Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Are

you ready? The light tells us we're on the air. Okay. Okay. Call the meeting to order. 7:36. Uh all stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, indivisible, liberty, liberty, and justice for all.

Okay. Uh, keeping with the open public meetings act, this meeting has been listed in the home news tribune. Um, Janice, can we do roll call? I will, but I have one announcement to make first. So, the applicant's court reporter couldn't make it at the last minute, so they are going to rely on the recording that we use here. So, Craig asked that we all pay attention and speak clearly into the microphones. Got it. Can do. Okay. Mr. Zanger, Mr. Meansen here. Miss Hutchinson here. Miss Melone

here. Mr. Rubenstein here. Mr. Vna here. Mr. Brooks here. Miss Dandia here. Mr. Fshine here. Mr. Manley here. Okay. As a general announcement, no new testimony will be heard after 1000 p.m. Um, we everybody should have a copy of the minutes from previous meeting. Uh if I get a motion to approve. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor say I. I. I. I.

Okay. All right. Adoption. We don't have any resolutions to adopt. We do have an extension request from GRMS Holdings LLC, 389 Old George's Road. You're up. Good evening. Priscilla Triola from the law firm of Biger Elias Triolo and deal on behalf of GRMS was the owner of 389 Old George's Road. We received uh approval from this board a couple years ago and last year I was here and we asked for a one-year extension and it appears that the one year was not exactly enough in order to complete um the work that we need to do in order to have the plans in a form for the chairman to sign. Um, I had written a letter and asked for a 60-day extension, and I'd like to amend that to 120 days because I received some communications after I wrote the letter that indicates that your engineer and the applicant's engineer may have to speak a little bit more before the plans are submitted for signature. So, with that, I'd like 120day extension of the approvals.

Okay. Um, does anybody have any issues with that? No, we just, you know, on the record, Pat, you know, we we should reflect the fact that Jim's been working with their engineer and the planning board. When we approved it, we did require them to flip the building and the parking lots. So, I had there was some extensive revisions and underground drainage. So, I think Jim and I both agree that the request is reasonable. Yes, that is correct. So, we've been working with their engineer and we're close. Okay. All right. Um, so we're going to take a vote on the So, if I can get a uh a motion to approve or disapprove an extension of 120 days. So moved.

Second. Uh, roll call. Mr. Meansen? Yes. Miss Hutchinson? Yes. Miss Melone? Yes. Mr. Rubenstein? Yes. Mr. Vna? Yes. Mr. Brooks? Yes, Miss Decandia. Yes, Mr. Fine. Yes, Mr. Manley. Yes. Okay, we got it. I thank you very much and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your meeting. Thank you. You too.

Okay. Uh moving on to new applications. Application number 2696H properties block 224 lots 10 112 12.01 and 12.02. 02 24 2340 and 2440 route 130 and 28 and 14 Quarry Lane. This is a preliminary and major site plan for two warehouse office flex space buildings. Um before we turned over to the to the admin attorney uh I think Jason, one of our our uh board members has an announcement to make.

Go ahead, Jason. Um, I I have a conflict represented uh principles in a prior transaction. So, I'm going to just step down, recuse myself from this application. Okay. And I'll take a seat over there and watch the festivities. Oh, yeah. Enjoy. Just no heckling. Okay. All right. That business is taken care of. So, good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening. Can I get my application approved as quickly as that Jim? Jim, I don't know. I don't know about that. I just wanted to note for the record that I've been advised that notice and publication are in order with you. So you have you can

My name is Jim Stall S Ahl the firm is Boris Golden and Foley etc in North Brunswick. We've been in this town about 65 years through my late partner Jack Boris. For those of you who are new to the board, uh you are privileged to be with, well, I have to be prejudiced and biased, but one of the finest professional staff that I uh appear before the board will talk about that later. No, I'm serious. It's a it's a good it's a good place to be and I thank you for your consideration. Uh we've done our publication and the issue of the court reporter. I want to apologize more to counsel, but I'm going to get him a transcript. I got a call this afternoon from my regular court reporter who indicated that the person she had scheduled had called in with a viral inspe viral infection uh and could not get a replacement on short notice. So I spoke to uh staff and we agreed or they agreed that we can use the transcript which is available tomorrow but I will have the transcript strike that yeah I will have the audio video transcribed into a transcript because it's easier for council to use uh than try and listen to a transcript which I've had to do on occasion and it doesn't always work out. So let me give you a short introduction since I never do a summary uh or a conclusion. Uh I let the board has already listened but I just want to uh remind or disclose some things to the board. This particular property has been in the name of the uh present owner uh Mr. Rosenberg for only about 40ome years. Uh he reminded me that my partner Jack Boris did appear for him in 1987 uh on some application and he has owned KW Rastl since that time. Approximately a year ago, not saying that Tom is

wrong, I think we started to have a conversation with he uh and staff about the use of the property and the dream came up and I just want to to resolve. It's not a typical warehouse. We've used the word warehouse slashflex space. what it is more akin almost to a self-s storage facility with certain uh additions or agenda. These units will be 12 of them are what we call contractor units. So if you have a electrical business, a a custom carpentry, plumbing, design, printing, whatever you have, uh you will take one of these units. It has a door in the rear uh for entrance for the office and then it has a rollup door so that you can keep your uh you can do some work in there. No one's going to say you can't. I'm not suggesting that you would. It's not manufacturing. It's not it may be some fabrication. There will be no noise, no smell. uh I may f they may fabricate drawers or custom cabinetry or some small plumbing or electrical or something else that we or you don't know right now we have no tenants uh it's a little bit too early to do that but we believe that this is a service uh which is necessary and very very useful. So the facility is uh on Georgia on the route 130. Uh it's currently used and will continue to use be used by KW RTL which is a fuel supply business and has done so for I say 40 plus years. The existing I don't have the lot I not I maybe 112. It's a lot that's not part of the application per se. That's where the rrestle trucks are are stored, let's say, parked, and then they go out on a daily basis, deliver their fuel, oil, come back, load up, go out again, or

maybe they stay in the yard. That is not overflow from the new facility that is existing. It is not to be used for parking of any other owned vehicles. In other words, we're not going to rent out to rider or to any other user. It's only for KW Rrestler. The uh 12 units will be self- sustaining with regard to parking as indicated uh in the report uh that Mr. that you've seen before with regard to traffic and and other issues. So that is the way it's going to work. Uh, as was indicated, we are closing off approximately four entranceways on uh, Route 130 and we're going to have one uh, on Route 130 uh, which will service the the units. John Ray, REA, will testify as to traffic. He's been here before. I have witnesses, but I'm going to try and move them along as this board knows some of the uh, I don't want to call them older, the more mature uh, members. Uh I don't like to waste time but I like to put a complete application on. So the services will be each unit will be serviced by uh its own air conditioning system HVAC its own water and its own sewer uh coming out of the building. Uh one of the questions is going to be garbage. Uh we're working that out. We will collect and depending on how we want to get paid by our tenants uh recyclables and then garbage. We don't envision much garbage except coffee cups and depending on what uh what the business is, we could have wood scraps or or or PVC scraps. Uh and then of course uh you know that that is the garbage and maybe coffee cups and snacks

from workers using it for lunch or dinner. It is going to be a 247 hours opening. Now I'll explain that the existing KW Rastal facility is and has been 24 hours. Uh they deliver at all times. Uh they do provide emergency services uh to our township u responders when those the trucks or the fire trucks need uh to be uh gassed up. Uh so it is 24 hours the timing and and Mr. Ray will describe to you really what 24 hours means. The 24 hours with regard to the actual users of the units again we don't envision people coming and going in 24 hours. What we envision is uh in my younger days I would go I I work late or go back after dinner to my office. Uh what we envision is someone's an electrician. He goes there and he does his paperwork. Uh his his wife threw him out for the night or uh he's he doesn't he can't sleep. He goes there, he does his work. He may invite a a a customer or not, but the business it's not a a running business that all 12 units will be running 247. uh they'll be there on Saturdays and perhaps on Sunday or perhaps not and I cannot quantify that for you except to say uh that there's no one to be disturbed. KW Rastal surrounding uses that are not residential. Several residences on Rastal property and my one funny joke tonight, they may keep some of the residents of the uh corrections institute awake, but I doubt it. uh which is next door off of Quarry Lane

and uh I think even DPW depending on the season may be required to come out uh late at night or early morning. So that's that's the picture I wanted to paint for you. As council knows, I have a tendency to lead my well with regard to my professional witnesses the way I do it just so you understand uh I don't do a Q&A. I will qualify my my witness and either they're experienced enough and we're a team and I'll just tell them three questions or two. Tell me what's there now. Tell me what we're going to do and tell me what uh your response is uh to Jim's report. I may slip in once in a while and say, "Oh, did you consider this or or something of that nature with regard to engineering?" you know, they'll look at the report. That's what I do. So, you're not going to get bored with me saying, you know, going back and forth. I don't do that. Uh the only one I will do that, and I am a little bit leading until council tells me to stop, is for example, my client, uh, Mr. Rosenberg, who I always assist them. uh he's smart enough, trust me, to do it on his own, but I try and move the application and I know what I want to ask and you'll of course have the opportunity to uh to question him. Uh that's all I have for the introduction. Uh m we will take a seat over there with Mr. Rosenberg and then we'll get to work.

Pat, if I could just make one comment, Jim, you mentioned 24-hour operation for uh Rassle and our our before us tonight. We have nothing to do with Rrestle. That's a that's an you know the uh there's a subdivision line that's an adjacent property that's a non-conforming use. They're not expanding that. We have we have nothing to do with that. We're we're voting we're not voting at all on the raft obligation. Right.

Oh, I did forget one thing. Uh with regard to the property now it's you know I hate that senior moment. Uh, as I say, we will be doing the 247. Oh, no outside storage. There will be no outside storage of any of the raw materials of the users of the 12 units. I know that's important because there's probably a prohibition that Tom would raise. Now, I'm always honest and Tom will tell you and um I I'm upfront because I don't want anything to come back and say, "Stall, you didn't tell me the truth." I can't say that on occasion the the custom uh carpenter may not leave some 2 by twos or flashings outside of his, but that's not storage. We're not going to allow the lease will so provide no storage, no hazardous or environmentally dangerous material. Entry is going to be by a a key pad or a fob and it takes a picture of ever comes in. We will have the right on on fast notice to inspect any location uh to make sure we're not there's not a storage of gasoline, propane, oil, turp, any of the you know in volume that is deemed to be uh dangerous. And of course fire fire safety uh and code enforcement have the right to uh to come over knock on the door and say let me in. And because that's that's who this this particular owner is.

