Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

It's bad.

We don't have much of the Alright.

Well, I can't imagine what it was like to do that now.

What do

you mean? Bad

now. With the noise? Yeah.

Well, they've only started

out. They just started out now. Oh. Yeah. Just when when they were doing our bathrooms up here, it was going on.

Yeah. Wow.

All this And

these are questions that were

sent ahead of time.

And it

was shared from rental summer. Yeah. I just met her.

Yeah. I see.

That's a big part. Yes. It's very nice. Isn't it? I don't thought it. Very nice. Yeah.

I know some folks like paper and pen. So

Pen? Oh, yeah.

Pencils. Yeah.

Yeah. In a little you can take it.

Is this thing, Steve, you know, notebook? Oh, okay. Seems very old school.

Ready to rock?

Yeah. Just a sec. Are you ready? Is it recording?

Okay. Okay.

Welcome, everyone. Today is a regularly scheduled meeting on zoning and planning committee. And in the room, we have counselor Gets, counselor Oliver, counselor Albright, and counselor Gordon on the committee. And online, we have counselor Kalis, counselor Damyubed Damyubed. And counselor Baker.

Okay. And people not counselor's not on the committee is the counselor's part. He's out too. Oh, did I? Said, Kayla's. No?

Counselor, she She did.

Okay. Well, you're gonna face that part. Yeah. No. I'm making words to chat. And then I

don't have and I should mention I don't have a working camera for reasons I don't understand. So.

Okay. I

need to find him a new computer.

I know. And not on the committee, but city councilor in the room is councilor Sean Roche. And the first item we're gonna talk about is, I'll read it in, is 22Dash26. Oh, are we gonna do the pre budget or the fourth one? Okay.

Request for a pre budget planning discussion. Counselors Baker, Wright, Farrell, Goetz requesting a preliminary discussion with the planning department, inspectional services department, and CPA program to prepare for the committee's FY '27 budget review of these departments and programs. So, let's take the planning department, and we have, Ms. Wewell, the acting director of planning. And I don't know if you saw the questions ahead of time at all or not. Yeah.

I just they just came in my inbox. So I think been looking over them, but I think I'm happy to take any more. And I think the intent from our prediscussion with the chair and vice chair is just to note them. We'll have a response tonight, but happy to provide a more comprehensive response in advance of our budget meeting.

Great. And what we should do is maybe just go over Yeah. If you have maybe a quick response or whatever. But if you have any questions, you could ask those too. Okay?

So They just came in, like, three minutes ago. So I don't think I'll have a quick response, but I can take a a look.

So are these by the carpenterings or just general?

So the first page is general and consultants, and then the next two pages should be the plan and ISD specific questions. Okay.

Madam vice chair, if I can offer I think we really I we didn't expect miss Rewell to respond to these tonight because that's really for the budget discussion. It's just to see if there's anything not on the on the list that you wanna make sure is in her, hands beforehand. So I think she's more, as I understand it, a listener than a responder at this stage. So

There might be one or two that are really easy to answer, like, for whatever reason. So but, yes, it's more listening. And if you have any questions on them we're having construction in the bathroom, so it's kinda loud in here, but I don't think it's too loud online, is it?

I can't hear any construction.

I can't either.

Okay. Why don't I go through so first, I'll read the questions, and then we'll see if anybody else, counselors, have any other questions. And then, miss Wiewell, you can, you know, ask your questions of us. So general questions, and it's, what opportunities are available for continuing education professional publications? What procedures govern when vacations occur to ensure coverage?

How can ZAP and land use help you achieve the goals you have listed for FY 2027? And and anybody who's new in the budget, when they present the budget, they have their goals listed there. Okay. And we'll get the budget way before our meeting. Number four, how are staff or FTEs aligned to challenges and opportunities you list as your goals? Do you have any questions on that, miss Wieguel? Pretty straightforward.

Yeah. I don't no questions so far.

Bunch of questions then on consultants, and I know planning tends to have a lot of consultants. And so number one, where do you intend to seek external help to achieve these goals? What type of help do you think you will need? How do these show up in your budget? Do you think you need to engage a consultant? Which ones? How much might we spend on them? Two, what amounts are set aside for consultants and how are they spent? Who must authorize and review the work? Three, would it be possible to have an accounting of expenditures and current balances in the consultant accounts?

Or entering contracts with individual consultants, how are they managed? Is oversight left with the planning director? If additional work or unplanned expenditures arrive, how is this handled? I know I've had questions in the past about consultants because what's in the budget and what's been spent has been kinda different. And I know sometimes there's a little bit of overlap, but it was still not really clear to me.

And I think in

a few other people too. Any questions on those at all? And so I know, you know, we just think of this part of planning, but part of planning is also transportation. And I know they got consultants over there. And so probably talk about those other different areas too.

Planning and development. One, what is the greatest need within planning? What would be the most effective financial investment within the department? Two, is there a budget or staff capability to focus on intentional periodic engagement with the community through mailings, attendance at village days, farmers market? Then some more on consultants. We used to have do we still have a community engagement person in planning?

