Commissioners Meeting - Regular Meeting

A couple of housekeeping items. Uh we are live streaming the meeting and it's also being recorded. We always begin our meeting with the pledge of allegiance. Then we would ask you to remain standing for a brief moment of silence. Uh, Commissioner Kennedy could lead to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

You please remain standing. We'll have a brief moment of silence. Thank you all. Vanessa, could you call the RO? Commissioner here. Commissioner Kennedy here. Commissioner

here. We do have a quorum. Uh, as we do at every public meeting, we set aside time for uh public comment. We do this uh at the beginning of the meeting and then also before we adjourn. Uh you're welcome to speak both times. uh want to just speak once, that's fine. Or if you're just here to listen, that's that's also fine. We do ask that if you do have comments that they be related to county government matters. And uh uh so for example, if you have a state related matter, we would refer you to your state legislators. And the same would be true if it's a local city, borrow or township matter. But if it's a county related matter, we certainly welcome uh your comments. And then also if you do choose to speak, we we'd ask you try to limit your time to about five minutes or so. Uh we'd appreciate appreciate that courtesy. Uh hopefully everybody got a we'd appreciate appreciate that courtesy. Uh hopefully everybody got a copy of the agenda. And uh next on the agenda would be uh we do set aside time for any of our row officers who wish to attend but none are here today. Uh so that takes us to public comment. If you do have a comment, we'll call on you and uh you state your name for the record and then we'll hear what you have to say. Wish to comment. Your name for the record and then we'll hear what you have to say. Anybody wish to comment? Yes, ma'am.

Hello. Um good morning everybody. Um, my name is Lisa Stern. Yes, ma'am.

Hello. Um, good morning everybody. Um, my name is Lisa Stern and I'm president of Lawrence County Action which is a and I'm president of Lawrence County Action which is a subgroup of the Lawrence County Democratic Party. Uh this is my colleague Jane Clearary and she is um the executive board member the executive board member legal liaison and historian for the citizens environmental association of slippy rock area and we are here to um discuss with you a project that we are working on and that project is to place warning signs at three launches boat launches in Lawrence County. Uh we're interested in your comments, your advice, your feedback, and if you need any additional information, we would be happy to provide it for you via email. Um and you might ask why and what type of warning signs. Um the fact of the matter is that Lawrence County waterways have an unsafe amount of radium 226 as a result of fracking waste. Um some of the background is The Marshall's shield area has the highest level of naturally occurring radium in the US. Um, radium 226 like radon gas that people monitor in their homes and buildings should not be inhaled or ingested. Radium 226 is classified as a carcinogen. Radium 226 emits alpha particles which can damage human tissue and cause cancer. The halflife of radium 226 is 1600 years. Radium 226 is a byproduct of fracking. Um along with other toxic chemicals um

it contains um technically enhanced naturally occurring radioactive materials and this waste is transported to our landfills and processing plants then discharge into waterways. Um, there are no federal or state laws limiting or accounting for radioactive waste transportation. No measuring or monitoring. It is currently categorized as non-hazardous waste. Okay. You still have three minutes.

Okay. Nuclear regulatory commission has established safe upper limits of radio 226 and that would be 60 pico.

Thank you Mary.

Thank you Mary. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning to everybody and welcome uh call to order this regular meeting of the uh Lawrence County Board of Commissioners. Bear with me while I put my cell phone on vibrate. And I would respectfully request everyone doing that if you could please if you could put your cell phone on silent or vibrate. We'd appreciate that courtesy. Uh a couple of housekeeping items. Uh we are live streaming the meeting and it's also being recorded. We always begin our meeting with the pledge of allegiance. Then we would ask you to remain standing for a brief moment of silence. Uh, Commissioner Kennedy, could you lead us in the pledgece to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

You please remain standing. We'll have a brief moment of silence. Thank you all. Vanessa, could you call the role, please? Sir, here. Commissioner Kennedy here. Commissioner here. We do have a quorum. Uh as we do at every public meeting, we set aside time for uh public comment. We do this uh beginning of the meeting and then also similar welcome to both times. Want to speak once that's fine or listen that's also fine. We do ask you comments.

I'm curious to know did any curious to know did any of you know this is happening? No.

Okay. So um the way it's happened is that decades ago the United States wanted to be more energy u independent and so we opened up the country to shale oil and gas drilling and in terms of wanting to be very open and bring up as much as possible the Hallebertton amendment was passed at a federal level and so it's the EP EPA said, "Of course, radio radioactivity, that's illegal. You can't dump that into the creek if you're making bombs or something. But if it has to do with the fracking industry, we're going to just default to say it's non-hazardous." Now, if anybody wants to measure it at the well pad and then, you know, we know have a number, then we'll acknowledge that it's radioactive. But nobody's doing that. They're not requiring the companies to do that. The average level rating 226 of the website site is about 2,000 fico carries per liter. So they're not measuring it. They put it in the tankers. The workers are the most vulnerable. They don't necessarily know they're hauling this radioactive waste. Gets to the landfills. They dumped it into at least 50 landfills across the state. So this is not a new problem to um Lawrence County. I live in Mercer County and we've been in litigation for five years because uh the plan was to reopen the tri county landfill and start bringing in radioactive. We appealed that decision and fortunately we won last August after four years in the Commonwealth Court. They overturned the permit but the uh landfill operators there have appealed it up to the Supreme Court. So, we're

still in litigation over there. We didn't want to go over to cut off if I go too far. So, we're coming to you today because um there was a study done by the Department of Environmental Protection in 2016 and they looked at these 50 landfills across the state that have received the radioactive waste. The landfills have the rain that comes down and percolates through the landfill creating leech aid. And so the leech is captured and sent to treatment plants. And you have three treatment plants in Lawrence County that have received this fracking waste. And they they really can't treat it when they treat it. Uh the example of Coanta, I don't know if you know that site, it's in the part of the county. It I believe is called B world right now. It's

on Samson Street.

