Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Randy had a pizza. Was it a pepperoni?

Oh, I put that pizza upside down. Bacon ranch.

Bacon ranch?

Pepperoni? Pepperoni? Okay, this one's yours.

Did you have a ranch?

I know well now you have like two or three meals so

Just thinking.

I'll take one.

Two. Oh, yeah. You're going to do it. No bread. That's going to be fun.

Thank you.

I did in fact I got a notice but I didn't read it let me

No, no, no. No, the fire. The fire.

The rain. Do you know, Tina? I just got an update. Let me. On the fire. The rain had to be good. Good.

And some of the...

the people are allowed to go back I don't know okay okay it showed up on the county

so I thought he had but then he he was adamant that he did not we don't know who put it on the agenda it's not on there now So I don't know. So you just heard that he was Other than d9

That was a load of fun.

Sandbags. Sandpacking.

Yep. Do it in Gulf?

Are we going to be in County? That's fine.

Yeah.

Hey, you would have been impressed.

Yes, being that we burnt over 15,000 six-meter acres and nothing.

Dust, dust.

Yes. Are we live?

Yes. Oh, man.

Yeah.

You what? building sandbags one thing it's picking them up they're they're all positioned where

Thank you, Jana. Thanks, Kate. I called you Jana.

See you, sisters. Can I turn on

Turn on your mics. Who's going to take the lead?

Can I just talk a little bit before?

Sure.

and i know that we'll be uh i know that we we're gonna be talking about the connex boxes for the most part but a little bit before um i think we have an amazing team I love the collaboration. I think we're all doing absolutely amazing. If there's anything that anybody thinks that we might be able to do better, please feel free to talk amongst yourselves or bring it up to us individually. But we are trying to improve on the camaraderie and the teamwork and everything else. We do want people to feel valued. That's our customers, the public, for all of us, the employees and you as the planning commission. So please feel free to just whenever you need to talk about something, please feel free to ask questions. That way you feel like you can be as informed as possible before any meeting, during the meetings, whatever. i know you got special rules that you have to go by but it doesn't mean you can't talk so i don't i don't i don't want to catch you mid vitamin fry but i do know that part of the connex boxes why we wanted to be able to talk about them was to We know that the state came in and said that they are allowed to be used as storage containers. That's something no different, I mean, no different than a shed. That is different than what has been in Morton County in the past. We felt like this ordinance did need to be made. And correct me if I'm wrong, Janet, but even if it is currently, even if a convex box is currently on somebody's property, they would still have to meet any of the or are they grandfathered under under no code for setbacks and yeah and all that as far as anything compliant as well as the only thing that they would be mainly required is their aesthetics their looks that is the one thing i will not be able to enforce i've got it well documented i haven't really worried about the agricultural ones but i just went i checked my list there's 18 in residential just so you know three of those are currently under a building permit they can keep their product you know for the contractors and that they can keep their supplies in those hot ice boxes legally with the building permit those are not included in my 18 minutes so to me this everyone here we don't want them in front yards when i say front yards i'm in violation of setbacks and we don't want them being a nuisance to surrounding neighbors i think that's really what it comes down to so thanks for your participation in it tonight really it's going to be up to kent to be able to make the discussions so

Well, maybe I can ask Janet this. Right now, you can have accessory structures in the front as long as it meets a 30-foot front setback. Can we, with these, say, no, they have to be in the rear yard? Or can we not distinguish, separate these out from a regular setback?

my gut says we can i mean like my gut says that we can also say hey they need to be a uniform color and painted a nice color and and like gotta be like five feet away from other things and those kind of things like i think we can we can say they can need to be behind the house well in resident yes with that i said it's it's going to be difficult to

It doesn't mean I can't go up to somebody that might have some graffiti on the side of it and talk to them. And just talk to them about the nuisance value with their neighbors and things like that. Be willing to comply. I don't think we'll necessarily have an issue.

Especially if we have it in the code. um one thing i'm going to mention is i pulled up the current state code and the size changed as of july 1st and instead of under 200 square feet it's 350 now oh wow as of july 1st so you don't need a building permit if it's under 350. correct except it's human except if you're you know, doing utilities or putting them together, things like that, yeah. There's always gonna be some exceptions.

Is that for all accessory?

Is that?

No, it's just a conics box. Just conics? Yeah, it's an update to the IRC and I can read it. It's sub six. IRC section 105.2, a new exception is added. 11, grade level non-connected conics boxes, less than 350 square feet used for storage only. So there's a few qualifier things that you need to make the exception for a building permit.

So an eight by 40. Can you make me do math in my head?

Yeah, you got, yeah, standards are 20 and 40.

And then you got those new

Do we need to put that information in our code or we just defer to state as far as the building permit?

I think that we should have it in our code and then refer to the state statute because they'll amend it.

And so that we're always compliant with it.

So you got that? I would just turn it, it doesn't matter. Am I just in a feedback area?

So can't maybe put in that reference to the state code as far as the square footage and then the other requirements to fit it.

But with that, I wouldn't want to get confused with, just because you don't have a building permit, you can't, through our ordinance, determine what is allowed as far as location, number, appearance, those kind of things.

So you require a land use permit? Yes. Does that need to be stated in here, or is that? I think it should be. Okay. I brought up to Kent before the meeting in C, at this residential, and it goes to agriculture, but we do have rural residential. And so to include that zone in with agriculture. Those are the one, RR1 and RR5 and 10.

So what I was kind of wondering is if we don't wanna add a use table or add a line for Connex boxes and the use tables. Because I'm guessing not every commercial zone you're gonna want them, like town center, those kind of things. Okay.

This is only temporary storage, right?

It's storage only, yeah. And I do think that we want a pretty decent definition section and expand the definition for the portable storage containers and make sure that we're specifically addressing this is storage only and people can't live in them or work out of them. Okay.

like gardening even like any more than passing through our craft yes that's what i think garden shed so you can't under this you can't in a residential zone you can't just put one in your backyard to use permanently as a shed or shop or something that's sweet this is written that's the way this is written now i think there has to be some exceptions for temporary storage like well there is there is for temporary storage in here but there is no allowance for somebody who just wants to put it in the backyard in lieu of a tough is there a reason what's the reason for that like a lot of people do it yes some developments um well ccnrs might not allow them that's

We don't care.

That's not our determination.

Our determination is that we would allow them wherever they be.

I look at it. You lost me there.

I think that we should allow them. And if somebody wants to not allow them, that they put that in their own restrictions.

I'm on that same page too. So how did we get here?

Yes.

Can I interpret this as it's allowed storage containers in, like the agricultural, we were just including the residential. Yep.

It just needs to be, the requirements have proposed three, under D3, you're located in all setbacks for accessory structures.

In the Ag Zone?

Yeah, that's how it's currently written. with these agricultural tools.

Okay. His question is... Why are we limiting people's ability to do it in other places?

I would recommend, my one thought regarding that is you don't want a big 40-foot conics box.

