Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, we'd like to open the meeting tonight. If everyone would please stand for the Pledge of the Flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Roll call. Amber.

Rich Nuttall.

Here.

Chantala.

Here.

Joe Antonelli?

Here.

Jim Ennis? Here. Dominic Condori? Matthew Johnston?

Here.

Jim Esposito? No, we do not. We have Andrew Griffin, we have Tom today, and we have sitting in Jacob Farbman.

Here.

Our number one presence.

All right, I'll ask for a motion on the approval of the minutes from our March 4th meeting, which was a long time ago. I got to be honest with you. I read the minutes. It seemed fine to me. Anybody else have any question on the minutes? As for a motion to approve?

Motion.

Second?

I'll second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? I wasn't here, so I can't go over. That's right. All right. But it still passes. I'll abstain. Three. Okay. First item up. Approval of George School Campus Master Plan. Master Plan contains a multi-year vision for improvements for the George School Campus at 1690 Langhorne Newtown Road, which contains a tax map parcel 22-004-004 in the RA2 Residence Agricultural and RA3 Residence Agricultural Zoning District. Hello, Ed. Haven't seen you in a while.

Lucky you. And lucky me. I'm back though and back to talk about a topic that I think we first introduced to Planning Commission and Board last year and that is the proposed master plan for various presently seven discrete projects within the limits of the campus and since we were here last time, We have submitted and have had approved and are getting ready to start the first phase of that master plan, which are some improvements to the Walton Performing Arts Center. There's also been a revision to the plan in that since you saw the schedule of improvements or projects last, there's been a new addition that is now moved up in priority to number two, and that is an indoor equestrian center that is located in the same area where the outdoor riding area was previously. In all other respects, the other campus projects that were listed on the original master plan still remain. Nothing's been removed, but we've added the equestrian center, which is phase two, and hopefully you'll be seeing individual land development plan for that. As we talked about before, the master plan and the corresponding or companion agreement is designed to give George School some confidence that as they move forward in the next generation, literally in the next 15, 20 years to address these projects. They can do so with the comfort knowing that they have some level of plan approval with the full understanding that full engineered detailed plans still have to be submitted. We're not looking to avoid doing any of that. That will come with each individual phase as is outlined in the master plan agreement. So it gives us the confidence for the 20-year period that's spelled out in the master plan agreement, but it doesn't Eliminate the need for full compliance with the ordinances You might ask why that is why we're proposing that perfect example and it applies to two of these different phases they have identified donors that will subsidize at least right now two specific phases Those donors need to know that there's some confidence that there is a approval process in place that if they make the commitment to fund those discrete projects that we can move forward. So this is as much to give the donor community comfort that we can move forward. So nothing proposed. Everything is within the limits of the campus. Everybody understands and the agreements and the discussions we've had understand full stormwater management, Everything that you would normally require of an applicant, we are doing. You'll start to see this more regularly. I think next phase is two and three. Hopefully you'll see as early as later this year to move ahead. So it just is trying to be thoughtful in how they plan for the next generation of improvements in the campus. None of them are intended to increase the census of the school as we've talked about before. There's no anticipated increase in enrollment because of these improvements. They're done really to enhance the educational experience for the existing students. There's still roughly gonna be the same number of day students and the same number of boarders there. So nothing really changes other than some thoughtful planning which we all think is a good idea. So that's what it's about. And you were all, you and the board, when we presented it conceptually before these agreements, were all supportive of it. Good idea. Glad somebody's thinking about that. And so nothing's changed. So we're still doing the same thing and already following the agreement, even though it hasn't been executed yet.

Okay.

That's it. Thanks, Ed.

Dominic, any questions?

No, not at this time. We would just expect to see, like Mr. Murphy said, the land development plans come in at the time when these projects are, if they were to come to fruition. So at this time, we don't have any comments.

Okay. Matthew, anything? No? Pete, we'll start with you.

Thank you. Yeah, my only question really on this is, I didn't hear you say, will there be any change in the parking requirement?

No. None? We're not increasing the number of day students or none of that, no. Okay.

And this will just change the sequence of construction, really?

We've added the equestrian ahead of some of the others.

Okay.

That's it. Very good.

Thank you.

And I should have said that both Jim and Andrew have also been part of the review and revision and approval of the agreement. So we're at a point where your solicitor is comfortable as well.

Yeah, the agreement logs him into the terms that he has stated before you this evening.

Good. Tommy, you next?

I'm all good.

Jacob?

I'm good.

I'm good myself. Joe? Good. Amber? Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak on behalf of this case? I don't have the papers yet, so I just figured I'd ask before we bring it up. Seeing as no one from the public wants to speak, I'll make a recommendation of approval for George School Campus Conceptual Master Plan and Campus Master Plan Report. Recommendation is based on master plan entitled George School Campus Conceptual Master Plan, prepared by Gilmore and Associates Incorporated. Recommendation is based on the condition the master plan approval agreement is to the satisfaction of Middletown Township solicitor. So a motion is to approve. I made a motion to approve. Is there a second?

I'll second.

Okay.

Lady's first. Second.

Amber on the second. All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Thanks, Ed. See you. Are you still here for the rest of the evening? Boy, where do you get his bill for one case? All right. Give me one second. Next. Application to amend the previously approved Neshaminy Springs land development plan for 1700, excuse me, Woodburn Road, Pulte Homes. Owner and applicant is requesting to add street lighting to the approved 66 unit townhome community. 1700 Woodburn Road contains a tax map parcel 22-055-201 and in the P professional zoning district. Sir, you have the floor.

Hi, my name is Sam Carlo. I'm the vice president of land acquisitions entitlements for Pulte Homes. I'm here tonight to get a recommendation from the planning commission to approve the addition of 15 streetlights throughout the community. uh pulte purchased this project from a prior developer and uh they did not have street lights approved on the plans at that time so we're here tonight to just ask for the additional 15 street lights okay um anybody have that do we have that plan uh there's at least one i just tried there's one on the screen oh there's one on the screen my screen isn't oh wait did you

So I do have one question. I remember this one. This was like last year, right? And this was where there was an agreement with some Habitat for Humanity homes. No, that's not it. Okay, then nevermind. I don't remember the right thing. Oh, right. But that's not too far from the other one. Like right down the street. Okay, and all you wanna do is add street lighting.

That's it, there's three review letters that we got from township and we're compliant with all of them. So I think two of them were just recommendations to move forward and one just commented on the street lights, which we comply with or will comply with.

Okay, Dominic, anything from you?

Not, no, I mean, we, like Mr. Carlos said, yeah, we worked with Pulte when we realized that the streetlights were inadvertently left off the original plan set. So they wanted to add the streetlights. They provided us a lighting plan, which we reviewed, meets all the township ordinance requirements. And, you know, ultimately it was determined that because they're adding this, they would just need to come back for the amended land development. So we have no comments.

okay matt i guess this is a better thing for you right if it's if yeah so all right uh amber you're up nothing at this time okay joe no i don't have anything I have a question. I'm sure our lighting engineer looked at this to make sure that the light isn't going to be so bright that it affects any of the residents and neighbors.

Yeah, so how do I say this? The lighting engineer that we used to have, he passed away about a year or two ago. So we've been relying on RVE to do the lighting review work now.

And Dominic, it was okay as far as the amount of light?

Yeah, so that's on the lighting plan that the applicant's engineer provided to us, which, like I said, meets all the Township ordinance requirements.

Okay, okay. That's the only question I have. Jacob?

No questions.

Tommy?

Just a quick question. Is this something you generally do in all your developments?

Streetlights?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Because I thought it was kind of strange when they came in in front of us, the first people you got it from didn't have streetlights. And I thought, that's different because usually everybody, it's everybody's toning it down instead of, okay, you know, we're not going to do any. So.

Yeah, we didn't pick it up that there was no streetlights on there.

I mean, it's a good safety thing, too, you know, so.

Pete.

So the only question I have, I recall when this first came in, there was a very generous set of landscaping that was proposed with this. Is any of that gonna change?

No.

None whatsoever. And I see in your lighting diagrams that all the new lighting is just the streets, nothing in the rear yard, so nothing will impact the neighbors, as Rich had indicated. Is there any new lighting proposed by the entrance from the main road?

No, not up against, immediately against the Woodburn Road. No, nothing.

Okay. So of all the drawings that you resubmitted, only one addresses the lighting. There are no changes on the other drawings other than to show light standards. Is that right, Dominic?

That's right, yeah.

Okay, thank you.

You got houses standing over there. Yeah.

Is there anybody out there in the public that wants to speak on behalf of this case?

I'm getting the feeling everybody's here about chickens.

Jim, you're good with everything? Okay. Then I will make a recommendation for approval for amended final land development for S slash LD 24-3. application amending a previously approved land development proposing a 66-unit townhome community at 1700 Woodburn Levittown, PA. 19057 Bucks County tax map parcel 22-055-201. Recommendation is based on a plan entitled amended preliminary slash final land development plans for Neshaminy Springs IEPN 22-055201, comprising 32 sheets, dated April 1st, 2024, and last revised on May 4th, 2026. Prepared by Keith A. Lieberman, P.E. of T&M Associates of Philadelphia, PA. Recommendation is further based on compliance with the comments provided. A June 2nd, 2026 letter from Isaac E. Kessler, P.C. of Remington and Vernick Engineers. They are Middletown Township's engineer. B, May 28th, 2026 letter from Matthew D. Johnston, P.E. of Pannoni & Associates. They are Middletown Township's traffic and transportation engineers. And C, a May 29th, 2026 letter from Middletown Township Environmental Advisory Council. On that, I make a motion to approve. Is there a second?

I'll second that.

Jacob, on a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Yep, thank you. Okay, I'm just trying to find the correct paperwork. All right, next. Application for preliminary and final land development to develop a portion of a parking lot area at the Langhorne Square Shopping Center into approximately 510 square foot, seven brew drive-through coffee shop. The Langhorne Square Shopping Center is at 1281 East Lincoln Highway, contains a tax map parcel 22-047-011, and is in the C Commercial Zoning District.

Correct.

You have the floor, ma'am.

