Town Council - Regular Meeting

So June 23rd, 2026, Madam Clerk, can you sign us with prayer and pledge, please?

Thank you for bringing us together today in a spirit of generosity. May we honor one another by keeping an open mind. May we voice our truth and listen with an open heart. May we discern your will to unite in a fruitful outcome. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Roll call, please.

Mr. . Here. Mr. .

Here.

Mrs. O'Hara. Mr. . Here. Ms. .

Here. Discussion by council about other action on continuation of adoption of fiscal year 26-27 proposed budget. All right, so we completed the highway last night, the capital. We completed town clerk capital.

Did we complete highway?

Yes.

I thought we did parks and rec. I didn't think we completed Highway. Oh, I'm sorry.

No, we did Parks and Rec. You're right. We said we were going to come back to Highway because we were still undecided about road repair.

So we did Parks and Rec and then the NS Little League for the lights, right?

And we also mentioned that the $500,000 for Scatter's Hall that we may come back if we want to shave some money off.

Okay. So do we want to go back to Highway? We were told we can take the heavy equipment down to 50,000, keep the plow at 65. Drainage, we said 150, is that correct? The dump of plow stays at 195, and then road repairs at 1.5, and the administrator, I believe, was at 1 million.

Ray, what did you say last night as far as how many roads could be repaired with one million?

Right now, we have an estimate for four roads at 1.1 million.

1.1?

It's going to go out to bid, so the number could fluctuate a little bit, hopefully go lower. Okay. But we're sitting on a list of probably 20, 25 major roads that need to be addressed soon.

Yeah, and then on average, how many roads do we try to do a year?

Well, if you're going to just do a two-inch mill and an overlay, you can get a lot more done. But these roads are so far gone, we have to reconstruct.

Okay.

So let's just take the four roads. Two good-sized roads, Winchester and Tanglewood, and Sorrel and Martha are the small roads. But so those, call them two and a half roads, that's $1 million right there.

Okay. And then another, an additional four would get us one more road?

Depending on which road I take and how we approach that, it's not going to get us a lot, but it'll get us something. I'll never say no to it.

Okay, okay. But you think 1.1 you'd be most comfortable with if we did have to shave it down a little bit? Okay.

I think I said last night, I can't remember what everybody agreed to on the heavy equipment. That's been reduced to 50,000. If you needed that, then I could live with that without it this year.

The three quarter ton pick up with plow, is that just one?

That's just one.

That's actually not a bad deal. All right, so I guess we're looking at then, based on what the director said, heavy equipment would go down to 50.

Mm-hm.

And road repair would go to 1.1. Yeah, and drainage down to 150.

So it looks like that would be 1.56, right, Tony?

That gives us how much, Tony? So 2.1 minus 1.5? If we're looking to see how much we're saving.

Yeah, 2.16 to 1.56.

In capital. Okay. Okay.

So if we did only the 150, would 150 still stay in revenue and the other piece not be affected or would we just do 150?

If you guys want two of them done, I would bump that back to 300 and the revenue side would pick that up. It would pick up the extra 150 so that- We're really only spending 150. Correct.

That just sounds like money from your left pocket or your right pocket still comes out of your pocket.

A pocket. It's an interesting way to look at it. You know what I mean?

What's the matter, what pocket it comes out of?

I think, speaking with the administrator today about this, do you want to just put the Palm Hill Colgate, which we're almost ready to go with, I think that's what we're talking about, but now we're trying to ask the question, would 150 still? It's up to council. Because you did like an in and out, right? Is that what you're doing?

Yeah, so like the director said, if it comes down to it and we have to spend it, we're going to overspend anyways. So it's going to come out of fund balance one way or the other. Either the council allows the expense to be there and then we spend it, or when the emergency comes around and we spend it and then we request for council approval, depending on timing of the situation.

So when you're doing this and you're saying you're taking it out of the general fund, basically, for the revenue side? Mm-hm.

Okay. Yeah, I'd put that back to 300, and then I'd put 150 on the revenue side for use of fund balance, just like with Scouter's Hall. But it's the council's decision at the end of the day, it's which way we do it.

So you just keep it like we just had it.

150?

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, if it's going to come out of the- In the event of emergency, it comes out of fund balance.

Yeah. So you might as well just put the 150 expense in and not hit the fund balance right now.

Keep it. Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah.

Okay. But that's roughly 600,000 in savings. Let's just call it savings.

Okay. So are we comfortable on that for right now?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So is it 4864592?

do we want to make a motion, like rescind and make a new motion, or do we want to wait until we're done with all capital items?

Could I just ask a question? Do you still have the $50,000 in for the heavy equipment, or are we going to zero that out? Yeah. So I guess what I'm trying to say is you can take that out for this year.

You want the whole $100,000?

You can zero that out for this year.

Oh, okay. Oh. Okay.

I just want to say this year.

You're being super generous.

Let's give him 50 back for a foot of road. Maybe two feet.

All right, so.

$4,814,592.46.

We might as well take care of it and then if we want to go back, we can just rescind again. Okay, okay. Once it's done, right?

Okay. Do we know what the, we don't have to say the original amount when we rescind, we can just say, because we all- I have it right here. Okay, so 4914. Okay, I will make a motion to rescind the original What are we doing? Highway department budget in the amount of $4,914,592.46. and make a motion to- No, second.

Oh, sorry, I always do that. Thank you. Second.

We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Roll call? Mr. Biergaard?

Yes.

Mr. Cristofaro? Yes. Mr. Punchak?

Yes. Ms. Alves? Yes.

Okay, I will make a motion to approve the Highway Department budget in the amount of $4,814,592.46. Can you identify the changes? The changes that were made were capital changes. We reduced capital expenditures in the amount of $650,000, removing highway equipment, reducing drainage repairs, and road repairs.

So drainage repairs will be reduced by 150, heavy equipment by 50,000? No, 100,000.

Heavy equipment by 100,000. By 100,000?

No, 100,000.

And then road repairs in the amount by 400,000.

Yeah, but that's not right though. Because in our town council number, we only had 50. So we reduced our number by 100,000 exactly. Yes, we reduced.

Yes.

But when we did the floor nine, there was only 50,000 in there for heavy equipment. So we didn't reduce it 100. We reduced it 50. We reduced it 50. Okay. We reduced and we increased the road repair by 100,000.

