Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, good evening everyone. The North Midfield, you have the mic. Oh yeah, I forget. Hang on. There it is. There it is. North Smithfield Planning Board meeting for Thursday, October 9th, 2025 is called to order at 7:03 p.m. First on the agenda is a roll call. Dr. Benoy here. Dr. Roberts here. Mr. Porter here. Mr. Manard here. Miss Ramos here. Chair is here. Uh, Mr. Osier is not here. Uh, Mr. Mr. Oier notified us that he would be unable to make the meeting tonight.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, next, um, please take a look at the minutes from the September 11th meeting and provide any feedback, comments, or questions.

Mr. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to accept the minutes as presented. Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a second. All in favor? I

opposed. No. The meeting minutes from September 11th are accepted as presented. Uh next, uh do any planning board members, uh need to disclose any potential conflicts on the matters before the board this meeting? Hearing none. Any planning board members need to disclose any exparte communications about any contested or material adjudicator facts opinions concerning the merits of any application before the board this hearing none our voting members tonight Dr. Benoy Dr. Roberts

Mr. Porter Mr. Bernard and myself. So, first on the agenda, Unified Development Review Tractor Supply Company 934 Victory Highway. This item is ai this topic is a continued topic from the September 11th meeting. Um, so Mr. Kurillo, could you on yours?

Could you just summarize the the continuence? Um, yes, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Tractor Supply was before the board on September 11th, uh, made a presentation as part of a public hearing. The board did hear testimony from Tractor Supply and their representatives as well as from the general public. uh at the end of the presentation and questions from the general public. Um we were running late in the evening so the planning board closed the public hearing and continued the item for board deliberation and a potential vote this evening uh on the application. I believe there is a representative of tractor supply here um to have a discussion or make presentation to the board for any questions or concerns that the board has.

Okay.

I don't have stuff online. Good evening board members. For the record, my name is K. project manager facility engineer facility engineering and I'm here on behalf of capital who unfortunately I don't care this evening due to travel issues

I believe a lot of your questions were answered last meeting I did run through Sam Samante from my office was here presenting for you on September 11th uh there was a question regarding the arch arcture um to incorporate platform elements rather than the split split face block on the front portion of the building uh to satisfy your request. We did speak with the developer and he is more than happy to implement that uh for your for the design. So other than that I can answer any other questions regarding Okay, thank you. Who wants to go first?

Can I just ask a question? Can I have your name again? Oh, sure. It's Casey Burch. I'm sorry. Casey Burch. Okay. Thank you. [Music] In regard to the architectural modification of the building, I pretty much disagree with my colleagues with all apology. Um if you will look at the location of that building the offset it is 100 yards u is it about 100 yards from 102

um in feet I would say about 300 feet I think I believe y close enough to 100 yards for me uh but the offset you will not see that building from 102 unless you're driving into the as a customer and the customers for tractor supply come in with their muck boots. They have their horse trailers to get their feed for their stock. These customers are not looking for a boutique type effect. They like the very standard successful store as they are located all over the country. If I can add to that. Yes.

I did a little research because I happened to drive by a tractor splice store in Ring, New Hampshire this weekend going to see my son play baseball and it was different in design. So, I took a picture of it and I got curious. So, I did a 10-minute search on the internet and I found at least 20 different designs for the building, including the clapboard. and that was in a standard like built um I'll say corporate built as opposed to them taking over a job lot or something you know where they're kind of stuck with the architecture and it was the same structure except clapboard instead of corrugated metal and instead of the um what do you call it half block the split cm block

yeah right so so that was part of they it seems that they offer different uh architectural exterior plans to fit in with their surroundings. So, I don't think we're asking something that is unique and it's something they've done in many parts of the country. How does this fit into our surroundings? The nearest bricks are on the vet building across the road. Oh, no. There's no bricks. This is clapboard. I know. So, it's comparable to the uh Nagant, right? And I think that um is an orthodont place next to it that it fits in with that,

right? I just feel it's totally unnecessary. The developer uh is going to bring a water line from the corner of 146A and 102. And what's the length of that water line? I believe that was um I think that's up to like 2,000 feet if I remember correctly. And what's the cost per foot to put a water line in like that? That I'm not sure. I know it's a Yeah, I'm not really sure. I couldn't say that for sure. Okay, Mr. Kuo, do you have a ballpark figure on about $300 a foot?

Okay. I'm I'm suggesting that the developers going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to bring water. He's he's doing that to the community to the benefit of future development. I think there's no need to impose additional cost on the building. That's my opinion. Do we do we have an idea if there's additional cost doing clapboard versus the other? We would have to ask that question. I I I I'm not aware of that. And if so what it is because certainly certainly our goal is not to put financial hardship on the developer. Absolutely.

Right. I mean, if if it if it is something that the board wants, the the developer did say he could do it on the front of front. Obviously, he'd like to save the money, but um but if it if it we needed to do this to pass it, then he's I have Okay. One more question. U the height of the burm you're going to be putting in to the south side. Oh, yeah. the uh you're building up the the the level of the land so the water slopes toward 102.

