City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everybody. Welcome. It is the August 3rd Newburgh City Council. I call this meeting to order. Rachel, could we have a roll call, please?

Certainly. Councillor McBride?

Here. Deal is offered.

We'll come take a look at it. Councillor Wheatley?

Here.

Councillor Yarnell-Holliman is online. Let's see.

Here.

Yep. Sorry.

Here. Here.

Councilor Kilburg?

Mine's dead too.

Ah, okay. We'll figure that out in a second. Mayor Rossacker?

Here.

Let me see. Councilor Tergesen? Here. And Councilor Carman? I see the problem and I can fix it in two seconds. I do not see Councilor Carman.

Would everybody please stand and join in the Pledge of Allegiance? Oh, am I the culprit? Nobody downstairs has to talk tonight.

Rachel, I'm here. Just thought I'd let you know. Tasting.

Well, this is time for your narrative, which we all enjoy.

Honorable Mayor and Councillor, this is the monthly events for July of 2026. Capital Engineering. The River Street Ad Hoc Committee meeting number 3 was held July 16 to further review typical section number 4. This meeting also began a review of a proposed local policy for tree replacement and had different tree preferences for either side of the street depending upon where the electricity line is. It's hoped that after the next meeting, which will be this month, we may be ready to run a request for proposal based upon all of these options. City Recorder planned and held a highly successful America 250 celebration, process bids for a replacement from ORMS moving over to Laserfiche in order to answer questions that were posed about the lack of good searching capability in ORMS. So we're looking at moving to a new platform. She also did many other things, including a full inventory of public meeting records and managing election filings. Library news. This month, the library celebrated America 250 birthday with a lobby display and 250 booklets on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and these were given out in just two days. Summer reading is busier than ever, and we're heading towards a record-breaking number for this summer. In July, the library hosted The Paradise of Samoa Dancers, Creature Teachers Showing Weird Animals, Red Yarn Music Show, well, I'd say the Red Yarn guy's actually as much a comedian as he is a performer, and the Oregon Forest Resources Institute on Trees, Regular Book Club, Storytimes, Lego Club, and more. And the Newburgh Library Board is currently working on its next five-year strategic plan, and a survey is available for community input from the library part of the website, if anybody wants to have a look at that. And here are some slides. Parents sent in a picture of her kid who loves the library, and the library mascot dresses up as Bat Tato for hiding in the library for a week. And yes, as you can see, That TATO is lurking in the rafters next to the fire suppression pipe. Community development. The hive is in final is approved. Building permits submitted for Crestview Green, approximately 20 so far. Deannexation approved for the 28 acres in Southwest Newburgh, as you recall. Recommendation made to Yamhill County to approve additional queuing lanes and other traffic mitigation for the transfer station, as you know. And the Senate Bill 1537, urban growth boundary, one-time expansion proposals were due on 7-31. And the Community Development Director is reviewing the public art mural program to recommend process improvements in concert with the Public Arts Council. Initiatives in IT, we are retiring our Merky and Zen mobile device management platforms and migrating everything to a new system called Microsoft Intune. This transition will provide a more unified, secure, and efficient device management solution across the organization. And I can reveal that I, your city manager, are one of the guinea pigs and they've just moved my phone onto the new platform. So, so far so good, but I will reveal that my calendar has vanished. So we're working on that. We're continuing to work on and refine our Azure environment, focusing on lots of optimizations to deal with current and future needs. Public works operations and wastewater we did all of those things including repairing the head workstation pump checking lift stations and Cleaning reuse skid B screen and the screens are some of the things that sort junk out of the flow before it can get into the oxidation ditch and the stuff that comes out of the screen is really interesting if you've ever had a look in that dumpster and And public works water activities for July. Yearly water main flushing valve exercising is going on. Meter replacements, replacing broken valve cans and lids, repairing problem valves around the city. And there are a few pictures showing some of the valves that have been replaced or fixed. The curb painting is 100% done for this year. And the mastic for