If you have an 8,000-square-foot lot and you put, you know, there may be some appropriate size things on here that you might not even be able to get it in there if you have your setback and setback from the primary dwelling or the primary structure or whatever. generally would like to start on the other side and say hey you can do what you want on your property unless there's a reason why you shouldn't be able to do what you want on your property instead of hey prove to me that you should be able I just I would like to start from the other side and then maybe pair this back and say well why is it that we won't allow it here why wouldn't we want to allow this and let people just do what they want on their property unless there's a reason not

so that's why i recommend i think we should start with the use tables and figure out where you guys want them or any places where you think should not be here or should be here but with detailed limits or you know you gotta paint it i just think people fight for

I'm the president of all of our HOAs, and I know people fight to not. I mean, there are people that really love the HOA. They want that control. They want to know the uniformity. But there's a lot of people out there that say, I don't ever want to live in an HOA. And I don't want HOA-like things creeping into, especially a county ordinance.

To be honest, there are a lot of communities that regulated for size of lots and different things like that because of some of the things that were mentioned. If we have to do it, that's .

These kinds of things.

Recommendations.

These kinds of things come about because of the outliers. I'm in an HOA and 80% of the people are in a really good situation, 10% of the people are a royal pain but their place is gorgeous. And then there's another 10% that have turned it into hillbilly heaven and that's what we're trying to deal with because that creates the nuisance in the minds of us. So how do you allow personal individual freedom on property? I'm a big guy on that. Without my neighbor turning my lot into where all the flies gather because of what he does on his. That's the problem. So what is the intent here is to stop that extreme outlier, I'm thinking. So maybe the use process is the way to go.

i'm sure we're not the first ones to try to skin this cat so there's got to be a zillion of these out there that are well considered or you know that we can as far as the table goes and the table including the size of the lot and what's allowed on that lot and it's a lot easier just to steal somebody else's hard work

and then modify it a little bit so 100 when i first looked at this a year ago i pulled some and i think because the state law is fairly new that people haven't caught up so the bulk of the ones i found a year ago were two pages or a page and really not much so i can i can run another search for county stuff other counties and see what they have but yeah

in cities you know and that's mostly is what i found where cities have gotten it done yeah i would think that the counties would lag just because more and more freedom i mean there's a reason why you live in the county and not a city and it's going to have bigger impact in the city yes you have a lot more small lots and people yeah seeing it I don't think we want a bunch of eyesores, and I don't think we want somebody's yard side to side, you know. I agree, but we need to just identify what those are without being too heavy handed on everybody else.

Spot on. There's always another nut.

Do you notice he keeps pointing at me? The hillbilly.

It's an accurate thing.

I would have cars all over my lawn if I could. And badgers. And badgers. I want a pet badger now so bad. A what?

Last week we had foxes. You were on that post.

Sorry. So I like the idea of the temporary use in the front yard or something like that where it's limited and people, you know, grandma dies or whatever and you put the dumpster in the front yard and you just haul out all that crap she's been storing for generations. Whatever. I would like to be able to make accommodations for that as well.

That's on page two for construction use.

Construction remodeling projects that we could just put, other than we have short-term moving use.

If I might interject here, the temporary construction use is easy to If I'm doing it for grandma's miscellaneous product that she might have in the house that makes it a different interpretation so if you are going to do that as the code enforcement officer I would recommend

We have 30 days in any 12-month period, but that's for short-term moving. You're moving stuff out of the house.

I would classify that as moving.

Moving to heaven.

That's what it is. It's on.

Notes. Notes.

And obviously the HOAs have not cut up with the Connix boxes yet, so they probably don't prohibit them yet. I'm assuming.

Or it's wrapped up into their storage sheds or limitations.

Yeah. talking to Kent, in the commercial manufacturing zones, dimensions are listed and that's gonna be moved up to apply everywhere across the board, not just in commercial.

So when I was sitting at home going through this, I was running a couple of hypotheticals. And I actually thought it was pretty good. I think it stops the outlier, the negative outlier that causes all the trouble. But it allows commercial use and agricultural. If I'm using store grain near my horse corral or something like that, it allows it with some caveats. but it stops me, as a homeowner and a residential, I have a 1.4 acre lot, it stops me from putting a shipping container against my back fence next to my neighbor's property, which I know he wouldn't want, so.

With the agriculture in section D, that could allow up to, That might be too much for a one acre lot, but . Right. Or if we draw the line, say, well, if it's RR5, then you'd have two acre, two containers.

If I'm living on a wet and dry lawn, and I wanted to build myself a 20 by 40 shed, which is a good size shed, I'd have to get a building permit for it. What's the difference between that and a convex box or even two side by side? Up, down, 20 footers, 25 footers, not 40.

And I see them where there's two of them there, and they have that roof structure that spans over them. For the roof, they would be required to get a building permit.

Requirement down to a minimum separation of five feet, would that be good with the roof? It could be attached, right? They would not be able to be attached, but they could have the covering for snow load or to keep the wet weather out.

But yeah, they would be required to get a building permit

can you put storage of animals in them?

That's a question that I'm not familiar with, but I see why you wouldn't be able to. Right under our definition, it says chickens.

Yeah, because I could see a lot of people.

Just clothing, equipment, goods, household or office materials, merchandise. It doesn't talk about. Chickens.

Yes, yeah.

I could see that being, and you can make an argument, that that storage of animals. It's a cheaper barn. So, but it's not allowed?

As it currently is written, I would interpret it as not allowed.

Well, you wouldn't lock them in there. It's just like almost, I'm just, I'm thinking about what people would do in our county. I'm just thinking about what is rural zoned, allows agricultural use. especially if you don't have HOAs that minimize that. If you put this in place, I think a lot of people would use it, not closing them in, but keeping them open for protection for their animals and elements. I could see that happening. I'm just, more than grandma's clothes.

I think you're kind of thinking about, it's not TikTok, but it's Pinterest. whatever we know how you know my guess my question is to the point of land use how is that different than building a barn a small barn

other than a building permit, in terms of nuisance, if it looks good, if it's all these things, if there's no running utilities to it, no one's living, because you could argue, you could have a chicken coop next to it, which we don't require a building permit for those. I'm just thinking about how this is gonna be interpreted. I see this, if we put this in the code. Maybe I'm wrong.

Do you see any potential where, give you an example, Old high school buddy in British Columbia raises mushrooms in them because of the perfect temperature. Keeps the humidity in. You walk in, you've got stacked rows of

Firminis, you mean, yeah, yeah.

Manure.

Yeah.

They grow mushrooms, edible mushrooms.

Yeah.

Right, not the kind you're used to. With the cars on the lot, right? Anyway, do you see something like the availability of a conditional use permit for someone to do a commercial activity like that? that would allow them on a commercial basis.

But if you're not selling it, it's not, if you were just, I would argue, then it's like, is that just gardening? Is that storage of your mushrooms? Because you're not selling them.

Well, it's a commercial operation. They sell the mushrooms.

Oh, okay. Well, if we wanted to grow, if you wanted to grow mushrooms, you're not selling them. Add that to the list of merchandise and mushrooms.

I guess I just go back to this. You read off here the things that you could possibly put in there, household item list. I just think, why are we approaching it from that angle, from here's what you are allowed to do and only the things that I can think of in this list, versus start the other direction and say, all right, everybody can have one of these. Let's figure out what doesn't work and just prohibit those things. It just seems like an odd way to approach this from the wrong direction. I would like to approach it that, hey, everybody should be able to do what they want on their property. Let's figure out what it is that we can't handle, can't stomach, should protect the neighbors, that sort of thing, and just prohibit those things.

I think we could come up with goals that are objective.

