City Council - Regular Meeting

Call the city council work session to order. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Vining excused. Gerainy here. Stringham here. Felder here. Still here. Mayor Clark here. As I look for a piece of paper here. Okay, we're here for our work session. Um, manager Robinson. Oh, wait. We have public comment first. Sorry. So, uh, we start with public comment. Uh, any comments from those present here this evening regarding this work session? We have, um, three items. Seeing no public comment. Uh, clerk. The next item, please.

The next item is item 5746, review of ebicycle recommendations by the ped bicycle and pedestrian trail advisory committee. Thank you, man.

Robinson. uh Director Cochran will uh has created a presentation as we continue our conversations on uh developing the proper policy uh that we'd like to implement here in the city in regarding the use of ebikes. And I know that uh Director Cochran and and Director Tolstead have worked together to uh do some research and and this has gone before the um the bicycle and pedestrian trail advisory committee and we're be sharing you with you th those thoughts during this presentation. Thank you Dr.

Cochran. Good evening honorable mayor, city council clerk treasurer Lavoy. Um so this is a continuation of a discussion that we held pre uh toward the middle or end of last year about um ebikes and the city policies that we have on file uh related to ebikes and an examination of whether any of those needed to be revised or looked at. Um, and so, uh, you may recall the city council established the bicycle and pedestrian trail advisory committee, uh, to advise city council on matters pertaining to our trail network, but also, um, pedestrian and bicycle circulation, non-motorized circulation throughout the city. Um, following the conversation that we had last year, um, this was brought, uh, to the bicycle and pedestrian trail advisory committee for them to discuss. And I will say um I know Peter Fails is in the audience this evening, a member of that committee and Matt Vanisacker and Lucy Foron with Mannequin Smith helping to uh support those discussions that they had for several months. um that led to uh the recommendations that we're going to review with you tonight for your feedback and discussion uh as director Tolstead and I and uh administration work uh to look at uh whether we need to change or modify any of the policies that we have in place here at the city. So, uh, just to flash back a little bit of the conversation that we had, uh, the state and, uh, in some cases federal regulations, um, that are consistent throughout the city that we have to take a look at, uh, in as part of this discussion is the Michigan Vehicle Code, which talks about the usage of bicycles on, uh, roadways. And then the city's uh, ordinance chapter 199, which is uh, currently titled bicycle, skateboard, and skates. Um, we also have the park rules and regulations which are not which are not technically an ordinance but a policy

document that you approve. Um, and of course we have an ordinance that uh handles violations of the park rules and whatnot but um there is an item in the park rules that that pertains to the usage of non-motorized vehicles. Um and then because we also share uh public property with the state and federal uh government and also the county uh in the city that have uh connect connection to our trail network. Uh both Sterling State Park and the River RA National Battlefield Park in their trail network. Uh we took a look made some outreach to them and looked at asked them what their regulations are. um because we frequently talk about when you're on our trails through the city, oftentimes you don't know whether where the property boundaries are and where the changes are. And so, uh we looked at uh this discussion in the lens of somebody who is using the trails, um and their uh easiest consistent understanding of of regulations as they're uh moving throughout the city. So, the Michigan Vehicle Code, this is the state law um that governs uh ebikes. Uh as a reminder, there are three classes, a class one, a class 2, and a class three. Um class one bikes are current all three are allowed on the road. Um just as any other bike uh and vehicle is allowed on the road. um related to linear pave trails, which would be like our rural trail or the heritage trail. Um class one bikes are allowed by the state uh to be on uh those paved trails, but we do have the opportunity to regulate and set up uh rules pertaining to the usage. Um, class two and class three are not automatically allowed on uh, paved linear trails unless it's authorized by local authority who governs those trails. So, in our case, we're talking

about um, our trails. So, yes, automatically for a class one ebike, no, unless you're allowed by local authority for class 2 and three on natural surface trails. So, uh, this we're thinking about the perimeter trail at Mson Park, the stone chip pa, uh, trail that goes around Mson that is not paved. Um, our trail network, the red and the the orange trail and the prairie trail in northern Mson Park. That's what we're talking about here. Um, ebikes are not allowed uh automatically on for class one and class 2 on those types of trails unless the local authority authorizes it. um in class 3 are not allowed uh on those sorts of trails. And then on motorized natural surface trails such as ORB trails, snowmobile trails um all according to the state, all ebikes are allowed on any of those trails. And then uh there is a component in the Michigan Vehicle Code uh and we talked about this at the last presentation that if the local authority is going to promulgate or create any rules related to the use of ebikes, there must be a public hearing uh on that matter. So any questions related to this

questions? Uh um Deb, so what's the difference between two? Yes. A class one um is a motorized uh pedal assist. A class two and it has a lower speed limit. A class two um is propelled and you don't necessarily need to pedal to make it run. And a class 3 is the same but it has a higher speed uh limit. And I forget what those are right off the top of my head. 20 and 28 I believe. 25. 28 is class three. Three and 20 is two. Okay. Okay. I have a question.

Class one requires a pedal assist, but it helps you move faster. A class two or three, you don't have to pedal in order for it to go. Are you ready? Thank you, Andrew. Sorry.

No. Um, I would be interested as well in seeing the current allowances for non motorized bicycles because I know that we have and I know that that's maybe not relevant to the ebike discussion that we're having. But I feel like a lot of the complaints that we do receive in the city about bikes being where they shouldn't aren't necessarily complaints about ebikes. They're complaints about regular old bicycles. Um, and so it would be uh it would be helpful for us, I think, to to see where um traditional bikes are and are not allowed under the current policy. Good point.

Okay, Michelle,

how would we tell the general public about the rules and regulations? How would we educate them? So that's uh a little bit further in the presentation. So these are we're just reviewing right now the state law that's established that's in place right now. Um and then we'll get into what are the other um regulations, what are ours, what are other jurisdictions doing. And just a reminder too, um the state law does require every ebike manufacturer to put a particular placard on the bike. and it's illegal to tamper with that bike. So to understand the difference of what a class one, class 2, class 3, um the manufacturer is required to put an indicator on it's a sticker about that big uh on the bike itself and you can't change it. So if I have a class 3 and I want to make somebody think I've got a class one, I can't tamper with that. Um that's part of the state law. So, the city, we also um as part of our ordinances, we do prohibit um the riding of bicycles throughout uh certain roads in the downtown. Um and on this map, you'll see the roads that are uh colored in red. Um not quite that pale red, but the brighter red. Um so, Monroe Street from Elm to Second Street. Uh First Street, sorry. No, second first street, sorry. Monroe uh from Elm to First Street and then also uh Front Street and First Street, Washington Street uh in areas of First Street is where it's prohibited. Also the Mcome Street Bridge from Elm to Front Street as well. Um and so both bridges and the the intent behind that is safety as you're crossing the bridge um and making sure that um

all users are crossing the bridge safely on the sidewalk. Um and then the riverwalk uh in the area from the Monroe Street Bridge to the Martin Luther King Bridge and then the Martin Luther King Bridge, you're also required to walk your bike. Um, and so those are the the areas where it is signed right now. And right now, uh, you're not allowed to ride your bike, skateboard, or rollerblade or roller skate on the sidewalks in these areas. So, I have a question. Maybe this is part of Andrew's question. Is is is this these locations where you you walk your wheels? Correct. Yes. Yep. Anything that's red here? Yep.

Yellow dots. The yellow dots, those are uh signage and also the bike racks inventory. Okay. Thank you. I was going to look at Andrew. Andrew, you have probably a followup because this is just one segment of what you're asking if I'm if I understand. Correct. Okay. because it um you could think throughout the city and whether it be Elm Street, Front Street, um pick the street, um use of regular bicycle, traditional bicycles that and then were also permitted on trails not in the downtown

like the world trail and the Heritage Trail, the the trails out at Mudson. Correct. So right now we don't have any regulations in terms of the usage of bikes whether traditional or ebikes uh on anywhere outside of just this area. So the park rules, we'll get into that because it does talk about the trail network and the trail usage. Um but in the sidewalks throughout the neighborhood or otherwise or on the streets, bikes are are allowed permitted right now because we don't prohibit them.

Yeah. So any non-motorized um wheeled vehicle would be permitted on any sidewalk or trail or anything anywhere else in the city except for this particular location and if I read ahead in the packet as well and I think I know that we're getting there that that when we talk about walk your wheels we're also talking about skateboards and roller skates and y when we say scooters I know that there's the the two- wheeled thing with the bar where you stand up and then there is a mobility assistance Yeah. Mechanism to help our our um elderly and disabled residents as well. And I think those are two different things. I think it's going to be important to make the distinction between those.

Yeah. It's more the recreational scooter than the ADA y accessibility assistance. Okay.

So, now we're getting into what the recommendations were from the trail advisory commission. And uh adding on to that point uh so chapter 199 as I mentioned is the ordinance that pertains to bicycles, skateboards uh and other wheeled devices throughout the city. Um there are a few definitions uh that the committee is recommending to be added to that. Um just for clarity, what is the roadway and what is a trailway? Um and you'll see some proposed definitions there. A sidewalk. Um uh a proposed definition there. And then yes, here's the the definition of an ebike and these are the different classes uh from this uh the state of Michigan. So, um it does talk about uh the class one, class 2, and class 3, 28 m an hour. And then escooter, uh a definition of an e- scooter and then also uh micromobility device because as we get into the recommended revisions, uh you'll see these terms used throughout. And so it's important uh just for that point, Councilman Felder, that the the definitions are defined as you're reading the ordinance just like any of our other ordinances.

