City Council - Regular Meeting

to order the study session meeting of March 16, 2026. Members of the public are invited to attend in-person city council meetings in council chambers on the lower level of city hall. Public access to tonight's meeting is also available on the local government access channel 8 for Comcast subscribers on the city's YouTube channel online and by telephone using the call-in numbers posted on the meeting agenda. Will the clerk please call the role? Mayor Lightidy here. Mayor Prom Lukeman Hiramasa here. Council member Burns here. Council member Severs here. Council member Condo here. Council member Roer here. Council member Goff here. Council member Noiki

here. Council member Lighty here. Thank you.

All right. We have three items on the study session tonight. The first one is water supply and drought overview. Director of public works Sarah Borgers will present the overview. Good evening. All right. Is this better? Hey, so you're starting to see things on the news. Um, and we also are starting to hit that kind of elevated awareness. Um, and so we're going to go through a few things. I have the button. I have control here. So, we're going to go over the city's water supply. So, where does our water come from? And, uh, an overview of our current drought conditions. So, agenda for tonight. First, we'll go through our water supply. Uh, just a very high level where does our water come from. Uh, then we've got a drought management plan that was approved in 2021. We're going to go through some of the basics of that. uh go through current drought conditions, what we're currently doing to be prepared should we need to elevate our drought stage um and next steps. All right. So, we get our water primarily from Stanley Lake. Uh Stanley Lakes over on the west side of Westminster. There is a pipeline that we share with the city of Thornton that brings water all the way from Stanley up to our water treatment plant here in North Glenn. We do have some other storage buckets, various things. I know there's some questions about our ASR project which will eventually play play into this as well. Um but primarily when

we're talking about how much water do we have, we're looking at Stanley Lake. So how does water get to Stanley Lake? So, if you look, I'm going to try the thing here. Yeah. So, there's Stanley right here. You can see North Glenn right there. So, all of this blue area is our watershed. That's the Clear Creek wershed. Uh when we're talking about snow snowpack, usually we're talking about the NRCS has a couple of snowtail stations. One is on Bertha Pass, so as you're going over to Winter Park. The other one's at Loveland going up over the pass that direction. So they're looking at those two snowtel sites along with some other metrics to make predictions about how much water is in our wershed. Um so right now we're looking at snow. Eventually that'll be rain that will fall into the basin flow down uh Clear Creek and you see these little green buttons there. Those are actually water quality monitoring stations. And it's so rare I get to show this map. I wanted to show that we do have a series of water quality monitoring stations up Clear Creek. We have a program we share with the cities of Westminster and Northland um or Thornton. And um if there's ever a fire in the wershed, that is one of the ways that we can monitor water quality. if there's ever a spill in Clear Creek. Unfortunately, we do regularly see people driving off into the creek and so we get notifications of that and we use those water quality stations to monitor. All right. So, that's kind of where our water comes from at a really basic level. Um, the drought management plan we currently have in place was approved in 2021. when it was implemented, we actually implemented, and this was before my time, so I use the Wii collectively, uh,

implemented a drought stage one. That drought stage one was never lifted. It was left in place in order to promote conservation. Um, one note about the numbering system. So, Northland calls stage one drought voluntary. You may have heard Thornton implemented stage one drought for them. That's a mandatory restriction. So the numbering for all the different communities, it makes it nice and easy to communicate for us. A stage one is voluntary. Stage two is mandatory. And that's really kind of that stage one, stage two is where we're feeling things are at right now. Um in addition to stage one and stage two, we have uh stage three and stage four. Those are really for emergency purposes. We make plans to never be there. However, we want to make sure that we are prepared should that ever be needed. Uh so a stage three would be a a turf ban and stage four is uh emergency rationing. So ex you know just what we need to drink and shower and flush toilets. All right. So digging down just a little bit. I will also say that our comm's team is working on a communication plan. So, the stage one graphics you're seeing here was me doing stuff in PowerPoint. We've got some fancy new graphics that you'll be seeing come out that'll be colorcoded and the whole thing. So, uh stage one, where we're currently at right now is voluntary restrictions. The primary goal of stage one is education and outreach, getting people really thinking about conservation, where their water comes from, how to be used uh use water wisely. Um, typically when we're talking about stage one, there's maybe a potential for not filling Stanley, our storage in Stanley. Maybe there's a drought monitor of a D1 or greater. And I'll show you the drought monitor graph

here in a minute. And there's perhaps a below average snowpack andor stream flow forecasts. We're kind of sitting there right now. Um the stage two would be the next step in this process. Uh the primary goal for stage two is to start making meaningful impact to reduce water consumption. So indicators here would be there's a strong indication that our storage in Stanley's not going to fill. uh US drought monitor of D3 or greater drought conditions are expected to persist and well below average snowpack stream or stream flow forecasts. So outlined in the plan is a number of responses. So should we need to move forward with a stage two drought uh we would be talking about two-day per week watering schedule mandatory uh reduction in city consumption. So, we are one of our own biggest water users with parks and the like. And so, um, our parks department is working hard on a plan there. Uh, strong communication strategy. A lot of this is education. None of it works if if customers don't know what we need them to do. Uh, prohibition of installing new turf, commercial car washing only, and a drought sir charge is part of the code as it is today. And like I say, stage three and stage four, these are really emergency kind of levels. Um, I put them on the same graph because we're not really talking about those two today. All right. So now into the current conditions. Um, so when you see uh D3, so you see these red dots. So, we're of course right in here, right in that current bullseye. And you also see

this works sort of well um that our watershed. So, we're looking at those two stations that are right in there. Both of those two are in D3. Now, I did look this morning and that bullseye right here over the top of us has decreased to a D2. Um, and so it's a little bit of good news. D2 is also not great, but it's better than D3. And so this is sort of a double whammy of what we're seeing. So one, you have a drought happening in the mountains, so there's not as much snow that can come in and fill Stanley Lake. At the same time, we're experiencing drought conditions here locally, which means, have you all if any of you have yards, you're starting to get the itch to turn your irrigation system on. It's only March. That's feeling uncomfortable. And so, not only we not bringing as much water in, we're tending to use more water. All right. So, I just mentioned those two snowtail sites. We make estimates. NRCS makes estimates about how much water is actually in the watershed. So when you hear people talking about sui or storm snow water equivalent, you can have this much snow that has a little bit of water or this much snow that's really heavy and you can tell that when you're shoveling it. Uh this makes that like 12 inches of snow actually translate into inches of wet water. Uh this the top blue line is the maximum that we've seen back to 1991. Um, and that's like a daily maximum. The green line in the middle is the median. So, kind of you can think of it as average snow pack that we usually see in Clear Creek. And then that bottom red line is the minimum that we've seen since 1991.

That black line is where we are sitting today. So, that's not a good sign for us. Now, this was from right there. It's from the sixth. We did get a small bump, but we're still buried pretty deep into the red portion of the graph. Um, so there's not much up there. There is a chance that we will get some more, but for the moment, it's not looking very pretty. So, in that regard, looking out in our seasonal forecasts, so these all come from Noah. uh on the left is how much precipitation is expected and on the right is temperature. So on the left you can see there's a higher than likelihood chance that we will get below average precipitation. On the right we are expecting to see based on this a higher potential that we'll have above average temperatures. Those things together are not what we would like to see in this situation. All right. So, why have we not already declared a drought? We're seeing all this stuff. One of the interesting and challenging things about uh water in Colorado is that November through February when we're really thinking about snowpack, those are actually our driest months of the year. Um we've I think all been here long enough to know March through May is when we get the big snowstorms. we get the 18 inches of snow. And so there's a lot that can happen in March through May. And so the balancing act of do we declare drought restrictions or not is taking this information into account with all of the other data points. I think there was a question about is there um this all feels very qualitative mean right not very quantitative and some of that is there is hard numbers

and there's also this projection that turns into a little bit of an art of where is our storage going to be this summer. So typically we will see our highest storage values in June. Um by the time we're in June we're already halfway through the irrigation season. Um, so we're having to make decisions about what our water supply will be kind of early in the process. So, neighboring communities, uh, Thornton, you have likely heard, declared mandatory watering restrictions, uh, last Monday. Uh, Broomfield has issued a drought watch. There are number, you'll hear them, Denver Water and Aurora are really considering drought watch. I think everyone's in this like elevated awareness. Um I think Thoron may not be the last one to implement mandatory watering restrictions. Um but we're going to wait and see what March holds for us. So just summarizing current conditions, drought conditions are persistent uh and have potential to worsen. We are in the elevated awareness area right now. Um, important to keep in mind what happens March through May can have a significant impact on where we are at in terms of drought restrictions or not. If we stay where we're at, we probably are looking at the need to declare drought restrictions. Um, but if we get a big snowfall event turns everything around, there's always that possibility. So, with that in mind, staff has been working for the last month or so, getting everything up to speed, making sure should we need to declare a stage two drought that we're prepared to do that. Um, so we're of course watching the conditions closely. We have a team

that does water supply planning. Uh, that's a team of three, about to be two. Um, but they're keeping a close eye on that. The drought committee is a group of staff members from across the city, public works, economic development, planning, um you name it. It's a kind of a broad group of people that end up being impacted by the drought declaration. And so we want to make sure that we're getting together and communicating and providing a coherent response u particularly for outward communication and strategy. uh communication plan is being developed for early season outreach that's pretty well done. Uh and the conservation program is going to be ramping up for the season. Uh so you'll see uh that during the see I'm skipping ahead. Uh the message that we're hoping for outward communication after this meeting and through April will include things like we're experiencing dry conditions. help us help you use water wisely. Um, what are best practices for water use? And then providing as much conservation resources as we're able. So, best practices, what does that mean? Um, so we're going to ask folks if they can hold off watering until May 1st, that makes a difference. I know that's hard. uh watering those highv value landscape aspects. So trees and bushes, those sorts of things. Water those sparingly, but those are things that are, you know, high value. Um so you can water those. Watering during the evening and in the at night and in the morning. Uh so not in the heat of the day. Avoid washing sidewalks and patios. And if you've got water leaks, now's the time to fix them.

All right. So, our communication plan has a few avenues. One, we're putting together an FAQ. We have a bunch of different people that interact with our community, ranging from utility billing to our meter readers. Even our streets crew often interacts with the community because they come out and have questions. And so, we want to make sure that staff is able to give clear and consistent information. Uh we'll have that both in English and in Spanish. Uh if we do declare a drought, um our communications team has talked about making business cards with QR codes. So there'll be a little bit of ba basic information on the cards. You can snap the QR code and that will send you to our drought page where you can get more information. Uh social media campaign website update with a prominent banner at the top. Um and then our connection newsletter. So the connection newsletter April will be conservation focused. still have all our conservation programs. May would be if there is a drought declaration, it would be information on that. So, um, next step, we do have communication firms supporting our comprehensive communication plan. Our parks wreck and culture team is doing a fantastic job. I've been really grateful. Sometimes different places you get different excitement about um watering restrictions from your parks crew. They have data pulled out. I was talking to their manager and he's got a whole spreadsheet pulled up. So, they're going to be working really hard to hit some pretty demanding conservation goals in parks. Uh our water supply operations team, we want to make sure we get every drop of water we can into Stanley Lake and that we can use the water. There's some legality for how we can use that water. We're doing some things to make sure every drop of water is available to us. And then our operations teams have

changes in how they do things. So, we're working on that. So, potential future conversations. So, we're prepared. If you have questions, certainly we can uh answer those tonight. If it's something that's worth additional conversation, we're here and available to to be there for that. Um, we have I, this is me, I put April 27th as a potential drought declaration. That might be more beneficial to move to April 20th so that we can get that messaging into the connection. Otherwise, we've passed those deadlines. So, um, we've talked about April 20th here. If you want more information, uh this is just some some uh pulled out of our municipal code 16-23 mandatory watering restrictions. So, city council would declare the drought. Um current code includes limiting lawn watering, water waste prohibited, power washing house your house and fence and sidewalks, serving water at restaurants prior to a customer request. new lawn installation. Um, those would all be prohibited. Uh, implement public education program, which is what we're working on now. Uh, prohibit or regulate water for new construction. And then that water searchcharge. So, this is all within code. This is certainly city council's perview. If you like this or don't like this, this is this is um certainly within your realm to change if this is um any of this that you would like to. And then right now our drought page is getting up and going. You can go to northlenn.org/d uh and that will get you to a drought our drought page where you can learn

more, get connected with conservation resources, um see what the drought management plan says, all that kind of thing. I'm happy to answer questions.

