Planning Board - Regular Meeting

starting bill. We call that the school bell. Good morning everyone. Uh and welcome to the planning board meeting for December the 16th down of Nagsad. And I al also want to introduce two new faces to the planning board. Mrs. Beverly Head here on my right and Valerie Net on my left here. So, welcome to everybody. And we're all relatively new here except for Dave, Dave, and me. But anyhow, glad to have everybody here. And uh the first thing that I would like to do would be have the approval of the agenda for today.

Can I make a motion? We have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a second. All in favor? I. Anybody oppose? Say nay. Agenda carries.

All right. We move on to public comment. Um, one thing I will confess right up front, a little off the record, is that I'm hard of hearing. And because of that, it is really important that you speak a little louder and into the microphone so that um I can hear what everybody's saying. Otherwise, I'll make you repeat it. Anyhow, thank you. Uh, public comment, does anybody have anything that they would like to share today? Seeing nobody going to make a comment, then we will move on to the approval of the minutes. I make a motion to approve the minutes as submitted.

As submitted. Do we have a second? Second. Are there any corrections or anything that need to be made? Okay. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Nay. Okay. The minutes carried. Thank you. All right. action items. Uh, Kelly, thank you for Absolutely. We'll jump right in. Can you hear me? I can. Okay, perfect. I know Robera likes it when I talk into the microphone as well.

Okay, so the first item that we have this morning, we actually have two sketch plans today. Uh but the first sketch plan that we're going to be talking about is a uh sketch plan review for TWWs. And um what I like to do is put the plan up on the projector as I kind of walk through the staff report. Um I assume everybody's had a chance to glance through the staff report. So um I'll try to not be verbatim but uh hit the high spots. So like I mentioned um This is a sketch plan review. It was submitted by Albamarl and Associates on behalf of Coastal Bluewater Capital LLC um TWW which is TWW's bait and tackle. Um the modifications would include um conversion of the recently approved um storage area which I'll use my cursor to show that. Well, I guess first let me everyone. Um, this is 158 on this side of your screen. Um, this is Satderfield Landing. So, this structure is the existing TWW's retail and this structure is the existing TWW's storage. Recently, um, two months ago, the planning board heard a request to construct um this structure in between the storage and the principal um to use that for storage purposes. Now with this iteration of the plan, they're proposing to convert that to

retail. So that's going to be the first element um being requested. The second is construction of a new 6,750 square foot detached building divided into two units which is this structure here. Um, unit one, which is going to be this one, um, the the westernmost unit, is proposed to consist of 2,500 square ft of retail space and 1,000 square ft of accessory storage. Unit two is proposed to consist of 3,250 square feet of storage only. So, there's no retail component associated with this building. Um, I don't know this, and this is maybe something that the uh engineer can discuss when he gets up here, but my guess is this building is retail. This building will become retail. You see this um connection here between these two storage buildings. These two buildings will function as storage for the primary principal retail over here. Um we already mentioned this, but we do have a 12 by 20 um connection between these two storage areas. Um it's just a covered walkway. It's not enclosed. And then we have construction of a new 30,000 square foot detached building consisting of 2,000 square feet of retail and 1,000 square ft of accessory

storage. Um something like this where you've got multiple buildings on one property and I will say it is one property. The last time we looked at this, this was two lots. And there was a requirement that before moving forward, they combine the two lots so that it's one lot. Um, and they have sent that survey through. I've signed off on that. That's been taken over to the register of deeds. So, um, I don't think it shows as one property yet in GIS. Um, but we have done the the background work to make that happen. So, uh, with this type of development with multiple buildings on one property, that's going to be considered a group development. That's a classification of use in the UDO. Um, and there's a definition for group development. Um and it is a group of buildings on a single site which are occupied and used for professional offices, retail, personal services, indoor recreation and restaurant. So on this we have multiple buildings used for retail and the storage that they're showing will have to be accessory to that retail. So I made a note in here. You can't just have standalone storage. That's more of a a warehouse use. That has to be in a different district. So for this district, that accessory use has to be um or that accessory storage rather has to be accessory to the principal. So I outlined that in your staff report. Um and I'm sure moving forward uh as this goes to formal review, there'll be more information about that, but for the sketch plan phase, this was adequate. um what's been presented.

So um I did want to note I've mentioned that this is just a sketch plan and the whole idea of a sketch plan is to get this before you early um before a developer spends a lot of time, energy, money developing a project that we might look at it and see some some fatal flaw. So in both of these situations, the projects are probably well beyond what we would imagine for a sketch plan. Um they've already had architects and engineers involved, but um it is very early. So the level of information that we would ask to see at the formal review is not the same now. Um, and the whole idea of this is just for uh you to get a chance to look at it, review it, for staff to be able to lay eyes on it, and see if there's any um fatal flaws, red flags, things that are are concerning. Um, and so each department at town hall has had a chance to go through this and highlight. I will say from the planning perspective, um, we tried to be relatively comprehensive, but it may not be entirely comprehensive. Um, but we did note that the use is permitted. They're in an X flood zone, but they do have to meet our local elevation standard of nine. Um, so that will need to be shown on here. I'm sure they do. Um, I think the grade is is relatively high to begin with out there. Um, maximum lot coverage in the C2 is 55% and all total they're coming in at 53.4. So, lot coverage is compliant. Um, building height, it's got a maximum height of 35 ft. Um, and we do have some architectural elevations. Uh we had some um previous elevations that were submitted and I'm not sure about the new ones, but

when you lay a scale on it um it's right at 35. So we just want to make sure that moving forward um you know it's it's it's maxing out. So we want to make sure that um it does stay at that maximum 35. Um the location of mechanical equipment moving forward um if there is any. We do want to see that on the site plan. We need to make sure that that meets setbacks um as well. Um I went through your staff report about the types of buffering that's required. We do require landscape buffering where any parking area adjoins a street rideway. So, um, for here there there will be a a buffering requirement in this area where the parking lot is adjacent to Satderfield Landing. Um, if any of the vegetation that's on the um uh on the existing developed lot, if any of that's disturbed, if any of those buffer areas are disturbed, that will have to be replenished as well. Um, because we do have some residential uses back here. um on the south side of the proposed structure, they will have to provide a 25- foot um commercial transitional protective yard here. And they've um they've allocated for that on their site plan. But when you see this again, we'll need to see that um they've at least got those three rows of plantings or they've allocated for those three rows of plantings um as it's required by the code. Um there's a section that talks about uh buildings that are adjacent to a street where you've got um crawl space, stem wall, lattice work, any type of parking. Need to have some landscaping in there just to visually and aesthetically um spruce that up. Um interior parking lot landscaping that's going to be required as well.

