City Council - Regular Meeting

problem with the answer to too many questions you're never going to have too many answers that's a good thing thank you for your comments mr belbrick this is a public hearing and you cannot stop me you cannot stop it in a public hearing i have another three sentences but you cannot stop at a public hearing that would be a major violation this is a public hearing legal counsel is that true

In a public hearing, he does have the right to speak.

Yes, sir. Okay, going forward, whenever a council member asks the administration for important information and the response is, I didn't bring it, or the response is nothing because they're not here, or it's upstairs, the council should say, go get it. We'll recess and we'll be able to respond or we'll be able to vote when we have the full answers. If the administration cannot or will not provide the requested information, the council has an obligation to table the matter or to vote the matter down. The public deserves transparency, which you obviously have a problem with. The council deserves complete answers, which I don't understand why you guys don't understand that. But more importantly, the public deserves those complete answers. Thank you very much.

Anyone else wishing to speak on Ordinance 9-26?

Hi, everybody. My name is Karen Brubaker Buss. It's the first time I've ever come up and done anything like this. I'm a little nervous. I've been coming and attending the last few meetings, and I've heard a lot about the fire station. And I do have a lot of questions that don't seem to be getting answered that other people have asked. that I wonder about myself things like the lease finance agreement and how that works and is it a lease finance agreement or is it a bot agreement which they seem to be two different things and I'm not clear on which one you're going with the amount of money 11 and a half million dollars I would like a couple of other people see that number go down. Um, it seems like Muncie is not in a position to spend that kind of money. Um, and it looks like the way it's being done is because there's no other avenue for Muncie to have the money to build, um, another fire station. So I would just ask that you, um, take more consideration. and try to do a little more with getting the cost down.

Thank you for your comments. Anyone else wishing to speak on Ordinance 9-26?

Rick Yancey, Newsman and author. From what I heard, we need to put a few things in context. Number one, we have the right to speak absolutely in the Constitution of the United States. Number two, this government's already being investigated by the state for breaking open records law. And I would hope that it would not get another investigation for breaking open meetings law. And as far as the context here with what we're talking about, you're not spending our money. You're indebting us for the next 22 years to the tune of, let's see, almost $16 million plus interest. And that doesn't include the 12 million plus interest on the last station.

I think others have said to you,

College meeting to order for the Muncie Common Council I

to the August the 3rd, 2026 meeting. You'll stand, please, for the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Basham, will you lead us, please?

Join me with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please remain standing for the blessing given by Dr. Sandra Whitaker, former Muncie Community Schools administrator and current Muncie Ethics Council member.

Shall we pray? Lord, thank you for this time together, this opportunity that is unique because we have freedom in this country to meet in this manner. And may we be effective. May we display the integrity that needs to be displayed. May we remember whom we represent, how they wish to be represented, and why they're represented. Thank you, Lord, amen. Amen.

You may be seated. I first met our citizen of the month more than 20 years ago. As associate principal, I welcomed his group of participants from Ball State University beginning their semester at Southside High School. He was eager to experience life in front of a classroom full of students and get on with his career and education. Not long after he completed that semester at Southside, he was told by his commanding officers to spend the holidays with his family because he would be deployed to the Middle East in the new year. Thankfully, he returned safely from the Iraq War to Muncie and began his career in the classroom. who soon became the project lead the way coordinator at Muncie Central High School. He then continued to grow professionally and before long was promoted to assistant principal, where he continues to lead. When I was named interim principal at Central High School, he was my right hand man. Over the years, he has directed the school's commencement, raised a family with his wife Brandy, navigated the treacherous waters of high school leadership, foiled a home break-in, survived serious health issues, and has earned the respect of his students, their parents, his colleagues, and members of our community, including me. We owe him a debt of gratitude. For all these years, he has helped to keep Muncie Central High School a safe place for students to learn, for teachers to guide, and administrators to lead. It's such a pleasure to honor a real life hero as the Muncie City Council Citizen of August 2026, Justin Oliver. Want to say something? Sure.

Thank you, Dale.

Pull this out real quick.

When you receive an ominous message from Dale Basham to be somewhere, but you're not allowed to know why, you kind of get a I had a feeling. So I just wrote down a few things. I've always been more of a behind-the-scenes, logistical type of person, so standing at a podium and giving a speech isn't really my thing, so I'll try to be a very smart friend I know. I said be bold, be brief, and be gone. So I'm gonna try that really quick. So I wanna thank everybody who's been a part of my journey as a dedicated Bearcat. There's far too many people to thank individually, but please know I appreciate all of you. I actually started my 20th consecutive year at Muncie Central last Monday, and I'm pretty proud of that. Most people don't know, but I was born on East 15th Street on the south side before my family moved to the country when I was very young. But even so, I was still raised a Bearcat, going to the field house, waiting in the snow for tickets, and cheering on Central every chance I got. Then in sixth grade, I got on the bus and found out I wasn't going to Muncie Central, I was going to Delta. Needless to say, I was not happy. Uh, my parents are both Bearcat graduates and I just, I assumed I was going to be one too. Uh, so while I spent 13 years in the Delta school system, I'm now beginning my 20th year with Muncie schools. And I can honestly say I bleed purple and you can see I'm head to toe. I'm I'm purple. So, um, In fact, it's actually been longer than 20 years. As Dale spoke about, I taught, I student taught at Wilson Middle School and had the privilege of coaching under the legendary Mike Paul at Muncie Southside. And I loved every second of that. I love Muncie, I take great pride in our city and our school system. The relationships I've built with the Muncie Police Department, Mayor Dan, I saw you here, Chief Sloan, Muncie Fire, and also we have a Delaware County Safe Schools Committee where all of our, a lot of people from every school system in Delaware County we meet and we work on keeping our schools safe. That means a great deal to me. So our school board and central office, have been incredibly supportive throughout the years. I also want to thank my boss, Chris Walker. He started his 11th year. That's the longest time I've ever had a boss before. So he's more like a brother than a boss or a colleague. So that's been great. And then finally, my wife and kids. They're over there, and they've put up with me being at Muncie Central and Bearcat events way longer than I've been at home, so I appreciate it.

Roll call, please.

McIntosh?

Present.

Basha?

Here.

Mason?

Here.

Dishman?

Present. Garrett?

Present.

Selby? Here. Bowen? Here. Powell? Here. Green? Here. All those.

Entertain a motion to approve minutes of the July 6th meeting.

so moved i'll second that mr president i would like to make some corrections from last month's minutes if i may on page seven of the minutes Second paragraph where it says council person Selvi expressed her admiration from the city's various neighborhood organizations. If you skip three more sentences, the fourth one says she specifically questioned the McKinley neighborhood team regarding the request to suspend the rules for immediate adoption. And then it goes, she asked what's the practical gain would be in passing. that night versus waiting 30 days and whether there were specific projects ready to start. These were not my comments. These were Mr. President Green's comments. I went back and looked at the video and I would like to correct the minutes.

Okay. Do we have a second on the correction? I'll second that. Okay. Let's vote on the amendment. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed, same sign. And we'll go to approve the minutes as amended now.

Thank you. So moved.

Second. No call.

Powell?

Yes.

Selby?

Yes.

Golian?

Yes.

Garrett? Yes.

yes yes yes yes boards and commissions committee reports there mr. president yes you said account you said a committee report To the citizens of Muncie and the members of the Common Council, I am writing in response to the mayor's July 28th community update. The update states that the committee voted to recommend the Industry United Methodist Church as a location for the future community center. However, to my understanding, no formal motion was made, no vote was called, and no recorded vote was taken to recommend any location. If that understanding is correct, the public record should be corrected to accurately reflect what occurred. Transparency means more than holding open meetings. It requires that what is communicated publicly matches what actually took place. Residents deserve factual and truthful reporting, especially when public resources and long-awaited community projects are involved. I respectfully request that the administration review the July 28 update and issue a retraction. I am requesting clarification on how the information in the July update was obtained. If no formal motion or recorded vote occurred, what documentation supports the claim made in the update? Transparency requires that official communications are grounded in the actual public record. I respectfully ask for the basis of that statement. Also, the Mayor mentioned the Resolution 15-25 that Council Mason and myself co-authored, saying that the Council appointed the Five Neighborhood Association to a committee without stating the fact two amendments were added to the resolution. without risking losing the resolution of all. We together had to go ahead and vote yes for the amendment of the resolution. The council voted 9-0, putting the youth center in industry neighborhood, which seems to me that manipulated wording to get around that. In our committee meeting on July 27, 2026, at the Mock Street Church, at the July 23rd Industry Neighborhood Association meeting, I said that the mayor needs to stand by his promise and do right by the Industry Neighborhood Association by giving them the $500,000 or at least give them the old park building and he can park for a dollar since that seems to be the going price now. This way, he can go down as the mayor who did good on the city's promise of 20 plus years to replace the Madison Street Multi-U Center. the statement he made in his community update. And the United Methodist Church on Mock Avenue is not an industry neighborhood. In the May meeting, the committee was told the 500,000 stays at the Mock Street Church. That puts this committee in a bad position. An offer you can't refuse, so to speak. If the committee pushed for the center to be an industry, the neighborhood would be at risk of losing the funding. Oh, by the way, I am a member of the Industry Neighborhood Association because I pay my dues. Leslie McCorry, you saw the writing on the wall. Mr. Mason, do you want an opportunity to speak on that since both our names was in that update?

Yes, thank you, Bill. The Mayor's July 28th Community Update raises questions about how information was developed and verified. I was at that meeting. There was no formal motion or recorded vote on deciding where a location would be. And I would like for the mayor, if he would, to cite the minutes or official records supporting your enthusiastic community update.

Yeah.

Thank you. Any other comments?

the committee report i'm done i just need that i needed to set the record straight because i know it wasn't no vote taken and uh i am a member of the industry neighborhood association okay we need to have that center in industry as this whole council 90 vote suggested that's all i got to say on this any other comments on committee report

I'm sorry. Any other committee report? Mr. Dishman?

