City Council - Regular Meeting

We're elected to city council at the exact same time in 2013 and served for six years together. So always a pleasure to see you here back at City Hall. All right.

If I can get this folder open. There we go.

A proclamation of the Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the month of September 2026 as Healthy Aging Month in the City of Norman. Whereas the City of Norman recognizes that older adults are valued members of our community whose experience, knowledge, and continued engagement strengthen the social, cultural, civic, and economic vitality of our city. And whereas September is recognized as Healthy Aging Month, And the 2026 theme, Curiosity Has No Age Limit, celebrates lifelong learning, creativity, purpose, and resilience while encouraging people of all ages to make healthy choices that support physical, mental, social, and emotional well-being. And whereas research demonstrates that lifelong learning, regular physical activity, preventive health care, social connection, and a strong sense of purpose contribute to healthier, more independent lives, and healthy aging month encourages residents to embrace new experiences and opportunities for growth at every stage of life. And whereas the City of Norman is proud to be a member of the AARP network of age-friendly states and communities and is supported by organizations, health care providers, educational institutions, volunteers, businesses, and community partners dedicated to promoting healthy aging, lifelong learning, and community engagement. And whereas the Adult Wellness and Education Center, operated by Healthy Living Norman, exemplifies this commitment by providing adults age 50 and older with diverse programs that promote the six dimensions of wellness, physical, emotional, intellectual, social, spiritual, and occupational, helping older adults remain active, connected, and engaged throughout their lives. Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim the month of September 2026 as Healthy Aging Month in the City of Norman, passed and approved this 8th day of September 2026.

Mayor Holman and city council members, staff members, as Stephen said, my name is Lynn Miller and I have the honor to be the chair of the board of Healthy Living Norman. We are the board that has the MOU with the city that oversees the activities takes the physical responsibilities for the activities of the Adult Wellness Center. Everyone that was involved, and many of you in this room were involved with the very, very long process, and there were so many people that were involved to make the Wellness Center a reality. and I can tell you unequivocally that it is an absolute amazing success. We have one big problem, and I know that's not what you wanted to hear. We are, people are coming out at the seams. We have so many people there. It's a wonderful problem to have. We have over 4,000 members, and because of our incredible staff, led by Catherine, so many activities, so many physical things that you can do, drum lines, Broadway shows, I mean, there is no end. And one of the things that the staff is just amazing about is they listen to the clients. They listen to the people that are coming every day. They do surveys. And when somebody comes up with a good idea, they are on it, and they try it out. And I think that's one of the reasons it's so successful. But at this time, I'm going to turn it over to Catherine, because like all good staff members, she's the one with the prepared notes.

Thanks, Lynn. Mayor Hellman, members of the City Council, city staff, and everyone here today. Again, I'm Catherine Leidy and I'm the Executive Director of Healthy Living Norman. I get to do that. And thank you, Lynn, for leading our board. It is a real honor for us to accept this proclamation recognizing September as Healthy Aging Month. And I especially love this This year's theme, curiosity, has no age limit. Because there's one thing we see every day at the Adult Wellness and Education Center and is that getting older does not mean becoming less curious. In fact, it can open the door to an entire new chapter of curiosity. Someone decides to try pickleball or line dance for the first time. Someone takes an art class for the first time in decades. Someone joins a theater production and discovers a new talent they didn't know they had. Someone learns a new skill, joins a book club, takes a fitness class, or simply walks through the doors looking for a place to belong. And those seemingly small decisions can have a very big impact. Over the past year, more than 4,000 people have been part of Healthy Living Norman, with more than 128,000 visits and thousands of opportunities for fitness, art, education, recreation, and social connection. But the numbers only tell part of the story. The real measure of healthy aging is what happens to people while they're at the center. It's movement, it's creativity, it's friendship, it's learning, it's purpose, and it is having a reason to get up in the morning and say, I wonder what I could try next. That's healthy aging. And I want to emphasize that Healthy Living Norman is just one piece of a bigger picture. Norman is fortunate to have dozens of community organizations, nonprofits, healthcare providers, businesses, churches, civic groups, volunteers, and city programs working every day to improve the quality of life for older adults. From parks and recreation to healthcare and nutrition, from transportation and social services to arts, education, volunteer opportunities, There are people throughout this community working to make sure older adults remain healthy, connected and independent and engaged. And that collaboration is what makes Norman such a special place to grow older. And it connects directly to the vision behind the Norman forward investment in the adult wellness and education center. And that's quality of life. The city created an extraordinary resource. And organizations like ours help bring that resource to life every day. Helping aging isn't just about adding years to our lives. It's about adding life to those years and making sure Norman continues to be a community where people can thrive at every age. So thank you, Mayor Holman, City Council, for recognizing the contributions of older adults and for recognizing the importance of healthy aging to the quality of life in our entire community. Thanks.

and as she mentioned the norman ford initiative which was approved by norman voters in two thousand fifteen uh... is what paid for adult wellness and education center what used to would have been known as a senior citizen center but now it is more than just sitting at a table playing cards or dominoes. It's really an interactive space. And the age is 50, so a lot of folks don't think of 50 as older, but really the median age in Norman, in the United States, is only 37 years old. So most people think we'll live to be 100, but really the average lifespan for men is around 75, and for women it's around 80. So 37, 40 is mid-life in reality. So... I know that's difficult to hear, but you've got to hear it from me. And so, very good reasons to take care of ourselves at a younger age. And as we get older. And it's really wonderful that the Adult Wellness and Education Center, the main problem with it is that it isn't big enough or that it's so popular that we already are needing to look at ways to expand it. So thank you again so much, Kathy and Mayor Miller. All right, Constitution Week. And I'll invite Lana Berhalter up here. And anybody else that would like to join, please come on up. If you'd like to join me over here, please. A proclamation of the Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma proclaiming the week of September 17th through September 23rd, 2026 as Constitution Week in the City of Norman. Whereas September 17th, 2026 marks the 239th anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional Convention, and whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to this magnificent document and its memorable anniversary, and to the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. And whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the President of the United States of America designating September 17th through 23rd, 2026 as Constitution Week. And whereas Black Beaver Chapter National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution is a nonprofit non-political volunteer women's service organization dedicated to promoting patriotism, preserving American history, and securing America's future through better education. Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim the week of September 17th through the 23rd 2026 as Constitution Week and asked our citizens to reaffirm those ideals that the framers of the United States Constitution had in 1787 by vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us through this guardian of our liberties, remembering that lost rights may never be regained. Pass and approve this ninth day of September 2026.