It's not been shown at this phase. Again, it doesn't have to be, but you can already see there's ample um area for them to incorporate some vegetation so that they can meet that requirement as well. Um and then lastly, uh one thing to note is for any commercial project, you have a preservation and landscaping standard that must be met. And coming in at sketch plan, if you haven't already um done land disturbance, you have a great opportunity to preserve 10% of the existing mature vegetation on site. Um if you don't do that, then you have to replant 15% of the lot area in vegetation. Um this particular lot, I think, um there's I think it's already been cleared. I think some land disturbance has already occurred here. So there's probably not an option for preservation. So we're going to be looking at um fresh landscaping. So that's going to be part of your planning board submitt as well is to see where this 15% of landscaping will be included on the site. Um as far as parking goes, um you can see they've got uh this proposed new parking here. Um but as this will now be one site, it will all be integrated. So there will be some shared parking um just as there will be some shared storm water infrastructure. Um I did note that um your the site plan that you received referenced a reduction for bicycle racks um being at four. They have a reduction of three. So, we do need to tweak either the parking or the building to make sure that those numbers are accurate. Um, but it's good that you

know that it's shown here. We saw it at sketch plan. Um, the engineers aware of that and feels confident that when this comes back for your formal review that parking will all um will all wash out compliantly. Um, what else do we have? 20% of the surface area of the parking spaces shall be in permeable materials. And um it looks like they have most of the new parking in a permeable material. So that's being met. Um when they get there, we'll need a lighting plan um that meets our town codes. Um and then we put some information on signage in here as well, just for their awareness. Um because we don't yet know what this retail space is going to be. Is it if it's a continuation of TWWs, if it's a new business, are they going to want signage? We just want them to be aware that we do have sign regulations. Um, the amount of signage you can have facing 158 versus the amount of signage you can have facing a two-lane road such as Satderfield Landing. So, um, again, we're not at that phase, but we did include that just for awareness. Um the next section relates to architectural design standards. Um let me pull this up on the screen to make it a little bit smaller. Um so for architectural design um I will say that the existing principal structure that was constructed um prior to our current architectural regulations those the set of regulations that were

in place when the existing TWWs was built required that they um incorporate elements that would achieve 100 design points and we have a residential architectural design manual and it's a list of desired elements and there's a point system associated with each element and so TWWs was first constructed that is what they used. So when um when the planning board and the board of commissioners approved the storage addition there in the middle um we required that they maintain that 100 points that they not do anything to make them non-conforming um with their original approval and they did that. But these two new structures they're going to have to comply with today's architectural design standards and they really have two paths to meet that. and that is achieving 150 design points. Whereas in the beginning they only had 100, now they would have 150. Or they can go through all of the standards um that's listed in division two of our building design code um under our commercial design standards. Um, and for the new members, I just I'm realizing now I probably should have sent you a link to that. So, I apologize. But, um, what it it appears that that's the angle that they're going for is to comply with that section of the of the UDO, the division 2 requirements. Um, you can see that they've got some roof articulations here um that would speak to that. They're showing um residential style windows. Um they have a porch roof or a a same as

previous that um intent for a covered porch look. Um it looks like they have u maybe some rafter tails uh gable brackets incorporated where they can. So um it's not required that we have 100% compliance at this phase, but it is clear to see that they're aware of the architectural design and they're working towards incorporating enough of those elements to meet the standards. And I believe for zoning purposes, that's um all we had for our review and planning. So, our building inspector, I'm sure a lot of you are aware of this. Um, if you know Steve, there's not a lot that Steve can give you at this phase. Steve is going to wait until you submit your full set of plans, your full set of building plans, your engineer trades, public, um, plumbing, um, electric, mechanical, and then that's where Steve will have his feedback. Um, the town engineer has provided some comments as well. He's going to want to see a vehicle pathing exhibit to show that emergency vehicles can make it through um the site, a loading birth that's compliant with section 1017 of the UDO. Um we have a note here about storm water management and providing uh calculations to make sure that you're meeting um their required 4.3 inch um rainfall event. a uh division of environmental quality uh DM demr storm water management permit will be required. Um he speaks to the types of culverts that are going to be necessary here along Centerville Landing Road uh for your your two new driveway cuts right here. Um and then we'll need a sediment and erosion plan um

to be compliant with that. So, for public services, they've noted that the proposed location of the dumpster is compliant um with uh their front load vehicles. So, there's no issues there. Um at this time, the fire department has just stated that they'll need to um have their fire lane markings shown on their drive aisle with appropriate signage and police had no concerns with the review at this time. Um, so as far as sketch plan goes, this is this is pretty thorough. This is a pretty complete design. Um, but it's great that we had a chance to look at it now and get it in front of this board so that um the applicant uh and their architect and engineer can can see the comments that we've come up with thus far and hear any feedback or concerns from the planning board. So that's what I have. We have um John Deluchia with Albam Marl and Associates and Mark Casten um from the architectural firm uh Kahuna Casten. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have for me

um on on this site plan. I I don't see it um here. The 12 by something uh walkthrough cupboard area between the spaces is it is it on the architectural um sites or drawings as they are. So, no, this connection isn't shown on any of the architectural elevations. Kelly, the uh the structure that we approved a month or two ago, that went to the board of commissioners, right? It did. And they approved it? They did.

Okay. this type of project if it gets to the board of commissioners does it require a public hearing? Um, so this will because this is a group development and group development is considered to be a special use. So what will happen now is um the team working on this project will take staff's comments, your comments, they'll go back um produce revised drawings which will go to what we call TRC. is the technical review committee. Yeah.

And that's the internal meeting of staff before it comes back to you. Um so we'll have TRC, we'll bring it back to you. Then we'll go to the board of commissioners and ask for them to schedule the public hearing for the following month. Between that lapse of time, staff will need to notify the adjacent property owners, put some signage out there, run some ads in the local newspaper to make sure that everybody's aware of what's happening. Okay. Thanks. Yep. You're welcome.

Just to clarify, this new portion of this development, that's the vacant lot on Satderfield Landing behind the current TWWs, correct? Okay. Yes. I apologize. I should have um an aerial or something like that in your packet would have been. Yes. As as along with that there has been in in the recent past with that property that has now been recombined. There was a zoning at first there was a zoning amendment um on that property. Um and there was a prior plan on that property before the zoning amendment. Um then the zoning amendment then it became folded into this. So there's been a there's history

there's there's quite a history in in not that long a period of time. I believe this is in this is less than one year um that the progression has diverted into this path. Is that correct? It is um the first thing that we had occur on this property was a site plan a special use approval for a trade center. I'm not sure if that was 22 or 23. Um but yes, we went through the trade center approval. Um and and then now this and there was and there was a public hearing with the zoning on this as well.

