. So how does that impact the conclusion that this is a non-retail location?

Yeah, so we look at the community food personal support as the primary use, right? You can have accessory uses, integral components to that. And so the print shop piece of it is accessory. That is something that's permitted by right in this district. So when you look at that component, they both exist on the property, right? That's allowed by right. This goes through the special use permit process. Okay.

And also the comment was that the truck that they will be using is used minimally, I think is the word that was used there. And I noticed, though, that in the applicant's statement of purpose that they visit all 15 junior highs and high schools on a daily basis. Is that what we're considering to be minimal use of this truck that will be coming and going daily?

Yeah, I can have the applicant expand on that. My understanding is that the truck is used for the larger donations, larger items. Maybe it's from a grocery store that has excess items that they're donating, not primarily the school district trips.

Okay, so we don't know if they're using this bigger delivery truck to go around and collect at these 15 junior highs and high schools?

I'm not 100% sure specifically, but based on the applicant's clarifying statements and any follow-up we had, it is used for the two to three times per week. So then it could not be for the school district trips.

Okay. All right. And I'll ask the applicant that. Okay. I think that's all I have for now. Thank you, Kim.

Commissioner Sealing?

Thank you for your presentation. It was very helpful. You mentioned in your presentation the police department conducted an analysis or a site survey. Is that available to us?

It's not something that I have within the meeting packet. It's called crime prevention through environmental design. I can double check with the police department if that's information that can be made publicly available. I think because there's certain safety and security aspects to it, it tends to be between that business owner and the police department. But that's something that we could look into. And if there's interest, we can provide it to the city council if it's something we're able to provide.

Have you seen it?

I have not. Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Commissioner Corcoran.

Just a couple of process questions, Ms. Hollingsworth. You mentioned that a funnel development plan may be required, and maybe you said it, but I didn't hear it. Is there going to be a final development plan required?

Yeah, so let me clarify that. I was referring to in the approval criteria, our UDL calls out that it may be required. There might be some scenarios where it wouldn't be necessary on a property. We are requiring it. So as I move to my stipulation list right here, that we're going to review these items A through D as part of a final site development plan.

So really heavy on the landscaping and the perimeter of the property and buffering and that kind of thing.

Yes.

And the second thing, so it's a two-year window for the special use permit, and what's the process for renewing after that?

Yeah, it is the same process we're doing right now. All the same steps. So it would start with application submittal, neighborhood meeting, public hearing, city council makes the decision.

Great. Thank you.

Commissioner Brown.

Charlie, I have a couple questions for you, if you would. In the numbers you were given just now, you mentioned 40 visitors. I want to make sure there's a clarification on that. As I understand it, that's 40 cars, not visitors, 40 cars per hour, correct?

Yes.

Okay, but it's not 40 visitors, 40 cars per hour.

I believe so, yes.

Okay. Times eight hours is 320 cars a day. Correct? Yes. Okay. Could you pull up your map that you showed about the intersection again there? That one. You mentioned a new right turn lane going westbound, you said. That's a right turn lane for people going north on Brougham.

So if you're traveling on Brougham, say you're going north, there's going to be right there where that red arrow is shown. If you make that right turn, you will then be traveling eastbound on 135th Street. If you're out on 135th Street and you're traveling westbound, there'll be a new right turn lane that then goes north on to Brougham where that red arrow is. And so what that's going to do is then at that intersection, kind of per what we try to do at all of our intersections with arterials, is there'll be right turn lanes. That whole intersection will have right turn lanes.

See, I don't understand what relevance that right turn lane that sends you north on Brougham has to do with this at all.

doesn't have so the improvements on that the city is doing on that that trans that cip project is irrelevant of anything that has to do with what this project is just they're overlapping the city's doing that project regardless we've had that in our plans to do and that project's actually under construction now so that northbound right turn lane is not being built because of this proposed development It's really just saying that there are upcoming proposed improvements that are going to be taking place at that intersection. And anytime we're doing those types of improvements, we want to let you all know that there's upcoming new things are coming. So that that intersection has been operational for a number of years as it is. And there's actually some additional turn lane movements that are going to be built and constructed there. so that we anticipate that those, that intersection should actually have a little bit better operation in the next coming years.

Yeah, but that northbound turn is really irrelevant to this, right?

Correct.

I think that's what you said.

Yes, nobody that's making that right turn lane is going to make it, I mean, yes.

Thank you.

Commissioner Taronis.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is it appropriate to ask questions of the applicant or later?

Yes, she's available.

I have a couple of questions for the applicant.

Just go ahead and, you know, give your name for the record for those who haven't met you.

I'm Donnie Moreland.

Okay. Thank you. The question that I have, I have a couple of questions, is I noticed in some of the literature that was provided to us there was a board of directors. My question is, does your board of directors require an action plan? And by that I mean if an operation such as yours would have an action plan so staff would know, volunteers would know what measures to take in the event of an emergency.

We do, and we actually are in the process of going. Each time we go to a new building, we have to go through another set of those.

So that's available, that action plan to the volunteers?

Yes.

Okay. The other question I have, since you have that action plan, you are aware of some of the issues potentially. What preventive steps were taken to address any problems that came up that the action plan required you to take.

So specifically, I'm trying to hear the question.

For example, trash.

Oh, yes.

I'm assuming your action plan addressed trash. What preventive measures were taken to address that?

Yeah, so we actually walked the perimeters. Like now, when I'm in the office and out of the building, I check for trash every day. Like I walk around the building. So we'll be doing that. We'll also be looking for is there any people that are on the premises that shouldn't be on the premises.

Okay. Thank you. And my last question has to do with signage. I read in the documentation there was going to be a sign about illegal dumping and donations outside of hours of operation. Correct. Have you decided where those signs are going to be posted?

So we for sure will have them on the door, and they'll also work with the planners to see where does that need to go and how do they feel that needs to be posted.

Okay. Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Commissioner Brown?

Charlie, I have another question for you, if you would.

Charlie, I have another question for you, if you would, please. Could you pull up the slide? It was a chart of fast food, for example. Yes. So I guess that answers my question about trips per hour there. I was wondering if that was per day or per hour.

Yeah, that's not day. Yep.

Thank you.

Commissioner Seelig?

Also a question for you, Charlie. Back on the intersection there. Is there a right turn lane currently eastbound 135th going south on Broome?

So once this is all built up, there will be a right turn lane for all the movements at that intersection.

Okay, currently there is not.

I'll further point out, so Keith, I know you asked the question, and Charlie Love, Chief Development Engineer, I know you asked the question about that right turn lane that goes north. Just realize it doesn't necessarily serve this property, but any improvement like that, you've got to understand right now there's two through lanes that are traveling there that's going westbound. And anytime you can get some of those movements separated, you're going to provide less stacking back through that lane. And anytime you can provide some type of improvement to that, you're going to allow for other operations within that traffic signal and that signal to operate. So you're given green time. Any saving of green time and extra movements are going to be provide some type of benefit to the intersection so that that right turn lane doesn't necessarily turn and go into this site but there's still net benefit in regards to the whole intersection and how it operates so um the construction project for that intersection will include all four corners The only construction that's going to be included are the two red that are building new existing 135th Street if you're traveling eastbound. It's already got a right so that if you were traveling eastbound.

That's what I asked. So 135th does have a right. It has a right there, yes.

And then also if you're coming out of the Coles and you're traveling southbound and you want to go west on 135th, there's a right turn lane there as well.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Commissioner Lynn.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question for Kim. Going back to that, the overview shot of the property, you mentioned the landscaping that's going to be happening on that southeast edge. What about the southwest side? It appears to have an open space. Who maintains that? Is that part of the city?

Are you talking about? Yep. Yeah, that is somewhat city property and somewhat auto zone. So let me go back. to something that has zoning boundary on it. Yeah. So there's portions. See, this is the auto zone. And then all of this area is owned by the city of Olathe.

I guess my question is, is that a natural opening for people to potentially walk from there towards the creek and the trail?

I'm not familiar how you could walk there because the trail is on... I do know the trail that you're supposed to walk on is on the west portion of the creek. Maybe there is potential that someone could wander outside of that, but where the marked trail is is on the west side, and there's not a designated linkage through that area.

So I'm wondering if potential landscaping could help prevent some of that, but that would not be part of this property. It's not on this property, yeah.

But what we were really honing in on, we'll try to find a clean image again, was there actually used to be more landscaping here. When it was built in overtime, there's some trees that die. They don't always get replaced as they should. And so it's really looking at that area. There might be a little bit there too. We looked at that landscape plan that was approved for this property. So that's really what's within the boundary of this property and that they have influence over.

All right. Thank you.

Commissioner Brigitte. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Hollingsworth, I got a couple questions for you. First off, I wanted to thank you and the staff for your work on this and for proposing the two years as opposed to five, just so that there could be some time to see the actual implementations of the site here. Some questions, this is a quick one, but I understand the one waiver is regarding this truck. There has been no concern regarding the appearance of the truck on the property, is that correct?

We have not received any feedback about the truck. I know it's currently parked there potentially at times. And so I haven't received any feedback about it. It's a very standard looking box truck. And they really tried to find, they have this, they already had, but this is the smallest vehicle to serve their needs.

Okay. Could you pull back up that slide you had earlier regarding the, the special use permit and what would be evaluated for them to lose it, if you will, after two years if they weren't complying with it.

So you're talking about this slide? Or the stipulations?

The stipulations.

Yeah, that's mainly what we would evaluate is the property or the functions happening in line with these stipulations as well as our overall UDO and municipal code.

Okay. There seemed to be a discussion at the meeting regarding the board of Starfish and their contract and if there was an increase in loitering, panhandling. et cetera, that they might break the lease. If there was an instance where there was an increase of panhandling or crime in the neighborhood, has there ever been an instance where a special use permit would get pulled for something like that?

I'm not aware of any historical instances where that has happened in the city. There would have to be true compelling evidence that relates the two things. But I'm not familiar with anything that happened with the board and that's not in the purview of us looking at the special use permit.

Okay. So would it be within or outside of our scope to add language that if there was a verifiable increase in loitering, trash, panhandling, or crime, the special use permit would be revoked?

something that we could look at, but really those items are covered by our municipal code already. So the special use permit, but municipal code or state law, right? Depending on what the item is. And so that's already covered. So I don't feel the need to add it because all of this, any action on the property still has to comply UDL municipal code and these stipulations.

Well, we could theoretically add it.

You could recommend something for the city council to look at. Yes.

Okay. And then I was looking for some clarification on the number of individuals, so maybe this might be a question for Mr. Love or Mr. Belcher. Maybe you could answer this. There was two different numbers thrown around in terms of the number of people visiting Starfish per day, and it seems like it's a growing project providing valuable service. So is the actual number 700 to 1,000, or is it 1,400-plus people a day? What is that actual number?

Chair Belcher, Chief Community Development Officer. So when we spoke with Johnny, the 700 to 1,000 is the number of people served, not necessarily the number of people visiting the site. So if somebody comes to the site and collects lunch for, let's say, five members of their family, that counts as five people towards the number of people served. So I might

defer to johnny if i've got that wrong but it's the actual number of people served and sometimes the people visiting the site serve more than just themselves okay so the johnson county post was referring to the total number of people served not necessarily the number of people on site that's correct so the 320 cars per day that's the estimate for the 800 is that is that correct that would be 40 is estimated to be the peak um i think they're

their business is pretty well even throughout the day, but 40 is the peak. So yes, 320 would be the estimated high end of trucks or vehicles per day.

Okay. And then there was a comment in one of the letters regarding the location off of Highway 7 and an increase of homeless encampments in that area. Is there any... anecdotal or quantitative evidence to back that up in any way.

I assume you're talking about Parker and Santa Fe?

The letter I read said off of Highway 7.

It may have been Parker and Santa Fe.

Okay.

I've not received any information on that. I know whenever I spoke with Chief Buttad, it was hard to pinpoint exactly what the activity was associated with in that center. So there was multiple shopping centers in there that they weren't able to make a direct correlation with that.

Okay. And in your conversation with the chief, was there any discussion about a homeless population in residential areas, either walking through it and what law enforcement might do. It seems like if no one's breaking a crime, currently law enforcement will leave the individual alone.

Is that correct? We did not, Chief, and I did not have a conversation about that.

Okay. Thank you.

All right. Commissioner Seeley?

I have some questions for the applicant. Sorry for the musical chairs. Ma'am, you mentioned when Commissioner Taronis was speaking to you, an action plan. What are the components of that action plan?

So that would be like if there was any kind of emergency or how would, you know, we had a situation, if that would be how that would be handled, who needs to be called, what would we need to do?

And how many volunteers do you normally have on site every day?

They, I mean, they come in for a couple, sometimes just an hour, a couple hours. So maybe, I don't know, rotate maybe 60 through.

And how often do you review this action plan with your volunteers?

We need to do at least quarterly.

When you were speaking with Commissioner Tarones, you mentioned that one of the items in the action plan was trash removal, and you basically just said you walk around the building. Is that correct? Time-specific? Is there a certain number of times you walk around the building? Is somebody designated to walk around the building? I mean, specific to trash?

I'm the only one in the building now, so in the mornings I always check it for trash, and then when I leave it, not.

What do you anticipate if the building's operational for trash?

So we'll do it multiple times during the day, yep. And same way with the parking lot, we'll have trash cans outside. And as our volunteers come in, and even at the last location, they were asked, hey, when you come in, when you go out, you always check, and if you have something, you just pick it up.

And so the information that I have is just reading through the information city staff gave us, the emails that were presented, information from you. It sounds like there were significant problems at your last location with some of your neighbors. What lessons have you learned from that experience that you'll be bringing to this new location?

