Planning Commission - Special Meeting

I'd like to call Tuesday, June 4th, 2026, special planning commission meeting to order. Please stand for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We'll call for the takings any changes to the agenda. Looking for a motion to adopt the agenda.

I'll make that motion to adopt the agenda.

Second. A motion has been made by Susie, seconded by Rob to adopt agenda. All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All opposed? Motion is carried. Any public comment? Any public comment? Seeing none, we'll move on to number four. Plain substantial damage and a 50% rule presentation.

Austin, go ahead. I will change over to your PowerPoint quick.

Okay.

Give me a second here.

There we go.

Good evening, everyone. If I have the pleasure of meeting you yet, my name is Austin Deeb. I am the director of community involvement here at the city. Tonight is meant to be sort of an open forum, open house to kind of come in, talk, ask questions about something we refer to as the 50% rule that we're required to enforce as a result of the recent flooding that we've had. Now, the 50% rule is something that's very intricate. There's a lot of rules and regulations that go into it, a lot of different interpretations. And the goal of tonight is to get people the correct information regarding this role and get people the information they need to move forward with getting their properties where they need to be. So to start out, all of these rules and regulations, there's different layers to where it comes from. The first one is the NFIP or National Floodplain Insurance Program. Now, that is a federal program that's set forth in D.C. by FEMA, and that was enacted way back in 1968. In 1968, that created the NFIP program I talked about, and that is essentially what gives people the ability to get flood insurance for properties that are, you know, essentially in floodplains or, you know, basically at risk of flood damage, as we've seen in the past. So that was from 1968 at the federal level. In Wisconsin, we have something called NR 116. That is the state floodplain program that comes into play, which has additional rules and regulations that are in place for Wisconsin only that we are required to enforce at the local level as well. In the City of New London, our floodplain ordinance is Chapter 16, which closely mirrors the state floodplain ordinance. So there's a lot of similarities between the two. But the overarching factor here is the NFIP program from federal and FEMA is where a lot of this is coming from. So we at the local level need to enforce these standards, put in place these rules. We're not put in place by the city, but it's something that we're required to do coming down from federal level. So why do we enforce these floodplain regulations? So to start off, you know, the biggest one to me is protecting that health and safety. You know, when we start out with new developments, new houses, new commercial business coming in, we want to make sure they're placed in areas that are not going to provide risk to our community members, our property owners. We don't want to set them up for failure and we want people to be safe. So whenever we have new properties come in, we're looking at them from floodplain regulations, wetlands, you know, hazardous conditions, things of that nature. So it would be the same thing for existing properties as well that we need to enforce. Second one being natural resources. You know, we've got a really unique area here with the Wolfen and Barris. We want to make sure we're protecting our natural resources, providing safe drinking water, safe fish habitat. All that comes down to smart growth and making sure that our developments in the city is with the natural resources that we have in mind. Next one being, we want to ensure that we're protecting property values. I talked about when we're placing new structures, if we're placing them in areas that are at risk to floods or different natural disasters, that's not something we want to be doing because we're setting up those properties to be exposed to those damages. And we know that as evidenced by the floods in April, that these things can happen and we need to be mindful of where we're putting our value in our community. So keeping floodplain regulations in mind when we're doing that is extremely important. Now towards more existing structures by applying floodplain regulations, we're hoping to minimize and mitigate future damages. So going through this program with the 50% rule and substantial damage, we're hoping that hopefully not for a long time, but the next time a natural disaster comes through, we'll be prepared and hopefully more structures will be better suited to reflect the natural disasters that come through and be protected against flooding and whatever may come through. So Another reason why we enforce these regulations is to protect from future events as well. And another big one is that if we enforce federal floodplain regulations, state floodplain regulations, it allows us to remain eligible for disaster assistance grants and loans. So a lot of people talk about we're hoping to get funds, money from sources to help people rebuild. In order to do that, one big thing is making sure that we're enforcing the rules that we need to. And the NFIP standards are very strict on that. So a big reason why we enforce them at the local level is to remain eligible for those funds if and when they do come. And next one is remaining eligible for flood insurance. So we as a community in New London are eligible for flood insurance because we enforce NFIP and state flood point regulations. So if we choose to not enforce these regulations, we lose that eligibility. So properties that are located within the floodplain would not have the ability to apply for NFIV flood insurance and would, in many cases, have issues getting money to repair their properties if these regulations are not enforced. And the last one, which I think is very important, is that these floodplain regulations are law. You know, is this federal law? This is state statute. These are things that are enacted by legislatures voted on and put in place for the health and safety of the people in the community. And it is the law and we are required to enforce them. So I want to go over to a couple of key definitions we're going to talk about tonight. You know, I'm happy to refer back to these as we go forward, but they are very technical. A lot of these come from state statutes and ordinances and federal standards, but the big one that we're going to talk about a lot is what a non-conforming structure is within the floodplain. So this 50% rule and substantial damage and all these regulations that we're talking about apply because structures are not built to floodplain standards. So what that means is that maybe they're built too low or maybe they aren't built with certain materials meant to withstand flooding. In cases like that, the structure may have been placed legally. They may have gotten all the applicable permits they needed to at the time. And then maybe the regulations changed after the fact. This would be similar to any sort of simple zoning ordinance where maybe a property was built five feet to the property line and then the zoning ordinance changed and now the setback is 10 feet. You know, that'd be a similar situation where that would be considered non-conforming structure in the same way that a house in a floodplain would be considered non-conforming structure because maybe it was built too low. So something else we're gonna talk about a lot is the flood protection elevation. So this comes into play for, say, you were to build a brand new house on a property that's located within the floodplain. Something we talked about is that flood protection elevation, which requires that that first habitable floor be located two feet above the regional flood elevation. So when we have... We'll kind of go towards the flood map in a couple of slides here, but flood maps have flood elevations on them to where they anticipate the water will reach in a 100-year flood event. So that flood protection elevation references that regional flood height, and we need to be two feet above that to be in compliance with national floodplain standards and state floodplain standards. Next one is substantial damage. So 50% roll substantial damage and substantial improvements all kind of go hand in hand. When we look at flood damage properties, we need to evaluate what the cost to repair that structure would be to get it back to pre-damage condition. So if you had a house that was evaluated at $100,000 and the costs were more than 50% of the value, so more than $50,000, we would consider that structure to be substantially damaged because the cost to repair is more than that 50%. So we'll get into what that