Transportation Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

Think about so mine was doing that but didn't do it.

No, mine. I signed it. Right. You don't have to. That's for public speaking. It's probably for public speaking.

Everybody ready? All right, so the building review board meeting for 08/20/2025 is now called to order. We'll start with roll call. Branham? Here. Danalsky? Here. Gross? Here. Hansen? Here. Hognes? Here. Llewellyn? Yes. Nalwala?

Yes.

Myself, Ramon and Wanner? Okay. So we have a quorum so we can get started with the meeting. Our first item of business is public forum. If there's any members of the public that wish to speak on matters other than items that are on the agenda, those that wish to speak on a specific agenda item will be provided an opportunity to do so. Members wishing to speak shall state their name and address for the record. I do have a list of folks here that wish to speak. And I'll just go down that list. The first one on the list is Barbara Benson. Come on up, please.

BARBARA Hi. I'm Barbara Benson. Can you hear me? Okay. I'm Barbara Benson, resident of Naperville.

Also I

need your address. Please name and Sure.

2512 Spartina Road, Naperville, 60564.

Thank you.

Can I start?

Proceed.

JAMES Okay. I'm the chair of NEST's Building and Development Committee. And I'm here to urge you to recommend the adoption of the Illinois stretch code. This is because it's not just a smart move for the environment, it's a smart investment for Naperville's future. Let's start where it matters most, our residents.

Homes and buildings built to stretch code standards are more energy efficient, saving the average homeowner up to $250 a year on utility bills. That's money that stays in their pockets year after year. And that efficiency isn't just about savings. It means better insulation, less noise, fewer drafts, and healthier indoor air. It means homes that are more comfortable and require less maintenance.

For Naperville's builders and businesses, the stretch code offers an opportunity, not a burden. Demand is rising for high performance, energy smart homes. Buyers want homes that are comfortable, cost effective, and future ready. Energy efficient homes appraise higher, sell faster, and stand out in a competitive market. And by getting ahead of the curve now, our builders will be better positioned as state and federal efficiency standards continue to rise as well as increasing homebuyer demand.

At the city level, the benefits compound. Energy efficiency drives job creation in construction, manufacturing, and clean tech, sectors already strong in Illinois. Implementing the stretch code would reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, improve grid stability, and help Naperville do its part to meet climate goals, goals that matter to today's families and tomorrow's generation. Now let's talk about the elephant in the room, upfront costs. According to an analysis by the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory done in 2024, approximate new construction cost of a single family home with a basement to meet the energy efficiency requirements of the stretch code is approximately $3,300 Yes, building to the stretch code standard may cost slightly more, but those added costs are more than offset by utility savings over the life of the home and can often be reduced with tax credits, rebates, and incentives.

This is not about adding burden. It's about adding value. Over the course of a typical thirty year mortgage, an average home buyer will save approximately $6,500 in energy cost savings and approximately $8,400 in avoided future retrofit costs. Finally, in a time when extreme weather events are becoming more and more common, homes that meet the stretch code are simply more resilient. They keep families safer, more comfortable, and more secure.

I look forward to the next meeting of the BRB when you can hear an in-depth presentation on the stretch code. By recommending their adoption, you help ensure that we stay ahead protecting homeowners, supporting local businesses, and building a stronger, more sustainable future for our community. Thank you.

Thank you. The next speaker is Hammill.

Good afternoon. My name is Mary Hamill, H A M I L L, and I reside at 852 Mobile Court in Naperville. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to this board again regarding the Accessible Community Task Force's recommendation to add visibility to the Naperville Building Code. I hope you all had the opportunity to read the packet of information we passed out at the last BRB meeting, as well as the materials we sent to city staff to forward to you with updated information. Guiding principle number one of the city of Naperville's master plan is, quote, ensuring housing is diverse, responsive to the community needs, and accessible to everybody, end quote.

Visibility was first proposed in Naperville in 2002 at a city council meeting. A developer who ended up building his property with visibility made the statement at the meeting, quote, if you can't get in, what do you do, end quote. At the Naperville Builders Breakfast, the ACTF had the opportunity to present visibility to architects, developers, and builders in our community. I shared a quote I once read about home building that said, when someone builds a home, they're not just building it for themselves. That home is going to be around for one hundred years.

We need to build homes that align with the goals in our master plan, which serve the needs of our community now and in the future. We need a building code that not only provides the rules and standards for the design and construction of homes, but for the performance of homes. We need homes that stand as symbols of progress and foresight. We have an opportunity now to build a future where every home is a haven for all. Thank you.

Thank you, Mary. Next is Elena Humphries.

Thank you very much. Can you hear me all right?

Yes, we can. Thank

you. Beautiful. Okay, one second please. You ready? Okay, my name is Elena Humphries. Hi over there. I am at 329 Clarence Circle in Bolingbrook. I am here as one of the founding members of the Accessible Community Task Force of Naperville. I wanted to thank you for this opportunity to talk to you. And I would like to urge you also to please reconsider the full adoption of the visibility code, the no step entry.

It's not a small detail. It is the foundation of whether the community chooses to be inclusive or whether we continue to leave many of our neighbors, quite literally, at our doorsteps. Twenty six percent of US adults live with a disability, and nearly fourteen percent of households include at least one person currently with a disability. There was a study in the Journal of Urban Planning that says that over the course of a home's life, nearly sixty percent will house somebody with a significant mobility disability over that lifetime. The cost of rehabbing a home is astronomical, where the cost of doing it from the beginning is relatively very minor, sometimes even under $1,000 So as a person who has lived in Bolingbrook where this has been codified, This is utterly life changing for residents.

There are 4,600 homes in Bolingbrook that I can go to, make friends with people, and never have to ask for special treatment. I can just go visit them and have a cup of coffee. That kind of thing shows that you really care about who lives in your town. You care about the quality of their life. Like the curb cut effect that Stanford has written papers about, though, it's not just about the people with the mobility disability.