Well, the biggest one was the parking. So anytime we were addressed with that, like we even had the signs. We had an Eagle Scout come in and make signs. We wanted to be part of the community. So if there was an issue, we wanted to be part of the solution.

When I reviewed the information, it was significantly more than parking. There was vagrancy. There was loitering. There was panhandling. Is there any plan to handle any of that in the future location?

We didn't have issues with that. I mean, there was homeless there when we already got there, so I know it's been stated that we brought that, and we didn't. They were already there. But again, any time we had an issue, say if it was trash, if it was somebody that was, for instance, we had people standing outside in the mornings, and we go, you can't do that. We even changed that you can't even come, so you can't be sitting in the parking lot because that was an issue. So we addressed that. So when we were addressed, you know, stuff like that was brought up, then we would address it.

At the neighborhood meeting that you held, it was asked who owned the building, and you mentioned it was an LLC that you didn't know the name of. When you were pressed on that issue, it was finally determined it's a sponsor of your organization that owns the building. Why did you not reveal that information initially up front?

He wanted to know who owned the building. I was trying to remember the name of the LLC. I could not remember the name of the LLC to save my life. So then finally, I was like, well, who runs the LLC? And that's Mitzi.

Would you think it's relevant that a sponsor of your organization owns the building and that the neighbors would want to know that?

My impression, that's what a sponsor does. They help you get the things you need, whether it be funding, if it's a building, if it's a box truck, that type of thing. So that's what a sponsor does.

Considering that the owner of the building is one of your sponsors, what measures are put in place for accountability should issues arise at the location?

If she's notifying nurse issues, we need to get them addressed. I mean, she can kick us out just like anybody else could.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Commissioner Brown?

Kim, could you please again? Let's go back to the truck issue again, if we can. Okay. In your presentation, and I, and even someplace in the papers, it says what the truck, the truck goes out two or three times a week, is it? And, you know, for pickups and whatever it is, right?

Yes, that's the information that's been provided by the- Yeah, someplace in the papers.

I forget where it was. I tried to copy it before I came here. I wasn't able to do it. It said that that truck, makes 90% is all of the truck traffic that's to this facility. What's the other 10%?

I'm not familiar with where that's located. Do you remember what document that was referenced on?

Not off the top of my head, no.

Okay. It's something we can look into ahead of the city council meeting to talk to the applicant about that. But my understanding, and we always ask clarifying questions. Sometimes we get information, we keep clarifying, keep clarifying. And that's why we have the stipulation that marks when, right, the type of truck. And we've provided in our presentation our expectation is that that's two to three pickups per week. There are other pickups that occur off the property using passenger vehicles. That is a question I did get from a resident. And so there could be volunteers that are going in passenger vehicles, let's say on a Saturday, and picking up some items. But that's permitted on this property if it were approved.

Well, sure. But the way it's implied, wherever it is in here, is that's another truck rather than a bus coming in to pick people up.

We'll look into that and see if we need to provide any clarifying information to the City Council.

Secondly, the print shop. Commissioner Chapman asked you about the print shop. You kind of implied, well, it's a small part of what they do there. What's the quantitative measure that you use for that? Is it 10%, 20%? There's got to be a quantitative measure that you put on that.

So there's many businesses across Olathe, right, that have a main component. Let's say it's a pharmacy, right? A main component they do is selling retail products. They also print things. You know, they have a print shop of sorts. Exactly. And so it's really going to be dependent on the scale of each thing. And you look at, is this truly feel ancillary? The word ancillary is important that it's subservient to the overall primaries of the property, which would be community food and personal support services. And so the way it was described aligned with our definition of an accessory use. It's not a number. It's a little qualitative, right, that you're looking at. Ancillary means it's lesser than. It's a small portion on the property, and there's not a good way to put a number because every different business could have a different scale.

That just sounds real subjective to me. Is it?

I'm just defining what our process looks like, that we look at primary uses, accessory uses. We have definitions in our code that we reveal and make a determination on. Thank you.

Commissioner Chapman. I have some questions for the applicant. And by the way, thank you for being here tonight. And any questions that I have, no reflection on Starfish. What you do is tremendous work. And I applaud you for that. So maybe you can help clear up a few questions we have up here. Okay. The print shop.

Mm-hmm.

What is it? How often does it operate? And how much revenue do you generate from this print shop?

So it's like a very, maybe 5% of what is done in the building. It's actually operated in one room. So it has to be standalone because you cannot mix for-profit and non-profit. So it's got its own space. It's got its own books. It's got everything. The goal of that was to produce income that could turn around and be donated back to the non-profit. We've had to move so many times that it's actually hurt the business. All it's done is lost money.

Okay. And you do accept people, clients from the library when their printing operations are suspended, I believe. If they come over, you can try to satisfy their printing needs.

Correct. We've had several. Actually, the library has sent several people to us.

Okay. So as far as you're concerned, it's a money-losing operation.

At this point, our goal is to actually make it income generating so, again, it can donate back to the nonprofit for sustainability. So, like, grants, individuals, businesses, they donate to the nonprofit. We're trying to make it into a funding mechanism.

And does it operate five days a week, nine to five as well? Okay. Then regarding the truck, the pickup, the 16-foot van you have, I drove by yesterday and I saw that the van is parked down by the dock. Correct. I believe it's in your statement that it goes to all 15 junior highs and high schools.

It does not. Passenger cars go to the junior highs and high schools, goes to the grocery stores, goes to all that. Our truck actually goes out to the warehouses and the distribution centers, so that's why it's palletized stuff versus just smaller stuff we actually send cars to go pick up.

Okay, so they do not travel to the junior highs and high schools. The truck does not. No. Okay, and are they able to get all of the pickups and the deliveries done at this location by 5 p.m.?

Yes. they are so then we have and that's why we shared with them on Saturdays and Sundays we have volunteers that go to grocery stores they pick it up they bring it back they count it and then they get it ready for Monday we're not open on Saturdays and Sundays except for the second Saturday okay and since since I saw that the truck was parked there yesterday am I correct in assuming that there are no operations of any type taking place at this location currently We are setting up. So they told me we could office out of there. So I'm just doing office work. I'm doing the print job out of there. And then we have volunteers that are coming in and moving stuff around, like all of our stuff, because we just dumped it there.

And your donations that you are, I assume you are still receiving donations.

At the 119th Street.

At the 119th Street. And that's just donations only? Are you doing any distribution out of 119th Street?

Everything we're doing is out of there. So it's the donations in and the donations out is all at 119th Street.

And did that require a special use permit?

It did not.

Okay. And then the issue of loitering, it's been raised by other commissioners here. At your last building, you did receive complaints of loitering. I think you said it was brown bag people that you referred to that were causing the problems?

I don't know that it's so much as causing problems, but like I said, they were having issues with the parking or when they would have something. It was usually Steve that would let us know that there was something. And again, it was usually the parking.

Did you ever have to call the police when you had issues with homeless or loitering there at your prior location out on West Santa Fe?

I do not believe we did. We did have an incident where they had went into the liquor store and then they came and they were running from the police and came in our place.

Okay. And you say in your statement that you do not allow any deliveries after 5 p.m. or overnight. How do you prevent that? Is there someone there monitoring the location that would prevent? In other words, someone decides a good Samaritan wants to drop off several bags there, but they do it after hours. How do you monitor that and how do you prevent that from happening?

So we are putting cameras in at night so it'll go around all of the doors. It'll also do parking as well. They will be turned in for illegal dumping.

And what do you do? How do you correct that problem that night? Do you correct it that evening? Does someone come out? Or do you wait until the following morning before you address those issues?

It would be the following morning before we'd know. If somebody came out, then we can pull the cameras.

Okay, so you pull the cameras in the morning to see what happened overnight. Is that what you do? Okay, so they're really not monitored. They're simply just reviewed each morning. Correct.

Okay.

Let me see if I have any questions. Oh, I'm just curious. Geographically, Your clients that you serve on a regular basis, what part of the city do they generally come from?

They're all over the city, and actually we have several that come from. There's a senior center that's on the other side of the library. We have several of those. We actually have families that we serve that are in the Briarwood. We have them. We have families that are going to Tomahawk. We provided several coats to kiddos in Tomahawk. There are pockets all around Olathe that get services from us.

Okay. All right. Thank you very much.

Commissioner Lynn.

I have a question for the applicant as well before you sit down. But thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah. At your current location, how much foot traffic do you receive? You have 40, you're anticipating 40 vehicles per day at peak during each hour. Per hour. Per hour. What about foot traffic? What do you receive currently and what do you anticipate seeing at this location?

Um, I think it's going to pretty, it's like the temporary location now, so they had a really high day last week, and she's got the numbers, I don't, had a really high day, but we're also sharing the parking lot with Olive Garden, and then we're in a strip mall there, and we've actually went to Olive Garden and the neighbors and said, hey, we apologize for our closet, and they're like, we didn't even know you were here. So this is the kind of traffic, but it's also in, Like with Olive Garden, and I thought for sure, you know, having what we did with Olive Garden since we had it with Brown Bag. And like I said, we haven't had any issues with them.

Do you anticipate people just walking up, though? People arriving not in cars? Do you anticipate people just... It's a very, very small percent.

On a daily basis? Yeah. Okay. At the Santa Fe location, it was 5% or less.

What does that translate to, number of people? I don't know. Sorry, like on a given day.

It was just because maybe six. Okay. Six or eight would actually walk up. Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Brown.

Kim, if you would again, please. Hi, Kim. Hi. It's fun, isn't it? I have a couple more questions here. One is the history of the property. Okay. In the not-too-distant past, Goodwill wanted to move into that same location. They were denied by the city because of their proximity then to Savers, which is on the other side of the creek. Now, that was supposed to have been because Goodwill generates income and it's a retail business, okay, right? And that wasn't allowed within so many feet of Savers, correct?

So I'm going to change my answer a little bit just to clarify for everyone. The community food and personal support services land use is not a distance-restricted business. The city of Olathe does have a small list of business types that are considered distance-restricted. Goodwill did fall into that list. This land use is not listed in that part of the municipal code.

Okay, the reason I ask is, back to the print shop so many of us asked about, that generates an income. So we don't know as a percentage how much of it is, but wouldn't that make that a kind of a retail business?

No, the print shop is irrelevant because it's a different land use category that's permitted by right on this property and is not distance restricted. It's a business support services land use listed at UDO 182500, and it's not something in that municipal code list. Thank you.

Commissioner Seelig.

I'm having a little hard time following that. So, okay, the difference, what was different about Goodwill?

It is a land use type that is classified by the city of Olathe as a distance-restricted business. There's a small list of, like, there's probably five, right, that are in that category, and there is a distance requirement that you can't have one located too close to another. This land use is not in that category at all, so it's really irrelevant.

So Goodwill and Savers were considered the same type of business that were restricted from being close to each other?

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, that's something that is more handled at the city council level.

Was that application denied at the city council level or at staff level?

It's administrative, but the city council makes that policy of our municipal code.

So it never even made it past your shop?

Yeah, it wouldn't have gone through any development process because it didn't clear that first step. Thank you.

Commissioners, are there any additional questions for staff? Okay. Thank you, Ms. Hollingsworth. We'll move forward and talk about the logistics of how the public hearing will operate. In accordance with our bylaws, each speaker has a maximum of five minutes. You'll speak from the podium up here. When you come up, you state your name and address for the record, and the timer is easily spotted in front of you. You've covered everything you want to cover, and you've still got a couple of minutes left. You're not obligated to fill the time. But please do honor it if you get pushed towards the edge of that time expiring. Also, make a note that we are interested in hearing new information. So we've read the letters, we've read the emails, we've heard a lot of comments tonight. We're looking for some new perspectives tonight. That's the purpose of our public hearing. And I did make the comment about making sure that each speaker is treated with respect and some dignity in what they do. Let's talk about what that looks like. There's going to be people standing up here and saying things that other people in the room don't agree with. Imagine that. The person at the podium has the floor. I'm not interested in hearing the gasps and reactions and comments from the audience and disrespecting the person that's speaking. One of the things I want to accomplish tonight is for those two uniformed gentlemen to have a very boring evening. And I'm sure you can help with that as well. Also, keep in mind, as you use your five minutes, this is not a Q&A session. You're not in there to address commissioners or ask any questions of the commissioners. If you would like to say just rhetorically that you have a question that we should look at later, you can mention that, but don't expect an answer. We won't be doing a Q&A with speakers as we come up to the podium. um kind of how it works um commissioner corcoran is going to help me with the process here um for you baseball fans be easy we got somebody up to bat we got somebody on deck we got somebody in the hole um so the speaker will be up there there are two seats over next to the podium uh that are labeled reserved so when um after each speaker we'll update the list um so that you can come up so we can move this in an efficient fashion and have one speaker right after the other also keeping in mind that uh if you're speaking and you've got an idea of what you want to say but you're further down on the list and by the time it gets to you all those things have already been said, it's okay to give up your time. This is not a... tally sheet speaker system. We're not counting the number of people on one side of the issue or the other. That has no relevance whatsoever. We're just looking for facts and considerable subject matter that we see as unique to the process. So that being said, Commissioner Corcoran, why don't you call up our first three, please.

Sure. Mr. Chair, we have a total of 33 individuals that at least at the start of the meeting wish to speak.

Okay.

The first speaker would be David Miller, if you wouldn't mind approaching the podium. Second speaker is Kevin Sellers. And the third speaker is Jennifer Steele.

And as you do come out to your podium, please, as I mentioned before, state your name and address for the record.

Chair, just to clarify for the record, did you open the public hearing, I assume, formally?

Good point. So now, as we'll move forward... I will now open the public hearing. Mr. Miller.