Um there will be some evergreens planted on top of the burm I suspect. Let me check the planet real quick. I think that's what we asked for. Correct. Yeah. What I'm getting at is the the very evergreen trees next to the orthodontist office are outstanding. Mhm. You see it when you drive through Dunkin Donuts. I wish the planning department could look up the species and suggest that to the developer. You're right. Because they're phenomenal trees. Yeah. And they grew in very quickly also. They they took hold. Yes. We should be able to find that. That was a recent relatively recent project, right? Five years or so.

That was about 10 years ago. The I've been on here too long. I know. Um, yeah, we have the glory red maples on that. I That's an evergreen. I Are you looking for evergreens on that? Yes, specifically the type that's across the road at the orthodontist office. Yeah, I think that's a great suggestion. That's Yeah, we have no problem. We'll do with the app. Yeah. Okay, I'm all done, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, man.

Just to put a little input on the dock with the the clapboard sighting and they talk about the cost incurred. It's going to be in my I'm not I'm not in the actual construction. I'm in construction, but not in the in the carpenter side of it. But as a estimator, something has to be behind that block that that that siding anyway. So they're going to put regular CMU block instead of split CMU block. Correct. So there might not be a giant cost offset because the the plain CMU block I would have to think is a lot less money than a split decorative CMU block. So they're going to have a maybe a minor labor cost

on that. they might be doing metal stuff. So just on that on that side and I'm not going against what you're saying because I have to agree that you know you look at a tractor supply look at a tractor supply and it does sit far off the road but if it is going to be imposed I don't think it's going to be a major impact to the contractor to to the developer. I was simply expressing my opinion. Absolutely. So, any anyone else any other comments, Mr. Porter?

Yeah, my my biggest comment um and I made this uh at the last meeting with the previous applicant was my my uh issue with the zoning relief on on the signage. Um, we're in a fairly residential uh business neighborhood area and I think a 48 foot square foot sign is just going to be very massive for for the area that it's in. Are you talking about the signage on the on 102? No. Yeah. Yeah. the one freestanding sign we have they it's listed as 12 square foot maximum but they're proposing 48 square feet and 8 feet in height and 11 feet is proposed.

So that is that's so that's the marquee that's like the um I for what they call but the marquee by the the curb cut. Mhm. Okay. So that that's that's my biggest issue is that you know like I said we're in the is in a business neighborhood area and would like to ma maintain what we have in our zoning ordinance for as far as signage goes.

I mean I I believe that's the track sign to be honest. Um I think that's why we went in for a wave 12 is just for a site this big. It just um especially we have it I believe it's almost 20 ft off the the setback which is like 10 ft more off the road. Um it's kind of kind of put back further. You're not going to be able to see very well at 12 foot uh 12 square foot sign. um traveling this is that's east west

traveling uh east because of the the neighboring properties and have a heavily vegetated area so the the applicant would really like to have the sign could we have do we have the um the site map so we just go see exactly where the sign is I do have a Oh, right. Pylon sign. That's the the plans refer to see engineered plants, but I don't see any reference to it or

it's also on the website if you the actual probably on the website. This is the the PowerPoint presentation that was presented last time. So, the plans might be better to see if bigger and not condensed into Do you happen to know? Oh, if it's a backlit sign. No. Um, they typically they typically have down lighting. Okay. Signs, but

I mean, I think they do internal signs, but They I've seen in the past whatever regulations require lighting on signs that yeah they'll satisfy just backlet would be a bit obtrusive I think is is backlighting against the regulations against your regulations as well I don't I don't think so it's actually against it it's just a preference it's a preference okay especially because it I think

the down lighting also helps helps with dark sky compliance and all that, but there are there are residences within maybe 100 yards or so from because right after Dunkin Donuts, there are actually houses. Yeah. Now, it's different if the sign is shut off at night, but if it's on all night, you know, that's different. Is the pylon to be parallel with 102 or parallel with the drive? Yeah. So if that's the case and if the sign is going to be of that size, I would be against back lit. Okay.

Did you find Las Vegas in real time

I know that's No, it's okay. Mr. chairman while he tries to reach his client. We have to consider the size of the sign at Brigados's enormous I'm looking at right now the sign at uh across the road Kland Farms uh for the vet or vape shop is an enormous sign and I don't think they'll be out of character. uh if there's a closer residence, it is the one at the intersection of 102 and 10 uh 146A. There's a house right across the road.

Um and I'm not sure, but I think the new Bank of America kiosk uh ATM has a considerable exposure, shall we say, of signage, right? So again, I hate to see the developer be put to extra expense and it's going to prove nothing as far as the uh the rural character. And if we're talking about keeping North Midfield rural, a tractor supply is rural. I don't have any strong opinions outside of that.

Yeah. Yeah, I I noticed they didn't have a New York City store.