There was so this um the second property that you see here. So it's uh really the line used to run sort of right here. Um, this lot used to be C3 commercial services and they requested a reszoning to make that C2 general commercial. Um, and that was recent and that went through the same process of of signage, notifying adjacent property owners, putting it in the paper. And I have one more question for you and that is um the question of since this is all going to be combined in one property as it is now the parking for the storage is kind of undefined and um as you look at it now what are the restrictions that are that are exposed by that? So, it's a good point. When your storage is accessory to your retail use,

there is no parking standard associated with that because your retail is parked. And um I guess the easiest thing to to liken it to is say like a grocery store, food line. You've got your retail in the front and your storage in the back. Um the difference with this is that they're separated. So they're they're two buildings now. You've got your principal and your storage. Um so the retail aspects are parked adequately. The storage does not have a parking standard because it is presumed in a compliant fashion that that storage is just helping and facilitating the retail. It's not its own standalone use. Um If we were to feel like the storage was operating as its own standalone use and was not subordinate to that principle or was not for the um convenience of the principal, then we would have to look into um into that more and ensure that we're compliant with their approvals. But so there is no parking standard for storage as it's shown on this plan.

And I lied. I do have one more question. Signage. Yes. The signage on this as it exists is on the very eastward building that exists.

Um if this were to carry on as it is, would there be more signage permitted on this? And um how would that carry forward because this is all one facility? So, um, each site is allowed a certain amount of signage. So, now this is one site and one site um typically can only have one sign. It's freestanding, but because this is a corner lot, there will be an aotment for a sign on the side of Satderfield Landing. So, the sign adjacent to 158 has a maximum area of 64 square feet, and I imagine that's been maximized. Um, the signage that could potentially be allowed along Satderfield will be limited to 32 square feet in terms of freestanding. And then, um, wall signage is going to be based on a percentage of the wall area that the sign faces on. So wall signage can't exceed 20% of the wall area where the sign's being affixed. So that's going to be a case byase basis as these things get developed when they come in seeking wall signage. Um they're going to have to show what what the area of that wall is and and the calculations.

I have a question. Um so is there any way that a pedestrian can get from the front to the back. Is there a walk space or a sidewalk or anything? Are people just gonna cut through the vegetation or is it just not shown on here?

So, I think that's probably an ongoing situation. There's nothing shown um on this plan. When speaking with the applicant, Chris Greening, he did verbally say that he would like to provide a method for people to get from point A to point B. Um, and speaking internally, um, you know, if the town were to do something, it would be located in the ride of way.

So, the de the developer could only do something on on his property, but the town could do something in the right of way. Um, I don't want to speak out of line. I do know that a sidewalk project is in our long range CIP projects, but I I to be honest, I don't know that that's something coming up very soon on the same timeline as this. Um, but that's been an internal discussion and I do think there is an interest to provide connectivity.

So, Would there be any interest, and this may just be my own personal feeling, but having two less entry and exits and connecting the parking lots and then just to have less in and out on the main road? Is is there just up to the applicant or

It is it it will be up to the applicant. what they have shown is compliant and I think there's a um a method to where these are shown in that this would operate as sort of a loading area for um supplies for product to come in. But um John Deluchia can can speak to that. I don't know if you're ready for for them or if there's any more questions up here. Anybody have any more questions for Kelly? No. On this? Thank you, Kelly. Thank you.

Would the applicant like to speak? Mr. Luke, how are you? I'm good. Good. Good. My wife tells me I can only wear this sweatshirt in dece or this sweater in December. you get to see my Christmas sweater. Um, thank you for allowing us to bring this in front of you. Um, let me answer a couple of questions. Kelly, where's this point? Could you introduce yourself for everybody? I'm John Deluchia from Alba Marlin Associates. Thank you.

Um, a couple of things. Yes, we came to you last month and got this building, this connecting building approved um as storage because we were working on this plan at the time. Um that building will be converted to retail. Um the reason that we had done that is so that they could get the building started, get the foundation started, um get the shell up before we got into spring season. Um the plan is for this um part of the development is we'll probably put the parking lots in for next year and then we'll hold off a little while before we start building the other buildings. Um couple of things that I want to go over here. This um this building right here will become retail. Um we will no longer have the loading zone shown in that like we did last time. Um, and we don't have to mess around with this existing turnstone parking that we have here. Um, this building right here will remain storage for TWWs. This unit here will remain storage for TWWs and the loading zone will we have a garage door shown, overhead door shown right here. So, this will become the loading zone so they can pull in the interconnection between the two. Um, we will have to put a new garage overhead door in the existing building. The proposed building does have a door there right now so that they could use a lift or some type of mechanical equipment to load and unload. Um Kelly reminded me that we can't have four bicycle racks. Um we had three of them are approved right now for three spaces. Um we think we think that that western most building will be an art gallery. That's what it had been planned to. I showed it as being retail because the retail parking is more stringent than than a um art

gallery. But if it becomes an art gallery, then the standard is one for 350 rather than one for 250 for parking. And we'd have more parking than we needed. Um if that doesn't become an art gallery for some reason, we could always make the the storage in that building 250 square ft more and 250 ft less of retail. and we're compliant with parking. Again, um we don't think that's going to be the case. Um Brad, there was talk about um maybe actually asking the town to allow us to put some sidewalk out on Satderfield Landing. Chris and I have talked about that. Um the storm water pond that's in the middle of the site right now is state approved. It's got a lot of different pipes and plumbing and and underground um conveyance systems that is going there. It'd be very difficult to relocate that. Um so we're going to leave it there. Plus, we have all of those nice um Leland Cypress trees that were planted along that building that won't be touched.

None of the existing landscaping on the site is proposed to be disturbed um really in any way. Um and yes, we we will be showing some more buffering and some more landscaping. We're planning to submit this plan to staff on Thursday of this week. So, this plan has been has been developed much further than what you're seeing right now. That's really about all I have to tell you. Mr. Lucia, I have a question for you. At one time, there was some discussion about on-site workforce housing or um in the site. Is that they would love to do employer housing, but we don't have enough parking or sewage capacity. Um, you know, the the existing building or the existing expansion that we had planned right here is going to go into the existing septic system which the tanks are located in this vicinity and the drain fields are out here. Um, the new buildings, the tanks will be over in this vicinity. Let's see. How do I do this?

Um, the septic system for this this retail use and this retail use, it's pretty low. It's like 400 gallons or 450 gallons a day will be placed up along this area of the building and down along this side here for the repair. And we're working with the health department on that right now. Okay. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Deluchia? Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. I hope you all have America. Just actually I do. Um where is um the the dumpster going to be on dumpster is going to be relocated to being right there. Okay.

