Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

Be good, be good since county has Johnson grass ordinance if the county would set a good example for other people by following their own ordinance. So thank you for your time.

Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, I'll close public comments. Moving down the list, item three, constitutional officers, treasurer's report only, commissioner's report only, new sheriff's office, Sheriff Mickey Sampson.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, board members. Been in conversation. with some of you over the last couple of weeks as it pertains to some things that I talked about in the past a couple of months ago, um, as far as the courthouse. Um, and today I would like to request another full time deputy to be at the courthouse. And if you allow me a little bit, um, and 20,019, the general district clerk's office, they changed their schedule. Um, juvenile domestic relations court, uh, they've added, uh, dates as well to include, circuit court. Um, we've currently staffed the courthouse, um, with two full time persons. One of those persons we've taken off the road. We've actually moved somebody off the road and put them in the courthouse. We've done that. I made that decision as well as actually a previous sheriff as well. Had some discussion on that. Um, it is a constitutional obligation of ours to do that, uh, that in the civil process. Uh, so we staffed that again with two full time people, again, one coming off the road and for now for part time persons, two of those part time persons can only get so many hours in the month, uh, due to their retirement. Uh, and I believe social security, And one of those four persons is really a full-time civil process server. They are out four, sometimes five days a week, averaging anywhere from 32 to 40 hours a week doing nothing but serving civil papers, which does take over, does alleviate some of the responsibilities of just the deputies on the road where they can focus more on enforcement. But as you go down and start looking at the actual days of court, General District holds somewhere around 48. That's with no additional dates being added. The JDR runs somewhere between 36 to 38, scheduled, again, with nothing else added. The schedules for these courts change during the year as the judge sees fit. If he needs to add days or take away days. And then we also have circuit court date, which is the first and third Wednesday. And that's to include term day, which is today. It's every other Tuesday. It's the first Tuesday of every even month is when they had that. So there's somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 scheduled dates just for circuit court. And again, that's not including any trials or whatever else the judge may have. add to the schedule. If you just took a regular day for a general district court day, or any court day for that matter, if you just had one court going, we have to have somebody in the control room. That control room, they monitor the happenings inside of the courtroom itself to include in the lockup. So if we have a prisoner in the back, That person is monitoring that. If something were to happen, they could get on a radio and let the other persons know. So that's one person, and that's their responsibility. The second person I'll talk about is the person that sits at the metal detector, as well as the x-ray machine. Check all the persons coming in. We do that with one person. They have to run them through the metal detector. They have to check baggage through the x-ray machine, whatever they may have. And recently, I hate to use the term because it seems to be pretty common as of late, but another unfunded mandate by some legislation that came down. It was a House bill, I believe, that came down where they've allowed cell phones in the courtroom. With that, and I'm paraphrasing here, with that they've allowed the circuit court judges to establish guidelines for that. Our judge decided to, okay, we're going to let them in, but they have to keep them in a Faraday bag or a yonder bag. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that. I'm, I'm kind of just getting spun up on it myself. Um, essentially what happens is if someone comes in, they have their phone with them. We no longer tell them to take it back to the car. We have to supply them with one of these bags. They put it in the bag and we have to lock it. It has to be locked. So you can't use the phone in the courtroom. Don't ask me, that doesn't make any sense either. If you're not gonna allow them to use it, but it could be for evidentiary purposes, maybe if the person had some pictures or whatever on their phone, they would have it in there. That can only be unlocked by us, so I'm not exactly sure how many keys that we do have. I think that there was four, there was one, where you're going to be coming in to the courtroom. The bailiff that's in the courtroom will have one and then they'll have to be one when you leave. So anytime that somebody needs to access that phone, whether it's in the courtroom or when they leave, we have to have a deputy now to unlock that because we have the key. There's a special magnetic thing that they do. Of course it's on YouTube. I think there's a 12 year old that shows you how to open it up. Um, so, but anyway, we have the key for it. So that's going to take additional manpower. You have to ask, do you have your phone? That's, that's manpower. That's going to be seconds. That's going to be time. And on a day like today, uh, where you have a term that you have multiple people coming through, not to mention now we're going to, that's only the two people that I've talked about up to this point. Now we're going to have to have somebody, And we're going to have to figure this out. How are we going to gather these bags at $50 apiece so they don't walk out in somebody's purse or in somebody's back pocket? The third person I'll talk about is the chief bailiff. He is actually in the courtroom. We put one person in there. One. And the last person would be, if there was a prisoner, we would have to have somebody in the lockup. So that's four people at a bare minimum. Bare minimum just to function. I would give you an example. There have been times where there's been two courts going. We do not have enough people for that. As of today, we had road deputies that also had to come in, some on their day off, and substitute, and we had some people that were off. So we had road deputies in there a day, again, backfilling for our courtroom personnel. With that person coming off the road, we've put a little bit more stress on our on our road units to accommodate their day-to-day things that they have to do and their patrols and whatnot. That being said, that's a very small part of what our manpower goes towards. Anything, we have two campgrounds. I'm not telling you anything you guys don't know, ladies don't know. I've been up here before and I've kind of told you this or mentioned it, that we have to staff the campgrounds. They request a deputy for the campgrounds. You name the call and we've answered these campgrounds. The calls for service are continuing to go up into the campgrounds. I personally don't like just having one person At these campgrounds, you take Bethpage, you can have 5,000 people in there and one deputy. It's not a good number. That's not good numbers for us. But we have to have one at Bethpage, one at Grays Point. We've run everything from possible attempted murder to drug charges to domestics to alcohol stuff. I mean, you name it. We answer the calls. And that's just ours. That's not EMS calls as far as that goes as well. And that's just the campgrounds. Any of these other events that we have to do, the Fourth of July, the 5K, any of these other special events that we are requesting, I mean, we have to have people there, the Crab Feast. We're stretched really, really thin. The person that actually fills in or that we've moved over to the courthouse is also coming back out in the evenings and trying to pick up some of this other stuff, whether he's covering the road or he's doing an ECO, emergency custody order, where we have a mental patient where it falls on law enforcement. As everything goes, if you don't know what to do, just let law enforcement handle it. It seems that that's the standard. So, uh, again, this is not a request that's based on something that's going to happen in the future. This is kind of now that we're feeling, we're feeling the strain. We're spread very, very thin. And we have a tremendous bunch of people that we have there now. It's uh, it's been, it's been really nice to watch people come around and the excitement and the morale come up within the department. So, um, again, I am requesting that one deputy. so we can put that back on the road and leave our person over there to actually run the courts.

Questions? I just have one. I know that in my former department, we had a lot of guys that would retire, and they would come in and they were the bailiffs. They'd come in and work in the court. And I was wondering if that's a possibility here. It would be somebody who obviously wouldn't be getting the benefits and that sort of thing. Is that something that could be done as well, or have you looked into that? We're doing it now.

We have a former deputy who's in there now. Again, we had some people from the jail that were filling in as well. They phased out. Some people have taken some different jobs, and we're actively looking for some more part-timers as well. That being said, if you kind of pay attention to that, we're pushing that line item as it stands on the part-time for that courthouse as well because we just have to have people. There's really no other way around it. We're trying to backfill with full-time people so we're not getting too much into the part-time money. But we do have some people that have applied for this part-time.

Those bags you referenced, you might have to have maybe 50 or 75 on hand? 80.

We started out with 80.

So you're looking at 80 people show up?

Yes, sir. An additional 30 seconds per person that may have a that may have a cell phone with that deputy have stopped the process of people coming through the courtroom. He now has to stop that process, get a bag, have that person put it in there, and then if that person leaves, we also have to recover that bag. It's just time.

So you're talking about 40 minutes to get them into the courthouse, 40 minutes to get them out just because of this bag? That's correct.

Thereabouts, yes, sir.

I mean, yeah, we're talking roughly. And then if they have to come out in the middle of court or something, make a phone call.

Or if they are standing up in the court and they have their... They're yonder bag, and they need to get into it. We have to stop court proceedings. The bailiff, the only bailiff in there, has to come over there, open the bag for them so they can access, and then they have to close that bag. It's just another step. It's just tedious and time-consuming.

So every day in court, you've potentially lost two to three man hours. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Thank you.

So you're saying that everybody that comes in the courtroom have a phone. You've got to put it in their bag. So how you, it's no, nothing provided that say you need to not to bring your phone and what's the deal?

We're trying not to take those signs down. Please don't, we might put please up there in front of us.

But regardless, you're saying they can walk in their courtroom now regardless of what?

That's correct.

And you've got to protect, and you say you've got a law come down from Richmond to say that?

Yes, sir. The new state code, yes, sir. And then we have a bill that was recently added that was put in by the circuit court judge and how he plans on implementing that starting September 1.