Well, I think you could do that through the setbacks. You know, like shoving it right against your fence so that it annoys the neighbor. You know, you got 20 acres and the guy's house is 30 feet from the fence that's 300 feet away from yours and you decide to put the container right up against this house. I think that's annoying. Just things like that that are objectionable. that's just my thought people should be able to do what they want on their property unless we can figure out what why not and here we still have the residential zones you just can't have one unless it's you're moving in or out or building something and i don't know why you would limit to one on a construction project. You know, if you've got a big house that you're building and the electrician wants to pull in a connex box and the plumber wants to pull in a connex box, I mean, some of these houses are ridiculous that are going into that county right now. So you're gonna see that. And they don't wanna share a connex box, I can tell you that.

I think to Travis's point, and especially in here, if we can, and whether this is enforceable or not, have the idea that they're nice looking.

right, like, and it's enforceable. We can require uniform color and paint and not bright pink and we can do those things.

Look at 4B. Is it too loosey goosey or too vague? I know it's 4C. When it talks about painted to complement adjacent structures and kept in good repair.

Yeah, I would say that needs to be a general across all of them. You don't need to put the kept in good repair if you also make number five. I mean, number five is for everything, right? So you don't need to say it twice. I think anything that gets repeated in the code is bad, because then they're going to conflict over time.

And you're right, not just in commercial, well, I guess, but everywhere, that they should be nice looking. Well, I guess if they're just there for construction, if they're temporary.

Well, that's true. Even men don't. But you don't have to paint it to match the house that you're building.

Well, some places do. But they bring it in.

I don't think we need to be that place.

No, no, no, I'm just saying that as a thing.

So, for example, I know, loaded with graffiti on the sides. That's probably not in the best interest to have rival gangs or anything like that that might now just kind of go to that area and they may provide a target or anything like that. So I like the I like that it's at least amenable to the public.

Yeah, but they're kept in good repair and they're. Colors are nice. Yeah, I don't think they have to be painted to match the house. Correct. Maybe you change it to match the framing and then maybe to the tar paper. That's great. But I think kept in good repair and not objectionable, something.

No neon colors. Graffiti's always neon. I mean, not always, but.

Mine's not. Mine are earth tone.

You have earth tone graffiti at your house? Yeah, I got it. So aesthetic. He's been on Pinterest.

That was a giveaway. So currently, the accessory structure allowed to be fairly close to the property height. and subjectable materials inside chickens or farm animals. I don't, that kind of goes against my understanding of portable storage containers. That to me means you're storing something, you don't necessarily store animals.

I don't know, I can see people using it as a loafing shed pretty easily. Why would we treat it different than a shed in the back? Don't we have setback requirements for a shed in the back?

Like 10 feet.

And that are going to be taller than these things, because you've already limited these things to, you can't even buy the tall one, right? Or can you? Does it go to 9 1⁄2? 9 1⁄2. So you can buy a tall one.

That's as tall as they come, as my research is. 9 1⁄2 is about 40 feet in length.

Yeah, so you get the 8 1⁄2 standard or the 9 1⁄2 tall.

so you just put a cap on it unless you come in for a special building permit and do yeah the roof thing on there i would just argue that that would be probably too large for most residential zones too large of an accessory structure for a storage portable storage shed you know they have a eight foot by 41 by nine and a half foot

yeah i'm not saying that i'm saying we come up with that table of what that is that matches the size of of of the connex box to the size of the lot and maybe there are some lots below which size you can't have

I think I agree with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate to say this out loud. So if we say, okay, it fits on the lot and we're at minimum setbacks, are you okay with some of these higher density communities, specifically where you and I live, driving through and seeing a Connex box in everyone's backyard? Because some of these communities also don't allow fencing. Keep that in mind, because that's in the CC&Rs. But connex boxes didn't really exist when our CC&Rs were written in a lot of places like where I live. So there's nothing on connex boxes, but you can't have a fence. So I can't have a fence where I live for my CC&Rs.

So you're just going to be looking at your neighbor's connex box.

You're just going to be looking at your neighbor's connex box. So I think this is a fair, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Yeah.

That's all I'm saying. And where I live, some of the lots now by us, they were historically acre lots, half acre. They're getting smaller and they're getting smaller like everywhere else in the county, but specifically where you and I live. So if you're, and I don't know everyone's CC&Rs, I just know ours. They were written. We can't have a fence. Like the mountainscape. So our dogs have those collars.

Yeah.

It looks great. I love where I live. I'm not complaining. Well, no, but you have neighbors who do. Like civil. Yeah. Do they? Does the HOA?

No, the neighbors can do that.

The neighbors can go after civilly. Or are they just peer pressure is what I found. That's a good one, too. That's awesome.

HOA shaming.

Yeah. So I'm just, I'm playing a devil's advocate because I know where I live. And if everyone had a Connex box on a half acre lot with no fences, that might, I'm not saying we're not good. I'm not saying I don't agree with it. Just a thought.

It may be the thing that drives the HOA to come together and say, hey, let's. If there is an HOA.

Still civilly. Yeah.

But there should be a way to amend them.

Yeah. I'm just playing devil's advocate, but that is a good, there's a lot of chunk of the county, and I don't know what the rules are with Rome. I know they have some stuff with fences too, but there's some tiny lots in there. And if they had shipping containers, I'm just thinking out loud. There's some areas that we do not allow fencing in this county. Especially where we live.

I don't know. I think people should be able to do what they want. And if three people in your neighborhood put in shipping containers and it makes everybody mad, then they're probably— You sue them? You can't.

Oh, yeah, you can't. Unless you sue them to get offense.

Unless they are in the CC&Rs. But what you could do is unite and say, hey, these CC&Rs are outdated. We need to either get together and repeal them completely, remove them, or amend them.

Or do you only allow shipping containers in rural or residential? And not high-density residential.

Yeah, well, and maybe there is a lot so small that you just say, you know what, there is no size to put in here that makes sense.

Container's the size of the house.

That may be true. That may be a good way to address it in that table.

In that table. Because rural to me, I think like, okay, storage, like when you think rural, which is 0.46 acres is our smallest in rural, yeah? But then smaller than that, which is what a lot of the new development is. I'm just, yeah.

But I would guess that all of the new development has CCRs.

But some of them don't allow fencing. I don't think Rome does. And I can try to, we can try to find it. But this came up in a meeting like a year or two ago.

but Rome is not built out, so I'm sure the declarant can just, like on all of mine, I can just say, I don't want containers in here, and I can just sign a piece of paper, boom, they're banned in the whole thing, as the declarant, so.

And that, but that's up to them, but it also might make our county look really ugly. That's all I'm saying, when people go to lease and drive through, and now you have a ton of shipping containers, and that's their decision. We can't enforce that.

But they're in the backyard.

I mean, I... But the backyard is oriented always on Old Highway. Like, the backyard is not behind the road. The backyard is the side yard from some views, right? Back is relative. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm not saying I don't agree with you. I just think that this is the time to have this discussion before we write code. I agree.

I think we ought to consider the table.

I think a table's a great idea. And then we can look at square footage lots, maybe, and then look at rural versus high density.

Yeah. And maybe if we can find examples of the county, a few examples of kind of what Maddie's talking about, where when we do the table, we can say, hey, here's a couple of examples in our county of this, what we're looking at. Yeah, just a few pictures.

I'll get some. In residential.

Yeah, I guess maybe you can say this, Chris. These 18 you're talking about, we want this code for a reason. Are they a nuisance? I know we have to for state reasons.

