Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

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Good morning. I'd like to call this meeting to order. I am Order Woman, Chairwoman Milele A. Cox. We will be joined shortly to my right by Alderman Lamont Westmoreland. Also to the right, we are joined by Alderman Bauman, as well as DPW Infrastructure. To the left, we are joined by Ms. Carmen Roman, Staff Assistant. To her left, we are joined by Alderman Alex Brower to his left. We are joined by Alderwoman Larissa Taylor. So that's the committee, but we do have other Alders who are sitting with us. Alderwoman Jocasa Zamarripa and Alderman Peter Bergalis are also with us today. Before we begin, I do want to say apologies to those who may be here for item eight. There was an error on our part about what district this was in. In all fairness, since it does involve a denial, we just figured out it's actually in my district. In all fairness, I want the opportunity to speak with the applicant before we hear a file for denial here today. So I want the applicant for item number eight to know that we'll be holding that today.

They're online, I think.

Yeah. I just want them to know. I will be in touch because I do want to talk privately with you before it's scheduled again. First, item number 1, file number 260438, resolution relating to approving the levying of assessments and construction of accessible public improvement projects at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes.

Good morning, Holly Ruttenbeck with DPW. I will be advising on the special assessment process and project details. For those projects approved this morning, a bill will be sent to each property owner sometime after completion of the work. Within 45 days upon receipt of the bill, the full amount may be paid without interest. If the bill is not paid within the 45 day grace period, a charge of 8.5% simple interest per year will be added. If the assessment is at least $125, the assessment can be paid over a period of 10 years on the tax roll at 8.5% interest. For those projects approved with late billing, a bill will not be sent before January 1st, 2028. An official notice, a public hearing was sent to all impacted property owners and we will go through the projects in the order on the official notice. In the Fifth Aldermanic District, West Call Avenue from North 112th Street to North 113th Street installed traffic calming speed humps. Is there anyone here to provide testimony on this item? Out of four impacted properties, three were in favor and one was opposed. The older person is in support. Oh, wait, I don't want to speak for you. Sorry.

You did good. Okay, thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Any questions from committee? The motion by Alderman Westmoreland is for approval, adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered.

Continuing in the fifth alderman a district West Landglade Street from North 110th Street to North 112th Street install traffic calming speed humps Is there anyone here to provide testimony on this item? Out of 19 impacted properties 16 were in favor and three were opposed The motion by autumn and Westmoreland is for adoption are there any objections to that motion hearing none so ordered I In the 7th Aldermanic District, North 38th Street from West Keefe Avenue to West Capitol Drive, concrete pavement reconstruction and asphalt pavement resurfacing, replace curb and gutter, sidewalk and driveway approaches where necessary, sodding eight foot with tree border area grading and tree removal where necessary. Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item? Out of 102 impacted properties, only five were opposed. The Alderman supports the project.

Who approved?

The motion by Alderman Bauman is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered.

In the 9th Aldermanic District, West Green Tree Road from North 51st Street to North 60th Street installed traffic calming speed humps. Out of 43 impacted properties, only four were opposed.

Oh, great. Just a quick question about that one, if that's okay. So we requested two, so we're getting the two speed humps in that?

Actually, between North 51st and North 60th Street, it would be five proposed speed humps.

Awesome. Okay. And then so we're not doing the speed table at all?

Correct. Just speed humps. Just the speed humps. Okay.

I'll move for approval.

The motion by Audrey Woman Taylor is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered.

In the 10th Aldermanic District, North 49th Street from West Vine Street to West Lloyd Street, install traffic calming speed humps. Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item? Out of 32 impacted properties, only one was opposed and the Alderwoman supports the project.

The motion by Alderman Brower is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered. In the 11th Aldermanic District, South 37th Street from West Ruskin Street to West Lakefield Drive, install traffic calming speed humps. Is anyone here to provide testimony? Come on up.

Please state your name and address for the record. Thank you. My name is Excuse me, my name is Joette Rocco, and I live at 3640 West Lakefield Drive in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and 37th Street intersects with Lakefield, and I live on that corner. So as far as 37th Street goes, I live on that corner, I have a big picture window that looks out on 37th Street from Lakefield. I can sit there on a daily basis and watch people drive down 37th Street The speed limit is 25, 40, 45 miles an hour down Lakefield until they get to the four-way stop which they often run, the four-way stop. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone did not stop at the four-way stop and I wish I had five dollars for every time someone was going 35 or 40 miles an hour down 37th Street. So I'm really confused as to why the people on that street would not be in favor of putting some speed humps to slow the traffic except for the fact that sometimes living on that street I can see people pulling out of their driveways or coming down the street at a very fast pace and then pulling into driveways that are farther up that street. So I voted in, now I don't live on 37th, I live on Lakefield, but I did vote in favor for the speed humps on Lakefield. And I can't tell you how much we need some traffic calming measures in that area. We have people walking. We have people walking their pets. We have children riding bicycles and playing in these neighborhoods. And when I see the traffic and how it behaves in that area, it's just going to be a matter of time before something happens. And we did have a child get hit by a car on a bicycle a couple of years ago. So I would really, really like to see some traffic calming measures on 37th Street and on Lakefield Drive.

Thank you. Any questions from committee? Thank you. Is there anyone else here to testify on Lakefield Drive? All right, we have the representative from the 11th. Alderman Berger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. For 37th Street, 24 properties impacted, seven were opposed. For various reasons, mostly don't raise my taxes. We've added stop signs in the last few years near there. It's a very busy residential street that connects Oklahoma Avenue with Audubon School and also the college, Alverno. Most of the speeding that I've seen are school buses. But I do think that one speed hump on 37th Street between Russell and Lakefield would be beneficial to the neighborhood.

Any questions from committee?

Move approval.

The motion by Alderman Baumann is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered. Continuing in the 11th Aldermanic District, West Lakefield Drive from South 36th Street to South 38th Street, install traffic calming speed humps. Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item? Alderman Bergellis?

Yep, similar right around the corner from this. We had one opposed neighbor for this project. Move approval.

The motion by Alderman Bauman is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered.

Thank you all.

In the 12th Aldermanic District, South 11th Street from West Cleveland Avenue to a dead end north of West Cleveland Avenue installed traffic calming speed humps. Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item? There are 21 impacted properties. No aldermanic survey was performed because a donor on the block offered to pay all of the special assessments. And the alderman supports the project.

Is that secret who the donor is or not?

They haven't asked me to share their name, but yes, shout out.

The motion by Alderman Brower is for adoption. Hearing no objections, so ordered.

Wow.

Continuing in the 12th Aldermanic District, South 18th Street from West Lincoln Avenue to West Beecher Street, concrete pavement reconstruction, narrowing roadway, install permeable pavers in the west side parking lane, replace all curb and gutter and driveway approaches, replace sidewalk as necessary, sodding, five foot width tree border area grading, and tree removal where necessary. Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item?

How did they win the lottery to get permeable pavers? I'm just curious why this project and not others?

So I work directly with our green infrastructure group, and they perform a utility survey to determine if there are utilities that would be in conflict for putting in stormwater improvement. So the green infrastructure, either bioswales or pavement or permeable pavers, and on this street they determined that this was a good candidate.

Is that review done on every street reconstruction?

Yes, it is.

Okay.

Out of 55 impacted properties, two were in favor and three were opposed. So only five responded out of 55? Correct. And what is the local order? He did not indicate whether there was support or not.

And we already asked if anybody's present. Yes. Do we have a motion?

I'll move approval.

The motion by Alderman Bauman is adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Alderman Westmoreland will move adoption of the entire file. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so order item number two, file number 260439, resolution determining it necessary to make various accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes. with the city engineering cost estimated to be $30,000 for a total estimated cost of these projects being $470,000. And we do have a proposed substitute. Alderman Brower will move to have the substitute in front of us. Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered. Good morning. This is for setting up engineering on future accessible paving projects.

Any questions for our committee? Alderman Bauman would move adoption. Are there any objections for that motion? Hearing none, so order item number three, file number 26044, zero resolution determining it necessary to make various non-accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city engineering cost estimated to be $221,675 for a total estimated cost of these projects being $1,800,000 and we do also have another substitute. Arderman Westmoreland will move that we have the substitute in front of us. Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered. Good morning. This is setting up engineering for future non-assessable projects. Are there any questions from committee?

Hearing none, Alderman Brower will move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so order item number four, file number 260441, resolution improving construction of non-accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city construction costs estimated to be $4,915,000 for a total estimated cost of these projects being $6,122,000. and we do have a proposed substitute, Alderman Brower would move that we put the substitute in front of us. Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered. Morning. This is setting up construction funding for non-accessible projects.

Are there any questions from committee? Hearing none, Alderman Bond will move adoption. I'm hearing an objection, so order item number five, file number 260443, substitute resolution authorizing the Commissioner of Public Works to execute a project agreement titled Cost Sharing Memo of Understanding between the City of Milwaukee and the Brady Street Business Improvement District for the cost sharing of installing traffic calming on East Brady Street, North Farwell Avenue to North Van Buren Street and the 3rd Automatic District.

Good morning. So this is setting up a memo of understanding for the Brady Street bid to pay the cost of special assessments for the requested traffic calming improvements. And we do have the bid director here. I don't know if you want to come up and provide any information as well.

Madam Chair?

Yes, Audubon.

What's planned for Brady Street?

Three raised crosswalks and six concrete pinned on traffic islands to slow down traffic and also prevent any illegal passing or illegal parking to close the intersections.

And this will be executed this summer?

That is correct.

Okay.

Please state your name. My name is Anna Antoine and I'm the executive director of the Brady Street bid. We've been working with Alderman Brower and DPW on this project for, it's my understanding, almost years now, and it's been discussed through the businesses and with the residents and everybody is really excited about the possibility of having the traffic calming on Brady Street. It's really needed. People are speeding down Brady Street and they're just going. Any questions from committee?

ma'am sure ottoman brown yeah thank you so much so just wanna i just wanna um i would urge adoption of this um here and i'll make that motion in a moment but i just want to say how grateful i am for dpw and the engineering department to to get this done as fast as they could thank you so much and for the bid um i know that a lot of residents who live along brady street and property owners there are really pleased that the bid is um and just you know so that everybody is aware just like, just like this anonymous donor at the other, uh, with the other speed hump in a residential area, the bid is covering, um, the entire costs of the, um, levy assessment that would have been placed on those property owners. So I just really appreciate that. I think that demonstrates that the bid and the businesses along Brady street are committed to the safety and wellbeing of everybody on Brady street. So I just, I just really appreciate that. I know they've put in a bunch of work and Anna's just come in as the bid executive director. Our office has been really happy to work with her. Um, and, uh, With that, if there's nothing else, Madam Chair, I would move adoption.

Any other questions from committee? The motion by Alderman Brower is for adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. item number six file number two six zero three four three one four resolution directing the commissioner of public works to execute a document title seven three vision state municipal agreement for a state-led highway project with the wisconsin department of transportation for the programming design and real estate acquisition of west national avenue from 39th street to first street with a total estimated cost decrease for the project of 203 with an estimated decrease of grantor share of $2,678,850 and an estimated increase of city share of $2,475,150.

Good morning, David.

I mean 50, $150, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Good morning, David Tapia, Major Projects Manager. This file just came back from Common Council and so I'm here to answer any questions.

has the department of public works um discussed with um president perez the concerns that he um has and has that been addressed because i believe if i'm not mistaken that's why i was sent back yeah good morning everybody uh uh chairwoman and alders members of the committee uh kevin muse city engineer part of the department of public works yes i met with uh president perez uh

a little over an hour last Friday to discuss this. I think as he may have communicated, his primary concern is parking availability for the businesses in the area and we certainly understand and are sympathetic to that. There is Throughout the process of doing public outreach, there was a balancing act between what we were hearing from the public, which was overwhelmingly traffic calming pedestrian and bike and trees, and we did try to balance that based on the data we had from our parking study on parking on the corridor versus those uses. The east end of the corridor in particular gets pretty tight in the right of way, and so there is more balancing that needed to be done in that area, but I did meet with Alderman Perez on Friday.

on the memory but i know it touches our district to yes in fact i want to know for my colleagues that the bulk of the work happens in the eighth aldermanic district and uh... i attended multiple public information meetings over the years as we got ready for this huge project uh... and i do support it as you as my colleagues should recall i was very concerned because we literally have where we are under the wire and need to get this uh... need to get this going. The construction is already happening in my district and we don't want to delay construction any further. Businesses there in particular on National Avenue, which I invite you all to come and spend your money at, are certainly struggling and we want to get through to the finish line as soon as possible. So I am in support of this file, Madam Chair.

Are there any questions from committee? All right, Audubon Bama would move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Thank you. Item number seven, file number 260418, resolution directing the commissioner of public works to execute a document titled Second Revision State Municipal Agreement for a state-led STP urban project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the programming, design, and construction of West Lisbon Street. North 100th Street to West Burleigh Street.

So this file allows us to utilize legacy funds that the Department of Transportation had left over and apply them to the project.

Are there any questions from committee?

No, but a comment. I was over there yesterday and it absolutely looks beautiful. The work that's already been done on that stretch.

Well, it's beautiful.

your your area appreciate that any other questions or comments on committee

Alderman Westmoreland will move adoption. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Item number 8, file number 251255, substitute resolution denying that honorary name F.M. Eason to North Palmer Street from West Townsend Street to West Concordia Avenue in the 6th Automatic District. Alderman Tyler will move to hold this item as was stated earlier. in the meeting. Are there any objections to holding? Hearing none, so ordered. Item number nine, file number 260170, substitute resolution to vacate the eastern portion of 12th Lane between West Cherry Street and the Northern Alley in the 15th Automatic District.

