City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening and welcome to the City Council, Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority, Norman Parking and Transit Authority meeting of July 28th, 2026. Madam Clerk, will you call the roll?

Councilmember Ghandisberry.

Here.

Councilmember Deck. Here. Councilmember Bruce. Here. Councilmember Grant. Present. Councilmember Kirby. Here. Councilmember Steele.

Here.

Councilmember Blodgett. Here. Councilmember Dixon. Here. Mayor Holman.

Here. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Okay. Proclamations. A proclamation proclaiming August 7th, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the city of Norman. I'll entertain a motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation. The motion on the floor is to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation. Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast in the motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation passes unanimously.

And I'll recognize Commander Joe Gill with the American Legion Post 88 to join me at the podium and accept the proclamation. And Joe is the new commander of the Norman Legion. Post 88. Post 88, as of this week, today, or as so? July 1st. As July 1st. Commander Ernie Martin, for 14 years, served in that role. And since, not moved on, he's still involved, I'm sure, but let someone else take over that post for the current, and I really appreciate you doing that, and for you being here tonight to accept this. Thank you, sir. a proclamation of the Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming August 7th, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the City of Norman, whereas the Purple Heart is the oldest military decoration still presented to the U.S. service members. First established by General George Washington in 1782, as the badge of military merit and later revived as the Purple Heart in 1932 by General Douglas MacArthur in honor of George Washington's bicentennial birthday. And whereas the Purple Heart is awarded to members of the United States Armed Forces who have been wounded or killed in combat, recognizing their bravery, sacrifice, and dedication to the ideals of freedom and democracy. And whereas Purple Heart Day observed annually on August 7th, offers a solemn opportunity for all Americans to honor the courageous men and women who have received this distinction and to acknowledge the profound debt of gratitude owed to them. And whereas we recognize the service and sacrifice of these individuals not only on the battlefield, but also in the lives they continue to lead as patriots, community leaders and role models of resilience and courage and whereas the city of norman stands united in expressing our deepest respect and unwavering support for all purple heart recipients and their families now therefore i mayor of the city of norman oklahoma do hereby proclaim august 7th 2026 as purple heart day in the city of norman and encourage all citizens to honor our nation's Purple Heart recipients by recognizing their sacrifice and service to our country. Passed and approved this 28th day of July, 2026.

And if you'd like to say a few words, you're welcome to.

Your Honor, thank you, and council members, and all of you who attended today. I'm very fortunate that I did not receive one of these awards. I served in Vietnam. Agent Orange killed me over there. I have not died yet. Many of us were killed by Agent Orange, and we are slowly dying. We did not get a Purple Heart for this. We're being taken care of by the Veterans Affairs, and we are thankful for that. For many servicemen and women throughout the years that were given this award, we're thankful for it because they served. Some men and women received it multiple times because they were wounded several times. And I saw times where men, they were barely scratched and wounded, they said, I need a Purple Heart. And they got it because they were hurt in combat. But at the same time, we didn't want to belittle or diminish this award. And on behalf of the city, we thank you for proclaiming this day in August, honoring all of the men and women who have received this award over the years since George Washington established this award many, many years ago. On the medal, it has his image. And men that received it and women wear it proudly. And like I say, I never got it. And I'm glad I didn't. I came home. The wounds I carried are up here or in my heart. But I'm okay. I came home. And I wondered why did I come home and others did not. We looked back and we realized in Vietnam, over 53,000 men and women did not come home. But yet today, we are still losing men and women because of Agent Orange. So when you see a veteran walking down the street wearing a hat, says Vietnam veteran, Don't just say thank you for your service. Say welcome home, because we were not welcomed home. Make up for what happened to us back in 68, 69, and 72. Thank us. Say welcome home. Thank you all so much for this award. We appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Commander Gill. And I would just recognize a friend of mine, Kenneth Burbank, a Purple Heart recipient who lived most of his life here in Norman and would come down to Friendly Market and talk about his experiences and things like that. And he just passed away last March, about a year ago. good friend of mine who Purple Heart recipient and I always appreciated hearing his stories and his perspective about what it was like in his life so and agent orange was something he specifically mentioned that had caused health issues for him his entire life since then so thank you very much for being here and accepting that on to council announcements and we'll start at Ward one

I guess after that there's nothing to say except Joe welcome home. That's all I got.

Thank you were too.

I would like to thank the city's communication department and some of the other staff for keeping the storm debris updates on the city website that is something that my word in particular has been asking me a lot about and so I appreciate the ever to claim that as well as the ever still going into the cleanup itself.

It's it's like to do that do you know same and appreciate the text the calls the e-mails in person conversations on you know host of things in a ranging from video cameras flock cameras to storm debris pick up to stormwater management to almost shelter city shelter the city budget and I mean this goes on and on I'm not doing I'm sure all my peers here get the same e-mails or so emails every week and I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you word for good evening word for in city of Norman. I would like to echo a thanks to city staff, especially on the debris cleanup. I believe we'll be getting our state funding since we're spending double what we thought and then maybe we might get some FEMA because it looks like between us and Tulsa we might have hit that threshold as well. On a happier note, on August 8th, you can still buy your tickets for Taste of Downtown. Go to DowntownNorman.com forward slash Taste of Downtown. The tickets are $35 for a passport, and you'll get to try all kinds of stuff. It is 21 plus because there are some... breweries and others associated with the event, but you're looking at Apple Tree Chocolate, Big Brewing, Custard Factory, Donuttery, which is new, Juliet Oyster Bar and Steakhouse, slightly newer, Legally Brewed, The Local, Magic Masala, also new, Main Street Trading Post, also new, Prohibition Lounge, Scratch, Sooner Daiquiri, The Standard, and Yellow Dog Coffee. So I hope to see some of you out there for that event. Thank you.

Thank you. Ward 5?

No new announcements. Ward 6? No announcements.

Thank you. Ward 7?

No announcements at this time.

Thank you. Ward 8?

No announcements at this time.

Okay. Just mention Art Walk also this Friday in downtown Norman, I believe. Wait, no, next Friday. And then Taste of Norman also on the 8th, as Council Member Grant mentioned. Getting an opportunity to try out a bunch of different restaurants and places in downtown Norman. For a price of one ticket, I think it's a pretty good deal. Also, the storm debris cleanup updates, Several of us are sharing them with our wards and our social medias and things like that as soon as we are getting them from city staff. And I encourage everybody to follow the City of Norman's Facebook, Instagram, and email list, mailing list, for those updates as they happen about anything that changes with the cleanup process questions about your neighborhood or your street things like that and you can definitely reach out to any of us directly if you feel the need to but definitely follow those pages for regular updates on what's going on and links to all the different information sheets and forms that you might need to fill out if you've potentially and all sorts of stuff like that. But it is ongoing and as I've just tried to remind folks, Norman does cover 200 square miles of city limits. We're the 50th largest city in the United States in land area and I've often mentioned as a comparison, Norman and Tulsa are about the same size in land area. Tulsa has 400,000 people and we have 130 or so. And there was a lot of significant damage, having 100 mile an hour or so winds in the middle of the summer, and all the trees have all their leaves and everything still, so significant damage in many neighborhoods, on lots of streets, and I know it's frustrating, and the expectation that everything gets picked up quickly, but I was reminded by city staff that the last big storm event we had was about a three month long cleanup process before it was all said and done. for an ice storm a few years ago. So I just encourage people to continue being patient. Check out the websites and our social media for continued updates as they happen and we will get it all cleaned up and nobody will be left out or forgotten about in the city before it's done. and then also just wanted to extend my appreciation to the council and city staff for the Annual retreat that we had this weekend and going over different priorities and issues as councilmember Bruce Listed a few of them out all issues that many of us are all aware of in Norman regarding stormwater and housing affordability and homelessness and development and the library and the arena and the turnpike and economic development policy and all sorts of things like that were discussed and just appreciate everybody's willingness to be open about different ideas and I assure everybody out there listening that this council is very focused on working to bring solutions to issues that we all know are facing the city of Norman and all of you and your neighborhoods and your businesses and so they affect all of us too so again just appreciate that and all the work that goes into it and I'm looking forward to this next year of working together and trying to tackle these big issues so with that I think we will move on to the consent docket this item is placed on the agenda so that the City Council by unanimous consent can designate those routine that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion if any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members that item will be heard in regular order staff recommends item 2 through 17 be placed on the consent docket I'll entertain a motion to place items 2 through 17 on the consent docket motion second The motion on the floor is to place items two through 17 on the consent docket. Council members, you may cast your vote.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to place items two through 17 on the consent docket passes unanimously.

We'll entertain a motion to approve the consent docket. Motion to approve. Second. The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket. Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast and the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously.

All right, on to the non-consent docket. Item number 18 is an ordinance amending section 36-201 of the Code of the City of Norman so as to adopt a zoning designation for a tract of land located at the southeast corner of Reed Avenue and Eufaula Street and place in a simple planned unit development. I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading, section by section.

Motion to adopt. Second.

And I'll recognize Assistant City Attorney Anthony Purinton to make a presentation.