means later on, but that's what substantial damage means. You know, if you hear the term thrown around where my property was substantially damaged, you know, the technical term would mean that it's more than 50% of that equalized assessed value to repair. Now that also comes into play regardless of disasters when it comes to substantial improvements. So say you have a home that's a non-conforming structure and a floodplain. and you decide you want to do a kitchen remodel or a basement finish or something that will constitute a substantial improvement to the property, those costs are also included towards a 50% rule if that property is not conforming. So I'll use that $100,000 example. We've got that $50,000 pool of money to use before we need to bring that entire structure into compliance. So if your kitchen remodel was $51,000, we have to look at bringing that entire structure up to compliance. And typically that is, you know, raising that first floor or moving it outside of the floodplain. I used the term a little bit already, but EAV or equalized assessed value is the number that we're using for that 50% rule. So that equalized assessed value is your assessed value with your applied market factor adjustment factors. So typically when you look on your tax bill, you may see a fair market value. that's what this number is referring to. However, on your tax bill, your fair market value a lot of times will take into account the land. For the purpose of floodplain regulations and the 50% rule, we only consider the equalized assessed value of the structure itself. So the land value does not come into play because anything exterior to the home is not subject to the 50% rule. So this next one is where we kind of get into the intricacies of what a floodplain is. So when we look at the next slide here, this is kind of a map of the north side of the town where we have most of our floodplain in the city. The blue areas are what we call flood fringe, right? These are the areas that typically are standing water. You're not gonna see your higher velocity flows in these areas. It's water that pools from the channels of the floodway. The sort of red crosshatch areas, that's where you have your higher velocity flows, your currents, areas that are subject to flowing water associated with the floodplain. Typically, those areas follow the channels. As you can see going through here, you would typically not see floodway islands unless there are other environmental features that require such. We do see some orange on here as well. That's the 0.2% annual chance flood. That's an area that's not regulated. So if you see the orange up here, those aren't the areas we're looking at for floodplain regulations because it's a 0.2% annual flood hazard, which does not require us to enforce. And the entirety of the flood maps we're looking at here, those are based on what's known as a 100-year flood. You may hear terms 500-year flood, 200-year flood. What we're talking about today is a 100-year flood. That's where these regulations come into play, and that's what we're enforcing. So we touched on a little bit, what is the 50% rule, right? It applies to those nonconforming structures within that regulatory floodplain that we looked at in the last slide. So structures that may be too low within the floodway, flood fringe, whatever it may be, that's where we're applying this rule. And one of the biggest things to remember with this 50% rule is that it is cumulative to the life of the structure. So it doesn't matter how much time has passed, how much time is in between projects or repairs, that 50% rule does come into play. Once we hit that 50%, we have to look at bringing that structure into compliance, whether it be raising up that first floor, moving it out of the floodplain, demolishing and erasing the structure. So I get the question a lot of what costs are included in calculating that 50%. So the easiest way that I can describe it is that structural repairs and labor. So anything that's built into the structure, including appliances such as water heaters and furnaces, things like that are included. So with the flood damage that we received in the city, it's been a lot of drywall repair and flooring replacements, things like that are all included because those are considered to be structural repairs to the building itself. So I do have a list on there. We have a list of the costs included on our website as well. And if anyone wants a copy of these, I'm happy to provide them. Please reach out to me. So there's a lot of things listed in there and things that are included in those cost assessments. Things that are not included, it comes down to the cleanup and debris removal, all of the removal of the wet material from the floods, tearing out, debris removal, cleanup, things like that are not included in those costs. So anyone that has your restoration companies out there tearing out wet drywall, wet flooring, carpet, things like that, those costs for them to come in and do that do not count towards a 50% roll. And in addition to that, I kind of mentioned the outdoor improvements, you know, say you want a new driveway or new landscaping, new lawn, those kinds of costs are not included in the 50% roll at any time. So. One important thing to mention as well is that the labor aspects of the costs that are included. So many people choose to do a lot of repair work themselves, which is great, but we do need to factor in what the labor costs would be for those repairs. So typically what we would do is apply the prevailing wage rate for the work that's been done. So if someone had flooring work done and they chose to do it themselves, we would apply the prevailing rate for a carpenter to come in and do that work to their costs. So this is a requirement from the state and FEMA to essentially ensure that the repairs are being done to bring that structure back to pre-damage condition. We want to make sure things are being done correctly and people aren't cutting corners in areas that could cause health and safety hazards as well when repairing their homes. So how are we regulating this? So in the days after the flood events back in April, myself and staff, we went out and did some windshield reviews. Essentially what that means is we went around, drove around the city where we could and saw what areas we felt were most affected by flood damage. We made notes and kind of determined what areas we should be focusing on first and reaching out to these properties make sure that they know what the regulations are and getting them the information they need to move forward. After that, and once we got our wheels on the ground, it was working with the DNR and making sure we were following the right standards for conducting substantial damage assessments. These inspections were more in-depth on-site interior inspections where we were actually visiting properties going inside and determining the extent of damage that was in place from the floods. During these inspections, my staff and our team of inspectors would determine whether there are health and safety issues in the property, and we would evaluate when the property could be inhabited or if it needed to be vacated based on the damage that it received. Many people were able to get mold treatments on their homes, which was fantastic. That saved a lot of properties from needing to be vacated just from a health and safety standpoint. But from those assessments, we were able to determine maybe they needed a new water heater, maybe they need a new furnace, new electrical work. And then we were able to make more detailed notes on what properties we need to be looking for that may be substantially damaged. So yeah. From those inspections, we were able to get property owners the information they need to move forward and what they needed to get us at the city for tracking purposes. The table showing up on the slide there is what we've been using for tracking the substantial damage, substantial improvement that we talked about with their costs. And what we have people do is we get detailed cost assessments for the repair work that needs to be done for their properties. So whether it's flooring, you know, If it's carpet or furnaces, water heaters, we need to know the cost of those so we can apply it back to the equalized assessed value and determine whether they are above or below that 50% value and determine whether we need to take next steps to bring that property into compliance or not. So that's some of the paperwork we've been using. That's just an example spreadsheet on there that shows kind of the framework of what we've been using to determine those. So what should property owners be doing? At this point in time, we know there's been work done in the community. We have anywhere from 200 to 300, 350 structures that were affected by floodwaters. We've not been