Thank you, Chairwoman Coggs and committee members. Taylor Jones, DCD Planning. Item nine is a request to vacate the eastern 4.98 feet of 12th Lane between West Cherry Street and the Northern Alley to correct historical recording inaccuracies which were found by the surveyor when submitting the certified survey map associated with this development. The proposed vacation would accommodate the new view development shown oh, not there, which is a mixed-use development by New Life Community Development. Dave Rhodes from GCS Construction Company is also here to answer questions you may have about the development. The applicant has submitted for costs associated with the vacation to the Department of Public Works. The vacation will not restrict access to private property nor reduce the city's ability to provide services to residents. Staff finds the proposed vacation would not be detrimental to the city and recommends approval. City Plan Commission also recommended approval. Thank you.

Are there any questions from committee? Hearing none, Alderman Brower would move adoption. Are there any objections for that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Thank you. Good luck. Item number 10, file number 250157, substitute resolution to Vacate the east-west alley north of West Cherry Street between North 12th Street and North 12th Lane in the 15th Automatic District.

Thank you. This is also for the new view development. Item 10 is a request to vacate in East West Alley. The applicant has submitted payment for costs associated with the vacation to the Department of Public Works. The vacation will not restrict access to private property nor reduce the city's ability to provide services to residents. Staff finds the proposed vacation would not be detrimental to the city and recommends approval. City Planning Commission also recommended approval.

Any questions on committee? Hearing no, Alderman Westmoreland will move for adoption. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Item 11, resolution authorizing permanent and temporary limited easement with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the properties at 2237 North 7th Street and 3463 North 8th Street to assist in the improvements for the Interstate Highway 43 project in the 6th Automatic District. Alderman Brower would move to have the substitute put before us. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Do we have anybody present to speak on item 11? All right, Alderman Bauman moves to hold item 11. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Item number 12, file number 260399, resolution authorizing execution of the Department of Natural Resources principle for giving financial assistance program. Do we have anyone present to speak on item 12? Alderman Westmoreland will move to hold to the call of the chair. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Item number 13, file number 260227, a substitute ordinance relating to native plants. And this is sponsored by Alderman Brower. Alderman Brower, did you want to speak before we have the department speak?

Yeah, first of all, I want to thank everybody, all the folks over in LRB who helped to make this a reality. This legislation is coming out of a need from constituents in our district and across the city who've reached out, who want to be able to basically replace lawns. We know that the current lawn culture that exists here in this country doesn't comport with sustainability or with supporting native plant species or animal species or insects and pollinators and all these things where we have habitat loss occurring across this country and in Wisconsin due to development. and the proliferation of basically just mowed lawns that don't support biodiversity. So this ordinance is going to allow, it is my attempt to allow for residents here in the city of Milwaukee to replace their lawns with native plantings to allow for the creation of pollinator and insect and natural species habitat within the city of Milwaukee and to allow them to avoid being penalized or in a case that happened here in the city of milwaukee have their native plantings actually cut down by our department of neighborhood services um which did happen because there wasn't a way within our ordinance so there wasn't a way um for dns to to say oh yes this is a this is a native planting versus just somebody is just letting their grass grow uncultivated in any sort of way so this this creates that avenue um and i um Yeah, I really appreciate all the work that's gone into this and I appreciate the constituents that reached out and residents to help make this a reality here.

All right, go ahead, I do have a question, I want you to talk.

Okay, Erin Stoeckel, Forestry Services Manager. Just wanted to communicate the department's support of the ordinance. The Forestry Department is what, the governing body that enforces the tall grass and weed ordinance for the city of Milwaukee. There's just a couple of things that we manage and that's one of them But I'm glad to see it legislated. I think it helps codify what we would like to do in practice although it's not without exception that occasionally we make a mistake and like native plants sometimes are Unfortunately mode but in general it's our our views too that natives should be supported and it's just helps codify that and kind of lay out some general guidelines for residents that want to do this in a way that is protected and legal by a city ordinance and

Who decides what's intentional and deliberate design-wise?

Well, I would say like that combined with the piece that says it has to be native plants. Those are like hand in hand. So if it's intentional, to me, that's the difference between I've actually gone and purchased and installed or planted native plants versus I've just let my grass grow. grow and I stopped mowing and called it a native garden and that's not a native garden. So this helps I think delineate that difference because we've seen that issue on the other side of it too of people calling and saying like oh this is a native wildlife supported area but it really doesn't go very far even biologically speaking if you don't also incorporate native plants and actually intentionally design it that way.

Okay, what about the green space between the curve and the sidewalk adjacent to people's property?

So people are allowed to plant in that space. I think the section of this ordinance also specifies it can't obstruct any sight lines or vision from either the sidewalk or any other right-of-way. And that's the same kind of practice that we follow, whether it's a native plant or not. If you're in the tree border or that right-of-way space, the plants can't grow over three feet tall or any way obstruct traffic or sight lines. And so three feet is like the height limit there. So if people did plant native plants, they would have to choose to pick species that don't grow very tall.

Would they only be able to do it to that grassy area adjacent to their own property? Yes, yeah.

What about neighbor complaints? So I think part of this like having a little bit of an intentionality behind it too, you know some of the things that we recommend are like you know mowing a little border around the native area or showing some kind of like visual way of delineating what you're growing versus like just a neglected property. But we would be on behalf of like the resident who actually is growing the native plants helping to like point and educate to what their neighbor is actually doing and I think this ordinance helps us do that too.

Madam Chair. for forestry does this um does creating this framework allow us to in some way i know that for no mo may we actually have in the ordinance a specific registry yeah of those properties um this this particular ordinance as written doesn't stop us from establishing some sort of registry that forestry then can know which properties are doing this or um is there a way maybe we can just to kind of you know so that we know definitively whether okay here's a native plant property this is the or this is one that's just um you know we don't want to just say that a unmowed yard and now all of a sudden has one milkweed plant right right yeah it's now a native planting right so yeah is there would this stop us from establishing something like that under our administration i don't think it would stop us by any means um but we would have to look into that a little more of like i mean we have a registry like you said for nomo may um but if it if

if we were to go that route like and we wanted to make it like that's the requirement then there probably would need to be an adjustment to the language like to say that you have to be a registered native plant garden or whatever but aside from that i want to also say that it's our forestry technicians that are usually laying eyes on each of these properties and they have horticultural knowledge so while i well i know occasionally Unfortunately, sometimes natives are mowed. I would say it's the minority because we do have a lot of technical expertise of people who can recognize and identify native species.

And so with the administration, would your department be comfortable then without a specific registry being included in the ordinance?

I would be comfortable with that. Okay.

Being able to implement this and potentially in the future, maybe we could look at something like that, but it sounds like this could be implementable as soon as this is signed by the mayor to protect these yards. Yes.

Okay.

Madam chair.

Um, well, it sounds like a nice idea. Um, But you said that, I guess in here, all those specifics that you guys were just talking about, like the three feet, that's not in here. And then there's no registry, which I think we probably should have a registry, because otherwise you end up with what Alderman Breller was just saying, one plant, and then someone might say that, well, I have a... native native garden yeah uh and then also there is in here for the no more may that um people would get a sign from the department so with that are they registering and then would you mail the sign out or do they have to come pick it up but they have to display that sign right to help with that kind of communication to the community right of like i meant to do this and I just, when we do it, just make sure all the specifics are there. So I would like to have it redone so that those specifics are in there.

So you're aware, too, like the three-foot rule isn't in this legislation, but it is in other legislation. Oh, it is? Okay. There are, like, guidelines for planting in the tree border that I don't... So it exists, although it might not be specifically referenced here. Should it be, though? I'm not...

Who wrote this? Which LRB person?

I remember who was the... Chris is here from LRB. I would just opine generally that one section of a law doesn't need to reference every single other applicable piece. The speed limit laws don't need to say that you also have to be sober while you're driving. That's a different statute that could be enforced concurrently when that happens. I don't necessarily think as a matter of you know promulgation of the law is that we need to like reference every single thing that's also applicable in that situation you also can't just like you know put your car on the terrace i mean either way right so but um anyway i yeah um

Can we state the question? I'm sorry, I just want to make sure that I'm answering you. Why the three foot thing is not in here? So I believe that that is forestry policy, right?

I don't know the, I'd have to look, I don't have the, I couldn't cite it right now, but yeah.

The way that this was written was essentially to be able to give forestry a lot of discretion when it came to those sorts of things. Forestry already has, when speaking with them, they already have specific policies when it comes to how they deal with the Hell Strip area in particular. And then the remainder of it was really addressing the lawns specifically. What we tried to do was give as much flexibility to the people who are trying to plant and also forestry when it comes to enforcement. So we just wanted to make sure that it wasn't obstructing anything and it wasn't encroaching on anything, was sort of what we were aiming for.

So is the three feet in ordinance or in practice?

I thought it was ordinance, but we'll have to double check.

My understanding was it was forestry's policy, but I can look that up though.

Also if I could just speak to like the, because I would and I'm concerned too about the single milkweed as an example. Thought about that with this legislation, the piece that specifies that it has to be a native species or a native cultivar, or a cultivar of a native species. I think that solves it for me, because if you have one milkweed growing in just a lot of Kentucky bluegrass, Kentucky bluegrass isn't really a native species, so that kind of covers it, where you could have that single milkweed, but you still have to mow all the way around it. It doesn't kind of exempt you from doing everything because you have one native plant you know what I mean like that one native plant is protected but you still have to mow your turf grass you still have to keep your property free from any noxious weeds I think that's like part of one of the lines of the legislation too so

And if I may, too, as well, speaking as someone who currently has a tremendous amount of plastic over their backyard trying to kill it, planting with natives does take a tremendous amount of intentionality. It's very, very difficult, especially if you're trying to eliminate non-native stuff that is already there.

For what it's worth, in my experience, in the code enforcement side of things, whenever there's a question of like, is this a native garden or not, or somebody says this was a native planting, we don't really have to go much farther past asking them, what did you actually plant? And then it's usually over because they didn't actually plant anything.

So why aren't we doing the registry? Because if you're registering for no more May, I mean, it doesn't sound like it would be a difficult task to just have people register for the native garden for their lawn.

I would leave that to the will of the committee. I don't think it's, I think it could work either way because we can, if I didn't have the technical side of it in my department to be able to recognize it, I would be more concerned and would want that registry there. I guess then the question would be if you're not registered and you do have a native garden, are you still good? You know what I mean? Just register. Okay. That's good. Yeah.

I think that from a drafting standpoint, part of the reason that that did not come up was just concerns about adoption, that fewer people would adopt it if you require registration. It's just one more barrier. That was the technical reason why it wasn't put in. Again, that's a policy question, but that is why it is not in there.

Madam Chair.

Alderman Brower.

I'm fine with adding a registration component between now and council day as to create a substitute. If people, if that would help gain support. I mean, I'd be curious what other people think. I think that, you know, discretion of the, I mean, what we're talking about in practicality is a complaint is lodged and a forestry employee goes out to do a field examination of the, of the property in question and would then therefore based on their knowledge. I mean, I've done right along with you guys, you've got no plants and, like they would they would make a determination right there yeah this is or isn't and they would potentially make an attempt to contact the resident or property owner um at that time to make to maybe ask some questions um so and and if they're not registered i mean we wouldn't want them to just like mode that down if there's no registration we'd want to then say okay please register so in some ways the

creating the registration element doesn't i mean we would have the same result whether there's not a register whether there's a registration or not there might be an additional administrative i don't i guess everything additional steps might be an additional administrative cost to the communication that would be needed if we come across the native garden and then want to do that outreach you know, it's another letter to send or something if you can't, if nobody's home to let them know that they would have to register going forward.

And that is a complaint that we do get, you know, around these parts on city hall that like there's all forms that have to be filled out all the time and then later. And so this would add, I mean, in a, very practical way, add another layer of bureaucracy to that rather than just the agent of forestry's discretion on site on the spot. But I'm not, I don't want to die on this. I mean, I'd be curious whether people think like, I'd like to get this, you know, going so that, you know, so that for the remainder of this year, anybody who has a native planting can keep it without risk of it being mowed by forestry. So I would like this to get passed by the end of our council cycle.

There's a couple of ways that you can do that. One is we could hold it here today and you could add council pull it with the amended version. We could pass it here today and you could put a substitute at council with the amendment in there. I wonder, and Chris, you may know more than I, is that something that we could just verbally amend here today?

Yeah, that'd be fine. You just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll put together the sum and add it to the final.

I'm fine with adding a registration. So I think we could, and I would like to have this passed today, and I could have a substitute by council that would require registration.

I think what Chris is saying is you can make the motion a substitute here today, so what will appear at council will reflect that substitute.

Oh, thank you. I'm sorry. I would like to make that motion then to substitute here today.

I believe at meetings it does not need to be written. At council meetings it does need to be written, but at committee meetings it does not need to be written.

Madam Chair, we still need to verify that three-foot rule, whether it's an ordinance or a practice.

Yeah. If I may too, just another thing with the registry, it probably would be something you have to do annually as property owners change and levels of maintenance change too. So I wouldn't want it to be like I registered and then I just, and then now it's been neglected. It doesn't, you know, like some flexibility to... It's not an automatic. Like you register, we verified it's native today. That is not for in perpetuity because the conditions of the property could change.

I was imagining it would be annual. If we did a scheme like this, that it would be an annual registration and potentially a fee associated with that to cover the cost of us handling all that.

