Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

There we go.

All right. Hello everybody and welcome to the July 16th, 2026 meeting of the city of Muskegon's planning commission. calling this meeting to order. May I have a roll call, please?

Commissioners Willette-Leroy?

Here. Johnson?

Here.

De La Garza?

Seifert? Garan?

Here.

Heener? Mazade?

Here.

Blake? And Simmons?

Here. Okay, we do have a quorum. The next item would be approval of the minutes from April 16th because it's been a few months since we have met. I would take a motion.

So moved. Support.

Motioned and approved, sorry, motioned and supported to approve the minutes from April 16th, 2026. If I have any comments this time, questions, none, I would take a all in favor.

Aye.

Hearing no nays, pass on the minutes. And the next item we have is a public hearing. It's been a little while since we've been here, so. For the public hearing today, we're going to go over the details. I'll get a staff report, and then I will ask for an update from the applicant if they are present. We will do a first round of questions, and then we will allow some public comment in person and on the phone. So may I have a staff report, please?

Yes. This is case 2026-13, a request to amend the planned unit development at 1740 East Sherman Boulevard for a new drive-thru restaurant building by Shamrock Coffee, INC. The PUD was originally approved for retail and restaurant uses. It initially only contained the strip mall, but eventually outlots were approved throughout the PUD process. The PUD was amended in 2022 to allow a similar type building that never came to fruition. So this request includes an addition of a 2,110 square foot building that will host a Dunkin' Donuts, which will be placed within its own new one acre parcel which we will come up with a new address for. The drive-thru will be located on the south side of the parcel. There's adequate space to stack the cars and enough room for nine vehicles. There will be 23 parking spaces proposed on site. It's currently all a parking lot now. The plan includes a nice landscaping plan and with a variety of trees and shrubs. And a photometric plan with downward facing 100% cutoff lighting, which we require. The developers worked pretty close with us on this and were able to add a lot more green space than you would traditionally see in an outlot building like this. So we believe they did a pretty good job on this.

Thank you. And do we have the applicant here today? If you have any additional comments, please share them with us now.

My name is Matt Cole. I'm with Rosina and Associates. I'm the engineer, so I'm here to answer any questions you have. Staff's been great to work with.

Okay. From your first go-round, any initial questions from the commission before we go to public comment?

Not for me.

Okay. Well, this time is a public hearing, so if I have anyone in the audience who has questions or comments specifically on this item only, please come forward now. Seeing none, I'll go to the phones, 231-724-6721, and we'll give that a minute. For the TV to catch up sometimes, so I give it an extra second. I would also note the joining of Commissioner Keener for the minutes. And seeing we have no one currently calling in, I would take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Moved and supported to close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Hearing no nays, public hearing is closed. Additional, do you, can I take a motion to additional discussion? Yep.

I'd move that the request to amend the plan unit development at 1740 East Sherman Boulevard be recommended to the City Commission for approval. Second.

Moved and supported for the current agenda item. Any additional discussion?

Yes. It's more of the map.

I'm trying to, I couldn't discern the difference in

styling I don't know what that represents on the map here so the parking lot split and one's a solid gray the other one's like a grid line like what's or like a gradient hatching on the north what is shown as the north side of the parking lot yeah on the screen what does that delineate is there a drainage potentially the hatch that looks more like a grid that's where we're just milling and overlaying the existing parking lot we were able to make those grades work then where you see it's dark that's where

The grades had to change, so we'll do a full pavement removal and replacement there. Gotcha. Okay.

While you're up there, just as an aside and curiosity, but I'm wondering if the... that you're representing or Duncan, had they considered, because Frazzoli's right next door, shuttered not too long ago. Had they explored renovating that and using that as operation in lieu of building new? I'm just curious, you know, so we don't have a vacant building next door. If that might be, I'm sorry.

I don't know on that part. I know they got a different arm that kind of looks into acquisitions. So I can't speak knowledgeably on that. I'm sorry.

I mean, that's not the focus of today's meeting, but I was just curious if there was any consideration of that. But otherwise, I don't have any objections to what's been presented today and what you're requesting.

I think I would add that it'd be a good question to add to our checklist of conversation. Have they considered local vacant buildings? Seeing no other comments or questions, I would take a roll call, please.

Commissioner Simmons?

Yes.

Pull it. Sorry. Scratch that. Mazade?

Yes.

Keener?

Yes.

Balram?

Yes.

And Johnson?

Yes.

And Lillette Leroy? Yes.

All right. Motion passes. That concludes our public hearing portion. Congratulations. Thank you for investing in us. And so we do have a few more items on the agenda. The next would be the goal setting, which I would like to continue in depth since we have at least a quorum here today. But there is another item farther on the agenda, and if it's all right with you, I'd recommend we move that to next. So we have a new business item. If we could go back to the agenda portion of that, please. Seeing no conflicts on that, I'm going to go ahead and move that up. So this would be currently listed as new business case. Let me scroll down a smidge. There we go. Currently listed under new business. We're going to move this up in the agenda. Case 2026-14, request for a site plan review for a 14,800 square foot gymnasium addition to the school at 1220 Eastgate Street. And I would ask for a staff report on that.

Muskegon Christian School is proposing to add a 14,800 square foot gymnasium to the school. school building the location of the gymnasium will be placed where the former high school soccer field is located along Madison Street the soccer field is actually located in a separate parcel from the school and should be combined the new parking lot is also proposed to the east of the gymnasium which will include 95 new parking spaces and six landscaping islands the driveways location in relation to Kelvin Avenue is not ideal for the engineering department and will most likely cause traffic delays, so we've suggested a condition on approval to line that up with Calvin Street or Calvin Avenue. An outdoor classroom area will also be installed to the north of the parking lot. You can see a walkway proposed that leads to that from the school. The stormwater runoff area will be located to the north and will also be fenced in. There is not a sidewalk along Madison Street, which will make pedestrian access difficult. And staff is recommending a condition that sidewalk be installed there as well. And this area is part of the Sheldon Park neighborhood and was mentioned in the master plan for a possible improvement connection to the school, the Sheldon Park baseball fields. And you can see the attachments there. And I have talked with the engineering department. And if we can get that sidewalk in, they'd be happy to place a crosswalk over to the park as described in the master plan.

Okay, I would take a motion for further discussion.

I move to approve the site plan at 1220 Eastgate Street with the following conditions. One, a stormwater permit is acquired from the engineering department. Two, the driveway must line up with Kelvin Avenue or be flipped to the other side of the parking lot. Three, a sidewalk shall be installed from the alley along the north boundary line to Kelvin Avenue. and four of the properties, 1220 Eastgate and 0 Madison Street, shall be combined.

Okay, moved and supported regarding 1220 Eastgate Street. Do I have any current comments or questions from the Commission at this time?

Mike, you mentioned the driveway issue with Calvin. Has, I assume that's been discussed with the applicant. Is there any... I mean, is there agreement there with them?

Yeah, we've discussed with the engineer, and they've shared with the applicant, but I'm not sure exactly. what the outcome of that would be, so we probably want to hear from them.

Okay. Can we ask them? Yes, we can.

If you are in the house, you may come up if you have specific questions.

So would the applicant, I guess, like to comment on that condition with respect to Calvin Avenue?

We're fine with moving the drive. Okay.

We have no problem with the drive. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, can you come up to that? One of you come up to the microphone just so that we can make sure to get you on audio for folks at home. Designate your speaker. And then if we could kind of zoom in a little bit on the area in question regarding the driveway, please.