I'm assuming that would be in uh tenants leases. What you're just saying in addition to being in the resolution, if it's approved, it'll be in leases as well. The storage and material portion that'll be in know that they're not supposed to be doing this. Yeah. I don't have a problem with the the resolution saying no outdoor storage. But will it be in leases as well? Yes, in the tenant leases. I'm having trouble hearing. I'm sorry. speaking will will it will it be placed in the tenant tenant leases? So we we're Lou is saying he's suggesting we make it a condition that it be placed in the each tenants's lease.

Leases will provide no outside storage, no flammable, no hazardous or environmentally dangerous and some other things. I'm not sure we we haven't developed or or David has not developed a lease yet, but it's going to be not to scare you away, but we don't want someone to start it. I'll be honest with I don't want we don't want a a smoke shop. Okay, which would be an illegal operation because it's not consistent with the ordinance. We would not want a business such as a uh tattoo parlor or go or something in a unit. So, so that would pieces are what we have said.

So, that would be also in the lease that there be no retail operations. I I have a question. And and so there it'll be no service facilities like no repair shop, no car repair, window tinting or anything like that or that's we have to look at it and I because I want to be honest with you. Um we're not it's nothing that's going to require it's contractor use. Okay. It's not gonna be something where we're going to expect the kids in the audience. I respect them. Where a young kid is going to come in and and look at all types of videos,

whether they're x-rayed or not, that's not the business. The business is users. Um it it could be an auto mechanic use, but no repair. It could be a wholesaler. It could be uh something of that nature. Yes. Window tint. I mean, like that's what I'm Yeah. Miss Hutchinson's comment about about auto repair. auto auto repair, truck repair, uh uh um uh you know, collision repair that is not a permitted use in the C4 zone. Okay.

Say no. I I think my limitation on auto would be an auto um a online parts. I know we're not doing auto auto repair is not a permitted use in the zone. And if you wanted to rent out one of those spaces, you'd have to go to the board of adjustment. No. For that tenant. Does that Does that include tinting, window tints, too? Uh I I I'd let the zoning officer make that decision. I don't know that that includes window tinting. I I don't know. But samples

because no auto repair. You think let's say in the old days I knew there was one up on by the diner in Edison. It's not preventing a upholsterer of either furniture or an upholsterer of automobile seat covers. That's not an order repair. That's a service and a contractor. I would drop off a piece of furniture. It would be fixed there on site. I'd go back and pick it up when it's done. I mean, these are the type of of uses we are cons that I think are going to come and knock on our door. Uh we're not doing car service. We're not doing car tire work.

It's a clean operation. And part of what we have to maintain is a clean operation. And if you know Mr. Rosenberg, he has really pretty good reputation in town. I don't, but he does. Okay. Have a seat over there. How how many witnesses do you have tonight, Mr. Stall? You don't hear. Jim, how many witnesses do you have tonight? Don't get scared. I have uh Do you want to swear to them all? Otherwise, I get too confused. Five. Okay, I'm quick. All right. Sir, could you could you raise your right hand, please? With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give Shubby the truth? I hope you got Yes, sir.

Could you state your name and spell your last name, please? David Rosenberg. Can you use the mic? Oh, sure. David Rosenberg. R O S N B U R G H. Thank you. This is yours. No, this one. That one. That's mine. No, she wants me to use this. Okay. Was you sworn in? Yes. I'm sorry. Yes. All right. Uh, David, uh, by whom are you presently employed? I am the, uh, president of KW Rastell Oil Company. I've been there since 1984. And what's the business of of Rrestle, please?

We deliver diesel fuel, um gasoline, a little bit of heating oil. We do mostly um trucking, emergency response, one of our our specialties, which we um just brought to the township. We made uh uh we have a contract with a company from Europe and we brought in renewable diesel fuel um for North Brunswick Township. It's the first township in New Jersey running um clean diesel fuel which day one reduced the carbon emissions by 70% and to this day only the the only township in New Jersey using this. Um but we we sell companies like Pepsi Coke and

what are your hours of operation right now? We're we're there 247. And when you say 247, is this solely for the emergency aspect or is it traditionally your trucks are going out at different times of the evening? Our trucks go out at different times of the evening. And on the site, although uh Mr. Duran will testify, you have the KW Rastal business. Is that correct? That's correct. You've got the oil uh delivery system and you also have other buildings there. Is that correct? That is correct. And uh it's your intent to build a contractor service facility of approximately 12 units. Is that correct? Yes, it is.

And we've been working with uh uh the township professionals 9 months to a year uh with their cooperation to develop this. Is that correct? Yes, it is. and your interest is to bring a contractor business separated by units to the 130 location. Is that correct? Yes, it is.

And you heard my introduction. Uh you're looking for contractors with various disciplines from uh uh cabinet making, plumbing, electrical. I brought up some upholstery. Uh woodworking. Uh I'm trying to think of what we use in our homes. That's what you're looking for. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct.

You understand as indicated by one of the members uh or by the attorney for the board, we will be required to put in our lease limitations, restrictions from certain uh businesses which are not permitted. for example, auto repair, uh, tattoo parsers and other non-contractor services. Is that your understanding?

Yes, it is. And you also will put in your lease the fact that we have the right to make uh inspections of the facilities on reasonable notice to ensure that the business is not being operated uh uh in contravention of municipal code and that nothing is stored in the unit which could be considered to be hazardous andor environmentally danger. You understand that?

Yes, I do. Now, that does not mean I mean if I'm using uh and I say this to you and the board, if I'm using a propane torch in the unit, uh that's not something that's normally prohibited, but the storage of extra propane tanks could certainly be uh considered to be objectionable. You understand that? Yes. Similarly, for gasoline, there may be time to time that a vehicle is parked in there as a a a forklift. Uh then again, that is permitted to be in there. You'll allow that, but we're not going to store multiple units of uh propane, and we understand that. Yes.

And as I've indicated, the garbage uh pickup, you and I had a conversation with your son Sam, and there's the issue of how we're going to provide the service at this time. You believe that you will provide recycling pickup and garbage pickup and in some fashion charge back to the units on a common area basis. Is that correct? Yes, it is.

Now, is there anything uh uh we don't know what the business will generate in terms of garbage? I assume there'll be coffee cups, paper plates, uh debris from either upholstery, uh or carpentry, and those will be garbage, which each unit of course will clean up their unit and put it in a garbage receptacle. Is that correct? Yes, it is. And have I described in my Is there anything else you want to relate to the board in connection with the proposed operation?

No, I would just like to say that I've been there since 1984. We run a business that um has the reputation of not being the cleanest business. We take a lot of pride in running a a very clean neat operation. Been been here since 1984. Um we actually have the D and EPA have used our place to show people um the proper way to store fuel um where you don't need to keep it underground. We keep all our fuel above ground. It's safe. It's in containment. It's monitored. Um and and we would just like to you to know that we plan to do the same type of thing here too. Run another clean uh operation like we did, you know, for over 40 years

now. The out parcel, I call it the out parcel because I really can't remember. Just a minute. I'll get it here. Jim, speak into the microphone. Okay. for pick the out parcel uh which is not included in the development u that's used presently for the storage of raal vehicles. Is that correct? Yes. And you understand that the restriction will be continued assuming we obtain an approval wherein the only vehicles permitted on that site are raal vehicles.

That's correct. And we are not going to be permitted uh to lease it to tractor trailers or any other uh individual or company but solely for the use of raffle. Correct. That is correct. That's all I have. Mr. Chairman, now when you say just for my own clarification, the area you're talking about storing Rascal vehicles, is that the proposed lot 8.01 in the back? That is Excuse me. Uh Mr. Stall, are do you do you have a map? We There should be a Do any of your professionals have a map of the property? Pat's asking a question about where it's going to be. We need to get We need to get a map.

Next witness, my next witness will mark and put up the uh a board. We'll work it from there. Okay. Okay. We'll wait till the board gets up.

There'll be an engineer testifying. I mean, I there there's a reason and while you're here testifying, there's a reason I asked that question is because I'm thinking it's that lot to the that lot to the rear off Corey Lane that I've seen over the years non rascal vehicles parked there like they seem to be stored. I don't recall what they were. I think they might have been uh from a car dealer or something like that that things had been stored there before that were not raal vehicles. Not from me. That that was before me. That was before.

There was a uh someone who was storing cars. Uh but that was before me. Right. Now when you say before me, what do you mean you're I there was someone that had a lease before I owned it. Before 1984, you mean? No. No. I did not own the property. Okay. Okay. You didn't own that property, but Okay. And there there's vehicles there now that we um PSCG is renting some space from us. They have some trucks and telephone poles um which is temporary. It's a year lease. Okay. But should this application go through those that that won't happen? No. Okay.

I just want to clarify something. the the application tonight and we appreciate the background on Rastel Oil and everything but the application tonight we're not uh you know we're not uh we're not granting any approvals or anything to Rastel Oil. Raster oil is a nonconforming pre-existing use that's been there and we're not our application our purview tonight is not over the rassel application some of the land that had been used for the Rassle oil trucking vehicles is being is is now becoming part of this new application but we're not granting RASL anything the right the right to do anything

agreed except and I always have an except the subdivision which is we're looking for to cut off that the reubdivision and the subdivision of anything for the parking may in fact and I'll clear that up with Bill Duran Doran when it gets on may partially be rational but no use nothing that's just a subdivision and I'll clear that up with the next witness. All right. That that just confused me more and there's not a map in front of me. So, I'm not I'm not going to ask a follow-up question on that. So, I think we need I think we need the map. We need So, we'll just move on.

I brought Mr. Rosenberg on for the purpose of operations. I almost wasn't going to put him on, but you know, he wanted to explain. Right. But for for the record, as Tom said, you're not here as a representative of Rastello Oil. You're here as a representative of ESH. I I don't know. Yes, that's correct. That's correct. All right. Okay. Yeah. Excuse me. So, so, uh, David, your your position with with ESH is what? I'm the owner. You're the owner of ESH, right? So, you're you're the you're the you're the president of KW Rrestle, but you are the owner of VSSH. That's correct. Okay. Right.