Oh, this is going to be fun tonight. Okay.

Right?

Do we need the detail? What if they do an operational? Do we need to be able to understand the environment?

to this item, I think we should.

I think it's just hard to retroactively know now what we changed because we have the original actuals and we don't have. I just told you. No, I know. But I'm just saying. I know, David. But I'm saying moving forward because if we've made similar adjustments, we're going to have to remember. So unless you remember every single one, then you can make the motion. We'll just have to see what's on here.

The number that we approved, if we change something prior.

Have at it, David. The motion is all yours. Go right ahead. Oh, you're good.

No, so we did actually decrease the heavy equipment by 100,000.

Not from the number we approved. Here's the number we approved, 4,914,592.46. Add 50,000 for heavy equipment, add the 300,000 for drainage, and add a million for road repairs. So by our change, we took out the 50,000 for the heavy equipment. We took out 150,000 for But we added 100 for road repairs, net $100,000 deduction.

All right, the clerk has all that.

Okay. So there's the motion.

All right, so you made the motion?

She made the motion.

Okay, you want a second? I'll second it. Okay, so a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Yes.

Mr. Cristofaro? Yes. Mr. Ponchak? Yes. Ms. Alves? Yes.

Okay.

Do we want to go to police? Well, we didn't approve any capital for police, did we?

It was in their budget.

It wasn't? It wasn't their proposed. Well, let me see. Sorry. I don't want to speak out of turn here. I'm sure I'll be corrected.

Aw. Aw.

No, we approved $32,286.37 for the police tasers and then $77,858.67 for the cruiser replacement. And that was it. Town Administrator, you had only proposed $15,000 for the police tasers. What was your logic there? No, on the original expenditure detail, you had only proposed $15,000.

So it's a typo.

It's a typo. So our contract is 32,000. I saw that too, yeah, I saw it. Okay.

I think it's a typo.

Okay.

Well, I know it is, it's not the right number.

Okay.

So Chief, with the body cams, so what is going on because- The body cams are a state money grant, so I put in capital for that $40,500. Yeah, so they're 100% reimbursable.

So anything that's 100% reimbursable through a grant, it lives through the grant fund. If there's, say there was like a 10% match for it, I would put that 10% match in the capital line at that time.

So is this going to be just like one of those in and outs too for the 41? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then there's only one cruiser in the town council budget, is that right, for 77,000? So what's sitting in the capital budget for town council is the tasers, one cruiser, and then the portion of the body cams for the expense side. Yeah, you wouldn't- We don't have to approve that at all.

You don't have to approve that at all, because that's not going to live in the general fund anymore. Okay. Since it's 100% reimbursable.

So then really those two items come up to $110,145.04. So we've already approved that, right?

Do we have to take the $32,000 out, though?

No, the tasers are fine. It's the body cams that's- Yeah, it's the body cam. Unless you want to remove the tasers.

No, it's the same company, but they provide different products. And the state is supporting the grant for 100% for the body cams, not the tasers.

Gotcha.

Okay, so we're basically all set with the police, right, if we approve this? Okay, since we already approved it. EMA.

Didn't we not approve EMA because we were still talking about the- That was those licenses.

I had looked into it. So that was supposed to be charged to EMA. It's a one time every ten years type of charge. And obviously we don't have that long of a history to show for actuals. We won't have that for another ten years, and previously it was actually free, but now we have to pay for it through the state. So that's why the actuals for current year are so high.

So these radios for EMA, is this a grant or anything, or is this just straight?

No, this is straight up through the budget. But what it is, there is a typo on the budget. For this year, it's for the purchase of one desk-mounted radio in four portable radios, not three and seven.

So is the pricing correct, though?

Yes, the pricing is correct.

And is this to replace what they currently have, or?

Yes, we have radios that are coming offline through the 800 system in June of 28, so we're starting to go to the APX model of radios and getting away from the older models so that we have proper communications.

Okay.

What's the lifespan?

I'm sorry?

What is the lifespan?

Of the radios, you're looking at maybe 10 to 12 years.

And then Chief, how many need to be replaced in totality?

I'm sorry?

How many need to be replaced in totality?

When we finish buying all of the radios, we'll have 12 portable radios and three desk mounted radios.

Okay.

Those will go into the EOC downstairs.

So we'd rather not incur that cost all at once, we'll just?

Correct, yeah. Next year in my capital, I budgeted out for the remaining two desk mounted radios and three more portals, and then we'll be done. OK. And that's even subject to change. We're still in the fact finding phase of looking at the EOC and what we absolutely have to have and what we don't.

So it seems like a need.

So David, just for clarification, because we already approved this budget and we're just going through the capital, should we just confirm that we're approving and take a motion of this capital at the cost?

I think once you make whatever changes you want to the capital, I would just make a motion to approve the capital. Okay.

In this department though- We didn't do anything. Correct. You have to approve their department as a whole. This is the only department that wasn't approved as a whole. Because we're waiting on those licenses, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

All right, so we have to do this whole, okay. So does anyone have any other questions on EMA?

No.

I will make a motion to approve the EMA budget in the amount of $44,249.44 including capital items.

Second. That's a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Roll call please.

Mr. .

Yes.

Mr. . Yes. Mr. . Yes. Ms. . Yes.

No Smithfield Fire and Rescue.

I just wanted to bring something to your attention just real quickly. Throughout this process, we had put in for, you'll see on there, $75,000 for upgrade on our dispatch console. and throughout that process we were also looking into the potential of tying into the police department's new console that they're getting because that can be done through fiber and and whatnot throughout that process we found out that's going to be cost prohibitive That's going to be quite a bit of money between running fiber to the station and the actual cost for us to hook up. So that's why we're looking to go to an independent system in our own dispatch center. Problem with that is this number is about $6,000 shy. So in order to make that work, I can put $5,000 from the computer rated the CAD software upgrade, computer rated dispatch. If we can move $5,000 into the console, that would help out. And then I can also drop my protective clothing from $36,750 down to $35,000. And that should give me enough money to be able to purchase the

Because you need 81, is that what you're saying?

Yes. And actually, that should be able to get us into the CAD software, because the first year of that is only 30,000. So we'll be able to do that, and then next year's number can come down.

And then Chief, why are these numbers grayed out for replacing the rescues?

That's all money that we in finance talk about every year.

