Town Council - Regular Meeting

The time is 7:30. The date is October 6, 2025. At this time, I will call the town of Mount Airy town council meeting to order. If you would please stand for the pledge of allegiance. Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. First up on our agenda this evening is the presentations portion and I will relinquish to Mayor Husher. Test test test. Okay, that's a little bit better. Uh Richard Turner is the chief executive offer officer of the Carol Media Center. So, it's a honor to have you here tonight. Very nice to see you.

Thank you, Mayor. And uh tonight what we have is a proclamation for the Carol Media Center uh that I'll read out recognizing all the service that they provide to our community and all the entertainment on TV. When we're done with our council meetings, we get to go home and watch it. So, and if we feel bad about it, we watch some of the other towns and that makes us feel better. So, not picking on anyone. Okay. Uh the proclamation reads as follows. Whereas the community media center of Carol County provides community members, nonprofit organizations, schools, and government agencies with the resources to produce and distribute digital media content of importance to their local communities. And whereas the community media uh center plays a vital role in civic participation by providing coverage of municipal meetings, local elections, and community events. And whereas the community community media center partners with our local schools and colleges with internship opportunities and celebrates our students uh student athletes with the CM Sports Nets awardwinning coverage of local sports and is developing CM Sportsnet Plus, a live streaming service featuring coverage from every Carroll County High School stadium and gymnasium. And whereas the community media center has established channel 18 as the first local cable access channel in the nation to provide 247 coverage dedicated to local sports programming. And whereas the community media center works to preserve our local history, provides a means for diverse communities to tell their stories and empowers individuals to create content to inform, connect, and improve the quality of life of our residents. Now therefore, be it resolved that October 20th, 2025 is

hereby proclaimed as community community media day within the town of Mount Ary and all residents are hereby called upon to promote the importance of community media. the services and training available at the community media center of Carroll County and the programming available on channels cable channels 18/1923 and uh highdeaf 1027 and online at carolmediacenter.org. So thank you. That's a mouthful. Well, that's a that's a a lot of media centers and and saying community without stumbling through it. So did you have a few words?

Thank you. Uh well, thank you, mayor. Also, thank you to the council members, um uh staff. Uh it's really a pleasure. This is a recognition that happens, uh usually annually across the country. Um and so it's really a pleasure to be able to highlight what we've done here in Carroll County and particularly in Mount Ary. Mount Airy is a model of using technology to engage the citizens. We're among the first that I was aware of that used this kind of capability in a remote fashion under which our staff is located back in Westminster. But we're able to continue to engage our residents. And when we look at our social media analytics, Mount Ary is among the highest of uh audience participation on within social media. So it clearly shows how it's a testament to not only what technology can do, but to your community and your residents. Uh so I want to thank my staff uh for the great work that they do. They are behind the cameras. You don't see them much very all uh but they're back in our control room making it possible. Um, and it's really a testament again to the model of what we can do in community when we have these resources available. So many many thanks.

Well, we look forward to a continued partnership. All right. Very good. Thanks. Uh, John, can we get a photo or stand up here as well?

You can send That's right. [Applause] What's going to say? All right. Next up on our agenda, we have our public comment portion of the meeting. How many people here wish to speak?

All right. Whoever would like to go first, please come up to state your name and your address for the record. And we have about two minutes.

I'll start. Uh, good evening um, council members. Good evening everyone. My name is Kira Kovaleovva. I am a Mount Airy resident and I live at 102 Parkidge Drive. So, I'm speaking tonight here with concern about ordinance 202519. Not because I disagree that our water and sewer system needs stable funding, but because this proposal imposes a rate hike on our water bills that is above the level of inflation and it locks area residents into an open-ended automatic increase cycle. In 2023, through ordinance 20237, the town already approved increases on our water bills up to 25% on some water rates and 33% on the sewer flat fee. Now, this new ordinance adds another 8% each year to consumption rates in 2026, 27, and 28. And as it is written now, those 8% increases keep repeating thereafter until changed by ordinance. That means that our town residents are placed on a rate escalator with no written in review requirement or accountability. Essentially, we have a ticking time bulb inside every mount area water bill. For a household ha for a household like mine, this translate into a 15% cumulative increase in water costs over the next three years, 2026 to 2028. Yet, official inflation is running around 3%, not eight. At the same time, our town property taxes were raised 18% in 2024. Energy costs are up. Not to mention that groceries and healthc care bills keep growing every quarter. I feel like every bill now I have to fight. This year residents of Frederick County received a 5% property tax rate increase on top of already higher property assessment from the state. Our town families and especially uh the part

of our population who are on fixed income simply will struggle to keep up with absorbing these rate shocks. The water and sewer commission's presentations as it was available to public uh clearly identified real needs agent infrastructure rising operating costs and a 6% budget deficit. And I understand about proprietary funding that it has to come from collecting uh the budgets from the residents. But fiscal responsibility should mean balancing sustainability with affordability. And from a community perspective, this is how it looks to town residents. You've probably heard this yourself. It's hard to understand how the town can afford a new police station and traffic roundabout yet not close this water budget gap. Therefore, I urge the council to revise this ordinance and one limit annual rate increases to the rate of inflation and no more and two require a transparent review and reassization in 2028 before any future rate increases take effect. I call on town to look for ways to strengthen the water and sewer fund without outpacing residents ability to pay, explore efficiencies, face capital spending, or seek infrastructure grants. Please do not give future town government a blank check to raise rates automatically. Thank you.

Thank you.

Whoever's next, feel free to come on up. Good evening. My name is Judy Gil and I am a town resident. Actually, my husband and I were born in Mount Ner, so 67 years. So, um this year, uh I have three um craft show um vendor shows events coming up and I just wanted to mention them. Go ahead.

Oh, no. Oh, I thought you were No, I do this because I'm trying to listen. Help me listen. Okay, that's okay.

That's okay. Um, the first one is the Mount Senior Center. It's on Saturday, November 8th. It is from 10 to 2. It's held at the senior center. The Mountaineer Volunteer Fire Company's having one December 7th from 10:00 to 3. It's held at the um MAVFC reception hall that's at the Carnival Grounds. Um my daughter and I have actually chaired this event for 14 years. Um we have people, it's well known, it's always the first um Sunday in December and it's got to be well known that we have people come from Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia, handover, all over the place now. So it's actually a pretty um welltraveled event. Very proud of it after 14 years. Um, Lisbon Volunteer Fire Company Auxiliary is Sunday, December 14th from 10:00 to 3 and it is held at Lisbon Volunteer Fire Company. All is free to the public to enter. Um, we have lots of homemade um, unique crafts. We do have a few vendors like Tupperware Cincy and Tastefully Simple and a few more. Um, but most of it is probably 95% homemade crafts in all three of these events. Um, you can find gifts for the holiday season, birthdays, babies, gifts, and more. Um, I'll be putting flyers out in the Mount Erie area. I walk about 95% of Mount Erie and put into the businesses. So, look for those. um please come out, bring a friend and support these um nonprofit organizations and we would appreciate it. And thank you very much.

Thank you very much for the information. Good evening, council members. My name is Linda Shaff and I live at 804 Candy Apple Avenue in Wildwood Park. And I just wanted to speak about the water and sewer rates. Um I spoke with our HOA president Diane Bis and um she had done some research and there was no significant increase since 2012. So in 13 years it's bound you're bound to need an increase. And we've come up with in three years at 8% annually it would be a 26% increase. if it's compounded. So, and if it's done that way, it would be the 26% increase. As long as some of this is going to go to help clean our water, that's our basic thing that we're concerned about. Uh we understand the remediation process was supposed to be helping by the end of this year and that hopefully the treatment center can be built by the end of next year. So, as long as some of that can go to that so that we can get some clean water in Mount Airy, that's what we're interested in.

Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else? Good evening, council members. Uh, I have two topics to speak on. I promise to be brief. My name is Emily Benase. My husband Kevin and I live at 1904 South Main Street. Uh I'm here to first speak in support of uh Councilman Demoter's motion to remove South Main reszoning from the master plan. Uh it's been mentioned that we should just revisit resoning at the 5-year mark, but that's actually just two years from now. Uh the facts surrounding South Main residents opposition are unlikely to change in that time. People might move, but is it really very likely that a new resident who just purchased a home is going to wish to have their property reszoneed to commercial? Especially because folks are generally going to have very little equity in their homes in less than 5 years. Why would anyone who just moved here reszone so their house can be knocked down other than overwhelmingly favorable economics on the deal? These homes will also remain affordable by nature of by virtue of their location size. Uh they will be historical in nature and with large lots and small town character. Uh I therefore wonder why Mr. Gent continues to refer to our neighborhood as optimal for commercial development. Uh and in the words of Councilman Demoter, this plan to build commercial buildings where my house now stands remains a uh house of cards under mild scrutiny. Uh, as for the water and sewer increase, I reviewed the water and sewer commission's presentation to the council and notably absent was any discussion of reducing operating costs. Residents of Ma Maryland have seen electricity bills increase by hundreds of dollars and I ask that you consider this fact before you increase the cost of basic necessities even further. Please do not follow the legislative example of Congress, which continuously increases spending with no discussion of cost-saving measures and contributed to our government's current predicament. Mount Arary residents should not have to bear the cost of poor budgeting and indifference to where the money is

spent. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Anyone else for public comment? Right. Hearing none, we have no speakers tonight. So, we'll move on to approval of council meeting minutes and close minutes. First up, we have the September 2025 town council meeting minutes. I'll make a motion to approve. Do we have a second? Second. Any discussion? All right, hearing none. All in favor of approving the Mount Town Council meeting minutes from September 8th, 2025, please signify by saying I. I. Opposed? All right. Then we have our September 2025 closed meeting minutes. The first one subject was litigation. I'll make a motion to approve. Do we have a second? Second. Any discussion?

Hearing none. All in favor of approving the September 2025 closed meeting minutes under litigation, please signify by saying I. I. I opposed. All right. And our next one was September 2025 closed meeting minutes. Subject was land acquisition. I'll make a motion to approve. Do we have a second? Second. Any discussion? All right. Hearing none. All in favor of approving the September 2025 closed meeting minutes under land acquisition. Please signify by saying I. I. I.

Opposed. All right. Thank you. And we have our civil air patrol report with first lieutenant Aaron Lavel. All right, that's really be great because I'm not even going to try to make an attempt at that. Perfect. Thank you so much. Thanks, Sean.