Excellent. Uh Council Member Burns. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, I I know like March through May usually we do get our biggest snowstorms, but it's also going to be 90 degrees on Friday. So, I just I am hopeful, but I don't really think that's happening for us to be perfectly honest. Um, also they just declared it's going to be like a super El Nino year. um that was like all over social media this weekend and the news and it's basically exclaiming doomsday drought for the whole entire southeast of the United States. Um so while I get like we're cautiously optimistic, I am glad we have a plan B in place because I'm and I'm usually a glass half full kind of gal, but just not about this at this moment. Um, so thank you for bringing this forward. I think it's important to start talking about now.

Thank you. Council member Condo.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Uh, thank you, Director Borders, for um the presentation and answering my question over the weekend. I I did forward your response to the rest of the days, so they should be aware. Uh I I do have another question though based off of what you presented and uh I was hoping that maybe uh Tammy Moon would be here, our water expert, but I'm I'm going to ask you nonetheless. So obviously we have a certain water right of acre feet of of water. And so I'm assuming receiving that volume of water happens in a very discreet time of year, namely around the spring. Is that correct? We open the gate, water diverts into our channel and then it flows down to Stanley Lake and that packet of water is essentially sitting in Stanley Lake for us to draw off of. Is that kind of how that works?

It is. It is. And what's interesting for North Glenn is that a lot of a lot of our water is actually coming in in the wintertime and uh there will come a point where our water the the ditch connecting us to the creek will shut off and there'll be a millisecond in time where we're not bringing in any water. And so you you'll watch our our water supply will actually come up and then it'll it'll plateau and come down a little bit and then some of our other water rights come on. Um, that's a little bit of what we're really watching is those water rights, our church ditch rights, and some of the birthed water we bring over from the west slope. We're not certain how much we're actually going to get out of that. So, our second peak in the summertime is what we're we're really watching.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, that was kind of where I was going was I was just trying to figure out, do we get our bullets of water all in the spring or does there multiple times during the course of a summer? Uh, sounds like it's the latter, not the former. Mhm. check. Thank you. Appreciate that.

So, I'm going to interrupt for just a second because we have a new platform and I'm getting questions. Um, it is very cool because on my screen your hands are going up in order, which is super helpful for me. So, I see the one, the two, the three. But we are noticing that the person who raises their hand, their hand doesn't show. So, they're not sure if they're raising it. So, they're raising it and lowering it and raising it and lowering it because it doesn't show on their screen. I'm just talking to our tech team. So, I just wanted you to know that because it's puzzling people. So, if you've clicked it, I see it and I see it in order. Um, so don't worry about that and maybe we'll figure that out later. Well,

yeah, just lean over to the person next to you. Yeah, because you can see you can see everyone else's hands in order, but not your own. What do you get, Jody? It gives you a little It gives you a little Oh, wait. Josh can see his but I couldn't see mine. It's a whole thing confusing people. But I I see them all. So, just know that. And I see them all in order. Do you see your own? You see yours? Yep. Oh, so it's not a consistent thing. I think we're going to troubleshoot this right now. Sorry. You get a little thing that says you're fed. Yeah.

Yeah. I I think it's okay. It looks very cool on my end. So, and it's working quite well. So, thank you. I know he's ready because he's next. Uh, Council Member Severs. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um just to clarify for residents when it you guys talk about commercial car washing only it'll car washes will be able to operate but you will not be able to just wash 100 cars in your driveway. Correct. That that is right. Commercial car washes many of them not all of them have water recycling as a built-in as a part of their process which is one thing that makes it better for us.

That's that's good to know. And I'm also very pessimistic about spring. Uh we've had since I've been here, we've had two very wet springs, but I don't feel it this time. Council member Noiki. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Uh thank you, Director Borgers, for being here. Always interesting when we talk about water. Um, so I I am curious what conclusions did Thornton come to that led them to kind of mandatory restrictions,

right? So Thorton will be looking at very similar things to what we are looking at. They of course have water in Stanley Lake. Um they also have South Plat water. So um they will also in addition to the Clear Creek uh um um area, they will also be looking at the upper south plat area. Um, so they've just got some slightly different water supplies, but they're looking at the same drought monitor. They're looking at Clear Creek, very similar to what we are. Um, and they're looking at their um, storage level and their anticipated storage level um, this year and and into the future.

Okay. Um, and maybe maybe you addressed this and I zoned out. Um, what specific snowpacker kind of streamflow thresholds would trigger a stage two recommendation? uh the the indicators listed are kind of qualitative. Is there kind of a quantitative trigger?

So if you look in the drought management plan, there is a quantitative trigger in uh in terms of what is the storage level on June 1st going to be at Stanley Lake. And so from the drought management plan, if it's six, so our maximum is close to 7,000 acre feet. Um I use the word acre feet, that's exactly what it sounds like. Think of a football field, an acre that's one foot deep of water. That's what an acre foot of water is. Um, so about 7,000 acre feet is full. If we're at 6,000 acre feet, that would be a drought stage one. And 5,000 acre feet would be a drought stage two. Now, that said, that's on June 1st, and we will likely have to make this decision end of April. And so a lot of it then becomes looking at all the different factors that go into do we think that by June 1st we will hit this marker or not. Um right now that's not looking optimistic that we will hit um have enough water to not declare a stage two unless we get some big precipitation.

Um okay and I guess that's a nice segue. Are you able to say kind of the Stanley Lake storage right now versus same time last year?

We are slightly below, not very far below where we were last year. Um, a few hundred acre feet. Um, but what's different this year is that we were versus last year. Last year we had snow in the mountains and so that acts as sort of an additional storage bucket for us. that water comes down, we're able to fill Stanley Lake. Right now, we're looking at that snow pack and recognizing that there's a chance we're not going to be able to fill the bucket like we were able to last year. So, we're fairly similar to where we were last year from a storage, excuse me, from a storage perspective, but um we're not anticipating we're going to get a big runoff that will kind of bring us back to full.

Okay. So even though I may look west and see snow on the mountains, that's not enough kind of snow pack in that region. Yeah. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you,

Council Member Lighty. Thank you so much for being here. Um, I just wanted to know I I was actually going to ask to bring this up. I was recently in Grand Lake for the weirdest event ever. If you've ever looked up ski jouring, do it. It's very strange. You use a horse and ski. Weird. They had to cancel the event because the snow was melting so fast and they didn't even have enough. They had to bring in the ski, whatever they do to make snow and then they had to cancel the event because that snow melted so quickly. And Grand Lake, you can't I mean, you could rub your foot on it and it turns into mush. So that it was really scary to see that. And then just driving through the mountains, we took the back way and none of the lakes are filled enough and they're so so low that you can tell that it it's really bad. So, I'm also not optimistic when it comes to the idea of having a runoff later in the summer. I do just have a question. Does this municipal code with the mandatory water restrictions, will that go handinhand with our current code enforcement or is this something that we're like our residents are going to be impacted because they can't use water, but then code enforcement is saying, well, you have to do all these things. So, is this something that we also would need to look at later this evening? So I I think this a this evening I think we're hoping to keep that a more concise conversation but it's absolutely one of the things that we've been talking about of how do we move forward with that from a policy perspective. Now what I will say in most of the times that I have been a part of one of these which has thankfully only been a couple um usually it gets rolled out where at least the first month you're doing a lot of education. So that would mean like utilities crews, like our collection distribution crew crews, maybe our streets crews are out and and driving the streets and seeing what's going on. And if someone maybe doesn't know or

hasn't hasn't seen the information, then it's um really education. Um we've also been working on door hangers and the like and making sure that those are just education focused. Um, but I think if that's something that council would like to talk about more and what does that look like, um, we're absolutely prepared to bring that back.

Okay. And with the I'm not sure if it was decided or not. With the not being able to water until May 1st, is that something that is code then going to come and say, "Well, your grass is dead, but I can't water. What do you want me to do?" And rain isn't happening. So is that something that I'm then going to get a violation with code or what happens there?

So two things. Um the first is really so everything we're talking about now is voluntary. Um so we're there's no requirement to not turn on your irrigation system yet. Um it's a best practice at this point. Um, the other half of that question, I'm gonna I'm if I may just punt a little bit on that because I'm a little outside of my area and I don't want to step on any toes, but it's an excellent question that we've been talking about. Mayor Prom.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. Thank you for being here. Um, first of all, I'd like to say I really appreciate the communications that you're putting out there just because the more people know, the easier it will be to kind of mitigate this situation. It's not looking optimistic and I don't feel very optimistic about it, especially with summer coming in next week apparently with the weather. Um, I think council member Burns mentioned that. So, I feel the same way. Um, I had a couple of questions. Actually, some were already asked, but um, drought search charges that was I forgot which page that was on. Could you talk a little bit about what that looks like?

So, drought searchcharging would come into effect when we declared a drought stage two. Um, and that would be once you use 18,000 gallons, every,000 gallons beyond that would have a $2 sir charge. A what? $10. $2. $2. $2 for every,000 gallon on top of what the normal would be. Okay. So, it's not insubstantial. No, that's not. And I assume if we do reach that point then that would be part of the communication so people know. Okay. Yes. Absolutely. Wonderful.

And then you might not know the answer to this question. So that's fine if you get back to me um with this um but just have we ever historically ever reached a three or a four? I don't believe so. Um not in the 15 20 years since I've been kind of in this sphere. That's pretty severe.

That would be Yeah. Uh, one of the things we start talking about in a stage three drought is like in a stage two drought, you'll see grass turn brown. It goes dormant. You won't see it necessarily dying. Um, if you don't water it for all summer, it's not probably coming back. And so that would be a very um in-depth conversation before we would want to recommend anything like that. And I'm glad Council Member Lighty asked that question because I was thinking that same thing like what if the grass starts to die if we get to that point, but that's like jumping way ahead. Um obviously, but it's it's a question I'm sure we're all thinking about it.

Um and then um I guess my last question is I know that we have little storage tanks. There's probably a better term for them around underneath our city hall that collects isn't that collecting supposed to be collecting water like rainfall to water the plants around here? There are some we have water wise plants, but I'm just wondering how how that's working. I I believe there's an irrigation system that is also supported by portable water supply. Amanda can can um let me know if that's incorrect. It just popped into my head. I'm like, I wonder.

Good evening, mayor and council. Yes, we have two sistns on this site. The goal is ultimately that we're not irrigating potable water at all on the city hall site outside of what rainwater fills those systems. um throughout the year. So, as of the most recent poll of the um data from last year, we had zero irrigation showing on the meter um because it was coming in through the system. They weren't online though for that was kind of brand new for us. Um so, the hope is that we stay that way. we have up to three years in a non- drought condition to have supplemented that water um in order to reach that C before we get to the point where we're measuring for core certification. Um our goal is obviously not to use water outside of what the Sistns is collecting. Um we do have water wise plants on the site as you mentioned um and staff are continuing to monitor the water levels in those sistns.

Okay, thank you. appreciate that answer and I think that's that's all I have for now. Thank you, Council Member Goff. Thank you, Mayor. I h had to raise my hands just so I could see if it worked. No. And thank you, Director Bes. So, um we've heard in past presentations that the city of Northland has I think the term was something like first use water rights or early use water rights. So, does how does that compare to like someone like Thornton? I mean, are we like more secure in being able to get the water we need or than than some other places or how does that work?

So, that is a a complicated question. Um, but it's a it's a good one. Um, a lot of it has to do with when trying to figure out how to not get into water law here. Um, so so over time there were farmers that came out and dug I'm going to go way back to the beginning. dug these these ditches and canals and then they went to court and they got water rights to go within to go in those ditches. And with that they got they were assigned a date. So we've got sh we've got water rights that have these cool dates like 1894 and Stanley is in 1902. Right. Um whoever has the most senior water will get their water first. We do have some first right stuff. Um so the water that comes over from um Berth it has some really uh we don't have to make replacements to it. It's very high value water. The problem is is that the Colorado River where that is coming from is extremely dry to Council Member Leidy's point. Um they're probably even maybe in slightly worse shape than we are here. And so we may or may not see much of that water this year.

Okay. Yeah, I know what it's confusing. That's kind of why I was curious to ask about that, but that is a very good explanation. Thank you. Yeah, Northland's in a in a moderate look. We're in a kind of a moderate kind of from a compared to our neighbors. Thornton has a lot of different water supplies which helps them and um like Westminster has some pretty senior rights. So, they're also in a pretty good position. Okay. I have a list of questions. I'm gonna start with um something that you just mentioned. We have an IGA with Westminster and Thornton. Wouldn't that mean that we should kind of all have the same drought decision at the same time or No.