We do. So we we, I think this past year, we sort of reworked that job description from community engagement to more outreach and to be more communications focused. You know, I think what we were experiencing is we just were having a hard time getting the work we do out there and kind of breaking it down in a really easy to understand way. You know, we all went to school for planning. We you know, to us, it's like, oh, it's so simple.

It's not to everyone. It's not as clear what we're up to, what we're working on, why it's important, what are the rules that, govern the work we do. So we really wanted to take a more, I think, view of that role to be more communications focused. How can we share about the work we do and what we are doing?

And who is in that role right now?

That is Hannah Sternberg. She started, last January.

Like, two months ago? Or

No. 2025.

Okay. Okay. Counselor Calis has his hand raised.

Yeah. So, miss Wewell, on, consultants, I'm just wondering and you don't have to answer here, although I'd love you're off the cuff. Like, what's your perspective on consultants? Do you just use them when you don't have expertise in house, or do you use them because there's a budget allocated and you wanna use it up? Do you, you know, how do you and and what's your perspective on how they've been used in the past?

Yeah. No. Thanks for that question. And I think one thing, I guess, about my background and experience in planning is up until this year, I'd been mostly in development review. So the cult consultants we use there are all developer funded.

So it's it's a little bit different. So now I'm stepping into this role and learning more about what we've done with the consultants. And it you know, to me, it seems like they're really I wouldn't say an extra pair of hands, but just when we have, you know, some ambitious or really, you know, maybe a step below him, you know, ambitious, I would say, village center. You know, we needed a consultant for that, but then we also used consultants for facade ratio. And I think they really help us in sort of the images and kind of case studies, kind of doing that analysis that then frees up staff time, for other things like communicating with the public.

We can't send a member of the public consultant. You know, we want to be be available for that. So I think it's just it gets it allows us to get our work done probably faster than if it were just the planning department. But I I think I'm also learning what we've used, consultants for. I think we used consultants on the plaza. So to me, they're like an extra pair of hands who can also do more analysis and have tools at their disposal that we may not. But I'd like to look into that more and provide that update next time.

I think that's good. I mean, I think that's right too because it's either they're gonna provide expertise or the ability to get something done faster. And, you know, if if you're working with the chair and vice chair and they're saying, look, this isn't as much of a priority, it's more complex. You get you have you have six months on it. Maybe you don't need a consultant, but I think you're looking at it in right way, so that's good. Thank you.

Yep. And counselor Farrell has joined us. And do you have a question on consultants? Yes. Okay. Can I read these questions first? Sure. Okay. Because not everybody has these questions in front of them. That's why I'm reading them. So questions under consultants. What is the total annual expenditures on planning related consultants? Zoning, special permits, peer reviewed transportation, urban design, and how does it compare to the approved budget? Two, which functions are currently outsourced? Peer review of development projects, zoning ordinance updates, transportation studies.

Three, are consultants being used due to specialized expertise or staffing capacity gaps? Some of these questions you've actually answered already. Four, for recurring needs, what, would it be more cost effective to build in house capacity? Five, how are consultant scopes defined and controlled to prevent cost overruns? Six, historically, consultant spending has not aligned with budget. What specific changes have been implemented to improve forecasting and oversight? And counselor Albright. So

I know that we have used Teal and Landwise because we we really don't have any architectural expertise. We don't have that kind of architectural financial analysis at all in the house.

And Counselor Dambubed.

Well, now we have counselor Dambubed, but he's not on staff.

And

You know, zoning and planning has a lot to do with analysis of what are the architectural implications, what are the cost implications. And I I I guess I I I don't know if we can afford those people to be on staff or, part time even. So I I understand why we use consultants in those particular areas, but it would sure would be nice to have people like that on staff.

Right. And I, you know, I think one thing that's important to consider is, you know, it's not just the salary of staff. It's also all the benefits that come with it that I think maybe tips the scales in the ability to use the consultants where the trade off is. And I I I do question whether we would be competitive with consultants to have an architect on staff who, you know, wouldn't have some sort of conflict of interest as well.

That's that's true. So I but you'll you'll explain all that when you answer these questions. That'd be great.

Any other questions on consultants? No. Okay. The next one is AI and technology. One, where can AI or technology automation reduce staff time in?

Examples, permit intake and review, plan document review, zoning compliance, dimensional checks, staff reporting report drafting. Two, are we fully utilizing existing systems, permitting software, GIS tools, or are there gaps in training or integration? Three, what specific technology investments would have the highest ROI? For example, upgraded permitting system, GIS integration, digital plan review tools. Four, what are the barriers to implementation, procurement, IT support, training, data quality?

Five, how can technology improve transparency and communication with residents and applicants? And six, could AI assist with zoning analysis, FAR, setbacks, client checklist, or two, identifying consistencies across plans, documents, and three, generating draft staff reports on decision memos. Have you started using AI or any other additional tools in the planning department?