Is there any other questions? Any other questions while we're

When would you anticipate they breaking ground if you get approval? Um I I know they'd like to start obviously prior to to winter. So I mean obviously that's coming up um soon but um I think that would be only clearing obviously no not not much of anything else until the spring due to weather construction. Right. Okay. Well, I'd like to I I gave some thought about the signage myself over the last month um because the other project as well. And I'm just going to say in in the spirit of looking at things from different perspective, I look at businesses as Dr. Bernoid says that, you know, existing signage that we have and also what businesses need to do to advertise their business to make you aware that the business is there. Um, and I looked at what 12 square feet gets you. Uh, and it's not a lot. Um, you know, think about it. It's like a 4x3 or a 2x six. And I think of you know how do you gain awareness depending on the type of business as well but something like this where they're trying to attract people who may not be familiar and it needs to stand out from a distance um to attract business to attract maybe spontaneous business. Um, so I just put it out there that maybe there's a problem with the ordinance and not a problem especially if we have all these other businesses and I don't know when they got approval and what the ordinance said at the time.

But if we have all these signs that don't comply with the ordinance, maybe the ordinance needs to be looked at. Alternatively though, we could be looking at a question of enforcement too because there are some folks that have come in and done what they've want wanted to and that it's easier for them to ask for forgiveness to permission and then or at some point we just don't have enough to enforce what we have. But there and you're right that's a if that's a problem but there's a it's a separate problem but it's still a town problem if we're not enforcing it. Right. And exactly and because it sets precedent.

Um but I still just looking at the physical limitations of 12 square feet. You know I I' I'd want to see if there's any signs in town that are less than 12 square feet for for businesses that are getting their name out there. I don't care where it is in town. Um it may vary with the zone, but there's a lot of business neighborhood. So I I would be very curious if there is any that actually comply. But you know the other things like not having it back lit, having it down lit instead that that's considerate of the neighborhood certainly. The height is another issue, you know.

Yeah. I'm trying to also get uh an answer on if you have a sign that high is down preferred if they You don't do back lit or is it up or do you up light it in? No, it would be down. Yeah, I think it would always be down lit because we're always going for dark sky compliance, right? I guess I guess up lighting is more for the monument type. Yeah, correct.

Well, he could be in downing. Okay. I know you you guys um want to keep the size, but you know back down. Okay, thanks for that. Is he Is he uh is he circling somewhere or He must be off the plane by now. That's what I was kind of nervous about too, right? But he did say yes.

Okay, thank you. Any other questions, comments from the board, Mr. Porter? No, I think when we were last talking and this is, you know, jumping to the uh unified development review portion of of the um and reviewing for the stipulations or I would only just ask that we add um we already have any revised exterior elevations that you do have uh for us to see those based on on what we've talked today talked about to date.

Yeah, we we could definitely provide that. Do you need to see that before you make an approval or No, we've made that we've made that a condition before. Yeah. Anything else? So, it seems like we've added at least one stipulation, which is the down lighting on the pylon sign. Um, it sounds like there may need further board discussion about the clapboard versus let me just call it the stone. CMU CMU split CMU

split CMU, excuse me. All right. You're an architect. I mean, I'm a software engineer. Um, you're forgiven. Thank you. Um, do we need some further discussion on that? So we can figure out the board's um preference on that because that becomes a stipulation, right? If we if we want to go a certain way. Well, as the applicant has stated so far, if the owner is certainly willing to compromise for it, I would say we we accept his his willingness to do so. Right. To be to be clear, primal facade only.

Yeah, I think I think I think that's a good that's a good compromise. Yeah, there's nothing on the there's nothing on the west side at all. And there's trees and Walgreens on the right and the back is completely covered. So, who cares? You know, it'll look fine. All right. So, we'll add that stipulation as well. Mr. Krill, is there anything you want to add to this conversation? trying to craft a couple stipulations.

Okay. Thank you. Um we cover everything that we left off from last meeting. Um I know at the last meeting the applicant had stated that he would be willing to sell pe parts of the parcel of land that is on the the south side of the project. Is that is that he he made that offer to some of the abutters that were here has that made any adjustment to what's been presented to us to date? Um no. Um and I'm not sure if he's doing that or where he's with that process, but no, that that hasn't changed.

Yeah. What he actually offered was to give them the land as long as they cover the legal costs of transferring splitting and transferring the deed. Okay. And from the looks of it, you know, that now that's of course between the land owner and them. Uh it did look like there was a lot of interest in that. Okay. So, um I did just think that there actually is a third stipulation was the ever the change to evergreens on the burm.

That's correct. the the evergreens that are found next behind the orthodontic office which is like a more attractive version of an arborite or something. It's a dandy tree. Is that getting too specific though for this board? I don't know. It's at least a really great suggestion with with the request or the stipulation of clapboard. I'm going to put out there that the developer can choose a material that will sustain weathering in longevity and for their benefit of maintenance. Fair enough.

Like something like cement board opposed to cedar, right? Will last a whole lot longer. Absolutely. and keep their maintenance cost down. So, make sure that there's no, "Oh, it has to be cedar clapboard." Right. It's just it's a clapboard look. Yeah. Right.

How we doing, Mr. Krillo? I keep the I'll be checking something else quickly.

