Municipal Council - Regular Meeting

Everyone, I now call to order North Star Municipal Council Work Session for Tuesday, June 16th, 2026. At this time, I ask everyone to rise for a moment of silence and follow the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We're going to move on to roll call. Madam Secretary.

Cody McCoy. Here. Nadir Robinson. Right. Natalie Colson. Here. Jasmine Griffin. Here. David McMahon. Here. Dustin Queenan. Here. Rashad Bates.

Tonight council met in an executive session on the matters of litigation, personnel, and public safety. Now we'll move into announcements. Does anyone have any announcements?

LIFE U Young Scholars Program Summer Camp, a summer experience for high school students. It's three weeks, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. at Roosevelt. Lunch and snacks will be provided. It'll have fun activities, career exposure, workshops, and opportunities July 6th through the 9th, July 13th through the 16th, and July 20th through the 23rd. And if you need further details about registering, you can talk to Teria.

Well, I have Town Hall, June 22nd, the Norristown Library starts at 6 p.m. Please come on down and talk to me. I would love to talk to you guys. And we're going to move on to public comment. Just remember, public comment gives you three minutes. We appreciate everybody if you can try to stay within three minutes. Thank you.

3 a.m.?

Good evening. All right, good evening, President, Council, and members of the City Council and the community leaders. My name is Terria Mayo, and I am here today to respectfully request your support and sponsorship for an upcoming Stop the Violence Community Day that I am organizing for the residents of Norristown. As many of us know, violence has touched far too many families in our community. It affects our youths, our neighbors, our neighborhoods, and our sense of safety and unity rather than standing by and accepting it as a reality. I believe it is our responsibility to come together and create positive opportunities that inspire change, hope, and healing. The purpose of this event is to bring our community together in a positive and meaningful way. Stop the Violence Day will provide a safe environment where families, youths, local organizations, businesses, and community leaders can connect, build relationship, and access valuable resources through educational activities, youth engagement, entertainment, guest speakers, and community partnership. We hope to promote peace, encourage mentorship, alternates to help with the violence. This event is not just about one day of activities. It is about creating a movement that reminds our young people that they are valued, supported, and capable of achieving greatness. It is about strengthening the bond between residents and community leaders while showing that Norristown stands united against violence. I am seeking sponsorship and support from city council to help make this vision a reality. Your contribution will assist with event expenses such as venue needs, permits, equipment, youth activity, educational material, community resources, and other necessary to host a successful and impactful event. As a resident who cares deeply about this community, I am committed to invest in my time and energy and to create a positive change. However, meaningfully change happens when we work together. With your partnership, we can create an event that not only brings our community together, but also has a lasting impact on our lives of our residents, especially our youths. I respectfully ask for your consideration and support. Together we can send a powerful message that violence does not define Norristown, or we silence compassion and commitment to one another and others. Thank you for your time, your service, and your dedication of our community. I appreciate your consideration and look forward to the opportunity to work together to make this event successful. Stop the Violence Community Day, respectfully, Tariya Mayo.

Tariya, did you give a date for that? I was looking at July 18th. Okay, July 18th.

All right, thank you. It says OTR. OTR.

How y'all doing today? My name is Hassan with OTR. This is my business partner, Leontay. I came to talk to y'all, tell y'all about what we do at OTR and things that we're trying to get from y'all. We need the community's help. We've been doing this stuff with just our team. We brought some people out today just to show y'all that we got some support with what we're doing. Our goal is to get y'all support with... the buildings that y'all have, other resources. We young, I'm 26, so I'm going through the motions too. On the Run means, we're trying to change the narrative of how we see the name On the Run in the hood. Most people, when we hear the name On the Run, we want to run from the law, from ourselves. OTR is trying to change that narrative through movement and understanding yourself. We use basketball, music to... do these things, and we host great events in our town. We hold basketball events, one-on-ones, two-on-twos. We do music showcases. We go down to the parks with the youth. We play with them. We do open mics and stuff like that. So my business partner, he's going to tell y'all some of the stuff that we've been doing as well. That's basically moral story why we're here is to try to get y'all support, start opening up the doors and bridging the gap between our influence and the leaders of Nardstown and try to make some things happen.

All right, can y'all hear me? My name is Lee Marlin. I'm also go by Leontay. I'm from here. I'm 33 years old. I've been through probation. I've been through the jails. I've been through all of that. And I feel like through his perspective, through my perspective, and the platform that we do have now, we generate over 10 million views every 30 days through our platform. Our artists are viral. We travel everywhere. And we can use that to, like Juneteenth, half that platform is our label. You know what I'm saying? Everybody in this town is going to come see us for about over an hour and a half. You know what I'm saying? And we can bring out a crowd. We could generate money. So basically, we're looking to bridge the gap by like, We don't know exactly how you guys can help. That's why we're trying to come here. But we see the resources that we do have, like the schools that we could throw events and stuff, and have a safe place for people to actually go do things. I'm class of 2011. And we used to have a Big Sisters, Big Brothers program. We used to have 21st Century program. We used to just have things. And I know I've been through the jail system and all that. But if you look at my background, I didn't do none of the gun stuff. I didn't do none of that stuff. I was really into it. Like, you know what I'm saying? I've been to college as well. I got kids out here. You know what I'm saying? So I just, I'm trying to use our platform. At this point, with how big we are, to be honest, you guys should be reaching out to us. You know, we're right here. You know what I'm saying? And everybody's following us, and everybody comes out. Like, when we leave here today, we're going to have plenty more people at Oak Street just to show support for what we're doing, and we're going to give an announcement for what we said here today. So I would appreciate y'all help. OTR.

Lee Marlin?

I was on there too for three minutes, but I see that we split the time, so I don't, you know what I'm saying?

But like we saying, we need y'all support. We want to start doing pep rallies, bringing pep rallies to the schools where we could bring celebrities, not only music artists, but people that's influential on the 1v1 scene. We've been doing a lot of stuff. We've got artists that signed in New York that deals with all the major celebrities that's out in New York and around the world. And we can start bringing them people here. We've done it already at El Jefe. Now we just need more resources, like opening up the doors to the buildings that we have. Now we understand if we're throwing an event that we're going to be charging people we need to pay pay those those fees for the things but we're doing stuff for the youth and community things we need y'all support to to make these things happen um we're doing everything out of our pockets you know i mean like i said i'm 26 and i'm still learning i'm still growing i'm not rich so this is where where's the getting using your help so that's pretty much all i got to say today and i hope to hear from y'all um connect soon and thanks for having us hearing us out

We're going to move to make a motion to approve the minutes. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes from the previous meeting? All in favor? Aye. The motion carries. And now we're going to go into the presentation of scenarios, and I hope I pronounced that correctly, financial modeling system.

