P&z Meeting - Regular Meeting

It's being held in the commissioner's meeting room, Monizuma County Administrative offices, 109 West Maine, room 250, Cortez, Colorado. We're going to open with the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, Don, can we have roll call, please?

Commissioner Hernandez, here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Saunders here. Commissioner Nurggard here. Commissioner Lynch, here. Okay. Absent is Commissioner Doyle. Also present Don Haley and Jane Duncan of the County Planning Department. We're going to ask you to please silence your phones. Um, any important call, you can take them out in the foyer there. Has the uh planning and zoning commission reviewed the March Man meeting minutes? Yes. Yes.

Okay. And if so, could um I'd entertain a motion for approval or disapproval. Um, I'll make a motion to approve uh the minutes, March minutes. Okay, we have a motion. Second, please. I'll second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Call to the vote. Commissioner Hernandez, I. Commissioner Armstrong, I. Commissioner Saunders, abstain. Commissioner Negard, I. Commissioner Lynch. Hi.

Okay. No further discussion. The motion carried. It was 4 to one. Monizuma County Planning Commission welcomes you to this meeting. This board is comprised of members who are tasked to make recommendations to the board of county commissioners. We're not the decision makers. We encourage public comment after each permit. Persons speaking during the public comment will be limited to three minutes or depending on the number of people wishing to speak, it may be reduced at the discretion of the planning commission to allow all members of the public the opportunity to address their thoughts and concerns. When addressing to the commission, please come to the podium, turn on the mic, and state your name and address for the record prior to providing your comments. Comments to individual applicants are not permitted, and participants may not yield their time to others. I will be voting tonight. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Hernandez. Yep. Commissioner Armstrong, here. Commissioner Saunders here. Commissioner Nurgard here. Commissioner Lynch here.

Okay. Number one. Notice hereby given that the Monazuma County Planning and Zoning Commission will hold a public meeting for the purpose of reviewing and determining recommendations to be made to the Board of County Commissioners regarding a proposed subdivision amendment application to lots one and two of the Frank Spore subdivision. First Amendment submitted by Ron Sha Russell and Jonas and Ella Kim. Properties located at 25582 and 25640 Road Tolores, Colorado, consisting of 28.72 and 8.39 acres more or less. located west of road 26, south of road T, situated in section 14, township 37 north, range 16 west of the New Mexico Prime Meridian. This is a public hearing. Was a public notice published?

Yes, sir. Was evidence of letters to the adjoining neighbors and mineral owners submitted? Yes, sir. Was a sign posted? Yes, it was. Okay. Can we have the planning department findings, please?

Um, the two properties uh located at 25582 and 25640 road T Dellores are loc are lots one and two of the Franks subdivision first amended. The applicants are desirous of amending the subdivision. Um currently there is an ingress egress um uh easement through the kind property which is used by the Russells to access their property. The applicants are in agreement to move the property lines to terminate said easement. This will be swapping like acreage for like acreage. Um the surrounding properties consist of agriculture and residential uses. Um all infrastructure is in. They're not changing any of the um driveways or anything. So that's about it.

Okay. I'm sorry. Do we have the applicant here? They're both Come on down. I missed that part. You can come up if you want. Go. Yeah. Here to the table.

Okay. Okay. And if you can turn on your mics so that we can hear what you're saying. Um, you've heard what uh the department uh planning department findings were. Do you have anything to add to that? Not really. Okay.

Okay. We'll take it to to the commissioners for questions and comments. Anybody? I have a couple. Um the new property for Russell. This is going to allow access off of road T. Correct. The way it's designed. Okay. And there's going to be new no new county road permit because it is exists, right Jay?

Yes. What they're doing is um they're switching they're just swapping property for property. Um and so Russells are um getting the where the easement is currently will become real property for the Russells and um they are giving time property on the on the east side there. Okay.

It's just conveying property for property any other comments, commissioners? Okay, I will um open it for public comment. If we have anyone wishing to speak for or against, please come to the podium.

It's all you, Rodney. Okay. Seeing then we're going to close it and bring it back to the commissioners for a recommendation. A motion. Uh I'll make a motion to approve um the proposed subdivision amendment applicants to lot one and two of the Franks subdivision. Amendment one submitted by Ron and Sean Russell and Jonas and Ella Clim on the following. The proposed use is in conformity with the code. The proposed use shall not generate any significant adverse impacts or other public or other property or in the area. the public utilities and services are available or can be made available to support uses consistent with the proposed zoning. And I have no conditions.

Okay. Do I have a second? I'll second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. No further discussion. Call for the vote. Commissioner Hernandez, I. Commissioner Armstrong, I. Commissioner Saunders, I. Commissioner Nurggard. Hi, Commissioner Lynch. I Okay, motion carried. It was unanimous. Good luck. I'll be in I'll be in touch with you guys for the next steps.