Thank you, Council. I'm here to discuss the simple planned unit development for what we're calling the Norman Housing Hub, which is a city development, which is something that's not very common, is for a city development to come in front of the city for zoning. So we're going to be talking a little bit about that tonight and how that interacts with the approval process. Just to kind of provide some overall context to this discussion, again, we're talking about the zoning for the proposed shelter location tonight. That's in the form of a simple planned unit development. And I kind of want to talk at this point about what this presentation is not. So in a SPUD narrative, we're talking about zoning classification, right? So what we're going to be talking about tonight is the general use of the property, the design criteria to be placed upon the property, spacing requirements, fencing requirements, things of that nature, mostly dealing with the built environment and how it should interact with the neighboring uses and the neighboring properties surrounding it. What we are not talking about tonight is, I think, the operation, the day-to-day specifics of the property. That deserves its own conversation at a later time. But tonight we are talking about the zoning coming in front of you for approval, which in the most part for a SPUD is contained within the SPUD narrative of that zoning designation, which contains the zoning criteria and zoning restrictions that pertain to that parcel. And so that is the guiding document that we're going to be considering tonight and that is in front of you. So I want to pay close attention to things that are contained within that SPUD narrative because that is the controlling language and that is what you're deciding on. So things outside of the SPUD narrative, you know, aren't necessarily relevant. or can become irrelevant because, again, I just want to focus what the item is, which is the spud narrative and the spud ordinance. So with that being said, I think That's kind of how this presentation is laid out, which is going through that SPUD narrative, explaining one, the listed uses, the design and the development standards that are contained within that SPUD document, and then finally I'm gonna hand it off to FSB, the architects who helped with the site plan and the conceptual designs and the SPUD narrative itself in order to give those conceptual renderings to you so that you have an idea of what a potential development with those constraints in place could look like and how they could be and kind of discuss the intentionality in creating the SPUD document and the SPUD narrative and why some of those decisions were made when we put this together. So with that in mind. Let's go and talk about a little bit of background, give some context to where we're at. I'm sure all of you know that this subject tract is located along Reed, right south of Maine. It's going to be south of Food and Shelter to the north there. And we're contained, if you notice that big white area, that is all Oklahoma State Department of Mental Land. Is currently owned by them. That is why it's white because it is not zoned The current property the subject tract is not zoned because we bought it from the department. So now it needs a zoning Designation, which is why we're here tonight In the in character areas this one will be considered the core Norman and for the aim future land use it was designated as mixed-use development and The existing land use again kind of it's there really is no current zoning on the property or anything like that This is vacant land currently There is if you notice it looks like a road. There is no improved road on there. It's more of just a Pathway that I think has been worn down over the years conveniently to travel across the state property and And there's an aerial. What you'll see, the largest geographical element of the site, which is why it's a triangular parcel, is Bishop Creek that runs along the property's border, which creates a natural barrier as well as the...

Excuse me, we can't have any interruptions.

And here's a photo looking down Reed, south of Reed. It's lined to the... Immediately adjacent to the property. We also have our two and so there are some houses along Reid across the street And Reid is kind of a smaller Street than normal because of the way it was originally platted so here's where we get into the list of uses. And so every SPED narrative will contain its own list of uses that controls what that property can be used for moving forward. Keep in mind, we kind of already have that governing documents because we're going to be, if this is the proposed site and the accepted site for the city's bonded, voted on homeless facility, homeless utility, then in that case, we already kind of had those guiding documents that limit how we utilize those funds. But this zoning designation kind of mirrors that. And so it is a pretty general description of use. There's only really one. It would be a respite and unhoused overnight and emergency sheltering service. And that's what could be used for the property. What that means is there are facilities supporting sheltering services that could include laundry, storage, multi-use space, dog kennel and dog run, and then of course staff, operator, and community office areas for outreach and related services. You know use of the property as community garden and or open spaces and then of course, you know the catch-all community facility and multi-use spaces compatible with sheltering services essentially the property will you be used for Overnight shelter right and those sheltering services that are compatible with that use very simple very straightforward and I think pretty much sets out what the property is going to be used for. Again, attached, I've also kind of shown what that could look like. Again, this isn't contained within the SPUD narrative, but those kinds of uses, I think, inform some of the conceptual designs that have been given to council and the layouts inside of them. And I think that a lot of this was contained in a lot of what council's feedback was to the base level of what this property will be used for. So again, I want to reiterate that the SPUD narrative and a lot of what is contained in the SPUD, that is designed for one, setting out what the general use of the property is. And we think that that use description is consistent with the voter approved general purpose, which it was voted on. And then, which again, doesn't necessarily mean, the proposition didn't include the specific area in which we would put it, but the use I think more so. And then of course, general design criteria and standards for the development itself, so. Again, the SPUD narrative is not designed to have specific operational requirements or any activities, I think, which is important to note, outside the subject parcel. This is contained specifically to the parcel in question, and it would be odd to put anything for the surrounding neighborhood or anything like that within this. not to say we can't do that or we can't talk about you know how we for example utilize cbdg money as we have talked about previously to like close an alley behind the houses on reed so again we're focused only on the subject parcel and the use and design criteria restrictions on that parcel so again not saying that operational constraints and anything like that is not worth a discussion. That's just not what we're here for and that's not the item that is presented in front of you today. Those are more appropriate to contain in operational documents such as a contract for operation, which is not, again, what is in front of council tonight because we are not at that level, right? We need to zone the property. And then at a later date, we will have the discussions, I think, to a high degree of what that operation will look like and the operational day to day and kind of again, all of that will be consistent with the use generally of an overnight shelter. The reason I think that is more appropriate to place all of those operational constraints within more operational documents and contracts is because it provides one, greater oversight as council, as the owner to control the use of the property, which again, how often have you guys had someone who comes up to city council, gives a presentation and says, we were going to use it in X, Y, and Z manner, none of that's contained in the SPUD narrative, right? You guys now in a way it's better because we have the power as the owner to use those operational constraints and go further in order to ensure that the property is used consistent with the city's goals and objectives, but that is not through zoning it is through contractual documents and operation agreements so but it also creates flexibility in terms of federal funding state and regulation and changes in those operational funding has to change with the times and also with the current landscape of federal regulations state regulations which change from year to year right so uh it's important that we don't box ourselves in a corner and then later a year later federal regulations change and the money that we counted on to use for that operation now we're constrained by the zoning so and then also of course i think that it gives a lot a lot of flexibility to address neighborhood concerns as not only the shelter comes into its own, but also as the community around it and the neighborhood around it develops and those needs change. And again, it allows us to adapt with the community as we grow with it. Again, now we kind of get into, I think, the nitty-gritty of what the SPUD narrative really does, which is the development plan and the criteria and the design criteria. So in your packet, you'll have a better, I think, both the green space exhibit and the site plan, but it kind of lays it out. There are two buildings, two approaches, a detention area, and that's the majority of what you'll see. just a general highlight of what some of those design specifications are. It's a one story building, max one story, max of 40 foot roof pitch. We had 15 foot building setbacks that were, you know, in the zoning document. saying that high-quality exterior materials, such as, there's a long list, but masonry, stone, metal panels, will be used to avoid an industrial appearance in order to be more cohesive with the surrounding neighborhood. There will be, of course, rollout dumpsters with an onsite exterior enclosures, which you can find on the site plan. There is one primary interest sign, no more than 75 square feet, all wall signage, can't wall signage can be used, but if it is used, it has to be facing away from Reid. So it would be, you know, for towards the parking lot. And you'll notice that the parking lot is towards the back, as you've, I think, been briefed on several times. It's a very intentional design decision. And we're also there's going to be sidewalks on Reid. again two points of ingress and egress so that emergency personnel and then of course our sanitation drivers can easily access and leave the facility you know important to note that there will be landscape in front of it to active screening as well as the building itself which acts as a natural barrier and then the lighting for the property will be consistent with the commercial outdoor lighting standards that the city has already adopted so Protests, so of course as a spud there's a protest process Currently, I think we said at 5.6 protest within the notification area. You'll see the parcels identified that did Submit a protest to the city. I think you know and those were all sent out I think by us mail prior to pre-development And then again, that's kind of a larger view of the property site map where you can kind of see the layout of the buildings, the setbacks, and everything like that, again, included in your agenda packet. And at this point, I think I'm going to hand it over to Sean Lorg with FSB to kind of go over again. I think you guys have had this presentation once or twice. But again, I think just to hit on the conceptual drawings and the drawings, why some of these decisions were made and how they're reflected in the conceptual drawings based off of the criteria set in that SPUD narrative.

good evening I'm Sean Lord with FSB and let's just start with talking about the the site some of the stuff that has been discussed already was was the intentionality of the siding and having and having it as a barrier between the the read the read Street in the the neighboring neighborhood and Utilizing the building as that right it has a it's a single sloped pre-engineered metal building so it's about the most cost-effective way to to build anything so we've been judicious from that side of it nor understanding of that we want to be cognizant of the the funds that are spent and But the building itself is a single slope, and the lower slope will go towards the street. And so on Reed Avenue, the lower slope, that comes down. And so the idea there is to reduce the scale of the building, to make it less industrial. The building is more of an industrial application, I'll say. That type is what you would see in a pre-engineered metal building is what you're going to see in industrial areas. However, the treatments that we've applied to it are very much residential in feel and shape and utilizing that backside and having it sloped towards the street, reducing the scale, is an architectural idea that allows us to have some sensitivity towards that. As mentioned as well, on the east side of the property there that faces Reed Avenue, you'll have extensive Landscaping and so a very sensitive aesthetic on that side of the street. I would say on that on the street facing Elevation is is very sensitive to to the aesthetic and what what people will be looking at and so You know trying to be Have in mind that you know, this is this is going essentially right across the street from a from an active neighborhood. So That's the intention The intake side when we're looking at the site is is on the east side of the east side of the building so all intake for the shelter would be on that side the Kind of loop road that you see is a code requirement for fire So that's the essentially a fire lane that goes all the way around the building and gives them just us fire access allows the building to be properly served by the by the fire department and Some other side amenities and things we've drawn some things in a courtyard that split the two buildings At this point that's you know, those things are kind of up for debate what actually ends up in there But the the idea again is a programmatic idea that allows for some outdoor activity within that space You know these these These people that we're serving with this, that will be served by this are in a lot of pain. They're hurting. And so we're trying to give them some options, some help. I think that's the way to address this is ultimately the building gives us that opportunity as a community to be able to hopefully change the direction here. I think that that's why this is being discussed. um you want to flip can we oh i'm sorry this is just a blow-up view of the same thing again there's there's uh you know we've got we've got uh code required parking we've got the you know our dumpsters are all on the back side as well so all the service components will be on the east side of the property there the There's no throughput in the courtyard area. That's actually all fenced off, so that's enclosed. And so once you're actually in the building, you've been intake, you've gone through the intake process, you're in the compound. And so you're not coming through that facade in any way, shape, or form. So everything releases back to the east. So that facade, again, they will have, we've been told, that the operators, and this could be a discussion as well, more of an operational thing we'll just touch on, but security cameras will be completely around the entire site. So they'll watch it, they'll monitor it, they'll make sure that it's being utilized the way it's intended to be utilized. This is kind of an aerial shot. Again, you can kind of see some of the aesthetic sensitivities that have been put into this. And so this shows the elevated component there with the rock is actually the one closest to us is a dog run. And so there's a dog run where you can let your dogs, because that's a part of this idea as well. Now, the dogs will not be let out into a yard and throw a fit, they will be taken out to do their business, run around, maybe throw a ball, and then get back in. And so it's not just a free-for-all for that. That certainly will be managed. But what you can see, though, from this image, again, is an aesthetic sensitivity. It's not just a large metal building sited component. We put some clear story windows there as well. Natural lighting for the for the interior, but also it's an aesthetic thing for the neighborhood as they drive past This will not look like some industrial blob You know, it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna perform and look as if it's a nice piece of architecture And it serves as a you know, the biggest thing I can say is it serves as a barrier and that's that's a very important thing this is again some some idea of you know, even as we talked about this this looks almost resort like and It's an idea, so let's not get hung up on the idea of there's some activity going on there and we want them to get outside. We want them to just feel human for a minute and appeal to that side of humanity, but this is all contained. And so it kind of gives them a space that they can utilize to get outside and get some exercise. This is, again, the large barrier side of it, and so the east side here with the parking lot, and this is the intake, kind of a covered intake area. I will mention that signage has been discussed. We've got a couple of ideas of potentially, and CityCare is on there. That's not necessarily who that is. Those are placeholders. How we might utilize some sort of signage on this side of the building? Obviously following the spud requirements and making sure that we stay within that 75 square feet that are there are 75 square square feet That's allowed and so we'll stay within that requirement of the spud But this does a really nice job of screening. I mean, that's a that's a 30-foot wall right there. That's in front of you and so All of the things that come with homelessness are not pretty and that's just a simple fact So we're trying to give an opportunity to manage it And with that I would open it up for questions

