Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

[Applause] I call to meeting the April 9th meeting of the McGomery County Planning Commission. I call it to order and if Mr. Lincoln will determine a quorum. Mr. Croll here. Mr. Miller, Miss Sharp Robinson, Miss Simpkins here, Mr. Mr. Waltz here. Mr. Workman here. Mr. Lincolnis is here. Vice Chair Foster here. Chair Rice here. And let's see. We have the agenda in front of you. Move approval. Second. I've got a motion, a second for approval of the agenda. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. And those opposed? Likewise. And then the um consent agenda is before you and consist of the minutes from the March 12th planning commission meeting. So moved. Second. Okay. I've got a motion and a second for approval of the consent agenda. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. And those opposed likewise. And then we will move into our public hearing portion of the meeting. Miss Hopkins. Yes. Before we get started, um we did have a public hearing scheduled for a request by states and homes. Um agent was Ballser and Associate. That public hearing has been postponed at the request of the applicant. We do not have a new date determined at this time, but once it is, we will advertise it and send out notices accordingly. If you are here um on behalf of that request, there will be an opportunity to speak during public address. Um otherwise, the hearing will not be opened. So, uh, our first public hearing this evening is a request by Shaw Development LLC for a special use permit to allow a contractor storage yard. It's proposed

that an existing structure on the site will be used for storage as well as onsite outdoor storage. And now, Mr. Cochran is going to present this. Thank you. Uh here we have the vicinity map of the subject property. You can see that the property um or the map on the left uh shows that the property is just outside of the town of Kersonensburg uh town limits. Um and on the right you can see a little bit more of a zoomed in photo of ex of the exact location of the subject property. Here you can see an aerial map um to the left showing the subject property um and then the zoning map to the right. um with the zoning map showing the majority of the surrounding land uh being agricultural. Um so a little bit of background on the property. Um uh Shaw Development reached out to us about getting a special use permit for a contractor storage yard on Flanigan Drive. Uh the contractor storage yards are allowed only by approved SUP in the A in the A1 zoning district. Um the property is located at the end of Flanigan Drive which intersects uh uh State Route 8. The subject property uh does not have any road frontage along Flanigan Drive, but is accessed by a 40 foot wide access easement. Uh the subject property totals 18 acres and has an existing structure previously used for the storage of agricultural equipment. Um again, the definition of a contractor storage yard is an area used for the storage of equipment and/or materials used for providing construction related contracting services including but not limited to flooring, heating, plumbing, roofing, landscaping, and excavation. Uh so for the request, Shaw is seeking a location for a contractor storage yard to store equipment, vehicles, and materials used for their development operations. The property in the existing 18,000 ft² structure were previously used for agricultural operations and is still currently being used for the

storage of some agricultural equipment. Uh employees of Shaw Development will be the primary users of the property, transporting equipment and materials to and from job sites as necessary, typically between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Um employees will be transient in nature with no full-time uh on-site employees. Um there will be an estimated of three to seven trips uh per week. Um, typical equipment to be stored on site includes trailers, trucks, skid steers, excavators, tractors, equipment attachments, construction boxes, and tools. Typical materials to be stored on site includes metal building materials, blocks, stone, fencing, and deck materials. U, most materials will be stored inside the building in order to keep them out of bad weather conditions. Um, but some materials are expected to be located outside of the structure in the existing gravel areas on site. Um here you can see um a basic site plan provided by the applicant kind of just showing um the structure itself uh in relation to the uh gravel area on the property. Um and then just basically depicting that any of the storage outdoor storage materials will be located on that graveled area. Um here you can see some photos of Flanigan Drive. Um the photo to the left is at the culac at the end of Flanigan Drive. Um, also showing the driveway access to the property. Uh, the photo photo to the right is just the end of the culde-sac. Uh, the photo on the left is the subject uh, property with the existing structure. Um, and this photo is from the driveway driving up to the property. Uh, the photo on the right is um, the same building looking down. Um, and here are just some exterior photos of the subject property. Um here are some views of the subject property from adjacent property that is not owned by Shaw development. Um so the