That's what I like. Sweet and simple. Okay, we have roll call, please. Yep. That one was pretty easy. Commissioner Hernandez here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Saunders here. Commissioner Nurgard here. Commissioner Lynch here. Okay. We now have our additional discussion on the comprehensive plan revisions, plans, ideas for to resolve uh to resolve the blight issue discussion.

Let me start with a simpler discussion first. Um, this came up out of the, uh, county commissioner's public comment, um, description on verbiage and conduct yourself. Let me bring it up here. Yeah. You want me to read it? Yeah, let's read it into the record.

Okay. Um I had asked um the county attorney for advice um as to decorum in our meetings um for public decorum. Um and this is what he gave me um for our discussion. Pursuant to section 7 uh 7101C 3/6 of the Monzuma County Land Use Code, members of the public will now be given an opportunity to ask questions or comments upon the proposed development. Members of the public must abide by these rules of decorum during the public hearing and during public comment. Public comment should be directed towards the merits of the application and the requirements of the land use code. Each person will have three minutes to comment. Comments shall be made to the planning and zoning commission. Outbursts uh and interruptions from the audience, including uh clapping, booing, or laughing, are inappropriate. Please give other participants in the public hearing the respect that you ex you would expect to be given and which reflects the values of the citizens of Monizumi County.

So, this is now going to be something that I need to read. That would be up to you guys if you motion it and approve it and want us to add it to the statement at the beginning of the meeting.

So, I have one concern about how this is worded. Um, it's it's this part about giving an opportunity to ask questions, the public asking questions. Who's that? Who are those questions to? because there could be highly technical questions that this this board maybe doesn't want to answer on behalf of the county. So, we would just defer those to you and you would be on the spot to answer questions. Yeah, we could reward it that they can ask questions to the commission. You guys don't have to answer them.

You can relay them to the applicant. the applicant. I mean, if it's something beyond the scope of anything, then they may not get an answer, but that we might Yeah, we do that now. But it might we might want to clarify that that they can ask questions to the commission because they we don't want to give That's what I was worried about. We don't give the question and answer session. We usually put the squash on that if we see that. I think that the um county attorney was when he said that he was referring to um questions and comments from whoever is giving comment for you you guys.

Yeah. Um, but we need to clarify that and and then it's probably to where you can then relay to the applicant whether they want to answer that question or if they can answer that question when everybody's done with comment. Yes. And and again, we normally do that. Yes. After he's complete Yes. his comment, then we'll turn to the Yes. Yeah. I just want it clear like we're not sitting up here answering questions because we're just going to get a line of people just asking us questions. It's not going to become a town hall meeting where they answer, you know, ask questions and it goes back and forth, right? Um Okay.

But um he he also said that um for you guys to be able to discuss it and figure out what what kind of if you want this to be put in to record as is or you want modify it in a in a certain way with language. Well, the other thing that uh might need to be changed is it says each person will get three minutes, but sometimes we change that. Yeah. And shorten the time based on the number of people. Can we just let that because it's already um put in here, I can I can um

I can place whatever word wording and and verbage you want to be put in there. And if that is because it's already placed in here, I can put it on there that that it is at your discretion whether you want to make that. Well, we can use the wording that we have correctly. Going to be my suggestion. Just kind of personally I I see no reason for that. Personally, we we do it now. We we do it correctly. So what we have I think his His biggest um concern was the the the outburst the decorum aspect of it we have because we're not getting the

shut that down in the public needs to display toward this group. If we hear that, we just leave. Is it uh too far out of the box to have this typed up on a piece of paper uh with a title at the top saying for public commenters and have a pile of them in the back and if anybody's going to comment, they can actually see, you know, in including clapping, booing, or laughing and not have to remember what he what he said at the first of the meeting. Yeah, I mean I'm fine I'm fine with calling out the specific behaviors like

if if the commissioners feel like they're running or unable to run effective meetings and they want to be more specific than we are about it, I'm I'm fine with them like laying it out. But he's right, too. Like we already handle it. So the the thing is I don't think it's going to change the behavior. No. if they're I mean they're gonna clap, they're gonna make noises, whatever it and it's going to be hard as it always is hard for the chair to u tone that down sometimes um and and get control. The gavl is about our only enforcement because we don't have anybody that's going to start throwing people out,

right? So yeah, I mean worst case we have to call the sheriff and they send a deputy over. Yeah. or I go take a microphone. Mike has a good idea um to print that up, put it there so people have it as far as the the the um behavior because if it's right in front of them, you know, like you said, you read it at the beginning went over their heads. Yeah. Even if you put it at the signin sheet, read this first. They're not going to do anything but do what they want to do. And even if if it was available to take a copy, you can't make them take a copy.