Okay, thank you. And Council Member Grant.

I was at the Planning Commission meeting and some of the feedback they had for y'all were places for kids to play and expanding on that and I was kind of curious in the site plan if you had incorporated that feedback and found the location that you would.

Can I go back? Yes. We do have that, yes, and I failed to mention that so that's my fault. The actual area for that If you could see here, so this this is a dedicated space here that will also be fenced That is for families and so they will have their they have so the kids and families have their own dedicated outdoor space and this is this is the center one that separates the two buildings and Is is general? Okay, and so that anybody can go there but but this is a dedicated Private area for families.

Yeah, that will be fenced in as well. Absolutely and only accessible through Only through the through the family area, which is the which is the building to to the south there And then I saw community garden and the list of uses is that and the proposed detention where that might some of the

So there's been discussions. I don't believe that that's allowed. So there have been discussions that that is a desire. At a certain point when we looked at this, we were trying to go a little further east. But I think that we've got some issues with the flood zone and things like that. So it depends. That's the answer. The last time I had the last time we presented this, I don't I don't think everybody understood the depth that we've gone to on this. It's a concept. And so the depth isn't that we've done construction documents. We haven't done engineering. We haven't gone through I don't have a civil engineer and we're literally architects just taking a stab. this and looking at and trying to give some thoughtfulness to it and trying to get some depth but we're not there yet and so that's a you know that's a four to six month process that will happen and will take place once all this is kind of approved and move move forward where we'll you know we'll be able to answer those definitive questions that you have about how the how the facility is is operating obviously in an operations agreement that you might sign

And then I am just thinking about Bishop Creek, and I appreciate the row of trees on the east side. Is there fencing to go along with that?

Yes, ma'am. Okay. Absolutely. This is a completely contained development, 100%, and it'll have – Black vinyl coated is what we've put in the spud, black vinyl coated fencing for the backside. And that's porous and intentionally, so there's a security component to that. People can hide behind things. We don't want that to happen. On the front side of the building, though, that is actually like a non-porous fence. So that'll be, think stockade, think wood, some sort of a true blocking element that you will not be able to see into the courtyard.

And then just thinking about stormwater, are there low impact development principles in this design that would help? I know there's the detention side of it, but anything like a rain garden that might help clean the water as it moves through this property?

To my knowledge, at this point, none of that's been discussed or developed. It's not to say that we couldn't. I don't think that anything's in the SPUD regarding that.

No, I mean, I think there's just a commitment that we will meet all of the city's current regulations and requirements for site, retainage, detention, stormwater.

But it doesn't mean you couldn't have low impact development principles? Not at all, correct. Absolutely not. All right, those are my questions for right now. Thank you.

Thank you. Council Member Gansberry.

Yes, Sean. Hearing some of the concerns in the protest letters that I read and emails that I received, will there be separate fencing outlining the detention pond by itself and everything, kind of protecting it from a kid in the neighborhood coming over or whatever else there?

The detention is – It looks as if it's some sort of a pond of water. It's not. Those are largely empty. They're allowed for big, you know, large amounts of water.

Is it going to have a fence in the very front running down the still?

It does have one in front, yes. All right. That helps.

Council Member Bruce.

Claire love by that just a little bit so is there a there's a fence that surrounds a facility that's relatively close in my mind and there's a secondary fence around the primers that correct.

There's so so if you can see my so we'll have a fence. All on the North edge. So the entire property, with the exception of this element, or this actually is open, to clarify back to David's question, the detention is not fenced, is not intended to be fenced.

Okay, and this is really for Anthony. I'm just trying to get this straight in my mind. So you've got 146 individuals, potential max, in this facility. But once you've been inducted, you know, you can... So that's thinking about I was in there and 446 folks. I would need to take a walk every once in a while. So I mean, I know we're not supposed to operational, but yes, do I go at the back and

So is there anything in the SPUD narrative that addresses that particular concern? Absolutely not, but it's because more of it's a SPUD document and that's, I think, a little too, you know, it's really more of the built environment. And so as far as the built environment and how it could address that concern, the layout of the buildings and the structure of the buildings is designed in such that intake can be very continuous if necessary but in terms of whether or not someone is allowed outside or inside the building is not really addressed in this but narrative no i appreciate the ambiguity the uncertainty yes so the other other thing that i have has to do with uh i keep thinking about

this particular design and the impact associated with the community, but it's really larger than that. It has to do with, I call it a strategic plan, where I thought the city had promised the community, the neighborhood, hey, we're gonna work with you on a strategic plan related to your concerns. When I think about that strategic plan, I think about mitigating risk for the city as it relates to the Oklahoma Safe Neighborhood Act. Can you give me some type of reassurance that plan is currently under development or has been finalized?

So I think what I will first, again, is because I have to kind of tie it somehow to the item at hand, right? So correct. And that is, I think, what has been stated by the city or some, I think, members of council or otherwise. that we would like to utilize the neighborhood and like be involved with the neighborhood as we move forward and addressing their concerns absolutely yes so for so for example I think what you're talking about again is going to encompass so much more than what we can do and put into a spud narrative right I'm not asking for I'm just asking for an update as it relates to the strategic plan that we

in good faith mentioned to the community he will work with the neighborhoods have developed that plan so if that plan hasn't been started. I would like to know.

OK so yes, which separate from this. We have been engaged with I think it's Evan Taylor who is I think a part of original town site Okay, good. And so what we are currently doing is working on it's not necessarily a strategic plan so much as like and they've used been used in other areas before like what an MOU of sorts like that's called a good neighbor agreement, right? Which is it, you know puts into writing like what the expectations are it, you know establishes a you know Maybe a formal complaint process or a dedicated complaint process in which community members can input their concerns, right? What I'm saying is that the status is ongoing. Do we have one now? No. Here, I mean, I would be a little concerned if we had one in front of you today, because we're going to be evolving and the community concerns are gonna be evolving as we build this, right? It needs to be an ongoing process, not one that I can give you in a package that'll never change ever here today. And so I think some of the steps that we have taken to- I'm not saying that.

I'm saying there literally should be some type of living document at this time related to those concerns Addressing the potential concerns and the needs that have been expressed by those neighborhoods and those needs being turned into potential action plans for the city That's all I'm saying. So if we don't have anything on that so far, I'm good with it.

I just need to know Yes, and so again to pick up where I left off in terms of the status of that where we're at now is I we have had conversations and then kind of like looking at like generally like what could that look like like what would you like to see and then we're planning on actually going down I don't know so I mean Lisa Craig who recently retired from the city I think two years ago went down and we toured the bridge it was a homeless facility a lot like this one in a way in terms of its conception and that's in the city of Dallas, right? We were struck when we went in there, I think, by where it was at in relation to the neighboring partners. And when we parked, we were like, are we sure we're in the right place? We didn't really see anyone. It's located right next to a brand new development, which is, I think, high density luxury apartments called the Farmer's Market, I think. And we talked to them, it was a whole campus in downtown Dallas, and had a lot of conversations about them on how they run their facility, and I think it's a really good facility to kind of use as that guidepost. And talking with Amanda Scherf, our community outreach, or community, I can't remember, services manager, we have organized a trip down to visit them again, and specifically this time talk about how the community relation piece works because they do have a lot of formalized good neighbor agreements that have been facilitated by the city as well as some like additional governing documents and how they relate both on the city side and how they're funded and also from how they have private agreements with the neighboring facilities. So we want to look at a lot of good examples so that we can kind of step in their footsteps and also kind of mirror what they've done and how they've been successful. And so we're putting a lot of time and effort, I think, into making sure we're doing all the research and we're getting good use cases. And then that way, we can come up with a better product. So again, a lot of effort, time, and intention we are putting forward at this time. But we don't have a final product yet, no.