Good evening. Mr. Olathe.com. I support what Joni wants to do with her organization. I think it's great, and I think it's needed somewhere in Olathe. I just don't think it's needed where she wants to put it. I have spoken outspoken on my Facebook page, and she has blocked me and about 10 or 20 of our neighbors. So I don't think that's a very good thing, and I don't agree with that. We can't even see the Starfish Organization's Facebook page anymore because we've been blocked. We have a homeless problem at our library. We've had homeless people camping at the quilting shop all winter. People have set up tents in the... walking trail, which is right behind AutoZone. That's where we enter. When we go to walk on the trail, we enter right behind the AutoZone. That's where we take our shortcut is walk to that trail. We've had people camping there. We've had people living in the library, essentially. I feel it's going to get worse if we have this right here. It scares me and it frightens me. I don't think it's something that belongs in that particular location. We lost Aldi and Hy-Vee because the city refused to give them the remodeling plans. That upsets me more than this. We lost our good grocery stores. I'd give anything to have the Aldi back there. Give me a good Sprouts on the corner. I want Joni to find a good location that works, but at the entrance to the right of our neighborhood is, I can't remember what it's called, but it's like a highway. So you can't put in different lights there. You can't put another light at the auto zone in. So there's one way in and there's one way out. When school traffic is backed up, it's a zoo. It's a nightmare. because of the new procedure since 9-11. They line up. We usually take the back roads to get out of our neighborhood going that way. We can't ignore what's happened at Starfish previous locations. I've talked to their neighbors. I know their neighbors. I'm an active in the Olathe Chamber with both the Morelands. Known them for years. Talked to the people at Brown Sugar and the Pizza Place and the 7-11. They said hundreds of peoples would come in go through the boxes or bags that they were given and they would abandon half of the stuff all through the parking lot and the starfish people would not pick it up. They were responsible for doing it. They also said people would come in and panhandle and ask for free food as well as bother their customers. What's going to happen in a residential neighborhood with a Walking trail behind it and a public library across the street. It's going to be bad. They did tell us at the public meeting that they have a former police officer that will police their parking lot to get the homeless out of there and other people like that. They didn't say they were going to push them to AutoZone's property. They didn't say they were going to push them to my yard. I live across the street from there. They said they would push them off at their property. Thank you for listening.

Next on deck, Aaron Bolton.

Kevin Sellers, 13612 South Locust Street. I respectfully submit opposition to SU 260006 on behalf of the Sellers Family Trust located at that property, which is directly adjacent to the location requested to SUP. My family has resided at the location since 2008. Our property lines are less than 200 feet in distance. Opposition is not to the mission of the applicant or the important services they provide to those in need and to the vulnerable. I believe my wife and I share many mutual values that the Starfish project does with our given professions. This opposition is solely with the SUP for the proposed location, not opposition to Starfish using location as admin offices, leadership training, and other such uses in which the property is currently zoned, simply opposition to the SUP. Brief phone conversation with someone on the planning division at city planning office on June 26. The individual from planning had no current knowledge of comparable storefront operations of this type located in similar proximity to established residential neighborhoods. There was conversation that charitable organizations may operate from churches or other facilities throughout the city, yet those locations are not primary public-facing businesses that use these services contemplated by the SUP. This public hearing is not to determine if Starfish is an amazing organization to serve the needs of the community, but rather compatible with the surrounding properties and established residential neighborhoods. The SUP would bring a much different operational profile than previous tenants and surrounding current businesses that are currently there. Starfish has anticipated over 40 vehicle trips per hour during those busy periods, and most of those visitors come for services rather than shop. That's a legitimate compatibility question for the neighborhood commercial site. A point to emphasize is the admirable job Joni has done in growing starfish, but knowing those impacts of future growth, is the council going to handle that starfish growing not only in size but also services over the years have contributed to operational impacts at previous locations and ultimately led them to seek larger facilities i'm requesting the planning commission to look at how they function today with their growth in relation to years past and if this growth that this growing operation can remain compatible with the surrounding neighborhood and current business zoning already established The website even boasts of services of potluck food distribution on Saturday showing acute time frames of greater traffic that falls more in line with the definition of assembly type occupancy as classified in the ICC. This type of operation brings an elevated intensity of usage and compatibility doubts on this particular site of accommodating growing operations yet remaining compatible with surrounding neighborhoods. Several land use concerns. Support opposition to this current status. Public gain to be had by allowing the operation centrally, not on the eastern border of the Olathe community, proposed location to move starfish to those outskirts and even further away from the Parkview Manor and the city's collaboration efforts and opportunities for long-term care and support from that operation that is also desired in the comprehensive plan. Page 61 of Elevate Olathe Comprehensive Studies shows daily traffic over 10,000 cars on the street for the property. This is only going to increase that, which is already defined by the AADT as a major collector. Does not conform with the current I-35 Santa Fe Corridor Comprehensive Plan of Enhancing Safety, Mobility, and Congestion. This only adds to that traffic to the region. The city's Comprehensive Plan of crashes from 2019 to 2023 presented brome and Santa Fe as already a concern on page 58. The city's comprehensive plan for dislocation zone for commercial use would totally take that out in their comprehensive plan. Note, Starfish has acknowledged experience in operational challenges and neighborhood concerns at the previous location. Regardless who is at fault, this history makes it reasonable for the request for the Planning Division to proceed cautiously and ensure similar issues don't occur right next to residential zoning. What Starfish is requesting in the SUP would be better suited in an area with better access, larger site, and more accessibility for the general public rather than neighborhoods. With the proposed two-year SUP, my question for the planning would be, where's the accountability between approval, occupancy, and the two-year expiration? City inspections, check-in from planning, division to report back to the commission. How is handling the formal complaints going to arise? The two-year time frame is appreciated, but during a community forum on July 6th, when residents highlighted potential concerns, Joni even said many of those answers need to be talked to by the city or by the police department. Those were deferred to other people, not her. There's already pallets currently stored on Northwest Corner. All to say, this is a great organization. I do not feel that it's appropriate for there. And last thing to say, Ms. Lynn, yes, there are already people sleeping in tents in the backyard of my neighborhood. And that has nothing to do with starvation. That has nothing to do there. That's just a potential.

Next on deck, Richard Cahill.

Okay.

Hello, members of the Olathe Planning Commission. My name is Jenny Steele. I reside at 13950 South Brougham Drive in the Briarwood neighborhood. I thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. I am here to share concerns regarding the proposed special use permit that would allow the Starfish organization to operate a supply distribution location in our residential area. First, I want to express my genuine gratitude for the work Starfish does in Olathe. Many in Briarwood support their mission, and we acknowledge the value of their service to neighbors experiencing housing insecurity and lacking basic needs. Several of our neighbors have volunteered. However, good services must be paired with appropriate land use planning. According to the city's own developed maps and demographic data, identifying focus areas for lower income assistance, 135th and Brohm is not identified as a high-need zone. There are no longer any Title I schools in this immediate vicinity. From a city planning perspective, placing a high-traffic distribution resource outside of designated service corridors creates unnecessary logistical challenges and fails to serve clients efficiently. Furthermore, Firewood is an established single-family residential neighborhood. While mature neighborhoods naturally face aging infrastructure, stability is key to preserving them. Introducing an active non-residential supply distribution hub directly into a residential area undermines neighborhood stability and risks accelerating property value decline. My family is deeply committed to the City of Olathe. We want to remain here. We want our tax dollars to support Olathe's growth, to support the Olathe schools, and our neighborhood's future. But allowing a commercial-scale service operation in a single-family residential pocket is inconsistent with sound zoning and comprehensive planning. I ask that you do not recommend the special use permit for the Briarwood location and instead encourage the placement of this facility in a commercially zoned corridor adjacent to an identified high need focus area better suited for high density public access. I offered this statement at last week's city council meeting as well. Thank you very much for your time and your service to our city. Thanks, Jenny.

Next on deck, Caleb Bauer.

Hello. Sorry. I think we all take a deep breath. I got to take a deep breath here. This is emotionally draining for a lot of people because we really care about things. My name is Erin Unselbolton. I live at adjacent right directly behind the Starfish location. As you exit onto Brougham, if you turn right, I am the first house. I would like to address four issues that I don't believe have been fully covered tonight from my perspective. First, I know we've talked a lot about traffic and public safety, but most of the discussion I heard was about current traffic and indicating the 40 cars per hour. But I don't think we've talked about and addressed where the traffic is going to go in our neighborhood. We don't have a map showing that a lot of traffic, when you turn right, goes straight down Frome Drive to reach 139th Street. And then people go across those streets east-west, and it passes directly past our elementary school. Okay. Many of our residents, including myself, picked our neighborhood to the proximity of our school for the access and safety of our children. So this to us is not just about the number of cars. It's about our children walking to school and our parents dropping them off, picking them up, and our families walking and our children riding our bikes and the neighbors who use our streets every day. Also, as a person who lives in this neighborhood, I have personally witnessed numerous accidents on 135th Street and Brougham, especially when you are on 135th Street and you are turning left to come onto Brougham, which many people would come in in order to access the Brougham entrance into the Starfish Project. Because there are only two entrances into that area, but there's only one exit out of there, which makes the traffic really compact. Another thing is that I know you've heard this, but the starfish specifically picked this location to expand its surfaces, which will increase all the traffic even further, but also that means there will be more donations, more deliveries, more volunteers, more clients and people coming through our neighborhood. And so that we're working about the impact of what that would happen to our neighbors. So we as neighbors want to know, will the hours of your operations be fixed? Once you're granted, are you going to start opening up every Saturday? Will you start taking donations on Sundays? What impact will that have? we also want to know if you take this one's i wasn't sure if you're using the loading dock to have trucks deliver items there so i'm not sure if that is allowable under this special use permit but i personally think it's a great building if it wasn't distributing right behind my home with the huge numbers of anticipated cars because the service is incredibly important and that they do do valuable work in our community And then lastly, I just want to talk about neighborhood safety and our quality of life. This is a personal story to me, but a few years ago, I had a person who was experiencing a mental health crisis wander into my yard. I called the city because I thought maybe there was some kind of non-police response unit to help them. The city was wonderful, but there was not a non-police response unit. The response was the police. The police came, and they also sent a fire truck emergency medical services team. And so I only share this experience to share that that was not what I thought was going to happen as a neighbor. And that it's a fantastic response from our city, but that it utilized a lot of resources that I did not anticipate or expect. And so as neighbors, I don't think it's our responsibility to have to address those kinds of interactions. And we're not trained to do that. So anyway, I wrote a lot of this now, but now I'm just going off script. But the biggest thing too for me is that even though the Starfish is a wonderful organization, they can close their doors, they can go home, but the people that leave their property, they can't control. So we don't know what's going to happen. And they may close their hours for the day, but our neighborhood doesn't close. We're always open. We don't know what's going to happen. And we've worked really hard to have a safe environment welcoming neighborhood and environment where we're proud to live and be part of our community. We want the starfish to operate in Olathe, but we would like for them to seek other commercial locations. The CVS is available. The Chuck E. Cheese is available. There's lots of other commercial locations that they could operate out of. Thank you.

Next on deck, Christy Bomberger.

Ms. Cahill, you're next.

Good evening, and thank you for the opportunity to speak to you tonight. I heard earlier you wanted some new perspectives. Well, let me give you a little history about myself, and that'll give you some new perspectives. I retired about six years ago, much like you guys are probably going to be retiring soon. And I volunteered with Catholic Charities. Catholic Charities has got a group inside called the Bread Runners. What the bread runners do is we go to people like Price Chopper. We go to Hy-Vee. We go to McKeever's Market. We go to several of these grocery stores early in the morning. We pick up donated food. We deliver this food to many food pantries in the Olathe and Johnson County area. And also starfish. I've been doing this now for five to six years. And I've got to tell you, I hear all these stories about vagrants and homeless hanging out. I deliver to this place. I don't see any of that. I think a lot of these are unfounded fears. And I think we all need to step back a little bit. And let an organization that is doing a wonderful service to the city of Olathe continue to do that service. What I would like to see also is I'd like to see one day a month, either one of you or somebody on the council come and volunteer. at starfish and see what they do see the clientele they get i see mothers come in there with three toddlers to get food because some of these families are on the verge of saying should i pay the heat bill this month or should i feed the kids so these are the things that i see and these are the fresh perspectives that i hope you see also And in closing, all I can say is that I hope you folks make an intelligent, correct decision. And thank you.

Mr. Bauer, you're up. Next on deck, Chuck Stout.

My name is Caleb Bauer. I live at 823 North Hamilton Street, just a mile north of here. I have a wife and I have six children. I have four occupations to try to provide for all of us. I work at Shawnee Mission West as a para in the SPED department. I work for Walmart as an independent contractor doing Spark deliveries. I have probably delivered to many of your homes. I have also started political canvassing for a candidate that I neither believe in nor support because it pays $21.50 an hour. I am also trying to get a writing career off the ground. If it were not for Project Starfish, there are weeks when my family might have gone hungry. I have noticed that a lot of you have said, we support their mission, just keep it far away from me. I find that hypocritical, quite frankly. I have noticed that some of the commissioners up here, some of them have been very intelligent in their questions, and some have seemed quite adversarial to me. Starfish provides clothing, food, hot meals during the school year. On occasion, they have furniture and other home goods. They're a resource of incalculable worth to the people who need them. That includes my family, your neighbors. It has been my observation that many of these concerns are either unfounded or blown out of proportion. As far as parking and traffic goes, I work at a school. Every school has problems with people coming in and out for drop-off and pickup. That is nothing new. Perhaps you should take it up with your school board on how to fix that issue. If you're worried about the parking, this new location has significantly more parking than where they are now, squished in next to the Olive Garden and the Ramen Place. Not only that, they are not sharing this property with at least a dozen other organizations like they did over here at the corner of K7 and 135th. As far as the concern for the homeless goes, I've noticed it said that less than 5% of those who starfish help are actively homeless. In fact, they work to help people avoid homelessness. Perhaps instead of complaining about the number of homeless people, we should instead be volunteering our time at Starfish, or at a soup kitchen, or at a homeless shelter. Instead, we would rather come here and complain and say, take it away from me. It seems to me that this is some sort of poverty ick on the part of some of our neighbors. They treat us as lepers, as pariahs, and we are not. I am just a simple man who is trying to provide for his family, as fuel is stolen from my gas tank for a foreign war that I don't support, and as inflation ravages the wages that I am actually able to make. I have led my family from homelessness to this point, and I intend to keep going. This is not about throwing handouts to common shiftless bums. It is about the friends of your children and your grandchildren having a hot meal at night. By chance, perhaps a cake for an eight-year-old's birthday. It is about a hand up to your neighbors as they struggle just to get by. If this is the sort of thing that is considered a bad fit for parts of Olathe, then perhaps Olathe should examine what kind of community it wants to be. I would ask that the planning recommendation recommends Starfish's permit favorably to the city council and without any undue burdens so that this community jewel may continue helping those in need. Thank you.