So everybody that comes in the courtroom can have a cell phone And you need to put it in a bag. That's correct. Then you got to get it from them. I mean, you know, it's a little strange. Watches. Are we permitted, provided by law enforcement? to say, hey, you're not going to bring your laptops in today. I mean, it got to be, it sounds strange. It really sounds strange to me that somebody would make a law saying everybody that comes in the courtroom can bring a laptop or your cell phone into the courtroom. Now, our responsibility is to put them in a bag. I got you there. But the part that is real strange to me is that any lawmaker or any body that we elect that will agree to something like that is very strange. Yes, sir. It's very strange. I agree with you, Mr. Williams.

I assume that probably this would also apply to the district court, wouldn't it? I mean, because you don't know where they're going to go once you get through the door.

Yes, the courthouse as a whole. That's correct. JDR, general district and circuit court. And yes, Commonwealth Attorney's Office. Anybody that comes in, if you're just going up to the circuit court or you need to go to the clerk's office.

You're implementing the bags now.

We have the bags now, and per the code, the same code, it was up to the sheriff's office to provide training and all the other stuff for that. But, yes, we plan on implementing that with the judge's order by September 1. We may try to start a little early to work some bugs out or some, I don't know, maybe just start a week or two early if we can.

Were any funds provided to you to help with purchase of the bags? No, sir.

Yeah, I have a question, too. Lock-up. I know you can lock your phone up. Is there any situation where you could have more lock-up and encourage them if you're not going to use it in the court to lock them up? That kind of alleviates the bag because I went in the other day and, you know, rushing in, I just went up to the four records. And I have my phone, and what they do, as you know, I'm just telling people that don't know, they give you a key, you lock it up right there, and then when you go in, you take care of your business, you come back out. And if you want your phone, you better put the key back and give it back to them. That's a process, but what I'm just saying, is there any way of helping to alleviate so many begging people, you know, putting bags in and having more lockup and encourage them, the guy that checks you in, hey. If you're not using it in the court, I appreciate if you lock it up. I mean, it's just a thought. You know, I know it's just a thought that ran through my mind.

That was actually one of the options that they had talked about, about having that lock, just having a lockbox. But then the person's in the courtroom and they need to come out and they need to get their phone for something in the courthouse. It would be another step. I think the Faraday bags are probably the, if you just streamline the remedy to the problem, it would be the bags. It would be the best. I don't even know where we'd put a locker, some of those lockers like that. It's a little bit tight there in the foyer coming into the courthouse. And then it's something else we need to be responsible for as well. But, yeah, I mean, it would make sense to do that as well.

Well, September 1 deadline, not much time there.

No, sir. No, sir.

So what is the flavor of the board? Do you want to noodle on it some more or do you want to empower the sheriff to fill one spot? A motion would be in order then.

I was just going to, you may want to ask Ms. Riccardi about the financial side of that. Like, just a thought, sorry.

In fact, it's interesting you were going to say that. Based on my estimates, the estimated cost for a full year for a deputy is about $78,000, give or take. And that doesn't include uniform, weapon, camera, or... CERT training. So that would probably be another $5,000. So every year, let's estimate that cost would be about $83,000. Is that about right? I didn't include a vehicle because I don't think that position would need a vehicle. Am I correct?

If it's a full-time position, we try to get our people to do quite a bit of stuff. I mean, not necessarily, not necessarily. Yeah, because they'll do transports for the jails.

So I did not even include the price of a vehicle in that.

So would this be something that we would have to, since it's an increase in our budget, would we have to have a hearing?

You need an appropriation. To bill it? That's why I was asking the question. I think, I don't know, I don't know because I don't know where the monies would, Mr. Carty, where would the monies come from?

Right, at some point, if, again, he might be able to start this because at the first of the year, he's got, you know, everybody's fat with money, but you're going to have to pay for it throughout the year so you will run out of money. At some point, we would have to appropriate approximately this $80,000, which would be an appropriation fund, excuse me, from fund balance as usual. Yeah, that would be correct. We'd have to appropriate from fund balance to fund this additional position.

Female Speaker 1 But I don't think it triggers the 1 percent for a public hearing, right? Female Speaker 2 Oh, no. Female Speaker 1 Okay, I didn't think so, yes.

Female Speaker 2 The bags, it's interesting you would say that. I gave him about the same advice on that. He's got operating supply money. We all do. For example, the facilities and grounds, we've got operating monies. When you have something that pops up, that's what it's, it's really not there for, it's there for just their everyday bullets, weapons, ammo, whatever. It's not made for this one time, was it $10,000? About that, for those bags? A little over $8,000. So while their operating budget wasn't made for that little $8,000, they might be able to absorb it because they've got a little bit of money for backpacks, belts, whatever it is that they got through the year. So if not, they'll come back and ask for more. I gave them that direction. I said, let's get them now and figure out the rest of the budget as year goes on. So that's a great question. We did discuss that.

The only comment that I got, it seemed like, you know, now years ago, I used to do more with less. Since that time, everybody's been doing asking for more. I don't know no organization that revamped or how to do things or anything else. So we keep adding on. We get a mandate and what happens or whatever to come from the state. Instead of we do anything that, and Mickey here said how you was reworking and all this, but everybody comes after this county for taxes, no help. And I'm just wondering, about how we can't keep asking the taxpayers, the elderly and all of them to come, you pay more because this is mandated and we're not doing any type of reconstruction of what we got. I'm not going after what you're saying. I'm saying every organization they got from janitorial service or everything else, if we don't start looking at something a little different and we just keep adding salaries which costs money and it runs the budget up and We can pay it. We're going to be like everybody else. We're going to be like New Jersey. You know, you're paying your house taxes, you're going to go crazy. So I understand the mandate, and it says September 1, and there's nothing we can do about it. You got the men, we got to buy the bags, right? Yes, sir. Okay.

I don't see it. We're not talking about needing a car and stuff or anything. We're just talking about a person's salary. We'll be fine with vehicles for now. Okay. Thank you.

So to clarify, at this time, would we be requesting an appropriation to fund this position? That's what would make it the cleanest, and then I wouldn't have to come back for a secondary appropriation, if you chose.

Well, I think, as you know, our job is health, safety, and public welfare. And when you do that, you think about get another person on board, then you have to have It alleviates pressure in the whole department, as I'm saying. You know, you got another man here. Now you don't have to be searching for part-time all the time. But then you can use the part-time. You may need a man somewhere else. So you just think about how the structure of the sheriff's department runs. And they're kind of short. And any weekend with these campgrounds down here, it's busy. And this is our job. Think about it. And anything can happen at any time. Just think about that. Anything can happen at any time. And I want the county to be safe enough to handle their business, put it that way. You can make the motion. I said my piece. I'm going to let you take it.

I believe because this is already one quarter through the year, we can probably take the recommended $80,000 and drop that down to $53,000 because you're not going to pay for it for the full year, knowing that it will go up next year. So if you only wanted to partially fund it this year, that's another option at $54,000. Okay.

Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve of this one more position for the Sheriff's Office to cover these incidentals. They have been. In the past, the Sheriff's Office has worked with us to, when they were getting the body cams, to get a clerk that was already doing other duties to be able to do it. They've done everything they can, I think, to kind of keep the personnel costs down, and I think in this case it's reasonable, so I move that we do this.

Second.

Any further discussion? Roll call on the motion.

Mr. Crittenden?

Yes.

Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Williams? Yes. Mr. Bill Harris? Yes. Mr. Don Harris?

Yes. Motion's approved. Thanks, sir. Is there anything else you all would like to know about?

No. Thank you. Thank you very much. You've told us quite enough. All right. Commonwealth's attorney, Mike Hurd.