Thank you. Brielle Brown with Captain Stewart. We are the firm that's representing the applicants. I also have with me our full team tonight, which includes Adam Hendricks, who's a representative from Federal Realty, which is the applicant. As you just stated, Nick Lewis, who is from Bowler Engineering, who is our engineer for our plans, Peter Spitzak from TPD, as well as Zach Roxam from Seven Brew. So as we move through the comments tonight, we can have them address your questions as they come up. So as you said, the applicant does propose to develop a small portion of the northern corner of the property which is located at 1281 lincoln highway with a 510 square foot seven brew with a 270 square foot small cooler with no indoor seating and two drive-through lanes with one back by bypass lane we have submitted an updated waiver letter which is dated today i believe which removes our requested waiver related to stormwater We did confirm with your township engineer that we are able to meet the stormwater requirements. So we will not need any waivers related to stormwater. Based on our conversation with township staff, there was also some concern about sidewalks at the property frontage. So we also have a requested waiver to provide a fee in lieu with regards to sidewalks. And other than that, we're including our remaining waivers, which are related to concurrent submission of the prelim and final plans to allow for drainage pipes size less than 15 inches and to allow for less than a five foot radius for curvature for curb lines. LASTLY, WE DID ALSO CONFIRM WITH TOWNSHIP STAFF SPECIFIC TO TRAFFIC ABOUT THE OVERALL CONFIGURATION AND LAYOUT OF OUR PROPOSED PLAN. AND AT THIS TIME, WE WOULD ASK OR WE WOULD BE AMICABLE REALLY TO CONDITION TO AGREE TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER REGARDING THE OVERALL CONFIGURATION JUST SO WE CAN REACH A CONCLUSION THAT WORKS BOTH FOR US AND THE TOWNSHIP. related to that configuration that we have presented before you all tonight. And then with regards to the review letters that we did receive from the township, we do have the Remington and Burnick letter dated April 20th, the EAC letter, which was dated April 29th, 2026, both Pannonia letters, which were dated May 4th and May 28th. The May 4th one, we would like to talk through just a couple of additional comments in that one, as well as the March 30th letter from the fire marshal. Generally, it is a will comply. I will touch on the two comments that we have regarding that May 4th letter. And we have not received the Bucks County commission review letter yet. So we will comply with that. AS NEEDED. TURNING TO THE TWO COMMENTS INCLUDED IN THE MAY 4TH LETTER, SPECIFICALLY COMMENTS 4 AND 16, WHICH BOTH ESSENTIALLY RELATES TO TRAFFIC SIGNALS AND EASEMENTS, IT IS CURRENTLY OUR POSITION THAT THERE IS ESSENTIALLY NO WAIVER NEEDED FOR THOSE IMPROVEMENTS AS THEY WERE INSTALLED BY THE ENJOINING PROPERTY OWNER. And there was initial conversation with the property owner that ultimately ceased. And while we would be amicable to working through those conversations regarding the traffic signals, we do not ultimately believe that it's our obligation to carry out those improvements that are requested in the letter at this time.

That's the Pannoni letter you're talking about?

Correct. The May 4th Pannoni letter, comments 4 and 16. Really regarding comment 16.

I don't have that. I'm sorry to interrupt, but she's saying comments 4 and 16 on Pannoni's letter from May 28th?

Yeah, I believe we have a... May 4th. Okay, but...

I don't have that.

But we also have a more recent letter from May 28th for you, don't we? That was a traffic impact study, my apologies, all right. So you have the review of the traffic impact study. The May 4th letter was a letter from a previous packet, then my, yeah, so. And we didn't get that? You got it probably in a previous submission when they were supposed to come here back in May without realizing that the May 28th letter was only tackling the traffic impact statements.

So I can get a copy of that letter for everyone if that's needed or... She's asking about, she's questioning comments four and 16 and we don't know what they are.

So I think Matt can probably chime in and kind of discuss what they are.

Go ahead, Matt. Yeah, we'll let Matt take over on that then.

Sure, I mean, we can have... Okay, so essentially comment four relates to...

Yeah, I do. Just read through them.

OK, yeah. So basically, comment four relates to, I can just read it. So it says, show any traffic signal easements on the property. Traffic signal easements must be provided for traffic signal equipment, signage, and pavement markings as shown on the traffic signal permit plan, which are located outside the existing right-of-way. If easements are required, prepare, record, and reflect said easements on the traffic signal permit plans associated with the shopping center. And this includes the Lincoln Highway. and Langhorst Square West Lowe's access intersection as well as the Lincoln Highway and Highland Park commercial driveway. And so our position is essentially there is no easements on our side. And so because they were ultimately, those improvements were essentially by the adjoining property owner that we don't really have anything to do with the easements at this time. It would be the adjoining property owner that should have executed those easements, not us.

Okay, Matt, you want to respond to that?

Yeah, this happens a lot. Signals get installed with developments at some point in the past, and there weren't easements that were recorded. And the township maintains and operates the traffic signals. There's equipment that is outside of the right-of-way, so the township really needs an easement to go in and maintain and operate the traffic signals. So at this time, when the development has an application in front of you, we would like to make it a requirement that an easement be provided to the township to maintain them and have the appropriate access to the equipment to operate the driveway.

And there is no existing easement as of right now?

Not that we're aware of. If there was, you know, we said just provide the easement so, you know, update them on the traffic signal permit plan.

Do you have a response to that, ma'am?

Yeah, and I would say while we agree that an easement largely makes sense here, we would also withstand that we're not the party that should be executing that easement.

I guess I would say you've got to find the party who can execute that agreement, and how can we turn around and say anything in a positive way if we don't know who owns that property enough to give an easement for Middletown Township to maintain the traffic signal?

I'm gonna jump in here again, Adam Hendricks, I'm with Federal Realty on behalf of the landlord. I think ultimately there are two things that play as it relates to, or that come into play here as it relates to the easements. In terms of providing the township with an easement to maintain the traffic signals, I think that is something ultimately that we can comply with. What I would request of the board is that you allow us to run through that process, which introduces PennDOT into the process while we continue to move through the development of the site. If we hold it up now, you're essentially delaying the project from commencement. So if that's something we can agree to, we're happy to give the township the required easements as it relates to that. That is separate from 16, which we'll address next.

Yeah, so this is actually not uncommon as far as what Mr. Hendricks is asking about is that we don't normally stall projects awaiting for PennDOT's involvement. We obviously don't allow for construction until then, but there's plenty of projects that you have given a recommendation and have also been approved by the board that still had to get straightened out by PennDOT and still had to get all the necessary approvals with PennDOT. They don't get to really do any construction until then, So it is a simple easement that you've actually, I mean a simple condition that you have granted before where it's basically the easement language and anything to do with the easement would just be to the satisfaction of the township solicitor and township traffic engineer and would work with the developer.

If I may, Jim. Yeah. We've certainly seen that arrangement in the past. I think I'm asking candidly for a little bit more here. Okay. We do not want to delay construction for this. We have our traffic engineer with us who can talk about the administrative nature of the process with PennDOT. It is not something that should hold up our ability to provide these easements, but as we can all relate in this room, PennDOT typically takes a significant amount of time that would put a delay on the process.

okay so then it would be more of a you don't get the full-blown certificate of occupancy and okay that's fine okay ma'am what was item number 16 then we got an idea of what does everybody on the board have an idea of what we're talking about on item four we're looking middle town's looking for an easement to service the traffic light but they don't want to slow down the project right is that what i'm getting good okay

So they wanted to actually get to, because it is, as pointed out, an administrative thing. It's not an actual physical thing. So they would just get all that administrative aspects taken care of, get the full approval by PennDOT prior to actually being able to run and open and have people occupy the building. So they would still just be going through construction while concurrently also trying to address that item.

And would this easement require, like, an engineered plan showing the part of the area that Middletown can access to service the traffic light and back? That's what that would require, Matt?

That would show on the traffic signal permit plan. So that's where it would be shown, and then the recorded documents and any key bits would be filed.

Okay. All right. Okay, what was item 16?

Yes, item 16, just to wrap this up, was to install a pedestrian stub poles for the driver crossing at East Lincoln Highway to meet the latest ADA standards. The push button locations are to be within 10 reach of the landing areas. And we have largely the same comments, essentially that, We will be amicable to working with the adjoining property owner, but we did not install those improvements and don't ultimately believe it's our obligation to finish them.

And I can supplement here as well, reinforcing that position, right? At the time that, and we believe the PED poll requirements would have come up when the Chick-fil-A was developed across the street. At the time the developer reached out to Federal Realty, we asked for a plan showing the extent of their improvements and we did not get a response. um we are more than willing to work with the developer across the street who was i believe required to make those improvements at the time we're happy to give them access and whatever easements would be required in terms of temporary construction easements to allow them to come and complete that portion but as it relates to our development our development does not increase pedestrian activity at that intersection. We are largely a drive-through operation, as presented at the zoning board previously. It does not seem as if we are doing anything that intensifies pedestrian use at this site, and as a result, we don't believe that this should be our requirement. Instead, it was something missed by the prior developer, who again, we're happy to work with, such that they can come in and complete that portion of the improvements.

Just to be clear, was it the Chick-fil-A that was obligated to do those improvements originally?

Chick-fil-A was asked by PennDOT to improve all four corners of the intersection to the latest ADA standards. I don't know the full story. All I know is that information was provided and there was some coordination. At the end of the day, the improvements on this shopping center side did not get implemented. There's push buttons that are out there, but they're not in the best location that meets the ADA requirements. If there had been easements there, it all would have been put where it was supposed to be, but there was no easements at the time. That's why we want to get easements, so we can make these types of improvements in the future as we need to. But so there was no easements at the time, and PennDOT said that if you can't get cooperation from the property owner to do X, it wasn't what needed to be done, but they let them move forward with their project because they can't get on somebody else's property. At this point, we feel like, especially given the fact that we're looking at a waiver for the sidewalk requirements, that this is, it's not a big ask. Dollar-wise, they're already modifying the traffic signal permit to show the traffic signal easements. So to put two stub poles in and move the push buttons where they should be to accommodate the latest ADA standards, we don't think is a big ask.

Okay. Do you have anything else ma'am to add?

No, that would be it for us.

All right, Dominic, I see you had a list.