Ms. Bomberger, you're up. Mr. Stout, are you present and wanting to speak? You're on deck. And Julia Maggio, you're second on deck.

Okay. My name is Christy Bomberger, and I live at 15850 West Locust Street. I live adjacent to the property right across the street, and the driveway to the Aldi property is pretty much right in my backyard. So I do want to make a point that I don't think has been made here tonight. And I'm kind of really going off my script 100%. First of all, I want to say thank you to Starfish. I think they do great things for our community. I think they fill a hole that we, I mean, a need that we have in our community. And I hope that they will continue doing that. And I hope one day that I can be there to help now that I know more about your business. I think that when they found the Aldi property, it must have been perfect. It had a large parking lot. It had a large building. It probably had coolers in it still from Aldi. I don't know. But it was perfect in every way except one. It wasn't zoned for that. And I was shocked tonight when I read... I had read the notes or the letter that you guys received about the property because all of a sudden I thought they changed the zoning of this. What happened? It's a C1 zoning. And all of a sudden in the description you guys got, it said community commercial. And so we're like, what happened? Well, that was the UDO plan, right? That says the future of it. Well, that changes everything, right? For this, being a neighborhood commercial is very different from being a community commercial. So I think tonight when they talked about how everything works within and if they need a special permit, all of that was based on community commercial. It was not based on C1 zoning. And C1 zoning is low intensity. That phrase to me means a lot because that driveway is right behind me. It's not about the clientele. It's about how busy this property is going to be in my backyard. I would say if everybody in this room could think about it like this. What if your neighbor, across the street from you, had 40 cars in and 40 cars out of their driveway every single hour? That's what it's like at my house. Every single hour. That's what's going to go on in the summer when my grandkids are in the pool. And I know that sounds really privileged. But that's why we bought the home. To enjoy it. And I'm totally off script, so I have, there's a lot of other things that I wanted to say. I want to say that the Aldi that we compared it to, 98 cars an hour. If Aldi had 98 cars an hour, it would still be opened. It did not even have 40. It didn't have anywhere close to 40. That is a misnomer. That's why they closed. We loved Aldi because we could walk over there and there was never more than five customers in there. Usually you had to flag down somebody to ring you up. So we're not talking about a comparative to Aldi or a comparative to Walgreens. This has always been a business that was not very busy. And now 40 cars an hour seems like a lot to me personally. And that's what I'm concerned about. Thank you for your time.

Eric Banks, you're on deck. Second on deck. Mr. Stout, you're up. And DiMaggio, you're on deck.

Thank you, Councilman, for giving me this opportunity. I want to start out by saying Mr. Stout spoke earlier, and I'm his neighbor right next to him. And... So I'll join a lot of what he said. But also Starfish, I think you do wonderful work. I think what you do is great, but not in Briarwood. I am the longest probably resident in Briarwood. My house was the second house in that whole sub-development. I had cornfields. and dirt roads that came down to my house. And I've lived there for, I've seen the whole thing change. I know a lot of people in that neighborhood, and I've seen the changes. And most of them have been great. But I am sorry. I think what you're doing is great, but it should not be. in Briarwood, and I'm afraid of the people they could bring in. We've had homeless in our, like Kevin said, in our backyard. We've had to call the police to get them removed. I also, I don't know how I got on this, but I get on my phone police reports in my neighborhood. And I'll tell you what, it's scary, even though I think Briarwood's great and safe. But I can pull up my phone right now, and there's probably 10 reports of either all the way from battery damage to rape, to whatever. And I'm just afraid that Starfish, even though I know they're great people, probably most of the people that shop there, but we just don't need those kind of people in Browardwood. There's plenty of other places, as far as I'm concerned, to locate starfish. And somebody named that pizza place that's open or that's available. A lot of places. But I just can't see putting it in an area nice as briarwood. And even though they do great work, It's just, to me, not the right locale. And so, and the only other concern I got, and here again, like I said, I've lived there almost 50 years, is the, it's got basically one entrance, one entrance into the place. One entrance in and out. Now, yeah, AutoZone has an entrance over there, but there's no exit. So more and more traffic comes down through Briarwood. And then you exit Starface now. You're going to pack that short runway to get on 135th Street. And I've seen the traffic. And that's the other thing that frightens me about this. So that's about all I got to say. It's just I'm afraid that just what's going to happen as far as people coming in and the traffic. And those are my two biggest concerns. And you do a good job, so I'm not cutting Starfish down. Thank you.

Ms. Maggia, you're at the podium. Mr. Banks, you're first on deck. Are you available and wanting to speak still? Pass?

Just a quick reminder for speakers, please state your name for the record. Thank you.

Bob Daniels, you're on deck. And Valerie Duncan, you're second on deck.

And also just for clarification for our speaker and all the speakers that come up, Every once in a while, especially if you turn to face the audience, we don't always pick up the noise here. Just remember that we're the audience for this tonight. So make sure that let us know what's going on.

Thank you. Good evening. My name is Delia Maggio and me and my husband and I reside in Overland Park and it is right across the street from the Oak Park Mall. My address is 9732 Neiman Place in Overland Park and my back door is the mall. I started volunteering In 2021, and I drive back and forth from Overland Park to Olathe, I do most of my business in Olathe. I was dedicated to a program that I happened to walk in by accident, and they told me what they did and why they did it. Now, not only I am on their team for the past five years, going on six, but my husband also is on my team, and he's a civil servant for the community. For me, giving food out and clothing for a second chance to anybody in the community, it's in my heart, and I can tell you why. In 1983, when me and my husband first married, brand-new gifts. Of course, you get married, you get brand-new gifts. We were house renters. We had no clue what we were doing. We were playing house. I was 17, he was 18. Our frickin' house burnt down. and we had an infant. We walked out of there with what we had on our back. The truck got pulled out of the garage, and that's all that we had. If there was a starfish back there in Texas where we lived, I would have gone to them for help. Now I volunteer, and I am the one who is helping somebody else forward now, and I love that. We have now a compost where we give food a second chance, and if we don't get to give it out, it's going still to the environment. It's not going to a landfill. It's going to an environment. I don't know if you know what composting is, but it works. Again, the traffic, I live right across the street from Macy's. I face Macy's back door. We have two entrances to my condo. I do not hear, I do not get none of that traffic at all into my housing complex. And the whole time I've lived there, there was one time that I know of, there was a shooting inside the mall. It doesn't matter where you live. It does not matter how many years you have lived at your home, back door, front door, to the side, to the west, to the east, to the north, whatever you want to call it. There is going to be something happening. There is already something happening in that neighborhood. Unfortunately, we're not going to bring more to it. We're going to be bringing less to it because these people we're serving, for them to get back up on their feet, and that's what they are coming to us for. Subaru gave us coach for the winner. And again, I was there to volunteer that evening to fit these children into coats. Now, because of Starfish, we had buckets and buckets and buckets of gloves that had been donated, brand new gloves. Then we had beanie caps for these children. We fitted these children for their coats. But afterwards, we told them, now go dig in that bucket for your beanie and your matching gloves. These kids... were ecstatic that their parents were not doing it for them. They were doing it. This brought another joy to my night. These are things behind the scenes that you do not experience unless you are there to witness them. Our clients, a lot of them live on fixed incomes. Their checks are not following today's prices. These are people like me that are fixing to retire. I'm scared to get my retirement check because I won't be able to survive. I am very scared. It's not following the economy prices today. Food insecurity should not exist in our community or our surrounding counties. So tonight I come here to not only support Starfish Project Foundation, but also to support the neighborhood and let them know that crime is at everybody's back door. It doesn't matter anymore. If we don't help these people to get back on their feet, like somebody helped me get back on my feet, I don't know what else to do. Then they are going to be coming to your back doors. And a lock will not help a person's home. It's just to keep an honest man honest. Thank you so much. Good evening.

Bob Daniels, you have the podium. Valerie Duncan, you're on deck, if you wouldn't mind.

Thank you, sir.

Valerie Duncan, you're on deck. Taylor Gilliland, second on deck.

Hi, my name is Valerie Duncan, and my address is 15690 West 138th Street in Briarwood. And I totally support Starfish. It is a great organization, and I think what Briarwood is worried about is not going to exist. No matter whether they were in there or another business was in there, the traffic is going to be there regardless. And also, it's along a bus route so that homeless people are, I'm sorry, people that are down on their luck, they can get there by bus, which would alleviate some of the car problems. On my street, I have, at the end of the street, there is a family that has foster kids. There is police presence there at least twice a week, you know. And that family is providing a great service for those foster kids. Those foster kids have issues. That's why the police are there. And I, as a neighbor, understand that. And I'm very proud of them for taking these hard foster kids. We, as a community, need to help people. And I'm really ashamed of Briarwood Subdivision that they're not looking at helping instead of wanting them to leave. Thank you.

Mr. Gilliland, you have the podium. Lisa Roublet, you're first on deck. Jamie Bilyeu, you're second on deck. I apologize if I mispronounced your name.

My name is Taylor Gilliland. I live at 834 North Woodland Street. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for the opportunity to come speak tonight. I come before you as a member of this community who cares deeply about the kind of city we are continuing to build together. Decisions like this one are not always easy. because they ask us to balance the concerns, perspectives, and priorities of many individuals. But at their heart, they reflect what we value most. I'm here to support the approval of the Starfish Project's special use permit and why I believe this vote is really a question of alignment, whether our actions reflect the principles we've already said that matter, not just in words, but in the decisions that shape everyday life for us as residents here in Olathe. Not too long ago, you was adopted the Olathe 2040 plan, which I spoke of earlier. And then you was also unanimously embraced the Elevate Olathe Comprehensive Plan, which was also spoke of, both which outlined a clear vision for our city's future. Both plans emphasize inclusivity, community connection, responsible redevelopment, and ensuring that people have access to the resources they need to thrive. Starfish Project is a direct reflection of those priorities in action. This is not an untested organization. Since 2014, Starfish has served the community with consistency and purpose. As it is well known, they support thousands of individuals and families each week. In the past two years alone, they have redirected more than $2.6 million worth of food away from landfills each year and into the hands of people that need it. They provide clothing, hygiene products, health services, support families and children. PLUS MUCH MORE, AT NO COST TO THEM. THEY PARTNER WITH MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, LOCAL FIRST RESPONDERS, WORKFORCE PROGRAMS, AND MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AND SERVICES, SUCH AS SCHOOLS JUST LIKE TOM LOCK ELEMENTARY, THAT IS WITHIN THE AFFECTED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, OF WHICH I AM AN ALUMNUS OF. I WENT THERE K THROUGH SIXTH GRADE. AND THAT SCHOOL CURRENTLY HAS A 48% OF THEIR ATTENDEES ARE AT DISADVANTAGE. HAVING ATTENDED The entire of my grade school year is there. They help the students stay in school, assist families in times of hardship, and create opportunities for people across our community to serve one another. And they are, in every sense, a community partner already doing the work your plans have called for. What is being proposed here is not a disruption to a community. That's not what's trying to be done. It is a continuation of the service to that community. Both the Elevate Olathe plan and the Olathe 2040 strategic plan speak to building a city where people are connected, where needs are met with thoughtful solutions, and where growth is guided by both data and compassion. Moments like this are where those plans move from paper to practice. There will always be concerns when change is involved, and those concerns deserve to be heard. But leadership requires looking to the broader picture, considering not only immediate discomfort, but the long-term impact it's going to have on a community, the shared values within it, and the needs of the greater. Starfish Project is not asking you to change the identity of your life. It is helping to fulfill it. I respectfully ask that you approve this special use permit and allow this organization to continue serving our community with dignity, compassion, and purpose. I appreciate your time.

Mr. DJ Reim, you're second on deck.