Good evening, Council. Tonight I have invited Scenario to present their financial modeling system. This tool will help us forecast beyond a single budget year and better evaluate the long-term impact of major projects and financing decisions. As we researched the forecasting tools, I was impressed not only by their customer service, but also by its flexibility and its ability to estimate how our decisions will affect our credit rating. So at this time, I'd like to turn the presentation over to scenario. This is Jim Orms and his helper, Melissa Mace.

JIM ORMS Oh, she's way more than a helper, guys. And I am older than 34.

Just a year.

Just a year, guys. So thank you. Thanks for having us. Have a little PowerPoint, and then we'll go into the model just so I can show you. So welcome and good evening. I'm Jim. Melissa Mays is with me. She's a director with PFM Financial. PFM Financial owns Scenario, just so everybody knows. Scenario overview, as Kathy stated, Scenarios, cloud-based, it's a hosted application that managers, elected officials, finance teams, everybody in the municipal arena uses rather than using spreadsheets. So it helps you answer the what-ifs, okay? So I know that's small. I have trifocals and it's small, but we'll get into it. What is Scenario? It's a financial forecasting and modeling platform. And what that means is that we can create a bunch of different options and look at what impact those options have on your financials. So what if we do this or that, okay? Scenario helps you create and analyze those what ifs. And we'll show you that in a little bit. But what ifs, like what if taxes remain flat, right? Our revenue's not coming up. What if we lose 25% of our stormwater billing, which may or may not happen, right? We don't know. That's a whole mess. What would the new rates have to be to cover that loss? Who's going to pay them? Who's not going to pay them? All those different types of scenarios. What if we win the lottery? Well, then I guess we're all happy, right? But it provides a tool that you can analyze these things and it helps you be transparent to everybody, right? It's an on-the-go, live, living being that you can show up on a screen and then talk about it and analyze what you want to do. Capital funding and projects is a big, huge part of it. PFM helps hundreds of municipalities in Pennsylvania build recreation centers, community centers. What can we do? What are we able to do? Should it be a $10 million community center? Should it be a $50 million community center? We've offered to take Kathy and her staff on a little tour of some of them that have just been completed so you can really see what they cost. They're expensive. But it helps do all those things. And then after the building project's done, then what's the cost of running? You have to analyze that, right? Because building is just step one. You have step two and step three. You have to maintain it. You have to staff it. You have insurance, electric, all those horrible things that we all have to pay. So we help you analyze those things. What else can we help with? Scenario and PFM. We're here to assist you from long-range forecasting, salary negotiations, newer existing revenue projects, stormwater capital projects, and rate studies. We do all of it as a team. We also do data center stuff. We've done a lot of those throughout the country. We're not for or against data centers. We just help you analyze it. Is it right for a municipality? We've worked in Virginia where there seems to be the majority of them, but Pennsylvania is like three or four on the list of data centers, believe it or not, out of all the states. So there's a lot of pressure on you guys to deal with that. We can help you with that. Again, I'd like to introduce Melissa Mays. She can tell you a little bit about her and what she does with municipalities as well, and then we'll look at the model real quick, and then we'll entertain questions.

who assist local governments like Norristown with the debt issuance process. That's primarily what I do in my area of focus, so capital projects and, you know, there's debt associated with that. We work with a tremendous amount of local governments that you'd be familiar with and some that touch you, like the school district. the Norristown Area School District, like the county. I work for also Montgomery County Community College, like that should be another familiar name. And just in total, about 650 local governments across Pennsylvania with all sorts of projects like water, stormwater, community centers, electrical projects, you name it. If it's capital in nature, I've probably financed it. Even some crazy things, like one time I financed a Zamboni. No.

Where was that?

For the city of Greensburg.

Okay.

In Western Pennsylvania.

I'd like to drive one of those things.

That was what they needed.

Okay. Well, good. Can we open up the model, Melissa? Hopefully it didn't lock you out. Yeah, it's in the Google. Okay. So this is what the model looks like. Guys, I know it's small, but we can go through this. So this dashboard... is boundless exploration. And so it breaks down the funds. As you can see, it kind of looks like a financial spreadsheet there. But then up there on that slide that Melissa is clicking on, we can change from fund to fund, and it changes the view real time right on the screen. We can also play with things like don't shoot the messenger. Real estate tax increase. I'm not telling you to do it, but what happens if we raise it a half a percent? What does it do to our bottom line, right? What does it change here? There's... What other...

Yeah, we could increase everybody's salary. I like that one.

Yeah, what if we do salary increases? Melissa, no raise. Right? So we can set up all those different scenarios and look at what it does to our bottom line. So it helps us analyze all these different things. We can turn them all on and off real time and see what it does to the bottom line, which you have to be fiscally responsible. I was an elected official as well. So I feel for you guys. You know, it's a tough job. Retirement contributions, things like that. Do we have, your sewer authority is separate, but do we have a stormwater increase? Are we gonna have to make up that deficit? Who knows? The courts are still, they made a ruling, but there's so much chatter out there, who knows? all those different things that we can do, and it's transparent. Melissa, if you could, see the other taxes under 28 and 29, that $33,822,000, go all the way to the right. So it breaks it down, as Melissa's showing you, but if you roll it back up, and go all the way over and just highlight that. Yep, click on that and click that explain feature. So here's what drove me crazy when I was sitting in your position. I say, how do you get to that number? Because you're giving me a spreadsheet. This has the audit trail in here. So real time, no pressure, Kathy. But real time, I can show you all the math to back up that number. That's why it's transparent because I can drill down everywhere and get that exact bottom figure, okay? It's efficiency. It's not, I'll get back to you. I don't remember where that number came from. It's there, right? I think that's important. If you scroll down to, you can just close that. There's also some AI built in there. That's the newest feature we did. So it'll give you a summary of any of those numbers you click on. In detail or in summary view.

Want me to do that?

Yeah. So click back. Yep, just click on Insight. And click on that number again. And then you explain. And then Insight up at the top left.

and then just summaries fine and get insight.