Good afternoon. So I think there have been some misunderstandings because I'm in a complicated profession and it appeared that some of the board members were thinking the general assembly was saying that an assistant columnist attorney is needed just to look at body worn camera footage. And that's not it. That's not correct. Um, extra work is required more than just looking at footage. It's also the discovery requirements, ethical requirements and the work, the body worn camera footage is on the prosecutor handling the case. And it's recognized that causes extra work in the Commonwealth's Attorney. It's the Commonwealth's Attorney that has to decide how that extra work is to be handled by the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, not a Board of Supervisors. So when a locality implements the body-worn cameras, the decision on how to staff the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office is on the Commonwealth's Attorney to decide how best to operate that office. And the needs of individual offices are different. space available, local workforce, types of cases, work required, whether misdemeanors are prosecuted, and determine the impact of the body-worn cameras. We have to look at more than just the extra work on the body-worn cameras because of that. But what is the office doing before that? What is our workload before that? And I look at the needs of the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office in order to best serve the public and best do the job required. This board has asked about paralegal, and I think I may have not given you good examples, such as a paralegal looks at something and says, oh, guy confessed, not recognizing the guy was handcuffed and he's being searched after. He's been arrested, he's been handcuffed, and he's asked about certain questions and things, and it's inadmissible. I just watched body-worn camera footage, I believe it was within the past two weeks, and there was a teeny tiny little report, not actually called a report, it's in the call for service report, and it lists a teeny bit of information and completely misses The defense of what the defendant and his witness are saying. Completely missed it. Completely missed the whole legal argument that would be presented at court. If we go to court, because this is a case of the deputies just said, oh, you can go to magistrate if you want to. So then I'm called by the victim. He wants to know should he do that or not. That means I had to look at the footage. And what I saw and what was on the report was vastly different. We can't trust a paralegal with stuff like that. Even the deputy didn't catch on to a lot of that. And then you've got the ethical requirements I've talked about before. And when it comes to whether or not to have a part-time person, I put together for you 12 points, which I hope you read. 12 points in detail where I analyze that as to how it could work best or not work for Middlesex County. And I can summarize it again if needed if someone wants to go through that. But let's look at our current workload. Three years ago, I warned that the situation was untenable and that we desperately needed help, and the office met state staffing guidelines for another CA, but I was concerned they wouldn't go put it in the budget. I asked you for help. You budgeted it, but then you didn't have to spend it because the state came up with the money. So I advertised for the position at the mandatory minimum. It became obvious we couldn't We couldn't hire anybody for that. And you came forward and recognized the need and came up with the supplement so we could have somebody. And so now here we are about three years later. And I had thought, honestly, with an extra person that could be handled management, you know, pretty well, but, and for a while it was, but now we're at a different standpoint than what we were before. Now we're at, there's even more discovery roles have been even expanded to general district court now. more procedures that we have to do, more types of cases of sealing statutes, et cetera, other stuff is coming on. Oh, you hired someone to handle sealing statutes in circuit court, but we don't have anything like that. We still just expected just to do it. And so with all this extra stuff we have to do, now body-worn camera footage is added. And let me tell you about July, just for me. I had the first two days off for vacation. I worked the holiday of July 3rd. I was off on July 4th. And then I worked 21 days straight because of what we have to do now. Not just body-worn cameras, but everything else. 21 days straight. Nights, weekends. Comes to 250 hours a day, 250 hours in July. Now, the business hours were 184, which means I worked 66 hours over for the month, which, if you want to do the math, that's an extra week and a half. I can't continue to do that.

Can't.

Thank you. Thanks. Maybe I ought to skip the part about what we learned at training recently. I'll say some of the things I had to cut out included a training session because you can't do everything. A two-day training I skipped out on because I had to meet with an 11-year-old girl who attempted suicide because she was so scared of testifying in front of a jury. But we got through that. So one of the things we learned was People can't do the job that we do for a lot of different reasons. So another thing I learned at the conference was more aware of the inability of offices to find new prosecutors. So one assistant county hall's attorney told me he resides in a county that doesn't pay supplements. He drives an hour to get to where he goes for higher pay. I know another assistant county hall's attorney in that same locality that doesn't pay supplements. He travels to a nearby city. So at the VACA meeting, Virginia Association of County Hall's Attorneys meeting, I heard something that was surprising to me. Because for years, VACA has advocated for more prosecutors' positions because we don't have enough. Offices are overworked. It's a change now. What they discussed at the meeting was changing strategy because no one's filling these open spots. So the strategy to try to convince the General Assembly in the next session is for higher pay. Because there's no use in trying to get the more spots when we just can't fill them. And plus, many lawyers don't want to go through what we go through as their preferred career choice. A panel discussion on Saturday's conference included about the trauma we're exposed to, vicarious trauma, constant adversarial experiences, the chronic stress of the job, deeply disturbing things we handle, how it disrupts cognition, impairs memory, concentration, causes irritability, which Ms. Lewis experienced for me recently, and other problems. And we can only take so much, but it was stress, but we help people in a way that no one else can help. So there's a change of strategy that the prosecutors realize we have to go through. So the current minimum salary for a full-time person is $80,725. It's gone up, as I told you before. It needs to be higher to attract someone. Now, I previously suggested about $85,000 back when the salary was $77,000, but now that needs to go up. I think it should go around $87,000 to $90,000. But I would say this, if you only budget the minimum, and I'm ending here, but if you only budget the minimum, that is basically equal to not funding the position in the way it can be filled. I mean, to be honest, we've got to realize that fact. Counties can't not fill the job with only the minimum. That's not meeting the need, the need to be done right. It's a priority of public safety. Otherwise, I can't continue to do the same thing as we've had. The extra work and not hiring the extra person, we have to cease more trainings, and what little I do now. Do less contacting of victims, witnesses, less contact with law enforcement. I mean, officers have had me say sometimes, I can't talk to you right now. That happens. Less interaction with the public, elimination of the type of cases we do. I mean, you've heard from the sheriff's office of how more and more cases happen, but no one seems to think about the prosecutor that's got to do the work. And now we have to look at the body-worn camera footage, the hours of that, and frankly, I'll admit, I'm doing other things than I'm doing it. If the officer's going to go and get his business card, you know, I'm not watching that time. I'm also doing other stuff on the computer and looking at e-mails, et cetera, that I have to do. So I've strived to not have happen in Middlesex what happens to a lot of places where mistakes are made, there's a less than adequate job because of underfunding and the inability to get the help. So I'm asking you to share with me the type of effort I'm trying to do for the people of Middlesex. Thank you. All right, like I said, I've just been swamped lately.

Mr. Chairman, can I ask one clarification point, please? I'm sorry, Mr. Crittenden.

Yes. Okay.

Mr. Hurd, what was the, I've been trying to find the starting salary. I know the comp board was updating their numbers. Do you have the newest number?

$80,725. $80,725.

Okay, and that's, okay, thank you. Sorry for that. I just, I missed the number. Thank you.

$80,705, right? $25,000.

All right, Mr. Chairman, I feel the board's been very fair to our Commonwealth attorney. A year or so ago, Mr. Hurd asked for more help handling the increased caseload. I supported it. This board supported it. It took a chance on whether the state funding, that was before we knew it was going to be funded. But we went out on a limb and said, okay, we realize you need that. And whether the state funding would be there or not, we were going to pay for it. And as it is right now, we're still paying for part of that. We wanted you to get a good assistant, which you did. Now we're asked to provide a full funding for another assistant Commonwealth attorney. Now let me correct that. Mr. Hurd has demanded that we fund one. We asked him to explore different options, a paralegal, part-time attorney, whatever. Other area counties have worked with their boards to find such solutions. Some have worked, some lower cost alternatives seem to be working. Some have found that they didn't work and they went back to their board, but at least they tried. Not Mr. Hurd. Now he's taking this to court if we don't comply. He even suggested that our board could be charged criminally with malfeasance in office trying to be responsible with our constituents' tax money And according to our county attorney, he has the law on his side. So be it. Accordingly, I will vote to approve this mandated position. $80,725 plus benefits and not one cent more.

Is that a motion, Mr. Crittenden? No. Okay. That's why I was asking for clarification, sorry.

Mr. Hurd, the board has demonstrated time and time again that it supports law enforcement and the administration of justice. We approve body cameras. We believe in transparency and accountability. We previously funded a second commonwealth attorney And when you came back seeking additional resources, we didn't dismiss your concerns. We asked you to work with us. We asked whether a paralegal, a part-time attorney, or another solution could accomplish the same objective while respecting the taxpayers who fund this government. Instead of collaboration, we were met with ultimatums. Instead of discussion, we were lectured. Instead of compromise, you made it clear that your way was the only acceptable way. And now you've chosen to sue the citizens of Middlesex County through their elected board that you were asked to work with. No one on this board questions the importance of your office. This board does not cheap out on justice. That is why we supplemented your office by $49,000 approximately with the local taxpayers' monies. What questioned is, is the refusal to engage in good faith problem solving every department head in this county is expected to work collaboratively, consider alternatives, and recognize that every dollar we spend belongs to the taxpayers. We expected the same from our Commonwealth attorney, and it is disappointing that we were not given, did not receive that. Leadership is not measured by how quickly you file a lawsuit. It is measured by your willingness to solve problems before you do. The board was willing to negotiate, you were not.

Anything else? Oh yeah, you're gonna have to take a vote.

Not quite yet.

We won't be voting on anything today.