Good evening. My name is Lisa Rebele, and I'm at 498 East Poplar Street, and this is a personal story. My family of eight first heard of Starfish Project from a Vietnam vet who worked as a cross guard for the school district. He explained to us that its purpose was to help families who need a little extra without going through government-funded programs. Since my husband did not have a hero job, so to speak, we found Starfish was a fit for us, and it was during the COVID when that hit. was a fit for us. We were so impressed with Starfish and the family who day in and day out were there helping everyone. I was homeschooling my youngest, and that's when we went into Starfish because she was born with a very low percent chance of surviving. But she's doing well. She has extreme upper respiratory issues. And so I took her out because we didn't know what COVID was at the time. So we bookended our school day, Monday and Friday, and then we went, you know, at home, obviously, from 8 o'clock to 3 o'clock. And we were very strict on it. I even had her wear a uniform to make sure that we were there and studying. And she has got over 100 hours even this summer at Starfish. And if this was any way a dangerous place, there was no way I would take her there. So it is always giving back to the families. We now have been there for six years, and she is there three days a week with me and helping out. There's a need for this program. Not only do we serve approximately 400 families daily, we assist with food and clothing. We save around $2.5 million. dollars of food from going into the landfill and I do believe someone else spoke about the compost and We recycle everything we are trying to do the best for our community Starfish has many other programs outside of our daily service. For example, we serve the Olathe School District for families with monthly dignity bags and home food assistance. We hand out blessing bags to homeless. We just keep them in our car, and when we're driving around, we hand them out. There's also railing kids. There's the battered women programs that people come in and get stuff, and then they take them to organizations like the mental health and different places who need them. And it's through an IRS program as well. This family who founded Starfish are selfless, kind, and giving. And the founder, Johnny Moreland, is the most positive and kind person I've ever met. Every day she's there saying, how can I help you? How can I give you hope? Thank you for your time.

Carrie Johnson, you're second on deck. Mr. Ryan, you're first on deck.

Hi, my name is Jamie Ballou. I live at 1018 East Chester here. I have a beautiful home. I have a master bedroom. I have all that you all have, right? I mean, really beautiful backyard, everything great. My husband and I, five years ago, got into a major car accident. For reasons why, that's another story. But, you know, it took me a year to recover and to do rehab. Do you know who helped me? And I didn't even know about it. Somebody said the same thing as you all did. Who's starfish? Help me feed my family of eight and my two aging parents that I was also responsible for. I had a great job. But I didn't, you know, also we both lost our, we were both in bed. My dad was up driving us around doing stuff. But if it wasn't for Starfish, I mean, I helped put food on the table. My kids are great. My kids do all volunteer there. They've all helped raise my kids. It's amazing. But you want, the thing that I would really like, I mean, other than that's my short story, right? That I had a need. I no longer have that need for that. I mean, you know, it's great. But you know what the most important client we have? It's the police officers. Because when you tell me that you've got battery in your neighborhoods and all that because they're food starving. And we come back and we fill them with food like you would not believe. If the police officers, if they're fighting over food, the police officers, we don't need to do that. We come and go to Starfish and we help them. If they need clothes, they come to our locations and they get it. And it's the same way if those people that can't afford to buy new school clothing, they come in and get it. And we get nice clothes. I pick up for KC Grow. And they do all this beautiful clothes that people don't want to buy because they have this. And they have kind of a... shoddy hotel shoddy people come in there too and they'll say it you know where casey grove is everybody by target you know over in that area anyway so and i have a van and i pull it in and we i load it up and i pick up from casey grove but you know for the school people are those people that want to you know clothe their kids or feed their kids it's just great but my number one client right now to tell you i'm nervous i'm shaking so i can't go any further but it's the police officers And if you will counter that in, that that's our number one people that we need to respect, also you all included, and I would appreciate if you would think about that. Thank you so much and have a great day.

Mr. Ryan, you're at the podium.

I'm sorry, Mr. Ryan, you're at the podium. Carrie Johnson, you're first on deck. Kate Gray, you're second on deck.

Hi, I'm DJ. I live at 13705 South Sycamore Street in Olathe. I'm a member of the Briarwood neighborhood, and that's where I'm raising my family. Living in Briarwood and raising my kids in this neighborhood has been a dream come true, and I'm incredibly grateful for the community that we have. I want to start with something important. My opposition is not opposition to Starfish or its mission. Many residents who oppose this permit, support the organization, have donated to it, or have volunteered with it. The question before the commission is not whether Starfish does valuable work. The question is whether this particular operation is appropriate at this particular location, immediately adjacent to an established residential neighborhood. One concern is the scale of the operation the commission is being asked to approve. The special use permit staff report uses Starfish's self-reported estimate of approximately 40 vehicles per hour. We recognize that the report also shows that other uses permitted on this property, such as a grocery store or a pharmacy, could generate comparable or even higher peak hour traffic. So the concern is not simply the number 40. The concern is that residents were told that this came from the starfish's current temporary location where only part of its normal services are being offered. Starfish has also experienced rapid growth as it indicated that it expects that growth to continue. That matters because we already have evidence of what can happen as this operation grows. Starfish leadership has publicly acknowledged that growth at a previous location created additional traffic, parking problems, and disruption to neighboring businesses, followed by a notice to relocate. Some supporters have said that they have never personally witnessed problems at previous locations. I can respect that experience. Discussions with previous starfish neighbors have described recurring litter, discarded food and clothing, loitering, people sleeping around the building, use of neighboring businesses' restrooms, and patrons being approached for money or food. Those reports do not mean that the same problems are guaranteed to happen here. But they do mean that these concerns are not hypothetical. I also have concerns about accountability. At the neighborhood meeting, residents learned only after repeated questioning that the property owner is a supporter and sponsor of Starfish. Their relationship is not inherently improper, but it makes strong independent city oversight especially important if problems arise. Finally, the staff report describes the public correspondence as roughly evenly split between support and opposition. I think that the content of those emails matters more than the count alone. Many of the supportive emails focus primarily on the good work Starfish does and the value of its mission. By contrast, many of the opposing emails also express support for Starfish, but then identify specific concerns about this location, including past operational impacts, compatibility with adjacent homes, accountability, traffic, litter, and the scale of the proposed use. There's broad support for this organization. The disagreement is about whether this is the right location for it. Starfish can be a good organization and still be a bad land use decision for this location. I respectfully ask that you deny the special use permit. Thank you.

Gary Johnson, you have the podium. Kate Gray, first on deck. I believe it's Catherine McCoy is second on deck.

Thank you. Good evening. My name is Carrie Johnson, and I live on 151st Terrace, just over two and a half miles from the new Starfish Project location. My husband, who has been in law enforcement for over 20 years serving the Johnson County community, along with myself, have both volunteered and supported Starfish Project for a decade. My husband is also CIT certified, which means that he's very well versed in crisis intervention and detecting those in distress. Before I mention anything else, I just wanted to say thank you to the gentleman in green because I know that had to be very...

Please get closer to the microphone.

I just wanted to say thank you to him even though we are addressing you because I know that had to be difficult to share his personal story about needing help. Full transparency, if I leave after I speak, it is not in a disrespectful manner. It's because I'm in the middle of cancer treatment and I'm trying to hang on past 7 p.m. So whether people are for or against the permit, I want everyone to know that I support your right to speak and it's not in a disrespectful manner that if I leave after I'm done, that's why. I did submit an email, but since then I've seen a number of concerns raised about homeless camps, loitering, property damage, public defecation, children's safety, and increased traffic. I can actually very much appreciate that neighbors have the right to share those concerns, and I don't think anyone here speaking against it is a bad person. I understand that change can be really scary, especially when you aren't familiar with who your new neighbors are going to be. But much like when you live in a house and someone new moves in, you get to know those neighbors because you're all one community. You don't have a choice. You can't kick your neighbors out. They can't kick you out. You have to learn to live cohesively and respectfully together, which I hope is what will happen moving forward. I hope that those in opposition will also consider the experiences of those of us who have been directly involved with Starfish over the years. In the decade that my entire family has been volunteering at the organization at each location they've been at, I have never witnessed people camping, loitering, or causing problems in surrounding neighborhoods. The population that Starfish serves today, in my opinion, is largely made up of hardworking individuals and families who simply need a helping hand to get by. There are so many families that come in with very small children on a regular basis. Starfish has become a valuable resource in our community, providing practical support that enables individuals to keep working, to pay their bills, and to provide for their families. The nonprofit's impact reaches everyone from children, as we've seen here in Olathe in the school district, to senior citizens that live off of minimal income. I do also think that something that's not been mentioned that's important to recognize is that Starfish supports our deaf community members in Olathe significantly. What I wish is that more people can see that Starfish isn't a place filled with neighborhood threats or dangerous people. It's a place filled with volunteers, families, and neighbors helping each other. In fact, one of my favorite volunteers is a little boy who comes in on second Saturday to help serve, and he cannot be more than 10 years old. He volunteers alongside his mom, who wears her young baby on her chest. The point being that this is a family-friendly establishment. Again, my husband has been in law enforcement for over 20 years serving Johnson County, and he involves himself and volunteers right alongside with me, sometimes without me when I'm gone. The gratitude that's shown by those who receive support through Starfish is something that's hard to explain. Imagine being desperate for things like adult diapers. Yes, I said adult diapers. A couple months ago, Starfish received a donation of adult diapers, and I cannot tell you the amount of people that came in and called begging for adult diapers for their family members and people that they care for because they financially cannot purchase those on their own. That's crazy. You would not think that something like that would be a basic necessity that people are not able to afford at that age. It might be a pet food, it might be a health screening, a haircut, or just a meal. And most of us in this room are honestly probably fortunate enough that we've never experienced those circumstances, and I hope we don't. Starfish helps to enable those individuals to be contributing and successful members of society. And although I don't personally have the data, there is a large population of individuals who start out as clients and become volunteers and supporters, which I actually think you've probably heard them tonight. Clients are not a threat to the neighborhood. They want to continue being involved in Starfish. They don't want to jeopardize their support and their support system. I can't even begin to count how many people I have met over the years that have shared with me that Starfish has helped them when they were in need and now they are donors and volunteers. The best way that I can describe it is that it's a cycle of positive impact and everyone that's ever stepped foot in Starfish probably has seen it too. Over the years, Johnny and Tom and everyone else involved in Starfish have built a culture of respect among both volunteers and clients. My hope is that those who oppose this move and the permit will consider approaching it with an open mind and an open heart and maybe take the opportunity to see firsthand the positive impact that Starfish has had and will continue to have among our community. As I sat here tonight, thank you.

Ms. Gray, you have the podium. Ms. McCoy, you're first on deck. And Kelly Patterson, you're second on deck.

My name is Kate Gray. I live at 13631 Sycamore. First of all, I would like to acknowledge that Olathe is fortunate to have starfish in our city because they do help so many people. And I would guess everybody in this room acknowledges that Starfish is a wonderful organization. And it does help so many people. It's the location that I have some reservations about. And to my knowledge, I believe a Starfish board member purchased the building and is going to lease it to Starfish. But they don't have or they didn't get the correct permit. And I think that's why we're here. The west side of Briarwood Subdivision backs up to the wooded Indian Creek Trail. We already have homeless people sheltering in those woods. they're there. I have been told that Starfish offers free meals and food Monday through Friday. Unlike the Olathe Food Pantry where I volunteer, Starfish doesn't vet their customers so they can return day after day. I am concerned that Starfish located near the Ending Creek Trail will be a magnet and draw more homeless people to those woods. If someone is homeless and they know where a free food source is, I think they'd be likely to camp near that food source. Starfish says that 5% of their customers are walkers, which I'm assuming means or includes homeless. But if a food pantry opens up at 103rd and Brougham and the Indian Creek Trail is next door, I would think that starfish will see an increased number of walkers or homeless customers. I attended the neighborhood meeting that Starfish hosted. There was a former policeman representing Starfish who urged citizens to call the police if they had any concerns regarding suspicious-looking people. but he then contradicted himself when he explained that the police have to be there when a person disobeys the law. Otherwise, there is little the police can do. This correlates to what my husband and I learned when we attended the Olathe Citizens Police Academy. We were told that the police are not inclined to respond to a suspicious person who is not engaged in a criminal activity. In addition, we learned that the police that ride bicycles to monitor the trails are often called away to more pressing duties. So a police response to anything other than an overt crime can be very unlikely. During the neighborhood meeting, Starfish said that they will install security cameras to the brick building and post no loitering signs. This suggests to me that Starfish knows from their previous locations that there is a problem with loiterers and need to surveil their property. It was also brought up that when Starfish was at their last location, volunteers walked around the parking lot dispersing loiterers. These reports that Starfish shared with us at the neighborhood meeting doesn't alleviate my concern that similar circumstances could occur at the new location. Finally, I want to bring up the topic of children in the neighborhood. Tomahawk School is within an easy walk from 135th and Brougham. Briarwood is mainly a subdivision for families. Children walk to and from school, ride their bikes or scooters down the sidewalks. Because Starfish is past history, I believe there will be a certain amount of loitering wherever Starfish lands. These days, parents and school officials are on high alert for anyone who might try to approach, lure, or harm children. I believe that Starfish wants to be a good neighbor, and they have expressed their desire to keep loiterers off their property. The question becomes, where will the loiterers or homeless go after they leave the parking lot? and what surrounds the parking lot, a neighborhood, and the woods. Driving around Olathe, I see plenty of vacant buildings that don't have a homeless encampment next door or a preschool or a elementary school, and my time is over. But thank you.

Ms. McCoy, you have the podium. Kelly Patterson. You're first on deck. Deborah Thorne, you're second on deck.