Uh, good evening everybody. Yet another month has has passed and uh we've had plenty of time to go ahead and and rack up a whole lot more activities for our cadetses and senior members. Um most uh significant activity for the month of September was that we had multiple different cadetses as well as senior members. Um spearheading the commander cup port uh the commander cup competition that's aerospace and character was the 27th and the 28th of this past month. Um one of the senior members was the primary organizer for both of those events. Um I they were both held at Glennel High School. Um we additionally I believe we had three other um yeah I believe we had three other men cadets that were major participants and organizers of those events. Um we also had total of six cadetses uh that participated in the uh training for the uh cadet advisory council during the month of of September. And the other thing we did is members helped move the majority of the squadron supplies out of the eyes of Walton league with only a few remaining. and we did just finish clearing that out this past weekend as well. Um the squadron provided a four-person cadet color guard for the 911 ceremony, held at Pine Tree or Pine Grove Cemetery on the 11th. Um as well as our squadron public affairs um officer took some pictures and I believe he provided that to the town as well. Um, the squadron assisted with the road closures for the Mount Area October Fest on the 27th. And it was a a uh it was it was a harrowing day from what I understand, a very long one, but uh four senior members and three cadets were responsible for both closing both ends of mount uh of Main Street as well as provided plenty of information and direct direction to the attendees. Uh we had one cadet earn the major milestone of passing the Airheart and will be uh ranking up to cadet captain or has already done so. and two cadetses uh promoted within the NCO ranks. Um the significant training that we had was was mostly focused around the cadet advisory council. Um however, we

did decide to take a little bit of extra time during the last week of September and we really focused on mental health safety. Um, unfortunately, it's something that we felt that has been overlooked too frequently and with the start of the school year, we've seen more reports of incidents and we've had more reports within our own squadron of people that are of teenagers that are struggling with that. So, we took an entire squadron meeting to really discuss it and um drill down on that and provide some resources for both seniors and cadetses. Um, we had two cadetses that did um orientation flights and our senior members are growing this this past month. We have two new senior members and uh two new middle school cadets bringing our total up to 46 um members. Uh the squad squadron's ground team is fully mission capable and uh multiple individuals are again available to support uh the ground operations, SUAS operations, radio and radio any radio needs. Uh the squadron van is just temporarily out of commission and uh Town of Country Auto is taking care of making sure we can open our back door. So um that should be uh back with us this week. Uh the operational problems, we're still looking for a new location. Right now we have been consistently though for three weeks at South Carol High School. We did try the public works building. We were really appreciative of it. Um, however, the indoor space was significantly smaller than what we needed and um, you know, and the so the opportunity to give it a try was great and the in an emergency situation uh, we would probably be able to use it again. However, it wasn't quite uh, it wasn't quite bright enough outside too um to be able to feel like it was safe enough for our cadets to be able to be out there. So, um, we have had inquiries still out there with the Monterey Volunteer Fire Company, um, to see if we can, you know, where that status is. Um, we provided them all the information that they

requested. However, we still have yet to hear anything back from them. Um, and as well as the senior center, this is the same situation. Um, we've requested more information there. You know, we've given them as much information as we can give them. Um, and we, you know, would be open to either location. Um, but until we have that, uh, our our supplies are located at the Maryland wing. Um, and then we will continue to meet at South Carol High School. It's not a bad option. It provides all the all the things that we do need. It has plenty of space. However, it doesn't keep us in the town of Mount Ary. Um, and what we have found is that people want it here. I mean, the town actually wants it here. where we've got members that are asking for it to come back within the you know mount area limits. So I that is that is where our goal is. Um on the horizon we uh plan to assist or rather we did assist um with the uh model rocketry day at the Maryland wing headquarters this past weekend and there will be both the emergency services um and the leadership events for the commander cup. the emergency services one will be held at the uh Maryland wing headquarters and the leadership event will be held at South Carol High School. Um and that'll be on the 11th and then the 25th. So I'm happy to answer any questions if anybody has any.

All right, a quick question. So um regarding the uh the fire company and the senior center, just a clarification. Are are are you in contact with somebody specific or are you emailing a general email box or might be getting lost? So um for the Manory um for for the volunteer fire department fire company it's um Sue and I can't remember her last name for the life of me. Um Sue. Yes. And um for the senior center you're now you're going to try my my brain here. Um it's not like a general email box.

No, it is not a general email box. it was specific individuals and we were told we were going to be put on the agenda for the v for the fire company. Um I don't know how frequently they meet um but we have yet to hear anything back and I did inquire um and and heard nothing. So okay, thank you. Yeah, appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next up we have the Mor volunteer fire company report, but I don't see Matt in the audience. So, we'll skip over that and go right to our Mount Air Police Department report with Chief Janevver.

Good evening, Mount Air community, Mr. Mayor, and Town Council. For calls for service, uh, the Mount Police Department had 550 calls for service in the month of September. And if anyone, this is a little joke here, if I get the month wrong, please somebody correct me. Please just correct me. Right.

So, um, yes. So 550 calls uh for service for the month of September. Uh 29.39 decrease of calls for service in comparison to September of 2024 where we had 779 calls for service. Uh for recruitment, we have three uh applications that have been submitted for lateral positions and one just recently, but it's not on my report here that we obtained um today. another application for an entry level. I'm happy to share also that I do have on there noted that one applicant for a lateral officer position that's still being processed. I am pretty much at 99% complete that I'm hoping to have a newly sworn officer for the town uh starting October 14th. and that'll be a lateral officer and they'll complete their 80 hours plus of field training and so forth with Mount Air Police Department. So, I'm happy to announce that for our K9 deployment with uh K9 Officer Evers and Paisley, four scans were conducted resulting in narcotic seizures and all of those investigations are still currently pending. the Mount Area Police Department along with several other agencies, the Carol County Sheriff's Department, the Mount Area Police Department, Maryland State Police Department, Westminster City Police Department, the Hamstead Police Department, and the Sykesville Police Department conducted a sobriety checkpoint here in Mount Airy at Route 27 at Center Street on August 25th. The results of that were 1,078 vehicle contacts conducted at this checkpoint, six drivers conducted on field sobriety test, 45 traffic stops, two arrest for driving while under the influence of alcohol, one arrest for pro uh possessing a controlled dangerous

substance, and one canine scan was also conducted at that time. some upcoming events. Um, October 18th is the third annual wagon tales event at Watkins Park. October 19th, something that is dear to me for the making sprites against uh breast cancer at 7 a.m. at Watkins Park. We still have shirts available if you'd like to sponsor and be a part of the mountary team. We're up to 22 uh individuals part of our team. U so hopefully you can join or just be a part of that if you'd like to make donation. uh all proceeds if you do donate to the Mount Area Police Department that goes to the Making Strides Against Breast Cancer. Uh October 25th, we have the Fall Fest over at the Mount Carnival Grounds with Dan Hosati and and his team from 1 to 5. And after that on October 25th, something else that is quite dear to me, I like Halloween time is u we have the trunk or treat and costume contest that starts at 6 PM over at the railard at the train station. So hopefully um you have some little ones or you just want to get out, park over at Watkins Park, enjoy the some of the scenes coming through the trail and then come over to the costume contest, sport some of those little ones, and not only that, take a peek at some of the trunk or treat uh contestants. That'll be my report. And if anyone has any questions,

questions. All right. Thank you very much, Chief. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. Next up, we have our mayor, council, and staff reports. We'll go on to our mayor's report with Mayor Husher.

All right. Um start my report with the um kind of cover the historical society and and mount area in general. Uh Mount Scary that is coming up uh later in the month. Uh history 101 is occurring for 2025. Uh tonight they're meeting over at Fi Pine Grove Chapel and uh and learning some stuff over there. So if you get bored with this meeting, you can go over to Pine Grove. Uh but tomorrow night, October 7th, 700 p.m. large room lower level of the Mount Airy Firehouse. Uh Matthew Borders, a park ranger from Manakasi National Battlefield uh will be speaking. Uh the topic will be held the bridge to the last the Baltimore and Ohio railroad and the battle of the monocasy. Uh Wednesday October 8th at the public library in the large meeting room. Uh James Rada will be speaking. He's a local author and he'll be speaking on the Daughters of Charity, their work as Civil War nurses and the focus on Frederick County. And then Thursday, October 9th, the last day of it, 6:30m, uh, again at the public library large meeting room, Betsy Estto, a retired Hood College professor and member of the board of directors of the National Museum of Civil War Medicine in Frederick. Her topic will be the legacy of Civil War medicine and how it affects life today. Uh other things that are going on, um October is the month for mayhem, mystery, arson, and murder. If you don't believe me, just sign up for the historical society's ghost tours offered several nights this month. Tours will be led by local historian Larry Valet. Tickets are available through Eventbrite or by visiting the historical society at

Mount Ary's web page. The Hall of Fame is coming up. If you know somebody who's worthy of being nominated for the Hall of Fame, please go on to the historical society's website and nominate them. And then um I'll close out with October 24th through the 31st, that's when Mount Airy gets transformed into Mount Scary. October 18th is a movie night for adults um with a showing of American Graffiti. I know that's a little bit before, but it's a a good movie. That's at dusk in the municipal lot on Veterans Way. October 24th is the family movie night with a showing of Halloween Town. That's at 700 p.m. in Watkins Park. October 25th, as the chief said, costume contest, trunk or treat, spooky trail. That's at 6 pm in Watkins Park. Uh right near Rails to Trails. October 26, Haunted Caboose, 5 to 8:00 PM, 30 foot of terror if you dare to go into the caboose and make it all the way through. They have a suggested donation on that one at $2, but no one's going to get turned away. They also have baked uh goods at the end of the trail, provided you survive getting through there. Okay. October 27th is the online scavenger hunt. October 28th is Pets on parade costume contest. 1 p.m. that's at Wildwood Park. October 29th is spooky trivia and games. And October 30th, home and business Halloween decorating contest voting ends. And see the town's Facebook page for more information on that. October 31st is a Carol County Public Library uh Mount Air Branch Halloween story time with the first lady, my wife, at the caboose 10:00 a.m. on 2 North Main Street. Okay. Uh, Making

Strides is a great event. Uh, the police have promoted it and I'm going to promote it again October 19th. Uh, the walk actually starts at 9:00 a.m., but the chief's going to be there at 7:00 a.m. So, you can come early and uh and and talk to him. And that concludes my report.

All right. Thank you, Mayor. Next up, we have the Board of Recreation Parks and the Sustainability Commission with myself. Due to a scheduling conflict, I was not able to make the parks and wreck meeting. So, next month I'll have a uh longer winded update to cover the previous two months. So, we'll move on to the planning commission with Council Member Kelly. Thank you, Council President. Uh planning commission met on September 29th. The Mount Ary uh portion of the Carol County water resource element draft was approved and now goes to the state for a 60-day review. Uh there were three signage approvals that night. Uh, an extensive presentation from the applicants requesting annexation of the Warfield property was also given. The applicants provided an initial sketch of their vision for the property as well as answers to the questions posed to them by the planning commission in their assessment deliberations. Lastly, the town engineer presented three options that could be used to satisfy the conditional final approval that was given for the green tree development. The commission provided their feedback and the final decision now rests with the town staff who who work with the developer to provide the quantity of parking spaces that were indicated in the pattern book. The planning commission will meet next on October the 27th. That's all I have. All right. Thank you. Next up, we have our streets and roads commission, the commission on aging and livability, and the flat iron task force with council member Mund.

