Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Hello and welcome to our planning commission meeting. Today is Thursday, December 11th at 6:30 p.m. Um, we are going to get started off tonight with a prayer and then please join me in rising for the Pledge of Allegiance. A little housekeeping because this is a great turnout tonight. Thank you all for being here. If you haven't signed in at the door, please do so. Awesome. Um, member Watt is going to lead us in prayer tonight. Our heavenly father, as we come before thee at this time, we're so grateful to be here and to perform our civic duties unto thee. We ask thee, Father, to bless us with an abundance of thy spirit this night that we might remain kind and civil to each other as we go through these issues on behalf of the county and as citizens and within this county. We pray and we ask for these blessings in the name of thy beloved son Jesus Christ. Amen.

Amen. Pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] Do I have a motion to approve the agenda for tonight? So moved. Motion by member Sessions. Second. Second by member Watt. All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries unanimous. Um, any conflict of interest tonight with anything on the agenda

on the conflict of interest? I don't have a conflict of interest, but given uh item number nine, I would like on the record that my company is an occasional paying user of the range facilities.

Thank you. Seeing no additional conflicts of interest, we'll move into public comment. If you are here to speak tonight about our legislative item um for the reszone, that will have its own public hearing. So, you can come forward at that time. If you are here to speak to us about anything administrative, so um item agenda item six, seven or eight, you can come forward now. But if it is legislative, please wait until that time and we will have a public hearing for that item. And if you are coming forward, please state your name for the record. Seeing none, we'll move into our administrative items for the evening. [clears throat] Thank you, Madam Chair, and good evening to the planning commission. Item number six on the agenda is for the Ponderosa. I'm going to try to fix that, Madam Chair. It's the Ponderosa subdivision preliminary plot.

Your mic's not on the mic. I don't

I'll speak into the mic. Is that It doesn't sound like it's on. Yours does not. Jeremy, help. Jeremy. What if I get real close? Does that help? It's better. It does. All right. Your loud voice.

Um, madam chair, item number six is for the Ponderosa subdivision preliminary plot. This item's come before the commission before at prior uh meeting dates for tonight. Staff requests that the item uh not be continued at this time. and the applicants working with staff to uh bring forward a proposal that meets all of our our code requirements. Um staff will renotice and bring back the item to the planning commission at a later date. Thank you.

Check mic check. You do not need a motion for us to do that. Correct. I'm not sure. Honestly, are we planning on not renotice? Noticing it. We'll renotice. We don't want to continue. Okay. Yeah. So, we don't need motion. Cool. Great. Thank you.

Okay. Um, Madam Chair, before I move on to item seven, maybe just a bit of a education for the benefit of of all those here. So there the meeting is split into administrative items and one legislative item. So when it gets to an administrative item, it's a matter of an applicant checking [clears throat] all of the boxes um meeting all of the the relevant code requirements. um in this case for a couple of plat amendments on the agenda tonight, Madam Chair, where when when an applicant does uh submit a proposal that meets all meets the requirements of our code, staff will come forward with a recommendation uh and uh for approval or I suppose denial if they don't meet all of the code requirements and the planning commission will hear that item, make a make a recommendation to the elected officials, the county commission to make an a decision whether to approve or deny an administrative application. For a legislative application, it's less about checking the boxes and uh making a proposal. And this is for something that usually in uh involves a change in entitlements, thinking from one zone to another and a reszone or an amendment to perhaps a development agreement. Was there legislative actions where it would come before a meeting like this one, have a public hearing to both the planning commission and a separate one for the county commission? Uh where the county commission has has discretion to approve or deny a legislative application. And so I just wanted to make that clear, help that kind of guide the discussion for the meeting tonight, Madam Chair. So item seven is the LDS Mountain Green Cottonwood Canyon Road subdivision first amended. That's application 24.067. The applicant is Samuel Perry of uh Perry Curtain McConi, a law firm out of

Boisee, Idaho. And madam chair, I want to know if uh representative for the applicant is in the audience tonight. Um so seeing that I don't see such a person here, but um the owner is the of course the corporation of the presiding LDS uh bishop LDS. So, the project location is 4210 West Cottonwood Canyon Road, identified by the parcel number and serial number in your meeting packet tonight with the current zoning being a split with a minor amount of residential which is an R120 zone and agriculture which is a 20 acre minimum zone overwhelming on the property. The acreage uh affected by tonight's proposal proposal, Madam Chair, is 28.97 acres and the request is for a lot line adjustment to lot four of the subdivision, the LDS Mountain Green Cottonwood Canyon Road subdivision namely. So staff having reviewed this application and some of the professional county staff including the county surveyor, the Mountain Green Fire Protection District, the county recorder and county planning staff all having reviewed this application bring forward a a recommendation of approval for for tonight's application. Madam Chair, uh the uh some details for the for the proposal uh include a a more minor lot line adjustment. Uh the the church property receiving approximately half an acre of property with the lot line on the northwestern side moving approximately 42 ft to the north. Um otherwise um nothing [clears throat] really to uh speak about regarding the zoning regulations. This will only add acreage to a already conforming property. Madam chair otherwise um staff is happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions for staff? I I have one. Um, this is more of a a boundary line adjustment than a lot line because it's changing the boundary of the subdivision. The procedure is still the same that we're doing. It's just more semantics that we're semantics that we're actually changing the boundary of the subdivision, not a a lot line, I suppose. So, yeah, with the lines of a lot in the Cottonwood or the LDS Cottonwood subdivision and then a an adjoining parcel, right? It extend it is enlarging the subdivision. True. So it it's just call it a boundary line adjustment I think in the motion.

That works. Request questions. Any discussion?

Are you ready for a motion? Now you are. I move we recommend approval to the county commission of the LDS Mountain Green Cottonwood Canyon Road subdivision first amended application 24.067 [snorts] 067 allowing for a boundary line adjustment located at 4210 West Cottonwood Canyon Road in unincorporated Morgan County based on the findings and with the conditions listed in staff report dated December 11th, 2025. Motion by member Sessions. Do we have a second? Second. Second by member Watt. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Motion carries unanimous. Moving on. Madam Chair, item number eight on your agenda or on the agenda for tonight is the Cottonwood Spring View PUB third plat amendment. This is application number 25.028. The applicant and owner of both lots in this subdivision, Madam Chair, is Jeff Holden, who is in the audience tonight. The location of both lots uh is as follows. 6348 and 6358 South Wasach Back Drive uh with the identifying parcel and serial numbers in your staff report tonight. And the current zoning is is rural residential as an underlying zone uh but is governed by the Cottonwoods development agreement and is also governed by the uh Cottonwood Spring View APU plat. So the request for tonight, Madam Chair, is a lot line adjustment or perhaps rather a boundary line adjustment to lots 710 and 711 of the affformentioned subdivision. the the proposal includes an enlargement to one of the lots and and the size of the other decreasing. So lot 7-Eleven, which is currently 0.59 acres, would gain approximately 0.32 acres. Um resulting in a new total of 0.91 acres. So an increase in size like like mentioned. Uh but lot 710 would decrease from 0.64 64 acres to 0.32 acres. And uh staff looked at again the governing document being the PUB plat doesn't necessarily specify a a number saying 0.25 acre lots is the minimum. When it doesn't say that, we looked at the the minimum size of the

smallest lot we could find in that subdivision and found that this uh 0.32 acres is is right there. not the not dipping below that that amount of acreage for the for a similar sized lot uh in the subdivision. Um otherwise the reviewing staff, Madame Chair, uh consisting of the county engineer, the county surveyor, county recorder, the Mountain Green Fire Department, and planning staff, uh all having reviewed this uh or providing a recommendation of approval for it tonight, Madam Chair. And uh the staff is happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions for staff?

So to clarify the current smallest lot is a 0.32 and now there's lot adjustment we go make this what would be the current smallest lot the smallest lots we could find having no no no discretion in that. So it means optimum density in the subject.

Um if the applicant would like to speak and is in the audience, you can. You don't have to, but if you'd like to, you're welcome to come forward. Okay. Questions, comments, discussion? Any objection to it? You want me to make a motion? You want to?

Madam Chair, I move we recommend approval of the county commission in Cottonwood Spring View PUB third plat amendment application number 25.028 allowing for a lot line adjustment located at 6348 and 6358 South Wasach Back Drive in unincorporated in Morgan County. based on the findings and with the conditions listed in the staff report dated 11th of December of 2024. I have a motion by member Wilson. Do we have a second? Second. Second by member McMillan. All in favor? I I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimous.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, how I mentioned there's administrative items on the list. We are now switching over to the legislative portion of the meeting which includes the public hearing for the Morgan County reszone. That's application 25.058. The applicant, Madame Chair, is Kate Becker in the audience tonight. Her title being administrative manager of the of Morgan County. The project location is um 870 East Mahogany Ridge Road and is identified by the parcel and serial number in your packet tonight. The current zoning is is multiple use uh has an abbreviation of MU160 with the county general plan and the applicable future land use map showing this area as natural resources and recreation with the acreage currently at 29.48 48 acres. And the request for tonight, Madam Chair, is to reszone property from MU160 to residential, which is abbreviated as R120, and reflect that change on the future land use map from natural resources and recreation to the to the village low density residential designation in our future land use map. Madam chair. So when staff receives an application like this, we look at the merits of the proposal being in the multiple use zone being a 160 acre minimum zone. The acreage of the property being non-conforming in size at this current time. Uh look at the request to reszone to R120, which again is a 20,000 foot minimum zone. And madam chair, that roughly equals to 0.46 acres for 20,000 foot lots, which doesn't in include um highdensity town homes or anything

like that, but does include the a low density single family residential subdivision possibly in the future with approval of a reszone. So with uh with that in mind, good planning practice does um include buffering which is which would be sandwiched between the counties or the city's uh highdensity zoning and the the multiple use zoning all around the property to the to the north and east. And if the commission does find merit in a reszone tonight, Madam Chair, the conditions listed in the staff report read as follows. One, that the amendment is is appropriate giving adjacency to higher density city zoning existing infrastructure and the low density character of the proposed R120 zoning. Two, that the reszone is unlikely to adversely if impact surrounding properties, many of which are are 0.30 30 acres or smaller. Three, that the amendment supports county objectives while maintaining an orderly land use pattern. And four, that the proposed amendment is in harmony with existing land uses in the area. Uh, with that, Madam Chair, happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

Any questions for staff? not for staff, but maybe if Kate wants to speak next before we go into a public hearing, give some more context. Starting the discussion. I've got a little background into it too as I researched and I'd like to share with you guys. Let Kate go and then

Hello. Hi. This is weird. Do this butt. Um, so I'm Kate Becker. I'm the county's administrative manager. As you can tell from the mapping commission. Um, the city has brought high density all the way up to this property. We were lucky enough um to have a um local company move um 10 tons of earth for us to protect the burm. We already had to shut down long range rifles on this twice just this year because there's cattle or I'm sorry sheep grazing behind it. Um at the end of the day because of it is in the annexation plan of the city and what the city has built pretty much up to it. Um it's no longer safe to have the rifle range there. We are we being the county are fully intending to move it. Um, however, in its current zoning designation, I'm not going to get much out of that property. By reszoning it, I get a lot more money, which means I get a lot more acreage elsewhere. Um, we are not in the redevelopment business. This is nothing to do with selling the property. This is prepping to see what I can get out of the property for when we move it to some place that doesn't have urban sprawl climbing all the way up to its burm. Um, this is a restricted fund by the county, meaning that every dollar that when you get your um permit or your your day use pass for this, it stays in the rifle range, the rifle range itself is not financially supported by county tax dollars. It's it's solely protected by fees that you guys pay to use the range. So in the surplusing of this property, it stays in rifle range fund. So all

those dollars that we get from the inevitable sale of this property will go into purchasing a new one. The county just uh went into partnership with the 4 extension for a rifle club. So um it makes absolutely no sense. the people thinking that we're getting rid of this um because we're 100% not getting rid of the rifle range. We're getting rid of the current location because of the urban sprawl. Um is there EPA le issues with the ground? Absolutely. Does that have anything to do with our request to reszone? Nope. That'll be something that we'll have to remediate before we can actually sell the property, which will be sold per the county's surplus um process. We would love to do a land swap, but I have 5 billion developers that want this land. Um and right now, if I sell it at MU160, I might get 160K out of 29 acres. That's not going to build me much of a rifle range uh elsewhere in the county. That's the entire purpose of the reason. Um, we are not anti-gun. I am an 18-year veteran of the United States Army. Three of my six sons served. I have one interned in Arlington. Um, I'm a range instructor. Von Nickerson is a huge shoot club person. We've just contracted with extension for a gun club. So there is no intention in the county period of getting rid of a rifle range in the county proper. We have to move it because of what's all around it. So do you have any further questions for me minus that short abbreviation?