the photo to the left is an adjacent land owner to the rear. And you can see that the majority of the property or the structure is um not visible from the adjacent property. Um and then the photo to the right is the property that's up on the hill looking down at the subject property. Um and you can see that the topography doesn't really um lend itself to um that much visibility of it. Um so going into impacts of the proposed use, uh the Virginia VOTE has reviewed the special use permit application and takes no exception to the approval of to allow the use. There is no significant traffic impacted traffic impacts anticipated to the state roads. Uh the driveway through the a existing access easement will continue to be owned and maintained by Shaw Development. Um the subject property is not located within a flood hazard area. Uh no water or sewage is needed for the proposed use. Landscaping screening, parking, signage, and other requirements will be reviewed as part of the site plan review process. Uh compliance with all um erosion and sediment control measures is will be verified during that same site plan use as well. Um no significant increase in noise is anticipated um other than material um and equipment um um being moved around on the property or immobilized to and from the site. Um the existing exterior wall mount wall-mounted lightings will be wall wall-mounted lighting will be used um and it is not anticipated um and currently does not spill onto adjacent properties. Um any additional lighting that may be installed would have to meet the zoning ordinance requirements. Um and there's no fencing proposed at this time. Um should there be any security issues, um the applicant may decide uh decide to install um any some fencing, but it would also have to meet the zoning ordinance requirements. Uh the subject property is located um in the resource stewardship um comprehensive plan designation. um

that is rural those are rural areas with uh high resource value based on soil types, environmental sensitivity and other unique land characteristics. And the county may permit new non-aggriculturally related institutional uses by special exemption provided the use is compatible in scale and intensity with with the agricultural and rural residential uses and pose no threat to public health, safety, and welfare. Uh so the proposed contractor storage yard would provide a viable use for an existing structure and lot. The proposed use would generate limited impacts on surrounding properties with storage of equipment and materials located out of sight of adjacent properties. Uh the pro the project would not generate any significant noise or traffic to the area other than moving equipment. The lot is accessed through land owned by the subject property uh owner. Therefore, further reducing any potential traffic or noise concerns. Uh and again, VOTE takes no exception to the uh proposal. Uh staff recommends approval of the request for a special use permit to allow contractor storage yard with the following conditions. Site uh shall be developed in general conformance with a submitted concept sketch dated March 3rd, 2025. A basic site plan addressing zoning conformance with landscaping, screening, parking, signage, and other requirements shall be approved prior to issuance of any county permits. Contractor storage yard shall not be open to the public. The contractor storage yard shall not create any significant exterior impacts, including noise, vibration, glare, odors, or electrical interference. There shall be no trash, litter, debris, junk, or construction waste stored on site. Typical hours of operation shall be 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Any exterior uh lighting installed on the property shall be designed to prevent glare onto adjacent properties and comply with dark sky friendly standards. Contractor equipment and vehicles stored on the property shall be in good working condition at all times. Um adjoining property owners were notified in accordance with McGomery County Code. Um public hearing the two public hearing signs were placed on the

property. Uh legal ads are run in a news messenger and staff has received no additional comments from the public. Any additional comments may be received during the public hearing. Are there any questions for staff? Any questions for Mr. Cochran? The applicant is also here to answer any questions. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cochran. Yes. Uh, could you tell me the size and square footage of the existing building? The existing building, I believe, is 18,500 ft. And is there any limitation in resource stewardship A1 uh on size? There is not. Thank you, Mr. Cochran. Yes. Could you go back to your uh staff analysis? Um what are you and No, come on. I'm sorry. I sent you too far. There you go. Okay. Um what are you defining as the contractor's storage yard? Just the structure and the pad around it. So it' be the structure itself with the gravel area. Okay. Surrounding. Yes. Thank you. Yep. Any further questions for I have one question. Yep. Um it was stated that there was another um contractor storage yard approved like 20 some years ago. Does it have a building on it as well or is it just a It does. Yeah. Okay. I just wondered if the building is is not required for it to be a contractor storage yard. No. Okay. It could it could just be a gravel lot with equipment stored. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Any further? Thank you, Mr. Coch. Does the applicant wish to speak?

Kevin Connor with Shaw Development. Um, that was the first I'd seen the condition. So, I just wanted to just one point of clarification. The Monday through Friday, 8 to 5. Sometimes we do work on Saturdays and Sundays, too. just we might go get a piece of equipment or something. I just didn't want it to be an issue with any of the neighbors if we showed up on Saturday and they call like, you know, okay, Mr. Connor, how about Sunday? We we typically don't do anything on Sunday unless it's on a job site somewhere because I believe there's a church also on Flanigan. No, I don't think so. No. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I I don't think there's going to be an issue, but I just did want it to be a technicality and somebody. So, that's all. Thank you, sir. At this time, we will open up the floor for public hearing. If anyone would like to speak to this issue, this condition use permit, please come forward. Okay, seeing none, we'll close the public address portion of the meeting and then we'll open up for discussion amongst commissioners. the the um conditions that we've got. Is that something that we typically have for every contract storage or Yes, those are typical um for most of the contractor storage yards that we have approved. They can be adjusted as you see fit fit.