All right. Thank you, council president. The uh commission on aging and livability met Wednesday, September 24th at 5:00 pm here at town hall. Um basically an update was given on on the attempts to on finding a location for the botchi ball court. Uh potential locations include the senior center senior center with ongoing discussions with the uh center. Uh couple spots around town were talked about. One was at Wildwood Park. I just need to clarify with town staff exactly what we own over there to see if there's enough room and location and uh potential land at Prospect Park potentially if it's when it's re redesigned or checked by the back basketball court to see if there's a potential for enough land back there. Uh the Mount Are Senior Center has a new manager and progress is being made um by coal members for being added on respective counties, commissions, and groups related to aging. Um it's a good thing to say as uh to pick to follow up on um the media centers director's thing that the cold social media presence is expanding and viewership is up 123%. Which is good news. The cross the cross county transportation is being re uh reviewed by Carol and Frederick counties and the holidays are just around the corner. So please come out and support the senior the seniors by purchasing gifts at the senior center holiday craft and vendor fair which is scheduled for Saturday, November 8th from 10 to 2 at the senior center. The next coal meeting is Wednesday 10:22 here at town hall at 5:00 pm. for streets and roads met on Tuesday, September 30th, 7 PM in town hall. Updates and summaries were given by Sergeant Brooks on speed studies and

other traffic related issues. Uh the town gave updates on several things that were addressed from a uh complaintant related to Park Avenue and Maryale, the intersection there. people like to come up Park Avenue, run the red light, run the stop signs, and endanger the kids, the young kids that are playing there. So, uh, we did what we could. Uh, we upgraded the stop signs, cut the tree limbs back a little bit more so people coming up can actually see the stop sign from farther away. Also, there are plans to repaint the crosswalks there, but at the moment, nothing is un it's unfortunate that nothing is scheduled at this time due to other work currently being done and the um I want to say the days and the weather getting colder and shorter, but it will be done if time and weather per permits. Uh the traffic circle is progressing and moving along, so please be patient during the construction. It is still expected to be finished in the March and April timeline of 2026. Uh discussions on installing a crosswalk on Park Avenue from the municipal lot um by the vehicles charging stations and steps were discussed. Uh there's I'll update the commission and the EDC people a little bit more on that. That was a request from business owners uh related to the uh EDC roundt that was held in September. The next meeting is November 25th at 7 p.m. in town hall. A quick update on flat iron task force. I will defer to the mayor's report on the amount of funding that is has been awarded and we're currently waiting on the task force meets on an as needed basis. So there's no update for the next meeting at this time. Thank you, Council President.

All right. Thank you. Next up, we have the EDC and Recycling and Sanitation Commission with Council Secretary Evans.

Thank you, Council President. Uh I'll start with recycling and sanitation. Um this weekend, October 11th, uh between 9 and 1 at the American Legion, we're holding a huge e-waste event. Um bring all of your old electronics, old batteries, anything that you want to get rid of, now is the time to do it. Um, we'll be there from 9:00 to 1. The pickup, the trucks will pick up all the stuff between 1 and two and then we'll be gone for that. Yard waist pickups for the rest of the year. October 18th, um, November 15th and de December 13th for the yardways pickups. And October 25th, 2025 is the fall national um, drug takeback day. Uh, Chief, I'm not sure if we actually got those signs over to you or if we still need to do that.

No, you did. Somebody dropped them off today.

Perfect. Thank you. And then October 15th is our next meeting for sanitation and recycling for the EDC. We had a pretty light meeting. Um we have moved meetings to every fourth Wednesday of every month now instead of every odd um numbered month. Um, this past month we just reviewed the business roundt and Ashley gave us a breakdown on all of the action items that are being the lowhanging fruit that are being taken care of by the town staff. So, thank you for the town staff for taking care of a lot of that stuff um to keep the business owners uh a little more happy. Um, that's all I have for my reports this month and our next meeting for EDC is October 22nd.

Thank you. Next up is the Water and Sewer Commission. the beautifification commission and the inclement weather task force with council member demoter.

Okay. Thank you. Uh beautifification commission. Uh we last met on September 16th. Weeding and garden maintenance continues around the town and along rails to trails as our plans um to continue to add two memorial benches, one to go in the skate park and another one to go at the caboose. Uh the next meeting of the commission is scheduled for October 21st. Water and sewer commission met on October 1st. Topics discussed included a quick reference to the water and sewer rate increases that are up for vote this evening and related to this discussion the emphasis on the need for a credible capital improvement and operating plan for water and sewer. Commission also discussed a variety of topics for consideration and inclusion in a letter to be sent by the mayor to all town residents regarding the status of issues and actions associated with PAS and our drinking water supply. A memo from the commission chair to the mayor was prepared and sent to the mayor on September 12th summarizing the commission's recommendations. We continue to discuss the need for obtaining PAS measurements at the tap of residences in particular those nearest to the water stations or wells having the greatest contamination levels. for example, well number seven um as part of water station number three in the Twin Ridge community as these residents are more likely to be getting fed water directly from that well and water station rather than more blended concentrations. uh we believe there's a need for a plan or strategy for residential water sampling or some alternative approach to better gauge actual PAS exposure at the residences.

If you recall, I think it was it was back in 2023 when we first discovered the PAS issue, uh the town indicated that it was going to try to actively manage the wells in terms of turning some wells on and some wells off to try and limit uh PAS concentrations at some of the wells. and the commission determined that the town currently is no longer routinely adjusting well activity as a PAS mitigation tool. This was done from January through April of 2023 and then it was it was discontinued I think because of some of the challenges. Uh we continue to discuss discrepancies between assigned water allocation rates and actual inractice water usage among businesses and in residential settings and we will continue to review the available data and try to reach some conclusions and recommendations for process improvements. The key issue here is what are the checks and balances and what are the internal controls and what are the remedies for addressing large differences and actual water usage. The commission's next meeting is scheduled for November 5th. Inclement weather task force uh we met on September 25th. Uh we're continuing discussion of the priority focus on ways to alert residences on impending significant weather events. A key immediate focus is to research and provide a recommendation on the feasibility and the need for an air siren alert system and its operation. Uh the task force finalized plans for the upcoming hazard preparation seminar which will be provided by the American Red Cross. This seminar will be held here at town hall

this Wednesday, October 8th from 7 to 900 pm. It's also going to be livereamed on Facebook. All residents and businesses are encouraged to attend and learn how you can become better prepared for hazardous weather. Uh the task force is also doing some what I would call benchmarking of other municipalities targeting three to four other towns who utilize warning sirens for hazardous weather and other notifications. So the goal here is to do some benchmarking, learn from the lessons learned from other municipalities who have implemented these kinds of systems in terms of the equipment they have, operational systems, the effectiveness, uh the responsiveness of the citizens, and just how well it's it's it's it's being a positive tool. And so we're we're looking at Elicate City, College Park, Maryland, Talbot County, Emittsburg, and Calvert County. So we're going to collect that information, bring it back, and we'll factor that into our research and ultimate recommendation back to the council. Um, on that note, I want to give the council a heads up and the council president a heads up. Um the task force is working towards having a recommendation for presentation to the council in the January 2026 time frame. So you can lightly pencil that in and hopefully if if we keep uh working hard the way the task force is, we'll be ready to to present some options and recommendations. Um I did want to also note I want to thank the mayor. Um, the town has posted a web page for the task force on the town's website. I just

wanted to ask the mayor. Um, I did look at it. There's a lot of good information there, but it's missing it's missing the key priority that we're focusing on, which is trying to research and provide a recommendation on an air siren notification system. So, I think it's important if you could to to really identify that so people know exactly what our key focus is. It's that and then providing communication within the community about um tools and resources to help you be better prepared. Our next meeting is scheduled for October 15th. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Next up, we would normally have our town attorney report for Mr. Tom McCarron, but he is out of town right now, so he is not present this evening. Uh, we have copies of our town administrator report, our code enforcement report, and the zoning administrator report. Anyone have anything to add? All right, so we'll move on to new business. First up, we have a road closure for approval. Keeping it safe in the fields of Nodingham for Halloween from 601 Longbo Road to 811 Longbo Road on Friday, October 31st, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Do we have a motion? I'll make the motion for approval. Do we have a second? I'll second. All right. Any discussion?

Uh, I have a correction and a couple questions. Um, so the the intersection is incorrect on the first page here. I guess if you go back into the right, it's not it's not the intersection of Watersville and Route 27, which at first gave me pause. Uh, but it's uh back on Longbo Road, the back of Ningham, just for correction there. Right. So, um, but I guess the questions I had were, um, if this is passed, will the town be supporting with signage prior, police support, barrier support? I see soft barriers on here. So, I'm just concerned that, you know, are people going to know about it prior and how safe is it going to be? I realize it's not a high volume road back there, but I'm not sure what a soft barrier is compared to the I don't know what I would consider consider hard barriers on on Main Street. So, do we have any color that Chief, are you dialed into this at all or actually I'm unaware of it other than what we're speaking about right now for the road closure? um on the date uh on the 31st there. I mean, we could see who we have working, see if we can structure something like that and if the town has some soft barriers that we may be able to put up some cones and some maybe uh bike uh structures along that way. Maybe we'll make it work. We'll make it work for what the town needs. To be clear, I wasn't requesting official, but I'm just What does this what does this put in motion is I guess is what I'm asking. But

traditionally, it it's uh like Sterling Glenn does a event every year. Yeah. Like a block party. When it's within a community, we we tend to just monitor it. Got it. And uh and and we're aware of it. And um but in terms of providing staffing or anything like that, we we do not. So, and putting signage up as a heads up week beforehand like we typically do with events, that's not that's what that's for the community to Yeah. figure out. Okay.

Yeah. This is like an annual event, haunted haunted house thing over over that way. So, it's pretty well well known by the people. So, they should be aware to stay clear of those roads. Is that what you're gonna say? I spoke with um Miss Lurch and you can see all the neighbors that signed to It sounds like it's something they've been doing for quite a while. Um it may or may not always come in for the road closure, but yeah, it's a neighborhood event and it's it really for them it's about the safety. Apparently, they get inundated in Noningham with trick-or-treaters and it's about keeping the kids safe, but it's like a neighborhood thing. Yeah.

Okay. Question support. Yeah. All right. Any further discussion? No, but I will make the correction on the first page before I sign it. I had big questions there. Water zone 27's a pretty extensive intersection. expanding the celebration for Halloween this year. It's not I70. All right. All in favor of approving the road closure for keeping it safe in the fields of Noddingham from 601 Longbo Road to 811 Longbo Road on Friday, October 31st, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Please signify by saying I. I opposed.

All right. Thank you. Next up, we have a recommendation of award for the roof replacement on the wastewater treatment plant plant buildings seven and two. This is two buildings. It's a revised contractor, which is uh I think it's under Jared, but do we have a motion to approve? I'll make the motion for approval. All right, I'll take a second just to get us in discussion. Jared, do you have anything you want to just run by?

Just just that uh it's the same proposal that was brought before the council last month. Uh the biggest difference is that the we uh there were three uh quotes given in that proposal simply to show that they chose the general contractor chose the lowest uh quote that they had received and we um had um approved that subcontractor instead of the contractor themselves which is Garland. So that's really the only change. Everything else is the same. Okay. Right. So, we're just revising the contractor. Yeah.

All right. Do we have any further discussion? I'm good. A quick question. Um, I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask. So, and you know, we always whenever we get these, we hear, well, you know, we this this is this is the lowest bidder. This is this is the, you know, the lowest offer. And my question is going along with that, is it high quality in terms of references that you've done? I mean, it's great to have low cost, but is this a high quality operation with with good reliable references?

So, uh, this this proposal was done a little differently than we would normally do to where we go out and publicly bid uh, and get quotes. This was done through a um a collective, a public collective, which is uh through Omnia, which is a national uh group that holds uh uh pre-awwarded contracts for public for public contracts. So, we piggybacked off of that uh which we are allowed to do uh um um with the town. So, they do all that uh pre- bidding um background check of all of all of their contractors that they use. So that was done uh internally uh when uh they were awarded that pre-contract and then we piggybacked off of that.

