Planning Board - Regular Meeting

That's the opening. So, this is home room, right? The announcements coming up. Wow. What was that? That was that was extra. You good? Good morning everyone and welcome to the Nags Head Planning Board meeting for Tuesday, July 15th. I want to briefly welcome our new member, Brad Kerry. Thank you for your willingness to serve, Brad, and welcome. Glad to have you here. So, let's move on to our first or next item, which is the approval of our agenda for today. Have a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Have a motion. Second, and a second. All in favor? I. Great. Moving forward to public comment and audience response. Don't doesn't look like anyone's here to talk to us today. So, we'll move right through that section on to the approval of our minutes from the May 20th meeting. Can I make a motion? You may. Everybody read the minutes. And we have a motion to approve. Second. And several seconds. All in favor? Anybody opposed? Okay, great. Moving right on to our first action item, which is consideration of a text amendment request submitted by TWW's Outdoor Outfitters to amend the unified development ordinance to reduce the required building separation from 20 ft to 10 ft when the additional building serves as an accessory used to the principal commercial use on the same site. Good morning. Hey, Kelly. Um, I apologize. I was under the impression that the would be here this morning. It doesn't seem that he is. So, um I do apologize for that, but I will go ahead and kick off um the review and maybe he'll he'll show up while we go through this. But um as you noted, this is consideration of a text amendment submitted by Chris Greening of TWW's Outdoor Outfitters to amend section 10.86.2.4.2

of the UDO. Um this is part of the commercial design standards and it relates to building size and dimension. The proposed amendment would, as you said, reduce the separation between um structures on one site from 20 feet down to 10 feet. Um the applicant's request was specifically to reduce it to 10 feet when you're talking about a principal use adjacent to an accessory use. Um, I did put a link to the entirety of the commercial design standards so you can see how that relates to all the standards in general. Um, but I did put that specific section 10.86 um, in your code so you have that in front of you. Um, the first section there 10.86.2.4 um states to prevent the appearance of large disproportionate and/or strip style buildings, the following standards shall apply. The length of the principal building shall not exceed three times the width of the building. And then it goes on to tell you how you calculate that. I we don't need that for the purposes of this conversation, so I won't belabor it. Um gives you a diagram to help you understand that. And then the next section is what relates to what is being proposed to be amended. The states properties with multiple buildings shall have each building separated by at least 20 ft and shall not have the appearance of being one structure. For example, multiple buildings may appear to be one structure where there is a continuous roof line over the main structure that carries between the two buildings. Um the next item was just relevant so I included that. It does state that

buildings shall be connected um using exterior pedestrian walkways. So background on this is the town first adopted their commercial design standards in May of 2004. Some of you may remember that whole process, but it was lengthy. There was a lot of citizen input, a lot of conversation that went into it. Um obviously the intent was to promote development that's consistent with the desired architectural style and design of the town. Um and it was to show how we emphasize smaller scale structures and we actually want to discourage um the long linear strip style buildings. So it's pretty fun. I got to pull all of the old ordinances from the library and had our town clerk Britney Phillips help me with it. Um but just for historical background um our first zoning ordinance in 1977 we didn't have that specific 3 to one um length to width limitation but we did have a section on group developments where we said group developments are allowed. They're a conditional use. um and uh the multiple multiple buildings on the same site had to be separated by 20 feet. So that was the really the first time where we see that 20 foot separation come in. Um then in 1983 um that introduced the language limiting um the length of the principle by the width. So that's when that whole 3:1 criteria came into play. Um from 1987 through 1988 there were several amendments. Um but from that point forward we carried um the 3:1 lengthto width ratio as well as the 20 foot separation for group

developments and shopping centers. So for any of y'all that were here when we transitioned from our zoning ordinance to our UDO, you may remember that every single use had all of the conditions beneath it as well as any architectural requirements under that use. So when we transition to the UDO, the unified development ordinance, that's when we took all those specific criteria for architectural design and placed it um in the commercial design standards. So now when you're looking at um the commercial design standards and in the UDO, you don't have all those specific uses with specific architectural guidelines. It just applies townwide. Um so as you can see this the 3 one the 20 foot separation um which was like I said prior to 2019 was included for shopping centers and group developments. that's all been consistent um back to 1993 and even back to 1997 in some ways. Um so with this long-standing emphasis on separation and scale, um you can clearly see that it's the town's desire to preserve its character, promote pedestrian style development, and avoid um the visual monotony of large um uninterrupted commercial facades. So one thing to keep in mind is this is a text amendment. It would be um easy to kind of think about a site plan in mind here, but I wanted to reiterate it is just the text amendment. It is not sight specific. And text amendments would apply townwide. We're not just thinking about um Mr. Greening's development. We're thinking about the entire town. um

the 3:1 um length to width and the 20 foot minimum standard. Um it does present design challenges for him specifically, but again um I wish he were here to have the conversation. Um but he's not and I apologize. Um he could perhaps give you a better indication of what his overall vision is. Um but for the purposes of the text amendment, it's not required. Um the applicant did put in his application that the these requirements do not apply within the C3. So I did want to note in your staff report um that in 2024 the applicant, Mr. Greening did go through the process of reszoning this specific property that he's looking at from C3 to C2 and at that time he stated that resoning was due to um a desire to pursue constructing uses such as retail that was not allowed in the C3. So that was the purpose for the reasonzoning um at the time. The C3 is exempt from this 3:1 requirement um because it is intended for those higher intensity utility light industrialbased um uses and when you go back to that area on Satderfield and lark um and aids you you see that you see what that looks like. So with all text amendments we do look at the comprehensive land use plan um and we have some policies in there that related to this request. The first policy under our land use requirements states that we want to ensure the character of Nagad is preserved as a single family residential beach community with ties to its natural environment. And that's defined by development that blends with the

landscape. Preserve preserves natural vegetation, open space, environmental quality, and buildings with a residential scale that with an appearance of low heights, small footprints that are designed to reflect the heritage of Max Head, and commercial development that serves the needs of the residents and visitors, but also respects the goals of the community related to design. Um, land use policy 15 states that we want to promote architectural standards for commercial development in keeping with an axe head style and architecture. And land use policy 24 states that we want to support land use compatibility and business development through flexible through flexibility in the application of design standards that achieve project goals and preserve the spirit and intent of the town's ordinances. So specifically, land use policy 15 um talks about how with relation to that staff should do an analysis of what's out there, see what complies, what doesn't comply, um talk about those and see if our current standards are meeting um the desired design criteria. So I did not pull site plans for all of these. I did use Dair County GIS and the aerials that we have on there. um as well as their parcel cards. But in looking at some structures that we have out there now that kind of meet that strip style development um we have Outer Banks Mall and that was um constructed prior to the adoption of many of the current architectural standards. We have Croatian Center which was developed in 1996. um it appears to meet the 3:1 ratio and the buildings are separated by 20 feet. Um they do have some eaves and overhangs and things like that. So from a distance it doesn't necessarily look like 20 feet

and they also have a continuous roof line that makes it appear that it is one building. Surfside Plaza was developed in 1978. um also constructed um prior to many of these architectural standards. Um however, it does meet the 20 foot separation which came into play in 1977. I have no idea if that was purposeful or not, but probably not. Um Pirates Clay, uh that was developed in 1984. Um so that was constructed shortly after the 3:1 requirement. And when I look at the aerial, it doesn't appear to meet that 3:1 ratio. And I can't explain why. U maybe it had something to do with the time the site plan was submitted. Maybe that site plan was in the pipeline um when the amendment was approved. And then more recently, we have South Beach Plaza, which was developed um in 2007 and 2008. And that was developed under the group development standard. Those buildings do comply with the 3:1 lengthto width ratio and they are separated by 20 feet. Um this development demonstrates more compliance with the commercial design standards um and does offer more articulated and visually separated form um especially from 158. So staff's analysis um after doing this research staff would not support the proposed text amendment to reduce the required building separation from 20 ft to 10 feet um for accessory use buildings or for any building for that matter. Um the current standard is not just about function but it's about the visual form and character desired by the town. And we believe that the 20oot separation um serves a purpose. It maintains the desired architectural