So it goes out to our AI partner, which is Claude, if you know that terminology. It reads that number, whatever we clicked on, and then gives us a summary of this, of what that number is and checks all the math in there. Pretty cool, I think. It's a big time saver in writing a summary of what you're looking at. That's the first of many different iterations. The next one we're bringing out, probably September-ish, is it's going to do check for any anomalies. So if somebody puts a number in that's crazy because I off that finger numbers all the time, it's going to find that and flag it. So try to take some of the human error out of it. Let's scroll down, yeah, to the fund reports. Oops, up a little bit. So again, these we can break down. So if you want to see fines and forfeitures or total expenses or debt summary, when you click on any of those plus signs, it'll continue to break down. So it rolls it up to make it pretty. But it does give you your total revenues, your expenses. This mimics whatever your financial reports are, all your fund accounts, everything. So, it's yours. This is a demo, obviously. Let's go to the next dashboard. So, if you click on that dashboard up there, it has a lot of charts and graphs too, guys. But this one, is probably better. So once you set up all those different scenarios, and you task finance and management to give you options, we can create this type of dashboard where you can have two or three different scenarios. And then the system will build all these charts for you, and you can add as many as you want to just show what those different scenarios mean from a financial standpoint. Think it makes it easy. to figure out because it's graphical. I like graphs. I don't want to look at a hundred numbers after I've been working all day and then come to a meeting at night. It's tough. So, I think it makes it easier. You can define these scenarios various ways as Melissa just clicked on and wanted to show you what your choices are. Okay, and it shows you, hey, here's the net operating result. The other thing, see that Moody scorecard? That's your borrowing power. That's your credit score for a municipality, right? So it shows the results of all those different choices you make and what it's going to do to your interest rate, really. That's what it boils down to. So all those tools are built in there. There's no limitation on really anything. You can make as many or as few scenarios as you want. You can turn on everything on and off. You can put it all in one place. No more 10 spreadsheets with 100 tabs across the bottom, all in one model, all at your fingertips. And if you direct, she hasn't gone through training yet, but if you direct Kathy, create this We want to build a brand new building. And your building's beautiful, by the way, from what I remember 20 years ago. You can do that on the fly. So you can analyze everything. Give you more time to analyze and less time to enter into spreadsheets.

scenario many times, but this is the first time I've actually driven it myself.

And I didn't share this with her prior to us getting here at 6 o'clock.

So that tells you it's straightforward.

And she's really smart. So any questions, guys? I know that was quick, trying to be cognizant of your time.

The AI portion. QLUD has about like 4% hallucination rate when pulling values from complex documents, that kind of thing. What would be the ‑‑ are we going to be advised of that potential or the people using it, are they going to be able to be advised on how to cross check, you know, the things that we're seeing on the fly, that kind of thing?

We warn you. to death about AI is only as good as it is, and you have to verify everything you read. It's a tool to assist you, not a tool to just believe blindly. And that's in your own personal life, too. Just because you saw it on Facebook doesn't mean it's true, right? Same thing with AI. It makes mistakes. It's learning. It's just kind of like a child, right? So, yes, legally we have disclaimers everywhere that you have to verify. Corporately we have disclaimers everywhere because we use Claude in our business, too, to help us write summaries, proposals, do research, but you always have to verify. Just good common sense, but great question.

Because AI is not doing the computations within the software, right? AI is only doing the explanation portion.

Correct. Our systems engineers set up the logic, set up all the calculations, and verify that. The AI piece is just doing a summary of it. Yeah, it's not doing the work. Our systems engineers do that.

Councilwoman Robinson.

Thank you. You actually started answering my question. I was wondering how much was the breakdown between AI integration and whatever was your proprietary model, like who was building your code? If ever, do you use cloud or AI to also enhance or build and add to your code?

I'm not in that programming division. I'm sure they utilize it for things like, what do you see the future being? What are the next features we should put into our software? We continually, four times a year, we bring updates out into this product and platform. I don't think they're using AI to write code. I think that's best left to humans. I do think they'll use it in an advisory capacity.

We have an AI policy at PFM, and that's kind of what I need your access to do.

It's strict, too.

Okay. I didn't violate it yet, but it's early on, so.

And then it sounds like this is ultimately like a software, right? This is a platform that you can buy into. From what I was reading, this seems to be the availability is on a cloud-based platform. Storage system.

Can you tell just I'm just interested to know a little bit about who has access to that cloud and What that looks like for your data security, so it's hosted in Amazon Web Services right probably one of the biggest clouds out there the security is dual-factor authentication for everything We set up the security per your management rules so For police chief, I scared him away. We can lock him down just to the police budget. The security is very flexible. One phone call, one email to ours, if you do have somebody leave and you need to remove access, we can do that on the fly. Our support's right out of Philadelphia, Market Street.

In using this, you had mentioned something about relegating people to certain portions of the budget. This is a multi-user system then? Not just finance would have it, but it would be across departments?

Yeah, as many as you want.

Okay. And what does that look like for the data entry or the bringing in of data? Does it integrate anywhere with any other software or platforms?

So what we do, yep, so we have the ability to build an API and funnel in from your ERP system, your financial system. This being forward-looking, I don't think that's necessary. I do think good policy and procedure on an update refresh rate once a quarter-ish is probably enough because we're trying to project out five, ten years. With that being said, we could build the API. The import for us, we give you a spec. You export your data into a CSV or Excel spreadsheet. We import it in. Within the first week, you have a live model up and running. So we're quick. We want a complete implementation in 90 days. That's our internal rule. Life sometimes gets in the way. We don't allow anybody to take vacation in the summer. So we try to work through it. I'm only kidding. But that's our goal. The first training that you do will be on your real data and a live model. That's done within the first two weeks. Then our team, our systems engineers, meet with your finance team and your management team every week for an hour. And we follow a very specific checklist. Here's what we did. Here's what you gave us. Let's review it. Is this right? Does it make sense? And then move to the next step. So we move quickly. In the world of ERPs, which is where my background has been forever, you know, that process takes a year, two years. We're done in under 90 days most times. So, this I think we don't sell it as a budgeting tool, but it's also a budgeting tool, really. Everything you see here can be exported to, on the transparency side. So, you want to post this on your website, these charts and graphs. Yet, you know residents feedback on it. You're more than happy to do that. And you can have read-only rights as well, right. So, we can lock everybody down. So, all they can do is look. But, anywhere in between.

This is my last question. Just as we evolve in the world of technology and so many things come into play, updates come into play, and with cost services, typically when you leave a contract, you lose access to all your data and things like that. Can you tell me a little bit about what happens when clients migrate maybe to other platforms or discontinue services on your platform?

There's an export function built in. You own it. You can export anything you want whenever you want through Excel or CSV. You can export to PDFs. So there's no... We don't lock you out of your own data. It's your data. It's your system. If you choose not to use it anymore, that's fine as well. We turn off the access to it. You take your data back and everything's fine.

Thank you.

So, it's got to be easy. So.

Well, my comment or question is probably to Kathy. I would assume this is something that you would love to have Right. And time-wise, how much time do you think it might save you?

How much time I'll save? Yes. We're not really doing this now. Okay. I don't have time to do this. I mean, it's a great program. We have a lot of support. I tell them what scenario I want and what scenarios we want to see, and then it calculates.

So if I'm hearing correctly, right now you can't even do this without this software. Well, you could, but it would be very, very time consuming.

I wouldn't be able to do anything else for weeks.

Okay. But it would give us a little better insight into the possibilities of what could...

And I guess

You kind of touched on it, Mr. Robinson. Is there a yearly fee or quarterly?

It's just an annual subscription fee that covers the hosting. I locked your price in for three years for you guys, so it can't increase, unless you add 10 more users, obviously. But if you just use the system that I quoted, I locked in the price for three years for you guys.