Okay. If you're ready, we'll move on. to be placed. Why don't you put it? I think Well, we got to be able The camera has to be able to see it, Jim. So, the map has to be down there so it can be picked up from the cameras over here.

Why don't you put it right? That's what we have, right? We have that. Yeah. Yeah. That should work. So, when you're ready, if you could raise your right hand, please. With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give shall be the truth? So, help God. Yes, I do. Could you state your name and spell your last name, please? Daniel Jordan. D O R A N. Daniel. Correct. Correct. And is the um Well, are we going to leave that here or do you want to put that up here? The board the board has to be where it is so it can be picked up from the camera for the vast viewing audience at home. Dan and Mr.

Your connection with what what the uh stop hold on hold on here. Oh okay. Okay. Is what you're going to show us. We have that correct? Yes it is. I have two exhibits. They're both highlighted versions. The first one is the survey which shows the existing conditions on the site and then the second uh um exhibit will be the site plan which was also submitted with the application. Okay. I I have also made uh smaller copies so that you have it in front of you as I refer to the drawing if that's okay if I could pass them out. That's fine. Okay. Mr. Stall, can we go through the qualifications before

qualifications? Yeah, we're going to get there as soon as we're Okay. See, you have an assistant. Good. Dan, use the mic. By whom are you presently employed? Jim, you have to speak into the microphone. Okay. So, you if you hold it in your hand, it'll be better because it's easy to get too far away from that. If I may, I'm a licensed engineer, land surveyor here in the state of New Jersey. I've been a member of the firm of William Dorne and Sons for over 35 years. I've previously testified in front of this board and boards similar to yours throughout the state. Is your license in full force effect as we speak? Yes. And you've appeared before this board?

Correct. And you've been qualified as a professional engineer? Yes. Agent. Okay. Mr. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Let me just Thank you. You have two boards. Is that correct? Excuse me. You have two boards? Yes. Two exhibits. And Mr. Tina has been kind enough to pass out replicas of both boards. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. And the board that you're going to look at first, what is the title block? It's the existing conditions. I marked it exhibit A1 with today's date. And that is a replica of what is already in the package before the board. Is that correct?

That's correct. The that would be found on the the survey of the site. And with regard to the second board you're going to provide, uh what is the signature block on that? That is exhibit A2 and it's a highlighted version of the site plan.

All right. Now you know Mr. Duran what I usually do. I'd like you to testify before this board as to one existing conditions, number one, number two, proposed development, and number three, any responses you have in connection with the CME report dated March 2, 2028. And I would that's the first thing you're going to do in connection with the survey is please describe the particular lots and blocks. uh what is part of this application with regard to the Rastl and ESH application for the 12 unit flex buildings and then describe what relationship if any uh the other lot has uh to RSTL and uh just demonstrate where that is and how it impacts on the site.

Very good. In order to orient yourself on the drawing as it referred to it, we have Route 130 northbound on the bottom of the page. Quarry Lane is on the top of the page. We'll utilize in directionwise that uh Route 130 travels in a north south direction. The site is technically known as block 224 lots 10, 11, 12, 12.01, and 12.02. Starting along the southerntherly boundary of the site, we have a twostory dwelling. That dwelling has two access points or two driveways out onto Route 130. There's an existing maintenance building located on the east rear side of the building itself. Lot 11 moving north has three buildings located on it. a single uh story frame dwelling that is currently used as a church, a two-story frame dwelling, and then a frame garage. Lot 12, which has frontage on Quarry Lane. Half of that lot is currently a wooded area. The westerly half of that lot has a stone surface. Lot 12.01 01 that also has a frontage on Quarry Lane that is totally a stone surface. The corner lot at 130 in Quarry Lane is 12.02. There is an existing building on that property that has been a started out as far as we can see a dwelling back in the 50s. In the 70s it was converted into a bank and then various other uses over the years. There's also an asphalt uh

parking area that has access to both Route 130 and Quarry Lane on the property. I guess the the only other thing that I would want to stress and and to point out to you when you look at this exhibit, you see where the green areas are? That's the only grass areas that these five lots have. Other than that, they're all either asphalt or heavily compacted stone throughout the entire properties. There are three existing signs on the frontage of Route 130. Um, and what the applicant is proposing to do is to remove all of the buildings that you see in blue, the five buildings that are fronting on Route 130. and they he is looking to consolidate the five lots and create the two lots that we'll be speaking about proposed lot 9.01 and 9.02. That being said, we could look at our second exhibit which is the proposed site plan. The first thing that I'd like to point out to you is the minor subdivision line. You'll see that it's highlighted in red. It starts at the southerntherly boundary of the site. It works its way around the proposed uh development of lot 9.02 2 and then before it goes north and works its way out to the northerly property line on Quarry Lane. Lot proposed lot 9.01 will encompass the existing maintenance building and the

existing stone areas that are located on the west side of this lot 9.01. The area that is existing woods will remain woods. Uh the applicant is going to be uh proposing to create a preservation area in that wooded portion of the site. The preservation area is 1.86 acres in size. Um we realize that the applicant did not ever want to um attempt to develop that. It is impacted by wetlands. uh the existing improvements are well out of the wetlands and well out of any transition areas associated with that and we said well why don't we just put it right into a conser I'm sorry a preservation easement on the site in order to protect those existing conditions proposed lot 9.02 2 was is going to be where the development takes place. And as you see, we have building A which is 26,175 square ft. It will have 7 units. Proposed building B which is 18,023 square ft and is proposed to have five units. As Mr. stall. As stated, the occupants of the units will be multi-tenant contractors. Each of the units will have a small office and the remaining portions of that unit will be utilized for the storage of equipment and supplies for those contractors. Access to proposed lot 9.02 will only be from Quarry Lane. We will have a driveway coming in on Quarry Lane and then leading right into a parking area

that is located between the two buildings. Um that parking area and the associated outline of the area will be um asphalt and concrete curbing. Each of the units will have at least two uh pedestrian vehicle parking spots and one truck parking spot. Located on the north side of the building, we have another parking area that we have labeled and will be designating as an overflow parking area. There are 22 spaces there. Again, it's an asphalt surface with cur curbing. And what the purpose of that is is that we have seen that in situations like this where you have multicontractors in units that there will be times where they may have to have a meeting with their employees or a customer. And in order to be able to accommodate that, we felt that it would be a good idea if we had additional parking. So, we put that parking on the north side of that building. A Now, we will need a variance for the distance of the driveway leading off of our main driveway to Quarry Lane. As was stated earlier, the um ordinance states that when you have a driveway in this zone and then you have another driveway coming off into your parking area, that length needs to be 100 ft. And we do not have that. But I don't believe that we should be considering this in the same light as you would if you were going into a um another use which is some somewhat similar to like a a Walmart where you're in a driveway and you're

driving leading into your parking area is to an expanse of parking spots. This is only 22 spaces that will be for people that we like to think will um for the most part be vacant and anybody coming into that area will easily be able to make that entrance into that parking area off of Quarry Lane. And when they go to exit, the intersection of those two driveways will be controlled by a stop sign. And it'll give plenty of people easily sight distances in order to be able to see anybody leaving the site or entering the site. Based on the amount of square footage of office space and storage areas that we have in both of the buildings, we are required to supply 30 parking spots. The applicant is is proposing 60. The largest vehicle that will enter this site is a one piece 30foot truck. As was stressed by Mr. Stall, there will be no outside storage of equipment or supplies. In the northeast corner of the parking area, we are proposing a trash enclosure. That enclosure will be 15 by 15. We will enclose the uh enclosure with a 6- foot high masonary wall that will match the facade of the buildings. Uh the enclosure itself will accommodate both domestic and recyclable waste. It'll be the responsibility of the owner to remove that waste as required. The site is ADA compliant and we have two EV spaces in our overflow parking area

and we will install the EV spaces as opposed to making them ready spaces. So, just for some of the new board members, that means there's a state statute that requires non-residential developments to provide spaces that are ready. EV ready meaning electric vehicle ready that lines are run there so that at some point in time they could actually you know put the electric vehicle uh um you know machinery I'm calling machine it's not a machine you know actually the the char they could actually install the charger so they're they're required by state statute to make it EV ready but Jim Watson has requested that they actually install the uh the charging stations and they've they've agreed to do that. Correct.

I agree. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Two two spaces will have uh will be EV charging spaces.

Access to the site will be 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. And what the owner is anticipating is that there will be contractors occupying these units who supply emergency services. So if I have a plumbing emergency to take care of and I need to get equipment or supplies out of my unit, I want the ability to do that. And that is the reason why we are asking this to be a 24-hour 365 day a year um facility. As far as utilities is concerned, there is water line on Quarry Lane, municipal water on Route 130 and municipal sanitary sewer on Route 130. The applicant is proposing to extend a sewer main from Route 130 through the um center of the two buildings and and extend that sewer far enough so that all the units can be serviced and uh by the municipal sanitary sewer. He will do the same thing with the water line. The water line out on Quarry Lane will be extended through the property and then uh connected again so that it's a loop line on the water line on Route 130. Uh we feel that both of these utilities will be privately owned and maintained by the owner and we do not meet meet the threshold requirements that will require the applicant to get uh any D uh permitting for both of those uh utilities.

Jim, do you agree that they do not need a treatment works approval?

Okay. As far as grading in storm water is concerned, currently the flow from the site starts at its northwest corner, comes in a southeasterly direction towards the existing wooded area on our property. The proposed conditions will maintain that existing drainage pattern. We have also designed and we will be installing a series of storm water pipes and inlets so that we can capture the water created by the proposed development. It will have an outflow um in the stone area and it will be before the existing tree line that is on proposed lot 9.01. The outfall is onto the stone area or the outfall is into the uh preservation area.