And please. Mayor and City Council members, in 2025 we recognize the 70th anniversary of Constitution Week. The Constitution of the United States is a binding document that has held our country together since it was conceived and designed in 1787 with ratification of the nine states June 21st 1788. Without it we would not be celebrating 250 years of these United States in 2026. NSDAR past President General Gertrude S. Carraway was responsible for annual designation of September 17th through the 23rd as Constitution Week. The DAR made its own resolution for Constitution Week which was adopted on April 21st, 1955. Members of the United States Congress received the DAR resolution and on June 7th, 1955, the resolution was discussed in the Senate. The first resolution to observe Constitution Week was made on June 14th, 1955 by Senator William F. Nolan of California. Following the passage of the resolution, by both houses of Congress, President Eisenhower issued his proclamation on August 19, 1955. The first observance of Constitution Week was so successful that on January 5, 1956, Senator Nolan introduced a Senate joint resolution to have the President designate September 17 through the 23rd annually as Constitution Week. The resolution was adopted on July 23, 1956 and signed into public law August 2, 1956. DAR daughters have been asked to publicly celebrate and promote the Constitution since the resolution to do so was signed into law by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1956. Therefore, thank you each and every one of you for issuing this proclamation and joining us in the celebration of the Constitution Week. Thank you.

They all have tomorrow's date on them. Also, we used to have pocket constitutions, I think, here in the lobby at City Hall. I might need to restock on that. But I think it's important that everybody know that document and keep that with you in your car, keep it in your office, in your house, whatever it may be. And make sure that not only that we know it, but understand what it means and how lucky we are to live in a nation that has something like that to guide our government and ourselves And so thank you so much again for being here to accept that and help be here every year actually that I've been on council for sure to make sure that Norman recognizes that every year. And up next we have Hispanic Heritage, Robert Ruiz, Superintendent of Puertas for Puertas Dual Language Community School. a proclamation of the mayor of the city of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming September 15th, 2026 through October 15th, 2026 as Hispanic Heritage Month in the city of Norman. Whereas Hispanic Heritage Week started in 1968 by President Lyndon Johnson and was expanded by President Ronald Reagan in 1988 to a 30-day observance from September 15th through October 15th providing greater opportunity to recognize and celebrate the history, independence, culture, and contributions of Hispanic and Latino Americans. And whereas September 15th marks the independence anniversaries of Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua, with Mexico and Chile celebrating their independence days on September 16th and September 18th, respectively. And whereas the 2026 Hispanic Heritage Month national theme, Unidos Somos Mas, Together We Are More, celebrates the unity, resilience, and collective impact of Hispanic and Latino communities, recognizing the shared values of perseverance, family, service, and creativity that unite diverse cultures and stories. And whereas Norman is home to residents with Hispanic and Latino heritage representing diverse backgrounds, traditions, and countries across Mexico, Spain, Central America, South America, and the Caribbean. And whereas Hispanic Heritage Month provides an opportunity to honor the history, accomplishments, and enduring influence of Hispanic and Latino communities while fostering greater understanding and appreciation of the diverse experiences that enrich us. now therefore i mayor of the city of norman oklahoma do hereby proclaim september 15th through october 15th as 20 2026 as hispanic heritage month in the city of norman and invite all residents to join in recognizing the celebration the heritage traditions and voices of hispanic and latino communities throughout norman passed and approved this eighth day of september 2026.

I'm going to wing this one, but it is very personal to me. But before I start, I do want to make a comment, because as an educator, I want to point out something about monarchs, actually. And monarchs, they connect Canada, US, and Mexico. In fact, they arrive in Mexico around the time of the Day of the Dead. It's very symbolic. And so I just wanted to make that reference not only so important scientifically and for nature, but also culturally have a big impact. So I just wanted to say that. I came to Norman as a National Hispanic Merit Scholar, was recruited to come to Norman. Very quickly, I learned about the sentiment of We recruit so many national scholarship, but they just leave. You know, we spend some money on their education just for them to go someplace else. And that really touched me as a student. I quickly fell in love with Norman as I was able to kind of reach out of the school bubble. I met my wife here. There's so many firsts that I've had here because we really wanted to see a Hispanic cultural center reestablished here. It led to our connection with the library, with the public library, and creating one of the first Hispanic festivals here, the Hispanic Heritage Festival back in 2002, I believe it was. My wife and I organized one of our first festivals here in Norman in 2001 for the Hispanic College Fund Football Classic, OU versus North Carolina. That was an amazing experience. I served on my first nonprofit board. here with the Mary Abbott Children's House, such an amazing organization. So many other firsts. And we also became co-founders of the Norman Music Festival. And that has grown into a love to become basically cultural ambassadors here in Oklahoma, to continue to broaden through education, work for the entire state of Oklahoma, and building on those experiences, established two large festivals, one of which we'll have this Sunday for the 16th year, which is Fiestas Patrias OKC. It's the Oklahoma City's kickoff for Hispanic Heritage Month. And all that would not be possible were not the community that it is. They're building an inclusive community means more than so much I think is lost in the word inclusive that's not stated explicitly, developing the opportunities, the investments. were it not for Norman's investments, Norman's trust, Norman's just desire to see people thrive of all sorts of backgrounds, we would not still be Norman Knights, and we would not have been able to build some of the things that we have here in Oklahoma. And it's just a constant way that we try to give back, especially for the investment that Oklahoma and especially Norman has made in me. And so that's why I'm really proud to stand up here as just one representative of a very large community here in Norman, knowing that being here in Norman has also impacted their lives in much in the same way. So I really just want to express my gratitude for the city of Norman, for being the community that it is, and for allowing many people to thrive and to grow and to build a life of their own here in Norman. So I just want to say thank you.

Yes, I've known Robert for a very long time in Willamari as well. And just thank you all so much for Norman Music Festival. Just that alone is something I could have only dreamed of happening in downtown Norman when I was a kid when it was mostly abandoned and there were no events happening. And now seeing it close down for a couple days and a couple tens of thousands of people in between and all sorts of fun is just a wonderful thing. And knowing that the type of community Norman is is a reason why you ended up here and why you've stayed here. So thank you again so much. Next up is suicide prevention. We have Connie Erickson and Erkstein here. Erkstein, Eckstein here to join me. I'm sorry. There's even a thing right here. This to you is a bracelet that says be kind.

And Bill Moss will be joining you.

This is my pocket, actually.