Hi, I'm Nate Scout. I'm the principal at Muskegon Christian School. We have Clifford Buck Construction also here representing. I guess just a couple comments on the requests. Originally, when we had a master planning with Sheldon Park, I had attended their association meeting several times as we went through development of what our campus would look like. We've grown in enrollment significantly more than what we anticipated. So when we went through with Sheldon Park, we did not experience the growth that we have now. So when they had our plan, the gym was not in the current location as what this is. We needed to do a bigger gym and we needed to do the parking lot because of We have twice as many staff as what we did at that time. So when they were requesting the sidewalk in particular, it was with the goal in mind of connecting Sheldon Park to what we had thought would be additional park recreation space. We don't have the land to be able to do that anymore with the addition of the gym and the parking lot. So that's just a little back story, I guess, context. The drive, we have no problem moving. That's not a problem. Madison's a pretty low traffic area. street, having worked there. And I live in McLaughlin. I drive there. I run there. So I'm there quite often. My son plays at Sheldon Park. I'm there a lot. There's not a whole lot of traffic. Combining the properties, we provided or can provide a quick claim deed to that soccer field, which we acquired from Western Michigan Christian about five years ago. We have no problem combining it if you need to. The only thing that throws that into a little wrench for us is it does have access or the second address is where our shed is that funds our greenhouse that supports our hot lunch program. We run a federal hot lunch program. So it's nice for us to delineate those two. Because per those federal rules, we need to have separate banking, separate QuickBooks for our school revenues, and then our hot lunch ins and outs accounts receivable payable. So it's helpful to us to have those separate. Not a deal breaker, but it is good for us. The sidewalk, we are running a tight budget as is. And looking at the numbers, an extra 19,000 just can't fit into this budget. And if you zoom out a little bit, the proposed sidewalk would kind of just end again. So it'd be going along a fence and then ending at a parking lot, which doesn't really, I think, accomplish the goal of four years ago of talking to Shelton Park. So we were not in favor of doing the sidewalk. We can't do it budgetarily. So that's the only thing that we'd prefer not to do, can't do, really, on this.

There is a sidewalk on the other side.

And in frequenting the area, if the sidewalk from where Sheldon Park starts along the east side would continue all the way past the park, that would have one continuous sidewalk along Madison. we even add ours a pedestrian needs to zigzag anyway still so just long term for me it seems more advantageous to continue a sidewalk along where Shelton Park ballparks are and then there's one continual walkway okay just to pause for a moment so we had previous discussion of a sidewalk you are currently stating you are not able to right

provide a sidewalk in your current plan submission. And then there's also discussion of moving the driveway. Can we, forgive me for kind of pointing out exactly where we're moving it to.

That was my question. My understanding, you're okay with that?

We're fine with the driveway. Fine with moving the driveway. You can zoom in on this and you can see the sidewalk on the other side.

With regard to the driveway, when you talk about moving it, is it going to be bringing it into alignment with Kelvin, such as Kelvin's like going right into it, or are you moving it between McLaughlin and Kelvin. Between McLaughlin and Kelvin.

What ages does the school currently serve?

Toddler through 6th grade.

And is your intention to remain in that grade? Yes. So we're not looking at high school drivers into the mix in the near future?

Never. Not on my watch. Bigger kids, bigger problems.

Just give me one second here. Sidewalk was on one of our caveats or was not on one of our caveats.

I think it was on there. I think it was one of the conditions. The sidewalk?

The sidewalk, if you request it, it doesn't even lead to anything.

It would dead end again.

Can we zoom out a little bit here?

So it would be just from that alley. which is essentially McLaughlin on your side.

Yeah, right now the sidewalk ends right at that last house before the alley. And if we were to put in or could put in that additional sidewalk, it would end at a driveway with no public access.

It would end at the McLaughlin driveway. There we go, all the way down.

There's an alley there. There's an alley there.

Okay, so right before the alley.

The engineering's thought was the sidewalk would lead to that alley, and then there would be a crosswalk just before the alley across the street to the sidewalk, which would lead to the park.

So I don't... I personally don't have any objections, and I'd be willing to modify my motion to take out the sidewalk on that side. There is a sidewalk on the other side. We as a city, though, need to, and we've talked about this in the past, complete the sidewalk around Shelton Park, because there's not a sidewalk that goes around the park itself. And so I think that's really important for us to look at, but I'd be comfortable with continuing the sidewalk on the east side of Madison and have that be continuous and then look at how we can connect that. I do wonder, though, if the driveway is moved between McLaughlin and Kelvin versus being right at Kelvin. This is a question for planning and maybe even public safety, but what would be the optimal location for that if we want to put a crosswalk there at the same time, essentially at the driveway? Would it be better to have that driveway aligned right with Kelvin or it's no problem doing a mid-block crosswalk. I do think it is good to have a crosswalk connecting their property with the neighborhood and Shelton Park.

So the engineering department really gave it, put it in their hands, so they're comfortable with either way. So it sounds like the crosswalk would be potentially available either way. However, the crosswalk we were referring to would be farther north.

Yeah, in the original plan, it would be at McLaughlin, essentially, where the alleyway is. That would be where, yeah. And that'd be direct connection to the park, which I do like that aspect. But... Given the concern that we already don't have a sidewalk on that side, and it'd be starting a sidewalk, and it'd be only going like a block, and it'd kind of be an orphaned sidewalk, I understand why...

Yeah, the public works director did mention that. He said that there's not a sidewalk network to connect to, but there are individual paths within the park that it would lead to.

Currently, of your folks who attend your school and what you're anticipating for the next year, how many arrive by foot?

Five.

So are you busing folks in or they're getting dropped off?

They're getting dropped off.

Dropped off. So you're not pulling from the immediate neighborhood.

We have some kids from the immediate neighborhood, but their parents drop them off.

Any other thoughts or questions here?

We probably have 15, 20 kids from the Sheldon Park neighborhood. Their parents just choose to drive them to school.

We're looking at driveway move potential and removal of the sidewalk component.

So I think the only change we would need to make is to number three. Oh, no, because it says must line up or be flipped to the other side. So for the other side of the park.

How best should we modify that? If you wanted to modify it, I would just remove the sidewalks. Leaving that flexibility in for the drive will allow them to... It sounds like they made up their mind, but it could give them additional time to think, and then it's going to have to be approved by staff either way.

So however they choose to present it to us. So with that language, or be flipped to the other side of the parking lot, you see that as being inclusive of what they propose, which is being in between McLaughlin and Kelvin?

Yes.

That would be okay. So then I guess I just need to remove item three. So I amend my motion to... Remove item three and make four item three now, I guess. Yeah. Get rid of the condition for a sidewalk shall be installed from the alley along North Bondry line to Calvin Avenue. Support.

Okay, motion has been amended to be only three items. Correct. And has been supported.

Mr. Francik, can you elaborate on the importance of combining the parcels?

Well, yeah, I mean, you're not supposed to have just a parking lot on a vacant parcel, so that would really kind of tie in the whole property. We can still have a separate address for that other building, though. It doesn't have to be on a separate parcel, so that can remain if you need a new address.

Maybe it just wasn't. We did a quick claim deed. Does that automatically put that in the 1220 address?

No. No. Okay. Yeah, it will be. That was about five years ago. That doesn't do it by itself. It was purchased. The address would not change unless there was a request to combine. The ownership and the address are not relevant. So it technically has its own separate address, even if it's not.

Okay.

If it's not. Noticeable or it's not posted on anything.

Yeah, and I didn't we can I've never seen that address though Cuz I think you said it wanted to be on a shed or something Well, yeah, I guess I've never seen that zero Madison address.

That's what that is Okay, I have a property number, but it doesn't have an actual address assigned to it.

It's called zero We have a Kinsley address for the the shed Is that maybe something you've only used but it's not actually the legal address if you looked into that I It might be how you located it, but it might not be the actual location of the shed. So we can dig into, yeah, whatever's on the...

But yeah, whatever the process to eliminate that zero medicine is fine.