I believe it would not cause any more impact to add Saturday. Saturday had Saturday and that seemed like a a fair. Any other discussions? What would be required if the owner decided to double or triple or quadruple the the uh structure on that property? If it's more than 50% enlargement, I think they would have to come back. Um, this isn't tied to a a specific conceptual plan, but if it got to be out of general conformance, we we would make them come back. Thank you. And and do you mind can we roll back to the um to the conditions just so we're all clear on the the pawn conditions? Yes. So, with that condition number one, um, general conformance, if if they got far outside that area, if they had to shift it or move it or something like that, it probably wouldn't have to come back, but if it expanded, it would. And we're talking about number six, modifying that to say Monday through Saturday. Okay. any um Mr. Chairman, I move approval of the uh our staff's recommendation with conditions and number six amended. Second. Okay. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second for approval of the

condition use permit with the uh with the conditions and the modified number six to include Saturday. Uh Mr. Lincolnis, you'll pull the commission. Mr. Croll, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Mr. Waltz, yes. Mr. Workman, yes. Mr. Lincolnis, yes. Vice Chair Foster, yes. Chair Rice, yes. Oh, Miss Simkins, I'm sorry. Miss Simkins, I'm sorry. Our second public hearing this evening is a request by Northstar Church to reszone 10 acres from agriculture to community business with profer conditions to allow for future expansion opportunities for the existing church. And Miss Wright is going to present this. Thank you. Thank you, chair. On the left, we have a map showing where the church is located. You will see that identified by the star that is located outside of the town of Blackburg. On the right is a zoomed in um view of that that shows the more approximate location of the church. On the left, we have the aerial map photography that shows the location of the church outlined in yellow. To the right of that is the new West Hill development and across the road is um the new preserve at Walnut Springs development. And on the right we have the zoning map which shows those two new developments as identified as being zoned Pudres. And across the street is a community business zone which is the former Eminem tire and agricultural surrounding the properties as well as one R3 property across the

road. In 2014, the church purchased the property and seven years later in 2021, the church opened with a new 32,197 square ft building with 138 parking spaces. In 2020, um before the church opened, a sanitary sewer easement was um granted to realign offsite off-site gravity sewer to serve the church and the two new subdivisions. In 2023, a detached office building received their co at the church campus. And then in 2023, also 105 additional parking places were added to the church. The nature of the request is to um the request is to reszone property from agricultural to community business and they are profering some of the uses and eliminating some of those uses and we'll go over those in just a moment. Any additional uses for the church would be accessory to the primary use as a church. The current zoning does not allow for any additional expansion or growth which is why they are requesting the change. Currently, impervious surface limitations are limited to 30% of the site. Community business would allow for 75% of the site to be covered by imperous surfaces. And building coverage limitations are currently um 20% and if a change was granted, those would be allowed to be up to 40% of the site. Any proposed future use would require site plan approval and that would include a re-evaluation of parking minimums, landscaping, VOTE and environmental engineering review would take place. Um I would like to note that currently there are no plans for future

development. This is just in preparation for future growth. The applicant has profered that only the following byright uses be permitted if the resoning request is granted. Church, business or trade school, civil club, community center, conference or training center, daycare facility, office, administrative, professional, or business less than 3,000 square ft. A park and lighted public use public facility. school or school of special instruction and those would all be an accessory use to the primary use as a church. This is an existing um aerial of the site. You can see where there there's the church, the main church, the smaller office building, and you'll see all the parking including the added prop parking. And you can see on there that the storm water management pond is located. And you can see that the one entrance is located off of Price's Fork Road. The areas clouded in red are um are reserved for potential future growth or future expansion. Um, one of those is in the storm water management pond area and um that just means that it would have to be re-evaluated if any future development were to actually take place. On the left you have a a view from the Prices Fork entrance of the church campus and on the right is from the back of the property and you can see the the church sanctuary on the left and the smaller office building on the right. On the left is the entrance from Price's Fork, right? Prices Fork Road. And you

can see the right turn lane there coming into the property. On the right is the entrance from Price's Fork with the left turn lane coming from Blackburg. This area on the left is the front of the property that was clouded in red. That's closest to Price's Fork Road. um that is identified on the concept plan as potential future expansion. And then the the picture on the right is the area identified on that concept plan as potential future expansion. On the left is a picture of the parking area and on the right is the picture of the expanded parking area. The site does have one entrance from Crisis Fork Road. Turn lanes were required for initial development and were constructed at the time of development. Churches typically do not add significant traffic during normal peak weekday, morning and afternoon hours. And as mentioned before, any future expansion would be re-evaluated by VOTE for traffic impacts. At this time, VOTE takes no exception to the request to reszone the property. The site is served by public water and sewer. Sewer improvements were made in 2020. The site does not lie in a flow hazard area. The storm water management pond exists on the site, but any divisional additional development would require an additional review. And um it's worth noting that churches require no perimeter landscaping buffering adjacent to any other use group. So no further landscaping would be required. The difference between community business sign allowance and