Okay, a proclamation of the Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming September 2026 as Suicide Prevention Month in the City of Norman, whereas the month of September is recognized as Suicide Prevention Month, with September 10th observed as World Suicide Prevention Day, highlighting the importance of hope, compassion, and meaningful connections in creating communities where everyone feels valued and supported, and whereas everyone has a role in suicide prevention by learning the warning signs starting starting caring conversations, reducing stigma, and connecting those in need with appropriate resources and support. And whereas running themes since 2024 has been changing the narrative on suicide, which focuses on moving away from a culture of silence and stigma toward an open, honest, and compassionate dialogue. And whereas the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline serves an important free, important, free, confidential resource for individuals and families by providing access to trained crisis counselors and support when it is needed most. Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim September 2026 as Suicide Prevention Month in the City of Norman and call upon all residents to learn about suicide prevention, recognize the importance of connection and support, reach out to those who may be struggling, and help create a community where everyone knows they are not alone and that help is available. Passed and approved this 8th day of September 2026.

Thank you, Mayor Holman, City Council. Specialist Damian Eckstein, a 2006 Norman High graduate, served in the United States Army during Operation Enduring Freedom in Iraq in 2008. When he returned, he told me he had been diagnosed with PTSD. We didn't know what that meant. The VA offered no assistance. On October 14, 2013, Damien succumbed to his mental illness. The first person I knew to complete a suicide was my son. We as a country and a state are failing. Data from the CDC for the year 2024 shows Oklahoma is seventh in the nation in deaths by suicide. Data provided by the Veterans Administration for 2023 show Oklahoma ranks third in the nation in veteran deaths by suicide. The National Suicide Prevention Awareness Month is in September every year. National Suicide Prevention Day is September 10th, every year. So why do the suicides continue? Suicide prevention isn't just posting the lifeline number, which is 988. Suicide prevention is healthcare, affordable and available. Suicide prevention is food security, affordable and available. Suicide prevention is housing, affordable and available. Suicide prevention is mental health care, affordable and available. Current legislative priorities don't address these needs. Suicide prevention is reaching out, each of us, asking, are you okay? Noticing changes and taking action. Suicide prevention is providing grief support to the suicide loss survivors. I'm considered a military loss survivor and I'm lucky to have found the tragedy assistance program for survivors. Taps saves lives by providing grief services available to anyone who suffers a military loss. I would give the world to have Damien back, but his loss provided me with the passion to provide the information, tools, and support to others to try to reduce the suicide rate. I want to thank the Norman Human Rights Commission for asking me to accept the proclamation. I accept it in the name of those lost to suicide and the people who loved them. There is a lot of work to do, and I hope the Norman City Council will take action over words, action over division, action over politics to help its citizens. Be kind. Thank you very much.

All right, thank you again for being here to accept that. Her son, I would have graduated Norman High in 2004, so I would have been there when her son was there, and he's slightly younger than I am, so it can really be an issue for anybody in our lives, and like she said, there's more than just the 988 number, which is really helpful. There's a lot more action that could be taken. locally, statewide, nationally to better address that issue. Also, we were notified that item 29 has been withdrawn by the applicant. That is the landmark item. The applicant has decided to withdraw the proposal entirely. So everybody you're all welcome to hang out for the remainder of the meeting if you'd like and But we will not be considering that item tonight and not for the foreseeable future Thank you all for being here All right, council announcements. We'll start in Ward 1. I guess I could have waited until after that.

It's all right, sir. One of my things that I did want to do is thank everybody with the situation with the billboard. Thank you for your emails. Thank you for your contacts that you had with me. Thank you for letting me get to know you. I also, like gentlemen said, you know, with everybody being kind of together and here together on this, I love always seeing a new group of faces come in here to kind of fight for what they believe in instead of the same people every time, just kind of saying the same things. So it's been a pleasure to get to know each and every one of you that's been involved in this situation. So thank you all very much for that.

Thank you.

I'd also like to shout out Ward 1. It looks like we're going to be having a... New convenience store located on Lindsay and Biloxi. Looks like it's going to be a deli slash fried chicken type of establishment for us. I want to also say thanks to Sheriff Weaver. He gave me a couple hours the other day for a one-on-one discussion where we was able to discuss mental health and moving forward how maybe the county and city can work together rather than apart. Next Tuesday's study session, just so everybody doesn't get mad at me when they don't see me there, I'll be in Tulsa at a graduation for the OML Leadership Program that I've been going through for the past year. And then I was also going to shout out that today is national nine a eight day for mental health. It is also suicide awareness week and kind of like I wasn't expecting her message, but kind of like she stated, you know, that's A lot of my close friends and everything understand the importance to me. And also, nobody has, I don't like to shout out things I personally go do, but on September 27th at Ruby Park from 3.30 to 5.30, There's going to be a walk called Norman Out of the Darkness Walk. It's a suicide prevention walk. I do it every year. If you go on their website, I do have a team that I'm formulating also for us to kind of do it together and be there and remember it's together and things like that. It is a very, very well-run group. It's very meaningful. Kind of walk around the park there and stuff like that, organized by great organization. You also can get on the website, register your own team or your own individual if you feel that as well. Just want to make sure that everybody knows that that is something I'm proud to partake in, especially in Norman. Once again, one of those great things about our town that makes it inclusive for everybody no matter what. So thank you.

Thank you. Award two.

Award one kind of stole my thunder, but also thanks to my constituents for being so vocal and passionate about an issue affecting them and for communicating it so openly with me. This Friday is the second Friday art walk and thanks to councilmember Steele setting the precedent I will be there this week with the League of Women Voters in their booth So if anybody wants to come chat, I will be out there Friday night during art walk Thank You Ward 3

It's a residents of Norman and more to have heard your concerns on e-bikes and appreciate the e-mails and discussions. I know the city staff is working the issue legal has reviewed some things same thing with the police department and now I believe it's in the bike committee for some type of recommendations back to those staff members and and eventually back to Council. I share those concerns regard to safety e-bikes. I think I'd like to thank all the calls and the discussions on the Turnpike exits. Appreciate that and the continued flow of information on that. Same thing with de-annexation of Ward 5 as it relates to the majority. What is the majority? How do we know what the majority is as far as de-annexation? I think it's a topic that should remain in discussion at least, regarding, okay, what does the majority really want? That's all I have.

Thank you. Ward 4.