Okay. So they when the when the leech came in the the treatment plant, it came out hotter than when it came in. Okay. And that's because radium is persistent. It doesn't dissipate when it hits the creek. It stays there for as said 1,600 years. So, um, the level established by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is 60 and it's much hotter than that in all of these waterways. Um, I spoke with the people that the f the one furthest down is in Elwood City and unfortunately Mr. Price, who I believe is a township supervisor, wrote back to me yesterday and he said it's very disturbing because the intake pipe for the American Water Company, I knew it was down there somewhere or it's it's right close to this boat dock in city. So, um, we wanted to let you know about this. We wanted to seek your advice. We're still, I guess, in the process of finding out whose permission we need before we even out such a sign. I don't know if you folks have any authority or if it's all within the local municipalities.

Well, you you I believe you said at the outset that you had identified three boat launch areas. Did I hear you correctly? Yes. Are you able to share with us which those three are? Uh yes, which I they are um the um human services center administration and I'll stop you there. Forgive me. Okay. Uh that is not a countyowned boat launch. You would need to talk to the human services center. Okay. That's the one near the old train station if I'm not mistaken. Yes, ma'am. That is a that is owned by the uh human services center.

Okay. Um the second one is the Beington boat launch on Walam Road. Yes, that is in on River Road in Wayne Township. Yes, that is owned and maintained by the county of Lawrence. Okay. What would the third one be? And the third one is Rock Point Boat Launch. And yes, and that is in or excuse me, that's also in Wayne Township. That is not county owned.

Oh. uh that is owned by I believe it's western western Pennsylvania waterways. Brian, I'm looking at you. You might recall it's not the consery. Well, needless to say, of the three, the the second one that you mentioned is is the only county boat launch, the Beington, which is in Wayne Township. What I would recommend, I'm going to give my colleagues an opportunity to speak as well. Uh, I would recommend, and I believe she's out of town until later in the week, I would recommend you're talking to our planning director, Amy McKini, as it relates to the Beington launch, and then she could tell you the exact owner of the Rock Point facility, which is also again mentioned in Wayne Township, that that is located at the confluence ence of the Konaessing Creek and the Beaver River.

Yes. And uh but that is not county owned. So only one of the three. But but uh Amy McKenny's office is right. If you go out this door and make a left, the planning office is is at that location. I think she's back Thursday or Friday.

I was thinking tomorrow, but it could be Thursday. She's back this week. I would suggest that you talk to Amy uh and and fill her in as you've done with us uh relative specifically to the Bington law. Uh she may need to consult with our county solicitor. Uh but as far as the other two, those are are privately owned, I would say, not not owned or maintained by the county. Okay. I did um email I think it was the Lawrence County Conservation. Yeah, conservation district. They forwarded the email I think to pretty sure it was Amy. Yes.

And she said that she would need approval from the commissioners before she would be able to, you know, she doesn't have that authority. That's the way she's. That's that's correct. Again, as it relates to the Bington vote, right? Okay. But let me do you have more to add, ladies? I guess uh question I have. Is this something that you could decide on today or do you need more information?

We would need for for you to talk with Amy first. Uh I suspect uh again she and and the three of us would need to have a conversation with our county solicitor as it relates to what we can and cannot post on uh property. again, specifically the Peington launch down in Wayne Township. Um, but I'm going to defer for a moment or two here and see what my colleagues might have to say. I'll start with Mr. Kennedy. I agree with you. Amy's We need to go to first.

That's they take care of them all. So, be better off. I'm g say Mar one of the girls over there if you want to check with she'll be able to tell you when she's coming and they would know again the exact owner of the Rock Point launch in Wayne Township before I turn it to to Mr. uh Sonata, I do recall that at one point in time, and I don't know that the signs are even still there at the county owned boat launches, but uh the DP had put out an advisory as it relates to uh fish that were being caught.

Yes. And I do recall that we did put signs up at the request of D. This goes back, it may have been before YouTube, General.

Uh anyhow, Mr. S I I'll concur with both of you. I think with Amy and she'll come to us her thoughts as well especially like a process that's bring something to our attention it's not brought to our attention we appreciate that like I said she should be back just or call stop. Probably better just to stop.

Yeah. Tell her they Rebecca Schaefer. Uh it's Rebecca. Rebecca works in in that department. Yeah. Uh if she's in there today, number one, she could tell you when Amy's coming back. Number two, she might know or Alan Miller might know the exact owner of the Rock Point uh boat launch in Wayne Township. Alan Miller. Alan Miller. He also works in the planning on I think we did what we found out with the Rock Point was um when we contacted the Wayne Township supervisor or city supervisor. Oh, through the Wayne Township. Okay.

Yeah. They said that it is privately owned and they lease it. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's it's owned by and I'm almost certain it's called Wild Waters Conservancy. Yeah, he put in his email WWC and I didn't know what I believe that would be Wild Waters Conservancy is I believe the owner planning could confirm that the Rock Point Boat Club leases from Wild Waters to the best of my knowledge, but I think the folks in the planning office would be able to confirm that for you. Chris, I didn't have anything else.

Thanks. That's really helpful. Alan Miller and andor Rebecca Schaefer in the planning office. Uh until Amy returns, they might be able to give you a little more information as well. Anything else, ladies?

I guess we're um well, if we would get permission, we would like to do some publicity so that we could inform other people in the county. And we certainly welcome if any of you would want to give your support to that press coverage photographs just to let people know the seriousness of this. Um recently the Pittsburgh Post Gazette has put together two on this full page articles regarding the issue the concern across the state of this very very issue. So, we'd be glad to send you the links for that. Um, talking about how nobody knew when when this got opened up how bad it was going to be. Nobody is aware, especially the DP is not aware of the amount of fracking waste that has been dumped here. A lot some has come from Ohio. Um so they're not aware of how much we have and uh how much has been dumped in the waterways and um so but we can be glad to send you further information. And it's going to be an ongoing if not bigger problem in the future. Like it's not like it happened and then okay it's there's lots of waste you know in the present in the future.

And I'm sure I'm stating the obvious but I assume if you haven't done so already that you will be uh reaching out to our state officials, our state house members, our state senators since obviously they have direct tiein with the state regulatory agencies. But again, I'm sure you're way ahead of me on that.