Okay. So, there'll be a front end. I got it out. Okay. should be actually it'll be easier than the site plan that's already approved and that'll be shared for for all of it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

Comments. Wow. There's a lot going on in this. Um, I have concerns about parking. I've got it it it's interesting to me that a that a facility of this size with this amount of storage, you know, how that I online sales is a question. um how that's going to function and the parking um standards for the storage space. This is 14,000 square feet in total. Um it's it's just a it's a it's a this is quite a lot and the progression of this is is is is a lot as well. I in my time on the planning board, I don't know that I've ever seen a summary that mentioned as many things um that were not really clarified on how they were going to be resolved um in in the end. um as well. There are I and this is something that came up the last time this came in front of the this group. Uh with the existing addition that was brought and approved. Um the exist our existing signage policy I think was accurate for when it was written but is no longer accurate. There backlit signs count for a certain amount. Um front lit signs count for a different amount. The reality is that uh the technology for signage has changed

because the lighting st light lighting possibilities and standards that are that are in the market now have changed. Um when you go by this site as it exists today there a lot of signage um on on the building and much of that signage is lit in in the variety of methods and those methods satisfy one need which is signage but they diverge from what the understanding of a of our policy is for signage as I see it and that's a concern. concern. Um parking is a concern. Um connectivity of the buildings um where there is an overarching retail mode where storage is subservient to that and the workflow as I see it on the site is moving in every direction which is going to be just it's it's a little bit unclear how the work product and the um merchant plan interacts with the patrons use of the site and it it it it kind it just creates a lot of questions in my mind that aren't satisfied by what I see here to see how it is going to work other than as a as a very very large retail space to respond David to you and to something that John said you're right far along on the final plans or what you hope to be the final plans and you've done this so that all the various departments in the town can have their say

and I think a lot of those questions that you probably have are will be addressed yes with that final plan and um that you didn't want to invest this much time and effort into this without making certain that all of those concerns would be addressed when and compliant with the with the zon

and compliant absolutely uh it is a large project um I will say that um TWW's is as it exists today does a great job of maintaining their facilities and the grounds and everything else. There's not clutter. There's not weeds and things growing. It looks good. Uh and so I would be confident that all of the property would be maintained the same way. Um but yeah, it it's a big project. It really is. and and remember that years ago, well, not years ago, but in the ordinance, it says that we don't have outdoor storage in containers and trailers and things like that. A lot of our retail businesses here take advantage of that in summertime because they need more storage space. So, you know, building the storage space for the users is an important element so that we don't see trailers and playing the games. We've got it's a licensed trailer so we can keep it on site. Well, we know when it's on site for

I have a question, John. Is there access internally between unit two and unit one? There wasn't planned to be is that that's the middle building there, right? Yeah. The the plan was to have two rental spaces for other businesses to be in there. So TWWs would still be the anchor out front. The new building that you approved or the commissioners approved last month um will be more retail space for them both on on two levels like they are now.

Um their existing storage building is maxed out, so they need more storage, especially since they're adding retail. Um, and then the other two units, that one there and that one there, we're just planning for some storage space in each of them for for the retail out for the whoever leases out that space. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?

Just one comment. Me, this is the first sketch plan I've seen as a member of this board. So to me, this looks like a a roadmap to the applicant of what they're going to have to work on in their final product to to take the next step. So where we are now in in this whole project, I think it's it's it's appropriate. You know, I don't any any questions that that David has that aren't or aren't in other questions that are listed here in this sketch plan review by the staff. That's what needs to be answered, right? So I I think we're on the right path here is what I'm saying.

I I I do have one other question. And this is for Kelly. Um, how many other do we have any anything other like this in the town other than this on one site as you know retail storage. So, as a group development, the other group development that we have in town is South Beach Plaza where you've got Duncan, Single Finan, Yoga. So, that's another group development that we have. Um, I'm not sure that that answers your question. I guess another scenario where you've got retail and storage. Um I think these are connected but the ABC store has almost equivalent retail and storage

which when you do the numbers on this this would as well. Okay. And and is the the scale is that similar as well as far as square footage this half and half. I mean I I don't know. I South Beach Plaza is more buildings, more structures. I would imagine South Beach Plaza has a larger land area as well. And and that's kind of that's the other, you know, South Beach Plaza also seems to have less lot coverage, more in parking.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's spelled out in here, but a lot of things are maximized on this design. You know, lot coverage is to within 2%. Um, so I wouldn't say that that's it's not ideal, but it's not uncommon either.

I think it's a good use of space. The the only thing that uh that I think that needs improving is just having a pedestrian right away to get from like you would want them to be a little more connected so you could take advantage of the traffic going from one place to the other and people would have to get in their car and drive just in one parking lot out the other. Yeah. You know, like I said, walk on the road.

Internally, we've acknowledged that and it sounds like also um the engineer and the um property owner have acknowledged that as well. So I would like to think that as this progresses we have a path forward to provide some sidewalk here as as I see it there's the parking issue and lot coverage versus parking and and access um between them creates a little bit of tension for space. So the the good thing about this is it is just sketch plan and this is absolutely the purpose. There's not supposed to be answers to everything.

So we're we're at a good good place with these concerns that we share are those that they can work on further moving past the sketch plan. Yeah, this is and and as well I believe when we saw this last time this was alluded to that there was something else coming, but it wasn't clear what it was, right?

Um, so, you know, I I don't think anybody any of us is surprised to be seeing something. Um, I just wasn't I I I this is this is it's a lot. Yeah. And just one last comment, u architecturally speaking, I think, uh, great care has been given to the aesthetics of the project and it I think it looks it will ultimately look good.

I agree with that. I think they've already taken steps towards making it meet all of the um you know the standard the architectural standards which is impressive that they you know have included all that at this particular level. Any more comments? I need a motion to move this forward. So we don't need any action we don't need acknowledgement that they understand the the path and um and that we'll they'll bring it back when they're ready.

So and as I remember it the the role of it because we haven't had a sketch plan in a while is just basically transparency so that all understand the common goals of the sides and we've defined what can be defined as it is correct. So, we move forward. We can move on if everybody's done. Thank you, John. Happy holidays. Thank you.