style and visual breaks along our commercial corridors and it helps prevent the appearance of larger strip cell developments. It enhances pedestrian and public experiences. Creates more human scale environment with a sense of space and openness. Um, it promotes environmental benefits, better air circulation, light penetration between the structures. You're getting some actual air flow and light. Um, and it can also serve as a place to manage some storm water when you have those uh separations in there. Um, it also improves fire safety and building access. Um, enuring emergency personnel and equipment can adequately access areas between the buildings. Um, and again, I've noted while this is a request for a text amendment um, and not sight specific, I did reach out to our chief building inspector and the deputy fire chief um, because I didn't want to pursue any amendment that directly ran a foul of any of their codes. and they essentially both said there's just not enough information at the time because this is a text amendment and it's not a site plan that they can review. Um but that in reducing it there would be some fire suppression measures that would come into play. And um deputy she chief um fire chief Shane Height did note that um there could be some changes in an upcoming newer version of the fire code that would be more stringent in terms of access routes and accessibility. And that's something to think about um moving forward. But again without a site plan in front of them they could not make any recommendations. Um allowing this reduced separation even if it is a secondary structure and an accessory use. We feel that it compromises the intent of the standard from a visual standpoint. The reduced distance with roof overhangs etc would

still convey um the appearance of one structure particularly from 158 or neighboring properties. and the accessory function of the interior space is not really relevant when we're talking about the visual um effect. Um we've already talked about how the C3 is exempt from those standards, so I won't go back through that. Um I did note in your staff report that if you are inclined to recommend adoption of this text amendment to please just keep in mind that it does um affect all commercial development with in the town. It's not sight specific or property specific. It would apply townwide. Um I've kind of already gone through that staff recommendation there, but essentially between our staff review, between the comprehensive plan, between everything we've discussed, um the history of these ordinances going back to 1977 and 1983, um staff's recommendation would be for denial of the text amendment as it's been presented. Um and I I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you, Kelly. Does anybody have questions for Kelly? It's I I I have I have many questions but they're mostly for the applicant but um in this situation um as it exists presently or even with the um the kind of gapping in of this area is that area predestined and must be kept clear by code um as be accessible for emergency services, fire, etc. Is there anything like that cannot be blocked? Is there any verbiage like that in there for the 20 ft? Yeah. So, not in the commercial design

standards, but if Shane Height were to have this plan in front of him and that separation is what's needed to get that hose within 150 ft of any area, which I'm not I'm not Shane, so I can't say it well. But if that space is needed to achieve to to pull hose, then that would be a requirement from the fire department that that access be free and clear. Yeah. in, you know, in the specific application, you know, if if I pulled up the tax map, which is, I'm sure you certainly looked at much more than I, um, it's pretty tight there as it as it exists. Um, on the back side for accessibility to the structures and the existing business, especially this time of year, it's quite busy. Um, so they're they're kind of in that space presently. Yeah. Um yeah so I I I have noticed parking is an issue at some interesting. Yes. Um Satderfield Landing because of the disconnectedness of the feedins because it's not a straight cross. There's no shortage of accidents in that area. And this would I'm I'm sure that as we surpass carry capacity for everything, you know, on a regular basis, it's just going to get weirder and worse. Make sure I understand. What do you mean by there's no straight cross? Um, so it's a Tjunction, right? That the out that causes a backup on the south side with anything that wants to carry east. So the light is a T with no easterly outlet. Right. Right. So what what it means is there's a lot of traffic flow that is trying to go both directions and then it tends to stack in both directions in the turn

lane which causes a pretty frequent um tap and grind or pedestrian issues, crosswalks, etc. So this whole area the way that the there's also drive aisle in front of TWWs which carries into Satderfield Landing from the south side and kind of carries around. So this is just there's a lot going on right here and as well you know the if it seems that the this the owner of this property is also the owner of the property that is due west of it. So it seems you know and yeah so again we're not we're not sight specific but this request is being generated from a desire to continual continue rather this kind of the the length of this accessory structure here um through through this area and provide so if if that's the desired effect would that become Um, it's impossible to say because the applicant isn't here, but in your communication with them, is the desired effect to carry on and do some sort of retail adjacent something. Yeah. The whole way back. So, they're continuing. Yeah. I believe his desire was to um have this function as one structure sort of attached to the accessory structure that is existing with more retail and more storage and perhaps even another little smaller retail structure over here on the west side of the property. um and in talking with him

that would obviously run a foul of the 3 to one. So there has to be separation in there somewhere. So whether the separation was going to be um here and then pick up with a row of buildings here or whether you would continue this to your 3 to one and then allow a gap, you know, in the building here, right? It was just where would the gap be? It would have to be 20 currently. Could that gap be reduced to 10 is where this precipitated from. So my understanding of of what's going here, he just wants a bigger building, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think I think he's wanting to maximize lot coverage space. all of that while keeping in mind that you know the septic system for this is going to take up a good amount of space. Parking for this is going to take up a good amount of space as well. So he says in the application if the planning board denies his request uh if amended code is unsupported property owner will most likely reszone back to C3 and develop less appealing light commercial service bays as previously approved. Yes. So that property had it was C3 prior and there was an approved site plan for a trade center there. Yes, there was. You were here for that. We were here. Yeah. So um that is not what the applicant wanted to develop. He he didn't want to do that

industrial style. He wanted retail. So that was um what precipitated the resoning. Um, and so now it seems like he's hit another obstacle that he's trying to navigate. But to reszone this back to C3, that's something that I can't even speculate on. It's another public hearing. It's more public comment. It's okay. Now, you know, we staff went through the process of advocating why it was appropriate for C2. So, it might be interesting to see how staff now advocates was appropriate to go back to C3. Well, and it wasn't just staff, it was both boards, correct, that were very supportive. It made sense to to make it C2 because of the surrounding the other surrounding properties and uses and there's res there's some residential there. So, I think all in all, people were pleased with the with the change, right? And so I'm not sure that we need to make a a townwide change because his business model has changed. So let's if I may, David, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna It's an It's an unusual morning because we're right now in the in the um phase of asking questions of staff, right? And the applicant's not here. So I guess we should probably just to follow protocol, see if there's any other specific questions for Kelly about the text amendment and that that process and then we'll move on to our discussion phase and everybody can Okay. Um weigh in, right? Is that okay? Sounds great. Um okay. So, does anybody have And it's tricky for you, Kelly, because you know, nobody wants you to speak for the applicant. We do have his application, so that's helpful. Does anybody else have questions for Kelly? No,

I do not. No, just one quick one. The the visual you showed a little while ago with the main store and then that accessory unit behind it. Does that meet all the current seat to the 2? It does. Okay. So, we're we're good in that particular instance. I I I have a a wee bit of a question. The property adjacent to the south um is it it appears to be kind of right on the line. Um, does that is it is it within is it within existing codes? Um, so these lines I will say aren't 100% accurate. Um, so Plaza del Soul and it was constructed simply because the way that the the the confluence of the properties does create some safety issues. I would imagine that this does meet the um the 10-foot setback that was in place at that time and it you know it doesn't appear that it does um I will say again it's somewhat sight specific but because this is developed residential um depending on what use goes here that 25 foot commercial transition protective yard would be required because you didn't have that separation between TWWs and Plaza del Soul because it was commercial against commercial but any development on this property is going to abut residential and so that greater buffer yard would kick in um regardless of of what's developed. One more question. If there was an effort to the of the property owner to

combine these lots into one lot, would that affect anything? It wouldn't. The zoning remains the same. It would still be a continual um C2 zoning, which my gut was that if he were able to accomplish everything he wanted, he he would combine these lots at some point. Um because he might very well have a building straddling. But um I yeah I don't want to speak for him but nothing nothing would change. Um I would only say that we can only take this application at face value because the applicant is not here. We can't try to imagine what his motivation is and what his actual plan is or may be. Um, and this is a text amendment that would affect the entire town. And I think that's the way we have to look at it. Okay. So, I do have one question, Kelly, for you, I think, or maybe more than one that I think is appropriate for you, for staff, and that is, can you talk a little bit, I'm trying to figure out how to say it about accessory use for commercial? I mean, that isn't something we hear a lot about. you have, you know, you have retail space and then you have re and you have retail space and there's storage on site a lot of times. I'm not I'm just not familiar with a lot of reference to accessory use to commercial. Is that so historically a an issue? It hasn't happened a lot. I think a lot of your commercial they incorporate that storage into the principal structure, but in this case I believe um they had a lot of inventory like too much backstock and inventory to store it within the building and maximize their retail