The motion by Alderman Brower is to amend this file to add a requirement for a registry annually. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so order, before we take the vote, to Auderman Taylor's point, if between now and council, you guys can let us know if the three feet is in the ordinance or in policy. All right. Auderman Brower will move approval, I mean adoption. Adoption. Passage. Passage. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Alderman Westmoreland will move reconsideration of item 11. file number 260303, resolution authorizing permanent and temporary limited easements with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the properties at 2237 North 7th Street and 3463 North 8th Street to assist in the improvements for the Interstate Highway 43 project in the 6th Automatic District.

Good morning, committee. Rosita Ross with the Department of City Development regarding that file that you just cited. The property at 2237 North 7th Street, DOT is looking to acquire 45 feet as a fee title for ADA compliance for the improvement project that they're working on on the highway. There is a temporary limited easement for their construction products that they'll be placing on the land. This foul will not hamper any future developments for this parcel. Actually, it would be a benefit for the people in the community who are ADA and the sidewalk to be a little bit widened. Do you have any questions regarding that?

Any questions from committee? Hearing none, Alderman Taylor would move. Do we have a substitute in front of us?

Yes, you do.

There was a substitute.

We reconsider and then she was doing that. We need a motion. Okay.

First, Alderman Taylor will move that we have the proposed substitute in front of us. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Next, Alderman Baumann will move adoption. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Thank you. Thank you. Item number 14, file number 260403, resolution approving sites for federally funded electric vehicle charging stations.

Good morning, Madam Chair. I'm Eric Schambarger, the Environmental Sustainability Director with the Environmental Collaboration Office. I'm joined today by Nathan Coe, our Electric Vehicle Coordinator. As most of you will remember, we have about a $15 million federal grant to build a public electric vehicle charging network. This resolution approves this second batch of sites. There are 26 sites. Each of the sites that are listed there We have a letter of intent from the private property owner specifying that they are serious about this. And so we look forward to any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Can you remind us what those sites are?

They are in the file. So there's 26 of them. There are two at UWM.

I actually don't see them in the file.

So it's the third attachment?

I don't even see attachments on here. Do you guys see it?

I do, yeah. It's for 260403.

You're looking online.

Oh yeah, I'm on Legistar. I'm on the public-facing web portion. It's Exhibit A, Batch 2 Sites, Version 2 is the name of the file.

Okay, this is just that Granicus isn't updated.

I can run through them.

I'm familiar because of other files, but for the public, go ahead.

Yes, sure. So there are two sites at UWM, the Chapman lot and the Cunningham lot. There are three Milwaukee County Park sites, including Hoyt Park, McKinley Park parking lot right across from the Colectivo parking lot. in the Cool Waters Aquatic Park in Greenfield. There is the Milwaukee Athletic Club structure on 777 North Milwaukee Street. So there's about, we've got one, two, three, four, five lots that are controlled by interstate parking downtown. So it's the Milwaukee Athletic Club, the Lake Lot on Van Buren, Safe Lot on 431 North Milwaukee Street, Sixth and State near MATC, and that lot would be level three fast chargers. Gimbel's parking structure on Michigan near the Grand Avenue Mall. Sherman Phoenix, Century City Tower on Hope and 27th Street. Pettit National Ice Center, Office of African American Affairs, Midtown Center. The city-owned parking lot on 1915 East North Avenue on the east side. The Milwaukee County Zoo. The Applecrest Plaza on 10202 West Silver Spring Drive at Applecrest Shopping Center. Let's see, Hart's Mill Lot, that's in the Tosa Village. We have the Shorewood Village Hall on Murray Avenue. The Wellpoint Care Network on 8901 West Capitol Drive. The outpost on East Capitol Drive, that would be a fast charger. And the outpost in Bayview, on Kinnickinickin Bayview, that would also be a fast charger. Holiday Inn and Suites near the airport. MPS Central Services Building, which is on Bleat Street, and that is open to the public and kind of a nice shopping area. And then the MPS Milwaukee Recreational Community Center on North 76th Street.

The ones that are not in the city of Milwaukee, why are we doing those? Or is that part of the grant?

So in the original file, we had said that we could do up to six within Milwaukee County, but outside of the city limits. And those particular mayors had stepped forward when we were trying to do some collaborative work. climate work. The other thing I would say is that most people who drive EVs, you know, aren't limited to just the city. They, you know, travel around the area at large, but. Okay.

Any other questions from committee?

Yeah, Madam Chair.

I don't remember.

Yeah, refresh our recollection. Where you're locating these chargers on private property, what's the arrangement with the property owner?

Yes. So this is a $15 million federal grant, which requires a 20% cost share. which the city does not have. So we are, the plan is that we would issue an RFP in this coming week to hire a, basically through a public private partnership, hire a private sector provider who would provide the 20% match, as well as have a credit card situation where somebody would pay to use the stations. So the letter of intent basically says the site host agrees to allocate four parking spots on the site and they agree to allow basically a private vendor to install these on their site for a period of at least five years. And so the value add to the properties is it's an amenity that they can have to their customers. So the revenue is for the private operator And we have said in the RFP, we've sketched out that there will be a negotiation for some form of revenue sharing. Obviously they'll have to be able to recoup their costs for putting in their own private investment. What we don't know is, and we don't know how lucrative these are gonna be. We don't know if they're gonna be, make a ton of money or make no money or be a loser, so we're putting the risk and the investment on the private sector with some opportunity for revenue sharing if they really do work well.

Do you have private sector entities willing to do this?

Well, we're gonna find out with our RFP, but we're paying.

So it may come back with no proposals?

It may. It's possible.

And of course the money is frozen so we don't have this money in the bank from the federal government, correct?

So, correct. So we have a $15 million contract of which we have access to the engineering money and we have, use the engineering money to pay for city staff, engineering staff, to do all of the environmental reviews and all of that stuff. All of that was required in the original contract. It said we have to do all the environmental reviews before they release the money. We have done that on the first 13 sites. We are asking for your approval to then start that big long process on this next batch of sites.

How much has been spent down of the grant?

Couple hundred thousand dollars.

Really, that's it?

Yeah, I would say, I mean, I can get you the exact number, but it's under a million.

I mean, is somebody in the city government monitoring this?

Yes, our office manages this grant. So we only have access to the engineering money and the staff for Mr. Koh here. So we are using that for salaries and the engineering money. As for the federal money that has been frozen, there is a lawsuit. The state attorney general has filed a lawsuit along with about 13 other states to release the funds, which have been allocated by Congress. And moreover, we are also in discussions with the State Department of Transportation to use the state money for what's called the NEVI network to potentially go for the first 13 sites that already have, where we already got the NEPA approval.

Who's obligated to provide ongoing maintenance?

the private sector provider. So it is called a design, build, operate, maintain and finance arrangement. So they have standards that the federal government has set forth for uptime and all of that.

So solely for the potential revenue stream at the Charter's January?

That's the theory, yes. So Quick Trip has done it. I don't understand why that's funny because Quick Trip has done it already on many of their stations through the state program. There are charge point, there are a small number of private sector providers already in the city. But we are very.

Can you give me a list of the providers in the city?

Sure.

I would love to see that.

So there's a common website plug share that lists chargers around the country. So there are many places in the country that have these already. But Milwaukee is pretty far behind, I would say, in the number of chargers.

If is, have you given thought to, um, when it's, when you do put out the RFP, what if it's providers who don't want all of the sites? Have you all given thought to, I'm sorry, can you repeat that? Have you, whenever you do do the RFP or whatever for that private sector vendor, have you given thought to what if they don't want all of the sites?

Yeah.

So more than one vendor for the sites.

Yeah. I mean, I think, um, Part of the rationale for doing it in batches like the way we did was so that we could try to get a contract and get a vendor to go and see it. Let's see how they do on the first 13 before we pledge that they get everything, right? So that, yeah, I mean, I think we want to see how they do. We want to see what kind of bids we get back and then go from there and again, try to trying to do this incrementally, but we're also trying to manage through a whole big haze of fog with, you know, the federal government. Are they going to pay for this? Are they not?

And in a technical way, whenever we do, if we do get some good responses and we do go with a vendor, that final contract and the terms of that revenue share and all that kind of stuff, that will come back to the committee to be voted on, right?

If you'd like approval for the, are you asking for approval for the actual contract with the vendor? Is that?

Yeah. That would be, it will come back, right, to finance or something?

It wouldn't have to, but I mean, I guess we could if you want to review it. I don't have an issue with that.

Yeah. I just would think because of the amount likely that it would, anyway, I was just checking. I personally would like to see the contract before it goes. I don't know if the whole council does or whatever, but I would have thought, because of the likely amount, that it would have to come back before finance, once you select the vendor.

Yeah, I mean, so the one time crunch that we have with the state DOT is they are trying to obligate their funding before September 30th of this year. So we just heard of this opportunity in the last month because, so we anticipate that we would take the first 13 sites that were already approved. So for the reminder, those were at the libraries, six or seven libraries and six county parks. So we were planning to apply for the state funding for those. And that might be a little bit of a time crunch there.

When are you putting up the RFP for that?

So we are trying to get it finalized this week. I was waiting on it because I was like, is anybody gonna bid on this if we don't know about it?

That there's more?

That there's federal money coming, right? Like if I'm a bidder and it takes a lot of money to put an RFP, I don't know I'm bidding on it if I don't know if there's a project there. But when the state said that they likely have some money to apply for this, I was like, okay, I think we gotta go.

Thank you. Any other questions on committee?

I'm sure. Yeah, I'm looking at this website, PlugShare.com, that you referenced, Eric, and we've got, it looks like there are several operators within the city of Milwaukee that might be interested in this, ZEF Energy, ChargePoint, Tesla Destination, BRF, but yeah, so there could potentially be people and entities that will bid on the operation of this if we decide to move forward. Obviously, I'd be a fan of, in the future, this being publicly available or publicly operated and publicly done, but I think at this point, given some of the unknowns and some of the capital requirements, we may have to look elsewhere at this point.

Any other questions from the committee?

Madam Chair.

Go ahead.

I forgot to ask earlier. Eric, given that, when are we looking at these being installed?

I would say hopefully the first batch is 2027. The original plan was that we would have the charges going this year, but since they were sitting on the money, it was hard to, you know, a lot of it is up in the air about when we can actually get this funding. And, of course, I don't really have a good sense of the timing of the lawsuit and when that would get resolved. So, again, hoping to get something installed in 2027 at this point. Thank you.

All right. There are no other questions. Alderman Brower would move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered.

Thank you.

Item 15, file number 260425, resolution authorizing an exclusive right to negotiate with U.S. Venture Inc. for the city-owned parcel at 1776 South Harbor Drive, Parcel F at Port Milwaukee in the 14th Automatic District.

good morning madam chair and committee members benji tim director of port milwaukee i'm joined here by neil franti from u.s energy so parcel f is a three and a half acre parcel in the port it's currently adjacent to u.s ventures current leasehold they've been a long-term tenant for about 12 years now there they use the bulk liquid cargo pier as well as their facility for Managing ethanol and some other products that are coming moving in and out of the port. So We're they have requested two-year exclusive right to negotiate so that we can work out a new lease We would of course once that lease is negotiated come back to both the Board of Harbor Commissioners and the Common Council to get it approved and with all the details They're going to pay us $5,000 a year for this, right? I That's essentially it. Any questions?

Any questions from committee? Hearing none, Alderman Westmoreland would move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so order item number 16. Thank you. You're welcome. File number 260482, resolution authorizing the City of Milwaukee's Department of Public Works, Milwaukee Water Works, and other city departments to execute a participation agreement between the City of Milwaukee and the Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System to participate in the Panther Edge Internship Program. And this is sponsored by Audit Woman Moore. Audit Woman Moore, I see you're on the board. Did you want to say something? You would need to unmute. Audit Woman Moore.

Well, my apologies, you all. I am with my interns and since the meeting's starting a little late, we are late to our meeting, so I apologize. Yes, I am in support of this item. I think the author is there to share a little bit about what it does.

Thank you. Please start your name. Good morning. Jane Islow, Water Works Administration Manager with Milwaukee Water Works.

Good morning, Madam Chair. Alexander Fondas, City Attorney's Office.

Carrie Smith, Department of City Development. I'm here because we worked together on updating this contract so that it was something that could be used by all city departments. So we worked closely with them for quite some time to come to a renewed contract for this internship program with UWM.

So just a little bit of background. This is a standard, I guess I would call it a standard student internship program at UWM. And there was a previous incarnation known as the Community Learning Internship Program or CLIP. Waterworks and I believe DCD both employed interns through that program. But UWM recently rebranded the program and required a participation agreement and that's what brought us to have to kind of work through that process and seek your approval to sign those documents so that we can get this restarted. Certainly speaking for Water Works, this has created a pipeline. We had just recently had a student in an internship in fall of 25, they graduated, applied for a water chemist position and they're on board now. So we're very eager to get this restarted so that we can bring more interns in.

All right. Any questions from committee? Um, our woman, Taylor will move, um, adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Very nice. So ordered. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Item seven, file number 260415, communication from the Department of Public Works Infrastructure Services Division relating to a statement of mid-year review of financial condition of the sewer maintenance fund.

Good morning, Madam Chair and committee. Kurt Sprangers, engineer in charge of the sewer maintenance fund. The file before you here is a requirement to inform this body of financial status of the fund. So it's comparing the revenues generated by the fund against the debt service of the fund and look at that ratio and then it has to meet certain thresholds. So the backup information is in the file, but the ratios are above the required minimums.

Any questions from committee?

Yeah, I do have a question. Are we adequately maintaining our system? There's been considerable media coverage of some major backup issues, flooding issues, and now the clogged outlet. which is presumably MMSD, but I mean, fine, we're financially well off, but are we adequately investing in and maintaining the existing infrastructure and making sure these catch basins are cleaned out and making sure that blockages throughout the system are eliminated in light of the significant property damage? This is fine, the numbers add up, I get it, but I think people are interested in way more than just the numbers adding up.