Parents with strollers have a much easier time entering the house without waking their babies. People delivering furniture, using rolling dollies, etcetera. So I just think that it would be an incredible opportunity to become one of less than 10 places in the world that lead the charge on showing people what inclusivity really means in practice and valuing your citizenry. And I am glad you had a chance to review that packet. I am happy to talk further later after we discuss the codes and such and the recommendations. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. Mark, can you do me a favor? Can you remind us? There was four items that were requested in that. One was the no step entrance, one no step entrance. Second was the 32 inches clear doorways. Third was the 42 inches passageways. And the fourth was provide accessibility for the 1st Floor powder room with blocking in the walls for grab bar. Some of that has already been approved and some has. What has been approved, what hasn't?

So we currently have an amendment to the IRC that includes blocking in the 1st Floor bathroom powder room at the required height. We do not have the accessibility requirement in our amendment for the 1st Floor powder room. I think they're looking for a 32 inches clear path. We do not have that.

And the ability to turn

in the back. JOSHUA And the ability to turn in that powder room, we do not have that. We just have the blocking. And we have the door width requirement, 32 inches clear opening on the 1st Floor for accessible doors. So a pantry may not be an accessible door, but a powder room obviously is. So we have those now in addition to outlet and light switch requirements to meet the visibility. But we do not have the 42 inches clear hallway requirement. My opinion is that's kind of a builder standard that I rarely see a hallway less than 42. And then, and we don't have the zero step entrance.

All right, thank you. Next speaker is Christian Zenger.

Christian Zenger, 529 Spruce Drive. I'm a local builder in Naperville. I guess I'm just making my name known. I'd like to be part of this process moving forward with the building review board. I understand there's more meetings coming up. And I think that I just want to make sure that we are receiving it sounds like there's going be a stretch presentation. We're going to receive all of that information for our review as a builder, my review as a builder, before giving further comments. Is that the case?

Okay.

Can I respond to that?

Sure.

So this process has been going on for over a year now. Yes. And yes, you are absolutely invited to play a role in that process. We'll be having another meeting in a month, and stretch codes will be on that agenda,

as

well as a final recommendation for everything that we've talked about so far. So if you need anything, just reach out to me, and I'll send you. And it's all on the website, on the agenda.

Great. Yeah, I'm jumping into this. I got notified late yesterday of this meeting, so I just want

to make

sure I know the process. Thank you.

KRISTEN, just real quick. The address that you've written down here is a little bit different than what stated.

Oh, I did give my business address. My business is located.

So either one's fine, the 216 East Ogden.

You can reach me either way.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Tanny Daker. Okay, no worries. Next speaker, Chad Meiss.

Yeah, my name is Chad Meese. I live at 81 Red Start Road in Naperville. My business address is 522 North Washington Street in Naperville. I am also a Naperville builder. Just like Christian and everybody else, you know, I basically signed in, but I did want to come up and just express that I, as a Naperville builder, I would like to find out avenues to get the information.

We have not, and shame on us for not, or myself, for not getting the information as far as any of the proposals that have been sent and the stretch code request to adopt the new stretch code. There are concerns, and I could express those. But I'd like to see kind of what's been put forward to date you know one of them that's never talked about is the cost of the infrastructure to prepare to build homes that meets meet these new stretch codes we're already putting car charging ready stations in a house which requires typically at a minimum a 20 amp dedicated circuit to it my understanding of what else is coming forward is gonna require a lot more circuit ready. Doesn't mean we have to pull wire or have anything to it yet, but we have to have the power available to provide that if it is put in place in the future which is pretty much gonna put every new home at a 400 amp service and again I would like to get more information to understand exactly if what I'm speaking is the truth. But as a builder for the last twenty years in this town, I think it was already if you started bringing power to every charging station that is going to be built over the next several years, we do not have the infrastructure to support it.

I did hear somebody say as well that we've had very consistent electrical service in Naperville. And I think that's something that Naperville has done a great job. I don't know. I heard a statistic. It was less than, like, sixteen minutes of downtime in this city.

I have a concern when you start demanding 400 amp services in every home. Car charging stations electric ovens and all this high demand not to mention possibly switching service providers that there that is not going to be the case moving forward so just want to really make sure that we, as a building community and we are an advocate. We're not here to we just want to make sure that it makes sense what we're doing, that all the facts are out there so that people can make an educated decision as a community moving forward, both in new building. I primarily do remodeling. And so at what point are these now going to be part of the requirements as far as a remodeler?

And sure, in new construction, it's a lot cheaper if we're retrofitting an entire house, every door opening, new services, know, zero threshold for everything, walk in a house. Starts to add up pretty quick. And, are we forcing people to tear every house down and just start over? So there's just a lot of things that I'd be very curious to see. Want to understand. I want to express that, make sure that everybody has all the information moving forward, we can make an educated decision as a community. Thanks.

Thank you, Chad. So the next item for today, have two items. One is to approve the meeting minutes from the last building review board meeting. Do the commissioners have any corrections or clarifications on the 05/21/2025 meeting minutes as drafted? Any questions from anyone? Okay. So all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? Okay. So the meeting minutes are approved. The next item is continuation of building review board case 111 to provide feedback on significant changes identified through the 2024 building code update. We'll start with the city staff presentation, please.

Thank you. My name is Mark Dudash, chief building official. Let me start off by addressing some of the comments. As far as the stretch code goes, that's going to be next month, And we did that on purpose. We isolated that one because it is such a complex topic. There's a lot of misunderstanding. There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of information, lots of misinformation. But it is a very complex topic. And I'll be sending all you guys a lot of information in the next month in preparation for that.

And I'll send it to anybody else that's interested also. But it's going to be a debate. And then next month also I'll be looking for formal recommendations on all these codes that we've talked about far. Tonight, my plan is to continue the talk about the significant code changes going from the 2018 to the 'twenty four codes. I have sent everybody and it's been in the agenda in the attachments.