Yeah, I can speak to that. So this is a, the council can approve it now or once the general fund is done. But I'm not allowed to, so this lives in fund 120, not in the 101, which is the general fund. I don't have the power to be able to obligate funds for capital. So you guys need to just pass a motion that allows me to move these funds obligated towards those four vehicles for police in fund 120, which is the EMS fund. That's why they're separate.

Okay.

It's still considered capital, just like you would be approving capital in water and sewer. It's the same way.

What I would caution is that these numbers are, going to get us anywhere near a new fire truck.

I heard, what is it, average fire apparatus, not like 750,000?

No, the newest engine that we just bought three years ago, I had it priced out, same exact spec, with some minor adjustments with the EPA and all that kind of stuff. We bought that truck, I believe it was for like 595. We bought that truck last year. It was going to be a million one.

So, the lifespan of that truck?

Right now, my replacement schedule for engines is 12 years.

The administration working with the chief actually put together a spreadsheet with the projected lifespan and the money coming in through the money we're getting back from insurance companies.

People online can't hear you talking to me. I'm sorry.

Tony and the chief worked on preparing a spreadsheet that identifies the amortization of those vehicles based on their projected useful life. And then shows the money coming in through third party billing. And it shows that over the last three to four years, it's completely turned upside down, where the money that we're collecting, and we're only down takes half. the money through third party billing and the other half goes into the fire department would not be sufficient to replace the capital.

So the idea of what we had come up with, one of the ideas, I don't know Scott, you want to discuss taking that out of the revenue?

Yeah, when is the first vehicle supposed to be replaced?

The next vehicle would be a rescue in rescue two, and I believe that's in two more years. But the next significant expense would be engine one, and I believe that's in 2033.

Okay, so we're not going to address that issue today, but I think it's part of the next year budget process. That's got to be front and center in terms of how we're going to right size that so These vehicles do mature that we have the money in place to buy them. If not, we're going to have to take them out of fund balance. And I think it's a bad habit to get into.

So we're doing this to put it in reserve, is that what we're doing?

It'll still live within fund 120, but it'll be marked as capital within that fund. Similar to water and sewer where it all exists within water, but then there's funds set aside for capital items under 5900. Same thing for fund 120. We obligate them towards those and they over time go towards those apparatus.

Also, the auditors, when they look, they always test capital purchases. They look and trace it back to the minutes to see that the town council approved all capital purchases. So if you don't approve us to purchase the capital out of fund 120, they would end up writing us up for that. We need your approval to make those purchases.

Chief, what's happened on the cost on the rescues?

The rescues are still going up significantly. The one that we currently have on order, I think it's pushing $500,000. And that's for the rescue itself. We still need to buy the ancillary things, which is the stretcher, the power load system, and a radio. So we're looking at probably another $90,000 by the time we're done.

And we need that in two years.

Well, I've got a rescue on order now. So rescue one will be due in another, I believe it's two years, could be three.

And what's the delivery schedule on those, timeline?

Well, right now we've been waiting almost a year and a half for the one that we have on order. And the projection was two to two and a half years for delivery.

We buy them outright though, right?

We do.

Why not finance it? What's the rate?

I don't know, I haven't looked at any of that. I don't even know if you can do something like that with an emergency vehicle.

We actually have a meeting scheduled, is it next week, Tony? We have a meeting scheduled next week with a firm that looks at these things both from a purchasing standpoint as well as a financing leasing standpoint. So we hope to have a better analysis of the cost benefits of those options. A lot of towns like North Kingstown, for example, they do a lot of leasing on their vehicles.

they don't purchase i mean that may be an option but i i would caution that you know something needs to be done the rescues we could probably pull off out of the third party billing account you know we as a whole the town the department has enjoyed being able to purchase the vehicles outright from the third party billing when the pricing was where it was now it's getting to be so

If the numbers are right, then maybe regardless of how much money we have in third party billing, it'd be crazy to buy it outright.

And that certainly is something worth looking into, but if it's not, we're looking down the barrel of a very expensive piece of fire equipment in 2033.

So one more time, Tony. I want to make sure that I'm following. The requests here that are grayed out.

Yeah, so what, and to point of order would be to approve the capital in the North Smithfield Fire Department itself on your general fund, on the big paper. And then separately on your capital, the council would make a motion to approve the four items there in gray. Two separate motions, and then the ones in gray would be listed out. So 15,750 for Rescue 1 and so on and so forth.

So the 165 is only the items that are not going into 120, right? Correct. Okay. So Rescue 2 is at 110, is that because that's the one that's due in a couple years?

Yes.

That's why it's at that higher rate?

Yes.

So are you essentially just looking for us to allocate money to the 120 account so that when we have to complete these purchases, we have a repository of money just building up?

So when they do EMS, half of it goes into the general fund and half of it goes towards that fund 120. Mm-hm. All the funds that exist within that 120, I'm looking to council that allow me to obligate those funds towards these apparatuses, yes.

Okay. But that doesn't affect the budget because that's already restricted?

Yeah, it's its own fund.

Anyone have any other questions regarding the capital for the fire and rescue? Anyone want to make a motion?

Are we all set with the changes, the juggling of the money that I?

Yeah, you did 35 for the protective set clothing. The radio stayed the same. The dispatch is going to 81, and then the CAD upgrade is going down to 30. To 30, correct.

Yeah.

So I will make a motion to rescind our previous budget for the fire department.

Do we want to say the amount?

We haven't. The original amount. $5,220,947.94.

That's a motion, is there a second? Second. All in favor, I'm sorry, any other questions?

Can I just ask what we're backing out? Are we backing out the- We're getting rid of the whole thing now, and then we got to make a new motion. Backing out the 120 stuff, correct? Fund 120. The fund 120 was never part of that. That's not even- That's going to be a separate, yeah.

Okay. Any further discussion?

Roll call? Mr. . Yes. Mr. . Yes. Mr. . Yes. Ms. . Yes.

All right, and then we need to make a motion to authorize this transfer to the 120, correct?

We don't have, well, we need his recommendations first to change the number.

Yep, I already have the changes reflective on the sheet right now. The council just needs to re-approve the five, well basically the same number, just moving around the funds in the capital. And then once that motion has been approved, then yes, a separate motion for the fund 120.

Okay, so- So the amount doesn't change, it's the same amount, we're just changing in the dollars.