No, no, no. The the outfall the the pipe that will direct all the water that is collecting the drainage from the parking area in the buildings

will eventually empty um just prior to the tree line and it will empty into the wooded area preservation area. All of the proposed utilities that the applicant has shown on the plans will be installed in accordance with the township specifications and details. As far as signage is concerned, the applicant is proposing a freestanding sign up in the northeast corner of the building on the corner of the site. The sign itself will be 20 feet from the right ofway line on Route 130. The sign will the bottom of the sign will be elevated 4 feet above ground surface. The sign itself will be five feet high, 8 ft wide. The top three feet will have the name of the proposed development on it. Uh there will be ground spotlights in order to illuminate that sign. And the bottom two feet, the applicant is proposing a digital sign. Any message that is shown on that digital board will have a minimum time of being stagnant of three minutes. The digital sign will be operational from 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. every day. The applicant is proposing to install a six- foot high chainlink fence along the northerly border of the existing stone area. That chain link fence will have a black privacy fabric attached to it just to help prevent any visual impact into that stone area. I should point out that uh the owner over the years people have I'll say

abused that wooded area before this area was protected. People will be driving in and dumping just about anything and everything into that wooded area. And the owner has painstakingly and spent a lot of time, energy, and money in clearing all that debris out of that wooded area. So he wants to close off and prevent that from continuing to happen. As far as landscaping is concerned, the area that is along the frontage of Route 130 will be heavily landscaped with shade trees, a variety of shade trees, evergreens, and a variety of flowering shrubs. The area that is to the north and west of the proposed overflow parking will also be screened from Quarry Lane and Route 130 again with a variety of shade trees, evergreens, and shrubs. The trash enclosure will have a dense row of evergreens around the outside of it um buffering that. And we are also proposing to have a dense row of evergreens from the fence to the quarry lane uh right ofway line in order to buffer that area. Again, it has been recommended that the area in the back or the west side of building A have an increase in landscaping. The the applicant agrees to that. and also on along the east side of building B. As far as lighting is concerned, there'll be proposed wall mount and freestanding polemounted lights that will be LED lights and will meet the minimum standards as required by the ordinance.

The site's located in the C4 non-restrictive commercial zone of the town and there are a number of variances that the applicant is seeking and I just want to point out on where those uh variances are located and can be found. Building A to the right ofway line on Route 130 is required to be 75 ft. The applicant is proposing 52.5 ft. From the southerntherly boundary, the uh what's it? The southwest corner of building A is 40.9 ft. Building B where is where is that dimension? Where is

this corner? The southwest corner of building A in relationship to the southerntherly boundary line is 40.9 ft. Building B is 20.2 feet from the northerly boundary line of Quarry Lane. The existing maintenance building that has one of its corners is 8.5 ft to the southerntherly boundary line.

Could you could you just do do me a favor? Can you go back starting with the first uh the building A and you you quoted the proposed distance. What is the required distance when you

okay in in in this zone every building is required to be 75 ft from the perimeter of the site. Okay. So that's the the standard that we were asked to maintain. And as I said, building A is 52.5 ft from the Route 130 rightway line, 40.9 ft from the southerntherly boundary. Building B is 20.2 ft from the northerly boundary line of the site and then the existing building is 8.5 ft from the southerntherly boundary. We're in receipt of Mr. Watson's memo dated March 2nd of this year and we have no problem in providing the information that he has requested with anything that we haven't already shown on the plans or that we have testified to here this evening.

Question. Well, then if you look at the subdivision plan, the survey, what properties are involved in the subdivision uh with the N subdivision? All five lots are involved in it. We we will be consolidating those five lots, lots 10, 11, 12, 12.01, and 12.02, and then creating two new lots from there. a minor subdivision creating proposed lot 9.01 and 9.02. Now 9.02 includes the two buildings parking and accessory uses. Is that correct?

Yes. Now proposed lot 9.01. What does is that comprised of? What lots or portion of lots that has portions of lot 10 1201. Now those lots that you have just described who owns those lots. And who owns the existing 9.01 proposed? Is that ESH?

Yes, it is. So some of the property which is being taken from the ESH property uh belongs to ESH obviously. Is that correct? Yes. So there is impact. We're changing the configuration of the proposed lot 901 and 902. Correct. That's correct. Yes. They are two new lots. 901 and 902 are proposed lots. They are newly created lots through this minor subdivision. But they don't affect the operation of K. Rastl. Is that correct? That's correct.

But in in truth, if be told, they they affect the overall property owned by ESH. Correct. What does that mean? It means that they're taking I I just I want to clear up any misunderstanding. As Dan, the whole site is owned by ESH. Is that correct? Yes. Some of the property that we are taking from the lots that you have described were were they part of the rastal usage? Jim

Tom Vner asked is there any involvement of RASL I've strike that in the ESH in the overall development the answer is that the property being used for RSL trucks has nothing to do with the proposed development. Is that correct? Yes. All right. That's that's the answer. So that property with the 61 vehicles to be parked in, that's Rastl property as is the remaining Rastal property. Correct? Yes.

Right. And there's no reason that Rastl had to be a party to this application. The only party to the application of importance was ESH who owns and controls the entire site. Is that correct? Yes. Thank you. Mr. Mr. Stall, you're going to have another expert testify about that that relationship, I believe, right? Yeah. The guy waving his hand. Well, I Mr. Tina will I know he's he gets very excited. I I met him years ago in the Howdy Duty show. No, I'm excit I have Can I Can I just Yeah. No,

it might be the same question. I don't know. He's not going any place. Jim, can you explain to me h how this drainage, this storm water drainage is proposed to work on this site?

So, they are uh installing inlets throughout the uh 9.02 lot that then gets collected. There's a pipe that travels through a easement, a utility easement that they are proposing towards 9 the 9.01 lot. Then it'll go to a head wall and a rip wrap apron and it'll directly discharge towards the wetland area. But my understanding is it's out of the wetlands and it's out of the wetland transition area. My my you know when you look at this um layout my question is is that going to have any kind of effect on that property uh looking at this sheet I guess that would be to the south more or less that property behind the the newly created lot line at the you see where the trees end and you have another property back there I mean you're discharging all that water

got stone run is that going to have any effect on that property If if I may just help help you there with just one thing and not to interrupt, but the way that we were able to demonstrate and the reason why I went through the existing conditions is because the proposed conditions has less impervious coverage than the existing, right?

And when we have less impervious coverage, we create less water being generated and flow coming off of our property. So the the flow coming off the property always does always did flow in this direction into our wooded area and it will continue to do that. There will be a less rate of flow going in that direction though. You you're you're telling me the proposed development will result in less impervious coverage. Correct.

And correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. D. That's why you showed us two maps because on the first map on the first map the green area is is the area that's pvious and then on the proposed map is the area that's going to be pvious and you're telling us that there's more pvious surface on the proposed that's correct map than there is an existing situation but when you don't think about it but so much of it Some of it's paved, some of it's hard stone. Well, stone is pious. So, yeah, I don't know. Well, and depends.

Mr. Means, just to, you know, um talk about that a little more, one of our comments is really asking for calculations of these different areas for them to prove out to us that that what exactly is impervious, what's pvious, so we can look at existing versus proposed. And yeah, that's kind of that's kind of my question. We think Yeah, we're in agreement, but we're some of our comments are show us the the data the

because my thought process is if the if the existing condition was as more pvious uh then that storm water that exists there today is obviously going to be spread out and absorbed over those stone areas before it even gets to the the treated area. as opposed to when you collect it now in a pipe and you send it out in, you know, one large amount into that wooded area. Uh so I I guess what I'm getting at is what you're saying. Yes. We need numbers to prove that there is now going to be uh less impervious. Yes. Than Yeah. Okay. So they're gonna pro you're going to provide We have no problem with that. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And Jim, you said you believe you think that that they can probably show that, but they need to put it on paper, right? Okay. Okay. That's what did you have a question or is that was

Yeah. No, no, I did I did have a question. Um, can you just describe Mr. Darn looking at the map of the proposed map? You talked about all the parking spaces they were. Can you just show us on on that color-coded map in front of the buildings there's like beige light beige colored areas and there's gold areas and there's grayish areas. What's what's in this in this second colored map that Mr. Teen what does where are the parking spaces in front and where where are the truck parking and what is every what is that in between the buildings the you'll be referring to a-2 yes

correct ahead the gray areas are asphalt and they will be providing the pedestrian parking areas are the truck parking spots for each of the units they will be concrete material and then the tan hatched areas That's areas that we don't want anybody parking in. When you have uh contractors loading their trucks and getting in and out of their unit, we wanted to give them that area there to be able to maneuver on each side of their truck to be able to get their supplies out of the building. So the tan areas are I'll call them dead spaces.

Okay. So when when you said so you I think you said that the ordinance requires 30 spaces but you have 60. When I counted up just quickly the gray spaces I didn't come to 60 spaces. No you probably came to 49 and then we have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 truck spaces. Count the truck spaces. count count the truck spaces as as a portion of our parking spots. Okay. So, you th those the the beige truck spaces are are also some of the parking space. That's correct. That's how we get to our 60.

Okay. Um I think Ed uh just one other uh one other question. Um, and maybe maybe this question maybe this question is should have been for Mr. Rosenberg or for your planner, but um Mary might have mentioned something about early on no retail or or whatever, but but the zone does permit retail. So I I your application tonight for these flex spaces I are are are you re are you stating on the record that there will be no retail or are you saying well we have enough parking spaces uh you know I mean or or you stating on the record tonight that there will be no retail because retail is a permitted use but if you had trouble leasing ing one of them. Are you restricting it? Are you are we prohibiting or are we approving this tonight if we do subject to no retail

condition? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or is that you are you leaving open an option in which case we'd have to look at the amount of parking to make sure you had parking for some retail?

And Mr. Mr. Va, I think one way that we could look at at that and answer your question, anybody who comes into any of these units and the applicant will have to go through a tenency review prior to that applicant occupying that unit. So there'll be a lot of things that will be brought to the attention of the zoning official and it will be determined whether or not it meets the requirements of a permitted use in the zone and and can the site accommodated due to parking and the type of storage that would be there. Let me let me expand on what Dan said using my example of a upholsterer either a motor vehicle or you have grandma's old uh saté I don't know what that is really but I know that there and you're going to take that to the upholsterer who has a location on this site you're going to drop it off he's going to fix it you're going to come back you're going to pick it up or make arrangements for he or she to deliver it. I submit to you that is a retail that's not wholesale. That is a retail use. Or if I contract with the carpenter to make me a beautiful bookcase for my daughter going away to school and then I I tell him or her what I want and I get it. That is retail. And I have to say that Dan is correct. you know that we're going to have to do a tenency review to Mr. Pace. Depending on the results of that, he will make a determination whether it is within the ordinance and has the appropriate parking. I don't want to prohibit it. I don't want to agree to that because I don't know what these contractors are going to do. What last thing, what what

if the plumber sells water softeners and uh uh someone comes in, Mr. Rosen, Mr. Rubenstein comes in and he wants to buy a water softener to be installed in his house. Is that a retail or is that a wholesale? That is a retail sale, sales and use, etc., etc. And I'm not making an argument, Tom. You and I always joust a little bit and I respect it, but that is a retail use.