Yes. Good evening, Ward 4 and City of Norman. Oversight meeting will be this Thursday, September 10th at 5 PM. This month's agenda includes our quarterly homeless and service update. Data on who is moving through our shelter system is presented at this meeting. You can also find it on our unhoused and shelter info web page. Monthly updates get posted there. Updates on how many people are moving into housing and what current challenges are slowing people down in their journey to housing. And then we'll get a social services update. We have a program that is paid for with opiate abatement funds. And our social services manager, Amanda Sheriff, will talk about some encampment research that she has done, an update about their program, which also includes the work of the community outreach mental health social worker Kara Fritz, and part of their programming is how many people they've helped access treatment as a part of that opioid funding, and how many people they've helped with mental health crisis, et cetera. Then we'll talk about noise ordinance updates. We've been kicking the can down the road on the fees, which haven't been raised in over a couple decades, and enforcement updates. And then I would just like to acknowledge Barbara Henderson's passing on September 3rd. Her family chose to move to Norman in 1967, which is when Norman stopped being a sundown town, which wasn't exactly put in an ordinance, but it was a pattern of behavior of the broader community. And Dr. Henderson and his family choosing to move here is what ended that. SHE ALSO BECAME THE FIRST NORMAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSIONER CHAIR IN THE EARLY 70s AND THE FIRST TO RECEIVE THE NORMAN HUMAN RIGHTS AWARD IN 1985. I THINK OUR HRC COMMITTEE IS WORKING ON A WAY TO HONOR HER, BUT I AM ALSO OPEN TO A PROCLAMATION OR PERHAPS A STATUE ON LEGACY TRAIL DEDICATED TO HER MEMORY BECAUSE THEY DEFINITELY OPENED DOORS FOR MINORITIES IN NORMAN. THANK YOU.

Thank you. Ward 6.

Hi. It's just a couple quick announcements here. The first, I'd like to highlight item 7 on the consent agenda. It's a first reading that's clarifying assigned regulations, which includes billboards. Billboards have been talked about quite a bit recently the past couple weeks. So my ask is that a lot of people had a comment on one specific billboard, but I would ask especially those in Ward 6 to reach out to what you feel about just billboards in general throughout Norman. That way you can get some input on that. And then my second announcement is that I will be at, once again, Beanstalk Coffee on the east side this Saturday, September 12th from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. to talk about any local issues that people want to talk about. And our address is 867 12th Avenue Northeast. Thank you.

Thank you. Ward 7. This wasn't when I was supposed to do it.

Okay, okay, okay. No announcements at this time.

okay thank you Ward 8 thank you the Brookhaven 5k run was this weekend which surprisingly starts nowadays it starts in Ward 8 the whole thing is completed in Ward 8 start and finish lines in Ward 8 so I think when you talk to them about movement changing the name because Brookhaven is not in Ward 8 Sorry, Bob. My son ran in it with the Norman North cross-country team, ran into Nathan Maddenwald with the City of Norman on the way there, too. He was running in it and my son smoked him. Sorry, Nathan. then I just got this a little bit ago great news for the city of Norman we were in court today being sued there were five counts were being sued for claims two four and five The city had filed motions to dismiss, and we were granted those motions to dismiss. So we won counts two, four, and five. And on claims one and two, the court granted summary judgment for the defendants. So the city of Norman defended all five claims against it today in district court. So that's great for the city of Norman on defending ourselves.

and that is it for word eight thank you thank you and i just have a couple things mainly um just seconding mention of art walk this friday in downtown norman uh multiple events and things going on and council members there with uh with booths i'll probably be there as well so i hope to see you all there and make sure you support local businesses while you're out and about then also in regard to storm cleanup so the 9th will mark two months since the cleanup began and city staff just posted a video the other day on the city website and social media page with drone footage of the actual dump sites there's two different ones and as of today a little over a hundred thousand cubic yards have been picked up which is almost 50 regulation football fields filled one foot deep and is about 4 000 truckloads so mine was picked up last wednesday on my my house in my whole street the biggest tree on my street fell over in the storm and for two days was blocking the entire street luckily there's two ways uh in and out but um and then it was moved over to the side of the street in the in two different people's yards and that was also picked up as well so not even the mayor got any special early treatment with pickup or anything like that so it's coming if it hasn't gotten to you it will and like i said i use the football field reference because i think that's what's most familiar to us but Imagine OU football field, you know, you could say stacked up about 50 feet high if it was one field or so like that. So just imagine that. But anyway, those crews are working seven days a week still, 10 hours a day, doing it as fast as they can. Please be patient and please let any of us know if your council member representative if they've come by and you feel like they didn't get it or they missed you just let us know and We'll definitely be making sure that everybody gets picked up So and then also just wanted to thank all the the workers and staff and everybody that is doing all that work as well To get that done especially when it's I feel like it's been 100 degrees every single day in August and so far every single day in September so and then also along with the committee meetings just a further reminder to everybody our council committee meetings are every Thursday and the first one the business community affairs first Thursday of the month is at 4 p.m. and then the other three are all at 5 p.m. which are the oversight committee where we get an update on homeless shelter and existing policies like noise ordinance and things like that and and then finance committee where we get a monthly update from our finance staff about sales tax collections, where we're at in the budget as far as overtime for city staff, how we're comparing to other cities when it comes to sales tax, all those types of things. Then the fourth meeting of the month the Community Planning and Transportation Committee meeting where we get a monthly update on public transit ridership Street construction projects all of that type of stuff So if any of that is of interest to you, those meetings are live streamed on the city of Norman YouTube channel You can also rewatch the replay anytime or you can attend them in person we don't typically take public comment, but you're welcome to attend and and Let us know in advance if you have any questions or things that you would like us to bring up. So with that, we will move on to the consent docket. This item is placed on the agenda so that the city council, by unanimous consent, can designate those routine agenda items that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion. If any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order. Staff recommends that items six through 28 be placed on the consent docket. I'll entertain a motion to place items six through 28 on the consent docket.

Motion.

Second. Are there any questions or comments from council regarding the consent docket?

Council Member Blodgett.

Council Member Blodgett for a comment.

And yes, I would like to move to postpone the first reading of the sage cobblestone item that is on the consent docket.

It's item number eight.

Thank you. Item number eight.

And from what I understand, you're not available for the next meeting, and the applicant is not available for the meeting after that.

Right, yes. So if we had first reading tonight for item number eight, then the second reading would be on... September 24th, I believe, or 22nd, and I am not able to be here that night. I have parent-teacher conferences because I'm a teacher, so I have parent-teacher conferences that night, so I can't miss that. And then, I'm sorry. Do you have a date?

Postpone the deadline.