Sure, no, I understand. The file that was at this committee I think last cycle is sort of a review of our practices and procedures in terms of the amount of maintenance that we do. That's the one that goes, it's called CMAR, but it's a DNR process and we get a grade on that. That came back positive. We do look at how we compare with other municipalities. I guess maintenance is one of those things you could always do more, but we do try and meet some of our targets in terms of frequency of cleaning basins, frequency of cleaning sewers. We do track the number of clogs in our own system. So yeah, these are all things that we're definitely aware of and working towards.

How many miles of sewer relay do we do every year?

Relay we are in the neighborhood of usually between 7 and 11 miles or relayed per year that includes lining as well as actual physical That includes the lining work.

Yes, okay And how many total miles do we have? About about 2,500 total 2,500 miles of okay. Thank you It is that an adequate replacement rate

In the sense of just the strict number of miles per year, there probably will be at some point that may be an issue, but in terms of the amount of miles of sewer that we identify as needing to be replaced, it definitely seems to be adequate.

Okay.

Any other questions from committee?

I just wanna put this out here. State your name, sir. Sure, my name is Jesse Hagan. I'm a senior financial analyst with the city of Milwaukee's comptroller office. Just to look at something that we're gonna be reacting to, there's been a change in accounting of how the city's fees for stormwater management, how they're paying for a lot of the street sweeping and those type of fees. So in the past, they were just looked at as a transfer um the sewer fund to the city i'm sorry thank you they were looked at as just a transfer outside of this calculation and process but recently there's been some changes that will affect fiscal year 2026 and going forward that move those change move those those transfers to operating costs and so what what that's what's going to happen is that you 2026 is fine we do meet the thresholds in 2026 but in starting in 2027 we will not meet the second lean debt coverage ratio that we need to hit in order to qualify for the wisconsin dnr's favorable loan terms and so i think we were walking through some calculations i think you know there may be an additional revenue two percent of revenue or something like that for fiscal year 2027 would be needed to kind of make sure that we have that headroom on that coverage ratio so i we talked about this um they're kind of thinking about what that's going to mean for the fiscal year 2027 budget so just something to watch out for all right any questions from committee mentor

Alderman Brower.

Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate you guys coming here and being accountable to elected officials in this way. I would agree and echo the sentiments of Alderman Bauman that, you know, just broadly, nothing is too nice for the residents of Milwaukee, right? And nothing, so our residents deserve the best. know when it comes to this and so i just i want to underline that i think that you know the maintenance of this stuff obviously the issues that happen in bayview that are the subject of the letter that alderman dimitrievich and other electeds from bayview signed um hugely important obviously that's that's mmsd but there's you know it's all it's all synergistic right we should be setting the standard um for how everything is cleaned out and how everything is maintained and if there's you know an a change in the way that we're accounting for things that might result in it maybe financially not looking as great, well, then we just need to either bring in more revenue or get more revenue from the state or in some way improve that financial picture. But in no way should that result in a lessening of services. In fact, what I think what I want and what my residents want is an increase in services, you know, and so things, you know, can be cleared out. I do also appreciate that we should be looking holistically at this. I mean, I'll just say that I think that, you know, making sure that we're, you know, I appreciate the commissioner's commitment to regular street sweepings across the city and even in exemption parking areas. That's going to be a critical piece of, making sure that things are things are cleared out once the um once we can um you know get the get the rip rip the legislature from the snowflake woke conservatives that won't let us ban takeout containers here we can ban these plastic bags we can ban these takeout containers that end up going into the sewer and clogging things in the first place these single-use plastic disposables that now were with these funds that you all are presenting on you know dealing with right and that's a so it's a really unfortunately, politically, unfortunately, unfortunately, a politically synergistic situation that where it's going to require everybody to, you know, work together. So I appreciate that from the commissioner that we're going to be sweeping more. I want to, you know, I appreciate hearing commitment from you that we want top notch services and cleaning schedules and replacement schedules. I, we want all those things, even if, um, I think, like I said, Milwaukee residents deserve nothing but the best here, so I appreciate that, but I'll just also offer for the rest of the committee that it is also synergistic. We have to change. We have to change what we do, you know, as far as our politics here in Wisconsin to be able to, you know, really capture the real problems. I mean, there's all kinds of disposables that are ending up in our city sewer system. I mean, I think that, and maybe I'd be curious if that is what you guys are finding on the ground with our crews, that it's the disposables or what else that could be, that we could actually prevent, no pun intended, upstream from going in and causing some of these backups and issues.

yeah definitely i mean the the trash and debris that we find in the catch basin grates is certainly a concern it was in april um but any storm event it can be a problem as those wash from parking lots and wherever else down to our uh to our catch basins for sure uh are you done i am thank you autumn environment uh the cost of catch basin clean out and street sweeping is any of that covered by the sewer maintenance fund or is that tax levy That is all covered by the Super Maintenance Fund. So street cleaning, street sweeping is? Oh, I'm sorry, street sweeping. So that's part of the transfer that goes to Forestry. That's part of that $27 million. So there's a transfer from the Maintenance Fund to Forestry?

Correct. To fund some or all of their street sweeping costs?

Yeah, I believe it's a portion of street sweeping, tree trimming, and I thought there was a third one that I'm blanking on at the moment.

And the sewer maintenance fee is collected from tax exempt entities as well as? Correct. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Thank you.

Any other questions from committee? Hearing none, Alderman Bauman would move to place on file. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Thank you. Next up, we have item 18, file number 260484, communication from WE Energies and other agencies relating to rate cases current before the state of Wisconsin's Public Service Commission, as well as the impact of the recent proliferation of data centers. And this is sponsored by Alderman Brower. Alderman Brower, did you want to speak?

Yeah, thank you so much, Madam Chair. I really appreciate it. I believe we do have representatives from WEC Energy Group, so I would invite them to come forward at this time. They did submit. I appreciate it. They responded to our email and are able to come out this morning to talk with us. I appreciate the conversation. I believe they have a presentation as well that they can share. So I would actually say that before we get into a huge conversation, I would love to hear and see this presentation that they have here before us today. Thank you all for coming in. Really appreciate it. But broadly, I continue to get calls and contacts from residents that are concerned about the situation here with rates. And especially this communication file also talked about the proliferation of data centers. That is a huge issue politically right now. And so I'm really appreciative of WeEnergy's coming in here. But I do have questions, but I want to hear their presentation first. I have questions that I'd like to ask. I know other members of this committee and constituents have submitted questions to me as well.

If you could please state your name and who you are.

Sure. Thank you, Chair Coggs and other members of the committee for inviting us to speak here today. My name is Burt Garvin. With me is Michelle Beneshek and Jennifer Buchanan. I understand the committee has some questions for us about the rate filing we made this past spring and we're happy to address those questions. To set the stage, I do have to go through a short presentation we put together, the team put together, we'd like to go through that explains some of the important details of the filing and also addresses the committee's interest in talking about data science. I just want to make sure I can share the presentation. Thank you. okay is that thank you carmen this isn't my computer so i'm okay so that's fine we should be able to get it up for you is that i mean that's the screen i hit this year

What is your position again?

My position? I'm the executive VP for external affairs at the parents. So we have seven utilities. I'm responsible for the regulatory for compliance and government affairs for the corporation.

Thank you.

Okay. And Michelle, you want to?

Yes. So I am vice president of Wisconsin field and system operations. So I do have Lee energies under my umbrella.

Do you want to sit?

And internship and apprenticeship director for our high school student programs and also some of our adult programs.

Can you give your name again? What was your name?

Jennifer Buchanan. Buchanan? Mm-hmm.

So just so move it here I Okay, so after the technical challenges, we have about 10 slides. I'm gonna go through six or seven, and then I'll turn it over to Michelle and Jennifer. But the first thing I wanted to talk about, with any rate filing for any of our utilities, we have some key objectives, and our rate filing really delivers on four objectives. One is delivering on our responsibility to continue to provide safe and reliable energy. The second is working to keep our customers' bills as low as possible. Third, investing every year in the energy grid to ensure we can continue to provide the safe and reliable energy that our customers expect. And the last, and this is new from our previous rate filing two years ago in terms of objective, and it's part of this subject matter of this hearing, is protecting our non-data center customers from data center customers' costs.

Madam Chair, I have a question on that. Wouldn't there be a fifth objective, and that is to maximize the rate of return to your private shareholders? That's not a consideration in any of these rate cases?

Well, considered in our application is the return requirement, which is set by regulators.

That's your recommendation?

Yes.

You argue for those rates of return. It just doesn't come down from heaven somehow. You argue for a rate of return.

Yeah, we advocate a position. That's correct, Alderman.

It isn't one of the goals of a shareholder-owned utility is to generate profit for shareholders?

Well, it's part of being a privately held company. There is an expectation of a return on and of your investment.

So that would be a fifth, our rate review objective, that would be a fifth objective.

That's your position?

You disagree with that statement?

No, I don't disagree with that. I'm just, I highlighted what were the key objectives for our company. There are many.

So let's let them get through with the ten slides, then let's ask the questions. Sure. Go ahead.

Okay, the next slide I wanted to hit on, and I would, before I leave the last slide, I did want to talk a little bit about the process. Our application is currently in front of the commission, the Public Service Commission in Madison, which the City of Milwaukee is a party. Staff and intervener testimony, we filed our application in April. It's been through a very thorough audit the last four or five months. Then staff and interveners will file testimony early next month on August 11th. We'll file some rebuttal. The public hearing in the area, which is in Milwaukee, I'm not aware if that's been scheduled yet, and there's technical hearings. scheduled in Madison on September 15th. And then the way the process works is then we brief it along with the parties and then the commission has a discussion of record where they go through the findings, the testimony, all the evidence, and then they decide, they complete the rate review by issuing an order in December that describes the revenue requirement, what we're authorized to recover from our customers. And that decision, again, is expected in December. On the point I made at the outset of what are we doing to keep bills as low as possible, a key element is working every day with our team to keep bills as low as possible as we meet our customers' needs. Our filing this year includes hundreds of millions of dollars of credits in customer savings from federal tax credits and earnings sharing. And later this year, we expect with commission approval to flow back another 30, 31 million in fuel savings to our customers. The other thing we've done over the last, we worked with the Citizens Utility Board back in 2021 to expand the program called LIFT, which is specifically for our customers. we help tens of thousands of customers every year that are struggling with their bill, with assistance through that program. And I think where I think we could work together where we need help, whether it's Chicago or Milwaukee or wherever we serve is making sure that people that are eligible for low income assistance actually get it. So that's something I frequently say when I make speaking engagements with public officials, that's where we could could use your help. And I think that's, again, we try to be as efficient as we can, but these are the sort of resources that are available to our customers. Now, on data centers, there's been a lot of discussion in our state about data centers, and we're pleased to have two. Wisconsin has become a hotspot for data centers, and we're currently... assisting large hyperscalers at two sites in Mount Pleasant in Racine County and in Ozaukee County at Port Washington. And it's something we've been very proud of over the last couple years working both commercially and through a very public process. leading the effort to protect our customers from these costs, because this is a unique time in Wisconsin's history. Our growth used to be 0.1%, now it's 40% over the next five years, and it's a fair question. We get asked whether we're in Madison or here, okay, I think this is good for Wisconsin, but I don't want my constituents paying for it. And the other question we get is, what happens if they don't show up? You're building all these plants. We don't want to be stuck with the bill. And on both those fronts, we've really been successful with our state regulators who recently and unanimously approved our very large customer tariff proposal that ensures that none of these costs that are being borne by data centers will be shifted to your constituents and throughout our footprint. And we've really spent a lot of time with both customer stakeholders to come up with one of the toughest and most transparent very large customer tariffs in the country. And just to give you an example, we were trying to do two things. And this process started a year and a half, two years ago. How do we demonstrate that, whether it's wires or generation, that our non data center customers are not gonna be stuck with those costs. And in our rate filing, we've disclosed that there's, I mean, don't hold me to the exact number, but it's roughly $2 billion in over the next two years will be charged directly to our data center customers at those two sites to pay for the cost that we are required to serve them. And this next slide is turning back to the rate case. And this slide is one we use frequently, just showing at the corporate level what we're spending in renewables over the next five years. And this includes both WE Energies, Wisconsin Public Service, so it's not just WE Energies. As part of our all above strategy, we've really integrated a lot of renewables into our fleet, not just going forward the next five years, but we've put over two gigawatts of renewables that are under operation now in southeast Wisconsin. And you can see these are very big numbers in terms of You know, give you a sense of idea. WeEnergy's capacity, our generating fleet, is about 5600 megawatts. This shows you we're building more than that, and again, across the whole footprint over the next five years, and that's something that, you know, we get a lot of questions. It's solar, battery storage, and wind, but we've, The commission in Madison has obviously been, not just us but the other utilities of the state have a tremendous amount of construction applications because each one of these requires the approval and review. It's reviewed by the staff. These applications take well over a year in many cases, goes through a full and transparent process. This is what our plan is but obviously we need regulatory support to execute on that. And it is a driver in our rate cases. It was in the last rate case, I think, we recover these renewable investments over 20 to 30 years. The last rate case, there was about a billion, a little under. And in this rate case, a key driver in our Requested ask if the commission is sick over 600Million dollars in either. Most of these have been approved, but we have another tranche of solar wind and battery projects that we use to serve all of our customers. And here's just the numbers. So, um. This slide shows what our typical customer would see as an increase in their monthly bill if our application is granted as it's filed. Now I would tell you, I've been with the company for 15 years. The commission in its audit process reduces our ask. We're required by state law to come in every two year, or by order to come in every year. We just wanted to highlight this is for 2027, For the typical WeEnergy's residential customer, $13 in 27, $8 to $9 per month in 28. Again, that's if we get 100%, which is very unlikely. And then at Wisconsin Gas, it's $8 in 27 and $5 to $5.50 per month at Wisconsin Gas. And then I wanted to present the right. At the right you can see our increases incurring this rate case over the last decade. It generally tracks with the challenge a lot of utilities have had. Our increases are consistent with inflation at or around inflation and that shows you the number over the last, you know, with the projected revenue increases we've saw for 27 and 28, what that would pencil out at. So with that, one of the things I did want to mention before I turn it over to Michelle, I mean, as we balance more and more renewables and as we face more severe weather, we're fortunate to have our top person here who manages that, Michelle, and I'd like to turn it over to her to go through the next couple slides and show the nexus to the rate case.

