City Council - Special Meeting

The Thursday, June 11th special meeting of the Ohio City Council.

Roll call, please. Mayor Gilman. Here. Mayor Pro Tem Meng.

Here.

Council Member Rule.

Here.

Council Member Lang.

Here.

Council Member Woodman. Here.

And would you lead us in the pledge, please? Of course.

Thanks. Mayor, Honorable Council, ready to begin. I pledge allegiance.

you. So on the agenda, an unusual proposition, we have some folks here who wish to speak. We also have some folks here for the closed session. So if the council is open to this, we could take the public comments on the the agenda item here, the concept review, let them leave, go into the closed session and then come back on that piece if that's okay. Okay, that seem okay.

make you wait yeah I mean in other words having them yeah you're talking about going into the closed session first yes no oh they comment they comment and then we go into the close then we go into closed session then we come back and discuss the chairs which means I have to hang out that it would mean that that's great or or come back

Or come back. Yeah, I understand. Don't do anything, but wait to come back.

I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking of the public comment parts, but you're right, that does impact you. So we need not do it.

It does impact me. I understand. I do have plans. Got it.

Okay, no, that's fair.

That having been said. Sure.

Are you sure?

I mean, you know, it's a burden to me. I understand. But I don't want it to be a burden to them as well. So, I mean, I was very specific about looking at the agenda and making sure my plans.

We could text you like 10 minutes before we think we're going to start. Happily.

And I can come back from the beach in Ventura. Oh, no, that wouldn't. Yeah, okay. I mean, I can do that. Let's just go ahead and we will accommodate our audience.

Thank you. That's generous of you. Any other changes to the agenda? Okay, thank you for that. Okay, so we will take the public comments on our concept review, placement of chairs and other personal property within the right of way. Do you wanna say a few words or anything?

Just to keep it really brief, yeah, just so that there's some context if anybody watches this later. Thank you. We're here for an open session concept review discussion. If the council would like to provide some direction, not for this meeting, but at a future time, for the city to consider taking some type of action or establishing a policy or creating an ordinance regarding the placement of chairs and other items in the public right-of-way in and around the time frame of the 4th of July. The reason why we're here, I've only been here for a couple years, folks, but I have seen the timeline of the placement of the chairs get longer and longer and longer. As city manager, I certainly have the authority to go out there and round them all up because they are in the public right-of-way. However, little context, I had a similar situation when I was city manager in Pacific Grove with beach blankets on the beach and the 4th of July ceremony or the celebration there. I did round them up one year. And it was not a good move. So I think policies like this need to be discussed in public, council needs to take the lead, and then I would implement if the council decides to do anything, and that's why we're here. Thank you.

and let us know who you are. Thank you for this opportunity. I'm Gail Birch, and thank you, Andy, Ben, Weston, and new friends. Okay, anyway, I met Ojai about 50 years ago, fell in love immediately, knew I would raise my family here, knew I would never leave. Well, you know, I'll probably leave sometime, but that happens. But anyway, Ojai, What I loved about it was its beauty, its small townness, its kind people, and the character and the characters who lived here. And I felt like I belonged here. And I've gone to just about every Fourth of July parade. I have never brought a chair with me. still i'm always excited to see when the first chair will show up and i love it because she shows me that i live in this quirky town that is not every town usa and i just wanted to say thank you for listening that's it okay and i hope you go with my plan thank you thank you carol come up

And I think the chairs should be put out on the 15th of July. I think the first, in my opinion, because I live down... You mean the 15th of June? You said July. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yes, okay. You know what I meant. Okay, okay, okay. You're listening there. Yeah. So I think it's too soon to have it on the 1st of June. I live at Whispering Oaks, and I have to drive up that street. And now there's this great big white chair. I thought it was a junk chair. I thought somebody was going to come haul it away. And then I realized they had put it there for the 4th of July. And I thought, no, that's a little too much, too early. So that's my opinion. I'm glad they're there. I don't know, is it because we think tourists There's more tourists coming that are going to gobble up the spaces. And so the residents have to claim their space quicker. I don't know what the thinking is behind so early. But 15th is fine with me.

Thank you. Any comments online? No raised hands, Mayor. But we do have one participant.

I just want to do a temperature check in here. If we thought we could do this in 20 minutes, then I might suggest we just keep the order. Do you see my point? If we thought that was possible.

I'm not talking anymore.

I mean, I don't know how detailed. You've got to bring it back anyway, so we can just give some direction. Yeah, if it's OK, and then you can go.

No, I mean, I think we could do it.

Yeah, I mean, I'm fine. Okay, no, I know you're fine. Yeah, thank you for the accommodation. It's hot out there, the beach is calling. For sure. You know, it's all good.

I think we understand the issue pretty well.

So can we go into then the discussion? Sure, I think we're in discussion. Okay.