And we just have to delineate what's changed.

All right, so 81,000.

Okay, so I'll make a motion to approve the budget for Noting that changes were made to capital expenditures. Protective clothing was changed from $36,750 to 35,000. What? 35,750. 35,007. 35,007. No, you said 35,000 in total. Right. So not 35,000. Okay. No.

We dropped it to 35,000. Do you want it?

You got to change your number then? Yeah. Do you want the dispatch center radio to be 81,000?

That's going to be 81, yes. Even? Well, if it rounds it up, we can make it 81,750. All right. All right.

Okay.

Okay, so protective clothing in the amount of 35,000. The dispatch console upgrade now reflects 81,750,000. And the CAD software upgrade, formally 35,000, now reflects $30,000. That's a motion, is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? Roll call? Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

So now you need a motion for the transfer. I will make a motion to transfer 15,000.

Just approve it as straight capital, just like you would here.

Capital purchase from fund 120.

Because we're not transferring funds from anywhere, but you still need to approve it. So approve it as a capital- Capital transfer. Not a transfer. Capital? Just capital. Because we're not transferring it from anywhere. It's staying within the same account, the same fund that exists within. Capital appropriation.

Perfect. So these funds are already in that account? Correct. Okay, got it. Yes, yes. I thought we were moving, okay. You're freezing in this spot. So we're basically just- Allowing them to allocate this money. Basically.

Okay. So is it allocating?

Appropriation, allocating, obligating.

Motion to allocate the following funds for the following items in fund 120. $15,750 to replace rescue one. $110,000 towards the replacement of rescue two. $75,000 towards the replacement of engine one. And $75,245 towards the replacement of engine two. That is my motion.

That's a motion. Is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Mr. Birrigan?

Yes.

Mr. Cristofaro? Yes.

Mr. Punchak?

Yes.

Ms. Owles?

Yes. Okay. Nelsonville Heritage Association.

Just flip through all these pages to find it, Tony. Okay.

It's at the very end, at the bottom of general government. Page 12. Page 12, so I was told. It's now coupled with the Memorial Town Hall new sign.

Okay.

Now is this a grant or anything or is this just straight request?

Mr. Keene.

Hi, Rich Keene, 7 Banford Street.

Yes, this is a straight up request for the town. Yesterday we also submitted an application for a grant from the Champlin Foundation for $78,000 to replace the rest of the windows. We won't find out until probably September if it's going to be approved or how much will be approved, if anything. But this 20,000 is separate from the The grant application. So if the stars align, if you approve the 20,000 and they approve all of the funding for the rest of the windows, that'll be the end of the window project.

And this will fund two windows?

This will fund two large windows, yes.

Like similar to your request last year?

Exactly, same exact type of request, yes.

So Tony, question for you, why is the $6,000 just under the town council budget and not under any other budget requests?

Because it just came up, I think, two or three weeks ago. It was just discussed.

So this didn't go through the usual capital process?

the time between the budget committee's finalization in late May, and then now is when it came up as an item to be considered.

Richard, how's the upstairs coming along?

It's coming along. Sorry, it's for this town hall, sorry. It's for this town hall.

Yes, we're getting pretty close to having it.

It's for this town hall, sorry.

The sign out front?

I think that was the best thing. That was a great move to lease that to you guys for a dollar a year. Because that building would be falling apart right now if it was just sitting empty.

Thank you. You guys did a great job. It's a beautiful building.

Okay, does anyone have any other questions about the capital request?

No, and I don't think, I mean, I at least don't, but I don't think any changes have to be made since we already approved ours, right? Yeah. Looking forward to that new sign.

Okay. But you said, Dave, you said just make a motion to approve it, right?

Yeah, we did, 1,832,178.85. Yeah, yeah.

So we just have to put on record that we're approving the capital for 26,000 within general government total of the 1.8.

1.810?

No, 1.822.

Didn't we already approve that?

Yeah, but David said we should just approve, just to go ahead and approve again that we're approving the 26,000 of capital. in the general government that's included in the 1.8. Okay, so I'm going to need your number.

I will make a motion to approve the North Smithfield Heritage Association capital expenditures in the amount of $26,000 within the general fund, the general government account in which factors out to be $1,832,178.85. Second. That's a motion and a second.

Any further discussion? Roll call, please.

Mr. Berrygod? Yes. Mr. Cristofaro? Yes. Mr. Punchak? Yes. Ms. Alts? Yes.

All right, so now we're back to schools. I think we're going to hold off because they said they wanted the $200,000 to go into- Yeah, I mean we have to look at their budget and unless we want it because then we're basically

done with the general fund and we can look at our number and before we go to water and sewer okay did we finish so we we approved the field day press box repairs in the amount of seven thousand two hundred and fifty dollars yeah that was with um parks and rec okay so can we get a number from tony or is it still too early for that less the school right now yeah

So can we get a number where we're standing?

Levy?

Maybe, do you want to just put in the town council number for the school? Yeah, just throw that. Put the town council number in for the school and just see where we're at.

And which number? Are you talking about the 200,000 into the appropriation?

No, we're just talking about the town council budget line in for school.

324848.

right yeah yeah he had his that was just shown was a hundred thousand higher yes

What's the number?

Yeah, we're waiting to pay the breath.

So 32,488,726 is the- No, what's the levy? Yeah. Levy, okay, all right. Now you're looking for the levy. It is at 3.663.

3.663?

Correct.

What were we last year? Two something? One. 1.997 something.

Okay. Okay.

And what was it originally before we made some of the changes?

3.54. Yeah. So we went up.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go.

I have a note that we could

Can I ask you a question, Donna, over there? What was the, after you guys made a couple of changes and stuff, what was your number that you were requesting in the end? Can you just give us a refresher on that?

475,000. So the results have also 0.79%.

right tell me slower again please i'm sorry 175 000 plus it's moving the 200 000 from capital

and then an additional $100,000. So in total, $475,000. But it's really just $100,000 more, but it would be moving the $200,000.

So basically, we're adding $300,000 to the maintenance of effort, right?

That's all going to come back in next year.

No, $400,000. Well, I'm saying in addition, yeah.

So what if, just throwing this out there, I'm just throwing it. What if we gave you, kept the 200 in capital and just gave you the extra 100? And then we're not committing to the extra money, the extra $200,000 in maintenance of effort.