potholing was at 60% level for the season, meaning that of all the identified potholes, 60% were completed. The new streets team is trying to have all of the potholing finished this year, 100%. And I believe they're probably going to get there. In the sewer storm activities, water quality pond maintenance has been happening, including cutting back some overgrown vegetation. Catch basin cleaning, sewer lateral replacements have been happening. Sweeping and storm mainline cleaning and video work is ongoing. And actually, I've got a video which I need to show council the next time I have an opportunity showing one of the laterals. We TV'd a lateral line before and after we put the plastic liner in it to show you how that works. So that's coming to a council soon. And in fleet management, police vehicles preventative maintenance service and repairs continue. School district vans preventive maintenance is ongoing because we have a contract with them to do that. And public works maintenance, preventive maintenance is also continuing on. In water wastewater, we've completed lots of repairs recently. A leak in the hypochlorite dosing system. Now, I know you've noticed that I frequently mention that we're often working on the hypochlorite system. It's just a difficult system to maintain. It has pressure, it has a very powerful chemical balance, and therefore it frequently needs us to work on it. Flushing and leak repairing on the water plant hydroxide dosing line, which is part of the same system, has occurred. Auto greasing the composter system. And of course, annual flow meter certification and inspections of the crane that we have. And here are some of the many water activities for June. Monthly streets activities in June, phase two of the crack ceiling, Hillsdale Drive, Ivy Drive and Oak Knoll on track to be finished on time. And actually that probably is finished by now. And rehabilitation and grading in many parts of town have occurred, as well as access roads to one of the city sheds have been regraded. And with the crack sealing that was done on Mountain View and Springbrook last year, we are just about to slurry seal that entire section. And then that will get that in a very good condition for the next six or seven years. Binance, in July, we had a new court clerk who started working with Dundee to move court functions over to the Newburgh Court, submitted the LB50 and UR50 to the county, and met with Wilsonville to discuss fleet fund budgeting options. And we are currently considering developing a more robust fleet fund. But that is not yet ready for prime time. This is an idea that we have had. And seeing if we can amalgamate several funds into one fleet fund, we don't know yet for sure. We released the budget calendar to department heads for very early biannual budget planning. And some eager beavers are already getting some of their BCRs filled out ahead of us thinking about that at the end of this year. HR goings on, HR onboarded six new employees, completed the request for coverage with CIS for annual insurance renewal. We have requested a live webinar to be presented by the insurance reps for employees to hear about benefit options for open enrollment in 2026. And NDPD, Animal Rescue by Reserve Chapin and Wallace, they responded to a citizen report of a dog whimpering down the ravine, found a 15-year-old Lola injured and down in the blackberries. The dog had been missing and had been subject to missing dog flyers in the area, and Lola was reunited with her owner, who took her straight to the vet, and it looks like she's doing okay. Officers also attended the 4th of July Kids Parade, and the reminder, National Night Out, Tuesday, August the 4th, tomorrow, Memorial Park, 4 till 7pm, and I'll be cooking the hot dogs as usual. And here is that ravine doggy rescue. And Reserve Wallace, Officer Fergus, Officer McDonagh and Reserve Wheatley for the kids' 4th of July parade. And he's a smashing bloke. And here is the National Night Out reminder. And I know you'll be there and I'll serve you a hot dog. And community engagement activities for July, prepared for the Newburgh Old Fashioned Festival, hosted a booth to connect with residents and visitors. The booth was staffed by several employee volunteers from all different departments. And our public affairs officer, Emily, coordinated activities, scheduled the booth as well as staffing it for a lot of the time herself. Worked with HR to share information about job openings and promoted our national night out as discussed. What a great Newburgh old-fashioned festival. I will say that the poop bag holders were a massive hit with everybody and we're going to have to increase our stock of canine poop bag holders for next time because they were very popular. So that's it for a smashing July. As you can see, residents' tax dollars were hard at work as they always are. Any questions, folks?

