Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

06:00. We're gonna go ahead and start. This is the regular meeting of the Ohio Planning Commission for Wednesday, July 16. Sherry, can we get a roll call?

Chair Trent? Here. Vice chair Murphy? Here. Commissioner Graham? Here. Commissioner Chesley? Here. One vacancy.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Jonathan, do you mind leading us in the pledge?

Nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Perfect. Thank you. Alright. So we have public communications. This is the time aside for anything that's not on the agenda. I don't have any speaker cards. Is there anybody online, Cher?

No. There's not.

Alright. Perfect. We'll move on. Next, we've got disclosure of site visits, ex parte contacts. I I visited the site and I met with one of the builders. I believe his name was Mike. Yeah. Met with Mike and he showed me around. And that's it. Which item was it for?

What's that? Which item was it for?

Oh, I I apologize. This is for item number one. Oh, wait. Yeah. Item number one.

Nowhere to go on two.

Yeah. There's nowhere to go on two. Yeah. Anybody else? Ex parte contacts? Site visits?

The same thing. I visited the site and had a tour.

Perfect. Anyone else?

I visited the site and met with the applicant.

Okay. No ex parte contacts or site visits.

Alright. Cool. I don't approval of meeting minutes on here. Is that No

minutes for this for this meeting.

Oh. What do mean for the prior meeting?

Minutes minutes to act on. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Cool. Perfect. Thank you. Alright. So let's move on to the public hearing item then for the review of the phasing plan progress and the consideration of an adjustment. And who's gonna lead the way on this one?

So I'll open it up and then I see Jeff the applicant is here to talk about the phasing plan as well. But I'll I'll kind of set the table and then I've got a site plan kind of showing the the different phases that have have been outlined and a part of the approvals from 2008, 2009, and then reinvigorated the settlement agreement as well.

So Okay.

Let me just pull up

a simple site plan here. Alright. So good evening commission. My name is Lucas Seiber. I'm the community development director here for the city of Ojai.

The item we have here for you tonight is a public hearing item for planning commission review and consideration regarding DRP zero five zero one. And it's a review of an approved phasing plan progress in consideration of an adjustment to the Cottages Among the Flowers located at 312 West Aliso Street and it is in regards to a 10 unit, now 12 unit phasing plan which is a part of a settlement agreement for the bungalows which added two affordable housing units which ended up being ADUs. Those units are both low and very low from an affordable housing rate. Deed restricted fifty five years. The phasing plan itself, if you're looking at the site plan in front of you here, there's yellow, green, blue, and red.

The yellow signifies phase one and that's two units. Two main units and then a four car garage, four car garage, right? Five car garage, and that also includes two ADUs on top. That is nearing completion and as a part of one of the conditions of approval, as a part of this project, and just just to kinda help set the table here, this is a project that has been ongoing for a number of years. There was a settlement agreement that brought this project forward as well as four other ones.

We're focusing on really the phasing plan for tonight in terms of consideration. Initially, with this project it was 10 units. The settlement agreement brought on two additional affordable units which are a part of the phase one. Those are waiting for final approval or certificates, C of O for them to be occupied. Before they move on to phase two, outline, includes kind of the central core area for renovation, that the applicant brought forward a request to also consider doing phase four, which is the red area that you see here.

And kind of, not necessarily putting the carp before the horse, but really kind of doing ground up construction in in the case of what we're talking about here, but more importantly, there's a condition of approval that requires and it was made as a part of the planning commission's wisdom in 2008 for before it goes forward to phase four that come before this body. Now, obviously, I don't think anybody was here in 2008 when this came forward, but you are here now tonight acting and and representing the planning commission and providing an opportunity for discussion and determination. So that's really what we're here to talk about. It's two different options here. The first option is just moving forward with phase two and and just moving forward two two to three to four.

There's a request to also skip two and three and move to four for ground up construction for the two two new units. And that's in the red highlighted area that you can see here. And I should preface it with, it's two units side by side and really what it is, is it's gonna be the two Samara units that were part of the that are gonna be part of the Mallory Way project which is just above it. So that's kinda what you're seeing here. They're wanting to site those two Samara units.

Either do it in coordination with the three units in terms of renovations for those or restoration of those, or do four and then come back and do two and then three. One of the reasons, and I'll have Jeff come up and kinda speak to to the request and where it came from, is there are tenants currently living in 2 and in phase two and 3. Obviously, nobody's living in 4 because it's ground up construction. So, are tenants in 2 And 3 and the thought is is to to skip to four, let those tenants remain in place, get those units up and active. As a part of the settlement agreement, it gives options for those tenants to either to do a number of things.

So, gives additional options out there. So, with that, let's pause for any questions that the commission may have. And then, I'd also invite Jeff to kinda fill in the blanks here for for this phasing as well.

I have just a quick question. How does this I'm just the map is a little confusing. I'm trying to figure out how this fits in with the current construction that's going on in the cottages.

Right there is current. Up here is phase four.

Yeah. So yellow

This is current.

The yellow area that's highlighted there on the left Uh-huh. That's current. Okay. That's what's currently going front. And it's really in the front. Aliso is to your left, it would be to the south.

I gotcha.

The north arrow is on the very bottom there, you can see.

Yeah. Okay.

I do have a question and I'm not sure if it's for you or for Jeff, but long as you're both there, may I proceed? On page one of the administrative report, the last sentence says the adjustment to the phasing plan would allow for the prefabricated Samara units slated for phase four to be installed in a smaller scale. And I'm wondering what the smaller scale, what we're talking about there.

Yes. That's one of the motivations is that the prior approved duplex structure that's in the red highlighted area, We propose to replace that with two of the Samara units with I think they're about 600 square feet each versus this which is each side was about 1,700 square feet. They are much smaller. Okay. One of our other motivations really related to using the Samara units and then the future units at Mallory is that we want to one, sort of do these as a test case to bring them in because these have to be craned in,

which

is no small feat at this site because of trees and access, all that good stuff. But they also have kind of an interesting foundation plan. It's a pinning plan. So it's imagine massive stakes versus like your typical skirt foundation. And so we've spent a lot of time working with their engineering firm, which is out of Washington State. And we'd like to try to use this pinning system and kind of test case it to see if it'll work with our soil.