If there's no further comments once we have the stipulations in order, then we can vote. So, so I would say that um there there are two actions necessary and one is for

the dimensional requests which only has one stipulation and the other if that passes the second action by the board would be for the land development project. For that there were eight stipulations proposed. It sounds like the board is uh contemplating three additional stipulations and I'll do do my best to try to read these into the record. It would be number nine would be the the applicant shall provide revised exterior elevations to include clabard type siding along the front facade prior to final approval. that the proposed freestanding sign shall be illuminated with downlit lighting and 11 would be that the applicant shall provide evergreen plantings along the top of the burm located to the rear of the property. I don't know if we want to get into the detail of the evergreen or or

what is what is currently being proposed. Now the rear of the property you want it is at that is where the burm is. It's the burm is on the south side. Yeah. Yeah, I was intrigued. Um cuz the maple that I mentioned was a lot. So yeah, that BM with for the basin. Uh I don't Well, it's to the it's to the rear of the property. Yeah, if you walk out and keep walking, you hit the BM. I actually don't know what I don't think according to Yeah, I don't think we had a specific

planting Was the landscape plan submitted? Yes, there there is. Tammy, would you be so kind to scroll down on that PDF to go to page L1?

Is that it? Keep going. Oh. There you go. There's the landscape plan. Yeah. So, if you scroll down just a little bit more, there it is. That right there. You can see the BM, but there's nothing called out at the BM. Okay. Yeah, that's what I That's what I had here, too. There's there's a proposed BM and that it says Lomen seed with native meadow mix, see landscape notes. Right. Yeah. So, there's originally just a seed mix. You're looking for evergreens across the entire bath. Mhm. Okay. And I believe that was u verbally accepted at the last meeting. Okay. It definitely is not the first time it's been mentioned. Okay. Yeah.

Apolog I wasn't here. So I just want to make that's right. Um yeah if it was we said it was fine last time. Yeah. Okay. But yeah there is no trees originally on the the design.

Okay. You can always follow up with the species via email letting go. I still don't think it's a great idea. Put those in our land use and subdivision rigs. Mr. Chairman, what we would require anyway is the final plan set would have to include that on there calling out the variety and indicating it on the landscape plan. Yep. By state law, all landscape plans submitted for approval are required to be stamped by a registered landscape architect in Rhode Island. So, I think that should cover it.

Okay. So the first action if it's the board's desire would be to act on the um zoning relief dimensional variances that were being proposed which included um exceeding exceeding the minimum size and to have a sign exceeding um 12 square ft for 48 8 ft and the other was for retail sales and service between 20 and 40,000 square ft gross leable area. So those are the two because the square footage exceeds the uh standard a little bit.

Correct. Okay. Hang on. Okay. We vote on those separately if I remember correctly.

Well, you you can you can vote on those together to grant the requested variances under section 340 attachment 2, which is retail sales and service 20 to 40,000 square ft gross leable area and section 340-4.26D to have a freestanding sign in excess of 12 square ft proposed to be 48 square ft. height proposed um height height required 8 feet and proposed at 11 ft.

Okay. Well, let's let's vote on them separately. So, let's start with a motion to accept section 340 attachment two, the retail sales and service square footage. Can we have a second on that? Second. Okay. Roll call vote. Dr. Dr. Benoy. Yes. Dr. Roberts, yes. Dr. Mr. Porter, yes. Promoted you there. Um, Mr. Manard, yes.

And the chair votes yes. So, the first um zoning relief waiver is granted. Second one, section 340-4.26D, 26D the freestanding sign 48 ft versus um the 12 12 square foot max 11 ft high versus the um it says 8t required I imagine that's max that's correct okay so we have a motion to approve that do we have a second second we have two seconds roll call vote Dr. Dr. Benoy, Dr. Roberts, yes. Mr. Porter, no. Mr. Bernard,

yes. Chair votes yes. So, we've granted the zoning relief. That allows us to move on. That's correct, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Now, you'll be considering the land development project for approval um with the proposed stipulation one now 1 through 11. Three additional stipulations addressing the siding and a new elevations prior to final approval. Freestanding sign shall be down lit not interior with no interior illumination and to provide evergreen PR plantings along the top of the burm located to the rear of the property. The other eight were proposed last month and they're carried over.

Okay. Looking for a motion. I make a motion. Any particular as read as read by the planner? A motion to approve. To approve, I'm sorry. Yes. Thank you. All right. And we have a second from Dr. Benoy. So again, all the stipulations specified by the plan. Absolutely. So Dr. Benoy, yes. Dr. Roberts, yes. Mr. Porter, yes. Mr. Manard, yes. And the chair votes yes. It's very good. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tell the applicant we hope he gets home safely.

Tell the applicant we hope he gets home safely. I'm curious if that's where it got rerouted to Hartford, huh? Thanks. You too. Okay, next up. Uh, did I go? Oh, no. Yeah, this was a email from Bobby. The number nine or the Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. Item nine, administrative subdivisions, uh, Dowling Village condominium. Uh, we want you if he's if if he's calling the subdivision now, you can just review the subdivision, Bobby. Yep. That is the next one on the use the microphone. She had said sorry I was going by the good. Yeah, there there just for clarification there was an an initial agenda and then we then we submitted a uh an amended agenda or revised agenda. But Mr. Chairman, we can address the administrative subdivision now. Bobby can make the presentation on that and then we can go back to the

Yeah, because the next item is discussion anyway. So, yeah, let's do that.