Okay. Um, next we have Kelly back talking about the Tar Hill Motel. So bear with me for just a second while I pull the site plan up for Tar Hill. Okay, thank you. Um, so again, we have another sketch plan this morning. Um, this one is being submitted by Michael Robinson, um, engineer on behalf of Tarhill Motel, OBX LLC. And the project scope here is for construction of a twostory 26 unit hotel with parking below um, and all the site improvements associated with that. Um, so in your packet, I've broken uh each each element out a little bit more. So, construction of a two-story 26 unit hotel, parking below, including a

swimming pool, which is going to be here, uh, pool house with restrooms and a dog run and some other um, amenities for the site. Um, I will say similarly to the last project, this is actually two properties. Uh, you've got Tar Hill Motel adjacent to South Virginia Dare Trail over here. Um, and it's on its own site. Um, there's currently a a pool over here. So part of this entire design would include um removing this pool to rework the septic for the whole project. So taking the septic for uh the existing structure as well as the proposed new structure and then relocating that pool um over here. Um, I did note in your notes the existing motel over here, it's got many nonconformities. It was developed prior to zoning existing. So, um, it's it's hard to uh identify a front yard or a rear yard or a sideyard. We can put it on there. we can show it. But of course, um there's there's some nonconformities there. Those and I think you've all heard me say this in the past and to the new members, a nonconformity can exist as is so long as it's not increased. So, um and with this application, they're not proposing to do anything to increase the degree of nonconformity to the existing structure. So,

um that's that's important to note. Um they would keep access from Virginia Dair Trail as is. So, they would retain this um entrance and exit here, but their drive aisle would flow onto the proposed property and they would have a connection here at East Glidden. So, I will say staff perspective. Happy to see that there's not a proposed cut on to 158 that they're utilizing this side street which is what we encourage. Um I won't go through everything regarding sketch plan. You've heard all that before. So same thing with this staff went through um and and tried to identify any issues with it that we saw early on. Uh, and just like the previous one, these aren't necessarily issues, but we did go through a pretty thorough zoning review. Um, this is located within an X flood zone, but it is going to have to meet our local elevation standard of nine. Um, these are elevated structures. It's a twostory elevated hotel, so I'm confident that that's going to be met. Um, this property is located in the 2 general commercial zoning district, but it's also located in the hotel overlay district. And the hotel overlay district um is a district where there's a little bit more flexibility in the overlay to develop a hotel than if you were developing it outside of the overlay. Um and part of that comes in with lot coverage. So a hotel in the standard C2

would have to meet the 55% lot coverage, but a hotel that's also in the overlay, they can have lot coverage up to 65%. Um, as it's been proposed, this one's coming in at um around 56.1%. So, they're still a lot closer to the to the low end of that. Um just noting again that part of the uh parking area 20% of the parking area needs to be a permeable surface. Um did note that the requirements of section 712 which are the supplemental standards and they were included in your packet. It generally seems like all of those have been satisfied. The um the one area that we did note was parking. Um, and I made a note in your staff report that we very we recently updated our parking standard for hotels and some of you may remember that. Um, but when this site plan was designed, they utilized that old standard. I reached out to Mike Robinson when we noticed this. Um admittedly it was mid to late day Friday so everybody was scrambling but he very quickly put together a revised plan um showing that they can meet those new numbers. So it didn't make it into your packet and I didn't want to show it to you this morning because you haven't had a chance to look at it and it is just sketch plan but I did want to note that um Mr. Robinson has already jumped on it and shown that it can be met. So, as we move through technical review and your formal planning board submittal, you'll have um you'll have a site plan that meets that

minimum parking standard. Um would note uh one other thing in there is that uh the supplemental standards speak to sidewalks and boardwalks. It says it must be constructed to provide grade separation from vehicular traffic of at least 6 in. shall connect all principal buildings on the site and that separate buildings shall be connected with pedestrian passageways that are striped when crossing traffic lanes. So here we are going to have um the old building and the new building. So just a note that moving forward showing a a striped pedestrian path and connectivity between these two structures and the amenities, the pool, things of that nature. Um need to see that. Um, maximum height is, as we said before, is 35 ft. Um, but one element that where there's flexibility in the hotel overlay is that a hotel can go to 60 feet. And anybody that's seen the hotel being developed um down around Lakeside, they see how tall that is. That structure is maximizing that 60 feet in height. This structure is not doing that. So this structure is coming in at 42.8 feet in height and that is to the tip. That is to the elements like the coastal watchtowers and the things that project above that we really encourage. So um it's well within compliance for height. Um location of mechanical equipment just needs to be accounted for. Um there is going to be some buffering requirements for this. Um, as we talked about, they do need that uh parking lot buffering where you have parking adjacent to a ride ofway. We want to see

some landscaping in there. So, as this move forward, um, you'll you'll have a landscape plan that will show all of these things. Um, they do need to comply also with the commercial transitional protective yard. Um, this is a little bit different from what you saw before. So, uh, with TWWs, you had commercial adjacent to a residential zoning district. This is going to be commercial that's adjacent to a commercial zoning district, but it has been developed with a residential structure. So, that 25 ft gets lessened to 10 feet. So, they still have to provide a thicker buffer area where there's that connection and and that's going to be right here. Um, if you can see my cursor, there's some um it's a almost like a cottage court on this property. So, um this enhanced buffer will need to be here and they've allocated for that on their site plan. um they'll need to show compliance um with the landscaping requirements for buildings adjacent to street frontage. So building walls adjacent to a street shall include foundation landscaping when um as needed to screen any crawl spaces, stem walls, lattice work, or open parking areas. Um, so again, I'm sure we'll see a landscape plan that shows these pockets of landscaping and how that complies when it comes to you next. Um, interior parking, landscaping. Um, there's some little nooks and crannies where where I feel like they're going to be fine um to include that level of interior parking lot landscaping as well. Um, same thing as previous, we talked about preservation. you can

preserve existing vegetation or you have to plant new. Um I'm not sure how much existing vegetation is on this site or has really ever been on this site. So they're going to be in that same boat probably of having to um propose new plantings up to 15% of the lot area. Um and that again you'll see that when this comes forward again we've already touched on parking. Um, similarly, similarly, uh, this property has frontage. It's got dual frontage. It's got frontage on 158 and South Virginia Dair Trail and it's a corner lot. We've got East Glidden to the north. So, we put the signage requirements in there because there's going to be sign allocations for each. 32 square feet on South Virginia Dare Trail, 64 square feet on 158 because it's a five lane road. And then again 32 on Lidden. So that's not required right now. Um but we did want to put it in there because that's important for them to know um what they're going to be working with there. And then for architectural elevations, scroll down. Um, I'll be honest. When we first met about this, I don't know that we could have envisioned a structure that really touched on all of the architectural design elements that we like to see here in the town. Um, so we'll need a more detailed review. We'll need a narrative. We'll we'll need to go through and make sure that we're checking all the boxes. But just visually here, you've got roof variations, you've got gable brackets, you've got rafter tails, you've got your coastal watchtowwer, which is a big desirable element. Um,

coastal what, Kelly? Coastal watchtowwer. Uhhuh.