Okay. I I would suggest that Mr. PvAI would not deci determine that that's a retail sales business. But uh but the bottom line is retail requires five parking spaces right for every,000 square feet. You know you have about 40ome thou 40,000 square feet and some change which are one you know five per thousand would require 200 parking spaces. So you have 60. So um you know in all likelihood you will not be having a retail operation there. So you know I I might have been Mary who earlier on I was you me suggest retail but I was

if if I am a if I am a um a an owner and I do window tent because you know this is the type of spaces that they would come in you know small I have a small business I do window tent. So here you have this building coming in. So how would you handle that? I I have vehicles that are coming that need to get their their tenting done. So you mean like a blind like a blinds to go or something which window car window tinted. Okay. I have a vehicle that I want to get my my windows tinted or I want to change my window or I want to wrap my car. Okay. and I'm gonna come to this facility and you know how

well we would have to look on them at a case by case now I don't know whether Tom's going to agree with me but I've been involved in that in fact in this township in the past so I have a five unit strip center five units I have parking enough for five all of a sudden I get a urgent care or a doctor or a restaurant who consumes by ordinance more parking than I have. I then tell my client, by the way, you're not using that sixth unit because you don't have enough parking. If you want to use the sixth unit or the fifth unit, I'm sorry, you're going to have to go for a variance to show that you have the parking. And that's what Tom, I think, is saying. You have to look at each use and how many parking spaces are required. If I use them all up on my count, then I may not get a CO for other units. It's it is a question and and I I respect it. Depends on how many people are going to come. It's not a um you may not want to use that for retail purposes because you don't have that much space. You have an office and you have a workshop. So it's not as if you have a large area so you can have storage sales office. All right. Ju just one last clarification on that with respect to auto uses and I don't know the answer Mary but we do not permit auto auto repair. We don't permit collision repair but I I don't have the answer whether Mr. Pacei might consider tinting. that might just be a service a service use. So I don't know the a answer on that. Okay. But I do know that retail requires much more intensive parking and there are some areas in town where there's

retail and office and they require you know retail requires a little more but this is a drastic difference. Your parking standard Mr. Adram was based on warehouse. Correct. and warehouse requires much less parking than retail. So to me, it would be impractical to bring in a retail use because a 4,000 square ft space would require 20 spaces. So it might be might not be unreasonable for us to state that there can be no retail use there. No, no retail business. A business that's

we're not going to shop the retail use. It's really going to be, as we've indicated, a contractor function. But if someone comes in, as I said, on a buy something, you know, I'm I'm going to drop my comment for now. I don't want to discuss this anymore right now. We'll move we'll move on. Okay. Okay. Um, if I if I can just back up to the truck issue about the 30-foot trucks that you're going to be using for deliveries. Um,

is there going to be a restriction that you can truck sizes are limited? And I I asked this question because I was a contractor, electrical contractor for over 40 years. And there was plenty of occasions, not all the time, but plenty of occasions where we had switch gear delivered, generators delivered. They came on right fullsize 18-wheel tractor trailers. They won't be able to come into this site. The site cannot accomplish. Yeah, that Well, that's my that's my issue. I don't want to I don't want to see them, you know, going down Quarry Lane and trying to back into that entrance and

potentially hitting vehicles that are in that parking lot. So my point being, are you are you going to place a restriction in in the in the resolution as to the size of the trucks that are going to be able to access this property? Yes, I I believe the applicant would agree to that. Okay. So just to restate that you're willing to accept or place a restriction on the size of the vehicle that can come in. No tractor trailers, delivery vehicle, correct?

Yeah. in in the in the development in the new development I mean whatever is allowed in the other parking area we're not even discussing yes no tractor trailers uh I would want the and I decision I gota uh I think we would want what about deliveries I don't anticipate tractor trailers making deliveries well that's what I'm saying I mean we well I know that I mean it's not going to be in andout tractor trailers I have no problem and I don't think Mr. Rosenberg does limiting this limiting the size. If if the someone delivers by tractor trailer, they won't they'll have to break up the uh supply and bring it in in two, you know, box trucks or or vans.

Right. So my what I'm getting at is you you you stated about a 30 foot box truck. I mean we we state that in the resolution that No, we have no problem with that. Okay. That's fine. Do we have any other questions, Tom? Anybody? I just wanted to know about the the lighting. Um you had mentioned that you the well because of there's across the street there's housing and there's you know the um is a senior there's yeah 55 and older across. Do is the illumination going to be such

Absolutely not. No, the the only illumination that we have on the rear of building A is because we have doorways there, man doors. So, there'll be wall-mounted lights. It'll be about 9 ft in the air and but well before that illumination even hits the rightway on Route 130. It will be, you know, zero illumination and you're going to have some landscaping along that behind that building anyway. Correct. Yes, we do. Heavily landscaped. Right. Right. Anyone else questions? Go ahead.

I just had a question. Maybe we covered it. Forgive me if we did, but the fencing, you know, um you're you're looking for the variance. Um for six foot fence, it's not allowed to exceed four feet in the front yard. Could you just show where the fencing is and discuss that for us? It will be along the northerly side of the existing stone area. It'll start at the northeast corner of building B and then run parallel to Quarry Lane right across the entire uh frontage of that portion of the site. As as long as we're talking about the fencing, you mentioned that you're going to have a fabric cover on the

That's correct. Yeah. Um it'll be a privacy black material and then we will also have the dense row of evergreens in between that fence and quarry lane too. Now this is going to be basically a chain link fence that you're going to have a fabric.

Yes. You would you won't want to put privacy inserts like metal inserts through that chain link fence. I think that would hold up much better than the the fabric. My concern is over time that fabric's going to be tattered and start to fall apart and look and look terrible. I mean I just think I think a metal inserts in the just more durable it'll it'll hold applicant will agree to that. Okay that's fine. So metal metal inserts in the chain metal metal inserts. Yeah. Uh okay. Anyone else have questions? Good. Okay. Thank you.

I thought you said this was going to be quick. Oh, we're going to pick up the We are going to pick up the Raise your right hand and be sworn, sir. With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give Shelby the truth to help you? Yes. Could you state your name and spell your last name, please? William Doran, D O R A N. Thank you. registered architect in the state of New Jersey uh with a current license since 1987. I've been an expert witness in front of this board and many others throughout the state. And your license in full force in effect? Yes. Thank you. We'll accept be qualified. We'll accept them. Thank you.

Bill, you were engaged by the applicant to provide architectural services and renderings of the proposed building. Is that correct? That's correct. Now, how many board How many boards do you have? One. One. Uh, and that's going to be A3. Yes. And what is the signature block? Excuse me. The block of A3. It's a rendering. There is no signature block. All right. So, it's a render. It's in my back. So, I don't see. All right. So, it's a rendering prepared by your office. Is that correct? Yes.

All right. So would you please describe to us what the proposed uh elevations construction material and if you have it a sample floor plan of a unit.

Well as as has been has been uh testified we have two buildings here. One is 26,000 square ft. The other is 18,000 square ft. Um they are they're approximately cut into uh 3 to 4,000 square foot units. Um we've worked uh very hard uh and in conjunction with your uh township professionals to um conform to the C4 non-restricted commercial district uh elevation standards. uh which include a um enhanced entry area which you see on either side of that building uh there in the rendering. Um they each have uh higher roof lines. The main uh building height is predominantly 32 feet. These uh projection these project up another two feet on both the corners and in the intermediate um entry areas. They're designed to uh break up the horizontal um horizontality of the entire building and the u brakes are in accordance with the uh ordinance requirements. Uh we've designed that uh elevation with glass on both the first and second floors. Again, there's a certain um amount that's required by by ordinance and we've met we've exceeded that. Uh we have flat roof canopies above the entrance areas and some of the spandel

glass areas. Uh you can see those here uh with those light blue lines uh across the front of the building. Again, there's a minimum requirement and we've exceeded that requirement for the uh length of the canopies.

Can you just point out where the canopies are? We don't have architectural plans in our packet. Where are the canopies? Could you just point out? And this is the frontage. Just want to point out to everybody this is a frontage along Route 130 even though the businesses are going to be accessed from the driveway. So I just want you to realize this is above and beyond. We the our ordinance requires these architectural standards on any side of the building that fronts a a highway. So this is not the typical rear of a bu, you know, it's it's a little unusual in that respect. looks like the front of the building, which it is the front on Route 130, but it's actually the back of the building for everybody that's using.

So, so you'll never see you'll never see the back of a building along a highway that looks like this. This is really upgraded. Can you show where those are? So, the the canopies are these light blue lines. I know it's a little hard to see uh in these uh enhanced entry elements. Uh you can see them here across all the way across the building. Those are be a flat roof canopy with uh cable uh supports back to the building.

Right. And just one other thing you mentioned just for the board's edification. You mentioned spandre glass. These standards we designed for ma for the main street to have a main street type of look. So there's requirements for a certain percentage of glass, you know, from from ground level to 10 feet above a building. You have to have a certain percentage of glass like a main street, like a downtown Matuchin look or something now that we've got here. So when you mention spandrel glass, there's glass you can see going way up on the ends. Spandro glass looks like glass, but you can't see through it. Correct. That's correct.

Right. So, it looks like as you're driving past that we've got a bunch of glass windows there, but they could have racks. We're not limiting their use as a warehouse. They could have metal racks going all the way up towards the roof on the inside. So, it's not limiting the use of the building, even though we're getting that really nice glass look on the outside. That's correct.

Where's the construction material going to be, Bill? Uh the primarily stucco but not any not smooth stucco. Uh all the uh stucco will be scored. Uh all the paint colors will conform. The ordinance has uh various paint colors and all the colors that we're using will conform to those requirements. Uh there's a requirement for the top of the building to be detailed. So, we have a stucco cornice detail running across the top of the building with a uh complimentary uh we're using this this blue color a lot, but we've we've added that to the underside of the cornice to enhance that uh cornice uh or the top of the building. Same is true at the bottom of the building. The ordinance requires a 4 foot of material at the base. And I know it's very hard to see on this uh rendering. It's it's a lighter color, but uh there there'll be a 4ft base of stone there. Again, uh meeting the requirements of the ordinance. Again, again, if I could just jump in, I appreciate this because the most of the board members here, Pat might be the only board member who was here or how Patton Howie, when we approve certain areas of the transit village, there's going to be a stone base, a 4ft stone base along along this and at least two foot corners along the top. as you're driving along a warehouse development in North Brunswick as you've come up into North Brunswick. So,

good job. Um, and Bill, each unit will have its own HVAC system, water service, and sanitary service. Is that correct? Yes.