I have one comment about the display in the Cultural Center of the Art. What is a creature? You said creature teacher? Okay. It is truly amazing. If you have not seen it, it is one-third of a national display. The other two-thirds, one's in Seattle. I don't remember where the other one is. But all of the artworks are made out of formerly living things, and it's pretty amazing. So next, I'm going to open public comments, and we have one public comment. Alicia? Alicia? Welcome. Good to see you.

Hello, counselors. Uh, my name is Lisa Adams. I live in Newberg. Um, I have just a suggestion. I am one of many people who primarily engages with the city council on YouTube by watching committee and council meetings on YouTube. Um, and I don't know if you've ever checked out the YouTube videos of council. But the majority of the screen is what you're seeing up here. And approximately 10% of the screen is a wide shot of the dais. And I know that city council and the government and the staff of the city have been working on accommodations. And I would just like to suggest that those priorities could maybe even be flipped or use some other technology for giving people better access to what's going on in council. In the committee meetings, it's a little bit easier. I watched the River Street Committee meeting and it has the technology that you sometimes use for executive sessions where it follows people's faces. So the people who are speaking show up on the screen, but you can also see what they're looking at. And I think for people who are hard of hearing and people who have various neurological disorders, It's much, much easier to follow who's speaking, what's going on, even with subtitles, because our subtitles aren't captioned with the name of the speaker. It's very hard to keep track of which person is speaking, whether that person is sitting on council or sitting at this table presenting or giving comments. It's not easy to distinguish between the two. So I just wanted to come and make that small suggestion that maybe that's something that can be looked at just to make council meetings a little more accessible for everyone. Thank you.

Thank you. So now we're going to close public comments. We're going to move right to item number seven, presentations, introduction of the new HR manager, Jenna Gray. Welcome, Jenna. Thank you. Good to have you here. Thank you.

So no presentation, but I like to just verbally, you know, provide my introduction to the council. I met many of you, not you in person Friday, but nice to see you. So kind of just a little bit of a background about me. This is my first public sector position. However, within my experience working with private organizations, I've You know, most recently Danner Boots, La Crosse Footwear. I was with them for six years and they had an established union there for their manufacturing, all of their Oregon retail stores and also their distribution. So their unionized workforce was much larger than the city here. But, you know, so it was a larger union as well. So I have a lot of experience going through negotiations, bargaining, you Most recently in 2025, going through a bargaining negotiation session to ratify their contract from start to finish. And so I have a lot of union experience there. And then prior to that, I worked more in the construction industry. So I worked with land development companies and then also paving companies. I grew up in construction, building houses with my father. And so I gravitated to that industry. And that's why also manufacturing, it was a good fit for me as well. And then prior to that, I was in the retail industry for about 12 years. Starting out in HR, I started about age 19. And so I've been in it a long time. Finally, getting my bachelor's from Portland State University in 2020. A little bit later on in life, but that's okay. Navigating children and everything. And that was a challenge in itself with being able to juggle all that while trying to maintain, you know, a family and graduating school and working full time as well. So and then currently in my master's program with public administration, still specializing specifically in HR is really important as well. And then also in 2026, I was also awarded the Portland Business Journal HR Leadership Award. And so that was a huge milestone for me. And the ceremony was amazing. And that nomination was specifically I had to be nominated from people within the organization for that award. And I was selected from the panel with the Portland Business Journal this year. Kind of, you know, this is my fifth week here, so I'm jumping right in. And so far it's been, you know, extraordinary process and just learning, you know, everybody connecting. I'm all about connecting and making those relationships. And so that's where my priority has been, bouncing around, getting to know everybody personally so I can, you know, connect with them when they come to my office or, you know, connect with them personally is really important. Um, but also, you know, jumping right into, you know, coming in 2027 to our CBAs getting ratified and going through negotiations again. So looking at our CBAs, what type of things can be brought forward, what type of things, you know, you know, meeting with both unions specifically before that to look at any gaps, you know, and just maintaining that relationship is really huge for me as well with both unions. Um, and then also, you know, looking specifically at CLAC, CLAC class and comp studies as well this year is a huge project for me. And then also rewriting our handbook. You know, the handbook currently is what written very well, but I actually have written quite a few handbooks. And so I hopefully will be able to bring some, you know, new writing styles to it and just elaborate a little bit more on our employee handbook as well. That's where I'm at in the five weeks I've been here. But I appreciate, you know, taking the time and taking the slot and meeting you all and being here. Yeah. Any questions at all for me? I'm sure we'll see more of each other, but we'll.

Not a question, a comment.

Yeah.

I was extremely concerned about Alison retiring, and I will say publicly I'm far less concerned now.

Appreciate that.

So thank you for being here.

Allison was a powerhouse. She did very well. So, but yeah, I hope to do just as well and prove my capabilities to you all. So anything else?

Thank you very much. I think I can speak for the whole council that We it looks like we're going to have a long relationship with you. So please hang around and do good work. We we're looking forward to it.

I appreciate that, Mayor. Thank you.

Now, I'm sure everybody noticed that I skipped over item number six. Since this affects the chief's department, he got called out or something. He wasn't able to be here. So with your permission, I'm going to put this off until the next opportunity. The chief is here to to be part of it. All right. So next, that brings us to item number eight, the consent calendar. Would anybody like to make a comment or make a motion? Robin?