We'll be cutting the position.

Can I just ask a question? So last night I asked what kind of surpluses you have annually. So what can you use those surpluses for? You can't use it for operations, it can only be capital? You can use it for capital. Okay, so you have between $100,000 and $300,000 surplus that you could use for capital, right?

Right now we have 202,000 at the end of this fiscal year that would go into- I'm sorry, how much? 200,000. Okay, so the 200,000 you're looking for. That goes into the fund balance, and yes, we can use fund balance for capital.

So you're adding 202 this year to what?

It goes into the fund balance.

What is the number? What is the number you're adding 202 to? No. He's adding 202 this year to something.

Right, which was the surplus, right? The 202? Okay, so where is that going?

Into the fund balance. We can't use it to operate.

But you can use it for capital? Yes. Okay, so you have $200,000 of surplus. From this year, plus- From this year, but then another, but you're looking for 200,000, so- But we can't use it to operate. No, but you can use it for capital.

Right? So the capital line that we're asking for is needed in our operating budget. So that's why we're asking you to move the $200,000 for capital into our operating budget because we don't have the funds, so we have to make major cuts.

That's basically what we're asking for. So yes, I understand what you're saying.

We have the money, the $200,000 in capital, and we have the excess money to move into the fund balance. What we don't have is the operating budget. That's why we're asking the request would be $200,000 moved from capital because we have the fund balance to offer.

Gotcha.

Just to maintain stability.

And the capital that we allocate, it generally falls under the top of the bag. I won't say trying to get 35% reimbursement, which goes into a joint account between the school department and the town hall.

So is there an answer to my question yet?

How much is in your phone?

So while she's working on that, you said you have to cut positions. What positions offhand do you think you'd be cutting?

So, to get down to this number that we asked for, that sort of compromised number, we were going to hire another multilingual learner teacher. That position doesn't exist right now. We have two, we were calling for the other three. An elementary reading specialist. One that We have next year seven first-grade classrooms. We have part-time literacy specialists of IA's literacy assistance in kindergarten and first grade. So we were going to retain the kindergarten literacy folks part-time and cut the first grade. I'd love to keep those.

And then we're adding 202 to that.

I just, and don't take offense by this, okay, but I just find it, so unfair that the people that we'd be cutting would be those people, those important people. And I'm not in your field, but it seems to me like A guidance counselor in the elementary school? I mean, that's a little, do we really need a guidance counselor in the elementary school compared to someone who, an ESL teacher or one of those other physicians you mentioned? And if you're really weighing it out.

And again, we do weigh it out. And these aren't random, arbitrary decisions. I wish you could see the work that they do at the elementary. Which is? No, and I'm not picking.

I don't even know this person. But are you telling a kid in fifth grade that he should be maybe taking shop and not college prep?

You're thinking of that high school counselor. The position is more. It's not actually called guidance counselor anymore. It's a school counselor. So they take on many more roles than just what you want to be when you grow up.

It might be a premature question, but do you have an understanding of what you'll need to request next year?

So, an actual number, from what RIDE is telling us, because of the windfall from last school year, which I was not in this district, but I understood that this district got a windfall, and that, because we asked for 0%, and we are now looking for something better. They told us to prepare, and these are not hard numbers, for $600,000 to $700,000 or more.

for next year

The formula that exists obviously at the back end is not in our favor because of next year and we know that. We are all aware that we are going to have to cut even more next year.

And a lot of that is determined on property values and the ability to tax and it falls within that funding formula. Last year, when we got everything, we actually got the funding formula without a penalty. Now we're moving to the penalty stick cases because their formula seems to think that the town has more capacity to generate revenue. Then they perhaps be reality. So that's just the way it falls. And the other frustrating thing is that we lost $100,000 from the governor's initial proposal. And they do enrollments in October. That's based on the governor's initial proposal in January. And then they recalculate in March. we lost students. The students we lost were students that families decided to switch to homeschooling. Families that switched to homeschooling because their student was failing or truing and often it's to avoid truancy support or having to do summer school, they pull mid-year to homeschool And then they come out at the end of the year and say, you did everything, you passed, you was, you know, there every day. And so they go to the next year and they crash start. So, but we took a penalty for the state aid for education.

Okay, I do remember discussing that at our joint meeting. So you're asking for the... You're asking, the amount of money that you're asking for is essentially to fill the gap with state aid. Okay, so you're asking for roughly, I think when we last spoke you said that this year we'd be short like six or, like you'd be asking us for around six or 700,000 in town appropriation. Okay, so now it looks like you're asking for the 772. We're saying 175, but you're saying let's move the two, add another one, that brings us up to 475 in total. And yes, we have the maintenance of effort that we need to consider, but in theory, given the gap in state aid, we're still short roughly $300,000. in town appropriation. So next year, we're going to look at another $600,000 to $700,000 gap, but we're still behind at least $300,000 because we didn't fill the entire gap. We didn't make you guys whole. Okay. So in theory, you could come next year and say, okay, we need $700,000 gap, but then you also didn't make us whole last year, so you could look for more next year, in theory.

Yeah, I mean, that's... We are approaching this year very...

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And I don't know. We also have one of the things that we feel the talent within our budget are a lot of the state unfunded mandates. There's a big one coming up. over the next few years in which all of our teachers are going to have to get training on multilingual learnings. So our art, music, you know, the elective areas, they have to get 15 hours worth of training. And then any classroom teacher who has multilingual students in the classroom needs to get re-graduate credits to get their endorsement. And that's an unfunded mandate. And so we're trying to work that out as well alongside you. did this with the Science of Reading Act, which cost us hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to train all of our reading people in the science of reading for dyslexia. And it cost hundreds and hundreds of thousands, but we absorbed that. By just being creative, I don't wanna say creative, just being, you know, very cognizant of the budget and the need and projecting and prioritizing.

And that's not something you can use a fund balance for? No. Okay, because it's considered operating even though it's a one-time.

So things like with the fund balance, the windows that we replaced at the high school, a lot of that came out of the fund balance. Plus, we were also able to get a 35% reimbursement, which went into the joint fund between the school department and the county. So again, it's just trying to very wisely use this money and get as big of a bang for the buck. But when it comes down to it, we still have... Our operational costs. Fuel goes up. Contractual obligations go up. Transportation goes up. The reason we have the $200,000 surplus, as you call it, is largely because we're collecting revenue for students to go to our CTE program in high school.