Okay, this is just um this is an administrative subdivision. This is actually the second one that they've done. In 2022, uh we the planning board approved a 30 unit residential development with six um LMI units. Um, and then in 2024 they did another administrative subdivision. Again, it's merging lots within that area where the condos are. Um, they merged some lots. They actually merged a few. And then this merge was to take all of the the left-hand side lot 143 and connect it to the road like the Ding Village road is actually part of that lot.

Common common open space common open space. So, they took the the there's a small parcel um at the front of the property to the right of the condos. They took that lot. They merged it with the other empty lot to the north and they just went and took went and connected it to the whole open space. What is the driveway? So, this is them consolidating. You had the lot by the power lines. They had those two like more or less abandoned houses or whatever like that, right? So, this is just making everything one big lot.

There's actually two There's two lots. There's the the Go ahead. So, yeah, Mr. Chairman, as part of that development that you're talking about, they merged two lots there and they took residual portion of that lot heading back towards Dowling Village and a portion of it to the left. And there was a secondary lot in there that was kind of um yeah, they merged kind of rectangular shaped and merged it as you're saying all into one lot that starts out on what's this road here, Bobby? old quiset piping

on old Lewis quiset and it wraps in through Dling Village comes all the way around and back out. That is the because it's a condo development that is the common open space which includes some of the power line easement um drainage and the roadway going in and wrapping around. Okay, that's it. And it's done. No, it's just for information purposes. Thank you. Yeah, he can show you this if you want after the big in the future if you could reference the north, south, east, west. Is that a right or west?

Yeah. Yeah, I could do that now. My apologies. You're correct. It's where the old beef barn used to be. That was last month. It's south of the old max. Yep. Oh jeez. from islandism. Okay. So next item on the this is uh in reference to chart the time charter article 12 pling planning department and chapter 22 the local planning board and commission from the uh island stand for

general law general law right-22 I knew I knew it wasn't general ledger um so anyway so we have a little introduction uction for this item. I I think we'll have to count on the vice chairman for the introduction. Sure.

Uh so I'm uh also not only am I serving as a planning board member and a building committee member, I'm also serving on the charter review committee. And one of the items that the charter review would uh committee would like to do is have uh outreach and dialogue with all of the committees and boards that are mentioned in the charter. Planning board is one of them. Um one of the I want to uh start by saying tonight is not just a discussion and then we're closing the discussion. It's I'm hoping a continued dialogue between the planning board uh hope hoping that we can include the zoning board as well because the zoning board is listed underneath uh the planning department article 12 and then also uh just get an a conversation going for things that have been working for the planning board in the planning department, things that are not working. uh and just get that that um get a discussion to go understand how to make us the most successful town that we can be. Identifying uh some efficiencies, some areas of improvement, getting rid of outdated language. The planning board has certainly seen the past two years, year and a half of Rhode Island general Law changing and our responsibilities now are a little bit greater than what is listed in our charter in addition to what's listed in the Rhode Island General Law. So the uh charter review committee is working in meeting with all the boards in and committees as I said and we're working to to get an understanding of of areas of improvement. And also um I also want to stipulate that while all of these conversations are incredibly

important, we will be at some point prioritizing uh different things because we don't want to be going to the voters and having 20 questions for a a change in the charter. Uh that that could lead to some fatigue. So we there may be the we will be picking and prioritizing the most important that the group feels in consensus with the rest of the uh town council and the rest of the boards to really uh move our our town charter forward. So with that, um, really I I I just, you know, like to open it up to the board and, you know, I I I hope everybody had an opportunity to read both the the general law attachments and the article 12 that that Bobby had sent to everybody. Um, and again, this is just the beginning of probably many discussions on this topic. uh but certainly uh look to me as the as um the messenger over to the charter review um and and going from there and then that doesn't preclude uh the planning department from having any comments too. So if there are things that you folks have seen um as far as areas of responsibility and um and the like just please let us know on that end as well. On on that note, I would like to get the planning department's feedback now on how we're doing in regards to the significant changes that the state legislator legislature um made um you know with unified development and all the things that you know now fall under us you know and just give us a really candid you know give us a grade whatever you know how are we doing on that?

Oh, the board is doing. Yeah. How's the board? I think I think the board's adjustment has been very smooth. Um certainly there's a learning curve, but I think the transition from simply being the planning board and reviewing development projects. Um and then having to add in consideration of dimensional variances and special use permits has gone fairly smoothly in my opinion. I think the applicants have adjusted. They appreciate um the interaction with the board. I haven't heard uh any complaints from any of the applicants. Um that's good.

