City Council - workshop

All right, everybody, we'll go ahead and get started with the, since it is 530, we'll go ahead and get started with the city council study session.

for Tuesday, August 4th, 2026. Welcome everybody that's here in person and watching or listening at home. We have two items on the agenda. The first one is a discussion with the University of Oklahoma School of Architecture Construction Science, School of Architecture Construction Science regarding student projects in city parks. And we have Parks Director here to lead us in that discussion.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council, for letting us present today. Jason Olsen, Director of Parks and Recreation. And I got Brian Bloom with the University of Oklahoma School of Architecture here with me. We're going to talk really quickly about a potential partnership between THE SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE AND NORMAN PARKS, A VERY EXCITING THING THAT HAS A LOT OF POSSIBILITIES, I THINK, BEYOND JUST THIS YEAR. BUT WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO HOP INTO THIS. THIS IS A POSSIBLE PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM HELPING US WITH THINGS LIKE SHELTERS, STAGES, OR FUTURE BUILD PROJECTS THAT WE CAN DO INSIDE PARKS. SO I'M GOING TO LET BRIAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT the American School of Design that's at OU.

Cool. Thanks, Jason. Thank you, everybody, for the time today and tonight, I guess, whatever time it is. So I teach in the construction science division in the School of Architecture. I'm a professor, and I teach several classes there, one of which is a program that's called the American School Design Bill, which is sort of homage to Bruce Goff and some people that were doing some things in and around Norman. Several decades ago, but we run a program. This will be our tenth year now where we task fifth-year architecture students to work with a community partner as well as a handful of fourth-year or senior construction science students to build a real project for For a partner so we've worked for nonprofits. We've worked for a We've worked for schools. And so our program is parallel to the school calendar. So our clients sort of come to us in the summer. We meet directly. With them and then by the time we show up in the fall The students are sort of ready to launch into some problem that we've created or some facility for them. So this is a real Project a lot of them have never realized one of their designs before even built something physically with their hands So it's it's it's certainly an educational model Not unique like there's other schools that do this Auburn probably had the flagship program with rural studio University of Colorado has a program. But we've been doing this for nine years. We kind of resurrected an old program that used to exist in our college. But we start in September. We work pretty quickly to come up with a design concept for our clients. And then generally by September, beginning of October, we've settled in on what we're going to do and we're starting work. And so we start foundation work in the fall. And then by the end of December, we sort of got foundations and slab done. And then in the spring, we come back and finish the build-out. We exclude things that we can't do from a licensing standpoint, like mechanical electrical plumbing. Our projects are typically, if we scroll through some of these, kind of like foundation shell structures of things like... pergolas, greenhouses, outdoor classrooms. We've done fully enclosed projects as well, but we kind of bite stuff off that's in the 600 to 1,200 square feet scale, something that we know we can deliver in a semester's time. The model is that we donate the students' labor 100%. There's no labor costs to our clients. The clients typically provide material and any heavy rental equipment that we would need to execute the work. And generally, it's really been an overall positive process. Our students are super hyped and stoked to get to work on this. You'll probably not find more motivated builders coming fresh out of school and wanting to see something get done. And then sometimes our clients will have things they want to add after, and we kind of accommodate things like that. Generally, we've done a range of project scopes and scales, anything from like $10,000 or $15,000 the first year to $80,000 or $90,000. That's kind of the range of projects that we've done. Typically, people come to us with bigger projects, but we can't generally get them done in two semesters. So this definitely has to sort of start and finish during the school calendar year. But one thing that Jason and I have talked a lot about is the sort of the immersion that the students would get in the municipal process, which is something we're also trying to get our students more awareness about. And so working with you guys and you guys is helping us educate what students need to know as they're kind of coming out and working on real projects here to go through. permitting and all that stuff. So that's kind of the quick, do we want to go into the project we talked about?

Yes, exactly. Brian missed rehearsal today, so he doesn't know what slide is next. But as we started talking about the relationship with parks, so what's really cool about THE POSSIBILITY WORKING WITH THE SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE AND HAVING THIS IS THAT WE HAVE 70 PARKS. WE HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF PROJECTS THAT THEY'LL PROBABLY NEVER BE ABLE TO CATCH UP TO SO THAT WE KNOW THAT COMING INTO A YEAR WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DO, EITHER IT'S A SHELTER OR A STAGE OR some minor adjustment that we look at as minor that is big for them in the park system. And so what we honed in to this year for their project is in conjunction with the TSAT Kids Space Playground project. IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER THERE AND IN THAT SECTION WHERE THE PLAYGROUND IS GOING TO GET BUILT, IT'S GOING TO BE A COMPLETE CLEAN SLATE. SO WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM TO BUILD A BRAND NEW SHELTER THAT MATCHES THE NEW ARCHITECTURE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING OUT THERE AT REEVES PARK. SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS. AND WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT A SHELTER, From our viewpoint, when we start newly with a shelter that's undesigned with an architect, once we get from design all the way through build, we're usually in a neighborhood of $250,000 to $300,000 pretty easily once you start talking about design, build. everything that comes comes along with that and also this fits perfectly within that scope when you start talking about a discipline shade shelter that goes out there there's no MEP that goes along with that so this fits perfectly in what what they are asking to do and what we actually need to be done but I want to give Brian a little bit more chance to go through some of his projects that he's done in the past

It can wait.

Go ahead. Okay. So this is the last maybe five or six years of projects. We started in 2017. This was a project. We've always also kind of challenged students to try to approach things from a progressive design and constructability standpoint. So this was all a CNC fabricated plywood trailer that we built for the Wichita tribe. Actually, during COVID, a really challenging project to get done. And this also came through a grant that they had applied for. So they were traveling around to some of their constituencies and doing different medical services and vaccinations and things like that out of here. So this was done in spring of 2021. We got into the outdoor grow space, come out right, but we got into the outdoor classroom and sort of grow house space for schools that were interested in kind of post-COVID and doing some gardening programs and things like that. We hooked up with Engage Learning, a nonprofit, and then worked with them as well as some other schools to build greenhouse space. This is down Mark Twain, near downtown Oklahoma City, and so it's part of an outdoor program where they do learning programs related to gardening and growing, things like that. That was the next year. Did another greenhouse, same kind of concept. This was for Crutchill Public Schools on the east side of Oklahoma City. Completed the following year. And then the next year we did one for John Rex, downtown Oklahoma City. The students also submit these for design awards and things, and this project actually won a National Design Award as part of the class. The students are always trying to push a lot of their own ideas, and we came back to different type of plywood frame and so we are always like it's not something that we just sort of go out and do or present these concepts to our customers making sure it's exactly what they want obviously as well I mean this was this was a challenging project to get done like while students were there on the playground working kind of trying to just from a timing standpoint but overall this is our biggest project it was about 1200 square feet all polycarbonate shell probably our biggest scale project but You know, when we were going up there, we kind of looked at, we really want to serve Norman. Like, we want to do projects in and around Norman. We want to do stuff that's more local to the school. So the following year, we worked for Sunhive in, I guess, the northeast part of town. If you don't know, they're a nonprofit that services their... their members, young adults that have aged out, the school system that maybe have developmental challenges and things like that. So they've got programs for them. So our students built this kind of community building for them and a multi-purpose building. Fully enclosed, but again, no MEP. And then this last year, we just finished a project for wild care down in Noble, and this is a native bat and chimney swift rehabilitation building that was completely round and very difficult from a lot of in a lot of ways, but we've learned a lot about how bats need to rehabilitate. And the students, this is almost like all that they're doing. So they really go all in on trying to find solutions for what worked for our clients. So this was a challenging but really fun project. And then Jason and I started talking about stuff he's got coming up. So just a lot of the scope of what we're delivering and sort of how we deliver, I think, ties into what you guys are sort of trying to do with your parks.

So as you know, we haven't got our award letter yet, but we got notice that we got a TSET grant for $600,000 to rebuild Kidspace. Kidspace initially came online in 1999. That playground is far beyond its useful life. We've gotten the most out of it. Very big credit to our park maintenance crew for keeping that playground alive so long. So you look at that little yellow box with the red square around that, that will be our project area. We don't necessarily know just yet. We're working with our architect. to decide where the playground is going to be placed and we'll also work with them to ultimately decide where the shelter is going to be placed. But that is our project area and Brian, I went to him and was like, what do you need for materials and supplies? So we set a $75,000 budget. That's not necessarily what they're going to spend but they have to stay within that budget. THAT BUDGET WILL HAVE THAT SET ASIDE ON AN AGREEMENT WITH THE SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE. THEY ALSO ASKED FOR A 10% ADMIN FEE. AND THAT IS SET ASIDE FOR BASICALLY PAYING FOR EVERYTHING THAT GOES OUTSIDE OF THE M&O OR M&S. SORRY, I'M SO USED TO SAYING OPERATION. BUT MATERIAL AND SUPPLIES BUDGET THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT CONSTRUCTION. AND THE SCOPE, WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THAT, WE'RE DEPENDING ON THEM TO DESIGN and construct everything from that shelter and uh we're excited from it from the the the process that uh we are quite familiar in the parks department of working with an architect and and starting from the the ground zero and working with the everything from design and then coming back with us from a concept and cost PROJECTION ON HOW MUCH THAT'S GOING TO COST. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THEM TO KIND OF DO THE SAME THING TO GIVE THESE FIFTH YEAR ARCHITECTURAL AND CONSTRUCTION STUDENTS A WHAT WE CONSIDER A REAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION EXPERIENCE. WE'VE EVEN TALKED TO PUBLIC WORKS IN PLANNING BOTH TO GO THROUGH THE the phase where they have to submit and get everything reviewed, and Public Works is going to work with them on what they actually look for on reviews, and we're going to work with planning on what inspections look like and what they expect for that. So it's kind of an all-rounded, very cool experience that... WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THEM. I THINK IT'S VERY COOL. I THINK THIS IS STEP ONE. WE HOPE THIS IS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND WE'RE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM A LOT IN THE FUTURE. LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE 70 PARKS. WE HAVE UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF, THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO RUN OUT OF PROJECTS. WE CAN ALWAYS FIND THEM SOMETHING TO DO WITHIN THE SCOPE OF PARKS. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE PROBABLY SOMEWHERE AROUND A QUARTER OF THE EXPENSE WHAT WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE FOR THIS, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR THE DESIGN. WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR CONTRACTORS TO COME IN THERE AND WORK. THIS IS A REAL-LIFE WORK EXPERIENCE FOR THEM. SO WE'RE PRETTY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. AND IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SCHEDULING, BRIAN,

from us? Yeah, I mean, just the main target dates kind of coincide with our academic calendar. So we start in August. We have milestones in terms of getting design in front of our clients pretty quick. And then, like I said, by fall break or before fall break, we're outside working. And then the only time we take off is spring break. I haven't been able to find a way to keep students here for spring break yet. But other than that, we're pretty much there. So it's like a class where they have to be there. So it's not typical contractors that say they're going to be there Wednesday at 9 AM. They have to be there. We're typically done by the end of April, and then we like to budget a couple weeks to have an open house and engage with our customers or clients to have some sort of event for them to show the new building. Haven't missed it yet. We have to really control elements of the project to make sure that we're able to do that, like working at heights and just different scales and things like that. So we've kind of dialed in where our sweet spot is to accommodate those dates. We always feel pretty good about them now.

And our initial idea where to fund this out of, we do have this as fit within the master plan of Reece Park. So, and as you know, we have some extra funding inside of normal forward. So we would propose to take this from the normal forward funding since it does fit within the scope of the master plan.

Yeah.

I mean, This is Ward 7, and I'm Ward 7, so I love it. I'm at this park all the time, and my kids have been waiting for this area to be kind of revamped and redone. So, yeah, that's super exciting for me. And also, I had a question of, just because I'm a teacher, so you said on the outdoor classrooms, and you mentioned a grant. Like, if I wanted to tell...

award seven school like madison actually may already have one what if i wanted to tell reagan elementary about this like how would they find out about the grant to maybe work with y'all so um what we're not great at is raising money i do tell people that so um normally people will come to us they the grants that we work for have been that schools have already had their own grants in place when we showed up and then they approached us but if it's something that like we could help do some grant writing. We would be all in for helping assemble the grant. We just don't really like apply for ourselves.

Okay. I didn't know if maybe you knew of a certain one out there.

Yeah, I could ask, which I can't remember. It's been a few years. I can't remember exactly where some of that money all came from. Okay. But, yeah.

I was just curious.

I know that it seemed like the schools, for a few years, they were having not a very hard time finding money for those types of projects.

That would be amazing. Thank you. Yeah.

I'm in favor of this moving forward. I just had a question about the Norman Forward Funds. So what are we shifting around to do the 75, 80K here?