All right. So for the recommendation of award for the roof replacement on the wastewater treatment plant building 7 and two looks like the revised contractor is going to be awarded to Garland/DBS Inc. Correct. In the amount of $71,991. All right. All in favor of approving the recommendation of award to Garland DBS Incorporated in the amount of $71,991, please signify by saying I. I opposed. All right. Thank you. Oh, we have an addendum for a public works agreement with Antum Antidum Broadband for approval. I'll make a motion to approve. Do we have a second?

Second. Um, looks I know usually we go to Tom or Jared. It looks pretty simple in our packet. Um, different initial terms and renewal provisions for the line of credit than what was originally in the PWA. Y and then the town will retain the ability to require replacement of the line of credit if the bank non-renews before the end of the warranty period. That's correct. Those are the only two changes in the PWA. The only changes were letter of credit were um changes were the only changes to the PWA. All right. other than um you'll you'll see in Tom's red line, we you have the red line copy there to approve. Um there was a couple of small changes of some names and things like that, but no no significant changes to the language.

Okay. Any questions, concerns? Uh yes, Council President, quick question and maybe it's in here. Um so with this, it looks like things are going to start rolling once this gets approved. Do you know you you have any understanding of when the start date is on this? I have not been given a start date yet, but it does sound you are correct and that it sounds like they have a a pretty um a fire lit under them to get started because it's been a little while since this original PWA was approved and so they're pretty much ready to go once all this paperwork is and they can work through the wintertime and freezing conditions, that kind of thing. Uh as far I think some of the work can be done in the winter time and Barney may correct me if I'm wrong. He's he's

No, he a lot of that can be done in the winter. Correct Barney? I think there was a provision. There are certain months that they cannot work. Yeah. If they have to dig in under in the ground, they're they're not going to dig into the frozen ground, obviously. But other than that, there's three or four months that they cannot work. Okay. I'm remembering. Thanks, Marty. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Yeah. I think that was one of the biggest conc was tearing up people's yards and then leaving in a mud pit, you know, through the winter. So, and that's in there.

Yeah. And I just want to say to Councilman Motor, it appears that they may have already started in certain locations through town, but more above above ground and and on poles. I see them along main street and doing some pole pole work. So how that affects everything, I'm not sure, but they have started I think. And I'm going to say the last thing just to clarify I know that we have them in short increments of areas where they're going to work. they have to start, finish, and then move on to another subsequent area where they're not going to be tearing up multiple areas and stuff like that. So,

yeah, they have four phases. Uh, three of them are on the Carol County side. It's phase three, I think, is the Frederick all the Frederick County side. So, I think they're starting at the north end. uh phase one down to I don't know Watersville Road or thereabouts and then continue down phase two go to Frederick County phase three and then finish out the southern part of Carol County phase four. Okay. All right. Any further discussion? All right. Hearing none. All in favor of approving the addendum to the public works agreement with Antum Broadband, please signify by saying I.

I thank you. Then we have one more addendum for a public works agreement for Dennis Kitchen Property. Uh we're substituting a developer. This is for approval. Um do we have a motion to approve? Make the motion for approval. All right. Do we have a second? I'll second. All right. Any discussion?

No. I just want to say this appears to be just being done because the uh property has been sold is for the 1010 South Main Street. The property has changed owners. So, it's just more of an update to the public works agreement to basically say who the corrective the proper owner is and who is taking over the public works agreement. That's that's correct. The um the first part of this is exhibit A. The last two sheets is the assignment and assump assumption which basically just assigns it to the new owner. Uh that's what you're approving. Is that the the assignment and assumption and that's the CBI homes? Correct. Correct. [Applause]

All right. Any further discussion? All right. Hearing none. All in favor for the addendum for the public works agreement for Dennis kitchen property with the substituting of the developer. Please signify by saying I I opposed. All right. Thank you. Next up we have our commission appointments and reappointments relinquish to Mayor Husher. Just uh one this month I'd like to appoint Gary Fry to the streets and roads commission. Do I have a motion? Yes sir. Sir, I would like to make the motion for appointment of Gary Fry to the Streets and Roads Commission. I'll second that. Cool. Any discussion?

All right. Hearing none. All in favor of approv or appointing Gary Fry to the Streets and Roads Commission, please signify by saying I. I. Opposed. All right. Welcome aboard, Gary. All right. Next up, we're on to ordinances and resolutions. We have one. This is ordinance 2025-9. This is the water and sewer rate increase for adoption. Uh I will say that during this ordinance I am going to open it up to uh the public if they have anything that they would like to say and also to uh the head of the water and sewer commission as well. Um so before we do that though, we will need a motion in a second to get into the discussion portion. Do we have a motion?

Yes, sir. Council President would like to make a motion for approval of ordinance 2025-9. All right. Do we have a second? I'll second. In the discussion portion, uh, if the council doesn't mind, I'd like to invite the head of the water and sewer commission up. He has just a brief statement he would like to make. Yes. You're well aware of the financial situation. I want to interrupt. I'm so sorry. Can you just state your name and address?

Oh, Dick Swanson. I'm the chair of the water sewer commission, 1107 South Main Street. Uh I just want to emphasize the fact that given the financial situation which we're all aware of that this is necessary unfortunately but necessary. Um and I'd also to what speaking to what the woman in the back was talking about cost savings and uh the fact of rate increases the amount and all of that and are we in control of our expenses. Um, one of the key elements of this is passing this ordinance and then creating a group of people who could put together the framework of how you would do a multi-year budget both for the capital side and the operating side to ensure the integrity of the expenses to make sure that we don't get ourselves in a financial position like this in the future. So, uh, I think that is going to go well forward to, uh, alleviate concerns that the citizens may have. I will point out that the water department and the sewer departments are running on a pretty lean budget and from uh, my experience in dealing with them that there's not a lot of fat there. That's not going to get us back to where we need to be. And I'd also point out in terms of inflation rate, um, we should peg the rate increases to that. Well, the problem with that is that for years, uh, it's been noted that the rate of cost to operate a water department and a sewer department, a municipality outpace inflation. In other words, you that's why you're seeing across the nation u water rates

going up at a higher rate than the inflation rate because the costs are outpacing the inflation and that's just been the history of it. So I I just like to emphasize so this is actually what we're asking is a two-phase project. Let's get some financial stability as these water rates go into effect. Let's work on creating the outline of how we would do what we expect from a multi-year operating and capital budget and then let's get that program going so we can make sure that we head off any uh future unexpected cost increase that you know where we start drifting into having deficits again. Thank you,

Council President. May I ask take a question here? It's about the ordinance. It's nothing anything. If I heard one of the speakers correctly to tonight, they were under the impression that after say fiscal year 2028, the rates would continue increasing 8% on an annual basis. But if I'm understanding the ordinance properly, it says, you know, the last rate change is in 2028 and then nothing else can happen unless there is another ordinance to alter the rates again. Correct.

That that's correct. This is this is a three-year program. And I'd also point out that if in the council's opinion it became obvious that we were doing well financially on the operating capital side of the house prior to the 2028 the end of fiscal 2028 that the council at any time can pass an ordinance and adjust those rates. So you're not absolutely 100% locked in. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that because that's what I thought. But I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting you are correct the ordinance correctly. Thank you

discussion.

Uh I I'm sorry Dick. I uh just to uh confirm and I think you said this the last meeting and a speaker also said it. Can you confirm the last time we had an increase was 2012. We had a small increase in 2023, but the last time we had any major increase was part of a multi-year uh phase in to get us out of the same type of predicament we're in now back in the, you know, 200 8 n and so on. And so that was actually a five-year program of which I believe in about the third year of that we got pretty financially healthy. And then the council elected to uh not increase those rates for the last two years. And I say that's the same opportunity you have now. But yes, and so we went from 2012 to uh 2023 with no rate increase.

That's that's rare. And uh of course you could only do that so long and then you're going to begin to uh have that cost outpace your revenues. Do you remember what the 2023 increase was? Uh, not off the top of my head. It was modest. It was very based on a per usage. Well, yes, it was, but fluctuation the the size of the increase was very small. The reason for that was this is all during the change in the meters

and the data and things like that we had were not we didn't feel comfortable enough to come in and say this is what we need to do to address the financial situation. uh because the our data on revenues was skewed frankly and uh so we but we need to do something. So we decided to do a very moderate rate increase to cover just increases in operating costs without consideration of the capital side of the house. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much, Dick. Any discussion? Uh, yes, I have some some comments.

Sure.

Okay. So, um I I I've looked at the ordinance and I appreciate the need to address um our deficit in and water and sewer resources. Um, but I always look at the ordinance and there's always a sentence in the in every ordinance and this one has it as well. And this says, "The commission has determined the proposed adjustments to water and sewer rates to be in the best interest of the town." And so it may be in the best interest of town government. I'm not sure it's totally in the best interest of the citizens. And let me expand on that. I guess for for me as a policy setter um I I I would approach this policy setting initiative differently. I I don't like the idea of taking an existing rate structure that perhaps hasn't really been um thoroughly evaluated in quite a while and simply wrapping around it an 8% across the board increase and then compounding that for three years. So you end up with essentially a 26% increase. So I I I don't like that approach. I don't like the fact that we're not actually examining the rate structure itself. And again, when I look at this as a council member, I also live in this town. If I approve this, I'm basically saying I agree with the rate hike I'm about to impose on myself and I agree with the rate structure and I'm comfortable having all the neighbors on my street get this rate structure as well as all my constituents. And I look at the rate structure and and

I believe the way you do this is you first look at the rate structure and really go through that and re-evaluate it because this rate structure is supposed to be a progressive schedule. So a progressive rate schedule is supposed to help ensure that those using more of the resources are truly paying more to support those resources. They're putting more of a burden on the water and sewer systems and etc. The other purpose to me of a progressive rate structure is to incentivize and encourage conservation and stewardship and recycling and such. And when I look at the rate structure, there are sections of this to me that that are just nonsensical. And we don't have a lot of time and I know I don't have a lot of time, but I've done a lot of research on this. And just for example, on the on the sewer side, those rates are pretty flat. And I believe early on that was there was thinking to do that purposely. But if you look at the extra 20,000 on top of 20,000 on top of 20,000 to the next 80,000 increments of water usage, there's only like a 0.25 cent increase per thousand gallons across all of those categories. that to me is not incentivizing people to conserve water usage. So in summary, um I would just approach this differently. I think there's a need to do it. I don't like the approach that's taken. I applaud the commission. They've worked hard on this. Um I'm a solutionsoriented person. If somebody wants to make an amended uh motion that

says we're going to work on this some more for a couple months because this isn't intended to go into effect until January. I'd be happy to help with that. The last thing that that was a closer for me. In J in July, uh Mr. Swanson gave a presentation which I encouraged him to do so to kind of set the table on the need. And I made a statement at that July meeting and I said, you know, if I don't see in the ordinance a commitment to develop this detailed long-term capital improvement and operating plan, I'm going to have a hard time supporting the ordinance and it's not in the ordinance. And then just factually speaking at the July meeting, Mayor Hushower, you said you said, "I need to put a star next to creating a workg groupoup um to create this operating plan, this capital improvement plan." So that was July and now it's October. So, so it's three months passed and we still don't have that action. So for all of those reasons, I think there is a need here, but I I cannot support this approach. Thank you.

Any other comments?