I have two lists. I have a master list that has about 136 significant code changes that have been identified. There are far more than 136, but those are just the highlights out of all the codes that we adopt here in town. And then there's a top 50 list that kind of breaks it down a little bit farther. But I'd love to answer any questions that you guys may have on that.

After that I'd like to go into staff recommendations and we can we can talk further on that and then we'll bring up in the IRC is the visibility which has been brought up already and we can we can revisit that and talk about that in-depth if we need to And keep in mind, next month we will be meeting again and we can discuss some of the issues that are kind of lingering. But again, next month I do I am going to need some recommendation on how to proceed. So does anybody have any questions about these significant code changes? And if you do, are they in the master or the top 50 list?

I've got questions in the top 50 list.

Okay.

I put mine in the master list. Why don't you go first, Denise?

Okay. Okay. So I'll go ahead and start item number one. Just a quick question on that. Are there any ventilation revisions? Would talk about sprinkler, but are any ventilation requirements revisions need to

be made? In number one, you mean item number one?

Item one in the top 50, yeah. Talks about the battery systems, battery storage systems.

You know, to be honest, I can't answer that off the top of my head right now. But I know that the sprinkler requirements have been changed drastically because of the thermal runaway of the lithium ion batteries. Mainly in garage areas and battery storage areas. Mechanically, as far as ventilation goes, I can't tell you off the top of my head. But I would say absolutely, yeah.

I think Yeah. I'll get

back to on a definite answer.

Hey, Lisa. I'm going to jump in here. It's on the same topic. So on the master list, it was also called sprinkler protection for batteries. So I think that's exactly the same thing. And doing some research, water and lithium is not the way to go. So I think that's why you probably have the fire department looking at this.

Unfortunately, stop me if I'm speaking out of turn here, Ben. But ultimately in the beginning, it's just keeping that heat down and just, right? Just keep it cool, pour as much water as you possibly can on it until you can get some sort of chemical.

That's the main idea of that is to with the sprinkler requirement is to keep it cool until we can do other measures to try to put the fire out. There are other alternative we'll say alternative suppression systems out there that may also be instilled in this. But you're always going to have the sprinkler as a backup to whatever is put into the storage area.

All right. And just I guess for clarification, I thought adding water to lithium actually could make the fire grow. Or am I

Depends on the situation. I hate to say that, but it depends. It depends. It depends. I mean, if it's on a runaway and just smoking, the water will help it stay down. Like you say. If it's literally on fire, the water is going to keep it contained to where it's at instead of spreading it Okay. To any other Again, you're welcome.

My next comment was, I think three and four are repeats, just a quick point to make there. And then the next one I had a question on was item 16. Are we doing inspections or are we doing testing? Because the Com D talks about inspections and Com M talks about actual third party testing. So are we just doing inspections of it that, yes, it's been installed checkbox? Or are we actually testing to make sure these fire stops and things are actually working? So you're on the top 50 list? Yeah, top 50 list. I'm sorry. All mine are on top 50 list.

JOSEPH Okay. So this is third party testing,

yes.

So they have their methods. And I believe, generally, the third party testing, it's almost sometimes it's almost taking a core sample of the actual fire stop in some cases, you know, just to make sure it's the right depth, the right thickness per the manufacturer's installation instructions, which is really the key with these types of systems.

So the city staff would do the inspection to make sure it's been installed. Yeah. And then the third party would come in and do actual Exactly. Testing Yeah.

Kind of like steel connections, right? We're going to make sure they're bolted together, but we're not going to get up there and torque test them. Know, It's a third party specialist that's going to do this. Because these systems are getting very complicated.

Got it. All right. Item 17 talks about allow steeper slopes for exterior landings. My only concern with that was just ice formation. You know, sometimes it's so cold that immediately ice forms and there's any slippage issues for people versus when it's more flat.

Yeah. I think they put this in there as kind of just relief because the old code was so strict with the 2% that sometimes you just can't meet that. And you want a more slope to get that water away to prevent the ice.

The wording on this one was odd in that it said you can pitch in the direction of exit travel. And if I've got a landing and I've got a ramp coming perpendicular to the wall, that's fine and good. It's already going to be a ramp. But if I've got a stair or a ramp going parallel to that sidewall, and if I have to pitch going down the ramp, that doesn't help bring that water away from the house. I think that if we're going to adopt it, the wording should say allow it to pitch away from the structure rather than in the direction of exit travel.

Okay. All right.

Good point.

We could change language in this process, absolutely. If you could, would you be able to send me an email on that just to specify?

My next item was 24. My only concern was when we talk about replacement of the fittings. The initial installation would be good, but how do we know a homeowner when they replace a fitting would replace it with the right fitting? They can get a fitting that doesn't allow that recirculation, right? So

you're talking about the 24 of the top 50, which is the concentric. Correct. Yeah. So that's a new thing. And as long as it's listed and labeled for that intended use, it is allowed to be used.

Because I've seen, just in my career, just multiple places where an intake is too close to an exhaust on rooftop units or whatever. And they do cross contaminate a little bit.

Well, and in these devices, I mean, the manufacturer's installation instructions are very, very specific. And everything has to be met. And those instructions are given to us before we go out there for an inspection so we can verify that it is. But they are odd looking, yeah. Yeah, you look at it and think, no way does this comply. But they're approved.

If someone's replacing them, can they replace one that is not built for that? Or is it very clearly labeled that this is a special fitting?

It would be in the manufacturer's installation instructions if it was allowed to replace standard two pipe system.

Let's see here. Oh, item 36. I think there's an error in item 36. It talks about island and peninsula

Yeah, so that one, I actually saw that earlier. This is an interesting one too because they no longer require electrical outlets on an island because of too many accidents. But they still require a conduit to it. But yes, the text about pulling potentially noxious air, yes, that's a miscreant.

That's the last one I had. Okay.

All right. Move on to my list here. So I went off the master list, Mark. Sorry. We didn't have coordination here.