And in fact, you'll you'll notice they'll come up and they'll they'll actually commend the board for um their action. I think um historically, you know, applicants going from the planning board to the zoning board and then back to the planning board. Sometimes um because it's two different boards looking at the same project there there have been conflicting opinions between the boards where a project will be approved by the planning board and I won't get into the details of what they may be and then they get to the zoning board and it gets mired down or even denied at the zoning board ends up in superior court and then comes back here to the planning board where if you're coming to the planning board you know the planning board's deliberations s while they haven't been as technical as the zoning board in the past are becoming more technical but when it's the planning board looking at it I think the planning board has been following the letter of the regulations the majority of the time and chairman even when you say say you know sometimes we we're following these regulations and they're meeting the regulations we have to approve the project

um so it's it's it's it's more of a um objective review that's happening as opposed to subjective and sometimes politically influenced with a small P by individuals in the room or the number of individuals that show up. So in my opinion, I think it's been an extremely smooth transition and certainly as we as as we continue this over time, it'll become even smoother as the as the members get used to the process. Right. But I I I think it's been a lot smoother than I thought it was actually going to be. That's my opinion.

So, you set a little bar for us, but we got over it. That's good. Thanks. Thanks, Mark. I mean, I'm left-handed, so I know a left-handed compliment when I see one. You know, it's like, it's all right. See, you too, right? It's okay. Okay. Who else says any stuff for Jeff?

Dr. Um it it's not super detailed. It's more like high level things for you to consider. Um and I feel like it goes across other boards and commissions as well. So, it's not just for this um board, but I I would like to see more education opportunities for the residents to learn more about the comprehensive plan and to learn more about planning so that when they come to meetings, they know how to participate. And I in terms of like what's going well, I feel like our planning department and our chair do a great job of empowering residents to participate and feel respected and everything, but there's still probably a level of knowledge that people just don't have because you don't really have it until you show up for something, you know, that matters to you. So, I would like to see some proactive education. Um, and along those same lines of being proactive, like I was just looking at the list of all the different things that the planning board interfaces with, including housing problems and things like environmental protection, conservation, and I would like to see more engagement with those topics. For example, I know there's um an opportunity coming up on I think it's November 15th for the planning board to be trained at um that half day thing that the state planning is putting on. And I think you know going to those things and then also liazing with the um conservation commission which I don't think is an active commission right now because we're trying to get someone on groundwater protection and we can't identify anyone who would be um like the lead person to even lead that or talk to us about it and we've reached out to

numerous people. So I think just like connecting the relevant boards and commissions and having joint education opportunities and engaging residents those are kind of things that would really matter to me.

Can I just I want to add on to a couple things that Dr. Robert said in terms of the education part. I think that's critical. I mean, how many meetings have we had where you get a lot of residents here and they really do not understand the process at all and and so we have to spend time educating them meeting by meeting. Okay, this is probably going to be it could be the only meeting they're ever going to go to. And I wonder if other towns and I don't care where it is in the country have provided some sort of um let me call it a handbook whatever something online that they can go to to just get a quick understanding of the process you know even just the uh well now the you know the the pre-application the the preliminary the final and the and the fact that where they'll have the opportunity to provide input that right there goes a long way because a lot of times they think oh that's it. It's uh we get one one shot to talk and that's it. And it's not true. So, I think something like that would be very valuable. And I'll also um piggy back on to what she said about the conservation commission, which I don't know if that's within the scope of this, but

it's been years since we've had uh you know, regular and um valued feedback from the com conservation commission, which we used to get quite regularly. And I know personally, you know, sitting where I'm sitting, I always found that valuable. It didn't matter whether we agreed or not. It was always right, it was always very knowledgeable and therefore impactful. And so I anything we can do to fix that would be great.

Yeah. One of one of the observations that the committee has had is how siloed each board and commission is um in comparison to you know basically cross-pollination. Um there's a lot of things that are going on in town that you know we could have impact with parks and wreck or parks and wreck and conservation commission and you know there's there's a lot of overlap but we tend to stay within our confines of of where we are. So that's one of the things that we are looking at somewhat broadly is how we can break that those silos down and have a lot more uh interboard discussions, joint meetings and and what have you.

Yeah. I I mean I wonder if that's that can start at the comprehensive plan because when we have we because we identify specific things but maybe right in the comprehensive plan say which boards or commissions need to be involved in this. Yep. Um because yeah, we don't get enough of that input. I still feel like it it was better some time ago and it's decayed a bit. Um but that's another thing the the residents don't realize. They'll ask us questions. We go well that's that's really a DPW issue. It's not something we can do. They need to know how that works. And so we need to provide that

whatever form of education. It it can be in person. It can be online. Whatever. But we should provide it and then promote it. it does need to be promoted

and then it is up to them to learn more you know. Um, adding to that, when you were saying um, what you would want to see, I was thinking almost of like a civic engagement boot camp or something because I know the secretary of state does that actually with youth. Like my son participated in it when he was a senior in high school and they got walked through like all the processes and I know that like the health equity zones in Rhode Island do a lot of civic engagement education. So maybe we could have, you know, like when you have cherettes for a specific project. Maybe we could have interactive workshops that are just like more about the comprehensive plan and how to understand it or you know coming you know residents coming to understand like a meeting pro a public meeting process because I feel like that would also help with a lot of um