I would dare say that half of them were complained about, and the other ones are whatever I want. It's my problem.

The ones that are complained about. You tell us why. What is the complaint?

Yeah. It's because of the contacts box.

Just the fact that it exists. Not that it's too close. They shoved it over by my house. Just ugly. Full of graffiti or anything else. I just don't want it there. I just don't want it there.

Are they small or large lots?

They're the smaller ones. There you go. Smaller as in? Less than an acre would be safe.

We've got some half acre in Peterson that.

See, that's... Less than an acre or the ones I get. That makes sense.

And usually those, just because people have smaller lots does not mean they build smaller houses in Utah. I learned this at a planning conference. We have the largest square foot house in the country, but we're the 15th smallest lot in the country. And so people buy smaller lots, but build the biggest house they can. So when you take your building envelope, even though you're meeting setbacks spatially, it might look horrible. Right? So I'm just... Devil's advocate. So you are finding that of those, there are smaller lots they're getting complained on.

Generally, most people don't like the Connex boxes because they look industrial.

Which is fair. I think that's a fair. They do. They do.

Industrial lot.

That's why we have work sessions. You guys might have already talked about my thought, but I don't know. The limitation on construction may be quite a constraint that I noticed. And you guys probably talked about that already. OK. Yeah, just one per construction site. Most of them, that'll be fine. Several of them, or some construction lots.

They need more than one. They do.

Especially for renovations.

We tied that to the size of a lot.

No, I think it's actually more with the type of project than the size of the block. Renovations, like I've done projects where we have 25 of them on site because we're renovating 25 apartments that people are living in daily. So it's just the type of construction that's going on rather than lots of things.

There's some things, let's say a structure fire. Some of the material gets badly damaged. You're putting that in one. You're putting the stuff that you can salvage in another. Then the remodeling company might come in. They might need theirs. However it might work, right? But there are different reasons that two would work. would be beneficial.

Absolutely. It's temporary. Very temporary.

That's like the least amount.

But any construction company is going to get it off if they can.

You just got to have them.

Yeah, because they're paying money to have them there. So it's not like they're leaving them versus like you're buying one. I think construction to me is transient use.

That's different, yeah.

Put a number on that or not?

I would say it'd be hard to put a number on it.

Portable storage containers may be used during active construction.

Yeah, for temporary purposes during active construction only.

These big houses, I can see three or four 20-footers out there. Absolutely. The owner's got one, the electrician's got one.

Now, the one thing I would, when we're talking the temporary, we're putting them on site, correct? We're not, because you see it quite a bit, they pull up on the road, and if you have a bunch of them in a right of way. I'm guessing that's already covered by something else.

That's trailers more than.

I like the specification. On site. Property.

or creating blind intersections or doing things that create risk to other people by the placement you might have a problem with easements there what what why can't it be on an easement because they'll be on a public utility easement but the pue guys they can just demand that it be moved or they can move it charge it whatever they've got ways to deal with that So that's a good point.

Easements I agree with, but it should be on the site, not in the public right now.

In fact, when I do my plats for townhomes, I got sick of dealing with Rocky Mountain Powers attorneys. So I just say everything on the site is an easement except for under the structures. So if you said I can't park one on an easement, then you just said I can't use it.

And maybe I'm not the only person that does it like that. That's the first time I've heard that. That's pretty generous.

What's that? So that's generous.

I just, it can, yeah. Yeah. It hasn't bit me. Oh, good. In 20 years. Good. I'm good.

I think the big takeaway that I have is we essentially want to redo this draft so it's permissible except for certain setbacks need to be and have a use table.

I think the use table is going to spark a whole other round of discussion.

Especially in the commercial zones. Like you say, town center, I don't. Small lots is where I'm personally in struggle. Small lots and certain commercial zones, maybe not.

what size lot i mean i i may mention that mainly it's the acre less what size lot would you have on your minds that would be the smallest size lot that you would feel comfortable putting the restrictions on i want to base the plot with the size of the container i think i think the lot size

Yeah, I think there's going to be some size of lot below which it just doesn't work at all. And then there's going to be a range between that and another size that, you know, maybe it's a maximum of 20 feet. And then above that, you can have one 40-footer or whatever. And then on these big agricultural pieces, I don't know why we're limiting them. I mean, maybe there's some obscene amount, you know. We have a container farm. A container farm. Yeah.

I agree with you on ag. It's ag. It's probably used and stored and great for what they're doing.

Cheap storage.

And those zones are set away from main residential, well, not everywhere.

820 behind the rural residential.

But there is a break.

Maybe there is something to say that if the ag is next to a residential neighborhood, then...

Maybe there is a setback there. Buffer.

They have a bunch of them.

So you mentioned buffering. It's the first time we've really talked about the buffering ideas.

Yeah.

You mean screening?

Screening more? I don't think it's a horrible idea. I'm just, I don't know if you were in here. There's a lot of places that have CCNRs or HOAs that maybe we don't know about today in this room. I live in one of them where we can't have a fence. And so I'm thinking if a lot of my neighbors that are on half acre lots put shipping containers that are massive and we're not allowed to have fences.

That acts as a fence.

The neighborhood becomes an eyesore really quickly.

And I think maybe in residential zones they need to be screening.

Why don't you just allow them? And then everybody can call it a fence. They can use it as a fence. And everybody can have this network of storage. That'd be amazing. I'm moving to Huntsville. That's a workaround for your CCRs.

connect them all have a tunnel system oh gosh you put them underground have you seen those they make their cool so i was actually going to ask about that yeah shipping container pools storage of water well in the floor shipping container pools but store like cellars they're super easy like a cellar yeah just vegetable cellars there are three properties in mountain green

They found they're cool. They are engineered. The only aspect I have with it is they put the bull in without getting permits, which would include electrical plumbing. And there's no six foot fence around those, which... They just cut the lid off?

Yes, and put them in the ground.

Put water inside.

It's always our people, Travis. Just keep that in mind. It's always our people.

It's a company from British Columbia that did it. I've been in communication with them. They sent me all the information.

And they're fairly inexpensive. And they look nice. They do.

And they store water. Storage.

Just one.

Just one.

They're very commonly used for ranges, for firing positions from ranges and containers. Containers will limit vertical elevation of long guns from that position so they limit where the bullet impact area is. Containers use a lot on ranges.

But to answer your question, I think an acre, half acre, because that to me is, and even that's not really rural in our county. I think a lot of people in other parts of the county besides Mountain Green would argue that an acre is very urban in certain parts of our county. But I think you have to be countywide. So maybe it's an acre, maybe it's a half acre. Below that to me feels high density for where we live in our current county because we're not Salt Lake.

You don't want any of that.

He asked what my definition was of rural or that size. I think that's where we definitely, I don't, personally, I don't know that I would want one on a 30-acre lot, because the houses on the 30-acre lots take up a whole lot, it seems, a lot of the builders, if you drive around.

Then maybe it's a coverage thing.

Yeah. Lot percentage?

I don't know. I've lived on a 30-acre lot. I had a big house, but...

Yeah. Which is almost exactly the same size. So maybe that's where the size comes in.

It's really just the look. Like you were saying, it's an industrial look versus a tough shed look.

Well, and it's cheaper than building a nice big storage barn or garage or something like that. By a lot. So it does have its stigma. Now listen. It's hillbillies.