Oh, postpone first reading until November 10th. And I wanted to explain why it is November 10th, because I know I spoke with y'all earlier. We got in contact with the applicant on the date that I had originally told y'all, and he is not available then. And so that pushed it out further. And so if we postpone first reading to November 10, then the second reading would be November 24th.

Do you want to record that, Mr. Crodell? Just to confirm, can it be on the record?

I will recognize Mr. Crodell for a comment, the applicant, on the postponement motion.

Thank you for letting me speak. We obviously oppose the postponement. We want to create some certainty for ourselves and for the residents. It is unfortunate that you know, the following meetings so far out are either I or my client are unavailable and it's essential that both of us are here for our application. Um, so we, you know, we understand that council member Blodgett isn't has a conflict, but we would just ask that, um, you guys keep it on the same schedule and that we can move forward on the 22nd with our second reading. Um, We, you know, we recognize that you guys have respect for your other council members, but we'd hope that, you know, our further delay impacting us is considered as well. So thank you.

Thank you. Is there any comment on the motion to postpone that anybody would like to make? From the public. If any of you would like to make a comment about the postponement or not.

If you'd please, if you'd please approach the podium. And we have a lot of people here to talk about this today, and I didn't know if we can, if you do postpone, can we talk in the miscellaneous or what? Okay, well then I will, till then.

Is that okay? Yes. Anyone else want to talk?

Okay.

Okay, we have a motion and a second on the floor to postpone item eight until November 18th. Was there any council, Council Member Bruce?

Question for the applicant. Yes, sir. So you mentioned impacts, but you didn't get into the impacts. I'm thinking, okay, in my mind, I think I know some of them, but not all of them. Can you elaborate?

Yeah. if you looked at our Planning Commission presentation we discussed a lot about the financial impacts that you know our restriction that we admittedly impose on ourselves of having a 55 and up community we run into is a preview for our second reading presentation but we've taps the market for eligible tenants. We have had very flat occupancy growth. There's been hardly any growth and it's about 50%. And that is just an unsustainable level. And so continuing, you know, without certainty as to whether or not we will be able to remove that restriction is expensive for and, you know, partly our fault that it has to go out so long. But, you know, this has been set for a few weeks now. But it's it's expensive to continue at this current situation for another two and a half months.

Just a follow-up question. Can you help me understand? I'm of the belief, I don't know this for a fact, that there's a federal housing rule associated with 80-20, given the situation that's a 55 and over, that 20% of your residents can be under the age of 55. Is that correct? That is correct.

It's difficult to be one foot in, one foot out, though. So a lot of It is hard to attract non-55 and up residents when it is marketed and branded in primarily a exclusive 55 and up community.

I understand, but if I came to you today, let's say I was 30. I don't have the... Hey, let's have a look. I want to rent. Yeah. There's nothing preventing you that unless you've hit that maximum of...

All things, you know, with only those two pieces of information, then yes, yes, you could. That doesn't happen, though, when our branding has been trying to attract the 55 and up community a quick, you know, internet search and look on the website and look on our sign outside the apartment complex, it says or it said that sign might have changed for this reason that, you know, that would deter a 30-year-old.

And it has, yeah. I'm sure you can't discriminate against me. Sure. Sure.

If those two things being the only factors, yes.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Thank you. Any other questions, comments from council? Councilor Blodgett.

Yeah, I just want to say the sign didn't maybe change. The sign got changed. So, yeah, the other day. So I just wanted to make that clear that before this was brought to council, the sign was changed and 55 plus was taken off the sign.

Okay, any other comment? Councilor Dixon.

Here I go again. It still takes five votes, sometimes six, to pass things. The Northern Public Schools, their 27-28 calendar is out, and it has parent-teacher school nights, or parent-teacher back-to-school nights on the calendar for 27 and 28. um it's typically up to the applicant that when they want to be heard like when they their schedule works out for the council so i'm not in favor of postponing this if it fails it fails if it passes it passes but at some point i just really feel like we need to like we postpone so much stuff and again it's historically been the applicant sets the date like they contact the city and say we've got this idea we want to do this here's what we want to change is what we want to ask for is what we want to do uh we can do you know this and so it's it just seems expensive um to keep having the applicants like come up here and then go home you know sit here uh for an hour when all we've had is council comments and proclamations and consent that somebody's paying this gentleman to be here. So that's why I'm not in favor of postponing it.

Thank you. Any other same comment? We already moved on to council questions and comments. Council Member Kirby.

Has it struggled from the get-go? I'm just kind of curious, because I used to work in real estate, and one of our most successful was the senior housing. I mean, we had waiting lists at all times, and if I'm correct, there's about nine different units around Norman, so I just didn't know what's making yours unique.

I think it's a, and you'll hear more about this when we have our second rating, I think The fact that there are other options is a factor. This is a large facility. I think there's 168 units. That is a factor. I do, we have been about, to your first question, we've been at about 50% occupancy the whole time. And that's been since 2023, I want to say, but don't hold me to that quite yet. I can't remember exactly. The past three to four years, it's been at about 50%. It has grown from when they opened, but I think they are at 56 or 7% right now, and that's the highest they've ever been.

Yes, I just wanted to say since it was brought up I don't work for Norman public schools and my school actually Just now came up with the date for the conferences this month because of conflicts I was late to the five o'clock meeting today because I was in a meeting at work where we were discussing that they don't even know what time our conferences will be yet and and they're next week because of conflicts. So usually they're 4.30 to 7.30, but they're not sure about that yet, even though I've already sent out notices to my parents to sign up, but that's another story. So I just wanted to say, I'm not just purposely trying to hold this up. I want this to, I'm ready to vote on it, and I want it voted on. But I do appreciate the SAGE residents being so patient with me. I hate that this keeps getting, um, prolonged. Um, I hate that for you and I hate that for the applicant. Um, so I just wanted to say that. Thank you.

And I, if I could say one, I, I'm not trying to be difficult and I understand that your schedules have conflicts, but, um, you know, the alternative is a significant delay and to council member Dixon's point, um, It is the applicant that generally controls when their items are heard. And so I just hope that you guys take into consideration our needs and our situation.

Is the applicant here?

No. They are in Houston, and so this became an issue this afternoon, so they weren't able to be here.

So they wouldn't generally be here anyway. Okay. Okay.

Council members? November is when it would be for second reading. November.

The motion is for postponing first reading to November 10th, which would take second reading to November 10th.