No, we'll probably just be wasting paper. We could hire one of the one of the county employees to put them on their windshields when they're and who's to say what the values of the citizens are of Monazuma County. Yep. So, I mean, you can tell people what to do all day, but yeah, every situation is different. It's up to you guys. Well, again, I see no need for it.

I don't really either, but if the commissioners need us to say one way or the other, like I guess I don't have a huge problem with it either. you know, I wouldn't have come up with this myself when because I am um the notetaker and I have to listen to all this stuff. Whenever there is clamoring out there in the audience, I can't pay attention to what I need to pay attention to, right? And I can't hear what I need to hear. Right. I understand that. But like Ted said too, it's it's not going to stop. No, not gonna stop. Yeah. Yeah, once again we'd have to have some way to enforce it,

you know, and like you say, the reinforce might laugh for another five minutes and then say, "Okay, I guess we got to be quiet." That's going to be a hard one. It's up to you. Do we need a motion? Is that how this works? Um, you asked if we need a motion. Yeah. What are we being? We don't need a motion if we don't want to adopt it. If you don't change, you don't do anything. Okay. You just say you're not going to and that's it. Yeah. Or you make a motion and nobody seconds it and it does. Right. The consensus. Yep. We're good. We're good.

Do you not Do you not want any printouts out there either? No. Okay. No. Oh, no. Maybe we could have one posted on the podium there. If they read it, they read it. If they don't, they don't. Fair enough. Yeah, that's Yeah. Does that make sense? Put it there for this when they sign. And that's it. This is how we expect you to behave. That's it. That works. Okay. Next.

Blight and rubbish. So, I watched that meeting on the 23rd. I watched the video from where you marked told us the market and uh it sounded like um their the the plan they liked was that the attorney and you would get together and come up with some verbiage for us by next Thursday. I think they thought we meet on the I agree. They had all their dates wrong. Yeah, they were wrong. Nobody came and asked me in the office. Yeah. And I I saw you weren't in the audience. So,

and so I listened to it after the meeting was over and like, oh, I'm Well, here we are. So what we got yesterday came from the county attorney

and no I mean between him and me and probably most of you I don't want to recreate the wheel and start with a comp plan and spend two years of never ending getting nowhere. I think if we can do the simple rubbish ordinance that has some enforcement and added as either as an item in the threshold standards of our land use code or elaborate under trash or garbage or whatever that that's a simple way to cover it. But if they want to get into a whole new department, then that's a whole new level of

right government. And we don't have that now. I think last month you heard my position. Well, the ordinance is going to establish more needing more staff capacity. Like I'm not there's not me saying I don't agree with doing the ordinance. I think that is the cleanest way in my opinion. it. But what's the point if there's no T? Like are they going to put any money to it at all?

So the discussion that I had with Stephen was because we've we've had a couple of instance where um the health department's gone out and talked to them. They provided a dumpster. They provide tipping fees at the landfill. Um, so it's more of an educational deal versus heavy-handed government. Here's our ordinance and here's Johnny with his cap on and a little badge. Um, it just depends on the the degree that they would like to know what you guys are thinking before they have a public hearing to have the full discussion with the public.

Like I said, My my problem with the whole thing is how do we define what's what's rubbish and what isn't or what's you know I mean right like I said I've got I don't even want to tell you guys but I probably have 10 cars at my house right now. You know some of them are nice and some of them aren't so nice. I got one that I cut the roof off of last week. You know mad? It's kind of bad. Yeah. No. Were you mad? Mad?

No. No. No. I used it for another car. Well, that's what I'm saying is that, you know, with what I do, you know, working on the cars, I've got a different assortment of cars at all times. You know, I do haul them off, but as soon as I do, I bring three more in and you know, I got to haul them off. Pull up the Mesa County. So, how do we how are we going to define that? I understand when you have and I don't even know the people, but I'll use it for an example on the highway. We had the mobile home burned down and they started kind of tearing it down and then next thing you know they brought in three or four campers and they've got them sitting there and it's just, you know, it's destroyed.

I mean, I understand why people would consider that trash and all that. I get it. Okay. They probably don't have the funds to clean it up because basically you need to bring bulldozer in bulldoz. So, how do we I mean I I don't know how we're going to enforce it. So, the definitions are in the ordinance. So, I think that clears up some of those questions, but I'll just say that based on my experiences with enforcing things like this in the city, um the back stop to all of it is the legal system,

right? So, it's not that the county is just going to run ramshot and be able to go on people's property and it do these administrative warrants. They're going to have to go through legal process. And so, the judge is ultimately going to decide the merits of like what you're saying like, well, I've got these 10 cars, but I'm actually doing work on them. You have to make a compelling case and so will the county. So, well, and that's kind of what I'm think or what I'm saying is, you know, where do we come up with the rules on what they're going to chase. I mean, I know it says stuff in the ordinance, but it's going to be a catch 22 for a lot of people.