And uh I don't have to ask anything else about the design that Mr. Vner appears agrees that you've gone far above and beyond which is the way we feel. There is one other thing that we should just put on the record is is that the ordinance also requires some relief on the uh the building so it's not all flat all the way across. So one of them is to have a 7 and 1/2 foot projection which also affects our front yard setback there off of Route 130. Um so so we have a seven and a half foot projection on both ends of the building which affects that uh that front yard setback and then periodically at certain distances I can get it for you but we do meet the ordinance on those distances as well. We need to break up that elevation further which we have. Yeah. And again, if I this one this one affects one of one of their variances. So, I need to point this out. The the applicant when they were initially coming in and trying to determine how far to set back the building, they were initially looking closer. We said, "No, you got to go back more in conformance with what the setbacks are on the highway." And I think their planner will be justifying to that. But then we had so they they got to a point but then the ordinance requires you can't see it from that map really but it's it's a plane projector so it can't be a flat building. You can only the building can't go straight without bumping out. So they had to bump out after a certain distance 7 and 1/2 ft to so it doesn't have that long flat look like you've seen other big box buildings have. So that that area in blue on the end came comes out 7 and 1/2 ft. So they initially were looking at a 60-foot variance and then to to meet the requirements of our architectural

standards rather than asking for a variance on the architectural standards there they reduced their their setback by 7 and 1/2 ft which professional staff suggested was the better way to go that the architectural appeal would be greater than you know we'll lose the seven feet on those two ends to get the bump out and the better architectural feel and the the applicants architect was tremendous. We worked for months on this, right? It's that's correct. Unusual standards. Yes. Very unusual. I I But look what you have. It's going to look great. Yeah. If we approve it, I have a question. Can I Can I speak?

Sure. Absolutely. Okay. Uh, one thing um, for the AC units where your mechanical the condensers will be up on the roof. They'll be hidden up there. You won't be able to see them from the street. Okay. And as far as the noise and stuff, it shouldn't be No, it'll be up the road. You'll have a lot more road noise than from those. They'll be pretty quiet. Okay. And then the other thing, since this is the back of the building, I do see that there are um doors, exit, I'm assuming, exit doors or emergency exit doors that are there. Yes. Are are there any is there any walkway path um any

um they sidewalk anything for when they if there is an emergency, they have to exit out of there, how would they, you know? Well, for emergency exits, I think what's required is just a pad at the door and then you can get out onto the grass. So there each of these are individual units. So it's not as if this is a long So I can either go out the front door or I go out the back door. But if it's an emergency, in an emergency once you get out that door, you're on the ground. You got to go out the back. So I'm just curious if they go out the back, how do they, you know, maneuver, get out of the back, and then get to a safe area? Do they just walk on the grass? Yes. Yes. Okay.

I mean, I I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's going to be a a normal use, that door. It's just really for emergency purposes. Yes. Hopefully. Right. Never. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Anybody else on the board have any questions? Sure. Go ahead. um in terms of them you know that exit uh and walking on the grass is I'm assuming I don't know if this is the right expert or not as far as drainage and stuff as far as is there any drains or anything there so that you know because of the grass gets saturated or if it's raining and there's something just curious

I just realized you're you're walking in heels that's on wet grass which I didn't anticipate Um, it could be snowing and then out of out of here and then how do they get from So I I think just like in every other uh facility in the township and every township, okay, we're required to do a certain amount, right? We I think we have a pad outside the door. We are not required to put a walkway out there. Okay. But the building owner is required to maintain that. Yes. And so last week when we had a foot and a half of snow, that needs to be maintained somehow. Uh, and but that's only clearing the pad though. I mean,

no, it it I don't think it would be. No, I think Listen, if you use that door two weeks ago in an emergency, you'd be walking through snow. Yeah, that's what would happen. The front side the front side. Yeah, I get and I realize you might not be able to go that way about the backside and that if there's any emergency there's there's how do they maneuver to get from there you know to a safe I I think spot and you got like two foot of snow and you know did they just on that little pad and wait very similar to all all the rest of the buildings in the township. All right. Okay. Anyone else? Okay, let's move on.

John, raise your right hand, please. Thank you. With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give shall be the truth? I hope you got it. I do. Could you state your name and spell your last name, please? John Ray, R EA. Mr. Ray, please give us your qualifications.

Uh, sure. I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. My field of specialty is traffic engineering. Have a total of 50 years experience in the traffic engineering field. Uh, my license is current. I have testified in North Brunswick before, but it's been some time. All right. You were engaged by the applicant to testify in connection with ingress and egress and as well as circulation within the site. Is that correct? Yes. All right, sir. Please. And we prepared a traffic impact study. Did it Excuse me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Did we do the qualifications? He Yeah. Oh, you He was very quick.

You You were speaking to Mary when he gave his qualifications. He'd been a traffic engineer for 50 years in New Jersey. I've known Tom for a long time. That's enough. Forget about it. Okay. Don't admit to 50 years. It shows us some experience in age. I'm a licensed professional engineer. I do traffic studies and I've appeared here before in the past. Thank you. It's been a while. I appreciate it. Thank you.

So, we did do a traffic impact analysis for the project. Um I think Mr. Dorian uh testified to this. I'm not sure. It seems like it's been a long time ago, but we are closing the existing curb cuts along Route 130, which is going to be a benefit to the property. The only access to the property will be off of Quarry Lane. So, we are closing off all the access from Route 130. Our firm did traffic counts at the intersection of Route 130 and Quarry Lane. Uh, the peak hour in the morning occurred between 7:45 and 8:45 in the morning. In the afternoon, the peak hour occurred between 5 and 6:00 p.m. Based on the size of the buildings and the breakdown of storage and office space and utilizing the Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual, which the DOT makes us use, Middle Sex County makes us use. We are projecting that the project will generate 15 a.m. peak street hour trips and 17 pm peak street hour trips. That's the amount of traffic that will be generated consistent with the peak hour at the intersection of Route 130 and Quarry Lane. It's not how much traffic will be gener generated throughout the course of the day. Only during that one concentrated peak hour of traffic flow at Route 130 and Quarry Lane, which is what traffic engineers use to determine the impact of a project, we look at the peak hour impact. So essentially what you're talking about is approximately one vehicle entering or leaving the property every four minutes during a peak hour. Pretty minimal impact but an impact nonetheless. Okay.

One of the things that we looked at and it's in Mr. Watson's review letter. We calculate what we call levels of service which relate to the delay that motorists experience when they're entering the highway. The intersection of Route 130 and Quarry Lane has a median break. It's got a left turn lane for southbound Route 130 traffic turning left onto Quarry Lane. Left turns onto Route 130 from Quarry Lane and right turns are permitted. And during the afternoon peak hour, because of the heavy traffic flow on Route 130, the calculation that we do shows that that left turn movement is going to experience more than 50 seconds of delay in order to make the left turn during the afternoon peak hour. It's what we call level of service F conditions. F is not failure. It's just delay in excess of 50 seconds. However, having been to the site and watching the traffic flow on Route 130, we have traffic signals. We're about halfway between the traffic signals to the north at Renaissance Boulevard and to the south at Finnegan's Lane and David's Davidson's Mill Road. Those signals provide gaps in the traffic flow. The site distance is excellent along Route 130. I've sat and I've watched the traffic flow and it's my opinion that based on the amount of traffic that we're generating and the gaps that are available during peak hours that are created by the traffic signals, our traffic flow will continue to be safe and efficient as it has been for the years that the Rastal Oil Company has been on the site and North Brunswick Department of Public Works is down the end of Quarry Lane. They use the intersection as well. With respect to the parking, Mr. Dorne went over the numbers. We are providing a little bit in excess of what we expect we're going to need. I think he gave a good rational explanation of why that's the case. We have that separate overflow parking lot up towards Quarry Lane where people can stage their vehicles if they have to go in, talk to a contractor, make a visit

to take a look at a product or something of that nature. So, I do think uh you know we meet the township's ordinance requirement with respect to parking. I'm in favor I'm always in favor of providing a little bit of extra parking if we can do it and in this case we can. Uh that basically summarizes it. Got anything? I think I would revise the formula. I know you guys use a peak hour but in this part of the state it should be a peak three hours. Yeah. Well there's no way there's a peak for an hour. I get it. I'm I'm joking. And Mr. chairman at you know between 4 and 5 instead you know we'll probably generate very close to the same amount of traffic but uh

what happens is the peak hours get elongated as the traffic flow increases right sometimes uh there are constraints on on a highway and the peak hour just expands. Yeah. Yeah, I understand. Okay. Anybody have questions? No. Ju just one comment with regard to the DOT. You do have to apply for the access permit and you think they will look favorably upon this as it's going to limit the consolidate all the access on 30 and have one driveway on quarry. Don't expect any problem from the DOT. It actually won't be an access permit, Jim. It'll be a highway occupancy permit to just close the curb cuts on Route 130 and they'll approve that. Thank you.

Makes sense. Okay. Anyone? Jim, didn't you say you want does your report require you want to see something on turning radiuses or or circulation? Site engineer. We're going to look for some uh site circulation for the design vehicles that that SU30 truck can can circulate the site. So, that's one of our comments. They agreed to provide that. Okay. So, that's something that Mr. Ray wouldn't be addressing. That's something that Mr. Dorne will be addressing within another submission with a figure be a subject to subject to submitting traffic circulation for the design size vehicle.

Correct. Okay. Thank you. Our attorney hasn't. Now, Mr. Ray, I'm assuming that there are no issues with uh emergency vehicles accessing the side fire. I don't know if the plans have been submitted to your emergency services people. Usually, they are and they comment on it. I don't know if Mr. Dorren have you gotten any comments from them or but uh I mean the plans are basic they're typical of what we would expect. Um fire department had no no parent. Yeah, there there is actually now we just saw there is a report from Salvador Georgiana the fire fire chief saying that they do not have any comment on it other

on the on the plan. Oh, there was some there was some comment on fire connections, but that's fire emergency water connection. Yeah, that was from the water company, right? Yeah, I think so. Not fire. But that is also covered in our site circulation plan comment like delivery trucks, garbage trucks, fire trucks, and other emergency vehicles. So, a a fire truck basically has the same turning radius as an SU30 single unit, 30 foot wheelbase. So, if an SU30 truck can make the turn, the fire truck can make it, too. Okay. Any other? Thank you. We can move on.