space. So this building back here, it's subordinate in size and it's it meets those criteria for accessory structure and accessory use. storage. It's storage for the product within the principal. Um, and it's just where his staff are going to replenish goods. Um, trying to think if there's any other Yeah, I was going to ask you, not to put you on the spot, but do you know of anybody else that has a similar situation in town? Um, I imagine this I imagine this building for Ben Franklin is somewhat similar. I imagine that this is storage, right? Um but that's definitely accessory subordinate if you will and it's not you know getting bigger or expanding or correct. Yeah. To take an accessory and then attach it to or closely keep it in the same design schematic with other principles. I understand where you're Yeah. Well, and the other thing um I will mention, it's sort of part of the question. I just said we're not going to get into discussion, but but I noticed in the application he mentions um online sales as well. So that's and that may be something I I ask you this now to see if you consider any more light on any discussion about that, but also and I'm not opposed to online sales. We all know it's what how the world is in large part now. But um that may be something that the town needs to consider moving forward if there's a if there's a movement towards people are you know our retailers um do you know doing online sales that require space you know that's not allowed. So, we don't know again because he's not here and because he doesn't say

what proportion um is actually retail backstock and what proportion might be um inventory for online sales and that's not that's not I'm not making a judgment. I just you know if that's a thing we need to be thinking about it and looking forward in my opinion. No, I think it's a good idea. I will say that we do have one business here in town that does have some online sales. I think the majority of their business online sales. Um, but the district that they're in specifically speaks to the ability to have warehousing and processing. So, I think when you're looking at online sales, maybe maybe a warehousing or a storage area is maybe more suitable than a accessory, right, designation. And I think that we should try to become you know be aware of the changes in retail and if we're you know and it and is this actually just you know is this retail which we've always thought of for all these years as long as the town existed as being on-site retail sales you know. So anyway, is back on kind of another property that is a little similar back off Satderfield Landing, what used to be the old artisan stone. Is that similar? Would that be a similar use? They where there are two um two businesses on the same property actually more than two businesses on. So there is a lot of history with this site. Um okay, it is C3. So this 3:1 would not apply in this scenario because it is C3. When this started out, this was the showroom. Yep. And this was the processing. Y and then I guess when that went away, the town approved a text amendment for multiple

principal uses which allowed them to utilize these spaces separately. But again, um it was in the Recognizing that these large buildings as some businesses move out, they may have to be repurposed. Yeah. And this kind of does feed into the online sales. The the business that's there presently does do a lot of sales through on wheels kind of deal where they're sending things out. Yeah. Okay. Anybody else have questions for Kelly regarding the text amendment request? I just wanted to say thank you because that's really thorough how you went back and looked um when the when the certain um codes were written. It's helpful, isn't it? And that's helpful to have Yeah. because you know we we take Kelly for granted but Brad thank you for reminding us how helpful their presentations are. We don't take you for for granted Kelly. It's okay. It's okay. So let's move on to our next phase which is um discussion and and a recommendation. Well I the reason this applicant put this in is clear. He needs additional storage and retail space and he wants to shrink the distance between the buildings. And we're talking about the whole town here though, right? for a text a minute. Correct. I think based on what Kelly's staff put together, we've got enough there to concur with her staff and say no. Okay. I agree. I'm also really concerned with the law of unintended consequences. You know, as this scales townwide and it starts to fit into every niche and cranny that has been created, how will not only that function, but that will look and what problems will be knockon created? The dominoes will fly in every direction. Correct. And you know, we're always

looking at redevelopment. I am. You don't know. We don't know what's coming, you know, and so again with the changes in retail and sales, online sales, retail, we especially need to be um tuned in, I think, to making changes that'll affect I I think the history of the um commercial design standards, like you said, them giving us so much information and there's nothing significant that has changed that would, you know, directly affects this. It would make us say, "Oh, that doesn't make sense anymore for this reason or that reason, you know." So, um, I would agree. You don't? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. Anybody Anybody want to All right. Well, I'd love to entertain a motion. Make a motion to turn this down. We have a motion to deny the text amendment request. Second. And a second. All in favor? Oh, excuse me. Any further discussion? Okay. All in favor? I. Denial. Anyone opposed? Great. Then we will move on. Thank you, Kelly. Um, let's move on to our report on a board of commissioners actions from June 11th and Oh, that's right. July 2nd because we didn't get updated in June, did we? We did. And there's not really a whole lot. I'll move through it quickly. I did want to point out that um at their meeting uh the board did do their um uh presentations for the NAX header and the lightkeeper and the former deputy planning director and he was planning director for a little while as well, Bruce um who passed away recently was awarded the Nags header. Um and Web Fuller was awarded the town light keeper. Um, so that was exciting if you were able to see that meeting. Um, what else? Uh, we had our public hearing for, um, the reszoning for this property here for the fitness center.

Um, that was approved. Um, also the text amendment that went along with having the, um, fitness center and all the accessory incorporated as accessory to municipal um, within the village SPDC institutional district. Um we looked at the site plan for the fitness facility um and that was approved and um they formally appointed Basil to the septic health advisory committee. So that was pretty much oh also at the June 11th meeting that's when they appointed Brad Kerry to the planning board. That was that for June 11th. Um and then for their July meeting, I think this one was pretty sparse. Um we just held the public hearing for um the Hard Road Street uh beach access grant that will be coming to you in the form of a site plan eventually for your review. Um and that's it. That's all we had. Okay, great. Thank you. Anybody questions or comments about BOC actions from June 11th and July 2nd? Okay. Any town updates requested? All right. Let's move on to our discussion item H1, continued discussion of strategic plan action item 2.2 as it relates to the examination of allowable uses within the commercial outdoor recreation overlay district. So we are having technical difficulties again. Again, no, that's actually pretty rare. Okay. Well, so what Joe's going to show you is this really cool animated depiction and

I think it just takes up a lot of space and it's difficult to get running sometimes. Well, so is this our break? This our chance. Should we do you want to move on to the Yeah, let's move on and then we'll come back if when we get it straight. So, the next thing of course would be your director's report. Let's see. Okay. Do we have two of these as well? Yes, I would assume we do. So, we will start with I believe we're kicking off with the July meeting. Um the septic health advisory committee. Um, so we are going to be meeting I think it's the 30th of July, the end of this month. Um, so that will be our quarterly meeting. We're just going to wrap up the framework for this division of water infrastructure loan. Um, the last thing we have to do on that is really on staff, which is determining how we're going to pre-qualify our contractors with the uh Davis Bacon Act requirements related to wage requirements and um the American Iron and Steel Act. So, that's really the last piece of that. Um, and then it's also got to go to the LGC, which Amy Miller, our deputy town manager, has scheduled um shoreline management. We're moving forward with that. Um I want to say everything came together really quickly and Joe might have to jump in an update on this, but um some of the work that they had been doing on site has been completed and they do have their design report ready. Um and we're planning on I'll let you jump in. We've got some updates and some community meetings coming up, but I think Joe right so they've recently completed a lot of the modeling. The basis of design report

should be is scheduled to be done August 1st which will be all of that data and then that initial design and concept design for both the sound event or excuse me the um I'm gonna do um the uh Billoon Drive site and then the soundside road sites. Um so at least you know conceptually we're it's going to be some breakwaters in the villunes site um with with more living type structures and and and more plantings um adjacent to the Nagad woods and then smaller less vegetated sites as as it goes down on Villa Dunes and then looking at the southside road site it's going to be mostly marsh sills with smaller break waters. The point is to minimize the impact SAV which is essential to get permits. Um so putting break waters out into the sound basically permiting agencies don't want to see that going on top of um subaquatic vegetation because it'll um basically damage wildlife and um the erosion benefits don't really offset that. So it's mostly what was your first term? Mar a marsh sill. Oh marsh sill. Okay. I thought you said marill. I want to wait for, you know, the engineers to finalize everything because they've just completed sort of this modeling and looking at how the sand comes off of Jockeyy's Ridge and how that sediment moves through the sound. So, it's been interesting looking at all their maps and data. I don't want to sort of preempt their design and findings, but at least like the notes and discussions, it's going to go like a larger breakwater

closer to sort of the north part of the Nags Head Woods and then smaller breakwaters. And then with the Southside Road area, obviously there's a lot of private property. Um, so it's it's it's a complex legal situation given, you know, the riparian rights, the easements that would be necessary, and then the very dense subquatic vegetation throughout that area, which is great for um fish and um life basically, but um makes it challenging to design structures that would be permittable and help reduce erosion for those property owners. So looking forward to receiving that report. Um following up that report on August 7th, I believe that that Thursday right after the board meeting will be our community meeting. So the consultants will be here in town. We'll have a discussion um sort of inhouse and sort of they'll release that um those findings and then we're going to have a community meeting hopefully in this room um that evening to get property owners here and and you know there'll be uh design boards to help people understand and answer those people's questions. So thanks. Yeah, I have one quick I just was curious. It says um the drone imagery was 98% accurate. What What does that mean? Why wouldn't it be 100? I mean, so the drone, you know, we we we flew uh soil and water, um went county flew a drone, you know, it it we was able to capture all of what's underneath the water and capture all these, you know, what mostly was subaquatic vegetation, but in a couple instances, it was we thought it was SAV, but really it was like rocks or sediment