There's nothing that we're shifting around. By our calculations, at minimum, there's going to be about $11 million remainder. At the end of that, it's excess money. Funding so that we're just taking a portion of that 11 million dollars and using for this We're also going to be asking a certain point probably the grab Several hundred thousand dollars to go along with the the playground construction because we do think it's going to be you know, $600,000. We do have a certain match that's inside there, and also we want to exceed the scope of that because to build a playground that we think that's deserving of this park and of the expectations, it's going to, I mean, probably all in, probably about a million-dollar project just for that playground area.

Okay. Yeah, that was just my question about the Norman floor.

Council Member Bruce.

I applaud Brian Yu and you for thinking about this. And you'd think we'd have a lot more of this with the university here, with other areas.

So whatever you're doing and having this happen, that's great. We're dipping our toes in. We think that this could be a long relationship. And the thing I'm excited about is that you're getting students that are very hungry on the front end. So hopefully we'll get a very cool design and a very cool end product from this. It's unique and something you don't usually see with our shelters or other things that hopefully they'll do in the future.

Councilman Dixon. I'm sorry, Brian, I didn't catch your last name right there. Bloom, B-L-O-M. Thank you for coming and not having Professor Reyes, because if he was here, I'd say no to this. I was a part of the first iteration of this way back in the ancient days when Ken Robson and Doug Transberry and Richard Ryan were doing this. I'll say it's fantastic. Every student learns a ton. The architecture students get to, like, they have to build what they draw, which is, you know... Sorry, I was a construction science guy, so I'm going to throw shade on architects. But the construction science guys, like, they... They haven't ever and don't, like, build things with their hands. Right. So, like, it's great for them. At least whenever I was doing it, like, I'm truly supervised. It's not like the students are just getting sent out there and then somebody picks them up, you know, or they just come back to class. Like, it's good quality construction. It's great. And I love this partnership, 100%. Cool. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Council Member Gansberry.

As I said, we do have, it's not in too good a shape right now thanks to the storm, but the MSTAT building on Robinson was built for the hospital by the same exact group from OU and everything also. And I found that out when we've been going through the process of it being demolished and everything like that. But that's who designed that. So we do have works from OU around town that we probably don't even know about and everything. For sure. That's great.

Yeah, there was a guy named Bill Bauman who was doing these decades ago, too.

Let's see. And you said we supply the material and supply it. Supplies the material.

So we give them a $75,000 budget. So they'll submit to us what their budget is at a certain point, and it would be kind of like an owner direct pay system. They'll go out there and purchase on our behalf, and then we would pay the bills.

And you said it fits with the Reese Park Master Plan and the new kid space layout. And then... And then, wouldn't be placed, basically, when we have events, Juneteenth, July 4th, Art Day, all that stuff. It's not gonna, I guess, we want it to be in a place that's usable, not a place that prevents those events or gets in there.

Correct. It's not going to be a whole lot of difference from... I would imagine the playground's probably more centered into that area. The shelter will coincide with that. So then if you look at the dates, it coincides with our T-set build. We imagine that... We're trying to go through the exact same process we did last time with Kid Space. So you would see a community build probably early spring sometime next year. And as you can see, this would coincide pretty close to that springtime where we would do that community build and hopefully be all done around the same time. And we can have some crazy party with confetti cannons and all that good stuff to celebrate everything.

Well, I'm definitely in support. can do more of it for sure. And we just note as well with the Norman Fullwood surplus funds that you mentioned, there are additional phases of Reeves Park that need to be completed at some point. There's an addition to the Adult Wellness Center that has been discussed. In addition to the WIFAC, there's lots of things that we had to maybe scale back a little bit in the beginning and have completed most of the projects now. And so that surplus, there's a lot of different things that can definitely go to, I think, getting the kids' space done. And even though it is wearing out, it is, I think, still the busiest playground in Norman. Every time I drive by there, there's people there. And city staff for years now has been doing everything they can to keep it functional. But it is 26, 27 years old. wood pillars in the ground for that long. Pretty amazing. And it's expensive to continue to maintain at its current aging condition. But everybody loves it. I love it. And I'm looking forward to being able to rebuild it with a community build. And I think this is a pretty cool addition to have with it. So, Council Member Grant.

Would we see in mid-September the concept design and cost estimate? Will you be back again?

We can bring it back to you if that's for sure. We were talking about bringing it to part board, but we would love to come back to it and share that with you guys.

We could throw it in the committee as just like an update. Yes, ma'am.

And, Council, something you might wish to consider, a lot of times when we... have an amazing project. We will anchor it with a brass plaque to kind of memorialize who participated in, I think, a partnership like this. We need to recognize the relationship, give those young architects and contractors a thing that they'll be able to show their kids and grandkids that that's one of the things they did. I think it's not a budget issue one way or the other, but I think this may be one of the

Any other comments, questions for staff? Brian? Okay. Thank you, Brian, for being here. Appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing it. Okay, item number two is a discussion regarding an updated fire station study to perform preliminary design services and a needs assessment for various fire department facilities. And we have fire department admin here to lead this discussion. This is related to the matrix study. It was done for both police and fire departments, really assessing all the city's public safety Needs and things like that so I mean All right

Good to be back with you this evening. As you recall, several months ago, we came before you to get permission to do these studies. You granted that to us, and we're thankful for that, and we're thankful for Mr. Paul finding the money to help execute these contracts. Tonight, I have Deputy Chief Chesser, Assistant Chief Smith, Assistant Chief Roney, Training Chief Mitchell here to help with this presentation. We tried to limit it as much as we could, not to get too far into the weeds, but there'll be parts where they're subject matter experts, and we'll let them talk about it. This is the overview of the public safety study that was presented to you back in 2025. 78 personnel, high priority need. Right now, we'll get into why that is as we continue through this study. Kind of give you a little history here of the last three stations that were built. Fire Station 7, 2001. Population of Norman at the time, and that's our total call volume at that time. We progressed forward to 2020. 2011, population, total call volume, an increase of 44% from the last time we built that fire station, Fire Station 7. 2013, Fire Station 9 was built. You can see our population barely increased. Call volume increased a little bit. Fast forward to today, Fire Station 9 is the last fire station we built. There's our population. There's our total call volume, and we've had a little over a 61% increase in our total call volume since Station 9 came online. Fire Station 7 was a bond issue. The station was built out of capital funds from that. No people were hired. I was at Fire Station 1, the last shift. We had two engines there, Engine 12s. left fire station one and it parked in station seven and it was rebranded station seven. So that's how the personnel came about for fire station seven. Eight and nine were part of public safety sales tax one. So those, that was passed by the voters. We hired 30 firefighters, 15 per station. We hired them sometime, you know, 2011, before 2011 and before 2013, got them trained, got them ready to go. When those stations were finished, we put them in there and off we went. So that gives you a little history of the last three stations and then kind of where we are today population-wise and call volume-wise. Next. So the first project we'll talk about here is part of Public Safety Sales Tax 2. This funding, already approved by the voters and the funding will be there as soon as finance and the city manager tell us to move forward, we'll move forward with relocating this fire station. We thought some time ago that the clear bay and highway 9 location would be a good spot for this. Part of the reason we did this deployment review. Was the turnpike system, so we wanted to make sure that that was not going to mess with our response or where we thought that station could go. The public safety study of 2025. Matrix believed that it could go there, and then we went back to them to make sure that it was still a good location for this fire station. They agree that it is. This is a 10-minute travel time. Keep in mind that when we see a heat map like this, that 10 minutes will shrink because that's just once you're on the road. Our goal is to get there, but you have to get the call, put your gear on, get in the truck, make sure you're taking the right equipment, so that's going to shrink how fast we can get where we're going. So Clear Bay, Highway 9.

And Chief, I think you might get into it, but going back to why relocating Fire Station 5 was even originally recommended with it being on the eastern edge of the city limits, basically, and by moving it further west expands its radius. I'll go to the slide just before again, Chief.

So our current Fire Station 5 is out here at 168th and Highway 9, right across from Little Axe High School. 180th is our border out there, so we're right next to the border. It's generally not good to have fire stations close to your borders. You want them in and then be able to respond out to your border. So it was decided to move this fire station, and the voters agreed more of the population base of this district is in that area. So we can get to where a lot of your call volume is going to be out there quicker. It also gets you at that Clear Bay entrance. So getting on the lake is very efficient from that location. Gets you right out on Highway 9. So we can get farther in this way than we typically could or where we are today at 168. Get a lot of high-speed car wrecks out here. So I think splitting the difference versus being way out there near the edge gets us on scene to those really high-speed events that we have out there sometimes.

Thank you. That's one of the main questions I've seen over the years about relocating that station.

That was proposed before this staff was in place, certainly, but the voters did agree, and we're here to execute when we're told to. All right, jump ahead, Chief. It's the intersection of Clear Bay and Highway 9, looking in from Highway 9. So that would be east, that would be west. casino is that way our current fire station to be that way so this is heading in from Clear Bay so this is looking down on that intersection now and this is where we're proposing that the fire station would go that land is governed by the Department of Interior so we'd be dealing with the federal government in some capacity to get to get a lease or to try to purchase that land from them so anyway That's how it sets on the ground there. We've also got Justin Myers here from Martinez Architecture, if you have any questions for them. But the station would set just like this off of Clear Bay. That's important also. We want to come out on Clear Bay and not Highway 9. So we get out, we get our lights on, we approach the intersection. You can have flashers slowing that traffic down. Much safer to come out on a side road than a main highway like that. But that gives you an idea of how it would set there on that piece of ground. Any questions so far? So this would be a concept of what it looks like here. What we did here in designing this fire station and working with Martinez, we worked with a general floor plan. And this will save the city substantial dollars in the future, but a floor plan that we could utilize for this station and future fire stations. So it incorporates some growth. but it also, it meets the needs of today's fire service and what we see in fire stations today across the nation. You can see the outside of the station, we incorporate some wood features, rock features, really fits into a state park type of look there. But you'll see when we go through this presentation, same floor plan in there, but we changed the outside up to look more residential or it could look however we want it to look depending on where that station is built in the community. Next, Chief. Now we're going to launch into Station 10. Two locations were identified, 36th Avenue and Highway 9, and then 24th and Cedar Lane. So the public safety study report recommended immediate construction of this fire station back in 2025. As you know, growth in that state area is there now and projected to grow by 60% over the next decade. So we have call volume there now, and it's going to continue to grow. Certainly, as you see the Destin Landing development going down there, I believe you guys just approved another Bellatona phase here of several council meetings ago. So we're seeing a lot of growth that way east down Highway 9.

I believe you're looking right now, there's over 900 platted lots in that neighborhood between Destin's Landing, Bellatona. It's anticipated and already entitled for a lot of residential.

Not counting all the stuff on the impult that's right across the street, does it, Rich?

Before we get too far down the road on the other ones, I do want to circle back just real quick on Fire Station 5. I asked the city manager... an updated list of the completed public safety sales tax capital products and how much the final cost of them all have been because of fire station five being the last voter approved project on the list and it requiring to get all of them done before we could finance it. But the EOC, Emergency Operations Center, the city-wide emergency communications system replacement, multiple fire apparatus, and other capital projects. So we can all have that updated list of what has been spent so far that voters approved and how Fire Station 5 fits into that Public Safety Sales Tax Part 2.

We'll send that list out to the council on Monday. We should have it all assembled for you.

And the rest of these projects that we're discussing would potentially be part of a Public Safety Sales Tax 3 initiative or something like that, potentially. But Fire Station 5 is part of the already existing Public Safety Sales Tax 2 that voters approved. and is the last project that was part of that project list. Council Member Grant.

BEFORE WE CAN START FIRE STATION FIVE.

THE LAST DEBT SERVICE PAYMENT WILL BE MADE ON EVERYTHING CAPITAL TO DATE, AND IT WILL POP UP NEXT TO THE TOP OF THE CAPITAL LIST. THIS CONVERSATION, WE HAVE SOME COST ESTIMATES. WE HAD A GENERAL IDEA ABOUT WHERE AND A GENERAL IDEA ABOUT WHAT. And we're narrowing in on, yep, that's the spot you want to build it, and here's what it is we will bring to you with the proposal to build with cost estimates from the architect. So we're just heading down that road to be able to execute and bring that Station 5 relocation as the voters had requested.

When was the last debt service payment?

Current fiscal year, Clint? Last PSST? Current fiscal year.

September.

This September?

Okay. So just in the existing... fire station crew would go to the new station?

Yes. So equipment and all, and as we did on station seven, building the building is a fixed cost. We'll sign a contract. It'll be finite. We can figure out how to build things like that. It's the million and a half dollars for the bodies you got to put in it that last forever and ever. So that's the budget challenge we face. It's less capital and more of the personnel.

The fire station five crew will be the right size for the new fire station five. Correct. It's not anticipated you need more bodies. Correct. Okay.