Yeah, we have a letter with a number of comments. A lot of them are just cleanup items on the plan, our big ticket items, I would say. They did mention and are addressing, one was the waiver for the stormwater management requirements, which I've been working with the applicant's engineer. They will be complying. They provided a sketch plan on how they plan to meet the requirements, so that waiver can be removed from their waiver request letter, or I guess it already has been removed. We had some comments on the circulation on site, similar to what the traffic engineer had, which it sounds like they will be working with Matt, and I assume us, to address as well. And then the question about the sidewalk, which it sounds like they'll be providing a sidewalk fee in lieu, which we all know is pretty common. Other than that, like I said, a lot of the comments in our letter are cleanup items, and as far as I know, that the applicant is willing to comply with.

Yeah, because I don't see any will complies on any of them. Do I have a late letter too? It's April 20th, 2026.

No, that's our latest review letter.

Okay. Are you will comply on all Remington, Vernix?

That's correct, we are. Comments?

Correct. Okay. one through 29. one through 29 correct yes we are okay all right okay so we heard from matt we got dominic matthew gave us a statement amber you got any questions um just that you mentioned you didn't see the bucks county planning commission letter yet and you would comply as it was appropriate is there any concern there on

Yeah, so that, do you have the status? I know they were trying to get a status update on that letter even earlier today. Okay, so it is being reviewed by the Bucks County Planning Commission. In fact, it's a little odd that they haven't released a letter yet.

They've had, to my knowledge, ample time to do that.

so it really comes down to and we've done this before in the past as well is that if they'll they will comply to address any real significant actual you know things that are raised in that letter if there's anything actually raised in that letter that you know but and if there's anything really significant there that the township feels like it needs to be added to the plan then they might they do kind of run the risk of having to maybe appear before you guys again. But so far, we've done this before in the past, and that's never been the case. So it's more of a, they're going to comply with the Bucks County Planning Commission letter and address any real significant comments that would be to the betterment of the community. Yeah. yeah and in our experience we don't see comments that go above and beyond what the township engineer will review here so that's why we wanted to say that we would comply yeah right so and if they if again if they did go beyond what was already kind of raised by by our consultants then then yeah then they would maybe run into an issue of having to maybe appear before you guys but that that i don't really know the case on that's really happened yeah any other questions amer joe

Okay. I just want you to walk me through this. I only have one question. Sure. And it's about item 16 with the pedestrian push buttons. So on the other side of the street, Matthew, you can correct me if I'm wrong, across the highway where Lowe's is and Chick-fil-A are, Chick-fil-A did all their required work on their side. Is that true? Huh? Huh? Right. And so now, you're pretty close to that intersection now, aren't you, where you're going to be? Are you going to be where the Wendy's used to be?

No, it's a vacant portion of our parking lot right now. It's an open parking area. We are at that intersection, sir. Okay. You know, our position here, right, is that they came on and did a portion of the improvements.

Who's they?

Chick-fil-A and through their development. You can see when you go back through the site that they have installed ADA ramps. Matt, I think you would agree.

On the other side of the street? On our side.

They came onto our property. And again, I want to be very clear here. We were more than willing to provide access and any required easements. We simply asked for what the scope of the work would be and the easement area to which we did not receive a response, right? Even though we did not get a response, they still came on and did what looks to be just a portion of the requested or required improvements. I don't know why the PED polls were not complete, whereas the rest of them were. I don't know if that's a disconnect between PennDOT.

They were outside the right-of-way.

The poles are? The poles are outside of the right of way.

But do you think it's unreasonable that we're granting the waiver for the sidewalks to swap those two projects?

I don't necessarily think that it's reasonable or unreasonable. I simply maintain the position that It is not, our proposed use does not intensify pedestrian activity at that intersection. We don't see a lot of pedestrian activity at that intersection. And ultimately, I think that the developer who should have been required to do that work are the ones that should be responsible for doing so.

So what you're saying is nobody from Chick-fil-A, Lowe's, employees would ever wanna go grab a coffee across the street?

That's not at all what I'm saying, sir. What I'm saying is that we do not see and we do not anticipate an increase in pedestrian activity as a result of our development.

And then my next question apart that is if Chick-fil-A did most of the work, why can't you just finish it up and then everybody's happy?

That's a great question. I think it's something that we can certainly consider. I think a piece of this is that we also will then need to go back to PennDOT and go through that process.

Is it a huge PennDOT issue, Matt, because the poles were located in the wrong spot?

PennDOT's reviewed everything. They know what they originally wanted. The Chick-fil-A has completed all the improvements that PennDOT required of them. That project is complete and it is closed out. They had requested these pedestrian stub poles, but they were ultimately, for whatever reason, the cooperation with the other property owners i don't know where the communication broke down i don't know both sides of the story i just know that the pedestrian polls did not get put in and we'd like them put in now but and so in the end here all we're talking the all the ada ramps are in on that side oh that's the only improvement that needs to be done in my oh on that side is just the pedestrian so we're here so we're here and the only thing we're talking about is two poles two poles will push buttons on them but that the infrastructure is already in Right now, the push buttons are on the mast arm support, you know, that has the signal out over the street. And we're talking about putting a stub pole in. It's like a four-inch pole that's closer to where the curb ramps are so that people can push the button at the curb ramp and move the pedestrian push button was put on that support pole, moving it on to this short stub pole.

Are the conduits all in already for that?

they would have to run from the pole to their new stub pole.

All on the one side of the street.

On the two corners. Two corners.

All right, so I'll get back to the applicant and say, now we're down to two poles and a little bit of conduit.

We are aware of the request. I think Matt will acknowledge that, yes, it's two pedestrian poles. We're in essence talking about tearing up the sidewalks, right, to get from the mast arm over. You don't think so? okay can i ask of the board this can we take the opportunity if you're willing to issue a recommendation on approval conditioned on us reviewing this piece and vetting it out further and circling back that's something we can do but it's hard for me to wrap my head around this request but i would only be in a position to grant your recommendation with that as a request i mean we're not if they were telling you look you have to go and you got to

put in all these ADA ramps, and you have to do this with PECO and that with PECO, but it seems like Chick-fil-A did all the legwork.

And can we condition this the same way as the other one that requires PennDOT that they just wouldn't get the full CO, you can continue construction, you can do what you gotta do, just make sure it's done before the end?

we're not trying to hold anything up we just yeah that I mean that's absolutely can be yeah I didn't hear you it's it's they can continue construction but it's just like the other thing oh yeah yeah yeah but I'm yeah I wouldn't say stop the construction of it but I'm thinking that here we are down to talking about two pedestrian poles and you're telling me that people from Lowe's want your coffee so I'm thinking that they're going to need a push button to get back to work right I mean, let's look at this in a common sense.

Listen, I understand your position. If that's its condition is approval, I think that's something ultimately we don't have a choice but to agree to. I'll pass it off to Jacob. You have any questions?

Well, my primary concern was the drain issue, and you addressed that. I just want to know, is this requesting compliance with the fire services two recommendations about the water supply and able to get the tower ladder in?

You're talking about the fire marshal or yes.

OK, that was it.

Zombie. You said that you're not anticipating pedestrians store counter in this place.

I'm saying that we don't anticipate counter service.

In other words, it can you only buy coffee or sitting under said we're going to just have our seven brew person. Can you walk in and buy a cup of coffee?

How are you guys doing? My name is Zach Roskam. My wife and I are the local franchisees for Seven Brew and really appreciate the opportunity to be here today.

And thank you for your time.

In terms of your question, we technically do have a place where pedestrians can come walk up. It is underneath the canopy and protected. They cannot come inside. But if you walk up to our site, someone will come out to you with an iPad and take your order. But we always let them know that it is actually slower to walk up because we only have one line in terms of when the drinks are made. So if you walk up, you're actually behind the last car in line. And that discourages people from walking up. And as a result, we tend to have less than .5, our actual sales numbers show we're less than .5% walk up in terms of sales. In a day, you're talking about 25%, you said, or 20?

0.5, 0.5. Oh, 0.5, I'm sorry, I thought you said 25. Mike, it's hard for us to hear about something else.

Sorry about that, absolutely.

Because we keep talking about pedestrians, I'm wondering how many pedestrians you're going to have there in a day?

We typically get fewer than five a day. We're talking about very few pedestrians.

Okay, and I was wondering if you had a counter, then you're encouraging a little bit of pedestrian. If you'll come out and meet them, you're saying we'll take you, but we're not encouraging that.

We have the option.

Yeah, you'd rather they stay in their cars.

But we would rather they stay in their cars. That's correct.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, I guess it goes back to federal reality. Now, Redner's is right there, and that section of your parking lot is always full. How many parking spots are you losing for this building? And are you still under the code as accountant done?

Yes, this went through a variance process before seeing you guys and that the parking was addressed at that time.

And we are still compliant. Because usually that section, that part of that parking lot is usually filled most of the day.

No, we're still compliant. I think to his point, we went through zoning approval and even with the reduction of 57 parking spaces, we're still well over parked.

OK, and I take it there's additional volume going to be at that light that was taken into the traffic studies.

I can let their traffic engineer talk more about it, but the majority of the traffic that's generated for this site is bypass. You know, people are driving down Lincoln Highway, they pull into the site to get their coffee and off they go. So it's not, there's, I think there's two new trips in the p.m. peak hour for the traffic impact study. So it's a very.

I'm not talking about pass by, I'm talking about getting in and out of there. Because that's a busy traffic light also, especially now that Chick-fil-A is across the street. Lowe's, it was always busy with Lowe's. So now you're going to be at, I know we just lost Wendy's, but they weren't doing that great there.

So this is Pete Spizak with TPD. We did a traffic study. Obviously, traffic study, we have to look at existing conditions. We add a background growth factor to those existing conditions, do another analysis, and then we take the traffic from the site, add that to the intersection, and do another analysis. Based on the results of the analysis, Zero improvements need to be made. No traffic signal timing even needs to be updated or retimed or anything. And the intersection operates within 0.1 second of delay between the no build condition versus the build condition. So there's very little impact to that intersection.

Okay.

There is a Starbucks already in that shopping center, correct? And didn't have any comments. I can count that as one giant complex there. Oh, yeah. There's a Starbucks right down the road, isn't there?

But that light right there is a very busy light going in and out from the other side. We're coming out between the gym and Redner's. It's a well-used light.

Well, and I will say this, too. With the Chick-fil-A, they did just do a pretty significant upgrade to that intersection. They They upgraded all the signal equipment. They added another lane on their approach. They obviously retimed the signal.

Yeah, there improvements were already on the other side of the road. Right.