So, what's fascinating about it is that Stanley Lake has essentially different buckets in it. Um we have about 7,000 acre feet of the 42,000 acre feet in Stanley Lake. So we have kind of a a smaller share and what we use to fill that bucket is different than what say Westminster or Thornton. So we have slightly different water rights. That means we're each filling our bucket at different rates.

Okay, that's helpful. Um and then the drought searchcharge that question was answered. Um we have had a Tree City USA designation for years. Does that mean we are not going to plant new trees this year? That is a great question that I have not asked yet. We'll have to I was just going we have not had that conversation yet. We've other than very very preliminary. We've talked about whether or not we're do we do new tree plantings? Do we do annual bed plantings? We're not there yet, but those are part of the conversation that we'll have as we get through this process and better understand what water will be available to us this summer.

Okay, those are ways and that as director Borders mentioned earlier, we look at reducing our park usage. We look at that a little differently than we might look at a single residential space. We're looking at where is the highest use park spaces. So things like Northwest Open Space or EV Rains that have much heavier use where we'll see damage to those park spaces much faster than we would in say a less um active use park space. So we're going to look at how do we reduce water more in certain areas and less in others to allow for that um community asset. Okay. I just know that new trees need extra water. Yes.

So I wasn't sure. Okay. Um, and I believe Thornton uh is advertising a 21-day waiver for new sod. So, if they do, and it it could be because they have new development, but if they have new sod, they can is that something we're considering at all or

we haven't considered that. Our code currently reads that there is no new sod. Um there's pros and cons to that and certainly if council would like to see new sod get added um it does use quite a bit of water. Um it can also put people in uncomfortable situations if they need to install sod and can't. Um so that's absolutely um something that we could bring for your consideration. Okay. Um what sort of conversation or collaboration has taken place with the HOA? Um to date we haven't done a ton of reaching out to the public. We wanted to make sure that city council was um fully aware of what was going on and you knew kind of what our game plan was. Okay.

Um so that will be part of our conversation. Also, we're making sure to include uh directoring u to make sure we're including all of our businesses and that kind of thing as well. Okay. Because I know some of these things are going to contradict themselves and put residents in a tricky position. Um, so at the start we're going to ask people not to water until May 1st, but that's not a mandatory. That's just a recommendation at this point. Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Because I know people are starting to water because it's hot and things are drying out. Um, I had a wondering about thinning laws or thinning lawns. We have these beautiful trees that have really established themselves in many front yards. And what happens is over the winter, the roots are, you know, growing as they do. The lawns thin out. And so it usually takes April to May to recede and kind of revive a lawn. Um if we're not allowed to do that, we're going to lose entire front yards. So I'm just wondering if that's going to stay a request if we make the determination of a drought too and then that just goes you can water two days a week.

So um from a timing perspective what it would look like was we will come to you April 20th. Side note that's a study session night. So that would have to be a special meeting. Um and council it could say uh the drought stage two starts on May 1st and so that gives March and May to uh March and April before drought restrictions would start on May 1st.

Okay. Okay. Um because looking at the weather forecast, it's I mean I think it's you're going to see more and more sprinklers come to life in the next few weeks. We're going to see that quite a bit. Um, and it also says two days. How is that monitored?

So, what it will likely look like is an odd even calendar. So, if you have a home that has an odd number address, you would say um, water on Tuesdays and Saturdays. If you had an even number address, you would water Wednesdays and Sundays. The other three days would be for parks, HOAs, commercial areas that um are don't have a two-day watering schedule. They're just trying to hit a reduction goal because sometimes it takes them longer to get through their systems. So, we would know, hey, it's this day of the week only even number houses should be watering and that way we can monitor it because all the houses on this side of the street hopefully are even numbered houses the other side of the street would be odd. So it would be a lot of us being out in the community.

Okay. So two days a week, but that doesn't tell me once a day. It doesn't. It doesn't. And so we will see more consumption happening on those individual days. Overall, we do typically see a reduction. I've seen anywhere from a five to a 10% reduction in my thankfully like I said I've only done this a couple times but um you do see some reduction but we see a lot of consumption on those days where people are watering multiple times. Okay.

And then if code I mean I know it's a separate conversation um what that enforcement looks like. Is it a is it a photograph? I know way back decades ago the last time this was really an issue um our veter was doing drivebys and they would take photos and you would get like a photo radar ticket. Um I don't know if that's what we're doing if we're then relying on residents to turn their neighbors in. I mean that's a whole conversation that's coming next I'm sure. But just wanting to be mindful about absolutely

how that's going to be. I think education is key and making sure people truly understand the reason behind it and the need, but also if they've invested in a lawn, we know that's very very expensive and it does become something they want to keep alive. So, I don't think it's anti-environmentalists that are watering. I think they they just want to not lose something they've spent a lot of money on. So, Absolutely. Okay. Well, uh, Council Member Severs has his hand up again.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Uh, I know this again, this code enforcement is not necessarily your jurisdiction. Uh, but I run a property in Aurora a few years ago when we had restrictions. It was two days a week. Uh, and we got a a slap on the wrist because I guess we were watering after 10:00 a.m. or somewhere in that, you know, when the sun's beating down and it's it evaporates right away. Um, and like for example also I know that so it'd be good to give a warning instead of straight to fine or whatever. Uh, the other thing is as I have a property and we already turned on our irrigation a month early. I already told our residents and staff that it's not for irrigation yet. It's more for like fire grass fire prevention if it comes up. But, uh, yeah, you're going to definitely see properties turning on irrigation. Um,

thank you. So, I don't see any other hands. Does anyone else have a comment or question? No. Thank you very much for bringing this forward. May I ask um is it something that would you would like to move forward uh bring something forward for code enforcement related to drought? Is that a conversation we have? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. They're going to overlap. They're going to overlap for sure. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Next up, we have a conversation, but before we do that, I would like to congratulate our brand new director of planning and development. So, come on forward, Becky Smith. Congratulations. and you are kicking us off with natural medicine business unified development ordinance amendment. Thank you madame mayor uh council. Um so this uh conversation is about our natural medicine uh ordinances. Um back in October of 25, city council adopted CB 2030 which regulates natural medicine businesses through land use provisions. and we modeled those provisions um after the city's existing marijuana business standards. Um following that adoption, a local facilitator came in uh to council in January with concerns that the regulations as written would prevent her from operating her business. Um her space is in a permissible commercial zone district. Uh but there were two provisions that would prevent her business from being able to operate there and those are the 200 foot buffer from residential uses and the 500 foot buffer from parks uh spaces, public park spaces. Um so I prepared some draft amendments tonight um that are part of the packet that have three revisions in the ordinance for your consideration. Uh the first is to remove residential the residential structure distance buffer. Uh the second is to remove public parks from the distance constraints. And then the third is to expand the hours of operation from um how it's currently written, Monday through Friday from 9 to 5:00 pm to seven days a week from 7:00 am to 11:59 p.m. And that's uh because the facilitator uh made that request specifically for scheduling flexibility

because um these sessions do take several hours u from what we have learned from her. Uh staff also did a little bit of research just to see how other municipalities are um uh regulating this land use and um people are kind of doing all kinds of all kinds of things. So um there's not a lot of consistency in how the different communities are regulating. Uh but it is interesting to just look at that comparison. Um so tonight we are just seeking council feedback and consensus on um whether to move this forward and if directed uh the UDO amendment process would include a planning commission public hearing and then a first and second reading before city council. So happy to answer any questions about this item.

Thank you. Council member Condo. Thank you Madame Mayor. Uh again congratulations on your promotion. Thank you. I guess my question is it sounds like the genesis of this is a request of a certain business owner that wants to establish a business. So obviously that we want to be business friendly but the other thing I'm concerned about is if we if we make these changes are we setting a precedent that and I I see our city attorney has already pushed his button there. uh are we setting a precedence that will say hey other businesses can also kind of put their special requests into the city and and we might bend over backwards for them. So to attorney Hoffen

there's there's not an issue of precedence but I do think it's worth a little a little history. This was originally brought to you in January of 2025 in a study session. The October ordinance was a result of the direction we received that from a regulation, a time, place, and manner regulation. You wanted the most stringent time, place, and manner regulations. And so therefore, that's what the ordinance reflects. Um it is up to you how to um regulate what you can regulate, but what the city cannot do is license. And so the only authority you have is to do things like distance limitations, things like our regulation, things like odor regulation. Um, it was not intended nor can it under Colorado law have the effect of excluding them all together from the city. That is the only limitation on the time, place, and manner regulations related to to natural medicine is that it can't have the effect of excluding. But this is really a an in my in my view more of an indication of how North Glenn developed where a lot of there is such dense residential properties that it is difficult to find a commercial property that is not very close to a residential property. So what this ordinance does in draft form is certainly allow this particular business to operate, but it would likely have the effect of allowing other businesses to operate by eliminating the 200 ft limitation. But it maintains many of the original regulations you had requested when you asked for it to be the most stringent.

Thank you for that. And Madame Mayor, if you'll indulge me, wouldn't follow up. So, uh, you said, Attorney Hoffman, that, uh, obviously we can't exclude a business from operating in the system in the city. Is there another location that, uh, this business entrepreneur could potentially operate within the city? I am confident there is, but, she had already acquired this prop or had already, and I don't know if it's a lease or a purchase. she owns it. But it had already been purchased. So, um, as to this particular vendor, the investment had already been made. Okay. Thank you, Council Member Barnes.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you so much for providing the comparison to the other cities. I think that's super helpful because when you look at the chart, we are ve the most strict for some reason. And I'm I vaguely remember this conversation about like I we wanted to like match the marijuana buildings as well. And I think like the more I look at what other cities like I like I'm interested in the like how Boulder is equating it to medical offices. Um I think that's interesting. um because this is a medicinal practice and I think like maybe we were conflating recreational usage with medical usage when we first passed this and I think we need to reexamine it in a medical standpoint and so I think looking like I'm interested in like the things that Boulder doing because I also think it's interesting too that they a lot of places like a lot of places were like us and did the preschool thing but then Boulders 500t from middle junior or high school actually kind kind of makes a little bit more sense um from like a recreation standpoint. Um and so I think re-examining this from a medical usage, which is what we are discussing tonight, not recreation, makes a lot more sense. So I appreciate this and I think when we're moving this forward, I would be open to that lens a little bit more. Thank you,

Council Member Noiki. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Congratulations, uh, Director Smith. Um,

uh, I, uh, I would, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I would say I probably agree with Council Member Burns on this one. I I think, you know, originally kind of thinking through uh thinking about this through the lens of cannabis and kind of regulating cannabis, but now having kind of had some distance and time and space, um kind of viewing it differently, um you know, so I am glad that the resident kind of brought this forward. Uh a couple of questions in regard to looking through the ordinance. Um so public park obviously 500 ft from any public park but we leave kind of public pool or public recreational facility. Um, is there any particular reason why those get left? And I see you shaking your head, Cory.

It's to allow this particular use. I mean, this was based on the request from this particular vendor. And so, this would allow this particular location where this particular owner owns property to be a permitted use. And just to expand on what uh council member Burns had indicated and that there is an opportunity to make this essentially a use by right in any non-residential area if that is the the goal of the council if the if the the change is that dramatic in terms of where you would allow them. Um right now if you look at the table it is allowed in industrial commercial autoor oriented and commercial general. Um you know there there's I suspect other zone districts that it could be allowed in that are non-residential if that is the goal of council. Um,

can you explain the use by right just maybe for the audience at home that it means it's allowed as a matter of zoning and would it be only subject to the distance limitations and then the um hours odor other general regulations. Okay. Okay. I guess the same question goes for the halfway houses. you know, how we kind of arrived at these some of these decisions. Again, the the direction we received was to make it as stringent as possible. Okay. And to use marijuana as a guide. That was the direction we received in January of 2025.