You know, I would think if history repeats itself in this day and time, if we're in the working sector, we don't see with the tools and stuff we have to solve problems, it don't get longer. Now, Mr. Herb, I was just going to give one example. You stood right there maybe about three or four months ago and you was on a case and you were saying that I don't know what I would do without cameras. This one particular one had video. And you said immediately when I got the video, we solved the case right away. And that was your words. Now, I understand what the state is saying. It's saying that we are, as taxpayers of Milsis County, as the LLA once again, or whatever it is, we don't have a choice. Now, they're making it our fault on the communication factor because I would think that your attorney and your sheriff's office should be working together 100%. Now, from my understanding, they write up a case, you know, they take time writing up. Somebody got to be doing less work for you to be doing more. And that's what I'm seeing. Because you've got better tools. Body cameras have better tools. I mean, it shows more. And I'm not trying to say a picture or video on your camera. Somebody... got to be doing less work. Basically everywhere in the sector, in the private sector, and they spend money. They don't spend money to hire more people. They spend money on equipment to do less. Now we're giving body cams, and we're saying instead of the body cams, then all of a sudden we say we need more over here, more over there. I can tell you what I think. You know, we don't have a choice. We don't have a choice to tell people like me that are elderly, that have been in Middlesex County all our life, or that somebody want to take us to court just because we're making things better, and we think that it costs us more work. When if you're in any profession, I got to talk to people that's on the job, it's real, all right? If all I done was open the door every day, I would be a whole lot better at opening that door or putting that door up. So I don't know if I'm saying it right. Now, you took a lawyer. Your lawyer's been in service for a long time. He got a case. So what we're saying, it's going to take you forever to be good at what you got because of the little small points. So now I need help so I can lay back and monitor the situation. And if all of us are honest with ourselves, we got to stop, keep asking for more and think about the process of the system, how it works before it get to you. Because we've been hearing this, you know, off and on. Now you as a lawyer, I'm just a common Joe, most of us are. So you come to us in lawyer terms and I'm going to come to you in simple terms. If you're based on your history, based on history, man, you're not going to be perfect. So all we're asking is that a chance to make the system work. And I think you can do that. I really think. I really think that if we take the process and make it work, it'll be better for everybody. Instead of just putting money on top of money, on top of money. I think somebody said we give them higher wages. You know, bad is good. Bad is bad. If you can hire somebody, you can pay them all they want sooner or later, they're not going to be worth nothing. So the idea, if you're growing in the process, and I feel you're growing the system, I think it's about a system between you all and the sheriff. You all in the sheriff's office. We can talk here to night and day. And I'm not going to get on the law enforcement side. I'm just going to stay on the common sense side. It's a process. It's a system from the person in the house that got the body cams that goes there and look at that video and writes it up, then hand it over to you. And the only thing I'm telling you is that some deputies that I have talked to, say they write it up and they look over it, then you decide, you know, the pros and cons of whatever it is. And you decide what case you want to do and what you don't want to do. So, hey, man, if we ain't got a choice to give you what you ask for, we just got to give you what you ask for and let the ship sail. But all I'm saying is that. You mean sink? No, I'm just saying that everybody should be working together as a system. That's what I'm saying. I'm not telling you how you do your job. I'm saying from the child that got beat in the house, the deputy that went there and you end up in the prosecuting office, You all got to work together, and we can get all we want, or we can't buy that. We got to have it right here. Okay? So if you ask me, just like Randy, I call him Randy. I mean, you know, Randy. He's saying, man, this is what you want? I don't have a problem because we don't have no choice, but you tied my hands. Nobody ties my hands to tell me how to vote. But, you know.

The law is the law, Mr. Williams.

Oh, Lord, man, don't you tell me nothing but the law, right? We're going to leave that one alone. You don't know who you're looking at. All right, don't you sit there in this courtroom and tell me about the law. We're going to leave that alone. I don't even want to talk about it. So we can go on to the next one. I don't want to talk about it.

Mike, I would just like to say something before we... We need to make a decision, though, regardless. I see you up here getting upset, and we all got to work together. And what's best for Middlesex County? That's number one you got to think about. What's best for Middlesex County? This whole scenario shouldn't have happened how it happened. I'm going to let you know that. And the law is the law. We understand that. But I don't want to delay the opportunity of us using the body cams and all that stuff because it's been going on too long anyway. And by getting mad, don't help anybody. Let it go. Let's get this thing going on. We need to make a motion.

I think a motion... would be pertinent after the, potentially after the closed session.

Okay, right, right. I agree with that, but we need to make a motion and get this out the way. I don't see belaving it because the law is the law. Think about it. And we can drag it on all we want to, but the law is the law.

Thank you, Mr. Hurd. Agency and staff reports, item number four, VDOT, Lee McKnight. He's not in here. Pay, it's a report only of the progress on the road scenario. School matters, not presented. EDA marketing, report only. Social services, report only. Library, carry... Those that can't.

Yeah, that's right here.

OK. All right.

so good afternoon hopefully i can give you something a little bit more lighthearted first of all i did want to pass out so this is just part of our harvest just from today at the urbana library we have these straw bale gardens and we have a bumper crop of tomatoes so please i'll pass them around please help yourselves we have some extra plastic bags, so.

I think we're going to have to report that on our conflict sheet, Carrie. What do you think the value is on those tomatoes there? Thank you.

But yes, we have plenty more. We'll have more tomorrow, more the day after that, everything. So, but I did want to say that those That garden has been a real draw for the kids. We have a few different varieties of tomatoes. We have a few different varieties of peppers, bell peppers and jalapenos. We have at least three watermelons growing there and at least three pumpkins, like big carving-sized pumpkins. So anyway, it's going to be interesting come this fall. So really today, I just wanted to give you kind of a snapshot of what the library is. I'm not asking for money. I'm not complaining. I just wanted to give you a taste of what we do every day, since I don't see too many of you come by the libraries too often. But anyway. So as you already know, We are comprised of two branches, one in Deltaville, one in Urbana. The one in Deltaville is actually a, was a pharmacy and it was repurposed back in the 90s, early 90s as a library. The one in Urbana was actually built in the early 90s as a library and we're still going strong. In 2024, we acquired the Mobile Library, and thanks in part for you guys, especially with the COVID money that we received. So right now, the Mobile Library is very busy. We go to the Urbana and the Deltaville farmers markets every month. Twice a month, we go to Port Town Village right outside of Urbana. Twice a month, we go to Dockside in Locust Hill. And then twice a month, we go to the Riverside Rehab here in Saluda. During the summer reading programs, we went to the YMCA every week, and we went to the Horizons Daycare every week. So as you can see, we have been very busy with our van. You'll also see it at the Christmas parade in Urbana. You'll see it at the Juneteenth celebration. We do a lot of different events with it. The reception's been really, really good, especially even visitors coming from the campgrounds. It's a really good place to see, oh, they do have a great library. They come and visit us through this mobile library. So I know you like some numbers, so I just wanted to give you some numbers. So between the two branches and the mobile library, we have almost 53,000 physical items. So that's books, print books, audio books, DVDs. And then also we have STEM kits for kids and nature backpacks for kids. In fiscal year 25, we had over 15,000 visits. Fiscal year 26, it's looking like maybe a little bit more than that. So our numbers continue to grow, especially after COVID, just continue to increase our numbers. We had over 7,000 Wi-Fi sessions this past year. Really, that comes from people bringing in their own laptops, bringing in their own phones to connect to our Wi-Fi. A lot of boaters in Deltaville do that. They'll come to the library and actually work from the library, work remotely from the library. And that seems to be a very popular thing. And we just finished our summer reading program on July 23rd. And again, our numbers continue to go up year after year in participation. I mean, 92 reading contest participants. That's the most we've ever had. So here are some pictures of just programs and people. You can see there's Frank Long down there doing a presentation. To the right of him is our flower garden at the Urbana Library. Down below that, we have Our birding presentation that we have annually every February, that's a big crowd draw. And then we have a picture from one of our story times from this summer. That's our children's librarian, Kristen Robertson. And right beside her, her head cut off, but that was our summer intern, Izzy Kyland, and she did a great job. And another couple things you might not know about us. So we have two special book collections. In Urbana, we have Virginia Reference Collection. That is a reference collection, so you can't check them out. But it consists of primarily Virginia history with an emphasis on Middlesex County and our surrounding counties. We have family histories, colonial records, cemetery records. military records, like from the Civil War, and then also books about other historical topics like colonial architecture, that sort of thing. Down in Deltaville, we have the Chesapeake Bay collection, and that can be checked out. And that has everything bay-related, so science books, history books about the bay, cookbooks. We have books about sail and power boats, novels centered around Chesapeake Bay, biographies about people around the bay. That one can be checked out, and that is a very, very popular with our boaters, again, down in Deltaville. And I would be remiss without talking about our website. So our website is, when people go to it, I think they're kind of surprised at how much we actually have. So our website is yourmiddlesexlibrary.org, and we have 19 digital resources available on it. So that means access to Libby for e-books, all free, access to Canopy, which is free streaming movies, documentaries, TV series like the BBC TV series, those sort of things. We have digital magazines. We have digital newspapers from around the world and the U.S., you know, so papers like the Richmond Times Dispatch, you can look at it, look at a digital copy of it online, so it looks just like what the printed one. But we have like a good old-fashioned database, like with newspaper articles and journal articles. We have resources for For job seekers, we have resources for vets and even homework help for kids, students. So we have a wide variety of digital resources. I really encourage you to go and see those. And if you have any questions at all trying to get through our website, just please contact me. I'm more than happy to sit down with you and help you through all of these things. And this you've probably seen before, but this is our current strategic plan. So right now, we are working on getting physical space for teens, especially down in the Deltaville branch right now. recently received a grant from the river county's community foundation and that will help help us to purchase furniture for teens when we when i met with some teens from our high school just as a focus group to get what they really wanted i they didn't really talk about electronics or anything what they talked about is having a calming comfortable space for them so that they can collaborate together on group projects and even just something as simple as a dry erase board. so that they can do their math problems on it. So simple things like that and said, I think we can handle that. So that's what we're working on right now. Also looking towards the future, we're also looking at our meeting areas. So down in Deltaville, we have a nice meeting room that has doors. You can shut it off from the rest of the library. But in Urbana, we don't have that luxury. And so looking forward, looking at How can we add space to have that meeting space up there?