So right now, um section 199-3 uh is titled use of a roadway. Um and what you'll see here in black is the existing language and then in red is the additional language. So right now it just talks about operating a bicycle upon a roadway. Um riding in single file file except for on paths or part of uh roadways designated for the exclusive use of bicycles and adding in uh ebikes, e- scooters and uh similar micromobility devices. And then uh 199-4 talks about the use of a bicycle not using one of those devices without the consent of the owner. Um and uh that's the title and then it goes on to make the the statement much the same uh as part of that section. Uh chapter 199- or section 199-9 talks about the use of skateboards. Um, and this is really just generalizing the language to say uh that it can't be operated. Instead of saying in a side on a sidewalk, just saying any place where it's posted, you can't use it. And so, um, wherever there's signage that prohibits it, that wouldn't be allowed, not just on the the sidewalk. Okay. Now we get into a new section 199-10 uh which is the use of those motorized micro mobility devices. Um and so there's four uh four subsections that are proposed to be added. Uh and that's the first one basically says you can't attach the uh device to another vehicle. So, you can't uh pull somebody on an ebike or an e- scooter behind another vehicle, whether that's a car or

otherwise. Um, and then also uh wherever signs are prohibited, the usage would be prohibited. So, pretty straightforward. It doesn't get into in a recommendation of where exactly that should be or would be. Um, but more just saying anywhere there's a sign as determined by the city, uh, it would not be allowed. And then uh letter C gets into some of the etiquette that we've talked about. So uh users who are on e-roller blades, ebikes, uh roller skates or other such wheeled devices shall yield the right of way to all pedestrians. Um in addition to yielding when passing pedestrians, operators must audibly signal when passing another operator or pedestrian. So again, that etiquette. If you're coming up and you're going to pass somebody, you have to audibly um either announce yourself, ring a bell, but somehow indicate that you're going to be passing them. Uh and then the letter D talks about uh posted speed limits, whether it's on a roadway or a trailway, regardless of the leveler classification. So whether you're on a traditional bike, a class one, a class 2, or a class 3, if there's a posted speed limit, you have to follow it. And if there is no posted speed limit, then 10 miles an hour is the maximum speed there. Questions so far? The first several are pretty generic, but this is where we get into some of the more uh regulations. Don't see any at this time.

Okay, that's the ordinance uh changes. So, next is the park regulations. So, right now, um, in park regulation number nine, which it is a violation of an ordinance if you violate our park rules, but again, it's not every time the park rules are revised, we don't have to have a public hearing and and amend an ordinance. It just comes before you for final adoption. Um so we have language uh that wheeled vehicles which before included uh ebikes and scooters are many bikes, dirt bikes, four-wheelers, and snowmobiles must remain on a designated paved roadway and parking lots at all times. And so the uh the change that's recommended there is to only leave it at automobiles and other designated recreation vehicles. And then update at the end that ebikes, e- scooters, rollerblades, uh roller skates, and other micromobility shall be permitted on paved trailways so long as the operator doesn't exceed posted speed limits. Um, which again repeating the l the language for consistency, if it's not posted, then the speed limit is 10 miles an hour. So, it's allowing them on the trails and other places, but putting again that etiquette into place, top speed, because we are mixing pedestrians and uh wheeled device users here.

So, I have a question just to make sure I understand. Yeah. Says not does not exceed the um posted speed limits and and then if it's not posted, it's to be known that it's 10 miles. Yeah. So, yep. Okay. Is there going to be somewhere that says that? Um there can be. Yes. I I'm just asking a question. I'm trying to I I mean I whether I'm a resident or I come into town and I'm going along and and how would how do I know um just trying to think it through

a lot of so I think a lot of it is going to come down to the education and signage plan that we put together for whatever council decides to do

uh moving forward. Certainly, we can't. It would be difficult because if we're talking about sidewalks in in other places throughout the city, we don't have uh bike or um non-mo right now. We don't have non-motorized uh speed limit signs throughout the city. Uh if we're only talking about the trails, I think we need to come up with a robust signage plan for all of our trails. And the reason uh the committee recommended leaving it at posted speed limits, if you remember when we had Bird electric scooters in the city for a short time, we worked with uh them to set a different speed limit downtown and in other areas of the city than throughout the rest of the city. Um so downtown we were able to reduce the speed limit. So in some places uh you know if we have thinking about the world trail in the area of Veterans Park, we have a bike lane on the roadway and we have the whirl trailway. Um those may be instances if somebody is riding an ebike on the roadway the speed limit may be higher than if we're going to allow a class one or other all ebikes on the world trail then we would leave it set it at 10 m an hour. So, the intent here was not to nail us down that every trail has to be 10 miles an hour, um, but to help develop a a comprehensive plan of where bikes are allowed. Um, I joked with Director Tolstead today, uh, certainly if Lance Armstrong were riding a traditional bike on the World Trail, he could well be going above 28 m an hour. Um, and so we're we're thinking about uh wheeled devices of all types blending with pedestrians uh and bikes on our trails uh that are separate from their old way. If that makes sense. Andrew,

just to clarify, um, if you're in an if you're in an ebike, the speed limit and you're in a bike lane on the roadway, the speed limit is whatever the speed limit is for that road, unless council sets it otherwise. Yeah.

So, that's the recommended park regulation change. A couple other items that they brought up, um, we mentioned perhaps a reduced speed limit the closer you get downtown. Um, and then certainly ample signage pertaining to speed and trail etiquette across across the entire city. Um, we've already had some preliminary discussions thinking about the Heritage Trail, the World Trail. Um, this summer we're going to be breaking ground on the new loop trail uh that will go from Front to Seventh Street and the trail, the sign plan that we're going to have to put together for that. um and working with our communications office and public safety to make sure they're consistent no matter what trail you're on. Um so that the uh the user will know from trail to trail that it's all the same. Um, and then there was consideration about downtown and the on uh on sidewalk riding, considering for discussion allowing bicycles on the sidewalks until on street infrastructure is installed. And thinking about a couple things that could uh be part of that conversation is to consider language uh and signage prohibiting uh cyclists from riding within x number of feet in front of a building further out from the building front door. um install traffic calming measures. We've had a lot of conversation about this before about planters and bike racks and other things that make it a little harder uh to navigate closer to the building and some of those natural speed impediments that uh you can put into place. Um and then install delineating features and inclusion of additional planters. And we have a an example on the left here for a wider sidewalk. uh some of the the markings that you can do on a sidewalk or a trail that uh help separate out the wheeled devices from pedestrians. And so uh these were just uh a few items that the trail committee uh wanted to bring forward at least for discussion and

consideration, not necessarily a recommendation either way. Andrew,

I would have I would want to make sure that if we were to allow bicycles on sidewalks until such infrastructure was in place to allow them to be more hospitably on the streets that we that it's congruent with our other policies like our streetscape designs. We looked at a um the plans for the Altrusa Park project last week and part of that is uh sort of a design feature that goes out on the sidewalk almost to prevent the ability from cyclists to be able to we've almost built in, you know, obstacles on the sidewalks because we're trying to prevent that thing like benches and trees and and trash cans. um so that the the bicycles are not so that it's not easy for them to be on the sidewalks. We would we would just need to make sure that those two policies are congruent if we were to take that

uh that step. So Kathy,

I've thought about the riding downtown quite a bit because I agree it is dangerous, but I also think about us trying to make our downtown vibrant. And so if I had a young family and I had my six and eight-year-old on a bike and I wanted to go downtown for some ice cream, there is no way I'm going to let them ride on the road. And so I struggle with that. So I'm glad that we have a conversation to try to figure out how to do it. um the signage downtown, people don't even know when I I didn't know when we were supposed to start or stop on the road. So, I try to avoid it, but not everybody can and we don't want people to. So, that those are my thoughts for the moment. So, what I see that you you said downtown, but I think you know there's the downtown and there's the central business district and uh I'm sure it's somewhere here. This is is this No, this is the complete central business district, but it's very close to what that looks like. Mhm.

Because I think the central business district has some additional like Monroe Street I think is goes to third. Yep. Right. So I I try to align things to what may be known because if you say you can ride here you central business district what's that mean to people? Some may not even understand uh what those boundaries may be. Um and I'm not sure the central business districts uh kept up with uh some of the things with the the bridge uh Martin Luther King Bridge. for others. So,

it's um though I see I I see two different um items there. And yes, I know um walking your wheels and not riding is is going to be contrary to people that want to ride. So, how how far and what's that distance and and and the reason or purpose? Um and you know, it gets tight downtown with people walking and people stepping out of the stores. I think the some of the store owners have assisted in that by putting the little planters outside their door cuz when a person steps out they're not stepping into a pathway whether it be somebody running, walking or you know whatever it might be or a bike ebike. So um that's helping but I just try to think how do we make that work? And if you if I may, uh if if you look closely at this map where you see there is no riding allowed on the sidewalks, you'll notice the characteristics of the buildings that have frontage along those routes. And it is those ones that open directly onto the sidewalk uh and the door doorways open right on onto the sidewalk. Um, and so the streets like First Street from uh Harrison to Monroe Street, the the density of the buildings is not so thick. And so that's why they're they're allowed on the sidewalks in those areas. One consideration to think about in these areas is the placement of bike racks. So that if you are coming down with your family and you want to visit one of the buildings or the businesses that are within that area right now that are red, um to have plenty of ample parking for your bicycle so that you can access it but then potentially walk into those areas rather than ride your bike into those areas because it is uh rather limited. It looks like the longest stretch is along Front Street from Harrison to Mcome Street. um uh given it's about four

blocks and so still showing and permitting plenty of circulation around this area to get to the closest point where you're trying to get to uh relatively easy, but also encouraging people to either walk your wheels to get to your location along those four blocks or um park your bike and we'll have ample opportunities for that to walk in in uh that area. You might have said this already and I just think about the uh the river walk from LC Monroe Street down to soldiers and sailors. That's permissible. It is permitted right now. Yeah.