They're not available in October. The applicant is not available in October. So that would put it for a second reading in a vote of approval or not. Thanksgiving week. On the Tuesday, last, yeah, yeah, the final meeting in November. Council Member Dixon.

Why don't we do the second reading on that November 10th and just do the first reading tonight so that he doesn't have to be here three times. The does that help you at all?

November 10th for second reading. Is that what you're saying? It would have to be November 24th for second reading. Um, but that is a possibility if I, you know, I, not the municipal law expert, but is that a possibility that the first reading could be tonight and then it just be delayed by some kind of agreement to another date certain?

I mean, the first reading is just a notice to the public that we're going to have the second reading to actually vote on it.

I have the city attorney or clerk, one of the two.

that there be at least a week between first and second reading. Our typical practice, as you all know, is to put second reading, put an item on for second reading at the following meeting. We could do that, but put it on the consent agenda with a motion to postpone to a date agreed upon, so that's a seamless record that both the public and the applicant can follow.

I have a question about that, if you don't mind. I know by right, the applicant has one opportunity to postpone. Would that... Burn that one postponement if something were to happen.

That would be on us.

Okay.

Yeah.

To me, this is, I'm not saying we would delay it even further, but just to have that option.

So just to clarify that we could do first reading tonight and then postpone the second reading to date certain.

Yeah. And we'll put that on your consent agenda. So, uh, that'll be published with the agenda. Everyone will know that that's, that that's the motion to be considered to postpone it to a date that we've agreed upon date certain.

I'd ask Council Member Blodgett to weigh in on that.

I would like to ask my SAGE people, would you like to have first reading tonight and then second reading November 10th?

It's November 24th. Or November 24th, I'm sorry. I thought you were going to, I like the November 10th.

They're not available on that day.

Not available on that day?

would be over with tonight, November 24th.

Mr. Mayor, yes.

So, okay. Be quiet, sir.

So we would need to withdraw the motion to postpone first reading. But based on the discussion here tonight, we would place it on the agenda for second reading at the next meeting as our normal practice, but tee it up for a motion to postpone at that time.

But I won't be here. It's up to Council Member Blodgett.

It'll be on consent with the motion postponed, so that'll be it.

So, Council Member Blodgett, do you want to proceed with this postponement or do you want to go ahead and do first reading tonight and then when we place it on for a second reading at the next meeting, we'll put the notation on there that it will be postponed until November 24th?

Yes, I would like to move forward with that, thank you.

And the second.

So you're withdrawing your motion?

Yes, I am withdrawing my motion.

And Council Member Grant, you okay with that?

Okay. Okay.

So we're gonna move forward with as we were.

so it remains correct all right all right the motion on the floor is to place items 6 through 28 on the consent docket council members you may cast your votes all votes have been cast in the motion to place item 6 through 28 on the consent docket passes unanimously Thank you. The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket as amended. Council members, you may cast your vote. It's not amended, sorry.

So approve the consent docket.

Approve the consent docket as is.

All right.

All those have been cast and the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously. Okay.

And like I said earlier, item 29 was withdrawn by the applicant. So move on to miscellaneous comments. This is an opportunity for citizens to address city council due to open meetings act regulations. Council is not able to participate in the discussion during miscellaneous comments. Remarks should be directed to the council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less.

Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Sorry. Steven Ellis. No. Don Jordan. Ellen Beaver. Okay. Marguerite Larson. Pamela Wallace.

lori mouse so i don't do fat here my name's lori mouse from sage cobblestone and uh... i'm here just to talk about the issue we've been discussing I'm not saying, I want you to hear, I'm not saying no, I'm just saying not yet. He referenced the commissioners, the commissioners meeting. They provided over, a PowerPoint and they shared with us of why they're in this. I'm asking that you would hold them accountable to put their plan in place, what they think will solve it. A $200,000 deficit, and he mentioned 50% occupancy. We've been doing audits. I'm a retired CPA and a CFO, and we've been auditing those numbers. They're different. And their marketing strategies are better. And they're not at 56%. They're higher. And that's because they're doing marketing promotions. And here's the thing. The population's there. You can look at statistics online, and you will see the baby boomers, there's a demand there, supply and demand. So you are our only leverage that we have to hold them accountable with their communication and giving us enough information to help us as residents and you as council members to make the best decision. And what I know is the commissioner said be sure and improve your communication with your residents. We have not received that formally. We're taking the initiative. And so what it could do is tell us. You send us a lease concessions, but then there's an asterisk that says, but if your rents change, then it's due to your utilities. So right now they pay for our cable, our trash. And we came in based upon that. I moved from Tulsa, Oklahoma after becoming a widow, relocated down here, and found a 55 plus. We've built a community. And so what we need is just for you guys to question and ask these things. Show me in writing what your occupancy rate is. They're saying 50-something. I'm saying after many hours of work, it's a little bit higher than that. It's in the 60s, and it might be close to the 70s. But it's all verbal. So I just encourage you to do that. And I want to be sure that... Everybody knows you're our leverage. We thought we had that at the Planning Commission, but it was pretty much a done deal. And so we're trying to do our best to inform. And there's many others here. This is a good group. We've been working hard, and we want to be objective. We're not discriminating against the young'uns. But when you have a 91-year-old lady and then you're bringing it, I've already seen changes. Like you mentioned about 35-year-old, we have that. Are they going to change my, 200,000 doesn't get taken care of with $130,000 increase in their occupancy. There's still a deficit there. So are they going to take away the utilities? Are they going to take away the golf thing where $35,000 for us to play golf? I play golf every week. So there's just a lot of variables, and I encourage you to ask them to put it in writing before you do your vote. Thank you.

I would just ask everybody to please hold your applause. There may be folks that say something you don't like and so just to have the same, same for everybody.

Luann Alexander. LD Morris. LD Lewis Morris.