I mean, if if they showed up in my house tomorrow and says, you know, I got to you got to clean all this up, I would argue the point that eventually it'll all be cleaned up, you know, because I am trying to get out of the car deal and it I hauled like 15 cars off the belt. I made a whopping like 20 bucks a car, but I I did it. You know, I spent more on fuel to take them there because I I don't want my place to look like it does. Yeah, sure. But I you know, I also need to make a living. And you know, one of the other things that somebody said to me one day is my wife collects antiques. So, I have a whole 15 acres of old ass farm equipment, horserawn stuff and all that.

Oh, yeah. You know, and it's all, you know, I've landscaped with it and all that. But one of the neighbors says, "That's a bunch of trash. Why do you have that in your yard?" And it's like, well, okay, again, yard art. It's yard art. Yeah. I mean, she got a, you know, 1920 something woring machine sitting in the front yard. And I'm like, why do we have that? Well, I plant flowers in it. Well, I get it, but it's an old ass washing machine that needs to go to Bill. I go to the dump, but not to her. No. So, that's what I'm saying is I think there's a difference though between like potential hoarding of washing machines. I kid, but like something that actually does impact public health and safety.

No. and and I understand that. But what I'm saying is, you know, we've got if we write something up on this, I mean, we've got to be really clear on it as to what's what's going after. Like I said, I get, you know, the house trailer house that's burnt down and that that is a public hazard. I mean, there's Yeah.

trash. There's, you know, it's disgusting. There's other instances where I know people I had a neighbor that for three or four years they would literally go out their front door and throw their garbage in their front yard. Okay? And it built up and built up and built up and everybody complained about it and nobody ever did anything. Well, the house got repoed and then the bank came in and cleaned it all up, you know. So I well it's an indicator that some that a lot of times that that is indicating that something else is going on in the house right mental health issues financial issues like

it is an opportunity to create an intervention that's going to potentially alleviate like the back end. So I think there are a lot of benefits but like in what you're saying is how do we determine one of the things I sent to Don is like a scale you know is the fire department or emergency manager or someone from your team you have to put money to be able to do any of this but to have a rating scale to be like this is a 10 out of 10 fire hazard versus I really don't like looking at this stuff. Yeah. Or environmental. Correct.

Something like that. I mean, you know, I get it. I I know with people that, you know, they work on cars and stuff like that and they have 55gallon drums of used engine oil sitting in their backyard and it's like, guys, you got you can't do that. But again, nobody's enforcing it. So there we go. Okay, now we're on my my word enforcing. Yeah. Well, that's we we could stay here all night and try to manipulate this, but if the county is not going to put forth money to have a code enforcement officer to do any of this, why are we doing it?

Right. No, I agree. So, at the meeting, they they proposed the most likely or the best scenario, and it had to do with um looking at the uh comprehensive plan, seeing if there's a change there that's needed. If not, um working toward the ordinance and possibly editing the land use code. Um I reviewed the title 30 for the county in the statutes uh article 28 part one that covers us and uh the only two documents that is talked about for that we touch are the comprehensive plan and the land use code. We don't touch ordinances. Those are the commissioners. um what would and and and it looked like they had examples. I saw a few examples that were sent to me by email. Uh but they referred to those uh examples. What I'm thinking is they're going to choose the language they like out of those examples and they're willing to write an ordinance. All we have to do is refer to the ordinance in the land use code.

That's right. But we have to wait until the ordinance is put in place and then go back and put it in the len use code say you cannot have rubbish per ordinance such and such. And that's how it usually goes with codes is you pass ordinances and then you just make all these references and it's a little complicated to read it from a community perspective but that's how it works. Would that require the public input, Don, if it's an ordinance? Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. So they're they're going to have a public meeting no matter what. Whether they get the one by my house if you're going to pull off. It doesn't look like that. That's the burn pit. The house burned.

They took everything that burned and threw it in the backyard and then they lit on fire six times. Is this the one he was talking about? This one you can see. Oh, that's a highway. I know. I was going to bring Let's just pass the Totten Lake Road. That's a That's the one I was talking about. Yeah. So, they've been served with letters from me delivered by the DEA agent working with the district attorney's office to take him to court as a public nuisance. And that was two years ago. Well, somebody doesn't have any money or motivation, they're not going to do it. And that's what you have. It's back on the county. So, I mean,

the fire department's been out there six times. I would just, of course, that's me. I'd just circle it, protect the other properties, and burn the whole properties. Yeah. So, the the difference I think if I'm reading the ordinance correctly, the sample ones we have, which are basically the same thing, it's that administrative warrant action at the end of it. Um, where after all all the fines and everything and they're just not paying for it, then the county goes back to the court, ask for this warrant so that they can enter private property, which is a big deal. Mhm.