So we have not used AI in sort of the more technical things, you know, that we use planners for. I I'm very kind of cautious of sort of that direction. I I in terms of sort of trusting the information AI would give, for I don't know if AI would know what the difference between an old law and a new law is. You know, our zoning is so specialized that I think that would be very risky because we're also subject to these state processes. You know, I'm thinking in special permits and, you know, I think I'm just very cautious with that.

Where we have tried and continued to use AI is, meeting minutes. So, the planning department staffs, the historic boards and commissions, there's about five a month. So that that's cumulatively quite a few meetings that we need to, do the agenda in minutes for. So we've tried AI there. It's been a little bit challenging because the software we've been working with doesn't identify who the speaker is.

And, you know, as, you know, some of these meetings go on for several hours, so there's 50 speakers in a meeting, and that doesn't quite help the, person who's conducting or doing the minutes. So we're trying with more, kind of meeting minute software and things like that, but we're not having too much success. And I think we're just trying to figure out what the right meeting is that we can use it.

Have you talked to other towns in cities to see if they're using it and what's working for them?

I think we're trying to use what we have access to. I think through Zoom, there's the Otter transcript feature, and then there's a notetaker feature. So I think we're kind of trying to see what is available to us before maybe exploring other options. But I I think it's something to explore. It's also, I think, sometimes people's personal preference. They're fine listening and doing it. They have minutes down or they prefer the AI.

Okay. Anybody else have any questions somewhere there?

No?

I can can just tell you my experience with AI. I asked it about raised beds. Yeah. And they referred me to a proposed ordinance that we had about ten years ago where it was allowed and told me, oh, yeah. Newcomb does that. And the other question I asked, I can't remember what it was, but they referred me, and I had a conversation with the commissioner about this one. They referred me to an old version of the software and not an of the zoning code and not the newer version. So it makes mistakes, and and you really have to be careful.

I think anything, though, you need to check-in. Do you wanna know if it's fully worked? We've done it? I don't know. No. Okay. Good. Good. We have been joined in the room by counselor Maliki. Yep. And and we also have been joined online by counselor Block. And counselor, you have a question?

Yes. Thank you. I'm happy to be on the record as being a bit of an AI skeptic, but I think the main question that I have around this is whether or not I I mean, it's good that the planning department is putting some thought into and being critical and and how AI is used. I'm wondering if there's a bigger question about an administration wide strategy, to how AI is used or not used, and whether that you know, or or whether this is gonna be a department by department decision. You may not have the answer there, miss Wewell, but, you know, if as you're considering this, if that's the conversation that comes up, it would be helpful to know if that's influencing the timeline of implementation and and the strategy for implementation.

Yeah. I'm not sure if the administration has, any sort of poll not policy, but direction on that. You know, I I think, though, like, if I could just share, sometimes as staff, we do try to play with it and just see if it could work. And our ex just anecdotally, like, counselor Albury is kinda spits out the wrong information. It doesn't account for things like nonconformities. So I think even if we were to I don't even know if it's possible to use it for, you know, a zoning capacity, but I think we might as well do it instead of have to check, like, a machine or AI. Mhmm.

Okay. Anything other other questions for planning before we go to the concern? Okay. And I don't think there's any questions specifically for the CPA area. There's no questions on here specifically. So let's do ISD next. So you can come, yeah, to the table, commissioner.

So

there's some general questions here, and I don't know. Do you use any consultants? I do not. Okay. But you may wanna take a look at a few of those general ones we went through. And then the ISD, I'll read them off. And if you wanna say anything about it and if anybody else has questions. Number one, is ISD properly staffed to meet demands for inspections, permitting, and enforcement? Two, what are the biggest bottlenecks? Plan review.

For example, plan review, inspections, enforcement, customer response times, etcetera. Three, if one additional f e FTE were added, where would it have the greatest impact? Four, would adding staff reduce reliance on consultants or overtime? Five, what is the greatest need within ISD? What would be the most effective financial investment within the department?

Six, how can ISD keep ZAP appraised of feedback quote from the counter? For example, questions from builders and homeowners, interpretation of zoning, etcetera. Seven, are there any additional processes to put in place to reduce zoning violations rather than a complaint driven system? Beyond additional inspectors in the field identifying violations, are there additional legal resources that can be used to prevent them from occurring? Is it possible to add a tier fee schedule for violations?

First, second, third infraction. Eight, is it possible to add a surcharge for demolition based on the tonnage removed from the site? Nine, capture the questions asked at the ISD counter. Good idea. Oh, Is there a need for additional information to be distributed to the counter?

You get off light there. For sure. Right. Any comments? Or I mean,

one additional full time employee would be an electrical inspector due to the fossil fuel fuel ordinance going on in the city and the combined with the new energy codes that mostly most new, if not all new phones, are all electric now anyways. So there's a a bit of a strain. We have three full timers now with a part timer that fills in when they're on vacation or out sick from out sick. And so we're gonna see another electrical inspector.