agricultural sign allowance is um outlined here. As you can see, community business does allow for more signs, more square footage, and um a little bit taller, but the setbacks are the same. The comprehensive plan identifies the area as village expansion, further designated as traditional neighborhood design and open space, which typically provides opportunity to enhance the vitality of existing villages. It's usually adjacent to existing villages and is a mix of appropriately scaled residential, non-residential, and community uses would be anticipated. Here are some of the goals that would be met in the planning and land use portion of the comprehensive plan as well as some of the goals that would be met through the traditional neighborhood design and open space designations. The proposed zoning change is consistent with the goals set in the comprehensive plan. The profers eliminate many uses and any future use would be accessory to the church. The church is a byright use. Any proposed change would allow the church to grow and serve the needs of the community. VOTE takes no exception and the town of Blackburg has voiced no concerns. Therefore, staff is recommending approval of the request to reszone the property with the mentioned preferred conditions. All adjacent property owners were notified in accordance with county and state code. A public hearing sign was placed on Price's Fork Road to announce the hearing. Legal ads were properly run

in the local newspaper. And staff has received no comments from the public at this point, but there may be someone here tonight that might want to speak. We do have some signed up. I will take any questions and then um Steve Simonus is here with Ballser and Associates if you have questions for him. Miss Wright. Yes. Um just as a matter of curiosity, do you know what the traffic on Price's Fork is like on a Sunday morning? I do not. I haven't been over there on a Sunday morning. I have not either. I do not. Steve, Mr. Simonus may have some idea on some traffic numbers for you. We'll leave that question hanging for Mr. Simone. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Good evening, Steve Simone Balls and Associates, 80 College Street. Um, I'll go ahead and unhang your question, Mr. Foster. I don't have traffic numbers for Sundays. We've done a lot of work out on Prices Fork, but those are always during those peak hours in the morning and afternoon during the week. So, I can't speak to that, but I could certainly ask um, you know, the church leadership, you know, what they experience out there. Um, and follow just thinking about that that mob of parking spaces, right? Well, leaving more than arriving. Yeah. And and and I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, we didn't have the opportunity to work with the church when they first developed, but we did coordinate with them as we were working on the West Hill project and shared some dirt. They needed some dirt and um, we had some excess coming off. So, we helped them

through that process. as we were going through construction roughly the same time um as they were finishing up. And so we we've developed a relationship with the church and actually have some clients that go out there and one of our staff members does as well. So they approached us a couple years ago about doing the parking lot expansion and they actually had some ideas um about looking for some outdoor space here at the at this end of the church right here. As you enter into the to the sanctuary, there's a there's a big open hallway right here. And you enter into the sanctuary. They've got windows. It's a beautiful view looking out south towards towards West Hill. But as we talked about where they were with their imperous areas, um they've grown so much they needed the parking more than they wanted to use for, you know, kind of an outdoor patio space. So, we did the parking um the additional overflow parking for them. As part of that, we had to reanalyze the storm water management pond and make some adjustments to that pond to account for the additional imperous area that was proposed here that got us up to that 30%. Um, they reached back out again several months ago and said, "Hey, could you help us look at master planning what opportunities we might have on the church?" And we said, "We don't we don't have anything to master plan. You're you're kind of out of out of space, out of room. Um, there's nothing we can do with the zoning that you're in right now." So, we had a conversation with staff and talked through, you know, this was an opportunity that we could go through, reszone to the community business, which still allows the church as a as a buy, right, and then look at uh pulling out any of those other uses that could be considered um a conflict with the neighborhood and prices for in general. Um so, as as Miss Wright mentioned, we pulled out a lot of that and the ones we kept in would be ones that we thought could exist. Again, there's no plans for any of them, but if they had a mother's morning out program