Yeah, maybe do you have kind of a timeline realistically?

Nope. I have to get it reasoned before I can get it appraised. Um, and I don't know about you, but EPA is the probably slower than FEMA. Um, we just moved 10 ton of dirt. So, probably a year or two, but nowhere less than a year is our intent because we're going to have all that remediation. We're not getting rid of the search and rescue building. I have a grant paid for building behind or in front if you're looking at it, the search and rescue building where we keep all of our emergency equipment for the sheriff's uh fire and swiftwater. That's going to stay. We're not getting rid of that in any way, shape, or form. This is just the range itself. I need I need to move it before somebody gets shot or someone shoots a sheep. Granted, I'm a farmer's daughter, so sheep are either dead or dying anyway, but I prefer not to shoot one.

Is there plans so to accommodate the long range shooting? Oh, yeah. 1,000 ft.

Yes, that's kind of one of the big purposes, too. So, this is obviously a 29 acre um non-conforming size. Um, we want we want to be able to have comp competition shoots. We want it to be a tourism attraction where people can come up and shoot. Obviously, keeping with the locals having first writer refusal, but that's our end goal is to have a state-of-the-art um facility wherever we moved it to. We have not identified a place to move to. I don't know what pennies I can get out of it before I know where I can buy land. But we're definitely going to be buying land that's nowhere near an urban sprawl. So, any more questions for Kate? My business card is literally in the back. If you're you won't be the first 15th or 100th person to yell at me about this, but um if you don't get your question answered, my card's in that deck over there and I'm I'm here to chew on after this. But um and I'm happy to respond to anything that comes up in public.

Thank you. Thanks, Commission. Do I do you want to say your piece before moving to public hearing?

So I'm assuming majority of people are here for same reason and when this came up on I wanted to make sure that I I understood fully. So I reached out to get some more information to make sure that even though we're representing county at the same time it's it's for what's best for the county residents as well. So I reached out and I haven't had any discussion with you guys to make sure that I fall in line with the with the open meetings act. So, uh, but I did reach out to our commissioner and had a discussion, gave him my concerns with it being, you know, I've lived here in Morgan my entire life, have use a rifle range many times, uh, have an interest with just the what's best for the county, understanding that where the rifled range is located in accordance with Morgan City, utilities or lack of utilities as far as the county is concerned being in that area. It It's a little bit of a tough piece of property for the county to own. However, losing our rifle range is something that was a big concern to me as probably everybody and everybody that's here. So, as I kind of went down this path and had those questions to the commissioner was what's the intent of it? Why am I seeing it here? And we discussed a little bit the roll out and how we we were noticed on it. Kind of surprised me as I saw it on our agenda too. So, um and secondly, okay, well, what is the plan moving forward then? Why? Why are we doing this? And what is your plan moving forward? Through that discussion, he ensured me that the intent of it is to make that piece of property more desirable to somebody if they were to purchase it. Gives us the best ability then to purchase a better piece of property that would uh encapsulate rifle range, long range, long range shooting range. Uh put a shooting venue that would also enable our high school rodeo team to host trap shoots, give us a better venue than what we have currently. uh at this time, like I say, there's concerns with the insurance.

We've had to haul in the material that we have in order to even put up a burm to utilize it as it has been. So, those things make sense to me. If if we can't use it the way we want, well, let's find something better. And I think that's the intent of this reszone here is to enable us to make that piece of a property more attractive to somebody who may purchase it. Maybe it's through the annexation of the city or whatever reason so that we can have more monies than to reinvest into a better piece of property that allow us to utilize it for what it should be and even expand its uses as to the one we have today. So, uh, I think the only thing I would ask and I guess kind of legally or can we put some verbiage in there that there'd be no steps forward or those monies will all be contained utilized solely for and I believe you touched on that Kate that that money will have to be every dollar of it reinvested into same type shooting range or what?

No, it's outside the power of the planning commission. It's a county commission. Not even we can't even make suggestions. You can make a recommendation. Recommendation. Yeah.

And I think hopefully in doing so if we move through this that would give some peace of mind to all the citizens of the county who are concerned with it that the intent behind it would be to reinvest those dollars into a better facility to serve the county than the one we currently have. And I kind of was insured at the same time nothing is going to happen to that until we have a plan to move forward on where that will be. it won't be sell and then we'll find something and someday we'll get another one cuz that was my concern too. Okay, great. Somebody comes with the money now. So, we sell it to get the money now. Well, how long as a county resident without a rifle range or without a shooting venue? And I've been assured that until a plan is in place with another piece of property that suits this venue that nothing will happen. And obviously there's some remediation factors and other things that'll have to go into effect first. But and as I sat back, heard these things, had that discussion, talked about it, it made sense to me. It's like if we can get better what we have today and put it into into a different area in the county where there's more longevity to it, well, let's make the proper steps to make that piece of property uh of more value so we can get more bang for our buck. I I think you're right. If you try to sell that piece of property at a MU160, we're limited on the amount of dollars that any investor is going to want to pour into that. At the point it's reszoned, it makes its value grow greatly. So, in order to increase the value of it, the reszone makes sense on on that portion.

Thank you. I have some remarks I'd like to make. Can we I'm going to make a motion to move into public hearing and then we can have discussion. Yeah, let's have the public hearing and then we can have discussion after.

So for those of you who haven't been here, we are the planning commission. We are not the county commission. So we make recommendations. We are appointed, not elected. So we will move into a public hearing. I just want to make that note tonight. What we say still goes on to the county commission and ultimately they will have the final legislative say on that. That will be public noticed as well. the date of that meeting and anytime there is a legislative hearing whether it's with the planning commission or the county commission there is always a public hearing and you will always have time to be heard and it's always an open meeting and the discussion is always public so just wanted to go over order of operations there and we'll get a motion here in a minute but please state your name for the record and 3m minute limit because we have a full room tonight which I love thank you all for being here okay do I have a motion to move into public hearing hearing. So moved. Motion by member Sessions.

Second by member Wilson. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimous. Come forward. State your name for the record. I will not respond to anything. So we'll just take notes.

Okay. My name is Cameron Porter. I happen to live in that urban sprawl. I dislike that characterization. um but uh suburban [snorts] uh and my backyard actually backs up to the rifle range. So there is not there are very few people in this town or in this county who are going to be affected as much as by this decision as I will be. So I do want to dispute a couple of things. I dislike that we're going to be at the mercy of everyone's intent following the decision of this meeting. I'm sure you have the best of intentions. I'm sure you have the greatest intentions, but that doesn't matter because after this, unless we keep our ear to the ground diligently after every planning commission meeting and every commission meeting for the next 24 months, we're going to miss those public hearings. The only reason I knew about this is because I got a letter cuz I happen to live next to it. But I was assured that there is a column in the standard examiner to fulfill those, you know, those compliance requirements. I also find it a little bit disingenuous that we can't get a uh a valuation on the property until it's already zoned R120. I I can understand why we might not be able to get an official valuation, but we but any realtor that's been doing their job for longer than 2 weeks can pull comps as if the property was R120. We should have a ballpark figure of exactly what the value difference on the property would be if it is owned R120. That should not be an obstacle. I would also be shocked to discover that we're going to be able to sell one parcel for a certain amount of dollars and find an equivalent or roughly equivalent parcel for less money. We're definitely going to be downgrading acreage. I mean, unless I'm crazy, we're definitely going to be downgrading on the acreage. I also find it difficult to believe that it is cheaper to do to build a completely new rifle range and do lead mitigation on the existing rifle

range in preparation for selling than it would be to simply mitigate the safety concerns on the existing property. Um, we've already mitigated fire danger. I am aware that that the dirt was donated for that purpose. We can find other ways to mitigate. There are sound concerns. Now, I've lived there for a while. I haven't really noticed any concerns since exploding targets were prohibited. However, I I hear the chuckles. Yeah. Back in the day, right? No. Um, but any existing having lived there for a long time, I can remember very few occasions where I heard a a gunshot that was so loud that it was startling to me. And in those cases, it's going to be a large caliber rifle like a 50 BMG or a 338 Laoola. So, you could simply prohibit the use of those large caliber rifles or require suppressors for them. There are far lowerhanging fruit solutions to every concern facing the current rifle range. Um, sorry, I think I've used up too much time. I was going to get I had a whole saliv man, but uh I'm going to call it. [applause] So, I'm Steve Gail, but I'm also the mayor of Morgan City. And uh my phone's like uh so let me just give you a proposal. 29.48 acres would be a huge development in our city for housing. And currently, it's not in the city. would have to annex that. They'd have to join in on the infrastructure uh and a currently blowing up area of the city with housing. 128 town homes proposed just neighboring that just a little ways away. So, what I'm saying is, you know, the city could really enjoy a

park. And I think that maybe we can have a discussion with the city and the county to maybe find a way that the city could find a grant and purchase the property and create a park. Um, badly needed probably in your area. Absolutely.

And the other thing I want to say is we don't have a safe way in the city from the north side of the city to cross over to the freeway across the freeway uh for the kids to travel safely. We're currently uh looking at putting in a fish pond over by tractor supply and that's going to create an interest for if you're a 10-year-old to hop on your bike and run over there. Uh, so you have to you have to navigate the on-ramp and the off-ramp and there's not a lot of visual there. We're we're in the process of working with you DOT on a study to see how we can improve that safety of that zone. But I would like to say that uh I think this would be in the best interest of city and county to maybe not put more stack housing up there, but to look at an option that we could get together, county and city, and see if there's a way that we could actually find a way to put a park there or some type of facility that would benefit everybody, um county and city. Uh the reason I'm sort of concerned is several years ago I had my grandson get hit on his bike uh with a person speeding onto the on-ramp uh coming over to see his grandpa. Uh and now the traffic from I don't know 10 15 years ago is way more dangerous. So that's what I'm saying. the north side always has to go across and that's not the county's fault. That's maybe the city can take the blame for we didn't plan that. But my phone and my feelings is I I feel like we could get together and talk about it and u figure out a way that we can turn this to something that that the residents of the north side of the city need. Thank you.