Okay. Let's get you on. Anybody oh, I see some hands. Councilor Kalis.

Commissioner, I'm sure I've asked this before or somebody has, but how do you keep track of all the special permits? Do you need, more systems to be able to do that? Does does something come up, like, when something is, you know, time based where you need to check on it? Like, is there an alarm? Is or is it really solely complaint driven?

So are you talking about just, if someone came to the counter, wanted to do some work on their home or or or a developer came in, how would we know there's a special permit on it? Is that what you're asking?

No. The special permits that are that are already passed, and we're supposed to be monitoring to make sure that they're within the the the law.

After it's been completed, you mean?

Yes.

And, Katie could probably confirm this with me, but I believe there's somebody in planning that does that already.

Yeah. I can kind of I think to explain the link between inspectional services and planning, not only kind of being the stewards of the zoning ordinance, you know, planning, It takes the special permit through the public process. And then if it's approved, you know, it gets recorded. At that, we use the permitting software for, you know, changing sort of the status of a property to indicate that it has a special permit. We upload the decision to the main landing page that we see as staff so that kinda communicates, hey.

There's a special permit here. It kinda, you know, then transitions from planning to inspectional services. I think with the all of the conditions that get attached to special permits. You know, those are typically phased at building permit occupancy. But then for some of the larger projects, we have post occupancy conditions.

On the observation deck. I wanna sit on

the farm.

So we've been working we, meaning planning, have been working on a record type in NewGov to flag post occupancy conditions. So that creates a new record. It gets put into staff members inbox in new gov, and that's how we track it. So, for example, I had one. It was around one of the cannabis retailers that had a parking monitor attached to it on Boylston Street.

So I was responsible for sort of the implementation of that condition that was placed. But we work pretty closely with the commissioner and his team on, you know, if there's zoning enforcement requested, we'll try to get the zoning code, enforcement officer the, you know, the decision, the correct decision, the most up to date decision, and then work with them on that. So I hope that kind of helps, but happy to work with the commissioner on following up with any of those questions.

That's great. That's great. Is there I mean, because to me, it probably it sounds my my guess is that in the first year, these projects are within compliance. It's then you get up to year five and maybe 10 where they're just like, maybe not. So it's it's those years, those out years that I'm more concerned about actually. Actually. And do we have somebody that looks at those, or is that or or no? Because we don't have the resources. And maybe we shouldn't say this publicly. I'm not sure.

I suggest you hold the answer to that question till later.

I'm fine with that.

Okay. Are you done?

Yes.

Okay. Counselor Albright.

So I I I do wanna just pursue that a little bit, and that is, you know, because of a recent discovery through the Newton Country Day School's current project. You know, I found a 9799 special permit that said there had to be a vegetative buffer, and now there are kids parking there. And and I I I I wanna know if you can put a process in place to at least try and look at all the old special permits. I don't know if it's once a year, once every two years, once every three years. Find them get a process in place to make sure that we look at all the old special permits periodically and see if if they are out of compliance or not.

I'm bet I'm guessing many of them are out of compliance. So I know the recent list as councilor Kayla said, the recent ones are probably in good shape, but I think we need to think about a process to make sure we're looking at the old ones. At least once every three years, something like that.

That would be a lot of special permits that we would all have to look at.

I know. But what's the point of having conditions in special permits if we don't look at it?

I'm saying that, you know, it's it's it's an issue, but that that would almost require somebody just to be on full time just going back looking at all the other special permits, and that would be their primary job. It would be it sounds to me that would be to go back and and check these special permits and to make sure they were in compliance.

Well, some that's something we should talk about at budget time. Do how much value is there in these conditions if you don't go back and check on them?

And also trying to find the the older special permits. I mean, thankfully for NewGov, we can most of all, if not all, current special permits are on the the new software. At some point, we would have liked to have the city clerk because they are the keeper of special permit or the keeper of the records, go through possibly all of the files, the of of special permits, And then upload them to the addresses that that have these. You know? There be times when we'll go into the property file.

We won't even find a special permit in there sometimes, but there will be a special permit on there, and and it becomes a problem. So I

So that that is that is a problem, and we should address that. Yeah. Whether it's the clerk's office or your office or whose office, we should figure out how to make that happen. Mhmm. Because that was the whole point of getting the permitting system so that we could

Well, obviously, it'd be more more in tune with with all of the permits that we have, including special permits. And I think it's done a good job for current, but we need the all the older ones to be uploaded and be gone through.

Yeah. I agree. If they're not, they should be. So we should talk about who's gonna do it and who's who's gonna pay for it. Mhmm.

That's it. Well Do you have a guesstimate of how many special products are out there? I have no idea. Like, 20,000?

I have no idea. No. K.

Good. Just Wait. Wait. Wait. There's a couple other people too. Counselor Baker.