Oh, yes, sir. Thank you, Council President. Um, I'll keep it brief here, uh, as much as I can, sir. I did once when this ordinance came up in July, we decided to set it aside for a couple months. another couple months here and I want to say the cost of operation hasn't gone down. It will only be increasing as time progresses. So, we do need to adjust the rates. And I did the calculations. I finally figured out how to deconstruct the water bill to get down to the true cost that it will be for my family and I. And this is based on our last water bill of 10,000 gallons. And once I deconstructed everything, um I want to say by the time it is fiscal year 2028, my based on 10,000 gallons, it will only go up approximately $8.40 difference for a 3month period for a quarter period. So divide that by a day, it's 2 cents or less per day to cover the increase on this. And I'll be happy to explain how I deconstructed it if anyone wants to send me an email. But it's basically the rate is being increased on the rate we charge for this service. That is all that is based in here per 1,000 gallons. The different rate structures. No flat fees are being changed. No service fees. No system benefit charges are being changed. Even one fee for on the water bill is $15. That's a state pass through which which is the aka the flush tax. So you have to complain to the state reps on that one. But overall

at the end of 2028 it's not going to be that in my eyes is not going to be that large of an increase to ability to just bring us whole per se for operating costs. these these bills or the money from it does not go to um I want to say replenish the reserve accounts that we have the system benefit charges I'm being told goes to pay for the capital side of it which is the pumps the pipes the equipment at the wastewater treatment plants and pipes of and pumps that go bad over time the fees go towards the operation which is basically the treatment of the water and sewage basically those costs will go up as we mentioned here the P5s yes we did get some money for that we are in the process of doing that those costs will go up on that so right now we're just trying to bring it up even keel to be able to afford to keep going with not draw down on the reserves that are not being replenished and I know I've said this before people will disagree with me but the reserves are replenished via impact fees of development you have no development you have no impact fees you do not replenish the reserves. We've been living off the reserves. The reserves are the cushion for the large projects. So, we draw down the reserves. We can't afford the large pipe replacements, pump replacements, or up upgrades later at a lower cost via funding, bonds, or anything else. We use the reserves to offset cost of large projects. So unfortunately as it says hasn't been updated since 2012. Cost is above the cost of inflation. So unfortunately we have to do it and I'm you know I'm going to be paying more too as as every coun

council member and elected official will be too. So that's it council president. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions?

Um I have a couple discussion points. Um the picture that Chairman Swanson has painted is we can't wait any longer. I mean costs have been going up. I think we we would have all rather uh I think we we would have all um like to have done this earlier with smaller increases, but that's not you know those aren't the cards we're holding right now. Um, the comment about not incentivizing higher water usage, I don't I'm I'm looking at these escalation tiers. The first tier jumps 80%. So, I don't I'm not sure, Councilman Deon. I'm not sure how this doesn't, you know, deincentivize larger amounts of water usage. So, I'm not I'm just not seeing that here. each tier escalates significantly. Um I to echo what Councilman Mund said, nobody wants to do this. We're all going to be paying higher. We're all we're paying more for everything and we don't want to do this, but we also can't be insolvent and um our town's u possibly most important utility. Um those are my comments. Any other council members wish to speak? All right, I'll go ahead and go. U just give my thoughts. I was on the water and sewer commission when we did the first increase. And that was the first time anything's been increased in this town since 2012. Uh I was then on this panel when we raised taxes. That was the first time taxes were raised since 2008.

Long time. Yeah.

2008. So within our first year of being a council, we increased and dug into citizens pockets twice. No other council before us has done that for whatever reason. I don't know. And honestly, I don't care. I know that we did. So my question is, why did we do it in 2023 if it didn't do anything? What did we solve? I took a bunch of arrows for doing it and being one of the first ones to do it. Okay. And it got us apparently nowhere. We replaced all the water meters. Okay. I mean, it's a great system that we have now. they needed replaced. But, you know, we we did put a lot of money into the to the water and sewer sector over these last couple years and and we dug into citizens pockets to do it. Now, we're being asked, let's do a 24% increase. You can talk about the step and stuff like that. At the end of the day, it's 24%. And I don't know where you get $8 from. 24% is 24%. Okay? It's that simple. But you're asking us to raise it 24% over 3 years. and then we'll figure out where it's going to go and then we'll figure out what our 10-year outcome is and then we'll figure out this and that. How about we figure it out first? What if 24%'s not enough? What if 24%'s too much? The fact of the matter is nobody sitting in this room knows if it is or if it is not. So, we're going to blindly dig in someone's pocket, pull out 24% over the course of the next three years, and they're going to ask, "Where is it going and why?" I'm gonna look at them and say, "I don't know. I don't think any of us up here have that answer." I don't think anybody in that audience has the answer, to be very

blunt. So, for the second time, we're going to raise rates, and we have no 10-year plan. We have no idea what big capital projects are coming up in the future. And if we do, I haven't been told. And I would think that we should all know that if we're getting ready to vote on this. So my certain questions that I have are where's the money going? What is it being used for? What is on the horizon as far as needs with our wastewater treatment plant? What will the next rate increase be for? And how much do you think that could be with the way that things have going? We have a rate of inflation. What's the rate of waste water treatment plant inflation? What is that? Does anyone know? We're saying it's more. Okay. Well, how much more? We need a forecast. We need to see, look, this is what is to be expected. So therefore, we're not just coming up in July and saying, hey, we just raised you a year ago. we're going to hit you again. And then three years from now, inflation is what it is. We got to hit you again. The next thing I will say is we need to get into this budget cycle and we need to look internally first. I firmly believe that. I think we need to look internally. I think we need to see the difference between wants and needs. We have a new council member on board now. Uh, we have a new um, uh, town administrator. We have new eyes. I think we need to get creative and I think we need to do every single thing we can to say this is a want, this is a need, and then we got to figure it out. But I think just going and blindly saying, "We don't know what our 10-year plan is, but we're going to up you 24%."

if we want to talk about I mean I I I do believe the words um I can't remember what the words were but basically inept budgeting were used to me that is a core inept version of budgeting to take money out of somebody's pocket and not know why or how much and if it's even going to make an impact long-term short term no idea. So, you know, I does it need to be done? Yes. And I think at the end of the day, it probably will be done, but it needs to be done for for based on fact, not based on opinion. It needs to be done based on a scale of what you're looking at down the road for future councils, for future engineers, for future mayors, for future town administrators. We need to know what this is. We need to know why. And nobody looked at it before because we were sitting on a ton of reserves. Well, well, now we're not. And honestly, it should have been done when we did it the last time. I'm not willing to do it again. I'm not willing to throw darts at a wall when it comes to people's income. So, we as a town, and I'm putting myself in this. I'm not throwing anybody under a bus. We need to sit down with whoever we need to sit down with and I'm happy to volunteer my time to do it to figure out a 10-year plan to figure out and get it in writing and say, "These are the capital projects that we have coming up. This is what it's going to cost. This is how much it's going to cost. We can pull from here from the town side of the budget. We're going to need X from the citizens." But until we have that, we're throwing darts at a wall. And I don't feel comfortable doing that with people's income. If I may.

Yes, sir.

I agree 100% about, you know, your what you call 10-year plan and all of that. Absolutely, it needs to be done. But as far as the facts go, where is this money going to go? This money is going to go to the fact that we have a budget this year that is a $500,000 deficit in it. And that kind of budgeting has gone on for the last couple of years. And if that continues, this rate increase does nothing more than says rather than running deficit budgets, this will bring us to a break even point and possibly depending on how inflation goes, a slight margin over that where you take in in the last year more money than you spend. But I can be fairly confident to say most of that probably be eaten up by inflation. you know where the money's going. You passed the budget with a $500,000 deficit in it. So, I don't think that's that's the issue. I think the issue is get us back to financial stab stability. And as a couple people have mentioned here, what we need to do is look to the future with a written concrete plan of capital and operating over the course of multiple years. that tells us as best we know at the time the plate is made and updated where we're going and what we need. I I can tell you that uh the water department people went out pulled a pump out of the ground up there near the elementary school. You know what the date of that date of that pump water pump was? 1920s. we that we're talking about water system that is going to need new piping and you

know piping is expensive. We've got to start now and I the water and sewer commission is recommending a two-phase program and we'd like to see it implemented. And real quick, I mean obviously no you you put more time into this town than anybody so this isn't personal. It's no disrespect intended. Um, but I sat in this same chair in 2023 and I heard the exact same thing. This is to get us back to even. I heard the exact same thing in 2023. And that was my argument to my council members who were very nervous and I think even the mayor was a little nervous about increasing rates for the first time. And I said, "Guys, we got to get back to even. We've got to get there. This will get us there." the the changing in the water meters and then we up this and and we're doing a sliding scale where people that use more are going to pay more, right? And and I sold it to the citizens that way. Um it's been about a year and 10 months and we're in the back to it.

Well, I have nothing to sell. Okay.

I have nothing to sell because I don't have confidence that this will get us back to even. There's nothing sitting here showing me that it will. There's nothing sitting here showing any of us that it will. Nothing. So, what are we doing? In my opinion, somebody comes to your door and asks you for money and says, "Hey, this will get you back to square one." You going to blanketly hand it to them or do you want to see something? You want to see something in writing? Do you want a contract? Do you want to see at least a best guesstimate of where we're going to be in 8 to 10 years? It's all I'm asking for. And if we weren't sitting here a year and 11 months ago, I probably wouldn't be saying this, but I've heard it before. This will get us back to even, and we're not. So, you know, with all due respect, we did pass a $500,000 deficit in our budget. But this won't even get us there if it's only $8 a person. So, what are we talking about? What do we need? What do we need? You're throwing darts at a wall and hoping it sticks. And I don't feel comfortable doing that financially. Go ahead. Thanks for your comments. I've uh wanted to sit here and listen to what everybody had to say and and kind of uh work at it from u um from Alaska uh speaking. What this ordinance is meant to do is it's basically triage to get us back u back to where we consider ourselves with the best uh knowledge that we have back to an even state. You can question that, but we do know what the deficit is and we do know what uh what we need to do to get back to

that break even point. Having said that, you know, the first part for me when this first came up, when Dick first came into the office and and we started talking about it and uh and it was mentioned, it was uh it was a matter of uh coming up with an ordinance that would get something to the table that we could start talking about. And and that's where we are. we got an ordinance here and uh you know and it's it's brought it to the uh to the forefront that we definitely have an issue as far as the long-term and capital improvement plan. Uh I think it is needed and I do think that uh you know this this was our first stab at at triaging the deficit that we're in and u you know and then taking it forward from here going into our next budget cycle. uh that would certainly come up as would other issues such as the fire company and things like that. So, you know, this was uh kind of our gateway into uh uh further discussing this. So, uh I'll respect whatever the council's vote is on this and we'll we'll take it from there. So, thanks.