Yes. On July 22nd, we had a public service meeting about the new fire station, and we had some questions. We started out with the first meeting, then we had to do that second meeting. So Ms. Scullion was the first one on the first meeting to talk, so I let Mr. Green be the first one. this time to talk. And he asked questions about the financial stuff of the firehouse and a few other questions about the financials. And then we went to miss Sarah Gullion. Um, she had concerns about the, um, the bowl state money, uh, said we needed a contract with him. Uh, we shouldn't trust Ball State or something like that. And I showed her a letter that Ball State wrote Mr. Murms pledging 1.5 million. Then she went on to ask about questions about how many people is going to be in this new fire station. And I think Chief Berfer said eight to 10 people. And she wanted to know why so many. And he told her that we had EMTs that are going to be in that building. And we're going to have some ambulances and some training done on that building. and when she got done with her questions, I asked Chief Burford if it was gonna be a two-story and it's gonna have stairway and the pole in the building and he acknowledged yes and then I asked Greg Marks of GM Development, if he was going to use local union labor, and he said he would, and I asked, do local union labor, he said he would, and seeing what they've done out there on Station 6, I don't see any problems out there And I asked another question the last time about why don't they get some land from Ball State, but it's all geothermal stuff out there. They can't build on top of geothermal stuff. So that's the reason why they're not getting any space from Ball State. so uh after i looked over at uh mr green i said do you have any more questions mr green he said no and i looked over to miss scully and i said do you have any more questions and she said no then i looked back at mr green and said are you sure he said yes and i said this going said so i said i want to make a motion for favorable or non-favorable So I said all in favor say yes, and all opposed say no. But we had two yeses, which Jeff and I said yes, and Ms. Gulligan abstained. And I adjourn the meeting. OK. Thank you for that report.

Any other committee reports? Moving on. Then we've been asked at this time to entertain a motion to suspend this meeting at this moment to go into a public hearing on ordinance eight days 26. resolution resolution excuse me yes do i do i have one willing to make that motion i'll make that motion i'll second that motion second all those in favor all right okay i'll suspend the meeting for a moment go into public yes mr murphy

Good evening, council. I've had the opportunity to discuss resolution 826 with the administration by their council in exchange for assurances that the council will receive revised and thorough written responses from the controller's office to their previously submitted questions by October 16, 2026, a date chosen because of the upcoming budget season. There has been a proposal made to adjourn and postpone this public hearing to a date certain, a special meeting on November 16, 2026 at 7 p.m. in this room.

So moved.

Second. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Same sign. We're back to the...

so that we will need a motion to resume the motion to resume the meeting. So moved.

I'll second that.

Yeah, we have a first and a second. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed. Same sign motion. Okay. So ordinances previously introduced. Ordinance nine dash 26. Okay. We need to have a motion to bring this out of committee. So do I have a motion to bring this out of committee?

I so move.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

Okay. Roll call please.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Ordinance Nash nine. Excuse me. Dash 26. An ordinance of the city of Muncie, Indiana, approving matters related to lease financing a fire station project.

The motion to adopt ordinance nine days 26.

I'll make that motion.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Okay. Any questions from the council? Anyone in the audience? Yes.

Thank you. I want to bring up the 1.5 million again from Ball State as As Chair Dishman did mention, we did talk about this at the public services meeting. I am still of the opinion that we could reduce the amount asked for from the 11.5 to the 10 million because, as he mentioned, we all do have a letter from Ball State telling us that they're giving us 1.5 million in a lump sum that will go directly to Station 5. So I would like for, I guess, the administration to talk about that. The controller didn't have specific information about that when I asked about it at the public services meeting. So maybe Mayor Ridenour would be able to answer exactly where that stands with Ball State.

Good evening. Good evening.

Good evening.

Do you have a specific question?

Yes. First of all, we've got a letter. Are you planning on a contract, to sign a contract with Ball State?

Their board has already approved it. President Mearns has put in writing that they will pay that however we want. He says you don't have to have it all up front if you don't want. We can use it to pay down debt. The thing about the 11.5, if we use the process that we've been working on, that maxes out the price. And so if there are savings, like there were on Station 6, if there are savings, then we get to capture those. So I don't want to necessarily borrow $10 million up front because that may impact. The financial advisors may have different thoughts on that, but that's how it was explained to me. I would personally not, I'm a person who doesn't, attempts to not borrow in my own life, and so I would borrow as little as possible. So I would personally use that 1.5 to immediately help fund the fire station so that we never draw on the whole 11.5. You don't pay interest on the 11.5 until you borrow on it until you access it. So that would be my preference, but the council gets to pick. So if the council wants to do it, to borrow the whole 11-5 and use it as the first two years' payments, I suppose you could. To me, it's better not to pay the interest. But that's just my personal opinion.

Can I just do a follow-up on that? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. I'm sorry, Jeff, if that's okay. Yes, so, but you say, you know, that we've got, then we'll have a cushion possibly, okay? And we understand that that stays with us, but it only applies to the fire stations. So my concern is that's great for the fire stations. I totally understand why they would want that. I know that other fire stations also need help. I know five needs to be built, period. I mean, five needs to be built. The other stations also. We did that last time. We had some leftover from what was borrowed for six. And they were able to make some improvements at other stations. That's great. And I appreciate that that's a good way for them to do that. However, as the council, we don't only have one department that we have to look at. We have to look at, just like you do, multiple departments throughout the city. So I'm concerned with the cushion. I'm concerned with the transparency aspect of that. I feel like if they need something at other stations those should be brought to us you know as each station so that's where I stand on that you know reach reduction sure yes so mr. mr. mayor what you're saying is that you want to borrow as little as possible then wouldn't you support amending to reduce the amount

of Ordinance 9-26 to 10 million and only dealing with that, since we know that we have a lump sum of 1.5 million. Could you just explain why that is?

MR. Yeah, would it be all right if I bring one of the experts up? Again, I'm relaying information that I have been told.

MS. Well, and I'm just asking based on what you've said, is that, you know, you want to borrow as little as possible.

MR. Are you able to help with that?

MS. We have 1.5 coming in.

Yeah, let's let someone who is an actual involved in that. We pay them to do this. All right. Hardly pay him, he says.

I'm Bob Swence with the London Whitted Group, and really what we're talking about is timing. We're asking for a not to exceed bond issue of $11.5 million. We have a fairly long process still to go, some more approvals, some wait periods. If during that time the money shows up in the bank and we can say to investors, we have all the money we need with your buying these bonds, we can reduce the bond issue. But if for some reason we fail to get that money in a timely manner, then we would really want to issue the full amount that we can to pay for the fire station. And then if we would get the 1.5 later, we can use it for other fire station purposes. We can use it to pay down debt or for whatever we need. But it's really kind of a timing. We're not saying we're going to definitely issue 11.5. This is not to exceed 11.5.

Follow-up question.

Follow-up question. So would you then advocate for paying down debt then with that 11.5? Is there a penalty for paying that debt down sooner?

Well, that wouldn't obviously be my decision. If that's what you and the administration decided we would do is pay down debt, we would try to work with the bankers to figure out a way that we could do that without penalty.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I know when I spoke at the public services meeting I did ask the controller about a contract but also about when when he said we don't know when we can get that you just mentioned that again now the mayor just said that they said we can have it whenever and however I guess we need an answer about that like

how when could we get this money from ball states pretty clearly i'll just i'll just read it to you well we've got it here i know you but i can read it so that the the public has it i do have to find it but i do have the letter from ball state they will do that upon oh i've got it here i can read it provide a one-time lump sum payment of 1.5 million

when you have confirmed that you have obtained the necessary approvals for the project and have executed a contract with a construction company. And then they say they also increased their annual payment to $300,000 when the project is complete and the aerial truck has been relocated to the new fire station.

Yep. So, yes. So I think there's flexibility there, and I'm not a construction company, so I'm speaking on what my belief would be, but I don't know if the construction company would be on board. There will be $0 until a construction company is on board, and all the final approvals from this council have occurred. Once there's a construction company, then there's an opportunity for us to decide where that 1.5 goes. I would tend to borrow the 11.5 but not access it. I've done many, many construction loans in my banking career. and you don't pay any interest if you don't access the funds. But if the council chooses to do it a different way and spend the 1.5 million on architecture and ground preparation, site work, and not access the full 11.5, that's fine too. But it's not something that can even be decided by Ball State or anybody at this point until there's a construction company and all the final approvals. You'll have plenty of opportunities, as Mr. Swint said, you'll have plenty of opportunities to help decide where this goes and when it goes. But as you all agree, it is something that is necessary, and we hope that we'll be able to move this forward.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Appreciate it. Yeah, the questions from council. Yes. Oh, sorry.

Mr. President, following up on the question that Councilwoman Gullion asked in regards to that 1.5, then we'll give the fire department a cushion. And this has nothing really to do with with your project. So we have $400,000 that was left over from from Station 6 remodeling, because even though it said up to a certain amount, we did up to that amount. And so we had that $400,000 left over to be used on other stations. And now we're saying that we could potentially have $1.5 million left over to put into other stations. And so that's almost $2 million that the fire department's budget has been increased, or will have been increased, for capital improvements, correct? And these are questions, I mean, I'm just looking for clarification. Yes, absolutely, come up. And so.

That is actually, and I appreciate your comments, Council Person Powell, but no, there won't be one and a half million left over. because it costs 11 and a half to build it. Originally you had said, how about if we borrow 10 and use the 1.5. Correct. Yeah.

But if we don't, and there hasn't been a motion to amend to reduce it, so right now the 11.5 is still on the table. Correct. And so the 11.5 plus the 1.5 from Ball State, So that, I mean, because as of right now, we're not discussing 10 million, are we? Reducing to 10, and there's been no motion.

Yeah, the 1.5 is from Ball State to help pay for the initials, the start of the fires, to build the fire station. We're not planning on, there's no chance that that is going to the fire department's budget. That's going toward this station.

Well, then information that we received during some of those public service meetings are incorrect.

Because... No, if the station gets built for 11.3 million, there's 200,000 left over. And then this council has the right, and I think they did it last time, this council has the right to tell the developer what happens with that 200,000. It comes back to the city. And so that could go to the... to other fire stations, or that could go to other uses along those lines.

So you're responding with the understanding that that 1.5 coming from Ball State, and it's not saying that that's not what's happening, but I just want to make sure that we're on the same page.

Sure.

You're saying that 11.5 that is still in ordinance 9-26 goes towards the project. Then we still have this 1.5 that's coming in from Ball State for this project. Correct. So that's $13 million for this project. But we're only saying it's up to $11.5 million. So we still have that $1.5 million. And we were told at the public service meeting that that would go into other fire stations.

Well, all I, what I will say is that the 1.5 is for fire station five. Once we have a construction company and once we have all the approvals from this council, when this council chooses what they want and how they want to spend that 1.5, It has to be toward the fire station, though. That's what Ball State is spending it on.

Right.

But we do not need to access the full. If you have, for example, let's say you have a MasterCard. You've got a credit card, and it has a $3,000 credit limit. Well, that doesn't mean you owe $3,000. Right. If you use $1,000 to purchase something, you owe $1,000. I'm just saying we just won't access the full credit line. That's how I would handle it. The council gets to pick. But that's how I would handle it. I would end up doing less. But if it's a build, operate, transfer, and you don't do it at 11.5, if the costs go over, we could be at risk.

Correct. But what you're saying now contradicts what Chief Burford said at the public service meeting. I'm just curious which is correct.