Thank you. Again, I'm having trouble with my video. But, again, I think these are legitimate questions for the budget, and I hope that the process will involve the clerk of the committee taking some of these oral comments and questions and making sure they're consolidated and reorganizing the information so that it can be provided to both departments in advance of their budget discussion. But beyond that, I just want to mention my memory was in a prior administration, there was an effort to take old special permits, legacy special permits that were in writing and scan them in and make sure they were available electronically. I'm not sure whatever happened to that initiative, but it's one of those questions that may be worth following up.

I think they've done a lot of

And I think

I think on on the ISV website on, new gov, some of the old permits are slowly coming out.

Yeah. So we'll see We have the DSAs in our office during the day at downtime. They're going through all of the property files that we have, and they're putting them to digital. So what where are we up to then then?

Where on?

We're on the street. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And you're going alphabetically. Basic. Okay.

And and we've got through you know, there's the files. Anthony, what? Other than lunch. Yeah. I know that. And we have to offer the large files like BC, the the mall, the street, all of those places that we're saving all those for for last. Once we get through all the roads, obviously, Washington Street, Wanatau Street, they're two very large streets. They're gonna take a while. But I think we had estimated Kristen had estimated somewhere around two to three to maybe I think two to three years to complete the streets. Then you've been at ISD where we have the movable rolling files.

The idea is to get rid of those then to consolidate all of the larger permits into a lateral file underneath the ISD counter and then continue with them and, you know, free up the movement of space. Mhmm. Ideally, we'd love to bring the electrical and plumbing inspectors up and have them in the same office as we are.

Counselor Gets? Yeah. Well, the only other thought that I

was having was that, you know, I think that this is actually a law review, you know, in the sense of looking at the conditions and then highlighting them and then putting them on a timeline so that then if some someone is supposed to annually and I remember counselor Danberg talking about payments and that the payments weren't being followed. You know? And that's the kind of thing where they need to be, you know, into some sort of calendar so that then it's, like, flagged in some way with the property.

I I I think, planning does that already, Katie.

Yeah. So I'm not sure which payments counselor Danberg was referring to, but I know since, attorney Temple and I have worked on standardizing special permit conditions, we actually tie it to a phase of development. So whether it's the building permit or the occupancy permit, that's when we, you know, have the most leverage to get the, conditions complied with. I can't I think I think there's a history of special permits that we sort of question why did they do it this way? You know, maybe the payment was just they shall make this payment period.

And there was no time frame tied to it. So then as staff that gives that doesn't help us. But those are pretty old. So I think, you know, I'm sure the commissioner has seen some pretty quirky special permits too where you're kinda scratching your head and saying, why was this written this way? And, I think we've done a lot of work the last few years to standardize things, make things more predictable, you know, less sort of copy and paste from an old decision and, you know, getting getting it right and having it make sense and tied to appropriate phases.

Okay. Any other questions from counselors on pre budget discussion? No. So should we what should we see on this? What's the margin? What? Well, it's

pre budget, so it's it's either one hand or a hold, I would think. And Yeah. We're gonna get to budget conversations in A month. Early well, a little bit longer, I would think. Right? Because we start on the

twenty seventh. Okay? Yeah. My son

So so that's an AM? I think so.

I think that's appropriate.

Yep. Okay. All those in favor?

Or Oh, do need a motion? Motion to NAN.

Okay. Okay. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Anyone opposed? Abstain? Okay. I think it's a eight zero.

It is definitely unanimous.

Yeah. Was this helpful, miss Wiewel and commissioner? Was this helpful? Yep.

I'm ahead of time.

Okay. Good. Okay. So the second and last item we have for tonight is 55 dash 26, update on short term rental ordinance, compliance, and enforcement. Councilors Baker, Maliki, Gets, Farrell, and Kelly requesting an update on short term rental ordinance, compliance, and enforcement, including data on registrations, complaints, investigations, and fines issued, types of violation being found, I e, non owner occupied room limit limits, annual time limits, other code variations like noise, health and safety, trash, ability to compare STRs registered with the city versus registered with the state versus listings on public platforms, ability to obtain listing information from STR, which is short term rental companies, adequacy of resources or other obstacles to enforcement.

Okay. It's all you. Well,

last year, at this time, we had a goal of nine for the for the entire year registered short term rentals.

Just nine registered? Yeah.

For the entire year. This year, we've currently registered 24. Oh, that's great. K? Here, we have seven in process of being registered.

Sometimes that takes a bit of a time because we we typically find them on the short term rental sites, Airbnb, VBRO. And so we can find them relatively easily. I can tell you they're probably starting to maybe have an uptick because the World Cup is coming in in the summer. So but we've been keeping an eye on it, and Andy Van Volles has been doing a great job at it. So far, we have $27,000 in violation of letter fines. 32 civil tickets have been issued since November.

How many?

32. That totaled to 21,300. Roughly half half of that's been paid. We actually for the short term rentals, we actually have them pay the fine before registering. They can't register without paying the fine.