[applause]

My name is Chad Adams. I live in the Portville area. Just a quick comment. Uh my concern, not that I think the proposal, as Mr. McMillan said, is probably a wise thing for the city or the county, whatever. My concern is as I have watched in the 67 years I've lived in this county, property values go from a fair market price to way out there. I really believe that. I think we're I think we're out of control a little bit with what people are asking and and getting for property because there's always someone that has the money. When I was a kid, there was very few that had much money, but now there's always someone who's got the money. I don't have it, but someone does. And so my concern is is that if we sell that property and with the hope to find someone that will sell us a piece of property equivalent or better or better for x amount of dollars, uh if we show interest, they're going to say we're going to sell it to the highest bidder. And so my question is, is the county is is this are we in a position to get in a bidding with uh with someone else for a piece of property? Because if I'm a land owner and the county comes to me and says, "I'll give you $3 million for that." Well, if you think it's worth three million, this gentleman, he'll pay me four for it. So suddenly we lose we lose our current facility and then we're trying to access a new one and we're in a bid trying to find property cuz 29 acres seems like a lot. It's not. When you start talking rifle I have a personal uh range of my own and it sits on 160 acres and even then sometimes I don't feel safe without long range shooting. So my only question is before we jump and sell, we make absolutely sure that we have somewhat of a absolute guarantee that there's a

piece of property. We've talked to the landowner and we have a somewhat of a deal. And that's why uh the question about the value of the current property. It would be interesting to know does anybody have an idea what ballpark that's worth? You have would you be willing to share that? Okay. Because that's my concern is if we as long as we've got a plan in place, but I just know what the way this county is going with with houses and property and the value of that, someone will come along and say, "Well, if they'll give you three, we'll give you five because we can put 700 homes on that same amount of ground." And thank you. Thank you. [applause]

My name is Martin Quinnland. I live up in Porterville. Um, I participate in a single action shooting with a double gates gang. Um, I think this is a really good discussion and I think it from this we can move forward. Um, I certainly wouldn't take my truck, park my truck, pull the engine, sell the engine so that I could get a better engine, hoping, you know, I'll save my money and everything and eventually I'll get an engine. I think if you have the community behind you and we're interested in doing this, why do we have to zone it today? We can get an appraisal, an unofficial appraisal. We can get a working figure and we can move forward to that. We can always come back and reszone it. I think the county would be on everybody. I I think there's a lot of inter trepidation about just signing off on this and hoping for the best. I I I think there's enough interest out there on all parties that we could sit down and figure out a plan forward. Um this just, you know, I just rebuilt my house, okay? I didn't knock it down before I had a place to live. You know, I figured that out and I figured out what it would take to put it back together and everything. I think that's what we need to do.

[applause] Can I real quick in front of you?

My name is Jason R. I live in Mahogany Ridge. I'm going to the adapted needs nativity. So, I'm running out of here. I just wanted to say um I as I'm not from Morgan lived here for 8 years and there is very little public access to anything in this county. There's I don't have 160 acres to go shoot. Um I love having there's an option right there. I have a special needs daughter who walks our little HOA trail constantly. I love the idea of having a park on the other side. I think that would be incredible. And I would hope that that there we could have all sorts of access that way. Uh my house is flooded from rain coming down that ridge. Um that happened about 7 years ago in 10 minutes of rain and it flooded our whole house. And so I do have concerns about rain and all the that's for engineers to figure out, but I I've heard that there's not enough water retention options up them up the ridge. That has to be figured out. Um and I I' if I have any time left, I'd love to hear what you had to say. I'd love Can I give them my other minute?

Okay. Thank you. [clears throat] Get my notes back out. Was not expecting an encore. Um, let's see. Okay. Okay. Um, well, I did have the opportunity prior to this meeting to go through the uh staff report myself and read through it. Uh, and I do have uh some disputes with some of their findings and I'm just going to read so I can blitz through it and be considered everybody's time. So, first I dispute their very first finding that the prop proposed reszone is consistent with good planning principles because just this evening I learned that the county commissioners are hoping they'll find a developer that already just happens to own a roughly equivalent parcel that they can trade to move the rifle range to a different place. And last I checked, hope was not a good planning principle. Next, I dispute the observation that the current ride ofway leading to the search and rescue building provides an appropriate ingress and egress to the development. that road merges at a blind curve that already has regular close calls even with the current amount of traffic. The only reason it's not even more dangerous is because there isn't more traffic, which this proposal would change. Third, I strongly dispute finding number two, that the reszone is unlikely to adversely affect surrounding properties. Wow, that got way louder. Um because most are not larger than.3 acres. Not only is this sentiment contradicted in the very next page where it states that surrounding properties won't be affected much because they're already a rural residential development, but it willfully ignores that all of the adjacent properties, mine included, currently do not have backyard neighbors. And we purchased our homes knowing that there is a rifle range there and that we would not have backyard neighbors. Many of us chose our homes specifically because we do not want backyard neighbors. This concern may seem trivial to you. maybe sound like I'm, you know, sitting in my ivory tower loving my my free open backyard, but I can assure you to us, your existing constituents, this is not a trivial concern. It is a large part of our way of life and contributes greatly

to our love of where we live. And last, I dispute finding number four, that the proposed amendment is in harmony with existing land uses in the area. This is demonstrabably false. First and foremost, the existing land use in the area is a rifle range, which you are proposing eliminating in favor of housing. Second, as I mentioned in my previous point, housing in that area, however spread out, is not in harmony with why we bought our homes, nor how we use and enjoy our properties currently. Um, I should stop talking. Thank you. [applause]

My name is Terry Watt and that is my much better half. [laughter] And he's probably going to be embarrassed that I'm up here, but that's okay. I I'll get it when I get home. I think something that hasn't been addressed that needs to be addressed since we're all taxpayers is the burden to taxpayers. Um uh you Kate, thank you spoke about remediation and um Mr. Watt will speak more about this. He has personal experience with closing two other ranges and the numbers and the taxpayer burden are in the millions, literally in the millions. even if a developer were to buy that, they could potentially come back on the county and that could be a big burden to us. I think that's an unanswered question that needs to be addressed. In addition to that, um I think as been said much here tonight that there are many unanswered questions and once we move forward with the reszone, it's very very challenging to go back and I feel as though we have enough representation tonight. I know that many are at the nativity um thing, but I think I believe we have enough res representation tonight that we deserve as taxpayers and as community citizens more answers before we actually move forward with a reszone. Thank you. Thank you. [applause]

Hi, name is Milton Bureau. I've only lived here 26 years, so I don't have near the experience a lot of you have, but I know that as soon as I moved here, I started using the range. I love the range. Um, and so I have a couple of questions that I think haven't been addressed. Kind of touched on but not addressed. And I think it really needs to be because when you think about the hazardous waste, you may say, well, maybe 2 foot of lead is all that's there. Okay. So, how much did leech into the ground for the last 35 or 40 years that we've been using the range? And then what does that cost to clean it up? I mean, you're talking that 29 whatever acres plus some boundary that's actually going to get uh I would say contaminated from leeching. So, not only do you have to remove it, you've got to dispose of it. Who's going to buy it? How much is that going to cost? In my opinion, it's no less than $5 million. So, even if you get $10 million for the property, and wait, I don't have any place to move it. I know this been addressed before, but it just bothers me. I mean, we have the range. We're using it. It is what it is. Why did you build so many homes so close to it in the first place? And now you say, "Oh, man. What are we going to do?" I mean, that's kind of the cart before the horse, behind the horse, whatever you want to call it. It's not making sense. Thank you. [applause]

All right. Seth Bainbridge. I've lived here eight years, which means that I just moved here yesterday, apparently. Um, I used to work in lead mitigation for rifle ranges in Colorado for DRMS, which is the federal side of things, you're looking at a lot of money. So, any money you're going to make from, I mean, this is a rifle range that actually pays for itself. It's a government entity that pays for itself, which is inspirational, but at the same time, you're talking5 10 million testing over the next 50 years for runoff, groundwater, everything of that nature. On top of that, when we change this, if the zoning actually gets changed tomorrow, will the rifle range then shut down because it's out of zone? I guess that's that's my biggest question.

[applause]

First of all, I really am appreciative of those who have lived here and are speaking up for the rifle range. I really appreciate that. I am a lifelong citizen of Morgan. Will you state your name?

Misty Whisi. Sorry. I'm a lifelong citizen of Morgan. Um, I've watched this entire valley change. My first question, well, first let me just reiterate and um make a point that grazing has always happened behind the rifle range. That has never been something that has changed. There's always been cattle or sheep or something along those lines. It's never been something new. So, I've never been concerned about I don't think the people who own the property behind have ever been concerned about it. What I do want to know is how on earth did we allow this many homes to be built clear up next to the rifle range in the first place? Like why why did it happen? I have watched around this valley of areas where homes were permitted to be built in the county and it was in a flood zone. Like we're talking I have watched so many homes three years ago we had major snow. I watched homes have to have sub pumps like in their basements in Peterson to keep all of their water out. I have watched the council approve many places that should not have ever been approved. This is also one of those instances. So I really am concerned about the fact that every time we have concerns and every time that we speak how we feel or what is best for us as citizens, it falls on deaf ears often. It is whatever is best for the council. I don't know. I don't know if pockets are realigned. I don't know. And I'm not blaming it on everyone else like everyone here. But I'm just saying I am saying that something is shady and it needed to be changed long ago. So the cost is the biggest concern and again

the other concern is are we going to have this land purchased and ready before the current rifle range is closed? Cuz I'd hate to assume that it's going to happen but again like I said it feels like most of the time it falls on deaf ears. So I I am just asking to please take into account the citizens here and before it is closed, before our students in the high school and those who enjoy the rifle range have no place to go, make sure that they have somewhere where [snorts] the doors are already open and they are able to use it fully. Thank you. [applause] Hey Dan, great ears.