What is the advantage of the pinning system?

A lot less construction noise. So you're basically, you know, you're not trenching, you're leveling and then you're using a pinning system. And it's a whole different maze of different metal pinning that's tied together.

Does it is it open? Would it allow air or water to move?

Underneath it? Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah, it would. Yeah. It's elevated a couple feet.

And then do you have to skirt the

Yes, definitely for animals and other goodies.

Critters. Pending system is basically gonna serve as like a foundation so to speak.

Yeah, it's an anchoring foundation system. Right. But not something that's typically been used here.

Right.

They've used it in California. It's been permitted. That was one of our concerns. But we haven't seen it here locally.

Yeah. And the advantages to that is what it just makes the foundation secure like versus being on blocks. Right. Okay. Gotcha.

Yeah. Definitely. And the installation is a little different, you know, you're you're driving it in with pneumatic versus trenching and forming.

Right. Instead of doing like concrete.

I think that the

Is it a helical pile?

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Is it like

a helical pile?

Like twisting. Yeah. Yeah.

One more question about phase four in the administrative report page three of four, the phase four secondtion. The first item says construction of proposed secondary driveway to Aliso Street. I'm not clear where that driveway is supposed to be.

A Oh, yeah. I remember.

This point here. So Lisa's here on the far left.

Right. And

you see the red sort of outline there that's that is a secondary fire lane.

Yep. There's a

You mean at the top at the top?

At the top. Correct. It's yes. Would be

to the It's a fire lane, not a not an access for residents.

Correct. Yeah. So there's a couple different access points for this this project. First, on the very bottom which would be the east side, there is an access point along Aliso. Right. That gives you access to the garage and those two units. A secondary access which is also considered a primary is off of that Oak?

Yes. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Which is also on the bottom. Yep. And then you have the the red access point, which is really all dirt right now. And that's in the red. That's at the very top. Yeah.

And and that would not be really open to the public?

Is the idea for that to be open to the public or is that No. I thought that was for

emergency For residents. That's for residents that live there.

Res Residents

that live there, not emergency.

So they would access it. Can kind of Probably over.

Yeah. Right there. Here. Mhmm. At

this opening

here. Right.

And you're through to here. And you see the parking here. This map here shows the original duplex that was approved.

Right.

It's the Samara layout.

Okay. Right.

Maybe. Do you have that?

I don't have the Samara layout. It's much the footprint is much smaller. So

Okay. So that that red opening on Aliso at the top is open for residents. It'll be a secondary drive.

It's really a fire lane.

So does that mean it's not open? It's not open. Okay. You.

Will there be a gate blocking it that

Probably. Yeah. The fire department will probably require that with a with a lock system, you know, their their lock catch system.

Their primary access is off of Oak. I mean, all the improvements that you're seeing there are off of Oak on that East Side.

Oak open yet? Are you are you using Oak as an

access point? Oak is open at present. Right. Yeah. One one of the other one of the other reasons that we submitted the application is we have utility installs.

Phasing plan

Jeff, can you can you move that so that they can Sorry.

Yeah. The phasing plan that was done in 02/2009, that was long before our time, before we were involved. But you have utility issues and the main thing right now we're sort of in the middle of is with Edison. We're bringing all new Edison underground. Everything right now is above ground. And it also includes the neighbors, by the way. You know, it's kind of a little bit of a can of worms. But we have the new utility feeds and we back fed to the neighbors underground and we'd like to get that in phase actually runs behind this building and goes this direction. This is phase two.

Right.

But we've gotta extend that all the way across here, across the new tunnel system for the storm channel that we've already put

in. Right.

And so that underground electric feed will go over that to feed the two units. My biggest concern is trying to get all that underground work done so we're done, you know, the major part of it. Phase three will actually be fed off of Oak, the Oak side with Edison. So but this section is fed really off the first phase and in the second phase.

Is that really the underpinning of why you're asking to move up phase four or is there any other considerations as to why you want

to The high points are really utilities to get those done as part of you know doing phase two. So we're phase two and phase four are done. And then trying out the the pinning system for the Samara units which you know two of these know, we wanna try to get that down that whole system because we're gonna put in 30.

Yeah. A lot more of them.

We're put in a whole bunch of them over, you know, up up north over the next couple of years. And we'd like to really get that figured out before we tackle Mallory which is gonna be a much you know, it's a monstrous

thing. Is

the Samara are the Samara units that you plan to put in here the one bedroom units that we saw in Westwood?

Yeah. Westlake. Yeah. They're they're both one bedroom units. You you saw kind of their first concept. They're a little little bit more improved from what you saw but yes that's the same size. We are using and we were just actually talking about it. These two we have Hardie siding so they they look they're wood hardy siding versus a metal. It does have metal roofs.

Good. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a little more in keeping with the cottages.

Yes. Yes.

Can you speak to the you speak to the Hardy Plank? The Hardy Plank is more of a fire resistant material. Correct?

It is. Yeah. Both the Hardy Plank and the metal siding are all rated fire rated. So, are state license, state permitted. So, so we did decide to go with the the Hardywood style siding for these because it matches the other cottages a little bit more in keeping. And they're much smaller. This this will allow us to save a couple more oak trees. There's a lot of oak trees. I'm not sure if you walked all of you got to walk over there but there's some, you know, they used to be really small trees they've grown and this will allow us to save a few more of those. And there's one really large oak tree.

You kinda have that green outline here but one in particular was right in this courtyard. It's kinda where that x, green x is.

Mhmm.

And with this duplex, I I don't think that tree would have made it with this formally approved design.

Oh, right. Yeah. I see

what What's I'm the path that you're bringing the Samara units

in via? Great question. We are trying to figure that out. I just had their engineering team there.

Because I was wondering about the fire when

we were

there and that doesn't seem really possible.