But but it also helped the entire intersection.

Sure. Yeah.

Right. So so with the little traffic that we add to that intersection, it has no very, very, very little impact to the operations of the of the signal. So at the end of the day, like Matt said, Matt reviewed our traffic study. They had zero comments on the actual analysis of the traffic study. So we're showing very little impact to that intersection with this site.

Okay, well, one of the things we always hear about is traffic, so that's why I figured I'd ask.

Thank you. So I only had really three concerns here. Maybe I didn't hear this at first, but what are your hours of operation? And forgive me if I missed that.

so we are open 5 30 a.m seven days a week and we close from sunday to thursday at 10 p.m friday and saturday at 11 p.m is that generally commensurate with the other that is all that shopping center The Starbucks actually opens earlier than we do. They open, I believe, at 4.30. Okay.

And what do you sell? You sell coffee only?

We are beverage focused. So we sell coffee, we sell lemonades, teas, milkshakes, flavored sodas, energy drinks. Okay. No food is really prepared on site? there's no hot food on site no food preparation on site the only snack that we have is a pre-packaged muffin top that is pre-made and just grab and go from the fridge and that allows us to to be very fast and efficient through our drive-through okay and secondly matt i just want to be uh we don't have your letter here so i just want to be certain you are recommending that these applicants install those two signal

Pedestrian poles. That is our township engineer's recommendation.

Okay.

And you do agree with their TPD study about no significant increase in traffic?

Okay.

And then a question for our solicitor. Are we able to vote in the absence of the Planning Commission? This was to Amber's point. In the absence of the Planning Commission letter of recommendation, are we able to vote

Yeah, you are able to proceed without the Bucks County Planning Commission letter with the understanding that if there's something in that letter that the applicant does not intend to comply with, that they'll come back before you.

It would be provisional only?

Correct, yeah.

If there wasn't something on there, it would come back here first, or it goes to the supervisor?

What mechanism makes that so? Because I've got to be honest with you. I'm leery about all these applications that we get, and then there are provisional things. We vote them. If this is so, if this becomes provisos and so forth, then we never see them again.

Yeah, so I would put a condition in the approval that if there is something in the Bucks County Planning Commission that they don't intend to comply with, that they'll appear before you again. Otherwise, I think the assumption is that it will be a will comply.

Because if this gets voted here today, yes, in another week or so, they're at the supervisors. Is that right?

that's correct yeah i believe they're scheduled for monday but there is and i already did discuss that with with their uh rob their attorney that that this they have to have that letter in hand prior to going to board of supervisors like this that that's just a condition right now but a planning commission letter yeah yes the bucks county planning commission letter because i the board of supervisors will not give any kind of approval without that letter in hand

Yeah.

If you look at our recommendation letters, it's item F that says condition that the comments in the Bucks County Planning Commission review letter are addressed.

Those are my two issues, really. The Planning Commission review, I know, and you said in testimony that you would agree to whatever they come back with.

With Henry, should there be anything substantial, we're happy to come back.

And my other issue are these two notifiers, the two pole-mounted notifiers.

You good, Pete?

Yeah.

Okay, I'm gonna go back over one thing, the waivers.

Before you go in there, Rich, can I just ask the franchise owner just one question? Only because it was raised a few times during the review by others. On the design, there's a table? Yes. What is the purpose of that table?

So there is a picnic table because it's a 510 square foot building. It has no seating inside, no place to sit down. So the picnic table there is for employee training and employee breaks. So that is where our employees go when they need a little bit of a rest. Thank you. It's not for customers. Thank you. Absolutely. we typically don't police it but as we mentioned earlier we have very very few pedestrians who come to our site so it is very rarely ever used by a customer but if someone sat there we wouldn't stop them

Because if it's there, somebody might use it. That's human nature.

Yeah, and I think we're okay with that if they want to occasionally use it, but we don't see a lot of volume even with that there.

You don't want to see this when they're done.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Thank you.

I'm looking at the waivers. Didn't I hear they were asking for a waiver from concrete inside, from sidewalk?

A fee in lieu, a fee in lieu instead.

A fee in lieu, right, but it's not, what item's that? Concurrent submission, five foot radius, drainage, stormwater.

There's number four here, on June 3rd. Section 440419A, to provide sidewalk as requested by the Town Hall by way of a fee in lieu.

Oh, it's not on Remington-Vernick's letter.

No, there's a waiver request letter in the packets. It's dated June 3rd, I can give you one right now.

Oh, okay, I got it. Actually, the first three are the same exact ones in Remington-Vernick's letter, and then the fourth one's different.

Correct.

Right, okay. I just wanted to make sure of that. Is there anybody out in the public?

Do you have anything else to say, sir? I would just say that I'll reinforce our position that as it relates to the PED polls, ultimately, if it's a condition of final certificate of occupancy issuance, if we can move forward with construction, we will comply with that. We'll run through the PEDDOT process, understanding that CO would be held until those PED polls are installed.

Well, I was writing that up as item G as we were speaking there. So I'm going to say that it is going to be a condition for sure as far as we're concerned. Well, let me go back to, is there anybody from the public? Ma'am, you have to come up there and state your name and address, ma'am. And did you sign this? Did you sign up on this sheet? Okay.

Donna Boyle. I live in Parkland, Langhorne. I was just wondering why Chick-fil-A wasn't forced to finish those ped polls because if, like you said, if somebody wants to come over from across the street and get a cup of coffee, well, what if somebody from that side of the street wants to go over and get Chick-fil-A and wants to walk back? Wouldn't that be a safety issue for them as well? So, and there were, I mean, it was stated that they didn't finish, completely finish the job, but somehow it got pushed through. And I don't think it should be their responsibility. I think it should be Chick-fil-A's responsibility to finish the job.

I think Matt did touch on that earlier, but Matt, do you want to retouch on that again?

They couldn't do work that was outside of the right of way. They couldn't go on private property to do the work that was requested.

And the ped polls would end up on the private property part. So that's why Chick-fil-A just put the push buttons in the polls.

And did not require them to put the ped polls in because they did not have access to the property. That's my understanding. I know that's outside the right of way. So they completed everything that they were required to complete of PennDOT.

Okay. Do you understand that, ma'am? I get it. So what he's saying is, if I can translate, I think what you're saying, Matt, is Chick-fil-A could not get onto the other, to Federal Realty's property to do the way they were supposed to do it, but they did meet all PennDOT's requirements to get it done. We have to come back up here and talk if you want to talk.

But didn't they say they gave them permission to come onto the property?

No, I didn't hear that anywhere tonight, no.

It was my understanding that you asked them what the scope was. Maybe you pushed back and then it fell apart. How did that?

We certainly did not push back. We are all for increased pedestrian safety. If you look across our portfolio, we are a Class A operator. We invest a lot into our properties. We value pedestrian and vehicular traffic alike. That is certainly not the case. Again, I don't want this piece to hold up the process. I don't believe that ultimately it should be our responsibility. I'm not convinced that the, it doesn't matter. We're happy to agree to it. At the end of the day, it's for the good of the community. We will acknowledge that. And if this is what it takes to get the ped polls in and it benefits the community, so be it.

Seeing as there's no any other questions, I'm just waiting for Jim to write something up for me. And he's calling Matt in on it. But anyway, I don't know. Where's the gentleman go? Oh, I get what you're saying. I guess Chick-fil-A. They made their requirements, what they were required to do. So basically, we're kind of saying, hey, can you just finish it in a proper way? And then everybody benefits from it, you know?

Completely agree. You know, I guess only for the purpose of the record, I'd love to see, we've been in the signal plans, right? The ADA ramps are outside of the right of way as far as I know, so they did come onto our property and encroach to do a portion of the improvements, I just don't know why they weren't all done. That's our stance, but again, this is, I understand the board's position.

We're looking out for what's best for the community. Okay, is there any other questions from the board, anything? Amber, Joe, anything? Okay, I'm just waiting for them to write up the final recommendation. Yeah, I don't know.

So that's your May 28th or is that your May 4th? That's the May 28th.

or maybe yeah no i'm sorry it's made for it's made for it yeah our may 28th says to address okay

all right sorry about the delay there um okay so then i will make a recommendation of approval

For S slash LD number 26-4, application proposing construction of approximately a 510 square foot seven brew drive-through coffee shop at the Langhorne Square Shopping Center at 1281 East Lincoln Highway, Levittown, PA, 19047. Bucks County tax map parcel 22-047-011. Recommendation is based on a plan entitled preliminary and final land development plans for federal rarity OPLP proposed seven brew comprising of 23 sheets and dated February 20th, 2026. Plan is prepared by Matthew Curse, P.E. of Bowler Engineering of Philadelphia, P.A. Recommendation is based on the compliance with the following items. This is where it gets. A, April 20th, 26th letter from Isaac E. Kessler, P.E. of Remington and Vernick, Middletown Townships Engineers. B, a May 4th, 2026 letter from Matthew D. Johnson, P.E. of Pannoni Associates Incorporated, their Middletown Township Traffic and Transportation Engineer.

Chair, just real fast. It's May 4th and the May 28th. Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay, let me correct that. It's May 4th and May 28th letters from Matthew Johnson. You got that May 4th and May 28th? Yes. Okay. C is a March 30th letter from Alan Welsh, Middletown Township Fire Marshal. D is the April 29th letter from the Middletown Township Environmental Advisory Committee. E is a requested waivers listed on June 3rd, 2026 letter from Lindsey Breilinger of Bowling Engineering, which is what we discussed about the one item, which was the fee in lieu for the sidewalk, right? F, condition that the comments in the Bucks County Planning Commission review letter are addressed and complied with. Is that good? And G, allow to proceed with construction while addressing items four, addressing and complying, excuse me. Allow to proceed with construction while addressing and complying items four and 16 of the traffic engineering letter.

All right.

Motions on the table to approve, is there a second?

I'll second.

Second, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Pete, did you vote? Aye. Oh, you didn't, okay. Any opposed? Okay, there you have it. Thank you. See, all we were asking for is two simple polls.

Thank you very much.