able to reach everyone. We know that work's been done. Um, what we ask at this time is that you reach out to the city, reach out to me, reach out to the community development department, um, to talk about what needs to happen, um, going forward. And we need to get those costs assessments that we talked about to, um, repair the structures and see where we're at. Um, you know, second thing people should be doing is contacting their insurance providers. If you have flood insurance and you're looking to get some reimbursement from your flood insurance, they may need specific documentation. There's many people that need documentation from the city that say we were on site and did an inspection or maybe documentation that the property is able to be used and inhabited and that it's not unsafe. Documentation from insurance providers is big. So contacting those insurance providers and seeing what they need to get the money that you have been paying for through your premiums is very important. And then I touched on a little bit already, but putting together those itemized costs for repairs and improvements. It's very, very important that we have that data to ensure that we're following those floodplain regulations. I tell people that if you're working with a contractor, that is the easiest way to get us those itemized lists. You know, whether it's an invoice or a list of work that they've done for you, material costs, things of that nature, contractors should be able to provide that to you. And then that's a simple forward over to me in our department to determine what next steps you need to take. Many of, much of the work that's being done may not require a typical building permit per se, but we still need to track these numbers for the plug point regulations. So you may not get a permit in hand to do the work, but we need to verify that that work is going to be able to be done within the bounds of the plug point regulations and the 50% rule. So what if the repairs exceed that 50% equal access value? So I kind of talked about it a little bit already, but that structure must be brought into compliance. So we have different compliance measures based on what area of the floodplain you're located in, whether it's flood fringe or floodway, they have different standards. We talked about before flood fringe is kind of your standing water areas, your lower, your no velocity flows, you know, area that water just pools. The regulations in those areas are less strict. We talked about the two feet above the regional flood elevation. That's a flood fringe standard. So if you're located in the flood fringe and you are required to bring your property into compliance, there may be opportunities where you raise that first floor, get above that flood elevation, and that property is no longer considered to be not conforming. Once that is in place and the property is brought into compliance, the 50% rule would no longer apply. So if you wanted to do your kitchen remodel after the fact, you would not be limited based on cost. Other equals assess value. So bringing that property into compliance essentially removes that requirement for you. For properties located in the floodway, we have a different set of standards. As mentioned, these are the higher velocity flows, areas that are you know, more unsafe to be in in the events of a flood. These areas, if we were to be building new, in order to build new in a flood way, it is very difficult to do so. We have a strict set of standards for engineering, flood proofing, and requirements that make developing in the flood way, you know, somewhat difficult, very difficult, I would say. So things to keep in mind, knowing what type of floodplain you're located in is very important for decision making and what repairs you want to do and evaluating whether it's cost effective for you to repair the structure in place, tear down, rebuild. A lot of that comes down to what area of the floodplain you're located in. So that's very important. For people to determine what type of floodplain they're located in, easiest way would be to contact the city, contact my department. But it is all public data. You can look up FEMA maps or DNR maps and get the same information that I would be providing you as well. So for those structures that are required to be brought into compliance, we talked about, you know, there may be situations where it's just not cost effective or it's not, they're not able to based on the area they have available to them to rebuild. In those scenarios, the structure would need to be demolished and left. Once that structure is demolished, anything new there would need to comply with the applicable floodplain regulations, the two feet above the RFE, floodproofing standards, things of that nature. But that existing structure, if it's not cost-effective to repair in place, would need to be demolished. It would not be allowed to remain there over time. Another option that may apply to some people, there could be some properties that maybe floodplain is located on half the parcel and there may be room to relocate the structure outside of the floodplain. Relocating that structure, picking it up and moving it and bringing it outside of that could make the structure no longer non-conforming and then the 50% rule would no longer apply. So that is another option that they may have without needing to completely relocate demolish and rebuild. And then the last one we've talked about a little bit is elevating that first floor and making sure we're meeting flood proofing standards and flood protection elevations. So when I talk first habitable floor, that's typically where you step up into your house from your front door. That's your first habitable floor. Basements, depending on what type of basement you have, whether it's a crawl space or a full basement, may be subject to these standards as well. So if we have a habitable basement, there are scenarios where if that habitable basement is located below that flood protection elevation, that basement may need to be filled in to make sure that first floor is above. So it just depends on what type of construction you have, whether it's a slab on grade or a basement or a crawl space, you know, there's standards that will apply to that. For garage sheds, anything that's really considered not a habitable structure, there are different standards associated with that. The garages and sheds do not need to be two feet above the RFE. They can be at the RFE on film. So if you may have had a garage or a shed that was affected by floodwaters, that could be rebuilt and it may not necessarily need to be built up as high as your house would need to be. So garages and sheds are held to a little bit less of a standard because they're not habitable. So what is next? What are the next steps that the city is taking to enforce this? I talked about we've gone out in the community and we've visited some of these properties that have been damaged. We've been speaking to property owners, but we know we haven't reached everyone. We have many, many different buildings and structures that were affected by floodwaters and we're slowly but surely chipping away and reaching out to these property owners as we can. But we know we haven't gotten to everyone yet. So Um, reaching out to us is very, very important to ensure we're following the applicable flood point regulations. Um, and we're going to continue to do these substantial damage assessments, um, and get the word out as much as we can. One of those things we're hoping to do is send out letters to property owners in the flood point. Um, that's something that we're hoping to do in the next couple of weeks. Um, get that word out to people that may not be on social media, may not be tuning into this meeting, um, making sure that they have the information they need to make decisions going forward for their properties. And then the biggest one is going to be that documentation and record keeping. So FEMA and the DNR, they periodically check on communities to make sure that we're enforcing the regulations we need to. And from that, they will make determinations on whether communities are still eligible for flood insurance and flood disaster assistance and things of that nature. So we need to ensure as a city that we have documentation and record keeping of these improvements and substantial damage assessments, cost assessments, things of that nature. So that's something that we're remaining diligent on is making sure we have records of everything that's happened as a result of the floods that we've had. And going forward, we'll continue to do that because as I mentioned, this 50% rule is cumulative for any of these structures that are not in compliance, so. With that, I wanted to open it up to any questions that we have. This is the time to ask them. I will do my best to answer them.