How many of you are environmentally friendly? This is the super environmentally friendly. For everybody that is environmentally conscious, they should be 100% in favor of reuse of these

these things instead of i think they're awesome there you go see and we're gonna put chickens in them i really think that's what's gonna happen but maybe i'm wrong that's like a thing well i don't care if they put chickens in them you know if they're not in the door in the summer they're gonna have dead chickens um yeah maybe health and safety like they have to have

breathable room.

But you also have some requirements as far as how many animals you can have and farm animals and things like that.

I'm guessing this is covered elsewhere. Yeah. I think you should be able to do what you want with your storage.

Totally.

We're going to go by Travis's house and he's going to have like four storage containers.

I am.

I'm going to graffiti him with hot pink. Spray pink. You've got enough to go on.

okay like we're sitting on a sitting at a good place and having these discussions i think

Are you gonna have a chance to get input from, before you write it again, from the county commissioners? Because we could take the greatest thing back to them and then they start over.

Right, that's the challenge.

Rather than waste your time, our time, are you gonna get, is there a way for you to get feedback before you?

Well, there was quite a, they've already had a discussion. One commissioner was, Adam at Forum wanted them, the other was no. And they were going back and forth. The other said, and I don't want my neighbor to have one, I don't want to have to look at it. He wanted them landscaped.

I mean, we could email them the draft of the next one.

We'll just give it to them.

Yeah, might as well. I cannot imagine how exciting these things are. It's going to be amazing.

The topic that you would like to see, they have all kinds. This is an alphabetical order, but there's even four videos. You can go to the Utah Land Use Institute, and there's a lot of training materials that would be very helpful.

We had so much time that we're supposed to put in every year.

Yep.

It seems like there was something we were supposed to do when we first get on.

Yeah, conditioning. We'll do conditioning uses. Yeah.

Pick one.

I feel like that green one looks great.

OK. Then push it. Do it.

What is a CUP? Acute Useless Process?

Careful, use precisely.

No, a CUP is a land use term for Conditional Use Permit. Conditional use means a land use that, because of its unique characteristics or potential impact on the municipality, surrounding neighbors, or adjacent land uses, may not be compatible in some areas or may be compatible only if certain conditions are required that mitigate or eliminate the detrimental impacts.

It is an effort to attach conditions that minimize the potential harmful impacts of a use that a community has already decided it wants in an area.

The bottom line. If we do it right, we can attach conditions to help it fit in the neighborhood and reduce any bad effects.

We need the next conditional use.

Good evening, and welcome to the Land Use Academy of Utah Forum on Conditional Uses. My name is Brent Bateman. I'm the lead attorney in the Office of the Property Rights Ombudsman, and I'll be your moderator for this forum. There's been a lot of discussion about conditional uses and how to approach them. In this luau video, we would like to delve into the details about the conditional use statute and hopefully clear up any confusion. And to help us do that, we have assembled a panel of some of the most distinguished and experienced land use minds in the state. First, we would like to welcome Mayor Floyd DeBarber from the town of Hemingway, Utah.

Thank you. You're glad I'm here.

Thank you. Thank you for coming this morning. Next, we have County Planning Commissioner Eileen Dover from Logan County. Welcome, Commissioner. Thank you. Glad to have you. And finally, please welcome City Attorney Martin Prince from the firm of Prince and Muntz, DC in Springdale. Welcome.

Thank you.

So glad that you could all take time out of your busy schedules to be here and to help us with this discussion on commission. Now, I'd like to tell the first question out to you, Mr. Mayor, if that's OK. Now, the first question. Mayor, imagine a developer came to your town's planning commission with a conditional use application to build a large dog kennel, proposing to house over 50 dogs in a residential zone. The question is, what is the first thing you would normally do?

Thank you, Brent.

Well, my concern obviously is for the citizens of my city, my constituents, the neighbors in that residential zone.

Now, dog kennels can be noisy and smelly.

Now, my constituents will not want a noisy, smelly kennel in their neighborhood, so we must deny the application out. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor, but that answer is absolutely incorrect. Now I will throw the question open. Anyone else? Anyone? What is the first thing we must do when we get a conditional use permit application? This question is worth 10 points.

Yes, Planning Commissioner Dover. The first thing to do is to check your code to determine if the dog kennel is a permitted use, a conditional use, or a prohibited use in that zone. If it is a conditional use, you would apply the law of conditional uses to that application.

Congratulations, Climate Commission Dover. That answer is absolutely correct. Ten points to you. Now, Commissioner, you may take the difficult follow-up question or pass.

Difficult follow-up? I think I'll go ahead and pass, Brett. Ooh, yeah, putting pressure on the other contestants.

I like that. Okay, so the follow-up question goes to you, Attorney Prince. And this one is worth 20 points. Are you ready?

Here's the question.

You've noted that the dog kenneling question is listed as a conditional use in the zone. According to state law, can you now deny the application because dogs are noisy and smelly? And in order to help our studio audience, we will show the state statute on conditional uses. Remember that our panelists cannot see the statute, so please do not shout out the answer. Your answer, Attorney Prince, can the application be denied?

Well, let me think here, Brent. The state statute states that a conditional use shall be approved if reasonable conditions are proposed or can be imposed to mitigate the reasonably anticipated detrimental effects of the proposed use in accordance with applicable standards. That means that if we have listed a dog kennel as a conditional use in a residential zone, our city wants dog kennels in the zone, and we shall approve them if reasonable conditions can be imposed to mitigate the detrimental effects. We can only deny the application if we cannot substantially mitigate the detrimental effects by imposing reasonable conditions.

Times up now. Is that your final answer?

Our city listed the dog kennel as a conditional use, so in most cases, we cannot deny the dog kennel's conditional use application.

Congratulations! That is correct! Well done, well done. 20 points to you, and the correct answer has earned you a bonus question for 10 points. Are you ready? Are you nervous? Okay, here we go. Your 10-point bonus question. What conditions can you impose?

I presume the detrimental effects of a kennel with 50 dogs would be noise from barking and probably smell from the dogs. So the city would impose a reasonable condition that would reduce the neighbor's ability to hear the barking noise, such as requiring the kennel to be kept at least 1,000 feet from other homes. You would also impose a condition that would reduce the smell, such as requiring cleanup and sanitary waste disposal. Judges, can we accept that answer?

Sorry, sorry, I'm sorry, but you are only partially correct. You have omitted a critical factor. Yes, Planning Commissioner Dover.

The conditions you impose must comply with standards in your ordinance.

Very good!

And that's five points to you. Yes, your next step is to determine the detrimental effects and impose reasonable conditions to mitigate those effects. But those conditions must comply with standards in your ordinance. You cannot just make conditions up! Very good. Now, before we continue, Gary, please tell our panelists what today's prize is.

Brent, tonight's winner will receive this beautiful lounge set valued at $1,500. Thanks, Gary.

Now, on to the next question. Are you ready? What is the meaning of the term standard set forth in an applicable ordinance? Mr. Mayor. Yes.

Yes.

Could you repeat the question?

Oh, I'm sorry. That is incorrect, Mr. Mayor.

Attorney Muntz, now is your chance to steal. Can I ask you to repeat that question? Oh, I'm sorry. That is also incorrect.

So it is up to you, Planning Commissioner Dover. This question is worth 50 points, which will put you comfortably in the lead. Are you ready? What is your answer?