So he said the 1.5 is not for this fire station?

He said that the 1.5 is for the fire station, but anything extra we have would be put towards other stations because they also need to be renovated.

Which I would agree with, especially number seven, especially station number seven. It needs expanded dramatically, but I do not, as much as I would love for us to do this for a million dollars or 400,000 or even 300,000 under budget, In this environment, it's not always easy to do. Agreed. I would say this council can tell, while this is being put together, how do you want to put that together in the end? If you want it to go toward fire stations, however you want it to do, I would prefer not to even access it. That would be my choice if I were on the council. I would say let's not access that 1.5. I would not do $13 million. Okay. And I wouldn't vote for that. I would hold the total price to $11.5 million and know that $1.5 million is coming from Ball State.

And can pay down that debt.

Yeah, I believe at this time, cheaper for light speed.

Okay.

Thank you.

Good evening. Just a couple points of clarification, if you don't mind. Sure. During the Public Services Committee meeting, we spoke about the remainder of the money that was left from the construction of Station 6. There was over $500,000 there that we did not access from the bond. So that money was not used anywhere else. We would not be able to use that money anywhere else unless we came and asked you to appropriate it for another project. You appropriated that money specifically for Station 6. We've not used a penny. of that money anywhere besides station six station five is the same way and that's why i said when i came up here it could potentially be used for other station projects but it cannot automatically be used for other station projects we would have to come in front of you and ask you to appropriate that money for additional station projects because you do still control those funds so and you know the letter that came from ball state said they're willing to to you know put forth 1.5 million dollars for the station project once contracts are signed and i believe the hard thing is going to be is to get a contractor developer to sign a contract unless we've clearly secured the 11.5 million in advance So if the bond is approved for 11.5, now we have proven to them that we've secured the funds. If Ball State's funds then come in during the project, those funds can be used. You would have to appropriate that. But those funds can be used to go directly into that building fund so that we don't need to access the entire 11.5. So you could approve the maximum for 11.5, appropriate the funds for Station 5 from Ball State, No other, none of those other funds can be appropriated beyond the amount unless we come forth and ask you for permission. So if you appropriate the money right after the contracts are signed, that 1.5 million comes off before we even start drawing money. Okay? And so with the contract that's being signed with Mr. Martz, if you agree, the whole project will not exceed 11.5. So when we hit that 11.5 stop, if we put the 1.5 up early into the game here, that's where it's gonna stop. The remaining $1.5 million cannot be used for anything other than Station 5 unless you approve that.

So I hope that clarifies that.

We didn't use any of the other money, though, nor could we without your permission.

All right.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Any other questions? But that $500,000 there is only for the fire?

Correct. It can only be used for fire department infrastructure projects. Okay.

Okay.

And it cannot be used for any infrastructure. Pardon me?

No. Capital or infrastructure?

Well, you guys are approving for infrastructure projects. So it still cannot be used anywhere besides Station 6, and we didn't need it. So it sets there. We couldn't use it unless we came and asked you to appropriate that money for specific projects. Thank you.

Do you have plans to do that?

if i'm not going to come and ask for just a piece of money if i can't complete a project i'm going to be honest with you so um you know we have some things we would like to do and i would certainly be open for discussion um but you know we would come before you and make that appropriate you know request that appropriation give you the plans okay um is what we're going to do with that before obviously anything could be done okay thank you thank you any other questions for council okay we have a first and a second

Roll call, please. Public comment. Oh, public comment. I'm sorry.

Audie Barber. So I'm assuming that we, instead of point 8.6 million, we've spent 8.55 million on station six because they said we had 500,000 leftover on it. Um, they could apply it back towards the bar or just leave it in there for something happens at station six. The concerns I have is do we really have the money for all these projects? We just got a brand new fire station six. I understand these guys need these stations updated. I understand that 100%. But if we don't have the money for it, and it puts the city deeper and deeper in debt, then that's gonna be a big problem. Also on station six, some of the EMS money, I think it was 200,000 a year, 150. something like that was supposed to be taken out of the EMS fund and applied each year towards that building. Is that something that's going to happen this time? Are they going to appropriate some money from the EMS fund to fund this building too? Yes. And I'd like to know more about it. So that's where I'm at on it. And like I said, if we ain't got the money, don't spend it. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

I can't argue with anything that's been said. I agree we need to update the fire station. My problem is the financial arrangements. First of all, the bond lawyers do not represent the people in this room. They represent the investors. So we gotta make that clear. So when they talk at a public meeting, they're not answering, they're not protecting us, they're protecting the bond investors. So we gotta be clear there. The other thing is Ball State. I did an APRA, a Freedom of Information Act request, and there's been no communication with the board's trustees on the million and 1.5 million. So you better get a commitment, not a letter that says, we will do this. That is not a commitment. You need to get something on paper that's been approved by the Board of Trustees before you proceed on this. Because all they've done so far, and I got all the letters that they sent to Ridenour, the mayor, and there's nothing in there about a, we've approved this with the board of trustees. It's just communications. This is what we're gonna do. And the other thing they said they were gonna do was increase their payment to 300,000. It's already at 266,000. So they're only adding 34,000 a year this brand new fire station which to me is just it blows my mind that they can have you know I mean it's in their backyard I mean they're the ones that need the ladder truck them and the hospital and neither one were paying shit as far as I'm concerned please watch that do what please watch your language oh sure also Manure, does that work? Okay. Just want to clarify. Also, we are not using $11.5 million to build this fire station. As soon as it's approved, $1.2 million disappears in closing costs. Bye-bye. So you're only dealing a little over $10 million. And the other thing is that part of the $1.2 million that goes in closing costs is $685,000 in capitalized interest, which means that is going to make the payments on the bond until June 2028. After the next election, it's kind of interesting that all of this capitalized interest that's being used to make payments until after the big election in 2028. And what concerns me is whoever comes in as the next mayor, they're going to see like $1.7 million, poof, like that, right out of their edit account. so i don't you know i was told that you know the main reason for edit was to invest uh and bring in money a fire station doesn't bring in any money that's all i got thank you chief burfer

Chief, you got one over here.

Mr. President, can I ask the chief a question or two? Chief, can you come up and just explain that the payment that Ball State is making, what they're paying right now also includes the lease payment for the aerial truck, correct?

Correct.

They pay $167,000 of that, what they're currently paying. we'll cease once we pay off that truck.

So it was a 300,000 then for the 300,000 goes up for, for beyond.

So yes, they currently pay 150 increase.

Yeah. They pay 150 for fire protection and they pay 116,000 for the aerial payment.

Correct.

Which comes off in 27.

Okay. And so, and so it is a significant increase that they're doing given that that payment will be going away. Um, and the aerial truck is housed where now?

It's housed at Station two right now.

Station two is in and he can park. He can park. So the truck. And can you explain why the aerial truck is so important to get back to Station five, which is in my district?

Well, obviously, it is our only actual platform truck. It is the only truck in the city that can actually be counted as an aerial for the ISO ratings for insurance. And it has to be housed in proximity to your tallest structures.

Correct.

So that is Station 5. And we had to move it because when we brought EMS in, the EMS was several calls, and you try to balance the service as best we can. And that's what we did when the moves were made. Yeah.

And so, to clarification, follow-up, the truck that would be most beneficial to fight fire at Ball Hospital and at several of the buildings on campus is across town.

That's correct.

Even though Ball State is paying the lease payment.

That is correct.

Okay. Um, and so that, that's, I think that's why it's important for them to have that back.

And that's why they said once, once the station's done and that truck is back in house at station five, that they would increase the payment because it does have that contingency on the increase of the money.

It does. And then, um, just one, one. Anybody else have a question?

I'm so sorry.

Go ahead.

Absolutely. Um, okay. This one is actually more back to the mayor probably, but. going back to this letter versus versus a contract and what was just mentioned about the trustee the mayor could come back up please so to your knowledge has this gone to the trustees for a vote

I don't know what department it went to. I was told that it had been approved.

Okay. Is there a reason that we couldn't get a contract, that you wouldn't want a contract, a written contract for this, just to know that this is coming for sure?

Well, I don't doubt that it's coming.

That's great, and you're probably right, but honestly, when we're talking about this much money and we're talking about running the city, I would think that we would want a written contract. Are you going to ask for that? If we were to say, I mean, I'm thinking maybe there'd be an amendment saying that we could vote for this or this could go through if we have a written contract with Ball State. I mean, I just feel like we need something more than a handshake.

Well, it's more than a handshake. It's a written letter.

I see that.

And it is confirmed. You know, I don't know how, what department and how they are funding it. It may not be from Ball State's general fund, but I was told that it was approved.

I just would like to see, you know, a contract that says this is half. This is definitely a thing.

Well, I... Ball State has committed to it. They provided a letter to each of you. You've had that for some time and I'm very thankful for them and I know it is very necessary for the construction of this facility because it's it's on an area of our city where the station is is totally inadequate we can't even we have we can only get two pieces in there and it has major repairs that are necessary I understand I'm done it's horrible I totally agree that's why this is important to get this money yep I just and we will get it I think Ball State probably I know President Mearns is committed to this. He wants it to happen, and it's going to happen. Once we have a contractor, which we will have if we get all the approval documents from you guys.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Appreciate it.

Just a follow-up, and it might be for you. Yeah, that's okay. The LIT, because we're using LIT. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Are we certain that we have sufficient lit to cover the expenses?

Yes, we are absolutely certain. And I think there's been information sent to each of you as well.

And I'm mostly asking so we can hear in public.

So we have, in fact, it has increased substantially as we've increased population. We've also increased some salaries. And again, our biggest challenge in our community is having places for people to live. Because we have between eight and ten thousand people that drive into Muncie each and every day and they pay zero lit in Delaware County if they're driving in from out of County So they don't pay we don't receive anything yet. They come in here. They use our services. We're thankful They are here, but we would prefer them move here. So we've done a good I think we've done a very good job of increasing the population and We're up about 1,300 people in total in the five years, and that has increased the pool, and we are already well over, I mean, we're way ahead, several hundred thousand dollars ahead of the expected revenues already for LIT because of the increased population. It's really helped.

President, follow-up question?

Sure.

I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Sorry, twice. So in the LIT that you're saying, that's the public safety LIT that we'll be paying that out of, or we'll be paying that out of the code?

No, it's out of the entire LIT. So that's the amount that comes to the council. That's the amount that comes to public safety. That's the amount that comes to edit funds. It comes out of that fund, just like the previous fire station. Station six was funded the exact same way.