Let's say a house has been there for years and years and years and it's actually close to the river and it had so much damage. If they tore that down and rebuilt what they have build away from the river, correct? I mean, so far back.

Yeah, so we're talking about a couple of different standards there, right? So we've got floodplain standards and shoreline standards. So water setbacks, those are shoreline standards. So say we have a 40 foot setback from the water and they were built before that regulation was in place. the same kind of nonconformity standards would come into play. So if they were required to move the structure, demolish the structure, that new structure would need to meet that new 40 foot setback if it was within city limits. If anyone from the public had questions, I think there was a microphone set up at the table there. Come up and ask any questions we may have.

I work on one of the homeowners over on Lima Street. Actually, we've chatted quite a bit. With the 50% application, does that cost go against 50% rule for raising the structure to be compliant?

No, so raising the structure, demolishing the structure, bringing it into compliance, none of that costs goes towards the 50% rule because you're actively trying to remove the 50% rule requirement.

Okay, in this case scenario, we're trying to get them back into the structure. And as of now, they can't even get a furnace in there because we're waiting for the insurance, obviously, the foundation. But we're looking at going up. Can we get an occupancy permit to go through that process being non-compliant for the time being for the winter and then elevate it, lift it in the spring?

There are a couple different factors in play there. We would need to determine whether the property was substantially damaged or not. If we determine that the cost to repair that structure is going to be over 50%, then that property cannot be used because it's in violation.

Yeah, we already went through the numbers and we're at 33 to 17, so we end up with 9,000 left.

Okay.

Beyond putting the furnace and water heater back into the structure, make it habitable. Sure. At least for the window.

Sure. So in that scenario, yeah, we would run the numbers and sure you're below that 50%. We'd like to do another property inspection to ensure the structure is habitable. There aren't any other safety issues that we need to have mitigated. And in that situation, if we determine that the structure is able to be inhabited, we could potentially look at getting an occupancy for that with the caveat that those repairs need to occur to bring that structure back to pre-damage condition. Typically, non-conformity rules, you have 12 months from the events that occurred. So that clock has already started to get those repairs done. So there could be a scenario where there's occupancy issued to that with the condition that those repairs need to occur by a certain date.