For bicyclists. Correct. And because we don't have anything. We don't have anything. So anything's permitted currently. Right.

Okay. Thank you. So, just a a couple other for your reference. The county loop trail. So, the new trail that's um not open, although plenty of people are currently using it uh since last fall. Uh substantial completion. We reached out to the county. Right now, they don't have any regulations in place for that trail. Um but they are uh interested if what actions the city's going to take given the connectivity uh at multiple points. And so right now, if they do not enact anything when that finally opens, and I know a large part of the reason it's not open is because of the rail crossing at 7th Street, um it's not completely all done yet. Um right now, you would follow uh where the red arrows are, where class ones would be allowed. Um but class two are not permitted according to the Michigan Vehicle Code unless the county acts or u adopts some regulation that says they're allowed. So, if that were to open today with no new rules that the county pass, you would only be allowed to walk uh ride a traditional bike or ride a class one ebike. Class 2s and class 3es would not be permitted by state law, but I know they want to they will be enacting something. Uh Michigan DNR. Uh so the state park uh once you get past um Detroit Avenue if you're on the Heritage Trail heading out to the state park and within the state park uh class one ebikes are allowed only on uh the paved trails um where traditional bikes are also allowed. Uh there's certain areas where ebikes are not allowed uh but they're not they don't impact the city. Uh, class 2 ebikes are only allowed if you receive a permit from the Michigan DNR. Um, and in order to receive that permit, you have to have a

demonstrated mobility issue uh with documentation that uh the class 2 ebike uh provides you some um uh mobility assistance. And so in short, you have to either have a handicap placard or you have to have a doctor's note and get a license from the state of Michigan to ride a class 2 ebike on any state uh trail. And class 3es are not allowed at all on within the state park right now. Don't ask me how they're policing that, but that that's the the state laws within DNR. I just want to go on record and say this policy by the state I don't agree with and it is really about how you ride the bike. There is so much confusion. Half the people don't even know what kind of class they have. And so I'm really think it's important to to note how people are riding the bike versus trying to figure out is there a one, two, or three on that bike that's riding by. Denying somebody to ride a bike on the trail respectfully would be like saying you can't drive your Mustang down Elm Street because the speed limit is 25 and you might go over the speed limit in that that sports car. that's it just I can't get past what they're thinking and I think it's just that it's it's an evolving conversation and I hope it continues to evolve because I see a lot of people getting out that probably wouldn't get out. So we we participate in a regional trailblazers committee. Um and that's made up uh Livingston, Lenway, Washington, Minro County, and Jackson County. Um and we've been meeting about once every quarter for the past year and it includes the DNR, the metro parks, local communities, the counties, everybody who is trying to build the

trail network throughout the state um or the region. And to your point that this is a topic that everybody says, "Well, when you figure out how to do it right, let us know because everybody is trying to figure this out at this point." Um, you see the state law, you see the DNR has different regulations. The metro parks have different rules. They're their metro parks basically say anything goes. You're allowed to ride a bike where you're allowed to ride a bike. Um, a traditional bike. And so it is an ever evolving conversation and everybody is trying to figure it out. Uh oh. So I guess as you're looking for something there, I I think about this. I'm trying to think the the um you know class three and because you can ride it slower just like a class two and the regulations what's or how you're going to regulate it is really the challenge. on it and it just seems to be the easy answer to say we just won't allow it and if we see one then we could take action versus um if it's about speed if it if that's what it's about.

I'm only speculating. I think the the purpose behind what the state's law is is they want you to pedal. That's what it comes down to. You have to pedal on a class one. You don't have to pedal on a class two or three. And you in theory you could zoom around uh at a much faster speed. And so and that kind of gets into what the national parks rules are. Um finally the the superintendence compendium which is the name for the regulations in each state or national park and each one is different. Um for the river raisin national battlefield park um the use of bicycles is prohibited except on park roads, trails and parking lots. Um they shall not be operated on off operated off established pathways. So, you can't go riding through the battlefield. You have to stay on the trail. Um, ebikes are prohibited where traditional bikes are prohibited. So, if you can't ride a bike, you can't ride or traditional bike, you can't ride an ebike except where motor vehicles are allowed using the ebike to uh the electric motor to move an ebike without pedaling is prohibited. So, the national parks are saying class 3 ebikes can only go where motor vehicles are permitted. Class one and class 2, you're allowed to be where any bike is, but you have to be pedaling. So, that's how they regulate it. So, an ebike is allowed where traditional bikes are, but you have to be pedaling and no class 3 ebikes,

which seems what you're going back just just drift back. And the same thing for the DN DNR is they're allowing uh class two, but there there's got to be a uh specific um need, I'll say, or or writers need that they allow that to u be um used the two. Whereas I go back to the park regulations, they they want you to be pedaling all the time. All right. Yep. And and they just eliminated class 3es all together. Correct. Yeah. So basically they want you to use pedal assist. Pedal assist.

Mhm. Pedal assist though with class three. Right. So I don't it's how you ride the bike cuz Yeah. Right. And right because you can you can do all all you can ride all you can pedal all three. Correct. But they're whatever these regulations are. They're assuming that if you're on a three you're not necessarily pedaling which I don't know if that's the case. Um you know it might be the Okay. Again they're not regulating speed. They're only regulating the classes and the usage of it. uh speed net etiquette and things of that sort.

The difference between the two is actually that one can go to the top speed. Yeah. So that's why they're Well, that's I think I understand why it is. Not saying I agree. I'm just understand why it is. Yeah. Yep.

This it's off I won't say it's off topic. So this is about what we're going to set. I just think about when a person purchases, what do they get? What are they told? what is there material that's state uh um guidelines regulation or whatever and I know that probably wherever you're buying it doesn't have to say that but I think some some do let you know what they want to know what your need is what you're looking for and I would think they would gear that sale to what you're asking for but still also thinking that uh well you understand this is where you can ride I don't know I don't know I I don't have one so I don't know if they if they do that or not I would think some stores probably I think there is a consideration

if if you have a class 3 bike. There probably are some people who are using as alternative transportation to get here and there uh as quick as they can. But there are also people who will use those just for recreational purposes too. Um and not maybe both have it as your main source of transportation but also to ride a bike on the trail at a leisure recreation purpose too. So the question is how do we blend that together? You're probably not going to buy two, you know, one when I go to work and one when I'm recreating. I I would think may some people might, but I would think you'd try to find the one that's going to um what your greatest need might be or use.

We just wanted to provide that for a reference point, the county's current status, the state, and the the national as we're having this discussion about ours. Um but going back to the trail committee's recommendations, most of theirs um revolves around regulating speed and putting speed limits and then also communicating etiquette. Um and then the third part of that conversation is downtown and what do we want to do with downtown and how do we treat that? Um I know part of the challenge was with the downtown too is the way that we have our sidewalks and thinking about like front street from Mcome to Cash Street. We have street trees as well. So, if you're pushing bikes out so many feet away from the door, you have to maintain that handicap accessibility uh uh distance out from the door. And then if you're pushing bikes past there, you may not be allowed to ride period because then you'd be hitting the trees and trying to weave around where we already have benches and waste receptacles and and flower planters already. So there may be some challenges with trying to say allow it and only allow it x amount of feet because if you push them past that ADA accessible pathway, there may not be a feasible way to ride the bike anyway. So

and in summers where I almost say is the only time because we're seeing ebikes and regular bikes and other items. I saw one of those scooters today is um the the cafes in the downtown. Yeah. extended out from the business out into the to have a place to eat. And I mean there's there's I mean a couple places are they're ADA compliant, but they're I mean at the inch to be ADA compliant and I don't see how that's going to work. And we're getting more and more of those. The sidewalk cafe permits as well.

Other questions? Andrew? I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but I know that we are talking about um what the space on the sidewalk is going to be dedicated for and if the sidewalks themselves are going to get bigger or if there's going to be more parking or um um or bike lanes dedicated on the roadways. And at the same time that we're talking about this, we're also talking about the one-way conversions

in the downtown. And the challenge that we have in that respect is the limited amount of real estate that we have on the road to work with. And any um space on the roadway that's dedicated to parking or bike lanes then cannot be dedicated to turn lanes or additional traffic lanes. And so just as we're having this discussion, you know, it might help to have a a holistic discussion comparing um both of those items so that we have a cohesive policy as a city and not look at each, okay, what's our bike policy? Okay, now let's do two-way road conversions. Okay, what's our streetscape design when each of those affects the other one?

I agree. And I think that that's really what in the long term if we just kind of put this, you know, one item at one item, then at the end you're going to say, "Well, this isn't going to work." And we may be changing things. It wasn't lost on me. It was about a month ago. I was downtown in one of the businesses and saw this photograph I had not seen before on the wall and it has the picture of East Front Street, four lanes and sidewalks, two-way traffic.