So some we've caught that said they won't do it anymore or and because they don't wanna pay the fine. And other than that, some they just succumb and they just pay the fine. We also have four of the civil fines that are up for appeal in district court because they they have the right to appeal. I don't know how they're gonna do. Sometimes the court is very lenient as we as we've seen with the leaf blower violations.

I'm assuming it's gonna probably do the same thing. Maybe say, hey. Don't do it again. And you know? But we usually find the people who are a few defenders, and we'll tell them to take their ad down. They take it down. A

couple

days later, it's back up, and then we start issuing tickets. Once we see it's up again, and then we just to try and make them understand. You you can't do it. The mainly, the best way we've been able to find them is that they don't have the registration, the new registration in the app. And, mainly, that's how we find both of them.

Sending out letters, that was one of the ways we were gonna try and and and find most of these isn't working as well as we thought it would. We've we've also found people who have returned the letter saying that they they they are no longer doing it, but then we buy them online, and they're not doing it. So we're trying to we'll probably still send the letters out, but maybe not in larger sums, maybe smaller, maybe 10 at a time to through the state's list to try and see if we can get a response back. Because, basically, we give them a return response that they're supposed to get back to us saying that they either are operating or they're not operating or don't intend on operating. So so when we get that back, at least we have an idea.

If we find them online, laying around, we could say, hey. Well, you said that you were operating, but because we've had a few of those too. And sometimes the properties get sold, and it's not even the right person. And they're not doing any short term rentals whatsoever. What else?

So, yeah, basically, we'll look online, and we'll see if because even on the short term rental sites, they also run for long term, greater than thirty days. And if we see the ad up there with the STR registration, that's great. If we don't see an STR registration and my dad says that they're renting for more than thirty days, they comply. Mhmm. Other things.

God bless you. Thank you. I would like to maybe make is a couple of alterations to the ordinance 20 dash one sixty one d. There's a ordinance that says three or more violation enforcement of the provision. You get a six month suspension. Okay? These suspensions are really they they really don't work. Okay? They pause all enforcement, drag things out, and in the meantime, they'll still rent in in the meantime. So it's it's just very difficult to get a handle on.

So what should I do change to?

Remove it altogether.

Three more violations. Just

I mean, if you count just the the ticket violations that they get as violations Yeah. It'd all be suspended from the beginning.

Yeah. Just a What amount is what are they being what's the amount they're being ticketed?

$300.

$300.

Each violation.

And how much is it to register?

I believe it's a $100.

So I have questions. Yeah. So how many how many that are listed in the state's registry do you think we're we how many do we have to go? Is it

is it, like, 30? 200. 200? A 175, somewhere around that. Okay.

So we have a ways to go still.

Yeah. It's gonna be a a process. Okay. Yep.

So there's a 175 in the state registering?

I believe between one seventy five and two hundred. I know we probably got rid of 25 through you remember that? We sent out 77 letters. Yeah.

And I don't know the number of what we got back that was actually registered. Right.

Okay. What platforms are you looking at?

VRBO, Airbnb, mainly the the the ones that we've been looking at. Okay.

I don't know if other people might know of other platforms that they can tell us.

Mean, there are I think

there are some others too. What's the other one? Yeah.

There are many of them, but they all feed off of each other. Yeah. These are mainly the biggest two that you're gonna get the most out of enforcement. Okay. Okay? A lot of times people will own two family, and they'll rent the upstairs while they're the downstairs, which you cannot do. And we explained to them, you can't do that. If you wanna rent that out for thirty days, that's greater than thirty days or more. That's fine. But the short term rental has to be the the principal unit that you live in. So and sometimes they don't understand, but we make them understand. That's good. Mhmm. Yeah. So

if it's not allowed to rent out an upstairs unit if you're living downstairs

And the short term rental.

Well, up to three months. Well, no.

You're not. Like, you can't at all. You have to live there. Yeah. If you're living on the 1st Floor, you can't be living above.

Yeah. So

if you're living on the 1st Floor, you can only rent above floors for longer than three months?

No. Longer longer than thirty days.

Longer than thirty days.

You cannot do anything short term.

No. Thirty days or more, actually, is the way it is. Alright. Thanks. But

you can rent out your own apartment, the whole apartment. Let's say you go to The Cape for the summer.

Well, the whole apartment as long as it's only three bedrooms Yeah. And up to nine people.

Yeah. And up to three months where you can rent out your whole apartment.

And a lot of these Airbnbs, people are there, and they rent out a room, and someone comes you know, you don't have to. The house doesn't have to be vacant in order to rent it.

Do you register for that scenario?

That is just registering for a short term rental.

Yeah. That's what

I do. If it's gonna be for, you know, weekend or week or whatever, or someone's in town for maybe a wedding or something, they need a place to stay, you know, that that would that would work out. That wouldn't be a problem as long as you would register.

Counselor Baker, you have your hand up.