The first one I had was on number 53. So you can go to number 53. And that was just a I think there's a wrong comment in column M. And it becomes pretty obvious. We're talking about precast concretes, then we're talking about mass timber. I think in the top 50, they have the right comment from line 14.

Sorry, a lot of copy pasting going on.

Yeah, a

lot of special inspections in the updated codes. Yeah.

Ready for the next one?

Yes.

All right. Line 80, where we talk about the allowing the 10 amp branch circuits.

Yes.

I went and did a little research on that. And there's a lot of ways to define branch circuit. So I think I get the intent. You don't want someone to put an outlet on when it's a lower capability

Yeah. Circuit. This is an odd one. I'm surprised the NEC is letting this one go. But it's such an odd one that I don't see contractors actually using this for a 10 amp circuit just for what a lighting and fan exhaust.

Yeah. So when you say 10 amp, mean, are you thinking that there's a 10 amp breaker down the box and you're going to run? Yeah, that me just seems really odd why would you

It seems like an opportunity for a homeowner to do something that they shouldn't do. Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw this. Get a lot

of nuisance tripping and a homeowner going in there and saying, you know, let me put a 15 or 20 in here.

Yeah. Yeah. I just worry that they put something on there that you Yeah. But the thing is they don't allow it for general purpose outlets. You know, it's only for lighting and fans. Right. So number one, I don't see the contractors using this very often because it is odd. Why would you go by 10 amp wire when you have a bunch of fifteen and twenty on the van? And second of all, it's just, it's an opportunity for a lot of callbacks. When I first saw this, I said, let's amend this out. This is crazy. And then the more I thought about it, I don't think it's going be an issue because I don't think the contractors are going to use it. I really don't.

Maybe we could get some feedback from contractors on that. Sure. Because I was thinking it would be a 10 amp circuit off of an existing circuit. No. No. And you wouldn't want that.

Is right in the panel, it looks like.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. I didn't get a chance to research this one, but down on line 96, it talks about splash pads. And it says splash pads should follow pool requirements. And it's about part two being permanently stalled. A splash pad doesn't have depth and whatnot. I was could this be too restrictive for a splash pad? Well, I think when they're talking about the requirements for

a splash pad, they're talking about the bonding that's required for commercial pools, which these splash pads are becoming more and more common. And there's just a gray area as far as what requirements you had to follow. And really, with these pools, bonding is the big thing, just keeping everything equally, the potential, the same. So you eliminate the shock hazards. And I think that this clears that up. So they say, all right, the splash pads follow pools.

It's the same thing. This is more on the electrical side then? It is, absolutely. That makes sense.

Yes.

All right.

And then the last one. Oh, it was line 133 where we talk about having two water service pipes going into a large building. I'm sure there's clarification on this, but if you need to shut off service to the building for some reason Yeah. How do you coordinate all this?

So I actually asked our water guy about this. He said that we already require two pipes. So it's we already have a redundant system. So it's a requirement through Naperville, the water department for these types of buildings to have a redundant system.

Have a redundant system. Yeah.

So we're already there.

All right. That was it for me.

Anybody else have any questions?

I had a couple of questions. But back on the 50 Okay. Top 50. Okay. What number? Well, the first was numbers five through eight. It just says that the fire department is going to review these. And I'm just wondering if they have any disagreement with those items or not.

So Ben, maybe you could back me up on this one, but a lot of the amendments that are not amendments, but significant changes with this regarding fire, we already have amendments to the fire code and to the IBC in our municipal code that pretty much trump all this. So a lot of this is irrelevant. But they were significant. But we've already adopted these.

Going to number 20. It's about the rating on garage doors and an increase in the wind load and various calculations necessary to do that, is the city obligated to verify the pounds per square foot on the sticker on the manufactured door? Or

What number you on?

That was number 20, I believe.

Okay. Yeah, this is one that some of the contractors are upset about. This is something that I'm hearing there's a lot of lead time on this one where these doors just aren't available yet. And yeah, don't know. I mean, this is something that we could amend out, but it was there just to cause issues with these garage doors blowing away in a wind event. This is not designed for a tornado. It's just a wind event. If it's something you want me to consider amending, we can do that.

More to the point is when I compared the 2018 code to the 2024 code, there are fairly hefty serious calculations done to determine which label, which to specify which pounds per square foot? And is that now going to be the responsibility of the design professionals to go through these garage doors and specify a pounds per square foot? Or is that something that the contractor is going to be responsible to do? Or does the city look to who do they look to see if it's supposed to be 26 or 32 pounds? Yeah.

I think we would rely on

the architect to if he stamped the drawings and said that that was appropriate, we would have to assume that he did the calculations appropriately. Okay.

I think they'd have that, like a door fixture schedule within the architectural plans. And then in that door fixture schedule, they would have the ratings of that garage door.

Yeah. Or a note of some sort saying that it meets the 24 code.

Great. Yeah, the 24 code is much better than twenty eighteen. So I think we should adopt it. I just was trying to figure out the liability issue there. Okay.

On number 28, This requirement was a little confusing to me regarding a draft hood having to be in a separate room. And I'm envisioning commercial kitchens and equipment, some of which is under the main hood, which has makeup air. There's no change in the pressures involved that would affect

other more remote elements. I think this is something to handle maybe a restaurant that doesn't necessarily have the calcs available to give the building code a little teeth to prevent that drafting issue. If there is proper makeup error and it is proven with calculations, I'm sure that there's exceptions to this one. Okay.

And then there was one about commercial number 22, I'm sorry, go back about the commercial appliances. And I have seen a whole lot of higher end housing that automatically specifies the biggest, best commercial kitchen and cooking equipment and so forth. And I'm not happy with the idea that an engineer stamping the plants cannot supersede this not allowed statement. Think people ought to be able to choose that equipment. If they have to pay to have an engineer stamp it as acceptable, then they ought to be able to select that

equipment. I guess I interpreted this as commercial, like a mushroom fan hanging off the side of someone's garage.

Guess The kitchen, range hood, those sorts of things as well.