Could you repeat the question? Sure. Sure. No problem. I'll repeat the question.

What is the meaning of standards set forth in an applicable ordinance?

The state statute requires that any condition that you impose upon a conditional use comply with standards in your ordinance. Standards are like goals that you have for your community that reflect what your citizens would like the community to be. They must be in your ordinance and should be objective and measurable. So, if you have a standard in your ordinance on noise, you can impose upon the dog kennel a condition that they take measures to reduce the noise to comply with the standard. If you don't have a standard on noise, you cannot impose a condition on noise. Thus, you will need to approve the dog kennel without imposing a noise condition.

Congratulations. That is absolutely correct. Very well done. So, at the end of our first round, the score is Mayor DeBarber, zero points. Attorney Muntz has 15 points and in the lead, Planning Commissioner Dover with 65 points. Very nice, very nice. Okay, and now it's time to move on to our lightning round. I'm going to say your name and then ask you a question about conditional uses. Each question is worth 10 points. Are you ready? Here we go. Mr. Mayor, what three things are found in most local zoning codes?

Voting booths and people that vote and constituents. I'm wrong.

I'm sorry. Most codes contain permitted uses, conditional uses, and a statement that if a use is not listed as permitted or conditional, it's a prohibited use. Commissioner, are you required by law to include conditional uses in your zoning code?

No.

That's absolutely correct. You do not need to include conditional uses in any code for 20 months. What is the standard of review for a conditional use application?

Well, conditional uses are an administrative decision that can be made by whatever administrative body is appointed to that task by the local legislative body. Oftentimes, conditional uses are decided by the Planning Commission, but do not need to be.

The standard for review for an administrative decision is substantial evidence in the record.

That means if your conditional use decision is supported in the record by substantial evidence, it is not arbitrary and capricious and will be upheld.

Oh, I'm sorry. Your answer was absolutely correct, but it was way too long and leery. Mr. Mayor, when an unpopular but legal conditional use application causes an uproar in your community, and hundreds of angry citizens come to the Planning Commission meeting to express their frustration and to demand that you say no, what is the proper action to take?

Take their side, deny the application, and win lots of prizes.

Wrong! The correct answer is follow the law and make an evidence-based decision even if it's unpopular. Commissioner, what do we do with public clamor?

That sounds like a great subject for a future Luau video, Brent. Absolutely correct.

Ten more points to you. Now, Attorney Muntz, what is the difference between public clamor and evidence?

Well, Brent, evidence is the substance of...

I'm sorry, that is incorrect due to the fact that you are going to be boring and lawyering again. And that means Plenty Commissioner Dover is our winner! Yay! And that is our forum for conditional uses for today. Please join us tomorrow for another Ute Luau forum on complicated legal matters, where more fabulous prizes will be given away. We'll see you then. And remember, if you have something listed as a conditional use that you always want to deny, change your ordinance to make it a prohibited use. If it's conditional, that answer will usually be yes. See you next time.

There's quite a few of our conditional use permit. Like we don't have standards. That was interesting. We do. Yeah. There's some that don't have standards.

Do we have standards listed in our code?

But you don't know that the standards that you need are in the code.

A lot of them are environmental. Yeah.

Yeah, the states kind of put some pressure on local jurisdictions to kind of get away from conditional uses. Mm-hm. It's more straightforward to have permitted or not. And where I've worked at Saratoga Springs, they don't have conditional uses. It's either permitted or not. Usually you can kind of preciably anticipate what is allowed or not.

And therefore the standards for that are wired in.

That would make our life a lot easier.

What? Mm-hmm.

We can take a little break before a regular meeting.

How much time do we have to have per year?

Three, four hours. Three hours?

Four. That's four.

That's my memory.

Can we do these on our own? What are we allowed to do, and what are we allowed to count? That's a very good question.

This would definitely count.

I think it's 4W, but I could be wrong. It's a minute. It says, required annual training, required to complete all training, according to state code, one hour of annual training on general powers and duties with county attorney and zoning administrator, three hours of annual training on land use, which include, and they list them, appeals and variances, conditional use permits, Fractions, impact fees, vested rights, subdivision regulations and improvement guarantees, land use, referendum, property rights, real estate, procedures and financing, zoning, form-based and use-based, and drafting ordinances and code that complies with state statute. So three, we need one hour of general powers and duties and then three hours of land use.

The one hour is specifically with?

County attorney. and zoning administrator.

Yeah, these videos, there's a whole bunch of them. Some of them are kind of committee, committee care, funny and humorous, but others are really more serious, so there's a wealth of information out there.

Yeah, I first saw this when I went to a Harriman Planning Commission meeting, and they just, as a matter of course, they just shut off the lights, fire up with the next video, and use up whatever time they have left to watch these videos. Can we do these on our own, I guess, is my question. Can I count every other Planning Commission meeting that I go to towards that?

I think it's a Josh question, because I think he was interpreting that either you had to go or it had to be attorney or zoning administrative led. But I think that's an interpreter.

Our one-hour annual training on general powers and duties, we can do that because we're doing our bylaws. So that discussion... I think that could fall into that.

And normally Garrett does the Open Meetings Act.

As far as our powers and duties, our bylaws will address that.

Did that answer my question? No. I don't think so. Can I watch these on my own?

You can watch it on your own. I don't know if it's going to count as credit. I think you need Josh because he's the code interpreter. To do what? To tell you whether or not he says it will count.

Can you find an answer for that or somebody get an answer?

I don't know if anything is set up where we can watch it at home, but Jeremy would know got me that we have to

You know what I mean? That monitor it. I mean, that shows that you watched it. You know, if you click, yeah. I guess they don't know, you don't know if you paid attention or not, but that it was at least playing.

But are you going to pay attention if you go to Provo either? Right, I know. I did get one good fact, that we have the largest house on the 15th smallest lot.

No, no, no, no, no. Utah. Utah.

No, Utah.

Utah is the largest house in the country. He comes. He's really easy to summon.

I will get with Josh and see if there's any NOBA 4 training, that's what you're talking about, that you can log into in relation to planning. I don't know if there is or isn't.

Okay. Or just self-reporting this.

That's way beyond my – or anybody. Okay. But if there's a NOBA for them, we can definitely do that just like we do security training, everything like that. to maintain your chickens. Nice, you should do it. I was really good at keeping them in the box. No. I'm sorry, just stay away.

I'm sorry, just stay away.

I went and moved in our apartments in Williamson.

For some reason, that coincided with this chicken craze. Every meeting I went to, everywhere, every planning convention, every city council,

chicken every freaking time yeah it was chickens and sourdoughs they just took off yeah it was like covid everyone was like homesteading that's like a thing now everyone is doing it hey chris what do you think about the containers that are burned down

i know that's a fun conversation isn't it They've remade them since we ordered them, and apparently they're easier. My husband did them. He's cursing me.

No, so you have to have them cut a hole where they template it. No, you've got the electrical box, but it has to be in that hole, in that box. So they come in and they template it. All the wires, they countersink it.

So I gave them the conventional cover, and they do the countersink. So they countersink the box, they put it in.

So it has like a little divot out of the top.

We have a, we have a, yeah, this is so cool. So we do all this. Yeah. This is my favorite thing. And this is where my truck got installed.

at one point and now i'm using it

Which, it does get hard, so.