Okay. Where exactly is the shed? Because we only see two parcels.

So... Probably right on the boundary line. Right there.

Oh, there it is. Right there. So that's actually on your 1220 Eastgate address.

Okay.

As an easement. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Yep. Okay.

So that is where that shed is located.

Okay. We have a revised motion on the floor. And seeing no further comment, I would take a roll call.

Commissioners Willett-Laroy?

Yes.

Johnson?

Yes.

Galran?

Yes.

Keener? Yes. Mazade?

Yes.

And Simmons?

Yes. Okay, motion is approved. And so the site plan therefore.

Thank you everyone. Thank you.

Going back, we do have a few other items on the agenda. We are looking at goal setting as a old business item. We had some great discussion on this several months back, but we have had a few meetings that we have canceled for lack of business. So we wanted to make sure to set some time aside to continue this conversation today. So give us a few minutes to kind of reorient ourselves here because there is a lot to review.

We've already tackled number one, so.

Sounds good. We had the fun little chart, if we can kind of roll our way through. There was, if you scroll down, I believe. We were going item by item last time around, way back in April. I'm looking for it, I'm looking for it. Tea rings a bell, but that could be dreaming. What do we call this? All right. We can do a quick scan here as well. Mr. Gowron, I know that you had some specific notes as well. We had gone through and talked through this table a little bit in detail. Do you recall where you had any outstanding questions? You don't recall?

Yeah.

Okay. Can we scroll down a little bit?

Yeah, I think we were down to page 35. Yeah.

Let me know when to stop.

Yeah, T, see? T, I wasn't dreaming. Okay. So we had a traffic volume study. We had a conversation there. Apple redesign is in full swing. That is listed as now. Okay. Let's scroll down to the next page. Okay, right here. Properties.

Okay.

All right, so we were talking about the Shores, Trails, and Greenways Plan. That for specific, we definitely got into that in some detail. How are things going with that? Are you guys actively engaging with those folks? And is there a tracker that we can share with the community on the shore, the Greenways Plan?

I believe the Greenways Plan is complete and it's won an award recently.

And so we have, we incorporated specific elements of that yet on the city side? Because it was a regional collaborative effort.

I mean, bike path expansions continue to be discussed.

We have the one finishing up off Laketon. Is that supposed to be wrapped up this summer? The end of the Laketon Trail.

Lake Shore. I'm looking at the mirror for... I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's the Lake Shore connector down Terrace and Sanford that hasn't started yet, but it is slated to be done. The end of Laketon, there was talk of doing something with the scheme of schools with that trail where it ends at the Nelson property, but there's nothing formal that's being moved forward in that regard. Now the Muskegon area Parks and Greenway Coalition has kind of tangential to that are formed out of the Shoreline Trails and Greenway planning that was done. That organization is moving forward with a request for a millage proposal being put on the ballot at the county level. And that's going to be considered by the county I think next month as to whether or not that goes on the ballot. And that includes revenue sharing with local municipalities. And so that's an opportunity for individual municipalities to use that for their parks or trails system. Similarly for the county, they can use parks or trails system. So that's a revenue source, potential revenue source.

Okay. I just wanted to basically make sure that we have a connection, right, to folks in the city to understand that that's like a plan. they should be able to engage with and track and that we are planning as a city to be very active partners in that. Do we have any questions or issues or comments on this page from you guys? Okay, scroll down. All right, we had the alleys. I despise them. But they serve a utility purpose and so as I understand we've intended from a city perspective to continue to invest in the alleys as a thruway where possible, rather than vacating them, which had previously been discussed during some master planning.

Which neighborhoods are being paved right now? I kind of had a concern about one of the houses in my neighborhood and wondering how they were going to get paved. Because the structure of a lot of those houses they're building over there in East Muskegon, the garage is in the back of the house, but we have no paved alleys at all in those two neighborhoods.

If we're building houses on them with alley access, there's got to be some type of...

It's access, but it's not paved. We've never had paved alleys.

Yeah, I mean, if the... The Public Works Department has a machine that paves alleys, and property owners usually chip in together if they want to have them paved. The city has also paved some with the social equity funds. In the past couple years, we tackled probably 8 to 12 blocks on our own doing that in areas that needed it or are getting a lot of new housing. It's kind of been a collaborative effort between the city taking some and new developers and existing residents requesting them.

Mike, can residents petition the city to have the alleys paved through like a special assessment? It used to be the case, but I don't know.

I think that's still a viable option.

So there's a few different options?

They can either chip in or if they want to go the other route, I believe that's still an option.

We have an updated policy, alley paving policy that the neighbors can petition and they have to get COLLECT SIGNATURES FROM THE NEIGHBORS AND THEN DETERMINE THE CONTRIBUTION. SO IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO THE FORMAL SPECIAL ASSESSMENT ROUTE, BUT THE NEIGHBORS CAN COORDINATE AMONGST THEMSELVES AND HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO CONTRIBUTE. THERE'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT THE NEIGHBORS NEED TO CONTRIBUTE COLLECTIVELY, AND THEN THE CITY WILL COVER THE REST. WHAT PERCENTAGE? I have to pull it up. I'll have to Google it. But there's a mechanism. There are some mechanisms for... There is a mechanism for alley paving, but then also with regard to your area, Vice Mayor, There is, I believe, unless they're no longer operating, a grow operation nearby, which could qualify some of the areas around you for the social equity funding of alley paving. Because what's the radius that we use? Is it within a mile of any of the cannabis operations? A mile. That alleys could potentially, and other public works improvements could be done with funding. So that might be an opportunity as well.

So one of the things I'm hoping to accomplish with this goal review, part of it is just to, you know, extra eyes on things I think is always useful. We've basically been tasked as a commission to be aware of the planning processes throughout the city. And also there's outreach opportunity here. Right. So if we can recommend to folks that we. take the outreach opportunity to educate residents on what their options are in regards to certain things in their neighborhood. For example, if you're not happy with the condition of the alley that is adjacent to you, you do have some options. So I would make that recommendation that maybe our city outreach team take an opportunity to share that updated information with folks if they haven't already. Go ahead, Sarah.

They can access an alley request form right on the website. They can request possible repairs.

Connect with Muskegon or just the cities?

Cities, yep, under the highway section. And there's also the application and alley paving policy on there as well.

Okay.

Yep, and that's what's called alley paving policy. It was adopted in 2022, and it spells out the process and requirements and application and fees and all that.

Some of these things just aren't that sexy or media oriented. So people are going to forget if they don't hear about it again. So just good to share with your neighbors. The other question I had is if we do have vacate alley vacations that occur, you know, my my recommendation is that's a great place to put evergreens in the backs of houses. Then they're not as much of issues in people's lawns. So it's kind of those center blocks.

If we do vacate alleys, those are great places for it.

But we've also talked about mapping them. So do we have a complete inventory somewhere that we can access?

We put one together during the master plan process. It might be a little bit out of date since we've improved some, but, yeah, there's a whole document that went through all of the alleys and ranked them in terms of needs.

I'd like to see it.

Awesome. Thanks.

All right. I don't have any more comments until H2, but we can keep scrolling if anybody has anything.

Well, you jumped over... Where was it? Here we go. We're still on T's? No, it was... Jumped past it. It was up...

Right here.

Yeah, improve access to public transportation. So we didn't touch on that. Partner with Mass to complete improvements to the public realm surrounding bus stops throughout the city. So a while back, I was... had the understanding that Matt's had a bunch of shelters and storage, but not necessarily the resources to install them. So I'm just wondering if that's still the case. They have a bunch of bus shelters and storage, and has the city had any conversations with them about collaborating and getting those placed?

And that's my knowledge.