But you're talking more of a super high end residentialcommercial kitchen. I think that there can be common sense exceptions to this. Like I said, I took this as someone who's got a catering business running out of their garage. That's what I'm imagining.

I see.

And I think that that's what they're trying to cut down on.

Okay. When does like, you talk about commercial like, I've seen, like, commercial kitchens or whatever, They have some kind of fire suppression systems built in them, too, right? So where does it in a residential I'm saying in a residential area, obviously, we don't have fire suppression. We were just talking about exhaust. But I'm not sure where that suppression system comes into play.

Well, a commercial kitchen would require suppression. And a commercial kitchen wouldn't be located in a residence as far as I'm concerned. And I think that's the dividing line is if someone has a commercial kitchen in their residence, then it's no longer a residence. It's a business. And that we would require commercial hood with suppression.

And I think the engineer reviewing it, if they had to have one, would do the same thing.

It would

require the ANSL system and whatever

else. Yeah. It sounds like a very unique situation that would have to be handled very, very specifically. Any other questions?

Just on number 43, the emergency electrical disconnect on the exterior of every unit and every building. That certainly is a great life safety issue. It's just I'm concerned about security. Somebody can come and turn

off all your power in

the middle of the night

Well, these disconnects are lockable. You can lock them in the on position. It kind of defeats the purpose, but they are lockable if that is a concern. So I mean, we we have disconnects on half of our, you know, electric services here in town anyway. So this this one, I I don't really mind. And it is a safety feature. And the fire department loves it too.

They'll just come with the bolt cutters and whatever and get get it through that anyway. Because it is for them.

I can't speak for them, but I'm sure they have bolt cutters and a sledgehammer and everything ready to go. Yeah. But it can be locked.

Actually, did see another requirement that did talk about some type of disconnect or something being secured. I can't remember where that was in the whole list. But they did talk about securing something so people just can't open it and do something.

Don't remember that one. But that's standard electrical code that you got to have your panel has to be locked. If it's open to the public, it's got to be keyed. And

that's all I have. Okay. Anybody else have any questions from the board? Okay. If not, Mark, do we need to open up to public testimony?

Well I was going to go through the staff recommendations

okay

and then kind of open it back up for the visitability conversation all right so so this one I think is pretty important this property maintenance code It's kind of an obscure code, but we use it for property maintenance. And now there is an exception that they put in there that basically says, if you have an inground swimming pool, if there's a power cover, you don't need a fence. So this same code exists in the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code. And we amended that language out years ago. I don't know how long.

So this is a mere image. And I want to make sure that we amend this so there's no confusion. Because I feel like it's a very important one.

I'll agree with that, Mark. I did look up this code and saw how you guys were taking out that exclusion for swimming pools.

And it's kind of odd, the language that they used, but it satisfies the code.

Yeah, I definitely agree with it. My only question was, do we allow above ground swimming pools at all?

Yes. So above ground swimming pools, it depends on the height of the wall. But sometimes the wall of it, if it's over 48 inches, that is the barrier, necessarily. But then you also have to have a lockable ladder. All kinds of requirements for pools. Gate swing. For in ground mostly, there's the fence and gate swing requirements.

So this is specific to in ground only?

Yes, this is specific to in ground.

Makes sense. Thank you.

Next one is oh, wait, did I miss one? Next one is the National Electric Code. I didn't see anything that I was interested in amending. Like you brought up about the 10 amp circuits, that's something that kind of came across my radar. And I think that it was really necessary, but I can propose some language for that. We already have some existing amendments to it that ban Romex. We've changed the tamper resistant requirements and arc fault requirements, but it seemed to us it's worked pretty well for us so far. We only require arc faults in bedrooms. It seems like it's been working just fine. We've done that for quite a while.

So I recommend that we just basically keep the NEC the same. Again, if you want to talk about that 10 amp circuit, we can talk further. The IRC, I'm going to save that one for last because that's going to have the visibility stuff in it. We'll talk about that later. The IBC, that's the big one.

There's a million changes in the IBC. A lot of them are I think a lot of them are just administrative. There was a lot of cleaning up of language, a lot of cleaning up of just confusing topics. And I appreciate that. One thing that I am interested in discussing further and Eric, I'm sure you're very familiar with this one is there's an exception for elevator requirements in buildings that are over four stories. It says if you have a sprinkler, it doesn't need to be an accessible means of egress. We ran across some issues where people are trying to get out of this.

And

it's understandable because it's a cost because you have to back up the elevators with a generator. That's the big one. And I would just like to bring it up for discussion to see what you guys think. Because I like the idea of having a truly accessible elevator for buildings over four stories. I think that's a great idea. But this exception eliminates that if there's a sprinkler system in the building.

Does this apply to multifamily?

Yes. Not single family? Multifamily, yes. This would be commercial multifamily.

And is it how about a two flat or a four flat? No. You know, like row homes?

No. No. There wouldn't be an elevator requirement. This is mainly, you know, basically five stories and larger. So the question is the cost of the backing up of that elevator with generator power. I mean, you're talking a couple $100,000. And that's a cost that we'd be putting on the builder. So it's something to think about. Like I said, we don't have to decide.

Have we had anybody request a variance?

Well,

don't need to request a variance right now.

Well, has anybody built one, I guess, is a better way to ask.

SPEAKER Yes. Yes. There's actually one being built as we speak. That is they're following the rules. They have an elevator. It's just not an accessible means of egress, which means that it doesn't have battery backup or doesn't have generator backup I should say. So they did use this exception, yes. And there was nothing we can do about it. But they still it's still safe. I'm not saying that it's not safe. It still meets all the requirements of the International Building Code. But this

elevator is not truly accessible. And there's no UPS that would be adequate to bring that down?

There wasn't one planned for that, yeah.

Because I'm just that $100,000 is a

large And there is an argument, is UPS technically considered a standby power for an elevator? A lot of people want to see a generator. So there's that argument too. But we don't have to decide this one tonight, but it's just something to ponder for next meeting and we can talk more. The International Plumbing Code.