And basically they're going to be out of money to finish the interior of the basement. And they're not even looking at doing that thing. Just basically a basketball court downstairs is what it's going to end up being. Because of the elevation we have, it's about three feet. You and I discussed that. Sure. So that being said, the water heater and the furnace would have to go back up for future?

The water heater and furnace should be elevated and floodproof to protect against future events.

Or above it going on to the existing deck.

Yes, going forward, yes.

Okay. All right. That's what I got. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, Grace Abbots. How do you determine the value of the home? Are you going off of- assessed value or market value?

Yep. So we talked about the equalized assessed value number. So we get that data from our city assessor. So we apply that number based on the evaluation that has been put forth by him. So that number may be difficult to determine by looking at your tax bill, because again, it's based on just the structure itself and not the entirety of the property, because that land value is not included in that. So people that are curious of what their equal assessed value is, you can reach out to us at the city and we'd be happy to provide that number.

Pretty sure our tax bills separate them. Pretty sure our tax bills have that separated right on it. The land value they do. I think they do.

Determining the value of our During the reconstruction costs, I've got an insurance company giving me an estimate. And I've got a contractor coming in with 30 or 40% below that estimate. Which one are you guys using? Because you're in the municipality, and which one are you going to use?

Yep. So when we have contractor assessments, typically what I would have people do is they come in and they give me the itemized costs of what they're doing and that's labors and material for the repair work. I would then have them sign an affidavit attesting to the costs saying they're not fudging numbers and then that number is accurate. I file that away in the file for the property and we use that number that the contractor puts forth because that number is accurate and that's what they're charging you for the work. Now, if there's a scenario where we find that the number just doesn't make sense, there's no way a contractor could be charging that low. There could be a scenario where we may question that value. But for the most part, when contractors give you an invoice, that would be the number we go off of. And we verify that through a signed affidavit from the contractor.

Okay, so a contractor would be gospel as long as...

Assuming that number is accurate and we don't find issues of that number maybe being too low or unrealistic. Yes.

Okay. All right. Why, if you have donated time, do people have to, or if you're doing the work yourself, you're charging me or someone else that's doing the work on their own house, you're charging them an hourly rate? That's not fair.

That's a great question. Those are the rules and regulations that are put in place by FEMA and the state. So they do that. From my understanding, to ensure a work that's being done is bringing it back to pre-damaged condition. And some of that comes into play, too. When we have property owners doing their own work, we want to make sure that there's not health and safety issues associated with that work. When we have professional contractors that are insured and licensed, we have more faith that that work is going to be done and not cause safety issues later on. So when we have homeowners doing their own work, we do need to apply a labor rate to keep it fair and equal to as if they were to go and hire a contractor at the same time.

I have a question about that. So let's say there's a group of contractors, everyone owns a different business, and they're choosing to actually donate their time and their labor. So we looked at one property. We're probably going to end up by raising the house up six feet. The actual cost of it is going to be about $14,000. So do all of us have to put in a time or like an estimate on labor time for that?

Yes. Yes. That would be a requirement. Yep. It'd be, you know, We understand we have a great community that wants to donate time and help people out. But unfortunately, the 50% rule and substantial damage doesn't account for that. We need to take labor and time into consideration in these costs.

Do you know what the average height difference is, how low the average house is down the street here in town? Do you know about approximately on average how much higher each home would have to be brought up?

Yeah.

I know it's going to vary greatly, but I'm asking.

Without having the numbers in front of me, I wouldn't want to give you an exact number of what it may be. But I can tell you that a majority of the regional flood heights on that side of town are about 760 and 761 in those areas. And based on our assessments and the flood maps, they're showing all the blue areas. you know, majority of those homes will be either at or below that regional flood height as evidenced by the damage that they received. So if we're looking for exact numbers on what houses may be, we would typically look at them from a case-by-case basis. We'd set up an appointment with contractors to see how much that house would be raised up.

So I have a question regarding his first question. He had said that they were going to donate time and raise the house up about six feet. Now, if that brings that into conformance, then there's no 50% rule, so then you wouldn't have to worry about all those, the donated money, the donated time, the donated labor. Then it goes away.

Yep, if we have people donating time, money, labor to bring a property into compliance, and we can verify that it's in compliance and no longer located within the floodplain, then yes, that would be accurate.

Okay, okay.

Yep.

This brings me to one other question on that. So let's say house A, house B, they're right next to one another. House A, they're going to bring their house into compliance. We're going to raise it six feet. We're going to do all the landscaping around the home. Now that causes a water drainage issue and a runoff issue for this house that is not going to raise their home up. Now all of their water shedding, if they don't gutter it to the city sewer, if they just go with metal roofing or anything is now going to cause a water issue for their neighbors.

Right. So the property that's not being burned in compliance, that's non-conforming structure, right? So they're able to exist in their footprint. They're able to continue providing they're not substantially damaged, right? So if we determine the cost to repair the lower house was lower than that 50% value, then that house just is allowed to remain there. And that the house next to them is choosing to bring their house into compliance, or maybe they're required to bring themselves into compliance and they bring themselves up and cause water issues for their neighbor. We would, you know, they're a non-conforming structure. What they have is what's there. So now there are things that we could look at to help mitigate that issue, whether it's a series of drainage swales, things that we could help. But at the end of the day, we know that issue is going to arise with properties that choose to raise it up in properties that choose not to.