Good evening. My name is LD Lois Florence. I go by Lois and I live at 4403 12th Avenue Southeast, Sage Cobblestone Apartments, 5110. Lori and I, we have, we've done a lot of work. It's like, do we have 167 apartments or do we have 168? We are at 60 some odd percent occupancy right now. And there are new residents moving in nearly daily. We have been able to let 35 year olds and up, 35 to 55 move in, and we've known about this for months. And I don't know that any advertising had gone out for that group of people. We do have some people that are a little bit younger, and I don't ask everybody their age. The thing is, we moved there thinking this was a 55-plus community. It was advertised to me that way. But it was difficult for me to even find that apartment complex after a niece who lived in Noble told me, hey, Aunt Lois, you need to come to Norman because they're building a resort style and that may be the difference between our complex and the others. It's a resort style 55 plus community. And I hunted and I looked and I looked and I hunted and it's like it took a lot of effort to find anything out there available. It's like they had not advertised properly. And now all of a sudden Since Ripito came and talked to us, we are having social events out the wazoo. Anybody wants to come? Come on. I mean, they have changed in the, what, month and a half, two months? That's all I have to say. Be careful. And the other thing, everybody's probably tired of me saying this, 167 or 168 apartments There are 202 parking spaces. That includes the garages that cost $100 a month or the carports that cost us $30 a month. That includes all of that, public parking, everything else. For the people who live in the neighborhood, And they were concerned about parking all those years ago when this thing was going to be built. I don't know how they think that they could have a lot of couples move in there who are likely to have two cars where they're going to park those vehicles. I really don't. And what I've said in my letters to everybody up there, it is It's hard to undo something when you've already done it. And I just don't know that there's gonna be space if they fill that place up, if everybody has a car. And if they have two cars, there's no way it's gonna work. And that's all I have to say.

Thank you. Cynthia Muse? I'm sorry, it says 4403 12th Avenue. Okay, I'm sorry. Couldn't really read it. Tim Johnson?

Is that?

Nicholson? No, I can read yours. Sorry, it's hard to read these. Cynthia Dart? Gary, Gary, I'm sorry. Sorry. This next one, I can only read the last name. It's Holmes. Did you say Bonnie? Okay.

I'm Bonnie Holmes, 4403 12th Avenue SE, apartment 6203. Thank you so much for listening to us. I moved to Oklahoma from Texas because housing was cheaper in Oklahoma than it was in Texas and I'm a retired truck driver and I sold my house years ago and at this point in my life I don't want a house and apartments are very pricey in the Dallas Fort Worth area so we moved to Oklahoma and I found out once we got in there and signed our lease Right next door in Noble, I could have gotten something like $200 cheaper with the garage as part, like duplexes, you know, right there in Noble for $200 less. It's $150 a month for that garage because we pay for it. And I'm glad that we do because if this change happens, like Lois said, there is not going to be enough parking space. that lot and most of the parking they made covered parking so you have to pay for the covered parking there's not very much open parking at all and so I'm glad that we're paying extra for the garage because if this change happens we are going to need to have our garage problem is the garage is on the other side of the complex but that's all right we walk down the some steps in I don't mind having grandchildren coming to visit the complex but they don't live there there are forty two bedroom apartments they can have two children in a bedroom two heartbeats per bedroom is what we were told and i worry about if People move in with their children because it's easier for them. They don't have to take the kids to grandma's because they just live there, you know? And they could just send them down the hall to grandma's and then go to work. And I have one grown son. I have no grandchildren. I don't care for children running around. we have a very nice complex if you came to visit we have a media room we have a craft room we have a library with a business center we have uh... just a beautiful place and i worry about children coming in and if they're visiting they have to be attended by somebody who lives there at all times but if they live there well that's different they can just because they live there I worry about children getting into things and messing up our nice place. I guess that's all I have to say. I'm worried about that. I have bad knees and a lot of us have trouble with mobility and have kids surrounded around because they live there, not just over the summer and during school breaks and stuff like that. you know, that could be a problem for all of us. and and i wish i just hope that you would consider that and like they said there are 60 some percent people living there now somebody just moved in over my head last week you know they're moving in and so it's not so much of a problem like they're painting it to be at this point it is getting better people are moving in and so that's it thank you thank you andrew holmes

Andrew?

No, he stepped out.

Okay. Karen Nicholson.

I'm not a good public speaker, okay?

Me neither.

My name is Karen Nicholson. I reside at Sage Cobblestone. I moved in in May. Had no idea we was talking about even thinking about a change. It's kind of like Mr. Kirby said over there earlier. Norman doesn't have, we don't have facilities in Norman. Actually, we only have about 471 units that's designated traditional 55 plus. As you all age, you'll understand that more. We have residents there with disabilities. We have residents there with special needs. You bring in a different generation into our facility. Those residents are uncomfortable. It's not that we have any ill feelings about younger adults because we don't. This facility is not designed for children. I happen to love children, but I don't think our facility is designed for them. When I chose to live at Sage Cobblestone, I did so because it represented a community designed for 55 plus and older. That was an important factor, not just to me, to all of our residents. Many of our residents are retirees. Some have mobility challenges, disabilities, age-related limitations. As she told you earlier, we have residents in their 90s. We rely on this atmosphere, the sense of our community among our neighbors in similar stages of life, and the accessibility that a senior community provides for us and will later on provide for you. Changing in this property to an all-age apartment community would fundamentally change the strength and the character of our place that we call home. Residents enter into these leases with reasonable expectations that they would be living in a 55 plus community. While I understand the owner has raised economic concerns These concerns should be weighed against the impact on many who rely on this property and this community for the purpose when we decided to live there. Senior housing is important resource in Norman. We don't have this source in Norman. And you're going to find that out as you age. As our population ages, we need the housing designed for older adults. As the needs for housing designed for older adults' communities grow, not shrink. Decisions you make in your housing for the future and generation of Norman

Thank you. The time limit is up, I'm sorry. Thank you, the time limit is up. Yes, but thank you so much for coming and we'll have a, yes, thank you. Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Charles, I can't read the last name. Has the same address, so it must be Sage. Kay Bishop. Ann Davis. Gloria Farris. mitch barris kathy makula okay please approach if you'd like to

I'm Gloria Burris, I live at Sage Cobblestone, which is 4403 12th Avenue Southeast. And I've lived there for three and a half years and truly love it. We moved there because it was 55 plus and the facilities are geared for that. There is no playground, there is no open space for children. That could be a problem. Parents may not see that when they lease the place, but it would become soon apparent. And the city might have regulations that they need to look into about facilities for children in living quarters. I just wanted to mention that. I love children. I'm not moving even if children live there. But I just want them to be happy too. And there isn't really good facilities.

Thank you.

Laura Beachholder? Beach Hollow? Emily? Sorry, I just cannot read this stuff. Keith Wells? Jill Wells? Sherrilyn Denso? Chelsea Gravel? Carlinda Gravel?

A lot of you have very fine cursive that this is getting harder and harder. We don't see cursive very much.

I grew up around cursive. I'm not that young.