I clean up my cleanup batter. I can't call him number 99, but he certainly does hit home runs on occasion. John, why don't you raise your right hand, please? With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give shall be the truth to help your God? I do. Uh, state your name. Spell your last name, please.

Hi, John Tyena. T is in Thomas. A I, K is in Kelly, I N is in Nicholas A. I'm a licensed planner in the state of New Jersey. Have since I completed my studies at Ruckers University in 1992. I spent the last 33 years doing this, testifying for planning and zoning boards around the state and across the country on behalf of applicants just like this. I was last here uh a year and a half ago and um I've been in the town since 2005. Okay, we're good. We'll accept them. We know them and

I'm sure we all do. But, uh, John, you know the drill. You were engaged by the applicant to provide a report on the variances listed by Mr. Doran. Uh, and you have them yourself, so please provide your report and your opinion. Certainly, I'm I'm a little bit at a disadvantage. I'm the 33year rookie on the crew. So,

I'm sorry. What's that? I have the least experience out of all the experts that are testifying tonight. And uh I've only been doing it 33 years. So in any event, we are here to talk about the application from a planning standpoint. Uh working with this team is uh all of us from Newman Road, by the way. So that Doran's grew up down the block from where I live now. So Mr. Ray was the outlier that he didn't, you know, grow up on Newman Road for the last 35 years. But in any event, um we uh we are here uh to talk about it from a planning standpoint. Uh we have a minor subdivision that will create two lots. We will have lot 9.01 that will contain a storage building, a permitted use in the district, and associated parking. We have lot 9.02 2 that will uh contain two uh flex warehouse buildings 26,175 ft and 18,023 square ft with associated parking um on a 3.23 acre lot. Both of those lots are conforming in terms of size uh dimensions etc. Um so all of our uh all of our uses are good. We have permitted uses on 9.01 1 a storage building and parking permitted uses on 9.02 to flex warehouse buildings. We uh do require some relief uh for our site plan that is proposed. Uh first we have a setback variance and and Dan did a nice job of explaining exactly where they are. First we have a setback variance of 52 and a half feet uh from Route 130. Um secondly, we have a setback variance of 40 feet uh from our southern boundary uh that goes to that is in between lots 9.01 and 9.02

and we have a uh a 20 foot 20.2 foot setback on Quarry Lane where that requirement is also 75 square feet. So we're a little hamstrung. We have two frontages that are very long and we have uh we're subdividing between them. So, um, we're a little hamstrung by the by the ordinance. The ordinance was created for very large uses. That's why it's 75 75 foot setbacks, etc. When we're putting in these more moderately scaled uses, uh, we kind of run up against that 75 foot uh, setback uh, requirement. Um, and our final variance is we have two two additional, excuse me, we have an existing building that's 8.5 ft from our southern property boundary. That's the storage building on lot 9.0. 101. And then we have an open fence that is uh 6 feet tall along Cory Lane uh that will have metal um privacy slats in them in lie of the proposed um in lie of the proposed fabric. Um each of these instances are what I'm calling as C2 variants. Uh I believe that um they're either there we can't be C1. I re I recognize that we're we have an odd shaped property of all those things, but we're putting new things on it. We're drawing our own subdivision lines. So, we need to meet the standard for a C2 variance. Um the standards that you need to meet there, uh there's kind of four of them. First and foremost, we relate to a specific piece of property.

Hey, John. John. Yes. Um we have some new board members. Could you just before you explain the difference between a C1 and a C2 bulk variance? We have a number of new board members over the last year. So, you bet the over on how long I was going to talk tonight. Okay.

Um, thank you. So, there are two types of variances. A C1 variance is what's usually called a hardship variance. That would be something that related specifically to either the shape of the property or the physical features that exist thereon. So, for example, we could say that the the setback of the storage building to our southern property line that exists at 8.9 ft, that could be considered a C1 variance because that's an existing condition that we're seeking to continue. The rest of our variances um would be a C2 variance where again they're they're us saying here planning board, we think this represents a better planning alternative or a better plan than would be a compliant plan. So, for example, we think it's more appropriate to place the building at 52 1/2 ft with the appropriate um architectural embellishments that are there as opposed to pushing it all the way back to 75 ft because of the of the physical features of our adjacent property owners. So, Tom talked about it where when you're looking at where you put the building, we wanted to look at where everything else is along Route 130. So, as we go down to our south, our building immediately to the south of us, the principal building on KW Rastl is at about 55 ft. You go to the next building, and that's the the former uh restaurant that's there. Um that's at about 35 ft. And then you go down to the um auto body place, the collision repair place, that's the next building down, that's at about 30 feet. So we felt that um being at 52 1/2 ft with the appropriate architectural treatments represents a better planning alternative for that front setback both along both from our our southern property line from Route 130 and from Cory Lane. So, we kind of wanted to make sure we balanced

all of our different uh property conditions and we met uh really up with with what our neighbors are doing and we'd be able to fit in. Um so, uh the findings for this are are from a case called Calfman V. Warren in 1987. Again, I only mentioned case law because they provide road maps to a good decision. So, they said you you have to make four findings. One, that it relates to a specific piece of property. Secondly, do we advance some of the purposes of zoning?

John, again, just because there's new members, could you just slow that because we're going to be hearing this on a dime, so could you please slow that down? There's four different standards you're saying that could be used for that. Could just explain them a little bit. We have new members. I'm Yes. asking you to make it a little more understandable. So,

yes, I'm Tom. I'm going to list them first and then I'm going to explain them. Okay. So, the first one is a specific piece of property. The second one is that we advance some of the purposes of zoning. The third is that it is a better planning alternative and the benefits of granting it outweigh any potential detriments. And finally, it is the negative criteria that as with any of your variances that we don't have a substantial detriment to the public good, so we don't hurt neighbors or the public in any way. and that we don't have a substantial impairment to the zone plan or the master plan or the requirements that you provided for for this C4 uh special special commercial district. So the first one the this relief is specific to 2340 and 2440 route 130 proposed lots 9.01 and 9.02 no other property it only relates to this specific property. Granting relief here carries no precedent to any other site. So the fact that you granted a setback variance at 52 and a half feet or 20 feet on this site doesn't say that the next guy down the road has to you have to give them the same variance. Okay? And you everybody has to make their own case specifically. Um the second is uh that we advance some of the purposes of zoning. The purposes of zoning are set forth in municipal land use law. They're right in the front. There's about 14 of them now. Uh they keep adding them. Um, and they're why we zone. So, they're very specific and I I I sus I uh submit to you that we are advancing two of them specifically. Purpose G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of uses in accordance with their environmental requirements to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens. So, we have a site here that's uh that's six plus acres. We're dividing it into two. We're providing uh an existing storage building on one lot.

We're providing for two new buildings and parking on the other lot. We meet our coverage standards. We're improving impervious coverage. We have our building coverage. So, the amount of buildings we're allowed to put on as a percentage is much less than is provided for in the zone. So, we're doing less than is uh provided in the zone. So this site has sufficient space for what we want to do even though we need some dimensional relief because it represents a better plan. Okay. The second one is to en encourage the coordination of the various public and private procedures and activities shaping land development with the view towards lessening the cost of such development and to the more efficient use of the land. So this is this kind of has uh kind of three different um components to it. The first is we have a myriad of regulatory requirements that are imposed on us as a as an applicant. Uh in this instance, I'd submit to you the first and foremost that's the most important are your zoning ordinance requirements that require that building. Okay? and Bill did a great job of designing that building and giving you something that is um as high a quality as an industrial building as I think anyone that you're going to see uh either along 13 or one or throughout the state. Um next we also have to deal with the DOT and everything that John talked about in terms of traffic. We need to deal with NJD and storm water management and soil erosion and the county in terms of all of their requirements that Jim talks about. So, we have to fit all of these things together and have a site plan that comes out at the end that makes sense and is is logical and provides for um the uses that were proposed here. Um, so again, we have to coordinate all of these different things and I think we've done a great job of balancing all of those things. Most importantly, and as Dan said, and this

is no small feat, and it does relate to what's there today, but by having less impervious coverage by placing buildings with clean roofs instead of parking lots that are dirty in the stormwater world, uh, we're going to improve the water quality and improve the downstream condition that Mr. Lanson asked about over what's there today because we're improving the storm water through the things that he's doing. Um so again, you want to piece all those things together and and have a development that comes out efficiently. Um the in terms of the balancing test, the case flow there is called Poland B South Planefield and there you want to talk about that case talks about you want to balance all the benefits. So the benefits of getting a great building, the benefits of getting the uses that are provided for in the C4 district and getting the good landscaping, all those things, we believe all those benefits outweigh any potential detriment from what three setback variances in providing for a sixoot fence along coronary lane. Um, we think on par the overall development is better in this configuration than it would be if we had conforming setbacks and we're 75 feet back and and we didn't have any relation relationship to the street. I think by doing that we're really improving this uh what's really an important corner here here in this town. Um we also have more than sufficient parking uh that is provided for on the site. Um and I think we've done a good job there. Uh, and then we we're imp we're also implementing the Avigna statute and that's what it should be called because you were the first municipality to talk about electric fields charging stations. You were the first one that put it in an ordinance. All right. And now every single municipality in the state of New Jersey follows what you put forth first. And again, it should be called the VA statute. That that's an image of lions law. Um and we're

providing for those benefit for those benefits as well. Um in terms of our negative criteria, um we think that uh again it's two twopronged. First and foremost, we're not having any negative impact on our neighbors. Um so our lighting isn't going to go across the street and and impose on our residential neighbors across the street. They're going to look at a beautiful indust quote unquote industrial building that's across the street that's on par with any of your main main street buildings. And and that's really what happened here is you took your you took your main street architecture that has now been copied in 25 municipalities around the state as the standard for big box architecture and you've you've applied it to an industrial site. So again, you've really raised the bar in terms of all in terms of architectural standards uh really in terms of what's going to happen on Route 130. Um but this proposed development that's here um it's not going to have any negative impacts. We're going to reduce our drainage impact. We're not going to have lighting impacts. We're going to have sufficient landscaping um that's going to be there. We're not going to have any overflow parking. Um and we're going to have a beautiful building on Route 130. As far as your master plan and zoning ordinance, um fortunately or unfortunately, your 2018 master plan re-examination um spent six pages talking about this site. It was the entire document practically. Um but what it said is um we looked at it a bunch of different ways. We looked at it for six different things and your recommendation in your master plan was to do this. It was to provide for commercial development warehouse and storage uses with extremely high quality architecture. And that high quality architecture was your price of admission for big box warehouse. Now we're doing small box warehouse with lesser impacts with great architecture. So you're having your you're getting great impacts and great architecture.