And that's a very good point. And the state uh representatives do have the power to um make the regulations more um strict. In fact, Senator uh Booth has written bills which would say fracking's fine, but just measure the wellhead and find out how what the numbers are at the wellheads to do that because if they found out it was hazardous, they would have to take it to out out west bury it and it' be very costly for the oil and gas industry. So, I I believe the hand is in that the legislators have the power to change this to make it more strict than the EPA. Um, but it would require passage of these bills and the bills have been around now for about two years and they can't even get out of committee. So there's a very strong political sense that doesn't want to regulate the oil and gas industry, but I don't know that they are aware. Certainly our local people we've been in traffic. Yeah, I did talk to um Representative Mara Brown that was probably last year about this time and I gave her um information and some of the legislation and she her comment was that she had no idea and she said I um you know I use the river as a kayak. Um but um yeah, so that's what she had to say.

Ladies, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us. You're welcome to stay for the balance of the meeting, but if you have to move along, we understand. Thank you.

Thank you both. Uh we're still in the public comment period. Are there other I know you folks have an agenda item, but are there any other public comments? Thank you all. Hearing none. Uh moving along. In our packet, we have the uh warrant registers from the county controllers's office, which are also referred to as check reconciliation registers. Um uh they are dated uh January 23 and January 28th. And I'll give uh my colleagues time to look those over. Dan and Chris, whenever you're ready, you're welcome to make a motion for us to accept these documents.

I will make a motion to accept more. I'll second. Thank you, gentlemen. Any questions on Okay. Thank you. Hearing none, we'll ask for a roll call, please. Commissioner Sado, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner, yes. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh, we have the minutes of the January 27 meeting in our packet. Uh, may I please I'll give you gentlemen time to review them. Are you ready to You're ready? I I'll make them. I'll second the motion. Thank you, gentlemen. Any corrections or questions about the minutes? If not, we'll ask Vanessa to call the role. Commissioner Sado, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner Goort, yes. Motion carries.

Thank you. We have three written documents that have come into us over the last week that we will enter into the record. The first is uh from Gateway Engineers. Uh it's hard to make out. Looks like they're in Butler, Pennsylvania. This copy didn't come out too well. It's signed by Ryan Bowser. It is sent on behalf of People's Natural Gas Company indicating that the company intends to submit to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection Northwest Regional Office an application for a general permit 5 utility line crossing for a natural gas line replacement and removal project in the vicinity of both Mercer Street and Church Street in the Burrow of Boland. The second uh document that we have received comes to us from the Pennsylvania American Water Company. The document is signed by Brian Hone, professional engineer. He's with Gateway Engineers on behalf of the PA American Water Company. And this involves the uh organization submitting uh approval from the D for a GP5 permit for a waterline replacement along North Cochran Drive in Shannik Township. And then finally, we've received correspondence from uh Mr. Timothy St. John indicating that he is applying to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection uh under act 14 for a national pollutant discharge elimination system permit for sewage as well as a water quality management part two permit for sewage uh

at the um Twilight mobile home park in Mahoning Township. Gentlemen, these are the three letters. Uh any questions? Hearing none, would you wish to make a motion for us to accept and file these documents? I'll make that motion. I'll second. We'll ask for a roll call, please. Commissioner Sado, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner Vogler, yes. Motion carries. Thank you. That takes us to uh Commissioner reports and comments. And Mr. Kennedy, you're listed first today.

First and foremost, Chip, welcome aboard. We're glad you're here. And I'm sure Diane is um takes a little relief off her. But uh as I said the other day, Diane, thank you. We never missed a beat with you being down there. We appreciate it from up here. All the hard work you did. Chip, welcome aboard. The only other thing I got is, you know, after all the snow, Chris and I got out with Chip on Saturday to go down to Elwood to little beer and wine fest they had down there for a benefit for their beautifification award. But we went down there for a little bit, had a little bit of fun, got to see some people, too. That's about it. That's all I got. All righty. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Simon, I'll just echo uh Commissioner Kennedy's thoughts. Welcome to board chip. I know Chip two years now working with the association and part of the Northwest Caucus region which I'll be at on Friday and you know wish you the best down here in Commissioner Kennedy's comments. I've dealt with you for many years. you're too professional and uh we appreciate you always stepping up. You know, things get tough and uh you know, things are going the right direction. Um and I'm quite confident that Chip, you're going to just keep it going the right way. A lot of positive things will be happening in Lawrence County over the next year or two. Welcome. And I'll just echo uh Commissioner Kenn. It was tough to get out this past weekend with all the snow and everything. We didn't make it down to Elwood City. very nice event. I think it's my third year or fourth year going down for it and it's one of those type of events raised a lot of money and you had all

the locals that were there, different vendors and a nice event and look forward to more events down there that Elwood city does a very nice job with their community oriented events down there. responder Wednesdays and chamber and organization. So, always nice to visit down there. That's pretty much all I have to say. Thank you both, gentlemen. And uh the last to speak uh for those who might be watching and saying, "Well, who's Chip?" Chip Abramovic is as as noted is the new director of Forward Lawrence. And uh this is your second official day on the job, but unofficially I'm being told you've been doing a lot of work prior to this. Uh Mr. Abramovic uh served was it for 10 years, Chip, as Vano County Commissioner, so that's how long you and I have been friends. Uh I'll admit to it. I'm not sure if you will, but I'll admit to it. and um we've enjoyed a a wonderful working relationship all these years and it's just it's it's great that you're going to be part of this community and um uh we wish you all the best. Uh my colleagues are absolutely right. Diane Richardson has held the fourth town along with your other staff members. You've got a great staff, wonderful staff, but we thank you for that. And uh you know that one one thing that the two of you do have in common is is uh public service from the standpoint of Mr. Abramovic having been a county commissioner. Uh Diane uh just a month ago uh was sworn in as a burough council member in the burough of New Wilmington. So we appreciate your community service there as well. So thank you both. I also

want to note uh that um later this week and and Mr. Sonata referenced it. Uh on Friday is the uh meeting of the Northwest Regional Planning Commission. Mr. Sonata is the county's representative to that board. But my understanding is that Mr. Kennedy and Mr. Abramovic are going to attend that meeting. At least that's what I was told. And um I served on that board for a number of years. We served together. It's a great board. Um I'll be home here because uh at 9:00 on Friday in courtroom number two in President Judge Cox's courtroom, he will be holding a hearing on the election board's petition for the consolidation of the former South Newcastle Burough voting precinct with the Shenango Township third district. So, uh, uh, Mr. Geriney, our elections director, will be attending, our county solicitor will be attending, and I'll be representing the board of elections because, again, my two colleagues will be on county business up in Oil City that day. Uh, it's interesting, Chip. Um, uh, up until 31st of December, this county had 10 burrows. And you may have heard that one of the burrows, South Newcastle Burough, the voters a few years ago along with the voters of Sheno Township voted to merge the two. So we now have nine burrows instead of 10. And as I'm sure you know, we have 16 townships and one third class city. Again, I'm sure you knew all that already.