Tony, can you just put in the 475 and let's see how that impacts the levy? You know what I'm saying? Let's just put it in. No, keep the cap, well, I mean, yeah, but the capital could really stay the same if we're just looking at numbers right now, right? Just add $100,000 to the 175. What?

You have to add the capital into the expense side because it's going to hit your levy.

Okay, so then.

Unless you're going to take it out of your.

No, zero out the two and then just do 475 for the town appropriation.

3.938% levy. And what was it previously? 3.6. 3.6? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So just, Tony, does this have the higher collection rate in it? So really, we would be above that.

Because you increase the collection rate.

So that gave you like an extra $200,000.

Because that's been taking away, that's our surplus every year. Right.

So the only concern I would have is if there's a recession or something, you have to lower it back down, then you're kind of in a $200,000 hole the next year. And then I think this also, this levy is saying we're going to pay for the police bond out of reserves too. So in two years or whatever, that would be another deficit.

Thank you.

Tony, just to see, could you take out the 200,000 capital for us and just add $100,000 to operations? So 275? 3.387. What? 3.387. How could it go down?

200,000.

Are you keeping the 200,000 in capital? No, he took it out. Took it out. Took it out. Okay. So we're moving capital for the school, okay? And we're adding 100,000 to the MOE. Correct. Okay, yeah, that's 3.387. So we're taking away their capital and giving them 100,000 in MOE.

I mean I totally understand what you're saying but every year we always cut from the town and every year we always get this extra request from the school and we always do it. I know last year we went back and found 136,000 because that's what they asked for. And we're always short changing the town side. This year we need some extra positions on the town side. We need some infrastructure. i i just i don't know but really i mean i i agree but that that is the town side like we're all we do i understand that but every year we're always finding more we go back and we always cut to give more and more and more but we're just going to keep increasing our maintenance of effort

You might see in our process, too, because we keep cutting back because we may originally ask for 3.5%. We usually land around 2%, still below the cost of living increase to run the operation. So we have to still keep making the effort. But honestly, we will make work whatever you deem is available. And I almost hate to mention some of the positions that you put that card in, because now you're questioning those. It's not about giving you some examples, but letting you know that based on involvement, based on need, we will reduce and we will add. But ultimately, if you look back over the ten years I've been here, we have less staff than we started with, than I inherited. I don't know if you saw the breakdown of the state averages for pupil expenses. North Smithfield is $5,000, $4,000 per pupil, less than the state average. Less on administration, less on teaching, less on facilities and maintenance. Yet, we're in the top five districts when it comes to student achievement. You're very proud of what we do and what a very efficient operation. I just wish I had the ability to articulate it better. But ultimately, though, we will do what you need.

I don't think we have a lot. There's a lot of towns out there that really do a lot of stuff for the residents. We don't really do a lot, but we have great schools. And I think that it's important that we keep that going. That's what makes our property values go up. Because we have good schools, and that's what makes North Smithfield a very attractive town for people to come here. And I'm not going to name any other cities in the state, but people live in those cities and they want to be able to move to North Smithfield someday. And that's a great compliment to the schools. And I think it's important that we, I'm not suggesting we give, what I suggested was a cut actually, but I think it's reasonable.

If I may, I'm sorry. Alicia is not here tonight, but she had some definite thoughts after last night's meeting, and she sent them along to me. And I would just like to read you a thought that she had, which is, I think, extremely relevant. She says that the school department is routinely asked to justify every dollar that we spend. We are the largest department in town government. We educate the community's children. We maintain multiple facilities. We transport students. We provide special education services mandated by law. We employ hundreds of staff members. Yet somehow, the conversation consistently becomes about what we can eliminate rather than what we need to be successful. And at some point, the conversation really needs to shift from what can the schools cut to what level of educational services does this community expect and deserve for its students. And I think that's very, very well said. And I think you really feel that our compromise proposal last night was reasonable, was responsible, and it recognizes your challenges while still advocating for our students, because that is our job.

Is there anywhere else we can look in the budget?

Well, there's a lot. We can start at the top and we can... I don't mind. We'll stop from the top and go through it again, but... Make your motion. To what?

To what you...

Okay. So my motion is that... Can't really see anything, but my motion is that off the town council's recommendation for the budget, we increase this operations for the schools $100,000, and we decrease capital $200,000.

But they were requesting $475,000.

No, they were requesting to take the capital and put it in. Correct. They were requesting that we take the capital and put in the maintenance of that.

So that's what you're making a motion on, moving the capital?

No.

No. 100,000 on it. Just 100,000.

We're just increasing the town appropriation by 100,000 and moving the capital.

So the town appropriation, 275, zero capital.

Correct. If you disagree, I want to hear it. I mean, seriously.

Is that your motion?

That's my motion.

I'll second for discussion. I guess so we lost 300,000 from this, I'm just thinking like next year. So you're going to make cuts this year, you're going to make cuts again next year because of the state. And we're going to be right at the same spot because everything else is going to keep changing and the state's going to keep cutting. So why isn't someone at the state house lobbying against all of these crazy things you need to do? If they keep increasing costs and things you were talking about, new programs and new certifications. and they keep cutting funding, seems to me like there's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed. Our problem, however.

Right, but if we have a year out, so at least the schools can be proactive, and we know going into the budget process, but I would hope that even though you guys are telling us to be proactive, that It's going to be a bad year next year, so the school needs to be proactive, too.

We anticipate every year being a bad year.

I'll tell you what. Why don't we do this? I'll rescind my motion, and we'll split it. So they wanted three. We give them 150. No capital.

No capital.

No capital.

So that's 325.

They wanted three in addition to the ones that, what do you?

No, they wanted us to take the capital, the 200 capital, put it into operations and add $100,000. Which would have brought us to 475. For a total of $300,000 on our rent. 475.

Rebecca was referring to the $475,000 increase from prior year.

Yeah, yeah. But he's referring to the movement of, yeah, yeah.

We're kind of talking about the same thing, right?

Yeah.

Kind of, but you're saying chop that in half, make that 150,000. Correct. Yes, Rebecca, yes.