like the acrimony sometimes that people come because when I was saying about housing problems I know that there's a I know a specific person who is willing to do this workshop um from Rhode Island housing housing works. And it's basically a workshop that educates like average residents like any of us that were not experts in housing about why we need um low to moderate income housing and why it's important in the state. And because now with the new rules, like it would just be helpful for more residents to understand what that looks like so that when they come to meetings, they understand what the limits are of the decisions that we get or don't get to make. And also understanding um like the the example I've heard is like someone who's like a um like a hair stylist or a teacher assistant. They can't afford to live in our town because of how expensive the housing is, but they serve us and take care of our kids and everything. So it's like if we want a diverse community, we have to understand what the housing problem is in our whole state. And how many times have we had to explain that low to moderate income is not the same as section 8. Right. Right. The that the affordable housing has minimum and maximum salary requirements. But these are like it's like for a single I think it's single person I think it's $55,000 a year. This is not this is not this is not someone who's who's living off the you know this is a real job. They got a nice car. they can be part of that and then they also can't abuse the system because once they get over 75,000 h sorry you don't qualify anymore but to make it affordable but that is always equated I mean I was just talking to someone the other night someone who is very active in town a very active business person who

mentioned affordable housing and said yeah that's the new name for lowinccome and I said no it's not and I just gave a brief explanation Oh, really? And like I couldn't believe it. So, I'll even give the name Annette Manborn from Rhode Island Housing Works. She is willing to come to North Smithfield. She has a presentation that explains like what you're talking about. That that would put out half the pitch half of the, you know, torches that they're carrying when they walk in here and someone would leave their pitchfork at the door. You know, it's like that would just be so much better, you know.

And the other thing with desiloing, like Mr. reporter was talking about if we did do something across the um boards and commissions with like some kind of civic engagement boot camp or whatever that would help every board and commission not just ours. Absolutely. Um yeah. So yeah and I'd be happy to be part of that especially the desilo because you know my background as an engineer we always had you had to have each group you know mechanical engineering electrical engineering you know software engineering etc. uh get together and talk through things otherwise oh these two things don't fit together any oh that that that's a shame you know okay

and I mean building on what the climate resilience workshop um earlier a couple a month or so ago was working on even things like um social cohesion that helps people in the face of disaster it helps senior residents so those are more desiloing things that could go across the senior your commission. It could go across housing. You know, there's a lot of cross- sector things that would get like much more brought forward and people would feel better about living here, would feel better about showing up at meetings and not feeling like everything has to be such a um like a conflict all the time.

Okay, we should give out We can have like a little punch card. You know, if you show up at six planning board meetings a year, you get a gift certificate of bridges or something. I don't know. Just, you know, I mean, I think encouraging participation is a good idea, you know.

Um, Mr. Mr. Krue, one question I I had when we were looking over this uh article is that under our duties for uh number six is an annual report where we say that the the board shall report annually to the town council at the end of the fiscal year summarizing the work of the preceding year and recommending plans for future development of the town. How often do we do that? And and and I we won't hold you against it against this. Uh, no. I've never done it because we've we found it with other things that haven't been I'm I we I would I would defer to Bobby whether she's ever seen that happen.

I don't think since I've used to do annual plans for the town. Okay. Years ago, but I've never seen one done for the department. Okay. Or the planning board. Yeah. I've been on a little longer and I've never seen it. Yeah. No, it's it's it's funny. Just if he hasn't seen it, we haven't seen it. It hasn't been done. Okay. Sorry. It's it's one of those things that's popping up as we're going through all these sections. It's like, oh, we don't do that. Has that been done by anybody? And it's just a question, you know, a question not only in just this section, but multiple sections where we're finding that, you know, some of these things and activities may be outdated and and not worth

the time and effort or maybe they are that. So, it's just,

you know, asking the question if they've been done and if you know when the last time it was done. So, and then um the other thing that that has come up and I know this is part of the new general Rhode Island general law is um the idea of combining zoning and planning board to create a a a super board. Uh Mr. Kru, I don't know if you have any opinions on this. I know there's, you know, we have some very talented members on this board. We have some very talented members of the zoning board. And I would hate to lose any of them if there was any combination uh you know compilation of the two. But I I I was curious of your opinion and of of that option because I know the law has changed that we could do that option. But I'm not aware of the pros and cons as as well as you know you might be.