Yeah. Okay. And then I then I I suppose I'm in favor of kind of pulling back a little bit and going a little more liberal with regard to this. Um that's kind of where my head's at right now. So, Council Member Goff,

thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Director. Um, oh my god, my brain just went dead. Anyway, um I um I was going to say Becky, but we're not supposed to go by first names. Uh I just I feel like this is this is um kind of one of the dilemmas of local government in that we had hearings but we didn't have that this particular person who would be affected by this come to the hearing to tell us about how it would affect her and you know sort of explain the procedure because if I'd heard all that information then I would have wanted to change I wouldn't have wanted to go the way we did. So I'm fine with the changes. I don't think it's uh catering to any particular person. I think it's for me it's more of an understanding of how this um medical practice actually works. And so I think the two or three recommendations or for amendments or what, however it's worded, I'm fine with this. I'm fine with it. Thank you,

Council Member Lighty. Thank you. Thank you so much and congratulations. Um, I would kind of like to echo the same things that my fellow council members are saying. I think I would like a little bit more clarification on the business as a whole, I guess, and the practice as a whole. Um, because I mean connecting it with marijuana is one thing, but then there's also there I mean is there a potential to see revenue from this? Is this something that other businesses uh not this one vendor would also be able to come into the city and be I mean benefit from us changing these regulations? Is that something that we would see

potentially? Um so as long as another business that wants to come in meets the new distance requirements, which are likely to be the case now that we've removed residential specifically, but also the park distance might also help a business locate. um could open up that possibility. And then as far as the practice, I know kind of just what I've learned from the business owner, but really it is um people consuming in the office and staying there until it's gone through their system and gone through the therapy session. So it can take hours and hours and hours, which is why they requested the um consideration for changing the time. But but with the inability to license, there's really not an opportunity to for revenue to the city of North Glenn because that's only at the state level. Probably the only thing that would be subject to revenue is use tax on a one-time basis for the type of um personal property that they would acquire for the business. But beyond that, there's not really it's not a revenue generating opportunity for the city of North Glenn like marijuana is.

Thank you. Um well, I I asked for this to come back um because I was concerned when the business owner came and spoke. Um partly because there had been some expenses incurred um that you know lots of money was invested so that she could um open this business. And I think as far as setting a precedent, I I do think we are responsive to residents all the time. Um, and when they come and they talk to us and we assess and we do our research, we learn a ton. And I know we learned a lot about this business and, you know, the need for longer hours and all of that. I don't think we fully understood the consequences um, when we made the decision the last time. I think the uh table the attachment number one is extremely helpful and very thorough. So, thank you for providing that because it helps give us the context of everyone around us. And we did take the most restrictive approach the first time and after hearing from a business owner, I do believe it's the right thing to do to scale that back, make a change, and um hopefully have a thriving business in our city. Council member Condo. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I only have one other question and and it I guess it's more business operations, but I I did see at the table um that we are mandating or uh making a requirement for uh some order mig mitigration or filtration and things of that nature. Um because what I'm thinking about is okay, if we're if we're narrowing that setback station standoff distance, are we potentially I don't know the nature of

this business, but does it put off any fumes, odors, or anything like that that could be potentially considered a nuisance by residents that are already living there?

Yeah. Um, I unfortunately don't know enough about it either to know if there's any odors, but the ordinance right now as written does require that ventilation or air purifiers be put in to mitigate any potential odors that are, uh, produced. And so, um, it doesn't specify what type of system is required, but that there is a system to mitigate that. And so, uh, essentially if there was an odor situation, we could go in, uh, with the code enforcement and and address that. Okay. Thank you.

So, I think we heard from quite a few council members that we are um, in agreement with the amended ordinance to then take forward to the next step. Mayor, if I could, I just want to I'm not I want to make sure I understand the direction because I'm not sure it goes far enough. um because at least some council members have said there was a desire to make it even broader. This would allow this particular business but only eliminate some of the distance limitations. If that's council's direction, I just want to make sure I'm hearing it correctly. Um because we can certainly to use I think uh council member Noiki's term liberalize it further if that is the desire. I just I want to make sure we're delivering what you want.

Does anyone want to clarify? I mean, I think we're just approving the one that was presented, but Council Member Noiki, do you have more to add? Yeah. Uh, well, really around the public pool, the public recreational facility.

I mean, I don't if we're taking out public within we're removing public park, I don't really see a a case for keeping the pool or the public recreational facility. Uh, that would, I guess, be my suggestion. the halfway house. Again, going back to council member Burn's point about treating this as kind of uh medicine and kind of using it in kind of an out outpatient kind of format in like a doctor's office. Um I mean the halfway house, I mean, you know, half in that distance, but again, I'm I'm kind of open to discussion. I don't I don't necessarily know like without kind of seeing a map and seeing you know I'd want it to go in like these businesses but maybe not near I don't I don't really know. So just kind of throwing it out there.

Council member Lighty, I just have a question cuz I'm not sure how how it all connects or works. I was interested. I was looking at the section that you had about Boulder. Um, so I just looked up their little ordinance and they have a whole page on their website that explains basically like how to look up the permits, all those things, I guess. Is that something that is that like is their outline something that we could use to adjust our or liberalize it as you've said?

Well, I I think what Boulder does on its website is explain the state licensing procedures which is again that's the differentiation. the state does the licensing and has some minimum requirements and then we can determine where they can be located. It also had their ordinance that they passed in January. So, I just was looking and seeing if that was something that we could bounce off of together. Council member Burns.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. And I think I think the what Erie did it's separating out healing centers versus all other natural medicine centers is a good idea. Um especially with like around hours of operations. And I think like again like separating out a medical facility versus because a lot of the times like natural medicine and the space is a big treatment hub for like PTSD um and veterans and that sort of space. Um, so I I think like that's where I'm coming from is this lens of more equating it to like medical marijuana like that and that's why I brought up that differentiating because I think when we put this forward it was around recreational marijuana. That's what we wanted to map it to and it's it's not apples and oranges. Um, and so I think like focus like can we shift it to like that healing center situation? We could. It was actually medical was our guide originally. Was it?

It was. But and

much like marijuana at its infancy. There is a lot of different opinions about natural medicine as well and and whether or not it is it is how it's used. And so I think the the initial um regulations reflect that. But we can certainly differentiate between healing centers and all other natural medicine businesses as it relates to ours. Um, and then you know again I guess the question would be is there a desire to expand further or just consistent with council member Nikki take out some of the distance limitations? We've eliminated the residences. We can provide sort of concentric circles much like we did previously to show where they would be allowed in the after condition with the additional um elimination of for example correctional facilities and and halfway houses and you'd be able to see with the combination where in North Glenn they could be located. Council member Goff,

sorry, I was unmuting myself. Can I just follow up to Oh, yeah. to Attorney Hopkins because I also think separating out the healing centers versus the businesses might help us futureroof a little for this everchanging landscape. Um, yeah, that was it. Sorry. It's okay, Council Member Goff.

Thank you. So, a couple of things. Uh, one is that this is it's really clear to me since after we had um, uh, the resident come and explain that even with medical marijuana, people are taking the product away with them and in this situation, they don't. So, um, you know, I I see now the big there are some big differences between those two um, products, I guess you would say, or treatments. Um, so, um, anyway, the other comment I wanted to make was that, um, the when I'm looking at what we have on the ordinance here, if we, it says, uh, if we can cross out the the residential stuff, we can cross out the public park, but there is a uh, number seven says it's uh, it can't be located um, upon any well, I guess it's within the feet of the city owned property. I I don't feel the need to really expand beyond the the recommendations that we just got tonight. I don't feel like we're trying to, you know, like have it be everywhere. We're just trying to make it possible. And right now in this particular case, I really do feel for the resident who had, you know, put in a a lot of her time and money with the expectation that she would be able to do this and then found out she could not. So that's that's where I stand on it. Well, and it's also important to remember that this goes back to the planning commission with a public hearing and then back to us with another public hearing before it will be um before it will be approved. Council member Noiki.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um the the last piece I'll kind of throw out is the half mile uh restriction with regard to other natural medicine businesses. North Glenn is not that large. So is is that something we should explore as well? I don't know. Again, that's that's for as a human that's hard to know kind of what half a mile is. And again, that was what North Glenn did with marijuana was that was an attempt to limit the total number as opposed so that there was um and it was roughly not not um precisely but allowed dispersal throughout the city. Um

right. So it it is it is a way to limit without putting a number on them and that was that was the intent. So it doesn't you know no more than 10 in the city then you have some sort of lottery process. this was an easier way to limit the total number um by limiting them from a distance limitation cuz I could see a a case where like maybe you'd want to have the businesses kind of in a certain area cuz I don't think it is like cannabis in the sense that like I wouldn't want to see I mean in my ward we have three cannabis shops so I don't know I'm just thinking out loud.

Council member Condo. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Uh, I just want to express my uh support for Dr. Goff's position. I'm I'm in her camp. I would like to just stick with the changes that are proposed, the red line changes. Mayor Promp. Thank you, Madame Mayor. That's exactly what I was going to say. I agree with Dr. Goff that we are just trying to make it possible, not eliminate it completely. So I think there does need to be some level of regulation um for us in terms of that. And then um question in terms of the state. So the state issues the license. So I'm assuming the state is also responsible for like inspecting for compliance and and so forth

as it relates to those matters related to licensing. But if for odor mitigation and some of the other things, we are still authorized to inspect on those things. Okay. That are in our ordinance. Okay. Thank you. I I wasn't sure. And then just for my clarification, is there a desire among council as a group to differentiate between healing centers and other types of natural medicine or not in terms of hours?

I mean, I I don't see a reason. Uh, Council Member Burns, can you express your point again because I don't understand why we would need to. the business at hand, the business that brought brought this to our attention would be classified more as like a healing center versus like a natural medicine business, which in my mind depending to our city attorney's point of um decriminalization of the of psilocybin in general in the state like where that might go and so I think if we have something like this correct

on page uh seven of nine of the packet information for this topic. There are definitions and so the natural medicine business is a whole host of types of be businesses. A natural medicine healing center is the one type that actually provides the services. So what Erie did is said if you're a healing center you can have the expanded hours but if you're for example a cultivation facility only or something less than just a healing center you have more limited hours. That's the distinction

because I think that to like her point when she spoke in front of us like the journey is long for some people and so and she stays with them and so I think that having that flexibility or a little bit longer hours is important to a healing center.

So to your definition, Mr. Hoffman. I I I'm confused because it says a natural medicine business includes a national a healing center, a cultivation facility. So that's a where they're just making it and selling it to someone else. So right now the ordinance as drafted makes the distinction I believe that council member Burns is requesting because if you look again at the bottom of page seven the hours is for natural medicine business. I'm sorry it's broader.

Got it. It includes So if you cultivate you can be open till midnight. Got it. Got it. Okay. And so that's that's really the distinction we're talking about. Whereas if you were just a healing center, thank you. That's where the treatment is provided. Um there may be a manufacturer in North Glenn right now. Those are all included in the hours distinction. We could limit it to just healing centers. Yeah. And and that's where I want to make I don't want like a fact like you know no one wants that next to them open till midnight, right? But a healing center is quiet. Like it's just the one-on-one. That's my Yeah.

So, do we leave do we change our current ordinance to just be the cultivation center or how do you peel off? We we would revise subsection three. Okay. To have different hours for a healing center as opposed to the rest of the natural medicine businesses.

Okay, that does make sense now that I understand the difference. So, thank you very much. I am in support of uh differentiating the two. Um but I also think we should just leave it as amended. Um agreeing with council member Goff after that differentiation. Uh council member Leidy.

Thank you. I just want to clarify I think what sorry all the I'm trying to connect the dots in my brain. So if we do if we change if we clarify it how you were saying does that take off the Monday through Friday as well cuz on in here it would it just says natural medicine natural medicine businesses shall only operate between the hours of and then it cut off 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and then cut off Monday through Friday. So, I think what the current proposed revised language would be is for natural medicine healing centers to be Monday through Sunday from 7:00 a.m. to 11:59. The remainder of the natural medicine businesses would be authorized from 9:00 to 5:00 Monday through Friday.

Thank you. Okay. I am fully in support of that then. Mayor Prom. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I was just going to say that I'm in fully support of that as well differentiating. Um, and then just a quick question because I really don't know how these businesses work. Um, for the natural medicine businesses are not the healing centers. I know the healing centers according to the lady that spoke, they stay there while they're being treated. Are they allowed to take product with them in the other centers? Like I just I have no clue. Just curious. I believe the answer is no. Okay. based on the state licensing regulations.

Okay. I just confused myself there for a second. All right. Thank you, Council Member Goff. Thank you. One last quick question. So, what about I I mean, I don't I can't remember if she the woman who came to speak said this or not, but if you had a healing center and you were cultivating the product for your own healing center, what what category would that fall in? that would fall under the healing center because you're providing the service. Okay. All right. I think I'm fine with the differentiation as well.

Okay. So, I did hear some support for amending just as written. Are we okay with that? Yeah. And then with that differentiation. Okay. All right. Hopefully that was clear. Thank you for sticking it out with us. Okay, next up I think we have a fun activity. Neighborhood services discussion number three. Thank you. Um here for this item as well.