I move we accept the consent calendar. Approve the consent calendar. Second.

It has been moved and seconded to approve the consent calendar. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All opposed, nay. All right. Mission passes unanimously. Elyse, I forgot you were there. You about scared me.

I'm sorry. That's so awkward.

No, you're fine. Welcome. And item number nine, new business. Main Street Water Line Replacement.

So this is Mike Grimes, and he is one of our engineering inspectors. And one of the things that we did when we did our engineering team reorganization a few years back is we moved project management down a level inside the organization and let some of the guys who never had the chance before to be project managers of specific projects. And so Mike has been managing that for us. And the item that lies before you this evening is a resolution to award construction contract for the main street water line replacement and its alternate B. Because what we did is we tried to see if we could afford to do the whole thing in one biennium because pipe prices were trending down. Now it didn't pan out. The price that it came in was too much for us to do the whole thing in this biennium. We're going to have to take it in two bites to keep it under budget. But we did run the bid process. And as you can see, the pricing is there in front of you in the resolution. And so the winner this time, and it's interesting because these are the companies that keep competing with each other in Newburgh. And it flipped around. Previously, one time before, trench line excavation had the keenest price. And this time, it was tourney excavation that had the best price. Now, this is the part that runs under the railway line, and Mike, I'm gonna let you explain a little bit about what it actually is and what it will do.

Okay, thank you for having me here today. Basically, the section that we're gonna be doing is the work that's in the railroad right-of-way. Part of the reason we pulled that out of the project as an alternate B was simply because the process of getting railroad permits is a six to eight month process. And since we now have them and the permit is only valid for 60 days, we felt that it was important at this point to at least get that work done so we don't have to start that process all over again next year. What this process is doing is we'll be digging more pits on either side of the railroad They'll be boring a casing underneath the railroad and then installing a water, the waterline section in that casing to outside of the railroad right of ways on, on main street with the eight inch pipe. So the whole purpose of the project is to replace the, the six inch and four inch water lines that are there with the, our current standard of eight inch water lines, as well as there's a maintenance issue going on with that section of pipe as well. So that's kind of in the nutshell of what we're doing and why we chose to make that as an alternate B versus just pushing the entire project till next year.

Thank you. You're welcome. And so the thing about when you have this legacy piece of pipe where it constricts, you're having the situation where the pressure gets far too high in the constricted section, and it can also cause damage downstream after the narrow section when it comes back out to the full-size pipe, a process which the mayor reminded me is called cavitation. I'd forgotten the term, so thank you, Mr. Mayor. And so that will solve all of those problems. And it'll set us up for the next biennium to tackle the rest of the Main Street water line that needs to be done. Had the price been a little bit keener, we might have been able to get it all done this biennium. But unfortunately, we have to stay within our budget.

So I think I missed part of what you said. The part that's going to go under the railroad track, that's not going to be replaced. When will it?

No, that is what we will be doing is replacing the section under the railroad track.

Under the railroad track, but also on either side of it?

So all we're doing is putting in this section of pipe that's under the railroad tracks. It won't be connected into the main water line now because of the additional costs and the fact that we're looking at finishing the project next biennium. So basically putting it back out to bid next year to complete it. So it will just be doing the work under the railroad tracks, getting the pipe installed there for future connection with the next phase of the project.

Let me say this. And so one advantage of what we did do, it's not lost work, because now we have an idea of what the price will be for the rest of the pipe, which means we can hit the same companies up with the previous quote, and we should get a good sharpening of the pencil for finishing the project.

So you say that this is, the reason we're doing this was HB 2001, is that, and you also mentioned that there's repairs that need to be done, but is it mainly being done for that house bill?

The primary reason for the work is to get rid of this constricted section that goes under the railway line. The HB 2001 projects are, extend in various parts of the city but we are tackling these in the order of highest priority so the first piece we did which was section 4b we did that so as to get ahead of a grind and inlay section because that saves money this part is the part that where there's a technical problem we really want to address this problem Our plan for other HB 2001 sections is to use the same way of thinking. If we're going to change cast iron to ductile iron, we're going to choose it at a moment when we need to do the grinding inlay anyway and to get ahead of the grinding inlay, for example.

So this project isn't actually part of HB 2001 waterline. The Meridian Street section that we did was, this one is not.

This is just for my clarification. I'm not good with picturing places. So this is just the width of North Main where the track crosses it, say 20, 25 feet?