And do you deem, Kathy, that would be adequate?

you're looking at right now okay i like the speed which they work they have a big team behind them pfm and the support that we've had before so i'm anxious to start playing with it right well i i'm i'm joking a little bit but i could see this Right. And that's where I was going.

Like, you know, I like to ask questions. You're probably like, look, I got it right here. So, okay. I appreciate your input. Any other questions?

Yes, I just have a question. How much is the annual fee?

I think I quoted $20,000 a year. $20,000 a year? And the first year is set up and everything included.

Okay.

So...

Okay, any more questions? Well, thank you for presenting to us today. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Have a great evening.

And I guess our next presentation is from Markley Rehabilitation and Health Center. Oh, you said they're not here today. That's what you were telling me. Okay, so rain check on that one. And we'll go into... Resolution, appointments for resolution number 26-50, the request for council to approve an appointment to boards and committees and commissions. Anybody want to?

Council President, Vice Presidents, we have the following staff who have It's elected to be approved by you to sit on the Planning Commission. Jade Utz for a term expiring December 31st, 2030. And Fernando Fabriciano, Jr. And the term is proposed to expire on December 31st, 2030 as well. As you are aware, Council, APPLICATIONS ARE IN THE PACKAGE. THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT DID CHECK TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE NORRISTOWN RESIDENTS AND BRINGING FORWARD EXPERIENCE AND I WOULD SAY QUALIFICATIONS THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION. And we're asking tonight that Council approve them because the Planning Commission has been without full membership for a long time. And given that there are quite a number of large projects that are coming down the pike, it's essential that we have a full working Planning Commission to make recommendations to Council.

Okay. Any questions or comments from the Council? Okay. Seeing none, do I have a motion to approve Resolution 26-50? Make a motion to approve.

Second.

Madam Secretary?

William McCoy?

Aye.

Adira Robinson? Aye. Natalie Colson? Aye. Jasmine Griffin? Aye. David McMahon? Aye. Dustin Queenan?

Aye. Motion is approved. Resolution 26-52, request for municipality council to authorize the municipality to enter into a professional service agreement with Plante and Moran, I might have butchered it, but PLC to provide internal review and related services.

Councilor McEwen, the request before council is for council to enter into an agreement for professional services with Plante and Moran. PLLC to provide internal review and related services. and this is so the council can authorize the municipality of Norristown, sorry, for Plante and Moran for $80,000 to provide internal control, review, and related services in accordance with Plante and Moran's PLLC's proposal that is dated May 20th, 2026, and I had forwarded that proposal to council members in a separate email.

Okay. Any questions or comments? Okay. Seeing none, do I have a motion?

Second.

Second. Okay. Madam Secretary.

William McCoy. Aye. Nadir Robinson. Aye. Natalie Colson. Aye. Jasmine Griffin. Aye. David McMahon. Aye. Justin Queen.

Aye. Resolution 2652 passes. Resolution 2647, request for Municipal Council to approve the purchase of one 2030 Pierce Enforcer Pumper.

Good evening, Municipal Council. Before you this evening for consideration is resolution 2647. It's requesting the Municipal Council to approve the fire department to place an order now. For a fire truck that will be delivered in 2030. By us doing this now, it kind of locks this skyrocketing cost in, gets us in a queue into the bill. And it enables us to better plan for our budgeting, but it also allows us to desperately replace the fire apparatus that are aging. The average age of our fleet is about 17 years old for our frontline apparatus. When this truck is delivered in 2030, it will replace a truck that is 37 years old. So it has served our community well. Again, this is part of the approved, this year's approved capital improvement program as well.

Okay. Any questions or comments? Councilwoman Robinson.

Chief, thank you for this and for constantly making sure that our equipment is available. Obviously, your team does an amazing job of helping to keep this community safe. I just wanted to confirm some things that I think are helpful to know. Just to reiterate, you said that this is helping us to lock in these skyrocketing costs. So there is a process that allows us, and with this all going on, there are expiration dates on these costs. So us being able to move in this moment allows us to lock that in and guarantee that we can do this at a manageable rate. Is that correct?

That's correct. In fact, the price quote expires June 30th, and then we'll probably see another 7% to 10% markup rate on the fire apparatus. Pierce Manufacturing is a costars vendor. That's who we're going through. The pricing is guaranteed. It is locked in. There is other fire apparatus out there that you buy that You don't know the cost of what you're paying until the truck's delivered, right? And so this is the beauty of ordering from a company that's reputable, responsible, that we currently have now. And locking in the cost is really what we're trying to do is God knows what the cost of this fire truck will be in 2030.

Awesome. And just to, this is already approved within this capital improvement, but also will give you forecasting into your budget planning and scenario planning in the years to come. And just to confirm that we are not paying these costs, even though we're locking in this price, the payment is not due until the four-year window when we actually receive delivery of the vehicle.

That's correct. The truck, you don't have to put anything down other than provide them with a purchase order, and payment's not due until the truck is ready to be delivered.

Thank you. My last, just my last question about the decommissioned vehicle that you said has been in service for 37 years. Can you just, for my own insight, tell me a little bit about what it looks like to decommission a vehicle. Is there any, do you, are we able to recover any expenses for it? Is it something that's recycled? What happens with the old vehicle and is there any way for us to gain anything back?

Pennsylvania's procurement, the way we sell our, municipal government has to sell equipment, we lose money, right? The way that the state, Tells local government how we get to sell stuff through bid. If we were a volunteer fire company, they would be able to get top dollar for a fire truck. I could tell you that a fire truck that's 37 years old is not worth much. While we maintain all of our fire apparatus here, the best shape possible, the older the trucks get, the more often they're in the shop getting repaired. And also, it's very hard to find parts. So a lot of times when these trucks leave our department, they're not ready for any parades, they're ready for retirement. And so in previous, we've sent trucks to auction and only got a couple thousand dollars. So I think one of the trucks, the highest price we got was maybe $15,000, $20,000. So a truck that's 37 years old really doesn't have much of a shelf life anymore.

Any other comments or questions? Well, I have a comment. I appreciate having the time that you gave me to sit down with you and Kathy to have that discussion because I had a couple of questions. And you brought to my attention, which I think is great. We don't have to pay for this until we pick it up, which in my mind, not cheap I am, gives us four years to try to save money to put down the biggest down payment we've made.

There's one thing Crandall Jones taught us. It's got to be cheap. And prove it.