All right. Okay, the next item. Joe, what'd you just do with that agenda? The item that you've all been waiting for, patiently, and thank you for your patience, Item number six, proposal to change the Middletown Township zoning ordinance to allow for the keeping and raising of chickens at residential properties. Jim, I believe this is all your spotlight here.

okay sorry yeah so you have my may 28th 2026 uh memo that memo details uh proposed changes that would allow for the keeping and raising chickens in residential property specifically in the ra zoning districts and the r1 and the r2 before i get more into the that actual memo and its content just How we got here up until this point is that this matter, as a part of a policy discussion, has gone in front of the Board of Supervisors at least twice, if not three times, over the span of a couple years now. The last one occurred during the May Board of Supervisors meeting. After all this time, the Board of Supervisors definitely thought it was now at a place that we could begin allowing for them to some extent by changing the zoning code. Anyone that doesn't know that right now, keeping and raising chickens in the zoning code as it's currently required is an agricultural use. You need a minimum of 10 acres and everything else. So it's almost near impossible for anyone to do what the intent of these proposed changes are, which is having some chickens on a residential property and they get to keep and raise them. Now, there's been a lot of community engagement effort prior to getting here. In fact, I'm just gonna kind of just touch on that real quickly. Community engagement effort went through all types of different social media, that through the township, the township's TikTok, the township's Facebook, and the township's Instagram. There was also even a poll questionnaire available on the township's Facebook. The results of that where there was over 23,000 video views at the time that it was out, there was 165 public comments, there was a lot of poll interactions, and there was significant resident discussion and feedback through those outlets. As far as the poll itself, the... Percentage that said to allow, there was, I guess, total poll views were 344. And as far as the percentage that said allow for backyard check-ins, it was 78%. The nos were at 12%, and there was a 10% that said they need more information. We also had Madison reach out to the communities that we knew that did allow for the keeping of raising chickens to certain extents. We did get some responses. There was about 11 communities that were contacted. We did get six communities to have a discussion with Madison. and the primary discussions were, now that you allow them, what kind of issues have you experienced? And quite honestly, especially with the boroughs that do allow them almost anywhere in their borough, Langhorne Borough is probably the best example, they really haven't had too many issues. There's been a few times where they had to tell someone that no, they can't have a rooster, but for the most part, their nuisance issues have been pretty negligible. Now again, that's Langhorne Borough, it's not nearly the size of here, not nearly of the potential of residents that would have that. But all the same, we did kind of reach out to people to see, that did allow them to see what kind of issues they were really experiencing. And there wasn't too many. Yes, there's some bad actors here and there, but they have means of enforcing that if they ever, if anyone is identified to be a bad actor. So with that, you have my May 28th memo. Again, it really gets into all the different sections of zoning code, the township zoning code that would be changed. There would be some definitions added. There would be a change to that section about the agricultural uses to allow for some flexibility for the keeping of raisins and chickens. And then that section would then refer to this whole new section that would be added to your accessory uses section of the zoning ordinance. And as you can see here, it would be a section 2412, 524.12, keeping of chickens. As I already kind of covered, there's the zoning districts in which it would be allowed. There's a minimum lot size requirement of 5,000 square feet. That's actually consistent with a lot of the lot size requirements that we found in other codes that do allow for the keeping and raising of chickens. You can have a maximum of four chickens, but you're allowed an additional chicken per every 5,000 square feet of lot area beyond that minimum lot size of 5,000 square feet. Keeping up roosters is prohibited. There's non-commercial use provisions where displaying, selling, offering for sale, bartering, or giving away chickens, chicks, eggs, or manure from the property is prohibited. There's obviously a long provisional part here, a requirement where you cannot just have the chickens roam around freely on other people's properties, residential streets and so forth. They need to be confined in a chicken coop and or a chicken run. You can only have a limitation of one chicken coop and one chicken run per property. They shall only be located in rear and side yards and you cannot have a chicken runner or a chicken coop in your front yard. There's a setback limitation for where they can be located from adjacent property lines and that'd be 15 feet. Maximum height is eight feet for the chicken coop and or chicken run. And the chicken coops and no runs cannot exceed 50 square feet and you must also provide at least four square feet for each check chicken kept on the property. Then we get into a lot of the sanitary requirements. I'm not gonna really get too into those, but there's a lot of sanitary requirements, not only about chicken feces, noise, odor, that sort of thing, as well as the keeping of the feed, and also any kind of water troughs, tanks, and watering containers to ensure that there wouldn't be any kind of pest or rodent harborage, as well, again, as any other kind of associative nuisance issues. There is a provision that's allowed for slaughtering and butchering. This is actually consistent with a lot of the other codes that we found, but you need to do that completely within the personal dwelling of that residential property. None of that can be happening outside of the dwelling. And there is even a provision for composting. That yes, you can use some of the remnants, the feces and so forth, for composting on your own property, but you cannot be sharing your composting with with others or selling it or anything like that so i kind of really flew through those requirements as you can see there's a lot more to it i'm i'm sure you have some questions but that's it in a nutshell as far as i i do especially with working with the township solicitor's office also looking at other codes that are in existence i think there is a a great deal of requirements here that would be very preventative from from it to be a real nuisance issue within the community

Sorry, thank you, Jim. Okay, first off is Matt, any traffic issues with the chickens? You're good, all right. That was an easy one for you. Dominic, anything? Okay, who went first, you Amber or Pete? All right, go for it.

I just am curious, what are the penalties for violating these rules?

It's a zoning code issue. So the zoning code issue treats all violations the same way. There's an enforcement notice that needs to be issued to the property and clearly stating what that violation is and how they can address it. They usually have about five days to contact me to give me an action plan on how you're going to address it. And they do, and this is by law, by their own right, in the zoning ordinance, they have 30 days to fully comply before we actually, if they don't comply within that 30 days, we then file with the district judge and it becomes, they're subject to fines and penalties. Yeah, the fine is $500 a day. Joe? No questions.

I'm going to circle back to myself right now and pass it off to Jacob. Jacob, do you have anything?

I do. I have three concerns. One thing I would recommend we consider would be a grace period for people who already have chickens, because we know people already do, to ensure that they comply with this ordinance if and when it becomes law. I don't have a recommendation as to what that grace period would be. Two, I would leave it for the supervisors and others to determine that there should be a licensing fee per chicken. because I have no problem with folks keeping chickens as animals in their backyard as long as they comply with the compliance, but I do not want a chicken tax on the rest of the residents who do not have any interest in having chickens, myself included. And three, I'd like to consider some type of annual inspection of maintenance for folks who do have chickens to ensure that they comply with the ordinance if and when it becomes law. And those are my concerns.

And if you mind, I'll touch on that. I did not get into the fact, like right now, what's in front of you is all about the zoning ordinance and possibility of changing the zoning code to allow for this. As it's moved forward and eventually gets in front of the Board of Supervisors, there will be a permit requirement. We're going to try to keep it reasonable for people. In fact, there will probably even be a specialized application just for the pursuit of keeping and raising some chickens. We have not really kind of mulled over if there's going to be an annual inspection fee or some kind of licensing fee that has to be renewed, but that's absolutely a condition that if that's going to be a condition of your recommendation, then it's certainly going to be something that's going to be considered. And we might even change the fee schedule to allow for people to maybe pursue a variance, if they can't meet all these different requirements, not that I know for a fact that zoning here would be granted or anything like that, but we'd maybe even give it a not as significant fee as a lot of the other variance pursuits that are needed out there. Tommy.

So you said something about noncompliance. You send them a notice, they don't comply. You send them a fine.

Well, the fine gets established by the district judge, yeah.

Right, I understand. So I can see this escalating further, where is the township going to go in and take somebody's stuff if they don't comply, if they don't follow the district judge's order? Is that something that the district judge

I'll let the attorney speak on that one, yeah.

You've already had this incident at a lot larger scale in this township, nothing to do with chickens. and how it escalated to the police had to show up.

Where's that?

Right up the street.

I can speak to it. You know, so the typical process on a violation of the zoning ordinance would be to take them to the magistrate for fines, you know, on a few occasions. And if at that point they're still not complying, not cooperating, not communicating, then we could go directly to the Court of Common Pleas for an injunction. And that injunction could be raised up to, you know, having them removed from the property.

I can just from personal experience from an issue that you just pointed out, that was numerous years of litigation and that was also someone that was just not going to cooperate ever and so that's where it got to that particular point. I have confidence that most residents, especially if they really care about these chickens which

my experience with talking to these chicken owners that they really care about these chickens they probably will do anything in effort to ensure that their chickens do not get removed from from their property or from yeah and i'm sure there's people that don't have them now that might not want to comply so i have had them for 20 years why should i start doing complying now well that's what i'm saying yeah there's a great there's a gray area there that yeah yeah and and i mean i'm not against this at all right just saying that we're opening ourself up to have them do more enforcement possibly. I like to think of the good in all the people, but.

Right, you have to remember also if they have chickens, fine, but at the same time, they're technically not allowed to have the chicken. So even if they were to say, I've had these for 20 years, I'd be like, well, that's fantastic. You had them illegally all this time. How will we get you into a legal realm now? And we don't have to do any enforcement, you know?

uh so my thinking on this was as follows i mean i had reservations about this when i first heard about it um for all the reasons that people seem to have against it but as i heard i saw a lot of people's testimony at the board of supervisors and i'm sure we'll hear some today before we vote but uh jacob kind of stole my thunder a little bit here Under Section A, you require a permit for this, and a permit's good. A permit is a different kind of instrument from a license. A permit is a one-time thing. You get a permit to build something, and then you build it according to the permit and the code, you move on. A license is a very different instrument. a license has to be renewable a license requires regular inspections a license can be revoked so if someone's not complying and there are regular inspections and maybe it's more than once a year um i don't know maybe at first it's more than once a year but that can be revoked so i think the license is really the proper instrument here more so than than the permit um and i would not support this unless there were a license provision i don't know if it's a per chicken thing but maybe a per property thing to to have such a license there are a lot of activities you need a license for to to do in this township already i don't see why this should be any different in that regard

Now, Langhorne Borough does have a license. And again, it comes down to a volume, but that's, I mean, I- I'm sorry, who has a license? Langhorne Borough does have a licensing requirement.

They require a license for that, okay.

Yeah, so we can certainly look into how they do all that and the wording with that.

I would want to see the enforcement, you know, how it's enforced, how frequently inspected.

under what conditions can it be revoked that sort of thing yeah so so believe it or not maddie had a pretty in-depth conversation with langhorne borough and and and they because of their size they don't have too many licenses that they had to actually give out but it and um you know but i mean all the people that have chickens now don't have this license no what's the way well and langhorne borough

in our township.