No. I So

but now that I see this, I'm like, oh, I guess you could come in maybe through Oak but

I actually think we'll end up I mean, I'm waiting for them to weigh in on it. They did look at Oak but I think it actually might be from Mallory Way.

Uh-huh. But so that's not

It's kinda where we have all the stuff staged in the fenced area. Right. I think that's gonna be the best bet. Actually, John, you and I looked at the one that they craned in.

Yeah.

In Santa Barbara. Yeah. And Yeah. They had that Similar. They had the guy there that ran the crane.

Okay.

Yeah. He was at the site and so he kinda took me aside and was like, yeah. That's where we're gonna set up.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we'll see. I'm waiting

That's not really driving this because you I guess you'd be coming from a different position in the site.

Yeah. We gotta figure out how to get them in there and they do have kind of like a roller system I'll call it. Uh-huh. Yeah. So they could drop it and roll it in but, you know, we'll see. I mean, they're they're experts at that. Yeah.

And there's houses that are surrounding the the

Yeah. There's houses all along the the north end and to the I'm sorry, the west side of the red area and also to the west side of the of this du duplex is kinda pop out.

Yeah. There's a house like right

there. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. But what what about I I'm assuming this is north right above where it hits Mallory Way. Is there are there houses there? Like, how are you gonna

So hit your

ingress point?

So this this section here is vacant other than oak trees,

big oak trees.

To if you take this line here Yep. And you go kinda straight up, there's a house just to the west of that, north on this thing.

Yeah. And that's like a there's like a wall.

So we we would be craning in basically from, you know, this area over the trees.

Got it. Oh, got it.

Over the trees.

Over the trees.

Over the trees.

The one in Santa Barbara, they went over trees and a house.

Yeah. Wow.

I mean, they're using the big Yeah.

The big guy.

The big guy. Yeah. Big big red crane. Very large red crane.

Can't see that. Yeah. Okay.

It's yeah.

It's a little weird insurance.

Mhmm. I hope so. Yeah. We'll get into that at some point.

Yeah. And the On when I did walk the side, know the path from Oak Street is it's pretty much built out. Right? I mean, it's it's dirt, but it's it's there. I mean, it looks

like that

you guys did the repairs to the the creek. So you're there's a there's a clear pathway

to The channel, yes. We yeah. They did a bunch of tractor work when they did the the channel upgrade work.

And and all of these the houses that are there now, these are all existing structures. Right? Or the ones that are in the blue and the green?

Yeah.

Yeah. Those are Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Only the red. There's nothing in the red zone at present.

Right. Got it.

Does anyone know why the phasing was this way to begin with?

Good question. I don't know.

Yeah. I'll admit it is

a little unusual for the the small number of units. But given the consideration of of the bungalows themselves, I think there's a lot of concern from the community in regards to just the modifications. Easing that in over time with this phasing, think is kind of I've done a lot of reading up, but it's hard. The institutional knowledge isn't there anymore. So, it's just understanding what you're seeing from the reports.

It seems like that was the the biggest concern was the impact over time versus the impact immediate. So, the phasing piece, it also helps Jeff and his team work through the undergrounding piece. And then, as a part of the settlement, it also helps those those tenants that are currently occupying to find other More time. Shelter. Yeah. The first two units that we're talking about here in the yellow, those first two those two units had been vacant since before 2019. Right?

Yeah. We vacated them in '20

And the two units above the five car garage, those are brand new. That was a part of the settlement. Right. So

What would be the downside of approving a change in the phasing? Are there any?

Let's hear from the community on what the downside is. Because I To me, I'm looking at it from the standpoint of a process versus the impacts to the people who are actually living there. So, I'm not seeing I'm not seeing a downside from the phasing standpoint. If you if you push phase four to be either in a line two or to jump the line where two ends up coming after phase four, I don't see an issue with that because right now we're talking about an area that that is vacant.

Okay. It it all sounds very logical,

but Yeah.

I just wondered if there were

But I would like to hear from the community on this.

Yeah. I

had one But last we have no cards from the community.

Is that There's at least one there. Yes? Yeah. We got one. Okay.

Yeah. I've got one question.

If if you're wanting to speak on this item, there's green cards at the entry to

the door here. Please fill them out. Just one question before I'm I'm ready to turn it over to the public. Page four of the admin report, last sentence of the second to last paragraph. In return, the developer has been granted city owned land abutting Mallory Way. Just confirming, this is for the Mallory Way project. That is a city granted land. This isn't additional city granted land specifically for the bungalows.

Correct. The reason why that's in there is it's the it's bungalow settlement agreement. So it's call it's all encompassing. I I kinda borrowed the language from what we had previously written. So it was I was trying not to to change that language and staying consistent. So you're right. It does cover that but it's that's for Mallory Way. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Guess my And

to clarify on that point, it hasn't been officially approved by the city. That's something that's coming at the council meeting for that project. Their surplus land act noticing and things that we have to do and council has to formalize that decision before that can happen.

Yeah. Just confirming. Thank you.

With the so with this plan, these would be done and could be occupied while these are under construction. So the access will have people kinda going through where the, you know, where future I mean, it's renovation, so maybe it's a little lighter. But I guess my question is, does this phasing take that into account? Meaning, like, right now, there's gonna be potentially roadwork happening here, which is, like, the access to the new Samara units, which is

The area you're speaking to is the area in blue. Correct?

Yeah. The area in blue. Sorry. You enter on Oak. Mhmm. Which seems to be the access point for this Yeah. Unit.

Jeff, can you speak to that? The access would be mainly off of Oak or mainly off of Aliso for the construction purposes

If if we move forward with phase four the two Samara units what we're planning to do is have temp access off of the fire line. There's just too much work to be done in phase three around that final would in essence be the final section.

Got it. Okay.

And phase two, two of the units are already vacant. One of the one of the occupants, Scott, is still in the unit. We're waiting to see if he qualifies for one of the ADU units.

Right.

The city's So

I'm confused. So the main access is gonna be at the top? It's gonna be

Temporarily until until Phase three we're into that which honestly it's taken a while. Phase one is taking us probably twice as long as we thought mainly because of utility issues and we've still got some off-site improvements that we're working through.