So that made me happy because that, to me, charged us, the council and administration, to try to see if we could save money so we don't have to finance the whole amount. And also that, once again, as always, everybody knows, I just want to say it, safety. you know between everybody here especially the fire department police department is working hard and diligently towards safety and i know you guys like i said before i appreciate you guys asking for the best of us i just know sometimes we have to deliver bad news because we can't afford it but this is one thing that with that leeway we still have the money like you said but it gives us all it gives us time to find different ways to pay for grants this that look at our own budgets and things of that nature

so i do appreciate the time that you've given the community and also me recently uh with kathy so thank you if anybody wants to see this is the 300 page document of specifications right of really what goes into designing these these fire trucks essentially from frame rails they put two pieces of steel down and they build a fire truck from the ground up, right? So none of these are, go pick them off a parking lot. Every one of these trucks are specifically designed for our tight streets and specifically designed for communities like ours where we're really in an urban environment and we need that type of fire apparatus where we can maneuver our tight streets and get into some of our neighborhoods.

So I'm looking for a lunch for you to go over page by page and explain that to me.

I'll provide a dissertation.

I have a question. How many pumpers do we have? Is it just the one? So we have four currently. Four currently, okay.

So we have a 2024 rescue pumper that is relatively new. We have a 2012 pumper. We have a 1993 and a 1997. Did you say anything?

Okay. Okay. And then the rescue one, was that also done by Pierce? It was. I believe it was. Okay.

And we have a brand new ladder truck on order that will be delivered. That was ordered for some of you legacy members of council. That was ordered three years ago and that should be done. Hopefully we'll be out doing a final inspection in it around the end of the summer and hopefully it'll have a service before the end of the year.

And for people that don't know, that one is really particular to our community. It was. Because our streets are narrow, and they found this wonderful truck that we could navigate our streets, and so many cars would be safe. But that's a great thing for the streets you can get around, because time is of essence.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, Madam Secretary. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do I have a motion? I'm ready to jump to it.

Second.

Madam Secretary?

William McCoy?

Aye.

Adira Robinson? Aye. Natalie Colson? Aye. Jasmine Griffin? Aye. David McMahon? Aye. Isaac Queenan?

Aye. Okay. Resolution 26-47 passes. Okay. Planning and Municipal Development. Resolution 2648, bid to award for 104 East Main Street Historical Facade Project.

Good evening, Council. Good evening. This is a request for Council to authorize to award the bid to Urbina General Contractors LLC in the amount of $38,950. for work as part of our historic facade program, which will be connected to the 104 East Main Street property, which is part of the program. A little history for the historic facade program is that it allows funding to businesses and other large commercial properties for up to $40,000 to perform facade work. The facade program is funded through county ARPA funds, and administered through the plan department with help from our consultant team, Landmarks LGA. So for this particular property, the bid documents and drawings were issued from Landmarks for a bid set dated on May 4th. The project was publicly advertised per our code on the municipal website and twice in the Times-Herald on May 5th and May 11th for bids due on May 21st. A mandatory pre-bid conference was held on May 7th, and three contractors attended that meeting. And this was the sole bid that we got out from that meeting. So the historic facade grant will cover around $34,000, and the rest will come from the property owner per the historic facade guidelines and requirements. So this is a recommendation for council to approve Resolution 2648 to issue the award contract to urban and general contractors for $38,900 for 104 East Main Street so we can continue to beautify Main Street in Norristown. Any questions?

Thank you. Any questions or comments, counsel?

Just a quick comment. Shout out to you, Vince. I'm just excited for you in this moment. You've been a part of this shift and all the things that are happening. So cheers for presenting to us tonight. I don't know if this is your first time, but it's my first time having you share something at this space. And it looked really interesting, the project overall. Thank you for the clarity that this is the $38,900 is our portion, and there's still a contribution from the property owner. That was going to be my question, but you already answered that question. And I was just wondering if there was any insight that could be shared, if any, knowing that we only got one bid. I know that that's kind of seeming to be something that's happening across different areas. Was it a matter of maybe the specs wanted overall? Or do we have any indication of understanding why we didn't receive more bids?

Yes, this has actually been an ongoing issue for many years. These jobs are small. They're small for certain contractors, and they're too big for the very small contractors. So it's a sweet spot. But the good news is that prior to that, when we used to just offer up to 14,000, we barely got any bids. We would have to keep going out over and over again. So when we increase the budget to about 40,000, that's actually gaining some traction. Later on, Vince will provide an update on the overall historic facade program. As you're all aware, we were very anxious to use the funds as they will expire at the end of the year. And he will let you know that there's a lot that's out there, about four others that are being bid. And we are gaining interest, and we are hoping that once this contract is in place, doing the work, it will also attract other contractors to come and bid on our. Is that the progress?

Yes, we're also brainstorming other ideas for how to reach different contractors through like our small business assistance center and maybe other ways to kind of advertise the big the bids for those.

Thank you. My last question is just where the property is located. I know it's on that stretch of Main Street. I was wondering, is there an active tenant for use of the space currently?

There, so it was a coffee shop. Right now it is getting converted into a coffee repair shop, coffee maker repair shop. That was the last I heard.

Thank you, I just wanted to confirm. I know there's been a few things over the years. I just wanted to know if there was activity there.

I wish it was a coffee shop still, but whatever.

Okay, any more questions?

Okay, seeing none, do I have a motion? Madam Secretary.

William McCoy. Aye. Peter Robinson. Aye. Natalie Colson. Aye. Jasmine Griffin. Aye. David McMahon. Aye. Dustin Queenan.

Aye. Resolution 2648 passes. Resolution 20, I mean resolution number 26-49, the bid award for 109 East Main Street sidewalk repair and request to waive intent to award fees.

So I'm sure you're all familiar with this corner at the Cobb and Main. This is a request for council to approve a contract so that we can fix that area to JPS Construction Company in the amount of $300,000 or $327,000 for the 109 East Main Street sidewalk fill and replacement services. Additionally, we request that the municipality or the council to waive the intent to award phase, which is normally what we'd have before the final award, based on the urgency of this project, because we're trying to get it moved along. A little history on this is in June 2023, the municipality was notified of an active structural failure beneath the public sidewalk along the frontage of 109 East Main Street. The structural assessment identified significant deterioration and failure of the steel beams supporting the underground sidewalk vault, resulting in unsafe conditions and partial collapse. Due to these unsafe conditions, the sidewalk has since been closed to pedestrian and vehicle access. This was also part of our Main Street streetscape work that has been paused because of this failure on that corner there. So the solicitor's office has also been involved regarding the responsibility for the condition, enforcement options, litigation considerations, and potential costs. We're kind of drawing up the time here. And for some of the facts on this is Pannoni has prepared, our engineers have prepared a conceptual estimate for the corrective work for demolition of the fault lid, as well as sidewalk reconstruction. The bids for 109th sidewalk repair project were advertised through PennBid on May 8th and May 15th and received on May 29th and one bid was received for that. JPS, again, Construction Co. is asking for $327,000. The bid consists of, you'll see the breakdown in the transmittal, consists of $274,000 for structural repairs that were paid through the county ARPA funds, and the remaining $53,000 for sidewalk repairs will be funded using Multimodal Transportation Fund, as well as CDBG grant funds. And because the property owners aren't able to pay for this portion of his property, we're putting a lien on that property. So we are recommending council to approve resolution 2649 to issue the bid award to JPS Construction with the bid of 327,000 for 109 East Main Street. Get that back to normal. Thank you.