So, I'm hoping that the county will ex, you know, they'll have some discretion along the way in terms of like how much time they're giving people and all that stuff. But if the court says the county is being overbearing about it, then the county will just have to accept that. But if the administrative warrant is justified, then they go in, they clean it up for them and the applicant gets a lean on their house, right? So, I don't know. I feel like there's like, you know, a series of like enforcement actions you get to before you like bring the hammer down, so to speak. So, this is the property that went to court. They got fined $1,000 and then

yeah, legal took over and it all didn't happen. is uh had social services actions on them too. I mean it's it's not surprising. Exactly. Health and safety. So I mean that's So is this one on those? I mean this is a different there's people that next to our house that have these huge piles that it's all dried stuff. I mean, anything would catch fire. Okay. But they've taken our cats, two of them. So, I went over to ask for them back.

And in the window, the whole I mean, everything in the house is just stacked high. Trash all over the front. Yeah. So, I mean, what's happening outside if it is trash and rubbish and that kind of stuff, like I don't worry about cars and that kind of thing. like that's not a fire hazard, but not only will it impact all of us, but obviously like something is going on and then it becomes like an impact to law enforcement and EMS and and then if the county does intervene like how much exponentially higher is the cost of cleanup, you know, so well the idea is

Yeah. And I don't think we're here to determine that for them. I mean, I think we're like you said, we're responsible for the comp plan and the land use code. The hard decisions are with the commissioners. That's what the other commission they're elected for. Yeah. I mean, if they're looking for a recommendation, I mean, pass the ordinance and enforce it. That's my recommendation. Fully supportive. And then just prioritize where you want to focus time. I mean, just don't care about cars. Do you care about fire and environmental toxic slime? Environmental. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. I mean, they're going to have the county is going to have to meet that threshold of the definition of health, welfare, and safety, right? That meets We have that meets rubbish. Yeah. I mean the well I mean again the chapter five the chapter five junk trash and blight you know the first four the that's it right there is if you've got something that falls under one of those four categories then it's then it's trash it's blight well rubbish is in the statute blight isn't right so it's rubbish stay away from blight

so rubb rubb ish's definition covers blight. Okay. And blight is a is a general area. Yeah. And then with with blight in government, um you you have the right for condemnation. If you can fit blight, if it's a if it's just if it's unsightly and it's not a benefit to the community, then the the the government, which is the city, the town, whatever, they have condemnation powers to take care of that. It's a high bar. Well, not really. Not really. Well, if the Well, that's my opinion.

Yeah. Well, in San Diego, there was a there was a place called East Village, which was a very old old 1930s, 20s, houses, and so forth. The general view of it was pretty rund down. You already had some nice houses here and there, so forth. The city of San Diego condemned it under the blight rule and now you have Petco Park there. You have hotels, restaurants, everything in there. East Village now is the major contribution to the dollars of city of San Diego and the city of San Diego had the political will to do that

and it took it took coonas to do it. Yeah. But they did, you know, and again, once you condemn, as I'm sure you all know, now it's a court action. Court's going to tell you how much you're going to pay for it. But I get to have that property now. Right now, I get No, I'm hoping that whatever the commissioners decide to do about enforcement, it's a reflection of the community values as you stated, right? So, whatever they are. Well, I'm just saying like it's what you're gonna have to do. They're gonna have to make a decision to like go on to people's property and clean these things up. So, there were Don, there was one of I can't find it anymore.

And get my cats back. Get your cats back, too. Yeah. Well, I know. That's an interesting one. They took your cats. I want those back. There there was an an area in here that talked about t taking the property and not not putting a lean on it, but taking it and putting it on the market once it's cleaned up. And I we can do that. I think it wasn't one of these. I think it depends on to the extent of your ordinance. Okay. I can't find it now. Well, the the taking

I'm pretty sure if you get into an ordinance that's that heavy-handed, then you're are starting over with the comp plant because now you have taken away private property rights as the primary function in the county. There's a separate legal track for that.