I've been uh I've been offended by the planning commission in the past, but don't let that bother you. Uh

Zane Gray, Mountain Green, [clears throat] um to the question of should this be reszoned? The answer is absolutely not. That's a step towards taking other privileges, other rights, other available opportunities away from residents. Not only the elderly, not only the adults, but the children and what they have available to them in this county where absolutely every square foot almost is privately owned. I forget I forget what else I wanted to say. [laughter]

Some good things to say. Um, [clears throat] if if there were an opportunity to say that uh the number one objective of this project is to maintain, create, maintain a wonderful shooting range with long range that will [clears throat] give our 4, our children, our adults, our family parties a place to gather and participate in shooting. And that should be the number one goal. Not looking to sell a piece of land because it brings money to the county or to the city. The number one goal would be to create and maintain a firing range. And then, oh, we have a piece of land we can sell to accomplish that. That's second. So this should not be reszoned because that opportunity starts to slip out of your fingers. It's like it's like the second amendment. You start taking away little bit and little bit of that privilege. Finally, the whole privilege is gone. [applause]

[snorts]

Good evening, Madame Chair, members of the commission, county staff, administrative manager. My name is Jeff Matthews. Um, been a resident or owned our home since 2013. So, I guess that's maybe three days ago that we moved here in comparison. Lot of great comments. Kind of took a little bit of the wind out of my sales from some of the things I was going to say. And these folks here said it better than I could have. One of the main themes of this, there's a couple of them actually. One is the order in which this is being done. If the goal is to find a new gun range and to take the existing property and redevelop it in some way, whether it's homes or a park or whatever. Of course, you've got your planning issues, your cleanup, and so forth. And that's that's huge. and you you stated very well many of the issues. So, thank you for that. If that's the goal, the proper way to go about that and in my opinion and it sounds like in the opinion of many is to first locate the alternative, right? Find the piece of land in an area where you're going to relocate. You I I I will have to take one one exception. Uh you can get this property appraised. I'm a realtor by trade. Um, it's possible to get it appraised. You You hire the appraiser. You say, "Appraise it as if it's zoned R 1 through 20." You can get an estimated value now. Of course, that's going to change in the future. Even if you reszone it now and get an appraisal, that value is going to change in the future. Probably will go up, but you don't need to reszone it. By reszoning it now, I think it sends a message perhaps to a lesser extent by this body, but also the county commission that the plan is in the works to close this and eventually to redevelop it. I think

there's a lot of mistrust by many folks in this community of our current commission. I don't mean to impugn anyone on there specifically, but I do think based on things that have happened in the past, things that have been happening ongoing that there's a level of distrust. So when they say, "No, we're not going to close this until we find another property." Commissioner McMillan, what you proposed to have that in writing, that's a good first step. Person, I commend you for that. I think that would be very wise. I think the county commission would be very wise to adopt something like that. So, it's in writing. that before you close this, you have identified another property and you've started concurrently the process of purchasing and then the development and of course using the funds from the sale earmarked specifically for that new purpose. Now, I also agree with the commenters that talked about the fact that you've allowed homes to build up around the gun range. There's probably more to this than I understand, but I'm curious why that was allowed to happen in the first place. But there's a lot of other land. Maybe it should have happened elsewhere. The fact of the matter is it's there now. I do agree with past speakers that you can do some things now to mitigate the impact of the current gun range. Maybe you put some enclosures, uh, whatever that might be. I'm not an expert on that. I I do shooting, but I'm not an expert on how you build and protect gun ranges, but I think that's possible. So my main point is that the request for a reasonzone now it's not ripe. Um it's not the right time. I think a lot of these issues need to be explored further either by this commission or by the county council or both. Maybe even in a public forum because this is a huge issue. For every person here there's probably 10 more that feel exactly the same as how some of these folks. So maybe explore this issue in a lot more detail over a longer period of

time. Come up with a plan, an improved plan, and then get some buyin from the public. I think that's very important. Um, doesn't sound like you've got much right now, and that'll have some impact in the future. So, uh, with that said, um, thank you for your time. Appreciate it and merry Christmas. [applause] Commission chair. Um, just a ask of the commission since I know that normally you close the public hearing and then I get a chance to respond but then you don't open the public hearing again. Can I make sure that either one if you want me to address the issues now I address them or two after I respond to your questions we reopen the public hearing whichever your preference.

Yes. Okay. I'm good with that. Whatever is going to make us get out of here before 10 have an opinion on that. I do you want to let her hear the rest of the comments? I guess. Yeah. I think I think respond. Well, I think to maybe Kate's point that some of these she might address some of the issues is what I think we're getting at maybe potentially. And so we have less repetition. Not even repetition, but more answers. Go ahead.

I'm Dennis Jackson. I live here in Morgan City proper. Um, I've only been here for a year, so you guys might not even consider me part of the community yet. But, um, I'm not going to hash a ton of what's already been said, but something that I haven't heard brought up is the impact that this is going to have on the county itself. As a law enforcement officer myself, I've worked with a department that had its own range and a department that doesn't have its own range. And I'll tell you, the amount of man-hour and planning and travel and all that to get equipment and stuff to a range that doesn't belong to that department is astronomical. It takes time off, me working on time off, me trying to coordinate with other agencies, other departments, other other rifle ranges to find dates, times that we can actually go up and shoot. So having that here for the sheriff's office to be able to use is one of the best benefits they have to be able to go up and use their range whenever they need to get the training they need to be able to protect all of us here in our county. Um so that's one of my biggest concerns. So not having a plan laid out to say this is where the range is going to be. It's going to be open prior to this one closing so that our law enforcement officers, our civilians, everybody can use that range the second that it's available and then we can close the other one and move on. I feel like that would be a much better plan rather than let's reszone this, let's sell it, and then let's try and find something to replace it with cuz who's who knows how long that's going to take to find that replacement. Is it going to be a year, two years, 3 years, 10 years? We don't know. we're just going off of hopes versus having a laid out plan and have that already set up and going prior to closing the current range. So, those are my thoughts that hasn't already been said. So,

thank you. [applause] Um, do I have a motion to go out of public hearing? So, maybe Kate can speak on behalf of the county and then we can go back in. So, moved. Motion by member Sessions. Second. Second by member W. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimous.

Thank you. The reason I do that is normally in commission meetings we have like the applicant gets a lot more mic time than those of you that actually have concerns. So usually what would happen is you'd voice your concerns, the applicant gets to come up and debunk everything and then you get no say after. So that's why I asked for this change in procedure. So thank you for that. Um, we did get an appraisal um on the range in its current form. It's $81,000 an acre. That's I don't know if you bought land here recently. That's nothing. Um, so yes, we have done our due diligence. We have got our appraisal at what it is currently. Um, and I hear you guys saying you don't have a plan. You don't have a plan. You don't have a plan. I have to have a checkbook in order to have a plan. I [snorts] need to know how much money I can spend in order to buy. And we're county. We're not private property. When we talk about this, when we've talked about this in commission meetings, we've been talking about this since May. We have to do it in closed session because people know, oh, if the county's interested and they offer 3 million, we can get 4 million out of it. Like, it creates a bidding war because they think we have deep pockets because it's your taxpayer dollars. That's why we have to have all real estate transactions done in close session. That's why you didn't know we got an appraisal. That's why you didn't know how much the value is worth. Part of that is the city mayor is here. We have a verbal agreement with first right of refusal to the city for the purpose of a park for this ground. No offense to the city, but I'm going to get every penny I can out of you. Like, you're the one that built all the way up to it. If you're asking how we had all this housing build up to there, here's your city mayor. Like that's how it happened. So at the end of the day, you can speak out later. So at the end of the day, the city the city is the one

that built all the way up to it. Okay. When I talked to the city manager and said, "We know you don't have a park over there. Morgan County is 98% private property. When you go down the highway and you look at all these beautiful mountains, someone owns them. It's not us. When you're looking at the trails, when your special needs daughter is on a trail that was built by an HOA, why? We don't have land. People want this trail along Old Highway. $33.4 million to build it without purchasing right away. It's like I don't have it because everyone in Morgan County is apparently a bazillionaire and their land is worth all this money. I too am a city person. I don't I'm not independently wealthy. I don't have 160 acres to shoot. I like to blow stuff up. So, I have to go to the range, but now I can't blow stuff up. So, that's the other part of it is when I talked to the city manager, he said, "Well, the neighbor parcel above it wants that parcel. So, they're going to do a land swap. So, it's going to get reszoned if it's annexed into the city for a land swap because they can serve it with water and electric. So, why would I sell it to them for $81,000 an acre for them to flip the property around and make more money off of it than we could have got as the taxpayers that invested in the rifle range in the first place? So, that's part of the backdoor politics that you don't know about. Okay? So, just putting that up there. When it comes to the idea of buying and identifying land before we do this swap, that's great. still need a budget and I can't take taxpayer dollars out of general fund to pay for land to maybe possibly reimburse the taxpayers that don't all use the rifle range for the same property. I need a budget. You got a budget when you went and bought your houses and your recreation land. I have

to have a budget, too. It's due diligence. Um, we have put so much into this rifle range, not just dirt, but our cooperative agreements with 4 extension and the range with the high school. Uh, the Boy Scouts just built us a whole bunch of um of shooting benches. I have fire issues up there. the the fire warden who's now retired and we have a new one. He tried to get the county commission to shut it down from July to the end of October just because of the fire issues up there. Cuz I don't know why y'all think you can burn your casings in that burn barrel and it won't cause a fire, but it will. So, please take your stuff with you and don't burn it in my burn barrel and cause a fire. So, that's part of the issue. Um, so the prep plan to replace my issue with that is I can't in good conscience use taxpayer dollars. That's their tax levy to buy money elsewhere just to hopefully swap it out. I have to know what my budget's going to be. Um, the downgrading of acreage. Heck no. We're not going to get downgraded acreage. That's prime development. It's got water, it's got sewer, it's got electric. It's already in a ur whether you like it or not urban spraw area high density. So it's already primed to be developed. Developable land does not exist in Morgan County because we're all mountains and you can't develop on something that's more than 6% grade. So finding land to shoot at it might have a grade. Hopefully a downhill slope and not an uphill slope, but I I don't as a shooter I don't want to keep restricting. And yes, I hear what you said, ma'am, about they've been grazing that forever. True. Sheep are still dumb and they haven't changed. You know what has changed? Rifles. They got a lot more range than they used to. That's the

issue. It's not our dumb sheep. No offense, Pences. It's the freaking guns. Like, and I love them cuz I like to blow stuff up. So, it doesn't make sense to me to keep prohibiting prohibiting prohibiting. So, I heard prohibit and suppressants. Um, I know a lot of people that shoot that should not have a firearm [snorts] because they're crazy. You're not going to get a suppressant to get that past the fed. Maybe it's after the first of the year when the law changes, but suppressants are extremely expensive and honestly, they screw how you shoot. Like, [clears throat] it really messes up your range. Um, so I would I don't like the idea of we've already limited long-range rifles. We've already shut down long-range rifles for a month. We've already shut down exploding targets. If you've ever shot an exploding target, it's awesome. I I would love to go back to that and I can't do it in the current space. Um, again with the showing interest in the bidding war, that's why we have to do stuff in closed sessions. The issue with the EPA remediation, we're already working with the EPA. Obviously, we're not going to move forward till we know what the dollar price is. Um, the this is an application to reszone. It's not an application to sell the property. We [clears throat] are reszoning it to get every penny I can out of the city of Morgan. That's really what it is. And at the end of the day, it's going to have to move. I'm not the countyy's not the one that built all that high-res up to the property. And I met this lovely gentleman um a couple weeks ago. Anyway, I got his range key and he's like, "Oh, when I bought that property and I heard the rifle range, he's like, "Oh, sound of freedom. I'm with you." However, there's kids and people and there's there's so like the amount if we hadn't got that donated BM money or that burn dirt that would have cost us a fortune. So, the reason we're asking for the reszone is so we can reappraise the