Thank you, Burt. So part of our 27 and 28 rate review also includes sustaining our reliability investments. We have seen an improvement and a success story in increased tree trimming and tree removal. So in 25, we trimmed nearly 3,100 miles. That's a 334% increase from 2024. We also removed 8,600 hazard trees. Of those 8,600, 7,600 of those were affected by emerald ash. Forestry-related outages are down 25%, and those outage durations are 75% shorter compared to the three-year average. And in 26 through 28, we will be trimming on an annual basis 2,500 to 3,000 lines, removing 8,000 to 10,000 hazard trees. And forestry-related outages will continue to improve. That is WE Energy's overall. But I want to just give a statistic on the Milwaukee area. So from 2025 through 2028, nearly $20 million will be spent on the lines that serve Milwaukee. Next slide, please. Thank you. So continuing on, sustaining reliability. So future investments in our grid resiliency and storm hardening to strengthen the grid. In 25, we installed 58 miles of underground cable. We installed 101 sectionalizing and automation devices. And what these devices do is they reduce outages and then in some cases, depending on where the fault is, it can also then shorten the length of an outage if there is an outage. And we're gonna continue that trend in 26 through 28. So the plan is to install 60 to 80 miles of underground cable each year and install 100 to 150 sectionalizing and automation devices. And again, that goes to reducing the outages and shortening outages. So Milwaukee specific, we will be investing $22 million in 27 and 28 combined. And Jennifer, I'll pass it to you.

Thank you. So other things that we're investing in is our future workforce. And I'm very thankful that you have us here today so that I can talk about our careers and energy program. We employ students, high school students, as juniors and seniors to get into trades with WE Energies. Of those students that since 2019, we have approximately 40 full-time employees at this moment. that have come fully through our programs. We partner with Milwaukee Public Schools and also other participating high schools within Milwaukee County. Of those 40 employees, we have 18 MATC degrees. So we have nine that would be engineering associates degrees and then we have our electric power distribution diplomas. from MATC, so a total of 18 of those 40 have completed formal education at MATC as a result of our programs. 71% of those students that have been involved with our programs identify as African American, Hispanic, or Latino, Asian or of two or more races. As I mentioned, MATC, they are a huge partner of ours. Something that we learned early on in supporting our students, making sure that they were successful, that they could get to school every day and on time when attending MATC, We learned that they had transportation barriers. Many of them didn't have their own transportation or if they did it wasn't reliable. The only school at that time was in Mequon for MATC and the first bus of the morning would get them there but they would definitely be at least 20 minutes late. So not a good start of the day when you're already like first generation student at MATC and then you're 20 minutes late every day. So we partner with MATC, many others, including leaders and residents of Metcalfe Park to ensure that we had a MATC campus that was accessible for our students. As a result of that, our students are in their own neighborhoods, they're on the bus line, they're on time, they're focused. when they get to school, which ensures that they're successful. And we also can exhibit careers and energy right there in the Metcalfe Park neighborhood. Those that are driving by, walking by, at some point in time, we'll see our students out learning and working, assembling cross arms, climbing poles. So if you can see it, you can be it. A very big deal to have a technical college right in the city of Milwaukee. We do a lot in the community. We're doing several things this week. Our careers and energy team not only helps the high school programs, the goal is that we get careers and energy out there to many people, whether it's high schoolers or adults. So we are at resource fairs, career fairs, We do partner with the neighborhoods Metcalfe Park, Lindsay Heights. We'll be at Sherman Park this weekend at the grocery store. So the goal is that whether it's students, their families that were impactful in putting the word out about careers and energies because we do want to invest in our future. And it is life, I mean, life-sustaining careers. It is changing for the families in general. We've had students that have been able to take their families to Disney World, they've never been there before, buy cars for a mom, help them with mortgage, rent. So our programs are truly life-changing and we're very proud of it. So again, thank you for having us here. We will be at all the high schools in September and October with Milwaukee Public Schools and other participating ones. So if you have a loved one, someone that's near and dear, tell them to check us out because we'll be at their high school.

And then I think our last slide, thanks Jennifer. Our last slide I just wanted to highlight, I know Eric was in the room earlier, but we have partnered successfully with the city for over 12 megawatts of solar generation. And you can see it's helping you meet your climate goals and we have ours as well. So it's been a good partnership and we appreciate working with you and your team. So that concludes our presentation.

Thank you. Are there any questions from committee?

Yeah, Madam Chair. Yeah, thank you so much. Again, thank you guys for showing up. I really do appreciate it because our constituents are just, you know, super concerned about what's going on here. You know, when it comes to the when it comes to the rate case. I understand that it, you know, that you guys are going to have a back and forth with, you know, the citizens utility board and the potentially your rate case, your rate proposed rate increase may be dropped. So, If that is a part of what you guys are proposing, what is stopping you or have you guys ever given consideration to either proposing a no rate increase, given that I'm looking at a presentation here from, I'm looking at a file that was given, I actually asked for this to be included in the file too, a presentation, Transforming the Future, the investor update for May of 2026, where I'm literally seeing history of consistent strong earnings and dividend growth. Have we considered having a conversation with investors that a rate freeze is going to be more appropriate given what's going on with the inflation environment currently in Wisconsin right now over And given that investors have received strong earnings and dividend growth, according to your own presentation, was that a part of the conversation? Was a zero rate increase something you guys considered? And would you be willing to amend your application right now?

Well, again, I've been with the company 15 years. In previous year, a decade ago, we did propose a rate freeze. We're simply, for 27 and 28, we're not in that position. We don't have revenues sufficient. We have shortfalls in our revenues that we're asking for an increase to deal with the recovery of capital costs and also you know on Michelle and other team I mean labor costs are up whether it's construction or operations and maintenance and that those are those are key drivers for this deficiency so we have not proposed to freeze and we will not you know that our advocacy position is as as we filed it and it's in our direct testimony

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, I understand the labor costs are going up. I support labor costs increasing because it's really hard out there for a lot of working people. But I'm seeing, literally, I'm looking at, from your guys' presentation, I'm looking at page four of the investor presentation. It literally almost shows an exponential curve of annualized dividends per share increasing. I mean, that seems to be the investor returns seem to be a major part of the equation when we're talking about these rate cases. Wouldn't you agree?

Well, as Alderman Bauman mentioned, yeah, it is a cost that's included in our revenue requirement, the return on and return of of our capital investments. That is a part of the revenue requirement.

No, totally. I would argue that that shouldn't be. As a socialist, I believe that something that serves the public should be owned publicly. You guys are great assets to your teams. We want you in the public sector, all three of you individually. We want you working for the people of Milwaukee accountable, just like these individuals from DPW who come and answer to us all the time. The difference between this presentation and what's going on at DPW is that those individuals are fully, by their jobs, accountable to the elected officials. You guys are accountable to people that answer to shareholders. I think that's a power dynamic that a lot of people don't want to see here, although I can acknowledge that some of the stuff you've presented is good work. I'm question whether I would be curious from Alderman Baumann whether the solar partnership has been smooth as is claimed in the past. I just downloaded this morning from the Public Service Commission's website a comparison. I actually compared all municipal utilities in Wisconsin with WebCo, with WUE Energies here, and looks like from a kilowatt hour rate basis that compared to every single municipal utility, all 81 of them across Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Electric Power Company came in at the highest rate per kilowatt hour at 19.342 cents per kilowatt hour. That's of a bill that would be dated on June 1st of 2026. And we have, you know, the next highest municipal utility was, I'm probably gonna pronounce this name wrong because these are Wisconsin cities, Wanna Walk Electric and Water Utility at 17 cents, but then it precipitously drops for all the rest of the 80 other municipal utilities all the way down to looks like Princeton Municipal Water and Electric Utility pays seven cents per kilowatt hour, which is less than 50% of what we're paying here in Milwaukee. 7.4 cents per kilowatt hour for Maryland municipal electric and water. The largest municipal utility in the state of Wisconsin, Manitowoc Public Utilities, is paying, as of June 22nd, 2026, 9.3 cents per kilowatt hour. That is almost half of what we are paying here in Milwaukee. That's another large city. Obviously, Manitowoc's not as large as here in Milwaukee. But I just like... Why is that the case that these municipal utilities have such a difference with maybe one municipal utility being the exception? Why is there such a difference in the kilowatt hour rate for residential customers?

Well, first of all, I grew up near Oney Wonk, about five miles away, but it's just a different business model. I mean, a century ago, there were issues with getting, I mean, it's why you said that the rural utility service and entities like MUW were created. This is just a different business model. We started here, we've probably served here over 125 years, and we take that responsibility to provide safe and reliable services energy seriously for every customer in our service territory. And we have a responsibility to also plan for the future, you know, so we can continue to have the energy we need, you know, 24 hours a day, 365 a year. And the investments we're making today and are reflected in the rate filing are part of that effort.

So are you suggesting that the 81 municipal utilities aren't planning for the future, given the fact that across the nation, according to the American Public Power Association, that outage rates for municipal utilities are more than half the rates of an of the rates of outages are more than is less than half the rates of outages for investor owned utilities. I mean, I think it seems to me that they're that the business model that you're describing is the difference between a investor-owned model where we're only answering to shareholders, which is a not a democratic situation, right? Because someone can own more than one share. It's not one person, one vote, like in a democracy that elects those of us up here, that it's maybe, you know, it's the golden rule that is applied to our corporations, right? Which is he who has the gold makes the rules. And so that's what's going on over here at WEC Energy Group. So given that that's the case, I'm just really confused. I would say that that is the essential business model difference is that we have the private and investor rate of return that's so tight. in the WEC Energy Group May 20, 2026 investor updates that we are having this growth in return. And so I would, everything I'm seeing is pointing to, I mean, do these workers at these municipal utilities make less? I don't think so. I think a lot of these, even though there's Act 10 concerns with these municipal utilities, I am aware that Local 2150, which you guys deal with as well, does represent some of these workers at municipal utilities and fights for them as well, even if they don't have contract rights under Act 10. But I'm really confused by, can you just elaborate more what you mean by the business model? I mean, they seem to be providing service, the voters of those municipalities, Oconomowoc, and some of these areas are very red, right? Some of these areas were, you know, when I went on WTMJ4 and said that Oconomowoc has the hammer and sickle flying over it every single day with a municipal utility, you know, that's, I mean, they even may have heard my words on that and they still have decided there's no resolution before the Oconomowoc Common Council to eliminate their municipal utility. None of these places have votes on them. And there's an election coming up on August 11th. A common council could very well, of any of these municipal utilities, put on the ballot, because they're against public ownership, ideologically, could put on the ballot the question of eliminating their public utility, their publicly owned utility, excuse me. So what is the, what are some of the more, could you just elaborate more on some of the reasons and what you mean by business model? Because these places are serving their customers, otherwise they would vote to get rid of them.

Sure. Well, it's not just a business model. I mean, The consumer-owned utilities have their own governance through their, whether you're a Kaukauna or Oconomowoc, they have their own boards that set their rates and plan for the future. I did not suggest that they're not planning for the future. Many years ago, 1906 or 07, when they set up the Public Service Commission, it was to regulate privately held utilities and ensure that their costs were reasonable. And even if you look at Chapter 196 today, there's an obligation we have to our customers, to the public, and to our shareholders. So that's sort of the three-legged stool that regulators apply when they look at making public interest findings. So that's been codified under Wisconsin law for well over a century. So it's a different construct of regulation, but both consumer owned and privately held utilities, we all have the same goal. which is to ensure safe and reliable power for our customers wherever they are.

And I would argue that, as Dan Hone said over 100 years ago, when that law was passed, that regulation has proved to be an utter fizzle. We now have, by the facts that we have here before us, that we now have higher rates than any other municipal utility in the state of Wisconsin period right now here in Milwaukee. And it really, you know, I know there's like a thing out there like, oh, you know, that's just for municipal utilities or just for these lily white, you know, communities out in the outstate areas. But, you know, I think if it can work in a small scale, it can work in a large one. The LA Department of Power and Water, you know, provides power and water for 1.4 and natural gas for 1.4 million customers. at a reasonable rate with a unionized workforce that pays potentially even more generously than the Wisconsin Electric Power Company here. So I think it would just be about difference. I mean, I would argue to you that the regulatory environment hasn't worked we're looking at a situation where we may have data centers here in Southeastern Wisconsin that consume more power than the entire Milwaukee Metro area combined as far as its power usage if this continues. And actually that would be another question that I would have is that Is WE Energies or WEC Energy Group, are you guys actively recruiting data centers to come to southeastern Wisconsin? Are you guys, are you in favor of what's going on here with the proliferation of data centers?

Well, again, I guess I'll sound like a typical utility executive. We have an obligation to serve, whether you're a hardware store or a data center. And that's what we've been doing.

That's different than recruiting.