So that's really all it is.

So do you have any questions for me? No? Okay.

I'd just like to commend the great job that you're doing for the Winston County Library. Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. Well, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Middlesex, BCE, McKinsey, Kirby. So now we add tomatoes. Are you bringing zucchini or squash? I mean, Frank, you've got ice cream. I know, right? Or some sweet corn, you know?

So thank you all for having me this afternoon. It has been a true blessing and honor to be here. So I am the summer intern for the Middlesex County Virginia Cooperative Extension and a little bit to introduce myself. My name is Mackenzie Kirby. I am a recent graduate from Virginia Tech where I received my bachelor's degree in animal and poultry sciences with a minor in political science. I grew up on a farm in Hanover County, Virginia, and I've been working in veterinary medicine for the last four years. um coming into this internship i had a very good background in vegetables grain cattle and hog production but i lacked a lot of knowledge in agronomy crop and soils oyster production youth education as well as just business so to start out my internship one of the first big events or big two events i was able to be a part of was the virginia small grain spiel day held at the eastern virginia a rec in warsaw as well as the mid-atlantic wheat tour And at both of these events, I was able to meet with industry stakeholders, local producers, as well as some that weren't exactly local to this area, as well as other interns interning with different organizations and even Secretary Frazier, which is the Virginia Ag and Forestry Secretary. So at the small greens field day, I was able to meet with the producers as well as stakeholders there. We were able to visit farms in Essex, Middlesex, and King William counties, talking with the producers, learning about what they are doing, the problems they are facing, as well as how they make their decisions. This was also an opportunity to see some of the freeze damage firsthand of how that was affected throughout the different areas of the Middle Peninsula of this year's wheat crop, which did devastate some areas, unfortunately. While doing this, we were able to, again, just kind of meet and discuss. It was a great learning opportunity for me, and I'm very appreciative for that. But to start out, my actual events, I was able to host a couple programs here during the summer. My first one is called a JDAM workshop, which is all about organic practices that come from South Korea. So that program was actually held at the Deltaville branch of the Middlesex County Public Libraries. And I was able to teach locals about the JDM practices, their technologies, their origins, as well as introducing producers throughout the state that use these technologies already. And I had the great opportunity to actually be able to do demos for everyone that was there and even send them home with little starter kits for their solutions. My second program was a youth shooting education workshop. For this program, it was held at the Middlesex Shooting Sports Club where youth got, and their families actually, were able to get hands-on safety instruction as well as live fire practice in the disciplines of archery, shotgun, and rifle. We also had members of the Middlesex Sheriff's Office there as well as the Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources who were able to share their experiences, their opportunities with both participants and their families. We had education from outside sources as well. We had members of the King William Shooting Sports Club there, which is a 4-H club for King William County as our primary instructors. And then the shooting club also had some of their NRA certified instructors being there as our secondary instructors for the event. And we had support from local organizations such as Eminem Building Supply, Tractor Supply, as well as Malden Hill Venue. Some other things that I was able to do over the summer was I had opportunities to assist in the research plots throughout the county for both corn and soybean trials, doing variety testing. I was able to help install those plots. Unfortunately, I won't be around when they will be harvesting them, but I hope to see the data. We were also doing It's called Spore Trap Collection, which in the corn plot here in the county right up 17, it's collecting fungal diseases and basically detecting where they are in the county and how bad they are currently. I also had the opportunity to visit Oyster Seed Holdings, which there I got a tour of their facilities. I learned about the oyster industry because that is something I knew. absolutely nothing about learned the different sectors of their industry and just kind of how they work as a whole we were also able to visit crazy clover farm which has a butcher shop where mr wayne birch took me around through their butcher shop which is currently closed until they reopen later in the month i was got a tour of the facility seeing their yearly updates discuss with him some of the things that they do what they're doing with the county but also just see what legislation of the state and locally affects them and discuss that so to the board of supervisors for middlesex county and middlesex county as a whole thank you for this opportunity and welcoming me as your summer intern for vce it has been a great teaching experience got me out of my comfort zone in a few areas but also allowed me to share some of my knowledge back with the community so thank you thank you any questions

I have one question.

Yes, sir.

What is in the organic pesticide? I saw that. I wanted to know.

That one specifically, JDAM, is all about kind of curating it to what you want to apply it on. So your base is going to be some sort of starch, water, salt. But if you want to put it on tomato crops, it's suggested that you put old tomatoes back in there, whether that's the actual plant or the actual fruit. and help it ferment and then you're able to go in and spread it specifically on that crop because of the microbes in it are they're more likely to attack the fungal diseases that you're seeing or the pests that you're seeing on your crops right there.

Okay, so I'm not supposed to use that seventh test, Dustin.

Thank y'all.

Thank you very much. Item five, regular agenda items. Sheriff's Training Academy. Anne Marie.

Thank you. This agenda item is a budget supplement request for $15,200 from fund balance. Specifically, last year in the budget, there was no request for an increase in this line item called Sheriff's Training Academy. When we got the bill this year, it was for $31,200, and we'd only budgeted $16,000. The question, in case we've got any more questions, I see that Sheriff's Office did stick around. Thank you. The price for this academy, they've already given me a little brief academy and what the academy is, but it's based on $800 per employee that needs certification, which would include all their part-time employees as well as their full-time employees. So they've got, I think the number was 39 employees that need this certification. They get all their certification through this Hampton Roads Criminal Justice Training Academy. So 39 times 800 is where we get to 31,200. The company itself, the Hampton Roads Training Academy, I actually had to do a little bit because one of you had asked me about it. It has been around since 1972. And it was originally the Thomas Nelson Academy. I think some of you may remember that name. Anyway, it's supported in part, there are 30 member agencies including Middlesex County, from the Isle of Wight Sheriff's Office, Acomac, Cape Charles, all the police departments have to be members because this is how they get their certifications for their officers. The only other thing I was going to add was about their budget because I didn't know this either. The member revenue provides about $2.2 million. That's all those 30 members, whereas the state only provides about $300,000. So this is all funded by participating agencies, and it's further mandatory training for certification. I can't explain to you why there was no budget request increased, no budget increase requested, excuse me, but I can explain that we do need the money this year for the sheriff's office. So at this point, I'm asking for an appropriation of $15,200 for academy expense.

So what is the real number?

The real number, the real number is $31,200. That's the total cost.

Did we know that going into this?

If somebody did, I didn't. And they did not.

I mean, it's a pretty big increase.

Yes, sir, it is. And you can see what I did, again, I'm putting this out there on page 51, that the price in the prior year was $650 per person. This year it's $800. Next year it's going up to $825 per person. When we were talking about adding the new officer, the new deputy, that person is going to be one of those $825. It's going to cost us $825 a year just to keep them certified. We're required to do that. I'm guessing that part of it is now that we're using a lot more part-time employees because of the increased activity over at the courthouse. All of them have to have this certification.

That includes our dispatchers as well.

Oh, thank you. I didn't know that. Dispatchers too.

Well, that was my next question, which was 31 people or thereabouts. What happens if somebody's not certified? What's the advantage of the certification?

It's Major Chris Easter. Is that right? Major Chris Easter.

Do you understand the question?

I do, sir. If someone's not certified, that's the question, correct? Correct. If someone's not certified, then they're no longer allowed to be an officer.

Really? Correct. All right. What's the certification process time frame?

So a lot of us go through it for a year. So every year we get certified to go through the annual training requirements.

Is it like 20 hours or something a year?

I mean, just like Sheriff Sampson had said before, the previous sheriff never had upped the budget to capture the previous years. So she was stating that the previous years there were upticks in how much the cost was.

Major, this is for recertification, is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Initial certification is a different ballgame.