Council president would like to the wonders of AI and phones here. So you were saying we don't know if this will even get us even. Okay. I can say uh the average rate has been 5.35% per year from 52 to 25. Additionally, water bills have risen at nearly twice the rate of inflation in in recent years with an average increase of 7.1% year-over-year reported in March 2024. So the 8% seems to be as Dick indicated seems to be right in line with what the rate of increases have been for the warden and source. So this will at least as Lisa will as Dick said will hopefully get some money back into it get us on level footing solid ground to do it. And I'll agree with you we do need long range plans and things of that nature. But is when contracts are done for warden and shore. I'm not saying it's incorrect to presume what the cost is but then you have to start figuring grants federal state level grants. So the true cost is not then we can best guess of the town pays for it all like the main line down the um main street that was replaced was close to a million dollars. Luckily we were able to get a DHC grant or bond bill that paid for most of it. So, but we have to pay the bond back, but if not, we would have to take if we weren't able to get the bond, we would have to basically find the money out of the budget somewhere to pay for it. So, it's kind of hard to judge the exact cost of it for public works projects. I know we would love to and need to and get the best guess estimate, but at least for the next 3 years or 2 and 1/2 years, the

8% seems to be a justified or a solid number for right now if no major projects. I don't believe we have any major projects coming up in the next three years that haven't been completed. Correct. So, it's just basically to get it and I'm willing to consider or entertain something that by 2028 we should have a um you know I want to say a longterm or minimum 5 to 10 year assessment ready to start choosing because the best planning can be I want to say thrown to the wind if something unexpected happens. you know, like we expected one year to do a a water man replacement, but then a major pump goes bad or something else fails. So, that's kind of and then we have to readjust. But, I would rather see to get on level level footing. And at the same time, I don't mind putting in there addressing to see if we can get a long range plan put together in three months. Not three months, in a couple years, within the next year or so.

So, that was my That's my thought. Sorry, mayor. Sorry, Council President. You have any idea how long it will take to put a long range plan together, if you don't mind? I'm just taking this in right now. We have a capital improvement plan. Uh don't want you to think that we don't have one. Yeah.

Um not the council hasn't always asked for it, whatever. Um we we generally look at it as a five-year plan, but we do have longer out outreach as to what we're uh expecting. There is a large large project coming up. We've done two of our water towers, our third water tower is in need of it. We just did a um a uh rove a remote operated vehicle that swims through the water and does an inspection of it. Um that was just done this past year. Um and uh so that that's going to be roughly a million dollar project. Um I think it's estimated like 800,000. Um but um we have done nothing but capital improvements in the past 20 years. and I can give you a summary because I know a lot of you are new to what's been done in the past and and so I'd like to get you updated. I've done that with a previous council before of what our capital plan is and that sort of thing. So, um I I feel like I owe it owe that to you all. Uh so so that um you have what we need moving forward. Um, as far as the rates go, I haven't looked at the rates as much as the Water and Sewer Commission has, so I can't comment on where that is, but I think the the 24% or 26% is going to help us get back to where we need to be for now. We've had a lot of ARPA money. We've had a lot of other um all of our PAS being funded. Um, so there's a lot of good capital projects going on right now. They're already fully funded. Our water meters were fully funded. We had three two two uh water main projects, actually a third with a small one over by the elementary school that was fully funded. Um so we have a lot of things that were fully funded, but still we're we're still falling behind a little bit. So again, getting us caught up would help, but um uh having a grade structure that would add a certain percentage each year and not get to where we need to add 25

40% you know in a couple years. Uh we should be adding 3% every year or something on that. So we should be looking towards that um once we get ourselves back level. But um and let me correct myself B you can sorry to interrupt there is one project that might capital project that might be coming up we just don't know the true cost of it yet and that's the lead line replacement service line replacement that's being man mandated by the federal government and the state I believe we have gotten some money to conduct the study and based on the study it will depend on how much money we get I think to replace it it's just that they want the lead lines replaced in the in the older homes and it's just the supply lines from say the road to the house that could be led,

right? And we're supposed to hear I think this month on whether we get that funding that we applied for in January. Yeah. So you it's it's hard to judge the true cost and then if we don't if we get it wrong we unnecessarily raise the rates to a level that we don't need. That's my two cents. She doesn't feel attack. It just makes it sound like we're not planning for anything, but but the truth is we are we are planning for a lot of things.

And I have no I have no doubt that you are. I mean, matter of fact, I know you are. The problem is is we're the ones with the burden to actually vote it into action and and we just didn't know and we don't know. And we've already done it once with the statement that this will get us back to even and it's less than two years later and all of a sudden we're in a half a million dollar deficit again. And no, I could Yeah. 8% year-over-year to get it back, which I still don't believe 8% year-over-year is going to get us back. Yeah. Steve.

Yeah. Just a couple quick comments. Again, just don't choose the messenger. Um, so I am on the water and sewer commission as the liaison, but I used to go to the meetings before that because because I had an interest. So, I try and do a lot of listening and what I heard through my listening of the water and sewer commission members is I I appreciate Barney your your efforts to have a plan and I know you've done a lot of replacement and refurbishment. What I heard from the members was the level of detail and expectation, my words, soup to nuts in terms of a good solid five-year long-term capital and operating plan. I don't think they were seeing what they wanted to see. That's that's that's my observation. Okay. Um, second point, again, I do think we need to look at the rate structure. I learned a lot in this process. The, you know, your your first 6 to 8,000 gallons um of use, you know, that's that's a lot of your seniors. We we we want to try and keep the rates, you know, low for our the people who who are resource limited and our seniors. And so I think we need a rate structure that's fair that everyone pays their fair share. But let's be mindful of people in need and our seniors. Um about 80% of the water usage is residential. About 20% is commercial and industrial. Uh Council Member Kelly, you are correct. There are some pretty big price point jumps between 20,000 to 20,000 uses for water. My point is, are those price point differences

at the right place? Should they be different? Should some be higher or lower? On the sewer side, like I said, if you look at the sewer side, it's a pretty pretty flat rate. There's not a lot of you can be using a ton of water and you're not paying much more per thousand gallons than somebody who's using not that much. Um, I'm in a newspaper article back when the water rates were raised in what, 2023. Um, because I voted against the increase then and the and the point I made it was to council president Wabos. I said the the increase is helping to chip away, but you're not addressing the full need. So, I'm not going to vote for an increase now. It's doing nothing for the total need. And I'm not even sure how much this is going to address that that small portion of the need. So maybe we ought to think about starting to work on a capital improvement plan. Is this something we could have by February or March so that we have it during the budget cycle that we could actually look at it and factor it into when we do the next budget. Um the water rates, my understanding we that's already in the budget. I mean, I know we're operating in a deficit, but we're in that budget cycle now. So, you know, what's the harm in in waiting trying to do this what I call a more informed way? Really scrub, take a wire brush, as a commissioner again would say, and really see if, you know, get our rate structure the way that we think it should be and then figure out how much we might need to wrap around that if we need to increase rates. So, those are my thoughts. Thank you, Mayor. Yeah. And in working with the staff, and

I know Barney, you got a lot of um a lot of gears turning in the engineering department. I I think what a couple of the council members have expressed is is putting a a a capital improvement plan into memo form. something that can be shown to the council as opposed to something written on your grease board or or something that is uh you know that's in a in a binder on your desk that you're fully aware of but but they may not be. So, uh, so my question for you is how long would it take you to put together the information that you're already working on and put it into a form that could be brought to the council in terms of a of a capital improvement plan.

Sure. I I could provide it next month if Okay. Yeah. All right. So potentially if this got postponed for a month then you could produce a document. Jared, is that fair?

Yes, it it is. And to Barney's point, um we do have those documents that we could um condense down into into something one or two pager to show everyone. I I will say um just just one comment. I mean, we do need to be a little bit careful because although we have capital plans already, those are for your standard replacements that we know we need to make based on our based on our current budget and what and what we're going to be budgeting for over the next 5 years. But because we're in a deficit, the problem is if something outside of those planned replacements were to happen, then you're in a real predicament. Uh we've seen it happen with other towns in Carol right here in Carol County. I don't I have to name them. We all know we all know where they are to where it's not an 8% increase anymore. It's a 25% increase that the council then has to go go through and and and approve. And that's the only thing I don't want to see and I think what the water and sewer commission is really thinking about. Um if something were to happen and we were were to have to do such a large rate increase. Uh going back to to the council president's what he was saying um we haven't had to do it a lot since from 2012 till now. A lot of a lot of which were the funding that came down the pike that we had right for infrastructure. That was one major reason. But I think one of the major one of the main reasons we're in this deficit now is because those small increases were not thought about between those years. I think that had a lot to do with it. Um, and so I just want just cautioning everyone to think about that as as we go along that we don't want to wait another 10 years to think about doing something like this because then we're going to be a much larger increase again.

Yeah.

Well, and that's kind of uh kind of my point. I mean, it it's it's death by a thousand paper cuts or just rip the band-aid off and be done with it, right? And right now, you know, whether it's and it's nobody's fault. We I don't have any information. So to my point, some a citizen comes to me and says, "Why did you raise water rates?" Because we're in a deficit. Why are we in a deficit? What what's being what needs to be done? What's been done? What you know this? We don't have any answers. You know, in in 2023, we had a little bit of answers, right? We I could kind of explain that with the tax increase. I could absolutely explain that. I even had an open forum here where anybody could come and talk about it and I would tell them exactly what we were doing, exactly why we were raising taxes. We're looking at a 24% increase um that we're being told will get us back to even. Well, even doesn't help us if we have something that pops up like you just mentioned, right? So, if it needs to be a higher increase, but we have the reasons for it, I'm I'd rather do that because then I can at least explain to you why we're going into our own pockets and your pockets. I have backup. I have a reason. Right now, we're saying 24% is going to get us back to net zero. Well, net zero doesn't help us if something pops up, you know? So if it needs to be a bigger increase, but I have a reason for the bigger increase. I'm much more comfortable with that than death by a thousand paper cuts for no reason at all.

Council President Okay, because it sounds like what I'm hearing here is that you're you're willing to entertain a rate increase as long as you have a presentation reasons or ability to sell it to the public. Not I mean, I'm putting this in my own Well, I'm going to put it I'm going to put it in my words. Okay. You would feel better. My words are I'm not going to go in your wallet and pull your money out. Yeah. And tell you I'm taking this, but I'm not going to tell you why. Okay. That's what Yeah. That's what that's the best way I can I can I get what you right. Does it need to be done? Absolutely. I think most citizens know it needs to be done. But in order to do it, in order to to be responsible for other people's earned money, Yeah. and feel comfortable doing it, we need to know

Okay. how much, how long, why, and then like our town administrator said, maybe there needs to be a year-over-year plan where it might just have to do something, you know, and we don't have to keep doing these major increases every, you know, however long it is. Well, but whatever it is, I think that we need to stop bandating it and we need to fix it. Okay. So, this is just another band-aid.

Okay. So, let me propose this if other if your mayor is. So, it sounds like we more discussion needs to be had on this topic. It sounds like we can potentially postpone it till the November meeting with with Barney or someone doing a presentation or a memo style of capital projects and maybe go over the over the um

you know the list some more. We're beginning the new budget cycle. So we'll be able to potentially get a better number at least for the first year or so to see if the 8% that is seem seem like the good average right now is sufficient to get us through the first year or so and build a little bit of a bank and then look at the outy years too for a potential same or higher rate increase but provide more information on on why this is needed to you and the council. Does that sound like fair? I mean, I'm not going to speak for the council. I'm just saying my my thoughts were to to postpone to seek more information to seek um you know, if these other towns are are increasing at a major rate, there's a reason why. Okay?