Mr. Mason, you had a question. No, you did not.

else and so we don't see any danger of the and I know that a lot of it has to be worded that way so that though so that week our bond rating and things along those lines in regards to backing up with property taxes we don't see any danger in the lit not being sufficient so that we would have to then go to property taxes correct I do not thank you I do not see any problem with that thank you anyone else wishing to speak on ordinance 9-26

Good afternoon. Good evening. Uh, Jason Chaffin, president, local, uh, firefighters, local 1348. Uh, I just wanted to remind everybody that this process started six years ago in 2020, uh, with the committee of firefighters and community leaders and, uh, on a board, you know, over this last six years, we've had needs assessments, um, you know, financial fiscal analysis, stations, location studies, all that stuff, you know, over the years have been presented when we did the fire station on the Northeast East side of town, you know, which again, all that said, we also need a fire station on Northwest side of town. And this is just, like I said, it's a slow and, uh, and agonizing slow, but, you know, obviously needing, you know, uh, to be method method, method, method, methodological when you spend this kind of money. Yeah. So I thank you guys all for that. Um, You know, like I said, I've heard questions about locations, and you know, Jerry answered one about the geothermal, you know, being surrounding it, and obviously Ball State's, you know, Christy Woods is on the other side of it. So it's in a great location where it's at, and you know, the studies all showed that. Like I said, this process has been negotiated, and through, like I said, I appreciate all you guys' support for the previous one, you know, the fire station six, you know, I mean, obviously, it's a quality of place issue, not just for my guys and gals, you know, who have to live there, but it's quality place for, you know, the, the entire communities and neighborhoods. You know what I mean? When we drive by station six now, I mean, that's a pride that we have in that neighborhood and that in that area. You know, and that's something that the build, the city can build on, you know, when we get one on the Northeast side of town, that'll be a pride for that neighborhood. And then again, that spreads to the entire community community when we have infrastructure, you know, and, and that looks good and shows that we're, you know, it makes the whole city get better. So I appreciate all you guys for your support in the past and, and the, for this project.

Thank you. Anyone else?

Hello. I'm Rob Miller. Um, the mayor just stated that they have the money in lit today. I don't disagree with that. I think if they fix the fiscal picture, it looked like it does today. We're going to be fine for 20 years, but we know that there's an edit fund. It's going away. We will not have that money anymore. That is going to the County and they're not going to give you the city any of that money, I suspect. Second, we know that property tax revenue is going to drop for the city. It's going to fall off a cliff. So my question is, have we done a stress test? What does it look like in 5, 10, 15 years when we've lost all of that money? Yes, I know LIT will go up year over year if the city continues to grow, but is that going to make up the losses? Does anyone remember the last administration that had to suffer with budget problems? Mayor McShirley was shutting off streetlights. That was my first introduction to Muncie when I moved here, was the city was cutting services and streetlights because they couldn't afford to pay the bills. That was what shaped my initial opinion of the Muncie government. And I've seen them do better. I've seen you guys do better. But I am really concerned that in five, eight, 10 years, we're gonna be panicking in this city because where's the money gonna come from? Are you gonna start hiring police officers, city workers, closing parks? I mean, this money for this thing is guaranteed. They will get their money before everything else in the city. And I'm not saying that the firefighters don't deserve a new home. Please don't take that this way. I am just very concerned with the stuff that has changed at the State House. as to what's gonna happen to our city if you approve this as is today. Thank you.

Thank you. Todd Smekens again. Just to piggyback on what he said, right now, it sounds really rosy. I love the mayor's optimism. The city of Muncie is rated one grade above junk. It's BB minus is a standard and poor rating. Why? Because we have too much debt. And that's before you add $11.5 million. So if you go to junk bonds where you can't get investor-grade bonds, your price goes through the roof. I mean, they're going to charge you an arm and a leg for any funding that you want. So you might want to check into that. Thanks. Anyone else?

Yeah, Terry Moore. Like I said earlier, this city is only built excluding number sixes. This city has built one fire station in the last 60 years, and I keep hearing number sevens, and that's the one that was built, and it's in dire need of updating. It's in terrible shape. It was never built to be what firefighters needed. Don't approve this now, and the next time it'll be in front of you, it'll be for 18 or 20 million.

Anyone else to see me?

Hi, um, I'm Jenny Jackson. I'm a Sergeant on the second battalion at Muncie station or Muncie fire station number five. Um, I just wanted to share a little bit about my experience there. Um, I've been there for five months, um, with the department for six years. Um, I don't know if the community is really aware that we are we're living in sewage most of the time when we flush our toilets sewage comes up through our drains our bays are constantly just a smell of sewage as it comes up when you use the bathrooms there when you sit down the water comes up from the toilets A lot of the things are not fixable at this point. And I just wanted to advocate for us because we don't get to go home at the end of the day. We don't do eight hours at an office that's deplorable. We live there a third of our life. And so I hope that the community will also consider that. I can't speak on checks and balances and numbers, but I can speak on what we're living in. And we love our community and we're here to serve them. So I hope that the community will support us to have somewhere where we can have healthy living conditions while we're there. Thank you. Thank you.

anyone anyone else okay we have a first and a second roll call please yes yes yes it's important to my district yes yes I am

I see that we still trying to get a lot of money and we have all this money to be spent and everything. But I still feel for my brothers and sisters that haven't got that contract done in two and a half years yet. And the city workers, they have lives and have to live hard too. So with that being said and the way I feel about it, I have to say no.

Mason?

I'm going to piggyback on what Sarah was talking about with the contract. I think they do need a contract, something that has more of a teeth to it than just a letter. Letters come and go. We've heard that over and over, promises made and never kept.

Yes.

So I am going to have to vote no.

Basham?

Yes.

And Green?

Yes.

Moving on to Ordinance 14-26.

Ordinance 14-26, an ordinance for the City of Muncie prohibiting department heads from serving on certain boards and commissions and establishing ethics and conflict of interest standards.

We have a motion to adopt Ordinance 14-26.

So moved.

Second. And we have a second.

When do we get public comments?

Public comment now. Ordinance 14 dash 26.

I wanted to speak on this ordinance because I'm on the Human Rights Commission and our ordinance on the Human Rights Commission has specific guidelines for membership. And one of those guidelines is religious representation. And up until this last, like May the 31st, we did have clergy on there. And then that person, their time was up and they didn't want to renew. But the point is, if we have that space open for a clergy, then that meets our ordinance, our obligation for that ordinance. So and also just to keep in mind the way that it can help other boards and commissions in the community is just going to allow more citizens to be able to be involved. I don't know how many how many department heads are on boards and if they're on multiple boards, I don't know but I think that Residential Representation is really important and like I said I'm mainly speaking for the Human Rights Commission because I'm on the Human Rights Commission and I know what that ordinance says So I'd like to have that space open up for a clergy because that's one of the Excuse me. That's one of the requirements in our ordinance and

So thank you very much.

Good evening. My name's Patty Yoddard. I am a resident of the city of Muncie. I do serve on multiple boards, and I am appointed by the mayor. I would say as part of this ordinance, it says to prevent ethics and conflict of interest violations. If that's my understanding, if that's correct, you already have an ordinance that addresses that very specifically. And that ordinance is, I have it written right here, 3724. It's the code of ethics and we're already following that. So it's, it's addressed. But I will speak from my personal experience. The comments that I'm making are those of mine, not my employer. I have been appointed to two commissions. I serve on those commissions. One, I haven't been able to attend as regularly as the others, with pride. And I serve. And I serve as myself. I'm not someone's puppet. In fact, I will tell you, I'm appointed by the mayor. He came to a meeting two meetings ago. I objected to what he had to say. So if the point is to distinguish that we don't have minds of our own, I can tell you I do. And I speak as a department head. And I would also like, to point out that at the last meeting I watched very clearly how you guys didn't know how to word this ordinance. I understand that. But clearly there is some confusion on how the city of Muncie works. We do not have layers of supervisors. We have department heads, two departments have an additional supervisor, then everyone else is an employee. So if they report to an appointed person, you're wanting to exclude them from serving on boards, commissions, and councils. I think that's not advisable because our employees choose to be engaged in this community. And if you put that in the ordinance the way you all were talking, I think that that's a downfall for this community because our employees are involved. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Any comments?

actually I do because I think miss Goddard made a good point that we were muddy on on the amendment that I brought up so I would like to actually introduce an amendment and I want to introduce an amendment that will clean up the language and will basically say that it would be department heads appointed officials which we have um laid out here according to actually the ethics uh ordinance that ms goddard was was talking about and then administrative staff of those people and i've got i've gone ahead and made a copy for everybody and it just shows exactly where the changes would be and i've given one to our attorney and I've got one for you let's see may I read it the main part so that so basically this is changing it so that it's it would be ordinance for the city of Muncie prohibiting department heads appointed officials and certain administrative staff from serving And then underneath department head, the department head stays the same, that definition. But then appointed officials means deputy mayor, personnel human resources director, city controller, city engineer, traffic engineer, head of the department of public works, superintendent of parks and recreation, chief of police department, chief of fire department, building commissioner, building director, head of the department of redevelopment, any and all deputies to any of the previously listed, any executive branch official appointed directly by the mayor and then it would also add administrative staff means any administrative staff working for any of the above and then yeah I'll second that motion motion in a second thank you

I'd like to have a roll call on the amendment.

Garrett?

Yes.

Dishman?

No.

Selby?

No.

Mason?

Yes. Powell?

Yes.

McIntosh?

Yes.

Basham?

No.

Gullion?

Yes.

Green?

No.

Now we have an amended ordinance before us. Continue the public comment.

Wayne Scaife. Good job, Sarah. It's still short of my all employees, all city employees, but that's good enough right there. It's a good job. So the young lady spoke about the Human Rights Commission. And one reason we need this is because a certain individual department had to serving on a human rights commission. And I hope we amend this and say immediately because, uh, when a person's job was in jeopardy on that human rights commission and some of you were there, that, uh, department head was so eager to get the vote on and fire that person. that they didn't want to hear from, she didn't want to hear from the public. I said, she, I shouldn't have said that. So now I know who it is, but, and to what the young lady said earlier, you know, if, if you're in, in the succession line and you report directly to the mayor, it's hard for me to believe that you're not going to feel like he's hovering over you when you making decisions on these boards. And I know what she said, but that's her. Everybody's not like that. So I hope y'all vote in favor of this as amended. And let's continue to make good decisions. And we should have added, like I said at the last meeting, elected officials. Elected officials need to be on here. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hold on one second. I actually want to ask her something.

May I speak with you? The line's over here.

The line.

I'm sorry. I thought they were just standing. I don't attend to these. Obviously. Mr. Robinson's up.