So tonight we are discussing um or having our third conversation around neighborhood services and we're going to focus largely on building consensus. Um the first um two presentations we focused on the history, the top code violations that we see in our community, the proactive and complaint driven enforcement statistics as well as the process, the training and the procedures. Um so tonight we really now want to hear from you with a focus on um perspectives that diverge um and working towards reaching some collaboration and consensus on how to move forward in a direction that meets all the city's values. Um really working towards a balance balanced approach that looks at individual resident concerns along with uh community I don't know what happened to the presentation, but I will keep going. I don't know if there's um there's two different presentations going. Oh, I should mention that too. There will be this screen that will show our menty exercise results and then there's this screen that has the PowerPoint presentation. Anyways, I'll keep going while we look into those issues. But uh we'll be working to balance the expectations um between individual resident needs and community expectations and then also acknowledging that um any changes uh to policy can also generate some varied feedback from our community. So um I have a high level recap of the survey results, but there were some

areas of alignment uh with city council and those areas largely um were around violations that had a clear health uh and safety impact. So uh littering and debris accumulation that could create fire hazards or attract um animals. Uh overhanging branches, snow and ice that can create slip hazards. uh dead and hazardous trees and vehicles on blocks that could be unstable and create a safety hazard as well. Um see this is um we also had some areas of significant divergence. Um so definitely around things where uh the violations can be perceived as largely aesthetic and so uh those areas included grass and weed um height control. Some people felt that this could create a potential fire hazard. Some saw it more as an aesthetic preference. Um weed control on developed lots. Uh parking on unimproved surfaces and abandoned vehicles on private property. And so we're going to try to today dive into some of these more specifically. So one of the central questions that we're going to try to get to tonight is uh when the city should be intervening in maintenance issues uh that are primarily aesthetic versus those with a clear public safety impact. And I think it's important to acknowledge that there are very wide range of perspectives and people land anywhere in between these two perspectives. And so there's uh you know the view A here which is aesthetic maintenance contributes to neighborhood stability and protects property values and community character all the way to perspective B that the city should

really only be focused on those issues that are health and safety uh related. And there's a balancing act as well. Um we want to make sure that uh we are um responding to residents who are maintaining their properties and who value responsive enforcement and protect the um to protect their investments and neighborhood quality as well as working with residents facing barriers that may need extra support. um uh relate uh recognizing that there are financial or health issues or constraints that could exist and also the broader community. So uh the values of both individual autonomy um and neighborhood stability with varying views as just um shown on the previous slide. And so tonight, we're hoping to find some consensus on an approach that honors North Glenn's values while also responding to legitimate concerns. So with that, I have um a menty poll and I sent out a link so you can do it. Um it was sent to your North Glenn emails. So you can click on it and do it from your computer or you can scan the QR code that I provided um in the email or at the dis uh participate. And so this is really more just of a test to make sure everybody's is working. But do put yourself where you see um where you land on the spectrum and uh we will be able to see kind of the the wide diverse the diversity of this group.

So it looks like we have seven. Is anybody I Yeah, I can clear this and we can try again. Um, so we will clear this. Okay, let's let's try again and see. And it's you can do it from a phone as well if your computer's not working. Um, this is anonymous and it won't the results will save here but not to an individual that's taking the survey. Got it. All right. All right. Great. Um, okay. So to start the conversation, I wanted to have a little bit of a ranking exercise because a lot of these code enforcement issues are based on different values that we have in our community and all of these values are important, but it might be a good to understand where everybody is standing with these different values because we all rank our values differently, even if we all have the same values. So for this I think you just select and then you can move them around. And once you have them in an order that you like you can submit.

You can um and you can move your little thingies up and down. I've been playing with

Yeah. If they're not in an order that you like, you have the opportunity to move them around before you submit. Is there anyone else waiting to submit?

All right. So there is a clear uh prioritization I think of public safety and health but then there are some competing interests as well that are ranked here including uh economic equity and accessibility as well as community character and appearance which are two values that don't always work together right um so I have some questions on this slide that are just to really garner discussion and hopefully build us or uh help us find some um alignment on some of these challenging topics. And the first is how do we define the threshold between aesthetic concern and legitimate community impact and we can also if it's helpful I can just read these questions and keep working through and then we can come back to some of this so that we're providing more direction. Um, so another thing to keep in mind is what role should resident complaints play in determining enforcement priorities and how do we balance the needs of a compliant resident with compassion for those facing barriers and compli um to compliance. So, I have a scenario question um that's just really more for discussion to start out that kind of talk touches on those discussion questions. A resident has maintained turf grass in their front yard for 5 years. The lawn is mowed regularly uh to about four or five inches, but never lower, and some patches reach 10 to 12 in between mowings. The property is otherwise well-maintained, but a neighbor complains that it looks unkempt.

Do you support city intervention in this case um with a complaint coming in? What additional context would change your answer as far as making a determination in the field? And what process would make you more comfortable with enforcement in a case like this? Oh. Yeah, this is just discussion. And again, if we're not ready to really dive into these specific questions yet, we can keep rolling through and come back. I'm ready to discuss. Um, okay. I think it's so interesting that we put community character and appearance at three when we just had this drought discussion, fam. Um, okay. Uh, vibes. Okay. So, would you support city intervention in this case? No. Somebody is just complaining. Um, they they work they mow their yard. Maybe they're busy. I know a lot of my neighbors are working multiple jobs and work six, seven days a week, so they get to it when they can, right? So, um, no. Um, would additional context change my answer? I don't know. Probably not because there's historical data here that they've maintain this front yard for 5 years with no safety concerns, no nothing. They're just busy people. What process would make me comfortable with enforcement? You're going to have to twist my arm on this one. Um, maybe a door hanger or maybe we can send a neighborhood kid to mow their lawn for them and help the local economy and neighborhood kids. Um, that is my vibe on this one because they they're you the rest of their property is fine, right? This to me reads like a busy family, a very average family

working, juggling multiple jobs or whatever. Council member Condo.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I I kind of feel the same way as Council Member Burns. And so if there was any kind of city intervention, I I suppose it wouldn't necessarily just be sending over a code enforcement officer. Maybe it's more like crew or or somebody because you never know. There there could also be a little bit of a neighbor to neighbor spat going on there. So maybe an approach with crisis response unit kind of unpeeling the layers of the onion, understanding if there's a neighbor on neighbor thing happening or perhaps maybe as as council member Burns suggested that it's a family that's having some difficulties or a senior citizen that I don't know maybe they had an injury and so they're not able to mow the lawn as frequency frequently as they used to before. Uh that would be kind of how I would if if I were in this scenario how I would like to see that play out. Uh so I am kind of answering I hope bullet points one and two and then yeah depending on what the what the circumstances are obviously we want to we want to educate and inform first as opposed to you know applying more rigid discipline or or mechanisms.

Council member Goff. Thank you, Mayor. So, to for me, um, Director Smith, this is this is like a non-issue. I I this is an a neighbor is just grumpy. Um, but I would say that I have we it's really it is a tricky thing because the one thing that I hear the most about from residents are things like this. Rare, you know, rarely does it is it gotten to the point where it is a safety issue where I'm like, "Oh, you're right. You this is it's usually things like this." And so I don't know how how you know to whatever we do. I think part of it has to has to be with I don't know educating people or encouraging people to be compassionate with their neighbors because a lot of times the first thing I'll ask is well have you have you actually talked to your neighbor about it? And the answer is no. So some of it just has to do with things that have nothing to do with code enforcement but more about developing community. So, I wouldn't support intervention. I don't Yeah, I don't to me I I I don't know what what else there would be if it just they just don't like the way it looks and a few patches are maybe not strictly in code. I mean, I've seen so many where people do absolutely nothing. This sounds great.

Council member Noiki. Uh, thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, for me, does the M, if we go back to the municipal code, does it say 8 in? That it's got to be 8 in. Mhm. So, we're essentially advocating for directing city staff not to enforce municipal code in certain instances or not to prioritize it for enforcement. not to prioritize it to do go and look at certain code provisions and and possible amendments to those codes.

Jeez, I don't know how you would like amend this though. Sometimes it would be 10, sometimes it would be five. I mean, I would say would I support city intervention in this case? Probably. I mean, my inclination is toward probably not just because we have to kind of prioritize what things are important. I mean, if maybe if somebody, you know, uh, if it was the difference between going on Facebook and for 10 minutes or shooting over to this person's house to talk to them because a complaint came in, maybe I'd say yes. Mhm.

Um, you know, having the additional context would change my answer again if something happened with the resident, right? If if something came up where because it sounds like for the most part they were kind of maintaining it. the property is otherwise well-maintained. You know, seems to me like that kind of lowers the priority. I don't know what process would make me comfortable with enforcement. Yeah. I don't even know how to answer that. Council member Lighty,

I'm struggling and I feel like I need to fix my face after I read over and over and over cuz I'm like, "Huh?" I just I think about my grandparents. My grandpa is so so proud of his lawn, but I I mean I've never walked around with a ruler to measure how high his grass is, but I can tell you that when he went to the hospital, he and wasn't able to be at home, it probably reached over 10 to 12 in because of how well he maintains it on a normal basis. So I I just I get in that loop because would additional context change my answer? Possibly. But in this just in this little clip, it sounds like the neighbor's just mad that the other person has really awesome grass. Is that I feel like that's where I'm stuck is like I'm reading this person has regularly mo like mowed their lawn. Their grass seems to be thick, but some patches just happen to be a little bit taller between mowings. I I struggle with that just because I'd be really jealous if I had that lawn, especially in a drought. So, I think I I would agree that this is a non-issue. this just kind of seems like a neighborly spat. And it it does make me uncomfortable though that like we would basically be saying like don't pay attention to this part of the code, but also like why is the code 8 in and how do we know how tall the grass is? I think that's my how do you know that how tall this grass is?

Well, I if a code officer got called out for a complaint, they could measure Wow. That's all I have to say there. Wow. Council member Roer, I was trying to put my hand down. Have similar concern.

Okay. Well, I do the only thing I wanted to add is I do not believe this is a crisis response unit moment either. I think that would be really offensive and that would be us making a lot of assumptions and I don't think all neighborhood spats need city staff to be intervening. Um I I don't think this is an issue at all. I don't think any city intervention needs to happen. Um, as far as changing the code, I think where I'm headed with some of this, because I looked over there right away and was like, this is not a public safety or health issue at all. And so, if that's what we want to prioritize with our code, then this this I'm not even sure where that is unless it's it's also not messing with property value. So, it's number four. So, the response might be, how do we respond to the resident that made the complaint,

right? Is there a thank you for your concern, have a nice day? Like, that's it. Um, I think we're ready for the next one. All right. All right. So, this really is to Do you have your hand up again? No, I just Oh,

I really like that you added that about actually like like re I mean my old logic problem like ELSAT brain is turning back on during this and the fact that you turned that like what city intervention is needed. I think it is like a response to the resident who complained like I think that is the problemolving aspect of that slide. Um, so I thank you for bringing that up because I do think that is like where we would need to focus our attention to me. Like that's the thing. That's like the community situation we're all we've all been talking about. Right. Thank you, Madame Mayor. I appreciate you activating this part of my brain again. I'm stoked now. Oh,

sir. Can I piggy back off that because are you saying like because I think we do have a process for responding, right? I in that we code follows up with someone and they give you if I'm the one that sends a complaint, then I get a response, right, as to how that they responded. Are you saying that they wouldn't respond like they would just acknowledge that I sent the complaint and wouldn't respond or No, I was going back to the values that we had projected and responding to residents we have in the middle as number four, right?

And so a resident brought a concern forward. So, I believe based on that, our response goes to the resident that brought forward the concern. I don't think it needs to be anything other than thank you, have a nice day. I mean, I don't think it I don't think every response needs to be a we fixed your problem for you. Okay. So, we're kind of validating that we received the response, but yes, that's as far as it goes.

I mean, or we can say this is not a public safety and health issue. I well I think we have to have followup because I don't think we should give the resident the the belief that we're that the city's going to do something. I think we need to be firm and like thank you for mentioning this. We're not going to act on it. Yeah. However we want to say that but I think we got to be clear. Yeah.

Um so this is another ranking exercise. There's two perspectives. I want you to think about your uh constituents that are coming at this from both perspectives. So whether you fall on one side or the other in terms of enforcement, try to set it aside and just think about what conditions or changes would make you more comfortable with enforcement if you're in the camp of less enforcement. And really, we're just trying to find potential compromises as we move forward to to find that balance. All right. Um, so those top two are pretty clear in my mind. Um, really focusing on the education first contact as well as clear safety thresholds. Um, as far as when we prioritize enforcement. Um, the next one is if you're a constituent that is in more in favor of enforcement and you want to see those yards at 8 in or below for turf grass, what concerns would need to be addressed to accept a lighter enforcement approach?

I don't know. Question. You have a question. Council member Roer. Um, is the neighbor notification is that if they are being comp the complaintant or the respondent? The complaintant. So, addressing um kind of similar to what Meredith was saying, addressing and acknowledging the complaint. That's not I thought that was okay. What does response to resident complaint mean? What are the difference between those two? I had them backwards.