Oh, no, no one has a license right now. No, I'm saying Langhorne Borough requires that and it's codified. So we could look into that and maybe duplicate similarities to that.

Yeah. The only other thing is in your section, what is section M as in Mary? under all your letters. Was that one that got cut out, or was that something else? Just mislabeled?

Correct. Oh, I'm sorry.

That was just, I probably had an M, removed it, and I just didn't re-letter it correctly.

So N will become M? That's correct, yes. But I'm very interested in hearing what the community has to say as well.

Yes, sir. Jim, I have a couple letters you brought me up here. Am I supposed to read these letters that came from emails?

No, they're just for your consideration. I think they're people that don't want it. They're what? They're people that don't want it. There's not many of them. I think there's probably two or three. Three. Three, yeah.

Well, one just says they want to reach out and talk to all the board members personally, and you kind of... Let them know how the procedure works on that one.

That's correct. But that was also someone that does not want him.

Didn't say whether it was for or against.

They're adamantly against. They wanted to bother you guys individually as well to tell you how much they're in. Got it. Yeah.

Okay. So then I'm gonna open up the public comment at this point, and we do have a list of people that signed up, so I'd like to go in that order first. Then we will allow anybody who didn't sign up to speak, and we're gonna go it that way. Now, I would just like to add that this is the first time we've ever had a discussion about chickens. Most of the time it's a discussion about traffic, and we get people that come up, Say the same thing about traffic one after another for another I'm hoping that we don't have that tonight where if you have something and someone else touches on it Then please not come back up and repeat the same Thing so we can sort of move forward and get everybody a chance to speak an equal amount of time So the first person Okay, is it Donald? Who lives on 701 Jefferson Ave Okay, I'm sorry, sir. Gerald, okay. All right, you have the floor, sir. Can you state your name and address and bring the mic as close to you as possible? Thank you.

My name is Gerald Napierkowski. I live on 701 Jefferson Avenue, Lancorn Gables, Lancorn PA, Lancorn Gables. I was at the previous meeting. I'm at this meeting. In terms of chickens, chickens are great. They provide so much for the community, both as a... kindness as you watch them grow from either an egg or a chick to a pullet to an adult to an older it teaches children how to do it the right way they do provide a lot for you they eat your scraps they don't care they're omnivores so don't eat any mice that you that you have on your property i can prove it They'll eat ticks, they'll eat any kind of bug or what have you. My property is totally enclosed at this point except for the front due to the fact that I did have chickens and my neighbor, one neighbor complained about me having chickens and I wound up coming before the board and being told to get rid of them or face the court. And so we had to let them go. I miss my chickens terribly ever since it happened, and it happened six or seven years ago. I would love to have chickens again. If they cost me, if I have to pay for them, I'm fine with it. I don't have a problem with it. I mean, my vet bills are going to be more than your license fee, believe me. The chickens never required a vet. My cat needs a vet. it brings so much kindness and which I said already, I know, but they can be an emotional support animal for when you're really going through really hard times. You just go out into the run. If your run is big enough, it's not a small run and hang out with your chickens and they'll come up to you. and they'll make you feel better because now you're taking care of somebody else and they'll be able to drain away your bad day and it turns into be a good day or you can deal with it or you can cry to them or what have you and they may not understand it but they'll still love you because you feed them treats. And hitting me with a fee for chickens, let's say for three, and then I decide to add four or five, depending upon how big my property is, which is 0.34 acres, is I'm fine with it. I'm fine to whatever you have to do. You wanna come out every week and check out my coop and check out my run, be my guest. I have no problem with it. It'll be annoying, but I have no problem with it. I welcome all that attention, so thank you.

Thank you, sir. Excuse me, thank you, sir. Rick Solomon.

Hi, my name's Rick Salmon, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. That's good enough. Actually, I came with a different train of thought, and after listening to all the precautions that have to be taken, that the township wants to take, you know, I have to, take a little side rail. My question is, it was a long list of things that they have to adhere to in these ordinances. It's not a simple thing. it's not gonna be a simple thing to enforce it either. I mean, are police officers gonna get involved in this? You can't even get a police officer for a dog.

It would be a code enforcement issue. And who does it? Who's gonna show up? We have a collection of staff that comprise of in the building and zoning department, the code enforcement. And so it would even maybe possibly, maybe it could be possibly one of the code enforcement officers. We also have an animal control officer who is very knowledgeable about these things and also has absolutely said that she would participate in addressing any issues as well. So yes, it could be an enforcement issue. You're not wrong on that. I can tell you that during my time here, yes, there has been some times when they've actually been clearly a nuisance and we had to address that. But most of our enforcement that has involved chickens is simply someone knowing that this person's not supposed to have chickens. They don't really necessarily are very good at describing or verbalizing the issues that they're experiencing because this person has chickens, they're just not supposed to have them. So one, I do think enforcement's actually gonna go down a bit because a lot of our enforcement issues are what I just described. But yes, there's bad actors in zoning for anything, whether it be chickens or not. And not unlike what we always do for cone enforcement, we just address it, especially once it's on our radars and we have identified the issue.

Well, it sounds good. I just worry about the execution. The other thing I considered is that You know, I'm an animal owner. I have a dog. And it didn't have the benefit of being around 250 years ago when there was just no ordinances about it. And as the first owners came in with dogs, then we realized, well, you know, we've got to license these. Then we've got to, you know, we've got to make sure that they're vaccinated. We've got to make sure that they're curbing. We have all those ordinances, and yet people still, don't abide by them. And it's hard to enforce it. I don't know if it's going to be any easier other than the fact that now you can go to a residence. But that's my number one concern. I think there's too much baggage that goes with this idea and puts too much emphasis on the enforcement and the administration for very little benefit. other than a support animal and a support chicken.

Thank you. Bill Sagan.

i'm bill sagan i live on 278 aspen avenue i had unfortunately we had a neighbor who had chickens and for a year and a half i'm an animal lover i would take my grandkids over to see them everybody enjoyed the chickens well a year and a half into it there was found rats living in the chicken coop many rats Well, and one of the things with those chicken coops, it provides safety for those chickens, also provides safety for the rats. And the fox can't get to them. The hawks can't get to the rats. So anyway, they live in there. we i talked to our neighbors and someone notified the township code enforcement came out told the neighbors they have to get rid of the chickens and they had their food stored in a metal container so the rats couldn't get in there all that stuff anyway when they got rid of those chickens they did that day they took them somewhere else where they live happily whatever but all those rats were now running through our neighborhood. And we all had to put out traps and put out the baits. So then after that, we had rats that were dying and laying in neighbors' yards where other animals are eating rats that have poison in them. I totally disagree. And like I said, I'm an animal lover. and I enjoyed the chickens and I took my grandkids to see them, but it's bad news. They created a big mess and it took us months to get rid of those rats. They ran all through the neighborhood because their food was shut off. They had no food, so then they're going through the neighborhood, they're in people's trash cans, it's a mess. And they gave us eggs. We ate eggs from there, but I'd buy a lot of eggs before I'd deal with having chickens and rats living next to us. I have videos of them if you want to see it. We're okay with the video.

Your word's good for us. Yeah, your word's good for us.

I'm just telling you, and like I said, we are animal lovers. We had pets and everything, but they really created a big mess for our neighborhood, and a lot of people ended up creating problems between the neighbors because of this. They really do create a mess.

Thank you.

All right.

Alyssa Fisher. Is that you? Well, we have no we have just got that you don't want to speak Alyssa. All right, so let me you'll get a chance ma'am. Chelsea and wrote Chelsea and is it rovian? Robin? Okay.

I actually wasn't planning to speak, but I just want to thank you for your time. I can confirm, because I actually learned this as well, a chicken can serve as an emotional support animal. I work for an ABA agency, Applied Behavior Analysis, which is essentially helping children on the autism spectrum. So one of our therapists actually does use the chicken and child's relationship to teach the child how to take care of something else. I've lived in close proximity to chickens in the past. I can say not currently, but I can say that as long as the owner does take care of the chickens, which again, we're putting trust in the owner and I understand concerns on both sides, I do like the idea of having a license or some sort of enforcement to make sure that the animals are in fact being cared for. So that's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Nicole Dindotto? Did I get that right? I'm no good with names. I'm sorry.

Very, very close. Di Donato.

Di Donato. And I'm half Italian, too. How did I not get that?

All right. So we have good dog owners and we have bad dog owners. We can all agree on that. So I did have chickens and my chickens were taken four years ago. The reason why my chickens were taken is because the people behind us, we had them for like four or five years. The reason why they called on us is because their dog broke our fence and almost bit our child. Okay. So nothing was ever enforced with that. So I just want to say having chickens goes both ways. There's good, there's bad. I got it. But it's also based upon the property owner. I think with the township, they've been out, they're doing street work on my work right now, my property. With that being said, it's an open door. Come inspect, look. Do that with dogs. Do that with the animals that people currently have to get permits for or your dog tags, okay? Chickens can be a good thing. For the behavior thing, my son did need the chickens. It was a behavior thing. He does have autism. With that being said, it was a huge deal for us. He still, when you bring up the word chicken, he'll cry because it meant a lot to him. So for me, it's not just because of the eggs, the companionship, it's to teach my children the respect of having an animal, taking care of it, being responsible. It's also the fact that if we wanted to have meat birds, we could have them. We know where our food's coming from. We know what it's been fed. It does eat scraps. It eats bugs in the backyard. It helps scratch. There's a lot more benefits to having a chicken than having a dog. So that's what I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you. Donna Boyle? You don't have to. We're not forcing you. That lady's dying to talk over there. So, I mean.

So I did have chickens before too and they were taken away. But I understand the issues that they're talking about, the bad things, but since we are talking about having a license and inspections, hopefully these things won't happen. People will be more aware and they'll be being watched. So, and I'm not saying that I even wanna have chickens again. I'm here to support people who do have them, and I agree with them as far as all the good things, and hopefully the bad things will be, you know, taken care of with having a license. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, ma'am, it's your time now, and you're on the phone. It's your spotlight time. Could you please state your name and address, please, because I don't have you on the list.