A lot of rocks in the ground too.

Yeah. That's true.

But they use them really well.

Yeah. So there, you you just there's unknowns you run into.

I guess my question is the Samara units are they gonna be occupied during the temporary access or are they gonna not be occupied?

We'd like to try and occupy them but we'll see. The main thing for us initially is how does this layout? How do we get it installed? Really, it's a tough spot there and Mallory Way is kind of similar. So we're trying to figure out like how's this gonna lay out with these, you know, prefabs.

But if those prefabs are there and they have folks occupying, where are those folks gonna park? Where are they gonna go in and out of?

For the for the for the temporary until we get the Oak Street side done. Right. Have the fire line fire lane, I should

say.

Sorry. And we would we would use that.

But they can't drive cars on that, can they? Yeah. You can. You can?

Yeah. We're yeah. We're driving equipment down it

and Oh. Yeah. I know. I haven't seen it. Okay.

Yeah. We had to do a ton of work with the storm channel

Yeah.

Upgrades. So yeah. We had we had lots of good stuff. Interesting.

And so is the goal to start with phase two, move all the utilities up and then work on phase four and getting the undergrounding utilities and drop the Semsara units? Or is it to drop the Semsara units and then work back through phase two?

No. We need to do all the underground first. All that needs to be done first. And and they have to make the units too. You know, that that's gonna that's about a four month process.

Sure. Thank you.

So we would hopefully get all that done over time.

Is there and is do we get a is there a plan? I mean, does it matter how the Samara units are laid out on this? I mean, I guess not as far as how phasing goes Well, but

it does it does okay. So there's a couple of things regarding the Samara units. The Samara units were a part of a director's exemption

Mhmm.

Approval. Not only that, but this is a part of a track map. So, those areas that you're seeing in the red that have that gray Mhmm. Those areas are the boundaries by which each of those lots are allowed to Put that on this screen

over here so we can see the map. Can't see

The map's not over there? No.

It hasn't been the whole time. Thank you. Oh.

Is it now?

Yes. It

is now. Okay. Good.

But this is first time it's been up up there. There. Oh. Oh. That That we we can can follow. Follow.

Okay. So, thank you. So, sorry. The question was the Samara units?

Mhmm.

Okay. So We're just looking at an old layout, so Correct.

Correct. I did that intentionally because this is the original approval from from o eight, o nine.

And that's what we're determining based on. Correct.

But the layout that you're seeing there is really the layout by which each of those two tracked units Mhmm. Are that's the boundaries by which they can operate. There's, it's not beyond

that. Sure.

Sure. The Samara units that you're look that were part of the director's exemption are much smaller. I mean, we're talking you said 1,700 square feet initially and these Samaras are right around 600. So it's considerably smaller.

Yeah. And

there's parking next to the Samaras or in that section?

Yeah. In that area.

That's future parking though. There's no parking there now.

No. Correct. Right. Okay. Okay.

Alright. Any other questions for Jeff? Nope. Nope. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Alright. We'll open it up to public comment. I got two speaker cards. Anita?

Good evening. Good evening. If you don't know, live in the cottages among the flowers. Flowers. And I actually live off the Oak Street entrance. So okay. I'm gonna go for it here. This project has been out of compliance in many ways, you know, of the conditions of approval. And the community has had to play oversight on this project in an attempt to bring it into compliance. Tree protection, lots of problems there. You know, contract contract with a Chumash monitor. The crew even had to be sent home one day to bring him in compliance with that. Dust mitigation, it is still a problem. Dust mitigation is still a huge problem. It is flying, and it is coming into my backyard.

I asked umpteen times, and it does not get corrected. The creek, that was illegally covered. You guys know that, that they should have had permits from the State of California. That was our creek. It belongs to We the People, illegally covered without any idea of what was actually supposed to be done there.

So, you know, contrary, you know, continuing problems. No consultations with a qualified historic preservation professional. That's in the conditions of approval for the Cottages Among the Flowers. They were actually only supposed to be doing renovations, leave two walls completely torn down. You know, where is this professional historian that's supposed to be making sure these renovations meet standards?

And that also applies to this new duplex that's supposed to go up the hill. That is supposed to be historically aligned with the cottages among the flowers. These should be historic on the national, state, city level. That was given up. The city gave that up in this settlement agreement, and so that's why they were supposed to have professional historian.

That's why this duplex is supposed to be in compliance with historic nature of the cottages among the flowers. You know, this hasn't been good behavior, and it's gonna be rewarded here tonight if you just go along with what's being proposed. So this will magnify the chaos and disruptions to our lives of those of us who live in the cottages. And believe me, I pay premium rent while living in the middle of a construction zone. The creek work was awful, right in my backyard, and it was illegal.

I will remind you. Our water has been shut off numerous times because the water is all connected. It's not separated out in separate meters. Meters. If two phases are allowed to happen at the same time, it's just gonna be awful. And, you know, the plan showed that, as you know, the the entrance for the new cottage is supposed to be on Oak Street. Well, you know that Fire Road that you're talking about using? There are property owners that own that. And they currently park there and they block it. And it is their right to do that.

It is their property. So I don't know how you are going to tell them, hey, you can't do that. We are going to use this road to access this new Duplex that has been been put on the hill there. You know, if phase four is finished before phase two, as we've been discussing, the unlucky residents in this little duplex that doesn't match historically are gonna be right in the middle of access points for trucks because that's the way they're coming now. That's that's the truck travel way.

And they pile dirt, you know, it's it's the construction junkyard in that fence, and this new duplex is gonna be right there in there with it. You know? And also the place where the dust mitigation is not happening. One tenant will be displaced by this. Now it's interesting that it has been said that he's gonna qualify for the ADU.

So if you move him out and move him into that ADU, you are going to have all of phase two empty. You know, right now only three cottages are occupied. One of them is in phase two and two of them are in phase three. So they are almost empty at this point. And if you move the guy into the ADU, which he should get by right of the settlement agreement, even his is going to be open, and so they are all going to be empty.