or had a preschool or something small like that, it could be accessory to the church would not impact the church parking, you know, during Sundays. And then as as again, Miss Wright mentioned, we would have to run any of that if there's any change in use other than just a church. We'd have to run that by VOTE. Um, and just just to ensure the turn lanes that are out there that went in as part of uh the church and the preserve would be adequate for that. So again, no no plans for anything in the future, but they do they're growing. They want to continue to be able to grow and provide services to the community out there and their congregation. So that's the reason we're here before you. And I'd be happy to answer any questions. Any further questions, Mr. Simonus? Yes, sir. As a developer, it concerns me when we approve vast amounts of imperous surface in Montgomery County. I happen to love bluegrass and open pasture fields, but that's not not always possible, but there are options to imperous surfaces. Would you say a word about that as a developer and what what the state-of-the-art is now and why we would not consider um an alternative to a great asphalt parking lot? Well, the the you know, one really positive there are a lot of positive things about McGomery County, but one that that planning staff and engineering have agreed to for years is to give churches the ability to do overflow parking as gravel. So, not only does that help save the church some money on the asphalt, but it, you know, it keeps that. Now, we look at it from a storm water perspective on if you're if you're driving over that every single day, it does get compacted. So, we look at it the same as gravel, but you do get some of that infiltration with with gravel parking lots. So, that's one thing that the county has always done to

to help churches grow without overburdening them. Um, a lot of our localities around have, you know, storm water fees and I'm not sure if if Montgomery County has one or not, but basically every single family house and Christiansburg or Blackburg and and commercial um uses and churches too, churches are not exempt from this get basically it's an extra utility tax that's put on their utility bills based on the amount of impervious. So churches, you know, unfortunately get hammered pretty good, you know, on storm water fees for parking lots that are used. um you know once or twice a week. Um as far as other opportunities, there are permeable paving solutions that we've used in certain cases. Um we try not to encourage people just to park on grass is overflow because you get a bad storm, you get people parking in a rain and it's torn up and rudded causes erosion control. So we or erosion issues. So we do we do encourage churches or places that have those overflow concerns to to at least do gravel, but there are other opportunities. Um we can certainly look at Thank you. Um Mr. Simone's and maybe Miss Hopkins. Um following along on Mr. Miller's train of thought there and given the uses that were enumerated as a condition. Uh what happens when we get to the point or they get to the point at at some future level if they start talking about a parking garage deal with some of this impervious nature and to start putting things vertical rather than horizontal or surface. Yeah. I think Mr. Foster from from the church's standpoint, a parking if you just did a onelevel parking deck, one ramp up, you know, we figure those right now with costs, you're anywhere from the 15 to $18,000 per space range. So, from

a from a cost standpoint, I mean, we'd have to, this is just me speculating at this point, you'd have to be at a megaurch size, you know, the big mega churches you see on TV to start affording parking garages for a u for a church. Um, you know, realistically, even if we were to expand um, you know, in the future into these areas where we have storm water, that means our storm water is probably going to end up underground. So, there there's another several hundred,000 of infrastructure cost. So, it's not in the church's best interest, especially in the short term, to start paving over more than because everything's going to take cost and everything's going to going to have to be looked at that way from an infrastructure perspective on our storm water. you know, it the next parking space that's paved or the next outdoor patio that's put in, we'll have to go back and look at it. Any further further comments? Thank you, Steve. Thank you. And at this time, we'll open up the floor for public address for this public hearing. Please come forward, state your name and address, and you've got three minutes. Um, my name's Gregory Valentini, but I go by Ryan. My address is 2014 Coneflower, which if you look at the map, I'll show you kind of where it is. If you look towards the residential side, that yellow line, all of us are right there. I don't think any of us have a real concern with them expanding their congregation, right? But what we don't want them is in back directly in our backyards. I mean, we already have the parking lot there, which is fine, right? Pave it, do whatever you need to do, but to continue to expand into the property to where now you're disrupting

us is a different conversation for me. Um, up there in the top left, I don't see any issue with it. Right. The church is already there. It's already part of Price's Fork. No big deal. But the farther you reach downward, the more you start to get into the residential side. Not only that, you have the environmental thing with the storm water. I can get it can be done underground, right? But still, I don't want my kids looking at a parking lot every day. So, I mean, right now, they at least have some grass, right? Whether it's a retention pond or not, it's something. That's pretty much what I have on it. I mean, I'm all for them expanding and doing what they need to do. It just needs to be done in the right way. Can there be a compromise? I don't know. Thank you, sir. Thank you much. Good evening. My name is Cassandra. I also live on Ceoneflower Lane. Um, I'm a new returning have returned to the New River Valley after living in Northern Virginia for 30 years and was very excited to move back to the area and to pick this particular lot which has the view of the church but yet has a backyard, has a nice um hill to kind of break it up. Uh, there would be impact if the church expanded. there are already lights and most of us our bedrooms are on the back side of the of our building and you already get the sort of the ambient light from the lights that are on the church uh every evening. Not to mention um you would have more noise potentially and also um I'm concerned as well about the the

runoff from the parking lots, the runoff potentially from the building. Um, I think it'd be a real shame to uh expand that far back, especially when there seems to be other areas within their plot of land where they could potentially um expand. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you, ma'am. Would anyone else like to come forward? So, I will close the public address portion of this hearing and turn it over to the commissioners. Miss Wright, would you return to the slide that shows um uh parking areas and proposed and allowed space There's one that spells out percentages and so forth. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm not sure that tonight in this case is the time to discuss it, but at some time we really need to have an in-depth conversation before Montgomery County becomes Fairfax.