So, Durango West one, you know, I mean, again, we're in Durango, but they and I don't know how they did it, but they came up with something in their uh covenants to where if you had garbage and trash in your yard, they would find you. And I want to say it was like either $100 a month or $1,000 a month. I don't remember the exact numbers, but they ended up with like seven or eight mobile homes with all the trash. They went in and cleaned them out. They ended up with the property. Then the subdivision built homes on them and sold. And I'm like, okay, how did they do that? Motivated HOA. Yeah, the HOA. It's an HOA. HOAs are powerful. Some real

Yeah. Well, I actually know the lady that, you know, but they can't condemn. Has can't condemn an intense personality that's motivated. Free H. Yeah. Okay. Anyway,

I do like this attractive nuisance thing, though. And it actually reminded me because I saw an article today or yesterday about somebody wanting to retire a bus on property and I'm like, "Huh?" Like, because there's plenty of buses that people bury and they're around town. They're all over the place. I'm like, "Actually, even if it sounds cute, it's kind of an attractive nuisance for kids and something that I would want my neighbors to do for the safety aspect of it. Like, oh, let's go in this at night and mess around. You just never know.

Um, so seeing that I'm like, that's the only thing I could see with the vehicles, like, oh, let's climb around in these and the roof's cut off and then, well, I mean, you know, I've had kids break windows out of cars. I mean, you know, kids are kids and Sure, but like what's the threshold of like protecting the environment and the people around us.

The Colorado state statute that they quote in like Mesa County quoted um of 30-15-41 um it it recognizes that they want to prevent fire hazards and for public health um nuisances. They want they wanted for the the health, welfare and safety of their people.

I think if you go in that direction versus like these the community image and private property value, this community would not be supportive of that because it's like let me do what I want. But health and safety are I think are a very different thing that people can get behind because I would say more people can align on values around that. Just nobody wants to be in a position to have to evacuate for a fire or I know a home that has probably 15 or 20 refrigerators, you know, sitting out in the field with the door

neighborhood with all these appliances. I'm just saying I No, unfortunately I jump in my truck and I go look for these places because that's where I get my parts. There you go. Sorry. I'm the guy. I'm that guy. There we go. We'll get you a hat. Are very hazardous. And I've never had that many. They are because kids can climb in them and they climb in them and they close the door and they can't get out and nobody knows that they're in there. Yeah. So that I mean that's a great example. Refrigerators and freezers are notorious for attracting. Absolutely. Yeah. You're dead. It closes. There's no way. No, there's no way to get out.

So, I don't think there's anything in these ordinances that talk about property values. So, there's a reason, right? Like lowering somebody's property value neighboring like I can't remember. One of the commissioners in that meeting pointed out like as a statutory county, we're responsible for health, safety, and welfare. So, as long as they stick to that Yep. And as long as they enforce rules that apply to that, it won't get challenged. You know, individual cases won't be as prone to being challenged in court, right? Because every time that somebody comes to us and is is like my property value, I mean, that's nobody has ever proved it. And you can't prove it. I mean, I'm sorry, but you can't.

Yeah. I mean, nobody has ever actually brought evidence of that. It it is a real a real um fact though and I I brought this up a couple of weeks ago. Highway 14 184 going to Manus um there was a big blue metal building years ago. I'm talking about eight 10 years ago. Yeah. I got from there bunch of them. I know exactly where. Yeah. That place looked like we have our code enforcement. Right. It basically was a wrecking yard. Yeah. And and I was looking at property across the street,

you know, so over 20 years. Yeah. And and I, you know, got up, looked at the property. This is a great piece. Got a nice pond on it. Look across and see that. Nope. Thank you. Turn walked away from it. No, I and and I understand that. But yeah, but then now it's nice and clean. And that Yeah. Now it's they've come in and Yeah. So yeah, it was it was kind of one of those things. They figured out that that was, you know, a lot of illegal stuff going on with that one. So, somebody got it cleaned up for whatever reason it was. And well, one of my buddies got his truck stolen and it ended up there. So, they started investigating. Okay.

And I was actually the one that found his truck. I drove by and I saw it in there and I'm like, I wonder if that's Andy's truck. And I went in. Sure enough, it was Andy's truck. So, I called him. Yeah. So, they got it shut down. Okay. see an indicator of something else. Yeah. Well, no, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, it's, you know, but I completely agree with like stay in the lane and Yeah. Is that And it makes sense. Is that what they're looking for from us is just adopt language similar to Mace County or whatever?

Yeah. So, we're all kind of in agreement to tell the BOCC, put an ordinance together. Yeah. Write it up and we'll put it in the land use code. Yeah. And both Delta and Mesa seem to be on a similar Yeah. They got some good stuff in here. Similar track. And And you don't want an ordinance to the degree that we're starting from ground zero with the change in a comp plan? No. No. No. Not at all. What was that? Option B. No. Option C, if they're going to do anything, or option A, which is do nothing. I guess the first step is creating the ordinance and then the budget that follows. Where's Haley?