You know, if you allow to and for to happen concurrently, that is going to be a mess. You know, and it's already been a mess. So, you know, as I said, we are going to be in the middle of this. And this prefab Japanese duplex was never a part of the cottages. You know, some of them have no windows.

Some of them very small windows. Maybe this one is different, but they are not historically aligned with cottages that are that are have been approved. The city's count the city council staff report for 07/12/2022 stipulates on page one sixteen number seven. It references the new cottage's duplex saying it will match the existing cottages, the existing ones, not the two that were torn down and rebuilt that were only supposed to be renovated. This is not a renovation project. This is tear down and rebuild project. In spite of what all of the documentation says is supposed to being done there.

Anita, you're three minutes.

You gonna let me go on? I'm the only one speaking representing the cottages.

I got one more speaker card.

You're gonna cut me off?

I mean, I it's been it's been a while.

Okay. Well, one more thing I'm gonna tell you

Just right yeah.

If you

go quick. This is not in alignment with the settlement agreement either, which says that the permits that the permits for the cottages are set to go. The plans don't need any changes. And it says that all of the parties that that settlement agreement is binding and final. But it says in there, there's no need for changes to any of the plans. So it looks like this might break the settlement agreement also.

Thank you, Nina. Next is Fran. Fran. Fran. I'm sorry. I couldn't read it. It's my fault.

Hello. I'm Fran or Fran. I live at the Mallory Way just above the cottages. And I don't have very many points. I don't have any points actually because I'm so exhausted by this whole situation. And I feel it's almost a moot point for any of us to even say anything because we're just the little people against the behemoth of the Becker group. So it doesn't really matter what our opinions are, it feels like. I'm against moving to phase four. That's all I gotta say. Try to protect the residents. Try to protect them. That's your job besides doing whatever

Tell them that we are not protected

at the

cottages like the staff report says. We're not rent protected. It says it

at this. Oh, okay. Well Alright.

Okay. I'm so exhausted by all this. All I wanna say is I'm against moving to phase four. I feel like a little teeny person against this whole big thing. And that really are my opinion doesn't really matter. Front, why why are you objecting to phase four? Because I just feel that isn't isn't what's happening enough for everybody? Like, there was an agreement, phase one, phase two, phase threes, phase four. Why? Why does it have to why does it have to move?

Everyone is so stressed out. People at the cottages, people at Mallory Way were all, like, walking around on eggshells, like, waiting. So just go by the plan. Go by the plan that was agreed upon when whenever it was. We've been at this for so many years. It feels unstoppable. So just go by the plan. Give us a breath. Let us just see it as it happens. We're already dealing with the destruction of the cottages amongst the flowers, which were historical and beautiful, and the last vestige of old Ojai that everyone just allowed to be torn down. It's all I have. Okay.

I have one more speaker card. Larry? No. He's on he's on item two. You're on item two, Bill. Is this one you wanted to talk about? This is item one.

I don't have trouble. Have trouble with numbers.

Okay. Did you want to speak on this one?

Number this is. I want

Oh, you wanna speak on it. Okay. Well, we we could either one either one. Yeah. Go ahead, Bill. If you can you had your card in first.

I'm not ready. Okay.

He's still writing.

Larry Steingold. When I read it, it makes sense to just move forward and get it all done as fast as possible and as simple as possible. And then you listen to what Anita write out a whole list of things. And are there any showstoppers? Is she right? Are any of those correct? Which ones are incorrect? Go down the list because you owe it to follow the rules and regulations and permits and whatever was agreed upon. And if somebody's deviating from the plan without permission or skimming or whatever the reasons is because it happens in development. It just, you know, you just do things.

Right? And it's like, well, okay. But are any of them the showstoppers? Don't know. Not my I'm not that familiar. Alright? But if they were to go to a hotel, I'm just you know, if they were all sent to El Roblar for two weeks and got it all done and they came back, would they be happy? I'm just saying, if this is if there's nothing here to stop the deal and it's gonna cause a big mess, then they're with the dust and the water and the whole cons because you're in the middle of a construction project. So is it easier and cheap and less expensive to move them out for a period of time and pay for their upkeep and pay for wherever they are? I'm not trying to spend this money.

But if that makes it easier and there's less aggravation, just get it done. Unless there's something here that's going to stop the project and derail it or do something that is gonna cause a ripple in the force.

Okay. Thank you, Appreciate it. Thank you, Larry. Alright, mister Meyer, you are up.

Hi. What number am I talking about?

You were talking about this.

Just one or two?

Number one.

Okay. My interest and concern is that the folks involved, the stakeholders involved can get together or have been brought together to discuss the issues that they have from a tenant point of view, from a contractor point of view, from a planning department point of view, from a city. And, I don't think that's happened. It doesn't sound like it's happened. So, I'm interested in seeing that a problem solving process has occurred, should occur or will occur, that results having the stakeholders express their concerns, their problems, their needs, their misunderstandings, their need to know more from the standpoint of the tenants and the contractor and the city.

So, I would like to see more of a consensus process here. And, I would hope that it might exist in this way, that there would be a list of over the months or the years of issues that have been brought to the attention of the city, the planning department, code enforcement, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, whatever. And, it would express the statement of the concernee, more likely the tenant, the situation that the city sees it as as to what the structure is and then the response from the contractor, here. And, all three parts look together. So, if there are trees that are not being cared for according to the tenant, the city says, they should be because it's right here.

And, the contractor says, we did, we had arborist. And, what was the result? Well, that column, there's nothing in that column, but there should be something in that column. That's what I would like to see out of this process. So, that the stakeholders come together, there's a big list of the concerns, which ones have been brought to the city, which ones have been looked at by code enforcement, what were the results of the findings, who was it reported to and what happened to it? Because it seems to me that we have a box and there's just a bunch of stuff in it and none of it seems to match up. That's the way I see it. Anyway, thanks.

Thank you Bill. Appreciate it.

Alright, have more time.

Sherry, is there anybody on line?

Yes. Teal Rowe.

Oh, Teal, you are you are all set.