Having um arrived from Fairfax, I can agree with Mr. Miller's comments. In in in what way? Too many churches or or No, no, no. Impervious surfaces. Okay. And and view sheds and uh landscaping and Mhm. trees and shrubs and all that stuff. I think it would be more of a concern to me if it was further out in the county, but adjacent to Blackburg and the and the schools and all of the development right there. This is more of a urban feel to me. It's not it's not um um conservation area, so to speak. It used to be way out in the country. Mhm. for some of us certain age. Um I just look at that 75% for community business and I think that's a tremendous amount of pavement. Mhm. And I'm not directing that to the to the church or to any other organization for the moment, but I think that probably needs to I feel go into our work plan some some conversations over that. And we can't put any profers or any conditions for buffering because this is not an SUP. It's a reason. Correct. That is correct. You cannot conditions. Okay. Thank you.

I think that um as as we've seen other churches move from downtown further out because they need room for expansion and I think that um um we we have a relatively new church here. But if they reach the point where they need expansion, then we're almost forcing them to abandon this place and go further out and use up more farmland or more open land further out in order to get more space when um when they're already an area um surrounded by houses on 10 lots. you know, it's not like these houses are on grand vistas, you know, and and and a lot of these houses were built after the church was there. the church was there first and and so so I think that um that we may be going in the wrong direction if we like say force force these churches to move further out use up more land when they can stay right where they're at and utilize the land that they've got especially with it the proximity that they've got so close to the the um main population centers I think it's um a request that's um um I think it's a request that's uh very doable. So I do want to clarify too in response to your question about conditions for buffers. Um churches do not have any buffer requirements. However, the parking lot that they would have would require some landscaping um depending on how many parking spaces it is and and it would likely trigger it. It's more than I think 20 spaces. Um

then they require internal landscaping to the parking area and peripheral. Maybe we revisit the church buffering at some point too. Again, not a conversation for tonight, but I think that any facility that has occasional use, and that's certainly churches, we should consider an option that, you know, for weddings, funerals, revival, whatever draws lots of people that a gravel parking lot would be quite suitable for occasional use. And it's it's a huge difference between that and an imperous paved surface. Mhm. Well, I think excuse me some of the issue is that the um community business designation anticipates some form of of retail or commercial business. It's not really 75% impervious is a lot of space for a church. Um, and I think, you know, maybe we've got to question at some point how we deal with the the issue of churches. And Miss Hopkins, going back to your comment about the number of parking spaces and landscaping, does this suggest or require that the church should go back and start thinking about internal landscaping? They do have some internal landscaping on the the main paved parking area. So the reason we allow the gravel overflow

lot is because it exceeds the minimum parking requirements. So so we have certain parking requirements based on number of seats, pew length, that type of thing. They are exceeding that with their paved parking. So the overflow parking is is just that it's it's overflow. It's kind of bonus area. And so that's why we allowed that to be graveled. Mr. Chairman, I I also have a question kind of related back to the buffer issue. Um I mean obviously that is a concern where you have residential properties that are very very close literally right backing up to this property. And I understand that the code currently does have an exemption for churches for buffering requirements. But in this case, there's also accessory uses that are not specific to uh religious assembly that are going to be allowed by right through reszoning to community business. So, I'm wondering how that code provision is interpreted. If they decide to build a 30,000 square foot office building, would the church exemption for buffering take precedence over the accessory use for an office building which would also be allowed by right on the property under the CB zoning? So, I think a lot of that it I think it would depend um if the office building were built one, it has to be less than 3,000 square ft. Um, but let's say it's 2,000 square feet. Is it going to be used by the church? If it's used by the church offices, then it's a part of the church. Um, if they're renting it out for office space, then there there might be a way to get some buffering there. Um, I'm that would be an interpretation issue that that Jude would have to research and look into.