So it will be in the northbound travel lane where the waterline is located, and it will extend to the north and to the south beyond the right-of-way of the railroad tracks. So when we go to connect onto it, now we're out of the right-of-way, so we don't have to get permits from the railroad anymore.

Parallel to the road? Correct.

I was picturing it crossing. It's in the northbound travel lane.

Perfect. Thank you. And it's a section of pipe of approximately 150 feet to get us out of their right-of-way on either side.

Thank you. Thank you. Would anybody like to make a motion?

I move that we adopt Resolution 2026-4040 and award the contract to Turney Excavating, Inc. Second that.

Rachel, help me. I'm seeing 2026-4016.

Yes, there's one typo at the very top I just noticed as well. So in other places, it is 4040. It is 4040. It is 4040.

Thank you. And thanks for your accuracy, Mike. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve Resolution 2026-4040. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion passes unanimously. So this brings us back to item number six on our agenda. Good to see you, Officer Cisneros.

Officer Spears, would you like to come to the dais to hear the proclamation? Yes, thank you.

So this is a proclamation honoring and recognizing military reservists. Whereas members of the United States military reserve components play an important and essential role in the nation's defense and emergency response, and whereas reservists balance the dual responsibilities of civilian careers and military service, standing ready at a moment's notice to serve our community, state, and the nation during times of conflict, national disaster, and national emergency. And whereas the sacrifices of our reserve service members and their families strengthen the fabric of our community and help safeguard our freedoms and security. And whereas it is our responsibility as a community to serve and support all of our military members and their families as well as they have served us. Now, therefore, I, Bill Rossacker, Mayor of the City of Newburgh, Oregon, along with the City Council, do hereby proclaim the first week of August to be the Reservist Appreciation Week. In witness whereof, I have been... Thank you very much. Officer Cisneros, I understand you have another item that you wanted to address while you're here.

All right, great.

Good evening. Thank you for your time. My name is Ariel C. Gaydos, and I work for the City of Newburgh as a detective here at the police department. I've been working here for a little over eight years. It's been a privilege to work here, but I've also had the privilege over the last 13 years to serve in our National Guard, first in the Army, now in the Air Guard with 142nd Logistics Squadron. And a couple months ago, we had a presentation from this office that I did not know even existed. It's called ESGR, Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve. And basically, they deal with assisting service members who are in a reserve or guard capacity who have issues with their main employer as a result of the military service. And the statistics were very startling to me. I didn't even know that this was an issue. And in doing so, I've actually, in the months after this, I've heard of similar scenarios with people that work in city government. So I've been very blessed. I've never had this issue. And I attribute that to our chief and my supervisors who support military service. And in eight years, I've never heard one complaint about me having to take off something last minute for that. So I'm very thankful. And I really appreciate it. Due to that, I nominated our chief and my immediate supervisor, Captain Simmons, for a Patriot Award, and they are official Patriots with the Department of War.

I'll set this one here, it's for Ryan.

You got to be behind the flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Go for it.

Sorry, but the honor is chief.

Thank you.

I got former rookie of the year.

This detective.

Before I close, thank you again for your time. And I'd just like to close by saying, paying tribute to the service members that we have lost in Operation Epic Fury. I think we're at 18, so it might be 19. But I just want to close with that. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being here.

Did I just hear that your title is now detective?

Yes, sir.

I apologize. I did not mean to use the wrong.

Same thing for you. It's just an assignment. But it's the best assignment in the department, so I'm very happy.

Well, thank you. Robin?

Thank you for all you did.

Thank you so much for your service. I'm wondering how many reservists do we have in the police department? Do we know?

Two currently. One is on leave, but yeah, we have two in the department. I'm not sure what the statistics are for the city, but I know. And one of our officers a couple of years ago completed it. Was it a year long deployment chief? So, so yeah, we do. Yeah, we've had service members here deploy from the department. So yeah.

And the city will always support Rosarias and make sure it works for them.

Yeah. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much.

All right. We're down to new business. Item number 9.1. Oh, I'm sorry. 9.2, Street Seats Pilot Program Extension.