It is.

Thank you. And they are handling certifications that on site or online.

It's uh, so our, our, we, we do have a, um, we do have a training facility that's over at the new building. So unfortunately that training facility right now is not certified by DCJS.

It's not certified. So we could have the course.

Meaning that in the future, there is the ability to have the training that's here at our new sheriff's office.

So what are we doing about that?

Well, right now, the jail right now is the one that's helping us out. So we send our stuff over to the jail. The jail approves it, goes through Hampton Roads Criminal Justice Training Academy. That way, one of their instructors has to come over to our building, and they sit there through the training to ensure that we have the training that's in our building.

So the training comes to our building?

Yes, sir. It does, but we have to go through the jail to do it because there's only one locally here in Middlesex County. So right now we're looking for DCGS and then Mr. Coker to come down and make sure that our facility is good enough to where we can do the training there. Some of it is online, though, sir, and that does require funds as well. Some of it is online.

So what are we doing about, you know, so we can cut out some of these costs?

Yes, sir. Absolutely looking at that, sir. We need that to happen. Detective Riley right now is the one that's dealing with our training. Him and I discussed this, and we need to move forward with DCGS and Hampton Roads coming up here to certify our building in order to do that.

So we already got that in progress.

Oh, yes, sir. We've had those discussions. Yes, sir. We just haven't had it happen yet. No, sir. Because we do have one facility that's able to do that for us here through the jail. They're the only one certified Middlesex County. So we have to send our training over to them. Then they go to Hampton Roads Criminal Justice Training Academy. And then one of their people has to come over from the jail to sit in the class to make sure that our classes get completed here. That's just the one just locally there. There are some that requires our officers to go down to Hampton Roads or to Richmond or to some other place that they need to go to in order for them to stay current.

Without a moving parts.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

Does that answer your question, sir?

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Yes, sir.

At this point, I'm simply, what am I asking for? Good question. I'm asking for an appropriation to approve the budget supplement 2027-002, please.

I so move. Thank you, Mr. Jesse. Second. Second by Mr. Crittenden. Any further discussion? Seeing none, roll call.

Mr. Jesse.

Yes.

Mr. Williams?

Yes.

Mr. Bill Harris?

Yes.

Mr. Crittenden?

Yes.

Mr. Don Harris?

Yes. Motion's approved.

Thank you.

All righty. Citizens' appointments? Anne-Marie?

Sir, today we're asking for just two. The first one is going to be for a reappointment of Monica Sanders to the Wetlands Board. Remember, there was a gap in her submission of the form. She continued to want to be a participant, but there was a gap in her form submission. So she is now being reappointed, is asking to be reappointed. And on the Planning Commission, we've got a Ben Butler. Again, that's a reappointment.

You have a what?

Bev Butler, the appointment. It's my voice. It's not you. My friend said it was a hay fever or something. Was it stuff called allergies?

Okay, so we have two that we need to approve. Yes, please.

And, Mr. Chairman, I think, and Ms. Riccardi, I think Mr. Longus had something to add about the appointments, if you like. Evening, afternoon.

The appointment for Monica is a reappointment, so that'll establish that we'll have four members. We do have one alternate that is helping with the board, so we have our five. So, Mr. Jesse, what we're waiting on is one Jamaica representative for the Wetlands Board and also a BZA member.

I have somebody that's going to go online and go for the BZA. I'll get somebody from Wetland.

Once we have that, we'll have our five members of each of those boards with an alternate for the Wetlands board. All right. We'll do it. Okay. But the reappointment will keep our established quorum we have. All right.

Wayne, you want to make the motion?

Oh, go ahead.

There's two people that need to be reappointed or appointed. It's the same end result. It's Monica Sanders to the Wetlands Board and Bev Butler to the Planning Commission.

Yes, sir, please. All right. I'll make that motion.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jesse.

Second.

Thank you, Bill. Roll call.

Mr. Williams?

Yes.

Mr. Bill Harris?

Yes.

Mr. Crittenden?

Yes.

Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Don Harris?

Yes. Motion's approved. Item C, noise ordinance committee.

That's been withdrawn.

Pardon me?

That has been withdrawn. So that particular individual changed their mind. So if we're on to item D, what's your convenience? okay siemens contract that's me um today i'm bringing forth to you the annual contract to provide um hvac maintenance preventative maintenance over at the new courthouse um located at 73 bound bowden street we're using rather than bidding this stuff out we do use as you know we often use cooperative purchasing agreements in this case we're using source well um We included a sample contract, and this has been reviewed and approved, except for one minor change by the county attorney, which is related to the location of venue location. Thank you. We did evaluate three qualified service providers, and one of them is our current provider, Johnson Controls. The other one was called Southern Air, and the final one was, of course, Siemens. They all were very well understood. They understood the equipment very well, but overall, Siemens demonstrated the greatest understanding. They provide us a very competitive quote. We gave notice. We were dealing with Johnson Controls, JCI. We gave them the required 90-day notice. They are fully aware. They're cycling out. They've also been, I will give them credit, they're extremely cooperative with us. Even though they know their contract expires, they're continuing to support us. But at this time, the staff recommends awarding a one-year mechanical and automation service agreements to Siemens in the amount of $84,000. And that's for the period of August 1st. That's not. I lied. It's going to be because we already passed August 1st. I wrote this earlier. September 1st through August 1927.

We're going to start this September 1st.

I would definitely recommend approving this to Siemens.

Questions? If it's the board's desire to approve this, I would ask that the motion be to authorize the county administrator to execute the Siemens contracts with any revisions or recommendations of the county attorney to the contract language, please.

Yeah. Okay. We need a motion.

So moved.

Thank you. So moved by Mr. Crittenden. Second?

I'll second it.

Second by Mr. Jesse. Further discussion? Seeing none, roll call.

Mr. Bill Harris?

Yes.

Mr. Crittenden?

Yes.

Mr. Jesse?

Yes.

Mr. Williams?

Yes.

Mr. Don Harris?

Yes. Motion's approved.

Thank you very much. Oh, and I did, I think I wrote this in here, but I want to make sure you know that funding in this agreement is included in the current year budget. So this is a typical budget item. So thank you.

Item six, administrative updates, cigarette tax report only, staff report only. Unfinished and new business, unfinished business, unfinished business, constitutional office officers and county 3.5 raised discussion.

Thank you. This item was discussed at the last board meeting with direction to bring it back to this meeting. As you recall, when the General Assembly passed their budget, instead of using the 2% annual increase, which we all included in our budget, they actually amended it and they gave everybody a 3.5% increase. So the comp board raises are going up 3.5%. Although the comp board gave it to them, or is gonna give it to them, you don't have to, you can't. Last time we all agreed that it would be a great idea to do it, we all, that would be the, board employees all the treasurers the elected officials all agreed that this would be great they gave you a letter suggesting that it was great um and you all said you didn't have enough time to look at that those letters um but at this time we would like for you to consider whether you want to increase the annual raise that's this year's raise gets built permanently into their budget um into their salaries either increase the annual raise from two and a half to three hundred 3.5% for comp board employees, for all employees, or do nothing and the raise remains at 2%. As I recall, the extra cost would cost about $72,000 or more if you chose to do this for all employees. The total cost was about $99,000, but that part of that's going to be offset by the state's comp board supplements. The question is if you want to appropriate $72,000 to be funded and increase the raise effective August 1st from 2.5% to 3.5% for all eligible county employees.

Discussion?

so unless a motion's made it's going to be three point two point out right and we have already given just right you have given the 2.0 effective july 1st that's our constitutionals no theirs will only go up if the county if the comp board when the comport increases yes theirs will go up yeah that's what's good yes

Whether we have a motion here or not.

Right. The count board has to be adjusted. So let's say right now you're paying somebody $40,000. The count board says no, you're paying them $41,000. You're paying them $41,000. Okay. So whether you do anything or not, that will... And you had costs.

It was like a total of $90,000 with some costs of Middlesex 70.

Right. That's right. $99,000 more and $27,000 is going to be reimbursed from the count board requiring about $72,000 to be appropriated from the count board.

So they make a mandate for 20,000, and then look at us to come up with 70.

Right. Well, I don't think they see it that way, but yes, you are right.

I just say I don't like this process at all. We value the employees. We have to have them. I think we have good employees, and we're very fortunate for that. And I also believe that we demonstrate that. I know that the Board didn't discuss any kind of health insurance increase or anything. It was $100,000, I believe, roughly more this year. I think the fact that we just went in on, yes, we value the employees. Like I said, we didn't discuss it. We knew we needed to do that for the employees. I don't like this thing of dangling a carrot out in front of employees. I think it's disgraceful. We're going to get a raise, not going to get a raise. The bonus, not going to get a bonus. We need to do a better job of getting our budget sticking to our budget, and that's where we are. The state brings and moves things back and forth and everything. We need to do a better job of how we need to look at our employees. We need to compensate them. We need to attract and retain. And we have a new county administrator. If we need to go in and look at positions, so forth and so on, then that's what we need to do. But this thing of the state constantly asking us to change back and forth, they're going to throw in $16,000, we need to throw in $70,000, I don't like the process. I don't think we're treating the employees fairly by doing it in this manner.