Increasingly, the public is asking about tax exemption for nonprofits and charitable purposes. So if a church builds a let's just call it a mega office building and their ministers or their choir directors or whatever use that building or portion of it u then what becomes taxexempt and I'm not sure whether that's uh proportioned uh and I realize it's not a real popular subject Uh but uh we we may be straining at some we may be straining at some other possibilities. You know what I'm saying? I mean, more than likely this is this is a church that needs a little more parking, maybe a little more office space. Um, and while we may not have as much control over the buffering, it's um we may not need the buffering because we're not building uh student housing, you know, with the volleyball courts and and uh um something that would be more of an impact than a than a church building. Well, I can envision a daycare facility or school in a hurry. Private school. Yes. And those two would be considered accessory to the church. To the church. Um I think the the big thing that comes in with these uses um all of a daycare, a church, a school facility, private school, that type of thing, that's all accessory to the church. it's considered part of the religious-based

organization. We so we would just treat it like a church. Um let's say something were to happen and 20 years from now the church would cease to exist and at that point someone wanted to open a daycare or a school or a con conference or training center. At that point they would have to do a change in use and that's when those buffer yards would kick in for those uses. Um so it would no longer fall under the church use. It would be a a separate standalone primary use of the property and it would require those buffer yards. A church in my neighborhood was built, I don't know, perhaps five or seven years ago. And uh it's very popular. It's extremely well lighted at night every night. Uh 365. and it has a parking lot for 400 cars. And I just wonder about the scale of what we're doing in Montgomery County. The parking lot you're talking about though, I'm assuming it has a storm water plan and and um meets the codes and so forth. I mean, it's not like it's uh um causing any abnormal adverse prop problems. uh without knowing anything about storm water engineering, it appears to have a very modest retention area, but that's for another conversation on another day. I

think I think what Mr. Miller is talking about is 400 parking spaces, not um whether it meets the technicalities of of uh the code and in this case it's 250 parking spaces, but it is right on top as was observed. it is right on top of uh West Hill or vice versa depending on which side of the line you're standing on. Mhm. And as we look at the the aerial view, I mean, when you look at the their houses and their driveways and their parking lots and out buildings, I'm seeing a lot of impervious on their side as well. I mean, it looks like we're we're getting real picky with the church when um when they're surrounded by a lot of development and I'm wondering I'm wondering why the animosity towards the German Do we have a motion? You want to think about it? What do you want to do? I'll make a motion to approve with conditions. I'll second. So, we have a motion and a second.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to remove myself from the vote because I'm a member of the church. Okay. So, it's also why I wasn't making comments. So, understand. Thank you. Any further discussion or concerns? Um, so we have a motion and a second for approval. Mr. Lincoln, if you'll pull the commission. Okay. Mr. Croll. Yes. Mr. Mr. Miller, yes. Simpkins, no. Mr. Waltz, yes. Mr. Lincolnis says yes. Vice Chair Foster, no. And Chair Rice, yes. Motion passes. Motion passed. Do we have a date? Do we have a date that goes forward? It is going forward May 12th. May 12th is when it's scheduled for the board of supervisors. And the third public hearing for tonight, like we spoke earlier, has been uh postponed by request of the applicant. And at this time, we have the actual public address portion of the meeting. If anyone would like to step forward and address the commission on any topic, you have three minutes and please give your name and address. Ryan Valentini, 2014, Conflower Lane. You made a lot of arguments up here about animosity towards the church. I don't think it's animosity towards the church at all. One. Secondly, you kept saying you don't think this is going to happen, but you can't guarantee it's not either. So, the the coin goes both ways. I get what you're coming from, but those

are people's backyards. And we just paved them. I mean, that's basically what we did. They can expand all they want to, but they shouldn't be able to expand in people's backyards. Way to go, McGomery County. My name is Terry Manuso. I also live on Conflower. I'm in fact back my house is on um is the one that is looks like it's being built in one of those pictures. Um when I built that house, I was told that there would be it would the church would stay as is. I understand that that was probably not the right thing for them to tell me, but um there's a lot of space it looks like in the front of the church and I don't know why they wouldn't consider putting their parking lot there instead of paving our backyards. Um yes, West Hill went in after the church was there, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the right of having a backyard. Um and also you brought up in the very beginning the fact of the traffic. I would like all of you to stand out there on a Sunday morning. There's one entrance into that lot. You're adding more parking into that um church is going to make it even worse. There's a roundabout that goes right into West Hills that extremely dangerous. Um the speed limit's 15 miles per hour. I can tell you right now 90% of the people don't follow that. And on Sunday morning, it is extremely hard to get out of West Hill. Would anyone else like to address the commission? Please come forward. Seeing none, I will close the