I would expect you to final projects which have a living document that you started with the neighborhood. These are potential concerns is this is how we can address them. Those would turn into requires for the city to mitigate the risk that are associated with Oklahoma safe neighborhoods act.

and just to clarify on that note there's the section 2 and the ordinance talks about the from the Planning Commission after conducting a public hearing neighborhood impact study and a plan for infrastructure and takedown schedule, et cetera. I think that's part of what Council Member Roos is alluding to. Could you clarify that recommendation from the Planning Commission about what? impact study and then schedule of ideally two years and not longer than five years for said infrastructure to be installed collaboration with police department and other neighboring partners things like that so are you talking about this the recommendation of the Planning Commission and like their recommendation

So that recommendation, my understanding is, which again, I don't know how to necessarily formalize that in a spud document. It's just not something that I think I can understand as putting in there. But that was more focused on what the city can do outside, not how it relates to the parcel, but as it relates to the neighboring impacts, right? Again, I don't think this is something that if, you know, a private developer came forward potentially that you could necessarily like, you know, put in a spud narrative, right? But because we are the city, right? In terms of like, we are, you know, we have more power as the owner, we can put those requirements on ourselves potentially. We can take the affirmative step in remediating some of the concerns outside of this parcel. This contains some of the remediation tactics used in the built environment to make it cohesive with the neighborhood and address concerns from the built environment perspective. but outside of that right that is a potential I think where that recommendation is coming from is like let's look at the community concerns the community impacts and then how do we address them so that is again more of a policy decision I think not necessarily a zoning decisions is how can the city be a good neighbor as the owner moving forward in terms of that continued reinvestment and intentionality within the neighborhoods so that is I think where that recommendation is coming from I don't want to speak for the Planning Commission but that is my understanding

It is written into the ordinance on section two here. The second whereas.

So the whereas clause in terms of like that's the recommendation. I'd have to look specifically. But the whereas I think language is more of like the legislative history. It's kind of like the context of where we're at. It is what happened prior to the council meeting. It memorializes the recommendations of them. It doesn't create an obligation or anything like that. So it's more of just memorializing that legislative history as it came before council.

Okay. Councilman Kirby and then grants.

I was wondering on your storm, like do you have a plan for a storm since we are in Tornado Alley? Like for a storm cellar, is it built in? And then also, do you all have plans anywhere to have like a backup generator? That way if we have a storm like we did not too long ago, we lost power here to the temporary shelter. So what's the plan for that?

So regarding generator, we haven't got there yet. It's a great idea. I think that that's probably advisable. What I would say on the storm shelter component, yes, we do have a hardened, and we're not FEMA, we've got a hardened area, that will be utilized in the kind of the dormitories of both men's and women's separate that will that will be able to take everybody that's in the facility will be able to take cover in there.

And thank you just to clarify because we're talking about the zoning item specifically I just want to make it absolutely clear I don't think that's in the zoning item itself as far as zoning requirement. But again, I think that is the intent moving forward as we're designing the property. So I just want to make sure that that is something separate from what the item is in front of you, just to clarify.

Okay, Council Member Grant.

Also to delineate between zoning and contract, I would assume by the time we got to a contract with city care to take over this facility once built and opened, that we would have the neighborhood impact study and agreements in place.

so again i would like to point out that that recommendation i don't think has been yet discussed by city council at an open meeting so like i feel like that's going to require like budgeting and you know stuff like that so if that is the direction that city council wants to take i think that is something that is worth the conversation to have but i think that's one that you guys haven't had yet um so it's i'm assuming i'm sure it's coming yes i figured

TO GIVE SOME HISTORY, WE DID SIT DOWN WITH ALL THREE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE ALAMEDA CHURCH OF CHRIST TO TALK WITH CITY STAFF, HOME TOGETHER NORMAN, COC AND CITY CARE TO DISCUSS ALL THE THINGS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR NEIGHBORHOODS WERE CONCERNED ABOUT AND THAT SERVES AS THE BASIS OF WHAT WE MIGHT what they might choose to do or adopt in a good neighborhood plan. And then leaders from those neighborhoods of some are here tonight got to tour city care and West Long Gardens and see how permanent supportive housing works when city care operates in that neighborhood. And the other collection of services and amenities, because that area, even though it is low income and has shelters, does have commercial and other things going on in the area as well. So just wanted to put that out there since our planning commission didn't know that. And maybe other members of council did not know that.

Councillor Bruce, anybody else trying to push the button?

Okay. Councilman Grant, where's the plan? Or where's the tenor of the plan? Or where's the living document where the residents have listed their issues and the cities assist those issues for potential action items in the future? I haven't seen a written document on that.

Sounds like it's coming.

Yes, it is. We will be working on that. We were just talking to the clerk about it.

Yeah, because I would say, how would the neighborhood know what to ask for in a good neighborhood agreement if they didn't go up there and actually tour it and have conversations among themselves? I understand your concern, but it's not the only neighborhood impacted by homelessness. Like, there are neighborhood, Old Silk Stocking, for example, that wants us to do stuff about homelessness around Salvation Army. So while I appreciate the questioning on this part, really we're looking at the zoning and how that impacts the lived environment.

I agree. There's been times where we've worked with representatives of developers who have asked for certain things to be accomplished and written in the ordinance to ensure that it happens. This is no different than that.

Are we still on questions? Yes. Okay.

Yes. And on that note about questions. So on the agreement part of it, a separate agreement with an operator that could be city care that the council would have to approve at a later date.

So here's what I'm going to say. And I know I keep repeating myself, and I'm sorry. But what I'm trying to avoid by keeping referring to the Spud narrative is I think promises are incredibly, incredibly, incredibly important, especially in this conversation. I don't want to have any promises made here tonight that are not in writing, right? Because you as council haven't had these discussions yet. We have not made any of those promises. You can say that we have these intents and we have the intent to have the discussion. It is on, I think, this council to have those discussions. But until that promise is put in writing, I don't want to say here today that we're putting it in writing or that we're saying it because that is how we ended up with similar situations that we're hearing from the neighborhood concerns is we were promised this and this and this during the zoning process and they never happened. Why? Because they weren't in the zoning document, because that is the promise that we're making tonight. Those promises are the ones I'm concerned about. And any other promises that council is interested or willing or wants to discuss, I'm more than happy to have that conversation with you. But I think that at this point, my goal is to not promise things to the neighbors that we haven't actually put our money where our mouth is or have those conversations dedicated to those items. Because at this point, we're deciding on whether or not the zoning and the zoning requirements in this document are going to be put in place. Those promises will be put in place. Those other promises, which I think are important, have to be decided at a later date because that is not what is in front of council now. So all of those promises, yes, will be made at a later date if council decides to put them on an agenda and make those promises at that time. That's up to you guys, and I think that that is the intent. But right now, the promises we have today, those are not the promises we have in front of us today, no, but I'm assuming that they will come, yes.

Right, and any, before this facility opens, any operating agreement with whoever the operator is will have to come before this body again and for a public hearing and be approved or not at that time. Correct. Perfect. And then can any Norman resident, as part of this, any Norman resident would be able to access this facility?

No.

For services? No.

For example sex offenders. It's not within the area. I think that well, it depends It's a complicated question because you know Every individual case is different and it was at a different time and there are different statutes that apply they're picking on the person But no, I mean, I think essentially there are certain legal constraints such as that But again, that's not contained within the zoning document that is contained within state law. So No, this simply answer the question and then there was discussion about well, I

We had discussion about a citizen committee similar to the Animal Welfare Oversight Committee that was formed to oversee the creation and construction of the animal shelter several years ago and having a similar citizen committee, a more official one than the Home Together that would still exist as a citizen committee but a formal one that would actually oversee the construction of this but not necessarily related to this spud document but more an answer to some questions we've heard about neighborhood involvement representatives from the neighborhood being on something like that as well so uh counselor bruce

Clarify this I'm not asking an operational excuse in question I'm asking a question based on six or seven months ago where people said both from the city and from staff and from they read a we're gonna get together and develop this document We're going to build the knock about our concerns and our issues and how the city is going to address those concerns and issues some of those turns in the needs related to some type of plans relate to execution of. In lights or pin fences or security patrols and stuff of that nature. I can see from tonight that we don't have that document established or even the start of it. Is that correct? Even the start of it? Because we haven't directed staff to do that. Is that correct?

No, not necessarily. I'm not going to say that there is no intentionality or like, so like, I guess, do we have a draft document? Is that the question?

You bet. Oh, yeah.

No, no. There's no draft of like a, you know, like, no. But are we having discussions? Are we talking about it? Yes.

So even in your brainstorming sessions where you did nominal grouping or some other technique, there is no notes related to those meetings, hey, these things are topics of importance that we need to resolve on.

Do we have a list of community concerns? Oh, yeah. I mean, I can give you all the action center complaints. I can give you, like, I mean, yes, we've taken notes for those meetings, especially the public meetings, because there's going to be minutes. So there are written documents pertaining to the effort to produce a later document, I guess, if that answers your question.

Just want just coming up I'll leave it at that so by our actions alone. Tonight of what we've discussed has proven the concerns of the communities that are going to be around the city shelter. This was a concern of theirs and hey we're we were going to take appropriate action in a timely manner. So to me, appropriate action would be the start of the living document to list their concerns and give potential courses of action to mitigate those concerns. That's all I have.

Thank you, Council Member Grant. And then Gansberry.

I appreciate delineating between the SPUD narrative and the other things that we're going to do. And as the chairperson who actually chairs oversight, I can promise to the neighborhood, especially original town site sitting there, that we will bring those forward in oversight to discuss further when the appropriate time comes because we are always juggling many things. But yeah, I totally expect this conversation to continue. But my vote tonight won't be contingent on that. I'm fully supportive of the spud. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Gran Canisbury.

Yeah, I'd like want to say new I go over there around reach 3 quite a bit. I go talk to people quite a bit and I've even reached out to a couple of the members of the community of there as well and yes, I've taken mental notes and you know notes on paper for myself Bruce, but I if there was a meeting that existed about where we sit down talk about this. I wasn't about that meeting because I didn't go to a meeting like that and everything not think that's why trying to say we need to have one and One of our other councilmen at our retreat actually put that on our big board to discuss a read improvement of policy and how we're going to go about that over there on reed street that i look forward to addressing you know very very soon but i think for the case of a spud tonight it's this isn't the conversation for how or who the operation is going to be that's for when that contract gets put in place and we're trying to prove that contract or not to get all those narratives and get the person that's going to be running it in front of us to nail them to the cross And ask them those hard questions about how they're going to run the facility or not. And I'm not talking operation.