Good evening, Mayor and members of the City Council. Scott Siegel, Community Development Director. And I'm here this evening because at your June 15th meeting, the Council held a study session on the Street Seats Pilot Program and directed staff to return with a resolution extending that program by two years. Just by way of background, the street seats are permission that the city grants to restaurants in order to use a portion of the right-of-way. It's within the eight-foot parking strip for outdoor seating. And we've had only one application for that since the program started. It was established in 2015 and it was successful while it ran. And then that restaurant closed. A new one moved in and the new restaurant owner, although I did meet with them and we talked about the opportunity for street seat, cafe seating, they were not interested in pursuing that at the time. So it's available. We look at it as a resource. So in conversations with prospective businesses and existing businesses, Restaurants, we talk with them about cafe seating on the sidewalk or street seating in the right-of-way. And it's really actually, although it hasn't had a whole lot of use, it's helpful to have that in our tool belt as another economic development resource. And as staff, we believe it's consistent. It's in alignment with the council's goal for encouraging downtown investment and revitalization. So I'm here this evening to recommend or to ask the council to consider approving resolution 2026-4035, which would extend this pilot program for street seats by two years. The same sort of metrics and uh controls that have been in place all this time or for the past two years would continue so that if we ever got to a point where we were like 85 or more above our parking capacity in the downtown we would of course bring this back to council for your reconsideration and that concludes the staff presentation are there any questions

You just mentioned the parking percentage. Can you explain that? Because I think that's kind of becoming an issue already.

Yeah. Thank you, Councillor Wheatley. So the city commissioned a downtown parking analysis, downtown parking study and management plan in 2023. And they conducted a parking analysis, a capacity analysis at that time. It was in the spring. So It was during a different sort of peak parking period than the summer. What they found was that overall in the downtown area, we were below 85%. We were actually well below the capacity. Now, there are spot locations in the downtown area, particularly around the cultural center and library, where, you know, we do see closer to capacity parking or at capacity parking from time to time. And during special events, the 2nd Street public lot is often closed. you know, nearly full or full. So this is really looking at the downtown as a as a whole and considering that people generally, you know, will walk a block or two in order to get to where they're going. So I hope that answers your question.

Yeah, it does. I couldn't remember the percentage, but I do think that has significantly changed because we have filled all the empty businesses in downtown. So I don't know when we need to have another one of those studies done, but anyway, I think we're pretty full. Nope.

We could certainly look at that as part of the long-range planning work program and bring that back to you for 2027 and then decide it would be a budgetary decision to do a study of that nature.

Do you recall what the cost was for that study? I was on the council. I just don't recall what it was.

I'm going to refer to the city manager because I wasn't here during the time. I seem to recall, and this may be wrong, I think it was about $18,000. Now, most assuredly, I could add this to the list of things to consider in our strategic planning for next year's cycle if we would like to consider that as a possible thing to do. I think so.

It's getting packed downtown.

Well, I can add it to the potential list easily.

Thank you, Will. And a study of that type would be, it would have value and it would be useful for other planning and development decisions that we make too. It wouldn't just be for the street seeds.

Well, then I like that idea even better because I don't want it to be a one and done. But if we can use that type of a study for other things, I think it's well worth, you know, setting it aside and put it in the strategic planning and take a look at it. But I agree, Councillor Ed, I think it is getting pretty full downtown.

What is the recommended cadence for having those studies done? Because I think we can all say it feels like a lot, but I'm curious if there is a recommendation about best practice for cadence of the study. And then also to just throw out like, does that fit with like traffic safety studies? Because I know that those are very expensive and I think that's something I worry a lot, maybe more about for the South side than parking. Yeah.

Well, I can start off and then the city manager may have more to add. So I often see parking studies aligned with the transportation plan that a city will conduct and it'd be a focus area of the transportation plan. And those are transportation system plans are typically on a schedule of eight to 10 years. Ours was last comprehensively updated in 2016, so we're approaching that. We're already within that zone. So it would be, I think, good timing to try to align those two together if we were considering updating our transportation plan. Otherwise, it's as frequently as the need arises, really. You could have a major redevelopment project downtown in some cities where that happens. Re-evaluating parking is critical. particularly if you have public parking facilities.

As my esteemed colleague said, it often is folded into TSP, transportation system plan update, and it is time, and I was planning to bring that on the next CIP list anyway, TSP update, just because it's been a long time. And certainly the costs would be probably slightly more than an individual single intersection safety plan. We might imagine that that might be something like $12,000 or $14,000 as opposed to closer to $20,000.

I would just... I was a dissenter on this in the first place. I don't see the need to continue this particular plan. I'm just bringing that up because if we were going to decide not to renew this, this would be the time to do it while nobody has got one out there. So, Mike, go ahead.