Yeah, it's different than recruiting. But at the end of the day, we have an obligation to serve. Now, we're obviously involved with talking to data centers. It is a huge economic development win for our community to land one of these because of the amount of jobs, direct and indirect jobs. It's good for the community. And we have an obligation to serve that load. again, whether it's one megawatt or whether it's, you know, 2300. And that's what we plan for. And that's why we feel very good about the arrangement that state regulators have approved because the last thing we wanted to do as a company was appear before committees and say, we really, you know, we're shaky on whether or not your bill is going to get up. We've seen other states that have not been as successful as Wisconsin in planning for this, and there have been increases that have been shifted to non-data center customers, but that's not the case here in Wisconsin. Again, we're very proud of the tariff we put together that received over a year of scrutiny, and they just issued an order on May 21st, directing us to file tariffs consistent with that order, and it's a very transparent and fair arrangement for the data centers and protects our non-data center customers, which is in 26, 27, 28, that's our goal. And we feel like we're in very good shape to achieve those objectives.

And I think I would agree with you that I did support the ruling that the Public Service Commission made that required data center applicants to shoulder the cost of their energy infrastructure build-outs and creation for the purposes of know constructing those data centers but i think the question here is i you know that i think people be wondering is like when a data center approaches you because i i wouldn't agree that those are good for our communities i would say that those things that those things are i mean beaver dam i was born in beaver dam is getting destroyed by the data center i don't know if that's in your service territory or not but it's you know deeper beaver dam is being detrimented by that port washington The residents there, it's a complete political upheaval right now in Port Washington with the mayor being recalled and other things happening where the residents said, we don't want this. I mean, from a lot of people's perspective, yes, I would acknowledge that there are a lot of building trades positions created in the construction of the data centers. I don't disagree that that's a factual situation, but we have, I'll say this, we have plenty of roads and schools and public infrastructure that if we didn't have private capital, pulling the resource from the rest of the United States and directing it towards data centers that we could actually take that resource and rebuild all of our schools, get this lead out of our city, whether it's paint or pipes, get lead out. I mean, that's the issue I think that's fundamental that we might disagree on is the question of the allocation of resource and power, and that we don't believe, I don't believe personally, and a lot of my supporters don't, that a lot of Milwaukee doesn't, that we should have the investor ability to make these decisions. But to get to an actual question that we can actually talk about, rather than just theory. When a data center approaches you guys, because I'm assuming they must get on the horn with you to talk about a proposal, would you guys be willing right now to say that Southeastern Wisconsin doesn't want new data centers, so please find another utility or another location? Unfortunately, we're saddled with Port Washington, we're saddled with Beaver Dam, but I'm supporting legislation along with colleagues up here to do as best we can to regulate and stop data centers here in the city. But would you guys be willing to commit and just say, hey, our people here don't, you know, Wisconsin doesn't, this is America's dairy land, not America's data land. We want no more data centers, no more hyperscale or smaller scale data centers. Would you guys be willing to just let people know that that's not going to be politically feasible? And of course you have an obligation to the law to provide the power line to whomever is built. I'm not doubting that. But would you guys be willing to join

the rest of the movement that's happening here and just say that you know we energies doesn't isn't interested in working with new data centers again we have an obligation to serve any customer so we're not taking a position you know we're we're aware in dane county other areas where you know and i've talked to a lot of legislators there's going to be a lot of interest next session on rules and regulations having to do with data centers to address you know the issue we've been talking about invite you know water usage and that we're happy to participate in that but On behalf of our company, we would not support a moratorium.

Okay.

We just have a disagreement on that.

No, no, I mean, that's fair. And I think the question, this really gets to the fundamental question, is, like, the decision by WEC Energy Group to not support a moratorium, you know, is driven, is a decision that's made by individuals on the board of directors of WEC Energy Group that aren't elected by the people. I mean, I want... when there's that closed-door meeting at the facility downtown here, just a few blocks away, when there's a closed-door meeting of the board, I want who sits in that room to be elected by ratepayers and residents rather than by shareholders, because maybe you can confirm that there is a potential, or maybe you can even confirm the possibility, that some people on the board of WEC Energy Group are not ratepayers here, might be representing other interests from Wall Street that are on the board currently.

100 percent is that the case with uh wbc energy group our our governance yeah your governance with your board board of directors that includes both wisconsin and non-wisconsin residents but their obligation fiduciary obligation is the best interest of the shareholders of the corporation yeah i do i do have a question hold on remember for your governance board who makes the decision as to its membership Well, it's ultimately voted on by the shareholders. There'll be a slate of nominees at our annual meeting that will stand for election, and they're nominated by the board of directors. They come in and out, but that's the process. Okay.

Thank you. Sure. I'm sorry I interrupted you.

No, no, please. I would love to have other people ask some questions here. I just wanted to make sure that some of the main questions got out because I think that is the fundamental difference is that, you know, when we, you know, for as many issues that we have in the city of Milwaukee, anybody with Department of Public Works or our water utility, we can drag them right here and fire them. And through that process, if they're not serving the public's needs, so that governance structure, I mean, every single one of us here had to win an election where everyone who was eligible to vote, and that obviously is a subset of people, unfortunately, not as expansive as we'd like, but where everybody who was eligible to vote got to choose who their alder is. And so that's like the fundamental, I think, disagreement that a lot of us up here and so many people in Milwaukee have with voting. A lot of the things you're talking about is great. The work you're doing, I support that. I appreciate it, honestly. I just want it to be publicly accountable and under public ownership so we can make even more positive decisions like that. I'd be curious from Alderman Baumann if this last slide, the claim that we've partnered, the city of Milwaukee has had a positive partnership with WeEnergies is true. I guess the last, one of the other major big picture questions I would have would be you know, regarding return on equity. Some of your guys' equity is from bonds. Some of it's from shareholders. And can you just explain, you know, for everybody what return on equity is and what you guys are talking about with this current rate case regarding the return on equity piece?

Well, I'm not... I'm not our finance wizard. I can just give you the 35,000 foot level. When we do investments, we finance them with a little over 50% equity and the rest is debt. That's how we finance and we get a return of that debt cost and then return on the investment which is set by state regulators. That's how at a high level we get recovery off our capital investments, both the return of and the return on.

Okay, no, that's fine, because I was informed by an individual who was in the know on this that part of the proposal was an increase in shareholder returns as part of some of the returns on here, but maybe if we can't answer that question today, that's fine. One of the things I know a lot of people are concerned about as well, It's just these issues of the stranded assets, the power plants that aren't working anymore, or that haven't continued to work, like Pleasant Prairie, some of the generation down there. And that is in tangent with AI data centers as well, right? Because we're building infrastructure for the public. No, you know this, but for the public's knowledge, we're building new infrastructure for AI data centers. As part of the PSC's ruling, they concluded that there needs to be capital requirements on the part of the data center companies to potentially cover the cost of, if they need to close down, to cover the cost of some of those, what you might call stranded assets, and so that rate payers don't foot that bill. I mean, I would like to see some of these, you know, we... According to Wisconsin Watch here, we owe over a billion dollars on shuttered power plants currently. Thankfully, with this PSC ruling, we may not be on the hook for data center infrastructure, but oddly enough, Oracle, which is one of the parent companies of the data center being constructed in Port Washington, is actually suing the PSC right now to get rid of some of those credit requirements. First of all, what is WeEnergy's position on stranded assets? Are you guys looking to potentially just write those off or have shareholders eat some of the cost rather than rate payers of stranded assets? Additionally, what are your thoughts on this lawsuit that Oracle is currently bringing against the PSC's ruling that requires Oracle to have money ready to cover these costs which apparently they're saying after their credit was downgraded um that they shouldn't have to you know provide those letters of credit so what's you know as far as as far as stranded assets like with the current ones that we have is there any way that shareholders or you guys be open to shareholders eating those costs and then with the data centers what is your opinion on the um current lawsuit that oracle is bringing against the public service commission sure on the stranded cat uh

cost issue, you mean with regard to the investments that the generation investments were making to accommodate the hyperscalers? I'm talking about current... Because we, like I mentioned in my initial comments, we've negotiated payment and cancellation agreements with the hyperscalers and they're backed up with credit supports, letters of credit, parental guarantees. So we feel very good that we've taken a very good and solid approach to protecting our non-data center customers from that risk. That was sort of a cornerstone of when we were negotiating with the hyperscalers is that we have to have protections in place so our customers, our shareholders are not left in a situation where they would have to absorb those costs. And that's appropriately placed on the hyperscalers.

And I agree that that has been. I'm looking at an article from the Journal Sentinel from just yesterday that Oracle is in the middle of a lawsuit right now with the Public Service Commission on their ruling. Do you guys support that lawsuit?

We filed, to preserve our rights, we did file something late last week. we're a party in that litigation. But the issue in that litigation... On which side are you a party? We just said we're in that case. I mean, it was a one-page pleading. But the issue there in that litigation was whether or not the commission's decision to increase the credit requirements was supported by record evidence. That's the legal claim. I mean, it's a 17, 18-page pleading, but that's the nuts and bolts of what that litigation is going to be over. They ratcheted up the credit requirements The triggers to have to pay a letter of credit for their investments versus a parental guarantee, they ratcheted that up and the issue is did the commission's decision to do that, was that supported by the record in the case? So that's what that litigation is about. And do you guys believe it wasn't supported by that? Well, I can tell you, I'm a lawyer too. So I'm saying we are weighing our options on the main commission order on May 21st and whether we appeal that aspect or not. So I'm not really authorized to give you my comment on behalf of the company.

And that's fine. No, no. And I understand that that, I mean, it's, you know, we have, we have, you know, meetings with our city attorney's office as well, where we have to keep things confidential. So I understand why a corporate entity would, would be in that. I mean, I think that.

No, but I'm just saying there's two tracks. There's that litigation. We don't know whether we or our partners will appeal that portion of the commission. Because this was a great decision for the state. We applaud the state regulators for the order that they approved. It's just this issue, we haven't made a final decision whether we will appeal that portion of the order.

And the question of who decides still looms of whether you make that decision or not. I mean that, you know, we, we do have decisions, you know, as a council about litigation, you know, before the city and our legal direction and court cases as well. And so I can understand you need to have some private meetings about that, but that's, That's the central issue is that that decision will be made behind closed doors by people that were not elected at WEC Energy Group. I mean, that is the central issue here. And that comes down to even when you guys are making a rate proposal, what the initial proposal will be. When we make a decision about our waterworks, it comes before this body. I mean, that's one of the key issues. But Madam Chair, I've had a lot of questions. I know other people have them, so I appreciate the time.

Thank you. I have a couple questions. Earlier, you were talking about the right pay and how you're not in a position financially for the request for next year to be able to do a freeze. As you all look towards the future and do your estimations, you said there was a freeze tent.

10 years ago do you anticipate being able to not have to request an increase anytime soon well i'd first say i'm an advocate for the company i run the regulatory group so if our senior management team thinks there's a revenue shortfall in 28 they will direct us to file you know if we don't have adequate revenues to support our current operations that decision will be made then but we do that every time we take a fresh look every two years because again we're directed by commission order to um file an application whether you ask for freeze point one four percent um that process occurs every 24 months so um i hope that's responsive but we we would we would in once this rate case is resolved and it'll set rates for 27 and 28 the next it's called the test years and 29 we will decide sometime in you know early 28 if we're going to go in again And we do that same analysis regardless of whether we're in the other three states where we serve. We do the same. All of them are traditionally regulated jurisdictions, so we take the same management approach whether it's here or in the other three states where we serve.

I have to believe that as a company that you look at more than two years. I know you might formally look at two years, but I have to believe I have a bigger financial outlook than that. You gave the example of 10 years ago. I just was looking for if in your calculations there was even the potential of it ever happening again.

Well, I mean, I guess I would just say, I mean, we, many people in our community are facing challenging times and no one wants to see rising energy bills and that's why I've tried to emphasize, we work hard, everyone at our team works as hard as they can to keep bills as low as possible and run as efficiently as we can while we deal with, you know, you look at what we've done on tree trimming. you know emerald ash borer these are huge issues in terms of ensuring the reliability people expect and we have really ramped up our tree trimming with commission support but there's a cost to that you know you know we have we're doing all this miles but we have to pay for all that and that's a rising cost of service so those are some of the challenges we have but then on the good side as we integrate more renewables where you don't have fuel You don't have a lot of O&M. That's delivering savings on our fuel portion of the bill where you don't really see that as much, but it's delivering tens of millions of dollars because as we rely more on, solar's an incredible resource during peak periods for us, and that saves our customers money. And at the end of the day, that's what when we go in for these generation projects for state regulatory approval we have to show a benefit to our customers that's why we're doing it so long-winded answer but we we always are looking at ways to be efficient and we take the same approach every you know wherever we are to try to run efficiently across the footprint

Thank you. On the data center piece, you know, data centers already exist in the state of Wisconsin, and I'm sure you service them. So I guess my question is a lot of the concerns that residents have about data centers or that they've seen be a problem in other places, like, you know, rolling brownouts or increased electrical bills for residents who are in a close proximity area. to some of the data centers. Those kinds of things, have you, in the servicing of the data centers you already do, have you noticed any of those things in those areas?

Well, in terms of reliability impacts, I mean, that's job one. That's non-negotiable. So that, regardless of who we're serving, whether it's a hyperscaler or manufacturers, we've got to make sure that any customer coming out late, we have adequate generation and resources to deal with that customer and that's why it's been such a huge undertaking for our company to plan all these generation additions and sync them up with our existing fleet to ensure that in no situation is reliability going to be harmed by the addition of these these major new data centers so in the data center and we're confident that we've done that

So in the data centers that you already service, there have not been brownouts or increased electrical bills for nearby residents as a result of the utilization of the data centers use of your services?

Yeah, not to my knowledge.