So if they choose to be non-conforming and they get all this water runoff, it's not on us contractors.

We don't have to worry about the work that we did on property A. I would want to make sure when we get any plans go through that we're making an effort to try to mitigate any drainage as much as we can to the biggest extent practical. But we understand that you're trying to bring that property into compliance and the property next to you, it's a non-conforming structure. So we have to consider that as well. So again, that's going to be a case-by-case scenario for properties that come through. But I would say if we can make an effort to make drainage work to the best extent practical, that's probably what I would say.

Thank you.

So I'm seeing a brand new news article from over in Waupaca that they had a similar meeting like this and that it's possible that you guys could look at the What your ordinances does that seem.

Yeah, you know we've had some some initial discussions about what our ordinances, you know there are opportunities to adopt something called act one 75 within the city's club in orange. And essentially what that does is it changes the requirements for bringing a property into compliance. So that is something we're working through. We'll have discussions with the council and our city attorney to determine whether that's the best means to move forward with the city.

Thanks.

So how many houses in this ward do you think are like 50% or below 50%? the level they're supposed to be, or is it higher?

I don't want to give exact numbers, but I would say there's homes in that area that were significantly inundated by floodwaters. So from that determination, you could say that many of those houses are probably lower than they need to be based on the flood damage they received. And looking at the map here, that blue, that's floodplain, right? So looking at the houses in that area that we've been talking about, all are located within that. So from that, just by looking at the map, you can determine those houses are located in the floodplain and many of them are likely lower than they need to be. Yes.

Any other questions?

50% say they repaired their homes under the 50% value. And this is on a 100-year floodplain or flood. What happens next year? We have another flood and you have damage again. Can we go back to the 50% the next year?

Well, it's a cumulative rule, right? So I'll use that $100,000 example, right? Say you spent 25,000 repairs for this flood. Now you've only got 25,000 left. For the life of your whole?

Correct.

It's a cumulative rule. Yep.

And that's set by the state?

That's set by federal and state standards, yes.

Somebody should talk to the feds.

Of what?

Well, throughout history, my house is 100 years old. I'm John Tyson. My house is 100 years old. I have only lived there five years. I don't know the history of my house, but who keeps records of the past floods? How do you guys get records of that? I know records weren't good 50 years ago.

Nope.

So how do I determine how much property damage that my house has had since the history of that house? That's what you're saying, right?

It's cumulative. It's cumulative, correct. Yes.

So where do we find that information out?

Yeah, I mean, flood history, a lot of that's kept in records from the DNR. What we can do at the city level. The DNR. They keep track of flood data, yes.

So they keep track of how much money it cost us?

No, I was getting to that. So at the city level, we'll keep track of all permits that were maybe issued for the property. Maybe you had a water done 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

It should be easy from what you're saying. I should be able to just go to City Hall and get it.

Assuming we have the records on file, we should build a different one.

And if you don't, okay, so the records you have on file, that's the Bible right there, right? For work that's done to the property, yes. Okay. So that's something that I could just go to City Hall and say, I live at my address. I want to see how much insurance, is that what it's called? Insurance or property damage? What do I ask for?

How much repair work's been done to your home, you're saying?

What is it? Yeah, I need to know the words that I need to ask when I get in.

Yeah, when we're looking at your property, we will look back on the data that we would refer to would be permit data. So whether we had work done for, you know, maybe you had a new roof put on or a new water heater, new furnace, we would look back at our data and see what we have on file for that. And then we would apply those costs to determine where you're at for the 50% rule.

So I'm sure there's a lot of people not in this room that would like, that would be an awakening at some point where they need to look back in their history.

Yep. For sure, and that's why we encourage people to reach out. People that have come in and gotten us data, we've been referencing back and looking back in time at the data we have on file for their property and seeing what they have left based on what's been done.

I find it informational right here in this building.

Have you stopped by the community development department, the building inspector office?

I don't know where that is.

It's on the back side in between the police department and up here.

All right. Who determines... who's the uh where's the ways measures checks and who checks that your your information is correct so when you when you hit the 50 so who exactly is in charge of that of ensuring that we're enforcing the rules and regulations not that

Where you hit the 50, where you add it all up. Yep. That would be the community development department. We're the ones keeping track of that. Yes. Community development. That's my department. That's your department. Okay.

So, so say you got a bunch of houses in a row. So is there an oversight committee? So there could be like a, there could be a buddy system where you had one house in the middle that was a friend. and all of a sudden he gets skipped over, who's in charge of overseeing that? Anybody?

In terms of skipping over for what?

Well, what if one house was unfairly treated versus the next house who might've been on a committee or a buddy? You know what I'm saying? Is there an oversight to that? Everyone's treated the same under the flood point ordinance. So, okay, then it would just become like a, like you'd have to hire an attorney and prove it?

I guess I'm unsure what you're asking. Some type of corruption. Well, I can assure you that everyone's going to be held to the same standard under the floodplain ordinance. All right. I'm just asking.

Austin, wouldn't there be some type of an appeal process for that if you wanted to?

Yeah, there would be an appeal process. Typically that would go to circuit court, I would say, if there's an appeal process determination made by a city that a property owner doesn't agree with, that would go to an appeals court.