And I said, "What? How' they move the buildings to be closer?" because there's just not that kind of space. Well, we we we've changed over the years. We the sidewalks are getting wider. We're putting the bumpouts for the trees or, you know, so the walkways are close or or you know, walking across the street is a shorter distance. But I just kept looking at the photograph. I'm thinking, you know, and then the cars were parallel parked, not angle park. That right there is space that's currently not um it's being used for parking versus mobility.

Mhm. And and I and so I think that's part to Andrew's point as well and we're talking about you know and have for a while a long long time about conversion from one way or two way something for our our task for this year is uh to to get that input and I think it really ties to all this conversation. I'd be cautious that we make some you know we have to we have to start making decisions on this and I think it um that has to be part of the discussion. Uh and I don't know some people don't like parallel parking. I get it. It's maybe a little challenging for some, but you you know, how do you try to make it all work or what are you going to discard as not being workable is really the is going to be the conversation as we get there because we want to provide all these amenities, all these opportunities. You want to have sidewalk safe. You want to be street safe. You want to have children safe. You want to have cars to park easily. You have, you know, want to park where, you know, more cars parking, you know, angle than it is parallel as you go down the street. But it's a great photograph and I'm going have to get a picture of it. Ask if I can get a copy because it really surprised me when I saw that.

Yeah. If you want to go see it, it's in Wise Guys. You can go see it right there. saw it on Friday. Yeah, I saw that and I just stood there. You staying for another haircut? No, I just got to look at this photo. So, that was um Yeah. So, are there any other questions? So, I'll just I'll ask I mean this is obviously through the I appreciate the bicycle and pedestrian trail committee and their work put on this to bring us to this point. Um, I won't say next steps like we're going to make something quickly, but kind of what is the ne next step, not the final steps, I guess.

So, we were hoping to take feedback from you tonight and then director Tolstead and I along with support from the city manager. Um, we'll come up with some draft overall recommendations that we can carry forward. If it's going to incorporate a an ordinance amendment, um, have some draft language for you. also if it's going to uh involve the park regulations changing have some draft language for you there as well. Um so that that was our intended next steps is to bring actually bring some drafts to you. Um, and so I guess it would be helpful to know are there any of their recommendations uh that uh really stood out as either good starters or non-starters whatsoever when we think about the um the speed limit, the posting, the signage, uh the definitions, um comments

or is there a preference to move toward regulating class one, class 2, class three versus more the etiquette and the speed of any bike and any user whatsoever. Well, I'll just I'll start because I'm sure that Oh, Kathy, go ahead.

I'm all voting for the adequate etiquette rather than the class because I know that there's just a lack of understanding on what people have. You can ride a class three bike on level one and ride it just like a level one bike. So I think that piece of it we have to understand um and once they understand it more maybe it'll be more clear but if we could focus on how people are writing I think that would be better for all of our citizens.

Other thoughts? I'm kind of at a combination. I think that we have to have the etiquette. We have to have the items. uh I don't it's a challenge because I think there is people not knowing what class they have but then once you I'll say if that's if that is a challenge and once it's regulated it'll it'll get learned quickly and I don't think I'm not talking about enforcement I'm not talking about citations I'm talking about education uh and I think that more and more people are learning what what bike they're purchasing because of these um these discussions. Uh and I just and I always watch because there's more coming out of different type of ebikes and you know there's newer and better, right? And part of it is is the ride and part of it it might be you know I'd be curious when you talk about sales of of ebikes, what's what's what's selling and what's not? What's what's the primary purchase? What's the the number? I mean, if we're talking about 10% that is only one of these and and the majority is elsewhere, then we have to have something in place. I I don't have then just I'm just kind of thinking I don't have that data. I don't know. And I'm not saying we have to go out and do a bunch of research on this, but um we we have a shop that sells might. be curious and our I mean I'm not going to I'm not going to compare to some other community that doesn't have a you know the I'll say old built out historic downtown whereas versus there is a downtown but it's wide open streets they already have four lanes and they're managing it because they got space to put the the lanes easily as we've seen in some of these photographs or or yeah so I don't know what that combination is but I think it's um I just at least just want to have some more information.

Now, Andrew, I think I agree with Councilwoman Stringham in spirit, but then we have questions about how we actually enforce that.

Um because if we're going to hold uh a speed limit into effect for all regardless of class of bike, regardless whether it's an ebike or a traditional bike, ebikes might have speedometers. traditional bikes do not. And then it puts a certain burden on the police department then to have a speed gun saying, you know, hey, I I caught you going, you know, 25 and a 20 as opposed to, you know, waving someone over who, hey, I think you were going a bit fast. Well, I was going the speed limit for the post, you know, the posted speed limit for the area versus, you know, so you can sort of ask them to slow down, but what do you really get them on? So then it I I would I would lean into uh Director Tolstead's experience on that um as to what an enforcement nightmare that might look like. But so I think that logistically it might be there might be some simplicity by going with the class of bike, but I'm with you in that, you know, in a perfect world, I think I'd prefer it just to be, hey, we're going to set standards and for first speed limits and etiquette and just hope that everyone abides in the way that they should. But it took us a year and a half to educate the public that hey the b the bird scooters are there but you can't have them on the sidewalks. You know it's a motorized vehicle that needs to be in the street. Um, I would also ask the the bicycle and pedestrian committee um what their proposed improvements are to the roadways that they see being improved in the downtown where there is not permitted um wheels on the sidewalks being allowed right now. Um the discussion about allowing um wheeled vehicles on the sidewalks temporarily in the short term I think is an interesting discussion that we might want to have. But what would it take to

get us to that next step? And do we agree with the space allocations that are going to be recommended for that utilization? Because I know as a key part of that commit uh on I sat on the the advisory committee that came up with the master plan um before the committee was formed. Um, and I know that a a subject of discussion was having a certain level of infrastructure in place to allow for those bike lanes for the riders then to feel safe where they would actually be utilized. Um, and if that cost becomes high both in the infrastructure investment that the city is going to be making and the amount of real estate that they're going to take up in the roadway, those are all things that need to be weighed against these other options. So, I'd like to see what the uh what the long-term alternative is where we can get these uh these wheeled vehicles onto the roadways if that is the long-term plan. Um and and what that would look like. Um otherwise we might you know if we can't come to a viable alternative on that front we might be looking more closely at keeping them on the sidewalk and how do you designate that this is the pedestrian part of the sidewalk and this is the you know the bicycle part of the sidewalk. I

discussions so I would be looking for additional guidance from the committee on that. So just a background I you know we all hear from residents or other others about this and it it I don't know if the public safety has this or not but we're pro uh um primarily we've received complaints regarding um whether it be traditional bikes, ebikes, uh walking the combination thereof and what we have is it currently well I say working I know we need adjustments but how do how do we modify by that in the short term knowing that we have a long term we have to have a long-term perspective of how we I I know a couple locations in in the heart of downtown that it's it um we get and it's not just the the the same calls it's other calls or is it just not is it not maybe it's it's actually less than that because just the you know there's a more vocal of a location of a couple locations versus overall it may not impact the same. I don't know.

If I may, mayor, too, I'd like to circle back to the the conversation we had a little bit earlier about everybody is trying to figure this out right now. And I think no matter what we do, we're going to have to continuously evaluate how it's going, how it's working, if we need to make changes. Um, Director Tolstead and I, and I don't want to speak for him, but we were having some conversation today about enforcement and about education methods uh and signage and things of that sort. And you've seen undoubtedly throughout the city and throughout the county the digital signs that say your speed and it tells you what your speed is. Um they actually make those at a smaller scale for for bikes and trails that we could employ um and strategically locate those but you also get data from those. And so uh as motorists are passing you're it's counting how many are going above the speed limit under the speed limit and different data. So we could always do trial things as well uh to help us better understand where the needs are, where the focus needs to be. And certainly if we if we invest in a few of those and place them along like the Whirl Trail in other places and after a couple months we get data off of it that says we're getting a ton of people who are going above 50 m hour or whatever we set the speed at, then we know, you know, we got to do something a little bit different here. Um but also uh some conversation there has been a lot done by public safety in the past uh in terms of enforcement and education particularly in the downtown and working uh with uh the DDA and DMV and getting some messaging out the officers being on the street and helping to inform motorists. And so uh we had some conversation about the need for additional uh activities like that. And we also our communications department and our partnership with Monroe Community Media, I believe it is now,

right? Formerly impact. Um, whatever we decide, whatever direction we go, understanding we've got to do some education and work with them on on that sort of engagement and get that out to the community. So, enforcement's always going to be a challenge, I think. Mike.

Yeah, I'd just like to add I'm I'm leaning along the the etiquette and speed limits. Um but really more than anything, I think it's going to be a work in progress. Like Mark was just saying before he said, that was what I was thinking. Um but more than anything, I'd like to thank the uh advisory commission for doing this and and giving those recommendations. I was reading through here because I I somewhere in here talks about you know Biden by the speed but is there's space in there to also include the traffic control devices I see frequently where you know it's a red light but they just go because there's no cars and I think that that's I think that's expected I would think but that's not always what we see whether it be a traffic light stop sign um you have to have the same everybody has to have the same uh procedures to follow if it's going to work. Otherwise, somebody's going to think that I can step out and, you know, somebody doesn't see somebody and there stop signs there for a reason. You know, there's there possibly there's probably or possibly something else coming the other way. Same with traffic lights. I we've seen that. So, I some I don't know where it's at in here about the regulations. So, I can't remember. Just somewhere it said refer to that. So, that's what came to my mind.