When I saw the first chair come out this year, I thought, my immediate thought was, oh, you know, wish I'd brought this up sooner let's let's see if we can get this on calendar to talk about next year since then I discovered that there actually is a threat safety that's being created by the chairs and so we have to maybe look at it potentially take actions so I you know I'm interested I my thought I talked to a bunch of people would be that that one week before the 4th of July would be a reasonable date to allow people to bring their chairs out and before that but what I you know the thing that I heard about this is that so the chairs are out there and then hooligans or knocking them over, you know, into the right-of-way, the person who left the chair isn't, like, taking responsibility for maintaining them after they leave them. And so I'm interested if there's a reasonable provision that after granting this kind of one-period permission, they actually have to take responsibility for the chair's while they're there.

Let's just go in. What do you think about that?

I think like a week or so seems like it would be sufficient. Like he says with those chairs, I noticed in front of OUSD, there's probably 15 or 20 chairs that are all roped together. So I don't know. You feel bad like limiting the amount of chairs? I don't know. I don't know about having the people that place the chairs be responsible because then they'd have to go down numerous times a day because kids are kids and it is summer break. So I don't, and then I'm wondering if it should be limited to just like camping folding chairs, you can't bring a couch, you can't do, somebody said something and I thought it was pretty clever and I didn't think about it. Okay, so the people with the couches that are out there, 4th of July, to take a photo of those sitting on the couch, because most likely it's theirs and when it's not removed and it's the city's responsibility to haul it away, you can come back, but I'm sure it's more than just that. I would sit on the couch up there, but that's what I think.

So in the sampling I did, it settled on two weeks in advance, some were earlier, some were closer to the time, two weeks in advance, and that if there were any instances reported that it was in the right-of-way or we saw them, they would be removed. and that there would be a public communications effort that would start right away that would be on Facebook and Nextdoor and our website and all that to say, this is what we're agreeing on. If they're in the right of way, we're going to take them. We have to.

There has to be a right of way.

And, yeah, the difficulty, if anything is left, that we would try to document it. But as far as the number and who it is, that seems harder. This year seems a little hard because then we have to figure out what do we do with the chairs that are there now. I mean, I guess we could ask people to take them for a couple weeks, I suppose. In any case, that's where it settled for me. I like the nostalgia of it, too, but the walkways have to be okay. That's the fact.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I think I agree with what was shared in our public comments and in some of the written ones that we had, that this is a tradition. Nothing says summer in Ohio like the chairs. So I'm good with two weeks. I mean, Lynn, our public works director, gave a pretty compelling case for having the policy in place and for the accessibility concerns and the challenges, the burden on the public works. the staff. So I would, I would be okay with, I would be okay with one week, I'd be okay with two weeks. But I think limiting it is something that we need to do. And then also that what you suggested about having being having the ability to remove any chairs that were that were in the right of way.

Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with one week or two weeks. I kind of skewed towards one week because I think that's enough time. And I think, you know, we need to also make it the chair owner's responsibility to keep it out of the right of way and let them know if it is in the right of way. I mean, that's part of the condition of allowing this to happen is that you take responsibility for keeping it out of the right of way. Okay. So I would say that, that I would put that on the chairperson, you know, who's ever putting the chair out. And, you know, yeah, if it's in the right of way and we're going to, you know, remove it or push it out of the right of way, whatever we're going to do. So, yeah, I can go either way. I think one... I understand two weeks, too. It's like people have this feel, you know, and if it's not in the right of way, if we already have a precondition that it can't be in the right of way, then two weeks is okay. So, you know, I'm six of one, half dozen of the other on the time. I see both reasons why two is good and why one is also good, so.

Mr. Harvey, I'm just wondering though, if we were gonna try something this year, how would that be implemented? Because we're bringing this back on the 23rd.

We'd have to, unless you called another special meeting next week, which you could. That might be the best bet. I'm just looking at the calendar. I mean, one thought is, okay, so a week away from the fourth is the 27th of June. One thought, and I'm not saying this is the way to go. We had a special meeting next week. Maybe, sorry, not maybe. I could bring back a draft policy. I'm envisioning a policy saying, you can set your chairs out up to one week in advance of the event, up to. So that would be starting on the 27th, which is a Saturday. Ensuring that there's ADA access in the right of way. So that means I might have to also provide some, I'd have to talk to the city attorney about that because some people are gonna need measurements, right? You're really not, here's the part where I'm struggling, right? You're not supposed to put stuff in the right of way.

So this is a thought that I have, and I don't know if it's feasible at all. But what if we had a no-fee permit process where we had all of this, the parade route mapped out, and somebody can come in and reserve their spot starting on some date, and that spot gets taped off So there's nothing in the right of way, but they have the right to bring their chairs and expect that it's going to be vacant.