property, find out how much we can get for it, and then do our close session figuring out where we're going to move it to. I'm a thousand% sure that if seeing how many people are here, the commission would be open to a rifle range committee, which we've never had, to set up how the rifle range is going to get moved, where it's going to get moved to, what it's going to allow, what it's not going to allow, because it's just two of us out of seven that are dumb grunts that blow stuff up. Okay. So, I would maybe as a recommendation in this um we ask for a committee to to set it up um that's made up of our use people. And you guys have been great for the rifle range. I have at least 20 people a year ask me if they can go and clean it up and we can't let you because of insurance. But like the fact that you want to one says something crappy about the people that leave their trash, but also says something great about the people that were willing to invest their free time to clean it up. Um, range of firearms grazing. Got that. Um, how do we get how many homes to it? Talk to Steve Gail. Um, our number one goal should be to create. Absolutely. But I can't do it off taxpayer dollars and hence I need to know what my budget is. Um, mistrust versus taxpayer money. 1,000% get that. I've been in government my entire life. You think you've never been lied to by a local, state, federal government before. Like, that's all that I do is county administration. My job is to be the blunt, useful idiot that gets up here and is like, I'm the mean guy that's resoning cuz I want money. And but they're the ones that get to set the policy. I think the best way to dissolve the mistrust is to require or request or recommend of the planning commission that anything that happened with that property not get done without a recommending created board of the rifle range. I think I've knocked out every current issue, but like I said, I want I

want people to get back up and ask questions and maybe that you misunderstood something I said or you hate something I said, one of the two. Um, but that's that's what I've caught so far in my notes. So, thank you for the opportunity and I would love to if you would reopen it back up to public comment. Yes. Thank you, Kate. Do I have a motion to reopen our public? Motion to reop. Motion by member Watt. Second. Second by member Wilson. All in favor? I. Any opposed?

Motion carries unanimous. Come on up. three minutes.

Steve Gail. I'll I'll be speaking as Steve Gail. [laughter] I've lived there close to the rifle range for 32 years. I probably uh I don't think I've ever heard a noise complaint out of anybody. Uh, even when the members that live the residents that live up by the rifle range, I I've never heard it. Even when I used to go to the same church building they went to and the same ward. Uh, I've been a scout leader for over half of my life. We've went up there. I can't tell you how often we went up there. We had projects, service projects just like you've experienced, Kate, where we cleaned things up. We straightened things up. We had uh the CEO of uh Federal Ammunition put in updated uh clay pigeon. I'm not a shotgun guy, so I'm uh I'm one like Kate. I like to blow things up. Uh I currently have a place I can go that lets me go out to a thousand yards. That isn't one of those places. I shoot often at the Weber County range which extends me to 300 yards. Uh, and it's right in the middle of the industrial park, like right smack in the middle of it. It's covered. It's in Well, it has a wall and then partial roof. Great place to shoot. But here's what I want to say is I'm I might be the current mayor, but I wasn't the mayor when that went in. And as you know, you get a lot of rebuttal of of past decisions, but yet as a mayor and as a resident for all of these years, I've never heard a

complaint of a of a noise. U if I if I had my house up there, I wouldn't even need to to take medication. I' I'd hear that noise and I'd be right in my happy spot. [snorts] And so I'm I'm now I'm going to go back to mayor real quick is that honestly thank you for remembering we had a verbal talk about if it does move uh that we can have the first dibs to put a park up there and also would have enough room to put uh enough of a course so our our mountain bike team can train there. But the other thing I want to say real quick is uh past decisions and past things. I moved from Mountain Green, the airport just flew right over my house. And I knew that airport was there because I I grew up as a kid there. And yet people that moved in just raised havoc over the airport, the planes flying over their homes when it was it was there 50 years before So by something going up there, Rifle Range was already there and I I think the mayor because that is the city would hear all kinds of complaints. Uh and I haven't heard of one, not not one ever. And the other real quick, the other the other thing I want to say is that is county. If we put a high density zone and a developer comes in to want to put 300 homes in there or something, uh it's been mentioned that or alluded

to that we have the infrastructure. We don't have anything right there and we might not have capacity to do it especially with water and uh heaven forbid that's a sharp angle down to the sewer. U we wouldn't want to spill into the Weaver River. So, if a developer comes with the assumption, and and I've had a few tell me that they would be willing to buy property uh and move the rifle range, but but it wouldn't it they'd still have to get annexation into the city, which this current mayor, I don't know how the future mayor will be, but he's not really for that right now because of the capacity. Uh, so I'm just clearing my slate, trying not to I'll accept the blame if you want me to, but if you have a complaint and you live along that rifle range, please come see me. Uh, and then let's go shoot. Thank you, [applause] Skyler. Um, it's about my bedtime, so I'm going to share my piece, then I'll go home. Uh, regarding a checkbook or a budget, I don't I never had a checkbook or a budget. Um, when I was looking at houses, I didn't have any money. I had estimates. If I borrowed this much, or if I got this much, then I could get this house. If I borrowed this much, I could get this house. I think that should be a similar approach for the range. get [clears throat] an estimate. Oh, we can get this much out of it. Okay, then let's estimate how much we can um how much property we can get. And we said or you stated that 98% is uh private. So, if we don't have any land

and we're going to sell it to potentially get land, I I'm just hesitant to to believe it. Um, if there was an actual plan, like you said, um, I'd be more willing to believe it. But I don't, um, [clears throat] I, me and my wife have this discussion um, weekly. We feel like there's so many houses going up. It's crazy to us. Um, we want more parks. We want more recreation. And I know that's private property. Once again, probably won't happen. Uh, I [snorts] just want a lot more questions answered before we reszone this. Um, I feel like we can run off of estimates well in advance before we actually do anything. Um, last point, why I guess I don't I can't ask questions, but it's a rhetorical question. If insurance allows us to go shoot guns, but we can't go up there and use a broom to clean up the place. I don't understand that. Okay. Then maybe we can look at different insuranceances. I don't know. Um and oh, one more point. Um if we got dirt donated before for BMS, I'm sure there's build have a community with tractors and everything. I'm sure the community would come together and make it safe so bullets won't go hit a sheep, won't go into the houses. We can mitigate those issues if the community community came together, which I believe it would. Thank you. [applause]

Hi, I'm Mike Hayatt. Uh live in Mountain Green. Been here about now, I think. And u first of all, thank you for your service and your family service. appreciate it. We uh I know a lot of people come from military service back here, myself included. Um I understand the rock and the hard spot that you're in, but I think again I it's been reiterated many times that the goal should be to get a new range. I rebuke the note that you can't have a plan prior to selling the property. That doesn't make sense to me at all. like you you you can go out and find different pieces of property potentially, right? That's the problem. I think a lot of us are not understanding the fact that 98% of the county is privately owned, but all of a sudden we're going to be able to sell this property and now we're going to find more property even bigger to make it bigger, better range. So, we all need to see a plan first. And I understand there's the politics behind it as far as if the county shows interest in purchasing land that then developers going to come in, but it sounds like you're saying no, we can't even think about what properties are. We can't even show, okay, there's three or four different places we can go that could potentially get that range. The other piece that I'll say real fast is coming from government or from military service. I understand different colors of money and things like that. And I you talk about a general fund places like Wasach Peak that generate a ton of money for the county, things like that. And that was a main reason I think why we allowed Wasach Peaks to to build there. This is because of the tax revenue that we're getting from them. So, has there been any thought on how we rearrange some of that? How we place

some of that so it's not the taxpayer burden right away so that you have a purchase plan in place prior to reszoning and reselling this property? I think all those are things that should be looked at prior to coming to the vote. So, thank you. [applause] um

for the administrative manager. Kate, thank you for what you said. I really like your style. Um thank you for your service. I have a brother-in-law and uncle in the army. However, my father was Navy World War II, so go Navy. All right. All right. [laughter] My question though, just one. Um, is it possible for the county, we know, you know, that you can get an appraisal and tell the appraiser, appraise this as if it's zoned residential, such and such designation. They can come back with a number today. Can the county do that? Get an appraisal as if it's already reszoned. Get that number. You'll have that number today. You know, it's going to go up in the future rather than actually do the reszone. That was my only question.

We will answer all questions during discussion. We haven't even we haven't even built to have a discussion yet. So just we cannot answer any questions. Kate cannot not answer any questions. We're just trying to move through and then we'll discuss everything you can talk about but that talk over

and please just for the sake let's have if you've already come to the mic tonight please do not come forward again. There is going to be another time at the county commission. We will respond to your emails. We just got to move through the room full of people here. So you're up Tina Tina Kelly Green. Uh just a few thoughts on this. I I'm really not for selling the property. We're not making any more new ground and ground isn't getting cheaper. And this isn't a new idea. We explored this when I was on the county council in 2007. That was my first year. 2007 and 2008. And the costs that we would have gotten did not offset what we would have had to pay to mitigate. And so I would be really interested in hearing those that discussion later on. Um the third thing that came to mind was Kate, no disrespect, said that you can only use restricted funds to purchase property for the new gun range. And I'm I'm not sure that that's true. I know that you have created a restricted fund for the for the funds that are got in fees for the fi rifle range to go into a fund but at least in the past general fund has been used to maintain the rifle range and those are my thoughts and questions. Thank you. [applause]

[laughter]

Hey, Ernie Durant, currently living in a van down by the river. [laughter] Um, first I got to say, uh, thanks for what you do. I understand. I did I was on the city planning commission for 10 years when this whole fiasco started. Okay. And uh it's difficult because you you'd love to go back because years later you find out things that were misrepresented to you. Okay. And and though I don't think anybody here is intentionally misrepresenting, maybe I said that the wrong way, but understanding. Okay. So when that whole fiasco started, a developer came in. One of the owners already had the land. a developer came in and purchased the upper piece. And then the first thing they did because of the zoning is they went and put two sections of four Powder River panels with three sheep in to shut this the county rifle range down. And they shut it down because there was a law in the books that you can't fire a weapon within 600 feet of a domesticated animal. Okay. But they violated an ordinance because at that time once you had an animal that left the city, you couldn't have an animal back. And there had not been any animals on that property, the old Jack Factory place for at least 20 years. That fence was down. We rode dirt bikes up there. We shot our guns up there. We never had a fire up there. Okay? And and I understand the fire warden and that's his job. So he has to look out for that. But at that particular time when we worked through that process, do we have legal here? Are you legal?