Great. Thanks. Can you hear me?

We can hear you.

Great. Thank you. I appreciate, being able to be heard. I'm a 100% with all that Anita said, except for one of her points is that their the residents are the only ones are affected. I think that the entire city of Ojai is affected.

Two of you up there aren't aware of maybe what had happened with the settlement. So I highly, highly recommend going back to the settlement agreement and following it bullet point by bullet point based on what I just heard from Anita. Also, I'd like to say to the director that, you know, there's plenty of institutional knowledge floating around this town, this valley. Many of us have lived here our entire lives, and we would be happy, more than happy, to help you with any information that you know. The other thing is based on that, I do know that this is and it's on the record from before everything went down, this canyon is a wind river that feeds town.

It feeds our souls of Ojai. And the creek that's been plowed over and all the work that's been done on it is a flood zone that watches us clean when it's time. So the people that end up living, buying, renting, whatever the final thing happened turns out to be, I think that that needs to be remembered, disclosed. And I for you two and the two people on the board there, on the planning commission there, just wanted you to know that. So thank you for your time.

Thank you, Teal. Alright. Sherry, anybody else? No. Okay. Alright. We'll close public comment. Open it up for discussion.

I'd like to start by asking Lucas about the creek. It was my understanding that the state department was involved with the fish and wild whatever.

Fish wildlife.

And wildlife. Right. So, could you elaborate on that?

Yeah. So, to Anita's point, some the points that she has raised are correct. But, there are there are some clarification

Okay.

To to some of those points. The the creek piece in the in the environmental document, it identifies it not as a creek, not as a channel, but as a hand dug basically storm drain. And that was identified through Sequa and then went through the entire process from a legal standpoint. So, that's the record that we use moving forward. I mean, I understand that there's there's certainly very deep and rooted feelings towards towards other aspects, but that those are the facts.

I'm not coming forward bringing you opinion on some of this stuff, these are facts. So, that's that's the first piece. However, the thought was is is that there was not gonna be requirement for them to go through Fish and Wildlife. We still reached out to them, asked very clarifying questions, provided the notification, they came on-site and then identified that no, this in fact is a channel that does need to to have and go through their permitting process. So, that was that was new information for me and that was a lessons learned for me.

So, now we're going through and working with with Jeff to go through that process. Right? So, that stopped any work that's going forward for the for the channel. It's being referred to as a a drainage ditch for a channel at this point. Not a blue line stream. I know there was conversations about that early on. It's not a blue line stream.

Was it was it covered out of compliance?

Yes. Yes. Yes. So really So

it's covered.

If we're talking about yes. Thank you. If we're talking about compliance Mhmm. There should have been a permit process that went forward first, instead of coming forward after the fact with Fish and Wildlife. So, Fish and Wildlife has basically said, yeah, you've got to go through our process and get an agreement moving forward that'll Basically, it's a maintenance agreement is a way in which they've kind of described it to us moving forward.

Has that But they've been got

be a part of the process moving forward.

Has that been done?

So, we've not the city, but the but the applicant, the Becker Group has has reached out and has started that process. So, we're waiting to hear back from them in terms of what the timing is for that and the all the information that's required there.

What are the penalties for being out of compliance and

They didn't identify any penalties at this point. Think what they're wanting is an agreement at this point.

Fish and Wildlife?

Yes. Yeah.

Is it only out of compliance with Fish and Wildlife or are there other

Well, okay. So that's the first piece. I know there have been Related to

the channel, that's the only one.

Related to the channel. So let's shift gears to some other aspects, to the conditions of approval. In the very beginning, it was identified that there were some there were some work being done that wasn't consistent with the conditions of approval. So what what I basically ended up doing is bringing in Jan Skow. And he is a well known reputable arborist.

Now, Jeff and his team also have an arborist on-site. However, in situations like this, it really did kinda make sense to have somebody who was I'm not gonna be out there, I I don't know what I'm looking for. But I I know in having those conversations with a reputable licensed arborist, he'll be able to talk to me or she will be able to talk to me about what needs to be done. And that's been happening. That's been happening for the last several months.

So there's an arborist on-site regularly?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Anytime that there's work being done and if it's not, he makes that very well known through his reports that he provides at an infrequent basis.

So Jan Scout is working for

Representing the city, going out and making sure that that the work that's being done is consistent with the conditions of approval as it relates to the trees.

Okay. And what are the penalties for not complying with conditions of approval? Trees or otherwise?

Yeah. So there's a couple of different aspects that we could go through. One would be deciding them on-site and then and going through that. So the first citation With co compliance, the first citation is $50 and then it goes to a 100 and then goes to $2.50 basically. Yeah. And then it's $2.50 thereafter.

So this this is a it's a code compliance process usually handled through a complaint. You so

Yeah. The the only the only thing that concerns me, I know there was conversations about it going through code compliance. When it goes through that channel Mhmm. It becomes a matter of kind of protecting those that provided the complaint. Here, it's a matter of compliance with the conditions of approval. And we're looking at compliance and ensuring that those those conditions that that the the applicant and the developer in this case agreed to is is sticking to that.

So that's your office that is more or less responsible

Absolutely. For

Falls making sure that the development agreement is being followed.

Yeah. That's so you're talking about the settlement a piece but also married within what we're talking about here.

So, when when we say one, you know, avenue is citations, are there other penalties for being not in compliant with the settlement agreement?

Yeah. So, instance, if, and this happens even with co compliance cases, if if we have someone that is out of compliance and they're not willing to have conversations or come to the table, then we move and take more drastic measures. And those measures can be basically taking it for a public hearing and and removing any of the any of the approvals that may have gone forward for lack of of working with the city and remaining compliant with the conditions of approval. Here, as soon as as soon as Jeff's team realized in conversations that we had that there was some of these conditions that were out of compliance, they immediately were like, how do we get in compliance? Let's make sure that we're doing the things that are necessary.

And, at that point, I made the determination that I needed somebody that I trusted with an as an arborist to make sure. Because a lot of these conditions are very technical standpoint. Yeah. I mean, the work that's being done on-site to preserve and protect a number of these mature trees requires someone to be on-site regularly.