And part of this, if we might, is just some of these things we don't expect you to have an answer to, but if you could notate these questions, Matt. keep the conversation going because sometimes again just extra eyes on it moves things forward the people were planning to do anyway I will note that there was a bus stop at the end of my street that I reported for a band near graffiti vandalism and the solution seemed to be to remove the bus stop the shelter it was removed so that was on at Muskegon High School and grant And so, I don't know if they moved it somewhere else, but it did disappear.

So the shelter just moved, or the bus stop's no longer there? The shelter just moved. The shelter just moved, the bus stop's still there. Hmm.

So, anywho, worth noting. Anything else on this page before we can move on through?

No, I just wanted to touch on that with regard to the improvements to the public realm surrounding bus stops.

Well, I was just going to say, speaking of shelters in general, when we're looking at the bus stops and in the areas, there's not a ton of shelters at the bus stops. So is that something that they're just doing away with in general to reduce graffiti or damage?

Is there generally a MATS kind of community committee engagement opportunity that you're aware of? And they plan routing and kind of talk about some of those things?

From time to time, they hold public input sessions. I'm not sure what the schedule looks like on that.

Okay. I do know that that's, you know, county-run. So Bob Lukens has always been a good contact, but I'm not sure if he's the current MATS contact.

The director of MATS retired earlier this year. I don't know if they found a replacement for Mr. Coombs. Mr. Coombs? Yeah.

Oh, when did that happen?

Two months ago, two, three months ago, he retired.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Jack Coons? Matt's director. Okay. Or Jim Coons.

Dave, from the audience, just letting everybody know that WIMS, or the West Michigan Shoreline Regional Development Commission, manages regional planning, and they do have a lot of transportation planning opportunities. So it might be one place to check as well. You had a question?

Discussions on transportation authority. I know they began that what, past year? Because it really is up in the air. Is the current system sustainable? Is any system sustainable? And looking for that participation from willing municipalities. Anybody have any information on how those discussions had been going? Will they be coming back in? Because right now I know that at least from conversations or what you see put out in comments by different folks, the county would like very much to divest from their accidental assumption all these decades ago of the of the transportation system.

That's a continuous conversation, it sounds like. I will say that I've also had a conversation whereby some township folks in discussion of housing opportunities might mention, oh, well, there's not great transportation, so why would we put more housing in our township, which is kind of a answer to a which problems do we want to manage which is that you know there's a lack of interest in having housing that might solve certain situations and the excuse is that they don't have good transportation so I think it is part of a bigger conversation just to answer Commissioner Gawron or give some some insights so we did get updates it was the beginning of this year or towards the end of last year but the

a new regional transportation authority that had been explored and moving forward with in the city of Muskegon. We had signed on to one to be a participant in that. And we had officially signed on to it and adopted the rules of incorporation and so on and so forth. And one other neighboring municipality had indicated their interest in participating. I don't know if they actually signed on to the Articles of Incorporation yet. Another larger neighboring municipality was unwilling to sign on to it to move it forward so it could be put on the ballot for then the voters to decide. And so it was decided, at least the city commission discussed it. It was like, well, we're not going to do this alone. And so it has been set aside, essentially. I mean, it's no longer a regional authority if it's the city of Muskegon doing it alone or if it's just the city of Muskegon Heights doing it. It has been set aside. The dynamics on the county board have shifted too in recent years, part of the impetus. Some of the folks that were maybe leading the charge of the county divesting that are no longer at the county boards. The dynamics shifted there, and the question was then, well, does the county now have an appetite to continue maintaining it and making any adjustments for its sustainability and to better serve our community? And part of that, as I understand it, is that right now they are going the track of it will continue to be operated under the county, but they are looking for the municipalities to kick in more money. And that's going to be, I don't know where that stands in terms of to what extent municipalities are going to be kicking in more money and how much.

Those two communities, correct, they just completely blew it out. One had... Willing to participate if we have to kick in money for the county.

They are contributing something now because each municipality contributes something. But they didn't want to participate in a standalone regional authority that would have created a new millage to support it. They didn't want to move that forward. And so the best person to speak to from the city to get insights and updates would be our deputy city manager, Leanne Mikesell. She was the point person at the city working diligently on that. And so it's something that the greater Muskegon community still needs to, you know, wrestle with and get our arms around in terms of ensuring that public transportation is sustainable, but also operating optimally to serve our community.

There's just so many storm clouds, especially because, you know, it's the lion's share that funding has come from super governmental funds like the federal government.

I will just add that I've been doing some work on social determinants of health recently. And for folks who work in health care and social services, they may be aware of that. But essentially the concept that the things that you encounter in your life outside of your actual health oftentimes very much impact your health. And transportation, access to transportation is definitely one of them. interacts with things like even, you know, the ability to access all of the great parks and places that we, you know, we've been focusing on quality of life. And transportation is at the very bottom of the things that people need in order to improve their own quality of life. So I think it's very important when it comes to planning and that we really should not let the conversation die just because something doesn't individually impact someone. So I would continue to keep it on the list wherever possible.

You know, selling it to the general population, but I think we have to keep it in the forefront.

I will just use this as an opportunity to promote the city's shoreline shuttle or beach shuttle that we have. It's returned this year. It's the second year. We have two different lines, one running from Jackson Hill and then going through downtown, Camp Bell and Nims neighborhoods, then Lakeside, then out to Pier Marquette, and that runs back and forth Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. It is free for riders to use. It is 12 to 8 Friday and Saturday, 12 to 6 on Sunday. And then there's also a line at the Tan Line. So that's the town line that goes from Jackson Hill to the beach and all the spots in between. Then there's the Tan Line that runs from Cruisy Park to Harbortown Beach and all the different parks, Lake Michigan Park, Pure Mercap Park, Margaret or Kelly Park, Beachwood Park, Silverside. So all the different spots in between. And so that's operating and it's free for use. And I... for residents, for guests. And when I did my office hours on the shuttle last month, I found one of the people that was on the shuttle was someone who works at the DAC, and he takes that from downtown. That's one way for him to get to work. And so it serves a lot of different people in different ways. And we pay for that through our paid parking program. And we are... This year we did some limited requests for sponsorships and next year we're going to be doing some more so we can further defray that cost. But we do have some sponsors that are supporting that shuttle as well to help defray the cost.

How has the usage for the shuttle been? I saw the addition in the Jackson Hill area. I haven't necessarily seen anyone jump on.

Yeah, we moved it this year, so it was in Jackson Hill last year, but it was at the Smith Ryerson Park, and it wasn't widely used, and now it's in a more visible location right there on Marquette at Amont Park. And so I think we're seeing a pickup in use there, but we need to be promoting it because a lot of people just aren't aware of it still. And so we need to be promoting it, encouraging people to use it, and then give us feedback because we want to improve it. And this is the second year and we want to maintain it and improve it. So we need feedback.

You know, there's a stop not too far from where I live and there's a good number of people there on a fairly regular basis on the weekend. So it seems like it's getting.

At least leaving the beach. You're seeing them coming to, to the beach or not.

The town line is the one that goes to all the beach stop. That's gets a lot more use in the town line. So people are, parking at one spot along one of our parks and using it to get to the other parks there. But we'd like to encourage.

And the maps are available for general public. They're available online.

And we contract to mats for that service. And like Vice Mayor was saying, you can find that online. You can do your itinerary and find out when the next bus is arriving.