But, I also love, like, cool stamina. Yeah, those are the big, we're still living in the basement. So it was a big, it was a big.

Now we just have touch repeat. Stairs are going in this weekend. It has food in it. That was a big deal.

And I have this fridge on the island that looks like a cabinet. And it's just La Croix. Like flavored sodas, olive bobs, poppies. That's what they do.

And then I have my gas can on the fridge.

So I don't have to go in the big, messy fridge. And I have my buttered fridge.

That's right.

This is what I've been with.

Side salad.

So when I was a teenager, I made sword toys. Do you have a wood shop?

Do you have a wood shop? So I made these trains when I was a teenager.

Do you do this as a psychosom?

and then when i was teenagers these are kind of updated versions yeah we've got this tugboat and these are updated versions there you have brass and i would like some we built a big gunsmithing way that's how we're going to turn over

That would be terrible. I'd just rather give them away.

I know.

This is my daughter's cat.

Let your daughter sell them. Yeah.

It's a great idea. Orchard is a fundraiser. Donate. That little rocket launch I made, that was another thing. I'd like to call this meeting of the Planning Commission to order. It's Thursday, August 13th, 2026. And I've asked Member Taylor to offer a word of prayer, and then if everyone would rise with us and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Our Father in heaven, we're grateful to be here, to be able to serve, to live in this great nation. We're grateful for those who serve us and we're grateful for those residents here that we can be a part of their lives, a part of the community. We're grateful for this opportunity we have to discuss matters of the county. We ask that you bless us that we will be able to consider those carefully and be inspired to make the right decisions and recommendations. We ask you to bless those that are protecting us and may be watched over and be safe, be with their families. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag

of United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The next item is the approval of the agenda.

Motion.

Motion by Member King.

Second.

Second by Member Watt. All in favor?

Aye.

Motion carries. Declaration of conflict of interest with any item on the agenda by a member? OK, seeing none, we'll move on. Now the time for public comment. The items on the agenda tonight. are all legislative and so they each have their own public hearing. So we request if you do have a comment regarding any item on the agenda that you wait until we open the public comment time to make your comment. But now's the time for general public comment if you would like. We'd ask that you come up and state your name and we limit comments to three minutes. Okay, seeing none, we will move on to our first item. This is the public hearing discussion decision on the Anderson ReZone.

Commissioner, this is a ReZone request. The application number is 26.014 and it's labeled as the Anderson ReZone. and it's located at 2685 West Old Highway Road. The current zoning is RR1 and Agriculture 20. The general plan designation is Village Low Density Residential, which is half acre lots. So this rezone request is in line with the future land use in the general plan. So the county staff believes that the proposed zoning map amendment from R1 and A20 to R120 is consistent with sound planning principles. There's an adjacent lot that's also zoned R120. So it seems to make sense that the subject property is located in proximity to existing water infrastructure operated by the Central Enterprise Water Association. Of course, the applicant will need the approval of the Weber Morgan Health Department for the location and type of the septic system. So staff recommends approval for this rezone request. If you have any particular questions, I'll be glad to address those at this time.

Okay, any questions for staff? Apparently not.

I actually did have one.

Okay.

So I was just looking, maybe this is neither here nor there, but I was looking at the plat map and really not so much the plat map, just the aerial of the separation. And we're just, the only parcel that's included in that is the A20 right, go to the next one. Right there where it's pointing, not the one further down, right? Correct. And then going to the next page, it kind of looks like it is. So it might just be a simple adjustment.

Yeah, it's just the one lot.

Right, but it's also showing up here that it's... Oh, maybe it's just zoomed in.

I think this is the lot, but this is just showing that all this is... But it zoomed in more, yes.

Yeah, okay. It's just zoomed in further than I noticed before. Okay, never mind, we're good.

Okay, you're gonna have any questions for the applicant, the applicant? Okay, if there's no questions, we will have a motion to go into public hearing. Motion. Okay, a motion by Member Watt. Second. Second by Member Maloney. All in favor?

Aye.

Okay. Voting is unanimous. We are now in public hearing. Anyone in the public would like to make a comment now would be your time. Seeing none, ready for a motion to go out of public hearing? So moved.

Second.

Motion by member Maloney and a second by member Taylor. All in favor?

Aye.

OK. We are out of public hearing. Any more discussion? Mission on this reason. If not, I'm ready for a motion.

I'll make one.

I move we forward a positive recommendation to the County Commission for the Anderson Rezone application number 26.014, changing 2.91 acres from RR1A, RR1 slash A20 to R120, based on the findings listed in the staff report dated August 3, 2026. I'll second.

Okay, I have a motion by Member Taylor and a second by Member King. Any more discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, motion carries, unanimous. Okay, the next item, number seven, was the Eagle Vista Future Land Use Map Amendment and Rezone. It says this item has been continued to a future date, so question. can we make a motion, attorney, can we make a motion to postpone to a date certain and not re-advertise, or do we just let it go?

Did the applicant indicate at all when the request was made? Because this request didn't come through. Did they say whether they wanted a date certain or not? Because I know that there's a work group session with the commission next week, and these are all kind of considered together, the two applications. So I would recommend just to save them money to a date certain, but I'd put it out there always.

We suggest maybe the second meeting of September, which would be September 24th. To my knowledge, the applicant did not indicate a certain date certain. I just wanted it to be postponed.

Okay, so postponed to the date certain of September 24th. I have a motion for that. So moved.

Second.

Okay, motion by Member Maloney and a second by Member Taylor. All in favor?

Aye.

Motion carries, unanimous. Okay, the next item is the public hearing discussion decision, the agriculture protection zone, areas, excuse me.

Good evening, commissioners. Valerie Klassen with Planning Outpost. I have been tasked to complete this text amendment for the agricultural protection areas. somewhere is it is it just in the packet just pull through it or not okay you know it's not looking familiar um sure sorry i sent it and i last week but i'm sure maybe i sent it too but too soon let's see how quickly i can do this wait what are we looking for it's not this Oh, it was a presentation. It was a presentation I'd sent, but it's all good. It's good for memory, though. Yep. I have it here in front of me, so I don't have to use it for memory.

OK. What's the email address and money? OK, so it's .

And then UTA.

OK. And if not, we'll keep it. You guys, it's not the .. Maybe.

That's my problem.

This is my ..

Okay, I'll just do it from here, no worries. Okay, so the agricultural protection areas, there were provisions in your current code. They just ended up, They just weren't complete. So what this text amendment does is it completes the portion of that process and so what you have before you was, you'll see what was existing, we did do it in legislative format so you could see those changes and And so the provisions talk about the purpose and intent, the establishment of the AP Advisory Board, which is five members from the County Conservation Board of Supervisors. and the property's eligibility to be in a agricultural protection zone at least five contiguous acres been in ag production at least two consecutive years and then under the faa greenbelt it's presumed to meet those ag standards it also discusses who and how to file the signature threshold and the contents of the application um what is more restricted than state code is that non-consuming parcels will not be included in the boundaries so state code would allow that, but direction from county said, no, don't bring anybody in that doesn't want that. Then notification requirements, the referral of the review evaluation criteria, there's a mandatory review time that has to be met, otherwise it's presumed to be approved. So by those unique circumstances where there's 45 day time limit for those reviews to occur from both APA, advisory board, and then the planning commission to make that recommendation to county commission. Then there's a public hearing and the final action. It discusses the recordation effective date, the state coordination and the fees. And then the process for either adding or removing from agricultural protection areas is included. And then just a provision about the annexed land and periodic reviews that the county would be holding on these properties every 20 years. So that's the overview in regular language. And then you do have the actual text in your packet. So happy to answer any questions you have.