Like I said, they're going to have an ordinance and then they're gonna have you want to run through your We don't have to. I just put together I'll send this out to everybody. Yeah. I just some thoughts from like a health and safety perspective. Yeah. Um well, but that's a good point. If the stuff's outside, is it's because it's is inside as bad and that flowed outside or what? Yeah.

Right. And you know, in communities where they're saying we have all these health issues, we are dealing with mental health issues, we're deal all of these things that the county also is responsible for for public health like A lot of the times like when our teams go out from a to do mental health response these are the kind of things that they see

and a lot of hoarding. I mean, people just it it accumulates and there's typically something else going on. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the county's responsible for that. But when these things go unattended and the worst that the person gets, the cost of those interventions are exponentially higher. you know, when you're doing the right things at the beginning versus the hundred times that you're going out to someone's health house, whether it's the sheriff, the public health department, whatever, like then you have multiple systems involved. Like the one you were just mentioning, you're saying social services. I I would imagine that there are probably at least four entities involved in a complexity like that. So, um I was just kind of thinking like if they do create something, I threw in a budget because I can't help it. Um

Right. Yeah. But even get some power. Yeah. I mean, like even if you don't staff it, having, you know, 200 grand a year or whatever, it's

it's a list. If you put $30 per person or county resident, I I would think that people could be like, "All right, you can spend my my $30 on this." Like, if it were me, yeah, go clean that up. Um but then also having a framework to assess so it's not totally um subjective so you can be like okay under emergency management Jim has the authority using this risk scale or under public health Bobby's team can do that like give them a tool rather than like my neighbors making me crazy they stole my cats. Yeah, because I mean this just invites neighbor on neighbor.

Yeah. Stuff. And one of one of the examples that I read like this community was getting a thousand calls a year or something like the impact to your time if you have somebody on a mission like Yeah.

Yeah. it the the drain on your resource just picking up the phone and answering that and every 10 minutes that you spend answering dumb questions like it's just a waste of time that you could be doing on something else. So, I don't think we think about that compound effect. Um, what you know, proactive engagement or giving the sheriff's office a tool or like the water sheriff like not to enforce but at least be able to make recommendations like, "Hey, I saw this property and I filled out this survey. I I think based on my professional opinion, whoever it is, that this might be somewhere that you want to spend your time." I don't know. But you got to put money. Everything costs money.

Everything. So, are they going to just ask the your finance department to put together like a basically what Haley did? Just I have no idea what they're going to do. Well, again, they should. They didn't even ask me when P&Z meets to have information to you. So the other problem that we have is I was down the hall working and I listen to it the next day and I'm like well yeah and I did it as a like a fiveyear plan because

not if it takes two years just to get something through the legal legal system like small wins will make a difference while you're working on some of the big stuff too. Um, but it just it has to have order. Well, yeah, at least I mean five years. But you with budgeting now and they at least have to have like a five or 10 year budget because it can't be like a one and done, right? No, it's not a a one one year deal and think you've got it licked. Yeah. No. No. Yeah. You pass the ordinance, you got to enforce it forever until you repeal it.

You You got this big accumulation. Yes, you're going to whittle it down, but it's still going to be there. Yeah. Well, and if you get into some of these ordinances, you start with legacy waste and you can't touch those. They're grandfathered in and you start with only new stuff. And then and so then you're never getting anywhere. County is legacy. Oh, at least legacy. I haven't even heard of that term. Is that really a thing? That's really a thing. That's really a thing.

But I think the not to like bring up a a big thing, but the weed department when they were like co-oping things, giving out equipment, all of those things. Like I was under the impression that people took advantage of that. Like let us help you with the cost. And I realize it was grant funded and things like that, but I mean it is a good example of how if you have the things to help with the cleanup, people might be more apt to do it than like you have a $1,000 fine and you have to bring in a $1,000 a week dumpster. I don't know how much dumpster cost, but Oh, yeah. That's about what they cost. Yeah, they're expensive. So,

I mean, they're not going to do that. So even 50 grand a year to help with some of these things would probably make a good dent if like they can help these people because if they're struggling to buy food they are not going to do this. Exactly. I agree. And that's a good way to to you know to to start have incentives you know. Okay. Yeah. We're going to give you the dumpster. We're going to wave the tipping fee. You got to put the stuff in there. Yeah. That's there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. I mean,

I've seen I've seen similar programs in different places again because I'm from Durango and all that. Durango S1 used to have they called it spring cleanup and they brought in four or five of the great big dumpsters and set them right by my shop. Okay. Well, I took advantage of it. I guarantee it. But the neighborhood, it wasn't the people of the neighborhood. It was people that heard they were there. And the next thing you know, you got a stream of about 150 cars and trucks pulling in. They had those things filled up in about 10 minutes. Oh, wow.