We have not had any brownouts due to our current data centers.

and no increases in utility bills for nearby residents caused by the existence of the data center in close proximity?

Well like I mentioned in our rate filing we have segregated the costs for the data centers and we can show and our regulators and interveners this was a key thing before we filed is that this is going to be a different rate case because we're creating a separate set of transparent books so you can see what the hyperscalers over the next two years are gonna be paying in 27 and 28 and it's roughly $2 billion. And it's all transparent, like it's subject to audit and it's exactly the type of public policy that we think is appropriate during this time given the concerns many customers have about the impact of data centers on their bill.

Is that something you've already done or something you're doing for the future?

No, we're doing that right now. That's in the current filing that we filed in April.

Thank you. Any other questions from the committee? Yes, Madam Chair. Alderman Baumann, then Alderman Tyler. Okay.

A couple of questions on context based on this presentation. Sure. Page three, you say 40,000 customers benefit. What is the total population of your service area?

Meters, it's 1.1 meters. So, I mean, in terms of population.

So, 1.1 rate payers? 1.1 million meters.

So this is, we do it, when we say customers, the customers is, you know, it's a meter set, so when we say, yeah.

Well, I understand that, but you've made no calculation on how many actual people that comprises? Well, I mean, we could, I could. Two million, three million?

Yeah, yeah, that's a fair,

Okay, so this 40,000, is that 40,000 Milwaukee residents or 40,000 out of three million?

A significant, you know, we will, well, first of all, the first answer is we'll get back to you on that, but I know a significant amount of the participation, the participants in the LIFT program are Milwaukee residents. But I couldn't tell you today, but this is why we'll follow up.

Going to page five. Sure. Trying to get my head around the context of this.

What page is that?

That's got your solar, battery, and wind. Did you say that you currently have 5,600 megawatt generating capacity?

Yeah, roughly the nameplate capacity at WE Energies is about 5,600 megawatts. And that includes, you know, everything. Gas, coal.

So that's why I'm trying to get my head around. So you are literally in the next five years planning to more than double capacity, if not triple, because I'm sure it's not all going, the additional capacity is not all going to be attributable to solar, battery, or wind. You also have gas plants.

Oh yeah, in the committee, no, that's a good question. I should say that the commission has approved two significant gas plants, but those are all being paid 100% by the hyperscalers.

And when I look at, And what's the megawatt capacity of those?

Again, subject, they're, I don't know, 1.2, 1,200 megawatts, I think? I don't know, do you know? I mean, we can get back to you on that, but they're big generating facilities.

Right. And along those lines, what's the current status?

I have that here.

What's the status of Oak Creek, which is a coal burner, correct?

Yeah, the older Oak Creek units, we have two units. We have two units. We're going to be running the newer units, dual fuel. They'll be able to run on natural gas. They are running on natural gas. And on the older Eisenhower-level units, the Oak Creek 7 and 8, we extended them through... I think the end of next year.

What does that mean? They'll stop burning coal?

Yeah, but I mean, no, yeah, we already have the replacements there that are cleaner natural gas units that are at that interconnection point.

So the coal-burning units will be shut down effectively?

Yeah, because the air permit, we have issues with the air permit. You also have generation interconnection. an issue because we've already committed the natural gas units to be interconnected to the grid, so yeah, that's there.

Going to the page, well, page eight and nine, all this trimming and underground, you say you have, just again, context, 2,500 to 3,000 line miles each year, what's your total line miles?

Yeah, so the total of electric across the grid, I'll follow up on that. I did try to.

I try to get a contact. I mean, if you have 10,000 line miles, I'd say, oh, trimming a third of it is impressive. If you're trimming up 1% of it, I'd say not very impressive. So context seems to be missing in a lot of these slide presentations.

I will get back to you on that.

Same with the cable. We installed 58 miles of underground cable. How much underground cable is now in the system? How much is not underground and above ground? Again, that may be an impressive number or it may be totally unimpressive, my point.

Without context.

The job training business on page 10. Since the start of this program, when did it start?

2017.

So it's been in operation nine years and you've hired 40 people?

Yes, keeping in mind that we've hired more than that. These are the students that actually made it through the entire program, meaning all their apprenticeship programs. If they needed formal training, like with MATC, they completed their degrees, which sometimes take longer than two years.

How many people a year you're hiring through this program?

35 per year. So in total, we've hired over 300, and that's going back to 2019.

But only 40 have survived this process.

40 people, yes.

And what's the total employment of WeEnergies?

Well, WEC is 7,000. I don't know what it...

It's over 7,000.

That's all of our companies. Yeah, I understand. And let me just add on to this because we don't look at success just as those 40. We have judges that come in and they educate our students on driver's license, making sure that they're clean, keeping the driver's license clean, making sure your circle... consists of people that are going to support you and keep you in a positive aspect of life. Making sure you know who's in your car, what they bring in the car, is there a key in the ignition? We are teaching the city kids those things.

That's great, but I just want to make sure there's context here. For sure. You got 7,000 employees and this program is higher.

Yeah, and that's WECY, just to be clear. So we are giving them tools in their tool belt that maybe they may not even receive at school. We also teach them financial management, whether it's to do with 401K, investing their money, saving their money, FICO, like all of those things. We're teaching those students, and that's not something they're necessarily getting in school. Okay. So those are items that no one can take away from them. They can share with their family members, other people in the community, friends. So it's bigger than just 40. I mean, we were at over 28 high schools last year.

I don't know how big it is. These are the numbers you're representing to us as part of this.

So just to add some context, since it's not there, we spoke with over 600 students last year at over 28 high schools. The year before that, it was close to 750. So we're educating about careers and energy and many other things. It's a lot bigger than 40. And in addition to that, we're at career fairs. And I would say since 2017, we talked to thousands of students. Fair enough.

I'm just going off your data.

I just want to make sure you have it. We're pretty impressive, and I want to make sure you know that, Alderman Bauman. Sounds good.

Alderman Baumann, the one thing, your question about the natural gas units that have been approved, the Oak Creek units are 1100 megawatts. Those are the CTs and then we have a unit at Paris, a rice unit that's much more, it's 128 megawatt.

And these are going to be newly constructed?

Yeah.

Okay, and when does construction start? And that one, is that the Oak Creek location?

Yeah, they're already under construction. They've received state regulatory approval, yeah.

Okay, and what's the total capacity of Oak Creek?

For all units? Elm Road units? It's a lot, I don't know.

That's your biggest facility?

Yeah, yeah, it's our biggest. Before the hyperscalers, that was the biggest capital investment in state history.

I remember there was a lot of lobbying about that back in 2004, 2005, 2006, right?

Correct.

You were there at the company at that time? No. I know she was. No, I was in Iraq. Okay, and then one last question. I mean, I was very intrigued by your dialogue with Alderman Brower on the publicly owned utilities and how their rates compared with shareholder owned utilities. And so going back to page two, your four objectives. Infer from your comments that you are would concede the point that publicly owned utilities are capable of delivering on all those same objectives as well or better than Shareholder owned utilities Capable now whether they do or not is obviously an open question But are capable of delivering on all those objectives as well if not better than shareholder owned utilities.

I

I don't know if I'd agree or better, but yeah, I agree. They have the same objectives we do in terms of providing a service at lowest cost and ensuring reliability. That's a cornerstone of our business.

Well, you said, okay, it's an editorial comment. Yeah. That's just not true. They are incidental objectives of your business. The prime directive of your business is return on investment because absent shareholders, none of you would have a job. the shareholder return is critical to every privately owned corporation ever invented, that ever existed. These other objectives are incidental to that, I'll grant you that. You would prefer to have low bills, but if it interferes with your return on investment obligation, you're gonna have high bills, just that simple, or else you wouldn't have a job anymore, and your board of directors would remove your senior management because they're not delivering what the investment community, what Wall Street fundamentally looks for, and that is return on investment. And that's fine, I get this to the cookbooks and all this other stuff, public relations, make people feel good and fuzzy about we energies, but the bottom line is you are a private corporation owned by shareholders who are expecting to make money off of that investment and that is the prime directive of the company. I wish somebody would just admit that and then acknowledge that there can be a policy debate on whether having the public in that role of ownership or the private sector in that role of ownership is good or bad. and have that debate out in the open without all this subterfuge about, well, we're fundamentally directed to delivering. No, it's delivering on your investor returns, period. You're an attorney, you studied corporate law, you studied corporate finance in law school just as I did, and that's the fact. I wish I had been acknowledged, and then we go from there to debate which process is better for the public, who we represent. So there you go.

Any other questions from committee? Yes. Alderman Simon.

Thank you. Madam Chair, thank you. So one, I looked at, I was also looking at this program you have on page 10, and thank you to Alderman Bauman for getting a little more detail in that because as a longstanding teacher over 20 years with MPS, I know it's difficult for programs to get in there and recruit students from MPS. It's not an easy task because they spend more time doing a lot of other things versus doing this community engagement. So I was concerned about When you say Milwaukee students, how many of those actually come from MPS schools? I know you said you talked to 600 students at 28 different schools. How many of those are MPS schools? How much success have you had with getting MPS students? into this program.

We could, I don't have those stats as with the 40, but we just started including other Milwaukee County high schools probably two to three years ago. So a lot of our success does come from Milwaukee Public Schools. Of the 28, I wanna say 24, maybe we're all Milwaukee public high schools and the rest would have been other participating high schools. So really NPS is very good about letting us into the schools where they're every Friday, September through like mid October, maybe three schools a day. And they also do field trips to ship like the smaller schools over to the like a Rufus King or a Golda Meir. So we've talked to all the students that are interested in careers in energy even just a bit so they can learn more about it. So most of that is Milwaukee Public Schools.

And out of the 300 that were hired, and you're saying that we have that success rate of 40, out of the 300, that's a big difference. So do we look at what would cause them not to be successful?

So one of the reasons we have a judge come in and speak with the students, some of it is driver's license. We've had students that have gone all the way through MATC They've obtained their diploma from MATC and then we find out that they have speeding tickets or they've been in accidents so they didn't make it through the program. We've also had some kids come back and then reapply once their driving record is clean and they get into the company. They're students. You know, they're young, they get hired when they're as young as 16 years old, they're learning. At times they don't have as much support. We offer them support, whether it's with testing, preparing for testing, so that they can get into the company. If there's issues with transportation, we work with the schools to make sure that they have that transportation, whether in the form of a taxi. Sometimes the schools are, their counselors are dropping them off as needed, just depending upon what's going on. So we partner with the schools, we partner with the local community to make sure that they have the resources they need to be successful. But again, I have four kids and two of them MPS graduates. I know what I went through as a parent with my kids, I was very engaged. but things come up their high schoolers there's peer pressure there's other things and if people aren't employed with you at we energies to see what an opportunity it is you will have friends that steer you away from that you will have friends that pull you in the circles you shouldn't be in and now you're missing school there's also other things that compete with that if if you have a student that maybe is up all night because parent has to go to work right third shift and i'm watching my siblings now i'm tired i didn't make it to school we do have you know, criteria to even get into our program and stay. You have to have good attendance. Your grades have to be a certain way. We partner with the school so that we can get tutoring. If we see a student is struggling with math, with reading comprehension, we do intervention right away so that the student is successful. So we've been at it a really long time, which is why it says we're nationally recognized because we are. We're actually, we meet with other state utilities because they wanna know how we do it because it is difficult. So with that said, as we've learned over the years, we've put a lot of things in place to catch a student if they fall. We can't catch everything. We're not in their neighborhood. We're not at their school when someone, you know, is picking a fight with them and now they're in a fight and they're eliminated from the program, right? We can't be everywhere, but for what we can do, a 40 student, like where they're designers, they're line mechanics, they're making three, like six figures, you know, like, That is a huge success, especially when I can say I have a student to this day that has been in contact with us since he was a sophomore in high school. He now is a line mechanic journeyman, meaning he can go anywhere in the United States and be a line mechanic. He's worked that hard, he's persevered. Peer pressure, everything else, family dynamics, he's built a house, he's done things for his family. 40 may sound small, but it's a huge number considering the impact that it has not just on our students, but their family.

Thank you so much for that. So it is good to hear that you have provided a lot of wraparound services to address more than just the student coming into your program. Because we do know that there are certain challenges that many students have in the Milwaukee area and they have to, they don't know how to get around those challenges and sounds like that you have over the years implemented some things that will help them overcome those challenges. so that they find success in your program. So I'm happy to hear that. So thank you so much for that. The next question I have would be regarding, I have two more only, those solar fields. So there has been some talk about maybe implementing another solar field on the north side of Milwaukee and just curious how would that impact the customers maybe lowering their rates?

Um. I'd have to follow up on that because I don't know where, we've talked over the last three to five years about doing some solar investments in that area, but I'd have to follow up with our commercial team to find out where that is. Because I don't know today.

I'd like to know what the benefit would be of having that because I saw that you had the one picture of the solar field that was up there and it sounded like that it may be a benefit to helping to lower some rates. Because

But you're talking in the city of Milwaukee? Yes. Yeah, okay.

And then the other last thing is I'm very disappointed, and I'm not quite sure if, and maybe I'm not understanding it, but it sounds like from what Alderman Bauer was reading here when he looked at the rates of your... that you have that there were some, I guess I'm trying to figure out why is it the business model such that there's such different rates across the state where some are paying half than what other areas are paying? That just sounds like why isn't it universal across the state of what the rate is?

because a lot of that boils down to population density, miles of distribution line, every territory, you know, we have franchises is different and there's higher cost structures where we serve versus where I grew up. Just a lot less people. That's one. I mean, there's other criteria too, but I mean, like I said, we're a traditionally regulated utility. All our costs are reviewed by the Public Service Commission of Wisconsin every two years, and they determine whether those costs are reasonable. They look at everything. They do a good job looking at, you know, how many sales we're making, what do you forecast for that versus what we're putting into...