Thanks. This is a longer range question, but I I appreciate the commissioner's effort and to notify the people and who registered for the state. This is a question I have is maybe we can get an answer for an update in the future whether in fact, we can do anything with the state to require parallel registration with the local governments in which have a short term rental ordinance. Because it seems to me that there is a value here from the state perspective to have people comply at both levels. And so this may be an opportunity to look ahead with our state delegation to figure out if there's some either regulatory or even legislative response that would enable the state to say, register for us, you also must register with the local government that if there is one.

Because the whole point of here is to maintain our long term rental stock, not have it diverted into short term rentals, and, we work very hard in that direction. And I think that if applaud the commissioner's effort, and we wanna keep him active in that effort and but give him all the tools we can. Thanks.

Counselor Gutz. Yeah. The only

other thought that I'm having is it seems like you there's quite a bit of time investment, you know, within ASD

Yep.

To resolve this. Yeah. Do you think that you're actually being effective, you know, in terms of, like it sort of seems like you're halfway through. You know, if

not Yeah. Well, I I didn't mean to.

No. No. No. I'm just sort of saying

I it's gonna take time. Just like any enforcement takes time. I mean, if there are a 175 out there, you're gonna work through. There is investigation work that you have to do. You have to go online. You have to find out, okay. Is is this a new trying to find it is a little bit of a work, but we we we've been getting much better at it. And he he really is. He's a wizard. He can find most of any place. And but, you know, it's it it takes time. And then you send out the violation tickets. Sometimes you don't get a response, usually, these tickets are what have been getting the biggest response. That's what's bringing them in. Not your regular zoning violations that we used to send out.

It it it doesn't that really doesn't produce much of a a response from from the violators. But you send them a $1,200 I mean, a, you know, $1,200 ticket, they come into the cab. K? And it it it's it's worth blunders. I'll tell you that much. And, you know, and Deb Finamore here has has put this whole system together that basically, you're just clicking on these tickets, you're sending them out as quick as they as quick as we get. It's been fantastic. New gov has been phenomenal with this. So, like,

300 it's $300 a day then?

Per per violation.

$300

day. If you're not registered and you don't have your number up on the registration, that's $600 right there. Okay? And if you're renting more than in Indiana, if it shows you're renting more than nine nine people, that that's another violation. If you're renting more than three bedrooms, that's another violation. So it it adds up quick. Yeah.

I was wondering if it was just 300, how it came to that amount. So makes sense. I'm kinda curious, though. Do most of the people you contact, are they doing this intentionally? And it's only a $100 to register, or do they not do they genuinely not know?

Some don't realize you have to register. Some you find out they've doing it for nine, ten years. And I I can tell you also, we get very little complaints if none from residents.

Good. So it's been working then.

Well, I'm just saying if even with the ones that are out there now, we really don't get many complaints at all that I can see from most of this is being found by by, you know, our Andy Benavonis, pretty much.

I mean, before we had we were getting a lot of We

were getting some complaints, but, you know, they're about Like everything else, there are some that, you know, get complaints and some, you know, like I said, some of these were going on for nine, ten, twelve years. Yeah. And then they don't realize give them that day that they don't realize. What would help is probably putting something in the mayor's newsletter about this Mhmm. Saying about, you know, hey. Shut your rentals. Let's not forget. You have to be registered in the city of Newton, advertised with the City Of Newton registration number in order to be compliant Mhmm. With the ordinance.

Yeah. Because right now, Airbnb is putting out announcements looking for

places to They have actually given bonuses. Yes. For World Cup people. They're about 4 or $500. Mhmm. Yeah. So we've seen those on YouTube.

Yeah. So it'd be good idea that Which is intended for people who

don't normally do it to actually, you know, rent it out. Hey. We can make a few extra bucks here. But, again, if we find a, like, we'll we give them time to respond. Okay? We'll send them a letter. We give them up to about ten twelve days, sir.

I'm sorry. From which letter?

For what do you When

we send multiple letters. Yeah.

I know. There's well, there's one we send

out is asking them if they do it.

If they do it also.

And then letter is we you're in violation. You have seven days to correct it or contact us, and then the first ticket goes out after that. Yeah.

So we give them a chance to respond and and for them to get the mail, to get the actual notice. Yeah. Okay.

Any other questions? Yes. Counselor

Maliki. So you said there were a couple of things that you would suggest changing, one of them being the getting rid of that suspension thing. So the alternative to that would be you just keep up sending

You just keep sending the things. Yes. Yes. Tickets.

And that actually gets the money.

Well, it's I think you're gonna get a a quicker turnaround of someone to be compliant. Again, because the six month suspension just okay. Just wait around for the general rent. Mhmm.

Or Oh. We'll be caught again. But if you if they're suspended, quote, unquote, suspended Yeah. And you catch them still renting, is that an extra fine?

Anytime you see them, like, they've been, you know, violating the ordinance, it's a problem. Uh-huh. So it it and it's very difficult to keep track of. Tracking these things is just it's difficult.

Is this where AI would help?