Okay. Okay. So, this is where we need this is where we need some help. So, when we when we were going through that process, the landowner had certain rights. Okay. And and then they there were a few um call them what you want. And I don't want it I stunts shady shady things that were that were done that for example shut the rifle range down for I don't know three or four months. Those of you that shoot maybe you remember that. And then the state of Utah passed a law protecting rifle ranges. Now I'm not sure where that is. I tried looking it up but with my high-tech computer skills I did not find it yet. But the state of Utah passed a law that rifle range can exist in the middle of those houses. Kind of like you exist when you're flying on a plane and you're in the middle of the seat. You still get there. It can't exist unless they've changed it again. So, we need we need to look that up. But I guess part of my message here is that [snorts] what I' I'd like to bring up is that there's a lot of people that are concerned about this. This is a big issue for Morgan. You do not have to make a decision tonight, right? You can table this. You can have more discussion. I hope that's what you do because park whatever. I don't I don't want to park. I want a rifle range. And the the developer went looking for a place to put a rifle range. Those first two developments that went in because he wanted to make that phase five. And he, you know, after he got what he wanted, then he then he said that he told he told me that personally he wanted to make that phase five. One, two, three's going in now. Four's four's coming and then that would be phase five. Well, it's not a bad place for houses because it's a dry hillside, but it's our rifle range. It's our rifle range and and we don't want to let it go. So, um I'm I'm begging you, you know, I don't want to be telling you. I appreciate it's a hard

decision, but as many people as concerned, maybe we ought to have more discussion before because once you reszone, you put the nail in the coffin. So, thank you. [applause]

Not very eloquent or anything, but my name is Brody Mikum. I live in Morgan City. Just a couple of things, just uh suggestions is when you get the appraisal, get the ASIS and a hypothetical value. And what this gentleman was saying over here, we do it all the time. Uh when farmland when they go to develop that, I mean, we don't appraise it as farmland. If it's going to be residential development, we'll get it as residential development hypothetical value. And then to kind of what Chance was saying here, um no, I I like that too. And and a lot of times in our legal docs, we do this all the time, too. It's a condition. So basically, you could approve that, hey, the the zoning is going to change, but on a certain condition. So once we find land and we accepted it and this is what we want then the zoning can already flip to that. So then you would have to get all approval but then a lot of us are going to be satisfied too because if that if it remains the current zoning right now then once you have found that land and saying hey this is where we're going to put the range and it meets everyone's you know uh what we want to do then that's when the zoning changes is maybe when the the property's purchased for the new range. then you don't have to go through this whole rigma roll again. And I'm sure you're working a lot. You've you've seen a lot of those. But a lot of times we'll just do conditions. So once that conditions met, then the zoning changes. Because I I agree with Ernie. If you change it now, I I don't I don't think we'll ever have a range. Honestly, I think it's just gone. Something will happen. You guys will will move on. Other people will come in and we're going to lose its range. So, I would protect the zoning as much as I could until those, like you're saying, once those conditions are met, then it flips over automatically to the new zoning. Whatever you decide, that's all I have.

Thank you. [applause]

Hey, what's up y'all? U Cody Cardwell here, originally from Elgen, Texas. I'm a property owner now in Morgan. Uh, so in Texas, there's there's not really any public land. It's all private. You don't have any rifle ranges or anything. Unless they're privately owned, you have to pay to go use them. Uh they're going to be far away. Typically, if you're lucky, you have land, your family has land, or you know someone that has land, and you can go shoot there, you can go hunt there. Uh [sighs] you think Morgan is growing a lot like in Elgen? We're just outside of Austin and it's like it's crazy. So, I wouldn't give up what you have now. I would keep it. I would keep a rifle range if at all possible. Keep it. You have a few parks. You have a rifle range. And what else? Some sidewalks. There's really not a lot of recreation in Morgan County. Uh, one thing I love about Utah is there is a lot of public land all around us where you can go riding your dirt bikes, camping, shooting, hunting. That's great. But in this county, as we all know, it it's extremely limited as as to the the availability of of recreation. Other counties, they have like rec centers with pools. You know, you can go lift weights in there, play tennis, whatever. Unfortunately, we don't have that yet. That'd be cool to have it one day. We do have a shooting range. Let's keep it. Uh, one thing that came to mind, uh, as far as like the the the order of operations, the process of we have to sell this first and then later down the line we can look at building a new better rifle range one day. Uh, whenever you go to build a school, you don't have to sell the the schools that you have now to build a new

school. There's like fundraising events, you know, maybe bonds or something like that. Uh, looking at all the people in here, I' I've never come to any of these meetings. I've been here for 5 years. Uh, but it seems like you have the enthusiasm to do some kind of a public fundraiser, a a bond, whatever you guys call it. I don't know. I'm not in this world. I'm just visiting right now. Uh, but I think that that there'd be a lot of enthusiasm and and money donated and spent on getting a rifle range set up. You know, people said, "Well, we want long range. We want our kids to shoot there. Uh, law enforcement needs to practice." Build it. Do that first and then reszone this. Have the EPA do their thing. Clean it. Spend those millions of dollars. I know it's going to cost a lot. That That might be a super fun site up there. I don't know. Uh, keep what you got. You're lucky to have it. Thanks. [applause] Andrew McCain, a lifelong resident of Morgan County, uh, and a, uh, a resident of the North Morgan uh, Hill subdivision. Um, I I just want to echo everything that's been said today. I I think we need to slow this down. There's no reason to make a decision anytime soon. In fact, if you wait another 50 years to make this decision, that would be great. Um, I will be gone by then. But, uh, you know, a couple of when I got this letter, uh, a week ago, I I I took some time. I stood on my porch and I smelled Clark's farm. I listened to

the railroad go by. I listened to the freeway go by. I even heard constant rapid gunfire. But it wasn't from the range. It was from development around me. It was those dang air hammers going crazy. And not once did I think I need to go get the farm shut down. I need to go talk to you DOT to shut down the freeway. I need to talk to Union Pacific to shut down the railroad. I'm happy with that. I made those choices to move there. And I want to be there and I want to be by a range. I love having the range in my backyard. I 100% support it. Um, if a decision is ever made to change that, please give me more than a week's notice so I can go on vacation to a Chinese heavy metal mine where I think I'll be safer than when they tear up all that dirt there. Thank you. [applause] [clears throat]

I hate doing this. um Kobe Nielson and started. Um I hate speaking. I hate getting up in front of people, but I think this is important enough that made me come here tonight and feel like I had a had a need to do it. Kate, I am sorry that you have to deal with all this. It's not easy, but I I'm Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm glad that you have the background that you do. Um [clears throat] because some of my concerns are that there's a ton of development in Morgan County and it's brought up that there's not a lot of public land. It's all private. So we're not going to have anything that's going to expand according to the people that are here in Morgan other than new people come in and take up that additional land or whatever land is available. And we're going to lose it. We'll never get it back. The only way that we can find something like this again is to move away. We're going to lose what we have, which to me is a big deal. Um, I echo everything that people have said. I appreciate it. I appreciate you coming out and being willing to to share your your feelings and your your thoughts about it. Um, some of the things that I've noticed in the time that I've been in Morgan, I've been here about 14 years. I was born in in a different place that uh I didn't belong. Came here. I belong. Um, I don't know why I get emotional like this when I talk in front of people. I

hate it. people laugh or people yell or do something to to distract it all. Um, but I've noticed my taxes go up like crazy. I've noticed that the potholes in my street had never been filled. Um, we got chip and seal on our road this last this last year. It's gone. Um, but I pay a lot in taxes. I don't see a lot from it. Mayor, I don't know if I can talk to you about that, but uh I I don't live in the city. Dang it. All right. I'm not coming after you. Um so, Wasach Peaks goes in. I don't see any advantage of it, but I take my family and I use that gun range. Some of the the fun things about it is the way that it's set up. I can go over there Thanksgiving morning 8:00 and go and shoot. Worry about someone managing the range. I don't have to worry about if it's going to be overcrowded, if it's going to be full. If I reserve it, it's mine and I can enjoy it. [clears throat] One of my concerns is if it goes into one of these really big facilities that draws people from other counties, from other areas within Utah, what's it going to turn into? Can I go and reserve it for I forget what it is now, 20 bucks, 15 bucks? Um, am I going to be able to continue to do that? Is it going to be over full? So, I don't feel comfortable taking my kids to go and shoot, teach them how to shoot in a safe environment. I'm going have to go someplace else. I'll go up in the mountains. I'll go camping. I'll go find other areas and I'll no longer use what's ours. We're going to lose it. Um,

Mr. Watt, you're not going to like this, but if this moves forward in any way that if there's a planning committee, I propose that you lead it. I doubt there's Thank you for your time. Um, there's no one in this county that in this country that know more that knows more about gun ranges and the facilities like that than Randy Watt. Leverage him, use him. It'll be to everyone's advantage if we do it. [applause]

[clears throat]

under 30 seconds. As much as I love all of you, [laughter] guys do. Honestly, I I really do appreciate it. But what I have read, I don't know the ins and outs of it, but the range over the years has had $80,000 in grant money from the NRA from Utah DWR and the Pitman Robertson range grant programs. I'd like to know where that is because it promised or had a guarantee that the range was to remain open to the public uh for I don't know how [snorts] long. So, I'd really like that answered. That's it. Thank you.

Thank you. Seeing no additional public comment and wants to take hers. Okay. Motion to go out of public hearing. Thank you. Motion by member Sessions. Second. Second by member Watt. All in favor? I any motion carries unanimous.

You do you want to come back? You got it.

Uh noise complaint. There have been noise complaints. Hence, we had to ban exploding targets. So, that was before my time. I don't know. But clearly that happened. Otherwise, I could blow stuff up. Um, I'd like to know where this 1,00 yard range is and if it's open to the public. You can get with me after that. Um, this is in the city's annexation plan. Um, I have my note for the cost estimate and for the grant restrictions. I will check on that. Um, as far as um the insurance on cleaning it up, it's because normally when we clean it up, we clean burn. And since people leave live casings, um, that's the safety hazard and we don't we don't broom rifle ranges, we burn them. That's why our insurance won't let us do that. um why we can't have a plan and why and uh yes Tina I apologize that that was a misspeak the money from this would be so when so I came here in 24 as your county manager in FY25 budget which was my first budget here we split out the rifle range and the airport so they're their own funds so that any money generated by those stay in that department and get reinvested and don't just roll back into the general fund. Yes, we can use general fund money to support the rifle range, to support the airport. However, that was not the intent to do so. And those of you that are thinking like, oh well, we'll just raise taxes or do a bond. Your library passed by one vote. One vote is how the library bond passed. That was 20 years ago. Like, no one wants a bond. Um, why are your taxes so high? Please look to your school district because the bulk of that goes

to them. Does not come to the county. Um WPR, where is all that tax incentive? That is not how taxes work. Um when you pass a tax levy, you're passing a dollar amount. So the last time we did a tax increase for the county, let's say that generated $5 million. We cannot generate above $5 million. So, as the appraised value of the county goes up, like these $42 million homes in WPR go on our tax books, we have to roll the rate back to stay at the $5 million. What you're seeing as an advantage to WPR is that your tax rates, what you're physically paying, are going down because we're taxing WPR. um the at risk um the appraisal part of so the appraisal company is actually the one that recommended that we go through this process because they said you could get triple what it is if it was not an atrisisk purchase if a developer were to buy this and it already had the designation of um [clears throat] what our 120 or what we're proposing today it's not a risk to them to purchase this and only be able to put one residential unit on it. So, it is at their recommendation that we [clears throat] do this and we are having them speck it out, but at the end of the day, it would still be an at risk appraisal. Um, so I kind of don't want to spend five grand to find out that it's still at risk. Um, I hear what you're saying that uh it can exist. the middle airport seat comment. It doesn't mean it's should. Like science is really good at, you know, could have, not shoulda. And if they could, they'd make cancer airborne and

contagious. Just because it's science and they can, right? Like, doesn't mean it should be. We can't help the fact that there's residents all the way up to it. And inevitably, the property directly above it is already trying to develop. So, it's not going to be shooting at dumb sheep. It's going to be shooting at people's houses, and that's going to add more restrictions to us um on what we can and cannot blow up. Um again, this is an application to change the zoning. It's not an application to sell the property. I do see how a billion of you understand that they are synonymous and one goes with the other. Um but it is not an application to sell. It is an application to reszone so that we can see what we get out of it. If we see what we get out of it with the reszone and then we get the EPA numbers back. Yeah, I'm not dipping into general fund to remediate something for $5 million if I'm getting $5 million for the property. [laughter] We are struggle busing as a county for public space. And like I said, 97.6% of the county is private property. So, we're already working with Mountain Green Sewer Improvement District to add on to Ken Smith Park. We're trying to find every opportunity possible to add trails and mountain biking. Why wouldn't I add to a rifle range? I don't bike. I don't run, but I like to blow stuff up. So, it is not our intent, but I hear what you're saying with intent. There's intent, and there's what actually happens. It is not the intent of the county to get rid of the rifle range. It is the intent of the county to move the rifle range where there's less restrictions and it's not in an annexation plan of any city. Can I guarantee that if that happens, the land will be identified, it'll be burned, it'll be set up, all of that will happen synonymous with the sale.