retired. Yeah. And it didn't it wasn't Okay. I was just curious. I mean, interesting to me. So 98% is really good. Yeah. Which confirm that you know this it's a helpful way to delineate right SAV without having to go out there and do all of that because it is a large extent. And so Deer County did that, huh? Yeah, they participated. That was nice. And appreciate Charlie for his help with that. Well, you know, because does the town have a drone? Uh I believe police does, but you know, we don't have one that has the sort of this camera to capture the healthy spec differences county then pitching in. What happens if that we have a hurricane and this stuff gets washed away? Do we just lose the money or like do we get another grant or like FEMA covered or It's a great question. It's actually one I have pending with the consultants. um if they have examples of other living shorelines that have been damaged and then you know like our beach is is basically reimbur that work is reimburseable through FEMA. Um but I haven't received a response to that. But I can also say that one of the the big benefits of living shorelines is that they are resilient and there's you know lots of sort of information on you know basically like hurricanes that have destroyed bulkheads and destroyed structures, but those um living shorelines survive. You know, those plantings survive and they do a great job of just capturing sediment and and being resilient through large storms. But I don't I'm not an engineer, so I don't want to sit here and guarantee a level of um storm that that they can handle. Yeah, just curious. Yeah. No, it's a great question. It's it's actually like a the huge thing with Noah. Um how survivability storms, sediment,

vegetation on both sides. That's a that's that's a whole rabbit hole of of information and study. There's a lot known. It's interesting though because we're so close to the duck research pier. That's where a lot of really good research is being done. We could be a test bed. I mean, as a as a an idea for a grant, because we're so close and they've got such a long period of time, it would be neat if you if someone had some ideas about other things that work, maybe we could become a test bed for good ideas with them as the outsource through the Army Corps. Yeah, it's a innovative project. I mean I don't I you know in in working through this process there's there's not many examples certainly not in the Outer Banks of of sort of break waters like this with private property. There are with sort of larger state owned property but to sort of coordinate this with a lot of private property owners and considering access and all the um public accesses and then you know private property access and property rights. It's it's certainly a a fine needle to to thread. People approach this with a lot of caution because of the amount of outlay there is and really, you know, it's the return is minimal. It's more of a we'll wait and see effect. So, the Army Corps kind of has created a a rubric to follow and everybody seems to fall in inside that gap. Yeah. Well, hopefully the return won't necessarily be minimal. I'm not trying to be No. And have you seen what they're doing at the north end of Jackie Ridge State Park? Oh, no. And kind of where very effective very effective. No, it it is really effective, but it's it's really incremental. You know, it kind it's very dependent upon, you know,

how what kind of a year you have for weather. Um what kind of year you have for this or that. It's It's like, you know, I'm renourishment is a great idea until you have a really bad day. Yeah. Look at look at soundside. One event pushes a hole through the beach and, you know, kind of created re kind of reddrafted everything um here short term. So um everything seems to be this I I really like the soft um a soft application of natural stuff as compared to the rigidity of you know of some of these structures they put in. Yeah. Several along the sound side uh in the village the soundside access has used that and along the golf course on the sound have used that very successfully. Yeah. Yeah. And it's held up to all of the hurricanes. And I just think it's great. We're looking at that side of the town. Yeah. I really do. Yeah. Certainly. I certainly agree. And so staff Joe, are you involved in the grant application right now? It says staff's so that's due on the 17th or whatever. Yeah. Amy and um has done, you know, most most of it um and then working with our consultants, but We're applying for that because the the current grant funding for those two sites got us to 60% design and then through permitting. And so what we're applying for is to take us from 60 to 100% basically design documents that we can put out on the street and and get but it's a different pot of money for construction. So we'll have to get some It's nice that it's going along so quickly. Pretty quickly. Yeah. But there's quite a few um you know complexities to move forward with. Right.

Okay. So, um that was Joe jumping in on your report, right, Kelly? It was. Are you So, you want to come on back up and finish for us and then you might as well finish and then we'll go back. Are you all ready to do the cord? I don't know. It seems as though his computer may It's not It's not going to happen. Oh lord. Is that what you're I can pull up the model. Okay. Well, we can still talk. It's okay if the dog ate your homework. We only have a black board and some chalk. That's right. Yeah. I wouldn't want it. You wouldn't want to see me up there trying to do that. Gotcha. All right. Okay. So, so we're going to go back to your report. We're gonna go back. Sand relocation um was the next item that we had to talk about. And so, this season is complete. Um, we had 94 people apply for the duty management cost share program. It ended up coming out to be about $213,000, maybe a little bit more. So, the board allocates past couple years the board has allocated 400,000 for this and we were obviously below that this year. So, um, I think what happened is we are in a three-year cycle. So, as part of the dune management program, you can get 3500 for your sand relocation and your dune stabilization. Or if you're not doing sand relocation, you can get a thousand for your um grasses or sand fencing. And

we had a lot of people participate that first year. And so, they're not eligible for that full 3500 until this three-year cycle. And so, I think this is why this number is low. Next year we should see people who took advantage of it that first year circle back. Um so I mentioned to the board of commissioners I do think that the 400,000 is adequate and will be used and they had asked for some mapping and some data um to show how many people used it that first year versus the second and then this year. So to know that we can anticipate more usage in the coming year. Um that's going to be at the board of commissioners August meeting and um we talked about the Hardrove Street access grant. That's just for some improvements at Hardrove Street. We have to go through the process of the public hearing, the site plan review, etc. Um and again, like I said, you'll see that site plan um when it's ready for approval. and then Dowy Park Farmers Market um and everything that's going on with all of our parks and with the art and culture committee. There's just so much like right now is the prime season. Um we've got several types of fitness activities going on. We have our summer concerts going on. Um family fun times that's somewhat new. It used to be on Tuesday evenings, but now it's Tuesday mornings. We're having a lot more participation now that it's in the morning. Um, Rip Tide, the Corala horse was here um, last week and I think that was a huge success as well. Um, they have another activity for kids. Kids move more and then we have the wagon Wednesdays at the dog park. So, just a lot going on. and speaking with Paige. See, she she is exhausted, but

everything's going really well and everything's um everyone seems to be very excited for that. That's really all I have. The one thing that I did notice up here um in our monthly activity report that I will mention is a huge shout out to our environmental planner Connor Twitty who operates our septic health program um that Basil sits on the committee for. So he probably for over a year has been talking with um the waterworks department for Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. predominantly on sewer, but they do have some properties that are um serviced by on-site septic. And it's sort of that um the way he put it was these areas are um land rich but money poor. And so being able to extend sewer to these areas is becoming difficult. So they are putting together a program very similar to ours to help service those communities there. And they actually came up. I thought they were here for like two days, but they ended up spending probably four or five days. Um, but they met with staff all day, looked um we went through our program, they went on site. Um, Connor showed them how he does his inspections, what he looks for, how to clean the filter, like all the things that we offer people that they are going to try to start offering as well. Um, but then they hung around for the farmers market and actually and saw Connor at his little um town table at the farmers market. And so that was really cool. So, um it was great seeing another municipality see our program and want to look into it and maybe do something similar. Um and to just see Connor um stepping up and doing such a wonderful job.

How did that town find out about Nag's Head and all the works going on? So they had actually said that numerous people had once they spoke with them had recommended they reach out to us. I know one was maybe ECU um East Carolina and um talking about also talking about this which I didn't list this but we did get a request in October to go to a symposium in is it Bufort North Carolina or Bowfort I know North Carolina North Carolina okay the North Carolina Um, Connor has been asked to be the guest speaker at a symposium there talking about um, on-site septic systems, wastewater um, and water quality. So, that's awesome. That's cool. That is very cool. And in my in my old world when other organizations came to call it a benchmark to do a benchmarking trip to your organization, that's a that's very flattering. It really was. and the fact that they hung out and continued. Um, yeah, it was great. There's also a restaurant owner in Nag's Head who owns a restaurant in Mount Pleasant who ironically appears to be putting in a new septic system at their restaurant as we speak. So, yeah, there may be some connection there. Yeah. Kelly, with the um with the zero interest loan program, yes. Is that money? Do we have that money and we're trying to figure out how to use it or we're hoping to get that money? So, we have it. Okay. Um but it's not going to be awarded until we give them our scope. Okay. And they review our scope and determine that it meets all their criteria. Okay. So, it has been awarded. We just can't start dispersing it until we we get the final sign off. Um which like I said, we're really