Yes. I got to go with you. You had done your house and have nothing to do with the flood at all. That would all be included in for the life of that house. Correct.

We definitely need to talk to the federal government about that one because I don't think a guy putting a roof on 25 years ago should affect that. I know you're doing this following me.

These are state legislation and federal standards. So if anything wants to be changed, that's where the change happens. It's through legislation and federal law.

That's pretty... Let's get back to that 175 thing. Where are we at with that?

We've had some internal discussions about determining whether that's... would be a good move for us. We need to evaluate what that means for eligibility for flood insurance because that could change things if we're lessening the requirements or reducing the requirements. So we're still in the evaluation phase for that, I would say.

But that would also change the ruling for some of these houses if we change our end of it.

We're evaluating what that would be. I'm unsure of that at this time.

Attorney Stegballer is working on that. He represents numerous communities. He's trying to work through that because this is something that's come to light just because of the event. But yes, we're definitely looking at it to see if that would help us.

I just want to make sure that some of these people know that this is something that's being looked into. Correct. Now, it may or may not help.

May or may not, correct. But we are looking to see whatever things we can do to help improve on and make it easier for us. per state and federal guidelines that are coming down.

I think you need to explain what the 175.

So what we're referring to is known as something called Act 175. That was a recent amendment to NR 116 of the state floodplain code that changes the requirements for bringing a structure into compliance. So there are things in there that may reduce or lessen the restrictions for flood protection elevations. But what needs to happen for that to occur is we would need to amend our floodplain ordinance and then our floodplain ordinance would need to be approved by the DNR. And there's a lot of factors in play with adopting Act 175 and how it affects people's eligibility for flood insurance. You know, if there's scenarios where premiums could be raised because now we have a lesser standard, we want to evaluate that before we were to change anything with our ordinance.

But it's actively being looked into by flood? Yep, 100%.

I mean, some of us knew that, but I don't think a lot of people know that. That's why I just want to bring that up. Correct.

But until anything is adopted and changed, these are the regulations that we are required. Absolutely.

If your house got hailed on and you got your roof repaired, does that go towards the 50%?

So there's a little bit different standards for non- non-flood disaster mitigation, right? So I don't have the exact language in front of me, but it is treated a little bit different than it would be as if you're, say you replaced it as a result of a flood or say you had flood damage. So hail is obviously not a flood. So there's a little bit different of a standard applied to that. So if we're looking for exact language and what that is, I'd be happy to provide that. Yeah.

So it's not, the cumulative is not, if you did a, an improvement on your house. It's only if it's an improvement on your house because of a flood.

Nope, it is regardless. But the difference there being the type of disaster that occurred, right? So there's different language, different standards for, she mentioned like a hail events, right? So, you know, again, I don't have the language in front of me to what that would be, but I know that there's different procedures to follow in cases like that. But regardless of the disaster, I use that kitchen remodel example. that cost would still apply regardless, yes.

Right. For 50% rule, you keep saying cumulative. This is where I'm confused. And you're saying you're going to look back at building permits. So it's any building permit, however long we have records, is part of that 50% or only if it was because of a flood?

Depending on what work was done, I would say a majority of the time that cost is going to be included in that 50%, yes. We would look at it from a case by case scenario, depending on what data we have for those permits.

But yes, I would say it would be included. 50% residential and commercial? Yes, it does. It applies to both? Yes. There's always remodeling going on with commercial.

So going back to For example, well, often, for example, roofing. Roofing is a maintenance site. You can buy a 50-year shingle that's going to last you 20 years if you're lucky. So you replace the roof three times in your lifespan and you're on to the 50% on your $100,000 house.

Well, yeah, I mean, we have to look at the standards that are put in place, you know, what costs are included in that, right? So is a roof a substantial improvement, a structural improvement to the property? I would say yes, yeah.

That's just the maintenance cost.

Well, maintenance versus improvements, you know, we have to look at what's actually being done.

So you'd have to make a determination then. So it's a call on somebody's part. It's not in concrete.

We would make a determination of what that repair work is and what constitutes it.

It didn't get damaged in a flood, but eventually eroded because it's a single roof, right? Yep. So at that point, maintenance... would either may or may not be part of your 50% rule.

We would make a determination at the time, yes.

So that would be a local determination. That would be FEMA determination or state determination. Is that what you're saying?

We would make the determination at the local level because we're enforcing FEMA and state standards. Now, if at any point in time we got audited at the local level by FEMA or the state and said we didn't do that correctly or they interpreted that differently than we do, that scenario could arise where maybe it should have been included and we didn't include it or something like that. But if something like that were to come in, we would make a determination of whether that's work constitutes a substantial improvement or not, yes.

Okay, so maintenance can be called a substantial improvement even though it's only maintenance?

Yes, depending on the work done, yes, it could be included.

Okay, strictly arbitrary.

Okay. So I'm pretty sure I understand this, but I guess I really don't want to say it or ask it. So let's say that a house has to be brought into compliance. It was livable, but it was a non-conforming structure. Now the cost to make it a conforming structure or the process that has to be done, whether it be a demo, relocate it, raise it up, whatever it is, some of those properties down there are pretty small. What if the lot is not big enough to fit suitable setbacks or the same square footage, anything like that? I hate to ask this question, but are those people, if they didn't get the funds from insurance company, FEMA or anything, and they don't have the funds out of pocket to pay for this, are they up a creek and basically have to sell as is for a cash offer or just sit on it? Where are they at? Because there's bound to be one or two of those. I would hate for those people to be in the hopeless basket with no direction.