And emergency operations center, $10 million plus. Emergency communications system was $10 million. $15 million, I think, on all the radios and all that. And then paying off those things were the primary costs. Reason I guess you could say for the financing to get fire station five But I guess that final those two things will be paid off and then we can move forward so but just want to get that in there before we go on to the next ones because they're Require some additional thought Fire station

We could potentially see movement on by next summer.

In budget development, your priority is our priority. If we can figure out how to squeeze it into the 27-28 fiscal year budget, next year's budget, that's what we'll bring you.

Can we include what that debt payment is? Okay. And what that frees up. Okay. And make sure, I guess, if we haven't already been in those conversations with the Department of the Interior or Congressman Cole. But I would want to definitely make that a priority budget-wise.

And we can start that conversation tomorrow morning. And in the grand scheme of things, and I send you texts sometimes on the weekends about a boater or a skier that, and we launch the boats, it is good business from the State Parks Department's perspective to be that much closer to It's either the busiest or the second busiest state park in Oklahoma. So we think they would see great value in this opportunity as well.

TO DO IT, AND IT'S, I WOULD EASILY SAY IT'S IN THE NOT BEST, IT'S IN THE WORST CONDITION OF ALL THE STATIONS.

WHETHER OR NOT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT FEDERAL LAND, OBVIOUSLY WE'D LOVE TO BUY IT AND OWN IT, FEE TITLE. IT MAY COME WITH A 99-YEAR LAND LEASE OR A 49-YEAR PLUS A 49-YEAR OPTION KIND OF A THING. IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S APPETITE FOR FEE TITLE VERSUS LONG, LONG, LONG-TERM LEASE. DEPENDING ON HOW WE FINANCE IT, ANYTHING OVER 49 years is the same as ownership from a financing perspective.

Wow.

Yeah. Definitely a major priority for me, and we can have that discussion, but for sure it's going into next year's. Okay. Thank you, Chief. All right.

If there's not any more questions, we'll move on to Station 10 here. So this was covered as part of the Public Safety Study of 2025. Station 10 in the area of 36th and Highway 9. with another location identified at 24th Avenue and Cedar Lane. We'll go over the first location here, 10A. That's going to be at Highway 9 and 36th. You can see with a five-minute travel time, you can really reach out I mentioned the car wreck issues that we have out there. Also, the brush fires that can really get out of control. Getting units out there as quickly as we can in the most efficient way that we can is very advantageous. You'll see Station 3's area here. You've got Station 9 here. 9 has trouble getting down there because there's no bridge. from Highway 9 to Alameda, so they have to take longer routes and they really can't get down into this area. You see kind of a blank spot right here, and that was identified by Matrix as an issue. That's that Eagle Cliff addition, Ward 7 area. So heat maps They're accurate, but there can be different interpretations of those. So we want to continue to study this. We might do some live testing at some point, get PD to help us actually get rigs running hot for code three down there hot and see what time it takes. But that is an issue. We'll go to the next slide there and look at that. Now we've got 10B. So this is on over at 24th and Cedar Lane. You can see we're getting a lot of coverage here. We're also getting a lot of coverage down in Noble, right? So that's kind of the price you pay for getting more south down in there. You see a nice area here. You do have some overlap with 3. You do have some gap here, though, when you start butting up against 9's district. So there are advantages to that, but we would continue to study that. I might also add that I believe looking around the room, I think then Council Member Holman, Ward 7, was at the same meeting I was at. We may be the only two in here that were in April of 2016 when Destin Landing was approved. The developer did agree to donate land for a fire station. I don't know how solid that is, but that was said that night. Let's go to the next slide, and we'll talk about this more.

Mayor Rosenthal. Yes, she absolutely did.

Now, we kind of split the difference. We're not up here at the intersection of Highway 9 and 36, but when we come down, we think this is a good location. The advantage here is the city owns the land. This is at Saxon Park. This is going to be connected at some point, Saxon Park Drive, out to 36th. The fire station can sit right here. You're right here with people working out, so any incidents people have, you're right there. You can get out on 36th down to Cedar Lane, cut across 77. You're at Eagle Cliff. Highway 9 is just to the north, east, west, or you can get right back in the core of the town, 3's area, 1's area. We have a lot of call volume. We think it's a good location. This gives you an idea of how it would sit on that land there. And it also is the same floor plan as what we do at Station 5. So we think it's a solid floor plan. It's efficient. And it addresses the needs of the fire service today and allows for potential growth in the future. So that's how that would sit there. Chief, next slide. This is a concept of what I'd like there. So you can see we changed up a little bit of how the outside looks there, some of the facade. More of a residential look. Wildland-urban interface. You still have some wood components there. but it's starting to get more of a residential feel versus that state park feel. So that's Station 10. Any questions about that? No funding identified yet. No people to put there.

And, Council, one of the driving factors to bring us to tonight was a conversation by prior councils that said, When PSST2 was approved, we had a really good idea about how much fire truck cost and how much a ladder truck cost. And all those costs are now out the window because all that equipment's doubled in five years. Council was considering personnel being funded. one way and the capital needs instead of trying to get that out of sales tax maybe those are geo bond questions and we do one and that geo bond gets paid off and then we do another one and then that geo bond gets paid off as opposed to trying to handle both the building and the personnel out of that sales tax it just doesn't go very far when it's being and the last thing we want to do is build a new building and not be able to put 15 fire personnel in it so

Very good. All right, let's press forward, Chief. Now we're going to get into the North Base area. We talked a little bit about this before. Several years ago, myself and Chief Mitchell sat on a board, I believe it was back in 2022. It was kind of a North Base redevelopment plan. We put this back into this study because one of the questions that came up while we were looking at a deployment review for the whole department was, where can the fire administration be? Does it need to continue to be with the fire department? It could be combined in a police kind of public safety facility, right? So we looked at this. We thought, well, let's throw that before matrix and let's look at if the fire admin could be moved. Where could it be moved? So this looks at adding that there along with other of our divisions and kind of reimagining that as the plan dictated back in 2022. Okay, so let's go to the next slide. So this is an overview. Existing Fire Station 7 off Goddard, the airport would be just above us here. You can see that. 77 is out here. The YMCA would be back down here, way down here. OU owns this land here, so this is the old Flight Academy. That plan talked about the city purchasing this land and a sliver of land around the whole North Base area. It was also talked about where our current fire Burn tower training facility. It sits right down in here. So this is the Wash Bay facility This is the current lay down yard. I believe streets has that we're kind of sitting down here and we're sort out in the way now the way this is all configured So it was talked about switching land with them and we could put a new burn tower here it is in need of replacement so we could go there and proposed fleet storage facility and training area that that has been we've teed that up a few times and we have not been able to get that building built through the years but this would be storage for our reserve apparatus keeping them out of the weather and also getting some equipment out of the station 7 truck bay room it's very crowded in there so a boat Pulling units, several units as well as several reserve engines could be stored here. And then dirty classrooms here. So classrooms that you could still do training evolutions in without messing up our good training room, which is right here. So that building could be put right here. You've got the new burn tower right here. And then this is a proposed prevention and training facility. So that's where our station now sits today. And these buildings would be added with a land swap right here. Chief, let's go to the next slide. So that's a concept of what it would look like. This exists right here today to this point right here. This is our current training room right here. Truck room, Station 7 on this side. So this would be the proposed prevention and training center. Now, several slides from now when we start talking about Station 1, you'll see our admin connected with Station 1. But if for some reason we had to reduce that footprint or that plan got altered, you can add a third story right here and Fire Admin can go there. It was identified in the study that your fire admin needs to be with the fire department. It needs to be connected to a fire station. We have that currently programmed with our fire station one. It's been that way since 1894. It's worked well for us. It's working well today. There is an argument, though, that it does work equally as good or better up here at our training center, right, with our full admin, our prevention, and our training divisions. We have multiple companies coming in there daily for training, and we can be right there with that. So I'm very comfortable if our admin were to be here, but we have it currently with our fire station one as it is today at our location at 415 East Main since 1963. We've been there with our fire station.

That works with the airport and...

Yes, it should. Yeah, there shouldn't be an issue.

And then with a place for prevention, we're not really using the investigation center for the fire department sign anymore.

That is correct.

And so this would be a permanent... new home for prevention and investigation.

That's right. Several years ago it was identified that a more efficient place for prevention would be back with the fire department as well. We think it's better that way. Communications are better. Cohesiveness is better. So they've moved out of the NIC area and we made a place for them currently in our fire station 8. So it's kind of a makeshift place for them. Our fire marshal is with us at 415 East Main. But this facility would allow them to all be together. So our weekly inspectors would be there as well as our 24-hour shift inspector. So you'd have someone spending the night at that location as well. But your fire marshal would be in this building. They would occupy the second floor. And then our training division would occupy the first floor.

on that note will the investigation center be part of these facilities future of that if we're not using it for fire department anymore we'll be bringing you that contract here in the next uh couple of meetings and we can absolutely share that with the consultants to include that thought in the study councilman as a person that likes training

I'm all in favor for this idea and concept, for one. I mean, as we're talking about shortages of people all the time in the fire, and I always think that it's best to invest in who you have. Definitely know that when somebody doesn't come poaching from you and stuff. And I think this would offer us the top-of-the-line training opportunities for our men and women that are out there with the latest and greatest. I'd also like to see us, you know, if we haven't already, being that close now to the airport and stuff, reach out and offer assistance on training on airport property and everything like that for the big companies. More flights that come into there and everything else, we might have stuff that this needs to be able to handle as well there.

I'm going to let Chief Mitchell address that and the benefits of getting an upgrade facility. Jesse Mitchell, appreciate y'all's time.

So currently we do conduct airport training once a month. Today, in fact, I completed getting a schedule for the next three months. So we have a really good relationship with Derek Malone out there and Lance Lampkin. They're part of the OU emergency operations group. And so we try to get together once a month. The last session we had, we actually conducted in the training center. With that being said, our current training center, when we conduct recruit academies and our academies internally, I mean, we're breaking a bunch of OSHA violations, a bunch of NIPA violations. We store our bunker gear in the classroom, which is a great risk for cancer. And so this plan right here that was identified, Martinez kind of drafted up. They put a dirty classroom out back. On the backside of that structure, on a slide before it, it showed like an apparatus storage location. So when normally when our people go in to take their vehicle into the shop, having a storage location right there where you just grab the reserve unit, it's already on north base. It's efficient. So one of the things that we've been looking at is trying to figure out how to reduce the liability for the city. There are no showers for male or female in the training room. There's a bathroom and a foyer, and that is it. So this would actually fix a lot of those issues. But more importantly, we host training not just for normal fire department workers. You know, here coming in October, we're actually going to host training for fleet. So they'll host an emergency vehicle technician conference. They'll bring in people from all over the United States to this conference. We'll host it for them. We'll proctor the exam and facilitate that. And so we were looking at ways to reduce liability for the city and also be efficient and be in line with the 2022 feasibility study that was done for North Base. And so they took that North Base feasibility study. And then they expanded from what that study suggested, and then Martinez came in and drew all these plans that would fix the needs for us as a city.

I can see it also that those recruits from other areas might decide that one day that's cheaper just to get a smaller plane and fly all the recruits in and land right next to you also and come over there for training and stuff also.

Any other questions? So that's a concept there, and like I said, if the admin does not work, we're proposing it today, which you'll see in just a minute here. It can be added right here. And Matrix does support that. They almost like that better, you know, quite frankly, but let's continue on. All right, now we do get to Station 1. There were four locations that were identified two really made it to the end as viable. And that's where we currently sit today, and that's also at West Main and Santa Fe. So that's where we sit today is location one, and then 1C will be referred to as the Santa Fe and Main location. Let's go to that next slide, Chief. administration. I'm going to let Chief Smith talk about this. This came right from the deployment review talking about administration.

Hi, I'm Jason Smith, Assistant Fire Chief in charge of administration. Like Chief King said, the study identified that fire service organizations are more effective when admin and support staff are intermingled with the operations or the field people. By locating this all together, there are several advantages, such as real-time discussions, real-time decision-making, communications better, so on and so forth. And we're talking about the study identified two types of, I don't want to call it a campus, but one of them was a fire station that was integrated with the admin. that's what we currently have now and have had since we started and it's a concept that works that works great and it's wonderful and you'll see here in just a moment on these slides that that is going to be presented here if we need to scale down what you'll see on station one then it would end up being what he's talking about is a campus-wide type concept and that's where you have your your prevention your training and your administrative so essentially 40 hour work week employees at the station with your with your field personnel this is the trend that we're seeing nationwide and you know it was even mentioned in our architectural meeting that when they're drawing plans for fire stations that these two concepts are the these are the ones that people are going with

Your downtown headquarters station is probably the most popular. City of Edmond, though, recently did what I was talking about, a Station 7, more of a campus approach. So it has been done in the metro, but everywhere else it's going to be with your downtown headquarters station. That's what we have here now. Chief, let's go to the next slide. So deployment analysis, this is where we set today. This is going to be five-minute road time. Keep in mind that shrinks when you have to, process the call at your station and then get get your proper gear on and get the right equipment but as uh Matrix points out in the current deployment review that it's hard to argue that it doesn't work when it's been working it works here at this location right so so that's what it looks like those are your heat maps they support having it where it currently is

As the chief described, when he was at Station 1 and we built Station 7, we just took half the bodies and half the equipment and Station 7 was up. Now we're back to the call volume where, yeah, we need another engine or another engine company at Station 1 just to keep up with the call volume.