I mean, they were done. And so they had to hire or, you know, one of the members or whatever was there telling people turning them away. So they basically it became instead of you know a community cleanup it became everybody around clean up and you got Hasperis right there and you got all these other towns. Something else got cleaned up. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Mus has been doing this for years. Something else got cleaned up. And they finally a couple years ago they finally just had to start checking IDs, right? because the taxpayers in Mus were paying for these dumpsters and they were they kept increasing the number of dumpsters every time they did it.

Well, that's the way that's the way it started there. I said the first year they did it, they had two of them. Yeah. Yeah. And they brought them out and like I said, they dumped them off in in my shop or in my driveway. And so the first thing I did was get up about 6 when they dumped them and I put a couple of car frames in it, you know, cuz they're big. And then as soon as I did that, I got my butt chewed by them, you know, and I'm like, "Hey, I'm a resident, you know, I'm cleaning up my trash." "Well, you can't put that in there." I'm like, "Why?" "Well, the truck couldn't even hardly pick it up because of all the weight you put in there." And I'm like, "Should have thought of that." Well, they did. Show me where it says no frames.

Yeah, I just cleaned out my grandma's house. A complete hoarder situation. Like, it is so much work. It's so physically taxing. It's incredibly expensive. Like $5,000 and multiple days. Like a lot of our community is aging as well. They can't do this stuff themselves. So, got to put a carrot out there. if they want to make it happen. Yeah. I mean, you can do two things at the same time, right? So, yeah, absolutely.

And we try like our code enforcement guys like there's not a lot of like programs out there to help people, but you know, like senior services has cleanup stuff. So, for people that it's applicable for, they have something to give people and like, "Hey, have you thought of seeing if these folks can help you?" Yeah. Kind of the same idea. We called like every department in Illinois and could not get any help. So I would imagine other people who don't know how to do the research, they're like, I I can't. Yeah.

So I mean that's where the county can step in and really help some people in in a bad way and maybe make some significant improvements even a small bit at a time. Yeah. Don, if somebody gets caught dumping trash along a road, um, do you know what the fine is for that? Um, I think it's just a $100 fine from the sheriff's department.

Okay. If the road and bridge catches you, they will report you and most of the times you got to go, the sheriff will contact you and you'll go back and clean it up. Did you find someone? No, I'm just I'm I'm thinking about prevention on another level. Sure. Well, you see those signs on the road, you know, trash dumping is going to cut. It's like a $100 fine, I believe. Whatever it is. I think if it's if it's along the state highway, it's quite a bit more.

I'm sure. And again, I think, you know, a lot of that, too, this maybe the reason we have a lot of this trash around is because people can't afford it. Um, you know, I've hauled trash to the dump forever and used to I've got a dump trailer and it used to cost me $25 to dump it. Now it's $125, you know, which, you know, isn't a lot because I can haul a lot of garbage off, but for somebody that's has no money, I mean, how are they going to do it? They're going to pay that much easier to go find an Aoya, you know, and throw it in there. I mean, we all see it or in the yard

or in their yard. Well, yeah. A lot of them are just the yard. All right. Well, have we Okay, we giving them what we're supposed to be as far as I know. All right. Anything else? I move to adjourn. Second. Oh. Um, this is my last meeting. Um, I sent an email to Don. I I my kid has Thursday night stuff and I just don't want to miss it and work is nuts. So, I just feel like I keep bailing on you guys and don't really want to continue to put that you in that position. So, yeah, six years.

Yeah, you've done your duty. Thanks for Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for continuing the blight fight. But um yeah, I told Don if if needed I can do maybe another month, but I think hopefully Mike can back you guys up. Yeah. Is that how that'll work? If he wants to, he'll move into that seat. So Mike, we'll check with Mike Doyle if he wants to move in as a permanent. Yeah. And then he'll get the alterc advertising for an alternate run over if if it's possible. No longer in medical. Yeah. Restarted soccer.

I'd like to sit in if they do an interview. And I think I think when I was good at this, mom. When I was interviewed, I think uh Russo sat in. How old is she? Five. Yeah. I think he did. And he was sher at the time. Dad's at soccer with her now and then he has golf league. So, it's going to be All right, we have a we have a motion by Commissioner Lynch. Yep. And a second. And a second. The second you me. Yeah. Seven on the dot. Okay. Thanks, guys. We'll miss you. Thank you, Ay. You can always reapply when you're Oh, thank you so much.

Thank you so much. A thanks. Take your official flag. Put in my office. All right. I don't even have a name tag on my office where I'm drunk. Maybe I'll put this one up. Maybe you can take a home and burn it.