close. We've gone through the process of identifying those high-risk properties. Um those are going to be those that are near water body um have not had any um septic upgrades um maintenance anything like that within the past five years haven't used the program and are at an elevation of 3 feet or less. Um I think we identified between 280 300 properties that meet that criteria. Um and so we don't want to just open this up for everybody. We really want to target those high-risk properties. And so finding a way whether it's um probably not a cold call because that might scare people um but getting a communication specifically to them um about water quality, the age of their septic system, and the fact that we do have money available if they want to participate. It's really cool. Yeah. Great. It is really cool. Dowy Park. We had no idea it would be kind of this avenue for so many directions. Um, one of the things that I'm happiest to hear about is it's very difficult in your job, Kelly, or in any municipal government job to be in a position where you're talking to somebody in a in in anformational point of view where it isn't a contingent of adversarial contact, you know, where they're coming forward, they want something from you. Um and in that way I feel that it's it's made the town much more approachable and such approachable. Absolutely. And and this was completely unforeseen. Um, the fact that we're talking about a parks thing that that was not an idea that

wasn't a I'd never heard the s on park. It just really wonderful to see that we have developed this adjunct to government because of vacant land that a chance was taken. I feel this is an extension of this is, you know, possibly moved into something as simple as just every beach access. You know, is there has there ever been any communication about establishing any kind of parks plan for any of the towns oceanront areas? As far as our beach accesses, yeah, there has not um thus far. Right now, to be honest, we're focusing on extending these activities to Wellbone, to Barn Street, um to the Dog Park. As far as the beach accesses and them being really purchased and developed under cam grants, I don't really know how much we could do there, but um it's it is something to think about in and what I see is that we have really three different types. you have underdeveloped property where there's really not much going on there, parking accesses where there's minimal in a walkover and then areas like Bonnet Street and Epstein and Hardrove where there's more development gone on there and you know it's kind of stepping up in that direction and I I just wonder if there isn't some opportunity for some enhancement um just by inclusion by you know if if there is no conflict within KMA uh to do that because everything happens on the in the east side of the den is open and so it's it's not part of the space but it's included in the space for

everybody's point of view. It may not be what you're thinking about David but we do have um our groundwater loggers and our water quality loggers. We do have those at the bond street access which once everything comes together that's going to be a huge educational component that people come and look at and things like that and countywide there there's there's more than a couple of those as as I remember um countywide there's also some more of that and it'd be interesting to see if that stuff start to share around a little bit so we just understood it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's everything from your report Kelly. Thank you very much. It was comprehensive. Joe, are are you ready to talk with us? So, we'll go back to um discussion on the commercial outdoor recreation overlay district. I for one think we need to rename that thing as quickly as possible. Yeah. I mean, somebody I think Molly, you were the first one, you know, but it's just Anyway, Um, so yes, let's talk about the cord. I do apologize. My computer was working fine this morning. I've had some battery issues. I have a battery on order, but between taking it, unplugging it from there, and bringing it to here, it seems like it is now retired. It gave up. It's too big to email it to. So, the dog ate your homework. Yeah. Is that what you're trying to tell us? So, the dog Yeah, basically. Um, so I had a really cool animation. I promise. I would I would sell it at every opportunity. We'll see it next time. Yeah. Yes. Perfect. So,

um maybe for Bradley's benefit, but for mine as well, just to kind of start at the beginning, um we had a strategic plan item to look at our UDIO and our comp plan in relation to the the cord and basically are there areas of incompatibility? Is our zoning doing what our comprehensive plan says we should be doing? And if not, where not? Um, and so here's that item right there in our strategic plan. Identify and correct areas of land use incompatibility within the town. correct inconsistencies between the comprehensive plan and the UDO and some items to consider and you can see D there is to examine the allowable uses within the cord. And so in March staff prepared a existing conditions report which basically looked at what had been planned and how development has occurred since the commercial outdoor recreation district was established. And then in looking at the comprehensive plan, how development has gone and then other plans like the transportation plan, our pedestrian plan, the um secondary transportation improvement plan, which is a regional prioritization of transportation projects and and basically looking at all of that comprehensively and saying, do we like what we see? If not, you know, what's incompatible with what happened and can we can we or should we tweak zoning and we had that discussion and planning board's um answers are in red and and basically what we discussed and what I heard was we generally like the mix we have of commercial outdoor recreation um and and the visibility of the sound.

We like the reduced heights of of most of the structures there, but we have to keep it that way. We don't want to see some of the undesirable development that could potentially occur given the underlying C2 zone that anyone can develop any C2 use in any of those core properties and basically break up the continuity of of the area. And then we kind of talked about what are some other things that we can do to basically encourage what we want to see. And and one of those things that the comprehensive plan sort of highlights is making the area more walkable, making it connected especially to the Willbone Activity Center and integrating those those uses in and that whole collection of outdoor wreck. um as well as with retail and restaurants and makes use of the comprehensive plan sort of speaks about. I think right now it more or less functions as highway commercial than more of a true activity node like a true pedestrian connected node. We do have the multi-use path that provides that connection from sort of the northern to central cord as I sort of um you know further divided in that core report. Um, but maybe more could be done. And and some of the things we talked about was, you know, shade trees, um maybe maybe better lighting, maybe um public art, as well as um potentially extending the boardwalk now that the Southside Event Center has an approved site plan and has put out forbid construction of the boardwalk, at least for their section, which is, you know, a rather large section of what's in the court. But some other points were that we could, you know, look at zoning and we looked at that in that cord report. We

looked at maybe some uses that we really don't want to see then some things we could do that we could maybe make accessory to outdoor uses that maybe would be a benefit for the area. And then the comprehensive plan really talks about mixed use group development. these things being things that would be desirable in the area and you know our ordinance doesn't allow for it. So I think that's a big opportunity to look at when when considering the incompatibility incompatibility between the zoning and our what our comprehensive plan says we want there. Um then in in the U May meeting sort of synthesized that conversation we had in April and and and and laid it out and and what I heard was, you know, we need to prioritize and we need to probably engage the public on on some of our considerations. And so we've been working on that. And for this update, you know, I had this model that was going to have a still image of it here just just for, you know, just to visualize just to sort of chew on as a planning board and kind of discuss and it would have been easier to kind of obviously look around. Um, my computer decided not to cooperate. Um, but you know, it it would give us something maybe more to kind of conceptualize and discuss in a more real way. Again, it's just a concept. It's just a visual. Um, but I did look to prioritize from all of the sort of that that larger discussion, you know, what what can we work on? What can we actually do and what can we kind of move forward with? And I I thought maybe there were three large things. Number one was really to consider

extending the boardwalk um to the outlets. Number two was to change the zoning to increase the flexibility of uses within the cord. But given SP 382, we can't remove a lot of the uses we don't like. But let's just not focus on that and let's just focus on what we actually could amend which is maybe adding some of these uses and and and making mixed use and group development possible and and helping commercial outdoor rack uses stay there as opposed to you know becoming a large residential use or some random other C2 use that we've kind of discussed in previous meetings And so, you know, I I put sort of a nick steps here and I thought today would really be a further discussion about fine-tuning these key core area planning priorities. Um, whether you agree with with staff's analysis, um, whether you think we should focus on something else because we we have talked about a lot and it's we're kind of going from wide to more defined. Now, we have Bradley here who um, you know, knows the area well and has some some great insight. And so, you know, just just to look at the zoning more specifically, I think this appropriate land use table that's in our comp plan is pretty key. And, you know, the soundside activity node basically over overlays with our commercial outdoor recreation district pretty well. And you can see, you know, specifically what the uses that we say we want that the community wants here. We want um for this blend of multif family hotel which we got one hotel we tried to pull that hotel overlay district SB 382 kind of took our legs out from under us um mixed use commercial office retail restaurant but not drive-thru

indoor entertainment andor outdoor recreation water dependent uses such as a boardwalk pier accessory water dependent uses to commercial use mixed use or hotel again our zoning hasn't really supported that defined development that we want in our comp plan. And then some other things we have down there, gallery, museum, institutional uses such as parks, and then even fitness studios. And so I kind of pulled out of that cord report those yellow and green uses, the things that we can do to add to our zoning and not just take away. Um, so we wouldn't require reszoning and all of private property owners consent to reszone. And so some of those things for discussion are in yellow. You know, residential based on again this this land use table. We could look at making cottage courts, maybe our new small multif family or our two family um as as accessory to a court use. We can make those zoning text amendments. Um breakfast, potentially recreation, beach recreation sales, um again, group fitness, aerobics, coffee shop, juice bar, ice cream shop, and then you know making looking at those definitions of multiple principal uses in group development. We don't have outdoor recreation uses included in that. So like you couldn't have a putt putt and a restaurant on the same site. Um maybe that's something that again can in the long term encourage some of this development to stay there. We don't want it to necessarily become what could be a byite large dwelling um or or multiple

large private residential dwellings to kind of cut up the corridor. And I think we kind of agree that if all of the commercial outdoor recreation uses went away from the area, it would it wouldn't be desirable. You know, we we want that today and maybe we want some of these other mixed uses to help them. We can't pull some of these uses that could come in future redevelopment, but maybe we can incentivize a more mixed use um and through some of these zoning changes. So, I'm happy to open it up now to the question. Yep. Right now, can a commercial business have an accessory use that is housing for their business? I mean I know that's ADU oriented but like right now could you do that? So um what was the question? Can a commercial business right now with in this area have a residential accessory use? So they can um but probably not in the context that you're thinking. Okay. So we do allow commercial with accessory residential in all of their zoning districts and it essentially allows um commercial development to have three okay dwelling units as an accessory. There's some parameters about where it's located on the lot and how big it can be. might be like square foot on area. But when we went through the multif family process, we did talk about the next step is going to be finding a mechanism to allow multif family that more dense capacity um not what we currently have as an accessory on properties that have already been developed. So above the food line or correct? We have not done that.