Good evening, Council, President Green, other council members. My name is Jeff Robinson. I'm the Development Director at Schaefer Leadership Academy, and that's who I'm representing tonight. I'm not here to speak in favor or against Ordinance 14-26. I'm here tonight to speak really because the conversation surrounding this ordinance reminds us of something we can all agree on. that Muncie is filled with people who are willing to serve. I think we can all agree on that. Our boards and commissions depend on citizens who are willing to raise their hands and say, I'd like to help. Excuse me. In 2021, Schaefer Leadership Academy partnered with the city of Muncie to create GoServeMuncie.com because we recognized a very simple problem. Muncie is full of people, again, who want to and are eager to serve and get involved, but many don't know where to start. They don't know what boards and commissions exist, how to express that interest. They don't know how to make themselves available for that appointment. GoServeMunsee was created to help solve that problem. Again, GoServeMunsee.com. It's a free online resource that connects residents and opportunities to serve on city boards and commissions. It was built on a simple belief. Everyone should have an opportunity to serve. Not just those who happen to know the right person or hear about an opening at the right time. No matter what happens with ordinance 1426, one thing won't change. Our community will continue to need thoughtful, qualified, engaged citizens who are willing to step into leadership roles through service on our city's boards and commissions. If tonight's discussion inspires just one more person to consider serving on a board or commission, then I think that's a positive outcome that we can all agree with. I'd also like, while I'm here, to ask for your help. In the past year alone, we have had 51 Muncie residents who have created a GoServeMuncie profile. 51 in the last year. That's encouraging. But we know there are many more people in Muncie with the skills, experience, and desire to serve. With your help, we can connect even more of them to these opportunities. I would encourage the council, the mayor, anyone involved in the appointment process to help us strengthen and promote GoServeMunsee.com. Tell residents about it when they ask how they can get involved. encourage people from every neighborhood, every walk of life to get involved, create a profile, express that interest in serving. Please also share your ideas on how we can improve this resource so it becomes even more valuable to the people of Muncie. That goes for everyone, by the way. Anyone that has any suggestions on how we can improve this process, we want to hear from you, okay? Most of all, I would encourage you to use Go Serve Muncie as a resource when it comes time to make board and commission appointments. Go Serve Muncie was never intended to belong to Schaefer Leadership Academy alone. It was created as a community resource in partnership with the city of Muncie. And like any community resource, it's strongest when the entire community helps shape it, improve it, and when we use it. And to everyone watching in the room or online, if you've ever wanted to help shape the future of Muncie's, this is your invitation. Go to goservemuncie.com, create a profile, raise your hand to serve because our community isn't strengthened by one ordinance or one meeting. It's strengthened when people choose and are given the opportunity to serve. Thank you for your time. And most of all, thank you all, each one of you, for your commitment to this community. As a former council member, I know that this is a tough job. And I know you guys work tirelessly in representing your respective districts in the city of Muncie. So thank you all for your community service.

Thanks.

Mr. Barber.

Mine quite ain't as polished as Jeff's was, but I'm Audie. You need to decide whether this is going to be effective immediately if this passes or if you're going to grandfather the people that's already in these committees in. And that's a big ideal there. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Ellen Whitehead. I am a Muncie resident and my views do not represent those of my employer. I agree that city government works best when the public has confidence that decisions are being made fairly and independently. This ordinance reinforces that principle by creating clear.

Slime that is in this city government is quite frankly more than you would see in other cities. I'm proud of this city. I love this city I go into every single one of these meetings hope that hoping that every single one of you makes me proud a lot of you Disappoint in that regards a lot of the time but I do I do and I think that all of you You know, I don't want to accuse you of any of you of being in lockstep of the mayor I don't want to do that. I think that's been done enough already But I think a lot of you need to do the right thing and you need to vote in favor of this thing Thank you.

Good evening, my name's Chris Smith. I wasn't planning on speaking on this issue tonight, but sometimes you get inspired by people to speak about something you're not really planning to. So I'd like to commend, is it Cheyenne? Because she made me think and kind of inspired me to say something. If you just take out of the mix Take this issue out of you don't want department heads serving on things, whatever that is. If you can do something to engage more people civically, why wouldn't you do it? About a year and a half to two years ago, I decided I wanted to become more civically involved. It wasn't easy to do. I had to reach out to multiple people. Did it happen? Yes. I currently serve on the Muncie Planning Commission. Do I enjoy it? Yes, I do. So if you take all that other stuff out and you just ask yourself, do we want people, citizens, to be more civically involved, would that help? If you answer, I don't see how you could not answer yes to that question. Thank you.

Thanks.

Audie Barber again. You're president of the council. You're not God. You can't just say that I'm going to limit it to three minutes. You've got regulations that you have to follow, young man.

I ask legal counsel.

You have to vote on it. Anyhow, anyhow, it really upsets me how I used to come in here and get pretty angry. Used to. This is nothing what I used to do. Your actions up there would have got you escorted out of here had you been eight years ago, okay? Your actions up there are not professional. Say what you want to say. They were not professional, Mr. Green. And if you would like, if you get too hot-headed, and you feel like you need to resign, I'll get you a piece of paper. Don't be that way to these people. These are the taxpayers of Muncie, Indiana. You don't act like that because you are on that side of the table, not this side. Thank you.

Good evening once again. If I could just really quickly, as you decide on your vote, the only thing I would request is, and maybe legal counsel can maybe speak to whether it is or not, but the police and fire pension boards are a statutory requirement that we have. They require four active members plus retired member. And then by statute, I'm the president of that board, which I know would still be through. I would just ask that maybe a carve out for those two boards. They're voted on by the active members and the retirees, so I wouldn't want something coming back and saying that maybe a member of my staff can't serve on that board. So if you would consider that, I would appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you, Chief.

Do you want to speak to that?

Since I've been called upon, I do believe section 4B of the ordinance would address that particular concern. It says that nothing in this ordinance shall be construed to prohibit service that is expressly required by Indiana statute. Right.

Right.

Mr. President.

Yes, Mr. Mason.

I'd like to read a statement. Being the sponsor of this ordinance, I think it's an important step towards strengthening transparency, accountability, public confidence in Muncie's government. It is not about questioning the integrity of department heads. It's about establishing clear, ethical boundaries that help protect both public officials and the public we serve as a council. This ordinance promotes independent decision making, reduces conflicts of interest and the appearance of conflicts, and protects department heads from being placed in situations where their administrative duties could conflict with board responsibilities. Adopting this ordinance reinforces the separation of responsibilities that strengthens the integrity of both boards and commissions and the executive branch. It establishes consistent ethical standards, help prevent future disputes and demonstrates the council's commitment to sound governance practices. Passing this ordinance would send a clear message that this council and the city of Muncie values, transparency, accountability, and the responsible stewardship of the public's trust.

any other comments this evening by council i do i'm going to just mention a couple things why i do not like this ordinance just vote on it it's my time to speak now mr barber thank you um first of all you do not make legislation i agree with you patty based on you Not liking one person or a department head. I don't like all the department heads. I'll just make it public. But I'm not going to sit there and make legislation because I have a beef with a person.

Sorry.

Next. I'm not done talking. It's my turn. You'll have your time to come and respond back. Second thing, no, it's my time, please, because you guys all fight for your time, I'm fighting for mine, thank you. The second thing, I'm fine, I will be done in three minutes, you're right on that one. Expertise, you take department heads out of some of those committees. these department heads are the expertise they are the liaison to the city they know they know things about laws ordinances how to speed up that it doesn't matter somebody has the best intentions to serve and these are my opinions just like everybody else i'm just explaining myself to you that they have that some people will take a longer time to learn, number two. And third, it's that separation. We get to pick. The mayor cannot come and tell me do not appoint somebody as a council person on a committee. It's none of, excuse my language, his business. I do not, and it's none of my business to tell him, as a mayor, who to appoint. You have to have that separation. Now, if you believe a department head has done something wrong, we have created an ethics commission. Go file a complaint. Go to the human resource. Don't just take it on Facebook. and make our city look bad when there's no bone, no beef. Do not accuse somebody of doing something wrong that has not done anything wrong just because, just a minute, I'm not done. Just because you think they did something wrong. If you have something on somebody, I encourage you, go to the human resource. If they don't do anything about it, come tell us. Go to the ethics commission. If they don't do anything about it, come tell us. But we need to, I mean, there should be separation you know what and yes and that's for the next mayor and yes that might be a consequence and yes maybe I can come back and you know bite my tongue or whatever but the thing is I will never support a legislation based on some one person or create new legislation because I don't like a department head or I don't like the mayor sorry and that is how I'm going to explain my vote and that's it mr. president

Yes, I don't know where you're getting that.

Tell me about this.

I mean, it ain't against nobody. It's not about questioning the integrity of any department here. I don't have any beef with any department here. I wrote this ordinance because I think it's the right thing to do.

Well,

On conflict of interest, question for Roe. Yes, please. OK, so let's say you have a department head on a commission, and there's going to be budget restrictions inevitably. And the commission has to decide for its department what it's going to do, like what budget it's going to submit. Let's say this department head of another department then says, well, if I try to vote and do something in that commission to restrict that funding, then my department's okay. Do you see that as a conflict of interest?

I see that, but I just want to remind you, commissions are not just made out of one person. Commissions are not just all voted for by the mayor or all by the city council.

Well, I mean, the Human Rights Commission is mostly the mayor, right?

I'm sorry?

I mean, the Human Rights Commission is mostly the mayor, right? Like six out of the nine. Six out of you, right? The council only gets three.

And if you don't like that, you can approach any of us and we'll change that composition if you feel like it's not fair. But we do not make legislations based on one person.

It's not about one person. I think that Harold just told you that, right? Do you, what's your response to Harold, what he just said?

I think it is. I honestly think there's been a lot of talk and I've heard people from council, people from the public, and all this accusation, it's not very, it's not grounded. And if there's an accusation, go to the ethics committee.

Well, I don't think that anybody's saying there's a particular thing that was done by this department head on human rights. No one's accusing anything like specifically happened. It's just that there are things that can come up, like that hypothetical I just gave you, right? I understand. Okay.

Mr. Green, if I could step in. There's a couple things I think are going on that are going to make things difficult. Number one is people are talking over each other, which is going to make the minutes a mess. Would recommend we move things along here. Sorry.

I'm sorry, Mr. Aziz. Do you have something else?

I'm just going to wrap up and just say, I think with the human rights, and I'm sure a lot of commissions have had issues like this, but with human rights, there have been a lot of just, I think, power grabs with it over time and a lot of restrictions of less and less. Sorry, are you looking at someone?

Who, me?

No, I'm sorry. Okay.

I'm thinking.

All right.

Translating in my head. I apologize.