So change this right here, this would go to- I think you better clarify exactly- All right, so basically, on the spreadsheet, town appropriation school, the town council net change is $175,000. Yes. Okay, the next item they were asking for would be the capital transfer school $200,000. Yes. It's $375,000 plus an additional 100. So the easiest way for me to look at this is town appropriation school. If we're saying we're going to put 150 on that, now their net appropriation increase is $325,000. Yes. On the product of Lincoln School System.

Yeah, what he said. For an MOE. Well, I got a lot of head nods, yes. Thank you. Thank you for explaining.

So rather than 475 request.

Yes. We're saying 325.

Correct. So yes, the MOE would increase by 1.47%. Can you give the number? The clerk. Why? I need approval first.

That's not a motion. Is that a motion?

No, so that's a question. You rescinded his motion. I did. So that would bring us, what would that do to the levy then?

So we're saying 325, not 475, 325 net change.

Yes. 3.525. 3.525. What happened to 3.31?

We just added. You just bumped it up. You bumped it up. Oh, I did, you're right.

You should go back to the way it was.

Yeah.

Because we still have water and sewer, we.

I mean, is there anywhere else in here that we need to reconsider? We talked about that contingency fund last night. Where was that?

Remember, the contingency fund isn't levied. So you changing the contingency fund won't do anything.

Okay, thank you. I mean, I still had an issue with that one, but either way, okay. Well, it took me last night thinking on it.

If I could also, I'm not trying to bounce all over the place, but as it relates to the Scouters Hall, which was, again, not part of the levy. The match requirement on the DEM grant is $395,000. That's a $500,000 grant. So that $500,000 could be reduced to $395 instead of $500,000.

Again, it's not in the levy, but. Take away the two. Okay. On top of the 175.

Yeah, I'm going to make my original motion. Yeah, I think you should.

All right. Not to sound indecisive, but I'm going to go back to my original motion, which was zero capital, add an additional $100,000 into the operating budget.

Is that a motion?

You got that? I do. Okay, that's a motion.

Is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? Roll call, please.

Mr. Berrigan? Yes. Mr. Cristofaro?

No.

Mr. Punchak? Yes. Ms. Alves?

Yes. Can you give her the total number?

Well, yeah, the council has to approve.

She needs a total for the department. Department, yeah. Do you have it up there?

Yep, so it's $32,388,726. Do you want to just amend your motion today?

Okay, and added to my motion is the total would be $32 million. Is that an 888? $388,726. Do I need to second that? Second that modification? Okay, second. Do we need another roll call?

Any further discussion?

Mr. Baragon?

Yes.

Mr. Cristoforo? No. Mr. Punchak? Yes. Ms. House? Yes.

So we just need one last capital item that we need approved. It's the conical machine for town clerk. You approved the department as a whole, but not that capital item. Did you?

Tammy said she needed it.

Tammy and I checked. We don't have a motion for capital for what, the clerk or police? They didn't do them. Because it was included in the total that you approved the night before. You didn't make one.

Okay, so I'll make a quick motion. I will make a motion to approve the Town Clerk capital expenditure for the Conacher copier machine in the amount of $10,000, which is included in the department budget in the amount of $348,199.80. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

Roll call, please.

Mr. Baragon?

Yes.

Mr. Cristobaro? Yes. Mr. Pontchart? Yes. Ms. Howes?

Yes. Anything else that was missed? You said police, right, Taylor?

I don't think.

I think because you didn't change it, it was the same as what you approved last night. So, yeah. We need a motion for just the capital.

Just the capital for police, which is 110-145.04. Okay. You approved the department as a whole, but just not the capital itself. Just the two items, the tasers and the cruiser, the one cruiser.

Okay, do we have the total?

For capital, it's 110,000.

I'm going to approve each line item.

That's fine, yeah.

I'm going to be wicked thorough. Okay, I am going to make a motion to approve, yep, yep.

While they're doing that, I just got to, just one thing real quick I forgot to mention. There is an issue now with the schools, since the shooting at Lynch Ice Arena, Paying for details. Now, we had a meeting not that long ago. I was with the town administrator and we were with Mr. St. Gene and I think the AD was there and Terry was there. And I mentioned that we would, I think the town, they're our kids too. And I think the town should be responsible for at least covering 50% above and beyond their budget now. I think the town should be required to pay the 50% maybe in a reimbursement form of the details that protecting the kids at these events. So in other words, if they put an officer there for four hours, just for simple math, let's say it was 25 an hour, I'm sure it's a lot more than that now. So we would cover $50 of that $100. I think that's only fair that the town takes a share in that responsibility for protecting the kids as well as the schools.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Why are we paying for, why are our schools paying for details from our own police department? Like what?

Because it's overtime, really.

Because there's different functions at different times, so you either have to pay at least overtime to go to the functions, or they need to pay since I've been asleep.

That's not in our budget for next year. That's just more stuff we were going to find cuts and fill in.

And Terry sent me a text last night saying that what's already been done so far is all covered, so not worrying about that. But going forward, she asked if I could bring that up. Okay, thank you. Okay. So I don't even know how that would fit into the budget or would it not even be something that we have on the budget. So we don't know what that number is.

Let's record this, please. Yeah, let's do the please.

Okay, okay. I am going to make a motion to approve capital expenditures for the North Smithfield Police Department for axon police tasers in the amount of $32,286.37. For the cruiser replacement in the amount of $77,858.67. For a total department budget of, is this what I'm looking at, Kim? $5,239,256.32. Second. That's a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

I don't think that total. Oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at the capital total. Any further discussion? Roll call, please.

Mr. Birrigan? Yes. Ms. Cristofaro? Yes. Mr. Punchak? Yes. Ms. Alves?

Yes. Do you know how much the details cost for the year?

They don't know.

We took our scheduling of games and our athletic director gave us a figure of what he was thinking. And that's just the home games?

That doesn't include the dances, the other things that we do with the kids, the other things? Concerts, graduation funds.

So athletics, based on events from this year, it would have been $23,400, just athletics. And then school events, based on, again, events from this year, it was another $7,920.

$30,000.

Great.

That's total cost? So then that's at a four-hour minimum of the current detailed weight. Does that sound accurate? Yes. Okay. And that does not include the golf matches?

No, we took off. Yeah. Because that's not actually golf.

Yeah, that's...