Council members, Councilor Gadsbury.

So and just I think another thing as well is like there's not going to be one living document that is going to address all community concerns. We're going to have to address this in multiple ways, one of which is how the built environment addresses some of the concerns of the neighbor. So in a way, it is not one living document that is going to address these concerns. It's going to be a group of documents and a group of protections and a group of intentions and the documents that flow from those that create a network of the protection to address those concerns. This is one thread in that fabric. So again, if you want to think about it as one living document, I would say think of it as one living tapestry. This is one thread. One, where we contain some promises that we are putting in the SPUD document that contain regulations and criteria for the built environment. And we have listened to the community members and what their concerns are. And at this point in the process where we can address the built environment, we are trying to implement that feedback. But again, do we have every single part of that? No, we're still weaving. But until we get to that point, it is one thread at a time. So this is one of the threads that's in front of you. And that is why I've been so purposeful about making sure that we are on task and like, what are the promises here? Are we looking at the promises that we're making here? Are they realistic? Do they address the concerns of the neighborhood? I haven't heard anything necessarily about, well, I think you should have put this. I think you should have put that. Where is this? This is missing. That is what this discussion is for. And if that's the case, I think we did a pretty good job. But again, we haven't heard from the public yet. And I think that's going to be a large part of that. And then council gets to make their decision. So I want to make sure here tonight that the part in front of you guys contains everything that the Spud document should contain to address the concerns of the neighborhood. And so I think that's kind of where I want to go. Yes, we could have a lot more. This is what we have in front of you tonight.

This is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item. Madam Clerk, does everyone sign up to speak on the side?

Yes, Mayor. Megan Strong. Caleb McGee.

Good evening, Council, Mayor, CM Steele, CM Deck, welcome. So from my perspective, we come down here pretty often to have the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If we leave these people out in the elements, you're going to see the kind of things that you see in encampments. If you don't assist the encampments with any kind of infrastructure, Just like any other human enterprise, without maintenance, it's going to fall apart and it's gonna be a nightmare. And if we forever play these silly games about finding whatever sticks to throw into the middle of the path, we're not gonna get anywhere. These policies and conditions that lead to this situation do not originate with the city. They do not originate with the state. They don't even all originate with the federal government. Some of these are worldwide conditions that have always been with us. Doing exactly the same things is going to continue to net exactly the same results. So if we put all of our effort into chasing people who have put their stuff down, which Charles Dickens wrote about in the 19th century England, and that kills people. that puts further strain on people's mental and physical well-being. As we ourselves with the city have noticed, every encampment we wreck leads to a whole bunch of angry calls from the surrounding community when everyone's dispersed. And then they end up in the same place or 100 yards away or 200 yards away. I just want to know, as a citizen, when we are going to take the focus and the impetus off of the most powerless people in the equation. Because from where I'm sitting, It seems like we have an underclass of people that just keep getting shit on. I've been awake 40 minutes. I don't have all my language in yet. And it's not acceptable. It's not conscionable. I'm tired of watching it. I would like to ask if we can please

like to remind everybody this is a rezoning so if you will have further conversations and debates and votes about operation and policy but this conversation is about whether you think this piece of property that's never been zoned for anything it's institutional state previously stayed owned for 100 plus years should be rezoned to allow for overnight staying so Just so everybody's on the same page about that part if you think this piece of property is appropriate for this use or not, so Proceed yes mayor Heidi Smith I'm Heidi Smith.

I'm from Ward 5 I'm also with the Cleveland County Continuum of Care. You all know me. Been here before. When I was thinking about what to say tonight, the thing that has really been in my mind for the last week is we have addressed homelessness in Norman in the manner of building the plane while we're flying it. It has been a crisis. It's been an emergency. We've taken steps that then because they weren't incredibly well thought out or because they were the least terrible option that has been the theme of 2026 is what's the least terrible option and i think with this shelter specifically we looked and looked and looked and i think the number is 13. i think this was the 13th site that they actually tried to put either some places had had a contract before but This is just doing the next right thing. It's saying we want to take steps. We know that this is important to our community. The home-based plan is the highest priority is to have a permanent shelter in our community. We need the space, we need the resources. So this is just saying we're doing the next right thing and we're taking it steps in order. I would just highly urge each of you to say, Yes, we're going to have community conversations. Yes, there's things that need to be resolved, but this is just the next right thing. Thank you. Thank you.

Evan Taylor.

Good evening, Mayor, City Council Members. My name is Evan Taylor, Ward 4, and I'm a resident of the original Townsite neighborhood. And I wanted to begin by saying that I do not oppose this vote, don't want you to either. I understand that approving the SPUD authorizes the zoning that makes this shelter real, and I recognize the need it's meant to serve. Now, but approving it really does make it real. real for us and i can tell you guys are already sitting with this but i ask you continue to sit with that for a moment because we're the ones who live next to what becomes real our neighborhood already knows what goes on on reed avenue intimately we know it because we live there now there's already an extensive encampment there there's already heavy traffic there's already a natural concentration of people that are drawn to that exact place because that's where they eat their meals And there just aren't any hypothetical impacts the study needs to discover. There are daily conditions, and they're not going to pause while this building goes up. Now, the Planning Commission recommended an impact study, and I appreciate the instinct behind that. I think it was meant to protect us. But here is our honest concern. A study is just a snapshot. It describes one moment. and the challenges we're talking about, spillover, traffic, encampments on state land that the city can't even enforce on, these are not a single moment. They are going to shift from month to month, from season to season, and a snapshot taken this year within two years or no farther than five years really tells you nothing about the problems we're going to be managing in the future. And so my neighbors and I are asking, is not more paperwork? You know, we want a relationship and I've already been meeting with the city attorney's office with Anthony, Anthony Parrington and with Amanda Scherf, your new community services manager. And those conversations have been very, very good. What we want is the kind of dialogue like that, make it permanent. We need this channel where the neighborhood can reach a named person at the city to get real substantive responses on a reasonable timeline where we solve problems together to actually arise, not once on paper before anything's actually happened. And I think that's what it means to be a good neighbor. You're about to build something next to us. The things you do will affect us and the things we do will affect you. The only way that works and the only way neighbors can make it work is by standing in conversation. So approve this bud. But as you do, and I think the desire is there, commit to us to building that loop between us and the city. Give us a seat on how this gets managed. Be our neighbor, not just our zoning decision. Thank you.

Thank you.

Lisa Schmidt.

Good evening, I'm Lisa Schmidt. I live in Ward 2 and I have for 27 years. I'm here as sort of the unofficial spokesperson for the faith community and some of the nonprofit organizations that all come together to try to build a network to support our most vulnerable citizens, whether they are the people of Norman who are homeless or the people of Norman who are near homeless. And a lot of us do put our efforts, the churches, the mosque, the groups that come together every month and have for several years, every third Friday of the month, we come together to talk about who's being served, how they're being served, how can we help people prosper, how can we work together. We talk about what's not being done. Those meetings are open to anyone who would like to attend. And we just really want to thank you for taking the next step because we see this as such an important piece of supporting and helping, and helping us help others. that you're taking the next step by approving the zoning in this area that we know people will be best served in that area. We are used to helping and serving people in that area that we just want to thank you for approving this and hope that we can continue to work together with the neighbors. We consider the neighbors who are housed in the shelter to be important. We consider all of the neighbors that are around that shelter to be our neighbors. And we really do want to be a source of dialogue and help and understanding and listening to everybody involved so that we can help more Norman people prosper and really serve all of God's children. We see every one of them in those encampments now and being sheltered and in the overnight shelter as Children of God that we are called to serve and we really appreciate the chance to be involved in those conversations and discussions And thank you for thank you for this commitment. We look around at other communities and you really are Making a stand and responding to real Situations and real people and real families and we just feel that that's very important to want to be a part of that. So, thank you Alex Lanphier

Alex Lanphier, Ward 2. Given the homelessness crisis that Norman's been experiencing for the last six years, I think it is appropriate to rezone this land. So please approve this, Bud. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Marguerite Larson.

Margaret Larson Ward 6. I am very excited that this is moving forward. I really think that this shelter is imperative, absolutely imperative to the community, for all the community. And so I am very, very hopeful that you all will approve this. Things will move forward and our unhoused population will have some sort of destination in the end. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mayumi Windler?

Hello. Mayumi Windler, Ward 2. So first off, yes, please approve this. And then the next thing is it is still related to the homeless thing. I looked at all of the documents. online uh thank you for suggesting you know looking up homeless statistics uh so 2025 416 unique people um 193 housing connections and 28 people connected to housing um so far this year 234 unique people, 100 housing assessments, and 36 connected to housing. So we're pretty much on track for the people and the housing assessments, but we are doing know really well on connecting people to housing and I'm hoping having a permanent shelter where they can just be there the whole time that'll get more people you know connected to housing and getting other documents and getting them back you know into a productive life so thanks thank you Dan strong

Good evening. I'm Dan Strawn. I've been in Ward 6 for a little over three weeks now, about a quarter century in Ward 7 before that and a quarter century on the west side of Norman before that. I'm also the interim chair of Home Together Norman and was the founder and for 20 years the executive director of the Homeless Alliance in Oklahoma City. I can talk about homelessness all day, but that's not what we're here about. I want to address the SPUD very directly, and I would suggest to you that the way to think about it is as civic infrastructure, like an OG&E power station or a water treatment plant or a senior center. Those are things that benefit a broad swath of the community, and they're also things that maybe people don't want to live next door to. But because they benefit a broad swath of the community, folks like you have to kind of decide where that's going to go. And you may wish that the dark side of the moon was available for development. It's not. So you got to figure out where in Norman you're going to put these things. And there was a lot of work, as Heidi mentioned, done to find the appropriate location. And that's what this spud does for us. Now, it's going to benefit the 2,000 or so people It serves in a year directly by meeting their basic needs and moving them towards housing. But it benefits the other 128,000 of us here in Norman. If you're one of those folks that are uncomfortable or scared or angered by the presence of homeless people on our street, this facility helps with that problem. If you're one of those folks who for moral or philosophical or religious reasons feel like we have an obligation to care for the least of these, our brothers and sisters, this facility does that. This spud will enable us to have a facility that will benefit the entire community. And so I would urge you to vote yes on the spud. Thank you.