Well, I like that idea. If you did something like that, that's a good idea. You wouldn't even need to tape it off because we would be controlling. Well, yes, we probably would tape it off, but we would control it and we would only allow the placement. I would say looking at what other cities.

I'm sorry to interrupt. But the one thing I would mention is that there we would want to take a quick look and we can do this before this would come back at another special meeting at the arrangement with the with Caltrans, because there may be some limitations on issuing a formal like a formal permit. But, you know, we I think the the other thing I would recommend is that. Both Caltrans and the Americans with Disabilities Act include requirements related to width in order to maintain accessibility for people who may have accessibility challenges. And so I think if we were to do something like what the city manager is suggesting, that maybe we identify what the width would be, the minimum width, that has to be maintained. And so that way, at least, not that every resident will be out with a tape measure, measuring the width or the area that would remain, but at least there's some, Some guidance we can provide. So if there's a segment of sidewalk that's particularly narrow. You know, people may have some notice that that may not be an appropriate place for a chair.

So, I, I totally understand everything that's being said, and I would. It would sat in me to see a go personally, not to say that that's the right call. I would be sad if there weren't chairs out there before.

But it has to be safe.

Well, I think we're kind of illustrating why the city doesn't have a policy right away. And it's really it's against everything that we normally we don't allow people to leave items in our park. We don't allow people to. So. We have to really think about that. But what we could do, I'm thinking probably the best solution is I could work with the city attorney. We could come up with some options for you to select from. I think the only thing I would need from you, I don't recommend coming back on the 23rd because, like I said, that's not enough time. You have a very full agenda. Would you be able to commit to a special meeting on this hot topic next week? On the 16th? Or some other day, whatever. I don't know what your schedules are next week.

Well, if we were going to meet on the 16th, we actually could take the full agendas and spread them out just a hair.

Oh, you mean have another additional full-blown? Well, I'm not saying full-blown. I'm saying you could put one or two. Okay. Have a night meeting on the 16th, potentially.

So two meetings on the 16th?

No, no, no, I'm saying.

We don't currently have a meeting on the 16th.

So we'd add a meeting and the mayor is suggesting we possibly address one additional matter. And if it wasn't more than one, I'd be. We can keep it short. We can keep it short.

I'm not going to be here, but I can zoom in.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm okay with that. Okay. So we're going to, Wesson, we're looking at a special meeting on the 16th, 6 p.m. start time. We know we have one council member who's going to provide us with an address so that she can zoom in. And it'll be up to two topics. One will be continuation of this chair item. We'll have a different agenda report with some options for you. And then Mayor, I will talk with you offline, looking at the working agenda as to what might be a logical additional item to add in there.

Just a quick question. What do you guys feel about, I know it's funny to see the couches in the big living room furniture,

I think that's part of what we need. That went a little far. That goes a little far, I thought. Some of the items are enormous.

It's going to be hard. I mean, anything that's too hard for our public works group to move.

Right. So this should become what comes back to me.

Anything that requires a truck and two strong men, or women.

Or did they just dump it? Well, that's the thing. So then, just thank you for that. That sounds like a good plan. But the ideas will be a timing policy, what to do with the chairs that are in place right now, et cetera, et cetera. Because if it was the 23rd and the two weeks in advance, I mean the 16th, and if the timeline were two weeks in advance, that's almost there. right so this might be not a takeaway any chairs this time for next year well I'm just I'm yeah I'm open but the takeaway of the chairs is going to be tricky before that meeting on the

So we have a social media post designed. Yeah, we should issue something that identifies that if you've got chairs out there and they become an impediment, they're at risk of being removed.

So we already have a draft ready to go. We wanted to wait for this discussion, so that's helpful. We can put that out as early as tonight.

Let's do that.

Norm, is that sound? Okay, Norm is on that.

Does anybody disagree with that? Okay, that sounds good.

Okay, all right, thank you. Okay, thank you.

Thanks for coming. It's really quick, yeah, come up here, though. But we don't want to go into a back and forth, just say your piece, yeah. Okay, okay.

I'm an organizer, and I'm thinking, whatever you decide, someone should print a one sheet and put it on all those chairs before this comes, like, July 3rd.

Thanks.

Put it on everybody's chair. Also, have you checked with any other city what they do?

It's more stringent than us. In regards? Yes, we have. It's the night before. Right. Nobody allows this.

Everybody else just put their chairs up the night before?

Yeah, that's what Pasadena does. Wow.

We're very interesting.

We're liberal and progressive and interesting. Yeah, we go midnight at the night.

Okay. So you have what you need? Yes. Okay, and there was no, okay, I think we're done with that issue then. Thank you for the quick work and the media posts, and we will go into the closed session. Thanks. Thanks, everybody. Please.

Yes, we have one item to report out of closed session. In the closed session, the council authorized the city's intervention in the burn versus rule litigation. Thank you, and with that, we're adjourned.