Right. So. So are they currently in compliance today?

Yes. Yes. Okay. They are in compliance. Now, you also have residents that are living in a construction zone. Is not an easy situation. Right? So, of course, they have eyes and ears on everything that's going on on a daily basis. The dust mitigation, absolutely. In the beginning, it was it was an issue. And they know that they're supposed to be watering twice a day. If they aren't, then we need to be made aware of that. If we're not made aware of it, then I don't know whether or not they're in compliance

or And out that's done through a complaint.

In addition to that, I have a building inspector out there on a regular basis.

Right. So But I guess I guess my point is if dust was a reoccurring issue, those should be complaints filed to the city from the residents. Right. And if they if there aren't complaints, you guys have no idea what's going on.

And I would say this, I know the residents that that are living there and the residents that are in Mallory Way have made us aware of it early on. Recently.

Right.

And it so then in in that case, we look at it as, oh, we're moving towards compliant or remaining in compliance. If it's not Right. We need to be be aware aware of that because at at the end of the day, these conditions of approval are are the reason why this project's moving forward.

Got it. Another quick question, the historic nature of the new Samoa Samara? I can't even

So the

Samara units.

The requirement was for the for each of these units to be documented. Yes. And each of these units were documented. Yes. And that was all done in basically 2018.

Okay. Before

all of the stuff that went forward with the project stopping and then litigation and then coming to the settlement agreement. So they were they were gearing up for the construction piece. And not only that, but the plans that that went forward do include these four phases. Yep. In addition to that, the plans also have a condition, condition number 27 that requires it it to come back to this body Mhmm. When phase four is being considered, which is the reason why this is coming forward. Right. Phase four is being considered. Now, granted it's jumping ahead, but it's still being considered. The reason why it's coming forward.

I have just one more question on oversight. Yeah. There's an arborist that is representing the city. You also mentioned someone else who's Oh,

Building inspector who's out there ensuring that the construction is being done in compliance with billing code.

Is the city overseeing this process in any other ways?

Oh, a third So we also have a grading engineer that's out in an infrequent basis to do inspections. Now, granted, they weren't out there for the initial creek restoration, but they're out there now.

I have a a question for the applicant, if you don't mind coming back

up. Yes.

Thank you. Sure. Let's say we approve phase phases two and four to be done concurrently. Is that going to speed up the timeline for finishing the Cottage Among the Flowers project? Will that delay the project? What's the timeline if we approve this versus going under original one, two, three, four phase timeline?

I would assume it would delay it a little bit because we'd have to wait to do some utility extensions.

Sorry, which way would delay?

If we were just gonna go ahead and do phase two then move to phase three to phase four.

But if we approve concurrently with moving forward with phases two and four it may speed up the timeline?

Yes. Jeff?

That's our expectation. What

what's the difference between doing two and four concurrently versus just pulling in and doing four first to you?

It's primarily the utility installations underground.

You need

Part of phase four because otherwise we're gonna When we get to phase four, we would then tie in Tear out. Yeah. Have to come kinda come back and tear up some areas. So that's that's really was the motivation for doing it. So we're, you know, not tearing up twice. And this site is an old site, right? So we're running when we did the storm drain upgrades which by the way was permitted by the city. I wanna make sure everybody knows that. We had city inspectors out there. We had public works out there.

It's been ten years, twelve years in the making. So, wasn't, it was all part of the Phase one portion of this. But we're if we wait to do Phase four the main thing is utilities underground we would be then creating more of a mess dust all those good things could be trenching.

Does it make a difference to you whether you would get the concurrent or moving phase four up? It sounds like two different plans are under consideration and I want to know if how it impacts you if we do one versus the other.

I mean, we'd like to do both of them together. We don't really wanna start phase two until we get phase one totally complete which is maybe a month and a half away. It's pretty close. And also we wanna relocate the tenant that's in the one unit that's still there. Scott assuming he's qualifies. So we're pretty close to starting phase getting ready to start phase two. But, it's fine if we do phase four. I mean, we're gonna prod along and get our job done. We're not stopping. We are not stopping.

So, and we've got a lot to accomplish. We've got three other sites and Mallory Way is the last one which is a very large project. This was going to give us a little bit of an example of what to do with Mallory, How to tackle that one? Because that's a difficult side.

I'm as this hearing that you need phase four to get the utilities dealt with.

That's the main thing because

it's And the fire lane.

Yeah. Right. I mean, there's a lot involved in doing the utilities, you know, you're trenching down substantially, couple feet in the ground and you're you're making a mess.

Some of the concerns obviously seem to be about just the activity on-site, which we can imagine Yeah. It's it's a tough so it seems like to do them concurrently would, you know, make that potentially worse. I wonder if if the idea or if it's more important to do phase four, you know, would we consider something that maybe allowed for just the utility work of phase two happening to get to phase four, doing phase four and then coming back and doing phase two.

So doing phase four first and then doing phase two?

Well, because that's one of the options. Right? Is phase four first or phase two and phase four concurrently. Yeah. To do it first Is that is that Or

you think Or

Is that right?

Due to utility stub and The utilities Not necessarily the structures putting

the structures buildings.

Right. Right. Yeah. That would be fine too.

Because that would give you time to do the the fittings to see if they work. Right. Yeah. See if the Samara

build Yeah. If we could if we could I mean, that would be fine. That would be fine. The the utilities is probably the critical part of it.

Yeah. Right.

It seems like to do it concurrently is gonna be the larger disturbance Yeah. For the neighbors and for existing tenants. And even if even the tenant who's there who moves to phase one, he's still living in a construction.

Yeah. He's right next door.

Yeah. Right.

There's no getting around that.

No.

It's it's close proximity.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And and four, I mean, obviously, you guys are gonna do the the smaller units. So it's not gonna require as much time I would assume as phase two, right?

Correct. Yeah, that's for sure. And it's built off-site. So you don't have all the construction noise from framing Right. Finish work and rock work and all the things that are involved in it.