Appreciate your kind words on that video, too, Mayor. That station is averaging, so far this year, 605 calls a month. So according to our research, it's right there, maybe the busiest in the state of Oklahoma, quite possibly. All right, let's go to the next slide. All right, this is Santa Fe and Maine. Matrix identified that the differences are not substantial, right? If we move it here versus where it currently is today, not substantial, and it provides other things, enhanced visibility, community presence, integration with future redevelopment initiatives, highly visible public safety facility that corporates emergency response operations, administration functions. It offers advantages that our current location does not. So it'd be a lot more visible. It could really be a centerpiece in downtown as you look to revitalize that possibly, but it would be a nice centerpiece, I believe. um it does um there were kind of gaps down in this area where we have high call volume it gets us closer to that to kind of kind of um get shrink some of those gaps you can see the red though where it opens up some gaps that don't exist today so that's just part of the game we play when we build fire stations yes ma'am um when you say westman and santa fe downtown are we talking

Because I'm looking at it, and I only see one green spot, and the rest is already built out.

We've got a slide here to address that. It's right here coming up, maybe the next one even. Yes. So to build this fire station here... And it's still listed as Southwestern Bell, which I found interesting on the county's website. So AT&T Southwestern Bell has this parcel here. This is First Baptist Church. So both of these plots would need to be acquired by the city somehow. And then we would build that fire station. Some of the challenges, parking and then acquiring the land. But it does work from a response perspective.

And I'm just thinking about our downtown festivals and what not street closures wouldn't be possible with this location You could keep There'll be a side street, something has to stay open but you could potentially close Main Street, Santa Fe and the alleyway gotta stay open.

We've thought about that and if the city which I believe you are pushing forward with both east-west traffic on Main Street which I think has worked great on Gray so far, but you'll have that center turn lane, which possibly could keep open and then close the other outer lanes potentially, but keep us a fire lane going down there. I think we can find a way to make it work.

So right now, on that same note, Norm Music Festival boundary ends at Santa Fe. The back of that stage faces Santa Fe, that intersection. That would still be intact there? Yeah, and the challenge is... We're closing at Porter now, right on the front of the other station.

And the challenges presented today, we have today, just at another location, right? So we're responding in golf carts or our gators into that for medical calls. And if you have a fire call, we're just trying to make a way, right? So that all gets approved through our fire marshal's office, and we make sure that access is still there, even though it's closed off.

But if that relocates from East Main to West Main... then that building, whatever we hold on and deal with it, but that enables closures to go on the other side of Porter where previously we have not been able to do that.

That's one way to look at that, correct.

Stash and all that.

That block. That is correct. That's right in front of Fire Station 1.

I'll just say from a Ward 4 perspective, Fine with either. I do think this one will be more challenging now. Not for the street closures, just for the land acquisition.

Those are, yeah, that was definitely brought up as challenges the city would face.

Now you have the ability, if it were here, you can take Gray Street to go east if Main Street were closed for an event.

There's things that, like, oh, now we can do this, and then there's things you lose, right? And that was identified in the study that, you know, the rail, you're on the other side of the tracks. Well, we're on the other side of the tracks. There's recalls we couldn't get to, and, you know, you just flip your problems, essentially. So flip the challenges. But, yeah, land acquisition is going to be part of the equation.

And then on the slide where you had, like, the heat map of where Station 1 is.

Go back to that, Chief.

That open up on the other side. Uh-huh. The red crosshatch, is that gaps or? New gaps.

So yeah, this would be, if you moved it to Maine and Santa Fe, those are gaps that sort of were not, that don't exist now.

Where are those locations that are in the red?

Well, we're out here, yeah, it'd be Griffin and Eastern Fair. And there's already gaps, you know, you're not going to get, it's not going to all fit in any city, but you're just making a few more gaps. But we're, we feel comfortable with that.

And do we have other fire stations imagined or is this, are these just the ones we're talking about today? Well, there's more. Okay.

They are. Yeah. We'll get to those in the slides here.

Did they help improve the gaps on that east side?

Not currently, no. No, we wouldn't be adding any more to the interior right now.

Yeah, I wish we could just imagine some folks on the east side. I feel like Ward 4 is still covered, even if you're in the west main area.

We feel comfortable with the coverage if you did move it. And it's the same situation in Ward 5, moving Station 5. You know, there's people that have... That's part of when you move things or do things, there's... There's those challenges, right? But we feel comfortable if you didn't move it, we can still get there in a proper amount of time.

Well, seems like a proposed 10, get five done, that covers Southeast Norman.

That Saxon helps these guys tremendously. Yeah, I think it'll help a lot with the gaps because they can shoot up.

There was a gap in the first study, and I kind of mentioned this a while ago, and it's down in here.

That's what I remember you mentioning was the gap between two and one.

Yeah, so back in the early 70s when we moved Station 2 to its current location, from near Lyons Park there.

To West Boyd Street.

Yes, West Boyd. And then we moved to Station 3 from the Duck Pond down to Constitution back in the early 2000s. And then Station 1 back in the early 60s moved from Gray to where it is now. It kind of made some holes down in here, which they were concerned about. Matrix is not as concerned about that, but you've got higher density down here. So if you did move it, you're closing some of that gap that was identified in the first study. So you gain some, you lose some, but it may be a higher density, higher call volume down there that we could be covering now.

Oh, yeah. When you factor in the, I don't know if the matrix study even looked at the Griffin conceptual master plan that we've adopted, and a couple thousand housing units that would be included in a again, a conceptual idea of what the Griffin Hospital campus could be developed out as in the future if the state ever figures out what they want to do. And we want to be prepared for that, so that's what we've been trying to do. But I could see, based on the density of that proposed new neighborhood, that a second downtown fire station in the future where we either build a new one now on this side of the tracks or we build a new one in the Griffin neighborhood in the future. At some point, we're going to be building a new fire station or two in the central core area, I think, to support increased density, which is what the AIM plan favors a lot is making better use of existing space in the core area, empty lots, underutilized properties, one-story buildings that people might want to develop or add on to. Yeah. And so I could absolutely see if we were to do fire station one relocation to this spot down the road as part of the Griffin property, maybe as part of that whole... TIF or whatever comes of that, putting in a second downtown station, but being in that Griffin neighborhood.

Catherine would tell us that a fire station is infrastructure in all those conversations we've had in the courts, and TIF dollars could be used to develop such.

this too is that the Center City TIF didn't I don't think ever anticipated a new fire station being built in the Center City area but it would be in the Center City form based code and TIF area so when you look at that redevelopment in that Center City area you know I like having that ladder company that much closer to it as well but you're right you're taking it away from something future out there and if we were just gonna have one fire station in this whole area Matrix seemed to frown on going any further east with where we are today, right? You can go west some, but east is problematic. This one you could do. You could put that and then add another one. Fill those gaps up there. You certainly could.

And the thought of this site and not negatively impacting TIFF, The church property is not on the tax roll, and the strip owned by Bell is pennies on the tax roll. So you could make it happen without a negative impact.

I guess a question of if Center City TIF funds could be used to purchase.

So those funds are pretty tied to the infrastructure analysis done by Johnson and Associates. So water lines, sewer lines, things like that. We've talked about amending the plan to allow for other things, and that's possible here as well. But I think it's currently written it does not contemplate purchasing land or constructing a fire station or something like that.

Something we could, is possible, potentially. Okay. Councilor O'Brien, yeah.

Also, I thought, So if you do move it to West Main in Santa Fe and you hold on to the fire station one location, that could be like a temporary incubator for something. And then we could revisit it, revamp it, and turn it back into a fire station.

Absolutely. And or something to contemplate in the East Main TIF. What could you envision?

OK. Just some thoughts.

Council Member Kirby. Okay. But yeah, I think that's a good part of that discussion. In the video about the spotlight for Fire Station 1, it wasn't a fire, but an alarm going off in one of the apartment buildings in the Center City area.

There were a lot of those.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. Anyway.

All right. If we're ready to move on, we'll move on. Chief? So this is how it would sit. On that, you know, we would have parking for fire staff here. We've got up to anywhere from 13 to 15 people coming on duty every day. So you're at shift change, so you're parking a lot of cars at one time. So you can park those cars here. We still have some possibly up here and on the side here. you couldn't acquire some of these properties and you had to kind of shrink the footprint that's where we could look at putting the admin of a seven that's why we they were part of that study and what we could do here but currently today that's how I would sit on those properties chief you want to go the next slide yeah that's specific to that specific I mean that footprint fits any downtown block or a corner of any downtown block but

This is based off this facility. If they were to move one block over, that could be a whole other thing.

That could be, yes. But we did it right for that area right there. But yes, you can take this footprint and put it.

I KNOW THERE'S A FEW DOWNTOWN LOCATIONS WHERE THERE'S AN EMPTY LOT OR SOME VACANT FOR SALE ONE-STORY BUILDINGS ON GRAY STREET, FOR EXAMPLE. BUT JUST I KNOW THE RADIUS OF EACH BLOCK MAKES A DIFFERENCE. COUNCILMEMBER?

I MEAN, WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A PARKING GARAGE ON GRAY. I DON'T KNOW HOW A FAN OF parking garage and walking to work.

Yeah, we can study that. I mean, it's, we talked about different options, you know, parking our people, staging them and taking a bus to work. It kind of gets, logistically, it becomes more challenging, but if you have one close enough where they could walk, we could look at that.

The Gray Street parking lot is envisioned as being a parking garage, so it's not too far away.

Get some lenient captains that won't ride them up for being late when Two blocks, huh? Yeah, it could actually park right here. So these are some concepts here of it sitting right there and tried to kind of give it some of that old downtown look to kind of fit in with current buildings down there. First floor is going to be your truck room and your maintenance for that and entry point for the public. Second floor is going to be your firefighter living quarters. Their offices, shift commanders would be up there where they train. All of that would be on the second floor. And then your fire administration would be on the third floor. So all the staff, all the sports staff would be on that third floor. So it's neat. It's tidy. I think it works well there. I think it would add to our downtown area. I think it would look good.

So if fire administration did go on the north campus, would this just be a two story or would you still have the third story for something else?

Yeah, I mean, we would probably look at going back to two and squeeze it in a little bit. You can look at that and then that might. Well, we're not going to have as many people coming here every day. So your parking situation is lessened. Also, you can knock the third floor off. The mayor brought this up in our first meeting several months ago. Station 2 is on the rebuild in the public safety study. It's seen, it's lived its life. You can also use this two-story version of this to rebuild Station 2 where it currently is. So we can save money in the future by using the same floor plan.

And like Station 2, we would insist on a three-story pole to be able to slide.

and is a two-story building currently that we have in Norman. But it has some issues that have been pointed out that we're either replacing it or some pretty significant renovations.

Anybody on staff fell down that pole before?

Two in the morning. Yeah. And the Firehouse Arts Center.

Sometimes you miss. The Firehouse Arts Center still has the original pole from when it was original fire station, too. That's right.

So that's what it looks like if it were to be sitting there.

Yeah, I like it a lot. I would maybe a little bit more historic on the, you know, think Ghostbusters firehouse.

We can take care of it. Aesthetics for sure.

So yeah, definitely more. Make it look like it's 150 years old or something.

Dirty it up a little bit.

Yeah But no, I think it would be really neat to do that Obviously if it's able to increase coverage and reduce response times in central, Norman But also, you know a fee, you know a building like that a public building with a fire department admin and fire station one in the middle of downtown would be I think pretty significant and a good thing for businesses and people working there would go eat lunch probably and maybe at Scratch or wherever.

That's some of the things Matrix is pointing out. There's benefits there that we don't have currently.

And you said this works with a two-way Main Street?

It does. Sure. Okay. All right, let's go to the next slide, Chief. Now we move to 11, Station 11, Tecumseh and 24th or Franklin and 24th. were identified by Matrix. I believe they believe, and we believe, certainly, that Tecumseh and 24th is the best location for that. It does mesh nicely with Stations 1, 7, and 9 to the south. If you get it up on Franklin, there's our border more in Oklahoma City out here. We're providing them coverage that we don't need to be doing. So it closes those gaps. You're going to have little gaps no matter what you do, and we're comfortable with that, but we're getting a big chunk of that covered at that location.