Um, here it's a protrusion above with windows around. Um, you've got your residential style windows. Um, I don't know, but I imagine this is a wood shingle or simulated shingle, which is also ideal. You've got workable shutters. It It appears that they've touched really all the elements. Um, so we'll we'll have to go through it more formally. Um, but with what they've shown, I don't have a lot of reservation at all, but it won't meet it. It it appears to be right in line um with what we would want to see. Um so again, building inspections, our chief building inspector um is really going to have uh more input once he gets more detail. Uh town engineer was very similar to previous comments. Uh vehicular padding exhibit to show that emergency vehicles, communication trucks can navigate the property. Um providing storm water management. Uh we do have a a condition in here to provide soil borings. Um those are going to be required for depth to seasonal high water elevations um and incorporated into the storm water management design. So um you probably saw part of this application was a note from Army Corps of Engineers. When you look at this site online, you can see low spots. So it is it is a low spot. It is wet. Um so having that information on air groundwater will be very helpful as they move forward. Um uh DEEQ Demler per storm water management permit is also going to be required. Um and then the driveway culbert information for that connection on Glidden. Um and again a sedimentation

and erosion control plan which is pretty standard and everybody's comfortable with that. Um public services they just want to see the location of existing water lines and the fire line. Uh we didn't see that uh with this submitt but again that's that's fine. We're at sketch plan. So when we go to technical review um we'll have more information on that. Same for fire. um just identify the fire man, the location of the fire man, um and the riser and water tap. And with our police department, there were no concerns at this time. So, um I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. like previously they're pretty far advanced with this for a sketch plan, but I know that they wanted you to see it um and get preliminary feedback so that they know um how to move forward with this. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. We've got um architect available as well as the engineer.

I can I just say one thing right out the door? It's kind of remember when we were talking about never seeing another hotel, you know, that was and there's been movement. This is kind of what we were wondering we were seeing the end of. So, this is some energy in this. Kelly, uh, and this is for clarification's sake, uh, behind existing building two, between existing building two and what is going to end up being the new drain field. It shows fire lane, uh, concrete paving. Will the new section have access from the beach road?

Um, yes. if I'm understanding your question properly. So, here's the existing correct. So, this will flow through here. Okay. And then do a little curve over into the new site that will pop out onto Glinton. That's it. Kelly, I have a question. Yes. Um the local elevation standard is 9 ft where this is to be built and the height of this proposed hotel is 42.8. Does that begin at the ales?

It does. Okay. So it would be 9 ft taller from grade. Yes. So um I don't know what the grade out here is. Mike May, but let's say it's five or six, then they're going to need to be elevated to the nine. So, they'll be the three. Yeah. Then that's where the the 9 ft lees is where height will start. We're not going to penalize, right, someone for elevating to meet our flood standard. Thank you. Any other questions for Kelly? Thank you, Kelly.

Thank you. You hear from the applicant. Would you like for me to pull this up on

Gwinson, project engineer, the architect is here as well, Tom Brent. U and uh yeah, I mean it's it's a nice little project. Well said. Thank you so much.

Uh we've got the existing Tar Hill Motel. Uh this is an an addition to it on a vacant piece of property. Uh right next to the the Dunes, I think that's the name of the restaurant. Uh it's a low area. First thing we did when we started working on this is like let's make sure the core doesn't have a problem with this. And they didn't. They said, "No, it's not well." Since then, we've done a lot of hydro work. We had a uh geological hydro study done in the property. They did three deep drills. Um did some slug testing, uh which is where you pump into one, you pump out of one, uh well and observe the groundwater drop at an adjacent well, maybe 15, 20, 50 ft away. That tells you what the the the permeability laterally of the soils is. It turned out to be really good. Um so we've got all that's already done all all behind us. Um we've got work to do on the water lines, but that's just sort of typical for where we're at with this stage. We recognize this building would need to be sprinkled. Um, we did have a Kelly dropped a bomb on me on Friday about the parking. Uh, but it was an easy fix. We have more space here on the site to pick up additional parking and um yeah, it wasn't a big deal. So, uh, you know, with that, I think I like the architecture. I think it looks really good. These guys have done an awesome job. and uh you know we're just kind of anxious to get moving on to the next phase.

Any questions? What's your timeline for completion? I don't think we'll be permit ready within six months quite honestly. You know, we've got a storm water permit to take which takes several months. you know, we got a couple months of of u town approval to go through then the design of the building, you know, all that good stuff, the BMES, I can't imagine this thing starting in anything less than 6 months, maybe even closer to a year. So, and then what how long do you think for completion of construction?

Uh, I don't think this is a very difficult building. Um, I'd say a year to put it up. Thank you. Yeah. Um, on the on the site plan um that you submitted or the drawing you submitted, there's some it's because you're kind of working with existing and then adding, there's some walkways that are there that just kind of trickle off. Um on the I'm looking at the where the two the existing drive-thru from the beach road going west kind of angles to the north. There's that kind of crescentshaped walkway there. Yeah.

Um is that going to continue the whole way? Well, that's part of where I was going to pick up some extra parking. So maybe no. The my my my concern is whenever you have encourage pedestrians to walk across a line of traffic, especially in a place like this, you know, those convergences are Well, we can we can stripe a walkway. Yeah. Across to the to the building, the big building on Tar Hill. And and I the reason I like the other side better on the north, just as a as a thought, is the walkway that's existing on the south side is the the front entry to all of those. Yes, it is. It's not it's not really like a walkway. It's more like a

Yeah, it's So yeah, just Okay. Do we have any other questions for the applicants? Kudos again architecturally speaking for the painstaking efforts to uh match all of the architectural elements and the aesthetics. It It looks good. Very nice. Very nice. Um, just curiosity, will any upgrades be made to the existing motel because it will look vastly different than the new hotel that goes up? Just cosmetic.

And they just recently completed some upgrades to some of those rooms. And we had a big upgrade to the wastewater system where they had to go in and install all new plumbing. Just don't take away those murals. Those are cool. Yeah. No, they want to keep the building. When we first started talking, I was like, "Well, let's just rip it all out. We'll just They're like, "No, no, no, no, no. Keep classic." Yeah. That's why I was curious because it's classic the way Yeah, it really is. And it's it's kind of it's kind of a oddball character that never fits any zoning that that makes a town have character. Exactly.