Hi, I'm Kathy. I'm a little slow. I just had my new knee put in. I am a volunteer at Starfish. I love these people. I love what we do. I also represent a different segment of population that is a neighbor to Starfish. I live at Creekside Gardens. There are approximately 200 of us older folks living there. Now, it is 55 and over, and I understand that. That's people that are able to go and come and still work and do what they need to do. But there is a great segment of people there that are in wheelchairs. There are a great segment of people there that are overweight. 80, 90, really struggling not only to survive financially or to survive just in this world and still be able to live like as normal a people as we can as older people, but Starfish offers so many opportunities. We are north on Brom across from the library. My friends at Starfish have, I know I'm the lady you're going to see delivering groceries three days a week. Bob, who just walked out, is a veteran who comes in to get food, goes home and cooks it after being a school guard. and feeds his neighbors. You see teachers. I work the front desk. Terry works the front desk. We meet people that are teachers that come in on a regular basis And they have little food sacks where in their desk drawers they store away snacks from starfish so that their children that don't have a lunch, don't have breakfast before they come, aren't hungry. Starfish has provided the people where I live, we have a free table and I bring in every three days a week until the knee thing happened. And I fill that table with vegetables and groceries and snacks, things that they don't have the extra income and money to necessarily buy. There's something else, and it's very personal to me. I lost my husband three years ago so suddenly, and I moved here. And I'd always volunteered, and the first thing I looked for is, if I'm going to survive this, I have to find friends, not just family. Well, I went to Starfish. They put me right to work, and I was at the front desk doing my thing, and it healed me. My friends over at Creekside Gardens are also looking forward to volunteer opportunities that they haven't been able to do because we were always too far away. They're going to be immediately across the street where most of them can drive or even take their walkers or wheelchairs and walk over. They can get groceries. They can get nice clothes. It's like the library. It's a wonderful place to just go when you've been in your apartment all day and would like to go somewhere. And I know from firsthand the people that come into Starfish are wonderful friends. The homeless people that come in are wonderful friends. So I suggest from our new neighbors that come over and volunteer with us. Get to know those people that are coming into your neighborhood. Help them out if you can. But let's welcome them. Let's be welcoming. That's what we're supposed to do here. Thank you all so much for your time.

Ms. Patterson, you have the podium. Deborah Thorne, you're first on deck. And Ann Karcharski, you're second on deck.

Good evening. My name is Kelly Patterson, and I was introduced to Starfish years ago when Joyce, who was Johnny's mom, supported our foster family. with extra food, clothing, and hygiene supplies. These supplies gave my foster kids dignity, the ability to go to school looking like everyone else, smelling like everyone else, and being fed like everyone else. We are foster parents for 18 years and had over 200 kids come through. And Starfish loved each one of them. And in fact, many of our foster kids, who did have run-ins sometimes with the police, served there. And we saw changes in them. We saw a place where they connected and where they wanted to be. Since those days, my husband became very sick during COVID. He is now on total disability with me taking care of him. We went from executive pay check of his and me receiving a children's pastor pay to disability only. Quite a shock. We also went down in our house size. I forgot to say where we live, 617 West Little Street in Olathe. And there we found our ranch and we're close to where Starfish was last. I also now volunteer as the volunteer coordinator. And so I get to see many, many people that come through our doors. Many of them are now connected to the community and giving meaningful opportunities. Some opportunities are fulfilling requests from public school officials for kids who need extra support, such as personal hygiene, weekend food, and many of the teachers call and ask for things that they need that cannot get. I also help with sending supplies to Olathe area nursing homes, providing prizes for fun activities for our seniors and supplying needs that they have. We have many corporations also that sign up to do service with us. Garmin, all those top tier ones that support Starfish and make sure that we are running well. Garmin vets their places very well and makes sure that we are doing what we're supposed to. Olathe schools have also become very involved in sending their students to volunteer. We've seen great success with these students, and many of them have come up to me on the side and said, hey, you guys gave me that stuff that I needed. Thank you. It also gives them a chance to learn about their neighbors. I am very grateful for all the support given by Starfish to my family and community. It is interesting to me meeting neighbors and how many of them live right around us. I am surprised that out of all the neighbors I have, I know five of them in my little area that use Starfish. They're not vagrants that live on, you know, without homes. They are people just like us, but they're living paycheck to paycheck. I hope that you can give us our special use permit, and I look forward to providing and proving that we are a good neighborhood.

Thank you. I'm going to interject just a moment before we go through. We're about two-thirds of the way through and we'll have discussion following that as well. So I'm going to grab a 10-minute break right now if you can stretch your legs. Commissioner, if you need to use the restroom, take advantage of that. Then we'll re-adjourn.

Victor.

I believe we left off with Deborah Thorne at the podium. Ann Kucharski, first on deck. And I apologize, Shannon Ruski. Thank you. Then that would move on to Mike Oliver, second on deck.

Thank you, tonight. I can only imagine how how frustrating it can be for a commission like yours to have so many passionate people talking on both sides.

I'm sorry, please state your name and address for the record.

Yes, I'm sorry. My name is Deborah Thorne. I live at 10551 South Glenview Lane. And I have been a part of procedures like this before. I live in a neighborhood that recently underwent the change at the entrance of our neighborhood of an apartment complex. And you remember how passionate those conversations were and how long those nights went as we were talking about what the neighbors wanted in the neighborhood. But what we really had to decide at the end was what was right for the city, for the community, for everyone. And the decision was made that this apartment complex of 350 apartments were going into the entrance there. It wasn't about the traffic because that was studied and looked at. It wasn't about the number of people moving into a consolidated area. It was about we lived in a neighborhood and didn't want it. and a developer bought some land and needed to build it. The right thing for the city became the decision. The right thing for our community is for Starfish to have a place to serve the community that's available, the people that need what they do. And what's tough about the neighborhood part, and those are legitimate concerns, and I have tremendous compassion for them as they're looking at a change coming to their neighborhood. However, there's already commercial there at the corner right before you drive into that area. If I drive, I immediately turn right, and I am right in the parking lot of where the Starfish Foundation will be. I'm not driving through the neighborhood. I'm not driving past the schools. I'm not talking to little children along the way that are playing in the area. I am coming to receive services for a need. And I think it's important to remember that we are all just one job loss away from needing the starfish people. We are all people who should be caring for one another. And if we had more caring and we had more giving and we had more kindness, and I know those are platitudes, but if we actually lived out those thoughts and processes, then we could actually serve the community and the needs of the people in the community. And that's what Starfish does every day. I met with Johnny as I'm the president of a club, and we were looking for a charity. And I met with Johnny, and we were interviewing them to see if they were worthy, if you will, of what we were going to give to them, what we were going to do, and we were looking for the right charity for our group. And as I'm speaking with her about what was very important about what we were going to give to them, One of their volunteers that was all part of this meeting had a little boy walk up to her with a book. And she sat down on the floor in the middle of our meeting and read to this child. And my business side said, that's not very professional. But I forgot it was the need they were serving. And that little boy, she reads to him. Anytime he comes in, he brings a book, and she sits down and serves him. And that's what the Starfish Foundation is all about, serving the community truly from their heart and from all of their being. There's not a person involved that is not truly living out the mission that they have been called to do to serve our community. I appreciate the challenges in the neighborhood. And I think it's sad that we have a homeless population. And I would be afraid for some of that, too. But that's not what Starfish is about. They are not a homeless shelter. They are not only serving homeless people. They are serving people who just need. They are protecting our environment by keeping things out of the landfill. They are serving you. and your community, they're what makes Olathe a really great place to live. And I would hope that just like looking at what's the greater good for the community, that the Commission would consider and to approve this special permit. Thank you.

Ms. Kucharski, you have the podium. Mr. Oliver, I'm sorry? Mr. Oliver, you have the podium. Thank you.

I appreciate the time. My name is Mike Oliver. I live in Briarwood. Excuse me, this woman. Hold on a second.

Christine Brewood, you have the first chair, and Nicholas Barnett, the second. Thank you.

Again, I appreciate the Commission's time on this, and I know it sometimes gets a little heated. And I've been involved in these before, so I can appreciate the importance of that because everybody's speaking from the heart, and they're telling you what is important to them. And I've heard several times tonight references to the greater benefit for the community. And certainly the benefit of the community is the compilation of all the subparts that are part of both the comprehensive plan and the EDO is even involved in that. And certainly on things like special use permits and specific zoning. I don't think anybody in this room has said that this is something that contravenes the spirit of the community. What we've been talking about is a neighborhood, and that's the focus of this particular zone. And so I just want to make that part of this clear. I can appreciate Johnny's circumstance. I served as the executive director and general counsel for a national nonprofit for over 30 years. We had different issues. We faced different challenges. But as the executive director, it's not uncommon to be caught between a donor and a program. A donor wants certain things, the program wants something else. Or the program, in this case the board, wants certain things done, but the executive director can't take a position that contravenes the position of the supporter. And I didn't think that was an issue at all in this case until I attended the public hearing. And that's when I learned for the first time, at least partially, not from Johnny, but from some other work we did after the meeting, that the building is now owned and has been for some unknown time by this donor, a supporter, who has no tenant in it until they got Starfish in it, certainly temporarily. And so the question came up that I still haven't answered, What's been the incentive for Johnny to go find a place that doesn't require a special use permit but would require not staying where they are, which would be contrary to the interests of a significant donor? I did a little looking online. It is not hard at all to find locations within Johnson County and within the Olathe City limits that provide comparable space and a dock and access. that leases or rents for very reasonable dollars per square foot. So that was my initial question is why the fight over this property by this organization that does so much good for the city. It's property that's not central to the primary folks that they serve. We've heard that already about the number of people around their old location and how much work they had and how much business they had. And some families still stick with them because they were over there. They had seven schools that were in a situation that could utilize their services. That's not the case. So I leave this part right now. I feel like the staff as well as the group here is rushing ahead without enough objective facts to make a proper decision. We've heard about data traffic studies, but we've heard opinions. Oh, I think it was about this many. Or we didn't do a traffic study, but this is the time where the traffic is heaviest, not what the impact would be. I heard about a request for a police report relating to this property to OPD, but that report's not been produced, apparently won't be. I don't know what the conclusions were, but they would be relevant. There are also some differences between what Starfish has told the Planning Commission in its application and what it lists on its filed form 990s, the informational returns that nonprofits have to file. I don't know if those discrepancies are significant, but that's not in the record, and I can't put it in the record here as a public speaker. So this is what I would ask. Instead of making this a referendum vote on the value of Starfish, for which I take no objection. In fact, I am humbled by the service they provide to this city. But it's not a referendum on that question. It's a referendum on whether we followed the required rules, whether the staff has supported its decision with evidence and facts, and whether the right decision is to grant it or not grant it. The last thing I would leave you with is if this is the first time or almost the first time that staff has recommended only a two-year initial limit on a special use permit, I would suggest that is evidence of a discomfort or a dis-ease with whether or not we know everything we should know before we move this forward. Thank you.

Ms. Prewitt, you have the podium. Mr. Burnett, your first chair. Melissa Matajik.

She had to leave.

Okay. Andrew Kemp is second chair.

Good evening. I'm Christine Brewood. I live at 15844 West 136th Street in Olathe. I am an architect, and I have not presented in Olathe, Kansas Planning Commission, but I have experience in presenting for projects in Overland Park, Kansas City, Kansas, Kansas City, Missouri. And the Starfish Project Foundation is not compatible use of the property to its neighbor. landscaping and a small truck will not bring compatibility. So I think the request should be denied. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Nicholas Barnett. I live at 136. Yes, sorry.

Mr. Doug Tunnell, your second chair. Thank you.

Nicholas Barnett. I live at 13637 South Sycamore Street in Briarwood. I appreciate everything that's been spoken of. I think one thing that I want to make clear is that the meeting here tonight is about whether this is a good fit for the location. Nothing else. And so anything that's talked about otherwise is not appropriate for this meeting. That being said, I don't think that the evidence that has been presented, why they had to leave their last location should be any different of why it wouldn't happen here, except here we're next to our neighborhood, whereas before it wasn't, which is to me even worse. It was kind of said just prior to me, but I wanted to reiterate that the two-year check-in, I should say, I think that's great, and it's better than five, but I still feel like there's not a lot of power for the citizens of the neighborhood and the surrounding area to do anything about that. It seemed like even commission had some questions about that, and the four points were very mild, not actually the concerns that any of the people that I've talked to in the neighborhood or that were at the meeting at the library were concerned about. We're not concerned about the landscaping. We're not concerned about those type of things or a truck that's too high or too low. We're concerned about the loitering. We're concerned about the trash. We're concerned about the one thing that I think stuck out to me the most at the library meeting was the fact that all that they can do is keep that property clean, keep that property clear of vagrants or loiterers, and that's it. And then where do they go if they get sent from there, our neighborhood. This is where they go. And that's where I have fears for children. I live on that street. I do see the traffic even during the school. It would be a lot more traffic. So the library is right there. It's not just... That's not the only way that people can get to that location. They can come in the backside through Briarwood, through 139th if they want to. So it's not like the traffic could only be on 135th, in there, and then out. They can come in lots of different directions, all directions, and come through our neighborhood to get to the building where Starfish would be. So it wouldn't be that the traffic would only be there. Another thing is that we have a beautiful library just across 135th. I will not feel safe to send my children to go to the library with all the extra traffic, with the different people and different cars that would be around. I wouldn't feel safe to do that. I don't feel safe to send my family on the Indian Trail without me. Now, because of the people that I've run into on that trail. And so I definitely wouldn't feel safe moving forward. And so again, I reiterate that the very least, we cannot move forward with this if the recourse is the two-year week kind of week check-in. I think it needs to be way more thought out, evidence-based, planned out with real things that actually matter to the community. And if those things aren't met and measured, and they need to be quantifiable, they need to be measurable. And if they're not, then they need to be able to be kicked out because as it's been spoken, there's a nepotism with the owner and with the tenant. And so therefore, there's going to be little reason for them to come at odds, even if there are complaints from the neighborhood. And so I just want you to consider that before we move forward with anything. Let's not do it based on weak kind of just rush ahead and, no, this sounds good, and maybe we'll just have these few check-off lists, and if they can do that, then that's good enough. I appreciate you. Thank you.

Mr. Kemp, you have the podium. Mr. Tunnell, you're first on deck. And Mr. Tim Riley, you're second on deck.