There's been a lot of restrictions, a lot of power grabs to it. It used to have, you know, I think at the most like four staff members, 15 commissioners at one point instead of nine. It there was a period of time where the mayor at the time, Alan Wilson, actually restricted it to where instead of the executive director being chosen by the commission, it was then chosen by the mayor. And that took a few years for it to be reverted. And there's also just been a lot of stuff where even though in city code it does say diversity is important for it, and especially what it's meant for people of color in Muncie, even then there's just been a lot of mayors who just don't apply any diversity to it. And to be honest, that's kind of where we're at right now. I'm not saying that's the core reason to do this or anything, or one of the main reasons to do it. That's the thing about human rights. I just want to point that out. But yeah, that's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can I mention one more thing?

When I was talking about our ordinance,

Thank you so much.

When I was talking about the representation on the Human Rights Commission, I might have forgotten to mention the word shell, because in our ordinance it says shell, and it mentions the different individuals that should be represented on the commission, and that is why I brought up the fact about the clergy, because religion is one of the shells categories, and See, right now, we don't have a clergy or anybody of religious representation on our commission, and I'm speaking from our ordinance itself, And that is why I feel that I want to make sure that we have the proper representation on our commission, because that's what our ordinance says for that commission. So I can only speak to that portion of it. And this ordinance you guys are looking at addresses that piece.

May I?

I have a response. May I? Yes, sure.

Ms. Linda McQuay, I was on that commission, and besides this last time, which was a city council appointee, it was Mr. Andre Mitchell, correct? But we've always had clergy, and it was a council appointee, and if you are saying there's no clergy, I think we missed the ball here because we didn't appoint a clergy. So whoever, this goes to the mayor, and this goes to the council. So you are right, you're 100% right, but we've always, from when I was serving, we've had clergy, it was either the mayor appointed the clergy, if not, it was the city council. So we missed the ball on the clergy, but that's on us. Our last appointment was our appointment, not the mayor's appointment, just to be fair.

I want to address directly Roe's comments. I understand the argument, though I don't agree with it, that there are a lot of very civically minded people who are currently heading departments, who are currently serving on boards, who want to be involved civically, that are upset that this ordinance could affect that. I understand that argument. I do have an issue, however, with these allegations of some kind of conspiracy against the mayor, against department heads, saying all this stuff without being clear about what it is and without actually backing up your words. Words are just words.

If I may respond, how many times did you hear about that one lady's name on the Human Rights Commission brought over and over?

I do not go to Human Rights Commission meetings.

Her name was brought up several times or insinuation of that.

Okay, that's good. That's good. I'm glad you brought that up. What did you say?

I said let's not talk over each other one at a time.

Apologies, apologies. I'm sorry. I'm done. And again, I'm glad you brought that up, and I'm glad you're saying this. I mean, personally, I think it... reaches a bit under this idea of a grand conspiracy. There's certainly maybe something there, but I feel as if it's just disappointing if you're gonna make these allegations, if you're gonna say these things, you should back them up. You should be clear about what is happening here, especially as citizens of the city of Muncie who may not be exactly aware of all of this. So I just wanted to say that.

Thank you.

Anyone?

Mr. Shanks.

Since you addressing my comments role.

Yes.

So my concern with that individual person, yes, because that person serves on the human rights commission.

Yeah.

And if a complaint was brought to the human rights commission about the city and that person working directly for the mayor, there's a high possibility that person will go back and tell the mayor what the complaint was. And the other issue was, You were not at the meeting, at the Human Rights Commission meeting, when the executive director was suspended, and they were just trying to decide who's going to answer the telephones for the executive director. And that department head said, I can answer the phones. So my example was, if a call comes in with a complaint against her department, and she's answering the phone, what do you think she's going to do with that complaint? She's not going to answer the phone Community Development. She's going to ask the Human Rights Commission. They don't know that they're talking to the person that they're making a complaint against. So that's just an example. But the example is, let's do something about it so that doesn't happen. So we're not just talking about this lady, this lady, this lady. That's just an example. So the way you fix it so it doesn't happen, don't put any department heads on there. That's the issue. So you're taking it personal, and it's not.

No.

OK. Terry Moore. I wonder how many times people are allowed to come up and speak on a thing. Some have been up here, too. I know. They should be limited to one, shouldn't they?

Yes. Limited to one? One time speaking.

One time speaking, Audie. It's funny that some of the people that come up here and make the loudest comments about you council, one doesn't pay any property taxes. The others are late on paying their property taxes. Anyway, that's beside the point. I think we've talked about this enough. Why don't one of you? Why don't you call for the question? Somebody call for the question. We've talked about this long enough.

Question, please. I call question.

Call for a question.

I called for a question.

We have to take a vote on question being called. So you're making a motion to call question because then we need a second and we need a vote on calling question.

Oh, wait, I have a question.

Council. So is that is that is correct. Is it is time for the council to address these motions? Yes.

Is this going to are we going to add a motion in terms of whether or not so we do go when we do go to a second?

Do we have to following the question does require a second? Yes.

Do we have a second?

Yes. Second.

Now we'll go to vote.

Yes.

Okay. Roll call, please.

McIntosh?

No.

Basham?

Yes.

Mason?

No.

Dishman?

Yes.

Garrett? Yes.

Selby? Yes.

Gillian?

No.

Powell?

No.

Green?

Yes.

Give me a moment.

That was for question, was it not? That was for question. And now we have vote.

Could I have just a moment?

Yes, sir.

It is affirmative vote of a majority of the council members present. Five. That means the question has been called and that motion has passed.

OK. Now we vote.

So now we vote on the ordinance.

We do need a motion to adopt as amended since the amendment was passed.

So moved. I'll second.

Selby? No.

McIntosh?

Yes.

yes no no yes yes no no now we need a motion to vote that did it yes

New ordinances. Ordinance 15-26.

Ordinance 15 that.

Yes, Mr. Dishman.

I'd like to make a motion to withdraw this. Withdraw? Withdraw, yes. No, no, no. OK.

Ordinance 15-26 has been withdrawn.

Actually, council, with regard to a zoning ordinance, it requires a majority vote of the council to withdraw an ordinance.

OK. So we need to vote on it?

So we do need to vote upon that.

It can be. There can be withdrawal, but it needs to be voted on.

OK. So we're voting on the withdrawal?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Brings us to resolution 10-26. We need to have a motion to move out of committee. Do we have a motion?

I so move.

I'll second that.

We need to vote on that. Rule call.

Read the ordinance.

Dishman. Just read it. Go ahead and read the ordinance. Bring it out of committee. Bring it out of committee.

Yes. Mason. Yes. Basham. Yes.

Garrett.

Yes.

McIntosh.

Yes.

Mullian. Yes. Selby. Yes. Powell. Yes. Green.

Yes. I need a motion to adopt Resolution 10-26.

I make a motion that we adopt Resolution 10-26. Do we have a second? I'll second that.

Any questions or comments from council? Any comments from the... Can you read it? Yes.

Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. 1026 additional appropriation resolution of the Common Council of the City of Muncie, Indiana relating to fire station number five project.

Have someone wishing to speak on this from the audience? See no one roll call, please. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Right. Resolution 1126. We need a motion to move off committee.

I'm so move to move it off.

Second.

Resolution 1126, authorizing the entry by the city of Muncie, Indiana, into a agreement and related documents for the for fire station number five project and taking certain other actions related thereto.

We need a roll call to bring it off committee.

So yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. We have a motion to adopt Resolution 1126.

I'll make a motion to adopt Resolution 1126.

I'll second that.

Anyone wishing to speak on this resolution? Yes.

I'd just like to have the financial people explain to the public what this what this actually does. I think a couple of people were asking about it. It's a good time for them to explain it.

Gentlemen, if you could come forward.

Hi, Jacob McClellan with Bose McKinney and Evans. We're serving as your bond counsel. I thought Greg was in the audience and might speak to it. But this authorizes the construction contract. So this is separate from the financing. The financing is through the building corporation and the lease is the kind of operative document for the financing. But this is to proceed with the build, operate and transfer construction contract.

And can you explain that to the public, please, build, operate, and transfer, what that says?

So Greg essentially is, if you award it to Greg Martz, it will essentially be, he'll be kind of your manager to build the fire station. He'll operate it for a portion of time, and then he will transfer it back over to the city, and there will be a fixed contract amount in that contract.

Thank you.

Yep. Oh, Greg's here, sorry.

Good evening, Council. My name is Greg Martz. I'm with GM Development. Just so you know a little bit about the timing of what would occur after this, I know we've talked about this in previous council meetings, but just so you have it on the record and anyone who may not have seen those, it will take about six months to finish the design of the fire station. It will take about 15 to 16 months to construct it. While the design of the new station is occurring, there's a temporary station on Jackson that will be constructed and it will take approximately the same time that it will take to design. So actually there will be, activity occurring very quickly. That temporary facility is where the Little Red Door used to be located across from, basically across from Wendy's on Jackson. That construction will take almost the same exact time that it'll take to design. So there will be activities occurring very quickly. And then what the thought process would be is by the time that the construction on the temporary facility is done, then the staff, the fire department, can move out of the existing Station 5, and then the existing Station 5 would then be demolished, and that would be when that roughly 14- to 16-month construction period would begin on the new station.

Thank you. Any other questions? I have a question.

Yes. Mr. Martz, will the temporary structure be able to house the aerial truck?

No, it will not.

Why not? Just curious.

Just because of the size of the bays.

Okay.

Any other questions from council? Any other questions from the audience? Roll call, please.

Mason?

Yes.

Fishman?

Yes.

Dolan?

Yes.

Cashin?

Yes.

McIntosh? Yes. Garrett?

Yes.

yes yes yes on that the public comment I want to remind you public comment you have three minutes to speak miss Patty Goddard please council's not to comment with the list We are to listen to what they have to say.

Was that voted on?

No, ma'am, it was not.

Does that require a vote? Mr. Murphy, we can do it next meeting, but I'm just curious why we can't address our constituents when they come to council to express their concerns.

The president has... I had a difficult meeting tonight. The president's putting in some limitations, which he's entitled to do. However, with regard to procedures of the meeting, we should probably at some point address some procedural requirements on these matters and perhaps some rules.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yes, I sure will. I think it's better up there anyhow.

Has the timer started?

No, it has not. Okay.

There you go. Thank you.