Not at all, Dan. Not at all. Not surprised. Uh so those are those are my comments today. Uh that takes us to uh new business. Uh our first resolution, Vanessa, what number do we give it? 10.

This is proposed resolution 10. The county has been approached by forward Lawrence to give consideration to uh a LERA agreement. LAR stands for local economic revitalization tax assistance law which allows uh uh uh taxing bodies to provide for tax exemption for uh certain deteriorated industrial andor commercial property. What what's before us today is a request that we give consideration for the county uh granting the LERA for uh the zoned area in Hickory Township that is uh defined as light industrial and mixed use highway zones. My understanding is that the Laurel area school district has already voted uh to implement the lura from the standpoint of the school district taxes. what we would be doing would be giving consideration for the county property tax. That all being said, um Chip and or Diane, if if both of you want to come up, if one of you want to come up and make the presentation, uh however you want to do it,

I'll be quick. That's fine. We also have John Richardson here with Richardson Woodworking. This is the project that spurred this conversation, so it' be nice if John had a chance to speak as well.

Absolutely. Yes. Please hold up the chair and uh we look forward to hearing. I I am Am I correct? I just want to be real clear about one thing though that that please gentlemen have have a seat. Uh we are granting this for a zoned area within the township. Not specifically for one company. It's for the zoned area. And it may be the fact that we have a situation where a company either is located or will be located in that zone. That's correct. This is for a zoned area in the township.

In fact, Lura requires they require that the township or the municipality be zoned. So, as you know in Laurel's district, there's other townships there, but they don't have zoning. So, Hickory was really the only one that's eligible for alert. Understood. Thank you for clarifying that. So, gentlemen, I'll I'll turn it over. We welcome you both and uh please proceed.

I'll start real quick. Thank you guys for the kind words. I hope they continue because there's been so many nice things said about me over the past month, more than the past 10 years. It's been an honor to serve with all three of you, especially you, Dan, over the past 10 years, but I didn't expect on my second day as a recovering commissioner to be on the other side of the table in a commissioner's meeting. So, it's a pleasure to be here. Can you give me some pointers? you haven't been a committee. You've sat in this chair. So, I'll take all the pointers I can get.

If you give me one of those badges so I can get through security, we're good. But we're here in the form request. Um Mr. Richardson and his expansion of the um company for a five-year alert. Um it's a routine in nature request for the zoning ordinance. The other the school district approved it and just the formality of approval. Mr. Richardson, you want to tell them a little bit about what your plans are?

Yes. Uh so it it was uh mentioned that this is for a uh for the area that's light industrial. So we own that entire piece of that parcel of property and our plans. This is a partnership between myself and a member of the Aish community. So, it's it's kind of a unique economic situation where it's going to benefit both communities. Uh, this we have an existing business in Warmington Township um that has outgrown its u the area that that we're located in and we don't own that piece of property. So, we bought this particular piece of property from Wendy Paving. It was uh essentially a shuttered uh facility. Uh it was just sitting there not being utilized and we purchased it and we are going to move our sawmill and industrial uh wood manufacturing business into this into this area. We we're planning on building um 10,000 square ft of new uh structures on the property that's going to begin any any time here now and we're going to move the entire operation down. We have room to expand. Currently, we have 10 to 12 full-time employees. Um we intend to see that expand. uh we should over the next year or so add another six to eight employees to to that company plus all of the support that that goes along with this type of

of business. So, and we have a lot of a lot of trucking and and and we buy materials and supplies from other local businesses and of course we're we're manufacturing pallet and industrial wood products for a lot of uh regional companies in the area. So, that's that's essentially our our model what we're doing uh in a nutshell. Well, thank you, sir. And and first and foremost, thank you for your commitment to staying in Lawrence County because I'm sure you had many options. You could have gone north to Mercer or east to Butler or even Ohio, but but you stayed here and and we're grateful for very very grateful for that. Um, this is one I didn't steal from

um just to enter into the record so that we we are clear about this that that this this proposal would again involve the zoned areas in Hickory Township that are light industrial as well as mixed use highway zones. And if I'm reading this map correctly, and Debbie, we we'll have a copy for you if you don't have one already. Well, I'll give you mine. Uh there are the the light industrial zones. There are three of them in Hickory Township. One is along State Route 168 north of the village of Eastbrook. One is uh right in the village of Eastbrook. Uh it borders Brier Hill Road and Eastport Machanic Falls Road as well as uh State Route 168. And then there's a third in the southwest corner of the township uh be north of County Line Road. And then this, if I'm reading this correctly, it also covers the mixeduse highway zones and they are identified on this map as State Route 108, all of Route 108, Hickory Township, which would also be known as Harlingsburg Road, and a portion of State Route 168 in the vicinity of the village of Eastbrook. And again, Debbie, it's very understandable when you you look at the map, which I I'll give you shortly. Um the uh the way in which this is structured is uh it states here the following real estate tax exemption schedule shall become effective when the owner or leie shall occupy and commence use of said property for 5 years immediately following completion of new construction or completion of an improvement to an

existing structure with following real estate tax exemptions. schedule shall be in effect. During the first year, uh the exemption in this case for county property tax would be 100% exempt. In the second year, it drops to 80. The third 60%, the fourth year 40%, the fifth year 20%, after the fifth year, the exemption shall terminate. Uh I have a question. I and I do not mean to embarrass either of the two people in the room named Richardson, but I want to get it on the record to avoid any embarrassment. Are you two related at all?

Not at all. Okay. I just wanted to make that clear because sometimes people see the same last names and you are not related. So, and I didn't I don't want to offend you by asking that question either, but I think it needed to be pointed out. A justifiable question. Thank you, sir. I'm going to see if Mr. Kennedy wish to ask questions. Remember when John came and started talking to you about this? Was I still a township supervisor? I believe you were. You were going to move out of room then. But we appreciate it. As I told you then,

one question you could say no or it's none of your business, but you're still gonna Is this where you're going to make a soft correct? Okay. So that's something that no one knows what software construction. It's that black snake thing that that sits here and you got to stake it in the ground. And we're actually going to make that in Lawrence County now. And that that's pretty to me that's pretty neat because when I had to go get one, I had to go clear over to Ohio somewhere when I was doing a playground park and pick it up. Now we'll be able to get it right here in Orange County. That's pretty neat.