And are you guys gonna be paving that that fire road or is that gonna remain like dirt?

Does get pavers which is if you walk the side you get some of those same pavers. Okay. The current drive.

That'll get rid

of a

lot of the dust.

Oh, definitely. Yeah. That has matting and base, road base and other goodies on there. But yeah, it it's a dust bowl.

So if you do the utilities plus four you can help eliminate some the dusts, help with some of the the construction at all at the same time happening staggered out a little bit.

Yeah. Does the does the path of sorry. The pavers, do go they all the way past where where the parking is at?

Yeah. It it I think on one of those schematics

Oh, the other?

Kinda shows as I remember. So there's some sections that's that shows the pavers.

Two little drawings here. So anyways.

It's it's similar to the drive area for phase one.

Assuming it goes to here. Those are the parkings. Yeah. Yeah. They go

There's some diagonal parking I think on the one on the north end.

Yeah. Yeah. Just as you say, the project's moving forward. It seems like how can we do it in the most, you know, sensitive way possible.

That's that's our goal.

Less disturbances the better. And I'm assuming the arborist for the phase four is the arborist already seen the side, he's already signed off.

Yeah. We have Bill Mellett as our arborist on the site.

On the site. Okay. Alright.

Cool. And we've, you know, we've tried to save some trees that actually were slated to be removed. We're definitely that was one of the reasons to try the Samara units also because it was it was gonna remove a bunch more oak trees. So, we're saving some more of those on that end.

Got it. Okay.

So, phase four is basically the utility work. That's a big part of it. And then it's a bunch of some amount of kind of grading and paving and prep. And then it's the foundation work and then bringing the smart units.

Yeah. Most of that grading has actually been done but there will be some for where the units will go. Yeah. The two SMART units. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But most of that has already been done with with part of the storm drain work.

Yeah. So I mean, the advantage I can see is that SMART units go in easier than a typical building if you're working. You can sort of be done with the adjacent property disturb or more far away from the adjacent property disturbances potentially sooner than later.

Yeah. Hopefully.

Okay. You ready?

Thank you.

Yeah. Thanks. What are we We're still in discussion. We we I mean Sure. I like I Go ahead.

No. I I I really like what you proposed. Okay. I think that takes into consideration what I was trying to get at and, helps alleviate, you know, a lot of the disturbance for Yeah. The existing residents.

And so We're not approving two concurrent Right. Right. But four with Four than two. Whatever work needs to happen for the utility work only. One, two. And then back to two and three.

Yeah.

I I think that makes a lot

of sense.

Moving four up. I mean did wanna Making four next.

Before we before we make a motion, I did wanna ask Lucas a question around the Chumash monitor. Has that been done? Is that all?

Yes. So, anytime there's any sort of trenching that still is required. Chumash has been out there before, it was out there in 2018, it was out there again Mhmm. Before the work was started for phase one. So, that has been an ongoing situation. The thought was is everything that took place in 2018 was good. However, in in talking with the applicant, they've agreed to have them out on infrequent basis is when work's being done.

Okay. Alright.

Before we make the motion, I just wanted to speak to the public real quick. Yeah. For the the residents, Cottage Among the Flowers, I think you're the eyes and the ears for the city on the ground. The city is going to, you know, continue to believe that the applicant is in compliance with the settlement agreement unless they hear something. Right. And so, you know

Can I make a little comment?

No. Now is not the time.

Oh, well, could And

and what I'm trying to do is let you know that it's up to you to be able to bring it to the city's attention if something is out of compliance. And so Yep.

I would say The city has responsibility here too. Okay. I I agree. This happen. Yeah. Let's let's not have feedback from the public but

My apologies for that. I just feel like it's important for the public to know what their roles and responsibilities are here as we continue to move forward this project.

No. 100%. I think we do need to have the official there needs to be an official complaint process that's followed Correct. If there are issues. And if that needs to just continue as is and if we haven't gotten any complaints and the city assumes things are moving along.

There was there was a comment made by Alright. Let's Mister

Can we not talk, please? Mister Miley.

Complaints at you right now.

Just Please. There was a

You're being disruptive

Yeah.

And we can ask you to leave if this continues.

That's what you need to do. Okay.

Then can you leave? Could you leave? If you can't if you can't quiet down and not disrupt the meeting, then you have to leave.

I have a point of order.

Go ahead, Bill.

Is it possible to reopen the public hearing on issues that are very contentious? Why?

I I know what the benefit would be.

I I don't see a benefit either. The the commission is prepared to make a motion. Commissioner Graham was speaking to the public so they were aware of the complaint process. And then now we have disorder. So I would recommend that the hearing stays closed within your discretion. You you may open it, but public comment has been concluded.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's a need for that.

Thank you, I

did wanna just offer up, mister Miley brought up an interesting point which is kind of what we've done with the planning commission in past when we know that there are anticipate that there's gonna be a lot of contention from the community. Mhmm. And we've done it in a two part process where we take in those that public input and then from that respond to it either in the staff report or create an FAQ of frequently asked questions. Hearing the concern that were raised by the community, I can certainly add to the already existing FAQ and post it on the website as as we've done in the past. So

Thank you.

I would offer that up and you can make that a part of your motion as That was something we'll continue to do. Sure.

You'll send it to us. Right?

It'll be on the website and I can certainly send it to you individually. Yes.

Thank you. Okay.

Thank you.

Don't wanna check the website every day.

Just saying. Alright. Alright. So let's make a motion to move forward with phase four.

Then Then phase. Phase two.

And add. And then phase three. Frequently.

No. Utility work?

Yeah. If That's part of

That's part of

phase four.

Phase four.

Okay. Right. Yeah.

And and his frequently asked.

Oh, and to include

the frequently asked questions. To add on to the frequently Yes.

Yeah. I'll second that motion. Alright. Sherry? Chesley? Yes. Graham? Yes. Murphy? Yes. Trent? Yes.

Motion passes. Okay. Time to move on. Will we take a break? Yeah.

Take a quick five minute break, and we'll move on to the BAB. Oh, thank you, sir. I appreciate