So if someone was really interested in really understanding all those details, how would they go about learning more about that?

Well, every two years we file an application, and as you know, your city, I don't know how much discovery they've thrown, it's normally done through litigation. You know, parties throw discovery requests at it. We do it formally or informally to try to, it's not all litigation, because some of it we just provide to interveners if they want to know, what are you spending on this at this plant? We have questions about what... We're very transparent on that. I don't know if that's responsive, but that's generally how it works. You have to have a party that's interested, whether it's Citizens Utility Board or Walnut Way or whoever, that's generally how they work. get some comfort as to what our cost structure is for different investments and O&M. It runs the whole gamut, it's hard to answer that.

Yeah, I think that I would definitely like to have more information on that because I think we have a lot of residents who are really struggling because of those high cost utilities. That just seems to really dig into the bulk of the income that they may be receiving. And I know that there are some assistance with utility costs. And you mentioned this lift program. um, having to apply for that. And I guess I just would like to know a little bit more and be able to help many of our residents understand why there is such a high cost. And they have to go through these programs just to afford to live in some of the houses that they're living in. And that's when you compare it to someone else paying half of that cost. So... Yeah, it is a little bit, I am a little bit taken back by that. I would like to have a little more understanding of it. So thank you for the answer you gave, but I would like to figure out how to learn more.

Yeah, we'll follow up with you.

Thank you. Any other questions from committee?

Yeah, comment, Madam Chair. I think like I do appreciate the work that you guys are doing to recruit, you know, folks from all backgrounds in Milwaukee to enter into work programs. But I would just argue that some of the things that you guys are trying to prevent are in some ways like products of the system that you guys are promulgating with the work that you're doing, right? We Energies has a political action committee that employees voluntarily, I believe, choose to contribute to, and that is directed into political contributions that support or oppose candidates that in some cases are trying to push policies that would ameliorate the concerns that you're talking about with your students are facing, right? Low wages are a problem across this state. We haven't raised the minimum wage in this state in 725 for as long as that was raised in the Bush era, right? And so for a politician to propose even a wage increase that could benefit low end, not discussing could, that will benefit low income communities here in Wisconsin, right there is a political action committee controlled by a utility that would oppose those politicians. And so therefore, and you may, or you may have, I'm going to be a little silly here with some sarcasms, or you might have a proposal for a public transportation plan that includes a streetcar here in Milwaukee that will, that implementation of that streetcar will be litigated for years and years and years by our utility. And that was the case with the streetcar here in Milwaukee, the location, Longwater Street was litigated by WeEnergies for years and years and years. And then when that utility or any utility, you know, has conversations with um you know with the governor about who should be on the public service commission i mean there are people that have worked in utilities that have served on the public service commission so we have a private entity that's pushing for more and more profits at all cost that is influencing the systems that they're that your program is attempting to ameliorate with you know some of these some of these job programs i mean that like and additionally you know we're talking about solar i mean i have so many complaints from constituents i have a constituent on dowsman street right now that the approval process through the bureaucracy people think we have bureaucracy here they don't know bureaucracy until they know trying to get a solar panel put on their roof with we energies you know that it's dealt with months and months and months of bureaucracy you know, from instituted by we energies to get an approval for panels on their, their roof. So the, the very, we energies, not, not in whole, but we energies and the rest of the capitalist interests that are driven by wall street and by shareholders are contributing to the very problems that you're attempting to ameliorate with your position. So it is, it is literally, it is in some cases, like for the corporation writ large not you but for the corporation writ large to claim to want to ameliorate these problems and then in turn be causing the problems that they're attempting to ameliorate like that's that's what's going on i mean i i would love to see a commitment at this table that we shut down the wec energy group political action committee so that it no longer influences politics so it can actually be objective and can be determined by the people not influenced by corporate PACs that our decision-making at the state level and here can be free of corporate and shareholder influence in that. Something like that would go a long way to a lot of people actually believing that WEC Energy Group is solely here to serve the public interest with utility delivery. Is that a commitment you guys can make right now? On ceasing operations of the WEC Energy Group PAC?

I think this is a little further than the file was noticed to be had, but I do encourage you to hear what he's saying. Are there any other questions from committee? Before we end the file, I do want to say this. Thank you all for coming. If I'm honest, I'm surprised you guys chose to come. I do appreciate your presence, the information you shared. I do hope that you do follow up with the additional information that some members requested that you committed to providing. I'll just end with Jennifer, the I'm familiar with the internship program because of it coming to my daughter's school and her sitting in that workshop. And although she does not and will not work for WeEnergies, she appreciated even just the workshop and the outreach. I later ran into the woman who ran the workshop a couple weeks later, and she shared with me her take on my daughter and the impression she made and the other young people in the room. So when you say just the program, affects more than the 40, I can truly agree with you on that. I know it had an impact on my daughter and I know that those young people also had an impact even on the staff that does the program. In recent weeks, as our own Public Works Department has shared with us different things that they're doing. I know I and some others have encouraged them to examine how you all do the program to see more ways for our public works department to get into the schools and to offer opportunities, particularly that lead to trades and family supporting work that we even have available. I understand why it's a national model and why people are looking at it as well. I think the debate over public or private, the debate over the data centers, this is going to go on for quite some time. But I think there is no debate in my mind about the need to continue to create opportunity for young people to have family supporting jobs and careers they enjoy. So I do see the value in that and erasing the barriers for some that have been there. So I appreciate that work that is being done. With that.

Madam Chair, just one last thing. Could you please share your contact information? There is another school, Cutting Edge, that's in my district and it's a trade school. So I would like for you guys to kind of work together and See if there's anything that you can do to support each other while we're encouraging our students to get involved in those trades. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

If there are no further questions, Alderman Brower will move to place on file. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Okay. Next up, item 18, file number 260, oh, no, no, item number 19, file number 260491, communication from the Department of Public Works relating to developing and presenting uses for urban wood taken in by the forestry services. and this is sponsored by me. Members may recall for the last several years done a series of files to try to get us to think about all of the wood that we dispose of as a city and to think of maybe some creative, maybe some different ways that we could be using or supporting the use of by different companies and individuals in the community of this wood than we were doing. So this file is a... is the communication between Public Works as they examine the possibilities of what other uses they could have for the wood or what other things they could be doing. This is the file where they're supposed to come back to us to tell us. So that was the point. And I know, I think Alderman Westmoreland, you also had some concern about the wood. So this is the point of the file, and so I will allow Department of Public Works to go ahead and update us.

Erin Stoeckel, Forestry Services Manager again. So I wanted to just kind of share where we're at with how we want to move forward with this exploration. The last time this was formally examined was in February 2025. We put out an RFI at that time to see if there was interest in the community or by partners, whoever, public or private, or not public, you know, private or small, to whatever scale, to manage the amount of logs that we produce annually. And there was no response to that initial RFI. Our current arrangement is with, oh, my God. with Ketamal Rain Harwood. Sorry, I totally blanked on that for a second. But they take all of our logs annually. The status quo is they take all of our logs, we pay to ship them to Ketamal Rain, and then they harvest maybe 20 to 30% of the logs that we use. The rest is waste. And the reason that arrangement is mutually beneficial is we aren't charged any tipping fees, which is unique for Ketamal Rain. For other municipalities or organizations, they do charge those waste tipping fees. But to see like what other options are out there and we're gonna be putting out another RFI with a little more, I guess, room for exploration on what the capacity is in the community. So last time it was put out with, okay, can you take all of the tonnage that we produce every year? We still wanna know that information but also leave room for people to respond and say if they can't handle the 2,000 plus tons that we handle every year, what could they handle or what is their interest? to give us a better idea of how we may be able to be creative and like supporting smaller scale operations or working with individuals or even to the point where there's like, with urban wood in general, it's kind of considered a niche market, meaning it's a lot of like small woodworkers or like smaller scale operations that are interested in this. And if there is a market for that locally, we just want to better understand the full scale of it. Because our approach so far has been to think that the market may be Saturated with a little bit the with kettle moraine and then there's also a happy tree service that does urban wood Milling and supplying but anyway, I'm sorry, but yeah Do they take all species of wood or is it is there some wood that's more desirable than others? Kettle moraine they take all of it. They take all they take all of it Yeah

Even box elders?

Well, we don't really have box elders. I mean, they take all the wood that we produce, which is made up of our urban canopy population. So we don't have box elders. We're not sending them that. But other species that are less desirable for milling are like silver maple or that are more prone to disease or decay. They're not getting ideal. They're not all walnut.

This arrangement with them affects how we cut the trees. because you gotta have long trunks. I mean, you gotta keep length for them to be useful, right?

Right, when we harvest the logs, we do try to harvest as long of a length as possible. But the other thing to note too, compared to like a traditional forestry milling operator, harvest operation, we're not pruning the trees to get the maximum like log trunk length. So on average, the logs we produce are like four to six feet long. Ideally for like a milling operation, they'd want at least eight feet. So they're dealing with nuances that way and then just contamination from metal or nails and things like that too.

Right, okay, thank you.

Any other questions from committee?

Madam Chair. Just a question on when you say waste, what does that usually turn into for them?

Yeah, mulch. It's either mulch or sometimes firewood if they can get firewood from it too for anything that can't be harvested to a higher use.

And they sell that? Or do they supply it to...

They might sell it. A lot of milling operations also have a co-regeneration system to help with the drying process, meaning that they'll take the waste wood and use it as biomass to fuel and heat their operation to have some energy saving that way. So I know at least part of the waste is used that way, but I'm not sure how much of it.

Got it. Thank you. Yeah.

Have we taken any recent assessment on what they make off of the wood that we send to them?

I'm not sure how much they make other than the amount of logs that they've told us they can use for higher use, which is 20 to 30% of 2,600 tons.

How much does it cost us to ship the wood to them?

That is between 72,000 and 90,000 annually.

I think the RFI with options for people not having to take all of the wood is great. I would also just ask that you also... You all did this, I think, a couple years ago, a peripheral look, but I would just ask that you update a look at what would it look like if we... if we take care of it ourselves, if we set up an operation to take care of it ourselves.

Right. I did find a feasibility study that we did do, this is before I was in this position, but to look at just the local market and then also just to get an initial operating cost for the first year. And the total of that came to about $3.3 million for facility construction, staffing, equipment, the code generation system that I referred to earlier, Previously and then the concern was that that wouldn't that cost doesn't it because it's a niche market That already may be saturated between kettle marine and like happy for instance that the three whatever million plus the additional ongoing cost wouldn't it wouldn't be it wouldn't be financially feasible what was the Study done What in 2025 I Well, that I have yet I can share it with you if you like. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Any other questions on committee? I also would ask before you put out the RFI if I could see it and if I could know the timing of it. Yeah. If there are no other questions, Alderman Westmoreland will move to place on file. Hearing no objections, so order on our 9.30 a.m. agenda, item 20, file number 252235, motion relating to the recommendations of the Public Works Committee relating to licenses. That's the chatter saying taxicab license renewal application. Which one of you are not chatter thing. Yes, I'm right. Raise your right hand right here.

Thank you. The usually a firm

under the penalties and sanctions of perjury of the state of Wisconsin that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth and only the truth?

Yes. Yes.

Are you in receipt of notice of today's meeting with the possibility that your application may be denied?

I'm guessing yes.

uh... please state your name and address for the record uh... and shut the same uh... four four seven east jordan lane oak creek tell me to put his hand down and we'll also get your name and address as well mine?

yes and he's saying three one three six south uh... fifty six street milwaukee wisconsin uh...

There's no police report.

There's no police report. This was scheduled for an objection.

Was the objector notified? Yes. You provided the link as well. Are there any neighbors present to testify? Doesn't look like it. Let the record reflect that there are no neighbors present to testify. Does the committee have any questions? There's no neighbor here to testify, but I did read what the objection was. The objection seemed to be about the fact that he allegedly gave them a flat rate as opposed to letting the machine counted up and he overcharged is he aware that that's not allowed yes Because the concern is just that he does not do that.

He's not gonna do it again All right Where if nobody else has any other questions we're in committee I'm sure I have a question for the who's the actual applicant here Yes, you're the you're the driver. You're the license holder. Okay What's your response to these allegations?

Respond again, yeah. Well, what he told me before I can tell you. Let's have him actually respond and then you can translate for him as opposed to interpret. Okay.

Well, he said it's been almost a year that this happened, but he said that she told him she wants to go to two, three places, so that's why he gave her a flat rate.

Which is improper.

Yeah, yeah, so that is also improper. So it doesn't matter. Agreed. Yeah, so.

So how long has this gentleman had a license? 23 years. 23, I drive him a lot. Never have that complaint.

Okay, I've heard enough.

So does he understand that even with the multiple sites, that's still not, you can't give the flat, right?

That's okay, I'm sorry. Next time I'll never give.

All right, thank you. Any other questions from committee? All right, we're in committee. Do we have a motion?

Right now. No, that motion was made.

The motion by Alderman Baumann is denial. Do we have any objections to that motion other than my own?

I object. I'll object.

Motion fails three to two. Do we have another motion? Move approval. The motion by, the motion by, I do have a question before we take it up. Are we able to do like warning letters and stuff like that like we do for licensing? Yes. Would the maker of the motion be amenable to add in a warning letter?

Yes. I'd like to move renewal with a warning letter.

All right. The motion by Alderman Brower is approval renewal with a warning letter. Are there any objections to that motion? I object. Hearing one objection, the motion passes. Good luck.

Thank you. Thanks. Thank you.

All right, that's it.

With that, that is our final business. With no further business, we are adjourned.