No. I don't know would help with this. Okay? But, you know, it's it's just a it's an adulose process to to keep track of all these. And he keeps a whole spreadsheet on the ones that he's looked at, and he and he has it all color coded. He's very arrogant, so I'll put it that way to the point of frustration. You're right. But he he he does a wonderful drug.

And if you reach the fines, so they either pay the fine, they appeal it.

Yeah.

Are there ones who just don't respond and wait for them?

Oh, then then when they have to call If they don't respond at all, then at that point, we could always take them to court. Okay.

And has that had to happen much?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said, there are, I think, two going for appeal. Oh. Or you said? Yeah. First of all, try and schedule you appeal in court.

Now those tickets went out over a month or two ago. Yeah. And we don't have a court hearing until May. So in that time frame, we can't do anything. We can't. Because they're appealing, so all our work has to stop. Everything's We can't pick it up again until May 6.

Can you issue new two tickets if they keep advertising while they're appealing an old ticket?

No. The whole thing stops. Yeah. Stop everything.

So their best way to keep keep running an illegal Airbnb without getting fined is to appeal those fine? Sounds like. Yep. Is there a way

to fix that? That's court, not us.

I think his recommendation to remove that section makes a huge amount of sense. Before he brought it up, I was looking at it thinking this makes no sense. Because if you feel it and everything, enforcement will pause.

Madam chair?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Councilor Baker?

So I'm I'm I'm gonna move hold on this item because I think that some of the things can be modified as we've talked about. But, also, I do think it's worth having a conversation with a law department, because I don't think we want to necessarily deny someone the right to appeal, but if there's someone who's operating illegally, in the meantime, I'm I'm troubled that the commissioner's office has no recourse. So I'd like to have an opportunity to explore that with law department and bring the item back later at another time with the commissioner, and, our law department involved.

I do wanna say one more one more thing as far as, we require them to give us an affidavit every year that has to be signed by them and notarized. I would probably rather get rid of the notarization part of it out and just have them give us a signed letter.

Right. Why why they

because that always it always results in some sort of issue. Well, we didn't know it had to be notarized, and why do we have to get it notarized? Wouldn't my signature be fine? And you know what? I'm fine with your signature. If you're gonna give me that affidavit saying you're operating, whether it's signed by signed by you or notarized by a notary, I don't care. Okay? As long as I get it.

Okay. Counsel Roch.

I just would be sure that the the notarizing doesn't have some sort of different legal effect.

So I'm with you Mhmm.

Because it seems like an unnecessary obstacle to have them comply, and we want them to comply. So I'm

totally with you. Right.

I would just check with legal who may say, yeah. That would be nice, except if they notarize it, it has this legal consequence.

We can do that. Yeah. That's all. Yep.

Okay.

Elser Allergus. Just real quick.

You know, when it comes to the alterations or at least your thinking on the alterations to the ordinance Yep. You know, are you guys gonna bring that forward when you're ready, or or, like, is that gonna come to us?

Yeah. Well, we'll we'll we've been talking about the law department. And Yeah. We we're just talking. To change it. I know. We can

the

I If we are gonna

make the changes, I just wanna know that they're coming that you guys are on it. You're gonna have that conversation with law, whether it's right now or in the future. In the future. Yes.

Okay. Okay.

I think the committee can commit create a prince too if we need an amendment. This is the discussion and reporting item, I think. I can't remember the full text.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it included changes to the ordinance. But Mhmm. If if we wanna talk about changes, somebody's gotta start that process is really all I'm asking.

Yeah. I mean, if

you could mark

it up what you want, like that one section out and whatever. Yeah. And then bring it by law or mister Lee, and then, you know, bring it to planning, and we can make those changes. Because we wanna make your job as easy as possible.

You sure? I I I can tell you.

Okay. Anything else?

I don't have anything else to add. Okay.

Any other questions? So I think counselor Baker said you recommended to hold. Yep. Okay. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye. Any

nays? Abstain? Nope. Eight zero. Okay. So I think that's it. Oh, great. We'll be adjourning the meeting at 08:01PM. Great. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, madam vice chair, and all the members and the clerk.

K. Okay.

Thank you. Bye.

Bye.

Recording stopped.

So I don't know where he is, but it looks a lot nicer than it is here.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I'm in

California visiting family for Persian New Year.

No. You've been a while. I'm sorry.

By the way, next time

you're in California

and you join via Zoom, you know, remotely, like, just turn your camera off. Just

a you want a snow background or something? Don't worry. I'll be home tomorrow to enjoy the cold with y'all.

That's acceptable as well. Thank you. And I was

I was there for security for

a while. Oh, yeah. He's been there.

So far, so good. Knock on wood.

Know. Donald threw yesterday through Orlando, and he said it took him seven minutes. That's it.

From age, Cedric. Yeah. I watch ABC News and people waiting five, like, five hours. Yeah. They're in airports. Well,

yeah. Yeah. The Guardian.

Oh,

yeah. But what's happening? Hold on.

That's that's