So we use the Illinois Plumbing Code mostly. The International Plumbing Code we adopt because it talks about things that are not in the Illinois Plumbing Code such as subsurface drainage and relining of sewers. So we do have quite a few amendments that was in an attachment that I can show. There's just a lot of language that we want to add as far as the relining of sewers, mostly administrative stuff. It's really it's nothing life changing.

And then also we would like to get rid of the fixture section in the International Plumbing Code because Illinois has section. So it causes confusion for contractors, especially out of state contractors who don't know which book to go off of. So we would eliminate the required plumbing fixtures section from the IPC, the international, and then add that language for relining of sewers, which was, again, in the attachments. Let's see. Fire code.

So the main change with the fire code is that basically they're deleting a section. I guess they're deleting a section and replacing with all parking garages per NFPA ADAA shall be sprinkled. So that is increasing the requirements for sprinklers in parking garages. And you would have to back me up on that one. You'd have to give me some details on that one. I'm not 100% sure.

Okay. Here's the situation. In the new I believe it's the building code. They don't require sprinklers in certain parking garage situations. But in the NFPA code that governs how you build a parking garage, they require sprinklers in all parking garages.

So we got a conflict with the codes. And basically, it comes to codes, and I'm sure Mark can back me up on this, we always go for the more stringent one, which would be the NMPA code stating that all parking garages garages get sprinkled. So is it something I'm going to die in the hill for? No. But I thought it would be something that we should bring up, especially now that we have the electric charging going into these parking garages and LP cars going into these parking garages. I personally think, and of course, I always will go on the side of sprinklers. So that's the reason why this was brought up for a possible change.

So staff recommends adopting the 2024 IFC with the proposed amendments and existing amendments. Illinois State Plumbing Code, no changes. These are just our current amendments. Have a ban on plastic piping for water distribution. Okay.

Now we'll talk about the IRC. All right, so IRC, like I said, like we've been talking about, the ACTF has recommended adopting the four things: 1st Floor powder rooms, step free entrances, hallways to be 42 inches, and the powder rooms to be accessible to wheelchairs. Like I said before, we have already adopted and amended the IRC to include the blocking requirements on the 1st Floor and the widths of the doors. I feel that the hallways are already at 42 inches, but again it's not codified. The two main sticking points is going to be the accessible powder rooms and the step free entrances, which in my opinion, I think is burdensome on the builder.

I think that there are some engineering considerations that have to be taken into account as far as drainage, as far as just how do you drop grade? Do you modify the foundation to accept the rim joist? It's just there's a lot of considerations that have to be thought about before we accept this. And again, from an engineering standpoint and a cost standpoint, I feel that homes can be retrofitted relatively simply to accept a ramp in most cases, not all cases. I know that there's an option to put a ramp in a garage.

And that sounds great. It just it takes up a lot of room in a garage if you're going to do that because of the required slope. There was an option to bring that ramp around the side of the house. That could work. Again, we're going to run into grading issues, I think. And I think it's just a burden that I don't want to put on the builders. And that's my opinion. So I'm going to give it to anybody that wants to speak about this visibility to kind of rebut my claims as far as the engineering and the drainage. Do you guys have any questions for me as far as the visibility goes?

Mark, JOSEPH I have a question. So mean, Naperville is pretty well built out, right? I don't think we have any real green fields left.

We hear that all the time.

They just keep finding more. Anyways, so my thought on this is I like the idea, all values aside and stuff. I mean, when I say value, money value. I think it's a great idea. However, if I'm refurbishing my home, what would be a threshold to trigger that these requirements would happen?

So

do we have any thoughts on that?

Well, right now, the codes that we have in place only pertain to single family, new construction, new single family homes, So

if it's basically a total teardown?

If it's a total teardown, that's a new home. Right. Yeah. If it's more than 50%, it's a new home. Yeah. But if it's just a small remodel, small addition, no, we wouldn't have the authority to go and make you put a ramp in.

Okay. I'd just like to see that defined better just so people know.

Okay.

You know, there's doesn't become a gray area there.

Okay.

So in the powder room, was a comment made around about turning around. What is that diameter? Three feet or something, if I remember?

Would it be 32 inches or would it

be more

than Go

over 54 inches.

54. So would it a 32 inches wide by 54 inches kind of rectangle? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Which is not unreasonable. I mean, a typical powder room is usually 54 inches in-depth anyway. It's that 32 inches width that they would

be The asking. SPEAKER space between the tub and the sink that often gets constricted because they narrow that space. And to turn my chair, for example I'll come out here where everybody can Oh, see yeah. Hi. I'll come out where everyone can see my chair. I engineered my chair specifically so my feet are tucked in very tight. So I can sit in a 36 inches turning radius. Most people cannot, especially those who have an electric chair. They're much bulkier back to front with the battery on the back and the feet extending out forward. So turning those chairs takes a much wider turning radius. Can continue to speak? This is great. Okay. I love the questions. Thank you very much.

I did want to assure both the board and the builders that came before, visibility is only in new construction because the point is that from the initial build, is on a slab, it's $0 to do it. And for over a basement, speaking to the grading issues and stuff, these have been well documented on how to change the grading so that instead of mounting on top of the foundation, it intersects with the foundation at a lower level to reduce that level of grading of the ramp to get into the home. There is in your packet, if you look at the back page of your packet, where it says slide deck with information implementation. I did not have that when we spoke before. This is from the concrete change people who came up with visitability in the beginning.

It's 138 pages and includes very detailed instructions on how that is accomplishable. The other thing I wanted to talk about is on implementation and burden on builders. In Bolingbrook, the process from the ideation of visitability to the implementation of the code was about two years. And during this time, there was many discussions with the builders. We had talks about costs.

That was the most significant concern was the cost. And there was hold on. I just had a discussion this morning with the former mayor of Bolingbrook, who was the one who really championed the buy in. It was a citizen initiative. But he really took it on and understood that over the course of time, anybody could become disabled.