Yes. That's that's actually That's something that we don't currently produce and that's something we're going to be able to do with the new facility. And I'm glad you brought that up because currently the majority of that compost builder soft that's used as erosion controls on virtually every uh construction project in the state of Pennsylvania is either coming from Ohio or it's coming from the eastern side of the state. and our facility will be able to manufacture and supply that particularly the northwestern Pennsylvania in a much more economic fashion than what is currently being supplied to to construction and that is that's anything from heavy highway to to private uh and industrial construction that's using this product realistically it's a waste product and what you're going to be doing that you're actually Correct.

That plus I remember as a kid that was the old B&L asphalt plan years ago down. It's nice that somebody's going to use that area again for especially this I think it's perfect for what you're doing. We thank you. Thank you Dan. Commissioner Sonata. I'll just echo my two colleagues comments. Mr. Rich thank you for your commitment to county.

Absolutely. I think this year is a very reasonable. You're going to create jobs generating tax revenue in a year and I have no problem supporting this. We haven't dealt a whole lot to learn the past two years since I've been here and uh you know sometimes they can become controversial especially 10 year learn what you're asking is very reasonable and uh I think it's it's a good idea and hopefully we'll encourage other businesses along that corridor and u I mean I think this is the type of model you know we look forward to look at future if the little assistance coming from the I think is a good thing. Asking for 10 years of no taxes is not a good thing in my opinion. I think that uh you know you're very reasonable and thank you once again for your commitment and uh look forward to uh you cutting that ribbon join the many others that uh we've had for the past what two years as it moves forward. So look forward to seeing your facility out there once you get it going. So all I have to say.

Thank you, sir. Chip, before you step aside, do you remember Brian Burick? Brian was a commissioner. You may recall when when former commissioner Boyd resigned, our courts appointed Mr. Burick to fill his unexpired term. But prior to that, Brian served three terms, two two terms as commissioner back in the 1990s. He's now our tax claim director. But I you may have met at a CCAP at a CCAP conference in 23. Uhuh. We have. Is this the place for um recovering commission?

You're not coming here. No, I know I'm not. But I'm just saying. There you go. Well, we we're fortunate that Mr.

Can I add one thing too is um we've dealt with learners my whole career. not a lot comparable what you guys have for growth. But one thing I always believe in is there's a tough conversation here talking about 10 years. But this the thought is they're going to leave after 10 years of your tax payments though, but when you have a homegrown business that's invested in the community and bringing in the whole community, there's no risk of building it after five years or after 10 years. I know it's a 5-y year by 10, but the learn is I truly believe a lot of them are designed for to grow our local town. And this is one of those perfect examples of an opportunity to give him an incentive to stay and not go to a neighboring county or even Ohio to help himself grow right here in

you also met Debbie Walker from the Newcastle. I have. Okay. Good. Well, Mr. Richardson, again, thank you for taking time to be with us today and we hope this helps you, but we we wish you uh all the success in the world. Yes, sir. Uh but before we do anything else, we better vote on this. This is proposed resolution 10. Assuming you gentlemen and and and Diane, you're agree with your presentation. Uh may I have a motion then for resolution 10? I'll make that motion. I'll second that motion. There are no other concerns. I'll ask for a roll call, please. Commissioner Sado, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner, yes. Motion carries.

Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thank Thank you. Uh Debbie, when I give you the entire packet, this document will be with you. Okay. Thank you. I'll be right back. As we say to all the other folks, you're welcome to stay. We know you're busy people. If you have to leave, we understand. I second. I'm not that busy. Thank you again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Richardson. Uh resolution 11, uh Donald Andrews is with us from our children and youth services office. Donald, hope you're hope you're doing well. Yes, sir.

Thank you for joining us again. And this resolution involves the Children's Advocacy Center out in Union Township. It looks like we're making a uh an amendment to it, but I'll let you give us all the specifics. Yes, this is just a uh we are putting the 44 request for our existing contract just to update the rates similar to what we have been doing as an ongoing process. Since we transferred a fee for service, we are monitoring rates. So, our rate sheets are updated for our three different programs. And and you were kind enough to attach uh attach the document uh for those rates. Family reunification, parents as teachers, and forensic interviewer, multidisciplinary team. Did I get that right?

Okay. Thank you, Donald. Mr. Sam, do you have questions for Mr. Andrews? No, I think this is three weeks in a row. We'll be back next week. That's all right. You keep doing what you're going on. We appreciate you really. I think you really fitting well in that position, but we used to have our good friends Mike. Mike, but now you're doing you're doing fine. I think that you follow good steps. Thank you, Chris. and I'll see if Commissioner Kennedy has any questions. Uh, gentlemen, you've heard the request made by Mr. Andrews. This is proposed resolution 11. May I have a motion?

I'll make that and I'll second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Vanessa, could you call the role, please? Commissioner Santo, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner, yes. Motion carries. Thank you, Donald. Good to see you. Uh, guess we'll see you next week as I heard you say. Thank you again. Take care.

Proposed resolution 12 comes to us from uh Mr. Bureick, Brian Bureick, who is the director of our tax claim office. And uh he has uh I think a very interesting proposal that he'd like for us to consider. And uh I think you you have some supporting documents to go along with the resolution. Thank you very much. And uh Brian, I'll uh I'll turn it over to you so you can uh fill us in once you get settled in. Thank you, commissioners. uh at your advice or recommendation last year I attended two of the Pennsylvania Tax Claim Bureau Association conferences and as you guys do at CCAP you learned from other counties what works well and something that came to my caught my attention I heard a few presentations and then I talked to multiple tax directors there's a trend to move tax claim bureau tax sales to online sales and there's two main companies that do this um I met with representatives of both of companies and I think I provided both all of you with background information on one company. Uh our neighbors to the south of Beaver County just a few weeks ago hired this company that I'm recommending today. This company is called Gov Ease Auction LLC. They're a company they operate in 13 states. They currently they've been doing online auctions for the past three years in Pennsylvania. Uh the first county was York County. I spoke to the director of tax planning in York County and she raved about that's the best move they ever made. Um, as you know, there's many steps with tax claim sale. There's three steps that are particularly time consuming to the tax claim staff and burdensome to the biders. And those are the three functions that this online