Thank you. That's all I have signed up, Mayor.

Anyone else that has not spoken on this item that would like to speak, please come forward. On the rezoning for the spud.

James Cromer, Ward 5, Ward 3, and a whole bunch of others. We have four bees over there in the same area, but here's the whole deal. I used to lease that land to cut hay off of it. It's a swamp land, and here's another city project that's going to fail. Check, do core samples, because it's nothing but a soggy bottom out there. Check it out. We're tired of spending money for stupid engineering mistakes. Thank you.

Leaving Council, Brad Worcester, Ward 4, 132 North Santa Fe. I have a couple things I'd like to mention, neither one of which has anything to do with whether the shelter should be here, specific about this plat and the SPUD application. First, zoning changes usually accompany a plat. This property is unplatted. Apparently the city is exempt from platting. The planning process often identifies issues and requires applicants to address those issues before it even comes to Planning Commission. And I guess the city gets to skip that. So there's pieces missing in this application by not doing a plan. Second, SPUD or PUD always seems to have a site plan that regulates the project. The SPUD narrative in this one references a preliminary site plan that's subject to change. How can Council pass a PUD referencing a site plan that would change in the future? This is the zoning document. That would allow changing the zoning ordinance effectively with no public hearing. This application and narrative and site plan probably would have never made it to the Planning Commission agenda if it was any other applicant. Some quick deficiencies. I don't think there's another zoning district in Norman with a 15-foot front yard setback for a building. Most of them are all 25 feet. Staff can correct me on that if I'm wrong. The entire site plan appears to be designed around the floodplain, but there's no mention of the floodplain in the SPUD narrative. The areas shown as floodplain and floodway are based on a 2008 FEMA map that specifically excludes the entire Griffin campus, which drains into Bishop Creek. There probably should be a complete flood study done before designing a project around a 20 year old flood plain map. And really vote however you plan on voting on this. This plan appears to have some pretty significant deficiencies on the site plan that would have been addressed differently if it had been a private project versus a public project. Apparently the city gets to skip a lot of the steps. I'm not saying that's bad or wrong and it's up to everyone else to decide if this is where this project goes, but the floodplain stuff is interesting. I mean, the site plan could have been modified since planning commission happens all the time. Nothing was modified since planning commission. It has 850 feet of chain link fence running through the floodway. Why wasn't that moved? So I know there's an urgency to get this done. I understand that urgency. But this is a zoning document that stays forever. So I hope we get it right the first time, because it's hard to go back and change once you build the building. Thank you for your time.

Billy Jewell, Ward 5. When you have questions about zoning and open ends, and just like the man said, Things come in later, get put in that, well, it's too late. Got a whole packet full of them. Same thing right here. There's questions being asked, not answered. Why are we gonna go through with this? Why don't we wait until all the questions are answered and do it at one time?

Judy Moss, Ward 4. I just wanted to come up and make a comment after I heard about the comment that was made about the land being a floodplain swamp. And I've lived it on Stewart Street. about five blocks from the food and shelter for about seven years. And that flood canal that comes off of Bishop Creek and goes all the way to the river runs right in front of my house. And on three different occasions when we've had some terrific rain, we've had flooding in our neighborhood. So this is something to consider because there is some flooding that happens there I've seen it myself and then there's been times when that Canal is just looks like a Rapid river running with all the water that runs off of it. So that is something to think about Because we've had My neighbors now where we live on with kind of a high spot So we're not too bad. But there's some neighbors that have gotten water in their houses and there's a vacant lot there at the corner of Stewart and Comanche. It looks like a lake when the waters get that high. So y'all think about that, okay?

Thank you. Please.

My time starts. We can ask questions or we can't ask questions? Okay. And then there is a chance to talk about encampment policies and ordinances later, correct? Yeah, okay. Just wanted to make sure that is the case. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Just wanted to clarify. I guess I was a little bit... YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, JACKSON AND THE WARD OF THE WORLD OR HUMAN BEING OR HUMANITY AND THEN SPECIFICALLY IF YOU WANT TO ZOOM IN WITH A CAMERA, IT WOULD BE WARD FOUR SOMEWHERE AROUND FLOOD AND MAIN. SO I GUESS I WAS A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED AT WHAT I WOULD CALL AN ANTISOCIAL CITY AGENDA. that I happen to see tonight and it's trickle down psychological effects that I've been seeing in my very short time in Norman here. Specifically for a city that has $100 million general revenue fund every year and $300 million that it spends taking just $500,000 from a soda company to plaster their name on a water tower. That is the height of absurdity. Maybe I don't know much about absurdity, but to me, that seemed like a bad deal, and Citi sells out water to soda company seems like bad PR. There was not a chance to discuss it. I asked somebody else in the audience whether it had ever been discussed before in this forum. It was not. The way that it relates is, and thank you for the segue, friends. ...

Is he going to talk about the germane item?

The way that it relates, and thank you for introducing the notion of soggy bottom, people have been very critical, as you probably will see, of the market socialist country, China, which I'm sure you've all heard of, losing 30% of market value in homes in the past, recent past, so that now a home costs the same amount as it did in the 1990s. That's good for some people who want to buy a home and stay in their homes. I think that people here love their neighbors, and I think that people here in Norman love their homes. And I am too concerned about what happens on a daily basis. But I think people here might love their property values a little too much. So in a market socialist society, it's worth noting, because this may be the only opportunity that counselors on the dais get to hear about this stuff, because you guys have busy lives, markets and financial institutions exist not as the ultimate good, but they are a tool in order to have a regulated, tightly and democratically decided, as in certain mechanisms it is in China, as in certain mechanisms it is here, society that can deploy those tools for those purposes. Not for the end of ever rising profits and property values, because that puts us into not just crises like the 08 crisis, but otherwise. So this sort of love of property values is something that people who are in encampments now, they're not ignorant of. They're not helpless ignorant. They may have learned helplessness because of the psychological effects of that problem in our society, but they can tell you very much the name of my favorite party, which is the rent is too down.

In the relation to the rezoning. We've got about 30 seconds left.

I had about 30 seconds before I was cut off. And this, what do you call it, rezoning of a spud plan is certainly going to help in that regard. My question would be, what is going to make it different from the property just north of there where you had cameras and fences and that type of thing? So if anybody on the dais can answer that, I would be appreciative because it seems like it's rebuilding just about the same.

For this by the way Russell rise toward to just for everybody else the land is known to be 33% flood land For 77% of it is not so that they are building on that part of it and that information was put out to the public in the Many meetings ago in the executive room back yonder so and then also I had to answer some questions about why some things aren't being done yet and because it's not funded. Some of the things can't be done yet because it's not funded. They can't keep track of everything because it's not funded. It's hard to do that whenever it's not funded. I mean, yes. Thank you.

CHRIS MARTINEZ- Thank you. Anyone else that has not spoken on this item that would like to speak? Mr. Johnson.

Okay, Rodney Johnson, Ward 2. I just had a couple of questions, really. I understand this is rezoning. We all know that this is where the homeless shelter's gonna go. We had a vote on it. We bought the land. It has nothing to do with our morals or our religious convictions because we're gonna try the best we can to help our homeless neighbors that we have in our town. We've already made that decision. It's gonna go here. So that's not what we need to discuss in this planning. Commission or I'm sorry in the City Council Commission for rezoning the Here's my question Why does the rezoning have to happen now? Because to me it seems like you can rezone this over the next I mean call a meeting any time in the city councilmen meeting and rezone this at any time why is the first step not speaking with the neighborhood and getting something in writing. And to me, I think my fellow citizens that live in that neighborhood are giving up something that We might say a little leverage here because they're the ones that are gonna have to live with that They're the ones that have lived with that for a long time and you know, we're talking about property van Property values and all that in that neighborhood, you know, I would anybody that's been in that neighborhood I would care to guess that you could go in that neighborhood and realize these aren't rich people and These are people that probably have most of their assets in their property, in their homes. I don't think we've done a good enough job in the past in understanding what that neighborhood has really done for us and has put up with for several years now. So why can't the conversation and those type things that have the guarantees to the neighborhood and have more guarantees to the public start before you rezone? So maybe there's a reason that you have to rezone now before you do those other things. If there is, I'd like to hear it. But to me, rezoning is just rezoning. We know it's going to go there. We know what we're going to do with it. We know, and maybe some of these other problems also, as far as the flood plain and all those type of things, maybe those can be addressed. Now, a lot of people have stated that this is the first step and they want to do this because it is the first step. Maybe it doesn't have to be the first step. I don't know. but I think you should at least discuss that. And if you can rezone and it doesn't have to be the first step and things can move forward before rezoning, I would suggest you vote no and you start the conversation and have something in writing like Mr. Bruce was talking about and give those neighbors some type of guarantee because their property values already plummeted with what they've had to put up with so far. And I don't know, those are the questions I would have. My time's almost up. So thank you very much. Thank you.

Seeing no other public comment, final comments from council and got council member grant.

Yes, I would like to recognize Public Works Director Scott Sturtz to answer questions about stormwater on this location and then maybe a question for Mr. Parrington about the plotting process. Thanks. Yes, ma'am. Could you speak to the stormwater concerns that members of the public brought up?