Our shuttle is arriving to push that through, you know, outreach channels. The one thing I would suggest, I'm a big fan of field trips. So if you have not had an opportunity to basically take public transportation within the city of Muskegon, the county of Muskegon, take the opportunity to do that. I think especially as decision makers to understand what it's like. And I say this all the time to folks in the city commission, like do ride alongs. It's the same thing with transportation. Do a ride along. Give yourself an afternoon ride. park yourself somewhere and see how would I get somewhere else in town like what is life like for folks because we have to consider all of those I'm gonna scroll down a little bit to H so we are in this is specific to housing and neighborhoods and each 2.4 I have a comment at the end of the page does anybody have any questions or comments on this page so far

I have a question. So there's a development on Jackson Hill. My neighbors. Are they doing that anywhere else? There's a... How many duplexes? Four in the front and then like four single homes in the back. Is that the nurse? Is that pivotal?

What is the question? I'm trying to understand. Are they doing that anywhere else? So you're trying to say is that type of development replicated elsewhere in the city?

I haven't seen it anywhere else.

Yes, duplexes are becoming increasingly popular and so are accessory dwelling units. The past couple of commission meetings, we've approved either duplexes or single families with accessory dwelling units in the back.

The old Hackley Fire Station, right? That property? It's duplexes.

Are they? So it's like... What was that?

The old Hackley Fire Station.

Yeah, those apartments. Yeah, the apartments there. Yeah. Well, they're duplexes. They're duplexes.

I haven't saw any like these where they have one driveway and then they kind of can... Okay, I haven't seen any.

You'll be seeing a lot more.

Oh yeah?

They're on their way.

So part of this goes back to the alleys and my disdain for alleys has to do with when they are not well used. I think they become a liability. And so the intention with a lot of the access, you know, trying to infill housing is requiring folks with more than one unit to have access to an alley so that they have more access to the building as well, right? So at least duplexing up has to access. They have access.

The triplex have to have rear access.

Before, for sure, it's going to have some type of off-street. It doesn't bother me, well, yet.

I'm getting the fence, so.

I mean, sometimes fences make good neighbors. That's okay.

I just got my facts in place.

I can make recommendations.

Yeah, sometimes senses through the proper channels are useful.

But the bottom line is that type of development is now appropriate. That was the question. Okay. It's citywide. Okay. That can be done everywhere. Okay. With the zoning reform that went through in 24.

And can that even be... We'd like to see it more across the city. And can that even be done on... That can be done on your own residential property.

It is a use-by right now that you can put on a... For ADU. A duplex and ADU, yep. I would like us as a city to be more proactive in promoting that opportunity for our existing residents. I mean, a lot of what we've been doing is infill with vacant lots, but helping our existing residents, property owners to understand that, hey, you have this opportunity to do a duplex or add an ADU on your property. so that now you are helping us with the housing situation, housing crisis, but also creating an income stream for yourselves and increasing equity for yourself. And so I would welcome us to promote that.

So essentially... All we need to do is reform the financial system in the United States.

Historically, we were a city with very large homes at one time, and then those homes, again, became a liability because folks couldn't manage the homes that they had inherited or acquired. However... And so they became duplexes, triplexes, what have you. But then there was a time at which that became its own problem and we reversed course. But we definitely are back in the space of we need housing units. And so folks, if you have a large home and you have the capacity to contract for it to become a duplex, it's certainly something that you should consider.

It's working pretty good as of right now.

Anything else on this page which is specific to Housing and Neighborhoods Housing Choice. So we have, again, considering land uses, we talked a little bit about extra lots, I think. We had some conversation about wanting to make sure that we weren't allowing lots to languish. And so we have made a lot of those available. But do we have a mapping of the remaining unbuildable lots?

Buildable lots?

Unbuildable lots.

All of the lots are on the city's website, whether they're buildable or unbuildable. There's not very many unbuildable lots anymore because we've changed the standards.

That's good. And so, again, just an item for outreach. More things are buildable than they used to be. There are a few things remaining. And so creative ideas, I think, are also always welcome to make our community vibrant. I had a quick item on H2.4, which was, how are we encouraging in all of this infill and building architectural diversity? Because I will note that the default sometimes is to build things quick and make sure that we're getting things out into the market, but also making sure that we have some standards and access for being a diverse and interesting place.

Well, the number of developers we're working with

is a lot.

So they're all bringing different designs to the table. Some of them do propose similar houses within the same block. And when they do that, we simply ask them to kind of change that up a little bit. Maybe make the porch a little different. Use a different type of siding or maybe some different types of windows that kind of differentiates them some. But if you pay close attention to a lot of these neighborhoods and you see some of these older homes that have been there for 50, 60 years, you kind of see the same thing. This isn't exactly new, but it is something we try to make sure that we're not just getting the same cookie-cutter house. Working with the amount of developers, and some people who don't even consider themselves developers, they're just local residents taking a shot at it, having that diversity there really helps us have a bigger diversity of housing types.

would like to see developers really pay attention to the neighborhoods and have houses that fit the neighborhood because this house in our neighborhood is so out of place and um it's a it's an eyesore for a beautiful home but it's an eyesore for the rest of the residents that have been there for almost 20-30 years and even for a lot of our residents in those neighborhoods that have just begun to start moving over there and making friends and building lives there. Because I thought at one point we had talked about having homes that fit the neighborhood, not necessarily that old 70s style or whatever like that, but at least looks like it's part of the neighborhood.

Well, I mean, that can be challenging, especially now with the smaller lot sizes. not going to see a lot of ranches on a 30-foot wide lot.

Because I've seen some throughout the community that are probably about three bedrooms still, but it's just the way that they're built backwards instead of taller. And I mean, this is like such a crazy eyesore. It's ridiculous. Really? Yeah. Every house in our neighborhood is like this, and this house is like this. And it's the only... But it's literally the only one.

I think I know which one you're talking about. Are they doing, like, the bricks in front right now? No, no.

I live in Austin Street.

I know where you're at.

It's literally, we're all right here, and this house is way up here. And it's the one house in the entire neighborhood.

I mean, we'd have to make some pretty drastic design criteria changes to not allow two-story homes in certain neighborhoods. If that's something we want to explore, we can do that.

Some of it's just, you know, about kind of putting forward the, you know, again, design desires, right? I mean, letting folks know, hey, we want to be a city that does X. And you'll find that if you go to certain communities, their McDonald's looks an awful lot nicer than somebody else's McDonald's because they're very specific. But the other way is also to just basically give people, you know, the freedom to say, be creative, but also, as folks were talking about earlier, talk to your neighborhoods and figure out what works here and what would encourage more investment. So I think there's kind of two ways parts to this one is to consider what was just going to stand out and look really strange but also on the flip side you you want to encourage creativity and say what if we did things different you know we have a developer in town who's doing a lot more you know what almost seems like mid-century modern design you know it's very angled um but they're they're bringing a lot of they're putting it here there and everywhere so eventually it's just not that one it it begins to have its you know it fits more so there's a little else i think you

We also have to take into consideration building costs. I see all the residential houses, and they're not cheap to build. Yeah, that's true. So unfortunately, some of those things come into play with architectural windows, porches, just adds expense. And then they have to up the price of the house when they sell it. So it's been tough for a lot of them.

I'm glad to hear, though, that we are at least having the conversation, right? When you see there's four houses, they're exactly the same. at least make them different colors, right? At least consider maybe changing the elevation a little bit so there's some diversity of site. Because I'm from Metro Detroit, and I didn't even realize how much tract housing I was surrounded by as a kid. Because over time, people make the house their own. They change it a little bit, right? But they were definitely all the exact same houses.

Except a lot of our builders who are building buy trust packages. So they're buying it in bulk so that they can build cheaper. So you can't really go smaller on the next one, more taller, and change those types of things all the time. So it gets tough for sure. Cost is definitely a factor.

That was my only item on the H page. If you guys don't mind, I'd like to keep going at this for a little bit.

I don't know if anybody has any strong places they have to be, but I'm willing to put a little bit more time into this today.

I had H5. So anything above that, we're looking at walkable community nodes. land use regulations to permit better integration at those particular nodes, new development to provide identified public amenities for existing and future residents. Any thoughts there?