I truly came just to give this statement. So I apologize that I contributed. Well, actually, I don't apologize. I meant every word I said. But I'm not going to introduce myself. But I do want to thank you, President Green and members of the city council, as well as the clerk's office, for allowing me to speak tonight. I do appreciate the opportunities to address you. The comments I am making this evening are again, my own professional observations as the city human resources director and are not intended to represent the official position of the mayor, the city council, or any other city official department or employee. The term public servant is one we use often, but I think it's worth taking a moment to reflect on what it truly means and what it does not mean. Every day, city employees come to work with one purpose, to serve the residents of Muncie. Whether they're answering phones, repairing streets, maintaining our parks, responding to emergencies, or providing countless other services, they are committed to serving this community with professionalism, courtesy, and respect. Public service is exactly that, service. But serving the public should never require accepting personal abuse. Recently I witnessed an interaction between a city employee and a member of the public. The employee remained calm, respectful, and genuinely tried to help. Unfortunately, before they were ever given the opportunity to respond, they were met with profanity, personal insults, to include that of insults of her family members, Accusations that had nothing to do with the issue they were trying to resolve. That interaction reminded me of something important and it's been mentioned here tonight. Holding the government accountable, it's not only appropriate, it is essential. However, we welcome the questions, we welcome the concerns, we welcome constructive feedback just as everyone in this room does. But there is a difference between disagreeing with government and personally attacking the people who are simply doing their jobs. Our employees are our neighbors, they coach our sports, they volunteer in our community, they attend local churches, and most importantly, they raise their families in this community. They deserve to be treated with the same dignity and respect they strive to show every member of the public. So before I conclude, I do want to do a brief reminder to fulfill my responsibilities under that code of ethics that I mentioned earlier. I know I only have three minutes.

Thank you for your comments. Thank you. You've gone over your three.

Am I over? Yes. OK, thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Oh, sorry, Mr. Rick Yanser. Did he leave?

He went out to the restroom.

Okay, can we, Ms. Rita Faulkner, please. She left. She left, okay. Ms. Karen Brubaker.

As you said, I'm Karen Brubaker. Didn't know if I would have anything to say up here this evening or not. I will say I'm disappointed because I feel like you voting down, unless I misunderstood something, the department heads 1426. With just the people that came up here and are here tonight and talked and agreed with the people that were talking, I feel like you're not listening to your constituents and you're not representing us. And it's always my understanding that that's what you're here for. So I'm gonna say that, and then I'm gonna say off the subject totally, but I've been here enough to hear a lot about the industry neighborhood and their lack of a community center for 20 years now. And I think you need to do the right thing and get them a community center in their neighborhood.

Is mystery answer back? No. Okay, thank you. Mr. Bilbrey.

Okay. I was going to come up and apologize about getting upset earlier, and then I listened to you attempt to tell the council that they can't address us. I listened to your attorney say that this has been a difficult meeting. It's 9-12. It's not been a difficult meeting. We've been here until 2 o'clock in the morning before. That's a difficult meeting. This is not a difficult meeting. You guys are our public servants. We just heard about public servants. And while I might agree or disagree with what you should or shouldn't do to an employee of the city, I don't hold you, the elected public, the elected people in these seats, in the same position. I don't thank you for letting us speak. I thank our founding fathers. I thank the men and women who died for us to have this right, not you guys. If any of you served your country, thank you for that. But you did not allow me to speak here tonight. Our founding fathers did. You will not ever silence me. Maybe I came in here with a chip on my shoulder because I feel like you've been disrespecting me since you have set your butt in that seat. And yep, I said butt this time. Because again, you refuse to communicate through email. And that's disrespectful. You sent one and I praised you for it. That bit me in the ass. I shouldn't have done that. Because then when I sent you the next email, we're back to the same old nonsense. Again, you guys don't get respect because you're council folk. You get a baseline level of respect because you're human, okay? Your level of respect dips because of how you treat us as elected officials. If you want us to speak, if you want easy meetings, just be easy, okay? I am not an idiot. I'm not a mean guy. I'm not a bad guy. You're not in danger. We're all okay. But I will not be bullied by employees. And I will not stand for these people being bullied. I don't care what Terry has to say. Thank God he's not an elected official, I guess. But as long as you work for the people out here, you will behave a certain way. And if you don't, you will get your butt ass, you'll get your ass slapped. Understand? Okay? You'll get it chewed on. And you'll get it every time. Now I am done allowing fools to make me angry. Okay? I'm going to try to be more respectful. From this point forward, I challenge you to do the same. You failed on the email challenge. I'm still gonna email you and I still expect you to email me back. But if you want respect, give it.

Mr. Wainscafe.

And I looked that up, Robert's rule of order said two-thirds votes to call a question for a question to pass. So in 2020, I gave all city council members a copy of that HOPE VI grant. I believe five of you sitting up here now were part of that council. and I tried to explain to you guys what it was. I'm talking about the community center. Nobody, I gave you to the next meeting to ask me questions. Next meeting came, nobody had any questions to ask. So I'm gonna explain what's some of the stuff that was in that HOPE VI grant for our community center. And the wording is taken directly out of that grant. These are all the things that were supposed to be included. Price Hall, to effectively deliver community and supportive services to Millennium residents. Community Center. The South Madison Community Center serves the children and young adults of Muncie and their homes in the surrounding industry neighborhood. Notice it said industry neighborhood. A new 15,000 square foot building is proposed with classrooms, a computer learning center, meeting and recreation facilities, plus office space for community and supportive services. A childcare center designed to accommodate 80 preschool age children. a grocery store, a 40,000 square foot urban grocery store to serve the Muncie Central Business District, East Central, Old West End, Industry, South Central Whiteley, and McKinley neighborhoods. That's everything that was supposed to have been included. All we're talking about is a community center. That was a $12.3 million project that we were supposed to get. Now we've been reduced From all of that stuff to just a community center, and on top of that, a raggedy building. And then in fiscal year 2008, Congressman Pence earmarked $343,000 for a new community center. $393,000? Okay. And that money was spent during the Tyler's administration. We still didn't get it. So the last thing I want to say, I want to read this, hope it doesn't pass my time. This is also in the HOPE VI grant. The New Childhood Development Center in the South Madison Street Community Center will be located on a single site separated by a partially enclosed public plaza containing a small food court designed to serve the entire community. The public plaza will generate income from leases with which will supplement the operations of the new South Madison Community Center. So when people are asking, how are you going to pay for it? It was all in the HOPE VI grant, how that was going to be paid for. And we just did away with this. So we need our center. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Rodney Vaughn? I'm sorry if I misspelled your last name. Could you correct me with your last name, please, sir? Vaughn, thank you.

You know, my thing is this. The mayor is not even here. The mayor is not even here. He heard his little stuff, he ran. This all involves him because of what he did. And that's not right. That's not right. We had to sit through all the other stuff, so why couldn't he sit through and listen to what we had to say? I have a problem with that. We pay for him. He doesn't pay for us. We voted him in. Oh, I didn't, but y'all probably did. But that's not right. Okay, first of all, I grew up in Whiteley. I had the Beaulieu Center, which is no more Beaulieu Center. It's the Boys and Girls Club. They took it over, only because our mayor, The city's mayor sold it to the Boise Girls Club. That's one more community center gone. We grew up, had Carl at the multi. Grew up under him. Great, great person. They took that. They're taking all of our stuff. To me, I'm not trying to be racist, but it seems like it's in the minority neighborhoods where they're taking away from our kids. Our kids have nowhere to go. Then you wonder why they're getting in trouble. Then you wonder why they're running around here holding guns, why they're doing drugs, why they're into the same situations they're in. We can't fault us because we're doing our job as a parent, but we can't do it by ourselves. We need a community. It takes a village. to raise kids. Where's the village? When you take away everything that they have and need it, what else are they gonna do? But go to the streets. And I think it's wrong for the mayor not to be here to listen to us telling him how wrong he was. He made a deal for a community center that's not even in the industrial neighborhood. That's not benefiting us. How's our kids gonna get there? Because if they walk over there, it's going to be night when they come back. That's dangerous. The buses would be stopped running by then. So how are they going to get there? That's why we had the mall tied to a central location for all the people. That's all I got. Thank you, Mr. Blanchard.

Miss Daisy Dale.

just want to say that the uh so i'm trying to get some information about the civilian review board because i know that disbanded a few years ago so just if there's any information anybody has just like feel free to reach out to me let me know um i was curious with the community center because the memorandum for it said 1910 south mock avenue and in the recent announcement this last week it was 1912 so i was just curious if anyone knew the reason for it or not just

I don't. I didn't even catch that.

Oh, that's right, yeah. Just approach me afterwards if you know. Also, if the renovations would make it ADA compliant or not, I was curious about that too. There's a very tall set of stairs that go to and everything. Yeah, and also my last email. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Mr. Chip Taylor. Dr. Chip Taylor, I apologize.

I know it's been a long meeting. I'll keep this brief.

I want to say one thing about I was I was glad to hear on

you know, the, the rescheduled public hearing for a resolution eight 26 that, uh, the administration's committed to giving like a full accounting to the questions from council. My council member, Nora Powell is the only one I know. I know she's asked some pretty detailed questions and what I'd heard so far, not gotten much response back. So I'm, I'm glad, um, I mean, we've seen the administration will show up and answer lots of questions when they want something. Because it's important. Fire station's important. So they came and they answered your questions. The questions about these audit reports are important, too. And so I hope Councilwoman Powell has everybody's support in getting those answers. The main thing I wanted to say was... You know, like, so Cheyenne Reed made some nice comments about the importance of civic engagement, people wanting to get involved. The gentleman's on the planning commission, he talked about some stuff. I wanna say that the ordinance, you know, tonight voted down aside, there are lots of other things that can be done to improve citizen engagement on some of these boards and commissions. And so the first thing I would tell people, not to wait to be invited. If you think you've got some experience and expertise to bring to bear on some of these boards and commissions, then don't wait to be invited. Like Jeff Robinson said, go to Schaefer Leadership Academy, put your name in on Go Serve. I don't know if that'll help, but I know it won't hurt anything. And but I would also encourage you to like email the mayor and your council members and let them know. And I, you know, and also recognize, too, it's like once you do that, you're getting involved in small P politics. So people may have opinions about whether you should serve or not. And like, that's just got to be OK. But the council can do more. Right. I mean, I've seen you all before when you've had like two, two people for one seat, like they were good. Good, you know, both good appointees. I've heard you say, boy, this is tough. That's a good situation to be in. You should want more rodeo because you're not sure, like, what's got to be appointed or this and that. There are some other, like, boards, like, they're kind of off cycle. They come later in the year. But, like, I think there's a point toward the end of one year where you know, like, all the appointments and reappointments are going to come up the next year. The guy that's on the planning commission, he mentioned how hard it was even to – You know, you go to, they don't list who the members are. They don't list where their terms are. That's required by law. You can't find anything else. I know I'm about out of time, so I'll stop. The boards and commissions need to clean up their websites and make sure the information they need by law is there. Thank you.