And then rehabbing a home is significantly expensive into the tens and even $100,000 So this seemed to make sense as far as not having to worry about that over the future for all of the residents. But they found you guys already have the blocking for the grab bars. That's not an expensive fix. It's pretty easy to do with scrap lumber. Doors, the wider doors, do cost a little bit more. But it's only a few doors on the 1st Floor. The 2nd Floors are not required to have these accommodations. Again, it's visitability and not accessibility. It makes it so your home can be visited by someone with a mobility disability. It's not ADA compliance or any of those things.

The entrance to the garage, through the garage, they found issues with fire codes sometimes. And so they most often chose to do a side entrance. It also allows for longer ramp access. So that eased the burden as far as trying to grade the front area. So the other thing they did to reduce the burden on the grade in order to make the ramps accessible was they grade the whole lawn up and they grade the driveway.

Because if you drive the car up, there's less space, less ramp for the person to go as well. So those were some of the issues that came out of that and the ways those were resolved. The other thing that they did, they worked with the builders. They talked to them about what the burdens were, what the needs were. Obviously, plans have been drawn.

There were builders who were already building communities. What do they do? After the code was passed, they had an entire year for people to come to compliance. There was that allowance made so that people could redraw plans or adjust the ways that they built out the next stage of their neighborhoods that they were building. So I hope that helps a little bit. And I'm happy to take any questions about anything as well.

Thank you.

Sure. Absolutely. Thank you.

Just a thought. It would seem to me that most homes being built today, which aren't like the existing homes, have 1st Floor masters.

And

I wonder if you could just require that a bathroom on the 1st Floor. One.

It doesn't have to be a full bathroom.

Well, but we've been using the term powder room.

And

I'm saying if the powder room were small, but the master could probably accommodate That might be acceptable.

That would fulfill the ask of the ACTF, just one accessible bed.

Is there anybody from the building community that wants to speak at all about this matter?

Christian with Auto Homes once again. Totally appreciate all the comments regarding visibility. In total support of grab bar backing as we've had for years As far as two ten openings, I believe that's been in place for fifteen years, as long as I can recall. We do work in Bolingbrook as well as Naperville. I think Bolingbrook has some attributes that they might be better set up to accommodate perhaps a grade change or perhaps an additional space in the garage where you can accommodate a ramp.

The work we do in Naperville, it's typically tear down. We're fighting for every square inch. And if you're telling me, a client of mine, that, hey, instead of a two car garage, you're going have a 2.8 car garage, or whatever it might be, 1.8 car garage, I think that's going to be a piece of feedback I'm going to hear repetitively, quite honestly. To take that valuable real estate for something that honestly, maybe they don't have value in and understand the visibility. But we build for consumers.

And they make their choices accordingly to what their needs are. But like I say, in Bolingbrook, I have been part of that case study. I have seen it in action. Built a home two homes last year. They have and these homes are talking about modifying the foundation. What you're talking about is like a reverse ledge where we can put that home straight on grade. That cost to us, you're probably looking about $5,000 to $7,500 for one home. On top of that, so if we don't have the reverse ledge, then you have the ramp. Those end up being made of concrete. I typically charge about $2,500 for those, just for just talking about the dollars and cents.

And they are typically 25 foot by four foot with a handrail on both sides. So they do take up quite a bit of space there, just to give you background on that. And I think that's it.

Ed Meisio, the Red Star Construction. Just to add to what Christian said, I think Jeff Gross, you had mentioned clarity in new construction versus remodeling. And this, I think, would help because we've run into this in Bolingbrook with the remodeling and going back and forth on, we're not new construction. We can't do everything that and it goes to plan review. And a lot of times, once things are in the book, they're in the book.

And some new plan reviewers or whoever it might be might not understand. And in this day and age where everything goes through a portal and you can't talk to a human anymore, there's no conversation. It's just fail, resubmit, fail, resubmit. So I would like to see some clarification definition that, whatever we're going to do for visibility is for new construction only, not remodeling. And I will also back Christian on what he was saying about some of

Can I

ask a question? Yeah.

So sorry. Or we can talk after. I'm very interested. I'd be happy to advocate with the village about that. Having them bring issue with remodel versus new home.

Yeah, I think I wouldn't want to go back now. But if that case and having your information JOSHUA For future. Yeah, for future, I think having somebody that had been part of that and explaining that versus the builder just saying, I don't want to do that for this reason would be beneficial to the builder too because so yeah

All right. That's all that I have. Again, I'm not looking for any recommendations at this time. Just for next month, I just ask that you kind of try to digest this. Send me whatever comments you have, questions. I know I didn't answer some of those questions very well because there's a lot in there. But I'd be happy to answer whatever I can. We're going to be talking about energy codes. There's a lot of information to take in next month. Again, that's all I got.

Thank you. The next item is board and commission member training PowerPoint.

Do you have to close the meeting or

is this final thing? It's part of the meeting according to the agenda.

All right.

Ben, you don't have to stick around for this. Okay, guys. Let's get through this here. All right. So this is twenty twenty five Naperville Board and Commission member training. So we're going be talking about the importance of boards and commissions in Naperville, Board and Commission member responsibilities, meeting rules, and participation, specifically OMA. The importance of boards and commissions in Naperville. Overview, Naperville is an active community that strongly relies on community spirit to fill over 150 volunteer positions on almost 20 boards and commissions. That's incredible. Like, I didn't know that until I read that.

That is incredible. Boards and commissions are an integral part of citizen participation in local government and an important asset to the city of Naperville for proper growth and development and the long term stability of the city. I will send you this so you can read all of this at your leisure. Importance of boards and commissions. They're the voice of the community for policy development and decision making, provide unique experiences and in-depth analysis of topics, leverage unique backgrounds and expertise in the community, a channel between residents and elected officials, assist staff and elected officials in providing a different perspective, and increase consistency in community planning and discussions.