Other questions or comments? I'm sure you'll receiving be receiving more as we kind of think this through as well. Certainly welcome it. Okay, thanks Mark. I know we have a couple of more items for this evening on our work session. Uh clerk Lavoy, our next item is item 5743, review of citizens planning commission term limits. Thank you. Uh, manager Robinson, your

honor, as uh we're bringing to you in this work session, just in the consideration that currently right now the Citizens Planning Commission has actual term limits for how long someone could serve. And I know as we're working to um get all of our boards and commissions kind of standardized in in some of the language and the things that they do, especially a a commission like the citizens planning commission is there's a lot of learning curve that goes with that committee and a lot of education that those that participate in in the planning commission go through. and we're hoping to to get your support or your opinions on us eliminating term limits for that commission because just because it's written down that you have so many years you can serve and then you got to take a year off then you got so many years you can serve and then you can't be on it anymore. I think when it's difficult for us to be able to attract citizens who are interested in doing these kind of commissions and interested in putting the time in and all that, I think it would be, you know, we're looking for for your guidance if you feel that this would be appropriate for us to eliminate the the term limits for the citizens planning commission. I know Director Cochran might have some added added verbiage or details to this topic. Mark, as you as you um where you present um or some additional information, make sure if you cover, you know, this is by ordinance, correct? And then we have term limits on other boards, but it's it's regulated for a different fashion like the DDA. Yep.

So, if you can include that in there as well because somebody said, "Well, there are other term limits." Well, not by ordinance. I think this might be the only one.

Yep. Okay. So, um, out of all of our boards and commissions, most of our boards all have an ordinance that council adopted that sets out the framework and the structure and the makeup and composition in charge of each of those boards and commissions. Um, the planning commission, uh, as the city manager indicated, it is the only one where in the ordinance that was adopted by city council, uh, at some point it was it was revised. Um, city council set the limit that said, uh, each commissioner serves three-year terms and they shall serve no more than three terms. So, a total of 9 years is the maximum somebody is allowed to serve on the planning commission. Um, the other boards and commissions like the DDA, um, the Telegraph Road Corridor improvement authority, they have term limits too, but it's in their bylaws. So, uh, each board is required to establish and draft their own bylaws, which then come to city council for approval. Uh, and so you have to sign off on those. Um, but just like the park rules, that's just a policy that you adopt as part of your ordinance or as part of your agenda. Um, but for ordinances, of course, those require two readings and a public hearing before in publishing before it can be adopted. Um, and so this is city council telling the planning commission, you can only serve three terms versus in bylaws where the board and commission decide, we're going to give oursel term limits. Council, do you agree? Uh, and that's how those have been established. So, city council or planning commission is the only one by ordinance uh with with that requirement. Um, and as the city manager indicated, all of our boards and commissions do some incredible great work. Um the planning commission is very heavy in a regulatory function or a judiciary function where their decision is final. They're not an advisory and capacity. Um it is very

technical in the fact that they work in the city's comprehensive master plan. They work in the zoning ordinance. They work in master planning. Um and uh it takes a long time to pick all of that up. Uh and so it's great when we have strong commission members who are experienced and can talk uh very knowledgeable uh because of their experience over the years or professional development the planning commission. Uh so having some tenure there and experience is very helpful um in understanding the outcome of the cases that they hear and the the work that they do uh on a monthly basis. So, uh, what we're, uh, bringing forth for discussion, as city manager Robinson indicated, is possibly amending that ordinance to remove that. Um, of course, uh, just as on the agenda tonight, uh, mayor and city council make the appointments and you also make the reappoints. And so, if there is an instance and, uh, the ordinance as well as the Michigan Planning Enabling Act does talk about, uh, if you need to remove a member, there's also the power and the authority to do that. Um, but every time a term comes up, city council has the opportunity to decide whether you want to reappoint somebody or not to continue serving. So, uh, it's not to say that everybody has a lifetime appointment on the planning commission, but they do have three-year terms that that are reviewed by you. Um, and I know the mayor's office does uh great work in terms of looking at attendance records and activity and participation in each of the boards when considering reappointments. Uh, and so we wanted to bring that to you for discussion and and possible next steps for consideration,

questions or thoughts?

Kathy, it sounds like it would be better um because because you cannot envision every single situation that may come up, you know, while somebody is on a board. it would be better to have the control being when you're voting them in versus being required to remove them because of an ordinance. So it feels like that would be more common sense and and the proper control

you know boards and commissions and of course the council you know you it's January and it's June there's most of the reappoints are in January they're spaced out so they're not anybody on a board's not coming at the entire uh same year uh it takes time I Mark is correct as as you know December gets around and uh um the system will ask for all the um attendance records which I get and review and then if there's issues so I have conversations and try to find out what that reason may be and there's sometimes are justified could be health it could be something else but they still want to serve and then what that means and how long and then not letting somebody go the entire time if they're just not showing up and I've had those conversations with members that just whatever reason it's it's time to move forward I thank them as I say, "Thanks for your service." But we, you know, we have other people that have an interest and we rely on the boards and commissions like tonight. We rely on the people in the in the community to serve. It's it's how we get information and input, but also help do some of the lift up front. So, I I like to think that we as a council have have managed that with um where um we're where I agree with Kathy where term limits just says, "Oh, you're you're done." and and it may not be the best time either if that's the person that you're looking for the greatest leadership on a board uh when you have a newer members that are learning from that person. So I am not I'm not a favor of term limits. I understand why we have them. The other iss bylaws, but this is an ordinance that we as a council that we decided to uh make that change years ago. So Michelle,

I think the planning commission is the one commission where we do need the seasoned educated people to serve on the board. So I think we should

Can I add something also some uniqueness about the planning commission also? We all know it can be a challenge to recruit new board and commission members uh as well. Uh and the planning commission is also appointed by precinct. Uh which can add some challenges and difficulties when you have to have uh one from every precinct represented. Uh as opposed to some of the other boards where it can be a body of five and and the the um appointments uh criteria is a little less stringent. Um, so when you're trying to recruit new planning commission members, uh, and you also have some falling off, there can be some challenges that come into play there when you have term limits. Also,

just to add to that, the planning commission used to have nine members and it was uh, every precinct and then some precincts you have extra, there was two extra wherever you could find, you know, find. So some precincts had two people. it became a challenge and so that we we as a council changed that to be seven which made sense because you'd have one from each precinct and then you'd have the seventh to be make sure there's the odd number and it's an atlarge position so that at large could come from any precinct. Um and so that's that's how we got the seven. Um just you know some changes that were made over the years. So, um, Mike,

I'm I'm for the amendment. I know that the the gentleman that served from my precinct had just moved and was luckily that he there was that um at large position that he was able to fill and we wouldn't want to lose him. So, um, anything we can do to to retain our talent, I think we should do.

I agree. And it's interesting we're still have that vacancy, too. And I know that the councilman and I have talked about it and I've talked to other people. have talked to the commissioners in looking for that uh precinct representative for the uh for the current vacancy but um you know I talk to people frequently about that always recruiting right so other thoughts if there's no others I don't know if that's uh give some direction for um if we'll see this again coming forward to us and if if it is it would be uh ordinance amendment which would require public hearing correct Or is it two? Uh, public hearing and two readings and publication. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. I think we have one more item. We do have one more item. Item 5731, rightway construction procedures for telecommunication providers. Man Robinson. Oh, I see Mr. Lewis here. Mr. Lewis,

figured you'd like want me to fire away here because the time is growing short. Patrick Lewis, honorable mayor, council and clerk treasure. Patrick Lewis, director of engineering and public services and interim director of water and wastewater utilities. Um I wanted to put this in front of all of you because we're starting to really get into a heated situation here. We've got multiple fiber optic providers um wanting to come into the city and uh so we put together a draft policy statement. I just want to kind of put it in front of all of you and highlight a few of the things on there just to make sure that you didn't have any major concerns before we issue this um to those providers. Just as a brief overview for where we are and I think many people would say we we'd be happy to have some competition here in the uh highspeed internet world. Um what we've got is probably potentially in excess of competition. We have three major providers that are looking to come in. Um Omni Fiber is looking to come in citywide and Mercury Fiber and Surf Internet both are looking right now just at the north side of the river. I don't know what their timeline is on the rest of the city build, but um we've already gotten significant permit applications and things in. So without too much ado here, I I did issue a memo to all of you about a week ago because I wanted to have this information in front of you. Uh with with some of our things, I just wanted to highlight on this. Uh attorney Buds and and staff met uh also with Mike Watsa, who is a who is the attorney for Protek. Uh was kind of a I don't know what you call him, a quasi quasi governmental association of interested parties that are looking to protect the uh municipalities right-of-way interest. but looking at what we could and couldn't do. We want to we want to push hard enough to represent the city's interest, but also not be unduly obstinate and also staying on the right side of what the law would tell us we can do. We're not going to put something down in front that is not enforceable. So, a couple of things we wanted to talk to you about just briefly here just to uh let you know where we were with them. We uh the city opted in about 25 years ago to the Metro Act which is where we get a distribution of funds every year