Well, you're the the planning board is currently acting under development review as the zoning board. So you're you're getting a taste of that experience. I mean zoning board has been more or less relegated to dimensional variances shed like a shed or if you're building a house you need setback uh relief. You mean you mean projects that don't come before the planning board? Right. For just for projects that don't any project that's coming before the planning board. the zoning board no longer has um any any role in

um with selfishly with regard to combining and creating one planning zoning board that would be additional work for staff in processing these sure minor applications and permits. Um we'd actually have to add a staff person the planning department. Interesting. that that we wouldn't be able to do it without doing that. We're we're barely able to keep I I'm not able to keep up right now. I'm going be honest with you. So, selfishly from that perspective with regard to, you know, the zoning board would be eliminated. So, if there would be a merger, there'd have to be reappoint

the planning board with either keeping the board in its current state or replacing members on the board potentially with zoning board members. Sure. you can't have, you know, two boards. But wouldn't that also mean there therefore that right now you have this separation of kind of major versus s small residential? Right. You I mean and we don't see the small residential now. We would have to see the planning board. I would ask I would turn that question over to the planning board. Would you like to review variances for sheds and and

you know minor projects like that? Yeah, it almost seems like that that things have been separated now into sort of major versus minor residential stuff, right? And and I don't know if commercial falls into some of the zoning board. Commercial could potentially fall into it if if it's small enough. Someone was coming in and looking for a deviation. You know, they they they their project was able to be built um simply by a building permit. And that's that would be a any building a project under 7,500 square f feet and then needed the dimensional variance to fully for one or two parking spaces. So So it's so it's almost become there's there's a major a planning board for major projects and a plan and a planning board for minor projects.

Yeah. Instead of the distinction because each handles zone zoning issues. Mhm. So, it's more like the names need to change, but it does sound like merging them would would mean that the one resulting board would have to see everything.

Yeah. And I'm I'm not sure like if if that was to happen, I'm not sure whether whether you would have to I haven't read the statute in over a year. Whether you would have to convene two separate meetings. one is the acting as the zoning board and the other acting as the planning board reviewing unified development. So that you know you you may I I'm not really you could I'm sure you could convene two meetings in one evening and call the meeting of the zoning board um and and address whatever minor variances were requested there then close that meeting and then open the meeting as a planning board and address some other things either in the same evening or two separate evenings

but I don't think yeah does the planning three hour limit want more tested more often I I I I understand the concept and I understand why the general assembly did it because as they were merging under unified development review they said well you know why not just have the planning board do everything. Yeah. No I I I and I appreciate that feedback Mr. Kulo it you know that sort of situation is going to be certainly town and city dependent and you know it's sounding like right now it's not the best thing for North Smithfield. I wouldn't I would agree be person. Yeah.

Yeah. I think there probably is some value though if you look at it rather than planning versus zoning and you say it's this kind of major minor thing because we're covering the same things for different scope of projects, right? there would be some value in periodically whether it's quarterly or whatever for the two to get together because we are covering the same topics to make sure that we're in sync and we're applying them the same way and you know that kind of thing. I think there would be some value in that so that it becomes more of a hierarchy. Yeah. You know, Mr. Chairman, if I may, things are working pretty smoothly right now and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Yeah. All I'm really suggesting is they rename it to be honest with you because um

but now that now that it's clear because I wasn't quite clear that that it is really this designation of really kind of large versus small and otherwise it's the same thing because I thought there I thought there were there could be cases where the zoning board might still deal with something that came through us and if that's clearcut then yeah great makes it much simpler actually. So, so for example, Mr. and you just you just touched on something. We had an application last month and an application this month where rather than the applicant applying to the two separate boards, right? They came unified development review for tractor supply. We just had that. They could have applied to the planning board for tractor supply, not applied for the sign and made a separate application to the zoning board just for the sign. And then you the zoning board could review that. They could come here and say we're not asking we're asking for relief for this as a unified development review. you would have approved it and then they could have applied to the zoning board and said, "Oh, we we would like a sign that's larger than allowed to go with this and the zoning board would only they wouldn't have any authority over anything you reviewed other than that sign if they wanted to bifrocate that those two applications."

How can they separate something that's part of that project? It's one because the because the sign is not a land use item related to planning and land use. It is simply a dimensional variance for a sign. as a matter of convenience, they did submit this part of the application. So again, they wouldn't have to go to two different boards, but that's their prerogative. Yeah, seems like a loophole, but Yep. Well, it is a loophole, but it's a but it's it's more time and energy for them, though. Yeah, that's the discouraging part, right? Exactly. I'm just I'm just Yeah, I get an example of the difference between what a zoning board would do versus what the plane board currently does,

right? Um, I just wanted to give uh Mr. Porter more feedback um to consider for that committee that you're on. I I feel like an open space plan is an example of like a crossd disciplinary plan that sits across things like planning, conservation, recreation, climate and social resilience and even like our historical society. And um I know in our comprehensive plan we have a section on open space, but I remember maybe in the last five years, maybe five years ago or six, um DJ Oer when he was on the town council brought up and proposed that we have that we develop an open space plan. And at the time it it wasn't voted up, but I feel like I want to bring that up because I feel like it fits under what you're talking about in terms of desiloing and planning that's like more integrated with other committees and like resident engagement too.

Okay. Well, thank you all. I appreciate the the feedback. Um, right. But please, please under know that there'll probably be more discussions to be had as well. Makes sense. Good. So, with that, I think there's only one thing left on the agenda. I'll move to adjourn. Second. Second. Those in favor? I opposed. No. Meeting is waiting waiting for the pitch. Meeting is adjourned at 8:12 patiently.