Right. I'm I'm this is not a political thing for me. I'm not afraid to raise to do whatever we have to do from a town thing. And um you know, we just need to fix the issue, okay? in 2023. Let's fix the issue. Okay. 2025, let's fix the issue. Okay. So, let's let me ask the mayor this or I don't want to speak for the town. Is a month when is the November meeting? Is a month Well, by the November meeting, does that allow enough time to get some of this information and concerns? Can Can you put it in memo form? Sure. Yeah, I don't see any problem.

And Jared, that's fair. other town rates and see if what I know Woodsboro is raising it. Some other Emittsburg just raised theirs and some other local municipalities raised some because I just don't want to get to a point where councils like to kick stuff kick the can down the road. And this is unfortunately one topic that we can't kick down the road too much longer. We've kicked it down once. Previous councils have kicked it down for years and now all of a sudden we're at the point where we no longer can again. But I'll agree with the council president. I want to be able to explain more and maybe I'll be able to put something together to show my $8 a month increase if I figured it out right.

Sean.

Yeah. So, uh, first of all, um, I don't mind telling you. So, I've learned a couple things. The the the 2023 increase and we're sort of, you know, uh, singing the same song as that. So, I don't mind telling you I've been enlightened by a few things here. So, thank you very much. Uh, I'm concerned that the capital improvements um plan for the next few I'm not sure that's the whole picture that I'm hearing we need, right? I think what I'm hearing is um and I I would share this. I think what would uh put us all at ease and we could look people in the eye and say, "Well, this is the reason that we raised." I think we need to see we want to see a multi-year forecast costs and what revenue it takes to come to zero. It's not just capital improvements, right? And I think I'm also hearing that that multi- and again this probably I I could shut up. This might already exist, right? But the they need to include, you know, uh reserves and contingencies, right, for what the the town administrator was talking about. But we want to see this budgeted plan that we know number one it's already in a hole. It will increase and then what revenues need to occur in order for that to be balanced. I so again it's not just the capital projects. It's that whole picture. I just wanted to say that. I think that's what we're looking for.

Well, you know, and we're talking about it going into effect on January 1, 2026. So we're sitting October. We do have November. We do have December. I'm I'm not gonna I'm not comfortable, me personally, that's all I can speak for, rushing another increase. Um, so do we need it? Yes. Does it need to be done right? Yes. And do we have to have facts to support why we are doing it? Yes. My opinion. So, um, you know, whatever those facts are, there's a people a lot smarter than me that can generate those facts that can basically make me comfortable enough to talk to someone who asked me why I voted the way I voted.

Yeah. And I get the going into January, I was thinking about even proposing something later before I said, "Okay, never mind." It's like cuz I didn't like the six months. It just doesn't make a short six-month little thing. We could always if we don't feel comfortable by December to do it, we could always, you know, introduce something January to or another ordinance, not pass this one and then change it again, but say rewrite this ordinance kind of saying tack the 6 months on to the tail end of it. Instead of beginning in January, it goes a little bit longer if we need that extra time to build the thing back up. So, it's not like adding more. It's just instead of at the beginning of it, it's at the end of it. Instead of two years, you know, it's just reversing the extra 6 months at the tail end of the rate increase instead of at the beginning of the rate increase if we need some extra time to get to the point of proper reserves.

So, what I'll do is I'll I know that Carl, I believe you were the original. Oh, yeah. I'll postpone it. Yeah. I'll make I'll make a motion to postpone if you'll allow it. And and with this postponement, it's not a tableabling. So, the ordinance can change with it being postponed. Yeah. You know, and then be represented at a later meeting. Um, maybe it doesn't have to be, but I definitely need more information to say yes. So, um, I'd make a motion to postpone if Yeah, I'll accept it cuz I mean I'm the one that asked you to hold allow the public to speak and everything else cuz I want to make sure that we all hear the public's comments and thoughts on this since we are dealing with as you say reach reaching into their wallets and pock pocketbooks for more money.

Do we have a second on the postponement? I'll second. Okay. And then we just need that vote. Well, if that needs a vote or not, just to cover our butts, why don't we just say we have a postponement. It was accepted by the original movement. Uh it was seconded by uh council member Kelly. All in favor to postpone ordinance 2025-9 to a future meeting. Um it could be no. That's that sounds right. Just leave it a future meeting. Uh please signify by saying I I I All right. Thank you. Good discussion everyone. I appreciate that

and thank you very much Mr. Swanson for your information. All right. Next up we have unfinished business and it is a comprehensive master plan discussion with council member Demoter. Uh I do believe we had a motion. We had a second. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay. So we'll just open back up the discussion portion. All right. you want to take it away?

Yeah, sure. Thank you. And could you give me uh give me a 30 second warning if I'm talking too much? All right. So, um this is this this is serious business to me. Um, I believe that the master plan needs to be amended to fully align and harmonize the resonings for the South Main Street with the votes that this council has taken on three times for these properties. So again, the master plan presents a vision for reszoning the entire end of Extended South Main Street. That's 20 properties. The vision in the master plan is we want to take all those residential properties, change them all to commercial, and in addition, we want to carry that down Main Street down past Carter Q and have commercial creep come down that area as well. That's the vision that's in the current master plan. We have taken three votes as a council that says we don't like that vision. This is not the vision that the citizens who live in those areas have, nor the broader citizenry as expressed through the 2020 community survey, nor this council. Again, we voted three times to say we don't want that. So, I think that vision is clearly out of touch with the wants and vision of our citizens, most importantly the people who live there. You heard some of those comments at the beginning of the meeting. Um, in my view, this is going to be one of the most important votes of my second term. This to me is just as important as my vote was when the previous council voted to reszone the Beck property to MXD and relax the open space standards. And I voted against

both of those. I think this is going to have longer reaching ramifications than people are thinking. without amending the master plan in the manner I'm suggesting that portion of the current master plan if left alone I believe has a critical flaw and any future decisions tangential to the reasonzoning for the south main street as presented in the master plan without any amendments will be shaped in a manner not aligned with our citizens wishes. So if you look at land use planning guidance, it clearly says if a town council rejects proposed resonings within a master plan, the plan should be amended to reflect that decision. A master plan serves as a guide for future development and rejecting resoning requests indicates a change in the town's vision for those areas. Ignoring these rejections and leaving them in the plan would create inconsistencies and confusion. But it does more than that. It also opens up our town to high hazard, high consequence events through formalized land use challenges by the property owners who wish to reszone their property to commercial. And I believe they would have a standing to do so because they're going to come back and say the master plan says you were going to reszone these properties to commercial. It's in the plan. You approved the plan. Not only does my property on its own merits should be reszoned, but you included it as part of a vision of 20 properties for all commercial. So, you

need to reszone my property. I believe that's the situation. Um, you're setting the town up for is that kind of a consequence. Um, my my biggest my biggest sadness quite honestly on this are the citizens who live at the end of South Main Street because they think this is all done. They think, "Well, you guys took a vote. I'm safe. My property is not going to get reszoned. My neighbor's not going to turn commercial. I'm good. And they don't realize that at any time, it could be two months from now, a year from now, three years from now, if those properties stay in the master plan, any council member can come and bring an ordinance peace meal and say, "Property X, I want that reszone to commercial." And one of two bad things is going to happen. Either council members will flip and decide, I'll resone that commercial. I changed my mind. Which I think it would be bad for the citizens who live at the end of Main Street. If we hold our guns and say no, I voted no three times. I'm voting a fourth time. I think that's the right thing to do. But again, once we do that, some of those property owners are going to say, "Uh-uh, you got a signed master plan. It says you agreed to reszone my property commercial. I'm I'm taking consequential action to the town." So, I I I I could I could talk more. I've laid out my position at the last two council meetings. Um, a last point is I believe land use planning law so to speak has changed since the 2013 plan.

It used to be you wrote a master plan and had a collection of plans and ideas and you know we might want to change this zoning to this and do that and maybe annex. But a law changed and the law changed to now say when you have a master plan that master plan serves as a guide for actions you intend to to take. So it's not just a collection of willy-nilly I may do these things. You are basically saying my reasonzonings and such that I have in my master plan. I'm not kidding guys. I'm I'm going to implement this. These are actions I intend to take. And because of that, again, you've got this schism for what's in the master plan and now what the council has voted on. Two different visions. And that's why I believe the right thing to do. It may be a little painful. It's a lot of work. There are some some other risks associated with taking that approach. the right thing to do from a policy perspective is to act now and amend the master plan and that's that's where I sit on the matter. So, thank you. I'll go council president if you were looking for people. Well, unfortunately on this one, normally if it was just a simple action of amending the master plan, I would say okay, I'm willing to take a look at it. But unfortunately it it's not as easy as Councilman Demod is making it out to be. This past session the general assembly passed SB266 HB287 which has upended in my view and

probably a lot of other municipalities views the master planning process in general. While it seems like it's easier by reducing 12 visions down to eight, unfortunately those eight visions now have to the master plan has to comprise those eight visions. And some of those visions are very much different than what than what our master plan currently has in it. And it's also I believe we've checked with the state department of planning and things of that and unfortunately we would have to redo the whole master plan under the current law. It's just not oh looking at these take these 12 properties out amend it to that. It is rewriting a whole master plan for the town. And I'm not sure I can defer to the planning commission if they have the time for a bunch of volunteer for the volunteers to put in another year year and a half on it then go to the planning commission and basically rework the whole master plan process and we will end up with a master plan that is far different than what we have now. And I'm not saying those 12 properties don't deserve to be taken out, but we run a true true risk of ending up with a master plan for land use, housing types, everything else that is truly different and it will cause us more I don't want to say trouble or hassle, but more concern in the long run for how this town develops over the next 10 years. So that's basically going to say with everything that's coming down related to housing right now from the state level, we have a pass master plan. Is it

perfect in some people's views? No. But as long as I'm on this council, I'm not going to change my vi mind or go against the existing wishes of the council. A person can bring in any changes. I've gone through it a couple times with other land owners. The council does not have to approve a request. They can tell anyone no. So, it's just whoever sits at this desk needs to decide what is best for the town. Leave it is or changing it a little little bit. I'm going to say no for the most for everything that's if a land if an individual land owner or somebody brings something different. But I'm more afraid of ending up with a plan in the long run for the next 10 years that can be far worse for this town than what it is now of a con general concern of some potential commer residential changing to commercial unfortunately. So that's my discussion right now on it. I wish Tom was here to alleviate some stuff but I'm good. Thank you Mr. President. Sure. Thank you. Yeah. Um,

first of all, I I'd like to I'm trying to find the right words, not the wrong words. It's not easy, is it?

Hard on this side. I'd like to get our stuff together because I've heard from planning commission members who went through significant turnover in the home stretch of the master plan and the town council four-fifths are still sitting here that they were told that they didn't need to deliberate. They didn't need to debate chapter 4. They could do it at the table and that's what we've done. So that's not the whole issue. that's a related issue, but going forward, I would we really need to get that ironed out because there's different shades and different stories there. Um, regarding the extended South Main uh, property specifically, I was most really uncomfortable with the fact of and I, as a citizen, I brought this up in I believe it was the last workshop. I was uncomfortable with, oh, this whole swath of property owners, 12 or 20, whatever is Oh, they all want it. No, that no. I was kind of shushed and no and then um six, eight months later, I'm knocking on doors and some of them are in tears. So, no, we just moved here. No, we just moved here. This is this is my first home. So, things change. The homeowners had turnover. The planning commission had turnover. Um the master plan is not a contract. It is not a binding contract. Um Carl C. Council Mun just said it's up to the town council to uh execute execute those or not. Lastly, you know, I I I I'm I'm disappointed that some citizens were told that it's it's in their best

interest that we do this. I I um other others have said this is it's not just as simple as opening up chapter 4, amending some text, and closing it. It's a It's an entire process and um I believe that the u pros outweigh the cons of leaving it be. Um if it was going to if if it if we needed to go back and amend these plans, I don't know, why don't we go back to 2013? Let's make that match reality. I mean, you know, we could say that there was an MXD ordinance issued for a specific development. We could say, "Oh, well, you know, the plan called for it didn't support the O'Brien property being being reszoned, but oh no, let's reszone it after being uh scared and fooled." So, um, master plan doesn't always match reality. Thank you. Good. I

I have a very quick followup if whenever it's the right time. Very short. Yeah, I'll I'll go real quick. Um Well, go ahead. Go ahead, Steve.