So this is just to get your property green built?

No. Green built is a taxing thing. This is the land use component of an agriculture protection zone that allows the ag protection for these properties that want to be part of that.

So it protects agricultural land, let's say if a pipeline wants to come through, if you're part of this agricultural protection area designation, you can stop that pipeline from coming through.

It kind of locks down the property from being rezoned, from being... Like Rocky Mountain Power can't come through?

They can do eminent domain. They can do, yeah.

But like the standard like... Like if a city couldn't just come in and take it and be like, hey, we're rezoning this. I mean, go through annexation or whatever, but it just really locks down the parcels to be agriculture.

It's the same, if you can find an alternate route around, you need to use that, then go through this protected ag ground. Yes?

Hey, Becker, Morgan County Manager. I'm the one that tasked Bell to write this. The redneck dumbed down version of that is the best example is Hever City, where that highway, where that reroute of the highway is going. If those dairy farms had been an ag protection, it's almost as if a fake building was built on top of them. And so they can't just go, oh, that's the easiest path forward. no you would have to go through buildings in order to make that happen this if they had been an ag protection there's no way udot could have chosen the route through the dairy fields to to put that road um developments here developments happening is our only way to protect our our farms um from being the path of least resistance for development

Would this protect them from something like MITA coming in and saying they wanted to put a data center on them?

Okay, so that's a double-edged sword. The short answer is... no um it would protect the water shares because but they can leave ag protection at any time okay so um there's an application process to get into ag protection but they can send us there's a very easy process to get out if the landowner wanted to sell their land and or water shares to do a project like that however there is a code text amendment for the county on data centers in the queue i know we talked about that last meeting so cool so that's it's pretty important to understand that we're not locking up anybody's property this isn't this is a protection it doesn't there's no essential negative consequence except for that the permit fee that you have to pay. They can take it out at any time.

We don't know what that fee is yet.

We do not, but as this is a pretty high priority of the county commission, it'll be fairly de minimis and probably not equal to the value of statute.

Thank you. I do have a question. It's on page three. under eligibility and qualifications under three. Production level, land included in the proposed agriculture protection area shall produce, but this, or be capable of producing. I think it has to produce because it has to be part of Greenbelt, the FAA,

It does not. So the Ag Protection and Greenbelt are actually two separate things.

Yeah, but I thought you had to qualify under the Greenbelt to be able to put it in Ag.

No, no. But the county is saying we want it to be similar, but they are two separate things. So that language is actually probably taken from state code. But if you want it to not have the capable in the active, we can do that. As a farmer, I disagree.

As a farmer, I disagree, because we can we can sell our ag rights to the state and make our fields not produce at the request of the state and federal government. We don't get tax incentives for that. Like we get paid in lieu of a crop. And this would still allow you to qualify for ag protection, even though your fields aren't so at that time.

CRP, baby. Well, CRP, you can still qualify for Greenbelt. Yes.

Correct. Yeah.

Yes. Well,

So I understand what you're saying.

The code is written so that, like, if you're green belted, you're assumed to qualify, but it works. It's not a, I'll usually explain. Like, you can be green belted, or you can be ag protected and not green belted. You could be green belted and not ag protected.

But if you're green belted, you would be qualified for this. Yes. But this is a little broader. Capable of producing doesn't mean you're in CRP. I mean, just that land could possibly, under some circumstance, produce something.

I mean, I look at where Jeff puts his cows, and I try to figure out how they eat until it starts on fire. So it's capable of producing something. Grazing, yeah. Grazing, yeah. But you can't plant alfalfa up there.

Well, I guess I don't see a reason why you... wouldn't wanna have that in here as it's written. I mean, it's looser, and if the objective is to protect these areas, then why not have that in there?

I agree with you. I just wanted to not redline that section. Okay, no, no, that's fine.

And it has to have been qualifying agricultural production for at least two years. and that qualifying agricultural production then kind of falls back to the green belt qualifications of the 50%. Is that how I read this?

Relationship is that the land that currently is assessed under FAA shall be presumed to meet the actives. Yes. And then, so this is in actually paragraph five. Land that is not currently assessed may still qualify for ag protection. if they're able to demonstrate. And then there's no guarantee that the app is going to be.

But you had to be two years actively devoted to agricultural use, not just capable of producing. It talks about actively devoted to, and then now we say, Or capable of producing. Correct.

So, like, I can have 40 acres and run two goats on it. That wouldn't meet the qualification of Greenbelt per AMU. But, or AUMs. AUMs. AUMs. Leave it to the government to add a bunch of letters. So, it is capable of meeting the requirements of Greenbelt. I don't, maybe I just want to run it.

so would it also include like if you used it for two years and then a year you didn't and then the fourth year you applied for the agricultural protection zone then that would still qualify i'm struggling to see how you ag land wouldn't be used for you just let it sit whole of used for

Like right now, we've got somebody's goats and peacocks at the fairgrounds because they're evacuated. I mean, if they were to stay there for more than a year, for more than half of the year, they don't know when they're qualified.

So paragraph D1 talks about the area. Section 2 on a land proposed for inclusion shall be actively devoted to agricultural use with a reasonable expectation of profit from agricultural production b it has to be land shall have been in qualifying agricultural production for at least two consecutive years immediately preceding the filing date for the proposal and see the two-year periods may be demonstrated through documentation, blah, blah, blah. So this kind of flies in the face of capable. This says you've got to be doing it. So if the intent is to be capable, then you've got conflicting things here, it appears.

Sorry, I missed the D2. It uses shall.

shall be actively devoted.

And then three kind of conflicts with that, with two. So it seems like we need to make up our minds.

Because for Greenbelt, on average you need the 50% utilization of that ground. that that ground is capable of producing. You have to use at least 50%, whether it's AUM or crops, tonnage per acre. So you can't be part of greenbelt if your ground is just capable of producing that. You actually have to produce it.

but that's what it does.

Greenbelt to qualify. It's how I read this, but maybe not partially.

I mean, yeah, it does similar requirements, but I just think there's a problem here. Yeah. I just think there's a problem here.

Two and three. Yeah. Contradict. Yeah.

We can clean that up and take those parts out, but it's going to be leaning toward So then if someone like had a

six acre property and they have their one acre house on it which they can do for greenbelt and they're i guess it's maybe they're not claiming in greenbelt we're saying they're not but they say it's capable of producing because you have a six acre property could they put that in ag in our county even if it's zoned r5 or r10 or you know what i'm saying like even if it's not ag land in the county our zoning doesn't match that but we have lots that are that way that would be included in this correct if they have five continuous acres that can be used yes okay sorry jeremy's gonna yell at me because i'm gonna talk about something however common if part of that five acres is your um what did we just talk about the

made out of the storage container. That's not a watering trough. It doesn't meet the definition.

So would a five acre parcel with a house on it then count? Because I know it doesn't for Greenbelt. No. Okay. Minimum of a five. Plus an acre for a house.

It takes out the homestead.

Okay, there you go. So it's a similar. Same. Okay, cool. Yeah.

So five agricultural acres. Correct. Minimum.