That's a good thing. Um so again we are implementing what your master plan talked about and what your master reexamination talked about in 2018 in terms of high quality architecture with large format commercial establishments. Um and then finally uh in terms of the purpose of the uh C4 zone um the purpose of the zone is to provide for new commercial districts that allow for general commercial uses as well as large establishments. Um, however, retail establish large retail establishments typically have uninspiring design, no frill site plans, plain vanilla and standardized rectangular singlestory buildings, monolithic smooth surface block facads, minimal architectural standards, and few amenities. The township of North Brunswick will not permiss permit this standardized mediocrity. As such, the township is enacting form-based guidelines that will provide for integrating these large establishments better into the f fabric of the development and better into the surrounding community. Check. We're implementing the purpose of the zone. So, I believe

Excuse me, John. Thank you. I can't believe I wrote that 15 years ago. I can't believe I said it tonight. No. Um again you uh it's you know from a planning standpoint I recognize we have some relief but on par we have a great project. I think the design team has done a fabulous job fitting the site plan into this. I think Mr. Rosenberg has done a great job giving his design team the the tools to to do a great job here and uh I I believe you have the ability to make the findings that are necessary for the C1 and C2 variances. And I'm available for your questions. Okay, thank you. Very, very well put. Anybody have questions?

No. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Good job. Bat and cleanup. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I'm trying to preempt the issue of retail and I think I've come up with a solution.

Okay. We do not intend for this to be a retail shopping area. The issue is in the dream was contractor services as defined. I am going to recommend that any retail sales be limited to, subject to parking requirements, sales of services or products created by the tenant. Example, the uh shades or something. I don't bring them in and sell them from shelves. I make custom shades. Someone comes in, he will he or she will buy the shades. Technically, I don't want to be in violation. That is a retail sale. I haven't looked at the definition and Tom may recall it. I don't. Similarly, the custom bookcase. Similarly, the the plumbing and uh the air raator, the garbage disposal or any of those items, I can only sell on an occasional basis what I what services I provide as a contracting to me and of course I'm biased, but I want to make this work. That's fair and fundamental because to say no to that and say no retail, I don't think that's the intent and I don't want to bore you. But what the upholstery, I mean, my wife used to send me to Lewis Street in New Brunswick because there was some some young fellas who who upholstered or even my office. I'd take some chairs there and drop it off. Guy would upholster it. Three weeks later, he call. Right. I'd go back, pay him money, take the chair. That's a sale.

Right. Right. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to get in a big argument. No. I want this to work. And at prohibition, and I'll put on the record, it's not our intent to have a shopping center. It's a contractor services. But yeah, I I don't I don't doubt that you don't I mean, it clearly is not built to be a to be a retail establishment, but um

and by the way, the price I have to be careful because we haven't developed that. I don't think people in the retail business are going to want to be involved in a in this area where there's not going to be the identification of a on on shopping centers, right? But I don't want to limit it could have a material impact negative on the project.

Mr. Chairman, I was never suggesting that. What I was saying, what I was trying to establish is that because retail businesses are permitted in the zone that there was not going to be any retail businesses. The type of things you're talking about, I do not believe are considered retail businesses. There's a great upholstery shop in Freehold where you go and you pick out fabric and you drop off things. And by the way, we bought three stools there, but they don't people don't commit. It's not a retail operation. So, I was never suggesting that somebody could not sell something, but you that that you would not be able to have standard retail businesses as spelled out in our ordinance. You can't have the type of business that requires 200, you know, a parking space for every 200 square feet,

right? But having having said that, uh I mean they they have to get zoning approval for for their use when they go when they move in. Yeah. So, you know, our zoning officer would have to look at that and if he determined this was a if he determined it was a legitimately retail use, he could deny their their occupancy because on the parking he wouldn't be uh he No, he Well, they would have if it was that type of use, he would say they have to go to the zoning board. Well, yeah. Or they could get they could get a variance. Yeah. I mean, the point being there there's some form of control. Yeah.

Mr. Chairman, I don't know with respect to the board, I don't know how many times they've ever had to look at a tenency approval letter. Obviously, Tom and I have looked at them and staff and it asks you what is the business, how many employees you're going to have, hours and days of operation, talks about recycling, right? And it gives the detail. Yeah. Where the zoning officers say it's permitted in the zone, it's not permitted can reject or accept and put conditions. That's what we want. No, I and I agree. There's a mechanism there to control that. I I think there should be anyway. Um, okay. We understand each other. We're uh subject to questions. Uh, okay.

That's And just for the record on my application, we've made it in uh two hours. You can Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Does the board have any questions before we open it to the public? Okay. Nobody. Okay. Okay. Do we have a motion to open it to the public? So moved. Second. Second. Okay. Does anybody from the public wish to be heard on this application? Okay. A motion we close to the public. So moved. Second.

Okay. Um at this point I I would make make a suggestion that's we have a motion uh on this application. Well, do you guys do you guys want to make any closing comments or you you guys done? No, I said at the beginning, Tom, I I gave a an introduction. I got it. Okay. So, it's just win, lose, or draw. So, so can Pat, can I just suggest there have been a number of things suggested as conditions. Put the pressure on Lou. Could Lou mention the type of things we've discussed as conditions and then if somebody wanted to make a motion with those conditions.

Right. So we're we're talking about an application for preliminary and final site plan approval, dimensional variances and subdivision. We have normal conditions, garden variety conditions that I put in resolutions in terms of making your payments and don't change the plans, those kinds of things. With regard to this specific project, what I have is um no outside storage of materials for any tenant uh such as equipment or supplies, no hazardous materials on site, flammable, and that those will be put in in the lease. No auto repair retail. I'm going to punt on that for a second and we'll we we can talk about it. Um they in the applicant indicated there was going to be a stop sign at the intersection of the parking lots. I if that's on the plan if it's on the plans I don't think we need to make that a condition. It's a 247 operation. Two EV charging stations on site chain link fans.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Look, the plan showed that the spaces, EV charging spaces, were just going to have the conduit there, but the condition is that they're actually going to install the electric vehicle chargers. So, they're not just going to be made, the term is made ready. They're not going to be made ready spaces. They're going to be actual electric vehicle charging station. Yes. Ready to go. uh chainlink fence with the black slat, black metal slats in the areas. They'll not necessarily be black, but metal slats heard instead of fabric.

Um no tractor trailers. Um yeah, condition no tractor trailers entering the over over 30 foot. Did we we I don't think Did we establish the length of the vehicle that can get in there? I thought we did. SU30. Okay. Nothing bigger than SU30. Okay.

30. Um 247 operation. Put that in uh as a condition. Retail. What do we want to do with with retail? Retail is probably defined in our ordinance. I don't have the ordinance in front of me. Um, but I don't think we're talking about um if someone brings something for repair and and a merchant repairs it and you pay for it. I don't know if that's retail. I think I don't I don't think you would consider that general retail. I think we're talking about if you have a a thrift shop in there, right, where you sell bread.

Yeah. Something where the prim where the primary business is retail. No business whose primary business operation business is is retail sales. I think that's a good way to the thrift shop was the example I just gave. I hear that. I don't want I don't want to get pick. Well, I have to be picky. Let's assume he goes into the uh upholsterer. He has it fixed, but then he sees this nice stool that somebody left or that someone sold to the guy. You know, are you selling the stool? Says yes. Didn't Didn't I just say that I purchased three stools in freehold when I went to I don't.

So, we're not going to talk about this anymore. If you want to you want to argue this condition, I'm suggesting it should say some no business that where the primary mode of operation is retail sales. If that's okay, you don't have to say anything more. Key word being primary. Does he treat Does he do this for everyone? final. Yes. Directly to final concern just said yes. What did you say? Primary primary use. We'll work out the language. Got it. Okay. Yeah, you're right. So that that's what I have. And the storm water calculations to be approved.

Well, that they're going to comply with the comments in our reports are yeah memo. That's a given. the reports have to be complied with and the and just so you asked a question prior there there is a stop sign and a stop bar already on the plans for that side street so we don't have to we don't have to add that as a condition if it's on the plans already they're giving it to us you get the resolution so I think that covers it okay we good yeah okay so if I can have a motion uh to approve or deny I'm sorry the subdivision in there Yes. Okay. Subdivision. Subdivision.

Preliminary and final flight plan dimensional variance to subdivision. One of the conditions will be that the engineer and usually the board attorney and the board engineer review uh the deed the the descriptions and the deeds prior to recording. So that'll be in there as well. We do. Okay. Now we good. You okay? All right. I never take I never grasp from the jaws of victory defeat. Well, you're getting close. Uh if we could get a uh a motion to approve or deny like to make a motion that we approve ESH properties with all the conditions that we discussed.

Second. Anyone? Can I get a second? Second. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. Miss Larkin. Mr. Mr. Manson. Yes. Miss Hutchinson. Yes. Miss Melone. Yes. Mr. Rubenstein. Yes. Mr. Vna. Yes. Mr. Brooks. Yes. Miss Decandia. Yes. Mr. Manley. Yes. I think you're good. Thank you. It'll make you proud. No, that's very I I I must comment that's a very that's a great improvement on that piece of property because it's been an eyesore for a while. So yeah, it'll be great. It'll be great.

Thank you. Thank you. General comments from the public, Pat. Oh, yeah. Okay. Can we open a meeting to Excuse me. I was I get to use this. Did we Did we We need We need to open this to the public. Somebody make a motion. I make a motion we open it to the general public. Second. Okay. Anyone from the public need to be heard on any issue at all? You have any questions, guys? No. Well, it wasn't as exciting as I thought it was. Okay. Motion we close the meeting. So move. Close the public portion anyway. Okay. Motion we adjourn the meeting. So move. Second.

A second. Can we get a second? Okay. All right. We're good. Thanks. Good night.