from those fiber producers or fiber providers and um we get in exchange for that every new provider gets to pay a $500 fee and then we license them to operate in the city more or less in perpetuity. Uh there's technically end times on those terms but um more or less it's a it's a $500 license but then we get revenues every year coming back to us. Uh I did ask for that information from the finance department. We're looking somewhere about $90,000 this year in our distribution. So, um the city uses that money for various activities within its public right of way. So, there's uh that's the allowable use by law. And that can what does that mean? I don't know if we have time to get into all that, but basically we put that towards right-of-way work in one way, shape, or form. With that, um we don't we aren't sure that we can assess individual permit fees for these. So in other words, when they come to construction, there are significant costs, I would say, to my department in particular, but also in the water and wastewater departments when it comes to uh marking our utilities uh and doing permit reviews. Uh one example is the surf internet people have decided they're going 20 miles underground. So that's all directional drilling the north side of the river basically between Godroy and Baptist going up to from the river to Maywood. 20 miles of permit boring means a lot of drawings that we've got to give them and a lot of uh review that we've got to make on those. So, we aren't sure we can recoup the costs of our staff to review those permits, do the field markings, misdig markings, and those types of things. So, we had originally written a policy where we had permit fees set up. We were kind of advised by Mr. Watza uh that we probably can't enforce that. So, I want to make you all aware of that because as this construction starts, you're going to start seeing a lot of activity. We're going to do our best to try to monitor that, but we are not really able to recoup any of those fees. So, if it was the desire of the council to take a hardline stance and kind of push back on that, um, we would need your direction because there will probably be some

legal costs associated with that. So, that was one thing. Um, another thing that was in here that the, uh, providers are starting to want to put up, you notice one of them next to our employee parking lot on Scott Street. Um, and those are the above ground cabinets. A lot of the providers seem to think they need these in quite a few areas. Uh, the permits I've gotten in thus far don't have very many yet. Um, we this policy that I put in front of you tonight would restrict those to rear yards, sidey yards, and basically commercial industrial areas. So, in other words, we don't want them parked in front of somebody's front window. So, uh, we think that's a defensible position to take, but I wanted to make you aware of that as you start seeing some of these come up that we in some cases may not have a choice but to accept them because they are a part of what they claim is providing their services. they need these power cabinets to push signals through and things like that. So, that's one other thing I want to make you aware of. This policy also would we're going to attempt and I don't know how successful we'll be at this, but um for example, the first set of permits we have from the one provider shows what they call flower pots, which are like 8 in diameter little hand holes where they get in there and splice the wires to go to each individual residence. For example, the 20-mile permits that I described to you, they have 1,300 different structures. Either little vaults in the in the sidewalk, little vaults in the terrace, or these little flower pots, what they call them. We think it's a little premature and a little speculative for each one of these providers to set these flower pots in front of everybody's house. Um, presuming that everyone's going to take their service, but we're already starting to get push back from the providers saying, "Well, we we need those because if we need to splice in for residents, we we need to have those available to us." So, we're going to do the best we can to try to push back on the city's interest, but I wanted to highlight those few things in our fiber optic uh telecom providers policy that we will roll out to these uh three

providers here shortly. Uh kind of laying out the ground rules. I don't know if I have a whole lot more time to go into a lot greater depth. It's uh I will say that it's a good thing for the city residents that we're going to have some competition. Um, but I think there's a a line here where it's maybe too much all at one time. So, we're trying our best in my department to get a handle on it so that we don't end up with the Wild Wild West and everybody just setting up in front yards and drilling every which way. So, we're doing our best, but I can't keep uh we we can't legally stop them from operating within our rights of way, even if it is in a spec somewhat speculative basis. So, uh I think I'll leave it there. Mr. Robinson, did I miss anything? I don't you covered it. Great.

Okay. And certainly I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Understanding that I don't necessarily know every single legal answer to every question here. We're doing our best to uh navigate through this. Kind of like the ebike discussion here. There's a lot of lot of unknowns and a lot of different ways we could we could take things, but we're going to try to be firm but fair. Questions for Patrick? I know it's a quick review of it and I'm probably going to take some additional time myself. I think council will as well to look this over. But um questions right now I take them. Andrew, it doesn't sound like it, but is there any expansion of the existing rights of way through people's yards?

Uh no, they don't have the ability to to to do that. They're making use of what right of way we have. And that's and that's our challenge. We only have 60 or 66 feet in most neighborhoods. And now we're now we're having potentially three more fiber providers um with at least two of those wanting to go solely underground because it's for them it's the time to market. So no, the answer is they would would not be able to use any additional properties that they that are not already part of the public rightway or in some cases utility easements. Some plats, subdivision plats do have rear yard utility easements. Be the same deal there. We couldn't stop them from using those, but um they mo mostly the permits that we've gotten in so far, which are in various degrees of development. So far, the permits we have in look like they're using mostly road rights of way. Uh a couple of alleys here and there, but mostly mostly road rights of way.

And for any future construction projects, when you call um Miss Dig, they would be responsible for coming out and marking those lines. Yes. Okay.

Yes, they will. and and that you know that's another thing on the and I didn't highlight it in the policy because we've made the decision based on what we think is best from an engineering standpoint but the primary concern we do have is private sewer leads because we can identify on the mistig system where our public mains are water services as well um but we don't know everybody's individual house service so what we have asked these providers is to operate between 24 and 36 in below ground so 2 to 3 ft below ground most of our sanitary sewer are 5 ft or lower, which means the leads come up a little bit as you go toward the house. We feel that we're most likely to miss them if we're 3 ft or higher, you know, less than 3 ft above the or below the ground. So, that's that's the hope, but I I will almost guarantee you there will be sewer leads hit that will be shallower than we think they are, and we don't know where they are, and they won't know where they are. But that's where we're doing our best to keep them in a corridor. or I told them either go 24 to 36 or go un a foot under the lowest sanitary sewer. So, we'll see if they stick to it because when they get the drill rigs going, they kind of ride the waves sometimes.

Other questions? I do have one for if there is damage to the existing sanitary sewer, who is responsible for that repair? Well, they are responsible for the repairs of anything they hit and we're writing that into our permits.

Okay. Now, with that said, will will some providers attempt to say, "It's not our fault. You didn't mark it. Nothing's missed. We can't we can't be responsible. We don't know where it's at." So, I would expect somewhere along the line, we're going to get push back from one or more providers. The ones we've dealt with so far seem to be reasonably cooperative in that regard, but um I'll never guarantee we won't be fighting with them. We'll look forward to some additional information, I believe. So, as it progresses, I'm sure that uh you through the manager will bring that forward to us. And if there's questions from council, I'm sure they can forward those along as well.

Certainly. Yeah. I I think we I would I would prefer uh that we adopt this policy in a couple of weeks and we come back and endorse it. That way we I can say that the policy was endorsed by city council in case I start to get push back the providers. Yeah, we'd want u any provider to come in here and think that well we're just going to make if we make mistakes that we're just a way that we don't have to be responsible and I think that's not I don't think that's happening but I I wouldn't want it to happen either. So yeah, it's that to Andrew's point, you know, there's going to be circumstances, but we should be prepared for that what our position is up front and then hold that. So

we are requiring a a bond. I I've set amount of $50,000. um if it's over five miles, we said it's $100,000. Another legal challenge is does that apply to private property, which would be private leads. Um we're going to take the position that it does, but again, who knows? Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. All right. Very good. Appreciate the time. Thanks. Uh manager Robinson, anything further or Nothing further for this uh work session.

Any final comments from council? if there's something uh about 10 minutes we take a break before the regular meeting and clerk Levoy anything that you may have. Okay, I see no more. So, at this time I'll close the uh work session and be back in about 10 minutes for the regular city council meeting. Thank you. Thank

and call the city council meeting to order. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Vining here. Here. Felder here. Stograve here. Mayor Clark here. All please rise for the invitation. Remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. Guide our working together. Give us wisdom to make the right decisions, your understanding to listen to each other, and your compassion to promote the peace and welfare of the residents of this community. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Clerk, next item, please. The next item is the approval of the regular agenda. Mr. Robinson, any adjustments or amendments to the agenda? Administration has no adjustments to the agenda. Any requests of adjustments from the council? Seeing none, Councilman Hater, I'll make a motion. Motion to approve the uh regular agenda. Motion by Councilman Hater, supported by Councilman Stilgrave to approve the regular agenda. Agenda agenda. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Vining. Uh Geriney. Yes. Yes. Belder. Yes. Yes. Still, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. Next item, please.

The next item is the consent agenda. And for item B, approval of payments, the amount should read 2,331,352.52. 2331352.52.

There items on the consent agenda that council wishes to have pulled for further discussion. Any items from city council? Any items on the consent agenda? Those present here this evening wish to have pulled for further discussion. Items that are on the consent agenda. If there's a item that uh those present wish to speak about, now would be the time to ask to have it pulled. We'll put it on later on the agenda. Otherwise, the items on the consent agenda will get passed by a single vote versus individual um discussions as is under the council action. Any items on the consent agenda those present here this evening?

Commissioner 5737. Thank you. Other items wish to have pulled. Okay. Seeing none. A a motion regarding the consent agenda. Councilman Felder. Yes. I'd make a motion that all items on the consent agenda not pulled for further discussion be accepted placed on file. Recommendations carried out. Resolutions adopted. Motion by Councilman Felder, supported by Councilwoman Gerineia that all items on the consent agenda not pulled for further discussion be accepted, placed on file. Uh recommendations carried out. Clerk, please call the role. Yes. Stringham? Yes. Fowler? Yes.