Any questions on Station 11?

Yes, sir.

Right there at 24th and Franklin, that actually goes all the way out to Indian Hills, does it not? And then hook all the way back down Indian Hills and out. And isn't that where they're about to try to stick a turnpike on us? So more than likely that east-west is going to be super developed like they did at Edmond. So will you still be able to cover all that expansion from the turnpike coming in if it's down at Tecumseh?

We think so. And that was part of what Matrix was commissioned to do to identify the best location for knowing that the turnpike, where it's going to be. So they feel like that's the best place. Tecumseh still goes out quite a ways, and you can shoot up to Franklin, shoot up to Indian Hills if you need to, get on the turnpike right up here if we need to, and shoot out east or west from that location. We think it does work, and we'll address that future development.

Yeah, because the school the guy was talking about before, that they did the parks... Construction on right there just on the northeast corner of 24th and Franklin So they don't have no protection right now.

Yeah We would we they would be inside though of our yeah, they have nothing now But but if we built it it comes to you know, that's still within our radius where we feel comfortable providing that protection All right, let's go to that next slide station 12 So this was, we identified 108th and Franklin area. Had some rather big fires out there in the last couple of years. A lot of development going on, a lot of big houses going on up there. We have a hard time getting there. It's kind of that reverse L area, that part in the lake area there. They agree with us. It is in a farther timeline. So we could look, we can be flexible with the location, but basically Matrix is telling us, let's see how that all develops out there, what happens, and then you can adjust. But the 108th and Franklin area does work if you had to make a decision today. But that is not, we don't have it programmed, nor are we asking for it any time immediately. Chief? Interchanges I'm gonna have chief Chester talk about that part of what they were commissioned to do was identify now that we know where these Turnpikes are going How does it affect where we're looking at putting fire stations and how do we need to access it? Like what is needed from the fact from a public safety perspective?

Chief Joel Chester deputy chief. So there's a cheap penis. It showed y'all stations 11 station 12 proposed areas One of the things that I know that's been talking about and again, I'm not here in for a turnpike or against a turnpike I'm here for a voice for public safety. That's about a seven mile stretch and What I see a lot of times happen on the Turner Turnpike, there's large stretches of highway and you see on the news all the time, you see the semi wrecks, you see the bad car wrecks and stuff. If there's not an interchange location on there, we could have some pretty significant delayed responses. The other thing that happens is there'll probably be a lot of hazardous materials that are gonna be transported down the turnpike. When you have a hazardous materials incident, those don't usually stay in one location. They migrate off and they affect the surrounding community and the citizens there. So those are some concerns from a public safety standpoint. A couple of interchanges that would be split that up so we could access it from station 6, as Chief King talked about the placement of station 11, and then even that station 12 coming in from the east side there. So as it is now, if you had, we've got fire station number 6 out there, they're on Alameda, they would have to go probably down 72nd or 60th down there, jump down on 9 and get on and come back in. When you're dealing with a fire on a semi that has hazardous materials, minutes are very, very valuable. When you're dealing with somebody that's trapped in a car and we need to get the jaws of life on them and get ALS, advanced life support, on them, minutes count. And so when we're looking at this from a public safety standpoint, we would appreciate the consideration of those interchanges being thoughtfully placed in there to allow access not only for fire, for police, for MSAP. So that's where we're coming from because it's not only visitors that are going to be going down that turnpike, it is citizens in Norman that will be traveling down that turnpike. And our mission statement is the preservation of life and property for the citizens. And so that would be aligned with our mission and goals.

So they identified Highway 9, Alameda, Tecumseh, as the Chief said. Access is paramount. The one at Highway 9, you would have a future Station 10 and 5 being able to access that at 9. If you had one at Alameda, you've got Station 9 there today and Station 6 coming in from the east that can access it. In the future, you've got 11 that can get on at Tecumseh, potentially, and then a 12 coming in. You also have our rescue at Fire Station 7, which is on the airport. They're coming out. They're getting on 77. They're going to Tecumseh. They could get on it. not only could it be used, we're talking about things that happen on it, but us utilizing it, right? So you've got these north companies coming in, trying to get down to the south, get down to the east to help with grass fires. We can utilize it to help improve our own response times. So as the chief said, that's a decision you all can make. We're here just to present you with the challenges of having interchanges or not having them, and we think it's a benefit to public safety across the board. So thank you for your consideration of that.

Any questions? also not related to public safety but and not on the south extension but on the east west connector yeah isn't there currently a interchange planned at like highway 77 in the northeast or like 77 and sooner sooner or 12 sooner yeah sunny lane i think that's it we got on their website and there seemed to be several

So we are hearing from them on August 11th.

That is at your discretion. If you say you'd like to have them here, we'll have them here.

I still have some outstanding questions from retreat, which was how much are service calls for accidents like you can see on a turnpike? And then also verifying, statutorily speaking, why you would have to enter an agreement versus them just doing it.

When Hazmat calls the Rivers Hall, it's responsible. So we try to bill them as a city that affected us.

Yeah. We were just made aware that.

That's good that we can bill somebody.

people get on accidents, whether they're Norman citizens or traveling through. And since we didn't ask for it, we'll incur the cost of those on top of what we're already doing. So the thought was, who knows, maybe the county might help with their PSST to

cover some things i don't know does the county psst help uh is there any crossover with working with the fire department there is uh i'll let you chester talk to that we've we've benefited from that several times in the years there is and it's usually in relation to equipment so most of the time they've helped us out with av monitors they've helped us out with many other types of equipment that we have so there is it's usually tied to equipment

Smaller equipment.

Smaller equipment. It's usually not tied to any services that we provide. In the past, we've been examining. There's third-party billing companies out there that can look at billing for car wrecks and hazmat. We have had a hazmat incident in Paul's Valley where we went outside of our community and we recovered, I believe, $10,000, $11,000 of our materials that we used for them. So we do have the ability to to get back on materials if we do respond in those instances on that.

So it's supposed to be some sort of automatic aid agreement that you can look to enter into with terms like authority or county or whatever, I don't know.

Yeah, I was just thinking about how do we make up those costs.

Some of the equipment that they're talking about are some specialized monitors for EMS, and they're around $50,000 each. We have three of them, and because we have those three, that was instrumental in us being able to introduce advanced life support protocols in East Norman.

That's been huge. That's been life-saving and life-changing for the residents in East Norman. So you don't see that in many rural communities where they can get on scene, push what we call ALS drugs, and have a monitor there. So we've had a lot of success with that program out there.

Council Member Dixon.

Just to piggyback on the customer grants thing, I've been talking to Chief King and the city manager for three, four, five, six months about finding a way for us to build insurance for car wrecks, naming Tesla fires and hazmat spills and all that. So I know we've been looking at that for a little bit.

And what I don't know, if our computer-aided dispatch can help us identify... We respond to calls on I-35. We don't do traffic enforcement, but if something bad happens on I-35, we're there usually first. If there's something on Highway 9, we're there. I don't know if we track how many of those accidents are Norman residents versus people just happen to be on that thoroughfare making their way to other parts, but it would be interesting to see what that insurance impact would be on Norman residents versus should we be sending a bill to somebody who came up here from Texas and we incurred a big expense because we were responding to their emergency. We can revisit that any time you're ready, sir. Yes.

like that all right let's move on to our next slide so this is a councilman i'm sorry i want to know if y'all have actually contacted the ota and asked them since they are on bonds and apparently have endless pockets have they offered to put their own fire station or own emergency service station anywhere along the turnpike i mean because you ask 98 of the people in ward 5 they're going to tell you they don't want any one of them on and off ramps and 11 miles How often do y'all travel 11 miles right now to get to an emergency response because we haven't moved Fire Station 5 or we haven't built Fire Station 10 or we don't have Fire Station 11 or whatnot? How many times do y'all right now drive 12 miles just to get to residents in Ward 5 that have been here for five generations and we have ignored them? I know for a fact they're saying it won't take any more houses at Tecumseh. I've noticed that the city has put a shed in front of the well at Tecumseh right around the 5300 area. I'm guessing that's probably starting to plug on it or something because, you know, that's kind of the route of the Turnpike. I don't know what you're doing at that well particularly. Okay, so it's not for the Turnpike. So, once again, 50, 60 miles out there on Turner Turnpike. I-35 and Highway 9, they're not paid highways. They have people out of state all the time, but 11 miles ain't that far. Even if you shoot from Alameda to Highway 9, that's two miles. A mile over two miles to double back, you got 13 miles max. And to not put them on ramps, you don't take somebody's house at Tecumseh because the turnpike came on the other day and said, oh, it's not going to take nobody's house. The lady that sits right next to my wife at work, if they put that, will lose her house. If they put one at Alameda, the man who just lost his house in a tornado and got it rebuilt will lose his house. So, I mean, I think we need to stay out of business with the mafia and we darn sure don't need to be negotiating with the turnpike, especially on on and off ramps. If they want them, let them build them and let them see what happens with Ward 5 residents and lawsuits.

That's certainly a discussion for council. I'll tell you that in my career here of 30 years plus now, if we just use I-35 as an WITH NO ENTRY ON TO IT IF WE HAD TO GO THAT AMOUNT OF TIME, I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW MANY MORE DEATHS I'VE SEEN IN MY CAREER NOT BEING ABLE TO GET ON I-35 IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. SO WE'RE JUST BRINGING THAT TO YOU TO CONSIDER AS FAR AS WHAT YOU DECIDE TO DO, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO DO THE BEST JOB WE CAN WITH WHATEVER THE FINISHED PRODUCT IS. BUT FROM OUR EXPERIENCE, IT'S CRITICAL TO HAVE ACCESS ON THAT HIGH SPEED STUFF.

State level safety. What department or agency is state level safety?

So it would depend on what type of safety. You've got Oklahoma University management that would kind of govern it. You've got the forestry department that sort of handles some firefighting aspects. You've got highway patrol that would handle, you know, law enforcement type aspects. So they kind of have multiple departments, from what I understand of your question there, that would handle types of state provided safety.

I'm just... Hypothetically, I'm thinking, well, if I'm responsible for state safety, I'm some office up there, and I say, okay, they've got a term, if I come in here, okay. And I understood, okay, we're not putting an exit on north-south related to a population, you know what I mean? Yeah. And the travel, and my question would be, okay, why not? Yeah. You know what I mean? I would drive OTA to answer that question. Does that make sense? It does. I would be worried for the same reasons that you're worried for access if I had that position. Does that make sense? It does. So I'm looking at a driving function. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm driving OTA if I have that position.

Certainly, if they can provide that service, we'd feel better about it. It seems to be the pattern in the state of Oklahoma that when a state or federal highway comes through your community, your community's responsible to deal with it. Now, as far as I do like the approach and the questions asked, is there a method to go get reimbursement? I love that, certainly. Is there a way we can partner with them or get into an agreement to help reduce costs for personnel and equipment that you're sending to that. There's models out there, you know, back when Hall Park was Hall Park, we built them for fire trucks that would respond. The people, the apparatus, so much per hour. I think that's a great question to ask, but there is no, like, fire station's structural response rigs that I'm aware of that the state is going to provide to these locations. They'll do, like, rural firefighting, brush firefighting, and we've got that assistance in the past, but not this kind of stuff.

I understand and related to equipment and all this. I'm thinking from a strategic standpoint, hey, we're putting in infrastructure within a state, and the governor or someone's going to tap me related to safety and Does that make sense? It does. And so I'm thinking, okay, there, I'm putting a major spur down north south next to, you know, a major city, third largest city. And if I understood, okay, there's no, we're not gonna put any in there. I'd say, well, that doesn't make sense from a safety standpoint. Does that make sense?

Sure. Council member Bruce, that thought of a data driven push. It would be interesting to see what kind of accident data on the whole turnpike system. Obviously, the number of trips per day is going to help drive the number of accidents that they need to respond to. And we've seen the newer designs, they have higher speeds than the initial designs. And are those stats accurate? One, do they have them? Two, do they do anything with them? Have they gone anywhere? Have they had that conversation? We are aware that they are in the hole. $8 billion package, they're going back and they're adding interchanges on those long stretches where they didn't previously have access. So they have recognized there's a problem and they're adding those at the turnpike's expense years after the fact.

Yeah, so think about if you're in a really, really, really small community and you don't have an access... you have a fire department, you have a police department, you don't have access to the turnpike, one should be asking why not? From a state, from a state level, does that make sense?