Well, I I want to I just want to offer a differing point of view. So, I heard Council Member Mund say, and I heard other people say this. Well, I'm sitting here on the council and I have no intent of changing my vote. they those properties can come come up and I'm gonna stand firm on that. This was the whole point of one of my points is if you do that that's great but that property owner who wanted it switched to commercial I believe will take consequential action because they will have grounds to say you have a signed master plan that says you're going to reszone my property commercial and legislatively you said you're not going to reszone my my property. you said you're going to do that in in the master plan and you approved that and and they're going to have I believe standing to challenge the town. The other quick comment is I I think council member Kelly, you said, "Well, this this isn't a binding contract to the point I made and and I got this from from our advisors." I it's it's that line I said about a law being changed that said, "Your master plan is now a guide upon which you plan to take action." So, it kind of is more weighty like a contract. It's saying I'm intending to take these actions and it's not just a menu of stuff I may or may not do. So, I just wanted to to robot those points. Thank you.

So, first I want to thank Councilman Demoter for his patience because we we have kind of talked about this for probably what three months now and actually even even longer than that. Um, but we we were on the cusp of of making a vote last month that had um unintended consequences that none of us were aware of and and even our town attorney at the time was was not aware of. uh which is why we had a recess and why we had to discuss it and then why we subsequently had a meeting uh to really dig into what would happen if we did reopen the master plan. My thoughts were, hey, we're looking at chapter 4 and I think I even said it, we're looking at chapter four and we're only going to look at we're only going to look at the properties that are that are being listed uh and nothing else. And um you know in in my head that sounds very easy. Well, unfortunately the state does not allow that to happen. Um the entire plan opens up and I would highly suggest everyone to go look at what was passed on October 1st because once we open it up, what was passed on October 1st gets put into our master plan whether we wanted to or not. Uh and that does not align with I believe anyone's vision sitting at this table or anyone in our town. Um so you know the unintended consequences uh of of certain things can can really hurt you uh if you're making decisions that you don't know what the ramifications are completely on all sides. Um, you know, the fact is the master plan is not a zoning action. You are not guaranteed to be reszoned just because you're in a master plan. You're just not. I can go back to 2013

and I can look at seven different eight different maybe even 30 different things that are in that master plan that didn't get done that probably be in the master plans for 30 years that didn't get done. And I think Ralph, we I was at a meeting where you even pulled some stuff out like this has been in here for 30 years and we just it's just wasting space. It's never going to get done. So, let's just pull it out. Okay. So, um you know, if if a property owner wants to challenge, okay, that's fine because the master plan is not a zoning action. you. It's a It's a thought process that if these properties were to be reszoned, they will be reszoned commercial because it's a good spot for commercial. Sure. If the legislative body decides to reszone them, well, we didn't. And therefore, they're in there that if they were to be reszoned again in the future or or whatever, you know, that's up to that legislative body. But I don't believe it that they will be reszoned. Um, and frankly, what the state wants put into this master plan, I have no interest in putting that in there either. Um, so, you know, my thoughts are this is when the citizens need to be involved. If you're worried about the commercial entity being put onto Extended South Main Street, I suggest you vet the people that are running for reelection or running for election, period. I suggest you get out and vote for people that align with your train of thought. Um because honestly anything could happen based on that master plan from this legislative body. So it's very important to know who you're voting for, know what they stand for and what they're willing to do and what they're willing not to do. But the pros do not outweigh the cons when reopening this master plan. Not if we have to open up the whole thing. Um I

don't like that. I wish we could just change chapter four. In my heart of hearts, I do. Um, but I'll tell you this, I won't vote for anybody in the future that says they want extended South Main to turn to commercial. So, um, somebody wants to challenge that, okay, we've been challenged before and we've turned out just fine. So, I'm I'm comfortable with that. Um, but the master plan is not a zoning action. And there is no contract. There is no guarantee. And to be quite honest, we don't owe a land owner anything. You bought a residential property. If you want it commercial, that's fine. If it's in the best interest of the town, we'll do it. If it's not, we won't. But if you need a judge to decide that, then I'm comfortable going that route. So that's where I'm at on it.

Yep. Yeah, I think um I'll let you look at this before I read it. Is this the motion that was made without all my scribble all over it? Because I can read through it just to read it into the record because right now there's we're discussing a motion, but the citizens don't know what that motion is. Yeah.

Okay. So, Council Member Deoter's motion was I make the motion that the town community planning director be directed to submit for the planning commission's consideration proposed amendments to the current town master comprehensive plan for later consideration by this town council as follows. One, that the master plan be amended to remove from the list of properties that were recommended to be reszoned those properties that have not been reszoned. Two, that as to any properties that have been reszoned but to zoning districts other than those recommended by the current master plan, that the master plan be amended to reflect recommendations consistent with the reszoning of those properties by the town council. And then three, that certain clerical uh errors be corrected as indicated by council member Demoter's red lines uh which he planned on providing to the zoning administrator or the community planning director is the way he put it. So that's the motion that was on the table and I'll just chime in a a couple tidbits before you hold the vote on that. And uh one of them is that the planning commission has already done their job. They created a master plan. They had several workshops. They had several meetings. John's put together a chronological order of all the meetings and everything that went into that. And uh and it was a multi-year process and they they gave you the recommendation. So I to to send it back to them and to ask the planning commission to come up with a different recommendation is unfair. They did their job and they they provided you uh with their best recommendation. Uh the other thing is when we talk about all the properties on South Main and I am sympathetic to the uh to the residents that are down there,

I get it. But uh but the biggest chunk of property down there is is um is the Voslo property which is at the interse intersection of I70 and Highway 27. Um you know across from McDonald's and Chick-fil-A. If that's not a a large chunk of property that would eventually be zone commercial, then there's nowhere in town that would be zone commercial. the intersection of 70 and highway 27. What happens to the residents that are adjoining that in terms of zoning? That's up to the future councils. They'll they'll figure that out. They'll do what they need to do. We've shown over the time that I've been the mayor and even the time I was on the council that zonings occur uh you know sometimes on a whim. Um, and sometimes the zonings come in because of that significant change. And sometimes the zonings come in because of a mistake. Um, and sometimes somebody comes in with a mistake which is documented on paper such as a map error and we still didn't reszone them. Uh, and that was the Voslo property. So, you know, these are things that are handled by the council at that time. I'm not in favor of kicking anything back to a planning commission that did an excellent job putting things together and I'm not in favor of the council having me direct staff to go back and redo it again. So, uh, the council held a vote. I understand why some council members feel like they didn't get the whole story and it was the first time that you have sat through a master plan. So, I I totally get it. um you know why you would think that that you know you thought there was a another bite at the apple at some point. I I totally understand that and and maybe that was

something that I should have uh understood going into it and emphasized to you. So I apologize for that. But uh but this master plan is passed. I think that um you know certainly there were two council members at the table who introduced it or made the motion and seconded the motion. So, uh, it's it's my recommendation that you live with what you got and and we deal with these zonings as they come at us. Uh, as opposed to what we did in the beginning, which was one big mass reszoning. Uh, we'll just deal with these as they come at us one at a time. Uh, that that's my recommendation. So, thank you.

Yeah. And that's even if they come at us, you know, but um what I will tell you is nobody's going to come at that podium and demand anything based on this master plan. That's not the the way master plans work. Um there's no guarantees. There's no uh contract that's being signed. Um that's why a vote has to take place. So you can on one hand say that it's in the master plan. you no longer need to vote to reszone my property. Well, yes, we do. We need to vote for it because it's not guaranteed. So, there is no contract. There is no nothing. It's up to this legislative body if they choose to reszone it. Which is why I don't believe that if anyone tried to challenge just the mere fact that it's in the master plan as commercial would hold any weight when going in court against uh this body. Um I I don't believe it holds any water at all. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to vote. If it was already a contract and was already set in stone, you wouldn't have to bring it back to us. So, you know what what I'm going to say is too is is this. Um the master plan process was was one that we all uh went through for the first time in in the the shared seating that we're in. Um you know, I want to say at one point I think the the words government malpractice uh were mentioned. Um, and I I don't believe that to be accurate. What I will tell you, it was council president malpractice. It was on me. I'm the head of this damn Oh, I'm sorry. Whoops. I'm the head of this I'm the head of this I'm the head of this this governing body. And when I asked the question, will we get a chance to do this? I should have asked more questions. I should have known exactly what the process was before moving forward. This isn't on town staff. This isn't on a mayor. This isn't on anybody.

When it comes to this council, you guys put me in this seat to make sure that things happen the right way. And for that, they didn't. And I'm sorry that I did not uh ensure that we had that opportunity. But that does not mean that I'm willing to then accept everything that was voted on on October 1st to be put into our master plan. Um so you know I just uh I apologize for that. I apologize to the council. Um but I I don't think that it is an end all beall mistake. Um, you know, I think that that this master plan is fine. I do think that if those properties were to ever be reszoned, which if as long as I'm on this council, they will not be, they would go commercial, I'm sure. I don't believe they should be reszoned. Um, but, uh, you know, I think that that's just kind of where it has to be and and where we need to leave it. So, you know, with that, I think we can probably get to a vote. Um, so we had Does anyone else wish to speak or we Okay, so with that I will go ahead and uh voted out. So can I see your paper? through my red.

So, we did have a motion uh by council member Mund that the town council member demoter that the community planning director be directed to submit for the planning commission's consideration proposed amendments to the current town master or comprehensive plan town master or comprehensive plan for the later consideration by this town council as follows. the master plan be amended to remove from the list of the properties that were recommended to be reszoned those properties that have not been reszoned. That as to any properties that have been reszoned but to zoning districts other than those recommended by the current master plan. that the master plan be amended to reflect recommendations consistent with the reszoning of the properties by the town council and that certain clerical errors be corrected as indicated by my red lines which I will provide to the community planning director. Uh all in favor of this motion, please signify by saying I

I opposed. Nay. A there was no second. There was I actually seconded it. My bad. No, it's okay. Thank you. Yep. All right. Then moving on, uh we're going to move into uh closed session uh under 3-305B for litigation, which I think will be quick because he's not here. Yeah.

And 3-305B subs at three for land acquisition at the conclusion of those close sessions. This town council meeting will be adjourned. We will roll call into close session. So I'll start with council member Deoter. I council member Mund I. Council Secretary Evans. Hi. Council Secretary Kell or Council Member Kelly. I I'm an I as well. We'll see everybody next month. Thank you.