Yeah. Public Works. Basically what we're looking at here, I think the main discussion tonight has been about the floodplain, that issue. There's floodplain and floodway on this site, basically starting at the center line of Bishop Creek and then it goes, or this tributary to Bishop Creek, and then it goes to the west onto the property. From early on, we identified that. We knew that that was an issue that was a concern here. And so the site design has been purposely laid out in a way to avoid those two areas and not have an impact, which is, the best way to address those. Basically, we don't have a direct rule, but we don't allow development within a flood way. A flood way, by the way, is that area that will flood in an event. That's the area that we can guarantee that's the most inundated area. And then the floodplain is that area that will kind of spread out and take the remainder of that flow. so in this case they have totally avoided that uh that flood way and in fact even the flood plain area so that's really the best thing i've got to discuss on that um you know as far as the the area to the north on griffin not being included i can't give you a definite reason why that's not included on the mapping i could definitely look that up but that area is typically cut off based on an acreage and you have to have a certain acreage coming to an area before they evaluate that when they do floodplain mapping and i think that's probably that main street just became that cut off but i'd have to look into that further to make sure that that's the case but we definitely have the floodplain identified clearly on this parcel so from main street south on this

And the way this is designed, you have that detention pond that releases at the historic rate. Is anything that we're doing going to work in concert with the Bishop Creek Nature Park that we're also building to the south of this?

They're totally independent, but yes, because of the detention pond, so basically this will be designed in a way that will collect that water and discharge it at the historic rate, at or below the historic rate. Typically you see just a little bit below because it's really hard to get it right on that number, so usually we aim for a little bit lower number. Because of that, it's not going to have more water going through at any one time to that location. So while they're not working together and they're not really tied in any way, that will minimize the impacts to that and on further downstream.

All right. Thank you. And then the next questions are for Mr. Parenton. Could you address the item about the plotting process and the city's fidelity to that?

Yes, so I think you know council did get a contract for engineering services like related to the design And that would kind of customarily be going into a plat Historically no we have not platted our own projects We just I can't necessarily speak to the historical reason why that but like legally no we are not required to Plat our own properties You could also tell none of the property north of it is platted, state ownership. So it is just part of.

So Crimson Flat's not platted?

It is platted, but it is private ownership. It was city ownership, public private partnership in that particular instance. So the city did go through with the plat process as the city owned it, knowing that it would exchange hands to a private developer in that process. because it would be then private ownership. So that is why we made the decision on that one to plat.

And then how much of this can change before it has to come back for a rezoning?

So that's a really, I think, good question. Those are set out and I have it right here. And I think there was a concern about the fence and the floodway. It is a concern. So that's going to be in. 36 501 at the very last section K administration the planning director shall be permitted to approve minor amendments and adjustments to the spud narrative or site development plan map provided the following conditions are satisfied there's a list of conditions for fencing for example I think let's see here Screening and fencing requirements can be amended, provided amendments shall not substantially alter the spread. So, for example, if the floodplain permit committee didn't want to permit it being in the floodway, what you might see is a potential amendment where that just drops over to not follow the floodway, but falls in the floodplain, which is, you know, a little bit easier to do. And so that line might might not be a very straight line at the end of it, but it will look a little wandering with the stream. So, but that is like maybe a small amendment that can be done administratively. So, you know, yes, there are changes, there are potential small amendments that are recognized with specific criteria that can occur in the code.

So just to be clear, if it requires a fence, it will have a fence. If there were to be no fence, it would have to come back before us.

Yeah, so it says that we will have a fence. The location of the fencing is potentially shifting, could shift, and that could be like a minor amendment. And Jane, correct me on any of that if I'm wrong, if she's here. But yeah, that's kind of the process for that.

So there's no way to just take things out. I mean, they can shift, but if we approve it tonight, they have to be there. Otherwise, it comes back before us to change that aspect.

Correct. So anything subject to the administrative small adjustments, anything that would go beyond that would come back to you guys.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

And then there was a question about The soil, and I would assume as part of the construction design process for this, that testing the ground to make sure that it can support a building is something that is being done. Because, yeah, to my knowledge, nothing's ever been built on this piece of property specifically that I've ever seen any record of.

Typically, before you go in and do any kind of building, you're going to do some kind of geotech work. testing you're going to test those soils see what they what they really are and that way you know especially if you're going to be doing paving because you want to be able to know to make sure you're putting in a paving system that's going to be long term so I would anticipate that there would be some budgetary in this for the engineering to go through and do geotechnical survey of the area and make sure that the soils are compatible and adequate for construction and design.

Thank you. And then maybe for legal or for planning, but the question about why rezoning it now and why not later?

There was recognition as to what

budget resources are available while the ballot question still sits before the state Supreme Court. There were activities that we could undertake to get to that building permit issuance as efficiently as possible. The element for, as our architect described, we have not yet engaged the civil engineer into the project. That'll happen almost immediately following The final ruling of the state Supreme Court. So all those activities will happen. We're trying to move forward we recognize council's desire to Replace the shelter on Gray Street in the most efficient manner possible And these were steps that we could take with budgeted resources available and not waste any time.

Okay any other final councilmember grant and then Bruce gets our Bruce

Yeah, Evan, if it's all right to ask. Evan Taylor. Yeah, Evan Taylor. A couple questions for you, sir.

I don't know that asking, this would be the place to ask the neighborhood. Yeah. This would, yeah, not be the time for that. To ask the resident now. But there will be a time for that, for sure. Any other questions that you have for staff? Answers to any of this question?

I'm sorry. I just can take a moment here. I spent October, November, December hearing a bunch of concerns. Evan, that's OK. Evan, that's OK. You don't need me?

OK.

The protocol, I don't think I can do that. But I heard a bunch of concerns from the neighbors that live in Old Township and other areas related to that strategic document and to make sure that it gets done. And I was very happy to hear tonight from Evan because I believe he's one of the leaders of the neighborhood though in that area. And so I was very happy to hear that there is open communications with city staff on the concerns in Old Township. I would like to see something more than that, but I understand it's coming in the future.

Any other comments from anybody else? Seeing none. OK. The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading, section by section. Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast in the motion. And the motion to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section passes by a vote of 8 to 1 with Councilmember Kirby voting against.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

The motion to adopt.

Second. The motion on the floor is to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading. Councilmembers, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the ordinance on final reading passes by a vote of eight to one, with Councilmember Kirby voting against.

All right, item number 19 is an ordinance adding section 24-510 to chapter 24 of the Code of the City of Norman, prohibiting camping in the establishment of encampments on public property, prohibiting obstruction of public sidewalks, trails, easements, and access routes, providing exceptions, providing for enforcement, providing for severability, and declaring an emergency. And I would like to recognize Council Member Gandesbury for a motion.

Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd like to make a motion to postpone item 19 indefinitely.

Second the motion. OK. And the motion on the floor is to postpone the ordinance indefinitely. Do we want to take any public comment about that or any other?

Whatever you feel is appropriate.

Yes, OK. Then is there anyone from the audience? Is there anybody signed up to speak on this item? It is a postponement, so it would be speaking on the postponement.

Yeah.

So I don't have anybody signed up for the postponement, because they just are now. Yeah.

OK. Would anybody like to speak on the postponement of this item?

Russell Rice would, too. I believe that this should be postponed indefinitely. Absolutely. I think it's the best for the city. Thank you.

Yeah, I think postponing this is a great idea because I didn't even know what this was about or why this was showing up on the agenda. I hadn't heard anything about it until I got a text message about it from somebody at church a couple of days ago. that was asking me what this was and whether it was related to what it was related to, what it was about, what was going on. So yeah, I think that would be great. Thank you.

Can we get your name for a record, please? Oh yeah, sorry.

I forget I'm up here so often. Ella Crenshaw, Ward 6.

Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak on the postponement?

Yeah, it's me what sex I think would be a great idea to postpone it because at this point there is no alternative So I think until you can find something substantial That is a great alternative for our unhoused Population our unhoused friends postponed and is probably the best thing to do. So thank you.

Thank you

Alex Lanphier, Ward 2. I agree with this postponement as well. I think this is antithetical to solving the homelessness crisis that we've been experiencing, so please vote to postpone. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes, please, Mr. Taylor.

Hello again, council. Postponement is a good idea. Postponing indefinitely is a procedural move that kills something because there's no obligation that it come up again unless there's a new initiative. And I think that's a mistake. This is not an issue that's going away. It's an issue that right now is being handled highly on a discretionary basis, which this ordinance didn't fix because it also made enforcement highly discretionary. It didn't say who gets to decide. It really sets it up for people to be treated differently. And so it needs to go back for some work. So postponement, good idea. Postpone indefinitely. I would urge you to vote no.

a timeline to bring this back to conference discuss it some more because this issue is not going away thank you okay another question is this not a state law and don't we have to obey state law in it are we um Are we making our ordinance align with state law? Now, if a postponement is needed, maybe you do that to maybe address some of the concerns. I definitely wouldn't do a indefinite postponement if this leaves the city and those certain homeless people at threat of maybe the state coming in and doing what Governor Stitt did once already here in Norman. And he also gave Oklahoma City and Tulsa money to help address their homeless problem, but didn't do anything for us. So maybe if we, align our ordinance with state law, which we have to do anyway. Maybe we can go back and try to get some of the money that I think is rightfully deserved to Norman for this problem if he gave it to Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Worked with them and didn't work with us but You need to think about also what? Implications are going to be on the city if we don't align our ordinances with state law So that's the only thing I would add. Thank you.