All right. Council, any questions or comments?

I just have a question.

I have a question so that there's clarity over the process. The resolution before us tonight is to waive the intent to award phase. If you could, could you just give an idea of what is in that phase? What is actually being waived, if possible?

Yeah, I can answer that. So because there won't be that threshold of 350,000, They don't have to meet the RCO requirements, which I think I brought up before. There's like 15 requirements. One of the main things is that we want to make sure, if they're part of a union, they have an apprenticeship program. But because they're under the $350,000 threshold, they don't have to meet that. So really, they could just go to, and I think they were the only bid, so go straight to the final award for this.

So just so I'm clear, we're waiving something that they don't qualify, they wouldn't be responsible for anyway?

Technically, yeah. We don't even really have to waive it. We can go straight to the final award of the project.

Well, I'm glad it's getting fixed. That sidewalk's been on the commission for a while. It's the safety, the appearance. And on a side note, I definitely want to bring up about that apprenticeship.

We'll discuss that later.

Any other comments or questions? Okay. Seeing none, do I have a motion to approve?

So moved.

Second.

Okay. Madam Secretary?

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye. All right. Then we're going on to public works. Resolution number 26-51, request from municipal council to authorize change order number one for sawmill run COVID repair project, parentheses, Hoffman property.

Yeah, even council. Yeah, so I'm before you tonight to request to approve a change order. This would be for the work associated with phase three. Okay. Just to give you background, phase one and two have been completed. That was part of the VCO property, which now I believe is the tire.

Excuse me. Can we interrupt for one second? It's actually associated with Phase 2. I spoke to Cal.

No, it actually is Phase 3. It is Phase 3, I confirmed. Phase 3A is actually what we just submitted and got approval for the DCED Flood Mitigation Grant. So both are like a Hoffman property, but this is an actual phase three. Vico was phase, yeah. So Vico was phase one and two. This is now phase three, the Hoffman property. The reason for the construction change is because when they went in there to do the work, as they were taking down any stucco, concrete, they were finding out there was more problems than what they were actually able to see. So that's the main reason for this construction change. Basically they're completed what they have here. They still have some work to do. But really it came down to the unforeseen conditions during construction.

If I may, the change order would be funded through ARPA funds, as well as I spoke to the finance director, and she said it's ARPA funds and a mixture of CIP funds. So it's not coming from general fund. Yes.

I just have kind of a comment. So, I mean, this is part of a, you know, flooding plan, you know, for Norristown. I just want to, I can't help but note that, like, upstream from us, there are things going on that maybe council needs to consider having a role in. You know, the building up of Barbados Highlands. Right? Up in Bettswood, the project to upstream from us, they're channelizing the river. They're displacing river volume that may have implications for us down the road in a flooding scenario. So I just want to point out that while we're looking to you know, repair damage and do flood mitigation, we also need to be kind of proactively looking at what's happening upstream from us. And Jim Waters. Yeah, you're talking about outside of the municipality. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, Jim was not here tonight, but I just wanted to almost kind of speak on his behalf on highlighting the concern that we need to be, when we're thinking about flood mitigation and repairing previous damage and that kind of stuff, there are things currently happening that might impact us down the road. Thank you for that.

Solicitor might have to get involved in it.

Well, remember, water is a common enemy in Pennsylvania. That is a legal doctrine in Pennsylvania. But you are correct, Mr. McMahon, that a lot of municipalities have begun to have to start working together to figure out and solve the problem. I know I'm involved in a group of municipalities that are possibly going to form a consortium to address stormwater issues, including health of our creeks and riverways. It's not just the volume. It's also the quality of the water as well. But you are correct. You do need to look at those things, and it's difficult because you need to get the buy-in and cooperation of your neighbors.

And that all ties into the MS4, too, and that's what you want.

Yeah, and we have the county itself staying in Stony Creek, you know, when we had flooding through the park. So, you know, while we're looking to talk about repairing pest damage, we want to also be kind of get proactive on it. 35 acres along the riverfront and stuff so the rivers you know if we're not careful it's being channelized and if we're not part of these conversations you know we're going to be the relief right we're going to feel the impact yeah thanks for bringing that up councilman uh

Council Member Robinson.

Yes, I just had a question. You said that this increase was related to, it sounds like, Phase 3A, just to confirm. I was wondering if you could help me from the scope of it. How many more phases left to go? Are we in the past?

So the phase that we just got approval for, for submission for the DCED Flood Mitigation Grant, that is the final phase, yeah.

I'm asking because I'm sure there might be more to uncover, and I'm just wondering, as we navigate this, is this something that we can start to prepare ourselves for?

That's something that could happen. We don't know right now until, you know, once we get into construction, that's something that might be a possibility. We might find out that we have to, you know, do additional remediation.

If I could ask, and I think it's related to your question, Councilwoman Robinson, and I apologize for interrupting. Ted, for the next phase, is that... The current phase that we're talking about here are all related to work that was basically underneath a building. And that's part of what was discovered was... This building sits atop a culvert, and so there's an area between the culvert and the floor of the building that you couldn't really see until you start getting in there. The next phase of the work, is that a part of the more the daylight area where there is not a structure above it?

That goes from Vico, which is at the corner of Penn and Arch. Well, it used to be Vico. It's a tire store now, all the way back to where Daylight's at Main Street, where the Hoffman property is.

So would it be fair to say it's really not going to be underneath any buildings anymore? Not saying that there isn't going to be, but the same risks involved that you would have underneath a building might not be as present for the remaining phase. That's correct. Yes. I'm not promising anything, but I just want to be helpful to give you conceptually as to what's been going on and why there might have been more change orders now because of where the work was being performed as opposed to what work is left.

Thank you that that is helpful in my last session was just going to be to understand as you as you come in the Council and you come in kind of mid project or mid process on these things what I also like to understand, while we understand where we are in the phases is. What impact does this may be potentially have to surrounding businesses and we get through the work, but also I read, I believe in my packet that at some point, the work was delayed I didn't know if we were able to speak to what the delay was.

Well, I'll just say that this work is related to litigation involving Vicos and Hoffman. As a part of litigation, there is always some back and forth. I can certainly say that there's been a lot of communication with both the property owners over the years about the work that is being performed, and sometimes that can impact the timing of when work is performed, because obviously we need access to some areas which would be considered private property, and they have to give us that authorization in order to be able to do some of that work. So some of that delay is probably related to just general litigation-related matters.

And waiting for grants as well.

Well, and also waiting for grants to be able to fund the work so it doesn't have to come out of your general funds.

Okay, any more comments or questions?

Do I have a motion? Madam Secretary?

William McCoy.

Aye.