I don't know. Which one are you on?

I'm just generally looking at the page. I don't have any notes until 5-1.

Okay, because I was curious about the last sentence of that first highlighted. A city staff is developing pre-approved housing plans that developers can utilize. So I was wondering where we're at with that, having templates on file that developers can come in and be like, hey, here you go, to make it easier and reduce that cost that we were just talking about for housing construction.

It's still in the works. We haven't been able to roll that out yet. Eventually going to get an RFP out there, but... Again, we're still kind of working on that.

I think it's, as you mentioned, some folks who don't consider themselves developers. I do think wherever we can make things, you know, hey, you don't have to be a house designer. Here's some things that we know work. I think that will open up people's entrepreneurial opportunities a little more.

To that point, have we used the MML's design book as a reference?

I know that they had to change some of the houses that they were showing on there because the cost to build them was astonishing yeah I noticed that they had it some smaller house designs which were pretty nice and they are they're out there for cities to use Grand Haven's using them

so there are places because i know they and i'm trying to think who else has and again not to fully adopt it but you know as a template i i i gotta go through some of my files and because there's uh other agencies uh that put out their design book um so that this this very question you go to the planning department you don't have to scratch your head and

I need to build a deck. It's way too much research. I don't regularly build decks.

Here's a bungalow. Here's a Cape Cod. Here's a mid-century modern. It's the whole plan book, and they can just get it from the city planning department.

Then we get into a little bit here about neighborhood association involvement. It looks like you guys are holding the group meeting of all the neighborhoods here at City Hall so far. There was mention of the neighborhood empowerment grants. What types of things are those generally funding these days?

We have put, well, so last year we didn't have the additional funds to allow for special projects. So they will still get their standard grant monies to hold events and do those types of things. But a lot of times if we do have the additional funds, they can request for special projects. So neighborhood signs, updates to signs, Lakeside asked for money to update the garden at times, things like that. Sam and I worked on expanding the grant opportunity for the beautification part. Um, so now we have it set up where they can request beautification funds because we don't offer the Home Depot card program anymore. We did that last year or the year before.

Yeah.

Um, so they can request a meeting with Sam and I to set up a program where They can request like $5,000 and use that money to help the neighborhood residents shovel sidewalks so they can have volunteers, much like the Adopt-A-Lot program. You have a volunteer who's available to shovel And the neighborhood asks them, they can pay them $20 to go shovel someone's sidewalk or driveway at their request, or mowing, different types of things, tree trimming. So we figured that money could help the neighborhoods, but also kind of cut down on ordinance enforcement too that we get slammed with each season. So far we have three neighborhoods taking advantage of that. So we'll see how that works.

And so do you think the other folks not taking advantage of it is because there isn't an awareness of the opportunity or there's just a lack of organization around?

It's um it was include so there is a information added to the grant app itself and then we added in a KIND OF LIKE AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN WITH OPTIONS ON HOW THEY WOULD GO ABOUT DOING IT, WHICH WAS ALSO INCLUDED. SO IT GOES TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TREASURER PRESIDENT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DO WITH IT.

DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE NEXT APPLICATION PERIOD IS?

IT'S IN 2027.

SO AGAIN, KIND OF FROM AN OUTREACH PERSPECTIVE. re-remind folks, you know, that they have that opportunity. Is there opportunity for each neighborhood or is there a smaller pool and kind of a first comes first serve?

It just kind of depends on how much money we have left over and what we can distribute and how much they're requesting, really. We did have a little bit because we'd sold so many lots and we don't need as much money in the adopt-a-lot fund. We did have some more free. So I believe there is still funds available for next year. So we can definitely see how the neighborhoods work right now with what they've requested and how smoothly it goes.

Did we discontinue the Home Depot cards because of funding or because of interest? Okay, just last one. Because those kind of small pocket pieces, kind of like infilling, allows people to do landscaping of things that maybe you rent, but you can put some bushes in your front yard and that makes everything feel more like home. So I'm very much pro that, especially in the neighborhoods that I frequent. Anything else on this page? Not seeing any. We'll scroll down there a smidge. I didn't have anything here, so I'll let you guys scan real quick if you haven't already read it. This talks to H6.3, talks to your duplex about continuing that, as we did with the recent code changes. And there's a lot of schools that are expecting to have renovation coming in the near future. Do we have any update on the Nelson School redevelopment?

We're in contact with them now. They want to change around their landscaping plan a little bit. they provided an incredibly detailed landscaping plan to begin with which I was a little surprised and they want to scale that back which is actually fine but you know they continue to work on it and I believe they're looking at getting started here before the end of the year okay are they looking at taking the hold and I you know I don't want to spend much time on it but it's a very large notable you know building in town are they intending to kind of bite off the whole thing or do they are they doing it in phases I believe it's all just one phase. Okay.

Oh, I know, has the city started using the gymnasium yet? We did an agreement to use that as a cooperative park situation, and I thought that was pretty interesting.

I'll have to look into that.

You don't have to know all of these things right now.

Yes, I will definitely have to look into that one.

The agreement's been adopted. I don't think it's effective until this fall or winter. It's later this year. I'm not certain if they've closed on the property yet in terms of buying it from the school district.

Okay. We have had some micro-forests. That's kind of called out in here. Rotary has done those in a couple locations. I've been to one in North Muskegon, but there's also one now in Marquette. The idea here is basically to put a whole lot of variety of plants in one place and kind of build a small ecosystem for the neighborhood.

Was there a recent other project? A microforest project?

So I know there's one on Marquette that's in the city, and then there's one at the North Muskegon Nature Preserve.

That's what it was, okay.

And that's the one I've had a chance to walk through. But the one on Marquette is, you know, just kind of right there at the corner of 31 and Marquette.

That's a great project.

And then we also had, you know, I really just like maps. Sorry, guys. We were supposed to do a tree inventory, and I heard that that was good and done, and Where can we find that?

Forestry? DPW?

Basically an overview of all the trees that our city owned so that we can kind of get a real sense of what we have, what we don't have, the variety of species and what the management requires.

Yeah, we have a forestry department.

Yeah, the data's available. We shared some of the highlights in our last newsletter, the spring newsletter. I think Oak was the highest by far. I want to say that like 40% of the trees, the public trees, were oak. And it's suggested that no species makes it more than 20%. Right.

Because between the oak and the maple and because of the blight and everything. And then, of course, NIMS lost dozens upon dozens of 100- to 200-year-old oaks two years ago.

With the ash borer? Oh, okay.

So...

Some trees, like an oak tree.

For our neighborhoods, I think it's really important to find appropriate plantings for the public right-of-way areas. For one thing, to cool down the streets. Secondly, for every tree you plant, you increase... the value of a person's property exponentially. Now it's just a matter of getting buy-in from the actual residents to help care for the trees and keep them watered so they're not dying.

We still have a street tree program. Is there a cost for that to the homeowner?

When new houses are built, we require a tree be planted in the front.

The city was just promoting it, actually. I think it was on social media and somewhere else that if you want trees, you know, planted on your, your terrace, you know, here's how to reach out.

Um, plant is available.

Um, and as you were talking about the oak trees, some of the species and the reason that we talk about this is like some of the species affect other things, right? So an oak tree oftentimes overshadows whatever's beneath it. And so it's hard to get other trees to grow certain things. Like I've got a black walnut kills everything else, right? So when you plant those trees, just having some basic awareness of, the species that are native and good for your own property in your neighborhood.

Norway maples, which are a killer.

We would like to see elm trees.