And with the the the septic area that's going to be a big green space which is that's be a huge green space over there which is going to be adjacent to the beach road. That's the reason I'm kind of wondering that's it kind of lends itself to amling across the open meadow that you're going to create there Mike. Yeah. Well, um, you know, there is a sidewalk on that side um or pedestrian access. I I don't really see that being a huge deal, you know. So, okay. Anybody else? Thank you very much. Time discussions. I'm excited. Yeah, it looks cool.

Kelly, I I got one question for you again. Will this eventually go to a um public hearing if it gets far? Okay. Same um same path as previous so TRC planning board formal review. Um and then this is a special use. So we'll have Okay. Public hearing notification. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you, Kelly. Okay. So, we're decided that we're going to move this forward. All right. So, next on the agenda, we have report on board commissioners actions. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right. I don't think there's a whole lot on here. We'll run through quickly. Um so the board of commissioners their meeting um December 3rd and we had a public hearing on there which was related to um our flood damage prevention ordinance as it related to a freeboard standards on the ocean front. Um so the planning board had recommended approval of that and the board adopted that at their December meeting. Um our deputy planning director Joe Costello who manages our CRS program which is community rating system. If you remember those amendments that we were requesting were generated from an audit um that related to our CRS program. Joe has um provided them with that updated information, so they're happy to see that and our audits back on track, so we're all good.

Um they also had a public hearing to consider a vested right special use permit site plan amendment for Nags Head Church. Um that was the additional parking spaces and storm water management. um they voted unanimously to recommend approval of that and then I provided the um uh staff the monthly director's report and um I said it there and I'll say it here as well. Um, one of the things that the planning department is fortunate to be a part of is the art and culture committee and that's the group that does all the events um, townwide but Dowy Park and our um, holiday markets and our treelighting ceremony the weekend of Thanksgiving. It everybody just did a phenomenal job. We had um, I can't give enough kudos. public services decorating the park. If you haven't seen it, go see it. It looks amazing.

That evening, um, we had our police department escort Sprinkles the Elf to the event, uh, prior to Santa's arrival by the fire truck. So, it was it was a great night. So, I just wanted to recognize everybody that was involved with that, um, including our, um, event coordinator, Paige Griffin. So, and I I'm happy that Santa could attend. He made it. Yes. His schedule's rather busy, I've been told.

We Yeah, it it absolutely was. He was able to slip in for a couple of hours, so we were super appreciative, without a doubt. Um, and then of course we had the appointment of our two new members um to this board. And I think that's it in terms of board of commissioner actions. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. And while you're up, any town updates? Staff doesn't have any. I don't know if there's anything um from the board, but staff have anything to add?

I one of the things I was I was interested to hear about the gathering um conversation of in front of the BOC. That was very interesting to see how that moved through and very happy with it. Um, again, Dowy Park is proven to be very useful not only in in creating its own space, but the policy that we're that is being fashioned to support it, I think, scales to the rest of the town quite well as well.

Thank you. Yeah, Nagshad is unique that it's it's a strip town, but Dowy Park is like our town square. Yeah. If we had a downtown, you gives a a charm and a family feel um to this town that I don't think exists around us very well. And I just think Paige has done a wonderful job. Yeah,

she has. I'll take this opportunity to say in the coming year, um, Quailbone Park is going to be another park that we want to start dedicating some time and energy to. We now have the pavilion with some restrooms, shade, um, things like that there. So, that's now open. So, I think moving into spring, summer, fall, we're going to try to start looking at some programming down there at Bone Park as well. That would be great. And Paige knows that. I didn't just

Does anybody else have any comments to make on town updates? The boardwalks are coming together nice over by on the sound side. They're looking really good. Cool. I did have somebody ask when you're talking about the boardwalk, would there be an opportunity to put a pole with um an osprey nest on dump? You know, people like to see things and kids like to see things and that around Sugar Creek, you have one there,

but there's no place to really observe it other than from the restaurant, whatever. But this would give people a lot more opportunity to see. Sure. So, what's being constructed now is part of the visitors bureau and I don't know if they've thought about doing that. Um, we can mention that to them. It's a great idea. We're hopeful and I think everybody on this board is even the new members have probably heard. We are in the planning phases. I guess of working through this group to see if there's a a mechanism to continue that that boardwalk

that the visitors bureau has started um down to the outlets at Nags Head. And so, you know, if if we don't have an Osprey poll with the visitors bureau, I think that's something that we can talk about should we ever have the opportunity to to extend our and and can I throw on top of that a webcam to look at the little ones? I'm sure that would be rather well visited. Yeah, Joe's writing all of this. That's a great idea. And it's it's those accidental opportunities that the internet has taken advantage of. Yeah. Yeah. If you build a poll with a platform, they will come to That's right.

Yeah. Anyhow, thank you, Kelly. Um, we've passed discussion items. Moving on to planning board members agenda. This gives everybody an opportunity to make some additional comments.

Um I'm not Yeah, obviously I'm never going to miss opportunity. Um one of the things that I've been talking about that I've mentioned several times is my concern about um ebikes, electric motorized vehicles, etc. on public walkways. And it's very it's interesting to me how quickly this is moving generally because the technology is so much advancing. Um and one of the one of the things that was brought up in a couple articles, there's a very long really great article in the New York Times about this um accidents etc. um that Megan and I shared a little while ago and it was she had seen the same thing uh talking about it's very difficult to access the information on the injuries because the injury reports just say accident. They don't really go into the nature of the cause because these are not considered to be motorized vehicles strictly speaking because they don't have a combustion engine etc. So it's the increased technology has also created separation between cause and effect. So that it's difficult to understand the causality in a national transportation setting. But one of the aspects that is clearly understood is nature of vehicles. Do you have to pedal to be assisted or can you just get on it and go like crazy? If you've ever been around the schools when they're adjourning, you'll see a lot of kids kind of darting away at some speed on walkways. And one of the things that's been brought up in a few markets is a speed limit to the walkway. Now, I understand it's a speed limit and it's it could be difficult to enforce, but right now there is no limitation. Um, so my my thought is not necessarily to have

an idea moving forward, but to start to create some questions, you know, whether it's a onehe or a powered skateboard or two wheels or anything else. When you get all of that in a con the confined space of a walkway that is adjacent to the rightway, it's not hard to see how it could it could get out of control rather quickly, especially with the the with the traffic. So, I think that even as we move forward, you know, looking at Ciderfield Landing, because it's an area that I do pass by all the time, I see this in its It's something I I think that even as we plan the walkways and put the walkways in that that Kelly alluded to with the general plan, maybe that's something that we can scale into it. Um and even try to understand, you know, whether prohibition of some sort of some of these vehicles might be appropriate as compared to um waiting for the state to intervene and the state has shown no willingness to even list these vehicles as anything. Um there there are several pizza delivery people who deliver on one wheels in the area. Um not maybe not in our town so much, but in other areas and it's rather thrilling to see them go through an intersection. Um so it's it's I I I don't want to be the doomsayer, but at the same point, um it's foreseeable. So, you know, I I feel like we should be at least availing ourselves of an opportunity to think about how this would all scale and how with the continuation it will work.