Okay. Yet, but we know that that was the next phase. Okay. All right. Question. Yeah. I um I think it's important to get the this this business community involved as soon as possible because I've noticed like one of the businesses that's here that's recreational oriented I think is closed like the bumper boats or something like do you know what I'm talking about? And it does not look open. Hey Molly, will you speak in your mic? Oh, people contact me sometimes and say they can't hear us. Oh, okay. Um, I just I think we should get the business community involved as soon as possible so that they know we're looking at creating something cool here. So, don't sell your property quite, you know, like Yeah. You know, because redevelopment would probably be a huge attractive potential for some people. Yeah. And I noticed that this one business seems to be closed and Kelly can probably fill us in or Joe, but it's like the bumper boats or something. Yeah, they're not closed, but unfortunately the bumper boats, I guess, were not profitable. Okay. So, they have um poured concrete. They fill the pool in. Okay. They're adding more parking. Okay. That um that property is owned by um John Van Lunan. Brian Wilson. John used to own it. Brian Wilson has Millers right beside it. He has since purchased it. Okay. Jamie Moore is operating some of the recreational uses, but the bumper boats, I think the ice cream or the the frozen yogurt, whatever was going on in that building has ceased. They're trying to revamp it. Okay. But I do think Jamie's still running as a recreational business. So, it's just parking right now. Pretty much it's parking what was a recreation business. Yeah. Yeah. Where the bumper boats were. Um that depression, it's been filled in and they're going to stripe that for additional parking.

So now there are bumper cars. Should we have a field trip down there, y'all? Maybe. Sure. Sure. Sometime. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. I have the keys to the adventure park. Yeah. We can have a a team building exercise while we're down there. Oh, joking. I for one I mean I go by there and I go down to parts of it but I it might be helpful to us. We could do group trust falls. Remember right remember when we did well is that that's an election that that might be an election actually if the whole board goes Lily has to come and take minutes. I think we did it in pieces when we went to well bone right probably. Yes. Just two two at a time or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So that but we might could get a waiver to let us all go. We don't have to discuss. Yeah. Anyway, I also like the idea that's on here about it was Gary's idea for museum and he when he was on the board he was talking about having a Nagad museum. Um yeah and I think that would be so cool and I know the properties for sale with all the Nelly Myrtle collection and I asked the lady the other day said where's that going to go if you sell your property and she didn't really 100% know. So, right. You know, I think it would be really cool to get a Nags Head Museum idea floated out there. It would be. We've got a lot of great ideas. Yeah, we do. How do we get Joe's trying to get us focused on how to, you know, how to move forward? Anyway, um we we have been initially contacting some business owners and and do hope to, you know, potentially in at the August meeting maybe have have some business owners here and have a more open discussion about about that. Great. How about the board of commissioners um feedback? Well, we um I plan on sort of having a more complete animation and and um sort

of running it through rendering software and and kind of, you know, delivering this um presentation to them at the August meeting and and get getting more direction and what their thoughts and um are generally on on the work we've done so far. Good. That that would be helpful, I think. Yeah. Um, okay. So, I think some of the um the additions, if you will, um recommended changes to be permitted as accessories um are interesting. I agree with what you've suggested pretty much. I can't see any. And I think it might be helpful if we gave people some more leeway to do something. And like Molly said, then you know, let them know that there's changes because everyone automatically thinks if you're changing anything, you're taking something away. So we have to Well, I think it would be good for us to try to make it clear that that's not what's going on. So, so you think res you think it would be helpful, Molly, to to encourage residential mixeduse residential? Oh, well, I mean, if that if that would help somebody maintain a recreational business here, willing to car it to keep this this area more as a recreational district. Yeah. And again, I'm, you know, going off of the comprehensive plan and and what it, you know, what our vision was for for this activity center and and you know,

in the there's sort of all the narrative around it being a walkable connected center and so these uses are are allowed as as as well as this sort of commercial mixed use and I included the development here. This uh group development definition means a group of buildings on a single site which are occupied and used for professional offices, retail, professional services, indoor recreation facilities andor restaurant uses. You know, I can see that being outdoor recreation facilities as well and allowing the group development to include an outdoor recreation use and retail for and a restaurant. I think that's a logical allowance for the area based on what the comprehensive plan states and and envisions for the area. Have we alerted the um the visitors bureau that we're that we look at this other we're looking at this sort of protection of the area where they are, you know, would it behoove them for the area to be nicer? Yeah. Um I haven't reached out to them specifically. Um I've I've sort of been in contact with Diane just about sort of the status of the boardwalk, but I haven't sort of said, you know, this great concept, but I you know hopefully with within the next few months if you know if there's support I I can right. Yeah, that would be good. And then renaming it. I mean, we've talked about it before. All joking aside, it just doesn't have a doesn't have a feel for, you know, any name like Wellbound because that's so distinct and beachy sounding like this this area and that's not gonna that's not going to go away even if we connect the two. It shouldn't it you know what I mean? It just needs cool name but court yeah nobody knows what you're talking about when you bring it up.

Yeah. I mean, right. Right. It's clunky. Clunky. Well, I don't think that would ever be the final name for the area, but it is useful for the purposes of what we're doing. Sure. Right. But the sooner you Sure. sooner you rebrand the better in a way. I'm not saying we have to find, you know, but anyway, it's kind of chicken and egg at this point. You know, it's like if if the plan is going to continue in a direction, it'd be neat if there's a confluence of ideas behind a name, right? would be great, right? What did you somewhere in here? I saw that you put like park, park, and stay play all day or park wants to play all day. The pop wants to play all day. Yeah, that's like a amusement park slogan. Stay all day. How about Joe's place to hang out? Um, anyway, I just No, I it but it's I I get that this kind of also feeds into what Molly is saying. If we're going to if it would make it more aesthetically pleasing for that sort of development as with an idea as well, you know, if there's an impetus to this, I think it's a great idea. Those culture and arts folks have a lot of good imagination. That'd be good task for them. I don't not that I'm can assign work, but maybe we could ask them what they think. Come up with Right. I mean, Joe, you're calling it soundside right now basically. Well, and that's we've got what? Yeah. Soundside. We've got the Soundside event site and we've got the Sound I guess it's just the Soundside boardwalk, right? In Nags Head. Soundside at Nags Head or something, you know. We we want to we want to get Nag's head in there. Yeah. I'll let everyone else kind of weigh in on Joe, you know.