company would basically take over on our behalf working with us. One is registering biders. By law, at least two weeks before the sale, someone who wants to bid at a public tax sale must register as a bidder. They used to have to travel to the courthouse and register in person. They have to fill out all this paperwork, provide copies of their ID, and a whole week my staff would have a line of people at the counter. As you recall, last spring we had over 150 people registered our free and clear sale. Commissioner Kendi was up there. The courtroom was overwhelmed with people and it was very challenging process. The second aspect they take over is the day of the sale. Instead of conducting the sale in person and tying up one of our courtrooms, this company has a website where anybody who's a registered bidder can go online sitting at their computer on their tablet or on their phone from home or their office, wherever they want to be, but they don't have to make a physical trip into the courthouse and they can bid on properties. They'll be bid off one at a time just like we did in person. And then at the end of the sale last year, me and my staff had to stay in account $565,000 and then the next day deposit that at our local West Banko. And that was a 12-h hour day for me and my staff. We don't mind working hard, but the way this company works, the winning biders submit their payments electronically, and within three to five days, that money is transferred with a full report into the county's bank account. And then the final step that this company can handle for us, out of those 150 biders, the majority of them did not end up either bidding on a property or we're not a winning bidder and they were entitled to a refund. They had to put a $500 deposit down. Last year, I had to write out 80 checks and mail them back to the biders because many of the biders are from out of county or out of the state and mail those checks out and that took time and effort and postage, etc. this company would refund the bidder's registration electronically. So, the bottom line is I'm proposing and the uh contract is right here. I've given a copy to our solicitor Jason Madori. He and I have reviewed it. I've talked to

other counties. In fact, I just talked to Beaver County this morning. They signed the same contract two weeks ago. Um, and here's the bottom line. There's no cost at all to the county for this service. So, how does this county make their money? Two ways. one, the biders who want to been registered to bid at our tax sales would have to pay a $35 registration fee. But again, they that saves them at least two trips to the courthouse, time, money, gas, etc. So there's not been a problem in the other counties where they've had to pay this fee. And then the second way is if someone is a successful bidder, they do have to pay a 3% buyer's premium. All of you eating at a restaurant now, what do many of them do? They charge you an extra 3% for the convenience of putting on a credit card. So for people in the future, if we go ahead with this proposal to buy properties online, they will pay a 3% premium. As for example, if they pay a $1,000 property, they'll pay an extra, you know, $30. If they buy a $10,000, they'll pay an extra. They'll pay a 3% premium for the convenience of bidding on properties online versus traveling into Lawrence County. So again, uh, I'll answer any questions you have. I did give each a handout. There's benefits to both the county actually could potentially lower some of our costs. There's a potential benefit to the biders. They don't have to travel here at least twice. Many of them come in more for the updated list of the sale that'll be available to them online. And then the bottom line is uh at least 12 other counties in Pennsylvania have done this. Um and there's several more that are currently under contract and started this year. and where it's been done in every county, the number of biders who participate goes up increases the numbers of properties that get sold and the average price paid per parcel goes up. And how does that benefit the county? As you know, when we sell a property at a tax sale, first thing we do, the bureau collects our costs. Then the second thing we do is we pay the back taxes and the current taxes. And if

there's money left after that, we pay commonwealth leans, we pay mortgages, and if there's any money left over after all the leans are paid on the property, that excess money goes back to the previous homeowner. So, we've actually had people who, and many times it's elderly people who pass away or go in a nursing home and their family doesn't keep up with the property taxes, but if there's any money left from the proceeds, that money goes back to the previous owner or to the estate of the previous owner. So, um, I believe it's a winning proposal for the county. Again, there's no direct cost at all to the county. The biders pay a small fee and then the successful buyers pay a small 3% premium, but it'll it actually makes it easier for me and my staff. We still have to do all the other steps, the advertising and the preparing for the sale and the notifications, but it helps us with bidder registration week. There's less traffic coming out of the courthouse. Sale day is much easier and less stressful for us and the biders. They don't have to travel here and wait in lines, get the pitter number and the courtroom off the courtroom and then after the sale they we get our money within five days and after the sale any bids didn't buy get their refund back very quickly. That's done electronically instead of waiting for a paper check. Does anyone have any questions?

Well, first I I thank you for uh your uh doing all of your due diligence on this. Uh my understanding is that uh this is considered a professional service. So it did not necessitate sealed bids, but for that matter, it'd be difficult to do sealed bids because they're not asking for us to spend money to hire them. Correct. Uh would not cost us anything to hire them. But your understanding is there are two companies that offer this service and you reached out to both of them and and examined what their respective proposals are. Correct.

And you reached the conclusion that the one that you're recommending today is is better of two from from where you sit.

The biggest difference the other companies called Bid for Assets. They charge a 5% buyer premium. This company only charge a 3%. and the other company, they open up a 24-hour window where people can bid online and pretty much you have to wait till the end of the sale because people wait to see who got bid on and what. This company bids off property that we still have to advertise and notify people the day of the sale, the time of the sale. The biders have that information in advance, but that day it actually goes live auction on a on their website and I'll be able to sit in the tax team office and monitor it as it happens that they bid off properties one at a time. So, I like the format better. And again, they only charge a 3% buyer premium. The other company charges a 5% buyer premium.

Your next sale is uh is it free and clear or is it upset? The next sale is the free and clear sale. Legally, it's known as the judicial sale. That'll be held on April 23rd of this year. That answered my second question. And if we approve this today, does that give you and your staff and the company enough time to pull everything together that it could be applicable to the the next sale in April? Yes. Okay. How do you how would they go about either you or they or both of you, how would you notify prospective biders of this change?

What we do every year is we post the information at our tax team window. We also put it on our tax claim bureau website which was part of the county's website and we've already been getting calls the last few weeks when is the sale when is registration week and so as soon as this is approved I would meet with this company and then lay out the logistics and within a week I would have our website updated and at least 30 days prior to the sale their website link would be live and biders could go on simply go online again from their phone from their tablet or from their computer. My final question, how would this affect, if you're able to answer this, a non computer savvy person who would wish to bid, do they have any options or do they have to maybe get some assistance from a relative or a friend who is computer savvy? Has that been talked about?