Leah Robinson. Aye. Mollie Colson. Aye. Jasmine Griffin. Aye. David McMahon. Aye. Justin Queenan.

Aye. Resolution 2651 is approved. Now moving to departmental reports.

Mr. President, if I may. We will not be having the Recreation Department present tonight because they actually had presented in April. So this was an error that is on the agenda.

Okay.

They will be coming back, but not tonight.

Okay, thank you. And the first one up will be, who wants to go? Who wants to wow us with their report? Yeah, fire, there you go. One of the favorites.

Mr. President, Municipal Council, good evening. This is your operational summary for the fire department for the month of May. The fire department responded to 137 incidents. Our average response time was three minutes and 29 seconds. Our busiest day of the week was Sunday. The fire department hosted 196 training sessions in the month of May, totaling 306 hours in training. We had one firefighter injury for the month, zero civilian injuries for the month. The fire department inspected eight commercial properties. held 10 public education events, visited 218 homes to install smoke and carbon dioxide alarms, which resulted in us installing 20 of those. The fire safety house went to one public event for the children, and our fleet was out of service for a total of 10 hours for the month. That's it.

Any questions, comments?

All right.

Appreciate you.

Thank you.

I guess that just leaves planning.

just a few properties we picked out just to showcase some of the developments and projects that we've been working on in different phases throughout their land development. So we'll start off with the biggest project we have going right now, which you probably saw if you were on our social media last week. This is just a little history on this one. It's the proposed mixed-use redevelopment at the 60-acre site of the Norristown State Hospital. is expected to generate over $300 million in private investment. It's supposed to create jobs and significantly strengthen the local tax base, which is nice. The residential breakdown of this project is 340 townhomes, 258 new apartments, four commercial spaces, and five individual sort of flex industrial spaces. This recent update we have on this So in 2025, municipal council approved the zoning text and map overlay for the site. Conditional use was approved in December last year, and the preliminary land development application was submitted in June 2026. So hopefully in the near future, we'll have the engineers start doing their reviews for that project. Next we have the two-way DeKalb Street conversion project. This is to change the existing one-way corridor into a two-way traffic system to improve circulation, enhance safety, and strengthen access to downtown Norristown. The corridor extends approximately 1.5 miles and includes about 20 intersections, serving as a key connection into our downtown area, which we desperately need. A traffic study that was completed indicated that the conversion could reduce vehicle speeds, improve pedestrian safety, and increase visibility and access to local businesses. The update we received was that in the preliminary engineering is now underway following completion of all prelim engineering activities and is expected to continue through spring of 2027. Final design is scheduled to begin in the summer of next year and conclude in early 2029, followed by project bidding and awarding in spring of 2029 and the start of the construction finally in the summer of 2029. Our current construction estimate is approximately $7 million and is funded through PennDOT and the Federal Highway Administration. Next, we have the Lafayette Street Extension Project. This project is in coordination with the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission and Montgomery County, as Montgomery County is leading the Lafayette Street extension between the future interchange area and downtown Norristown. PennDOT and the county have completed phases one through three, including the reconstruction and widening of Lafayette Street, the relocation of the SRT Trail, and creation of a linear park, which has now opened traffic, as we know. The update that I received is that Section A, of the Ridge Pike project is advancing through final design with construction anticipated to begin around March of 2027. The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's work will follow once the bridge replacement and roadway widening are underway. And based on the current scheduling, the Turnpike portion of the project is expected to begin approximately 2029. It's a busy year for these two projects. And they won't be able to start that 276 extension until that section A is complete. So that's what we're waiting for right now. Next is the Montgomery County Justice Center. This is a $500 million project that includes expanding the county offices at Montgomery Plaza, in addition to renovations to the courthouse, garage, and an overhaul of Hancock Square Park. So where they're at right now is exterior, sidewalks, garden beds, and open spaces are currently being worked on. The interior and millwork in the courtrooms has been completed or is being completed. And substantial completion and department moves from their old section to the new is expected to happen in the quarter three of this year. And the building is expected to be in full operation by the end or Q4 of 2026. And if you're curious about some of the other sort of updates on that property, it's on the county website, and they keep that up to date pretty often. So next is the Arbor Place project, the old Kennedy-Kenrick High School. So this was a vacant high school for over 10 years on the almost 13-acre property. The developer It's a homeowners association project with 317 residencies consisting of apartment units, townhomes, duplexes, and triplexes, and 568 proposed parking spaces. Council approved zoning changes to support the development in 2021, and the investment by developers is projected to be around $117 million. Update on this is as of April 2026, multiple buildings have been completed and occupied. Construction continues to progress without delays. The first phase of the garden apartment complex has been completed. Phase two, which includes two four-story buildings with 80 luxury apartments, along with clubhouse and pool, is underway and nearing completion. The expected occupancy for the garden apartments is in the fall of 2027. And for the next phase, phase three, will include the construction of 35 single-family, two-story residential row home units. And final plans for phase three have been submitted just recently. And the first occupancy for that section or that phase is expected in early 2027. Next is Montgomery Park Senior Housing. which is a three phase project. The first phase consisted of four story 50 unit construction building, the total development cost of 14.7 million, which was completed in 2018. Second phase was a four story 42 unit construction building or construction with total development cost of 13 million, which was done in 2021 or completed in 2021. And the third phase is a four-story, 42-unit new construction building with estimated development cost of $13 million. And that construction is currently underway. And here are some photos that we recently took over the last couple of weeks. So the one on the top left is an older photo from last year. And you can see the development that's gone on since then. Next, we have Stinson Hall, 1651 Market Street. This is a proposed multifamily residential building with garden-style condominiums. The project consists of a three-story building with 18 dwelling units and a parking located in the rear of the building. Access to and from the lot will be by two-way existing driveways, one from Markley Street and one from Unopened Roberts Street. The proposed project's investment is $4 million. So demolition and site preparation work have been completed, including removal of existing structures, utility capping and clearing activities. Erosion and sediment control measures have been installed. The project is currently progressing through site work and preparation for vertical construction. So you can see how they have some of the driveways and also the parking lot is almost complete. Next is 1020 Violet Street. This is a little over 14,500 square foot property that was a single family home, now converted into five individual parcels with five new properties on those parcels. The row homes have been completed. The estimated sale price for those homes is around $400,000 with a lease price of almost $2,700. This sort of gives you a chronological timeline how this project went through. And you can see I found these two photos on realtor.com, so they're already posted on. So this is a more recent project that has just started their land development application. This is 240 West Johnson Highway right next to Logan Square. They are proposing to construct a four-story, 50-unit residential building on a 1.5-acre lot adjacent, as I said, adjacent to Logan Square. The proposed building will have a full basement and roof access and 68 parking spaces offered on-site. We had a pre-application meeting with the developer in January, and they had just recently submitted for their prelim final land development. So that's an exciting one coming up. 1340, 1342 Markley. Not a lot with this one. This is two twin dwelling units at 1340 Markley Street. The project is well underway and we expect this to be done by the end of the year, early next year. 902 Violet Street. So the developer who actually owns this family parcel that he grew up in, that home, he proposed development of five modern new row homes located at 9M2. Proposed project will construct energy efficient LED light lit three bedroom, two and a half bath row homes with office space, one car garage, and driveway. And the developer is looking between $400,000 and $500,000 for these. The developer received zoning approval in February 25th, 2025. The developer submitted sketch plan in June of 2025. The developer received recommendation of approval from the Planning Commission and Design Review Board. And we just took them from sketch plan and asked them if they wanted to do land development, sort of speed the process up for them. So right now, the developer is expected to submit the prelim final land development plan soon. Just waiting for some funding on this. But these are the most recent plans for this development. Lastly, we have the Trail Junction Center, which I'm sure you've seen going into Bridgeport, right on Lafayette and DeKalb. The Montgomery Planning Commission proposed building improvements to create a functional trail junction center at the foot of the former Arts Hill, right next to the School River Trail there. This project broke ground in October of last year And renovations are expected to be complete by the end of this year, actually. So you can see sort of every time I go by, there's more and more that they're getting done. So I think that's a realistic time frame for them. And I know Jane mentioned Historic Facade, which I forgot to put on here, but I do have some updates on that. So for the Historic Facade program, we have 15 properties currently approved in the program at different phases of their process. 104 East Main, which I brought to you earlier, is the first to get awarded a contractor. We have eight other properties that are in the bidding phase right now. One which has already received HAARP, which will be coming for you at the next council meeting. Four are going to HAARP later this month. And one of the more recent applicants is right now in the big drafting stage. So that's all I have for tonight. Thank you.