No, I'm not going to lie to you about that. It's not our intention. But until I know how the cards fly and what money we can get out of the property, which I is a heck of a lot more than $81,000 an acre, then that's what our ask is today. So, if for whatever reason, just letting you know for public record, if um the planning commission today makes a recommendation and does not table or postpone, this will go before the county commission in a second public hearing on January 6th at 5 or at 6:00 p.m. So, put that in your calendar. But that's only if they make a recommendation to move forward today with either a negative recommendation or a positive recommendation. Then it goes to the county commission and that'll be on the January 6th county commission meeting. Public hearings are at 6 PM. Any questions for me, commission? Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Kate.

Are we open for discussion? Yeah.

I beg your indulgence. Um, you've suffered suffered through a lot. Uh, I need to preface this with a little bit of background. Randy Watt, 36 years of the Aen Police Department, last four as chief, 34 years with the Utah Army National Guard, retired as a colonel commanding the 19 special forces group. Um, and I own a company, SRW Incorporated, that literally travels the world training military and police special operations units and working on ranges. Um, that's how I've made my whole life and my career. I've participated in in the design of ranges. Um, I know uh what's coming. In fact, I'm I'm one of the three people who designed the Weber County Sports Shooting Complex, worked with Action Targets and designed that when it was built by the original owners, the Swanson Family Foundation, who were who did that in behalf of law enforcement there. Most importantly, I've been involved in the closure of ranges. I'm a r I'm a range master at gunsite Paul, Arizona, the famed gun site. Um, [clears throat] we manage 27 ranges on 3,200 acres and I'm there 8 to 10 weeks out of the year managing facilities and running courses. We're constantly dealing with the things that are being here. So, I beg your indulgence. I'd like to present an example to you because it's similar to the Morgan County range, although it's quite smaller. And it's the former Ogden Police Range located on the hillside to the east, the Elmani Golf Course. That range was started in the 1950s, long before the risks and dangers of lead had been identified and that range was in continual use by us into the 2000s. In 2004 as an assistant police of uh chief of police and due to encroachment of housing development near the range with subsequent noise complaints I was asked to study closing the range. Keep in mind the whole range in the lead impact area meaning where the bullets landed in the hillside are about

onetenth the size of the Morgan County range. [snorts] And um Andrew will remember Andrew being in law enforcement. Um, the Environmental Protection Agency is responsible for the inspection and closure of ranges as well as ensuring the mitigation of lead contamination to below specified risk levels. [snorts] They don't do it. They oversee it and ensure that it occurs and they certainly don't pay for it. Um, the range owner has under the concordant regulations cradle to grave responsibility and bears the cost of cleanup unless they can get another party to assume responsibility. in some cases may be a developer. As part of this study to close the range, I worked with a member directly with a member of the EPA to understand all of our city response requirements. If we close the range, the EPA would bring in a contracted hazmat team to take ground and water runoff readings both on the actual range and certain distances away from the range based on where runoff water travels. Okay. We would be responsible for paying for the team and then for contracting with a hazmat cleanup excavation company who would excavate all the areas where readings were above the legal limits. The excavated dirt would be sealed in drums and transported to one of then four landfills in US approved to store lead contaminated dirt. Excavating would continue until all readings were below the risk levels. I think you get an understanding the cost. [snorts] The Augen city engineers office assisted by providing estimated costs based on amounts of dirt reasonably expected to be excavated, sealed, and transported. The best estimate in 2004 for a range substantially smaller than the Morgan range was between 1.8 and $2.4 million. I was asked by city officials if land developers would be willing to cover the cost. So I reached out to some friendly land developers and I ran the scenario by them. They said no. They would not be interested in developing land until the city had resolved the lead issue. Now it may be different here. I get that. [snorts] But a good part of their

reasoning was that if the future if future lead issues arose, particularly those related to a question of someone's health, it would put [snorts] the developer on the hook and make them a potential party to litigation. Another key point, and this is a very key point, was that just stopping the use of the range did not solve our problem. While the noise complaints would stop, the closure of the range would result in the starting of a clock by the EPA. The EPA would then consider if if the range was not used for continuous 365 days, the EPA would then consider the range closed and that would trigger the same mandated cleanup and and the resulting costs due to lead mitigation. As a result, to this day, and even though the law enforcement range at the Weber County Spark Shooting Complex is OPD's primary training, twice per year, OPD conducts a training event where some officers go up to the old range and fire some rounds, thus keeping the range open in accordance with the EPA regulations and mitigating the need to clear them. Now, granted, my experience with this issue is 20 and information 23 years old. However, a chat GPT query, the copy of which I provided some county personnel yesterday, indicates the majority of what I've said is still true and therefore directly pertains the issue of the reszoning of this property andor a simple closure of the range [snorts] as a result of what I've just said is my opinion that changing the zoning for the range begins the process of putting the county and I've known Chance since he was a teenager and and he's he's absolutely correct. the best interest of the county, but I'm going to add one word, the county taxpayers. Okay? The best interests of the county taxpayers of which I'm one. Okay? Zoning begins this process of putting the county, me, the taxpayers, including me, on the hook for what is likely to be a several million dollar debacle. I suppose the county could tempt to pass

the costs on developers, and maybe there are some that are more willing than they were in in Ogden in 2004. And there may also be as there were then a few limited federal grants in the form of land recovery and um waste mitigation grants but those would require significant research and application if they still exist. So because of these risks and more importantly the known and the uncertainties of the true effects of zone proposal own change proposal most importantly the potential financial impact the county's taxpayers. I cannot in good conscience agree to this zoning change. And here's another piece of that. You know, having been an executive at a number of levels, we do our homework first. We don't make changes. We do we commission studies, right? We do strategic planning. We do a number of things necessary so we know all the facts and can make informed decisions. I think we're way ahead of the proc in the this proper process. And that's why and given the risk for the impact on taxpayers, I just don't think it's a good thing at this time. And lastly, I believe and I'm prepared to make a motion and include this language. I believe that the reason may violate the spirit if not the intent of a land use development management act and specific sections that I will name at that time if we move forward with a motion. Thank you.

Thanks, Andy. [applause] I I have a question for you, Randy. If if they wanted to improve it, I I look at these gun shops that are down late in Ogden Salt Lake. They're just a building. I'm sure they're reinforced inside. Is that a feasible thing to do up there? Do you have to go in and remediate let you build more up there? How does that work? Money is always involved, but there are many ways to mitigate the existing problems that exist on that range and make it a very usable range facility. Thank you.

So Randy, just to clarify, when you got these numbers, these were from 2004. At the time, the EPA was going to be 1.8 to 2. my own personal experience. You're you're end of one, but it was and things may be different now. But not when it comes to lead mitigation.

Question for I don't know where there's Kate. Um would and this is just a dumb I don't know EPA standards question and I'll be the first one to that. mitigation would be the same whether this is a park or this is houses from an EPA standpoint if we were shutting down a range. Is that correct? I would think it would be more if it was a park. Okay. So, even more money pro maybe potentially. Well, if it's a we had I don't know. The reason I say that is I a previous county in Utah, it used to be a um

a racetrack and the requirements for remediation for the racetrack and like all the metal parts is completely different versus it if we had turned it into a park. So it is redundant because we're going to remediate it to the best if we sell it to the best use possible. But yeah, it I would think it would have a lot more clean up and clean fill that would be needed if it was a park for children. Children. Yeah. I was just curious if you knew. Thank you. Yeah.

I guess I got a question, Randy. In the spirit of being more well informed, what what sort of issues may we have with you mentioned potential runoff and things of that sort with remediation? Are we at risk at this point with that being on a hillside?

You're not at risk right now because it's an existing range and it's let me clarify a point. So when these regulations came into play, they grandfathered existing ranges that had been just like Ogden was before. This is you're going to run into with a new range, okay? is you're grandfathered on on regulations that if you were to build a range today, you have to meet before you open the range. There are whole new sets of regulations in building new ranges about lead uh trapping, lead disposal, lead. Um, years ago, we used to have at the old OPD range I was talking about, we used to have Boy Scouts come up and they collect the lead and they melt the lead and they'd sell the lead so they could make money for their packs until these regulations came into play and put all the um all the hazardous material handling, all the personal protection. They had to have filtered masks. They had to have hazmat suits. They had to have so and um there were there was a time, you know, 20 25 years ago in managed ranges where we would could gather lead and sell it. Um now now we have to pay companies to take it away because it's hazardous material can only be spaced somewhere. These are some of the issues that as we deal with this thing, these are too many unknowns to go down this road. Even start this process with a reason my opinion. I'm going to challenge that a little bit. I mean, I I do know that rifle ranges are grandfathered in for nuisance and things like that, but I I need to research a little more, but if my legal gut tells me is if there's lead runoff to joining property and it injures people, we are on the hook. I understand.

I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't I think that's in fact at the at the Ogden range, we ended up having to put a the engineers did. We ended up having to put a rain out a a runoff catch basin that uh and it cost us a bunch of money catch basin because at certain times of year with certain amounts of rain it would change the course of the runoff and we had to be able to catch that runoff and the water had to move in such a way that the lead particles got trapped in the I'm sorry I wasn't saying there's a grandfather. That's what I was worried. So even right now we could be sued if there is lead running off. Absolutely. And hurt you.

And this is this is my concern. I'm not ne necessarily a proponent of the reszone, but my concern is if we stick our hands in the sand and just say, "Well, we have one. If we just how long do we have it?" I'm concerned, and you would know better, me, insurance issues, runoff mitigation, things of that sorts. Are we at risk with how it currently sits having it shut down and then being going, "Well, oh crap." Yes. Every range is at risk.