Elm trees? So my point is, I think just some of these things are outreach opportunities, right? Like they don't necessarily need a specific change, but just helping people be aware who might not naturally be people who are interested in trees. Like what are the types of trees that do well in our city? What do better in, you know, more... road pollution prone, right? Where they're going to get a lot of, you know, they're going to get salt or sand or things thrown on them.

Just to clarify because I misspoke, it was in our 2025 annual report that was published earlier this year in the spring, late winter, early spring, that the highlights were in there. And it's actually maple that is the highest species. It's 40% of the city's, it's not just street because it's in our, you know, parks and cemeteries. So it's all Publicly owned, we did inventory of over 15,000 city-owned trees, and 40% of them were maple, 18% were oak, 4% elm, 3% apple, 3% pear, and 3% honey locust.

And so how many of those are evergreens? I don't think any of those are evergreens. Exactly.

That's what I'm just trying to say.

Come February, you're going to notice a lack of trees. All right. I don't have anything else on trees. Anybody have anything on natural features on this page that they want to talk about? Nope. I don't have anything until N1.

I do wonder about the Go On, Protect the Quality of the Muskegon Lake Watershed. I didn't see necessarily reflected in, because you said you numbered your priorities for the year, and I don't really see that reflected in the priorities. There's kind of a reference to it in terms of landscaping or vegetation, but I didn't see that incorporated into the actual numbered priorities anywhere. Are we just not going to make movement on that?

Which one was that?

Protect the quality of the Muscatine Lake watershed.

Oh, I mean, I'm all for adding that if that's what the commission would like to do.

I think that's important, particularly as we have been delisted as the Great Lakes Area of Concern and we are having a community celebration next month on August 15th about that delisting and also that we continue to see algal blooms, harmful algal blooms, other issues that it's important that we stay focused on protecting our watershed.

You know, awareness sometimes is needed but the part of it is basically that especially we talked to kind of last lack of funding we have had the the downside of having legacy pollution but also the benefit of having you know historic investment in our lake in response to that in our lifetimes and so I Unfortunately, we can't always expect that going forward, and we have to build a culture and an awareness and an outreach of what people can do to prevent. We're not expecting to have that large legacy industrial pollution, but there's a lot of other ways that you can pollute the lake. And so we do need to make sure that we're making folks aware of cleaning out their storm drains, not putting things down the drain, planting trees. There's just a lot of simple things that we can do to have quality of life and have a swimmable, fish-eatable environment. boatable lake, among other things. My item on this one had to do with buffers in that same vein. We looked at N1.1 there, land use regulations that will help filter and clean water. You have now. So I think that it's kind of incumbent on us to talk about what our buffers can and should be in a very clear, articulated way for developers so that we're not, you know, begging folks at the podium here to think about it, and it's an expectation that there be buffers between a direct body of water and anything that can go into it. It's pretty simple.

I will share in that vein that the City of Muskegon is working with WMSDEC, the West Michigan, Charlotte Regional Development Commission, in pursuit of a state grant for... BIOS whales and rain gardens going in at the 3rd Street wharf property as part of our development into a green space and waterfront park there. So we've committed some matching dollars to that and Winsterdick is leading the pursuit for the grant application and we're contributing the matching for that. So hopefully we'll see So glass, wheels and green infrastructure.

Yeah, leaving by example there for sure. You know, the city owns waterfront property and the county owns waterfront property. And so having, you know, good partnerships there. Heritage Landing is going through a master planning, you know, redo. So folks putting an input and thinking about what they might like to see closer to the water would be good as well. But yes, I think we need a very clear buffer ordinance. And I'd like us to talk about that continually. Anybody else on this page? I think we'll see if we can make it through to 5.30 and keep everybody awake.

You're back.

Okay. Can we scroll down a little bit? Oh, sorry, I had N2.2. What was that? Back up. I appreciate you guys being Vanna over there. So our carrying capacity study for Muskegon Lake, I think that comes back to the watershed management plan, which is something we've continually tried to seek funding for through WMSRDIC, that regional planning organization, and has not have yet been successful. But a carrying capacity would be basically recreational and commercial boating as we build more and more marinas all around the lake there is a question of not only is there a point at which you have too much but simply how do you manage the increase in traffic for things like awareness of all sorts of things from safety to pollution potential and And so just being really aware of what it means to grow, not only residentially on the land, but we are growing into the lake. We are filling the lake in with users. And we need to just consider that as something to plan for. You guys got anything else?

I think we can scroll down to the next page.

Let's see if Ken makes it back.

We're going to go to 538.

I have 3.1, which is one up somehow. All right, there. There we go. Wildlife corridors, natural pathways. So we talked about the microforest. That would be an example of a wildlife corridor that's been created on an empty lot. And then talked about the tree inventory.

I think I'm good there.

Ryerson Creek is one that we've been working on pretty actively and informing neighbors that that is a pathway that is underutilized. So there's a lot of opportunity there to build Greenway through Ryerson Creek. If anybody hasn't ever taken a walk down there, I recommend it. It's very overgrown, but there's a lot of opportunity for a trail that goes almost all the way down Ryerson Creek from Home Street, Getty area all the way back to the lake. And so there's a lot of opportunity there for quality of life. People, I think, in that neighborhood a lot of times don't even know what they could have in their backyard because it's very hidden and kind of buried down there. So that's something that groups I've been participating in have been working on. As of now, the city's acquisition of property is still in the air, right? We haven't yet acquired, even though we've put out some strong interest to acquiring the rest of that greenway. Any thoughts over there, Mike? Do you know about the status of the parcel on Oak?

Could you help me remind?

There is a parcel, the one missing parcel for us.

I heard something from the... Oh, yeah.

So there's a lot off of Getty that has... waterfront Ryerson Creek frontage. It is open space, so you can't develop along the waterfront, but the upland... 808 Oak?

Yes. The old celery farm?

Yes, that one.

Is that still for sale?

Do we know? It is open to...

Okay. Oh, Jasper. Okay, he bought it. I have not had any conversations with him.

My last understanding is that we were trying very actively to engage and that we were struggling to get engagement from the property owner because it's basically this little missing link and the ability to really plan for a greenway along Ryerson Creek. So I just want to keep that strong interest noted. All right. I have a few more things, but I don't think we have to get to them today. How many more pages do we have of these goals so we know whether... That's it. That's it. Okay. Well, then, while we're at it, we were going to talk about signage at one point, so we can at least maybe bring that up and be prepared to think through it if we're not going to talk about it in full today. Updating the signage ordinance... Has there been any internal discussion, basically, about what that might look like? Or should we come back to you with where we think it's lacking?

What was that last part?

Or should we come back to you with where we think that that signage ordinance needs revision?

I would love input. It's just an old part of the ordinance, and I think the numbers were just kind of pulled out of hats. I think it works fairly well, though. but if we have any ideas on what that looks like.

What are the most common complaints that you get about science? Not you specifically, but generally.

I don't know if I get any from businesses. I know staff doesn't like reading through the code and trying to pick out through 20 pages, so making it a little... Easier to understand. Will it be more enforceable? Yeah. A lot of times we get sign companies who've been in the business for 30 years and probably should have a better handle on it. Don't, and maybe part of that is because it's just a little confusing to look through.

So the things that you would incorporate in that sign ordinance is basically where signs can be located, what size of signage can be located. There is a freedom of speech component in signage that we do our best not to engage with. But basically where and the size and the type of signage, whether it's lit or not lit or encroaching on somebody else. Those are the things that are big issues. For me, sometimes it's simply timing. Like you put up a sign that has a purpose. And so if that purpose is no longer valid, that sign should no longer be in existence. We have a lot of temporary signage that just kind of hangs out well past its intended purpose.

That's something we need to address now. The ordinance does have a standard about 15 days. We have a lot of businesses push back on that. And then we get, you know, we get into some agreements where, you know, we may let them stay or if you take them down at night, maybe we'll let them stay. It feels like there should be more clarity on how that works.