So, you're talking about sort of regulating powered vehicles on the multi-use path. I think the other thing that I I agree with your concern is that they're so quiet. Yeah. And if nobody's saying anything and they come up behind you um and you might accidentally be in front of them, you're going to get run over. I have we've had I've had several people get knocked off their feet on the beaches by various electronic. Didn't they put a They put a speed limit on the beach road on the sidewalk on the beach road? Um they spray painted it on Yeah. Well, 10 miles an hour.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and I get it's my 10 miles an hour is that's a clip. Yeah. Can you run 10 miles an hour? I don't think many people can. I think that the two the two flies in the ointment and I agree with you. They need to be regulated somehow. However, correct me if I'm wrong, all of these areas that they ride, we refer, we don't refer to them as sidewalks. We refer to them as multi-use pads, making it,

which would mean any sort of nonmotorized conveyance or your two feet. Secondly, you can paint 10 miles an hour, but they paint 50 on the sign on the bypass and people doing 60 and 65. But not in July obviously. Uh but yeah, I mean it's just very difficult to regulate. I as I remember in distant past um when rollerblades were common, there was an effort to prohibit their use on the multi-use trail at some point. Was that is that in my head or did that actually happen? I don't remember rollerblades. I do remember Segways. Okay.

There's been there's a constant it it comes up sort of rhythmically like couple times a year, ebikes, the types of vehicles that we're seeing, how to regulate them, how can we regulate them. It almost always comes down to um a discussion with our police chief, right, about where they stand with it. So, and I know they've talked about it at the board of commissioners a couple of times at least, right? Yes. So it you know it as things are progressing maybe it's it's time for another conversation but it it is it is cyclical these things.

I I found it very interesting in New York City as an example they they they have a clear separation between the throttle movement and you have to pedal to be assisted. Those are very clear distinctions. One being a bicycle and the other one being a motorized vehicle. And you throw into this ointment as well golf carts. And we've been extremely lucky up to this point to have as few issues with them as we've had. But they are a excellent conveyance and there's a devil may care attitude about the use of them um when it when it gets to the end user. And I guess um as much as anything else I'm trying to come up with um maybe to see if there is any thread that can be drugged through all of this. Can a bicycle in Nagad be on the beach? Can you drive a bicycle on the beach?

Because I know in some towns you cannot. I don't know the answer. I see it all the time. Yeah, I know. I see it all the time as well. But in as a matter of fact, I know in our northern neighbors, you cannot have a bicycle on the beach. You cannot have a motorized vehicle on the beach. Um, certainly no motorized. I would have to check out the town code. So,

outside of the UDA and and that's kind of that creates exactly the gray space I'm talking about. So, you could have a bicycle perhaps, but you can't have a motorized vehicle if you have an ebike. It's it I I don't see any reason to not understand why we maybe made it clear or more confusing with a multi-use map um etc. Some areas have pedestrian pathways and then have a separate pathway for bikes and and motorized small motorized or electric motor vehicles which separates the two. Yeah. And

nicely. And I just was wondering if that might be something and and and where I see this being what we what could be done that would be really really neat with the walkway that's going in, the boardwalk that's going in down there. If there could be some kind of a an ideological pursuit to create clear lines where these various means of conveyance will not cross over each other and therefore we'll have as few conflicts as possible. That's a good point. That's a good point. Um, I've made some notes. We can look into it. As far as the the multi-use path on the beach, the right ofway width is the rightway width. You can only fit so much within the right.

Um, and I think they've talked about, you know, striping it to, you know, specifically say pedestrians over here, anything else over here. And, and I don't I'm not I don't want to speak to that. I know that's a much larger conversation at the board level with what they've explored. Um, but definitely noted as something that you're interested in continuing the conversation. I'm just I just I'm thinking that's a space and maybe it's just a conver I think a conversation could be valuable about it. Something like limiting the boardwalk to pedestrian only,

right? just even seeing if there's a if there's something we can steal from another you another area that fits into this application. If it's a good idea someplace else, it could be a great idea here. I don't believe the town of Duck. I don't know what their signage says and I'm sure it happens regardless, but I I don't believe bicycles or any motorized equipment is allowed on their boardwalk. I think it is at least designed to be pedestrian only. Okay. Anybody else?

Uh I would say that I really applaud the the two applicants that were here today with the submission of sketch plans. I think that helps them as they go forward on these large scale projects. It helps us familiarize it, familiarize ourselves with it before we actually come to an approval stage on the process. Uh so yeah, I'd love to see more sketch plan.

So in the in our UDO, anything with a increase of habitable area beyond 5,000 square feet is required to have a sketch plan. We encourage everyone to do it. The storage um that TWWs came before you previously was um it was right at that 5,000 and because it was storage at the time and squished between two buildings, we didn't think that there was there's only so much that could go arrive with that. But um but any large any project over 5,000 square feet of habitable space um new will require sketch plans. And I and as I remember when we did that, the idea behind it was to put all the cards in the table at the beginning between both parties so that there wouldn't be this level of expense to prepare something that was unworkable,

right? Or how it would be work if it would be. We've we've had I know of one sketch plan that came pretty conceptually and it never came back. So, you know, it was useful in that regard because it it went ahead and gave them feedback that they knew it's not going to be easy to overcome. Well, in and I think about Starbucks as an idea as well. That was another situation where it was such a big, you know, there was a lot going on there. The sketches were really, really good.

Yeah. Really good for us to kind of understand how it was going to confl conflict or contrast work. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you all. Any any more comments? When do we choose our new uh chair and vice chair? And how does that happen? 20th of January. Yes. So that's going to be at your January meeting essentially. Um because there won't be one. I'll start the meeting. I call it the board of the flies meeting. Yeah,

it can be that. But um I'll start the meeting and um open up nominations and then this board can go through the nomination process for chair um and vice chair and then from that point on the chair will take over. So that will be at your January meeting. Also at your January meeting we'll have your submitt calendar for the coming month so you can see your dates, your meeting dates. Um, sometimes we like to um bump the one in December up if it's getting too close to Christmas. So, I'll I'll mention that in next month's agenda packet.

Good question. Anybody else? Okay, I don't have anything more to add. Can I make a motion? Yes, you can. Can we adjourn? So, we are Thank you, David. Welcome. Nice job.