All right, this next slide, City Manager Pyle asked me and my staff to work with our own GIS to plot, so these would be confirmed fires over the last few years. And the yellow is 23. It may be kind of hard to see where you're sitting. Orange is 24. Red is 20, 25. So it kind of gives you an idea. And Chief, if you want to respond to anything, we fight a lot of fire here in Norman as much as anybody. And it's spread out. You can see the density here. You can see where we're proposing. Fire station 10. Fire station 11. We've got 12 out here. There's that grass fire that blew out the year and a half or so ago so 12 would be in that area here's a relocate of where we're saying to put five here's where five is out here right now so we're saying put it right here so that kind of gives you an idea of we can meet our goals sometimes and sometimes we can't and every minute that goes by we're not there we it's damage that we can't reverse so something for you to consider any questions All right, let's get down to our favorite slide of all here. Costs. Dang it, what? All right, so we highlighted Station 5. That's monies that we already know where it's going to come from, right? We programmed that. These will be all calendar years, so calendar year 2028 potentially. Station 10, we put calendar year 2028 as well. Public safety study. Said it needed to start immediately, and that was in 2025, so we got that at 28. There's the cost for those stations right there. Same floor plan, but you're dealing with more detainage, more concrete, depending on where the station is, so that's where you'll see some fluctuation in cost. We go out to calendar year 29, and that's where we propose the moving of station one of the administration and the prevention and training project that we showed you. The fleet and storage facility is also part of our prevention and training Fire Station 7 redesign. Sort of figured that the capital funds and probably all funds at this point have been tapped pretty hard. So we're skipping to 2031 for Station 11. And then we've got Station 12, 2032. And I'm going to ask Chief Roney to talk about the timelines that the actual study recommended.

I'll wait for the timeline. Okay. I'm sorry.

I didn't see your hand. Yeah, I'll hold. Chad Roney, Assistant Chief in Suppression on B-Shift. I'm sorry, on C-Shift. So on page 35 of the study that was presented in February of 2025, it dictates what these timelines are. I apologize. I stepped on the wrong one here. Give me just a second. There you are. So it talks about Station 10. It mentions it in FY25 to 27. That's obviously a range. They were trying to be understanding of the fact that they understand you don't just immediately build a fire station and staff it. Also, there's the funding aspect of it as well. So that's why there's a three-year range of time in there. The replacement of Station 5, they had recommended FY26 to 27. So we're a little bit behind on that, but again, waiting for the funding. And so that's in the process. That's part of what this presentation is about. And then they recommended immediately after the completion of Station 10 and its opening to start construction of Station 11, and they put a time frame of FY27 to FY30, which aligns very well with what Chief King has even pushed out Station 11 beyond what their recommendation is. Again, being mindful of the funding aspect of that and just the facilitation of constructing a station and trying to fulfill the requirements of the study.

Yeah, and Martinez put escalators in here, so that's already figured in to those outline years. And I want to go back to that first slide. You don't have to go back to it. But when we talk about Station 7, Station 8, and Station 9, We haven't added any suppression personnel since that time, right? And you can see our call volume has went up a lot. And I wanted to show you that because it's easy to ask, well, can you just kind of scrape together or kind of reprogram some of your people and open up a station 10 or a station 11? And we cannot. We have pushed it to the limit. The public safety study mentioned 78 people that are needed now, right, that are high priority. We have units in service, in frontline service today that aren't properly staffed, not even talking about fire stations. We talk about our ladder two with one driver on it. We talk about our rescue company, double staff with a squad, and the squad's gone. There is no one to drive that rescue when we're talking about trying to get on the turnpikes or the highway. It may not matter because we don't have anyone on it. right i don't i don't like that i don't sleep well with that thought okay that's what's lifting the big heavy rigs off your family when it's crushed underneath the semi or doing the heavy rescue okay so we have a lot of vehicles that need attention before we even start talking about 10 right so i just wanted to share that with you there is nowhere to grab people we need people

okay so first question these numbers is that just for specifically specifically excuse me 10 11 12 is that just for the building or does that include startup equipment and costs as well it's not going to include land or any of the apparatus in the station okay

$2 million for things with wheels on it and probably another million in land acquisition cost.

Sure. So just as a miscellaneous comment when it comes to Station 11, I do agree that the 11A location is probably much better, has much less gaps um as far as other comments you know hopefully it's not too much of a rant here but i i cannot express enough how much i disagree with station 11 being below station one and administration i did a ride along with station one the other day thank you for facilitating that by the way and half of the calls station one was going to was in ward six and all but one call they were heading east now could have just been a coincidence for that day i acknowledge it but to say that we're going to move a station west and increase response times to the east which is where i saw that day most of the calls going to doesn't just sit right with me. If you could also go back to the slide of proposed locations, or it was the one before the 1C aerial map. It was where the heat map is with the Yes. So on this one here, I think this is a great heat map. The problem I have with it is you have station 11 in there already. So we have a heat map for a fire station we don't have currently. So really when we're looking at current locations, everything that Northeast is currently blank with no service or outside of that five minute window.

That's correct.

And then just finally going back to that last slide with costs again, just to point out something else, if you could. understand funding is important, but when you tell me, hey, we could move a fire station for 26 million, or we could get a whole new one for about half of that, Personally, I would rather get the whole new fire station and spend that extra $12.8 million on the staffing levels that you've been advocating for, for 10, 11, as well as the buildup for all these other stations that are running at the minimum staffing requirements.

We would be happy to fall into whatever schedule the council wanted us to.

I'm just expressing, yeah, my personal opinion when it comes to 11 and where I think the funding would be better spent, you know, 26 million compared to 13 and a half plus a bunch of positions.

Certainly a lot of development heading east on Tecumseh that we can't get to today.

And then as far as like the intersection conversation, again, yeah, not to beat a dead horse, but I would also improve the response times on the turnpike if you add station 11, which is going to be pretty close to both of them. So that's it.

So 78 bodies needed right now. How many are anticipated with these?

Yeah, so each time we open a fire station, that's 15 people right there. Our minimum staff in every day is four, so that allows a relief factor. You usually have someone hurt or sick or off on vacation, so that helps address our minimum staffing at each station, each shift, three shifts of five people.

And as City Manager Powell alluded to, we have talked about a Go Bond series for buildings, which I think makes more sense. It's easier to get them built instead of waiting for them. uh to be finished and then start another and then we talked about pss t3 question being for bodies so if we were thinking about doing pss t3 are we building in the bodies for these future stations uh depending on the question council would consider in one of the conversations councils had had to do with the one eighth percent

public transportation sales tax measure that the voters approved as the county's quarter percent jail sales tax was matured. They paid off the jail. They were going to let an eighth of it expire and ask the voters to keep the other eighth for ongoing jail maintenance. At that time, Mayor Brea Clark asked the voters if they would just leave the tax rate the same and let us use the one-eighth to cover the cost of the public transit system we had just inherited from the university. The voters said yes, thankfully, and that allowed us to be fare free. With the one transit question in the works in the 2027 calendar year, that one eighth percent that the voters approved did indicate that if another funding source comes in and takes over, our one-eighth would go away at some point. Council could consider, hey, voters, could we repurpose that, not increase the tax rate, for personnel and public safety? Now, generically, we would say that's an eighth of a percent is worth about $4 million. If we spent them all on firefighters, you could do about three fire stations' worth. About 45 bodies, it'd be cutting it close. out of an eighth of a percent sales tax Firefighters fully wrapped Pension the whole shoot match about a hundred thousand here.

So we're still paying for bodies on the general fund and PSS correct potentially three Yes, ma'am Now another you know if we went from an eighth to a quarter of

get you about eight million dollars a year you could really start making a dent in the fire impact and on the police impact too because that same study said you need another 15 police officers immediately to what i was going to say the nimbleness of being able to ask the pss 23 question before a go bond question as we figure out where things go it would you could do that one first And now council has at least some real information about locations and the physical need. And then the body piece is a much easier question to answer. But when council decides there's another question to go before the voters, we want you to make sure you have all the information you need to design the question to satisfy your goals and objectives.

I guess maybe wait on the PSST-3 until after the One Transit. One Transit.

You'll know if that One Transit becomes available. But facilities-wise, our ability to jump on that phone call tomorrow with the federal government about the relocation to Station 5 and get those wheels moving, work can be done while we position ourselves for that next question.

Council Member Dixon?

I've got a few questions. I've kind of wheeled them out as we've gone along. When we talk about the count number of calls, is that just like if you send two apparatuses, that counts two or just counts one?

So when I refer to total call volume, it's every rolling apparatus for that calendar year.

Okay.

But when that apparatus rolls to go to that structure fire from station two to come in and help station one, it's not there to run on the heart attack that someone's having. Our total, that's total call volume. Reported calls, right, that's the number of reports written by one captain, which could include four or five units on that scene is in the 21-ish, a little over 21,000 for that same 2025 year.

Okay, thank you.

So I like 20, the total call volume, because it shows you how busy we are as a department.

And do we have a heat map of, like Council Member Steele was talking about... Station 1, all the addresses Station 1 goes to, all the Station 3 goes to, is there a way to provide that heat map? Chief Smith, I'll let you discuss that.

Well, what you've run into is what we were alluding to earlier, is that station one, they're all going to have their regular destinations that they go to, but should one of those be out, then somebody from a different area has to come in.

But you're just going to be addressing, you're wanting a list of calls with addresses for a given amount of time. Yeah, just to kind of see the heat maps of where...

fire's going yep it'll be a bunch of little tiny dots and a concentration of those dots

You could probably do something pretty similar, the FHIR one that we showed you from 2023 to 2025. You could probably do something like that if we got with GIS and told them what we wanted and get something like that.

I was going to say, we just recently did that for another FHIR department. They just gave us raw data, an Excel sheet of calls and response times and addresses. We made this kind of interactive map that you can go click on each address and see which calls came and how long it took to get each one. So it's pretty easy to do. have to leave in just a couple minutes any questions that we related to the work that we did as architect with them helping them put the cost estimate together anything come back to council

How did you pick the pricing to come up with these figures? I'm just curious because the particular hot water heater I know for sure has doubled from, well, it went from $15,000 to $50,000 just in a matter of five years. And we have two of them sitting in our shelter. I imagine it's going to be the same one that these firemen are going to need. And as my wife being a project estimator for... A bigger company than Norman. Did you put this out to contract companies and have them give you a rough estimate?

We took kind of a two-pronged approach. Fortunately, this is all we do is fire stations all over the place, and so we have a really good repository of recent bids, you know, 20, 30 stations in the last year of bids, really recent data. So we took that as a starting point, and then we contracted with a cost estimator in the area who we've worked with before on these types of facilities. They came up with their independent estimate, And we were kind of right in the same range. And then, of course, escalating for the future because the costs just keep going up.

But you took into effect, like, if I went and bid a house today, tomorrow walks on the price on the wire unless I bought it today. Yes, we escalated for the future bid times.

And it's wild. I mean, a few years ago, it feels like $3 million was a lot to pay for a fire station. Now it's a lot.

And then I'd like to stress with Kyle again, I'd rather see 11 to 12 built because I mean, we're 78 behind right now. And I'm going to stress with Daryl that if the highway patrol has 60 units paid for by the turnpike, then you would think the third largest city as people keep calling us could demand them to pay for 30 firemen or 45 firemen or 60 firemen to where even if we built the fire station and they paid yearly for the staff, like they do with the highway patrol. I mean, They're already running right over us. We should be pushing harder negotiations.

Any final questions? Thank you. We appreciate you.

Thank you. It's a pleasure.

Council Member Dixon finishes and Council Member Roberts.

On our ISO rating, when does that next come out? Like for our re-up to like? Soon.

Yeah, it'll do. And my hope and goal is to delay that We've got a new ladder coming later this year. We want to get it in service, and I want to get it on a year's worth of calls because I've got 25 more feet of ladder that are responding to structure fires. I'm hoping to get any amount of bodies on that as well. I've got one guy responding with it. If we can put anybody on it, that will help as well. So Chief Smith is our ISO guy, and Chief, why don't you get into that a little more?

And just we were... we were anticipating bringing some staffing recommendations to council based on where we estimated fund balance to be at the end of the current budget year. We were about a million five in the black and we talked about wherever council's comfortable. If council's comfortable with a million, we can bring you the additional bodies to staff that ladder truck. And then the wind blew on the 4th of July and we done spent that. So our recommendation would be the first thing we do is we put our reserves back in the bank. And then we bring you that staffing recommendation because we still have a whole winter season and ice storms. And when it happens the fourth day of a new fiscal year, We hope that doesn't set the tone, but we are actively pursuing those opportunities to bring you that staffing recommendation as soon as it is fiscally approved.

And we haven't received any money from the federal government.

Oh, no. We would be months and months out if we can get an appropriation.

Some folks on social media that have the impression we've been given a bunch of money to clean up stuff, and we've pocketed it.

If you're lucky.

No money to us so far.