Yes. Still, yes. Mayor Clark. Yes. And clerk, that'll um be then be brought to the end of the meeting. Correct. It'll be the final item under council action. Thank you. Um next item, please. The next item is council action item 5748 May 2026 election early voting. Thank you. Um Manager Robinson or Clerk Lavoy, I think if there's any conversation. I think this one would be one for Clerk Lavoy to explain.

Very good. Um this is once again an election that we're not required to offer early voting to our residents, but we have um many residents who've expressed uh continued support and interest in early voting. And because it's a small election, I wanted to balance that against making it cost-effective. We already have to be open on Saturday prior to the election. So I thought it was a perfect day um to offer some early an early voting option to those who would like to have it. So that's that's what it is. It'll be one day of early voting on Saturday, May 2nd, preceding the May 5th, 2026 election. Thank you. As we've done early voting here,

it'll be in council chambers and the only requirement from the state is that we have uh the legislative body of the municipality approve it. Thank you. Any questions um for clerk Lavoy regarding this item? Councilwoman,

I would like to make a motion. Move to approve the resolution enabling the city of Monroe Clerk Treasures Office to conduct early voting for the City of Monroe registered voters at City Hall, 120 East 1st Street, Monroe, Michigan on Saturday, May 2nd, 2026, preceding the May 5th, 2026 election. Second motion by Councilwoman Stringer. reported by Councilman Felder on item 5748 the May 2026 election early voting clerk please call the role person Germany yes stringham yes yes her yes stillgrave yes mayor Clark yes thank you thank you next item please

the next item is 5747 renewal of professional services agreement with colar architecture for the center 2.0 O project. Thank you. Uh Manager Robinson, uh I know that we've had this uh discussion on this item. Anything additional or further you'd like to say this evening? Nothing uh further out of this other than this is a renewal o of the um is being brought this week back this week because under Robert's rules of order, it did not pass on the the the February 17th meeting as we only had five council members present at that point in time. So, we're bringing this back for a a renewing the motion at this at this meeting.

Thank you. Any questions or comments from councel? Councilwoman Germainey,

I'll make the motion to renew the award of professional services contract to Coler Architecture for $90,000 for the professional services design work for the center 2.0 0 project plus a 10% contingency for a total amount not to exceed $99,000 that the assistant city manager, director of economic and community development be authorized to execute any necessary agreements on behalf of the city. Um, there's a motion from Councilwoman Germaine, swore by Councilwoman her on item 5747, the renewal of the professional service agreement for Colar Architect for the Center 2.0 project. Clark, please call the role. Congress,

yes. Stringham, yes. Felder, yes. Still, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. Next item, please. Next item is item 5745, settlement agreement, FLP properties, gyms towing.

Thank you, manager Robinson. John, as you as you recall and council recalls, back in 2024, we did um site uh violations being done by FLP properties and and Jim's towing, and it did result in a circuit court case uh in 38 Circuit Court. And throughout this process, we have been able to reach a settlement agreement with FLT properties and Jim's Towing. And uh the agreement that we have uh have reached is before you tonight for you to uh approve the agreement and authorize the mayor and city clerk to sign and the city attorney to implement the terms of the agreement.

Thank you. Any questions from city council regarding this item? I see Mr. Buds there, but I don't think he has any comments this evening and thankfully your work uh and uh diligence on this. Uh, Councilwoman Stelgrief, I'd like to make the motion to approve the agreement and authorize the mayor and city clerk to sign in and the city attorney to implement the terms of the agreement. Support. Motion by Councilwoman Still, supported by Councilwoman Stringham on item 5745, the settlement agreement with FLP properties, Jim's towing. Clerk, please call the role. Council Germaine, yes. Stringham, yes. Fowler, yes. Yes. Still, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. Next item please.

The next item is 5744 DTE tax memorandum of understanding 2026. Thank you manager Robinson.

Yes your honor. This comes to you uh today as I think everybody is aware that the settlement agreement we had for tax with for the DTE Monroe power plant came to the end to an end at 2020 in 20 December of 2025. And we have worked over the last year to work with with DTE to to properly assess the value of the power plant. Uh throughout through the negotiation process, it was clear that they are to issue their IRP, which is their three-year plan of what is actually going to happen later in this year. So, it made sense to us to come to an agreement, a one-year agreement to where we would uh the 2026 assessed value would remain the same as the 2025 assessed value with only a slight increase based on the construction of the new security building and gates at the at the at their facility. And that is for you to uh to agree that for this memorandum and allow the mayor and city clerk to sign this agreement on behalf of the city. Thank you. I'm uh for um consideration motion. I want to add that we also have been in discussion with DT uh regarding the upcoming year as manager Robin said with the RFP which going to be due but we have a meeting started early on March 16th. So those meetings will continue as we work through this year uh on the future uh after this one-year agreement. Any questions from city council for the manager or city attorney? Councilman her.

Thank you, honor. I'd like to make the motion to approve the memorandum of understanding and authorize the mayor and city clerk to sign the agreement on behalf of the city for the DTE tax memorandum of 2026. Motion by Councilman Her supported by Councilman Felder and item 5744, the DTE tax memorandum of understanding for 2026. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Ding, I mean sorry, Gerainy, yes. Stringham, yes. Felder, yes. Yes. Stillgrave. Yes. Mayor Clark. Yes. Next item, please. Next item is 5388, resolution for approval of confidential non-union employment agreement. Thank you, manager Robinson.

Yes, your honor. We we are seeking uh council's approval and resolution of this confidential non-UN employment agreement for the position of assistant uh director of wastewater utilities uh for Mr. Jacob Labau and uh being able to once you do that, understanding this is a a new position from a restructuring that occurred when we had uh the longtime director Barry Loy retire and now these duties of director fall under director Lewis's position and this is a position to to uh assist in the running of the wastewater and water utilities department and we're hoping to uh get this uh your approval and resolution for this agreement.

Thank you. Any uh questions from city council? Uh Councilwoman Stringham. Your honor, I'll make a motion u move to approve the confidential non-union agreement. Motion from Councilwoman Stringum supported by Councilwoman Geriney on item 5388. Resolution for approval of the confidential non-unit employment agreement as presented. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Geriney, yes. Stringham, yes. Felder, yes. Yes. Stillgrave, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. Next item. The next item is the item that is coming from um the consent agenda. Item 5737, boards and commission appointments.

Yes, sir. Um questions? Yeah. Oh, you you'll have to come forward. I'm sorry. Elliot James, 633 Stone Street. Yes. I wanted to know what did that mean? Was this board was nominating people for the these appointments?

Yes. So the uh as I as we've talked and and I put put out that the committee that there's vacancies available. Um the two these two items is one appointment for the historic district commission and the other is on the commission of the environment and water quality. Not sure I'm answering your question though. Yes. On the historic Oh, the historic district commission. Yeah.

Yeah. So the historic district commission um is we have many um historic districts, individual properties. There's also um districts where uh they have the opportunity to review how some of the work gets done on certain properties. For instance, the downtown development authority downtown. Any work done there has to go to the historic district commission for review. And I I'm I'm just kind of I won't say winging it here, but that's part of my know. I know Mark Cochran who has is here and I'm looking to the manager. I don't know if he's going to give you a better I I know he'll give you a better answer, but they also did a program the other night. Part of it is educational for the community. They were here uh in city hall. We had 30 about 35 plus people that were here to kind of learn how to do restoration work in a house. U but they they review those projects. um the the um the the educational items, but also the work that's done that might be through um the building department. Um I have an old historic home. Before I could do work, I had to make sure that what I was using and how it was done and it's not restrictive. It's how do we make it work? How did it become compatible? Because materials of 140 years ago just aren't the same. Correct. So the idea is they you look at what you're going to do and and they kind of give that review and approval. Um u I don't know if Mark if you want to add some items. I think it might be helpful for not just Mr. James but those who are listening.

Thanks. I'll sit down while you stand up. All right. Thank you for the questions though. Yes. Uh honorable mayor council clerk treasurer Lavoy. Um, and Councilman her is the council leaison for the historic district commission

and one of our HDC commissioners is in the audience uh newest one uh this evening too. Um, but the HDC the the zoning ordinance requires certain standards be met uh for projects within the historic district uh for properties that are either individually uh designated or a part of a larger district to look at how do we protect the character uh as well as mend those against uh modern building and code practices uh to make sure that our historic districts and those properties that are part of our community's deep heritage are preserved and protected as to last another 100, 200 years. Um, but also the education opportunities that they provide uh like the the program that you mentioned uh and there's another one coming in April on window reglazing. Um but also they have certain goals and objectives uh that they are required to meet uh part of which uh through the state historic preservation office. Uh the historic district commission also provides technical support uh to property owners to help achieve and apply for tax credits through the historic uh tax credit historic preservation tax credit program uh that's offered at the state and federal level as well. So a lot of uh work that they do both regulatory as well as promotion and education as well.

Thank you my question. All right. Thank you.