Patrol works 8 to 4 p.m., 4 p.m. to midnight, midnight to 8 a.m. So if the town were to pay out of my budget, department overtime, if I had minimum money with three officers, which is, that's what our collective bargaining agreement is for all three shifts, I would have to order back officers. I can't order them back for more than four hours if I hold someone from first shift. that I have for the Clinton-Biden movement, they've gone out from the time I've worked here, and they've gotten a detail officer to work those special events, those live events. But since the events that have happened in the commissioning, the school departments, as well as myself, want to see more police presence at these events. So that's not like all the events, because our SROs come along. like more than one town or city going to the event, then we could cover that with a drive-by patrol, host a car there for the regular shift, doesn't cost anything.

We all hear from it the next day, no matter all the hoops we try to jump through to get somebody, to get a presence, but it just comes down to manpower. Even when putting out the other communities for a detail, not everyone's picking up. We had one event that the NSPD, they had no staff. We couldn't get anybody from a nearby community to pick up the detail. They actually reached out to a private security firm just to see if we could get a uniformed body there to sort of bring down the anxiety and the temperature of some of the families.

Chief, is it possible to, like, when there are events, that we can change up the orders of the hours of the SROs so they can be there for the event versus someone be at school and then?

Yeah, we try to do that as best we can with their schedule. to fill details other than us because the interlocal trust says that we can do that. They're covered, they're peace officers, and they can work real details. But this particular instance, there was no one to work. So you only have so many bodies that have to work. They're a regular patrol shift through each minimum unit. and you have to order back on the people. It just wasn't on. But we try to, even when the people are on patrol. But I can't assign someone from a shift to that duty if they're gonna get called off

I know that what Mrs. St. Jean was saying, because I also received some calls about the concerts and the people that were sitting inside towards the stage. Some of them told me how they started to feel anxious and claustrophobic, and they started getting very nervous because they knew that it was. So this is still very real to a lot of people that were there. And those are our citizens, and I feel that we should at least split the cost with the school on protecting them. Just the police presence alone would, trust me, just having somebody there alone, it could be a deterrent. We'll never know. Those are the intangibles that you can never know what you're saving or what's going on. But somebody could take one look at a police officer there and turn around and go the other way.

And just to clarify, actually, that's my spreadsheet. I should have known this. That was an estimate for... the spring the thirty thousand dollars that wasn't the entire year so fall is a busy time of year winter sort of quiet like when it's in a big fist like at the turf like how do you even go about

Having present like, how does that even work? Is it such a big area?

You put them right at the entrance, so if anybody walks in there, they can see the police officer. You put the cruiser right there, right in front. You just make yourself known. It's not a guarantee, it's not 100%, but.

No, it's just such a big area. I know. And it's so open. Yeah.

20,000, 40,000, 60,000, 70,000.

What's a life worth?

Yeah, I don't want to be the guy putting a number to somebody's life. That's right. Geez.

I hate to throw that out, but this is budget and we have to think about the logistics and the cost. We want to provide the best we can for that.

I think it's something we have to continue the conversation between the school and the town to see the frequency and how we can, obviously it's something that's needed.

Yeah, we have a number of parents are asking, they want to see policy, you know, from your side, our side, our collective policy on having police detail. They would like to see it mandated. Mandatory, if there's an event at the school, at the town, there has to be a detail. They're not exactly, you know, cognizant of the power issues and the coverage and, you know, the groups we try to jump to to make that happen. So, yes, I mean, we've been coordinating as best as we can, but just been trying to cover as much as we can.

Well, I can say this. in town as an SRO in every school. So if you have a police officer that doesn't come from minimum income, that isn't in my patrol ranks, that's assigned to the school, that pay their benefits, hourly rate, whatever, their first year, third year, fifth year senior patrolman that work at the school every day.

Is in your budget. Yes.

Chief, is it possible?

That's not a budget thing. That's just, that's... for safety for the schools. So we added to our patrol rights two years ago. We mandated just an SRO in our patrol division assigned to the school. They come back to me in the summertime, but they have vacation time and whatnot. So we may have them for weeks out of the summer. Because they go back a little early, they do palace training and whatnot. It's been working great. And our teachers and parents and students are just eternally grateful. So this is kind of above and beyond what we've done as a normal flow of protection security act.

Chief, is it possible to have the detail, for instance, if there's a school event, that detail has to be filled first before someone can work a highway detail?

We can't really do that. What we try to do is get communication with the athletic director, the SRO, and the detail officer to get that out in a timely manner. We're kind of catching up to communication on... the athletic director in the school administration on what's coming up?

In the principals. And going into, again, we start back into this. We put as much in place as we could. Sometimes there was some short notice things. But our schedule coming out of the summer is going to be a calendar set. Can we add a line item to Tom counsel contributions I

To ignore this now is not a good idea.

No, I mean, or do we just put it under the police department for school events?

Any chance you want to put it under the school's appropriation? Just give them a little extra to cover the town half? I'm just thinking logistically when we bill the school for a detail. They're going to pay, like it goes into a receivable account. There's an admin fee. I don't know if you ever have a cruiser on site for those events. But there's like three different accounts it could hit. Two revenue accounts, a receivable account. I'm just thinking the logistics of sending the bill out, receiving a payment for half.

We can't tell them how to spend their money.

Yeah, not to interrupt you.

We could do a line item to say school events. And then it also goes to the maintenance record. So I'd rather keep it. In the police department.

Can it come out of their general fund? It's technically not an operation expense, is it? If it's something that the town is telling you to do.

We can't tell them on balance.

Why don't we keep it real simple. Have them pay the bill in full. At the end of the month, give us a bill. Give who a bill? Give the town a bill.

So do we want to add a new?

That sounds easy. But we still need to account for that somehow. We would.

Where are we going to account for that?

I mean, Chief, do you think there's any room in your overtime budget that we've already approved with the additional manpower coming on? Well, you're saying how much? Oh, you're saying $70? So like $35,000? Is that what you're saying, like $35,000? No, no, $35,000.

Yeah, I mean, if you're thinking that's going to get absorbed in that budget without adding to it, it's a guesstimation.

Yeah, and if you happen to go over, I mean, then can't we do some moving of his lines if he should go over, and then we know that it's because of some, like it could possibly be because of the events at the school, if it's overtime. Yeah. So...

No. So I'm just trying to think logistically.

When we send the bill, we're only going to bill them for half, and we pay half?

Bill the school 100%.