And if there's any questions, feel free to stop me at any time. Member responsibilities. Members are expected to arrive on time, be prepared for, and actively participate in all meetings. Board and commission members must attend at least 75% of all meetings. Less than 75% attendance may result in removal. And excused absence is defined as a personal family illness death in the family maternity paternity leave or a family emergency attendance is regularly reviewed for all boards if a board or commission member has an outstanding circumstance please reach out

to

me Terms and term limits. Terms for all boards are three years unless otherwise noted. Members are limited to two consecutive terms on board. Members are eligible to serve on another board. Terms expire on May 30 and members can serve up to a hundred eighty days beyond the end of their term while new appointments new appointments are completed if a vacancy occurs the member appointed to fill the vacancy will serve for the unexpired term Liquor Commission does not apply.

Reappointments. At the end of the first term, the staff liaison will review the members' attendance and participation. If the board commission members is below 75% attendance for the previous eighteen months they will not be recommended for reappointment. Boards and commission members will be asked if they're interested in serving an additional term. Reappointment recommendations are subject to approval by the mayor and city council.

Ethics and code of conduct. As a public official, you are subject to various laws, rules, and policy, including those in the Naperville Municipal Code and the State Officials and Employee Ethics Act, which applies to both elected officials and city employees. These laws are intended to ensure the functions of local government are conducted with fairness, honesty, and integrity. To act ethically, you must use city resources in the most productive and efficient way possible and only for the work of local government. Avoid placing your personal or financial interests in conflict with those of the city.

Ethics, oath and municipal code, official misconduct, class four misdemeanor and felony, intentional or reckless we fail to perform any mandatory duty as required by law, knowingly performing an act which they know are forbidden by law to perform, perform an act in excess of their lawful authority with intent to obtain personal advantage for themselves or another or solicit or normally accept a free reward for the performance of any act which they know is not authorized by law. Gift bans. Regulates gifts. Gifts from prohibited source. Gift has monetary value, tangible and intangible.

Source does business with the city, includes spouses and household, $75 for food and refreshment daily, $100 gift per source per year. Promptly return or give gift or equal amount to charity. If there are any questions, please contact the city attorney. Conflict of interest. Commissioners are prohibited from being financially interested in any contract.

The commissioner may be called upon to vote. Commissioner commissioners are in a fiduciary position requiring faithful performance of duties and are prohibited from using authority to advance individual interests, may recuse to avoid the appearance of impropriety, written disclosure filed with the city liaison before meeting. Leave the meeting and don't vote. Oh, shoot. How do I go back?

Here we go. Please read this at your leisure. Transparency. Good governance requires a high degree of transparency and accountability in all public operations and processes. The city strives to promote transparency in all operations by providing as much data through our website.

All board and commission members are to adhere to the Open Meetings Act, adhere to the state of Illinois Freedom of Information Act, ensure concise and accurate minutes, disclose potential conflicts or matters under consideration, improving meeting transparency and engagement. Meeting locations are going to be here. Designated seating for board members, staff, and public, nameplates, consistent public forum rules, consistent agendas, annual reports highlighting accomplishments and challenges, audio or video recording of all Boarding Commission meetings. FOIA, ensure to public government records, paper and electronic, text, email, direct message, etcetera, subject to FOIA if it is related to the city. Personal versus city email account is irrelevant.

So that means your personal account can be FOIA ed if it's tied to city business. Personal versus city devices, irrelevant. So your city vices and your personal devices, if they are tied together, they can be FOIA ed. Includes communications during meetings, exceptions, privacy, security, drafts, proprietary trade info, legal advice, etcetera. Rules and or Open Meetings Act.

Public meeting required. Any gathering of majority of a quorum discussing public business. Topic within the scope of board or commission, even at purely social gatherings, cannot discuss city businesses with a majority of a quorum. Electronic communication, email, text, social media, contemporaneous, interactive. Public view, before the meeting, forty eight hour publication notice of the agenda. At the meeting, public access and forum. After the meeting, approval and posting of minutes. The majority of a public body is required to do business. If a quorum is not available, the meeting will be canceled. So this is a good table.

I like this. So we have nine members. We need five members for a quorum. And a majority of a quorum is three. So know that if you're in a group of three and you're talking business, you are violating the OMA. So just keep that in mind. That's why I'm always so paranoid about I don't want to break that rule. Remote participation only permitted in cases of personal illness or disability, employment purposes, family or other emergency, unexpected child care. The bottom although allowed by municipal code, participation is not encouraged and should be viewed as an exception. Public participation Naperville encourages its citizens to participate.

Public participation rules, sign up sheet, procedures, motions, and voting. The chairperson recognizes board members by name before speaking. A city staff member with knowledge of the subject matter may be asked for an opinion or to provide further information. Member makes a motion. Motion is seconded. Debate can occur prior to a motion being made or after a motion is seconded. Floor open for debate by members. Chairperson typically calls for a vote. Chairperson's role. One year term and appointed by the mayor, leads, manages the meeting, sets the tone, ensures proper procedure, acts as staff contact, welcomes and includes student representatives, ensures compliance with OMA.

Governing rules. Thank you. It wasn't so bad.

Very good, Mark. All right.

Well, we end, I just want to state that, again, next month, if everything works out, if we get a quorum and everything, there's going be a lot to talk about. The energy code, there's a lot of information there. But I'll be sending you guys a lot of stuff the next month, okay?

And Mark, that's the seventeenth?

It is the third Wednesday in September. Is that seventeenth? It is the seventeenth. Okay, yeah. 02:00 that Wednesday. And again, these times are negotiable. So if I get no one if no one could be here, then I can move these times around. But I'd really like to keep them consistently when the third Wednesday at 02:00.

All right, so there's no old business today. Any new business that anybody wants to bring up? No. No? Listen. All right. I'd recommend or entertain a motion to adjourn.

So moved. I'll second. Second.

All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? All right, meeting is adjourned. Thank you everyone.

Thank you. Yep. Thanks, Denise.