To answer your question, the ISO, I would expect them to call us any day. In fact, I had a phone call from the State Insurance Commissioner telling us that, hey, we're up for this situation, so you should be expecting a phone call pretty soon. Now, there are some advantages in attempting to delay it. That is, we're currently going through our ISO audit, and we're trying to identify anything, anywhere, where we can grab a . . . Internally. Yeah, internally, grab a .2 or a .3 here. One of those was the ladder truck. We lost points last time because we didn't have a ladder truck in reserve. We're getting a brand-new ladder truck. As soon as it comes in, a ladder truck goes into reserve, so that gives us a little bit of points. So that's one reason. Another reason, we just switched to a brand-new nationally incident reporting system called NIRIS. It used to be INFERS, National Fire Incident Reporting System. NIRIS. That was a federal mandate. We had to move. It's not even a year old, and so we would like the chance to analyze data from that system before we ever get into the ISO stuff. It's not all fire department when we talk about ISO. There's a communications component to it. I know that they're working on backup generators, and that too counts as points. Or distributions.

huge utility side.

Water distribution is also a huge part of it. And we have worked in conjunction with them a little bit on a couple of things. So there's reasons to try to push it down the road. However, I'm not afraid if they don't let us do that. I mean, I'll try to figure out. And then on a side note, just so you know, the other day I got, and I get these calls regularly. I don't know how many times, but a gentleman called stating, I have this letter from my insurance company and they're going to charge me for an insurance nine. And I said, that's not right. I said, in Norman, it's got to be a one. and we also have a three rating for East Norman because it's beyond the distribution of the water, the water distribution. And to make a long story short, after I worked with the agent for a while, we saved him, he had a house and a business on the same plot of land, and we saved him $7,500 because it went from a nine to a three. So those are the benefits of a good ISO rating. It's also... a business recruitment type thing because, you know, when businesses come in, first of all, they want to know, are their insurance rates going to be lower? And then, two, they want to know that if something does happen, are they going to be protected by the best? And a Class 1 rating, less than 400 departments have that nationwide.

Thank you. And that matrix study, I mean, it's been a hot minute ago, and I'm still trying to parent a 15-year-old son, so... But the response times are different for, like, Norman, urban, suburban, and rural?

That's correct.

And so, I mean, I understand wanting to add more out in Ward 5, but I think you don't move to 156 than Tecumseh expecting a four-minute response. CALL FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

CERTAINLY THE NFPA RECOGNIZES THAT. IF YOU DO LIVE IN A RURAL SETTING, THERE ARE STANDARDS NATIONALLY THAT ALLOW FOR, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY, LONGER RESPONSE TIMES. SO I THINK IT IS TRUE WHEN YOU LIVE IN A RURAL SETTING, YOU PROBABLY EXPECT NOT TO HAVE AS MUCH CITY SERVICE POTENTIALLY. BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP US FROM STILL TRYING TO GET THERE AS FAST AS WE CAN. ADDING THE STATION 12 REALLY CONNECTS THINGS AROUND THE And I think it solidifies at least getting us to that eight minute, which I like out there. So that's what our goal would be.

And then to really rip the Band-Aid off, if, and I might be the only voting person here that would like to do this, but if we detached anything east of 60th, 72nd, 84th, how much of this, call it $80 million on the screen, goes away?

Let me be clear. The fire department is not condoning de-annexation. Absolutely. We're not against it. We're not for it. But I'll tell you, to answer your question, wherever you cut that off, say you cut it off at 72nd, then we're moving people from five, station five, station six, there's stations 10 and 11, right? And then you're looking at just... COST FOR STAFFING OUR CURRENT APPARATUS THAT WE HAVE IN SERVICE. SO, YES, YOU CAN MINIMIZE COST IF THE CITY DECIDED TO DO THAT.

OKAY. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME FOR NOW. THANKS.

COUNSELOR O'BRIEN?

WE HAD AN OPTION THERE FOR STATION 7 CAMPUS. I DIDN'T SEE YOUR NUMBER, SO I'M MISSING SOMETHING.

SO THIS NUMBER AND THIS NUMBER COMBINED. And this number would go up if you wanted to move the fire admin out there and create a third story.

And do a campus type facility.

But then your station one admin would go down. Yeah. Station costs would go down there. We chose keeping it at the Santa Fe and Maine if you decided to move it there because that's the concept we have today. So that's what's comfortable to us. But I'll tell you, I'm... I would be just fine moving it to the Station 7 and having that campus approach. Like I said, City of Edmond chose to do that. They have their fire admin with their training at a new training grounds. Works very, very well. And in my mind, it even gets us connected more to more of our people on a regular basis because we're having these units coming in from all over the city to train up there and we'd be right in the middle of that. So is that the preferred approach, the campus approach, or is it the downtown? We've presented you with the downtown because that's what we're doing today, and that's what we feel comfortable with. But if you decided not to do that, we can certainly move it to campus.

You're asking a bunch of laymen.

Well, what we've presented you is what we're leaning toward. If you forced us, that's what I would choose, but I'm very comfortable going to Station 7 Airport.

And then, Chief, I... And what I think I know is that if there is a lower rating related to ISO, if you have a resident or, you know, I'm just going to limit it for residents, not for commercial. I know commercial is a lot more. But there's actually an increase in rates for 3% to 6% with a drop from 1% to 2%. Is that correct?

That's what's been explained to me.

per category it's a three to six percent drop or gain depending on how you want to look at it depending on if you're moving up to a one or moving down so i'm just thinking about the numbers related to all the to be honest with you i was quoted four to eight percent i mean it's pretty significant drop and you were at 93 last evaluation 93 yes sir and the break is 90.

When I was on our first, when we got stations 8 and 9, that really made a dent. We were at 3-9 at that point. 3 in the city, 9 rural. 8 and 9 got us to the 2-5. And then we came in and just worked tremendously hard getting auto aid agreements with Oklahoma City, Moore, Little Lax, Noble, redistributing apparatus. to finding more ladders to be dedicated for fire response. We can incorporate the people coming in from other departments into our community. We got pumper tankers at stations five and six, so we got more water. So it's more water, more people, more ladders, helps with your ISO, and that's what we're able to do. It's just a study of fire response though. It doesn't count. No one's coming to help us on medical calls, car wrecks, hazmat calls, grass fires, structure fire response. That's what it's a measure of. And we did all we could do to be as good as we could there. There's not much left to scrape up. I'm trying to get the ladder in there. It's 25 feet longer than one of our ladders in service today, so you can capture that footage and we'll have a reserve. And past that, we're there's probably not a lot left to scrape up.

I'm very pleased to hear that everything you possibly do in your

It does a great job.

Reliability with that last water rate increase, huge plus to make sure when they hook up to a hydrant, it's always wet on the other side.

I just heard you mentioned about a generator and trying to buy down or do whatever we can.

Well, your emergency operations center has a generator right now. I believe it runs on diesel. I believe it has a tank of a limited capacity in which that is the emergency backup should the power go down out there. During the recent storm, I believe it went down and ran for three or four days without having to be filled up. What they're looking at, though, is creating a generator that runs on natural gas so that you don't have to have that fill up, that it's always there and theoretically will run continuously until you no longer need it.

I understand that constant having two generators related to... from you, right? And that buys down risk for the rating. Is that correct? Yes, correct. Yes. And then it's like a 0.2 or 0.1 risk buy down? Yes. I get it. So you're adding them up to all those points. That's 600,000. That's for that generator. That's the break over.

Yeah.

So that is expensive. Don't get me wrong, expensive. But compared to losing the rating, it's like we made a critical mistake. Does that make sense?

It makes sense.

We need to keep that rating.

Council Member Grant?

I'm not going to be for de-annexation, but I am curious. So saving on stations and whatnot, even if you, in a not realistic timeline, let's say we did that, we would still have to cover fires out there, right? We ended the line at 72nd if there were fires.

Mutual aid and auto aid. It would be a county issue at that point. Little Lacks Fire Department most likely or Little Lacks Community would be probably expanding in that area or Oklahoma City might expand in that area. I don't know. Somebody would. And then we would most likely continue to provide some kind of auto aid where we could get reciprocation. Probably still respond to the lake.

Okay. Just out of curiosity, how does that work in terms of reimbursement for those calls if they're in-city versus outside of city limits?

When we enter into an auto aid agreement, both parties are agreeing to eat that cost. So when they come and help us, they're paying for it. And when we go to help them, we're paying for it. But we both benefit in the long run. Now, if we go on a – we've sent teams to Texas, right, to help with flooding. We've sent people to hurricanes down in the Gulf, all the way to Florida, wherever. We'll get reimbursement on that kind of stuff. Those are different kinds of agreements that we'll enter into with the state or the federal government. Those monies will come back to us. Certain hazmat responses outside of city limits, we're part of regional responses when it comes to that. We can get reimbursement for that kind of stuff. We're just talking local on structure fire responses just in our surrounding communities that butt up to Norman. We help each other and we're both eating that cost. And then, but if it turns into a huge, like it turns into a grass fire and we're helping, I mean, then we're going to apply. We recently got FMAG approval from the fire several years ago. So we'll get, we applied for that. It was a lot of effort by our staff and we'll get some overtime. We'll get some equipment, that kind of stuff coming back to us. So, but that, that goes back into a grass fire when we're just talking structure fires ISO.

On our current automatic aid agreements, we built it in so that we did a benefit-risk analysis to figure out, okay, how many calls does this jurisdiction have, how many do we have, so that we didn't create a lopsided situation where we go and help them 150 times in a year and they help us three times a year. We also built in the flexibility to dissolve the agreement for any reason at any time. So if it ended up being a situation where we were, you know, shelling out the bucks and eating all the cost and they were not reciprocating in any way, there is a way out of that agreement.

How that gets measured is where the line is drawn how far into a neighboring agency will go and how far into Norman they'll go. So those lines get adjusted so there's

equilibrium between how much help we provide and how much help we get and then that those two lines go into our iso calculations and then uh so the reason i also bring it up because uh councilmember kirby had been talking about the ota and if we were getting stuck with stuff how to best position ourselves so we are talking to them next tuesday uh they can be here on the 11th with at

Council's discretion. If there is consensus, they'll be here. I'm seeing heads nodding yes.

I have questions.

Yes.

Okay, yeah. I have questions about responses and everything for them.

And that conversation that Councilmember Dixon identified to establish a model where we do seek reimbursement, it would be universally applied. There are third-party billing entities, and we would send the call volume, the response file to. We know who the insured drivers are in an accident or a big rig or anything like that. Usually, PDs gather that kind of information from the actual wreck and submit the cost incurred to those insured drivers, and they figure out who's at fault, and that's whose insurance gets the bill at the end of the day. So it would be the same if it was on the turnpike. There would be an at-fault party, and that would be an insurance company we'd be going after. We wouldn't want to try to learn that insurance billing system. We'd have to hire a lot of bodies and all that kind of stuff. We would be looking for a third-party contractor. That model exists in Oklahoma today.

Great.

Yeah, so going back to Zari, the administration building, if I remember correctly, the report actually says that the building is excellent and can last 15 years as long as it doesn't get too crowded in there is essentially what it said. So how is like space in the building? You know, we're talking about like adding all these positions and hiring on, I guess, how many more bodies could you fit in the current administration building before it would have to be renovators? None?

Yeah.

And then I guess, so if we did build 10, 11, and maybe even 12 before, you know, station line administration, I guess when you build these stations, obviously you got to staff them, but do you also have to add administration positions to manage those?

That would be nice, yeah. Because if you're dealing with people that are managing our payroll, our overtime, all of those functions just continue to get piled up. That was identified in the study that we need to add some help there.

Chief Smith identified something a second ago, and we deal with this on a constant basis. In the new system, data acquisition in our new system is a huge... LIFT RIGHT NOW.

LEARNING CURVE.

LEARNING CURVE AND GETTING THAT DATA. BUT IT'S ALSO A VERY IMPORTANT COMPONENT IN THE ISO STUFF AND A LOT OF OTHER STUFF THAT WE DO. THAT WAS IT. THANK YOU.

I MEAN, ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, TOO, WITH FIRE STATION ONE, WE KNOW THAT IT'S THE BUSIEST ONE BY FAR. IT'S ALSO THE OLDEST ONE AND IT'S VERY UNDERSIZED FOR THE DEMAND AND IT'S WAY OUTDATED. I guess in one scenario we could build a new fire station one and admin with that footprint on the existing location.

You can, yes.

Because we own half that block. We could put admin in a temporary location and tear down the existing admin and build a new fire station one and admin there. You could. But then we'd probably have to tear down fire station one, the existing one.