Hello, I am Andrew Kemp. I live at 13862 South Caw Street in Olathe. I want to make it clear that I don't know anybody from Starfish. And to be quite frank, I'm not entirely sure that Starfish would appreciate the tone of my thoughts. However, I live in Briarwood. My son goes to Briarwood Elementary. My daughter used to go to Briarwood Elementary. They often play at Tomahawk Elementary, and we swim at the Briarwood Community Pool. All these things take place within 6 to 12 blocks of the proposed starfish location. My thoughts are my own, but they come from being ashamed of my neighbors. The unique perspective I wish to share tonight is a compilation of what people who are opposed to this proposal sound like to me. I call it a modest proposal. To the esteemed members of the council and concerned homeowners, it is a dreadful experience strolling through our prosperous community only to be accosted by the sight of individuals possessing neither a mortgage nor a luxury SUV. These individuals draped upon our park benches present a grave assault on our most vulnerable population, the taxpayers of half-a-million-dollar homes who must briefly look at them while walking to Pilates. Is there anything more harrowing than attempting to enjoy a $9 latte only to be disrupted by the harsh reality of systemic poverty? the tattered garments of homeless people clash with our floral arrangements, and the mere existence creates dreadful anxiety for our purebred golden doodles who do not understand why someone is sitting on a sidewalk instead of in a chaise lounge at the HOA pool. I must object to the council for entertaining this horrible proposal to approve homeless and resource support services. Providing food and clothing might inadvertently suggest that we view homelessness or impoverished people as human beings or a real problem in our community. And that's a dangerous precedent that might cause a microscopic dip in our home values. By preparing to support a place for them to get help, we are boldly declaring that we acknowledge their existence and we want their traffic interfering with the McDonald's intersection two blocks away. But I ask you, what if 40 cars per hour from single parents picking up macaroni and bananas for their children at 135th and Brougham interferes with the 60 plus cars per hour picking up Big Macs at McDonald's only two blocks away? How dare you? I did some math and the previous speaker, Mr. Sellers, said that the area has nearly 10,000 cars per day. If you approve this proposal, you will add, according to my math, 0.03 increase in traffic. I believe we can all agree with the statement, OMG. Listen, treating these people with basic human dignity is out of the question, so here are a few ideas that we could do instead. First, let's use them for power generation. Instead of resting, the homeless or impoverished should instead be forced to walk on grid-connected treadmills that would supply power to our streetlights at night. or potentially they could be mobile hotspots instead of providing resources like clothes and soup and worrying about where they roam we could strap 5g routers to their backs they could endlessly wander the streets providing free outdoor wi-fi and mildly lower our data expenses I have several other ideas, but this is just the beginning of what sounds to me like a final solution. This final solution entirely removes the dreadful burden of empathy. Why provide social services when you can simply harness human exhaustion and misery for municipal gain? The final solution takes the logic of opposing homelessness and poverty support services to its logical conclusion. If the council believes that preventing access to basic necessities is an acceptable way to manage a community, they must then agree that treating unhoused and impoverished folks as beasts of burden is the next logical step in city planning. I offer these ideas solely for the public good, to help our community proudly embrace its utter lack of humanity, masquerading our contempt and fears unsubstantiated concerns for property values and pearl-clutching exaggerations of crime. I, for one, cannot imagine living in a community that would spend its resources to be the hearth for those in the cold, to kindle a light for the drifted souls, and to offer a reprieve for hunger. That would simply be far too humane. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Doug Tunnell.

Mr. Tim Riley, you have first chair. And Lori Wilson, you're second on deck. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Doug Tunnell. I live at 11340 South Parish. We've been Olathe residents for 20 years. I've moved into town. I'd like to share a little bit of my experience with starfish, but then I'd also like to kind of give a pragmatic, what have I learned the last couple days and tonight, and share some of what I picked from this. I've become aware of Starfish a couple years ago. My son is a graduate of Olathe's OATC program, and I heard it mentioned earlier tonight about the community involvement hours that the students do. While my son didn't participate with them, I was aware in the presentations. I knew lots of kids did. And so not only do they help the community in the services they provide, they help raise our kiddos too, right, and teach them how to do different things and allow that opportunity for them. And then I'm also part of the club that was mentioned earlier where we adopted them as our charity. And so I kind of wanted to do a little bit of due diligence myself on what do they provide. I could give you an impassioned speech about starfish. Way more qualified people have done that tonight, right? But I checked around, and a friend of mine is a youth social worker for Johnson County. And I asked him, I was like, hey, do you know anything about starfishing? Before I could even spit it out of my mouth, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. I send my kids there. I have kids that have court-ordered community service hours. And he shared the one story with me about the one boy that, yeah, he was ordered to go do community service. He sent him there. And then the boy came back and he goes, did you know they let me go shop afterwards? I got to take food home to my family. And stories like that kind of struck me, what they do. But again, enough of that. What I saw tonight, prior to the meeting today, I read every single email in your package. I spent the afternoon, spent about two hours this afternoon, read every email, every communication out there to kind of form my own opinion. And My pragmatic approach, I saw a lot of, this is great, but I don't want it by me. Or why don't you go put it somewhere else? I'm a finance guy. These nonprofit companies, they don't have a strong income. Where are these locations? I mean, my wife was a director of finance for a children's home in Wichita for several years. Yeah, you can say the pizza place, but does it fit their needs? Does it Can they afford that on their budgets? They found a spot. I mean, they've been searching for a couple years to find a spot. They found a spot. Yes, they have a volunteer or a donor that's helping provide that. I bet most organizations like this have primary volunteers and people that support them that do things like this to help them out. That shouldn't be held against them, that they have somebody that helps them that will get them in that door. So other things I noticed, I go down to their location at Santa Fe and K7. I visit Red Crow. I shop at Brown Bag. I go eat at Beebe's. I eat at Sweet Thing. We go there. Had I not even known the organization had moved there, I never saw in the last couple years a change in what's going on. I probably saw more going on at the 7-Eleven on the corner than I ever saw in the parking lot after they moved in. And we go there quite frequently in that area. So, I don't know. I also noticed tonight and in the readings that All the businesses that I hear about that were against them, I didn't see any emails from them to you guys. I didn't see direct communication. Maybe they did. I don't know. I don't have everything. But the emails, I didn't see anything from them to you directly about their concerns. I didn't see them out here in the crowd tonight either coming up to speak directly. I'm hearing stories from somebody else. Part of my vetting for their... for the charity, I went and I talked to Red Crow. And they're one of their neighbors. And I asked them, I wanted to see if they would help out with the charity. I know the owners. Casually, I know the owners. I wanted to see if they'd help out with their charity auction that we had for them. But I wasn't about to go there if they had concerns. So I talked to the owner and said, do you have any problems with them? Or what's your opinion? He goes, yeah, we've seen a few more people coming up, but we don't have any issues at all with that. And they immediately gave me a donation to use to raise money for this organization. And then I also learned, and I think you're kind of giving into them a little bit, not giving into them, helping out by giving that two-year review period. I don't think that was originally part of the plan to have that, but I think adding that in, so you are kind of adding that back in, so you do have a little bit of back-end protection. But anyway, I'm fall for it, and I hope you guys hear everything I heard tonight.

Is Mr. Riley available and wish to speak? If not, okay, we'll move to Ms. Wilson. And then Stephanie Hopkins, Terry Baugh would be our last speaker tonight. Okay, you get to wrap it up.

Hi, my name is Lori Haberman-Wilson. I live at 11906 Nolan Street. I've been a resident of the area for 27 years. My sister lives in Olathe. I've been a big volunteer because I've been on the downside of things, and I'm now in a position where I can help. I love what these people do. I've actually visited their location. I've walked in. Have you all had the opportunity? I know you're busy, but have you had the opportunity to actually walk into their facility?

Remember, this is not a Q&A. Okay.

That's one question I would ask. I would also ask of the people who are submitting negative comments, have they had the opportunity to actually walk into the facility? Because like Doug, I've walked in. I see families bringing kids that are perched on the floors. There's no requirement to provide your income tax return to validate your earnings. And the kids are there. Everybody's well-behaved. Everybody's excited about being there. What I'm hearing issues here are vagrancy and problems with traffic. I went on used AI and I pulled the numbers that Aldi says they have to have to put a store in. It said 1,500 to 1,800 cars. So 400 is the number of cars we're seeing. That's an 80% reduction. And Aldi would not have been there if they built a store in 1995. They didn't leave until 2018 if they weren't. productive. Okay? So if the issue is with traffic, there's a couple things that could be done. One is you could take out those buildings and you could give Briarwood the opportunity to buy that area. And they could make it a gated community. But there is just one entrance going in and out. So do I think the traffic is going to be well handled? Absolutely. I don't think adding the traffic in is even going to be noticed. And when I pulled up in Starfish's office over, not their office, their facility by Parker, There was plenty of parking there. There's going to be plenty of parking here, and they're actually going to improve the neighborhood. Let's talk about vagrancy. Okay, the back of my house is on 119th. I walk all the time. I walk all over. I love Olathe Trails. I walk this trail all the time. I walked 127th by St. Andrew and was met by four policemen on a Sunday morning because they were looking for someone who is vagrant. I have had... A homeless person go down the street on 119th with us. I was out walking my dog. I volunteer at my church to plant and garden. I had the pastor come out and tell me, because I was there at 5 o'clock at night, you do realize we have a homeless guy that lives by the dumpster. And the president of the council comes out and goes, you do realize we've got homeless people living by our air conditioning units. Okay, my church is on 119th and Metcalfe. These issues are all over. It's not located just here. They are all over. And if we don't start doing something about it, who are we? The people that you go in, when you walk in and see what they're doing, they're not homeless people. They are not in tatters. Mostly who I saw were young women with kids in baskets that they were dropping off on the ground so they could sign in and with big eyes and utter amazement that all this was going to be offered for free. So do I support them? Yes, I do. And I I feel sorry because I understand Briarwood is upset with that, but I think if we take the proper steps, we do the landscaping, you have your two-year permit, do due diligence, I think you'll find that they're going to be a great asset to the community. Otherwise, tear down all those facilities that are out in front and give them the opportunity to buy that property so they don't have these concerns. It's something to think about. Thank you.

All right. Thanks to everyone that came up to speak and, of course, for the cooperation from the audience. Appreciate that greatly. We will move ahead now. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? So moved. Thank you, Commissioner. Toronto, do I have a second? Second. Thank you, Commissioner Brigitte. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. And the public hearing is now closed. All right, Commissioners, I'm sure we have some additional discussion for this. Who would like to go first? I'll do first. Okay. Commissioner Brown.

We've heard many passionate comments this evening and received well over 100 letters. I know I read all the letters, even from those people that don't even live in Olathe, and the many form letters that were very obvious to read. It's not the purpose of the Planning Commission to determine if a business or an organization is a worthy or noble cause. It's the duty of the Planning Commission to make decisions based on proper land use, based on the comprehensive plan, and the Unified Development Ordinance. The mere fact that this project requires a special use permit demonstrates it's outside the parameter of those original documents. A mission statement is not one of the golden criteria. The statement of purpose submitted in our package adds to several letters, and people tonight mentioned five times diverting stuff from the landfill. If that was a reason to approve a special use permit, this property could be used as a recycling center. The perceived need of the applicant for a loading dock is not a reason for a special use permit. The first paragraph of the planning page on the city website refers to, quote, preserving the character of existing neighborhoods. And this doesn't accomplish that. As has been noted earlier, the ultimate decision here rests with city council. But tonight, I can't support this application.

Any questions, Commissioner Seelig?

Did you ask if I had a question?

No, I have a comment. Okay.

I certainly appreciate everybody's attendance here tonight. The ability to come and engage and speak your piece is indicative of the great country that we live in, the greatest country in the world. I've listened to all the speakers. I've read all the emails, which was over 100 pages, listened to the presentation, and reviewed all the materials in the agenda packet. While there's no question services are needed to assist the underserved, after my independent review as a planning commissioner, this is not a measure I can support. I will be voting no on this, and I will tell you why. The character of the neighborhood I believe this proposal would fundamentally change the character of the surrounding area. Briarwood is a longstanding subdivision in Olathe. I am familiar with it as I attended Tomahawk Elementary K-3 a long time ago. The surrounding neighborhood consists of established commercial uses that serve customers during normal business hours, not a high-volume social service destination. As reported in the Johnson County Post, this facility serves over 1,000 visitors a day. This is substantially different in intensity than surrounding uses. The concentration of visitors combined with the nearby walking trail creates an environment that is inconsistent with the existing neighborhood. Compatibility with surrounding uses. I do not believe this is compatible with adjacent uses. This is a residential area with commercial locations such as Kohl's, a library, and a strip mall. effect on nearby property owners. Neighboring businesses and property owners would likely experience increased loitering, trespassing, and disruptions associated with individuals remaining in the area before and after receiving services. These impacts extend beyond the property boundaries and affect the use and enjoyment of adjacent properties. Public health, safety, and welfare. This is my primary concern. The combination of over 1,000 visitors, proximity to the walking trail, campers, and transient activity, and the potential for increased vagrancy and loitering creates foreseeable public safety concerns. Increased pedestrian activity, emergency calls, and interactions between vulnerable populations and recreational trail users could negatively affect the safety of residents. And for that reason, that will be a no vote.

Thank you, Commissioner Sealing. Commissioner Birgitta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a couple questions for staff and then some for the applicant as well. Ms. Hollingsworth, I know earlier we talked a little bit about Goodwill and Savers. I believe this is the case, but I want you to confirm my understanding. The main difference here between Starfish and Goodwill for this location is that Starfish is a nonprofit, is not making any funds. And they have a slightly different set of services than what a Goodwill would have. And that's why there's the distinction and the rule does not apply here. Is that correct?