Thank you I think your sprained ankle is catching fire That sounds like a very bad sponsorship deal as well. And also an incredibly bad headline, Soonerville bans tent camping of people on land. I mean, we should at least postpone it for 100 years. Yeah, we should at least postpone it for the indefinite amount of 100 years if this is truly the Sooner state. I don't think I need to explain the joke anymore. As someone who was, I suppose, raised singing the Sooner song but not born and bred here, it just sort of doesn't make sense in my head. And I think that a lot of people that are our unhoused neighbors also think it doesn't make a lot of sense are drawing their inspiration from those quarters as well so that's just my opinion I had some more stuff written about the care with which Norman shows its unhoused neighbors and I think you all have heard that people here know that and I would hope that people throughout Norman all hundred and thirty plus thousand and even throughout Cleveland County do also know that so I won't I WON'T BELABOR THAT POINT BUT I WILL SAY THAT NONE OF US AT LEAST I DON'T AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY I MEAN YOU CAN SHAKE YOUR HEAD YES OR NO AS I GO DOWN MR GAINSBURY COUNCILMEMBER DECK MR BRUCE ETC ETC COUNCILMEMBER GRANT I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO POP THE BLISTERS ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OR pop the blisters on your feet when you're in an encampment that might be broken up the very next day and you don't know because the thing has just been put up 24 hours by the city council that you don't have internet to watch the meetings, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think you guys do need to be explained that, but I also don't think you know what that's like because I certainly don't. There is not an at-large seat for that type of thing. So until that seat exists, Mr. Mayor, we should postpone it. Does that sound good?

Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Council Member Gansberry.

I have Council Member Grant first.

Yeah, please.

would go to public comments on the motion but just for transparency of why I presented the motion for indefinitely to postpone is because I truly am looking out for the interest of the city of Norman as a whole and there's actually And I think Bruce might have been referring to this act earlier tonight, even as the Oklahoma State Neighborhoods Act of 2026. Feel free, please go look that up and read it for yourself. House Bill 3985. Okay. Within that House Bill 3985, And you can look and see who signed it, who tried to make it law, which of our representatives may or may not have signed it. You look up all that for yourself. But what that House Bill 3985 basically says, that starting in November when the law goes into effect, any ordinance that a town or city has on the books then becomes what they are mandated to have to do. Meaning that if we set this in motion tonight, and then in November, One resident calls us and says, hey, what about this? We have to go respond to that incident every call or possibly get fined or sued by that individual and be taken to court as a city. So until I can get clarification for our council, for our city, for our residents, people in my ward, and protect our money and our interest, I think as a council, I need to get us all more educated on what this is, what the legal standing is going to be. And the reason why I asked for the indefinitely part of it is, for you Evan and everything, is that with it going into effect in November, and it only affects towns of 130,000 or more, and we was at 128 on our last census. So that means in four years at the next census, we will be held liable for anything that's on our books. I'd kind of like to see other municipalities handle it legally and try to get sued by their municipalities and by people in their town and see how well this law actually holds up in court before I put myself at the risk of that with our city funds and everything. So that's the reason why I made the motion for indefinite.

Okay. Council Member Grant. Council Member Grant.

Yes, thank you to Council Member Gandisberry for bringing the motion. I'm supportive of indefinitely because I believe we have new council members, and I don't know what our schedule for discussion will be like in the next few weeks, so it'd be hard to put a date certain. on the next time we would put it on an agenda. I'm gonna look to our city attorney, Knighton, because you wrote the staff report, and I believe you presented. When did that conversation on this particular item take place?

You're on.

I don't know the specific date. It was a couple of Tuesdays ago. We had a study session that we presented both of these two ordinances with regard to camping and then also with regard to some changes to our parks ordinance.

I don't, do you remember if our new council was seated?

They were not.

Okay. So I expect in a new discussion with different council members, this could take a minute. And I also share similar concerns, speaking legally, what is on our books and what's enforceable. And also having alternatives to send people because I don't don't think anybody especially i've heard it from pd tell somebody you have to go somewhere else they ask where is that and they're like i don't know it just can't be here so um if we eventually go down this path and put this on the books i would like to have an answer for our public spaces where somebody can go if it's not a park thank you thank you council member steele

Yeah, so I just had similar concerns to what Councilmember Gansbury had and in response to the indefiniteness of it. I don't want this to be an indefinite kicking the can down the road. I think that we do need to talk about this as soon as possible at the next available committee meeting that we can. And while the fire marshal may not be happy about, I think we need to be locked into that room until we come to a consensus so that we can address this and proceed as a council.

Thank you, Councilmember Dixon.

I'd like to make a motion to amend the postponement indefinitely to make the postponement on the October 27th City Council regular meeting.

October 27th.

It gives us a few months to get it through committees and conversations.

We have, just for clarification, Council Member Dixon, we have to vote on the indefinitely first. So it would have to fail.

That was the original motion, though. Typically, we vote on the amendment and then go.

Yeah, I'm sorry. You are correct. I forgot we didn't have a regular motion. So do I have a second?

Second.

OK, so we can vote on postponing this item to October 27 regular council meeting.

In order to assist and also with public concern and everything, I'd be willing to go along with that date. That way we do have a date where the public doesn't think we are putting this on the backboard and that it's not important to us.

And I can also agendize it between now and then to allow other council members?

Yes.

And then council could postpone it further at that point if you want to. Councilor Dixon, do you have anything further? No. Does that amendment?

Councilmember Blodgett, did you have a question before we vote?

And just for a little further clarification, I think city staff, park staff has been looking at this since the Grants Pass Supreme Court case came down two years ago, I think. and how that impacted policies like this. And that's where it's come from anyway, but has not been discussed with new council members. And then there have been questions about this new state law and how, if we were to codify this, how that might impact us. So I think it's definitely worthy of the conversation. And if we postpone until the October date, then we can decide then if we're ready to move forward with approving a policy change or codifying it or postponing it or denying it or whatever we want at that time.

Okay. So just for clarification, Council Member Gansbury, you would like to withdraw your motion to postpone indefinitely?

For procedure, I'll withdraw the motion to postpone indefinitely in favor of Dixon's motion.

Council Member Steele, are you in agreeance with that? I agree. Can you say that into the microphone? I agree. Yes.

I agree.

Thank you. I just want to make sure.

Yes, this is the instance he's looking for. On the record.

On the record, OK, thank you. OK, so the motion you guys are going to be voting on is to postpone this item to October 27th, 2026. Council's regular meeting. You may vote. Sorry, my mic went off. All votes have been cast in the motion to postpone to October 27th passes unanimously.

All right, and item 20 is sort of a companion item. Ordinance amending section 2-316 and section 24-507 of the Code of the City of Norman, providing for oversight, prohibiting certain activities in public parks, providing exceptions, providing for enforcement, providing severability, and declaring an emergency. And I would also like to recognize Council Member Gansberry for a motion. Yes, sir.

Due to the language of the item being comparable to the item before, I'm going to make a motion to postpone until October the 27th. Second.

Did you say second? Second. Got it.

And as it is a companion piece, we'll go ahead and take a vote on that. Just take a vote. Is there any council comment about that? Council Member Bruce?

How's a comparable. I mean we're talking about different things here. And his command has a comparable. Camping in parks. Talks about canoeing and other factors.

Yes, but there is comparable language between the 2 of them.

So let the city attorney answer that please.

Sure. The way that these two ordinances were drafted, because we were talking about camping and public parks, this specific ordinance, there's a specific provision in the ordinance regarding Sutton Wilderness that prohibits camping in Sutton Wilderness. and because we were contemplating a separate ordinance with regard to camping on public property which sudden wilderness would be public property we struck the camping language from the sudden wilderness ordinance in lieu of what would have been the new language in the new ordinance with regard to camping in public So if you were to postpone the prior matter and you were to go forward with considering this matter, you would be striking the ordinance prohibiting camping in Sutton Wilderness without something to replace it. So you effectively would be enacting an ordinance at least until you decided what to do with the prior ordinance that would be allowing camping in Sutton Wilderness, which is currently prohibited by the ordinance that's in effect.

So that's how they're related.

That's sort of that. The part that causes a little bit of difficulty with regard to considering this ordinance unless you consider the prior ordinance also.

So right now you have protection of non-camping and setting wilderness. That's correct. Okay. I got it.

Council Member Kirby.

I just want to point out that we've had meetings about camping in private yards and nobody supported that we've had meetings about camping in parts of which nobody supported. We had meetings about every type of camping in Norman which everybody said you know we need to do something about This isn't nothing that hasn't been done already in 100 in the homeless. And I don't see how this particular ordinance does anything besides just protect the public parks to make sure that every single citizen gets to enjoy them. So I'm in I'm some supporting this ordinance if it don't get postponed.

And sudden Park.

If we don't postpone and we vote to approve this, we would be allowing camping at Sutton Park.

But I'm in favor of the postponement. OK. All right.

If you want to take comment.

As it's a companion, we'll just go ahead and take the vote.

Take the vote.

Yep.

OK Council members and the motion on the floor is to postpone this item to October 27 2026. Although it's have been cast in excuse me in the motion to postpone this item to October 27 2026 passes by a vote of 8 to one with Councilmember Kirby voting against.

All right, miscellaneous comments. This is an opportunity for citizens to address City Council. Due to Open Meetings Act regulations, Council is not able to participate in the discussion. Miscellaneous comments. Remarks should be directed to the Council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less. And who do we got signed up for miscellaneous comment?

Yes, Mayor. Lisa Schmidt.

Lisa Schmidt, Ward 2. I'm here to sing the praises of the Utilities Services Department of the City of Norman. I was thrilled first that the city committed to picking up the debris. I had a ton of debris and lost some really old, big mature trees. But yesterday I had a plumber out on a different issue because I had water pouring out of a pipe in my house and the debris was sitting on my water meter. So the plumber could not get to my water meter to turn it off to address my problem. So I called the line maintenance number, right? I was never put on hold. People listened to me. I tried to express the urgency of my situation, and I understood that there's a lot of demand. And again, hot, people working really hard, but they were right there within 30 minutes with the contractor. Nobody knew, and I could not remember where my water meter, which pile it was under. I had five piles of debris in my yard. Fortunately for me, it was in the next to the last one that they removed. So we did reach the water meter. I was so grateful. Everyone was so kind and professional and just right there and willing to stay and work until that was completed. And I'm just really grateful and want to shout out to all of the people involved, so.

Thank you.

Great job. Yes, thank you. And I have been told that the state park is used to repaint it and then put their logo on it for a span of 10 years, and then the city council at that time could decide to do something else with it. Utility staff has indicated that preserving the tower could keep its future use