We did think of that. There may be a few you know older folks who may not have uh as savvy but what we would do in that case is if somebody really came to us and said I want to participate but I don't have computer access we would help them register through our computer at the office uh we would we would accommodate biders as well but as you know everything pretty much today almost they say 99% of adults in America today have a smartphone so you don't even have to have a computer this can you can actually register as a bidder and bid on a on a to phone with an internet connection. So, I don't believe that'll be a problem, but we would we would try to accommodate the world. The world has moved online. Understood. I'm glad to hear that because we don't want to we don't want to freeze anybody out from having the opportunity to pit. So, I'm glad to hear that. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy.

I'm the oldest one up here and I look what I use. So, I don't go along with that anymore. No grandkids can teach them how to run a computer. I think um Brian when I went to before you were here I went over across the street sat up in the balcony and I for about two hours and this stupid brand of mine looks at said boy this is such a waste of time and then I went to your sale and you were I I couldn't believe how well you guys did over here wanted to five with the amount of room we had. Um, but it works fine. And but then I come down and I'm probably here till 4:00 that day and I walk out and there's a line clear out the door here. I'm waiting to pay and it's to me that was just a waste of time, waste of your time. So when you came to this, I had talked to somebody at the Cap Conference about this. I thought this will be the future for us down the road. Didn't think it'd be this year, but I'm sure glad you took it upon yourself to get this done. I'm waiting for May to hit here so we can turn around and look and say how easy this was and how well it went. I got all the faith in a world of you and your team up there and I'm sure they'll come through and they'll be happy and they'll go home at 5:00 at the latest. Hopefully, you won't have to buy pizza this time. Again, this has been done successfully. At least 10 other counties have done their sales online. There's now 12 counties under contract. Neighbor County, they just signed the contract two weeks ago. They're going to start their sales this year. Uh the good news is this is only a one-year agreement. At the end of the year, if for any reason we want to go back and do in person, we have that option. But everything goes well with our two sales this year, then we can always renew this contract in the future. But uh York County started this in 23. They did both their sales in 23, 24, and 25. And the director told me at our last tax new conference,

she would never go back. Anything else? I'm just hoping you say the same thing down the road because it's been done elsewhere in Pennsylvania and done successfully. I believe that we should we should give it a try. Exactly. And again, at no cost to the county taxpayers. I I like we had a casual conversation about this and I liked your guinea pig line. You didn't want to be the first. Yeah. And we're not the first. We're not the first.

I appreciate that you pointed that out, Christopher. Give me one second, please. Uh, in your conversations with your staff and possibly even with solicitor, I don't know. Did you ask either of those folks, either your staff or the solicitor or both, what their thoughts were? Did any of you give them the chance to offer their opinion on this?

Yes. Uh, my staff is all for it. Again, it eliminates several 12-hour days for us. Uh, several of my staff were part of the collective party agreement. those days we're required if they work more than uh eight hours we're required to pay them overtime or comp time that's going to eliminate that additional expense. Um people seeing the lines at my window around sale time. This is going to cut down on the number of people have to come through security checkpoint have to wait in long lines. Uh so my staff is all for it. The solicitor uh reviewed the contract has no problem. The he said the only caveat and but this is the this is the way of the world. We're making it easier for out of town people to bid on property. But for example, we have a regular who bids every year. He's from Philadelphia. He drove in last week just to get information. He wants to register. He's planning to come back, but he's not going to have to make the trip back to register again for the day of the sale. He's going to pay a $35 registration fee, but he's going to save hundreds of dollars in gas and tolls and time and traveling here. So, I think overall, uh, you know, I think I think the the benefits, as I listed here, far outweigh any downside. Will there be a few local people who like to come and bid every year to see what properties for sale and don't want to pay a small registration fee? Maybe. But again, uh, to me, the convenience of not having to make two trips to the courthouse is worth paying a small bitter registration fee.

And we might get more people here locally to bid on it, too, because it's easier for, right? Because technically right now you'd have to either be leave work or take a day off or only retired people. So this will actually open up the bidder pool and again every county has done this the number of people who register as potential biders goes up which makes the sale more successful. Thank you. Commissioner Sonat do you know what percentages of people from out of town?

I should have brought that down. Last year, um, twothirds of the people were out of the county and we have people from seven other states. We have people from, uh, New Jersey, Delaware, uh, Virginia, New York, Connecticut, Florida. Um, so it was definitely over half of the people who bid at our auction last year were not Lawrence County residents to begin with. And that's just not the Lawrence County. No, we're bidden all over the state,

right? Within our tax bureau association, we share the bidder list because we make sure if somebody is what we call a bad actor. For example, somebody comes to a sale and bids on property and then never pays for the property, they're banned from bidding at future sales for two years. So, we do share that and every county in the state, the majority of biders are from outside of that county. I just I think I do diligence in this. It makes sense. I think this is the future and looked at every aspect of it and when it comes down to it, this is actually going to save the county. Yes, I believe it will.

You made major points about not being able to pay overtime less, you know, other options. I like the idea though that the $35 fee most if not 80 or 90% of people actually be saving money residents just because one they don't have to miss a day of work potentially at the end you know gas and all the other stuff it makes sense you know look at it on paper and I think that you know like you said 98% plus to do it in the phone this is my phone I do most of my stuff on here I mean, we really don't need that computer. Okay. And I and I commend you and your staff if we have a senior or someone who needs that assistance and provided for. Okay. So, there's no nobody's going to be able to say we can't get it if we wanted to. Okay. So, I think we've covered the bases here and it's one plan. It makes sense. Um, we've done a lot I think the last two years up here with our technology moving forward. We actually save money for the county by doing these type of things. This is just one of many which has happened and we have many more planned in the future starting you know lights with everything that will actually save. So we appreciate your efforts and timeliness. This tell gives them an idea of how valuable sometimes conference can be. you come back with an idea, it's gonna save money. And uh that's why we wanted you to go and we're happy that you did. And I'm looking forward to this. And I'm happy to see Beaver County as well. You know, Tony, Jack, guys down there. Um they do their due diligence as well.