No problem. My name's Angeline Dougherty. I live at 1539 Old Lincoln Highway. Say that address again. 1539 Old Lincoln Highway. I too had chickens at one point and my neighbor called and I had to give them up as well. And I can assure you I would love to have my chickens back. But on Middletown Township's website, it says that you guys want to create a sustainable Middletown. And it states, Middletown Township strives to create an environmentally friendly future that improves the quality of life by promoting environmental sustainability to residents, business, and the community. Chickens do that. Everybody's already stated what they do do that are in a positive way. As far as for the sustainability and the problems with the rats, many of the restaurants in the area have, all over the township and all over the city, you'll see the rat traps out. And it's because they have dumpsters. And the dumpsters and people throwing trash and whatever else, their hamburger out the side of the window because they don't want it anymore, draws mice and rats. When PennDOT tore up the field next to my house, so that they could do their staging project, guess what I got? Rats and mice, because they came from the field. Nobody cared about that. When I had my chickens, I never had mice. When neighbors of mine had a dog, believe it or not, when the house, when the field got tore up, because their dog food was out, the mice got in their house and were eating the dog food. So be mindful about all those requirements because they're not the same requirements for dogs and cats. My neighbor's cat, I rescued it from my pool. at least a dozen times. I don't know why it keeps jumping in my pool, but I got to keep getting it out. Her cat's allowed to go wherever it gets to go. And also, you guys kind of did set a precedence before. It's not related to chickens, but when you change things because you want to comply to make life better for people and to cost less money, I was here months ago, maybe it was last year, where you guys granted a stormwater variance for residents of Levittown because their properties were small so that they could have a shed. And it wouldn't cost the township $500 every time, or it wouldn't cost the residents $500 every time they wanted to apply for it. Hopefully I got that right.

You're in the ballpark, I'll tell you that. I remember that.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, well, it's totally reasonable and it makes their life easier because they want a place to put their lawnmower. People just want to be able to have a nice egg, some good compost, and get rid of the ticks and the mosquitoes and all the crap in the back of their yard. So it hits all those markers. And, you know, why can't I have a chicken? It's, they're nice. You know, I deserve it. Yes, I do. And thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. I had more, but I forgot what it was.

Is there anybody else who didn't sign would like to speak? You saw, oh, it's another paper over there? Well, come on up, ma'am. You can come up. And then the gentleman behind you can come up. And then you can come up and then it'll be 10 o'clock.

Good evening, everybody. Jacqueline Williams. I live in Deepdale East, 59 Deepdale Drive East.

What is your address again?

59 Deepdale Drive East.

Deepdale East. Yeah.

So I did a very lengthy speech. I hope everyone got the chance to see it. I was terrified for the zoning. And I am a third generation Levittown homeowner. My grandmother was the original homeowner three doors down from mine when they used to keep their horses in their backyard because across the street was a big horse farm. You know, Has anyone on the board actually owned chickens? And I don't mean that to be derogatory, it's just like a general question. You have, okay, excellent, good. Yeah.

Oh, when growing up. Growing up. If you owned them now, it would be illegal.

Well, yeah, $500 a day.

Yeah. That was a trick question, by the way.

So I guess for me, you know, I actually have a degree in equine studies. I spent a lot of times in other areas than where I live spending time with farm animals because they weren't allowed here. But for me, you know, when I go out and I actively wanted to pursue what issues other people had with the chickens and I got a lot of, what do you mean you're not allowed to have chickens? Because I think in other areas, it's such a common practice that you're just allowed to have chickens. I mean, for instance, in Philadelphia, you're allowed to have chickens. In North Bucks County, you're allowed to have chickens. Isn't it weird that in the middle, in these suburbs, it's something that's completely prohibited? So... And then I remember Mr. Peter talking about, oh, people have had chickens for 20 years. They're not going to want to change what they're doing. And that's so curious to me that someone could have chickens for 20 years without it being a problem. But it comes here like it's just this big debilitating process. Just even listening to the rules, and listen, I'll follow whatever rules you want. I'll pay whatever licensing fee you want. I think at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I don't want my kids to get into drugs, and I firmly think that keeping them busy with other things that fulfill them and make them feel secure and make them feel like they have purpose is what keeps them out of drugs. So that's kind of what I'm here for. Now, talking about the rules, some of it, did you say we're not allowed to gift our eggs?

listen we are trying to keep this in a residential component so these requirements are about making sure that it it stays residential and it's not commercial okay i'm not going to be running around wondering if you traded eggs with your friend or something you're gonna dna test our next door neighbor's refrigerator but that that kind of that kind of requirement is in place in an effort to ensure that there's not does not become a commercial component for operating out of a residential property when it comes to eggs or chickens or raising that kind of thing.

Of course. And then I guess my other question would be, so we have very specific rules for an enclosed run, which I'm in favor of. If I have chickens, I would like them to be living like royalty, you know, and I want my neighbors to be able to come to a rat environment, dear Lord, where they can really enjoy them. I want it to be for everyone. But I just want to remind everybody, too, when we're talking about doing things for the safety, for the well-beings of the chickens, commercial chickens are kept on half a foot up to a foot. It is abusive what they do to commercial chickens. So those eggs that you're buying at the store, there is no way... in this township, I thoroughly believe that anyone could run an operation like that. So if we're doing things to protect the chickens, almost anything's better than what they have. I mean, these chickens don't even see daylight. They live in a box where they get force fed and poop out eggs, okay. And then I guess my other question is, so we have these very specific guidances for the enclosed run, which is great, but why do we have to have such strict land requirements if the coop itself is so specific?

it's consistent with what we found in other places uh look look i'm just going to be honest with you this is obviously something that is we're forging kind of a new path here right so we have to kind of tread a little lightly and and yeah the minimum lot size requirement is just something that's put into place yeah and then i think my last thing and then i'll go i think hold on

I was thinking, is there a way we could do like an eight-year license? That's about the maximum, over maximum amount of time that a chicken would run. I don't... I feel like everything that we're talking about is... A lot and I feel like it would be strain on the township and it is kind of like pay versus benefits here of having that license where you know if you have a parrot that screaming and annoying your neighbors and that's a noise complaint wouldn't that fall into an issue where you might have to get rid of the parrot regardless because it's a nuisance.

maybe you would have to ask the control officer. That's okay. So that's something. Yeah.

So there's that. And then, okay. And about the permits and things too, a lot of chicken care is self-regulating. And what I mean by that is if you build a run that is not predator-proof, your $30-plus chicken will no longer exist. Chickens are never going to hurt any residents, because they can't. They're not going to be able to hurt any residents. But if it's not predator-proof, there will be no chickens. If you don't lock up your food, It's not cheap. Chicken food is not cheap. I mean, I don't know what it is now, but we're probably looking at like, you know, $20 a bag or something. So if you have things coming in and eating all of your food, you're costing yourself a boatload of money. It's not in your best interest. So just to say all that. But I will say as far as the board voting, I would much rather have very, very strict rules and be able to get a couple hens. I think my property will be four. So thank you, everybody.

Thank you.

Okay, sir, you can take, you're up. Good evening, everybody. My name is Matthew Santel. I live at 48 Conifer Road. 48 what road?

Conifer.

And Cobalt Ridge. So clearly those that represent, or those that you represent, desire chickens very much so. Could you speak more into the mic, sir? Absolutely. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to the licensure structure. I think we can mirror dogs. There is an annual license and a lifetime license for the animal. um for inspections i do agree there needs to be inspections but i think it needs to be on on a condition so conditional inspections only so if neighbors are very willing to call on their neighbors and report them for infractions so i think we need to rely on that and not have to cause the township more money dispatching people out there going doing inspections posting notices all that kind of stuff it's just We already have a mechanism in place that's being used by neighbor reporting. Honest people keep people honest. Also, according to the online sources, to comfortably house four chickens, you need 16 square feet for your coop and 40 square feet for your run, which is... way less than some brought up before 7,500 square feet is a little much for keeping chickens. That is all. Thank you. Thank you.

Is there anybody else who would like to speak? You want to come up, ma'am? You can bring her with you. She looks like she's asleep.

My name is Rachel Fullen, and I'm at 423 West Richardson Avenue. I'm actually two doors outside of Langhorne Borough, so like where I can throw a baseball, I can have chickens, but in my own yard, I can't. And I realize that it has to do with zoning and townships, so I'm not going to argue that. I just think it's like a little bit interesting. I started off, I have four children, I'm a solo mom to four kids 13 and under. They mean everything to me and I put them first always. I would like to, in thinking of what they ingest, whether it's like food or media, I always keep that in mind. So we grow vegetables at the Heritage Farm in Langhorne Borough and I like to do it all organic. I'm always thinking of those things. I think in this society with farm-to-fork so prevalent, when my grandma was raising her children, I feel like everything was much more organic than it is today. So by having chickens, they not only get some of the benefits that we've already talked about, but it's just part of the thing of gardening and keeping things and learning where your food comes from. I did want to mention something because... i came two years ago i think i started reaching out and asking like what is the process to start this and i think it's really cool i have to say um i'm very surprised how welcome and opening and open everyone is to even listen to us because i think it's really cool that i've brought my children here and they've seen local government in action and how things can either change or get vetoed or not vetoed and just kind of how it all works. But when thinking about chickens, I forget the numbers of how many people were polled, but it's not going to be the same as dog owners or cat owners that everybody on your street is having chickens. So if what the percentage in Langhorne Borough is, if you took that, I don't think that all of a sudden there's going to be boatloads of people having chickens on every block. It would just be either people that already have chickens or people who've had them in the past and want to get them removed. So I don't think, I don't know what study could be done, but I don't think it would be like hundreds of thousands of chickens in Middletown all of a sudden. So I think everything else I wanted to say was kind of already said, but when we were speaking about rodents, I live on not a huge property on my street, but one of my neighbors had a carriage house and they wound up going through it and getting rid of stuff. I guess it was vacant and all of a sudden we had rats because he cleaned out the carriage house to make it livable. And then a neighbor had a wood pile that was really big and they moved the wood pile and we saw mice. So sometimes it just happens. And obviously in chicken keeping, you want to keep things clean and you won't have that happen. But there's neighbors who do things and make choices that make things annoying and an inconvenience, but I'm not here asking for ordinances to shut down people's rights to clean out their garage that here has things in it. So I just thought that was interesting because when I was hearing of these problems, I thought, wait, that's what happened when the carriage house clean out started. So I don't think it's just about chickens, rodents coming out, just like when we're clearing fields, all of a sudden we start seeing rodents. So I think there's so many positive benefits to chicken keeping. And my big point is I don't think that like 80% of Middletown is going to be begging to have chickens. I think it's going to be a minimal amount. So that is it. Thank you for listening.