Those scenarios we would evaluate again on a case by case. We look at their billable area. There are always options for someone to apply for variance to setbacks. We don't like to use the term variance in the zoning planning world, but it's always the property owner's right to pursue something like that. And if they can justify that they've been given a a hardship associated with their property. There's avenues to where that could be possible to be rebuilt on, but again, very much case by case.

Thank you. Once again, the question I have is, what I'm hearing is a 50% goal, and it applies to any building permit that was issued for that property, for the life of the property, as you're calling community living. Does that apply to a non-conforming structure? or conforming structure.

This is all about nonconforming structures, right?

Gotcha.

So if we had a structure that was conforming in the floodplain, none of this applies. 50% of it was not conforming.

Therefore, the roof can still be redone. And it's just anything below that flood level.

Anything that's nonconforming in the floodplain, yes.

I think I answered a lot of questions on that one. Thank you.

No. People that have basements down here, If their first level, their living space is above the flood zone, are they out of this 50% rule?

We would evaluate what type of basement they have, right? Depending on the depth of their foundation, what utilities are located in the basements, how deep it goes, whether the space is actually used as habitable space. There's a lot of factors that come into play there. to determine where that first habitable floor is.

What if the only thing they have down there is a furnace and water heater?

A furnace and water heater would need to be elevated, yes. Typically, that would be raising up that foundation a little bit, filling it in. That comes into play as well.

If they move their furnace and water heater up to the first level, what would they have to do to the basement? Just leave it?

Yep. If it was a scenario where their first floor needed to be at flood protection elevation, that basement cannot be used.

Oh, their first floor is above the rest.

So then that basement would not be able to be used as habitable space. Yeah.

Okay.

Fill it with sand or? Yep.

Okay.

Well, I appreciate everyone's questions. I hope I answered some of them. Again, I know this is the floodplain regulations are tricky and intricate and it's causing a lot of, you know, confusion and frustration. But just know that we're doing our best here at the city to navigate that, answer questions and help people as much as we can through this process. But the important thing to remember is that These are federal standards. These are state standards. We need to enforce them to make sure we as a community are remaining eligible for flood and disaster assistance and flood insurance.

And I think that one thing that was really kind of alluded to tonight that there's a lot of case by case scenarios, a lot of stuff that may be, you know, for this place, but doesn't really apply for this place. One of the biggest takeaways I want to say is make sure you contact us in the department. They can look at, you know, seeing what records you have for permits and things like that, where your flood elevation is. have those one-on-one conversations. We're lucky. We're great and lucky that we hired Austin before we had this event. So he's done an awesome job navigating these things. Again, not our wishes to do some of these things, but we're required to do it. And I think Austin, as you can see, very knowledgeable in bringing them on and have those conversations with them. That's all I got. We're here to help, so.

Okay, anybody else have any questions for us? Review upcoming agenda items.

You want to indicate a couple of the things coming up?

Yeah.

We'll have a couple of things coming forward here. We don't know exact dates because we're still waiting on material from the applicants. But I can tell you that we'll have a couple of CSMs going forward with some simple lot line adjustments. And then we may have a rezone coming up as well for the townhome development that we've previously discussed on the north side of town. And then in addition to that, we're still receiving inquiries for projects. So We could have more coming forward depending on applicants' timelines.

Okay, next item is the new option for next meeting date.

Yeah, so based on the meeting schedule this month, we are having a special council meeting on the 25th. which would have been a normal meeting date for plan commission. So we're looking to move the dates that would have been for our normal meeting date in June. So we have a couple options to look at. We could bump it to the following week. However, that is a holiday week with it being 4th of July. The next option would be bumping it to July 9th, having that meeting on the 9th and our normal July meeting as well, two weeks later on the 23rd. So that's Those are the options that we kind of look at, or we could look at doing a different day, depending on the availability of the plan commission.

Or Austin, do you think that you would just have enough to have your July meeting, have the meeting on July 9th and split kind of the June and July meetings together in that one meeting, depending on what we have.

Potentially, we don't know exactly what agenda items we'll have yet. That'll be determined in the next couple of weeks. Let's see what people are ready to go to have their items heard. and then we can make the determination of whether we need a second meeting in July or not. So I guess I'm open to suggestions on what you guys think.

What was the June option? June 18th we had talked about too.

That is the chamber golf outing.

Oh, that's right.

The original date was June 25th. We have a special council.

Why don't we go with the 9th and then if We don't have a whole lot for a regular meeting in January, or I mean July. Have them both on the 9th.

Sure, and then we would get back to normal.

You don't want to have it the week of the 4th. Sure.

And we can determine whether we need a second meeting in July. We'll know by the time we have our meeting on the 9th if we do have that.

Sounds good. Okay, next.

We need a motion for that.

No, no.

The next item on Jill's agenda is I need a motion for adjournment.

I'll make that motion to adjourn.

I'll second. Motion's been made by Susie, seconded by Mark. To adjourn the meeting.