Your $77,000, what is that? Is that just raise on insurances and everything that adds up?

Right. No, that's the only thing this would cost. Excuse me. The only thing this would cost would be salaries plus payroll taxes. So, yes, that's the total increased cost.

telling us to give three and a half percent, that actually is going to cost us $70,000?

$72,000, if you chose to.

And that's insurances and benefits and all of that.

Well, there's no other insurance involved in that. The only thing that's involved in the $72,000 is going to be the increase in salary, plus the payroll taxes. That's all that's cost. Payroll taxes is $72,000.

If the salaries increases, then VRS is increasing.

Right, I'm sorry, and VRS. You're right, VRS. And I did include all that. Sorry, I've got it in the bank.

Is that in the 70 zone?

It is.

And that's all employees?

We're also contemplating, if I'm not mistaken, we have an ordinance that we're going to be talking about later. It's a 2% employee raise.

That's an employee bonus.

That's a bonus.

Right, a bonus, a one-time bonus.

Like I said, I personally, I know that this is, This wasn't pretty. There was nothing pretty about presenting this to you all, but we also didn't have a choice. If we didn't, that wouldn't have been fair to everybody either. So we recognize that if you don't want to do this or if the timing isn't right, the budget isn't right, That's going to move on, but we at least had to discuss it, and I think you all are discussing it. So that's exactly what we needed from you. Whether you want to go on with an increase in the annual raise from 2% to 3.5%, it sounds like that's the only discussion for this moment. But to that end, you are right. At the last board meeting, you, the board, approved the advertising of an ordinance to allow for a 2% bonus, and that's going to be discussed after 7 p.m. And that's related to last year.

So right now we're talking about the 3.5% for everybody?

Yep.

All employees? Well, not the schools. They already got it. No, I ain't talking about the schools. I ain't talking about the schools.

Well, and there's a couple people that are exempt from getting a more raise. Yeah, Matt. Special Matt.

And later, we're going to be talking about a two-point bonus. And we got approved that, too. So, one of them is a bonus. It's flat money. And this one here is a three and a half percent to give all employees, everybody, a five, I mean, a three and a half percent raise. And this is not what the state is doing. This is what we are doing because all employees is not comp employees. So the figure that we're talking about is less than $71,000. The 71 comes out because we want to give everybody else that are not cop employees the extra money.

Correct. Right, and just to, because I know there was some confusion about it with at least one person had asked me about, this would be 1.5% above and beyond the 2% that the board allocated in the budget. not 3.5% on top of the 2%. I just want to make that clear.

Okay. On to the next.

All right. What you need? We're going to just bypass it?

It's not a motion to vote on.

Yep. So on to the next.

Wait a minute now. You need a motion to give everybody 3.5%. That's what you need? Change it to 3.5%. That's what you need?

Well, I mean, as an employee, the answer is yes. But as your legal counsel, I'll say it a different way. You have options here, okay? So if the board chooses to do nothing, the constitutional officers, like some that you've had present tonight, Commonwealth's attorney, sheriff, treasurer, clerk, commissioner of revenue, they will get a 3.5% cost of living increase from the state, okay? If you do nothing. What administration is asking is, and I think what they're recommending, They're saying they have the money to give all of your employees, not just the constitutional officers. So think of planning and zoning. Think of administration. Think of myself. And we would get the same cost of living increase. Okay. That requires a motion.

And that's what's causing the extra $70,000?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah. So Anne Marie wrote a very good memo here pointing out to you kind of your options. But it never can be simple, gentlemen. It's always complicated when we get the state involved.

Well, for everybody, I'm going to make a motion everybody get 3.5%.

As one of those everybody's. Thanks, Reggie. You got a motion on the floor.

I'll second that.

Okay.

Further discussion?

Mr. Crittenden?

Wait a minute. Is what Reggie was asking, is that, because I thought it was one point.

So, Mr. Williams, if you're okay, let's add clarification to the motion. Mr. Williams' motion is to increase the COLA from 2% to 3.5% for all county employees.

Mister Carty would that be correct and make sure that that's only effective August 1st effective August 1st.

Mister Williams are you OK with that clarification to your memo of your motion, excuse me. I know I said the clarification is that this would be a motion to increase the cola for County employees all County employees starting August 1st from 2% to 3 and a half percent. So it's a one and a half percent increase We just want to make sure that's very clear.

Yes, sir, that is correct.

All right, so Mr. Williams has said that he is in agreement with that because his mic wasn't on.

Roll call now.

Mr. Crittenden?

No.

Mr. Jesse?

Yes.

Mr. Williams?

Yes.

Mr. Bill Harris?

No.

No.

Mr. Don Harris.

No, motion's failed. All right, new business and matters presented by the board. Start with you, Wayne.

I did attend the Middle Peninsula Planning District meeting. We are getting things straight, I would say. Because we hired a, we hired the Berkeley group for part-time to help run it until we get a full-time executive director right now. They need a CFO as well. Yeah, we need a CFO. So we're heading in the right direction. John Magruder is now the chairman of the commission at this time. And that was it for me on my meetings. I will meet with the Band of Austin Festival Thursday coming. But that's it for me.

On July 22nd, Mr. Gentry and I had a teleconference with a representative from Polymorphic, which is an AI company specializing in programs for local governments. It was an interesting presentation. AI is here to stay, and some of the things he explained were kind of interesting, help us deliver better, more efficient service to our constituents. One of the things that I know they mentioned was it could help with FOIA requests because I know that some of our employees do a lot of work on FOIAs. And I do believe it deserves some further consideration. On the same day, on the 22nd, we had our joint school board meeting, reference to renovations. On the 24th, a juvenile detention commission meeting And finally, a couple of weeks ago, I sent a memo to my fellow board members recommending that we explore the possibility of creating a harbor master position for our county. And so I've asked all of you to review that, make sure that you've seen it. And I'd like to put it on the agenda for an upcoming board meeting because I think it's something that would be worthwhile and it could be very beneficial not only to our business community and our marinas and our Maritime industry, but also can help us I think tax wise revenue wise so that's it. Thank you.

Mr. Cruden, mr. Harris No, I'm nothing at this time. Thank you.