No. So, I'm going to take that back. The response to the resident complaint is the communication to the resident that's complaining. The neighbor notification is not notifying the neighbor or like that notice of violation or that initial contact. Okay,

you can ask. Can we redo that one because people had it reversed. Sorry. I just want I was like, "Oh, no. Flip them." We're doing that one one more time. It's okay. You can do it again. This is fun. This is fun.

Yeah. Just to Sorry for the confusion on that. And just a side note, my colleagues, I'm chuckling at you because the Metro Mayor's Caucus used this tool and 30 mayors kept clicking that thumbs up, too.

They just kept they just kept clicking it and clicking it and giggling and making themselves laugh. You're reminding me of a bunch of third graders in Camass Prep. It's amazing. what we're doing here today.

So, can I open a dialogue if that's okay? Just because I had the the process as number four and so I'd love to know. So, I obviously was an outlier for that. And so, I'd love to know why that's number two for council members. Council member Barnes, I also had that very low. So, I'm also I would second that question. Yeah. I'm just because I don't I feel like we should not promote residents who want to hear about others being punished. Yeah. Yeah, I put the So, three of us put it last.

Yeah. Council member Lighty.

So, I I put that at the top if I'm going to be honest. I I struggle because I was going through our packet and our code enforcement and there's a lot of contradictions and I think that's where I get stuck and I think having having just a clear like this is what we do when you do this and this seems a little bit more important than having five different qualifications for one thing. And I think that's where I kind of got stuck up and like I would rather I'd like to see a clear process that it fits for I mean the egregious cases where it's like hey what this doesn't work but I mean some weeds in your front like that's not the same I guess that's that's why I put mine higher.

Okay. Council member Goff. Thank you mayor. Um well see what I was answering this is for those favoring more enforcement which I am not but what how would I be persuaded to to change my mind and have less enforcement and for me that would it would be reaching out to the resident that's complaining and then you know kind of finding out or talking to them maybe we could convince them that they it's not that big a deal they could just let it drop.

Yeah. So the clear standards, I mean, I think that's what we already have. And we were just talking about how, well, you know, every like three days a month or whatever, this guy's lawn is, you know, taller than it's supposed to be, but we're going to let it slide. So that's why I don't really think the clear standards is going to help would help because somebody would say, "Hey, we got clear standards and this guy's grass is two inches taller than it's supposed to be three days a week." So that's why I would not have put that at the top. So I mean it just it's kind of difficult because you I had to put on a different hat.

That's true. The question is yeah I got to look at that question again. So if I'm someone else Yeah. those favor.

Yeah. So, because like that's how I answered this is like I put on, you know, the persona of my neighbors, right? I walk around the community a lot. I hear a lot from my neighbors and a lot of them to me just want to be heard. And so that's why I prioritized, you know, responsing to resident complaints. I ranked that as number one with clear standards to prevent chaos number two cuz I think then being able to tell them like, hey, these are our standards. this is how we're going to move forward, I think is really important. And and then again with that neighbor notification, I think just like the more we can communicate with people, the more happy they'll be with things. Like again, just like feeling heard and understood and like the more we can have that open dialogue of communications of like and maybe my example of my neighbors are is too specific cuz like we have the church's house, right? And being able to tell folks like that house is abandoned, right? and like and then once they're like, "Oh, okay." You know what I mean? Like this is a different thing and I'm like, "Yes." Right. And so I think it's like that's how I am viewing this with my with my personal experiences.

Okay. Council member Condo.

Uh thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, so I I was actually having the first when when we did the first time around with this, I had the same sort of reaction as council member Lighty and that I put process for egregious cages as number one, I believe. Um, and the way I and actually interestingly enough, I put clear standards number two, but the reason why I'm I'm I did that I think was looking through my lens of, you know, the military and the navy and all that. It's, you know, you want to try and address the worst performers because if you don't, then it kind of tells people at large that they have license to not necessarily adhere to standards. So, that was kind of the the lens through which I was looking at when I first responded. And then when we did the doover, I actually swapped it and I said clear standards first because I it's so important to be, you know, if you're trying to set up a social contract with society, you you just you got to be un unequivocally uh how should I say this? Very clear about what you want, what you're expecting. um and then and then have the willpower and and the the desire to to back those up. So again, re egregious cases, but obviously being sympathetic to those sort of outliers where maybe there is a a reason as to why somebody's not complying and then figuring out how to support them. Council member Noiki.

Um, thank you, Madam Mayor. Would you This was in response to a question you asked. What was your question? Well, I was just wondering because the I had the number three. I had that at the bottom. Well, and when I asked the question, it was number two and then I think you finished and it bumped it down. So, um I was just asking for clarification on that as to why people prioritize that one. Okay. Just the agreed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was just wondering. Uh Council Member Burns. Oh, you're good.

Okay. Uh Council Member Goff,

thank you. So, I just want to get back to the whole thing with the standards, clear standards. I mean to me when people move into a community and I can use myself as an example but I can also and talk to neighbors and other people they have no idea what the codes are or I mean I honestly I when I first moved to Northbend many many many years ago so it's probably statute of limitations is way past but I had no idea that cats had to be on a leash. So my, you know, cat roam the neighborhood until it disappeared and then I found it at the pound because somebody said, "Well, yep, you check the pound. Why would anybody take my cat to the pound?" So anyway, I'm just saying that these stand nobody when they move in, they don't go and read what the standards and the code and stuff are. They hear that from their neighbors or they see what's going on in the neighborhood. And so again, I just want to go back to the community building, the community education, the outreach. That's really where you're going to get people understanding what the expectations are because they're not going to go to the city website and read our code. So, I guess that's why that for me the clear standards was the last one.

Mayor Prom.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, I've been just listening a lot because I feel like context is everything in every single every single line item. Which is why I go back and forth. I'm like, well, are we talking about the case that we, you know, that the fictitious case that we just heard about because that one wasn't egregious at all, but this is asking about egregious case cases. So that really confused me a little bit because you know without context and knowing what the situation is. If it was the case like the one prior then that's not you know something I feel is very serious but is it a safety issue then that might be you know that process for more egregious like what is that safety threshold as was mentioned before. Um, so I do think that it starts with you have to inform the community because to to Dr. Gooff's point, when I first moved here, I got a tag for the way my trash cans were placed. I just put them out and they were like too close to each other. I was like, "Oh, I don't I don't know how to put this here. Like, how do I do?" And then I fixed it. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like a terrible experience. It was an educational experience. Like the tag said, "This is how you know you should place the trash cans." I'm like, "Okay, great. Now I make my husband do it and I don't do it anymore." Um, so I think, yeah, I think education, things like the door hangers, um, I do think we have to have standards in a city. Um, if not, you know, can get out of control, right? Broken windows theory. You see some neighborhoods that look like that and that attracts that. So, where's that balance? Um, and I am struggling with that today to be honest. Um, but the case that we heard before, the fictitious case like that to me isn't that's not a serious one.

I have a few more and I feel like some of the conversation is leading into this slide. So, if it's okay,

I'll jump ahead. Um, so throughout these conversations, we have heard a lot of good ideas. Um really doing education first. Uh doing door hangers, doing door hangers for um a first contact with someone that may have a violation on their property. Doing door hangers for people that are doing a great job and um giving them kudos. Um we've also talked about extending timelines for residents that are demonstrating financial or health or other barriers. Something that we talked about at our neighborhood services uh meeting was getting direction on potentially removing the code supervisor requirement to provide any extensions after the first extension and creating that oversight um in a different way. There's also been talk about mediation resources for neighborto neighbor uh conflicts as well as um programs that could be looked into as far as providing neighborhood supports.

Yes. Um well this is this this is good. I just because of the conversation we'd had about talking to the complaintant. I don't know that's not necessarily on here but could be considered the educational first contact with them. Absolutely. And I will say that this is not going to include everything. So if there are other things that you're like actually we should consider this um right now is a great time to bring it up. Does anybody have Are we doing another exercise? Yes. Oh, yes. Sorry.

Yeah, because I went back to this. Oh, yeah. I got distracted by Council Member Goff. Oh, the what? All of them. I have to decide which ones first. I like them all. I I'll also say with this one if we like all of them they're all things we can look into but they do have different timelines. So some of them we can implement immediately leaving this meeting. Point of clarification. Can you say what the difference is between ext um where was this?

Um extended timelines for residents. Yeah. And then the support programs for the elder. I mean, those kind of overlap, so I'm a little just

Yeah. So, the extended timelines really is to speak to um the timelines that are written into code and the code enforcement manual. And so, our officers currently um if they go out and there's a violation, they issue the notice, and then they go back and they check on it. If the resident is working towards compliance or has a hardship, they can have a conversation and then issue an extension for that same amount of time. After that, they're currently required to issue any other extensions with approval of the code supervisor. So, they have to say, "I have to go talk to my supervisor to issue another extension." What we could look at doing is changing that process and giving the code officers more um ability to make that determination in the field uh based on their interactions with residents. So in those extended timeline thing then if if they're dealing with a senior resident they could inform them of other programs or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Um and so at that point we could potentially uh do a referral if it's a possible crew situation uh or look into any programs that currently exist. Uh there's not a whole lot unfortunately. um or um what that one's really trying to get at is we had heard through some of the conversations that maybe the city wants to look at having a program whether it's volunteer-led like snowstormers or um some other type of program and so that's what I was really trying to get at with that one. Thank you,

Council Member Burns. Oh, I just had a question and but now that you're saying like we could do all of these like I'm just interested because I agree like looking into support programs for the elderly is important but like a free 99 thing we can do as the city is number is extend timelines. Mhm. Um, so I had put that second. Um, because I just think because again like we are the city and what can we do and like I think we can like offer support programs but I don't or unless like we were saying like if we do like a snowstormer's equivalent and I'm sure city attorney Hoffman has a lot of thoughts around that. I was

Well, no, there there's certainly concern with going on folks property to do things like um you know, mow the lawn. It's different than frankly just shoveling snow off a sidewalk. So, we we would there would be uh documentation associated with a program like that if it was if it was generated that had some releases. Yeah. And and the folks that are performing it do it at their own risk, but they typically provide do those releases now for things like snowstorm. It's going to be more for the property owner in this context. Yeah. And I think I don't know if anyone is as chronically online as me, but there's like all of those videos of the guy who goes and does cleans up yards for free. And there's so many videos of the city coming in and yelling at him.

Um for doing a good deed. And I don't want us to be in that position either while we're talking about support programs.

Um because content is good and that content is good. It's so relaxing. Um, but yeah. So, but I I think like that's a whole another thing. Can I just add, we will not be doing that. I just watched a video yesterday and it's horrifying and I was trying to figure out what city um the gentleman's mowing that elderly woman's lawn and officers come out and make contact. That's not within any of this conversation. So, I just want to provide that reassurance if you do watch those videos. That's not the way we provide customer service.

Thank you, city manager guy. That makes me feel awesome.

Council member Lighty, I just have a clarifying question just around honestly extending the timelines in general after looking at this. The the main one that I made a note of is the 30-day days for compliance for a dead or deceased tree. In personal experience, it took way longer than 30 days to get the dead tree out of my backyard and then the guy just left a stump there and that became a whole other issue. Is there a way just going through I mean honestly this is a lot but going through all of them and saying like hey this isn't this isn't ideal. This isn't actually something that can happen. Is that something that are is that something we're open to or is that not something we're is it only extending for residents with financial or that option?

Um so I think our code enforcement officers try to work with or I should say neighborhood services officers try to work with everybody. And so it's not just I have a health issue or a financial issue. It's also I can't get a contractor out here. I'm trying to get one and it's just taking more time than the 30 days. So

is that something where I mean just in the conversation of that clear expectation and clear standards like in our code it says we only have 30 days and so if I violate that are you going to give me that extension but then say I have to violate it again because I don't have the pay like I can't pay this guy $3,000 to dig a tree out of my yard or it's still in my yard because he didn't finish the job or things like that. Is that

then going to affect me? it I mean potentially and so when issuing an extension it's um typically if a resident is working towards a solution or has a hardship or or something but then there are sometimes where cases just cannot be resolved between the officer and understanding the violation and trying to work with education and that's when those get pushed up to a summon and that's when there it sounds really harsh summon to court and it it is uh but that's an opportunity to continue working with a resident instead of issuing fines and so that's where there's more conversations to be had. Sorry, I just really struggle with that one. Just putting all of these together just because like if I think about it, if I have that extended timeline saying like that is that is free that we can do, but my next door neighbor doesn't that there could be like that contradictory like well I I get the extended timeline because I have X Y and Z. You don't.