Ms. Cassandra Woods.

two point five minutes didn't mean My name is Cassandra Woods, and I'm here representing the children of the industry neighborhood from our community. In 2002, the city of Muncie received the HOPE VI grant that designated the industry neighborhood as the most distressed neighborhood in this city. That grant set aside $393,000 specifically it could actually reach. That promise now, 24 years old and still, I attended the advisory committee meeting to present these facts. I was cut off after three minutes and told the room follows the same rule as such requirement. The next morning, I saw Mayor Ridenour say in a video that a vote had been taken to place the new center at the Mock Street Church. I was in that room. There was no vote. There was discussion and nothing more. Here's why the location matters so much. Mock Street Church sits outside the industry neighborhood. Census data confirms that industry is 63.7% black children compared to roughly 9.6% citywide. This is not a minor statistic. It means the neighborhood the HOPE VI grant was built to serve is overwhelmingly the same community that will be cut off from the resource it was promised simply by moving the location outside of its boundaries. For our children, without transportation, the walk to Mock Street Church is approximately 2.1 miles. That is not a walk you send a child on alone. The entire purpose of the HOPE VI grant was to serve the neighborhood identified as the most in need. A center built outside that neighborhood does not fulfill that promise. It breaks it, actually. and it breaks it specifically for the children the grant named. This isn't about convenience. It's about safety, access, and keeping a commitment this city has made to families who have waited over two decades to see it honored. I'm asking this council to look at the original grant documentation, confirm that no vote was legally taken on this location, and ensure that any final decision keeps this center where it was always meant to be in the industry neighborhood where the children for the children it was built for and they can actually get to it thank you for your time miss judith

I'm a Muncie citizen. First, I want to say that we need transparency. Coming from the top, the mayor is the top. Why would he go and give his State of the Union whatever he called it and say that it was passed about this community center. Now I know We have a loss of finance in Muncie, but this doesn't have anything to do with that center. That money was appropriated years ago. But people seem to forget this. We have neighborhoods. We have boundaries. We have maps. I want you to tell me, would the west side of Muncie allow their neighborhood center be placed out of their community in the neighborhood like they did us? Or trying to? Trying to. We have been talking about this center for years, but nobody seems to... say the right thing about it, or else either you wasn't born here, you don't know about it, or you think you have the power to keep it from being built. This is nothing new. We come here every, I've been coming to these meetings for years. What do they do? the people out here speak and talk the truth, and you sit up there and vote it down. Every time. You don't have to be an Einstein to know the truth and to follow the truth. The same people that band together, no, no, four of you, five of you, always band together. After these people spent all this time speaking, what they want, not what you all want because of political affiliation, something needs to be done. It's not this city of Muncie is corrupt. You all know it. You are a part of it. You need to do something about it.

Mr. Terry Moore, you put a, no, okay. Thank you. Mr. Paul Partizano.

He can't speak at all.

He didn't want to.

No, he can't speak.

Good evening. Paul Partizana from Muncie. And I hear everybody in the room talking, and I'm with you. That's not what I came up to talk about, but hey, don't give up. Don't give up. Let's do the right thing. I'm going to talk on a statewide and then a countrywide scope for a minute or two. It is now illegal to be unhoused in Indiana. A lot of our friends and family members are about to lose their Medicaid benefits. Rural hospitals are in danger of closing. Also, three US Supreme Court justices are apparently okay with striking amendments from the US Constitution merely by executive fiat. And we're in the midst of an illegal war that is taking the lives of many, including innocent children whose only crime was going to school. Now I know the midterms are not the city elections, but early voting begins Tuesday, October 6th at 8.30 a.m. If you're as disillusioned as I am with our state and federal government, I urge you to be a part of the solution and vote for those who strive to be on the right side of history. Thank you.

Mr. Carl Malone.

Good evening, Board. First of all, Carl Malone, I serve on not only the city of Muncie's park system, but also industry neighborhood as the current president. So two years ago, we had a retreat in Angola, Indiana, and I think Dale Bashman represented the council. I think he was the only one that was there. At that time of conversation with the mayor was to right the wrong, um, in reference to the community center being built, being that it was torn down 20, 20 something years ago. So from that, we fast forward to having conversation about how important it was to have the community center, uh, in industry neighborhood. We spoke about how long it had been down and we still, we spoke about the lack of communication with our residents. We've lost all contact with families during that time. So in 2012, under Dennis Tyler's administration, we were allowed to get the key, some insurance, and open up Garfield School. At that time, we had zero kids. It was probably 30 days or 60 days. We were up over 90 kids. And then by the end of a summer, we had about 260-some kids. In that building and they came from all over the community because we had some some real good programming one of the programs we had was the gun violence initiative that we were awarded a grant by Old National Bank and We had billboards up around the city, and we had educational people coming in, teaching our community about how to report, the importance of reporting gun violence in our community. As you know, we're still plagued with gun violence. But I will say, during that time, we had a real good handle on how to report. We lost the building due to some funding. There's not been an opportunity to have another meetup place to talk about that initiative. So when we talk about the importance of a center, the fact that we lost a center in its new neighborhood, that allowed us to have our meeting places and discuss any issues that we wanted to discuss. If we leave this building tonight and we want to have a meeting tomorrow, we don't have a meet-up place to discuss our social ills. I'm a resident from the industry neighborhood. I worked in the community centers when I got home from the military. I was at Bewley Center. I was at Ross Center. I was at South Madison Community Center. And we were promised a new building. And had I known that that wasn't going to happen, I probably would have stood in front of the wrecking ball when it hit South Madison Community Center. Because we definitely was bamboozled to think that there was going to be a new center in Industry Neighborhood. And so for that, I would hope that we can, as a community, that we understand the importance of a community center being put in Industry Neighborhood.

sorry i just miss lynn thornburg

Whoops, OK. I always sign up just in case. Sometimes I have something on my mind when I come here. Other times I think if I don't sign up and something comes up, then I lost my shot. And one comment, because Ro, when you were talking, you said something to the effect that if something's wrong or there's a problem, then approach you guys and you'll work on it and evidently that must have happened because a council person sponsored that ordinance that brought up the problem and and i'm sorry that it seemed like you know just from comments that it was specifically one person but i think it was you know to help the transparency and uh you know allow other people to serve but not give the impression that the administration has a stronghold on the different boards and commissions that make decisions that impact our lives. And so that's my comment about that.

Thank you.

And we do need to figure out something for the homeless, because there are so many people that are unhoused, and we've just got to figure that out somehow.

Thank you. Thank you.

mr. Audie barber miss Thornburg you stole my thunder shame on you okay start my timer little Chicago let that sink in a minute but not on my time little Chicago that's a reason we're called that I just hope the Ball State paperwork that you guys received is as better as than the community center. It's another piece of paperwork. If you won't return emails, you won't address us here when we're asking you questions, when the heck are you gonna answer us? What gives you the right to do that? These folks wanna speak, they're elected by us, not by you. Not by you. And if they wanna speak, they have the right to speak. Walgreens may be a nice little building. It might be right outside of their area, but Walgreens on 12th and Madison would probably be a better selection than the church. Why are you shaking your head knowing and talking to somebody else? You're supposed to be listening to me.

Who are you talking to?

She knows who I'm talking to. How can we trust the council Like this lady said, how can we trust the council to help us when you had seven, eight, 10, 12 people up here wanting you to support Mr. Mason's action, Mr. Mason's introduction? You guys wouldn't even support it. How can we trust you to do that when you won't even support the people that's here talking about it? Some of you folks, and I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing, only up there by three or four votes. You think... These 7 or 8 or 10 or 12 people could change the tunes of an election. Three votes. Think about it. Three votes. And five of you guys told these people you didn't care what they thought about this. Just told them straight out, we don't care. We're going to vote for the mayor. Bullshit. Arrest me. very disappointed in this council I'm telling you what I used to have a pretty bad attitude when I came up here very bad you know I mellowed out for a while did I not miss pal oh you can't answer that you're not allowed to you know the city of paid several lawsuits off for stupid stuff like this there's been other towns it's had to pay lawsuits off for stupid stuff like this So you guys need to think about that and if your attorney great guy like mr. Murphy But if he's too lazy to sit there for two or three hours Maybe he needs to resign to turn your paperwork in folks turn your paperwork in if Monday night once a month is too busy for you, then turn your paperwork in, resign your post, because most of you will not be elected again. Thank you.

Mr. Terry Moore.

Terry Moore. I'm born and raised in the city of Muncie. I am a taxpayer. I actually pay property taxes, and I pay mine on time. Several things. We have a school board member here. When I was a kid, we had recreation in schools. Why can't the schools have recreation like we did back in the 60s? I think that would be a good thing. It's a shame that the people that want you guys to respect them don't seem to want to respect you guys. You guys are city employees, too, just like the HR lady talked about the person that was being berated, but they stayed calm. You guys shouldn't have to be berated like that from somebody that just doesn't like you because of who he is, gives him fodder. That's what he wants, his plot, or good for you for not answering his emails. So that's all I have to say.

I didn't say your name.

No, I didn't.

I didn't say your name.

You said this conversation. Point of order.

Point of order. Ms. Janetta Presley.

Or.

We're going to be on the internet.

Yeah.

I'm Janetta Presley, and I live here in Muncie. I'm a peer recovery coach. I'm here because we have lost a member of our homeless community. Brian Bernard passed away. So he was one of my guys that lived in my house. He's around my neck. So our... We are failing our people very badly, especially our homeless and mentally handicapped. So we... He qualified for mental health care. And so we were working on that with medication, but he did not qualify for regular health care. And the medication they were giving him for the mental health took away all of his potassium and magnesium in his body and gave him a heart attack and killed him. because he didn't quote for medical care and only mental health. We lost him. He was on life support. He did really well. He graduated. And he was off of in-house arrest. He got married. He'd been married for two years. He did really great in our program at the house. And he had a job. He was doing well. And he was very young for this to happen to him. So we need to do something about this. Because now it's very close to me. I've lost one of my guys. One of my guys that I have taken a lot of care of. So, yes. And as you know, I'm still on hospice. I'm still not working. I have resigned from the church as the meal. I'm not doing the meal anymore. But this, something needs to be done. And I can't do it anymore. can't do it anymore but I just want you to know that we need to do something for mental health and regular health because he qualified for mental health care but he did not qualify for health care because of his work and his wife's work so thank you so much I'm sorry

President, can I say something real quick? Can I say something real quick? I'm speaking to everyone that came out today in support of the Industry Neighborhood Youth Center. I appreciate y'all coming out. The thing is, and Mr. Malone can attest to this, that our back's against the wall. When he stands up and promises that he's going to give the $500,000 or the park, it didn't matter. Whatever they want to do at Mock, I have no problem with that. But you needed to do the right thing first, what you said you were going to do. The council voted 9-0 that they wanted it in there. And so I'm going on record. If we're not going to put it in industry, I am no longer on the committee. Thank you.

entertain a motion for adjournment of the meeting.

So moved. I'll second. Second.