Mr. Williams

I got to laugh a little bit because I'm going to think about Wayne because we went to that Middle Peninsula meeting, which he got a whole lot of work to do when it started to, we talking about handling the money. Seeing it's a big problem when money get way out of hand and we don't handle it. And that's why I always say that we got to do a better job of how we're moving and how we're doing money. And the second thing, we was on the renovation committee, Don. Don left it in my hand. John didn't show up and give me a cause. I said, oh, they want me. I said, they don't want me to lead it. They don't want me to do it. So I thought it was a real good meeting. And I noticed in our minutes today that in Section B, it seems like the schools wrote the Section B when it was talking about what went on at the renovation committee. And an interesting term because, you know, it's not a mystery that The schools want to move the eighth grade to the high school and build a new well, a new building. And interested in the writing, they call it eighth grade academy. Now, we better be very careful when we start saying academy because we are saying something that we don't know that. In our minutes, it said eighth grade academy. And at the same meeting, I also asked for them to do a breakdown for the supervisors how much the gymnasium costs, how much the auditorium costs, and how much the rendition costs. I'm still waiting for it. Nobody gave me a price, but they gave me a lot of excuses. So what are you saying, Reggie? This is what I'm saying. They gave us a price that they confirmed with basically $63 million. And I told them in the meeting, I said, well, I showed you a price of $57 million that the one up at Montrose High School, brand new with everything in it. And see, I was approached that Mr. Williams, he want to build new and it costs more money. Because I can tell you right now, according to the numbers, the numbers do not say that. And the numbers don't say it because we have seen it, something that was on the Zoom meeting with the contractor, and they know about it from the head, the chairman, they know about it. But yet in our minutes, I've seen somewhere it says 62, and I don't appreciate the factor of saying you didn't say anything but what I said. Because if we let information get out, not that we need to change our things, because if we know now we are a startup, kind of like getting the system together. That's why I always say system together. Because the ones that own this, that were on the board when we started out, and I haven't looked at the minutes yet, and I know the board said that we want you to look at the system. We only, well, somebody only look at a renovation. But this is where we're at right now. All right? Moving eighth grade to the high school, we're creating more room at the elementary school. I've been saying that for three or four years. What are your problems? Solve your problem there because it's cheaper to build at the elementary level than it is at the high school. And I'm not saying not to renovate the high school. All I'm asking you is don't wait and run the numbers. But then the craziest thing that none of us thought about, you put the fifth grade in the middle school. Now you do have a scenario, because none of us really thought about that. And like I said before, I think about this thing a lot. And I've been thinking about it a whole lot. And when you start up and say, Reggie, you talk all the time. Yes, I do, because I think a lot. People that think a lot talk a lot. Anyway, this is what I'm saying. I say, hey, I'm not going to solve the problem for you. Some say you ought to be on the school board or something like that. No. I was sitting in a meeting right at this platform, and one of the gentlemen was on the school board when they say they voted unanimously. He said, I didn't see the blueprints. I don't want to be there. So if you don't see something that actually happened, how can you approve something unanimously? You can't do it. But I said that I really didn't like when I went through it. I didn't like the idea. I saw academy and I didn't like because I said, well, I appreciate. Remember, use a different word that if you gave the supervisor, hey, what it costs to build a gymnasium? Because, you know, do we have to do auditorium right now? I think what we're done. So can we do it in parts? Can we do something? And wait, we don't need gymnasium now for the middle school. How much money is there? Then we still can renovate the high school 9 through 12 and get the wire factor. But the only thing about that is they told me they're going to do skin so it don't have to look like the picture that we put on the front page of the seminar. Okay? So it don't have to look like that. So I'm sitting there still thinking about it. And, man, I just said we're going to work this thing out because nobody, I don't feel right now, that we all think as much about meal success as we think we do. And I've said the thing that this board think about the kids of Milsom County. Let me give you an example of that. We're talking about the school system. They'll tell us, yeah, yes, I'm saying it. We want to move every child in the school system We're going to put them in a trailer or whatever we need to move to do a renovation. And every child is going to be affected in the system because you're moving everybody. So if you sit there and tell me they're not going to be affected, you can move Are you going to move the 8th grade to 11 kids? Oh, we're going to put them in a trailer bill. Or if you're going to move the other ones, then you're going to do the elementary kids. When you've got a good scenario that they can handle it, because back, if you're talking to one of the teachers, what you want one to do for the... for the little kids. They can draw out the teachers and principal. Teachers and principal. Said this is how I want the room to look for three and four years old. Now we turn them down and send them everywhere else. So our growth is not on the top, but our growth is in the system. And we wondered, are we getting money for these younger kids? Nobody told us. Are we getting any money for the younger kids, three and four years old? How much are we getting? Oh, yeah, they go three years old. They ride the bus. They're three years old getting, yeah. So this is what I'm saying. And some of us are saying we went too far to change what we're doing now. Y'all heard me a number of times. When you get in the thicks, sometimes you got to run back the other way because it might be quick saying that you're going over the other side. So this is what I'm saying. They say we went too far. I mean, they went too far to do something different now because they had made an investment of what they got. And I'm just using this as an example. Well, let me tell you something. All the engineering and all the stuff that we're talking about that they have to do now, the other guy got it all done. Because remember, we was doing kind of like a horseshoe from the other one, like we did the elementary school when we got the blueprints and stuff from over there in Lancaster and built that school. That's how you save money. But if I focus on any one thing, then I lose my thought of everything. So when someone's might hear, well, you know, no, we ain't going too far. If we're going to spend a plus or minus on the $30,000, $30 million I was talking about, and we see that our things that we have really said $30 million, well, they say engineers are going to get about 8%. And we didn't use the plus or minus because you do the math on the plus or minus, that's anywhere from zero to 8%. So that's 23% right there. Where's the cost there? All I'm asking for is show me the numbers. And we had a lot of things today that if we work together as a team, then it won't cost as much because now, in the workplace now, we have less people working, yet everybody's wanting more because we don't want to change from what we used to do. And we got AI. I'm going to say this and then I'm going to close, darling, and talk long enough. We got AI. And when we got AI, I dare you to put AI and tell you how to work your workforce. I dare you to put it. I can tell you that.

Mr. Chair, I have one more thing. Vandal Fire Department, we're having the crab and shrimp fest August the 22nd. There's all the crabs and shrimp you can eat. We have two sessions. One starts from 3 to 5, and then we have another session from 6 to 8. Steamed crabs and steamed shrimp. $45. No, it's $45. But if you don't get a ticket from me, it's going to be $60 at the door.

So I'm going to let you know that. Okay. I'd like to open the public hearing.

Public comment period. Excuse me. Comment. Sorry. Come on down, Ms. Moore.

Don't you have the back to school event? When is that? Yes, ma'am.

Okay, sorry. That'll be at the end, the PSA announcements. Okay. I had no intentions on talking today, but yes, our Commonwealth attorney was a little out of line, but you know, I'm sitting here listening to you all. You voted down the COLA raise for the employees. We gave the sheriff's office a position last year. We just gave them another position just now. If they're increasing, you gotta understand the Commonwealth Attorney's gotta increase. And I'm not in total agreeance with all of it. As the previous sheriff stated, as soon as we move into the building, we'll be accredited. We're not accredited. have an issue, having an issue with the body cameras. I feel that we ended the committee too soon. We should have pushed harder for the information that we were looking for because this has become a flub, is the nicest way to say it now. There are internal people getting promotions, so the money is changing anyway. There are people taking home cars that don't need to be taking home cars. We are expending a lot of money where we don't need to. The bags, I had the honor to go over to Lancaster Courthouse to assist somebody, and they used the bags. They had one gentleman sitting at the door, one. You go in, you have your smartwatch, you have your cell phone, you have whatever, because you know the attorneys do not have to put their stuff in a bag. So my girlfriend dropped her smartwatch in the bag. We went into the courtroom. When we were done, on the way out the door, they have this little thing on the wall. Just like if you go to Target and the girl takes your thing and hits it on the counter and it opens, same thing. You tap it on the wall, it opens, you take your phone out and they drop it in the bucket. You don't want to leave with your stuff in the bag because you can't get it open. No additional employees were needed at that point. So I, as Mr. Williams likes to say, they went over to Lancaster, please go to Lancaster Courthouse and take a tour. Because it was smooth as can be and there were a lot of people in the courtroom and we were sitting there for three hours. So it did not take them no more employees to handle this issue. I wish you all would start looking and not just jumping because we just hired another person. But if the sheriff office needs another person, so they've gotten two, you have to think something's got to happen at the Commonwealth attorney's office. And in the past we are the previous, and I want to say, I think it wouldn't might've been you, Don had talked to the previous Commonwealth attorney, I mean, County administrator and the sheriff, the previous sheriff to contact the people that own the camp out of state. Because if we're spending that kind of money, we're not bringing that kind of money back. I live by the camp. I see what comes in and out of there. We're not bringing that kind of money back into our economy. So if we're spending the money, the camp needs to do something for us in return because they're a nuisance as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. I was looking at the thing. My PSA announcement, we have the back to school bash on Saturday. All the children of the community are involved. They're all permitted to come to Camp Piankatank from 11 to 3. They get to use the pool. They get their school supplies. We have whole rooms set up. It is a big event. including children and parents. We were at just shy of 300 last year. It has increased every year. I really hope that you all would come out and see that. And just so you know, if you're not on Facebook, because we don't know how to get the information out any other way, August 12th at St. Clair Walker Middle School will be a community forum from 530 to 830. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else like to speak? Seeing none, I'll close the public comment.

And... Do you want to take a brief recess before you go into closed session? Or do you want to go ahead into closed session?

Let's just go on into closed session. Okay.

All right, Mr. Chairman, it would be appropriate at this time for the board to make a motion to convene and close session.

It's a long one, so give me a moment.

Pursuant to Virginia Code Section 2.2-3711, A7 and A8. This is so the board may consult with legal counsel regarding, it's no longer probable, it's the actual litigation filed by the Commonwealth's attorney against the Board of Supervisors regarding funding of staff and regarding the zoning litigation that has been filed by Cottrell versus the Board of Supervisors and Middlesex County Circuit Court, and so that you may discuss the specific legal process and questions with your legal counsel. And also, so pursuant to Virginia Code Section 2.2-3711 and . So the Board may discuss and consider the acquisition of real property for a public purpose and discuss the disposition of publicly held property, where a discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position of the public body, and so that you may consult with legal counsel about the specific legal process involving buying the property and selling it, and related questions.

So moved. Second. So moved by Mr. Jesse, second by Mr. Crittenden. Seeing no further discussion, roll call.

Mr. Jesse?

Yes.

Mr. Williams?

Yes.

Mr. Bill Harris?

Yes.

Mr. Crittenden?

Yes.

Mr. Don Harris?

Yes, and we are moving downstairs for our closed session, so anybody left in here can stay.

Yes, and then we have a night meeting, so if there's any action that's taken, it will occur before that, most likely.

We are adjourned.