Yeah. And I I some of it is just is the resident working with the neighborhood services officer and acknowledging there's an issue and saying what their plan is to mitigate the issue even if it's not within the timeline. And that's when they would make a determination like yes, we should extend this because they are trying versus just not having contact or being absentee and then not addressing the complaint or the violation. Mayor Prom.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. I feel like I had some more stuff to say, but I forgot it. So, I know there was one thing though um when talking about volunteers. There is a program and council member Okondo can jump in because I truly don't remember what the name is in my brain state right now. was like volunteers across America or something, but they actually work with cities and municipalities, so they're used to working around, you know, all the legal stuff and liability stuff as well. So, that's just a thought. I can't remember what it was called. You You're free to jump in there, but um they were working, I think, with Westy. Maybe Westminster was one, maybe Broomfield is serve America.

Serve. Anyway, that's probably not relevant, but um it's just a thought because it gets a lot of volunteers and a lot of cities are having success with that stuff like mowing lawns and more snowstormers maybe. Thank you. So the reason I put uh mediation at the bottom is I just want us to be careful um because not everybody wants that

and so if like I don't want us to force mediation. It can be a question. Um I don't that one just makes me nervous. I would think we would have to sort of tread lightly on that. I don't think mediation's a terrible idea. It just makes me a little nervous. sometimes it exacerbates it instead of helping and I don't want us to be in the middle of that. Um I do think and I I don't know if I'm misreading. It says door hangers before notice of violation.

Thank you. I was like before November that seems late. That's what I was thinking and then I was like I don't think that makes sense. Um okay notice of violation. Yes, absolutely. I think we are we're definitely in agreement on education going first. And then going back to some of the things that you've heard is we have we do have support programs. We have assisted. I know city staff have gone out themselves and helped rake leaves and and clean up yards. Um because we care. Like we're not terrible, but some people also don't want the help. And that's that's also something to consider. I had extended timelines as the second but also that question it says for residents demonstrating

like it I don't know if we do we need to qualify that. I don't think we need to. I think most things could fit into other barriers like I'm working on it but I can't get anybody here. Yeah. And the Okay, that's Yeah. Council member Condo. Uh no, ma'am. I I think I failed to lower my hand on Got it. No big deal. Okay, I think we can move on.

All right, so um this is now getting back to the spectrum exercise. And this is really trying to get at the what we enforce, especially with these um code violations that are in our top 10 that um can be more aesthetic. And so we're just asking similar to the first time to put yourself on the spectrum for uh this conversation on grass and weed height. And the situation is that the turf grass is limited to 8 in per code, but the property and the property must be substantially weed-free. Um what if the grass is much higher and it could be causing a potential fire hazard, but it could just be an aesthetic complaint. I don't like how it looks. Um, should residents be permitted to maintain turf over 8 in and for how long? Um, how do we distinguish ornamental grasses from weeds? That was a question that came up in the survey and I just have an answer. Um, we use the CSU data database to determine if something is a weed. Um, is 8 in threshold the right balance or is that something we should look at changing in the code? Um, and just kind of trying to understand where everybody's falling on this spectrum.

Yep. We have six. I need three more. I like the ones in the sky. like how the circle gets bigger and they're smaller. Yeah. It'll land right on top. Okay. Is that you? Yeah. Feels right.

Oh, you're like, I'm down in the weeds. You're down in the weeds. Okay. There is sort of an Oh, well, no, go ahead. I was just going to say like I think in this case it looks like most people actually feel like unless there is a safety threat like it's dry grass that is a true fire hazard that we should go out and enforce, but there is an outlier. So, okay. Does anybody want to add or quantify qualify their rating? Council member Goff. Oh, no. I think that was we had this. So, got it. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. And I can't figure out how to lower my I got it.

Council member Noiki, can I ask how how did you all kind of land on the 8 in threshold? Maybe that's maybe that's I don't know when that was written into code. Um, but I can do some research and find out. Well, this is where I struggle because at times like I mow my lawn often, but I've also considered like what if I just let all my grass grow, you know, and then it would become Isn't all grass kind of ornamental, but then we get into the fire hazard concerns and I guess seed spreading concerns weeds.

Yeah. Okay. Council member Burns.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think there's an important part of this conversation around zeroscaping that we're not having where there's many types of grasses that you're actually supposed to keep at higher lengths and if people choose to put like and they are, you know, $3 sign grasses. And so I think like that's in another whole thing, right? And like I think in this zeroscaping thread, you know, we all had the drought conversation, this is a popular thing moving forward because water is an issue. And so, and to council member Noiki's point of like what if I just let my grass grow? Like there really are grasses you're supposed to keep at like 5 6 in. Um, that is like the aesthetic. It's supposed to help with local flora and fauna and like that is a directive. like they sell it at resource central. Um so it's like a very real thing um to consider.

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. It is a question I grilled um the officers on the other day because I was trying to make sure I had it clear in my head. Um the the regulation is specific to turf grass and ornamental and native grasses are allowed to be taller. There's that's where uh it becomes tricky at times because some residents will have weeds that they say are ornamental grasses and that's where they rely on the CSU database to determine if it's a native ornamental grass or a weed. Mayor Pro,

thank you. Well, you answered that question about turf grasses versus ornamental. Um, and do we know like what other neighboring cities have for their their grass height? I'm just curious. I did not look into that, but I'm happy to and to bring back some information. Thank you. I I would say it typically is between 8 in and a foot. But that's just a rough guide. Council member Lighty. Right. As you've talked, I have more questions. Um, looking so my first question is looking at the code again. I just keep pulling this up. It says we have illegal trees. Is there such thing as illegal grasses? We don't allow weeds. Just weeds.

Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, looking at this, I obviously do not want to see an 8 in weed in my like my neighbor's yard or my yard or anyone's yard. That doesn't seem great. But is that like does grass and weed height have to go together or can it be grass height? I think my question is how can we change the whole code is basically where I'm going because I'm like what is happening right now? Like do we have to have grass and weed together or is that is there a separate place in here where it's like grass height? Mhm. Weeds weeds or not?

There is actually a question that gets more into weeds specifically as far as the volume because the and this is probably poorly worded. We don't issue violations for properties that have some weeds less than 25% and often it's mixed in with the grass dandelions and and the the spiky ones and I don't know the name for those if you know what I'm talking about. Um, however, if it does get to a volume of over 25% and then also over 8 inches in height, then it would be potentially a grass and a weed violation. So, um, it probably should just say grass. Okay. So,

is that not a contradiction? Like if we have cuz just look now I'm seeing noxious weeds. Like if I is that not a like I I just really struggle reading this whole thing over and over cuz I'm like oh that contradicts that one and that contradicts that one. So is that like is that something that we need to change to make sure that we have clear standards instead of having five different standards that lead you five different directions?

Yes. If there are contradictions, we should be addressing it. Um if there are specific ones that you just found and you want to share those with me, that would be super helpful. Well, I think we we did have a presentation one time about the definition of a noxious weed, and that's totally different than your typical neighborhood weed. So, those are different things. Um, and I think partly that is how we came to this place, right, and all of this work and all of these discussions is because we had some questions. But when I go back to I love your cat on a leash example, uh, Council Member Goth, but it's it is true. We have neighbors that move in and they possibly could be first-time home buyers. They're very excited. Maybe they takes them a while to afford a lawn mower. They're trying to figure things out. I know for a fact I did not go online and read the municipal code when I moved here. You learn through experience what it is. And you learn by reading about it in little bits, right? Maybe we get a a water usage code reminder in the connection and then the next month we get one. It it it sort of comes to us in little teeny pieces. And I'm wondering if there's a way to come up with a user friendly homeowners guide or even resident guide um that kind of hits the high points that says hey welcome and you know you can find our municipal code here but it is often no offense Mr. Hoffman. It's very legal ease often and that's not appealing to anyone. It doesn't read it's not pretty. It's not colorful, doesn't read like a picture book. It reads like a law book and that's not fun. And so to have clear standards that are easy for residents to

consume quickly,

um I think would help with a lot of this. And as we go through this, we can we can revise the entire code, one code at a time, and that will take us probably 10 years. I think where I keep landing is is the enforcement process, right? So that previous question of how do we enforce in what order? At what point do we do we allow some grace? At what point, you know, are we a little more firm and at what point are we offering support? You know, how does the door hanger read? I had a resident share with me at a recent coffee that he still has feelings about a door hanger he got 10 years ago because it was very harshly worded and felt um didn't feel very community centered. It felt, you know, and I don't like the ones that say if you don't do anything, we're going to put a lean on your property. That there's no reason to put a threat in the notice. I think we can soften some of our language. And so those are the places that I'm sitting as we have these conversations. I I love this activity. I really do. I think it's helpful for us to get to know what everyone else is thinking. But I keep going back to but it depends on who knocks on the door and what they hand them first and what that first interaction sounds like.

I don't know sets the tone. As I'm listening to this, one of the things when the city put together the unified development ordinance, one of the I think intentional things was to put things like pictures. I'm not suggesting that we put pictures in the nuisance ordinance, but as part of this exercise, there may be an opportunity to create sort of a community book, if you will, that could be placed online that has examples of what a what a noxious weed is, what grass in excess of a given height is, just to give um the community some guidance as to what again the community sentiment is about how bad is too bad. And I think we could put that type of guidance so that much like the unleashed cat, um there there are there are standards that the community for people that are moving in will recognize with pictures.

Yeah, I like pictures. Council member Burns.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. Yeah, I think we had like talked about this like many moons ago about adding it to because you do get a welcome package when you buy a house here. I got it. That was m what the number one thing that made me fall in love with this community and want to get involved. And so like honestly like this is a weed like don't let this grow like you know cuz like my neighbors had thistles that then jumped into my jumped over our fence and into our yard and I didn't know what to do about that. Right. And so it's just like because you know I'm you know we don't live by our parents like we didn't grow up here. I don't you know that sort of thing. And so I think like adding it to that welcome package would be super helpful of like and like I had no idea that the tree in my front yard was an illegal tree. We had a Russian olive

that had been there from the previous owners and I had no idea that I couldn't have a tree like that that was just there that I inherited. Right. I mean it was it died within the first year of us living there. So we got it removed but like I didn't I had no idea that my tree was illegal. Yeah. Okay. Um, so I agree with you. I am hearing a lot of the education first and the process. So I do have two more slides that have discussion questions, but we can skip those if we don't think it's the actual codes or we can do them. It's I it's up to you all. Let's see.

I just don't want to take up all of your evening if let's see.

Okay. Um so uh the second discussion is parking on unapproved surfaces and there was some divergence with this question. Um right now the code is written that vehicles must be parked on approved hard surfaces or rock. We recently updated that in the UDO. Um there were some concerns about fire hazard that were cited. Um there were some about why do we regulate um this on private property? Um, so I have some questions with this specific discussion item as well and another spectrum exercise if you want to

say where you are. Is that all of us? No.

Oh. So, as you said, we're all over all over, right? We're we we're still a wide spectrum on this one. Um, I think I have a question. about is there a way to differentiate between um someone who has created a parking space that they're using regularly that has not been properly rocked yet and someone who comes home late after a party and parks on their front lawn by accident. I mean, like I think those are two different pictures in my head, right? If you're just like flying onto your grass for fun or if you've got seven cars out front and you need to make space, so you start pulling them all onto the lawn. That is a whole different thing than if you have a space that you're intending to rock, but you haven't bought all the rock yet.

Mhm. And it looks like a space because there's a lot of our properties that do that. And so I think there's a distinction in my brain about the two of those and I don't know if I'm the only one. Council member Burns. Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is a question for everybody. Can someone just explain to me how this is a fire hazard? I generally do not know.

I can give you this an example because um Wayne and I have gone rock hunting and off-roading and stuff and there if you park your car on dry grass, especially if it's over 8 in, it can actually spark a fire because it gets the engine is still hot or whatever, the car is hot. Okay. Okay. I mean I I mean it's in North Glenn that maybe that's not very likely but it is a possibility. So there would already be like a grass issue too in theory maybe.

Yeah. I think it would probably be unless it's maybe somebody's working on their car and there's oil and stuff. I mean I don't know but that's what comes to my mind. I have seen the burn marks under a a vehicle when they pulled away because the brown the grass got turned brown from the heat. Okay. That's helpful. But an electric car, you never know. Council member Noiki,

I think my my biggest concern with and I and I I see your point. Um my biggest concern because I have quite a few neighbors who have, you know, a lot of cars um taking up driveway front of their house. I'm concerned if this changed that then they would just start parking cars in their grass all over their yard and then neighbors my other neighbors would be I rate at that. Um so I think that's why I went a little more conservative on this one. Me too. All right. I don't know. Are we ready to Oops.