Well, I was trying to remember how I voted last time when we were talking about this, because I kind of feel the same way. I think we ought to do this study only if it's going to help us on other projects. But I think you're right. Unless somebody is, I mean, if a restaurant downtown comes to us and says, hey, I'd like to be able to do this. I've heard of some other cities that do that. Well, then we could take it up and we could look at it. But at that point, but I don't, I don't know if there's a real need to have this until we get to a point where we actually have some businesses downtown requesting it. I don't know.

Elise.

Hey, I agree with counselor McBride. I agree with a lot of what's been said already though. I, my preference would be that we just allow the, you know, straight seats pilot program to stand. And it just as counselor McBride stated, if someone comes back, if a business owner comes to us, I think that would be the time to assess the study. But I could be convinced on the study that, as I do understand Councilor Wheatley's point as well. But I would like to not rehash, my position would be to not rehash the actual Seat Street program.

If we approve the extension, does that mean the next restaurant that wants to have street seating automatically gets it?

It establishes the criteria and the design standards for street seats so they would have certainty on what's expected. And then it's a street, basically, I'm not sure how we've licensed those in the past. Of course, the previous one predated myself, but I would look at it as a right-of-way permit of sorts that the city grants. Is that how it's managed well?

Yeah.

So if I may add, thank you for the question, Councillor Kilburg. And just to follow up on what would be the opportunity cost or the trade-off of letting it lapse, and if we were approached by a business that wanted to utilize this, the only difference would be that we would, instead of saying, yes, we have this policy in place and these are the criteria and this is how you go about doing it, we would say we'll have to go to council and stand up or resurrect that program so that... You may use it. So there'd be a, you know, timing and uncertainty force.

Well,

Now, Honourable Mayor and Council, I also had reached out to Downtown Coalition asking about this exact question after we discussed it last time. And I just wanted to be clear, there are no businesses that are interested in doing this at this time, and nor have any other businesses approached the city seeking this programme. So, I mean...

Yeah, we wouldn't be pulling the rug out from anyone if you were to let it.

Does it cost us anything to leave it on the books for the next two years? Because I think the thing that I have in my mind is it doesn't cost us anything. It is a framework should a business become interested that they would know how to approach the process. I think I don't want to do anything that might inadvertently risk even a future downtown business given how hard it is to do business and sustain business in our local downtowns. And so I guess, does it cost us anything? And is there value in having the path there should someone choose in the future?

There's no operating cost for this until an applicant requests it, of course. And the only overhead really is every two years, you're going to see me again asking the same questions.

Just to clarify, if we put this on the books, then if somebody applies and they meet all the criteria, then we have to allow them to do it. It's not subjective at that point, right? Or objective.

Hmm. I'm looking at the city attorney because I don't think we've been asked that question yet. I don't think it's, I mean, it is city right-of-way, city property, so there could be a public interest in not permitting someone to use it, but I think we'd have to be consistent, not arbitrary, right?

Sure. Well, it's up to the mayor.

I mean, thank you all for that.

Sure. And then maybe the city manager can share the hypothetical. So I think that it establishes a framework. The challenge in your question, Mayor, is that the criteria have some subjectivity baked within them. They're inherently somewhat subjective. Some of them, not all of them. And so the short answer to your question is yes and no, if that's clear as mud.

That's a good question. Thank you for that valuable legal advice. Will, it's your turn.

So here's the hypothetical, right? So let's say there was a location and a business had considerable interest in doing it at that location. There is some subjectivity in the code language. We might imagine that, let's say, for example, TVF&R came to us and they said, this is a really bad idea. in this particular route because it's a primary dispatching route for fire appliances. Well, that would still have to be a consideration through the process.

All right. Would somebody like to make a motion? Oh, Elise, go ahead.

Maybe if I can get up. No, I was going to ask similar questions to Councilor Tergesen. I just, I don't want to have any practice or policy. And I understand that there's nothing that it means right now, but I just feel like any practice policy on our books that are as prohibitive to business, I don't want to take that position. So that's where I'm at.

Well, it is time to call a question. Would anybody like to make a motion? Go ahead, Peggy.

I move we approve Resolution 2026-4035. I'll second.

We have a motion and a second to approve Resolution 2026-4035. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Aye. Motion passes. Thank you. Well, folks, believe it or not, we're going to get out of here before 7 o'clock today. So thank you very much. This meeting is adjourned.

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