The most, if I could really boil it down, the most fundamental difference is that Starfish Project is not giving items out in exchange for money, for dollars. And that is what Goodwill was doing, which more aligns with that other definition that would be distance-restricted.

Okay. Thank you. That answers my question. And then for the applicant, I had just a quick question. I know you all have experienced a lot of growth. How long do you foresee this location being able to keep up with your growth, and how long do you anticipate being at this location?

We were planning to or hoping to be there for about like 10 years. Again, if it goes and it gets too big, then we would need to move.

With your current trajectory of growth, would it be able to accommodate you for 10 years?

I'm seeing at least five.

Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I have a couple comments. Sure, go right ahead. From my perspective, when it comes to the special use permit, it really comes down to the truck. I mean, that's what this is ultimately about, is the truck. I do respect the opinions of my fellow commissioners and I do understand where they're coming from. And so I do plan to make a friendly amendment or motion to it that might address some of their concerns, but ultimately I do plan on voting yes on this amendment. Thank you.

All right. Commissioner Corcoran?

Much like Commissioner Brigitte, I'll be supporting this application tonight for special use permit. I do not believe it's an incompatible use to the neighborhood. I don't think it's going to have a significant or adverse impact on the neighborhood. I'm also very familiar with that neighborhood. I lived there for 15 years. Aside from that, I see less traffic or less potential traffic than the former uses. Every grocery store has a trash problem. So I can't imagine that with the Aldi store there versus this store there, that the trash is really going to be that big of an issue. And I think it's going to be policed adequately. I think the hours of operation are very reasonable. And I think that their operating during non-peak hours With respect to to the traffic peaks, so I'll be supporting the application I do think it's a very important piece for the community and I think it fits in this location Thank you Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Corcoran anyone else comments I do have a Couple of questions for staff We talked a little bit about the C1 current zoning, but there was also some comments made, whether it be the future or whatever, around community commercial. Give us some background on that and where that conversation fits in between the two.

Yeah, and let me ask a clarifying question real quick. The community commercial, do you mean the future land use prescribed by Elevate Olathe potentially?

Just community commercial. Commercial was the term used by who brought it up. So I'm not 100% certain what the thought process was.

I'll say a few things. So looking back at future land use maps of the city of Olathe over time, this has been commercial since at least 1997 per our future land use maps. So we just had a general category called commercial. In 2010, it changed to commercial corridor, which is a little higher intensity for all of the Santa Fe 135th Street corridor. And that was really looking at a full range of commercial uses, high traffic, high visibility uses, and opportunities to be transformed over time for different land uses. Elevate Olathe, 2026, which was adopted back in April of this year, introduced the next layer of the commercial corridor, like the next corridor. iteration of that pretty much the same land use type. So it has stayed consistent over many, many years. And this property has had that C1 district in the ground for 47 years. Um, there have been a couple land use changes over time in the UDO, but generally there's been a pretty consistent makeup of uses that we be permitted on this property.

Okay. Um, AND THIS MAY BE, YOU KNOW, OUT OF YOUR SPECTRUM, BUT ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY, YOU KNOW, REPEATED OR PATTERN OF POLICE INVOLVEMENT DUE TO THE HOMELESS THAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED TO US, YOU KNOW, ALONG THE WALKWAY NEARBY, NEAR THE CREEK? NEW SPEAKER NO. NEW SPEAKER DO WE HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON THAT THAT WAS GIVEN TO US IN THE PROCESS?

NEW SPEAKER NO. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING.

NEW SPEAKER OKAY. THANK YOU. I have one real quick question for the applicant, just because it's something I heard. So we have this set up to where, you know, the van is going to be doing a couple trips. But there was a comment made somewhere along the line about other incoming trucks. Are there other deliveries outside of the van that are come and go that, you know, are large trucks?

We do not have scheduled deliveries, no.

Okay. All right. That's the only question I had.

Thank you.

Commissioner, is there anything else? Commissioner Lynn.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Honestly, I could go either way on this. My biggest concern is the enforcement of the overnight camping that's happening there. I know that I personally used to walk in that area. I do not anymore. I do not feel safe to walk by myself, even during the day. And I am concerned that that could be increased. And so I would really like to see the city, whether it's that they need to update code or not code, but their ordinance, or maybe the police, more enforcement by the police. But that is a concern for me. If I had the assurance from the city and from the police department that that would not be an issue, I think I would be supportive of this. I'm really curious to hear what Commissioner Burdita's amendment is. Maybe that will sway my vote. Thank you.

Commissioner Tronis. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK THE CITY STAFF BECAUSE I THINK THEY DID DUE DILIGENCE IN PROVIDING US WITH THE DOCUMENTATION, INCLUDING ALL THE COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE E-MAILS. AND CERTAINLY I APPRECIATE THOSE THAT SPOKE TONIGHT, VERY COMPASSIONATE AND CONDUCTED THEMSELVES APPROPRIATELY. SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. BUT I MUST TELL YOU THAT I HAVE SOME CONCERNS. about the fit. I used to live in Ashton Estates. We would go that way on Brougham to bypass Blackbaugh. And oftentimes I'd go that way. We would go that way when school was in session. So I know firsthand what the traffic looks like, although I appreciate the turning lanes that are going to go on Santa Fe and Brougham. I think that will help. I also like the fact that instead of a five-year approval, it's two years, because I think you will have an opportunity at another public hearing to raise any additional concerns, and again, what are the action plans, what was the prerogative measures taken to continue or not? For me, and I appreciate my colleagues' comments, I just have concerns about the traffic, the safety. And for me, a parent with grandkids, I'm concerned about the safety issue of the little ones. So thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Trenas. Commissioner Chapman?

Thank you, Chairman. I'm struggling with this one. The struggle that I have is I'm still there are issues that I think are relevant that haven't been satisfactorily addressed tonight. And It leads me to go on the side of caution and vote against this, simply because these are issues that I believe are relevant. We've talked about, well, maybe this, maybe that. We haven't talked to the police. We don't know. We're surmising. And I feel that there are facts and data that we need in order to make a better decision on whether or not to approve the special use permit. In other words, to allow something that otherwise would not be allowed, but for us making an exception. And so when we do that, when we are willing to consider an exception, I believe that the least we are owed are the facts so that we can make an intelligent decision and not be left guessing whether or not we've made the right decision. Now, I would... To all of you, I would encourage you to show up at the city council meeting with the same passion there that you had here tonight. And it very well may work in your favor to get this approved. But as it stands right now, and absent what Commissioner Birgitta may throw out on the table, I'm inclined to vote no on this.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I'd like to propose an amendment to the motion, unless there's further discussion.

Yeah, what are we talking about? Let's just have a discussion first before we put something into motion.

I would move it from two years to one year, and I would also add a stipulation, and I may ask legal to help me with how to phrase this. but something along the lines of compliance, 100% compliance or total compliance with city code when it comes to loitering, soliciting, panhandling, littering, and I believe there was one other item as well. We'll leave it with those three items.

I think that stipulation will be hard for any applicant to meet with 100% compliance. Someone could be loitering there that has nothing to do with their nonprofit that came. So, I mean, controlling littering or property maintenance code violations, for instance, to control trash or to ensure no overnight camping on their own property. Things under their control would probably be easier to write into a step, but things like an individual coming on the property from the public that you don't have control over and they call the police to have them trespassed would still be a violation of loitering, for instance.

Okay. So if we were to just do the first two, what would that motion look like then?

Well, the first two were loitering and soliciting. The last two. Sorry. Panhandling or littering. I think you could use that the agency... 100% is a pretty strict standard, but I think that you could probably make it legally defensible if you used the agency. So use all best and good faith efforts to enforce all panhandling, littering, and other property maintenance requirements on the property.

The agency would in good faith comply with all littering, panhandling, and property maintenance according to the UDO or city code.

City code.

Is that contrary to what would be assumed?

You're supposed to do those anyway. That's a pretty hard stipulation to really enforce in a special use permit.

I guess my reason for bringing it up is that it draws attention to it as part of the conditions under which we're approving this, so that if we come back a year from now, And that's not the case. It's forward, front, and center as to, hey, we approved it under the assumption that this was going to happen, as opposed to they could have complied with everything else and that stuff could have still happened and been corrected. That's why I'd want to make the motion for the approval of the item with the reduction to one year and all stipulations recommended by staff in addition that the agency would in good faith comply with littering and loitering and property maintenance according to city code.

I think the issue and I appreciate Commissioner Birgitta what you're talking about there but I think the issue becomes once it leaves the property of the applicant and then it becomes the residents problem or another business's problem to deal with. And I think that's the issue all along, for me, is the surrounding area being affected by what's going on there. So I do appreciate what you're saying, and I agree with council. I think it would be hard to enforce something like that. I'm not even sure how we would monitor that or how staff would monitor that, not me. But yeah, the issue becomes once it leaves their property, then it becomes somebody else's property.

That's a good point. And I would say, I mean, for the record, I think a two-year is significant because five is pretty standard, and to do two is a pretty big deal. So that's kind of just where I'm at on that particular question. We're kind of going both ways here. I do have a question for our legal counsel on our process. in that if it does pass through planning commission, then the council with a majority vote can pass it as well. Whereas if it is declined, it does require more than a simple majority at the council level. Is that correct?

Yes.

My question is which policy is in effect with a 4-4 tie?

If there was a 4-4 tie, that would count as recommending denial.

I'm sorry, could you speak?

Is my mic on? If the planning commission ended up in a 4-4 tie, then that counts as recommending denial or not recommending approval.

And it would have the larger threshold on the city council.

Yeah, it would be five city council members would have to vote in support of the special use permit for it to be approved.

Okay. Commissioner Corcoran?

Just a comment. Kim, correct me if I'm wrong, but a special use permit allows you to pull the applicant in at any time. And so whether it's one year, two years, five years, if they're not complying with the requirements of the special use permit, the city can call them in and pull their permit. Am I correct in saying that?

That's generally correct. So we first investigate any complaints, anything that we get, or anything that we observe ourselves. There is a revocation process that was formally laid out in the UDO. It's actually initiated by the Planning Commission or the City Council. There's a public hearing involved, and it goes through very formal steps. There's approval criteria to revoke the special use permit. And so it's all spelled out, and it's something that we have within our code and jurisdiction.

And the other side of that is the burden on the applicant to have to prepare an application for a special use permit, the time and so forth, and the effort and cost of building their business in that place and potentially having that being pulled in a year just because the winds have changed rather than not complying with the requirements of the special use permit.

Yeah, and I will tell you the special use permit process takes approximately three months, and so we rarely see a one-year time. It has happened, but we rarely see a one-year time period because it takes three months to start the process. You're already starting the next cycle, and so two years gives you a little more time. Thank you.

Commissioner Birgitta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Corcoran, if I may, the temperature I read of the Planning Commission is that we're going to be voting no this evening. I could be wrong on that. But the effort, the intent, I understand the additional burden of the one year as opposed to two year. The idea with it is that it might get us to a yes vote overall. And it would provide, it doesn't completely address your concern, Mr. Sealing. And I I understand that, but until it gets there, we don't really know for sure either way. You may be right. And as a father, I would not want to be in that situation either. So I understand that. At the same time, though, it is their property. It really comes down to the truck. That's really what we're talking about here. All the other things are on the periphery to that. I mean, I would be fine with doing it at two years. I just don't think it will pass necessarily. And so that's why I make the one years because automatically then we have some sample data as to what's actually happening on site, if that makes sense.

All right. Are there any other inquiries, questions, comments? Okay, then I will entertain a motion for SU 26-0006.

Mr. Chair, I move that we deny this motion. Is that the proper motion for a no vote? Yeah. Yeah, I move that we deny this motion.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Sealing. Do I have a second?

I'll second that.

Thank you, Commissioner Brown.

With a question. So a vote of yes denies it.

That is accurate. All right. Everybody clear? All right. Ms. Will, we'll take a voice vote here. Roll call vote, excuse me.

Commissioner Corcoran?

No.

Commissioner Lynn? Yes.

Sorry. Yes.

Commissioner Seelig?

Yes.

Commissioner Chapman?

Yes.

Commissioner Brigitte?

No.

Commissioner Torrones?

Yes.

Commissioner Brown?

Yes.

Chair Janner?

Well, it looks like my vote doesn't count, because they do have a five-vote majority. I tell you what, I, through the last couple of weeks, have been 50-50 on this issue all the way through. And, you know, a large part of that is because many of you know that I've been a resident of Briarwood for 30 years. And I also have a handful of very, very good friends that volunteer regularly at Starfish. So I've been 50-50 all week. And I'm probably not a whole lot different right now. I'M NOT OVERLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I WOULD SAY, EXCEPT ONE POINT THAT SOMEBODY BROUGHT UP TONIGHT IS THE EXITING AND HEADING SOUTH, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS THE SCHOOL. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS FOLKS ARE GOING TOO FAST ON THAT ALREADY. AND TO BRING THAT NEW TRAFFIC, THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN. I LOVE THE TWO-YEAR SPECIAL USE PERMIT. I THINK THAT'S REALLY GOOD. THE ATTRACTION OF THE LOITERING, THE PEOPLE WE DON'T WANT THERE, THE HOMELESSNESS, I THINK PROBABLY WHAT TOOK ME BACK A LOT TONIGHT WAS I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE WITH STARFISH BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY GOING ON. AND THE LEVEL OF THAT IS CONCERNING TO ME REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THIS MOVES FORWARD. BUT I THINK THAT IS A GENERAL CONCERN FOR ME. This will pass. But I think I'll vote no.

The motion to recommend denial passes five to three. Okay.

Is there any other business? Any announcements?

No, none this evening. Thank you.

All right. This meeting is hereby adjourned.