public address portion of this meeting. And um under old business, we don't have any items listed under o old business nor new business. So we will move into the liaison reports. And up first is Mr. King. Thank you, sir. And Mr. Ch Robbins not here. Uh Chris planning. I believe their meeting was cancelled so I don't uh have any report there. Radford Planning Commission. Miss Simpkins. No report. No report. Tourism council with Mr. Miller. No report. And parks and recreation. Mr. Workman. No report. No report. And a plan of director's report. I can't let you off that easy. Um just a reminder, you do have planning commissioners training next week for those of you that can attend. That will be here. We'll start at 5:30. Um I also have two exciting announcements. Um, one, we have hired a GIS analyst. Um, so Sarah Kahune with um, she's currently a student at Virginia Tech. She will be starting with us after the 1st of June. Um, so we are very excited to bring her on board and and add her to our team. We also completed some interviews recently and we are making an offer for a summer intern. Um, so that's exciting because they will be here to help us get through the next exciting announcement which is our village plan meetings will begin it looks like in June. Um, we're hoping to have two in June, two in July, and then we'll do um Shawwell Elliston, so two in August. Um, that that plans to be our our schedule. We are currently obtaining places to hold those within the villages. um we'll send out notices and um look forward to getting that next step accomplished. That's one step

closer to wrapping up the comprehensive plan. Um we are also starting to look, as you know, normally in June, we do a joint planning commission and board of supervisors meeting. So, we're starting to look at dates. I'm not sure if it'll be in June, um but we're starting to look at that. And one of the questions has come up if you all are acceptable to having it on a Monday evening um versus a Wednesday. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So, we will start to look at some dates and float some of those out and and see how that works and and get another joint meeting. We've already come up with several topics that we want to talk about um and and um discuss with with all of you. Of course, the comp plan is one of them and then some components of that. Um Justin and I did attend the national planning conference um that APA had. We um attended it recently and there was a lot of good sessions. So, we're going to be throwing some information out to you guys that we gathered from there and and sharing some of that with you. There of course was a lot lot lot of discussion on housing um and affordable housing and we learned quite a bit. So it was it was very beneficial. We that is my third national conference and I have to say it is by far the best one. Um normally when you go to those it's kind of a hit and miss if you get a session that that actually applies to the locality that you work in because we are more rural. Um, these conferences are held in big cities. This one was in Denver. Um, so when you go, you you tend to hear the bigger city side of things. And a lot of times with the last time Justin and I went to Philadelphia, we would find oursel in a session and then realize that it was totally totally not applicable to us. So we would try to hop over and catch another session that might be. And I can say that only happened to me once this time. And the

the last time in Philadelphia, it happened probably three or four times. Um, so it was it was a lot of information, a lot of new ideas um that you may see coming out of that. So it was it was a a good thing and and we appreciate the county letting us go. So I think that is all I have tonight. Um Mr. Chair, if I could ask Bri on the comp plan with the um village plan updates. Yes. the sequencing of when those are being done. Uh have you all revisited the timing on that and tried to tailor the ones where we're seeing more development activity and applications do those village plans first before some of the other ones that we're not necessarily seeing as much of the development? So, so normally um normally we would do that if we were doing one village plan at a time. Um but we do have the consultant working on those. So the main comprehensive plan and all the village plans will be drafted and released at one time. Okay. Um, so in our plan as of right now, knock on wood, is in June we will have prices for work in Reiner. And the consultants, Shelley's shaking her head, no. Reiner will be postponed. Okay. So, so we're going to have Prices Fork and then it'll either be Belleview or Plum Creek in June. Um and then we'll do the other two in July and then we'll have we'll have two in August. Um the the Elliston Lefayet and Shawsville. We we will likely do that kind of together um being that end of the county. That's how that will work. The

consultants are going to be helping us um they will be present for Prices. The plan had been for Prices Fork and Riner. Um, but definitely for Prices Fork and then staff will be handling most of the rest of those. I would urge consideration of postponing uh at least one or maybe more than one certainly Plum Creek toward the end and behind RER where there's significant activity. plus the fact uh finding a location in Plum Creek now that Jesus is closed might be symptomatic. So, believe it or not, um I think we actually have a location in Plum Creek. Um I I was a little shocked the last time we went through the comprehensive plan update in 2004 and we did the Plum Creek village plan, we had to hold their meeting here. Um, but I have reached out to a a business owner in the Plum Creek area and he thinks he can secure me a location. So, um, we've we've been communicating. All right. Anything else come before the commission? Entertain a motion. Motion to second. All those in favor signify saying I. All right.