You just have to relocate those units to another station and

Well, meaning that there was some, there has been some discussion about, you know, if we build a new fire station, one, because of its historical significance, perhaps. 60s architecture is not my favorite. But it is an architectural style. And ideas about, you know, Firehouse Arts Center used to be a fire station. Well, if we build a new fire station, one. ideas for how that existing building could be repurposed for community uses. But if we were to rebuild the facilities there, we would probably need to tear down that structure too, I would imagine. And so that is a priority, and I agree with Council Member Steele too, that I mean, really, the whole list is a priority. It all needs to be done. And I think that's why you're bringing all these forward to us. But if we didn't do the admin with Fire Station 1, and what you're saying is that admin needs to be with either Fire Station 1 or at Station 7. That's correct. But it needs to be attached to somebody. That's correct. And so if we don't do it, it's fire station one, then that cost goes down, but then the cost of the prevention and training goes up.

That's right.

By that same potential.

And I don't know, you know, if you purchase that land next to it, you could kind of build out versus up. There's probably some savings there, but you've got to buy the land. So I don't, you know, but there may be a little bit of savings there.

And then to kind of to Council Member Steele's question about, you know, in the recommendation, like, given the gaps or if Fire Station 1 is going east more often or whatever it may be, maybe it was just that, who knows, but why would they, I mean, what was the thought behind this order of how to go about it, I guess? Why Station 1 and admin would come before Station 11 and 12?

Well, five is kind of obvious. It was next. Ten, the public safety study from last year just really identified that as needs to get going as soon as you can. Listening to you guys in our previous meeting, there seemed to be some desire maybe to re-envision where we currently are at 415 East Main and 411 East Main and move us. So we put it there. Nothing in stone on any of this. That can be moved down here. 11 can go right here. 12 can go right here. And we can do it. I would say that the Our training center, though, we really need to – I mean, my goodness, you were trying to share one shower bay with the guys working at that station with your recruits, and it's just – it's hard. You know, we need to provide a better place to get our new people trained.

And Chief, Station 1, it's the busiest station, we think, in the state of Oklahoma, arguably. And it's the oldest, so it's that 60s architecture when – The white shirt guy said, we need a new ladder truck. They had to shop long and hard to find a new ladder truck that would fit in the building. So what you'll see when that truck shows up, and we'll bring it to the parking lot. Yeah, it's got the swivel for the ladder. It's called a mid-mount. So the ladder that's there now, the swivel part sitting over the rear end of the truck, and it's... The new version won't fit in the bay. So they had to go to a mid mount that sits lower so they could clear the garage door coming in. So the challenge of station one is physical obsolescence of a building. And we're going to have to add a second engine company somewhere in there to help keep up with that call volume. But not a greater priority. than station 10 or 11 or 12. And that is the luxury council has is it is your priorities that count.

I mean, a five-year timeline, pretty ambitious to do all of them in five years. It is. 28 to 2032. You know, I say ambitious as in it'd be great to get them all, to be able to get all of them. And we can add those escalators and put them out.

We just, for something to show you today, cost out to their, you know, but... It's going to be your decision what gets built and when it gets built.

Yeah, I'll just give my final thoughts. Yeah, just on this list, once again, I would like to see Station 11 above Station 1, but below the prevention and training. Thought being, again, just the cost alone. Also, if it's built, it would take some pressure off Station 1, just from, again, what I saw in my very limited ride along. And also, I completely understand that Station 1 is old. It was built in the 60s, but at least that area has one.

The other thing I wanted to ask about too was, and this total was about 91 million for that in my estimate, and then the recommendations in the study about not new stations but renovations of existing ones that's not included in this so correct station one was listed as a redo redo but the uh fire station two and all the others that uh may need some attention as well may not need to be reconstructed but need uh renovations not part of this but is also we have a cost for that estimated too for renovations of those stations and things

can certainly work on that and we know that two is a two-story two company station so it's going to be similar to what we're saying one would be without the admin right so it's it's going to be more than these less than that but it's in that in that ballpark

and a pressing need to replace it. It's not a renovation, is what you're saying?

It was a replacement, I believe. It wasn't chief.

Station two is listed as redoing it, rebuilding it, raising it, and rebuilding it. One or two were total replacements. Five was a relocation.

Okay. I think a total cost of recommended replacements and renovations of just what is the total cost of the fire needs? And so we can then take that all into consideration and figure out what Do we want to put it all in front of voters and say, this is what the fire department needs entirely, or do we need to pare it down and prioritize? But I think that would be helpful because I think, like the school does where they say, we're going to touch every school property with this bond. And we're going to touch every fire station. And pay it off in seven years. Yeah. So I think that would be helpful, and then council can Take this as the main priority, but also If we're gonna be look asking voters for funding and funding to do that stuff would seem appropriate to to make sure that's in there and then One of my questions too is about the increased calls When did we start Maybe well, but where we were able to respond to every medical call the back of the mid 90s mid 90s, so And so that's where all of our fire stations are staffed with people who are certified to be able to respond the same as a paramedic.

To work on the Norman Fire Department, you must be at a minimum an EMT basic. There's three levels, basic, intermediate, and paramedic. And I believe, right, all of our people are at least a basic, and then we have something in the mid-20s as far as intermediates and probably another 25 or so paramedics. Those people are strategically placed throughout the community at stations. And as Chief Chester said, our advanced protocol program You're going to see those guys out at five and six or areas where MSTAT has trouble getting there where they can give those drugs that are needed for seizures, heart attacks, cardiac type events, those kind of things, and use a heart monitor. So we strategically put those people where they can be the most good in the community.

And then thinking about causes of increased calls, population growth, of course, but it would seem like there might be less fires now than there were 20 or 30 years ago with better code and fire suppression and things like that, but maybe not.

It ebbs and flows. We've seen a downtrend, but as you can see in the slide before this one, still a lot. Fire rescues on the side of our trucks, right?

And we've had conversation about the older things tend to burn down more readily than the newer things. So you look at the core, and that's our oldest part of town, and that's got the highest concentration of fire calls.

And then I asked about the future of the current investigation center, that part of the police part. And then... future of the current location if we did build a new fire station one on Santa Fe, Maine, and that opens up city-owned land to either sell it for development or incentivize residential development or affordable housing. whatever is one of the opens that up. And then that response to the east side of the tracks was one of my questions. I already got a question from Wallace Collins about moving over here, delaying response to the other side. You guys are saying there's a gap on this side right now between station two and one.

And that same delay is going the other way. So you're just kind of flipping your problems.

So that's where I think it gets into that. GRIFFIN NEWTON GRIFFIN NEIGHBORHOOD IS PROBABLY GOING TO PLAN FOR A FUTURE DOWNTOWN STATION THERE BUT UM AND THEN THE CENTER CITY FUNDS IF THAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE FOR STATION ONE UM THE CURRENT ONE OKAY I THINK Okay, I think that's the question. I think everything I had got answered.

So with Catherine over here taking notes about East Main TIF, Griffin TIF, to make sure we include that type of infrastructure in the proposed uses, that's advantageous at this point in the conversation as she works on those two TIF projects to bring back to you. So it's just, yeah, what did you think about you were going to build at the time the question was posed?

Council Member Kirby.

I just had a couple questions addressing Mr. Dixon since he didn't live in Norman when the annexation actually happens. A lot of people bought out there pre a bunch of stop signs and the expectation to have firemen to take away to fire stations like that. Wouldn't it be, instead of putting people's lives at risk, you know, like my dad, since y'all just saved him out at station number six earlier this year with your EMT service, have y'all ever considered satellite locations instead of full-blown, you know, $12 million stations, just a brush popper? two brush hoppers whatever and then once they get to the situation they can call and say if they need a fire yeah big engine i mean have we have we ever considered just maybe downsizing the size of the station to make sure we had the emergency services out there that we need certainly uh we we would uh be happy to attend any meetings where like hey this is the budget this is all we can afford what can we do you know we we're very good at getting creative back in the

Several decades ago when I first hired one, I'd hear old timers talking when we were expanding out east, there was some guy's barn they rode out of in a brush bumper. They converted a barn and had some sleeping quarters, so they've done that. With today's fire service though and the issues we're facing, and you you're better off to get a full fire company out there that can address your structure fire needs, your grass fire needs, your EMS needs. If we need to try to scale down the cost of the building, we'll look at that. But you really need four people out there. We work as a team, and all of our training today is done with that four-man approach, and it works on your medical calls. It's not just, you know, we can run, in that rural area, three people on some medical calls, but you start... reducing what we can do, and it affects every aspect of what we're trying to do.

Well, and if you downscale, say, 70,000 acres worth of land out of the 112,000, how much in sales tax is that going to impact your fire stations? I mean, even if you move in, because we do have a lot more neighborhoods out there than we did, and we are growing constantly, not to mention the casino and commercial coming out there, but y'all operate on sales. Don't the sales tax come

For the fireman budget?

So if you cut off 80,000 acres of land, you would lose a whole lot of sales taxes. I mean, because I know I don't like driving west side of Norman, so I have Amazon or Walmart or Home Depot deliver stuff to my property all the time. I don't want to hook them onto a trailer, so I put in a $2,000 order to Home Depot. Where does that sales tax go? Does that go to Home Depot or does that go to Ward 5?

It goes to the general fund from which police and fire, parks and rec...

So to... To cut off the whole area, you would technically also cut off part of the fireman's budget that's already short? Potentially so. Okay. Thank you.

I think in this coupled with recommendations from the police department that will be coming forward soon, that will help us look at what a total public safety package, whether it's public safety sales tax dependent or if it's a bond of some kind. But just like a rough $150 million bond based off of the recent shelter bond for 20 years would be about $14 a month for your average normal home value.

Do police adequate?

new police department all that depending on what because I know I don't know what to expect with the police one we're guessing 35 million we're not needing to build four police departments so you know than just a new building with training facility and other stuff too but just a rough estimate of like 150 based off of that number right there and then renovation costs of other things so but that's kind of what might be looking at thinking about for combining police and fire into some kind of bond package the first two PSSTs have been sales tax funded and had to and put projects off, which has caused the cost of them. I think the original budget for Fire Station 5 was $6 million, $5 million, $6 million. Now it's potentially $12. And so that's a question to think about. And with the One Transit, the question there will be if One Transit does pass in Norman, Edmond, OKC as a whole, And then the question about our existing transit tax sunsetting. So then we ask voters, do we want them to repurpose that tax to public safety purposes or keep it and do even more transit than what the one transit thing might provide for us? So we could either have an even more enhanced transit system, I guess, by an eighth of a percent so there'll be several options for us to consider with that but I I would guess that addressing the staffing and capital needs of the police and fire is going to take a bond and public safety sales tax probably in some form of both I would imagine to get who can't use bond funds for people obviously so and I think that would be the most THE MOST EFFECTIVE, FASTEST WAY TO GET THESE PROJECTS DONE, TOO, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO WAIT FOR THE SALES TAX TO GO. SO PROS AND CONS OF BOTH THOSE THINGS, BUT I THINK EVERYONE PRETTY MUCH AGREES THAT WE WANT TO PURSUE GETTING THESE THINGS DONE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND THIS COUNCIL KNOWS, WE STARTED AN ADULT WELLNESS AND EDUCATION Facility with a budget of zero and pretty amazing facility with a budget of zero. So we're not afraid of what we're facing. We're happy to start marching down that road with council, and we'll eat that elephant one bite at a time, too.

Council Member? Just for clarity, can a GO bond pay for water trucks and equipment and land? Yes, ma'am. So that's a huge chunk if you put it on a GO bond.

Okay, so next steps from here, what can we expect? Well, what we'll do, we'll jump on the call with the feds for the relocation of Station 5, get that underway. As far as we think, we'll bring you a similar presentation from the police department about location for new police HQ what that might look like where that might go generically what that sticker price looks like that may free up great opportunities for you here on this piece of property or it could be built on this piece of property lots of options you'll have with that cost estimate we think you'll have the whole public safety infrastructure demand and then we can begin that conversation about when how much do you do it in one big chunk do you do it in smaller chunks Pick it off. So we'll have those conversations I did see consensus that we would have Joey Kelly invited to the August 11th pre-council conference that would start at 5 p.m 5 p.m and I I want to just make sure there is consensus for us to start the conversation about our ability to bill those drivers that cause accidents that cost the City of Norman taxpayers for that response. We're happy to bring what that program looks like back to you for your consideration.

Okay. So fire station five, priority, get that one as soon as possible. Absolutely. And then I would say land discussions with any property that we need to build any of this stuff to get it going as soon as possible with all of them.

So it doesn't wind up being a hotel that we've got to go and start by afterwards.

Start talking to the church right now. Start talking to whoever owns property for station 12 and 11 and 10. Oh, 10, I guess, would be our own properties. Conversation is going people and so we can be ready to go Okay, and then I guess come back to council when the police department's ready and then if there's anything else from the fire department that we need to Take into consideration. Okay. Any other questions from anybody else? Okay. Thank you guys. I appreciate your update your work on this and look forward to To working on getting it all done. Okay, this meeting is adjourned. Thank