Oh yeah. go to the sorry um so this one is the one that's specific to weed control on developed lots and the ordinance is that um weeds shouldn't be covering more than 25% of the front side yards. Um and there were some concerns through the survey that this could be a financial burden on elderly or lowinccome with enforcement. Um that mode weeds should be acceptable um was one perspective and uh respect for chemical free choices. So um what constitutes substantially weed-free is 25% the right threshold. Um, should mow weeds be treated differently than unmode weeds? And um, what support can we provide residents that can't afford um, weed control?

Council member Goff.

Thank you. So, um I guess you know well I guess my question is ho how is this 25% or less communicated to people because if I saw substantially weed-free I can tell you right off the bat I know some neighbors that would be like one weed it makes it you know is like no good and so I that to me that that would be the question I mean 25% % sounds fine by me but I mean not exactly sure how you would measure it but I do think that that does need to be communicated because there are people who like you know they have very exacting standards

interesting results oh have to do that

I know I think so this came up recently um and it was brought to my attention by a resident and so I drove all around like many many streets around that area and unfortunately if you if it's way over 25% and you kill them all now you have a dirt lot and now you have a bigger problem and then you have to fix that and that is going to be hundreds of dollars if not more. Um, and so I just that said, if you maintain a weed-free yard and you are next to someone who does not, it is very very frustrating and it takes over your life, which I've experienced. So it there I think that's why I'm in the middle. But I go back to what is our approach. Right? If I drive by and from my car it's mowed and trimmed and green, I'm not probably going to prioritize that. Um, and so I think that's probably that question. Um, is is what battles are we picking, right? Do we want to say we're we'd like you to kill all your weeds and now you have nothing in your front yard and we have created a bigger mess for you? Like that's that's not helpful. So I but I keep going back to what is that process? What is the enforcement? what is the enforcement timeline? What is the education? And that's kind of I don't know. I'm just repeating myself, but that's been my thing the whole time. Council member Burns.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I also like want to bring in climate change and like our climate um because there is something that is considered a weed that is just up and down like my entire side of the street, right? And it looks like a succulent. Um, but apparently it's like a noxious weed, but it grows really well in our dry dry climate. And so it takes over because when grass doesn't grow, it grows. And I like and I also like have thoughts around like is clover a weed? No, it's not. It's just like another type of grass that grows in meadows and bunnies eat. You know what I mean? I don't like that kind of stuff. Like if if dandelions and things are going to bother you, like I don't know. I loved blowing those as a kid. So, I'm sorry to all my neighbors that I then grew dandelions in their yards, but like that's just like childhood and fun and like

good for bees and Huh. good for bees. And they're good for bees. Exactly. Um I have a ton of pollinator plants in my yard and I hope riches bees come to my yard.

Um but I think like when we talk about weed control, because I know those are in our code as considered in the 25% and I do think that is annoying. Like I think like if you have your yard is 25% thistle or the noxious weeds, I think that is a different story, right? But if it's like food for bunnies, I don't really care cuz the bunnies also love my yard and they love their new favorite thing is to move my mulch and bury themselves under my bushes and under my butterfly bushes. Um, and they live there and they sleep there when it's hot. And that is their new favorite thing because we cut out all we got rid of all of our clover. Thank you.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this one? Any strong opinions about weeds?

I don't know. Council member Sever. Hi. I'm still here. I haven't talked much lately. I'm just soaking it in. Uh I find the more you dig, the more gray there is. But um about weed control, you know, I'm in a rental situation and my front yard is, you know, has dandelions and stuff. I keep it very trimmed up.

Uh but if I were to So it's complicated, right? Everyone's life is complicated. So cats on leashes. I have a cat that is in the front yard. So, if I were to try to treat it for weeds, the cat can no longer grow out there. It's something the cat's done their entire life. So, it's like, okay, now I have to not let my cat outside to treat the weeds, but then the weeds are killed and there's no grass. And then once the tree finally blooms in my yard, it it's late, it's like in July, it takes forever. Nothing grows after that because it sucks up all the sun. So, it's like it's like I feel like I would be slapped in 10 different ways from 10 different directions and at the end of the day it's now I have a talk to a corporate landlord too about it and they're going to somehow punish me too. So, it's like I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. Um, so I just wanted to say that.

Thank you. Uh, Council Member Lighty, I would just like to second everything that you just said because that's so real. It's just like boom boom boom. You're playing whack-a-mole with all these things. Okay, this is where I'm I'm getting conf. So, just a clarification. As long as I don't have my yard is not covered in 25% of weeds or more, I can have my weeds. My weeds can hang out and as long as they're not over 8 in, my weeds are my weeds are good. Yes. So, as long as they're not noxious weeds, uh which there's How do we know? Like, how do you Well, no. Like I don't know cuz I feel like I've seen these succulent looking things but they're really pretty.

Why can't we just leave it? It was huge. It was like the size of my mailbox at one point. I should not have admitted that. But the the 25% to get back to that uh part of the question is measured by based on the area of the front yard and then the the clumps of weeds if it would basically constitute 25% or more of the whole yard. And so that's how they make that determination is by basically pretending like they've moved the weeds together to see if that would be the 25% volume of the front yard. I had questions about that too. I was going to say so now I need this is very confusing.

I'm glad. Okay. And right do we not have respect for chemical free choices of getting rid of weeds right now? Is that why it's a council concern? Um, this is pulled directly from the survey. Okay. So, I just took out some of the comments and some of the scenarios that were discussed where there was divergence. So, okay, that that is not it's just from the survey comments. Okay. I just wanted to I was like to Council Member Sever's point. I mean, my dogs go in my backyard all the time. My dogs go in my front yard all the time. Is that I would need to then figure out how to not let them go to the bathroom. I don't know. That'd be very strange. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Council member Roer.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. I have so many thoughts on this. I think one thing that keeps coming to light is we don't want to over police and I think also we have to recognize that Colorado is part of the great American desert. I mean, grass isn't supposed to be here. Um but we do have native grass and native plants which always don't look um like the white picket fence sort of thing that everyone wants. Also I think we have to look at the symbiotic relationship between you as Councilman Sever was saying if we take one thing away how it could harm the ecosystem in another way and then that'll just send us down a terrible path. All right. Um, we're getting close to the end. Um, so I have uh just um

oh

heard a lot about process and communications and so this is a little bit different than ranking. Um, this one you assign points to what you want to value the most. And so you could put it all equally, which was on purpose so that if you feel strongly about every one of these, you can give it the equal amount of points. The points work in increments of 10 and you have a hundred points to assign. I don't want to limit it to these because I heard a lot of really great ideas tonight. Um, I've been taking notes. Um, we will come back with what the recommendations are based on what we heard from this conversation to confirm. Uh, but oh, I only have 100 points. Okay, this might take me a minute to do the math. This one is hard.

Yeah, you have 100 points total. Yeah. What is happening? What do you mean? Scroll down.

Oh, you just do the arrow and you can like I made 115. What arrow on the right just Sorry, I didn't We can start. I I also thought that when I was playing around with it. So sorry guys. What?

I'm the youngest on council and I still didn't know how to use this technology. We might want to review. Oh my Why do I have three left? Oh, got stopped. Mid answer. Shoot. I think I don't know if that worked, but Well, then how come if I put 50 points come to 28? How do our numbers translate up there?

Yeah, that's a great question. I have I am sure it has to do with some sort of averages to then equal 100. I mean, I think it's summarizing what we've talked about pretty well, though.

Somebody has no self-control. Okay, I don't know how to use this. I think I messed up the mentter, but yay. Well, I see nine. So, it looks it looks like there is pretty strong consensus with proactive education followed by initial contact. And those are things I think we can quickly start addressing. Um and then some of the other items with consistency and equity, timeline, clarity and updates and contextual understanding are also things that we can look at and and come back with a plan.

Okay.

Um so really today's objectives were just to try to pull out the different priorities with code enforcement and identify specific policy changes if any. I didn't hear any strong I want to hear or you to come back with this code amendment at this time. That doesn't mean we can't in the future. I just didn't hear that. So, what I heard mostly was process improvements for communication ex maybe creating that flexibility with the timelines um and maybe looking at which is also in the strategic plan some kind of pilot program in the future. So, at our next discussion, which isn't scheduled yet, we will just come back with those recommendations and what we're doing or have already done because some of it I think we can implement right away. Um, we'll update you and then make sure we're on the right path.

That sounds good. And thank you for letting me take so much of your time tonight. So, can I ask a final question? And I know um we have another question as well, but I first of all, I want to thank you. It was a very engaging, informed, creative process to kind of get our ideas out because we were stuck and I think that was really helpful. Um, we did start the day though talking about drought. Can you share anything about how this might be connected?

Yes. So, actually the drought conversation is an ongoing conversation internally and that would be addressed as a one-off if we have to um make that declaration this year and we would decide specifically how we're going to address some of these things on a one-year drought basis or multi-year drought basis versus just the code as written. So, it will come back with a plan for that. Okay, there's two more questions. Council member Sever.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to summarize. I think the new resident cheat sheet or what council member Burns and maybe the mayor said, I think that's a great idea along with the pilot programs. I think you're on we're on the right track. It's not like we're not reinventing the wheel. We're just trying to take off some of the edges. And I think even though this can be a a long conversation and it's hard to get through the weeds themselves, uh uh I think we're getting there and I think it'll be a better situation afterwards. Thank you, Council Member Burns.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yes, thank you so much for this process. I think this was very helpful. I think too just as like help us to open up dialogue amongst each other and like ask important questions I think is super helpful. I do have a question about this process um as we're talking even in our initial survey a lot of questions had come up about ethics and codes culture. Are we going to be discussing that in the future? because I think that ties in heavily to the things we were talking about tonight with context, initial education, and that sort of thing.

Um, so I definitely plan to address how we do the process and that initial contact, which I think is leading into that culture aspect, but if there's something specific for us to bring back with that conversation, if if you can just give me a little bit more.

Yeah, I think it goes beyond that initial contact. Um, I know a lot of us have heard um specific complaints about specific individuals um how they were treated throughout the process. I think um and I think obviously there's just a lot of questions around unauthorized actions by the team that we need to address. Thank you, Council Member Roer.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. I think to build on what my fellow council mate said, I think if we what we want is a partnership. And I think that's where we need to lean into it coming at it as a partnership and not a got you or just where it puts the homeowner in a defensive stance because then we're never going to get to that partnership piece. Yeah. Council member Condo.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I I also agree with Council Member Burns and Council Member Roer. I I just I recall uh during the fall when I was knocking on doors kind of hearing some anecdotal stories. Um I'm not really wanting to share those stories here in a public venue, but I I would like to just kind of provide that feedback somehow so that uh we could do as what council member Roer is suggesting is that we we want to be a partner. We want to not necessarily make it an adversarial sort of experience. Thank you, Council Member Roer. Again,

thank you. So, sorry. Um, just again, I'm going to wrap this up with a bow, but I think also on all these points that if we, it may not seem like a big deal, the weeds or the grass or the bark or whatever, but if we establish trust with our communities through this, then they're more likely that's going to seep into more things. Whereas if we create this us versus them mentality, that will seep into more things. So an olive, it's time for an olive branch, even though they're illegal. Let's let's get

And mayor, if I could, one of one of the conversations I've been having over time, I think we've talked about how code enforcement has evolved in over the years and and is the expectations has changed. And I think from staff's perspective, if clear expectations are received from council about what the partnership piece and how to be collaborative doesn't solve all the issues, but it should help dramatically with the culture issues. Agreed. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, don't go anywhere, but I'm going to adjourn the study session. I will now call to order the special city council meeting of December 15, 2025. Sorry, I should not just rely on my on my script. I do know what day it is. Uh, special city council meeting of March 16, 2026. Will the clerk please call the role? Mayor Lightidy here. Mayor Prom Lukeman Heramasa here. Council member Burns here. Council member Severs here. Council member Condo

here. Council member Roer here. Council member Goff here. Council member Noiki here. Council member Lighty here. Thank you. If you haven't logged in yet, please do. Oh, I can't. I don't know how. Okay. Well, I'm gonna not delay. All right. I will entertain a motion that the city council meet in executive session pursuant to section 4.5E of the city of North Glenn home rule charter for pending litigation regarding the city's public facility standards. So moved. Second. Please open the vote. The vote is open.

I vote yes. Okay. All righty. I will close that vote and the motion to meet in executive session passes unanimously. We will adjourn to the executive session.