Carlinda Gravel, Ward 4. Ms. Grants, my council member. First, city manager, we have an issue. We have some of that alligator cracking that we talked about on Blue Jay. We've got that on Ponca in front of my neighbor's house and in front of my house between Acres and Hubert. We've become Porter Street number two. We are the Longfellow traffic and all of the Porter thoroughfare. We have a lot of Embark trucks and a lot of commercial vehicles that use our street as a porter number two thoroughfare And if you want to look at the cars coming through there we had a 2010 Porter Avenue corridor study to study our traffic you guys need to look that up about what happened over on Porter It's a very big deal I want to talk about the annexation and de-annexation. I'd like for us to continue that conversation. What I want to talk to you about today is that if I were to be in a court of law, what I'm about to tell you today, I would be an eyewitness, and I would be a legitimate eyewitness. I swear to tell you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God. Your records indicate it, and my records indicate it. In the 1990s, at 2,900... 156th Avenue Northeast. There's a property there. You need to look it up. 240 feet in the front, half a mile long. It's 15 acres. Okay. Surrounded by native land. There's four strips of native land. 240 feet wide, half a mile deep. The Little Charlies are in the two strips to the south and Sabrina Little Axe owns the 15 acres to the north. 240 feet in the cross in the front, half a mile deep. Okay. had to have a, this property had to have a specialist come in in the 90s to determine what size tin horn needed to be put in the driveway. Quarter mile driveway up the hill. Downhill off the Peaveley, 156, straight up the hill. Quarter mile up, asphalt millings. 48 inch tin horn. Native land to the north, native land in the south, and that 48 inch tin horn that had to take that water flow had refrigerators. dishwashers, car parts on the native land upstream and downstream from my 48-inch 10 horn that took all of our drinking water into Lake Thunderbird. And they were putting a gun range when I moved to town to the north of me. 240 feet wide, half a mile deep, five houses as all could sit if I were at the street. But I was a quarter mile up the road. So noise ordinance, I got my boots on and my robe on at 2 o'clock in the morning. Went and told my neighbor to turn that base off because I had babies because normally don't come out there. I had snakes, copperheads, pygmy rattlers, tarantulas. I had to take a gun to a man that was crossing my property to get his native land because he had charges against him. And he was a family member that had been a police officer or something. Okay. Animal control don't come. If they come, they make you have a city permit for every animal you own. I've had puppies dumped. Puppies. I had to bring them in. We had to bring them in. Animal control said, if you don't bring them in, we're going to fine you for every animal you own. They don't come. Okay. Worst thing that happened?

The worst thing that happened was a greyhound with a muzzle.

I have babies, little girls. We tried the best prime stake we had to get that greyhound to come, and it wouldn't come. It had a muzzle on. Then I read up why they put muzzles on them. Okay? This is the kind of...

Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else that has not spoken that would like to speak? Mr. Johnson.

all right rodney johnson ward too uh... thank you very much uh... i want to speak about uh... few things that i've heard at some of the meetings that watched on youtube uh... first of all the de-annexation and the financial situation of the city our city while not broke isn't in the best financial situation because if if we were we would be able to give our employees a raise this year which we couldn't so i want people to realize especially the people on you too There are problems with just being financed by city sales tax and we need to grow that city sales tax as much as possible so we can afford to give our employees a raise. And so when people say about the de-annexation that our city is in great financial shape, it is not. And what I'm trying to say too is that in one of the meetings, I heard that there were like 400,000 people, extra people that came last year to downtown in Ward 4. And somebody said, well, how did that happen? I'll tell you how that happened. That's the only place we put any money. We don't put any money anywhere else. We talked about the Norman Music Festival downtown, the Arch Walk downtown. And I'm glad we put money downtown. And I'm happy about the growth that we had downtown. But what are we doing for the rest of the city? And the people that represent downtown, they don't vote for things that are going to help growth, like the Sooner Mall tax rebate. Mr. Mayor, this week, I believe it was this week, you were at Sooner Mall to celebrate their 50th anniversary. And I think it's And you talked about all of the local businesses that are in Sooner Mall. And yes, there's a lot of local businesses in Sooner Mall. And I've walked downtown, and I can tell you there's more local businesses in Sooner Mall than there are downtown. A lot of those businesses aren't owned by people that live here in Norman. And the Downtowner Association, who opposed the Sooner sales tax rebate, Well, I had talked to the lady that runs the arts council. And one of the things I said to her was, well, why doesn't the downtown association take over the art walk? And she said, well, it's because of slippage. We don't want slippage. Well, the downtown association opposes things to bring in extra sales tax, but they want us to pay for everything that they have going on downtown. And they can't even operate a one day fall festival that they had to give up. So what are we doing? We have to grow our sales tax base so we're on a better financial situation. And Representative Deck, or I'm sorry, Councilwoman Deck. Well, I would want my city council member to vote for those type of things that help Ward 2, where I live, and all of the city. Now... Six seconds left, so I'm going to say. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Thank you.

All right the final Council comments from anybody. Council members.

Comments related to the cobblestone and yeah, absolutely right that the devil's in the details on anything that we do here in City Council and looking over whether it's a zoning or you know, whatever matters. It's the devil's in the details. So I'm really hoping that the next two months that there's a lot of marketing going on. Maybe the residents itself doing marketing. But it's a sad situation when you can't break even. So they may need help. I can only imagine that whoever the business owner is, he's looking at the break-even and what can I do? He's got a contractual agreement with the residents. He's going to fill that contractual agreement or give consideration. I get that.

I'm sorry, we can't have a conversation back and forth.

So maybe, who knows, the next two months, the residency may shoot up by 10% or 15% or 20%, and it might be the break-even point he needs, or she needs, whoever owns the place. That's all I have.

Thank you, Council Member Grant. We'll just go.

Council Member Grant.

Just a point of clarity for a fall fest is downtowners will be running it again this year and I believe it will be in October so whenever that information is finalized I will be saying that it will be back in downtown.

Thank you. Councilmember Kirby.

I just want to address the de-annexation. I believe that if the civilian or the residents of Ward 5 want to be de-annexed, that's why we have a process of petition. And it shouldn't be for a council member who's not even over that ward to dictate whether that we de-annex the residents of about 3,000 people, as well as the tribe. If people wanted to be de-annexed, they would file a petition like they did in the 70s, and they failed on that one. So I would encourage you to try it again. There's also a website going around for people who would like to sign up and have that conversation. If you would like to talk about that, you can email me or reach out, and I will give you access to the website or tell you the name of the website.

Thank you.

Council Member Steele. No comment. Okay.

Okay. All right. No comment from me. Thank you all for being here and have a safe trip.