Thanks. Thank you, Mark. You know, I uh just I want to follow up because um on appointments, we had conversation about that early in our work session. Uh and I it was in my comments for later, but I think it's appropriate now when I look at the how this came to be for the historic district commission appointment. The person that's being recommended attended the training session and and has a a 1913 property that has been restored. uh lives in the near the uh downtown district uh uh just a block away and actually had served previously uh or or I shouldn't say serve but uh had association with the downtown development authority with information. So I I find as we say we have these opportunities that presented comes from different locations. So that was the HDC uh uh recommendation for appointment. The other recommendation for appointment I think is a really neat u background and I was going to say it later I'll say it now. Um Kayn Wallace was one of our students in high school that was on the student advisory council. We recall they they would come and present and uh and saw her after that and she was going off to college and I said what are you going to what are you going to study? She goes environmental studies. I said that sounds interesting. We may see each other again. Well you know four years later same restaurant. I said, "What are you doing? Where are you working?" She works nearby in in Toledo, but uh and as you can see by her qualifications, she has a bachelor of science in environmental and sustainability studies. What I thought was interesting here as well is the eight years that she facilitated youth environmental education programs. And so that's the kind of people we have in our community that recognize they have uh some something to offer. I actually want to thank Dr. Everly who serves on the commission uh on the environment as well and she knew uh Kayn from her time with

the Winro public schools and um I think how we nurture our youth and the opportunities at advisory council knowing them as a student and just seeing somebody in a restaurant of course and they see me coming they know I'm always recruiting so sometimes they don't look at them. No I'm just kidding but it's it was great. She was I think it's going to be a great addition to the commission on environment moving forward. So I don't have to make that comment later. So with that, is there any questions or comments regarding the appointments uh for Mr. James? Uh Councilwoman Gerainy. Move to approve the resolution making appointments to city boards and commissions.

Second by Councilwoman Geriney, supported by uh Councilwoman Stilgrave on item 5737, appointments. Clerk, please call the role. Council person Geriney. Yes. Stringham, yes. Felder, yes. Hater, yes. Stelgrave, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. The next item, please. I have no further items this evening. Comments. Uh, we'll start with Councilwoman Geriney.

I'm first. Um, I would like to congratulate um, I'm on the housing commission advisory and I want to congratulate Nancy Wayne for her welldeserved retirement after all these years and also congratulate Jasmine who's going to be taking her place in her well-deserved promotion and also remind everyone that our clocks go forward this Sunday morning. Thank you,

Councilwoman Stringham. Well, I was going to remind you of the time change, too. So, we get the 7 o'clock sunsets, but don't shoot the messenger because it's not our decision to do that, and I know not everybody supports it. I also want to, um, point you out if you're on social media, um, part the Monroe Parks and Rock page has been putting out their summer concert series. So, I've been going in there and collecting those dates and adding them to my calendar because I don't want to miss any. So, if you're into the summer concert series, go look for them. um start marking them down because we're two months away from all the sun the fund that we have in Altruusa Park and also St. Mary's Park and those dates are being put out there. So, hope to see you there. Thank you, Councilman Felder. No comments this evening.

Councilman hat her. No comments. Counciloman Stillgrief.

Well, I had the opportunity this morning to be uh um at the entrepreneur showcase at for the Monroe Middle College at the um Monroe County Community College. So, we did four classes and uh pretty interesting because most of the kids there have no clue what happens when you own a business and so there were about four of us there and uh it was pretty cool that we were able to talk to them about it, give the pros and cons and you know see where they were going with their life. So that was a pretty cool thing. I also want to send out the condolences for Priscilla Hutra who was a very huge staple in our community with the United Way seropimist and um Salvation Army. She was on that board as well. Very good friend of mine and uh she definitely will be missed. She's 90 years old but you know she did a lot of huge things in the last probably 60 years. So just condolences there. Thank you. So, I have a few uh items I'll I'll review. Uh um I want to congratulate Sama, which is a Southeast Michigan uh community alliance. It's their 30th anniversary. And I know some people say, "Well, I don't know. How do we know Sama?" Well, Sama is a a great uh you know, from down river to Monroe and what Monroe is one of the founding um associations they had. So when you think of Michigan works and the learning bank, SEMA is the organization that provides the support and coordination for all of our community when people are, you know, going through the learning bank and the opportunity for where we find how uh home um employment placement and bringing skills. You don't have to go through those programs. You can still go to Michigan works here and and the city of Monroe has been a partner for the 30 years with them. So my congratulations. I know they're having their anniversary dinner uh this week on on on March 3rd. So, you speak of United Way that

congratulations to them, of course, as they continue to work through their 100redy year anniversary, but they they have their everyday heroes coming this week. It made me think of Priscilla Hutra as well, and I'm glad you brought Priscilla's name up. Uh, of course, um there's so much the list is is very long of all she's done for our community way back when the uh the the St. I'm sorry. St. Michael, you know, the u the fundraiser for all that she did there and it just goes the list is very very long. She will be missed. I'll miss seeing her in church. I see her all the time. So, u I wish I think about her family in this time that of their needs. So on on Saturday, March 7th is the uh celebration of children for the can council which is um from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. believe that's at the uh Mall of Monroe, right? Yes. Um on March 12th will be coming up as again Priscilla Hutra, Sopimist having their celebration of women event at the at the country club. And uh um I mean three of the things on here Priscilla was involved and it just gives you the the as we have a member of our community 90 years old and all the work she gave and I and I think that we have people that that uh will continue uh with that legacy as well. Uh let's see one more well I know that the for for the uh council members the Michigan municipally the capital conference is next week. I know that several of the council members are attending as well as uh members of staff and look forward to that educational opportunity for council and and those. Last item I have is I want to congratulate Jacob Lavau for his uh appointment this evening. And I I say that with thank you for your uh service here working for the city and

the service you provide to the community, but also your interest in taking on uh the uh position and task. It's a it's a it's a lot of work. It's a big lift, but I know you're up for it. I know that uh um also you have long been involved with the commission on environment just for your personal time of how you uh having that interest and I think you'll probably have even greater opportunities and relationship from the duties that you're going to take on uh with that relationship between our our water and wastewater uh departments and the commission on the environment. So congratulations. That's my comments for this evening. Uh clerk treasure lavoy.

Um I just have two comments. Uh, one, today was the last day to collect taxes um here at city hall. So, we'll enter the settlement period with the county. It's going to take several weeks and um the county is wonderful to work with. Uh they have made some changes with their database this year. So, we're it may take a little bit longer and what all that means for the residences or property owners is you're not able to pay um your property taxes um until that is finished. So, you're probably the best thing to do if you still have property taxes and you want to get over to the county, call our office first at city hall and we'll let you know if they're open to take the payments or not. It's uh it could take two weeks, it could take three weeks, and and if you call us, we'll we'll save you that extra trip. Um, and the other thing I wanted to say is it wasn't that long ago that I was in a meeting with Priscilla, and I didn't even remember she was 90 because she was she was leading the charge. Um I I'm on the uh involved with the United Way organization and she was just she was definitely a force and there's been a lot of loss for the United Way this last year, two years uh with the loss of Connie Carol as well and somebody made a comment that I'm sure that Priscilla was welcomed by Connie and I'm sure they were they were together and they were happy. So um wonderful wonderful woman.

She was and she'll long be remembered. It came to me as you were talking because it was St. Michael, we care the teleathon and and just this goes way back and it just the stuff that she was just uh she had so much energy and she had energy till the her last day here. So uh with that uh city manager comments I have no comments tonight. Okay, this time we'll take citizen comments. If there's a president here this evening wish to make a comment, please uh come forward, state your name, jurisdiction of residents and uh mindful of the uh council chamber rules of three minutes. Any comments from those present here this evening? Yes, please come forward.

Good evening, honorable mayor and council people. My name is Patricia D. Miles. I live in Van Baron Township. Uh but I have a lot of ties to Monroe. Um I used to come here every week for dance lessons down the street. Um and um I've done campaigning for Reggie Miller. Her district extends down to the Dundy area. Um but I've come here a lot. But uh recently I've been at the Detroit Institute of Arts and I seen um the presentation uh contemporary art of the Anishnab people and Anishnab Anishnabek means the people of uh like the Chipoa the Pawatami who were indigenous to this area and the Attawa that's the council of the three fires here in Michigan. Uh my tribe personally uh my tribe is the Chipoas of Rama in Canada but um well I seen a presentation there and um I was taken aback um it's um a picture of an art that an artist made of dead horses and um and uh let's And in the artist's words, and his name is um Gordon Coons, uh near the city of Cheyenne, Oklahoma is the historical site of Washittita. In history stories, it is called the Battle of Washittita. On November 27th, 1868, Kuster of the 7th US Calvary decided to attack. It was not a battle, but a

massacre of old men, women, and children. Lieutenant Colonel C. Kuster gathered 875 horses and mules, and he kept 225 of the animals and shot the rest, all 650 of them, and left them in a pile at the site. So, that moved me to think about that. Um maybe we need to remove this statue, you know, or you know, remove Kuster and keep the horse as a memorial to these horses. So um we have the uh anniversary of the Battle of the Little Big Horn coming up. That's 150th year anniversary and it would be nice if it was removed by then. Thank you. Other comments from those present here this evening. Other comments? Seeing none, um, we still have some item on our agenda. So, looking for a motion. Council Felder.

Yes, Sh. I'll make a motion that we enter in closed executive session for the purpose of attorney client privilege correspondence. by Councilman Fel Felder supported by Councilman her to go into executive close executive session for the reasons stated. Clerk, please call the role. Councy, yes. Stringham, yes. Selder, yes. Yes. Still, yes. Mayor Clark.