Any comments or questions?

Thank you for that. That was very comprehensive and a lot of information. It's also really great to see so much movement on these projects. I quickly just wanted to circle back to 240 West Johnson Highway. I just remember, if I remember correctly, this was the old Pizza Hut property and those developers had come before council to present at one time.

It's between the old Pizza Hut and this.

I remember though that they came before council and I remember there were a lot of questions. Myself having a lot also, can you, you had mentioned that they're in the land application phase. Can we just talk a little bit about what phase that is and where they're at? And also I'd love the opportunity and I can reach out to other information. I'd love to just learn more about it because we had a lot of questions when they came before us before.

Yeah, so I believe at this point they're in, the engineers are reviewing their application. They had a pre-application meeting with them.

If you don't mind, they'll be coming to the Planning Commission. Yes. That's why it's very important to have the Planning Commission all. So they'll be going to the Planning Commission. The Planning Commission will review and make their recommendation. We've also sent that application to the Montgomery County Planning Commission. They'll also send their review. So we'll couple the engineer's review. planning commission local and the county and all that will come to council for presentation in the land development phase. And some of the questions you're speaking of hopefully will be answered even at that point. But that's just the beginning of the land development. It's not the completion. Thank you.

Just wanted to confirm.

Sorry. Say it better than I do.

Any other comments or questions?

I have. few questions. I'll reduce them. So I started looking through the preserve at Stony Creek plans a little bit. I just kind of started with the traffic part of it. But what I haven't seen yet really, and this because it wouldn't really be within the purview of the developer per se, but I don't see anything about bike lanes and that kind of traffic, even pedestrian traffic, trying to connect the farm park with Elmwood Park in a very convenient way. If we're going to be opening up that stretch of road to traffic lights and signal changing and all that kind of work, widening. Taking that into account may not be on the developer's radar, but it could be on us as planning to make sure that it's within the scope of the project to think about how we connect those places that people are visiting and kind of get different types of traffic, not just automobiles kind of through that area. So that was one. Comment I had is if that if that's or something already in the works that way Or if it could be kind of pursued because I know like in the parks in the in the park plan for Elmwood Park I mean they're looking to making that consideration on how to deal with traffic coming across the bridge there over Stony Creek and making sure that bike lanes are included in that and and within the park itself and then kind of building on that to connect out to the farm part and Farm Park seems like a logical next step as well. And if we're there kind of like doing some design work to Sturridge or there, that this might be part of what we've considered.

Yes, so I know a traffic study was included in there. We're still waiting for our engineer's review on that and what sort of the analysis that'll come out of that. But like Jane said, for 240, we'll also be going through that same process with the Planning Commission and then back to Council. So those are questions that can come up and they can be addressed during that process. Jane.

And I neglected to say and forgot, the design review committee is critical, precisely on the matters that you speak of, Councilman McMahon, and they will talk about connectivity. I know the developer was very receptive and met with some of the groups that were advocating for much more sensible connectivity of trails and cycling. He was not at risk for that at all. It's still a preliminary land development. The beauty of going through all these processes is that those very issues you've brought up are going to be pointed out, especially the county planning commission, as we all know. They're very good with it in terms of connectivity and trails, and they're very good at also the landscaping. They make sure they point that out. And of course, all that is going to be brought in front of the the North-South Planning Commission, and they'll be able to give their viewpoints on that. Council is more than welcome, of course, to be part of that discussion as they come, because it's like a rehearsal, if you will, before they come for your approval as a council. And you'd have an opportunity, too, at the Design Review Committee to also hear about the connectivity trails and those types of issues. where the developer will be then also be able to answer questions. But as I said, it's preliminary. It's not the final stage. So some of the conditions you want to add, I think I'm perfectly well in saying that, right? They can add conditions at that point during the preliminary and such before they come to the final.

Yes. I would just add that the hope is that the developer, particularly for that project, will be coming to council next month. The developer has made a request related to its land development submission related to escrow fees, and staff has advised him he needs to come to council to get that approval. And I think that would be a great time not only for the developer to provide some updates from the developers, but for council to ask questions such as the one you have, Mr. McMahon, that perhaps he might be able to get a better explanation as to, oh, here it is, here's what we're thinking in terms of either the connection to the public park space as well as bikes and the related other alternative modes of transportation other than vehicles.

Yeah, because I know that there's interest in sort of more formally, I'm drawing a blank on the name of the Cross County Trail, bike trail, but there's kind of like an informal connection that happens through some of the streets like down Elm or Buttonwood, like Stanbridge to Elm-Buttonwood, down Hawes, and then connect to the River Trail. So this might be like a really good opportunity to kind of formalize that, because I know that there's people reaching out to sort of like make a more formal biking structure for that bit of disconnected portion between what already exists across county and then the river trail. So this might be a chance for that.

And I know there were some proposed bike trails as part of the Elmwood Park master plan as well, which I believe did have a bike trail on that corridor going from up near Stambridge or up near the state hospital area all the way down to the SRT. I can't remember what trailhead that was, but it was in there too.

I'm going to save my other questions for email.

You can email on to me.

Any more questions or comments? Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you. All right. Okay. Seeing no further business, do I have a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

All in favor? Aye.