And part of it comes down to, you know, a fairness, right? So signage is an investment for businesses, and I think any business worth their salt would want all the signs everywhere all the time so that you would know about whatever it is that they're engaging in.

Yeah, that's actually a big problem. We have some businesses that want to put up as many signs as possible, and that actually ends up hurting you. If you have, like, a strip mall development with six businesses and each one has their own sign... And then there's please slow down signs everywhere. And then there's we're having a sale this weekend signs. And then you have a couple of the teardrop signs. Nobody's looking at anything at that point.

I love a good sign. Y'all know that. It's right next to maps and things that I enjoy. But they really need to have a purpose. They need to be clear. They need to be readable so that they're useful. And they need to not detract from... Or take it down after the event. Exactly.

Because things are still up a year later or two years later, which we ran into in the 90s when it became really restrictive because it became... ugly. I mean you couldn't even see a person's storefront because of the number of signs that were plastered on signs from five years prior.

This week I ran into some signs in some of our public parks that I'm quite sure nobody asked for permission for and I will be removing forthwith.

This is just funny and interesting as it pertains to signs and why bigger and more signs do not work. Burger King went out of business, you know, across the street. They removed all of the signs. Ten cars a day still go in there. Easily. And so that's a pretty big indicator, the giant signs. Whether they're there or not, don't stop people from pulling in.

Sure. People do things out of habit.

Habit, too. Yep.

So there's... Do we have anything in our signage in regards to billboards? Or are those identified separately?

We have a billboard ordinance.

As a separate ordinance? Yes.

Which is fairly outdated. And we've looked at it in the past. I don't know if there's any desire to allow more or less.

Well, I think I find them to be an effective form of advertising, to be frank. I see billboards. But again, you see billboards that have had the same content because maybe they haven't been resold.

so that that sign is now faded right or it's again you can't read it so it's not you're you're straining to see what's happening and so that that's distracting as a driver it seems to me that with respect to signage or anything i got any of our existing ordinances is you know if we're if we have issues with it then we should look at modify it, but just because we've had something in place for a long time doesn't necessarily mean that it's outdated or not useful. But, Mike, you've touched on a few things that have been problematic, and I think those are things we should try to address.

Okay. So if we have any specific suggestions or issues, sounds like we should share them.

What I would request is could we be... Directed to the signage ordinance.

And the billboard one where we're at.

Yeah, we can sign out the links.

Yeah, just the appropriate spot. Sure. I'm going to look at it. And then for some of us, you know, going back in ancient history, that would be a good review and talk further on. observations and what we're experiencing but it's just little things you know like temporary signs that aren't temporary like here you know motorcycle festival and you know they're still welcoming people in on some of those signs from 2022 um yeah it's uh nothing ever comes down on you know fences or flapping in the wind at the corner bar. It's just unsightly for the city. But I have to extend my regrets. I must be going.

That's fine. I'm going to suggest basically that we come back to the signage ordinance at our next meeting and ask all of us to take a look at it in the meantime. I would also quickly note that attendance at these meetings matters. It's a privilege and I realize that no one's getting paid to be here, but that we need folks to be here so that we can conduct business on behalf of the city that we've been appointed to do. So thank you for making some time today to go through these goals. We do have a public comment section and I want to make sure that we get to that.

Do we want to actually formally adopt these goals?

I think

We're still talking through them. Do we need to do that, you think, specifically in a motion sense?

Yeah, the redevelopment ready communities requires us to have a list of goals. I mean, they can be fluid. We don't have to. They can move around.

So basically these seven goals that you've put forward, we're asking whether these can be the goals. I think they're pretty comprehensive. Like, you know, you've given us the list of the ITEMS TO BOTHER YOU ABOUT IN DETAIL, BUT IN GENERAL, THESE ARE REASONABLE GOALS TO ME FROM A HIGH LEVEL. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THESE GOALS?

WE NEED TO ADD WATERSHED.

ADD WATERSHED AS A SPECIFIC GOAL OF THE SEVEN?

MAYBE SWAP THAT OUT FOR NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY DONE THAT.

BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY DONE THAT? OKAY. WELL, I WOULD TAKE A MOTION FROM YOU. WE'RE ASKING IF WE CAN MAKE THESE OFFICIAL GOALS.

WHAT WAS THE LANGUAGE IN THE Uh, let's see. So I guess, yeah, include protecting the quality of Muskegon Lake watershed. We'll just put it that way as a priority. Um, okay. Then, um, I moved to adopt the 2026 planning commission goals as presented, uh, with, um, removal of item one and replacing with, um, advancing efforts, advancing work to protect the Muskegon Lake watershed. Quality of the Muskegon Lake Watershed.

Support. Okay. Moved and supported to accept the 2026 Planning Commission Goals as stated. All those in favor?

Aye.

Hearing none, that moves forward and is approved. Can we take a look at that agenda real quick to make sure we're not missing anything? And then we're going to do some public comment for the folks who've been, I'm so sure, hanging out with us all this time. All right. We did already do our new business earlier. Do we have any other business?

No.

Nobody has any other business. Okay. At this point, we will go into public comment. If I have somebody in the room who would like to come forward, please state your name, preferably your address, and let us know what you'd like to talk about today. You have three minutes.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Jay Kildo. I am a resident of Ward 1 in the Steele neighborhood. Okay. That's fine. Um, I've not been to a planning commission meeting, so I wanted to come and join you all this evening. Uh, so thank you for having me while I was sitting. I just wrote some notes that I'd like to share. Um, With the new 21st century housing legislation that is now passed, I think it's a great opportunity for us to begin looking ahead. I'd like us to identify underlying abandoned commercial property that may be suitable for future housing, as that was one of the parts of the 21st century bill that just passed. While the implementation of these new laws will take some time, I believe that we should be proactive and start planning now so that we're ready to take advantage of opportunities as they come in the future. I also wanted to express my concern with what Mr. Franczak said that we have already passed with the maximum residential lot widths. Chairwoman, as you expressed earlier, the diversity of housing that we need in the city, while I understand the intent behind the proposal or behind maximum lot widths, I believe it can unintentionally limit creativity and flexibility for future development. We don't have many large parcels left in the city, but there may be occasions where a developer acquires a wider lot and they want to build a larger single family home like we used to build in the past. Not every family is looking for an ADU or an accessory dwelling unit. While ADUs are an important part of housing and they're a great option, Some families simply need or they prefer a larger home. Historically, our community included many larger homes that accommodate larger households, and I think that we should preserve the flexibility for that type of housing in the future. A good example, Muskegon Christian School earlier, while their property is not residential, they have a larger parcel that they want to put a parking lot on. I believe that we should allow thoughtful decisions Sensitive development that meets the needs of a diverse housing needs of our community Finally I'd like to touch on transportation As we think about the future of housing and development Transportation has to be a part of that conversation It is a vital piece of the long-term planning because of housing jobs education and access to services that we all are connected to and how some people need to move throughout our community and So I'd like to encourage us to continue to have productive conversations with our partners at the county, with our neighboring municipalities. So if you know of any elected officials or neighbors in our neighboring municipalities, continue to have conversations with them. If we've heard a no in the past, let's all sit back down or come back to the table so we can find a yes for the future of transportation here in Muskegon County.

That is your three minutes. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

And we do not have anyone else in the audience today, so we'll go to the phones. 231-724-6721. Just a second here while our TV catches up with ourselves. I know everybody's been hanging out with us all this time. They're excited about all these goals. Just a reminder that folks are always welcome to attend this meeting in person or online and then join us by phone. However, today I am seeing none. So I will go ahead and close the public comment period and ask anybody would like to motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

And all those opposed, stay here.