And what in your opinion, what are those risks? I I I would have I use that range a lot, but you would have to get an engineer in to say that you'd have to technical experts to come in. You you should we should be getting there's a the EPA produces a whole handbook on ranges, a guide, they call it a guide book, and that guide book should be driving some of how we're thinking because it lays out the specifics of of life. I guess that's my concern being one of the younger members in this room at this point. Having a every sibling of mine lives in this county. Majority of my family, my kids are here and intent of being here forever is to sit back and maybe the green zone isn't the right thing. However, if we don't if we just vote it down, say no, and I'm not saying vote it approve it tonight, but if we don't proactively make an effort to find these things out,

at what point because of the extended issues that we have or we just out one and I believe because I know that Leave was just shut down. Yes. And there's how many others? This and this is a concern I had as I had a conversation with somebody is we know one rifle range just in the last few months Le K was shut down. I don't know all the reasoning behind it. I will fully admit I'm ignorant to that. However, are we putting ourselves in a position if we're not looking forward if we just say well we got one today. Had a lot of things today that are no longer here.

And and I I believe I wholeheartedly support exactly what you're saying. Rezone is premature. This is information we we should have answers on so we can make informed decisions even about a reason. Jeremy, can you um answer whether the county would be prevented if it's reszoned from operating the rifle range whether it's in this zone or that zone because all it would change is the entitlements, correct, to the property [clears throat] make adjustments to. I think the county, it's my understanding that the county could still operate it even if it's reszoned. That's all zoning is not not what it currently facilitates.

Use could continue under new zoning. Should the use be abandoned for longer than 6 months, then it would be a non-conforming status to keep that going and that's an issue too. But it is non-conforming as we speak because it's MU160 requires 160 acres due to size. If the county wanted to discontinue the rifle range and do uh a cabin, that wouldn't be possible. Not under the current non-conforming status.

Um maybe a question for Jeremy, maybe a question for Kate. So, we have not broached the EPA at all to even think about a number. I I I keep hearing the EPA and these numbers or figures. Do we kind of even have an estimate of what this would look like because that will obviously hurt profit are in the con are in contact with EPA and looking at regardless of this if we sell it or whatever we need to know what our risks are just like a landfill. Um, so I'm already in contact with EPA, but not in the capacity of, hey, how much would it cost to remediate this because at the end of the day, I'm not it's we're not guaranteed to sell it, but I am guaranteed that it's a county asset and I have to maintain it as such and make sure that it's not causing liability. Um, but no, I don't have a a cost estimate on that. The reason we didn't really speak to that is because again, trying to separate the two. It's an application for reszone, not an application to sell. And so that

Yeah, understood. Thank you. Can I clarify one more thing? When I I advised, you know, you can make a recommendation regarding whatever. I I mean, I don't think it can be a stipulation for the reszone. I think it would end up having to be a contract or a separate ordinance that the county commission enters into to abide by if they listen to our recommendations or would a resolution be another vehicle that we could yes make the suggestion that

yes it'd have to be a separate from the reszone but that's absolutely achievable under some sort of vehicle I do think regardless of how this ends up. I think a range committee is a good idea considering we have one for the airport and trail all these different committees right in our county and there's so many passionate people here and again thank you for coming. Our meetings are normally pretty empty so this has been a nice treat. Um so I do think that regardless of how we recommend this or what we do I think that's a great idea. Um, and appoint you member Watt. [laughter] Are you looking for emotion?

No, no, no. I'm just saying I I love that your enthusiasm and your history. Full disclosure, I've never shot a gun. Well, actually, I have a group in Idaho, but it hurt. So, um, I'm I'm not a I'm a vegetarian. Don't come at me. But, um, I love the discussion and I'm very pro keeping public land public. Um, and I recognize that there's it's not an easy, you know, situation we're in here. I'd like to address density was brought up of the R120. That's halfacre zoning. That's two units per acre. Comments were made that it was high density or 120 units were going in there. This is very low density. 20 thou the the 20 is the 20,000 square foot lots. So, it's almost two and a half times the size of the the lots that are adjacent to it.

Yeah, I did the math. It's 64 lots max, but you won't get that because you'll have infrastructure. You'll have roads and where the houses can sit. So, and parks

and and parks. So I I do there was a couple comments about hundreds of houses and I'm with member sessions that that would be the maximum there which is not realistic with infrastructure. So 64 lots. Just looking for my notes. It's just interesting to me every time we talk a reszone when it's a private piece of property, they come in for a reason, understanding that the intent is to increase value to it for this same reason. Like I said, I'm not saying I'm for sure for it or against it, but I've got some concerns in just to just outright deny it. Does it just go away and we once again put our heads in the sand a little bit is is my concern to it. I'm not sure if we go down the route of denial, how do we keep moving forward?

How do we put a pin in this and and make sure that it stays as a current concern? Like I said, we just wait until it gets shut down. And and the other concern I have Kate is kind of for your question being insurance and shutdown and things like that or insurance rates continuing to climb. Does it be what is the sits? No, the insurance issue is for the cleanup, not the cleanup EPA cleanup of like No. So since we're I can't go to Farm Bureau like we're a county, so we have we use the Utah County indemnity pool for insurance. So we don't have a um continuing increasing liability as far as insurance goes. Not that I'm aware of. Um

but to answer I think kind of your concern question. So what they're saying is if they if they deny it with all these conditions or if they approve it with all these conditions, planning commissions uh like is done is done for this reason and they no longer whatever they put in that recommendation is what goes before the commission. Commission makes the final decision. You still have the option to I don't always get the word wrong. Is it table or postpone? Are you referring to postpone? Postpone.

So you can postpone it to another meeting to the next planning commission meeting and ask me the applicant to address more issues by two pages of notes and I'm happy to do that. So, if that's if that's what you're asking is where's the happy medium where we still have our our finger in the pie, but at the end of the day, we're not just passing this off to the commission who are at the end of the day the ones asking for the reason to pass just to pass the buck on to them with a outright denial. Sure, we wash our hands of it and now you can't yell at me anymore, right? Yeah, but you have that's the that's the easy answer to just that's a copout. I I hear that's why I'm informing you you have that other option.

Hearing the concerns tonight, I think to just do that is is somewhat of a copout. It goes to the county commission, I know, and they can even choose to approve it at that point. However, I think the process in the vehicle is we present a motion, we discuss that motion, we amend that motion if we need to make a motion and that's what we base our recommendation upon. The process exists. So, and or you kill the motion and we move to another motion. You understand that's the process and but I do want to clarify one thing for from legal You're my favorite person tonight. Um, if we deny this one, then this specific one can't come back up for two years.

That's correct. That's correct. Not us. But what we can if the county do it go straight to the county if the county denies it. If the county denies That's I'm sorry. That's what I meant. If the county commission denies it, then it's not coming back for two years, which is

the time that studies and all kinds of other things can be incorporated and done. Yes. Okay. And just to keep in mind the role of the planning commission as a reviewing body to you're spending so much more time than the county commission could spend in a meeting. Your their agendas are longer and contain a lot more budgetary and other governmental actions. Um and so the commission could best fulfill its role by immortalizing in tonight's meeting and it'll go into the minutes and the recommendation going to the county commission your concerns. That is the role of the planning commission. Make your recommendation um and it will go to the to that body um either by continuance and then coming back here all over again. Um but it will go to the county commission ultimately. Um, I'm not sure how much time needs to be spent on this by this body. I think a lot of really great points have have come up and and you could put together a a motion that represents the feelings of the commission and the feelings of the public to then go to the to the county commission who will ultimately make them a decision.

I also believe that if the applicant wants to postpone, they they can that could come from them as well as well. Um, in addition, you guys can list out all the things that you want the applicant to do before it goes to the county commission with whatever recommendation you do. So, you can make your list of questions. Does the applicant have have the desire to do that? I don't think so,

Kate. [laughter] Um, [snorts] but I'm slow. Um, so talking to one of my commissioners, um, as the applicant, we would like to request a postponement, but in the next meeting, we would like another public hearing. I know that's not standard, but we request an additional public hearing at that postponed meeting, but we would still like I have my notes, but I would still love if you could put on the record anything you want addressed. Love it.

Okay. And question for you. Maybe this is what Chance was getting at. Maybe not. I was just listening to your back and forth. I think maybe what he was asking, maybe I'm wrong, is like how imminent is this going to shut down if we don't We're not shutting it down. There's zero shutting it down or the risk rather because he was asking about insurance and different things. Zero. So, we were just trying to stay ahead of the ball here knowing that this is not a feasible long-term solution for the county. Could you pick a date for which you would like this postponed so we do not have to renotice? Notice 15th of our first meeting. Sounds lovely. February 15th. And so that everybody in the audience can make sure the Packers aren't playing. Oh,

wait a minute. It'd be January 8th. The first is a Thursday, so it' be January 8th. Oops. There are several legislative items on that meeting. Okay. That would be a meeting full of public. So the 22nd, I believe. So you're about to vote on the calendar tonight. It's in your packet. Did you is is there a is there a limit on how far out you can put this because if we're going to have discussions and look at getting answers particularly from like federal government agencies and things more time might be better than less time.

Um again I want to remind the planning commission of its role to just have a public hearing put together recommendations and then move forward to with the recommendation to the to the county commission. And I think a lot of these things will sort themselves out. Well, the applicant's requesting postponement, right? Right. So, we're I'm asking what date within reason, I suppose. Perfect. Love it. Lovely. Date certain. Love it. And we will February 12th.

Yep. February 12th public hearing. We will need a motion, but as of now, the applicant is requesting this be postponed to February 12th, that's a Thursday, 2026. It will be at 6:30 p.m. in this room. and we'll have another public hearing. Okay. Snaps for the record. I move we postpone the Morgan County reszone to our February 12th, 2026 meeting and to hold it with a public hearing.

Second. Motion by member Sessions, second by member W. All in favor? I. Any opposed. Motion carries unanimous. And maybe Jeremy, if you want for the I think it was Cameron that was asking about how to know these meetings are coming to maybe explain the public meeting notice side on the state where you can get an email of the agendas as soon as they're posted. I'm going to use the computer to show that.

Thank you. So staff has a list of requirements that we need to meet in order to uh have a public meeting and hold a public hearing. If I can do this too. Oh, good. Um what um member sessions is talking about is you could Google Utah Oops. Utah public notice. And the first hit will take you to the state portal for public notice. And as you can see, there's uh public notices happening all over the state, Salt Lake for the most part. Um, but you can select the type of government. In this case, you'd want to select county. Then we're going to go in alphabetical order order to find Morgan County. And there's more than a dozen or so boards there. about though. If you wanted to hear and and get sure notice that uh an item that you're interested in is going to a planning commission meeting, you can click this and then it'll ask you um to create an account and and put in an email address and then and then you're notified by email of these meetings and the items in that meeting. [clears throat]

It's utah.govpmn gov/pmn for public meeting notice I believe. Yeah.

Thank you. Any questions for business from staff? business questions for us tonight for the calendar, Madam Chair, for 2026 meetings.

Yes. Do we need a motion for this? Yes. Yes. Do you have a motion to approve our 2026 calendar? So moved. Motion by member Sessions. Second. Second by member McMillan. All in favor? I I

any opposed? Motion carries unanimous. Any questions for staff? Do you have a motion for the approval of our November 13th minutes. So moved. Motion by member McMillan. A second. Second by member Wilson. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimous. Motion to adjourn. Motion by member Sessions.

Second. Second by member W. All in favor? Hi.