Well, the new guy has to name it, Brad. I mean, I think Soundside event site is, but that only kind of incorporates event site itself. Yeah, the event site itself, but the soundside district, it lets even Well, there are people who come that don't know what ocean that is over there. Um, but most people would realize that if it is the soundside district that it's over there, not over there, right? Um, so that's a that's a start right there. Right. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with all this. and coming on um building the adventure park in 2014. That's when I thought that the boardwalk was going to get made, right? So for me, I just think that the focus should be to just get something done like to actually build the boardwalk. I mean, I I thought that it was already decided and it was like kind of beating a dead horse is like we need a boardwalk over there to get people, you know, to get all those connected and then I think your connectivity of like having all the recreation there is kind of going to come like automatic. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you if you have a recreational idea, like I don't know what else we could have. We have the putt putt, you know, have the go-karts at adventure park. I mean, um the event site's like a big open area. So besides like a pool, which I think there was a big um wasn't there a big there was a big poll done by DARE that just came out. My wife was telling me it's like a 100 pages. I wish I would have brought it, but it's been it's been an ongoing issue

forever, I think, as far as having a a public place for people to swim that's accessible to everyone. You don't have to belong to a club or Yeah. The parks the parks and wreck in Kill Devil Hills is just slammed, right? I mean, it's over capacity because everyone on the whole banks goes there, right? And it's like part public, part private. But I think that, you know, we could contribute to that in this town with that specific site because that's really the only spot that's there. You know, you have the tourism board that has quite a bit of money that they I mean, and they they want to boost tourism. Um, and they've got season pickle ball courts going into, you know, so there's there is a lot going on. And I agree with you that, you know, if you build it, they will come. But on the other hand, we don't want to be back on our heels when it happens because if the bid go the bidding's happening now, right, for the boardwalk or just their portion though, right? Yeah, just their portion. But in the meantime, we want the businesses, the recreational businesses that are there to stick to it out and stay while these boardwalks are being built and while these new things are coming. Well, I think that like that is an incentive for them to stay there. Exactly. Um, we don't want to lose them to redevelopment while we're making these plans. Right. Right. Yeah. And I really thought like the magic number for like somebody to travel from somewhere to park their car and get out and have an experience would be like a threemile trek, you know? So like if you could go somewhere with a group of friends, park, get out and walk and exercise for like three miles. So, I mean that could be like a target. Yeah, we talked about that sort of thing, but we never had a a distance, but that probably something to shoot. Yeah. Yeah. Because anything less than that might not draw as many folks. And you don't have to go the full distance, right?

You know, so and then of course if there was some art and some Oh, yeah. All everything else along the way, trees, shade, you know, place to picnic, whatever. Shade and and you know, recent, we're all experiencing the heat. Not today, but you last week. You know, that that definitely is something, you know, how much absolutely, you know, what is it? A shade area experiences a temperature differential anywhere from 10 to 25 degrees, you know, to the other area and people collect where it's cooler. I mean, and having a place where you can get in the sound. I know that that's probably taboo because you have to maybe potentially bring in sand to make a beach or something or you could put some artificial something down just for people about that. Yeah. But you know, Jockeyy's Ridge is mobbed as well. It's exploding with people because it's the only place that you can go and get in the ocean or get in the sand. Yeah. He's Yes, that is I I don't know where everybody stands and I'm kind of putting myself out on a limb, but it's something that I've probably been thinking about for 10 years. Um, so I do have there's a lot of restrictions of what you can do on the on course. Well, well, this is and this is a little bit of where I was going when I when I mentioned to to to Kelly earlier the idea of parks. You know, there's I was thinking oceanfront when I was there, but I was also thinking about, you know, the soundside accessibility. We do have some sites over there. when you do this, is there possibility of creating a kind of a, you know, a parkish adjacent thing and then maybe that becomes something that helps. Um, is there if if it were to go down that road, is that another possible grant maybe adjunct where you could get, you know, somebody throws more money at it if if if we if it was made into something like that. I don't know,

you know, a stretch. Sorry. He might have lost this private property. Well, okay. So, the town does own some property in this area. You know, there is that there is there is that one little sliver where, you know, people sail out of. Um and and you know the question is if there would be some any interest in you know kind of maybe making that into something different you know where it it it becomes a hangout a park a place where people could go and get out of the sun maybe dangle their feet in the water. Um because it there is that there is a beach of a sort. Um it's it's different than the other beach, but yeah. And if if park starts to become something that's used in that, is there any other grant funding bucket that could be accessed? I mean, I think there are grants available like part of grants, even KMA grants. Um, but I I think it's an excellent question for our future update of a parks and recck plan as well as the discussion on the boardwalk which as Bradley said is in our parks and plan and featured there. And I think through that update process, these are hopefully things that, you know, through this process we can vet out and say yes or no and and and have a harder look at that. And and so I appreciate the question and I think it would be possible if there's support Where is that sliver of town property talking about? Talking about the Harvey Harvey. The Harvey Soundside track. Is that what it is? Yeah. There's a couple different spots over there that have been always still there, but there isn't much of a Yeah. There's not much there. It's pretty slim. Yeah.

Right. It's just a little It's kind of in the middle of everything. Yeah. But yeah, you have the kiteboarders. That's like a famous kite boarding spot. People come, but the access isn't so great, right? Because there's no there's nowhere to rig in accessibility. No, there is a place to rig. Right behind Millers, that big grassy field, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's it's perfect. It's just you have to walk through 30 feet of just like mud up to your knees, right? Yeah. It's terrible for the vegetation there to get trampled on like that. So it's making it kind of unstable. And this site is a part of our ASMP um as well. And you know we have received funding to do some um to do a living shoreline here as well. And then um you know keep keep the public access. There's that. Is the other spot on the other side of Yeah. There's another spot just a little ways north of that. Oh, north. Yeah. Are we talking still talking about town owned stuff? Yeah, town owned property. Um corner. Keep going. Yeah, it's um that last lot, that empty lot. No, the next one north. I think it's the one on the sound. Not that far. I wasn't looking that far north. Anyway, it's a rabbit hole, isn't it? That that's not by the town. It's a little zigzaggy one. Um, it's got a dog in it. That one. This is We just looked at County's Millers. I'm sorry.

No, you were just on it at Forbes. It's north. It's north of the eight track right there. Yeah, not really much that's where we originally talked about ending the walkway and having some parking there. How is that accessible? The boardwalk that's not there. Well, no, I realize that has it right now. So the corner is the street comes down right there up at the uh northeast corner I guess. And then old road is a dead end right there. I was kind of looking at this is my house right here that he's okay. That's your house. Okay. Go ahead, Molly. That's my neighbor's house. Is that the same one? That's okay. Cool. I'd like to have that house. Who owns the lot behind that one? Okay. So, we're thinking in we're identifying these. I'm trying to get us back focused. David, you you started talking about what where the town owned property from the standpoint of Yeah. You just, you know, just kind of I there are

there are some policies that are different for parks as compared to just an access. And I wonder if there might be any more opportunities for funding for development if it was labeled as a park as compared to that. And and that that's kind of the rabbit hole I was looking at. Right. Of course, we as you well know, we want to have an actual goal what what we're trying to do other than just funding. Well, and I and I what I what I I was kind of looking at parks policies in this town and there's really not much there. You know, what can what what behaviors are acceptable, unacceptable, etc. And I'm not saying that I'm looking that I'm looking to exclude anything, but I was wondering it's a bit of an opportunity because if you have a vacancy of a policy on what is the difference between a townowned access and a Dowy Park um as far as what you can do other than what we were doing at Dowy Park. So if there was a different version of a park within the town, how would it be? Um, Satderfield Landing has vacant land associated to the ball fields. Is that a park? There's a dog park there. That's a park. So, I what I kind of wondering is if it was um in some areas you have parks where are where visual arts are um are previewed or are a a kind of cornerstone of it. then that makes it something of a gathering area. I feel like that's kind of what I'm looking at. If we build it as that it is associated with the boardwalks, it be kind of becomes a collection point um for people to go to while they're going between these other own properties.

That's kind of where I was. And then it becomes a reason for somebody who has an adjunct property to take advantage of adding on to the extended walkway that's going there because proximity to this yes the value at the value added to their property because of the extension in addition to the walkway. So, you know, it's kind of one of those things and when we start to look at all this land, even though it is disconnected and might not be quite accessible, if we started to do this, maybe, you know, it it becomes something quite different. Dowy Park when we originally did it when I when we were originally pitching it, the fact that we didn't have a plan was seen as a problem. Now, it's created all this opportunity. I'm kind of seeing parks as they exist. if they were are not Dowy Park doesn't have a plan. So maybe what we could do is we could come up with some kind of a a bucket for this and define that as some kind of a a soundside park if you will or ocean front or oceanside or wateride park something. Yeah, it's I know it's a lot, but I I see a lot of opportunity for commercial business to see opportunity including themselves in it because of all of the connections. Yeah. So, what else do you need from us today, Joe? Um, I I mean, I think ultimately whether or not this updated cord priority list um is is is something you guys can say yes, that makes sense or no, it doesn't. Okay. um if there's any of the zoning recommendations included that you would say that doesn't you know thank you for including that