Thank you.

Okay. Every public comment clear. All right. I'll give you one minute, sir. Go ahead.

You know who I am, where I live.

We know who you are.

I got starry-eyed the last time. What I did want to say is, as a chicken owner and a former chicken owner, how you approach your custodial responsibilities of chickens is what really defines how you take care of them. I never had any problems with rodents, never had any issues with rodents. I was very vigilant about it. My wife was very vigilant about it. She'd probably kill me. But it's like in terms of putting your food into metal cans, I also strapped it down with bungee cords at night to be on the safe side. The water was kept in the outside coop, the outside part of the coop. We didn't put it inside the coop because that just does not work well with them. And I never had any problems. Yes, my main chicken, the boss chicken, the boss hen, she did take out a mouse. But I don't really care about the occasional mouse or the occasional vole or the occasional mole. It's like I have now, let's see, opossums coming down the street. I have... foxes coming down the street. I have the cats that don't have tags that are checking out the neighborhood. And so far I haven't had any dogs, but we're getting all kinds of animals lately, especially with the foxes. And I'm cool with the foxes because I know they're just coming back into the area. As long as they get their thing and walk away by morning, I'm happy. What I'm trying to say is as responsible owners of any pet, It is my responsibility to take care of them to the best of my ability to keep my property in as pristine condition as possible. If it's a dog, you pick up after them. If it's a cat, you don't let the cat run. You know, if you're gonna have a cat, keep it inside. This way it keeps them out of getting either tick bites or having heart disease or heartworm or what have you. Think about it. So the same thing goes with chickens. Chickens are basically self-sustaining for the most part. The most you'll deal with maybe is bumble foot, which you can read up on.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to, did you raise your hand? You want to talk again? How important is it? Okay. I'll time you.

Donna Boyle, Parkland. So I just want to say, I live in a very small neighborhood, and I live next to a business that's got junk in it, and there's rats and mice running around over there. And I don't understand why you're worried about a couple chickens, but there's a business that's got a lot of bad stuff going on next door, and I heard that it's because they're grandfathered in.

Yeah, we wouldn't know what you're talking about. Okay, thank you. All right, so where we're at is I am in agreement with Pete, too, about this licensing thing. Now, that brings us to the point of Are we able to even make a vote on this until we read some language about a licensing type of situation?

How do I say this? The licensing component of it would not go into the zoning code. It's not a zoning provision, so to speak. It's just not something that zoning would deal with. The license component would be not unlike what we would have to do for how we're going to, you know, enact the permitting, what would the application look like, what is the process, what is the... And that wouldn't be anything in zoning then? No. All of that is like process oriented and also even in some cases a separate section of a different ordinance potentially, especially with the license and stuff like that. So, I mean, I'm not going to... speak out of turn but in my opinion we would draft a license based off the condition that you you're saying for your recommendation if that's where you're going we would definitely draft a license and figure out what that would mean during the whole process discussions that we would have post if this was actually approved and enacted into the zoning words

Okay, Pete, did you have two concerns or just the licensing?

Well, to me it's licensing, but the real meat of it is licensing with regular inspection requirements.

Right, yeah, so that, right, that would be part. That would have to be written into it. Yes, yeah, there would, yeah. So if you were so inclined to give a recommendation, it would be with the condition that there would be a licensing and a inspection, annual inspection process tied to whatever is ultimately approved and basically enacted and put forward for permitting and fees. Okay.

Jim, unfortunately, I can't find the paper that you left me for that one. I am very bad with paperwork up here. Okay, so we could do a recommendation and a vote on this tonight. Okay, at that point. I would like to say that you all made valid points on both sides of the fence as far as I'm concerned. I don't know about the rest of the board, with the public, this was mainly a public thing tonight, more than us making the decision, but the residents to and against actually made good points on both sides of the fence. Thinking about that, some of the good points that were, you know, that were made as far as, you know, there's rats that come from everywhere, different situations that you could have rats. You know, foxes, I have fox and possums and deer and snakes and I live in a residential neighborhood too. So with that, if there's no other questions, if the Board has no other questions, I'm gonna make a recommendation with the caveat, which I will call A, And Pete, how do you want to word this A, a requirement of licensing and inspections?

Yeah, just how do we enforce that, that that would be part of this measure? I understand you're saying it's typically not written into a zoning, the language of the zoning code, right? But how do we enforce that? In other words, I won't vote for this unless there is that.

I'm putting it in right now as item A. Okay. I'm putting it in as a requirement of licensing.

Pete, I'm not understanding your question. I'll be honest with you. You're the planning commission, so then you would say there needs to be a licensing requirement, but you would not get into the nuts and bolts and weeds of what that would be. You would have to have the confidence that we were going to make sure that it happens as part of the condition, that there would be a license and an inspection process, and we would draft what that would be and everything else as we move forward.

So what are you saying? What?

I'm saying that if you said there was a condition for licensing and inspections or some kind of annual thing, that's all that really needs to be said. It seems that you want to actually start.

So if I vote for that this evening, that will be part of this?

It'll be part of your recommendation. It'll be part of your recommendation. Now, again, you're a recommending body. I can't say that the board will be in support of that or not. They probably will be. I can't see them not being in support. Supervisors. Supervisors, I'm sorry. Yeah, board of supervisors, yeah.

Well, I would vote for it on that premise. that it says both licensing and inspection. Regular inspection.

I'm writing that in, Pete, as item A right here to read off. Regular inspection. If you're okay with this, a requirement of annual licensing and inspections. Sure.

whatever the term is, but yeah, that is right.

Did I get that right, Andrew? I mean, am I saying enough there?

No, you're saying enough. I think we understand the gist of it. Basically, this is an amendment to the zoning ordinance, so it would be permitting the use, but then separately and apart from the use, we would investigate and come up with a licensing and inspection scheme that would either be adopted by a separate ordinance or just in the procedures as a part of a resolution.

you okay with that yes okay then i'm going to make a recommendation to of up go ahead i'm sorry um i'm also concerned about the folks who currently do own chickens that i mentioned in my comments so any consideration among folks here about grace period we would leave it to jim and the team to determine uh what that grace period would be for folks who do currently own chickens that do not comply with any existing ordinances so that they have the time to comply.

So I- Catch 22 because they're not supposed to be owning chickens right now. Right, right.

There shouldn't be a penalty for them right now.

So what I would say is just based off everyday experience with zoning issues and that sort of thing and times when yes, all of a sudden something is now allowed and maybe someone was doing it while it was not allowed. One, there's absolutely gonna be some kind of further community outreach effort to inform people that chickens are allowed, but you now go through a permit and everything else. And then two, if we find out at a later time that once all these rules are put into place and the procedures are put into place, we just call them and say, hey, you gotta get a permit or you're now in violation. That's really all it comes down to. I'm comfortable with that, thank you, sir.

All right, no problem. So do you want me to add a requirement for that or like a grace period requirement or just will it be just resolved with Jim?

Okay.

It's built into the enforcement process. They would have a period of time to come into compliance. You know, they'd have at least the 30 days and then obviously while this ordinance is pending, there's not going to be, you know, action taken. Okay.

And the other thing you got to remember is even if we say yes today, does it mean the ordinance is tomorrow? It's gonna take a while for it to go through. Oh yeah, yeah. So word's gonna get out, it got approved tonight, show up for their supervisor's meetings when they have it on their agenda, and in between then and there, people are gonna be made aware of this. So it's not like we're gonna come up and say, tomorrow you have to have a license, or a permit, or whatever, or an inspection.

Right, or tomorrow you can go buy chickens. Go buy chickens. That can't happen, right. Well, you can buy them, but. You can buy them, but you can't have them in Middletown right now. Got it. Okay. So then I am gonna make a recommendation of approval for the proposed text changes to the Middletown Township zoning ordinance to allow the keeping and raising of chickens at properties in the RA1, RA2, RA3, R1 and R2 zoning districts. Recommendation is based on the May 28th, 2026 memorandum from Jim Ennis, Director of Building and Zoning. Recommendation is based on the condition of the comments provided by the Bucks County Planning Commission are addressed and also by item A, a requirement of an annual license and inspection be obtained by anyone interested in owning chickens. Pete, are you good with that? Okay. Motion's on the table to approve. Is there a second?

I'll second.

She's been quick. All night, all night she's been quicker than you. It's a second from Amber. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Amber, you have to go on Family Feud. All right, the next item of business is Review of zoning hearing. Jim, anything on the zoning hearing board that interests us?

No, I just wrote the advertisement for that. First off, there's not going to be a June. The first meeting in June is not happening. There's going to be a meeting that would be June 24th. They're all residential. If they did get approved, it would not go in for you guys for any kind of land development or subdivision approval.

Okay.

All right. Yeah, standard residential stuff of impervious coverage and that sort of thing. All right then, is there any other?

So I brought this up earlier with a couple of, so obviously everybody's talking about AI and data centers. Yes. And I know we don't have a lot of big places anymore. It was brought up for the one on Route 1. Is the township doing anything about?

There's actually going to be a policy discussion about data centers next week in front of the Board of Supervisors. That will probably eventually result in some kind of ordinance amendment to the zoning code.

I know we don't have a lot of places where they could put one because of the scale, but I imagine eventually they're going to go smaller.

Not that I'm an expert at this, but I'm hearing that, yes, since there's so much money involved in these things, they are trying to develop more technologies that are smaller and less extracting from natural resources. I don't know where they're at when it comes to that, so we have to treat them as they are today and assuming that they're going to be like that for a while.

So the township's definitely got something going on with that.

It's definitely on the township's mind and there's definitely some policy discussions that are going on.

The last place we need to do is put one at the mall. I don't know. I was going to say, that's a big enough section.

You know what, Tom? I don't think it is. If you saw the data centers over in Falls. I know you're building a mega one. The mall isn't big enough. This place is huge over there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's a good idea. Is there any other business that needs to be brought forward to the board?

Then I'm gonna ask for a motion to adjourn.

Jacob?

Motion to adjourn.

And family, Joe will second. All in favor? Aye. Meeting is adjourned.