They bring the same contract on January 22nd a few. Yeah, I feel very even more comfortable. I felt comfortable before, but knowing they and they do a lot of research just like we do up here. So, I feel very comfortable about that. So, um, looks good. Uh, let's hope it's it's going to go just as smooth as as planned. It's gonna I think at the end of the day, 90 plus% will be happier doing it this way. Just saying to them because you know what even I times you can be on this computer sitting in your office as compared to actually sitting in that courtroom waiting and going through. So, all right. I appreciate everything you did on this.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Sonata. This is proposed resolution 12. Let me uh enter into the record the uh sentence that basically summarizes what it is we're doing. Now therefore, be it resolved by the Lawrence County Board of Commissioners that authorization is granted to enter into and execute the attached agreement between the County of Lawrence and Dove Ease Auction LLC, providing an online auction website that will give third-party users the ability to register and bid at the Lawrence County Tax Claim Bureau Judicial and Upset Tax Sales held every year. The agreement commences February 3, 2026 through February 3, 2027 with automatic one-year renewal terms at no cost to the county. This is proposed resolution 12. If you gentlemen are ready, I could take a motion for it. I'll make that motion.

I'll second the motion.

Thank you both. Any final concerns or comments? Brian, anything else? Just reminder what you already know but for the record Chris mentioned uh last year the county moved the remember when the bid the controller used to have to come in for all the bids and open paper bids. That whole process has been moved online and it's working well from my understanding. So again this is the the way of the world today. eBay is a big company because people instead of running to 10 stores you go on eBay and find any product and bid what you're what you're willing to pay for it. So online auctions been happening on you know auctions been happening on the internet for many years successful. This company's been doing it for over 10 years. Uh they've been doing it over this is the fourth year in Pennsylvania. So I think this is a worthwhile it's going to benefit the county and benefit over all the biders. So thank you for your consideration.

Thank you and thank you for all the work you put into this. Uh I believe I need a motion. Do I not? We have a motion in the second. Thank you. I'm sorry. We'll take a roll call then please. Commissioner Sado. Yes. Commissioner Kennedy. Yes. Commissioner Goldberg. Yes. Motion carries. Thank you. Brian, thank you. Thank you all very much.

And as we say to everybody else, you're welcome to stay, but if you have to head upstairs, we certainly understand. Next on the agenda, we have one administrative transfer request from Children and Youth Services. It is for a $12,000 transfer coming from contracted provider care line item into the case worker visitation grant line item. Any concerns, gentlemen? May I have a motion for the request? If there are no other questions, we'll take a roll. Commissioner, yes. Commissioner Kennedy, yes. Commissioner, yes. Motion carries.

Takes care of our voting matters. Uh, we'll move on to some announcements. Uh, this board of commissioners will reconvene a week from today, Tuesday, February 10, at 10:00 a.m. in this room, open to the public. Following that meeting on February 10, uh the quarterly meeting of the retirement board will take place. That will include the three commissioners, the controller, and the treasurer. Uh that meeting is also open to the public. And then one week from tomorrow, this isn't on the uh on the printed agenda, but one week from tomorrow, the Lawrence County Planning Commission will hold their monthly public meeting on Wednesday, February 11th at 12 noon. They will be meeting at the Slippy Rock Township Municipal Building out on US Route 422. Uh like Vanessa had to step out for a second. So, while we're waiting, uh, closing comments from my fellow commissioners. Mr. Sonata,

I'll just emphasize what you said, chairman, and Brian. I think, uh, Dave was here last week when he modernized the way things and that was the same to the county uh, that you have this week with, uh, Brian Dur with the, uh, tax claim office. coming up with potentially other ways that we're saving. So, I mean, this is really like two weeks in a row we've really got into the technology. So, I'm just pleased to see that. It's good. We have people who think these ideas to help us because we can do so much, but doing this thing, we appreciate Thank you. I I goofed up here a little bit. I jumped ahead to closing commissioner comments and I'm gonna go to Mr. Kennedy next. Immediately after that, I'll open it up for public comment. I didn't want to forget our last public comment opportunity, but your final comments, Mr. Kennedy.

I have really none. Um it's been a good meeting. I got a lot done. Glad for Mr. Richard here. He's been a friend for years and has got many businesses up in Mer County. He's he's down here now and hopefully someday we can give him the rest of you. John's John's a good guy. He's been a friend of my family for years and has built some pretty successful businesses right over the Mercer County line. Appreciate that. Thank you.

Uh now I will open the floor for public comment. Debbie open for public. I do have your packet. We're finished. Mr. Abramovic. Anything? How much time do we have? We say five minutes. I've spent a lot of time with you through the past month. I'm okay. By the way, this is a somewhat longer than average meeting. Uh, we're usually done in 40 45 minutes, but we have a number of folks visiting. So, this this one went a little longer than usual. Chris talks too much. I I'm going to stick around and get one coffee before I got to go. I better off some. Did you say you want coffee? I'm going to steal coffee.

You know, we're directing. Okay. I think you already know. Okay. But no, thanks for taking the time to join us. And we just wish you nothing but the best, Chip. And we're here to I know you're going to work most closely with this gentleman because he's on your board. Bad idea. He He works so hard at what he does. We all do. But but he has really focused on economic issues and but we're all here for you. I appreciate it. I am truly excited. It's been a great day in three hours.

That's great. You know, the thing is from day one when you said you were gonna do this, from me beating somebody else up at CCAP conference, took the job and then said no, we didn't want it. Um, it's a blessing that we found good from day one. I think I called you right after you got the job and said, "Hey, can you go to Pittsburgh for me?" And you jumped at it and went. Um, and you've been a lot of other places here in Orange County in the meantime. We thank you for stepping up to the plate. We're gonna have we're gonna have a fun time.

It'll be We'll get different ideas what we should do in Orange County. Just going to listen to your friends up in an angle. They all spoke very highly and said he's your guy, but we're going to miss him. Well, nice thing is it's only 40 minutes away. You're not far. Not bad at all. Until I now been online and get a new house. I have a $500 house for you. You'll like kick doors in the know. I know.

Have you met Mr. Vanasco, our county administrator and our deputy chief clerk is Vanessa Fis. So, you can put names with faces. Speaking of Vanessa, Joe, anything we've overlooked? No, sir. Well, that being said, thank you for your patience today and I'll request an adjournment motion. We adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Thank you.