but we don't really think that that should be included as an accessory to a commercial that doesn't meet what we feel you know would really be in line with with the with the area and so I think those are the the two things if this priority list um makes sense. And then if there's anything specific to the flexibility of zoning those those proposed uses um because as it moves along they could potentially end up in testament form. Well, I like the updated priority list. I don't have any disagreement with any of it. Yeah, that's sort of what you're talking about, David. Yeah. On the expansion, including greater mix of uses and stuff like that. Yeah. Support the extension of the boardwalk. Change zoning to increase flexibility. We can't remove any incompatible uses right now, so there's not much point talking about it. And then, um, work with property owners. I mean, there's nothing controversial in there. And I think it's right in giving with what we've been discussing. I think so. Yeah. Priorities. Would everyone agree? Yep. Agree. Anyone have any comment on the uses that I've included to potentially be accessory to commercial outdoor recreation uses. I mean, part of, you know, like the beach recreation equipment rental sales, you know, I don't know if that's if that fits or or not. You know, I'm sort of looking at the comprehensive plan thinking it is retail, you know, but it is sort of beach, but I could see that being, you know, something that's just an accessory to that, you know,

again, allows these adventure, these outdoor recreational uses to have have another thing, you know, an accessory thing that bolsters their business. And that could potentially include uh vehicles, mobility vehicles, golf carts, personal mobility vehicles for those who have limited range of motion, different things like that too because we're talking about a large area. Well, in one point when we had talked about bicycles as well, you know, do we want to make it bikable? Sure. like you're saying, people come down and have a three mile route to walk or whatever, but people might want to come down, rent a bike and ride around. And then the outdoor stands thing, you know, I know that um right now they're allowed to be accessory to shopping centers and developments. Do we want that to be accessory to outdoor recreation uses, you know? maybe a conversation on sort of that versus like brick and mortar. Is that fair? Is that, you know, the way I see it as reading the comprehensive plan is it would maybe make the street a little more interactive. You know, people are driving by, you see an outdoor stand, nothing's as interesting to people as other people standing and being outside and, you know, maybe that's a benefit, but maybe, you know, maybe there's a a devil's advocate side to that as well. My guess is you'll get some push back on that. Do you have any idea why? I mean, what the Well, well, all I can say is I I understand. Well, I think you know, if you can make it accessory use to a shopping center, why can't you make it accessory use to a outdoor recreation business, right? I will say it's important to note right

now, it's very clear the uses that you can do with that. It's prod ice cream, right? It's not this wide variety. It's very specific. I think that has helped in the past. People feel like it's it's not a a threat. Right. Right. That's good. Yeah. Okay. Well, I appreciate those comments and discussion. It was worth the wait. Yeah. Thank you. We're looking to look forward to the pretty thing forward to the pretty thing next meeting and then I really would like to think about maybe a little field trip. We get down there before the next meeting. Um maybe it should be before the next meeting. Huh? While we continue to talk what does everybody think? One of the things that that I find really interesting, and I'm kind of digging into it right now a little bit, is bicycles and powered vehicles. There's a Rubicon across here. And right now, people are taking ebikes, one wheels all over the place. Those things fly and if you modify them, they'll pass you on the bypass. Um, and they're quiet. They're really, really quiet. They skirt all of the rules. They violate the rule. They step on every line. And as it as I understand it right now, the DOT is not limiting any of it. They don't really even have policy for a onehe. If you have a onehe on the beach, are you in violation of town policy? I think you might be because it's a motorized vehicle. Um, if you have a ebike on the beach that's pedal but has an assist, okay, that's the line. if it

is not. So, it's one of these things. So, if we create a space where people can bike, they're gonna ebike. And I'm not saying I'm against it, but I am saying when when it's designed, when you have people walking and people going 25 miles an hour enjoying the breeze, right, it surprises are going to happen. And it's already becoming I've had people get hit and it's awkward because they're like you say, they're silent. Um, I just the other day had somebody have a couple things that look like minibikes on the beach, but they're electric and they didn't see any problem with it. And it's like a that's a motorized vehicle. That's a that's but it there's no DOT standard. There's no town standard for it. So fisherman cruising up and down the beach with fishing fishing rods on that makes all the sense in the world in the offse, but during the summer it's a little different. It's a different kind of Texas out there right now. So, yeah. Well, people coming down from the houses are not looking for motorized vehicles. That's it. So, the question is and you know, so it's one of these things where the bike the the as I understand it the um the trail along the beach road the is that bikes can be on there. Correct. Multi-use path. Yeah, multi-use path. That was just But um could an ebike be on there? Yes. And that to me is wild, especially considering that if you spend a few nights on the internet and wait for UPS to arrive with a package, you now have something. There was a a an a longtime paramedic EMT who worked for Dair County who was had modified his bike and he died of a head injury back in Cington. And you know, so rules don't apply if you don't Well, that's clear they should apply. Ebikes on the multi-use path has been

visited fairly recently. Yeah, they the town did paint in multiple locations all the multi-use path at 10 miles hour max speed or something like that. Yeah. And then, you know, one wheels and etc. Yeah. And you know, just like golf carts have to be street legal, too. And you have speed limit signs on the highway, too. Yeah. Everybody does drive. But anyway, I don't think we're going to So, we now we're getting in the weeds. No, but but it's it is one of these things I think we need to keep clever eye on where that market goes. And maybe if you can't limit motorized bikes, then maybe we don't want bikes in the in the cord. Yeah. How does Duck do it with their boardwalk? Because theirs is fairly wide. Are you allowed to bike on that one? You're not? No bikes. No bikes on the boardwalk. But now if you're talking about trails, you know, connectivity in the whole district, right? Like just right. Oh yeah. I wouldn't think you'd want anybody riding on the boardwalk. We have a hard time with that, right? Absolutely. Much more than the most path. Right. So back to our field trip, Kelly was saying that if we all go together, we have to advertise it. Yeah. So if there's a people, it's considered a meeting. We would have to advertise it. We would have to publish it and literally be there. So we just need to coordinate. Do you all think do you mind doing it? Would you how many people would have does staff have time to take us three at a time or whatever? Three. Somebody has to miss, right? Because we can't have more than Do you want do you want to do a special meeting or do you want to do it incrementally in groups? I think groups makes more sense. What' you say, Molly? Or should we all just go look at it ourselves? Well, that's true. I I kind of It's helpful. I mean to me it's helpful to have staff somebody there because I kind of almost think that staff that makes sense with staff but also in small groups because there's more opportunity for you know for questions if it's a

smaller group whereas I'm I'll keep you busy. I'm sorry to anybody else who goes with me but I'll keep you busy. Um so you know maybe nobody so don't go with David. That's it. Yeah. So if you Why don't you do this and see it's a very busy time of year. We know that. But I mean, if you want to throw out a couple of times that might work for one or both of you, um, then we can see, you know, and if everybody can't make it, everybody can't make it. We can't have more than three, right? I believe, Lily, what's a quorum? Can't be a quorum. So, you know, if you have a couple of and it's not going to go on and on all day. So correct. So so we can't have more than three. So if you throw out a time or two, two or three, you know, and we'll see what kind of response you get and if everybody can't make it or if you know, maybe we won't have any groups of four. Everybody might not be able to make it at any given time. All right. And then we just go down there for half hour, whatever. Nothing long. Just um put eyes on it and talk together. Accidentally run into each other down there. I'm there all the time. Yeah, exactly. Um okay, so we're through that and now we're going back to discussion item number three. Did you want to just mention that Kelly. Yeah. So, at our next um meeting, we're going to have a planning board training. Some of you that have been here for a while may remember those, but we just have the town attorney come in, do a 30 minute training with the board on the roles and responsibilities of the planning board, the types of things you hear, um what types of communication are

acceptable, what are not, what is ethically okay, um just things of that nature. So big picture, what you should and shouldn't be doing. Um, so that'll be at your next meeting. It's going to be Lauren Wle doing that. Okay, great. That'll be good. Back to the court just for a second. I see in the next in the next steps we're talking about having some key stakeholders and property owners here for the August planning board. Is that is do we have enough time to make all that happen? Yeah, I've been initially in contact with them. It's going to depend on their schedule, you know, of course. and also what what the board thinks and and you know whether they like the direction we're going in or not. Um so I would say pending those two things I think it's certainly possible and I will try to make that happen. Okay. Pending the board as in commissioners you're talking about. Yeah. And also their availability if they can't make it they can't make it. Maybe they we can set up a teams thing. You know I if my computer can work make all kinds of things happen. We'll see. Thanks. Will that include the tourism board, a representative from them? I don't see why not. I mean, I think it probably would be a a good idea to have someone just update on, you know, what they're doing generally. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Okay. Thanks. All right. So, now we're on um planning board members agenda. Does anybody have anything for this today? Okay. And I do not have anything on my agenda for today. So I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Can I make a motion? You may make a motion to adjourn. And we are adjourned. We don't need a second for that one. Oh, you are. I don't know when I read it.